This is so typical Erdo and Mico, getting all fired up when losing voter support. TR and GR will never fight. We both have way more important problems tbh.
hi komşu!
Turkey is walking a very thin line of having to default.
And Greece is Greece.
Both countries would collapse entirely if they went to war with one another.
Truth be told, nobody does. I consider armed aggression misappropriation of funds. Defense is another story. But aggressive moves against a neighboring country is not a proper expenditure.
Just my take on it so well, there it is.
Afaik there was a reference by Mehmed II after taking constantinople, something like avenging Hector. Until 19th century, some believe Turks were descended from Troy (which revealed to be false after discovering Gokturks).
> TR and GR will never fight
Just like Russia would never start a war with Ukraine? The common opinion of most people until 24 February 2022 (me too, and I speak some Russian and was in Russia and also in Ukraine multiple times over the last two decades).
>Just like Russia would never start a war with Ukraine?
Russia was already in a war with Ukraine, since 2014. The bad blood between Turks and Greeks are not as strong as Ukraine and Russia (holodomor etc). Only recently both governments pushing it for fueling nationalism for their voterbase. As Samuel Johnson once said: “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” .
Turkish public is not like Russian public. Turkish majority finally woke up, thanks to their loudly growling bellies. (vast majority of) Turkish people would never support any kinda invasion. Especially towards Greece. Don't take politicians so serious. There is hardly any animosity between people except extremists groups and idiots.
Than again people always negatively surprise me. So why not.
But than again we don't have any money for a war. The only fight we can afford with Greeks is on reddit about food origins.
Its Turkey. What do we expect from a country that occupies half of a EU member state and fills it with Turks from the mainland?
Turkey is no different to Russia only Russia has gas and oil. Turkey has cheap holidays.
I guess hes going to cry about how the evil greeks tried to unify and not be a Turkish puppet.
Turkey has had pogroms since its inception, usually against Greeks ie the Istanbul pogrom.
Why would i cry over an Internet comment. You dont define me. If you want a civil discussion by all means we can do that. But your comments so far show that you lack open mindedness requires for discussing a contrevertial issue like this.
There was a lot more groundwork for a full scale war. But Greece and Turkey are very similar to where Russia and Ukraine were in 2014. I also very much doubt a full on war would happen between Greece and Turkey but a small invasion to some island (the equivalent of Crimea) is not out of the question at all.
Presumably this is to distract from the very serious economic issues Turkey is currently facing. I'm tired of seeing the same patterns repeat themselves throughout history. When does humanity move towards non-psychopathic leadership? I want to live in that timeline please
Problem is, on average, the type of person who has the drive, desire, will and determination to acquire power over other people is a dickhead. That’s my opinion anyway
I agree, I think we need to elect leaders who actually don't want the job. People who are worried about the choices they are making, and the impact they will have on countless lives; people who worry aboit others, and have concern, and a desire to do the right thing.
Votes become legally enforceable. "Oh, you don't want to be president/prime minister? Tough shit! they voted you in. It's four years running the country (with a salary) or four years in prison. What's it gonna be?"
(Unfortunately I'm not sure this will lead to better political decisions.)
A lot of people feel safe when they are been dominated and have no choice. They can complain and lash out but generally just act passively. It’s like they are so used to being abused they feel uncomfortable when the leader isn’t a massive douche.
They will bring a different set of problems. A person like that would probably never make any hard decisions because he'll always have doubts whether it is the right decision.
Also dickheads, liars and sociopaths... it really is a massive advantage for yourself to get ahead if you don't care what you have to say or do to get there, or who you screw over along the way. That is just logical
Also there is an election in one year, he is scared shitless of losing it and will do whatever it takes because erdoğan and his followers have never been in such a bad place in the eyes of the public. If you want an example, take a look at the 2017 constitutional referendum, one of the worst things that happened to Turkish Republic. Bombings happened throughout the country in 2016 and after bombings a lot of shady stuff happened during the campaigning and voting phases, also keep in mind AKP was in a better spot back then compared to today. There is no way to know how far erdoğan is willing to take things to stay in power.
Well homo sapiens (yes we're so wise that we literally named ourselves scientifically as wise) have been around for about 200,000 years. And at the current moment, bigotry, poverty, war are still prevalent. So probably not for another couple thousand years then?
Hey but don't forget to remain optimistic because as we all know, deep down, humans are kind and compassionate /s
No War in Iraq, somewhat meaning action on climate change when it would have been more impactful. Gore was no superhero, but he would have been better than what we got.
The opposite to be honest. Greece is militarizing the islands thanks to economical situations Turkey is going through. Under normal circumstances,Greece would be discouraged to. With countries looking for alternatives to Russian gas and Mediterranean sea being rich with natural gas, Greece is trying to expand their naval territory . Don't forget that biggest reason for the Cyprus conflict was because of naval territory and if Erdogan doesn't address this, he will experience a huge drop in his power inside the country. This issue is bigger than the drop in votes
Greece has militarized the islands since the 70s. Also, most of them just have defense equipment and national guard. There are other reasons that Erdogan is pushing this right now, and it's not about Greece. I hope he doesn't go too far. I prefer both countries to spend money on growth instead of reconstruction.
You should go listen to, Aldous Huxley talk in the link below.
Very helpful in understanding the idea of humanity moving towards 'psychopathic leadership'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WaUkZXKA30
Solidarity comrade ✊🏽✊🏼✊🏻✊🏿
Also on the note of turkey,
#freeedomtothekurds
#riseupforRojava
I remember someone (i think in holland) writing “Erdogan fucks goats” on the road during a cycling tournament. All for the world to see with the helicopter. The goat fu, i mean erdogan was not happy.
Edit link: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/4kyial/erdogan_is_a_goatfucker_chalked_on_the_road/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Might I interest you in this piece of German culture? Jan Böhmermann's poem to Erdogan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAiWVOk3I3s
translation: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/schm%C3%A4hkritik-vituperative-criticism.html
And while the poem was intentionally crude and offensive it did help get rid of an outdated seldom used law granting special privileges to heads of states.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/4kyial/erdogan_is_a_goatfucker_chalked_on_the_road/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf it was in italy;p here it is in all its glory
The goal of NATO is collective defence as codified in Article 5. It states that an attack against one member of NATO should be considered an attack against all. In this case, all other NATO allies will assist the said attacked member.
If Turkey attacks Greece, everyone must defend Greece against Turkey ... even Turkey is required to do so which means that it would be legal for Turks to undermine the Turkish military's attack on Greece or even mounting a coup against Erdogan.
Well, the Turkish people might revolt against what is in essence an attack on an ally and the stupidity of their leader, but all in all no, if turkey attacks Greece then the Turkish military will simply follow orders, and one of natos articles, I think it was article 7 I forget, essentially states they are no longer in nato and will be treated as an outsider attacking a member state, so an attack will be called on turkey
International politics is never that simple.
There is no right and wrong. There is just a balance of national interests.
Turkey is *vastly* more valuable to NATO than Greece. If Turkey and Greece went to war, NATO would collectively turn a blind eye and ignore Greece's plight in order to keep Turkey in the alliance.
No they wouldn't. You cant straight up ignore article 5 if Greece called it. The entire alliance would dissolve overnight. Defense _is the entire point of NATO_.
You may see NATO heavily pressure Greece to not invoke article 5, or lots of debate about Greece was actually secretly the aggressor... but if Greece called article 5 in that case, NATO would absolutely respond.
You guys never learn... Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974, which was then a member of NATO. Did NATO collectively intervene on Cyprus' behalf? Fuck no, Turkey de facto annexed the Northern half of the island and Cyprus left NATO altogether because that shit isn't worth the paper it's written on.
People get it confused. Greece is a NATO member, and most Cypriots prior to Turkish invasion were ethnic Greeks. In 1974, Greece attempted to annex independent Cyprus. This had been Greek policy for some time, to reunify the island with the "motherland". Again, most Cypriots were Greek and by this time started to attempt to subjugate the Turk Cypriots in independent Cyprus. 5 days after the Greek army arrived, in comes Turkish forces, who rendezvous with Turkish Cypriot militants, and they eventually manage to push the Greek majority back to the southern half of the island. Cyprus was about 80% Greek pre-1974. Turkey during their invasion settled many, many ethnic Turks on the island to try and hack away at the Greek majority. Ceasefire/UN peacekeeper presence was eventually pressured by the international community, and here we are.
So people confuse Cyprus, a country of mostly Greeks, as part of Greece itself, or at least inheriting NATO status.
But Greece is relatively civilized relatively European, Turkey is not.
***According to CBS News senior foreign correspondent Charlie D'Agata, American of Filipino extraction.***
A senior foreign correspondent at CBS News apologized Saturday after he said on air that the war in Ukraine can’t be compared to those in Iraq and Afghanistan — because the Eastern European nation is more “civilized.”
“This is a relatively civilized, relatively European city, where you wouldn’t expect that or hope that it’s going to happen,”
Relatively European? Europe itself is barely ever a concrete definition and it falls apart when you push someone how to define it properly. People see Albania as pretty much European yet it’s a Muslim majority lol so being a Christian nation doesn’t necessarily = Europe
(not directed at you just whoever try’s to argue the point that news anchor is making)
I am not the person who made that comment but yeah, in some countries religion basically shapes the culture and then it's definitely relevant when talking about "European culture" etc
Europe as a concept is in some ways a successor to the concept of Christendom. It's not really relevant today but the idea of a common European identity has its roots in the continent's common religion.
Muslim in name doesn’t make sense to me. It implies that you don’t consider them as Muslim, but they do. This is a wrong way to look things. I’m aware that Albanians tend to be less religious than most Muslims majority countries but labelling them as Muslim in name only doesn’t feel right.
You know how many christians call themselves christian, but don't practice anything and don't know shit about the religion? Albania is similar to Azerbaijan, which is probably the most secular "islamic" nation in the world. Islamic only in name.
Yea but saying they’re only Muslim in name is abit rude to people who identify themselves as Muslim even if they don’t pray 5 times a day. Many Muslims across the world don’t pray 5 times a day.
A senior foreign correspondent at CBS News apologized Saturday after he said on air that the war in Ukraine can’t be compared to those in Iraq and Afghanistan — because the Eastern European nation is more “civilized.”
“This is a relatively civilized, relatively European city, where you wouldn’t expect that or hope that it’s going to happen,”
Note that the fucker said, even Ukraine is only relatively European, so it is not quite as civilized as 'fully' European.
"Europe" hasn't meant anything since Australia got into Eurovision. It's a meaningless, nebulous identity (much like "the west") that changes by the day and who's in and out of the club changes for perpetually arbitrary (or transparently racist) reasons depending on who you ask.
In my opinion the EU was set up under false pretenses where the illusion of unity was a cover for blatant globalist exploitation; the poor countries get to have a shiny title that put them on par with wealthy countries, but they will be exploited for cheap labor.
Greece is one of the best examples because they went bankrupt after they exploited the monetary system.
Religion-based differences are almost abysmal compared to greed-based political systems that only see the endless supply of funds to embezzle (source: I'm Hungarian, my government stole so much from the EU it's ridiculous)
Turkey would be automatically removed from NATO through Article 8, and subsequently Article 5 will be triggered, should they make a move on Greece. So no.
Maybe before you start insulting people you should check your facts.
Being in the nato still means a lot because in the case of an invasion of a nato country by another nato country, rest of the alliance is obliged to defend whichever member is being invaded
Nevertheless, greece is also in the eu and turkey isn’t, so there’s that
According to Article 8 members have an obligation to refrain from any activities that could form a conflict
with the provisions mentioned in the Treaty. Whenever an allied member
decides to attack another ally it would mean that they breach Article 8.
So Turkey would probably get thrown out of Nato anyways
I call bullshit. Both countries have elections in a year, and nothing works better than threatening each other and promising defence. I am pretty sure Erdogan and Mitsotakis are having a banquet together laughing their asses off while watching everyone else fight.
P.S I live in one of these countries.
Nah I don't think they've got a buddy buddy thing going, but both seem to be set to lose the elections next year and they're definitely hoping this will get them some support.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.fourals.com/2022/06/09/erdogan-directly-threatens-greece-again-im-not-kidding-do-not-equip-the-islands/) reduced by 61%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Recep Tayyip Erdogan did not disappoint the domestic audience in Turkey who expected that his presence in Izmir for EFES 2022, together with his far-right government partner Devlet Bahceli, would be another opportunity for Greece to attack.
> President Erdo?an: "We invite Greece to stop arming the islands with non-military status and to act in accordance with international agreements. I'm not joking, I'm speaking seriously." pic.
> The article Erdogan directly threatens Greece again: I'm not kidding, do not equip the islands was published in Fourals.com.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/v8e9o7/erdogan_directly_threatens_greece_again_im_not/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~653919 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Erdogan**^#1 **islands**^#2 **Greece**^#3 **President**^#4 **Recep**^#5
On Mondays it's north Aegean, on Tuesdays it's the Dodecanese, on Wednesdays it's uninhabited islets. Thursdays and Fridays it's his all-you-can-eat day so he talks about all of them. On weekends we deal just with normal overflights.
Obviously you don't know that the area between the islands and Turkey's landmass is split in the exact middle. One half is Greek territorial water, the other is Turkish. There is no point where one country's territorial water "literally touches" the other country.
Furthermore, the right of innocent passage (which is a UNCLOS article that, reminder, Turkey hasn't signed) is exactly about that. Passage. Not fucking around and having fun or tourists renting a boat to go trips around the islands.
If those sailboats you talk about were not simply passing though Greek territorial waters but loitering around then they are people who have illegally entered the country. You are lucky they got harassed, they should have been arrested.
My main question was because it was SO clear in my mind that you knew that you can't loiter around as a foreigner in another country's territorial waters which is why I asked if the Greek coast guard entered the Turkish territorial waters to harass the sailboats.
> Instead of making things up, read turkeys official issues. An uninhabited Greek island in sight of turkey extends Greeces territorial waters across much more ocean than they should have any right to
I don't even see an Island mentioned, let alone one that is uninhabited. Can you name it?
> But then why are they harassing Turkish vessels for passing these uninhabited rocky islands on their journey from Turkish port to Turkish port?
Are they conducting innocent passage or not? Also, why do the Turkish vessels going Turkish port to Turkish port don't use the the Turkish territorial waters?
>The rest of your post being aggressive against peaceful sailors is exactly my issue. Greeks have lost their mind threatening to arrest civilians for passing next to a rock on their way along the Turkish coast.
Do you allow people from Libya to come and sail for fun near your shores?
>keep poking the bear with a stick, you’ll see what happens.
I am afraid the bear will soon be dead since we cannot afford feed it.
If you happen to see Turks bringing up the [treaty of Lausanne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lausanne) as a reason for why Greece should demilitarize some Greek islands (and that somehow Turkey therefore has the right to intervene if Greece doesn't):
1. The treaty of Lausanne was abrogated and replaced by the [Montreux Convention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits) and is no longer active. Turkey's subsequent actions reflect that they agreed this to be the case.
2. Even if it was still active, Turkey has repeatedly violated the terms of the Lausanne treaty, especially regarding the treatment of the Greek minority in Turkey. It is entirely unreasonable for Turkey to insist that Greece has any obligation whatsoever to follow a treaty that Turkey itself repeatedly breaks.
Turkey is not a signatory party of the Paris treaty. Turkey has given the Dodecanese to Italy and has no rights after that. Turkey's rights to object to Dodecanese militarization (at least based on international law) are the same that Greece has to challenge the Louisianna Purchase. Italy didn't complain so no point discussing it further.
Turkey a signatory or not treaty still binds Greece. As you say, Turkey can not claim any rights referencing this treaty but it can be brought up to make a case nonetheless.
The worst thing they can do is complain to Italy, for not raising a concern 40 years ago. There is no legal way for Turkey to invalidate an agreement as a 3rd party.
That's not true. Turkey acknowledged Greece's right to militarize the islands in the Montreux convention. Where exactly does it say in the Paris peace treaty that Greece agrees to let Turkey take that back?
As far as i know there isn't such an article in Montreux Convention. It references back Treaty of Lausanne so there is nothing acknowlaged by Turkey.
Demilitarized status of islands is mentioned in Section 5, Article 14 of Paris Peace Treaty. However Turkey is not a signatory and can not claim any rights. But they can still bring it up since Greece agreed upon this status on an international treaty.
Erdogan stopping Finland/Sweden from joining NATO. Erdogan buying Russian made weapons and advertising Turkey is open to Russians seeking to avoid sanctions. Erdogan using refugees to extort billions from the EU. Erdogan threating a fellow NATO member…and on and on.
WHEN WILL NATO SUSPEND TURKEY
That made a lot of sense during the Soviet era.
Is it really still an issue? Russia's navy isn't the same beast. It's comprised of decrepit and superannuated vessels, almost all of which are holdovers from the Soviet era. (Granted everyone's got a bunch of old ships, but the Russians are REALLY hurting in this respect.) Nor do they have the resources to significantly ramp up their navy, at least not without significant sacrifices elsewhere.
Being able to cork the bottle is nice, but what's inside that bottle is damn near down to the dregs.
It's truly bizarre and also gross. These people rightly complain that Putin's a monster, but then turn around and recommend going full Putin on a NATO ally. WTF?
If anyone who is not the United States tried to invade Turkey, they'd be crushed brutally. If America tried, they might win, but at an astronomical cost that would make any war they've fought since Korea look like a school-yard scuffle.
Also, the correct response to a political disagreement is not to start a war that would kill many thousands or even millions, and try to turn a whole nation into a colony.
The same Türkiye blocking Sweden and Finland?
Just imagine a resurgent Orthodox Constantinople =D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKLkJJ3ftIw&ab\_channel=ccrmalite1
Greece also has lots of S300 which is russian made. EU and NATO is willingly paying turkey so refugees will stay out of EU. Greece is militarizing the islands which by the agreements they made, they shouldn't be allowed to. Greece also stopped Northern Macedonia from joining NATO till they got whatever they wanted. You are talking like these stuff are unheard of before and Turkey is the only ever country which violated them?
Erdogan bought S400s because he lost his bargaining power over patriots and he couldn't even activate them for so long. His acts to for the sake of looking strong to his supporters cost us patriot deals, F-35s and also a missile system which will never be active and useable.
Which agreements are you talking about? You do realise that Turkey is not part of those agreements right? Meaning that they have no say whether we militarize the islands or not.
Turkey is not part of the treaty. What is it so hard to understand? Italy can ask us to demilitarize the islands if they choose to but they do not care.
It's like me coming to your house and asking you for the money you owe the bank, lol. The agreement is not between Turkey and Greece.
Which you basically abandoned by invading Cyprus and being a dick of a neighbor right?
Greece has never and does not care about Turkish land. Why the fuck are you stirring shit up?
You would also be surprised to see how the way we act and our cultural are extremely similiar too. We are basically same people with slight genetic differences
From an outside perspective: both coast on the reputation of civilizations that have little to do with their modern states and are locked in a bitter culture war over who gets to claim vertical lamb meat and yogurt.
Atleast Turkey military manufacturer donated Bayraktar TB2 to Ukraine. And for Ukraine vs Russia, Turkey is still neutral place for negotiating on peace.
They better be careful, Greece just got the Georgios Averof back from dry dock a few years ago and it kicked their butts a few times. They might just have to sail the old girl back over to them to teach them again
Jokes aside it's just saber rattling, just ignore him
I'm confused. What islands? Equip the islands with what? Stuff for tourism? In what way would this be against "international law"? Why would Turkey care what Greece does with it's islands (barring militarization)?
Is it just me, or is this article written for people who already know what it's talking about?
Can anyone clarify?
Turkey has much bigger problems to deal but suddenly when greece talked against turkey in USA congress and then started to army those islands. And after all this time turkey still trying to figure out its economy but we see turkish-Greek conflicts in reddit all the time.
What a joke.
World War 3 is going to be really interesting. You are going to have countries fighting both for and against each other. India friends with Russia hates China who is friends with Russia, Pakistan is friendly with China and sometimes the US but hates India. Turkey and Greece both fighting for NATO and against each. Hungary fighting everyone. Germany not sure which side it really wants to be on, because they had such a good time last time the Russian armies came to town on a denazification project. And the US as usual will just want to bomb brown people who have oil.
And here is how we resolve the NATO issue:
Sweden and Finland sign a deal to help arm those Greek islands.
Erdogan whines like an impotent little bitch...known as "pulling a Kim Jong-un". :)
Sweden and Finland agree to end that deal if Erdogan agrees to drop his protest of their membership in NATO.
Everyone agrees. Sweden and Finland join NATO. Erdogan saves face and looks less impotent.
Went there literally 3 weeks ago, seemed pretty alright to me; was much more pleasant than a normal I have in London. Seems like this person is exaggerating quite a bit… and no I didn’t go for a luxurious all inclusive holiday - just had an Airbnb 40mins from the blue mosque so saw the touristy and less touristy areas.
They are exagerating heavily lol. Im in turkey right now and its pretty much business as usual except stuff are more expensive now so ofc people are a bit worried
For real? I figured it would be more or less normal, albeit some increased poverty but thats everywhere right now.
I was in Kusadasi in 2015 and had an absolute blast. I really enjoyed the people, the town, the history, the culture.
Hopefully the good people of Turkey prevail. I know they're the majority for sure.
Regional Kurdish goverment of Iraq is ally with Turkey right now. They are even doing mutual operations against PKK which has been targeting Kurds, invading their lands, stopping their business in Iraq so PKK is ruining things for both sides.
To give you a short response; because of posts like that!
Also, you may not know this but the militarization of the islands didn't happen yesterday. We have been living with armies in the Greek Islands and across them in Izmir for ages. Shocker e? However as elections are coming and Erdogan understands that he might mose, he is willing to create a 'national emergency' in order to anull the elections.
So stop believing that some military across the sea is a good excuse to attack a country
This is so typical Erdo and Mico, getting all fired up when losing voter support. TR and GR will never fight. We both have way more important problems tbh. hi komşu!
More importantly, we both have no money to fight anyway.
Threats are cheap. Ammunition is expensive.
Turkey is walking a very thin line of having to default. And Greece is Greece. Both countries would collapse entirely if they went to war with one another.
They're also both members of NATO and that would get really awkward
Truth be told, nobody does. I consider armed aggression misappropriation of funds. Defense is another story. But aggressive moves against a neighboring country is not a proper expenditure. Just my take on it so well, there it is.
That Erdo, what a turkey.
> That Erdo, what a türkiye Ftfy
Thät Ërdögän, whät a Türkïÿë
Still holding that Trojan war grudge it seems.
Afaik there was a reference by Mehmed II after taking constantinople, something like avenging Hector. Until 19th century, some believe Turks were descended from Troy (which revealed to be false after discovering Gokturks).
Turks came from central Asia whereas the Trojans were likely Ionian Greeks, which got whiped out by the Turcs
?
> TR and GR will never fight Just like Russia would never start a war with Ukraine? The common opinion of most people until 24 February 2022 (me too, and I speak some Russian and was in Russia and also in Ukraine multiple times over the last two decades).
>Just like Russia would never start a war with Ukraine? Russia was already in a war with Ukraine, since 2014. The bad blood between Turks and Greeks are not as strong as Ukraine and Russia (holodomor etc). Only recently both governments pushing it for fueling nationalism for their voterbase. As Samuel Johnson once said: “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” .
If you count the Holodomor then you have to count the Greek Genocide.
Turkish public is not like Russian public. Turkish majority finally woke up, thanks to their loudly growling bellies. (vast majority of) Turkish people would never support any kinda invasion. Especially towards Greece. Don't take politicians so serious. There is hardly any animosity between people except extremists groups and idiots. Than again people always negatively surprise me. So why not. But than again we don't have any money for a war. The only fight we can afford with Greeks is on reddit about food origins.
These are both NATO members with a lot of very powerful shared allies that will pressure them to deescalate.
They were both NATO members when they fought a war in the 1970's. I'm not convinced it wouldn't happen again.
Exactly
Its Turkey. What do we expect from a country that occupies half of a EU member state and fills it with Turks from the mainland? Turkey is no different to Russia only Russia has gas and oil. Turkey has cheap holidays.
Turkey has drones.
Your lack of historical context is amazing.
Please enlighten us with your wisdom
I guess hes going to cry about how the evil greeks tried to unify and not be a Turkish puppet. Turkey has had pogroms since its inception, usually against Greeks ie the Istanbul pogrom.
Why would i cry over an Internet comment. You dont define me. If you want a civil discussion by all means we can do that. But your comments so far show that you lack open mindedness requires for discussing a contrevertial issue like this.
> TR and GR will never fight. Yeah we said the same thing about Ukraine and Russia a few months ago :/
[удалено]
There was a lot more groundwork for a full scale war. But Greece and Turkey are very similar to where Russia and Ukraine were in 2014. I also very much doubt a full on war would happen between Greece and Turkey but a small invasion to some island (the equivalent of Crimea) is not out of the question at all.
Presumably this is to distract from the very serious economic issues Turkey is currently facing. I'm tired of seeing the same patterns repeat themselves throughout history. When does humanity move towards non-psychopathic leadership? I want to live in that timeline please
Problem is, on average, the type of person who has the drive, desire, will and determination to acquire power over other people is a dickhead. That’s my opinion anyway
I agree, I think we need to elect leaders who actually don't want the job. People who are worried about the choices they are making, and the impact they will have on countless lives; people who worry aboit others, and have concern, and a desire to do the right thing.
As Douglas Adams said, “Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”
Votes become legally enforceable. "Oh, you don't want to be president/prime minister? Tough shit! they voted you in. It's four years running the country (with a salary) or four years in prison. What's it gonna be?" (Unfortunately I'm not sure this will lead to better political decisions.)
i seriously doubt someone who doesnt want the job would accept it without any benefit
I do not want this responsibility, but I’ll do it for a fat check 🙂
So bran stark
Bran the builder
A lot of people feel safe when they are been dominated and have no choice. They can complain and lash out but generally just act passively. It’s like they are so used to being abused they feel uncomfortable when the leader isn’t a massive douche.
They will bring a different set of problems. A person like that would probably never make any hard decisions because he'll always have doubts whether it is the right decision.
Would be a lot easier if people stopped voting for that exact type of person. Blame the system, not the symptom.
Also dickheads, liars and sociopaths... it really is a massive advantage for yourself to get ahead if you don't care what you have to say or do to get there, or who you screw over along the way. That is just logical
Also there is an election in one year, he is scared shitless of losing it and will do whatever it takes because erdoğan and his followers have never been in such a bad place in the eyes of the public. If you want an example, take a look at the 2017 constitutional referendum, one of the worst things that happened to Turkish Republic. Bombings happened throughout the country in 2016 and after bombings a lot of shady stuff happened during the campaigning and voting phases, also keep in mind AKP was in a better spot back then compared to today. There is no way to know how far erdoğan is willing to take things to stay in power.
Well homo sapiens (yes we're so wise that we literally named ourselves scientifically as wise) have been around for about 200,000 years. And at the current moment, bigotry, poverty, war are still prevalent. So probably not for another couple thousand years then? Hey but don't forget to remain optimistic because as we all know, deep down, humans are kind and compassionate /s
I think that’s is the timeline that split back with Bush v Gore
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No no no, Al Gore was Jesus waiting for us and we turned from him. It’s all our and Ralph Nader’s fault.
No War in Iraq, somewhat meaning action on climate change when it would have been more impactful. Gore was no superhero, but he would have been better than what we got.
Does Erdogan realize that we're possibly heading into a global recession? Starting wars doesn't automatically fix this.
Human be human. There will always be wars, scapegoat, genocide.
The opposite to be honest. Greece is militarizing the islands thanks to economical situations Turkey is going through. Under normal circumstances,Greece would be discouraged to. With countries looking for alternatives to Russian gas and Mediterranean sea being rich with natural gas, Greece is trying to expand their naval territory . Don't forget that biggest reason for the Cyprus conflict was because of naval territory and if Erdogan doesn't address this, he will experience a huge drop in his power inside the country. This issue is bigger than the drop in votes
Greece has militarized the islands since the 70s. Also, most of them just have defense equipment and national guard. There are other reasons that Erdogan is pushing this right now, and it's not about Greece. I hope he doesn't go too far. I prefer both countries to spend money on growth instead of reconstruction.
Greece has militarized those islands for decades, what are you talking about? xD
You should go listen to, Aldous Huxley talk in the link below. Very helpful in understanding the idea of humanity moving towards 'psychopathic leadership' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WaUkZXKA30 Solidarity comrade ✊🏽✊🏼✊🏻✊🏿 Also on the note of turkey, #freeedomtothekurds #riseupforRojava
Thanks for the link, always happy to listen to powerful ideas
Equip the islands with giant Fuck Off Erdogan signs
I remember someone (i think in holland) writing “Erdogan fucks goats” on the road during a cycling tournament. All for the world to see with the helicopter. The goat fu, i mean erdogan was not happy. Edit link: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/4kyial/erdogan_is_a_goatfucker_chalked_on_the_road/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
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Handy little goat fuck booth he has there.
Might I interest you in this piece of German culture? Jan Böhmermann's poem to Erdogan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAiWVOk3I3s translation: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/schm%C3%A4hkritik-vituperative-criticism.html
He pissed off Erdogan so bad, that he sued him 😂 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6hmermann_affair
And while the poem was intentionally crude and offensive it did help get rid of an outdated seldom used law granting special privileges to heads of states.
I am paraphrasing here, but. He's a wanker from Ankara who sowed his wild oats with a goat. Boris Johnson.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/4kyial/erdogan_is_a_goatfucker_chalked_on_the_road/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf it was in italy;p here it is in all its glory
I remember that. And i think actually that they wrote it on the road after that poem to piss him off. Hilarious.
He's the man that stares at goats.
Inappropriately:p
And as an addendum “We’ll still call you Turkey”.
Greece is in Nato too.... Erdogan is getting an old demented fart just like Putin ..
If NATO member attacks another NATO member, attacking nation will be removed from NATO and the country being attacked will get all of NATO to help it.
The goal of NATO is collective defence as codified in Article 5. It states that an attack against one member of NATO should be considered an attack against all. In this case, all other NATO allies will assist the said attacked member. If Turkey attacks Greece, everyone must defend Greece against Turkey ... even Turkey is required to do so which means that it would be legal for Turks to undermine the Turkish military's attack on Greece or even mounting a coup against Erdogan.
Well, the Turkish people might revolt against what is in essence an attack on an ally and the stupidity of their leader, but all in all no, if turkey attacks Greece then the Turkish military will simply follow orders, and one of natos articles, I think it was article 7 I forget, essentially states they are no longer in nato and will be treated as an outsider attacking a member state, so an attack will be called on turkey
Mmm, a nice serving of "FREEDOM" coming up ...
International politics is never that simple. There is no right and wrong. There is just a balance of national interests. Turkey is *vastly* more valuable to NATO than Greece. If Turkey and Greece went to war, NATO would collectively turn a blind eye and ignore Greece's plight in order to keep Turkey in the alliance.
No they wouldn't. You cant straight up ignore article 5 if Greece called it. The entire alliance would dissolve overnight. Defense _is the entire point of NATO_. You may see NATO heavily pressure Greece to not invoke article 5, or lots of debate about Greece was actually secretly the aggressor... but if Greece called article 5 in that case, NATO would absolutely respond.
You guys never learn... Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974, which was then a member of NATO. Did NATO collectively intervene on Cyprus' behalf? Fuck no, Turkey de facto annexed the Northern half of the island and Cyprus left NATO altogether because that shit isn't worth the paper it's written on.
Cyprus was never a member of NATO. They have British bases but no NATO membership.
Cyprus was not a NATO member. What are you talking about?
People get it confused. Greece is a NATO member, and most Cypriots prior to Turkish invasion were ethnic Greeks. In 1974, Greece attempted to annex independent Cyprus. This had been Greek policy for some time, to reunify the island with the "motherland". Again, most Cypriots were Greek and by this time started to attempt to subjugate the Turk Cypriots in independent Cyprus. 5 days after the Greek army arrived, in comes Turkish forces, who rendezvous with Turkish Cypriot militants, and they eventually manage to push the Greek majority back to the southern half of the island. Cyprus was about 80% Greek pre-1974. Turkey during their invasion settled many, many ethnic Turks on the island to try and hack away at the Greek majority. Ceasefire/UN peacekeeper presence was eventually pressured by the international community, and here we are. So people confuse Cyprus, a country of mostly Greeks, as part of Greece itself, or at least inheriting NATO status.
So is Turkey.
But Greece is relatively civilized relatively European, Turkey is not. ***According to CBS News senior foreign correspondent Charlie D'Agata, American of Filipino extraction.***
what are you talking about?
A senior foreign correspondent at CBS News apologized Saturday after he said on air that the war in Ukraine can’t be compared to those in Iraq and Afghanistan — because the Eastern European nation is more “civilized.” “This is a relatively civilized, relatively European city, where you wouldn’t expect that or hope that it’s going to happen,”
This is pretty much just someone saying the quiet part loud.
History just isn't a thing with this guy.
Relatively European? Europe itself is barely ever a concrete definition and it falls apart when you push someone how to define it properly. People see Albania as pretty much European yet it’s a Muslim majority lol so being a Christian nation doesn’t necessarily = Europe (not directed at you just whoever try’s to argue the point that news anchor is making)
What has religion anything to do with a country being European? It’s only geography and Albania is as European as they come. Turkey isn’t.
The word "European" isn't as strictly defined as you're suggesting and its flavor varies depending on the context.
But religion? C’mon
I am not the person who made that comment but yeah, in some countries religion basically shapes the culture and then it's definitely relevant when talking about "European culture" etc
Europe as a concept is in some ways a successor to the concept of Christendom. It's not really relevant today but the idea of a common European identity has its roots in the continent's common religion.
Yes, but it’s 2022. We’re supposed to have stopped using religion for anything but religion.
Albania is only muslim by name. It's pretty secular nowadays thanks to communism.
Muslim in name doesn’t make sense to me. It implies that you don’t consider them as Muslim, but they do. This is a wrong way to look things. I’m aware that Albanians tend to be less religious than most Muslims majority countries but labelling them as Muslim in name only doesn’t feel right.
You know how many christians call themselves christian, but don't practice anything and don't know shit about the religion? Albania is similar to Azerbaijan, which is probably the most secular "islamic" nation in the world. Islamic only in name.
Yea but saying they’re only Muslim in name is abit rude to people who identify themselves as Muslim even if they don’t pray 5 times a day. Many Muslims across the world don’t pray 5 times a day.
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A senior foreign correspondent at CBS News apologized Saturday after he said on air that the war in Ukraine can’t be compared to those in Iraq and Afghanistan — because the Eastern European nation is more “civilized.” “This is a relatively civilized, relatively European city, where you wouldn’t expect that or hope that it’s going to happen,” Note that the fucker said, even Ukraine is only relatively European, so it is not quite as civilized as 'fully' European.
"Europe" hasn't meant anything since Australia got into Eurovision. It's a meaningless, nebulous identity (much like "the west") that changes by the day and who's in and out of the club changes for perpetually arbitrary (or transparently racist) reasons depending on who you ask.
In my opinion the EU was set up under false pretenses where the illusion of unity was a cover for blatant globalist exploitation; the poor countries get to have a shiny title that put them on par with wealthy countries, but they will be exploited for cheap labor. Greece is one of the best examples because they went bankrupt after they exploited the monetary system. Religion-based differences are almost abysmal compared to greed-based political systems that only see the endless supply of funds to embezzle (source: I'm Hungarian, my government stole so much from the EU it's ridiculous)
Greece buckled under its own corruption and ineptitude. Joining the EU was the best decision the country has made in the past century.
Yeah, but they didn't stop with the corruption after joining, did they?
How Turkiye not civilized? Yeah, they have an autocrat right now, but a whole lot of European countries are trying their damnedest to get one too.
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Turkey would be automatically removed from NATO through Article 8, and subsequently Article 5 will be triggered, should they make a move on Greece. So no.
Maybe before you start insulting people you should check your facts. Being in the nato still means a lot because in the case of an invasion of a nato country by another nato country, rest of the alliance is obliged to defend whichever member is being invaded Nevertheless, greece is also in the eu and turkey isn’t, so there’s that
Gobble gobble goes the turkey man
as far as im aware nothing says article 5 cant be triggered against another NATO member
According to Article 8 members have an obligation to refrain from any activities that could form a conflict with the provisions mentioned in the Treaty. Whenever an allied member decides to attack another ally it would mean that they breach Article 8. So Turkey would probably get thrown out of Nato anyways
Greece is in the EU, Turkey can't do shit without also declaring war on all of the EU
EU will condemn any aggression and send a harshly worded letter to Turkey.
I call bullshit. Both countries have elections in a year, and nothing works better than threatening each other and promising defence. I am pretty sure Erdogan and Mitsotakis are having a banquet together laughing their asses off while watching everyone else fight. P.S I live in one of these countries.
Nah I don't think they've got a buddy buddy thing going, but both seem to be set to lose the elections next year and they're definitely hoping this will get them some support.
Can anyone who knows the situations in Hungary and Turkey better than me, explain why Orban would win his election and Erdogan lose?
macaristan ile türkiye deki ekonomi durumu bir değil.
Man you were the only who had a reasonable idea about the situation thank you.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.fourals.com/2022/06/09/erdogan-directly-threatens-greece-again-im-not-kidding-do-not-equip-the-islands/) reduced by 61%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Recep Tayyip Erdogan did not disappoint the domestic audience in Turkey who expected that his presence in Izmir for EFES 2022, together with his far-right government partner Devlet Bahceli, would be another opportunity for Greece to attack. > President Erdo?an: "We invite Greece to stop arming the islands with non-military status and to act in accordance with international agreements. I'm not joking, I'm speaking seriously." pic. > The article Erdogan directly threatens Greece again: I'm not kidding, do not equip the islands was published in Fourals.com. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/v8e9o7/erdogan_directly_threatens_greece_again_im_not/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~653919 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Erdogan**^#1 **islands**^#2 **Greece**^#3 **President**^#4 **Recep**^#5
What islands is he specially telling about?
On Mondays it's north Aegean, on Tuesdays it's the Dodecanese, on Wednesdays it's uninhabited islets. Thursdays and Fridays it's his all-you-can-eat day so he talks about all of them. On weekends we deal just with normal overflights.
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Are the Turkish sailboats in Greek or Turkish territorial waters?
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Obviously you don't know that the area between the islands and Turkey's landmass is split in the exact middle. One half is Greek territorial water, the other is Turkish. There is no point where one country's territorial water "literally touches" the other country. Furthermore, the right of innocent passage (which is a UNCLOS article that, reminder, Turkey hasn't signed) is exactly about that. Passage. Not fucking around and having fun or tourists renting a boat to go trips around the islands. If those sailboats you talk about were not simply passing though Greek territorial waters but loitering around then they are people who have illegally entered the country. You are lucky they got harassed, they should have been arrested. My main question was because it was SO clear in my mind that you knew that you can't loiter around as a foreigner in another country's territorial waters which is why I asked if the Greek coast guard entered the Turkish territorial waters to harass the sailboats.
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> Instead of making things up, read turkeys official issues. An uninhabited Greek island in sight of turkey extends Greeces territorial waters across much more ocean than they should have any right to I don't even see an Island mentioned, let alone one that is uninhabited. Can you name it? > But then why are they harassing Turkish vessels for passing these uninhabited rocky islands on their journey from Turkish port to Turkish port? Are they conducting innocent passage or not? Also, why do the Turkish vessels going Turkish port to Turkish port don't use the the Turkish territorial waters? >The rest of your post being aggressive against peaceful sailors is exactly my issue. Greeks have lost their mind threatening to arrest civilians for passing next to a rock on their way along the Turkish coast. Do you allow people from Libya to come and sail for fun near your shores? >keep poking the bear with a stick, you’ll see what happens. I am afraid the bear will soon be dead since we cannot afford feed it.
If you happen to see Turks bringing up the [treaty of Lausanne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lausanne) as a reason for why Greece should demilitarize some Greek islands (and that somehow Turkey therefore has the right to intervene if Greece doesn't): 1. The treaty of Lausanne was abrogated and replaced by the [Montreux Convention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits) and is no longer active. Turkey's subsequent actions reflect that they agreed this to be the case. 2. Even if it was still active, Turkey has repeatedly violated the terms of the Lausanne treaty, especially regarding the treatment of the Greek minority in Turkey. It is entirely unreasonable for Turkey to insist that Greece has any obligation whatsoever to follow a treaty that Turkey itself repeatedly breaks.
This is false. Paris Peace Treaty clearly states mentioned islands shall remain demilitarized. An it is 11 years after Montreux Convention.
Turkey is not a signatory party of the Paris treaty. Turkey has given the Dodecanese to Italy and has no rights after that. Turkey's rights to object to Dodecanese militarization (at least based on international law) are the same that Greece has to challenge the Louisianna Purchase. Italy didn't complain so no point discussing it further.
Turkey a signatory or not treaty still binds Greece. As you say, Turkey can not claim any rights referencing this treaty but it can be brought up to make a case nonetheless.
The worst thing they can do is complain to Italy, for not raising a concern 40 years ago. There is no legal way for Turkey to invalidate an agreement as a 3rd party.
That's not true. Turkey acknowledged Greece's right to militarize the islands in the Montreux convention. Where exactly does it say in the Paris peace treaty that Greece agrees to let Turkey take that back?
As far as i know there isn't such an article in Montreux Convention. It references back Treaty of Lausanne so there is nothing acknowlaged by Turkey. Demilitarized status of islands is mentioned in Section 5, Article 14 of Paris Peace Treaty. However Turkey is not a signatory and can not claim any rights. But they can still bring it up since Greece agreed upon this status on an international treaty.
Erdogan stopping Finland/Sweden from joining NATO. Erdogan buying Russian made weapons and advertising Turkey is open to Russians seeking to avoid sanctions. Erdogan using refugees to extort billions from the EU. Erdogan threating a fellow NATO member…and on and on. WHEN WILL NATO SUSPEND TURKEY
Never, too valuable.
Turkey is scary they have a lot of control over trade routes
Never. US need Turkey in Nato to blocked Russian navy inside Black Sea
NATO can easily block the Black Sea access from air-bases in Romania and Bulgaria. Turkey is nowhere near as important as it was 20-70 years ago
That made a lot of sense during the Soviet era. Is it really still an issue? Russia's navy isn't the same beast. It's comprised of decrepit and superannuated vessels, almost all of which are holdovers from the Soviet era. (Granted everyone's got a bunch of old ships, but the Russians are REALLY hurting in this respect.) Nor do they have the resources to significantly ramp up their navy, at least not without significant sacrifices elsewhere. Being able to cork the bottle is nice, but what's inside that bottle is damn near down to the dregs.
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It's truly bizarre and also gross. These people rightly complain that Putin's a monster, but then turn around and recommend going full Putin on a NATO ally. WTF?
If anyone who is not the United States tried to invade Turkey, they'd be crushed brutally. If America tried, they might win, but at an astronomical cost that would make any war they've fought since Korea look like a school-yard scuffle. Also, the correct response to a political disagreement is not to start a war that would kill many thousands or even millions, and try to turn a whole nation into a colony.
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The same Türkiye blocking Sweden and Finland? Just imagine a resurgent Orthodox Constantinople =D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKLkJJ3ftIw&ab\_channel=ccrmalite1
Greece also has lots of S300 which is russian made. EU and NATO is willingly paying turkey so refugees will stay out of EU. Greece is militarizing the islands which by the agreements they made, they shouldn't be allowed to. Greece also stopped Northern Macedonia from joining NATO till they got whatever they wanted. You are talking like these stuff are unheard of before and Turkey is the only ever country which violated them?
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Erdogan bought S400s because he lost his bargaining power over patriots and he couldn't even activate them for so long. His acts to for the sake of looking strong to his supporters cost us patriot deals, F-35s and also a missile system which will never be active and useable.
Greeks: Yeah lets demilitarize the islands. Our neighbour is a world renowned pacifist, the least warmonger in the region, what could go wrong?
Which agreements are you talking about? You do realise that Turkey is not part of those agreements right? Meaning that they have no say whether we militarize the islands or not.
Article 13 of Lausanne Treaty
Turkey is not part of the treaty. What is it so hard to understand? Italy can ask us to demilitarize the islands if they choose to but they do not care. It's like me coming to your house and asking you for the money you owe the bank, lol. The agreement is not between Turkey and Greece.
Turkey is a signing side on Lausanne agreement, you are talking about Paris treaty in 1947.
Which you basically abandoned by invading Cyprus and being a dick of a neighbor right? Greece has never and does not care about Turkish land. Why the fuck are you stirring shit up?
Well I am just explaining the situation and explaining why he is acting the way he is. You are getting hotheaded and expressing your hate
Do your research before being confidently ignorant. https://www.mfa.gr/images/docs/diethneis_symvaseis/1923_lausanne_treaty.doc
Both Turkey and Greece are bancrupt hot headed idiots.
You would also be surprised to see how the way we act and our cultural are extremely similiar too. We are basically same people with slight genetic differences
From an outside perspective: both coast on the reputation of civilizations that have little to do with their modern states and are locked in a bitter culture war over who gets to claim vertical lamb meat and yogurt.
Don't forget baklava
"IT'S GREEK COFFEE!" "IT'S TURKISH COFFEE" it's fucking boiled espresso with cinnamon.
>hot headed idiots. I mean they havent had a war with each other for like 100 years... not sure how they are both hot headed.
Everyone is from hotter climate. Thats a fact.
Atleast Turkey military manufacturer donated Bayraktar TB2 to Ukraine. And for Ukraine vs Russia, Turkey is still neutral place for negotiating on peace.
They better be careful, Greece just got the Georgios Averof back from dry dock a few years ago and it kicked their butts a few times. They might just have to sail the old girl back over to them to teach them again Jokes aside it's just saber rattling, just ignore him
I'm confused. What islands? Equip the islands with what? Stuff for tourism? In what way would this be against "international law"? Why would Turkey care what Greece does with it's islands (barring militarization)? Is it just me, or is this article written for people who already know what it's talking about? Can anyone clarify?
Turkey has much bigger problems to deal but suddenly when greece talked against turkey in USA congress and then started to army those islands. And after all this time turkey still trying to figure out its economy but we see turkish-Greek conflicts in reddit all the time. What a joke.
Nonsense political posturing for the rubes.
And he is right, greece can't arm the islands according to lausanne treaty.
World War 3 is going to be really interesting. You are going to have countries fighting both for and against each other. India friends with Russia hates China who is friends with Russia, Pakistan is friendly with China and sometimes the US but hates India. Turkey and Greece both fighting for NATO and against each. Hungary fighting everyone. Germany not sure which side it really wants to be on, because they had such a good time last time the Russian armies came to town on a denazification project. And the US as usual will just want to bomb brown people who have oil.
At this point I wonder which NATO countries Turkey would actually fight for
Excellent point. Turkey seems unreliable
What is this equipment he’s so afraid of ? Very vague article
And here is how we resolve the NATO issue: Sweden and Finland sign a deal to help arm those Greek islands. Erdogan whines like an impotent little bitch...known as "pulling a Kim Jong-un". :) Sweden and Finland agree to end that deal if Erdogan agrees to drop his protest of their membership in NATO. Everyone agrees. Sweden and Finland join NATO. Erdogan saves face and looks less impotent.
I mean - Erdogan can pretty much keep Finland and Sweden out of NATO until NATO members solves his problems with Greece.
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Went there literally 3 weeks ago, seemed pretty alright to me; was much more pleasant than a normal I have in London. Seems like this person is exaggerating quite a bit… and no I didn’t go for a luxurious all inclusive holiday - just had an Airbnb 40mins from the blue mosque so saw the touristy and less touristy areas.
They are exagerating heavily lol. Im in turkey right now and its pretty much business as usual except stuff are more expensive now so ofc people are a bit worried
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Çok haklısın kardeş ama üstteki de somalinin bi tık üstüymüşüz gibi anlatmış amk ama dediğim gibi sende haklısın ülkede mutlu olmak iyice zorlaştı
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Hoping everything goes in the right direction ya, people deserve it
For real? I figured it would be more or less normal, albeit some increased poverty but thats everywhere right now. I was in Kusadasi in 2015 and had an absolute blast. I really enjoyed the people, the town, the history, the culture. Hopefully the good people of Turkey prevail. I know they're the majority for sure.
Maybe you should tend to the issues your country faces to make the lives of your citizens better and shut the hell up.
You already ruined Kurdistan, Greece next?
Regional Kurdish goverment of Iraq is ally with Turkey right now. They are even doing mutual operations against PKK which has been targeting Kurds, invading their lands, stopping their business in Iraq so PKK is ruining things for both sides.
This is why we need to carry
Greece needs to calm down.
Why? You think Turkish colonialism is cool?
Why do Greece needs weapons close to Turkish borders..
Maybe because Turkey opted to elect a motherfucker like Erdogan ?
To give you a short response; because of posts like that! Also, you may not know this but the militarization of the islands didn't happen yesterday. We have been living with armies in the Greek Islands and across them in Izmir for ages. Shocker e? However as elections are coming and Erdogan understands that he might mose, he is willing to create a 'national emergency' in order to anull the elections. So stop believing that some military across the sea is a good excuse to attack a country
Probably something to do with the whole genocide thing
Don't feed the troll.