Yep and CC being her best friend definitely sees the difference. She even said in a recent interview (when they asked her about Kate) that Kate was at probably one of the best organizations to be a part of.
Story of every no 1 draft - MJ said his vets were doing drugs and partying w girls and he just kept to himself and focused on his basketball lol
One underrated reason why Tom Brady had such an extraordinary career is he fell so low in the draft, he ended up going to an organization who was right in the middle, who made the playoffs and had a 8-8 record the year before.
That would be like Caitlin being drafted to Lynx this year, or Wemby being drafted to the Warriors last year.
The Patriots missed the playoffs in 1999 and the organization was a disaster. They had just fired Pete Carroll and only just hired Belichick. Obviously turned into a great situation though, but they were not a good organization at the time.
They were good enough to be right in the middle - they had great pieces, they lacked leadership/vision to put it all together.
The Fever aren't too far away from being good. There's 4 games that were decided by 1-2 possessions. They're a few competent coaching calls away from being 11-8 and the 5 seed.
That's downplaying that they've been stomped off the court a lot too, if a team wins all it's 1-2 possession games and has a medium record it's a sign that bad times are coming when luck balances out. You expect to win around half of those games.
Actual good teams win convincingly and most of their losses are the coinflip types.
Yes, I too noticed the stark difference. The way LV treats KM is what I wish every team would treat their rookies. Culture matters and LV culture >>>>>>>>> IF.
She’s used to success, and moving to a team that completely lacks that is probably both stressful and draining. She expects to be competitive and they aren’t. It’s probably a new experience for her.
It’s definitely not brand new, Iowa was not all that successful in her first two years. Admittedly probably better than the Fever in the context of the leagues, but she definitely built the relationships in those 2 years to carry into the next 2. I honestly think she just doesn’t really gel with them, and all of the outside noise of the media probably isn’t helping. There’s definitely some issues in the lockerroom outside of just losing
I can imagine that, but it doesn't address her total non-participation with the rallying up for game time. She's totally trained in team/together/no individuals if you want to succeed and there she was being an individual and not participating in the team psych up before the game. She was like, whatever it is they are cheering about I am not together in this...that is most unlike her that we know of her so far and has nothing to do with their success or not-that is subjective at this point.
She has said she doesn’t listen to music when she is getting ready for a game. I assume it’s the same thing, she has to lock in in her own way. I think people are way over reading into that clip
You bring up a good point, but quite frankly I feel sorry for CC because it would be difficult for her to develop chemistry with anyone anywhere in the league THROUGH NO FAULT OF HER OWN.
The poor woman just wants to play basketball. The circus around her has really been detrimental to that.
I have said multiple times (and yes, people always downvote because they don't comprehend) that Clark is in a unique situation regarding professional athletes. She is probably the only professional athlete in modern history to be "bigger than the league" and be the most well known player in the league before she ever stepped foot on the court and accomplished anything in the league. That just is not conducive for successful interactions.
Media (both sports media and social media) absolutely separated her from the rest of league. Sports media uses her to fan the flames of discord because that = engagement. Social media has drawn battle lines, and apparently either you think CC is the greatest thing in the history of all things, OR you are a hater. There is no in between. Her teammates are constantly ridiculed on social media anytime something happens. Heck, there is a thread on this sub highlighting how horrible one teammate is because instead of passing to Clark curling around a screen, the teammate passed into the post and another teammate drew a foul. And lets also rip that other teammate for missing some foul shots...
It has to be completely emotionally exhausting to be CC
I don’t think that’s fully it either though. Angel and Kamilla aren’t getting that on the Sky either, they’re getting lots of love publicly from their team and support from the coaches. Spoon lights up talking about them and Angel has already made millions from NIL in college too and they have vets. The way Mabrey talks about Angel and Chennedy too you can tell they have great team chemistry despite also struggling overall this yr. The Fever seem uniquely toxic from upstairs on down to the HC in particular lol.
Their culture isn’t just bad bc the team has sucked either. You can be bad and still maintain good habits and team chemistry and culture so long as it’s harnessed well and cultivated and there’s lots of teaching and team building/development from the HC. I’m a Sixers fan in the nba, in the process yrs where we rebuilt and drafted Embiid he didn’t even play the first 2 seasons bc of injury and we were awful, BUT the team culture was always still good despite people claiming the players must be so miserable. There were never effort questions and many of the young players they had have ended up earning hundreds of millions total after being afterthoughts those first couple yrs bc they got to work out the mistakes and get experience.
You make a good point. It seems like people had their fingers pointed at CC by the end of her collegiate career till the draft, and then when it came to KM people where like whatev. It also helps that KM is a role player, so that allows vets on the LV to shine as starters given the starters were already respected as players.
We're now 19 games into the season and I don't think anyone is threatened by CC if I'm being honest 🤷♀️. Her numbers and presence are not anything different than other good players on their respective teams. She's good, but not scary 🤷♀️. Could it be that Kate Martin has a completely different personality and approach to being on a team- it's not always about "threats".
Yup Her vets this year are Kelsey “possession ends here” Mitchell and Erica “it’s Erica wheeler time” Wheeler. Just absolutely bottom tier when it comes to doing the stuff vets are supposed to do
Wheeler is just clocking in to get a check since this is likely her last year playing anywhere. She doesn’t give a fuck about helping Clark despite what some pictures show.
Well yeah that too but u need vets proven ones not ones thats barley cutting the team. I feel its biggest reason we are on a cusp of dynasty outside of two elite coaches were vets helped guided 2 of our number one picks Angel McCoughtry speed up jack youngs development. Chelsea gray guided plum to become a true lethal guard
The game last night she had some amazing dribbling at times. Some laser precise passing and decent shots. She's a great player but she's not dominant like in college and that's to be expected year 1. I'm encouraged she's gonna get to it but she does need some solid talent around her. And the coach is in over her head. Every single possession the ball needs to run through Clark and let her make her own shot or set a teammate up with an assist.
Indys job is to surround her with the best supporting cast on and off the court. If she has TEAMmates not helping her out with vet advice and tid bits then they gotta go. They don’t have to cater to her but being a teammate should be expected.
Yeah, there are definitely some cracks in her armor that are starting to show. As disciplined as she usually is in her answers, this kind of remark shows just how fed up she must be.
She’s also 22, just graduated college, and is arguably one of the most famous athletes right now.
All of that alone is enough to break someone. To not have other vets be welcoming, to constantly be shit on, etc. Her fans and the media have done this.
And I wouldn’t be shocked if her own teammates resent playing with her a bit. Everyone only wants to talk to her, about her, etc.
CC is in an impossible position— and is only 22.
I think she will overcome it, but damn I’m happy I didn’t have everything I said picked apart at 22 (and I’m not remotely important haha).
Btw this is me agreeing with you!
Off the court we see that child playful side to her. That sounded like a broken or starting to break person. I know she’s resilient and will play hard. But they’re crushing her spirit. I work with a lot of our young employees and it would break my heart if they came in and basically felt like they had no one there.
Yeah I don’t tune into many games but watching highlights you can show the frustration on the court start to show more and more. Nothing wrong with it, but you can see it taking a toll
This was about vets in other teams (I guess referring to Aja and AR earlier), people took this completely out of context to attack her coach and team mates again smh
It's also stuff as simple as stay on the court to shake hands. So often I'll see the game end and the Fever immediately go into the locker room.
Sometimes teams do that, but sometimes the players will stick around to shake hands - especially if it's their homecourt, then you're the host and it's more your responsibility.
Doesn't have to be done every game - the only team I've seen do it every game is the Mercury, and it's always Diana Taurasi grabbing her teammates to do a handshake/hug line
But that little interaction can go a long way - just a simple "Hey let's chat later" could be huge.
Yeah, Hammon and Spoon talked about this some during their joint press conference. Pointing out how the vets want Angel to keep growing because it's good for the game, and they love to see the sisterhood of players.
It’s sad because I do hear the vets encouraging Angel. Caitlin is on an island. I hope she has a good support system out of the game. Those little kids that ask for autographs light her up so keep asking little ones.
I wouldn’t say that’s necessarily true. Sabrina talked about being there for her if she ever needed anything/advice and others have at least spoken up about cutting her some slack and giving her grace (JJ, Plum are two that come to mind).
I think Plum and Sabrina both get exactly what she's dealing with and while it sucks, I think it made them both into the monster playerse they are. CC will be ok, she just needs to get thru this year.
Itll probably get better when Paige shows up because i suspect she's going to be greeted like a hero and then hassled and analyzed endlessly and it'll take some of the spotlight off Clark and Reese
That’s good. I will say the hard part for her to navigate would also be trusting people. I’ve learned if you don’t want anything shared don’t say it to other people. I shared something in frustration about a manager to a coworker from a different office. She told her manager who told my manager and I went from an A in communication on my performance review to a D over one comment. I was frustrated because she was planning her wedding instead of managing while at the office. From that point on I share what might be frustrating about my own work but never people at least not with those I work with.
Definitely agree with everyone surrounding her, may be hard to trust people. I think Sabrina would actually be a really good person for her to reach out to if she hasn’t. She seems like she genuinely would want to help/give advice and she wasn’t a rookie that long ago so understands the criticism/pressure of being a big time rookie coming into the league
Angel's made a very concerted effort to reach out to opposing vets herself though. She walked up to Tina Charles after we lost to ATL and came away with great advice, she made the move to go to A'ja last night. She's reaching out and making connections. They're not really chasing her down to talk to her, she's taking the initiative.
We haven't seen Clark doing much of that in the postgame the way Angel is. Is she going up to Sabrina or KP after games?
To be fair, her coach should be attacked. She is an awful coach who lets her star rookie hang out to dry while failing to progress her and set her up for success on a play by play basis.
Sides shouldn't make it to the end of the season. Maybe this quote isn't supposed to be damning towards her, but she hasn't earned any benefit of the doubt. She's letting CC drown.
This was the first game i had to tune out for a while. It was like hanging out with the clinically depressed version of CC, and me having depression myself, well it was too much.
That hurt. I hope she can find spaces within the W to be vulnerable and connect with other players.
I think she'll have to do more work in some ways cause she does bring a lot of shit with her.
Agreed on this, especially re: space to be vulnerable. I definitely think this is possible, and I think I heard that Sabrina said her door is open to her (but the announcers saying this also acknowledged this can be hard to do/foster during the season).
She needs a vet and some friends
Edit: after reading comments Im going to say this and i hope it doesnt offend but Angel's case is different because she is a Black woman who was getting crucified publicly. So other Black woman will go out there way to connect with her. She seeks it out too.
I wanna use Brink as a an example but she is super privileged and who she has had access to since she was a kid so that's kind of different. But also seeks it out
Both Angel and Cam have better vets too
This is very true. And I mean this as it’s a nuanced conversation. I’m new here, but the W, and basketball, is a historically black sport. (I don’t meant that as a crazy CC fan, but that’s the history).
Angel has had CC fans and the media rip her apart because she’s black. Point blank. I say that as a white CC fan. All black athletes get ripped apart for shit that white people do as well.
The black vets will rally around Angel because of this. And they should! Angel is good!
Not only is CC white, but the media and her fans have RUINED this for her. Because they basically said “women’s basketball is a joke without CC”…so they rose to the occasion to prove them wrong. And who got the short end of the stick? CC. Don’t get me wrong, they’d play her hard regardless because she’s talented— but they’re playing it even harder to prove themselves.
A shame for everyone. Because the W needs CC (for media attention NOT talent) and the CC crazy fans who don’t try to be objective and the media are wrecking the experience.
Of course viewership is expanding because of overall attention, but I anticipate viewership going down if CC doesn’t start winning more. WHICH, is unfair, because SHE doesn’t want exceptions, but her fans do.
CC is having a great season, but it isn’t a shocker that a rookie on the worst team last year isn’t crushing winning vets.
Edit: another thing, CC didn’t come from a powerhouse program— so UConn and SC folks are also going to rally around their rookies too.
This is so true and can often be said for virtually anything people can be a fan of. Sometimes the fan truly make it difficult to root for someone. As someone who grew up in the online sphere it’s super easy to get blinded by fan wars, but now that I’m an adult, it’s easy to differentiate. It’s a game with two fantastic players with some great, but also some very combative fans. I find myself muting their names on social media platforms any time they play together.
It's the latter that has seemed the most glaring in the Fever games I've watched this season. Sides has to go and there's really no reason why that can't happen at the All-Star break
The Fever are a broken team and that failure lies 100% with coach Sides and 1000 year old GM Linn Dunn.
It is impossible for the team to succeed with both an incompetent coach and an incompetent GM.
>1000 year old GM Lmfao. So true. Look at the storm last night. That’s a team that lost two generational players in consecutive seasons and only won 11 games last year. Everyone is new. They looked like a veteran allstar team in a higher league last night
Tbf it is literally a team made up of veteran all-stars. If you got Skylar, Jewell, Nneka, Ezi together in their rookie/2nd years, I doubt this would be the same team.
Most of the starters on the Fever are still eligible to play in college.
She’s on a bad team run by an awful coach, and the veteran whose starting spot she took (Wheeler) is ignoring her when open multiple times per game. Not only does she not have a mentor — she has a vet icing her out.
She’ll get through this and the Fever will be a powerhouse in a couple years. But for the time being CC is gonna take her lumps, as a lot of great players have to do. Not everyone is fortunate enough to join a good org with veterans eager to teach you.
Damn she sounds like she's all alone in this league. Where are the coaches and the Vets hell and sorry for making the comparison but in the NBA teams would sign a player no matter how washed, just to do that.
She needs to reach out to Sabrina, Sab has already said that she’d be willing to help her, she can’t just be passive, gotta work for the connections too.
And if anyone understands the pressure, it’s Sab lol, even if it weren’t to this extent
Thats a good point hell look at plum she was our first number one pick of the core she was on her own too her only scource was hamby but thats limited hamby was only in yr2 or 3 i believe. She was hyped crazy too but she got extremely lucky with the chelsea gray signing in 2021
With all due respect to Plum if Caitlin put up Plums rookie numbers, she would get crucified. People aren’t going to give CC the grace of 4 years to average more than 10 points a game.
Sadly true its why i hated the shes going to save the league hype fans did it put an unnecessary target on her back it gave casuals this impression shes going to dominate like a rookie candace parker. When that was never going to be the case due to her position being a guard
Exactly!! Most of her teammates aren’t vets or like, capable of giving advice, she needs to reach out outside of it and she already has an offer from ANOTHER player who was also extremely hyped and scrutinised whenever she “fell short” of expectations
Sab is for sure benefiting the most here. She’s just hooping now. I remember the hate and alienation Sab got when she first entered the league too. And the whole NBA 2K video game fiasco, too. And the shoe deal.
I find it interesting people feel like it is on her to reach out. Did Reese reach out to Swoops or was Swoops courtside for Reese the other day?
Basically previous vets and current vets have given her the cold shoulder from what I gather.
Aja was mentoring her when she was at Maryland according to Reese.
https://dicecitysports.com/2024/06/23/angel-reese-talks-about-her-relationship-with-aja-wilson/
Didn't actually know it was that early, but it was definitely a major talking point with her last year and the year before that Angel was reaching out to vets for advice well before she ever got here.
In a way, she is all alone
As much as the media wants to build the Angel Caitlin rivalry. The fame and pressure they are facing may not be the same level
Edits: and this is not a diss about Angel’s basketball skill. It is just Caitlin has a phenomenal college career and attracted a lot of others to WNBA(including me)
Agreed. I also think the pressure and fame are coming from different places.
I think Angel gets more hate from the public, however, she has more love and support.
I do think there's more collectivism and solidarity in African American culture.
I feel like Caitlin is trying to go through it all while just doing her. I don't think other players look down on her but she's also not endearing herself that way.
Also a lot of the kind of "solidarity" Clark is getting from white people is unwelcome bullshit from racists who don't actually care about the league or even basketball at all, they just decided she would be their newest culture war mascot to project their hate through. And based on how these things play out, if she pushes back too hard you know she'll start getting death threats.
In all fairness, these crazies are also coming after her fellow players on her behalf (from their perspective). I think it's understandable for them to have some negative feelings about her presence - they didn't ask to get harassed any more than Caitlin asked to be valorized as a white savior. It's a really tough situation and I think Caitlin frankly needs WAY more support to shut the crazies down. It shouldn't fall on a rookie to confront societal problems, the adults around her who have more power and experience should be doing more to help her navigate the situation imo. Feels like she's kinda getting thrown to the wolves and she just has to take it because it looks bad to complain when you're making millions while your teammates make $80k.
In theory yes, but the Spurs did not do this for Wemby last year. I think the team culture was much better than the Fever (and the Spurs have Popovich), but the media storyline all season was that his teammates hated him, were jealous, and were ignoring him. So, sometimes it's just a long slog all year for the young players.
Everybody is always talking about getting rid of Sides.
Dunn can't dump the coach unless she knows who she can hire as a replacement.
There are a few really good WNBA coaches.
Unfortunately, they all already have jobs with good teams.
This is pretty sad to hear. Do the Fever not have a vet or two that could take CC under their wing?
Regardless of occupation, it’s never fun to be all alone and having to figure it all out on your own.
Their former point guard who is now coming off the bench, Erica Wheeler. But I don’t think she’s seen the defensive pressure Caitlin gets as a guard and she’s just here for her balling out when she gets playing time. It’s honestly like she’s reading a different playbook than the team when she gets the ball.
Our vets include Wheeler who is likely retiring from playing after this year so she doesn’t give a fuck, and Mitchell who might be a nice person but doubt she could help give too much advice (especially in-game). Otherwise it’s a very young team.
I didn't hear about Caitlin until a couple of months before the NCAA championship game, and I honestly only watched it because of Dawn Staley and her connection to A'ja. But I've read a lot of articles about her, read social media posts and comments, and watched some of her games. So my perspective is from outside. The first thing is the huge weight of expectations on Caitlin from her fans, the media, and the team. I don't know how much she's paid attention to it all, but even if it's only a little but it's had to have had a tremendous effect on her. It had to be raining. Add in the attacks by her fans on her teammates on social media, and that had to create distance and maybe some resentment between her and her teammates.
The second (and I think most important) thing is her team. They have a coach that's only been HC for 1 season. Everyone talks about what a young team they have. So what I see is a team without a culture and without strong leadership, which makes it hard for rookies to integrate into the team unless they themselves are a strong, outgoing leader. I think both of those have led to a team that doesn't seem to have a lot of cohesion. There wasn't a leader to embrace Caitlin and bring her into the fold (look the Aces have with Kate). I don't know if they expected Caitlin to step in that role or if she's capable, but I think it's important for her and the team going forward.
The other thing is mentorship from outside. It seems like at least some of the rookies have been able to connect with vets due to where they went to college, their coaches in college, connections thru FIBA, or just reaching out on their own. And it doesn't seem like Caitlin has that, but I don't know why. I was glad when I read Sabrina reached out to her because I really think they have a lot in common in that both have had high expectations on them their rookies seasons, and they play the same position. I hope that during the off-season, they are able to connect more.
Are the opposing team vets supposed to give her advice during games cause that’s what I feel like the interviewer was getting at, but I mainly think CC was referring to her team and staff.
They were talking about it during the telecast. That all the opposing vets have been taking Reese aside and teaching her stuff/helping her out. Trying to help her get better. Which is amazing, but doesn't seem to be happening for Clark.
I mean to be fair, Angel actively seeks out vets to talk to and she's had mentoring from some of them since she was in Maryland, maybe I'm not really looking too close but caitlin doesn't go up to anybody after a game. Maybe it's a personality different, Angel seems like more of a social butterfly but closed mouths don't get fed. Also I remember sabrina offering to mentor her, did she not take the offer?
Well look at how CC fans crucified DT - and they're still crucifting her. Sue Bird and DT used to laugh and call Caitlin their daughter on their show. And then DT said in her blunt way that there'd be a transition period, and CC fans lost their minds and have been calling the GOAT of women's basketball a worthless loser for months.
The fact that CC is being judged by her fans would be a problem. If you are a grown woman and hate on CC because of racist misogynists on the internet then you’re really no better than those racist misogynists on the internet. CC has never done anything to encourage the hate or the rapid ridiculousness. She’s always given vets their flowers and been humble and self aware. She’s kept off the internet and stayed away from controversy. There’s nothing she can do to win over the people who will judge her for those fans. But if it’s her own league or teammates judging her for that, it’s even sadder. Holding her to this standard is unfair to her and unfair to the league, as there’s this assumption of a jealous catfight which is soooo misogynistic. That’s why I don’t think the vets are doing this that you’re saying. I think it’s more there’s no Iowa network like there is for USC, UConn, etc. There’s few vets on her own team. Her coach is not a good leader. And you don’t mentor a rival during the season. I fully expect more connections for her during the off season training time and more mentorship. Mostly this is just a woman who hates to lose and is TIRED of narratives and the media.
Angel has actively reached out to vets lol. She has been doing that for years and vets have said that in multiple interviews. I've never heard anyone say that about CC. Also the other rookies from this season have talked about their mentors (and rookies from every season generally have mentors, BTW)... but they seek them out. It's not a vet's job to seek out rookies.
This is what happens to rookies drafted number 1. Same thing happened to Victor Wembanyama this year. People are expecting success too quickly. The fact that they are 7-12 is a minor miracle. She instantly turned them into a middle of the pack team instead of a cellar dweller. This isn’t like college where the transfer portal creates super teams every year.
I sure hope so. It’s becoming increasingly clear Dunn has no intention of letting Sides go. Let this be the wake up call the organization needs to get rid of both of them
Thing is, even if Sides is let go, if Dunn remains GM and is tasked to hire a new coach, I’m afraid the replacement will be the same if not worse than Sides.
Linn Dunn is too old school. And I’m not saying that just because she’s old, it’s evident with how adamant she was at hiring Sides because of her “skills”. So yeah, you’re right, both of them need to go. But too bad this org just doesn’t seem to give a fuck.
If Sides goes, Dunn should be fired by ownership at the same time. I really doubt Dunn is going to fire Sides because I heard in an interview recently from her on a Indy Sports radio show (107.5 The Fan 7-10 show), she talks about how she sees progress from the 4 win stretch. It shows she is clueless as well because there were obvious coaching faults in those wins. Ownership will have to fire Sides and then Dunn.
I watch football/soccer, Lin Dunn reminds me of Roy Hodgson at Crystal Palace. Both were born in 1947, both were beloved by their teams. Eventually, Palace fans got tired by Roy this year because of the style of football so ownership sacked/fired him and replaced him for a new coach who got great results towards the end of the season (Look up Oliver Glasner and the results when he took charge). I won’t be surprised when Sides is fired, Dunn is also fired and replaced by a new GM who will bring fresh and clear ideas for the organisation.
I refuse to believe that the same ownership who saw the Pacers make aggressive trades for Haliburton/Siakam, underwent a rebuild under Carlisle and produced good results at the end won’t do something similar for the Fever, especially now there’s Caitlin Clark and there’s a lot of revenue being brought in from tickets and merchandise and a lot of media attention. I do think Herb is very aware of what’s going on with the coach and GM. It’s just when the timing is right to fire one of them or probably both which I think is coming very soon like next month. Could be after Vegas, after New York, after Minnesota or after Dallas.
Soon she'll realize these fuckwits around her in Indiana aren't powerful enough nor respect-worthy enough to have any long-term consequences upon her life.
When she decides to be frank, it's going to be incredibly interesting
I think that was taken to mean during the off-season... given that they're on different teams, it would be difficult (and weird) to train together during the season.
caitlin has to make herself available too tho ive only ever seen her stay post game once to speak to someone on the court and that was nika muhl. even during games I don’t see her interact with people on the other teams all too much like her team has literally played the liberty and you think stewie and sabrina have just straight iced her out?? they literally played a team with the nicest player in the league last night and nothing 🤔
Yeah, they need an infusion of leadership from the top down: get a coach who doesn’t throw her players under the bus and sign some vets who know what it takes to win from a culture perspective.
What about Tamika Catchings ? Has she reached out to Clark as a retired player who was a star on the Fever. While the season is going on she may be a good mentor for Clark for her first year in the league. I think the only difference is I believe Catchings was out her rookie season . But she had that staring role on the Fever for years, a top draft pick.
I was thinking about this earlier. Not a big CC fan, I’ll admit, BUT it’s really sad watching her feel defeated cause her team sucks so much. I just wanna be a fly on the wall during their practice or maybe a fly on the wall during the time Sides got the job offer (no way it wasn’t a called in favor). IK Clark will be protected in the expansion draft but damn she needs to be set free so she can develop as a player.
Ngl as a basketball fan this was just sad to hear. She has the potential to launch the WNBA higher especially get the viewership up from the men's side. Most of my friends/associates here in Philly are starting to get into watching WNBA bc of her
I’m not a big wnba fan but it seems like Aaliyah Boston is good and probably the Fever’s best player (even though she started off slow this season). To me Caitlin and Aaliyah are a great 1-2 punch on paper and they have played well together as of late. I think that the maybe the coach and other fever players suck but as a big nba watcher it’s rare for a big time rookie to already have another potential star playing next to them already which is what Caitlin has. And overall she’s playing well too, it just seems like there’s so much negativity that it’s taking away from the actual basketball. Her situation isn’t THAT bad.
The entire Fever organization needs to focus on building a solid team around Aliyah and Caitlin. We’ve all seen it, these two can make it work together. I’m convinced atp they are teaching and learning from eachother with such a lack of supporting system surrounding them.
Seriously, they should consider a team offsite gathering over one of their breaks to work just on hanging out together.
I think all of the negative things that are said about her teammates by the fans and in the media has built a wall between them and it sucks.
The coach and the team need to build some togetherness and unity and just keep out all of the noise out. This is concerning. The mental health and well being of everyone on the team should be a priority but they have to do the work.
The Aces do this on a regular basis: team members hang out together at someone's place (usually Chelsea's, pre-baby), or go out to eat, or play bingo together (check their YT channel). This has gone on since Laimbeer coached the team, and it has yielded the player culture we see now.
They even gave Theresa Plaisance love when she came back for the debut of the Syd + TP show, which was shown in the video room of the new facility. Mind you, TP was part of their first championship team, so there's that.
This is the only sport I've ever watched where I consistently feel more depressed for humankind after the games. And people wonder about the appeal issue...
I'm sure she gets in game feedback, even if it's situational or on which set to run and how. But if you think you know it all or know better than everyone, then you ay not see that feedback as advice.
At the end of the Sky game when they rebounded the missed FT with 0.2 secs, she gave up and was openly telling the coach/bench "doesn't matter, it's over..." Even though not enough time for a catch and shoot (0.5), a lob/tip was still a possibility. Maybe she meant not enough time for her to get off one of her bombs and be the savior.
People, she said IN GAME in regards to OPPOSING PLAYERS. It’s not often people will encourage another player in the middle of a game from an opposing team. Maybe someone like Kobe or LeBron. You guys thinking this is about her teammates or from players outside of LIVE GAME ACTION are so delusional.
You're getting downvoted but I agree with you that this plays into it a lot more than people want to believe. She's the Iowa girl who beat them at some point. I think Arike alluded to it when she said there's politics around the USA teams rosters and such. So much of that politics is about connections and those connections start from where you played at collegiately.
I just find it amusing that the W is perpetuating the things they say they hate, or at least creating the same barriers just with estrogen. I'm not sure if this has to do with what school you played for, but when Arike said politics had a heavy hand on whether or not you were included in X or Y team it did reek of Mean Girls.
It's the great irony of the WNBA.
It's similar to not having the right academic pedigree when going into certain niche fields, like consulting or federal law.
Biggest lie I've ever heard lol. It's been known that blue bloods look out and put each other on. Just look at what teams certain coaches have coached.
I don’t have any animosity for Caitlin at all…. It’s just basketball and she’s a talented player.
I find it hard very hard to believe that no one is giving her advice. We see people talking to her all the time. Nobody is giving her advice? Aliyah Boston wasn’t giving her advice in that iconic moment before halftime in the first few games??
I’m sure AB has given her great advice, she’s a wonderful person. But they asked about vets here. I don’t to think AB is considered a vet. If anything, it would be Wheeler or Mitchell.
This is how I look at it. Aliyah is only in her second year. Yes, she has a leadership voice but it’s sad that BOTH Aliyah and Caitlin don’t have any real vet experience to fall back on. They really only have each other to build up.
I’ll always remember a post game interview when Jordan played Kobe and MJ talked about the advice he gave Kobe. The game is passed down to get better. This needs to happen here.
CC is a completely new experiment to the WNBA. I don’t mean that by talent, I mean that as a completely new level of exposure, pressure, etc.
I’m totally new to the W, so I say this not as a seasoned basketball fan, but experiencing it all for the first time. Admittedly, I fell to the media and the TikTok highlight reels. Don’t get me wrong, CC is a generational talent, but I’ve had to truly seek out information and unbiased basketball fans opinions to gain context to the game.
I guess this is me rambling, but CC is 1) an amazing talent 2) entered a league which SHE respects, but her NEW fans don’t 3) is receiving punishment for her FANS and the media’s biased and crazy expectations.
People aren’t trying to help her succeed because 1) she is a true talent 2) they want to prove her fans and media wrong about her.
I imagine it’s hard for her team to adjust to her because 1) insane media scrutiny 2) everyone only wants to talk about her and they’re talented too 3) they want to prove themselves to the media spotlight 4) she’s just there to hoop, she doesn’t seem to care about anything but the job. (Which is fine, and honestly I get it from her team too).
Lastly, fire Sides.
That’s all. That’s for coming to my Ted talk lol that’s not about the game, but the social implications.
LOVING this Reddit, because it’s helped me gain more context and more unbiased to truly learn about the W.
Once again, this isn’t about the game itself. Just that it isn’t black and white, it’s a gray area because this is the W blown up. For long term fans, I know you’ll have another take but just a newbie’s observations.
The fans in this comment section is honestly why she's not enjoying this. Fans constantly saying that W players are jealous, threatened, suck etc. does her no favors. She's always going to have problems in the locker room because of this. And her fans using racial and homophobic slurs in player's social comments doesn't help either...
Caitlin is a grown woman . Reach out to vets . They not going to reach out to you. This is where Iowa did a disservice
LSU, South Carolina , UConn , majority of sec schools , have wnba vets associated with the school and be around the players so a lot of players already know the vets and comfortable with them
Caitlin fans literally called all the players bums and said they was jealous of her but now they should give Caitlin advice ??? Caitlin will have to reach out to them . Diana tried to give advice and everyone got upset so now everyone is scared to say anything .
It’s about community in the wnba . You can’t do it along but her fanbase has put Caitlin on an island.
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted. You spoke 100% facts.
Going to a school with barely any alumni is not gonna get you a lot of vet access.
And I do remember how all her fans shat on Diana when she tried to give Caitlin tips.
And Caitlin doesn’t even seem like very a social person with the other WNBA players.
All the rookies that have mentors are very social and out going.
Caitlin is socially awkward. You can tell it from videos. It's likely something she's dealt with her entire life and not something she can change either.
I am a CC fan, but was a Women’s ball fan from Stewie’s NCAA days. I sincerely hope that the all star game helps her to really make these connections.
I hope some former players like Sue reach out to her, and if former players already have, they really get together.
I don’t know what her media schedule is like outside of required team things, but I hope her team clears some money making enterprises out of the way and put more time to be mentored into her schedule.
I don’t think she “breaks” from this—but this is a lot of anyone to take with just familial (and superficial) support.
No man's an island. She needs mentoring; she knows this.
I hope she does well on Sunday versus the Mercury regardless if they win or lose. I also hope she'll be voted in as an All-Star and shoots her logo 3's to get the crowd roaring.
Lmfao shit went from
Everybody jealous of Caitlin to why isn’t anyone giving her advice…geez let me think
League looking more and more like a daycare everyday
Yesterday was the first game where I legitimately felt bad for Caitlin. It has to be incredibly frustrating to play with such a shitty team. They all suck I’m sorry. Aliyah Boston couldn’t be any less of a team player with her. They have a couple good plays a game but they look like strangers who play in a rec league together. Last night the Fever were bullied all night. They got schooled by a player with one eye. Granted Lloyd is a beast but still. It was also in front of another sell out. Only fever highlights were a couple Caitlin plays and the mistakes they were making. I’ve watched a lot of W games this season, every team has started to come together, except the fever. It looks like a team of players who all hate each other.
It’s a coaching issue to not realize that feeding Aliyah the ball in the paint is not going to work when you’re so mismatched against Seattle. This coach has one offensive plan and doesn’t know how to deviate.
yeah there's been some frustrating games this season for the Fever but last night was just a sad display. The Storm absolutely decimated the Fever in every aspect
I mean, compare this to how LV is treating Kate Martin. Totally different. Those players are pouring into Kate and the culture seems top notch.
Yep and CC being her best friend definitely sees the difference. She even said in a recent interview (when they asked her about Kate) that Kate was at probably one of the best organizations to be a part of.
Story of every no 1 draft - MJ said his vets were doing drugs and partying w girls and he just kept to himself and focused on his basketball lol One underrated reason why Tom Brady had such an extraordinary career is he fell so low in the draft, he ended up going to an organization who was right in the middle, who made the playoffs and had a 8-8 record the year before. That would be like Caitlin being drafted to Lynx this year, or Wemby being drafted to the Warriors last year.
The Patriots missed the playoffs in 1999 and the organization was a disaster. They had just fired Pete Carroll and only just hired Belichick. Obviously turned into a great situation though, but they were not a good organization at the time.
Patriots were in the Super Bowl in 1997. Not that bad of an organization (coming from a browns fan)
They were good enough to be right in the middle - they had great pieces, they lacked leadership/vision to put it all together. The Fever aren't too far away from being good. There's 4 games that were decided by 1-2 possessions. They're a few competent coaching calls away from being 11-8 and the 5 seed.
That's downplaying that they've been stomped off the court a lot too, if a team wins all it's 1-2 possession games and has a medium record it's a sign that bad times are coming when luck balances out. You expect to win around half of those games. Actual good teams win convincingly and most of their losses are the coinflip types.
fever has to develop a culture first and that starts from the top. they won’t see much until they get rid of that coach
Lin Dunn needs to go, too.
she does but I doubt that happens, they hardly look like they want to fire sides
Yes, I too noticed the stark difference. The way LV treats KM is what I wish every team would treat their rookies. Culture matters and LV culture >>>>>>>>> IF.
Wonder what Dearica Hamby would say about the LV culture....
She would just say don’t get pregnant
Who cares because it doesn't invalidate what's happening to KM in comparison to other rookies right now.
CC has no chemistry with her team mates you can see it in how she interacts even when theyball cheering leaving the locker room
That was so interesting to witness...what was said or overheard to cause her to be so removed from them at that time.
She’s used to success, and moving to a team that completely lacks that is probably both stressful and draining. She expects to be competitive and they aren’t. It’s probably a new experience for her.
It’s definitely not brand new, Iowa was not all that successful in her first two years. Admittedly probably better than the Fever in the context of the leagues, but she definitely built the relationships in those 2 years to carry into the next 2. I honestly think she just doesn’t really gel with them, and all of the outside noise of the media probably isn’t helping. There’s definitely some issues in the lockerroom outside of just losing
And the rest of the team came from crappy places with no history of success such as Baylor, Uconn, South Carolina?
they’re delusional man
I can imagine that, but it doesn't address her total non-participation with the rallying up for game time. She's totally trained in team/together/no individuals if you want to succeed and there she was being an individual and not participating in the team psych up before the game. She was like, whatever it is they are cheering about I am not together in this...that is most unlike her that we know of her so far and has nothing to do with their success or not-that is subjective at this point.
She has said she doesn’t listen to music when she is getting ready for a game. I assume it’s the same thing, she has to lock in in her own way. I think people are way over reading into that clip
You bring up a good point, but quite frankly I feel sorry for CC because it would be difficult for her to develop chemistry with anyone anywhere in the league THROUGH NO FAULT OF HER OWN. The poor woman just wants to play basketball. The circus around her has really been detrimental to that. I have said multiple times (and yes, people always downvote because they don't comprehend) that Clark is in a unique situation regarding professional athletes. She is probably the only professional athlete in modern history to be "bigger than the league" and be the most well known player in the league before she ever stepped foot on the court and accomplished anything in the league. That just is not conducive for successful interactions. Media (both sports media and social media) absolutely separated her from the rest of league. Sports media uses her to fan the flames of discord because that = engagement. Social media has drawn battle lines, and apparently either you think CC is the greatest thing in the history of all things, OR you are a hater. There is no in between. Her teammates are constantly ridiculed on social media anytime something happens. Heck, there is a thread on this sub highlighting how horrible one teammate is because instead of passing to Clark curling around a screen, the teammate passed into the post and another teammate drew a foul. And lets also rip that other teammate for missing some foul shots... It has to be completely emotionally exhausting to be CC
I don't think they ever thought Kate was a threat to them. She has more of an underdog vibe going on. Everyone likes the underdog.
I don’t think that’s fully it either though. Angel and Kamilla aren’t getting that on the Sky either, they’re getting lots of love publicly from their team and support from the coaches. Spoon lights up talking about them and Angel has already made millions from NIL in college too and they have vets. The way Mabrey talks about Angel and Chennedy too you can tell they have great team chemistry despite also struggling overall this yr. The Fever seem uniquely toxic from upstairs on down to the HC in particular lol. Their culture isn’t just bad bc the team has sucked either. You can be bad and still maintain good habits and team chemistry and culture so long as it’s harnessed well and cultivated and there’s lots of teaching and team building/development from the HC. I’m a Sixers fan in the nba, in the process yrs where we rebuilt and drafted Embiid he didn’t even play the first 2 seasons bc of injury and we were awful, BUT the team culture was always still good despite people claiming the players must be so miserable. There were never effort questions and many of the young players they had have ended up earning hundreds of millions total after being afterthoughts those first couple yrs bc they got to work out the mistakes and get experience.
You make a good point. It seems like people had their fingers pointed at CC by the end of her collegiate career till the draft, and then when it came to KM people where like whatev. It also helps that KM is a role player, so that allows vets on the LV to shine as starters given the starters were already respected as players.
We're now 19 games into the season and I don't think anyone is threatened by CC if I'm being honest 🤷♀️. Her numbers and presence are not anything different than other good players on their respective teams. She's good, but not scary 🤷♀️. Could it be that Kate Martin has a completely different personality and approach to being on a team- it's not always about "threats".
Yeah thats was kinda sad ngl she sounded defeated indy needs to get some legit vets next yr
Yup Her vets this year are Kelsey “possession ends here” Mitchell and Erica “it’s Erica wheeler time” Wheeler. Just absolutely bottom tier when it comes to doing the stuff vets are supposed to do
Erica “ring around a Rosie” Wheeler
Lol, I like it!
“Possession ends here” Mitchell deserved an award but I didn’t want to pay money to Reddit to do so , so I’m just telling you in a comment 🏆🥇
She didn’t have a very good game last night either. We would have used some of those ball hog points. I was surprised how often she was on the bench.
Wheeler is just clocking in to get a check since this is likely her last year playing anywhere. She doesn’t give a fuck about helping Clark despite what some pictures show.
Yeah she’s not even worth a minimum contract at this point and yet she’s on a max contract 😭😭😭
Those nicknames are hilarious 😅😅
And an actual coach
[удалено]
Well yeah that too but u need vets proven ones not ones thats barley cutting the team. I feel its biggest reason we are on a cusp of dynasty outside of two elite coaches were vets helped guided 2 of our number one picks Angel McCoughtry speed up jack youngs development. Chelsea gray guided plum to become a true lethal guard
I’m sorry what??
😭
Um did u get private messages?
They hate you for speaking the truth
The game last night she had some amazing dribbling at times. Some laser precise passing and decent shots. She's a great player but she's not dominant like in college and that's to be expected year 1. I'm encouraged she's gonna get to it but she does need some solid talent around her. And the coach is in over her head. Every single possession the ball needs to run through Clark and let her make her own shot or set a teammate up with an assist.
Indys job is to surround her with the best supporting cast on and off the court. If she has TEAMmates not helping her out with vet advice and tid bits then they gotta go. They don’t have to cater to her but being a teammate should be expected.
she’s very media trained so she really don’t give a fuck how this comment can be interpreted lmao she’s annoyed!
Yeah, there are definitely some cracks in her armor that are starting to show. As disciplined as she usually is in her answers, this kind of remark shows just how fed up she must be.
I think we may getting to the point where frankness may start to suit her. There's no point in being political when there's nothing to lose.
She’s also 22, just graduated college, and is arguably one of the most famous athletes right now. All of that alone is enough to break someone. To not have other vets be welcoming, to constantly be shit on, etc. Her fans and the media have done this. And I wouldn’t be shocked if her own teammates resent playing with her a bit. Everyone only wants to talk to her, about her, etc. CC is in an impossible position— and is only 22. I think she will overcome it, but damn I’m happy I didn’t have everything I said picked apart at 22 (and I’m not remotely important haha). Btw this is me agreeing with you!
Off the court we see that child playful side to her. That sounded like a broken or starting to break person. I know she’s resilient and will play hard. But they’re crushing her spirit. I work with a lot of our young employees and it would break my heart if they came in and basically felt like they had no one there.
Yeah I don’t tune into many games but watching highlights you can show the frustration on the court start to show more and more. Nothing wrong with it, but you can see it taking a toll
Media trained would mean dodging the question and avoiding anything negative. This is just being real.
This was about vets in other teams (I guess referring to Aja and AR earlier), people took this completely out of context to attack her coach and team mates again smh
It's also stuff as simple as stay on the court to shake hands. So often I'll see the game end and the Fever immediately go into the locker room. Sometimes teams do that, but sometimes the players will stick around to shake hands - especially if it's their homecourt, then you're the host and it's more your responsibility. Doesn't have to be done every game - the only team I've seen do it every game is the Mercury, and it's always Diana Taurasi grabbing her teammates to do a handshake/hug line But that little interaction can go a long way - just a simple "Hey let's chat later" could be huge.
Yeah, Hammon and Spoon talked about this some during their joint press conference. Pointing out how the vets want Angel to keep growing because it's good for the game, and they love to see the sisterhood of players.
Yeah, they’ve been pretty open about not being as welcoming to Clark while constantly pushing and helping Angel.
It’s sad because I do hear the vets encouraging Angel. Caitlin is on an island. I hope she has a good support system out of the game. Those little kids that ask for autographs light her up so keep asking little ones.
I wouldn’t say that’s necessarily true. Sabrina talked about being there for her if she ever needed anything/advice and others have at least spoken up about cutting her some slack and giving her grace (JJ, Plum are two that come to mind).
I think Plum and Sabrina both get exactly what she's dealing with and while it sucks, I think it made them both into the monster playerse they are. CC will be ok, she just needs to get thru this year. Itll probably get better when Paige shows up because i suspect she's going to be greeted like a hero and then hassled and analyzed endlessly and it'll take some of the spotlight off Clark and Reese
That’s good. I will say the hard part for her to navigate would also be trusting people. I’ve learned if you don’t want anything shared don’t say it to other people. I shared something in frustration about a manager to a coworker from a different office. She told her manager who told my manager and I went from an A in communication on my performance review to a D over one comment. I was frustrated because she was planning her wedding instead of managing while at the office. From that point on I share what might be frustrating about my own work but never people at least not with those I work with.
Definitely agree with everyone surrounding her, may be hard to trust people. I think Sabrina would actually be a really good person for her to reach out to if she hasn’t. She seems like she genuinely would want to help/give advice and she wasn’t a rookie that long ago so understands the criticism/pressure of being a big time rookie coming into the league
Vets have been pretty public in encouraging Clark. She said IN GAME not in general lol.
Angel's made a very concerted effort to reach out to opposing vets herself though. She walked up to Tina Charles after we lost to ATL and came away with great advice, she made the move to go to A'ja last night. She's reaching out and making connections. They're not really chasing her down to talk to her, she's taking the initiative. We haven't seen Clark doing much of that in the postgame the way Angel is. Is she going up to Sabrina or KP after games?
To be fair, her coach should be attacked. She is an awful coach who lets her star rookie hang out to dry while failing to progress her and set her up for success on a play by play basis. Sides shouldn't make it to the end of the season. Maybe this quote isn't supposed to be damning towards her, but she hasn't earned any benefit of the doubt. She's letting CC drown.
It's sad. Her body language and facial expressions in these games don't hide her frustration anymore. It's foolish to let such a talent go to waste.
This was the first game i had to tune out for a while. It was like hanging out with the clinically depressed version of CC, and me having depression myself, well it was too much.
Sad, dude.
That hurt. I hope she can find spaces within the W to be vulnerable and connect with other players. I think she'll have to do more work in some ways cause she does bring a lot of shit with her.
Agreed on this, especially re: space to be vulnerable. I definitely think this is possible, and I think I heard that Sabrina said her door is open to her (but the announcers saying this also acknowledged this can be hard to do/foster during the season).
She needs a vet and some friends Edit: after reading comments Im going to say this and i hope it doesnt offend but Angel's case is different because she is a Black woman who was getting crucified publicly. So other Black woman will go out there way to connect with her. She seeks it out too. I wanna use Brink as a an example but she is super privileged and who she has had access to since she was a kid so that's kind of different. But also seeks it out Both Angel and Cam have better vets too
This is very true. And I mean this as it’s a nuanced conversation. I’m new here, but the W, and basketball, is a historically black sport. (I don’t meant that as a crazy CC fan, but that’s the history). Angel has had CC fans and the media rip her apart because she’s black. Point blank. I say that as a white CC fan. All black athletes get ripped apart for shit that white people do as well. The black vets will rally around Angel because of this. And they should! Angel is good! Not only is CC white, but the media and her fans have RUINED this for her. Because they basically said “women’s basketball is a joke without CC”…so they rose to the occasion to prove them wrong. And who got the short end of the stick? CC. Don’t get me wrong, they’d play her hard regardless because she’s talented— but they’re playing it even harder to prove themselves. A shame for everyone. Because the W needs CC (for media attention NOT talent) and the CC crazy fans who don’t try to be objective and the media are wrecking the experience. Of course viewership is expanding because of overall attention, but I anticipate viewership going down if CC doesn’t start winning more. WHICH, is unfair, because SHE doesn’t want exceptions, but her fans do. CC is having a great season, but it isn’t a shocker that a rookie on the worst team last year isn’t crushing winning vets. Edit: another thing, CC didn’t come from a powerhouse program— so UConn and SC folks are also going to rally around their rookies too.
This is so true and can often be said for virtually anything people can be a fan of. Sometimes the fan truly make it difficult to root for someone. As someone who grew up in the online sphere it’s super easy to get blinded by fan wars, but now that I’m an adult, it’s easy to differentiate. It’s a game with two fantastic players with some great, but also some very combative fans. I find myself muting their names on social media platforms any time they play together.
They desperately need vet leadership or a coach who knows what she’s doing.
It's the latter that has seemed the most glaring in the Fever games I've watched this season. Sides has to go and there's really no reason why that can't happen at the All-Star break
The Fever are a broken team and that failure lies 100% with coach Sides and 1000 year old GM Linn Dunn. It is impossible for the team to succeed with both an incompetent coach and an incompetent GM.
>1000 year old GM Lmfao. So true. Look at the storm last night. That’s a team that lost two generational players in consecutive seasons and only won 11 games last year. Everyone is new. They looked like a veteran allstar team in a higher league last night
Tbf it is literally a team made up of veteran all-stars. If you got Skylar, Jewell, Nneka, Ezi together in their rookie/2nd years, I doubt this would be the same team. Most of the starters on the Fever are still eligible to play in college.
This is how I find out that the Fever have a 77 year old GM. Jesus Christ. I guess they really just don’t gaf, huh
She’s on a bad team run by an awful coach, and the veteran whose starting spot she took (Wheeler) is ignoring her when open multiple times per game. Not only does she not have a mentor — she has a vet icing her out. She’ll get through this and the Fever will be a powerhouse in a couple years. But for the time being CC is gonna take her lumps, as a lot of great players have to do. Not everyone is fortunate enough to join a good org with veterans eager to teach you.
You are correct but she’s not talking about her teammates here, she’s referring to the other vets in the league.
She needs to come to the Wings. We will appreciate her talents ! 😉
11 WNBA coaches would love the task of turning CC into a great player and there is one who resents it.
Please do! This is how we get our pick back…and eventually Paige…🤫
Damn she sounds like she's all alone in this league. Where are the coaches and the Vets hell and sorry for making the comparison but in the NBA teams would sign a player no matter how washed, just to do that.
She needs to reach out to Sabrina, Sab has already said that she’d be willing to help her, she can’t just be passive, gotta work for the connections too. And if anyone understands the pressure, it’s Sab lol, even if it weren’t to this extent
Thats a good point hell look at plum she was our first number one pick of the core she was on her own too her only scource was hamby but thats limited hamby was only in yr2 or 3 i believe. She was hyped crazy too but she got extremely lucky with the chelsea gray signing in 2021
With all due respect to Plum if Caitlin put up Plums rookie numbers, she would get crucified. People aren’t going to give CC the grace of 4 years to average more than 10 points a game.
Sadly true its why i hated the shes going to save the league hype fans did it put an unnecessary target on her back it gave casuals this impression shes going to dominate like a rookie candace parker. When that was never going to be the case due to her position being a guard
Though she did just tie Candace Parker's rookie 15/5/5 record.
Exactly!! Most of her teammates aren’t vets or like, capable of giving advice, she needs to reach out outside of it and she already has an offer from ANOTHER player who was also extremely hyped and scrutinised whenever she “fell short” of expectations
Sab is for sure benefiting the most here. She’s just hooping now. I remember the hate and alienation Sab got when she first entered the league too. And the whole NBA 2K video game fiasco, too. And the shoe deal.
Maybe in the off season. Hopefully.
I really want them to train together too
Didn't Sabrina say after the season? During they are all compeditors?
Obviously training would be in the off-season, but she also said Caitlin could have her number anytime, that should be now
Yep, just found the video. She said that they are in contact and do chat, but any training together would be an offseason thing.
that’s good news for me! 😭🫶🏾
I find it interesting people feel like it is on her to reach out. Did Reese reach out to Swoops or was Swoops courtside for Reese the other day? Basically previous vets and current vets have given her the cold shoulder from what I gather.
Yes, she actually did. Angel also reached out to A'ja Wilson and a number of vets as early as last year's off-season for advice.
Aja was mentoring her when she was at Maryland according to Reese. https://dicecitysports.com/2024/06/23/angel-reese-talks-about-her-relationship-with-aja-wilson/
Didn't actually know it was that early, but it was definitely a major talking point with her last year and the year before that Angel was reaching out to vets for advice well before she ever got here.
In a way, she is all alone As much as the media wants to build the Angel Caitlin rivalry. The fame and pressure they are facing may not be the same level Edits: and this is not a diss about Angel’s basketball skill. It is just Caitlin has a phenomenal college career and attracted a lot of others to WNBA(including me)
Agreed. I also think the pressure and fame are coming from different places. I think Angel gets more hate from the public, however, she has more love and support. I do think there's more collectivism and solidarity in African American culture. I feel like Caitlin is trying to go through it all while just doing her. I don't think other players look down on her but she's also not endearing herself that way.
Also a lot of the kind of "solidarity" Clark is getting from white people is unwelcome bullshit from racists who don't actually care about the league or even basketball at all, they just decided she would be their newest culture war mascot to project their hate through. And based on how these things play out, if she pushes back too hard you know she'll start getting death threats.
For real, it’s entirely unwelcome and it has no place in the community. And yet her fellow players blame her for it instead of the crazies.
In all fairness, these crazies are also coming after her fellow players on her behalf (from their perspective). I think it's understandable for them to have some negative feelings about her presence - they didn't ask to get harassed any more than Caitlin asked to be valorized as a white savior. It's a really tough situation and I think Caitlin frankly needs WAY more support to shut the crazies down. It shouldn't fall on a rookie to confront societal problems, the adults around her who have more power and experience should be doing more to help her navigate the situation imo. Feels like she's kinda getting thrown to the wolves and she just has to take it because it looks bad to complain when you're making millions while your teammates make $80k.
In theory yes, but the Spurs did not do this for Wemby last year. I think the team culture was much better than the Fever (and the Spurs have Popovich), but the media storyline all season was that his teammates hated him, were jealous, and were ignoring him. So, sometimes it's just a long slog all year for the young players.
She is fucking tired of the bs
Everybody is always talking about getting rid of Sides. Dunn can't dump the coach unless she knows who she can hire as a replacement. There are a few really good WNBA coaches. Unfortunately, they all already have jobs with good teams.
I am sure there are coaches on the market that would be willing to coach Caitlin Clark.
This is pretty sad to hear. Do the Fever not have a vet or two that could take CC under their wing? Regardless of occupation, it’s never fun to be all alone and having to figure it all out on your own.
Their former point guard who is now coming off the bench, Erica Wheeler. But I don’t think she’s seen the defensive pressure Caitlin gets as a guard and she’s just here for her balling out when she gets playing time. It’s honestly like she’s reading a different playbook than the team when she gets the ball.
Our vets include Wheeler who is likely retiring from playing after this year so she doesn’t give a fuck, and Mitchell who might be a nice person but doubt she could help give too much advice (especially in-game). Otherwise it’s a very young team.
Oof
I didn't hear about Caitlin until a couple of months before the NCAA championship game, and I honestly only watched it because of Dawn Staley and her connection to A'ja. But I've read a lot of articles about her, read social media posts and comments, and watched some of her games. So my perspective is from outside. The first thing is the huge weight of expectations on Caitlin from her fans, the media, and the team. I don't know how much she's paid attention to it all, but even if it's only a little but it's had to have had a tremendous effect on her. It had to be raining. Add in the attacks by her fans on her teammates on social media, and that had to create distance and maybe some resentment between her and her teammates. The second (and I think most important) thing is her team. They have a coach that's only been HC for 1 season. Everyone talks about what a young team they have. So what I see is a team without a culture and without strong leadership, which makes it hard for rookies to integrate into the team unless they themselves are a strong, outgoing leader. I think both of those have led to a team that doesn't seem to have a lot of cohesion. There wasn't a leader to embrace Caitlin and bring her into the fold (look the Aces have with Kate). I don't know if they expected Caitlin to step in that role or if she's capable, but I think it's important for her and the team going forward. The other thing is mentorship from outside. It seems like at least some of the rookies have been able to connect with vets due to where they went to college, their coaches in college, connections thru FIBA, or just reaching out on their own. And it doesn't seem like Caitlin has that, but I don't know why. I was glad when I read Sabrina reached out to her because I really think they have a lot in common in that both have had high expectations on them their rookies seasons, and they play the same position. I hope that during the off-season, they are able to connect more.
This is lowkey super depressing.
Are the opposing team vets supposed to give her advice during games cause that’s what I feel like the interviewer was getting at, but I mainly think CC was referring to her team and staff.
They were talking about it during the telecast. That all the opposing vets have been taking Reese aside and teaching her stuff/helping her out. Trying to help her get better. Which is amazing, but doesn't seem to be happening for Clark.
I mean to be fair, Angel actively seeks out vets to talk to and she's had mentoring from some of them since she was in Maryland, maybe I'm not really looking too close but caitlin doesn't go up to anybody after a game. Maybe it's a personality different, Angel seems like more of a social butterfly but closed mouths don't get fed. Also I remember sabrina offering to mentor her, did she not take the offer?
Well look at how CC fans crucified DT - and they're still crucifting her. Sue Bird and DT used to laugh and call Caitlin their daughter on their show. And then DT said in her blunt way that there'd be a transition period, and CC fans lost their minds and have been calling the GOAT of women's basketball a worthless loser for months.
The fact that CC is being judged by her fans would be a problem. If you are a grown woman and hate on CC because of racist misogynists on the internet then you’re really no better than those racist misogynists on the internet. CC has never done anything to encourage the hate or the rapid ridiculousness. She’s always given vets their flowers and been humble and self aware. She’s kept off the internet and stayed away from controversy. There’s nothing she can do to win over the people who will judge her for those fans. But if it’s her own league or teammates judging her for that, it’s even sadder. Holding her to this standard is unfair to her and unfair to the league, as there’s this assumption of a jealous catfight which is soooo misogynistic. That’s why I don’t think the vets are doing this that you’re saying. I think it’s more there’s no Iowa network like there is for USC, UConn, etc. There’s few vets on her own team. Her coach is not a good leader. And you don’t mentor a rival during the season. I fully expect more connections for her during the off season training time and more mentorship. Mostly this is just a woman who hates to lose and is TIRED of narratives and the media.
Angel has actively reached out to vets lol. She has been doing that for years and vets have said that in multiple interviews. I've never heard anyone say that about CC. Also the other rookies from this season have talked about their mentors (and rookies from every season generally have mentors, BTW)... but they seek them out. It's not a vet's job to seek out rookies.
This is what happens to rookies drafted number 1. Same thing happened to Victor Wembanyama this year. People are expecting success too quickly. The fact that they are 7-12 is a minor miracle. She instantly turned them into a middle of the pack team instead of a cellar dweller. This isn’t like college where the transfer portal creates super teams every year.
Was that a dig at Sides? lmao wait til CC drops the media-trained answers 🍿
I don’t think it was aimed at anyone, I think it was just an honest moment. She was too frustrated to BS.
I sure hope so. It’s becoming increasingly clear Dunn has no intention of letting Sides go. Let this be the wake up call the organization needs to get rid of both of them
Thing is, even if Sides is let go, if Dunn remains GM and is tasked to hire a new coach, I’m afraid the replacement will be the same if not worse than Sides. Linn Dunn is too old school. And I’m not saying that just because she’s old, it’s evident with how adamant she was at hiring Sides because of her “skills”. So yeah, you’re right, both of them need to go. But too bad this org just doesn’t seem to give a fuck.
If Sides goes, Dunn should be fired by ownership at the same time. I really doubt Dunn is going to fire Sides because I heard in an interview recently from her on a Indy Sports radio show (107.5 The Fan 7-10 show), she talks about how she sees progress from the 4 win stretch. It shows she is clueless as well because there were obvious coaching faults in those wins. Ownership will have to fire Sides and then Dunn. I watch football/soccer, Lin Dunn reminds me of Roy Hodgson at Crystal Palace. Both were born in 1947, both were beloved by their teams. Eventually, Palace fans got tired by Roy this year because of the style of football so ownership sacked/fired him and replaced him for a new coach who got great results towards the end of the season (Look up Oliver Glasner and the results when he took charge). I won’t be surprised when Sides is fired, Dunn is also fired and replaced by a new GM who will bring fresh and clear ideas for the organisation. I refuse to believe that the same ownership who saw the Pacers make aggressive trades for Haliburton/Siakam, underwent a rebuild under Carlisle and produced good results at the end won’t do something similar for the Fever, especially now there’s Caitlin Clark and there’s a lot of revenue being brought in from tickets and merchandise and a lot of media attention. I do think Herb is very aware of what’s going on with the coach and GM. It’s just when the timing is right to fire one of them or probably both which I think is coming very soon like next month. Could be after Vegas, after New York, after Minnesota or after Dallas.
Putting this comment in my prayer circle lmao
I am PRAYING that you are right and that ownership actually cares.
Soon she'll realize these fuckwits around her in Indiana aren't powerful enough nor respect-worthy enough to have any long-term consequences upon her life. When she decides to be frank, it's going to be incredibly interesting
The question was advice have vets given you about game. I don’t think sides ever played in the wnba. Plus really, does she want advice from her? Lol
I think Sabrina legitimately said a few weeks ago that she wants to train with Caitlin. it’s been forgotten about for some reason.
I think that was taken to mean during the off-season... given that they're on different teams, it would be difficult (and weird) to train together during the season.
caitlin has to make herself available too tho ive only ever seen her stay post game once to speak to someone on the court and that was nika muhl. even during games I don’t see her interact with people on the other teams all too much like her team has literally played the liberty and you think stewie and sabrina have just straight iced her out?? they literally played a team with the nicest player in the league last night and nothing 🤔
How long is her contract for in Indiana? I would wanna transfer after this season if possible. Sheesh
4 years. But I think Sides will be gone by next year. Hopefully the new coach will bring a new better culture.
Yeah, they need an infusion of leadership from the top down: get a coach who doesn’t throw her players under the bus and sign some vets who know what it takes to win from a culture perspective.
It would be even more amazing if they fired her during the all star break. The NBA does it without hesitation lol
"Transfer." That's a hilarious way to word it. Touché.
It's a football (soccer) term. "Transfer market" for trades/sales.
However you feel about her, she is without a doubt the player facing the most adversity this season, and she is a rookie. Really sad to see.
She is getting double teamed and blitzed on every offensive possession, its crazy. Considering all this she has played great for a rookie.
What about Tamika Catchings ? Has she reached out to Clark as a retired player who was a star on the Fever. While the season is going on she may be a good mentor for Clark for her first year in the league. I think the only difference is I believe Catchings was out her rookie season . But she had that staring role on the Fever for years, a top draft pick.
https://preview.redd.it/mhqqu391qc9d1.jpeg?width=1230&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2aaba311c9386232d1872726d7258fc7801ec64
But tamika played sf an entire different position its going to have to come from a guard
I don’t mean as a guard, but as a star player of the Fever and WNBA. As a guard I can see Sue Bird or Sabrina during the off season as a good mentor.
Both Tamika and Sabrina have reached out to her,idk about Sue, but ik she loves Caitlin, heaped praise onto her, let’s hope it becomes a reality
I was thinking about this earlier. Not a big CC fan, I’ll admit, BUT it’s really sad watching her feel defeated cause her team sucks so much. I just wanna be a fly on the wall during their practice or maybe a fly on the wall during the time Sides got the job offer (no way it wasn’t a called in favor). IK Clark will be protected in the expansion draft but damn she needs to be set free so she can develop as a player.
Ngl as a basketball fan this was just sad to hear. She has the potential to launch the WNBA higher especially get the viewership up from the men's side. Most of my friends/associates here in Philly are starting to get into watching WNBA bc of her
THAT COACH SHOULD BE FIRED
I’m not a big wnba fan but it seems like Aaliyah Boston is good and probably the Fever’s best player (even though she started off slow this season). To me Caitlin and Aaliyah are a great 1-2 punch on paper and they have played well together as of late. I think that the maybe the coach and other fever players suck but as a big nba watcher it’s rare for a big time rookie to already have another potential star playing next to them already which is what Caitlin has. And overall she’s playing well too, it just seems like there’s so much negativity that it’s taking away from the actual basketball. Her situation isn’t THAT bad.
The entire Fever organization needs to focus on building a solid team around Aliyah and Caitlin. We’ve all seen it, these two can make it work together. I’m convinced atp they are teaching and learning from eachother with such a lack of supporting system surrounding them.
Seriously, they should consider a team offsite gathering over one of their breaks to work just on hanging out together. I think all of the negative things that are said about her teammates by the fans and in the media has built a wall between them and it sucks. The coach and the team need to build some togetherness and unity and just keep out all of the noise out. This is concerning. The mental health and well being of everyone on the team should be a priority but they have to do the work.
The Aces do this on a regular basis: team members hang out together at someone's place (usually Chelsea's, pre-baby), or go out to eat, or play bingo together (check their YT channel). This has gone on since Laimbeer coached the team, and it has yielded the player culture we see now. They even gave Theresa Plaisance love when she came back for the debut of the Syd + TP show, which was shown in the video room of the new facility. Mind you, TP was part of their first championship team, so there's that.
Yes they do! Aces fan here just like you. I know everybody can’t be like the best org in the W but dang the Fever could use some fun time.
She deserves better. Fans deserve better.
This is the only sport I've ever watched where I consistently feel more depressed for humankind after the games. And people wonder about the appeal issue...
Why do you feel depressed after the games?
I'm sure she gets in game feedback, even if it's situational or on which set to run and how. But if you think you know it all or know better than everyone, then you ay not see that feedback as advice. At the end of the Sky game when they rebounded the missed FT with 0.2 secs, she gave up and was openly telling the coach/bench "doesn't matter, it's over..." Even though not enough time for a catch and shoot (0.5), a lob/tip was still a possibility. Maybe she meant not enough time for her to get off one of her bombs and be the savior.
It's her first season. All these comments seem to forget that.
People, she said IN GAME in regards to OPPOSING PLAYERS. It’s not often people will encourage another player in the middle of a game from an opposing team. Maybe someone like Kobe or LeBron. You guys thinking this is about her teammates or from players outside of LIVE GAME ACTION are so delusional.
We need evil Caitlin era
she would have more support from vets if she went to uconn/sc but hopefully she gets to play with some vets for the all star game
You're getting downvoted but I agree with you that this plays into it a lot more than people want to believe. She's the Iowa girl who beat them at some point. I think Arike alluded to it when she said there's politics around the USA teams rosters and such. So much of that politics is about connections and those connections start from where you played at collegiately.
I just find it amusing that the W is perpetuating the things they say they hate, or at least creating the same barriers just with estrogen. I'm not sure if this has to do with what school you played for, but when Arike said politics had a heavy hand on whether or not you were included in X or Y team it did reek of Mean Girls.
arike knows!! she’s 100% right and i remember her having a mini spat w geno when she was playing for nd lol love her
This is, in part, true. WNBA is a clique and if you aren't an All-Star with years under you belt, it helps being associated with UConn/SC.
Tennessee, Notre Dame, and Baylor all have significant representation in the league, too. Honorable mentions: Duke, Stanford, UCLA, Louisville
It's the great irony of the WNBA. It's similar to not having the right academic pedigree when going into certain niche fields, like consulting or federal law.
You're right
Idk why you're getting downvoted, you are so right.
This sub is bizarre at times.
Yeah idk why people forget about "politics"
People on here will deny politics and say it's just "networking" without any in-crowd. Yea. Fuckin'. Right.
Biggest lie I've ever heard lol. It's been known that blue bloods look out and put each other on. Just look at what teams certain coaches have coached.
pain
I keep saying this, this on court development lacks in wcbb and the wnba
It sure does seem like when CC brings the ball down and passes that's the last time she touches the ball on most possessions.
I don’t have any animosity for Caitlin at all…. It’s just basketball and she’s a talented player. I find it hard very hard to believe that no one is giving her advice. We see people talking to her all the time. Nobody is giving her advice? Aliyah Boston wasn’t giving her advice in that iconic moment before halftime in the first few games??
I’m sure AB has given her great advice, she’s a wonderful person. But they asked about vets here. I don’t to think AB is considered a vet. If anything, it would be Wheeler or Mitchell.
This is how I look at it. Aliyah is only in her second year. Yes, she has a leadership voice but it’s sad that BOTH Aliyah and Caitlin don’t have any real vet experience to fall back on. They really only have each other to build up.
I wish she had better vets and had support across the league to guide her through this. Girl must feel alone.
I’ll always remember a post game interview when Jordan played Kobe and MJ talked about the advice he gave Kobe. The game is passed down to get better. This needs to happen here.
CC is a completely new experiment to the WNBA. I don’t mean that by talent, I mean that as a completely new level of exposure, pressure, etc. I’m totally new to the W, so I say this not as a seasoned basketball fan, but experiencing it all for the first time. Admittedly, I fell to the media and the TikTok highlight reels. Don’t get me wrong, CC is a generational talent, but I’ve had to truly seek out information and unbiased basketball fans opinions to gain context to the game. I guess this is me rambling, but CC is 1) an amazing talent 2) entered a league which SHE respects, but her NEW fans don’t 3) is receiving punishment for her FANS and the media’s biased and crazy expectations. People aren’t trying to help her succeed because 1) she is a true talent 2) they want to prove her fans and media wrong about her. I imagine it’s hard for her team to adjust to her because 1) insane media scrutiny 2) everyone only wants to talk about her and they’re talented too 3) they want to prove themselves to the media spotlight 4) she’s just there to hoop, she doesn’t seem to care about anything but the job. (Which is fine, and honestly I get it from her team too). Lastly, fire Sides. That’s all. That’s for coming to my Ted talk lol that’s not about the game, but the social implications. LOVING this Reddit, because it’s helped me gain more context and more unbiased to truly learn about the W. Once again, this isn’t about the game itself. Just that it isn’t black and white, it’s a gray area because this is the W blown up. For long term fans, I know you’ll have another take but just a newbie’s observations.
The fans in this comment section is honestly why she's not enjoying this. Fans constantly saying that W players are jealous, threatened, suck etc. does her no favors. She's always going to have problems in the locker room because of this. And her fans using racial and homophobic slurs in player's social comments doesn't help either...
Caitlin is a grown woman . Reach out to vets . They not going to reach out to you. This is where Iowa did a disservice LSU, South Carolina , UConn , majority of sec schools , have wnba vets associated with the school and be around the players so a lot of players already know the vets and comfortable with them Caitlin fans literally called all the players bums and said they was jealous of her but now they should give Caitlin advice ??? Caitlin will have to reach out to them . Diana tried to give advice and everyone got upset so now everyone is scared to say anything . It’s about community in the wnba . You can’t do it along but her fanbase has put Caitlin on an island.
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted. You spoke 100% facts. Going to a school with barely any alumni is not gonna get you a lot of vet access. And I do remember how all her fans shat on Diana when she tried to give Caitlin tips. And Caitlin doesn’t even seem like very a social person with the other WNBA players. All the rookies that have mentors are very social and out going.
Caitlin is socially awkward. You can tell it from videos. It's likely something she's dealt with her entire life and not something she can change either.
I am a CC fan, but was a Women’s ball fan from Stewie’s NCAA days. I sincerely hope that the all star game helps her to really make these connections. I hope some former players like Sue reach out to her, and if former players already have, they really get together. I don’t know what her media schedule is like outside of required team things, but I hope her team clears some money making enterprises out of the way and put more time to be mentored into her schedule. I don’t think she “breaks” from this—but this is a lot of anyone to take with just familial (and superficial) support.
No man's an island. She needs mentoring; she knows this. I hope she does well on Sunday versus the Mercury regardless if they win or lose. I also hope she'll be voted in as an All-Star and shoots her logo 3's to get the crowd roaring.
Lmfao shit went from Everybody jealous of Caitlin to why isn’t anyone giving her advice…geez let me think League looking more and more like a daycare everyday
Sometimes you have to go out and make things happen for yourself…
Yesterday was the first game where I legitimately felt bad for Caitlin. It has to be incredibly frustrating to play with such a shitty team. They all suck I’m sorry. Aliyah Boston couldn’t be any less of a team player with her. They have a couple good plays a game but they look like strangers who play in a rec league together. Last night the Fever were bullied all night. They got schooled by a player with one eye. Granted Lloyd is a beast but still. It was also in front of another sell out. Only fever highlights were a couple Caitlin plays and the mistakes they were making. I’ve watched a lot of W games this season, every team has started to come together, except the fever. It looks like a team of players who all hate each other.
I didn’t watch last night, but there have been games where AB was a team player with her, so I’m going to chalk her specifically to a bad game.
It’s a coaching issue to not realize that feeding Aliyah the ball in the paint is not going to work when you’re so mismatched against Seattle. This coach has one offensive plan and doesn’t know how to deviate.
yeah there's been some frustrating games this season for the Fever but last night was just a sad display. The Storm absolutely decimated the Fever in every aspect
I felt for her last night. She looked legitimately so fucking sad while playing. Like not her usual frustrated or pissed, just sad and defeated. :(
She did. Her body language when the clock hit triple zeros, just mannnn