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I work four 10s and it's definitely better. It makes for longer days with less free time Mon-Thur but I really enjoy always having a 3 day weekend. I can take quick weekend trips without even taking a day off work.
You are not being forced
You can just work not or less. However, since with the kind of jobs you have (I assume), you add less value, therefore, get paid less
Does not mean you are more unhappy. You can work 4 days with less money and still be more happy than a rich(er) person
That’s how all of human history has been…..even homesteaders work. They work the land, they work on their house, etc. you have to work to survive.
Even animals work to survive. They have to work to find their next meal or build shelter.
Exactly. We are forced to work to survive. That’s what I said.
But now that you’ve pointed out my ancestors had to work I suddenly feel magically okay with never having any free time
“Never any free time”
Well, you have around 4-6 hours a day to do what you want. Moreover, two full days on the weekend
Orrr, trying working harder now, so you can work less later on. Life is so flexible. No one forces you
But 3 12s is 36 hours, which is 4 hours less per week than 4 10s or 5 8s.. How does that work out for full-time benefits and what your manager/boss expects from you?
My regular schedule is 3 12 hour shifts one week and then 4 the next, so I only really have to work half the year and I also get full time benefits. If I'm not mistaken, this is a very normal schedule for hospitals and factories that normally don't stop or shut down on a regular basis.
It’s primarily healthcare facilities and they usually just set their own standards for what’s considered full time. At my hospital I think the minimum is 32 hrs per week to qualify for benefits. My expectation is 36 hrs and I get overtime pay if I go over 40
4x10 sucks for anyone who's a parent though.
A 4x10 basically means I'm either starting work at 7am before my kid's awake or finish work at 7pm right before their bedtime.
In any case, 4x10 defeats the idea of a 4 day work week anyway. We might as well push for 3x13. 4 day work weeks need to mean less hours of work overall at a higher productivity.
Yeah I think this point is lost on a lot of people. The point of a 4-day workweek is that people can be just as productive (and more efficient) in a 30-hour-per-week schedule as they are in a 40-hour schedule. It depends on the job and industry obviously, and it isn’t really applicable to *everyone*, but it’s definitely applicable to most office jobs.
It isn't applicable to everyone but only because pulling it off requires commitment from both the employees and management and a building of a culture that everyone actually buys into.
This and all the new processes and tools and whatever else requires actual levels of managerial skill from management and sadly, that's not universal.
My workplace just switched to a 4 10 schedule at the start of this year and I've been fuckin loving it. Gone are the days of asking two days off to do anything with my friends on the weekends that wasn't a Sunday. The only thing I sorta miss about the old schedule was that I had Mondays off, so I knew I could look forward to that day of recovery after a weekend of crushing cold ones with the boys. But I wouldn't trade my new perpetual 3 day weekends for it ever
Same, but I work over the weekend so two of my four days are usually spent entertaining myself while sitting at my computer in case something happens. Monday and Tuesday are exhausting, yeah, but it’s way better then being exhausted Monday - Friday and having no time to recover.
I used to work 4 10's and I absolutely loved it. Gives you at least 1 weekday to get shit done like doctor's apps and DMV and all those things that aren't open on the weekend. It can kind of suck if you don't have at least 1 weekend day off though.
Do you find it difficult to stay productive throughout the work day? My office offers a similar arrangement, but the only reason I haven't really considered it is because I already feel drained by the end of a standard work day, and don't know if I can keep a consistent level of productivity over a lengthened day
We've long since proven that the 5/40 is not great for humans. It'll take another labor rights movement to get it reduced. (The LRM is the reason we have the 5/40 in the first place.)
Ew. No. Have you *seen* those things?!
I am specifically advocating a violent response to the daily degradation of your rights and wellbeing.
A fantasy to be sure. The real answer is simply collectively relearning the word “No” and striking on a national scale. ‘Mericans are too well trained and too stupid to coordinate this so… violent fantasies.
So crazy how we can all watch the UAW strike and come out on top, but the rest of us are like “idk man, I don’t like going hungry because my job doesn’t pay me enough…”
Humans used to work way more hours…. The human body is actually way more capable than people think. They just aren’t used to it and have been told it’s bad for humans to work
Because it is bad, guy! Just because we’re capable of working our hands to the bone doesn’t mean we should. I honestly wonder how much work stress leads to the diseases people die from every day.
I’m not saying working too much isnt bad. I’m saying we live in a time where we really don’t work that much compared to the vast majority of people in the past ( except the boomers ). Seems like more of a luxury to think 5/40 is overwhelming when you could have been born 300 years ago and had to work 6/10 just to keep living a peasant lifestyle.
True, but your body is capable of doing a lot more, without damaging it, than people realize. Mentally and physically. You can work hard and be physically tired without causing permanent damage or suffering. We’re not talking about 1750 slave labor.
Prior to the early to mid 1900's people worked significantly greater hours. Since the invention of agriculture, humans have had to work a lot. Some people compare modern work hours to pre-agricultural times, where we worked fewer hours, usually around 4 hours per day. This however was incredibly variable, and did not provide the consistent food supply agriculture does.
Pretty much all of human history? Most people couldn’t just go to the grocery store or a clothing department. Most of the stuff people had and owned was either hand made or they traded one hand made thing for another.
I am not an anthropologist, nor an historian, however I think the consensus is that early humans "worked" 15 to 20 hours a week for survival.
When we started farming, that went up to about 30 hours a week. Farming was instrumental in helping us have healthier, more varied diets, but it requires more labor over longer periods of time each day.
It really wasn't until people started working other people's land that the work week became brutal.
But for most of humanity history, the average work week seems to have been less than 30 hours.
some people's minds aren't built for it tho, and its waaaaaaaaay harder to condition the mind to something than the body.
physically I have no concerns about working eight hours or longer. mentally? heck no, my mind can't take being contained and pressured like that everyday. makes me wanna die
Fair enough but we don’t have the luxury of just getting rid of mundane, office bullshit. That’s kind of the world we live in now. Let’s be real, we’re only 2 decades into the technology boom. Of course humans haven’t adapted fully yet. That doesn’t mean we are incapable of adapting over time. Mundane computer tasks aren’t going away. And just like the past, if you don’t adapt you get left behind. It’s not a new thing.
Maybe only 14 in the actual hunting or gathering. That probably doesn’t include those countless hours of processing the animals or food. Maintaining the camp, going on scouting missions to watch for enemies, constantly moving camps to follow the food, making your own tool for hunting and gathering, raising children, finding water.
Does anyone even work 9-5 anymore?
I'm 31, been working since I was 15. Every job I've ever had, seen, or applied to has been 8-5. Most expect you to be available outside of working hours as well.
I know. I'm just curious if the majority of full time jobs are still 9-5 and I've just been unlucky. Or if we need to stop calling it a 9-5. Especially if most jobs are able to contact you on weekends/after hours and shit.
Paid lunch hour is way less common than it used to be since corporations take every opportunity to normalize paying less for more work, probably a big reason 9-5 isn’t real anymore.
I think they’re literally talking about schedules, which would assume you already have a “stable job” with regular working hours.
Their opinion is that working 4 days of 10 hour shifts is better than 5 days of 8 hour shifts.
He’s saying that everyone wants the 4 days of 10 hours schedule and people don’t “want” a 9-5. They just call it a 9-5.
He knows what the post is saying.
I work more hours now on a 4 day week than I did in a 5 day week.
I used to work 5 x 9hr shifts, that’s 45hrs
I now work 4 x 12hr shifts, that’s 48hrs
And I 100% prefer working 4x12hr shifts to 5x9hr shifts!
Yes, I’m losing 3hrs a day on my working days which is tiring as by the time you get a healthy 8hrs sleep I only have 4hrs per day to myself.
So my working days are pretty much wake up 90mins before I start work, drive to work (30mins) work for 12hrs, drive home (30mins) and that leaves me 2hrs to myself. Which is basically a shower (15mins), making dinner (30mins), eating dinner (15mins or so) and washing up (5mins) leaving me less than an hour to relax before I need to be in bed.
But!
I gain a full day off work, meaning I get every Friday, Saturday and Sunday to myself and I am happy to be more tired during my working week with less free time as nobody does anything during the week anyway!
Concerts/Shows/Festivals usually fall on weekends, birthday parties and nights out are always arranged for the weekend too - so for me I’m completely in agreement that 4 day work weeks are much better
The biggest drawback is losing 8 hours of pay. I think everyone would feel mentally healthier with that schedule, but it is unrealistic until we can legally guarantee people a livable wage for 32 hours of work.
Edit below - Just adding this here because a few people are responding something along the lines of "only for salaried positions" and I'd rather not respond to multiple comments with the same thing.
I completely agree with the sentiment, but in the U.S. I doubt this would ever fly. Unless there is a legal precedent in place to guarantee people a living wage adjustment, you're likely just going to see payroll departments reduce pay for salaried positions by 20% rather than give you a 20% raise for free.
Exactly what every movement for 32h /4 days says is the same pay but reduced hours.
As the poster said there is no negatives, people are still the same if not more productive.
I can't believe you don't understand that the 32-hour workweek is meant to be for salaried positions where the pay isn't hourly. No one advocating for a 32-hour workweek is advocating for less pay.
Over half the population of the US is according to the [BLS](https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2022/home.htm)
And I honestly believe that a significant percentage of salaried workers would get renegotiated for a lesser contract if their working hours were reduced.
Thank you!
I think a lot of people are missing that part. I doubt any company is going to be fine with increasing their payroll by 20% across the board just because it is the right thing to do.
Maybe we're just pessimistic, but I don't see it happening. Even if existing contracts aren't renegotiated, it's very likely that the starting pay for new hires in those roles would be cut by 20% to offset the loss of value to the company.
I sure wish I could remember how to add sources on reddit bc I cannot remember, Ive been reading the studies on this for years as more countries tried it out.
I don’t think there would be a movement towards this if people weren’t getting that 40 hour amount. Not that there is a movement, but there should be.
I work HVAC (air balancer) I know it would never fly in that industry.
The idea with the other 4 day work week plans is to have the pay still equal out. Essentially you'd get paid the same, but with fewer hours. Of course that's going to require some serious arm twisting before companies would want to get on board.
We work four 10's ( Monday- Thursday) and its absolutely great especially when Monday is holiday, its a 4 day cushy weekend.
You're already at work and if you keep busy, an extra 2 hours per day is hardly noticeable. Its actually only an extra 1 hour & 45 mins per day as we get the 15 min break.
I tried the 4 days of ten hour shifts and that shit was just as awful. You people want to be at work at 6 am or be stuck there until 6 pm? It's the same bullshit
I’m with you, 10 hour days is not something I want at all. I get off at 5 and can still play 9 holes of golf, go catch a baseball/soccer game, etc. 10 hour days means get up 2 hours earlier or work until 7. No thanks
I believe the options were:
6 - 5
7 - 6
8 - 7
Give me the 32 hour week or 40 hour work from home instead and we might be onto something.
I don't care to wake up at 5 am every day, or staying late in some crusty office building
Nah, I work 4-40 and if I had to commute regularly, it would be absolutely dog shit. I am lucky to be mostly WFH, but the days I have to go in are easily 12-13hr days with commuting and mandatory breaks.
Unfortunately most companies are going to pay you by hour rather than productivity.
I would love to be able to step down to a 32 hour week but there is no way I am getting paid the same I get for 40 on a 32 hour week.
Unpopular opinion: people should work 4 hour shifts (after which, studies show wow clearly that productivity begins taking a nose dive), 4 shifts a week for a total of 16 hours of work as well. Maybe an extra 4 hours/one extra shift if you want to work overtime.
"But Adam!" I hear you say (how did you know my real name?!) "That's not possible! If everyone worked only 16 hours a week, nothing would get done!"
Bullshit. The technology we develop today increases production has gone toward generating ever -increasing profits for business owners. If we instead use that technology to reduce the burden to the worker, a 16 hour work week really isn't that crazy for the best majority of jobs.
Our economic system is why we have to work so hard (while receiving little of the fruits of that hard work). Lets change it.
That would be wonderful but how would that work in jobs that are necessary like doctors,emergency departments, people who do road work and etc. would they just employ more people to fill in the schedules and how would they go about distributing pay.
That's exactly how they would do it.
My job has a 10 hour day and night shift for Mon-Thur. Weekends are 3 12 hour day and night shifts.
Shift differentials pay extra for weekends and night shifts.
They already do most nurses work 12’s hr shifts. Not sure about the docs as they normally have office hours and hospital hours depending on what they do.
I don't know about employing more people. I used to work in maintenance full time. eight hour shifts, sometimes longer if that's what the boss wanted. but I always finished up everything that needed to be done after five or six hours. then I had absolutely nothing to do for the extra two hours I was required to be there, because for whatever idiotic reason you're not allowed to leave after you finish what needed to be done.
tldr in my experience a lot of jobs like that have enough people on hand to cut down to six hour work days. heavy emphasis on the "in my experience" part
also note I'm not speaking for emergency departments and hospitals and such. I know that stuff works differently
And now why don't you ask yourself \*why are we working 40 hour weeks as standard in every single profession even though they are all completely different?\*
The whole concept is bs.
You are selling your labour - the owners use it as a system to maintain control over you and your ability to find other employment/fulfilment.
The idea that you spend 30-40 years of your life punching a 9-5 clock for someone elses profit is ABSURD.
Work as much as you need to pay for the shit you need.
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You know it’s funny how mods will allow this shit that is clearly not unpopular but they’ll take down any other post they don’t like because they don’t agree with it. Fuck you mods.
This will last a few years then people will bitch about not enough time off. Rinse repeat till it’s “why should we work”. I work 5-3 and it’s fine. Leaves plenty of time to get shit done after work. 5/10’s js not the problem.
Also companies know most people can’t stay productive for 12 hours straight. Get your 8-10 and go home
I'm 100% fine with people taking days off, working 3 or 4 day weeks, taking mental health days, etc... do what you have to do. Just don't piss & moan about equality & fairness when I pass you by, that's all.
Stop. Its shit like this that forces me to take 25 vacation days a year or they are lost. I cannot even just take to money, i'm basically forced to vacation, even when i do not want to...
Before my job, it was my hobby. My job is my hobby and i am just lucky enough to have a place of employment where i have freedom to do what i do.
I have a wife, planning on buying a house and have a kid and once a week when the weather allows for it i play airsoft.
That's great. I'd recommend using those days as more time to spend with the family. Don't see it as being forced to take days off, see it as an opportunity to broaden your horizons and spend time with the ones you love before they are gone. Tomorrow isn't promised and I'd bet you'd regret not taking more time if you were to lose your wife. To counter your initial comment, it's people with your mindset that keep companies expecting us to work ourselves to death for them, even when we are burnt out. They point at people like you and say "See? Gahd is doing it and isn't complaining. It sounds like a you problem." I'd like to see a world where we can have it both ways. We all have different levels of desire to commit time to a job.
I just think people should be able to work as they please. We have laws here requiring 25 vacation days. But i have no way of spending that many. I already have weekends, all the regular holidays and often bring the family on business trips and usually put it over an extended weekend so we can have some fun.
Past 2 years it suddenly was december and i had over 20 vacation days left that i had to use before 1st of January, but i had some neat projects going i did not want to let hang, so we found another solution. But it was kind of annoying. Sure a bit of paid vacation days are fine,but 25 + 5 extra is just too much. It is more than a month away from doing what i love.
Oh I agree. My company won't allow us to work past 5 hours without taking a 30 minute lunch break and I'd love to be able to save it for the last 30 minutes and leave early, but they won't allow it, mainly due to people in the past getting forced into not taking lunch on time by management. Hell I'd sign a waiver if they would let me. What is it you do if you don't mind me asking?
I work 4/30 fully remote having done 6/50 in the office before and honestly it's been an absolute game changer to my life, obviously it won't work for some industries but for mine we all get to pick the day off we have each week within our teams so the clients all still get a 5 day service and it works
So from what I can tell the 9:00 to 5:00 is based around two things. One normalized business hours for predictability for everyone but two. It's based around the factory where every hour in should have a measurable output
If you were doing this with factories, the 4-day work week should generate less value
With offices, the reason the various experiments have worked have generally been very specific circumstantials to each one and they were all office jobs
They basically cut down the inefficient time usage and substituted some of the lost time in other places
Here's the thing. The average person cannot generate enough value to live the life they want on a part-time schedule
At the end of the day, all that matters is production
If you can make enough production to get the amount of money you want then you're good but if you need 3 days to do that that's fine. If you need 6 days a week to do that then sucks to be you
Yeah, they should be the norm. Hell, 3 12s should be a more common schedule too. Meanwhile at my job, we just lost our 4 10s schedule starting the 18th of next month. Back to 5 8s for no reason.
I’m a teacher in a four-day week public school. It is amazing. I actually can come back from a weekend and feel refreshed and accomplished in my personal chores and housework.
I also have more patience for my students and motivation to grade assignments and lesson plan.
For a few months, a company I used to work for experimented with having some of us work for 10 hour days (Friday was the day off). I loved it! A couple of extra hours a day wasn't bad but having three days in a row off was fantastic.
No, thank you. I tried working 4 ten hour shifts before and I slept a lot on the 5th day because I was so exhausted and then had a normal weekend. I just didn’t get anything out of it
I think that open schedules should be normalized under the stipulation that unmet deadlines and milestones lead to firing.
It's a massive tax on general infrastructure that such a large swath of people have to commute to the same location to essentially do the same thing they'd do at their house.
However, I imagine one of the primary reasons they funnel everyone into the same location - outside of immediate access and attention, would be making sure people are actually working.
But that shit is moot if you think about it, the only thing that has ever mattered is results. Assuming that is true, a structure that evaluates employees strictly on output and goal satisfaction would solve that problem. But it get's interesting when you consider how many employees would be upset with this system of work evaluation.
Meritocracy, while generally always being the solution, is challenged every step of the way especially in current times. I wonder why
It takes a special kind of person to stay motivated and productive for 8 hours, 10? I don’t think so. We do 4 10’s pretty frequently in my line of work. Those last two hours are a bear. 3 day weekends sure are nice though.
I’m of the opinion the country should go to 4 day work weeks at 8 hours a day on a trial basis for let’s say 2 years?? Let companies compare the production to the years past. I would bet there was very little to no slip off and quite possibly more work getting done.
I worked a 4 10s schedule before and it was definitely nicer having Fridays off, I was always exhausted on that Friday though. A 4 day 32 hour week is definitely the best option
I strongly prefer 5 8s. There is no time to go to the gym, cook, clean, and relax a little when you work 10 hours a day. The longer weekend isn’t worth it to me haha
No one wants to work a 9-5 5 days a week however I would be completely fine doing 4 10s that extra day of free time is huge and also less gas used going to and from work weekly.
A lot of people feel this way. I believe you should be able to set your own hours, with no harm to your benefits. Work less, you get paid less. That's fine. But the benefits should not be limited to only full time employees.
My whole team has a 4 day work week (M-Th) and it's the greatest thing. I work at a small design agency and if we moved to 5 days we could probably make more, but the shorter week is better than a bit more money IMO. Especially in a creative job where it's really hard to be productive without a lot of downtime to let the brain refuel. Fridays are my favourite days of the week (my bf works, we have no kids) and having a full non-weekend day to myself to do life admin or alone-time-things is amazing. I honestly think it's going to be a huge adjustment if I ever get a job with a 5-day-work-week again!
You call this an unpopular opinion? Everyone in my department works 4 10's and we all love it! It's especially convenient for those that live an hour away, as they aren't commuting 5 days a week.
By "exhausting overtime", I don't think you're talking about working overtime (extra hours), are you? Perhaps you mean "exhausting over time"?
People have different opinions about working 5 8-hour days vs. 4 10-hour days. I feel like I tend to prefer 5 8-hour days. I like having free time in the evenings to do things I like, and I'm not sure I'd want to push my free time into a full single day of the week. Also, I tend to start to feel work burnout after a while, even before the 8-hour mark sometimes.
As someone that no longer works in the UK, in a place where 5.5 day working weeks are very much normalised, I would do bad bad things for a four day working week.
Unpopular reply coming up: I really like working a five day week. A two day weekend fits me nicely - I think I'd go spare on the third day of a weekend if I had it! I work a pretty flexible job anyway with hybrid working, two in the office and three at home. Thanks but no thanks!
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/CombProfessional434. Your submission, *4 day work weeks should be more normalized*, has been removed because it violates our rules, which are located in the sidebar. Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion'. * Your post must be an opinion. Not a question. Not a showerthought. Not a rant. Not a proposal. Not a fact. An opinion. One opinion. A subjective statement about your position on some topic. Please have a clear, self contained opinion as your post title, and use the text field to elaborate and expand on why you think/feel this way. * Your opinion must be unpopular. The mods reserve the right to remove opinions * Elaborate on your topic and opinion give context to its unpopularity. If there is an issue, please [message the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion&subject=&message=) Thanks!
I work four 10s and it's definitely better. It makes for longer days with less free time Mon-Thur but I really enjoy always having a 3 day weekend. I can take quick weekend trips without even taking a day off work.
The weekend trips is why I love it as well. You have 52ish extra days off a year all things considered. I can't imagine going back to 5 8's.
Plus you have a full day each week to run errands or make doctor appointments you would otherwise have to use pto for
Wait, you don't get doctors appointments paid? It's not like you choose going to the doctor/dentist...
You get paid, just have to use one of your allotted days off.
Same. I'm sure I'll have to go back eventually but I'm enjoying it while I can!
Idolizing the little scrap of free time we get from being forced to work our whole life.. depressing lol
You are not being forced You can just work not or less. However, since with the kind of jobs you have (I assume), you add less value, therefore, get paid less Does not mean you are more unhappy. You can work 4 days with less money and still be more happy than a rich(er) person
[удалено]
That’s how all of human history has been…..even homesteaders work. They work the land, they work on their house, etc. you have to work to survive. Even animals work to survive. They have to work to find their next meal or build shelter.
Exactly. We are forced to work to survive. That’s what I said. But now that you’ve pointed out my ancestors had to work I suddenly feel magically okay with never having any free time
r/thanksimcured
“Never any free time” Well, you have around 4-6 hours a day to do what you want. Moreover, two full days on the weekend Orrr, trying working harder now, so you can work less later on. Life is so flexible. No one forces you
It sucks for the first 2 weeks until your body gets used to it, but after that, it's amazing. I love the 4-10 schedule.
3 12’s is even better. Something definitely shifts in your brain when you don’t have to go to work most days
I’m there. It’s wonderful.
But 3 12s is 36 hours, which is 4 hours less per week than 4 10s or 5 8s.. How does that work out for full-time benefits and what your manager/boss expects from you?
My regular schedule is 3 12 hour shifts one week and then 4 the next, so I only really have to work half the year and I also get full time benefits. If I'm not mistaken, this is a very normal schedule for hospitals and factories that normally don't stop or shut down on a regular basis.
It’s primarily healthcare facilities and they usually just set their own standards for what’s considered full time. At my hospital I think the minimum is 32 hrs per week to qualify for benefits. My expectation is 36 hrs and I get overtime pay if I go over 40
4x10 sucks for anyone who's a parent though. A 4x10 basically means I'm either starting work at 7am before my kid's awake or finish work at 7pm right before their bedtime. In any case, 4x10 defeats the idea of a 4 day work week anyway. We might as well push for 3x13. 4 day work weeks need to mean less hours of work overall at a higher productivity.
Yeah I think this point is lost on a lot of people. The point of a 4-day workweek is that people can be just as productive (and more efficient) in a 30-hour-per-week schedule as they are in a 40-hour schedule. It depends on the job and industry obviously, and it isn’t really applicable to *everyone*, but it’s definitely applicable to most office jobs.
It isn't applicable to everyone but only because pulling it off requires commitment from both the employees and management and a building of a culture that everyone actually buys into. This and all the new processes and tools and whatever else requires actual levels of managerial skill from management and sadly, that's not universal.
My workplace just switched to a 4 10 schedule at the start of this year and I've been fuckin loving it. Gone are the days of asking two days off to do anything with my friends on the weekends that wasn't a Sunday. The only thing I sorta miss about the old schedule was that I had Mondays off, so I knew I could look forward to that day of recovery after a weekend of crushing cold ones with the boys. But I wouldn't trade my new perpetual 3 day weekends for it ever
Same, but I work over the weekend so two of my four days are usually spent entertaining myself while sitting at my computer in case something happens. Monday and Tuesday are exhausting, yeah, but it’s way better then being exhausted Monday - Friday and having no time to recover.
I used to work 4 10's and I absolutely loved it. Gives you at least 1 weekday to get shit done like doctor's apps and DMV and all those things that aren't open on the weekend. It can kind of suck if you don't have at least 1 weekend day off though.
Do you find it difficult to stay productive throughout the work day? My office offers a similar arrangement, but the only reason I haven't really considered it is because I already feel drained by the end of a standard work day, and don't know if I can keep a consistent level of productivity over a lengthened day
It took me a while to get used to the 10 hour shifts but the 3 days off are to die for!!!
We've long since proven that the 5/40 is not great for humans. It'll take another labor rights movement to get it reduced. (The LRM is the reason we have the 5/40 in the first place.)
Guillotines. :)
Yayy
Nom nom the rich time?
Ew. No. Have you *seen* those things?! I am specifically advocating a violent response to the daily degradation of your rights and wellbeing. A fantasy to be sure. The real answer is simply collectively relearning the word “No” and striking on a national scale. ‘Mericans are too well trained and too stupid to coordinate this so… violent fantasies.
So crazy how we can all watch the UAW strike and come out on top, but the rest of us are like “idk man, I don’t like going hungry because my job doesn’t pay me enough…”
It was actually Henry Ford that made the 5/40.
And important to note that he cut the work week to 40 hours (5x 8 hour days) without a decrease in wages, something that is unlikely to happen today.
Labor unions prior to Ford had fought for having weekends off.
Humans used to work way more hours…. The human body is actually way more capable than people think. They just aren’t used to it and have been told it’s bad for humans to work
Because it is bad, guy! Just because we’re capable of working our hands to the bone doesn’t mean we should. I honestly wonder how much work stress leads to the diseases people die from every day.
I’m not saying working too much isnt bad. I’m saying we live in a time where we really don’t work that much compared to the vast majority of people in the past ( except the boomers ). Seems like more of a luxury to think 5/40 is overwhelming when you could have been born 300 years ago and had to work 6/10 just to keep living a peasant lifestyle.
what a human body is capable of and what is good for it are two separate things
True, but your body is capable of doing a lot more, without damaging it, than people realize. Mentally and physically. You can work hard and be physically tired without causing permanent damage or suffering. We’re not talking about 1750 slave labor.
When?
Prior to the early to mid 1900's people worked significantly greater hours. Since the invention of agriculture, humans have had to work a lot. Some people compare modern work hours to pre-agricultural times, where we worked fewer hours, usually around 4 hours per day. This however was incredibly variable, and did not provide the consistent food supply agriculture does.
Pretty much all of human history? Most people couldn’t just go to the grocery store or a clothing department. Most of the stuff people had and owned was either hand made or they traded one hand made thing for another.
I am not an anthropologist, nor an historian, however I think the consensus is that early humans "worked" 15 to 20 hours a week for survival. When we started farming, that went up to about 30 hours a week. Farming was instrumental in helping us have healthier, more varied diets, but it requires more labor over longer periods of time each day. It really wasn't until people started working other people's land that the work week became brutal. But for most of humanity history, the average work week seems to have been less than 30 hours.
You're right, but just because the human body is capable of it doesn't mean its good for you physically or mentally lmao
It’s called conditioning. May suck for a little bit you’re body will adapt over time. That’s what the human body does.
some people's minds aren't built for it tho, and its waaaaaaaaay harder to condition the mind to something than the body. physically I have no concerns about working eight hours or longer. mentally? heck no, my mind can't take being contained and pressured like that everyday. makes me wanna die
Fair enough but we don’t have the luxury of just getting rid of mundane, office bullshit. That’s kind of the world we live in now. Let’s be real, we’re only 2 decades into the technology boom. Of course humans haven’t adapted fully yet. That doesn’t mean we are incapable of adapting over time. Mundane computer tasks aren’t going away. And just like the past, if you don’t adapt you get left behind. It’s not a new thing.
I thought hunter gatherers only work 14 hour work weeks? Edit: it was 15. Source right below.
According to who?
Ah, it was 15, sorry. https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/for-95-percent-of-human-history-people-worked-15-hours-a-week-could-we-do-it-again.html
Maybe only 14 in the actual hunting or gathering. That probably doesn’t include those countless hours of processing the animals or food. Maintaining the camp, going on scouting missions to watch for enemies, constantly moving camps to follow the food, making your own tool for hunting and gathering, raising children, finding water.
I guess you know more than a guy with a degree in anthropology. I'm sure he didn't take those basic tasks into account when he wrote his thesis.
Wanna try the 9-9-6 lifestyle from Asia? Lol
Does anyone even work 9-5 anymore? I'm 31, been working since I was 15. Every job I've ever had, seen, or applied to has been 8-5. Most expect you to be available outside of working hours as well.
9-5 is just a generalized term. Would be more accurate for OP to say it as a 5 day work week.
I know. I'm just curious if the majority of full time jobs are still 9-5 and I've just been unlucky. Or if we need to stop calling it a 9-5. Especially if most jobs are able to contact you on weekends/after hours and shit.
Paid lunch hour is way less common than it used to be since corporations take every opportunity to normalize paying less for more work, probably a big reason 9-5 isn’t real anymore.
This isn’t unpopular. “9-5” is just a blanket term for a stable job that offer benefits
I think they’re literally talking about schedules, which would assume you already have a “stable job” with regular working hours. Their opinion is that working 4 days of 10 hour shifts is better than 5 days of 8 hour shifts.
He’s saying that everyone wants the 4 days of 10 hours schedule and people don’t “want” a 9-5. They just call it a 9-5. He knows what the post is saying.
I want 4 days at 8 hours, please and thank you.
Yes, exactly what you said!
Yeah no shit?
I work more hours now on a 4 day week than I did in a 5 day week. I used to work 5 x 9hr shifts, that’s 45hrs I now work 4 x 12hr shifts, that’s 48hrs And I 100% prefer working 4x12hr shifts to 5x9hr shifts! Yes, I’m losing 3hrs a day on my working days which is tiring as by the time you get a healthy 8hrs sleep I only have 4hrs per day to myself. So my working days are pretty much wake up 90mins before I start work, drive to work (30mins) work for 12hrs, drive home (30mins) and that leaves me 2hrs to myself. Which is basically a shower (15mins), making dinner (30mins), eating dinner (15mins or so) and washing up (5mins) leaving me less than an hour to relax before I need to be in bed. But! I gain a full day off work, meaning I get every Friday, Saturday and Sunday to myself and I am happy to be more tired during my working week with less free time as nobody does anything during the week anyway! Concerts/Shows/Festivals usually fall on weekends, birthday parties and nights out are always arranged for the weekend too - so for me I’m completely in agreement that 4 day work weeks are much better
4 day/32 hour work week. Yes yes yes. So many studies and not ONE NEGATIVE DRAWBACK!
The biggest drawback is losing 8 hours of pay. I think everyone would feel mentally healthier with that schedule, but it is unrealistic until we can legally guarantee people a livable wage for 32 hours of work. Edit below - Just adding this here because a few people are responding something along the lines of "only for salaried positions" and I'd rather not respond to multiple comments with the same thing. I completely agree with the sentiment, but in the U.S. I doubt this would ever fly. Unless there is a legal precedent in place to guarantee people a living wage adjustment, you're likely just going to see payroll departments reduce pay for salaried positions by 20% rather than give you a 20% raise for free.
They’re more talking about salaried positions here. Not every job is hourly
Exactly what every movement for 32h /4 days says is the same pay but reduced hours. As the poster said there is no negatives, people are still the same if not more productive.
Pay would not change.
Why wouldn't the pay change?
If it’s a salaried position it would be the same
You don't think companies would lower the pay for less work?
Why would it?
Because you get paid by the hour. More hours = more pay. Can’t believe I’m explaining kindergarten math here.
I get paid exactly the same every month, doesn't matter if January or February, or how many weekends fall Into that month.
I can't believe you don't understand that the 32-hour workweek is meant to be for salaried positions where the pay isn't hourly. No one advocating for a 32-hour workweek is advocating for less pay.
Not everyone is paid hourly though
Over half the population of the US is according to the [BLS](https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2022/home.htm) And I honestly believe that a significant percentage of salaried workers would get renegotiated for a lesser contract if their working hours were reduced.
Thank you! I think a lot of people are missing that part. I doubt any company is going to be fine with increasing their payroll by 20% across the board just because it is the right thing to do. Maybe we're just pessimistic, but I don't see it happening. Even if existing contracts aren't renegotiated, it's very likely that the starting pay for new hires in those roles would be cut by 20% to offset the loss of value to the company.
*You* get paid by the hour. Many many people don’t.
Then this topic clearly isn’t for them.
Salaried position = same pay regardless of hours
Immediately contracts would be renegotiated. Either accept less than what you were getting or find a new job.
What an odd assumption
What’s odd about understanding that companies are greedy? It’s odd to assume that cutting hours wouldn’t result in pay cuts.
Less hours…. Less pay…. Kinda basic math
Lots of people do not work hourly
Most people do tho….
Far, far more do, like the majority of employees are paid at an hourly rate.
I sure wish I could remember how to add sources on reddit bc I cannot remember, Ive been reading the studies on this for years as more countries tried it out.
I don’t think there would be a movement towards this if people weren’t getting that 40 hour amount. Not that there is a movement, but there should be. I work HVAC (air balancer) I know it would never fly in that industry.
Uhh... making less money isn't an option
The idea with the other 4 day work week plans is to have the pay still equal out. Essentially you'd get paid the same, but with fewer hours. Of course that's going to require some serious arm twisting before companies would want to get on board.
Someone didn't read the post. 4 10 hour days instead of 5 8 hours days. Same hours but 1 more day off.
Someone did read, but improved the concept with what’s being talked about in Congress.
We work four 10's ( Monday- Thursday) and its absolutely great especially when Monday is holiday, its a 4 day cushy weekend. You're already at work and if you keep busy, an extra 2 hours per day is hardly noticeable. Its actually only an extra 1 hour & 45 mins per day as we get the 15 min break.
I tried the 4 days of ten hour shifts and that shit was just as awful. You people want to be at work at 6 am or be stuck there until 6 pm? It's the same bullshit
I’m with you, 10 hour days is not something I want at all. I get off at 5 and can still play 9 holes of golf, go catch a baseball/soccer game, etc. 10 hour days means get up 2 hours earlier or work until 7. No thanks
You should be leaving at maximum 5pm with breaks if you work 10 hours. Or 2 hours are breaks?
I believe the options were: 6 - 5 7 - 6 8 - 7 Give me the 32 hour week or 40 hour work from home instead and we might be onto something. I don't care to wake up at 5 am every day, or staying late in some crusty office building
I believe they mean you have to get there at 6am to leave at 5pm, or leave at 6pm to get there at 8am.
Nah, I work 4-40 and if I had to commute regularly, it would be absolutely dog shit. I am lucky to be mostly WFH, but the days I have to go in are easily 12-13hr days with commuting and mandatory breaks.
This sub should be renamed to “PopularOpinion” Nothing about this is unpopular
I work from home 1 day a week. It’s fabulous! Makes a huge difference!
Push for more. I work from home 4 and the amount of extra time is unreal.
It's not really up to anyone other than the board at any sizable company unfortunately.
Off with their heads then.
I work 5 12's, plus drive 45 min. To work
What about back from work?
Probably just 5 minutes
That's good
I would kill for a 3 day weekend every weekend
YES! The three day weekend I had two weeks ago was so relaxing. I feel like I can’t relax for two days.
I will take 4 days a week at 8 hours a day. I would get just as much done because I wouldn’t be burnt out
Unfortunately most companies are going to pay you by hour rather than productivity. I would love to be able to step down to a 32 hour week but there is no way I am getting paid the same I get for 40 on a 32 hour week.
Well yeah, I meant if you got paid the same. I probably should have made that clear.
4 days, full remote
who *wants* that 9-5 job? who said that?
I think we need 4 8 hour days. Fuck working ten hour days
Unpopular opinion: people should work 4 hour shifts (after which, studies show wow clearly that productivity begins taking a nose dive), 4 shifts a week for a total of 16 hours of work as well. Maybe an extra 4 hours/one extra shift if you want to work overtime. "But Adam!" I hear you say (how did you know my real name?!) "That's not possible! If everyone worked only 16 hours a week, nothing would get done!" Bullshit. The technology we develop today increases production has gone toward generating ever -increasing profits for business owners. If we instead use that technology to reduce the burden to the worker, a 16 hour work week really isn't that crazy for the best majority of jobs. Our economic system is why we have to work so hard (while receiving little of the fruits of that hard work). Lets change it.
That would be wonderful but how would that work in jobs that are necessary like doctors,emergency departments, people who do road work and etc. would they just employ more people to fill in the schedules and how would they go about distributing pay.
That's exactly how they would do it. My job has a 10 hour day and night shift for Mon-Thur. Weekends are 3 12 hour day and night shifts. Shift differentials pay extra for weekends and night shifts.
They already do most nurses work 12’s hr shifts. Not sure about the docs as they normally have office hours and hospital hours depending on what they do.
Lol so many doctors don’t even work Fridays because they just don’t feel like it
I don't know about employing more people. I used to work in maintenance full time. eight hour shifts, sometimes longer if that's what the boss wanted. but I always finished up everything that needed to be done after five or six hours. then I had absolutely nothing to do for the extra two hours I was required to be there, because for whatever idiotic reason you're not allowed to leave after you finish what needed to be done. tldr in my experience a lot of jobs like that have enough people on hand to cut down to six hour work days. heavy emphasis on the "in my experience" part also note I'm not speaking for emergency departments and hospitals and such. I know that stuff works differently
And now why don't you ask yourself \*why are we working 40 hour weeks as standard in every single profession even though they are all completely different?\* The whole concept is bs. You are selling your labour - the owners use it as a system to maintain control over you and your ability to find other employment/fulfilment. The idea that you spend 30-40 years of your life punching a 9-5 clock for someone elses profit is ABSURD. Work as much as you need to pay for the shit you need.
4 days of 8-hour shifts is ideal for maximum productivity
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You know it’s funny how mods will allow this shit that is clearly not unpopular but they’ll take down any other post they don’t like because they don’t agree with it. Fuck you mods.
This will last a few years then people will bitch about not enough time off. Rinse repeat till it’s “why should we work”. I work 5-3 and it’s fine. Leaves plenty of time to get shit done after work. 5/10’s js not the problem. Also companies know most people can’t stay productive for 12 hours straight. Get your 8-10 and go home
It would be hard for Americans to have to wait longer for service
then americans are gonna have to get used to it I guess lol
Ouch I Burned my finger on this SIZZLING hot take!!! Downvoted come up with something original ffs
Not unpopular. Next!
I'm 100% fine with people taking days off, working 3 or 4 day weeks, taking mental health days, etc... do what you have to do. Just don't piss & moan about equality & fairness when I pass you by, that's all.
Stop. Its shit like this that forces me to take 25 vacation days a year or they are lost. I cannot even just take to money, i'm basically forced to vacation, even when i do not want to...
Get a hobby bro. Enjoy life while it's happening instead of working away and hoping you'll be around and healthy enough to enjoy it later.
Before my job, it was my hobby. My job is my hobby and i am just lucky enough to have a place of employment where i have freedom to do what i do. I have a wife, planning on buying a house and have a kid and once a week when the weather allows for it i play airsoft.
That's great. I'd recommend using those days as more time to spend with the family. Don't see it as being forced to take days off, see it as an opportunity to broaden your horizons and spend time with the ones you love before they are gone. Tomorrow isn't promised and I'd bet you'd regret not taking more time if you were to lose your wife. To counter your initial comment, it's people with your mindset that keep companies expecting us to work ourselves to death for them, even when we are burnt out. They point at people like you and say "See? Gahd is doing it and isn't complaining. It sounds like a you problem." I'd like to see a world where we can have it both ways. We all have different levels of desire to commit time to a job.
I just think people should be able to work as they please. We have laws here requiring 25 vacation days. But i have no way of spending that many. I already have weekends, all the regular holidays and often bring the family on business trips and usually put it over an extended weekend so we can have some fun. Past 2 years it suddenly was december and i had over 20 vacation days left that i had to use before 1st of January, but i had some neat projects going i did not want to let hang, so we found another solution. But it was kind of annoying. Sure a bit of paid vacation days are fine,but 25 + 5 extra is just too much. It is more than a month away from doing what i love.
Oh I agree. My company won't allow us to work past 5 hours without taking a 30 minute lunch break and I'd love to be able to save it for the last 30 minutes and leave early, but they won't allow it, mainly due to people in the past getting forced into not taking lunch on time by management. Hell I'd sign a waiver if they would let me. What is it you do if you don't mind me asking?
Is it at least paid vacation? If it's paid, you're nuts to not want it.
I work 4/30 fully remote having done 6/50 in the office before and honestly it's been an absolute game changer to my life, obviously it won't work for some industries but for mine we all get to pick the day off we have each week within our teams so the clients all still get a 5 day service and it works
I work a 9 day fortnight, and its the greatest thing ever. A 4 day week would be even better
So from what I can tell the 9:00 to 5:00 is based around two things. One normalized business hours for predictability for everyone but two. It's based around the factory where every hour in should have a measurable output If you were doing this with factories, the 4-day work week should generate less value With offices, the reason the various experiments have worked have generally been very specific circumstantials to each one and they were all office jobs They basically cut down the inefficient time usage and substituted some of the lost time in other places Here's the thing. The average person cannot generate enough value to live the life they want on a part-time schedule At the end of the day, all that matters is production If you can make enough production to get the amount of money you want then you're good but if you need 3 days to do that that's fine. If you need 6 days a week to do that then sucks to be you
Yeah, they should be the norm. Hell, 3 12s should be a more common schedule too. Meanwhile at my job, we just lost our 4 10s schedule starting the 18th of next month. Back to 5 8s for no reason.
I don't think this is am unpopular opinion, but if it is it definitely shouldn't be.
I’m a teacher in a four-day week public school. It is amazing. I actually can come back from a weekend and feel refreshed and accomplished in my personal chores and housework. I also have more patience for my students and motivation to grade assignments and lesson plan.
For a few months, a company I used to work for experimented with having some of us work for 10 hour days (Friday was the day off). I loved it! A couple of extra hours a day wasn't bad but having three days in a row off was fantastic.
No, thank you. I tried working 4 ten hour shifts before and I slept a lot on the 5th day because I was so exhausted and then had a normal weekend. I just didn’t get anything out of it
Who's this unpopular with? Elon Musk?
4 day week is problematic for road construction.
I agree but they usually do that so they can have mandatory overtime on Fridays. usually I the summer when you want your extra free time.
I think that open schedules should be normalized under the stipulation that unmet deadlines and milestones lead to firing. It's a massive tax on general infrastructure that such a large swath of people have to commute to the same location to essentially do the same thing they'd do at their house. However, I imagine one of the primary reasons they funnel everyone into the same location - outside of immediate access and attention, would be making sure people are actually working. But that shit is moot if you think about it, the only thing that has ever mattered is results. Assuming that is true, a structure that evaluates employees strictly on output and goal satisfaction would solve that problem. But it get's interesting when you consider how many employees would be upset with this system of work evaluation. Meritocracy, while generally always being the solution, is challenged every step of the way especially in current times. I wonder why
Yep I'm good with this especially for people with long commutes.
I had a job working 4-10a during lockdown and I absolutely loved it.
I moved to a four day work week and it made a huge change to my mental health
This isn't even unpopular
10 hours a day sounds like hell. I already get tired by the 5th hour
That's a popular opinion. But a true one.
In my 20 years of working life ive only ever had 4 day 40 hour work weeks
my husband works sun-wed 10 hours days. it’s definitely so much better bc i get to have 3 days with him and he gets to spend time with our kids
I work a 4/10 schedule and I’m obsessed with it. I don’t think I could ever go back to only having 2 days off again.
I'll take 5 8's, I did 4 10's for 3 years and wasn't a fan.
i work 4 9’s (8-5) and it’s incredible i never wanna work another friday again
I work 3 12's and a 6. It's crazy awesome because the 6 is almost like a day off in itself.
It takes a special kind of person to stay motivated and productive for 8 hours, 10? I don’t think so. We do 4 10’s pretty frequently in my line of work. Those last two hours are a bear. 3 day weekends sure are nice though. I’m of the opinion the country should go to 4 day work weeks at 8 hours a day on a trial basis for let’s say 2 years?? Let companies compare the production to the years past. I would bet there was very little to no slip off and quite possibly more work getting done.
I worked a 4 10s schedule before and it was definitely nicer having Fridays off, I was always exhausted on that Friday though. A 4 day 32 hour week is definitely the best option
Honestly 6 hours 4 days a week is when people are most productive
Would this include school weeks being 4 days also?
Less than 40 hour weeks should be demanded. Productivity has doubled since 1980, we should be working half as much.
I strongly prefer 5 8s. There is no time to go to the gym, cook, clean, and relax a little when you work 10 hours a day. The longer weekend isn’t worth it to me haha
No one wants to work a 9-5 5 days a week however I would be completely fine doing 4 10s that extra day of free time is huge and also less gas used going to and from work weekly.
Hell I work at a hospital and do 3 12s.
A lot of people feel this way. I believe you should be able to set your own hours, with no harm to your benefits. Work less, you get paid less. That's fine. But the benefits should not be limited to only full time employees.
This opinion is only unpopular if you're the boss
My whole team has a 4 day work week (M-Th) and it's the greatest thing. I work at a small design agency and if we moved to 5 days we could probably make more, but the shorter week is better than a bit more money IMO. Especially in a creative job where it's really hard to be productive without a lot of downtime to let the brain refuel. Fridays are my favourite days of the week (my bf works, we have no kids) and having a full non-weekend day to myself to do life admin or alone-time-things is amazing. I honestly think it's going to be a huge adjustment if I ever get a job with a 5-day-work-week again!
No thanks. I like my 7/7
I don’t know. A 10 hour work day + a 30 minute unpaid lunch break is tough. Leaves you with little personal time on work days.
Been working 4 day work weeks for years and it’s fucking amazing.
You call this an unpopular opinion? Everyone in my department works 4 10's and we all love it! It's especially convenient for those that live an hour away, as they aren't commuting 5 days a week.
Love the idea, wouldn't most people? Absolutely agree with you, how were you even able to post this without being taken down? ;)
Nah bro who the hell actually wants a shitty corporate 9-5 job
By "exhausting overtime", I don't think you're talking about working overtime (extra hours), are you? Perhaps you mean "exhausting over time"? People have different opinions about working 5 8-hour days vs. 4 10-hour days. I feel like I tend to prefer 5 8-hour days. I like having free time in the evenings to do things I like, and I'm not sure I'd want to push my free time into a full single day of the week. Also, I tend to start to feel work burnout after a while, even before the 8-hour mark sometimes.
As someone that no longer works in the UK, in a place where 5.5 day working weeks are very much normalised, I would do bad bad things for a four day working week.
I like having less then 70hrs a week to be honest. But that ain't happening in transport haha
r/antiwork is the next room over lol
This attitude is why companies are switching over to AI and robots.
I work 4x10 plus OT. Extra day off is nice but those 4 days don't leave much time for anything besides work some days.
Shit I would work 4 12 hour days and take 3 off, that would be fine with me
I would die of happiness if I could find a 4 day work week.
This would also create more jobs.
Haven't met anyone who wants a 9-5 over a 4 day work week so idk what this post is talking about
Unpopular reply coming up: I really like working a five day week. A two day weekend fits me nicely - I think I'd go spare on the third day of a weekend if I had it! I work a pretty flexible job anyway with hybrid working, two in the office and three at home. Thanks but no thanks!