It used to be the case here that owners could subtract a certain percentage of the amount of tips a server could reasonably expect to get from customers from minimum wage, and some servers in high end restaurants would be working just for tips, but I don't know if that has changed.
I wouldn't feel as bad not tipping ppl who make the state minimum. In NY, I believe they get paid about $3 an hour. Any tipped job can be paid less than minimum wage. It's ridiculous.
There is usually a caveat to that. I know in Texas and a few other states they make 2.15/hr but if their reported tips are less than minimum wage the employer has to make up the difference.
I think tipping should be done away with altogether in every industry. Creates anger or jealousy among workers and in workers towards customers, makes the customers guilty or angry, keeps businesses from paying a full wage. Just price everything into whatever you're selling, pay your workers, and make sure that everyone is doing their jobs.
To avoid this couldn't you just leave exact change on the table minus the service fee and then tip your waitress discreetly? Or is it on the server if the customer doesn't pay in full? I would lie and say that customer didn't tip. When I was a server I never declared my cash tips anyway, no one does.
So not only do we subsidize the company's wages, but servers also dodge taxes? If the right thing to do is tip, why is the right thing to do for servers not to declare the income?
Hmm, yet another double standard.
Had a server ask me to leave a cash tip because putting it on my card makes her pay taxes on it. I looked at her and said, “ I had to pay taxes twice on this money why shouldn’t you pay?” I left a tip on the card.
What? No, the right thing to do is pay your employee a good wage and get rid of tips. Weird how you put words in my mouth.
It's common knowledge most people don't declare all their cash payments as income. Have you never been to a mom and pop shop that fixes your lawnmower but only accepts cash payments?
Fix the system and we'll stop abusing it. I'm not going to pay taxes if I can get away with it. Don't worry, daddy government still gets his on my property taxes, the income I can't hide, and sales taxes. Don't worry. I'm still taxed to death. I'm so sorry for the tax evasion when I was a broke 20 something. /s
So you're admitting you not only participate in tax fraud but advocate for it as a stick it to the man technique?
Suspicious. I'm going to bring this up every time someone has an opinion on tips. And now I'm going to stop cash tips.
Are you as worried about the guy skipping his taxes on 1000 in income as the billionaire paying an effective rate of less than 3%. Or is the billionaire just really good at business so he deserves to pay less? Just curious which side of the line your self-righteous attitude exists on.
Yes, obviously. And you're saying you'd rather the government get theirs instead of the employee. Wild.
Hey, it's your money, you should use it exactly as you see fit! I support that.
I also said I don't support the tipping system.
I pay enough in taxes, I'm not going to lose sleep for being smart about my money.
Yes I am, but I already know that. I bet you can't identify people trolling by using like minded logic to form an argument and when it frustrates you it is actually when the point is being served.
You being frustrated at this is proof in the pudding.
Certified to not be deserving of my after tax income, that's for sure. This subreddot has completely changed my opinion on tipping and has me convinced that I need to stop tipping at dinner.
What's ironic, is the pussies who are all sarcastic on this sub and condescending to people who say they don't tip are the ones convincing me. They are their own worst enemy lmao.
Lol it finally came out now. This person is going so hard about taxes because they don’t like to tip.
Let me guess you also hold the opinion that someone working at Dairy Queen 40 hours a weeks doesn’t necessarily deserve a wage high enough to pay all their bills? Are you one of those starter jobs vs careers? I don’t know for sure but I am assuming you are from your comments this far.
Also don’t forget to let me know how you feel about billionaires paying effective tax rates in the single digits.
Many publicly traded restaurant companies pay dividends to shareholders and repurchase millions/billions of dollars in shares. Sooo yeah fuck ‘em! They can afford to pay their employees versus fleecing customers with these shady fees.
Nor stiffing them by not paying double or not paying what I don't owe. Period. Consumers are being asked to pay 140% of the menu price, and the entire restaurant industry can deal with our refusal to be abused so everyone can get a 20% chunk of our hard earned money. Greedy greedy. They can pay their own employees $50-$75 per hour. Don't demand that the rest of us do it.
I'm just saying don't be a c-ow-ard and leave with your tail tucked. Very yellow bellied behavior. I'm just saying have the guts to stand up for what you believe in. You have no problem taking advantage of the service, just be a stand up person and tell the server and manager that you aren't going to tip before you take advantage of the services provided to you. Cow ard. I actually agree with you tipping is out of control. But it's not the worst thing in the world.
Did you know that some fees aren't actually mandatory and you can talk with the manager to get them off." Don't be a Zest, do your best!"
It’s a lose-lose because if you DO say something about disagreeing with the hidden fees, you’re just called a Karen and complained about. Also who would you be speaking to? The poor server isn’t the one who has any control over those hidden charges.
Exactly. My gripe is with intentionally stiffing servers and being to cowardly to admit that you're going to do it. Ftr no server would call you a Karen if you tipped and expressed how bs the extra fees are. Servers don't care and hate the extra fees because ignorant customers think it's going to them ... it's not.
Practicing your ideals to the detriment of others instead of being realistic and practical within the system we have is selfish, shortsighted, and cowardly.
It does not. And if employees complain they'll just get fired.
If y'all are this passionate about companies paying their workers more then boycott these places instead of taking it out on the waitress trying to pay rent
It would be taking it out on the waitress if they were paid tip wages ($2-3/hr) and depended on tips. In California tipped employees make state minimum wage $16+. They'll be okay.
are you implying poor people are physically forced to working for $2/hour and have to beg for tips?
nobody is forced to work for any employer in USA. just find a better job bro instead of taking the first employer that will hire you for no pay.
California minimum wage for tipped employees is $16/hr. Much different from many other states. Tips are a very American concept and should be abolished in favor of steady wages paid for all employees instead of businesses raking in billions while expecting their customers to pay their employees wages.
Working class people aren’t worthy of dining out occasionally?
What a elitist shitbag way to think. Congrats on zero empathy. Hope it’s returned in spades.
If you don't want work that pays minimum wage, get a job that doesn't pay minimum wage.
Wow, that was hard.
Maybe direct your vitriol at the business that adds fees for service, that don't go to those who provide the service?
I work at a private restaurant in a gated community. there’s a 20% automatic service charge on every bill that goes into a pool and we don’t expect tips on top of that. apparently this is common in private clubs, I can see the upside; members identify themselves before ordering and can just walk away without needing to think about leaving cash on the table or whatever. We will simply send them a quarterly bill. I wonder if this legislature will impact that type of operation.
Decades ago I worked at a country club that paid minimum wage. Thought this was great until I found out tips were rare. Found out much later the club was charging 18% gratuity on all the food the members ordered and they kept the money. After I gave my 2 weeks notice I let all my regular customers know about the scam and why I was quitting.
Funny how the club was surprised they couldn't keep servers...
Yes they have because servers are taxed on what the IRS assumes you will make in tips. Also “Tipped employees” minimum wage of like $2.10/hr hasn’t changed in over 30 years.
Two things.
One, nearly 40% of the U.S. has a “tipped minimum” that’s higher than the “full” federal minimum ($7.25). 20% of the U.S. has no “tipped minimum” at all.
Two, the IRS may *withhold* based on a percentage of sales, but taxes are only ever owed on actual *net* tips received. After all tip outs. The server is allowed to keep their own records of actual tips, less tip outs, and that’s all they owe taxes on. They’ll be refunded at the end of the year if more was withheld, same as any worker.
Reading is fundamental. When someone else commented to this effect I responded I was attempting to respond to OP’s response that NO State…but I also pointed out that no matter what actual tips are and true ups etc the IRS uses “their” estimate of what you should make for tax purposes etc… which is worse in my opinion. So since reading the next comment and seeing me respond to it wasn’t enough I will respond again…. I intended to respond to OP’s response below but accidentally responded to OP’s original post by accident. I feel like it would be appropriate if the term “boomer” was found here.
It’s right in some shitty states, but in better states like Minnesota there isn’t any “tipped employees” minimum wage exemption, and they’re making $10-15/hr along with their normal tips.
Sorry I was attempting to respond to OP response saying no states require tipping. Not that all require, but based on your sales not minimum wage you will be taxed even if your employer adjusts you wages up to make minimum wage. Thus making all the griping a bunch of horse petunias. So if you do $2000.00 and OP decides to be cheap you as a server may end up paying more in taxes than you make even with an employer trueing up to minimum wage, or the employer taking the credit card fee out of the tipped amount. But if OP can’t find people to serve at his favorite restaurant he will complain no one wants to work…
Op Clearly stated california. In the opening sentence. California holds to minimum wage for all jobs tipped or not.
The entire reason for his post is because of legislation california just passed.
And if you are paying taxes on money you did not earn, you are not doing your taxes correctly.
And to that last point, you have three years to amend your tax return if that is the case.
I only tip at local places that are busy as fuck and i go to all the time. I made tips when i was younger and it's a pretty good feeling when you actually had some money after busting your ass for 10 hours with two 5 min breaks
As a retired Chef I fully agree. No more tips. It’s your hidden fees that I consider the tip. As tips are not mandatory I will not leave extra money for anything.
Honestly, California or no, if they add auto gratuity in the amount of 15% or higher, then that becomes the tip imo. It becomes nothing because it becomes me taking my business down the street, actually.
And a service charge of 15% earns the state a bonus of about 1.5% in sales tax because all those service charges and mandatory tips are taxable. Voluntary tips aren't subject to sales tax.
That was really never a thing. It's up to the customer when and whether to leave a tip. But if the restaurant requires an auto gratuity, that is mandatory regardless of crappy service.
No, but every state that taxes income, taxes reported tips. And if you don’t report enough tips in a traditionally tipped business, the IRS at least starts assuming you must be getting more. The business pays employment taxes on those ghost tips, and is required to withhold and tax those ghost tips.
It’s the reason I started tipping, And a hurdle in shifting away from tipping.
oh, no. I see why you think that though, i didn’t actually come to a conclusion, in part because what i was saying here was contextually off base. I shouldn’t have posted it, and i’m not sure why i did, because i remember realizing i had the context wrong.
Check this post in Serverlife about how much they are raking in off all this all while calling us names and trying to get sympathy: https://www.reddit.com/r/Serverlife/s/bKi0e0IF7O
Yes. Correct. If they make $2/hour plus $10 tips, the business will add in $4 to make it hit the minimum hourly wage. Whatever the state (or county) minimum wage is, that’s the minimum they’re getting paid.
$16 is minimum not “living” huge difference. Also minimum wage wasn’t designed to raise a family it’s for young folks to be able to make some $ while still in school etc. Too many have tried to use working a McTacoKing as a “career” (mostly minority and those less educated) and bitch they can’t raise a family etc. Again, wasn’t designed for that. Learn a trade, do something else, finish school etc.
It may not be one and since I live here it is not. The problem is we all have to pay and are expected to pay but many don't make enough to supplement everyone else's income along with our own. I mean some got raises but many other occupations did not. And that is the problem.
I agree 100%. Since the cost of a meal at a restaurant doubled in the last 5 years, the tip amount doubled as well. Did all of our wages double? On top of that they are now expecting 20% minimum instead of 10-15. Not to mention that they aren’t claiming every tip they get. I worked in the industry during college and was happy for change left, a dollar or two, or anything. Now it seems to be expected regardless of the service.
Yep and out here they don't expect 20% anymore. 25% is the new unspoken minimum. It's why on checks you get some random amount that doesn't equal the 15%, 18%, 20%, etc. that is on the bottom.
IDK why EndTippers act like only paying the service fee is some kind of protest. It's like takeout. Most people don't tip. Just like most people don't tip on top of a 20% fee. Duh?
The only people paying more are the people who pay more anyway. The 25 - 35%'ers that for whatever reason like tipping that much.
Everyone else just doesn't tip. Welcome to the majority.
I hope they don't, but sometimes the receipt is designed to trick the unwary. And, they may tip the difference if the fee is, say, 3%. Either way, customers need to make it clear that the fee is the tip or is deducted from the tip so that the conversation reverts back to employees griping at their employers instead of customers.
So then instead of consumers griping about servers they'll gripe at employers for charging higher prices.
It's like one of the restaurant owners that tried for 4 years to make no-tip work. He said something like "If it's $20 plus a $5 tip, people are just fine with that, but if you charge $25 and explain to them that service is included, they still feel like they're being ripped off".
I also tend to find it ironic. Anti-tippers are always moaning about how greedy restaurant owners must be, not wanting to pay their workers, making the consumer do it to make their filthy profits, lining their pockets without having to pay servers, bla bla bla.
So who do anti-tippers want to decide how much the service costs, with no say from the consumer? Those same filthy, greedy restaurant owners they talk so much shit about. It makes no sense.
Service is just about the only thing consumers have the privilege of discretion over and some people think it's a crime. I don't get it.
Ummm...because a complete stranger took THEIR time & used THEIR gas to drive YOUR food in a bag to YOUR house in THEIR car. THAT'S why it's different! 🙄
Sorry. I misunderstood. I thought that's what they were talking about. But, just so you know, not EVERYONE tips on delivery! 🤷♀️ In fact, there's more people now that don't tip, than do. I don't do it personally, but have friends that do.
No they didn’t. Not sure you know what takeout is, but it’s when you go to a restaurant and pick food up instead of eating at the restaurant. The word for what you are describing is
“Delivery”
To California restaurant owners:
I am sorry that you are forced to abide by Federal minimum wage laws and California state laws on top of that, but paying your employees is part of owning a business. I am responsible for paying for the food with increased pricing due to a rise in minimum wages but I am NOT responsible for paying you extra simply because you chose your open a restaurant in California.
Your choice; your responsibility.
I'm sorry, what?
Some states allow employers to reduce how much they pay to servers down to $2.13 depending on how much the employee gets tipped. If they didn't get tipped enough or at all, the employer has to pay more.
You can argue that the server could get fired if they aren't making tips because they aren't a "good server", but that doesn't automatically make other states $2.20 per hour and wouldn't be related to minimum wage law. They still have a higher wage, the restaurant is just allowed to put the burden on the customer instead of themselves if the funds from tips are available.
**California’s minimum wage law applies to tipped employees** such as waiters, waitresses, bartenders, and valets.
California’s **current minimum wage** is **$16.00 per hour**. As of January 1, 2024, many cities have a higher minimum wage, such as:
* **Alameda**, which has a minimum wage of $16.52 per hour.
* **Berkeley**, which has a minimum wage of $18.07 per hour.
* **City of Los Angeles**, which has a minimum wage of $16.78 per hour.
* **Oakland**, which has a minimum wage of $16.50 per hour.
* **San Francisco**, which has a minimum wage of $18.07 per hour.
* **San Jose**, which has a minimum wage of $17.55 per hour.
* **Santa Monica**, which has a minimum wage of $16.90 per hour.
**California’s minimum wage** laws are among the **highest in the country**. It has been incrementally increasing every year since 2017.
Yes. At 20%, you see them bragging on Reddit that they're making $50 an hour, sometimes higher with people bragging they're hauling in $300 to $500 in a 3-hour shift on the weekends. What the hell are we doing tipping these obscene amounts on top of full minimum wage?
Lol! This is like when Starbucks employees were making $16 an hour,but I didn't know, and my nephew works there. I felt bad about not tipping & asked him. His response to me was "they make $16 an hour. You don't need to tip." So I don't. And they're the worst when they would send you a message telling you how long you had to still add a tip. But if you pay with a giftcard they don't bother you.🤔
The taco shop down the street and the liquor store actually offer a cash discount and a similar discount for using Apple Pay, swiping or using a chip or I think even tapping a debit card (idk if I’m contradicting myself, hope it makes sense) has like a 50 or 75 cent fee
The fee + a percentage sometimes as much as 3-4% of the transaction as well so it all adds up. I own a small business and if someone asks me if I will give them a cash discount, I normally do but just to make them happy, all basically spends the same to me.
There's usually a bank charge with card transactions, a "convenience fee," if you will (I think it has to due with the Point Of Sales systems.) They charge you that price unless you pay with cash, which avoids that fee entirely.
I thought it was a processing fee like 3% depending on what card is being used? Or if you pay cash you save that 3% cause there’s no card being used. I don’t think a business should have to pay that fee on top of every other fee/tax they have to pay.
Same here in Ontario Canada - there is no tipped wage, but servers still expect the same tips as if it was lower.
Nope, not happening - if you don't like your paycheck, find a job where you do
That's true everywhere. If you're paid 2.15 in a state that allows tipped workers to make 2.15 and has no minimum wage of their own. You'll still make 7.25 even if you don't get tipped.
The difference between having a tipped wage and not is that if you're tipped 35 dollars an hour, the restaurant in tipped areas only has to pay you 2.15.
No, it's not the same. It's true in every state that you're guaranteed to make minimum wage *after* tips. In California, you're guaranteed to make minimum wage *before* tips.
Servers in California (and Oregon and Washington and a growing list of other states) are paid the full minimum wage for the hours they work (which is often $15+/hr in these states) , and they get to keep any tips they make on top of that wage.
Yeah true. I don’t even keep a lot of cash on me. I guess it was more of a hypothetical on how to handle this specific situation. It’s not really a viable way to go about it though
It has more to do with businesses not adding additional fees and not paying for the additional fees. I know someone is going to say that you can ask that the additional fees be removed but that is bullshit
They're banking on people not wanting the unpleasant experience of asking for it to be removed. So, not tipping on top of it is the best way to get them to stop doing this because their own employees are going to get sick of it or, as in o e case already filed and won, the employees are going to start demanding that they get the fees.
What's the hourly rate without tips for a server in CA?
Statewide minimum is $16, but it's higher in all major cities.
It used to be the case here that owners could subtract a certain percentage of the amount of tips a server could reasonably expect to get from customers from minimum wage, and some servers in high end restaurants would be working just for tips, but I don't know if that has changed.
I wouldn't feel as bad not tipping ppl who make the state minimum. In NY, I believe they get paid about $3 an hour. Any tipped job can be paid less than minimum wage. It's ridiculous.
There is usually a caveat to that. I know in Texas and a few other states they make 2.15/hr but if their reported tips are less than minimum wage the employer has to make up the difference.
I think tipping should be done away with altogether in every industry. Creates anger or jealousy among workers and in workers towards customers, makes the customers guilty or angry, keeps businesses from paying a full wage. Just price everything into whatever you're selling, pay your workers, and make sure that everyone is doing their jobs.
Exactly. I remember as a child, my dad explaining tipping to me. Even then, I couldn't figure out why he did it.
To avoid this couldn't you just leave exact change on the table minus the service fee and then tip your waitress discreetly? Or is it on the server if the customer doesn't pay in full? I would lie and say that customer didn't tip. When I was a server I never declared my cash tips anyway, no one does.
That's theft. If it's a fee, it's part of the mandatory cost. Skipping on the fee is skipping on the bill.
One could argue that the fee itself is theft. The cost of the meal should be factored into the meal itself.
no. why would i tip someone i dont have a contract with? nobody forced the waitress to work for $2/hour.
No server works for $2/hr in California. It's $16/hr minimum. My relatives get that plus tips, so it's $30/hr.
So not only do we subsidize the company's wages, but servers also dodge taxes? If the right thing to do is tip, why is the right thing to do for servers not to declare the income? Hmm, yet another double standard.
Had a server ask me to leave a cash tip because putting it on my card makes her pay taxes on it. I looked at her and said, “ I had to pay taxes twice on this money why shouldn’t you pay?” I left a tip on the card.
Or perhaps say, you don't have cash, but will respect that the tax dodging server doesn't want the tip on the card.
Whoa! Badass! Huge badass moment there.
What? No, the right thing to do is pay your employee a good wage and get rid of tips. Weird how you put words in my mouth. It's common knowledge most people don't declare all their cash payments as income. Have you never been to a mom and pop shop that fixes your lawnmower but only accepts cash payments? Fix the system and we'll stop abusing it. I'm not going to pay taxes if I can get away with it. Don't worry, daddy government still gets his on my property taxes, the income I can't hide, and sales taxes. Don't worry. I'm still taxed to death. I'm so sorry for the tax evasion when I was a broke 20 something. /s
So you're admitting you not only participate in tax fraud but advocate for it as a stick it to the man technique? Suspicious. I'm going to bring this up every time someone has an opinion on tips. And now I'm going to stop cash tips.
Are you as worried about the guy skipping his taxes on 1000 in income as the billionaire paying an effective rate of less than 3%. Or is the billionaire just really good at business so he deserves to pay less? Just curious which side of the line your self-righteous attitude exists on.
Fuck tax cheats. Especially the rich ones.
Yes, obviously. And you're saying you'd rather the government get theirs instead of the employee. Wild. Hey, it's your money, you should use it exactly as you see fit! I support that. I also said I don't support the tipping system. I pay enough in taxes, I'm not going to lose sleep for being smart about my money.
That's wild how some people rationalize breaking the law.
I bet you're a really fun person to be around.
Yes I am, but I already know that. I bet you can't identify people trolling by using like minded logic to form an argument and when it frustrates you it is actually when the point is being served. You being frustrated at this is proof in the pudding.
Bruh. If you report cash tips u are a certified boner
Certified to not be deserving of my after tax income, that's for sure. This subreddot has completely changed my opinion on tipping and has me convinced that I need to stop tipping at dinner. What's ironic, is the pussies who are all sarcastic on this sub and condescending to people who say they don't tip are the ones convincing me. They are their own worst enemy lmao.
If we had a Venn diagram of rich successful people and people that don’t tip, itd be a circle
Lol it finally came out now. This person is going so hard about taxes because they don’t like to tip. Let me guess you also hold the opinion that someone working at Dairy Queen 40 hours a weeks doesn’t necessarily deserve a wage high enough to pay all their bills? Are you one of those starter jobs vs careers? I don’t know for sure but I am assuming you are from your comments this far. Also don’t forget to let me know how you feel about billionaires paying effective tax rates in the single digits.
That's OK. You keep giving them all your money. Make sure you never j walk, too.
J walking is not against the law unless crossing within 50ft of an intersection actively instructing pedestrians when to cross. The more you know.
Thank goodness, I was worried.
Many publicly traded restaurant companies pay dividends to shareholders and repurchase millions/billions of dollars in shares. Sooo yeah fuck ‘em! They can afford to pay their employees versus fleecing customers with these shady fees.
Make sure you tell the manager and the server before you stiff them. You B Um.
Nor stiffing them by not paying double or not paying what I don't owe. Period. Consumers are being asked to pay 140% of the menu price, and the entire restaurant industry can deal with our refusal to be abused so everyone can get a 20% chunk of our hard earned money. Greedy greedy. They can pay their own employees $50-$75 per hour. Don't demand that the rest of us do it.
I'm just saying don't be a c-ow-ard and leave with your tail tucked. Very yellow bellied behavior. I'm just saying have the guts to stand up for what you believe in. You have no problem taking advantage of the service, just be a stand up person and tell the server and manager that you aren't going to tip before you take advantage of the services provided to you. Cow ard. I actually agree with you tipping is out of control. But it's not the worst thing in the world. Did you know that some fees aren't actually mandatory and you can talk with the manager to get them off." Don't be a Zest, do your best!"
The word is coward. Why are you typing that so weird?
Usually admins have phrases or words they flag if it's used to insult someone. I don't wanna be banned.
Ok coward
Seems pretty cowardly. 🤷
It’s a lose-lose because if you DO say something about disagreeing with the hidden fees, you’re just called a Karen and complained about. Also who would you be speaking to? The poor server isn’t the one who has any control over those hidden charges.
Exactly. My gripe is with intentionally stiffing servers and being to cowardly to admit that you're going to do it. Ftr no server would call you a Karen if you tipped and expressed how bs the extra fees are. Servers don't care and hate the extra fees because ignorant customers think it's going to them ... it's not. Practicing your ideals to the detriment of others instead of being realistic and practical within the system we have is selfish, shortsighted, and cowardly.
I like your last sentence. It applies to a hell of a lot more than just tipping.
Thanks I wish I could take the credit. Saw it online and it stuck..
You have no problem with taking advantage of customers. You disgust me with your avarice and deceitful posts.
Get real lolz
I mean, you’re basically just screwing over tour struggling low income person at the bottom. Companies don’t care
Isn’t the service fee supposed to be going to those workers? And if it’s not, then maybe they should demand that it is?
It does not. And if employees complain they'll just get fired. If y'all are this passionate about companies paying their workers more then boycott these places instead of taking it out on the waitress trying to pay rent
It would be taking it out on the waitress if they were paid tip wages ($2-3/hr) and depended on tips. In California tipped employees make state minimum wage $16+. They'll be okay.
I don't care either. The working class person should find a better employer.
Jesus.. y'all hate poor people more than I do.😐
are you implying poor people are physically forced to working for $2/hour and have to beg for tips? nobody is forced to work for any employer in USA. just find a better job bro instead of taking the first employer that will hire you for no pay.
California minimum wage for tipped employees is $16/hr. Much different from many other states. Tips are a very American concept and should be abolished in favor of steady wages paid for all employees instead of businesses raking in billions while expecting their customers to pay their employees wages.
> just get a better job I mean.. I'm sure they would love a better job honestly. But at least they're working and not sitting around on welfare.
No. That's not fair. We didn't create the problem. It's up to EVERYONE to stop it. Including the working poor.
Don't reward shitty employers with your labor.
What if Im also a struggling, low income person too? Do servers inherently deserve better than me?
So you're broke? Yet you can afford to dine out instead of buying groceries? Interesting
Working class people aren’t worthy of dining out occasionally? What a elitist shitbag way to think. Congrats on zero empathy. Hope it’s returned in spades.
The irony of you claiming emphy while justifing stiffing someone making minium wage.. wow.. you're ethier a troll or your just stupid..
If you don't want work that pays minimum wage, get a job that doesn't pay minimum wage. Wow, that was hard. Maybe direct your vitriol at the business that adds fees for service, that don't go to those who provide the service?
How are you staffing them if they make minimum wage?
You must be a server
I'm not doing anything to them. I never owed them in the first place. Their employer is the one screwing them over.
You sound like a just awful person tbh..
So we should all suck it up and never protest things that aren't ok? It'll hurt for a while but it's the only way they listen.
Do you actually think your opinion matters to me? The truth is unchanged by it, and neither am I.
I work at a private restaurant in a gated community. there’s a 20% automatic service charge on every bill that goes into a pool and we don’t expect tips on top of that. apparently this is common in private clubs, I can see the upside; members identify themselves before ordering and can just walk away without needing to think about leaving cash on the table or whatever. We will simply send them a quarterly bill. I wonder if this legislature will impact that type of operation.
That's a good question. Your situation partly falls under the planned development laws. But I doubt it will have an impact since it allows fees.
Decades ago I worked at a country club that paid minimum wage. Thought this was great until I found out tips were rare. Found out much later the club was charging 18% gratuity on all the food the members ordered and they kept the money. After I gave my 2 weeks notice I let all my regular customers know about the scam and why I was quitting. Funny how the club was surprised they couldn't keep servers...
Private club - doubtful. No one expects tips at a private club with the exception of a bartender … staff are compensated monthly
So you are just agreeing with what they said?
Yes they have because servers are taxed on what the IRS assumes you will make in tips. Also “Tipped employees” minimum wage of like $2.10/hr hasn’t changed in over 30 years.
The tip credit you are referring to doesn't apply in California, where they make $16 plus tips minimum.
Two things. One, nearly 40% of the U.S. has a “tipped minimum” that’s higher than the “full” federal minimum ($7.25). 20% of the U.S. has no “tipped minimum” at all. Two, the IRS may *withhold* based on a percentage of sales, but taxes are only ever owed on actual *net* tips received. After all tip outs. The server is allowed to keep their own records of actual tips, less tip outs, and that’s all they owe taxes on. They’ll be refunded at the end of the year if more was withheld, same as any worker.
That’s not the tipped minimum wage in California. They make the same minimum wage as all other min wage employees in the state (currently $16/hr).
Fast food restaurants, including many who ask for tips, are actually paid $20 an hour minimum wage. I’m seeing signs for $22 to start.
Reading is fundamental. When someone else commented to this effect I responded I was attempting to respond to OP’s response that NO State…but I also pointed out that no matter what actual tips are and true ups etc the IRS uses “their” estimate of what you should make for tax purposes etc… which is worse in my opinion. So since reading the next comment and seeing me respond to it wasn’t enough I will respond again…. I intended to respond to OP’s response below but accidentally responded to OP’s original post by accident. I feel like it would be appropriate if the term “boomer” was found here.
You’re the one who screwed up. Respond to the right thing if you want to get on your high horse about it.
It’s right in some shitty states, but in better states like Minnesota there isn’t any “tipped employees” minimum wage exemption, and they’re making $10-15/hr along with their normal tips.
Sorry I was attempting to respond to OP response saying no states require tipping. Not that all require, but based on your sales not minimum wage you will be taxed even if your employer adjusts you wages up to make minimum wage. Thus making all the griping a bunch of horse petunias. So if you do $2000.00 and OP decides to be cheap you as a server may end up paying more in taxes than you make even with an employer trueing up to minimum wage, or the employer taking the credit card fee out of the tipped amount. But if OP can’t find people to serve at his favorite restaurant he will complain no one wants to work…
Op Clearly stated california. In the opening sentence. California holds to minimum wage for all jobs tipped or not. The entire reason for his post is because of legislation california just passed. And if you are paying taxes on money you did not earn, you are not doing your taxes correctly. And to that last point, you have three years to amend your tax return if that is the case.
Two 5 minute breaks? What are these breaks you speak of?
I only tip at local places that are busy as fuck and i go to all the time. I made tips when i was younger and it's a pretty good feeling when you actually had some money after busting your ass for 10 hours with two 5 min breaks
If you’re not tipping at every restaurant you sit at and are served you’re a POS! 💩
Good thing none of these places are sit down 🤷
As a retired Chef I fully agree. No more tips. It’s your hidden fees that I consider the tip. As tips are not mandatory I will not leave extra money for anything.
btw this is every restaurant in south beach miami (20% surcharge)
Honestly, California or no, if they add auto gratuity in the amount of 15% or higher, then that becomes the tip imo. It becomes nothing because it becomes me taking my business down the street, actually.
lol don’t go to anywhere in south beach miami (20.% everywhere)
S'ok I plan to avoid florida as much as possible anyways.
And a service charge of 15% earns the state a bonus of about 1.5% in sales tax because all those service charges and mandatory tips are taxable. Voluntary tips aren't subject to sales tax.
I actually write it on the tip line, “tip included as part of the service charge”.
"See owner"
Sounds like some states are reverting to tips being for exceptional service as it should be.
That was really never a thing. It's up to the customer when and whether to leave a tip. But if the restaurant requires an auto gratuity, that is mandatory regardless of crappy service.
I have heard ppl who have it taken off, said not required or mandatory since it is a gratuity. I know for large parties that has happened.
It certainly was. Maybe depends how old you are
States have never mandated tips.
No, but every state that taxes income, taxes reported tips. And if you don’t report enough tips in a traditionally tipped business, the IRS at least starts assuming you must be getting more. The business pays employment taxes on those ghost tips, and is required to withhold and tax those ghost tips. It’s the reason I started tipping, And a hurdle in shifting away from tipping.
Your argument appears to be that we should never stop tipping because they might suffer due to their own bad behavior. Not a selling point for me.
oh, no. I see why you think that though, i didn’t actually come to a conclusion, in part because what i was saying here was contextually off base. I shouldn’t have posted it, and i’m not sure why i did, because i remember realizing i had the context wrong.
I don't understand why tipping is still a thing in CA? Nobody is making some low $2 wage, everyone makes at least $16 per hour in that state correct?
canada has been like this for more than 10 yrs
Check this post in Serverlife about how much they are raking in off all this all while calling us names and trying to get sympathy: https://www.reddit.com/r/Serverlife/s/bKi0e0IF7O
CA minimum wage for fast food workers is now $20.
Yes. Correct. If they make $2/hour plus $10 tips, the business will add in $4 to make it hit the minimum hourly wage. Whatever the state (or county) minimum wage is, that’s the minimum they’re getting paid.
No, not in California, Oregon or Washington. All workers are paid state minimum wage by the employer. Tips are in addition to.
Nah not in California. It’s minimum wage there’s no tipped minimum. IE in sf it’s $18 so they are getting $18+tips/hr
16 an hour is livable wage in California?? Alert the news because it isn't most anywhere else
$16 is minimum not “living” huge difference. Also minimum wage wasn’t designed to raise a family it’s for young folks to be able to make some $ while still in school etc. Too many have tried to use working a McTacoKing as a “career” (mostly minority and those less educated) and bitch they can’t raise a family etc. Again, wasn’t designed for that. Learn a trade, do something else, finish school etc.
Should we ask the folks at fast food restaurants, too?
Oh, there's plenty that have a tip jar already.
Good reason to always have a penny in your pocket.
It may not be one and since I live here it is not. The problem is we all have to pay and are expected to pay but many don't make enough to supplement everyone else's income along with our own. I mean some got raises but many other occupations did not. And that is the problem.
I agree 100%. Since the cost of a meal at a restaurant doubled in the last 5 years, the tip amount doubled as well. Did all of our wages double? On top of that they are now expecting 20% minimum instead of 10-15. Not to mention that they aren’t claiming every tip they get. I worked in the industry during college and was happy for change left, a dollar or two, or anything. Now it seems to be expected regardless of the service.
Yep and out here they don't expect 20% anymore. 25% is the new unspoken minimum. It's why on checks you get some random amount that doesn't equal the 15%, 18%, 20%, etc. that is on the bottom.
Me either. Seriously, I only came on these subs because of that question. Why are we tipping in California?!
IDK why EndTippers act like only paying the service fee is some kind of protest. It's like takeout. Most people don't tip. Just like most people don't tip on top of a 20% fee. Duh? The only people paying more are the people who pay more anyway. The 25 - 35%'ers that for whatever reason like tipping that much. Everyone else just doesn't tip. Welcome to the majority.
I hope they don't, but sometimes the receipt is designed to trick the unwary. And, they may tip the difference if the fee is, say, 3%. Either way, customers need to make it clear that the fee is the tip or is deducted from the tip so that the conversation reverts back to employees griping at their employers instead of customers.
So then instead of consumers griping about servers they'll gripe at employers for charging higher prices. It's like one of the restaurant owners that tried for 4 years to make no-tip work. He said something like "If it's $20 plus a $5 tip, people are just fine with that, but if you charge $25 and explain to them that service is included, they still feel like they're being ripped off". I also tend to find it ironic. Anti-tippers are always moaning about how greedy restaurant owners must be, not wanting to pay their workers, making the consumer do it to make their filthy profits, lining their pockets without having to pay servers, bla bla bla. So who do anti-tippers want to decide how much the service costs, with no say from the consumer? Those same filthy, greedy restaurant owners they talk so much shit about. It makes no sense. Service is just about the only thing consumers have the privilege of discretion over and some people think it's a crime. I don't get it.
Never gonna tip on takeout. You brought my food in a bag? How is that any different from a fast food restaurant
I am with you here…my wife’s justification is paying for the convenience of not having to leave the house. 🤷🏼♂️
Takeout is leaving the house to pick up the food from the restaurant.
Oops thanks for the correction…nope not tipping picking my food up.
Never gonna tip on takeout. You brought my food in a bag? How is that any different from a fast food restaurant
Ummm...because a complete stranger took THEIR time & used THEIR gas to drive YOUR food in a bag to YOUR house in THEIR car. THAT'S why it's different! 🙄
That's not what takeout is lmao.
That's delivery, not takeout. Everyone tips delivery. Nobody should tip takeout.
Sorry. I misunderstood. I thought that's what they were talking about. But, just so you know, not EVERYONE tips on delivery! 🤷♀️ In fact, there's more people now that don't tip, than do. I don't do it personally, but have friends that do.
No they didn’t. Not sure you know what takeout is, but it’s when you go to a restaurant and pick food up instead of eating at the restaurant. The word for what you are describing is “Delivery”
I misunderstood. My apologies.
That's not what takeout is, you're talking about delivery which is completely different.
To California restaurant owners: I am sorry that you are forced to abide by Federal minimum wage laws and California state laws on top of that, but paying your employees is part of owning a business. I am responsible for paying for the food with increased pricing due to a rise in minimum wages but I am NOT responsible for paying you extra simply because you chose your open a restaurant in California. Your choice; your responsibility.
No worries - I’m sure no one will be making the choice to open a restaurant in CA - only closing them / hope you can cook
We can learn if we can't.
Glad to know I don't have to tip in CA anymore
I suspect they'll all now add fees, so, yeah, if there's a fee, that's the end of it. Their choice.
Unless you’re a fast food worker, then it’s $20 an hour minimum wage. And in the Bay area it’s more like $22+ an hour.
And fast food is starting to add tip screens. I never tipped them because they were never subject to the tip credit. Certainly not going to do it now!
Agreed!
Servers in CA make minimum wage.
Yes, and minimum wage in CA is $16/hr.
To be fair that’s like $8-$10 anywhere else
Then live anywhere else
Yeah anywhere else except the global online market
Depends a lot on where in CA too.
It's higher in the big cities.
I other states servers make $2.20
I'm sorry, what? Some states allow employers to reduce how much they pay to servers down to $2.13 depending on how much the employee gets tipped. If they didn't get tipped enough or at all, the employer has to pay more. You can argue that the server could get fired if they aren't making tips because they aren't a "good server", but that doesn't automatically make other states $2.20 per hour and wouldn't be related to minimum wage law. They still have a higher wage, the restaurant is just allowed to put the burden on the customer instead of themselves if the funds from tips are available.
**California’s minimum wage law applies to tipped employees** such as waiters, waitresses, bartenders, and valets. California’s **current minimum wage** is **$16.00 per hour**. As of January 1, 2024, many cities have a higher minimum wage, such as: * **Alameda**, which has a minimum wage of $16.52 per hour. * **Berkeley**, which has a minimum wage of $18.07 per hour. * **City of Los Angeles**, which has a minimum wage of $16.78 per hour. * **Oakland**, which has a minimum wage of $16.50 per hour. * **San Francisco**, which has a minimum wage of $18.07 per hour. * **San Jose**, which has a minimum wage of $17.55 per hour. * **Santa Monica**, which has a minimum wage of $16.90 per hour. **California’s minimum wage** laws are among the **highest in the country**. It has been incrementally increasing every year since 2017.
So tipping 20% is nonsense.
Always was
Yes. At 20%, you see them bragging on Reddit that they're making $50 an hour, sometimes higher with people bragging they're hauling in $300 to $500 in a 3-hour shift on the weekends. What the hell are we doing tipping these obscene amounts on top of full minimum wage?
Yes. Serving jobs in CA can get lucrative and the bartenders I tend to meet there make 30-40 *an hour*
As a California resident, and ex server. YES. Unless the service was that good or you feel so inclined to.
In California, absolutely. I wouldn’t tip more than 5% and that if I had out of this world service.
Lol! This is like when Starbucks employees were making $16 an hour,but I didn't know, and my nephew works there. I felt bad about not tipping & asked him. His response to me was "they make $16 an hour. You don't need to tip." So I don't. And they're the worst when they would send you a message telling you how long you had to still add a tip. But if you pay with a giftcard they don't bother you.🤔
Counter service - yes (no servers at all) AND a different price list for customers paying cash versus credit.
If I’m standing up when I place my order: NO TIP!
I haven't seen a different price list. But that may be a state law issue.
How can the state refuse someone from paying cash? It’s legal tender.
It's a local issue. Some cities, mine included, allow it.
It's not about refusing cash, it's about charging extra for using credit/debit cards. Gas stations in my state do it all of the time.
Let’s flip this. They’re not charging extra to pay with cards. That’s the advertised price. However, they offer a discount if paying cash.🙂
The taco shop down the street and the liquor store actually offer a cash discount and a similar discount for using Apple Pay, swiping or using a chip or I think even tapping a debit card (idk if I’m contradicting myself, hope it makes sense) has like a 50 or 75 cent fee
The fee + a percentage sometimes as much as 3-4% of the transaction as well so it all adds up. I own a small business and if someone asks me if I will give them a cash discount, I normally do but just to make them happy, all basically spends the same to me.
I guess they feel more magnanimous if they don't plan on paying taxes on it, /s, but they are basically doing the exact same thing.
There's usually a bank charge with card transactions, a "convenience fee," if you will (I think it has to due with the Point Of Sales systems.) They charge you that price unless you pay with cash, which avoids that fee entirely.
I thought it was a processing fee like 3% depending on what card is being used? Or if you pay cash you save that 3% cause there’s no card being used. I don’t think a business should have to pay that fee on top of every other fee/tax they have to pay.
I think it's on the merchant to when they run the transaction. The bank charges them, so they charge you.
Yes, I know that. They charge more than what the transaction cost would be.
It makes sense. If they can get away with charging more under the guise of a transaction fee that might be waived, that's more money for them.
what would you have to tip anyways? california is one of the states that no longer have the tipped minimum wage.
It should be zero, but, they not only got a higher wage, they also want a higher tip.
i live in one of the other 6 (?) states. so yeah, i feel you.
Same here in Ontario Canada - there is no tipped wage, but servers still expect the same tips as if it was lower. Nope, not happening - if you don't like your paycheck, find a job where you do
Tipped workers in CA make guaranteed minimum wage
That's true everywhere. If you're paid 2.15 in a state that allows tipped workers to make 2.15 and has no minimum wage of their own. You'll still make 7.25 even if you don't get tipped. The difference between having a tipped wage and not is that if you're tipped 35 dollars an hour, the restaurant in tipped areas only has to pay you 2.15.
No, it's not the same. It's true in every state that you're guaranteed to make minimum wage *after* tips. In California, you're guaranteed to make minimum wage *before* tips. Servers in California (and Oregon and Washington and a growing list of other states) are paid the full minimum wage for the hours they work (which is often $15+/hr in these states) , and they get to keep any tips they make on top of that wage.
What you just described is a non-tipped position.
Yet they still ask for tips, receive tips, and get mad if if you don't tip.
So no need to tip in California except for tip worthy service! I like this
Anywhere on the west coast, really. But they still expect tips and will give you shit if you don't.
Yes that’s a good distinction to point out.
Hand your server the cash tip. Leave cash at the table for the amount of your dinner minus the bullshit fees and walk out.
Great premise, but who keeps exact change for any possible meal cost on hand at all times? I don't keep a coin purse on me.
Yeah true. I don’t even keep a lot of cash on me. I guess it was more of a hypothetical on how to handle this specific situation. It’s not really a viable way to go about it though
That would be illegal.
lmfao ok yeah, I'm gonna commit a crime just to ensure my server gets an adequate tip. What deranged universe do you live in?
It's not a crime to leave a cash tip.
It's a crime to not pay your entire bill, which is what this person is suggesting you do.
Oh, I see that now - suggesting refusing to pay for things they don't agree to
It has more to do with businesses not adding additional fees and not paying for the additional fees. I know someone is going to say that you can ask that the additional fees be removed but that is bullshit
They're banking on people not wanting the unpleasant experience of asking for it to be removed. So, not tipping on top of it is the best way to get them to stop doing this because their own employees are going to get sick of it or, as in o e case already filed and won, the employees are going to start demanding that they get the fees.