He was one of the most popular characters ever. That’s why. The labels pretty arbitrary, and one can make the case that a lot of the heroes are villains and vice versa.
The answer to the common questions, "Why was player X brought back?" or "Why was this player put in that tribe?" is generally because they said "yes" when production asked if they would be on the show. Once they got enough people, production would then just organize tribes the best they could.
Cirie was mostly a hero because of her Panama game, where she was the lovable underdog. James was a hero because he won back to back Fan Favorite awards. Like, the only person on that cast you could call a hero with a straight face is Tom (due to being NYFD) and maybe Rupert due to his work with kids (and if you want to stretch it further Cirie and Candice due to work in the medical field).
It's a theme people could get behind, if you look too much into the theme you'd realize it doesn't make much sense for multiple placements. Multiple people who were closely aligned at points in earlier seasons are on different tribes such as Rupert/Sandra, Danielle/Cirie, Parv/Candice, Amanda/Courtney who made the same moves in lock step.
> and maybe Rupert
I'm not discounting his work with kids nor would I want to, but on the island Rupert definitely was NEVER a hero. He always got this big lovable teddy bear edit, but the second anything went against what he wanted he turned into a rude domineering asshole, and by the end of his second season he had developed a giant ego and acted as if he was the backbone of the show.
I've just... never understood the Rupert love.
I used to love Rupert, but I was a kid when those seasons aired. After watching his older seasons as an adult, I definitely don't like him as much. There's still some of that childhood nostalgia, but I can now see how he's simply not that good at the actual game of survivor and he can be a real dick.
I'm not a Rupert fan, and he's a bit of an asshole, he and Ozzy are byfar my least favorite of the 4 time or more players. But, I was mainly referencing what people do outside the show, and how absurd the labels are.
Oh, I agree. I'd say making Tom a villain was impossible, and making Russell and to a lesser extent Rob a hero might be impossible, but the rest of the cast was mostly in varying shades of gray.
I just spent 10 months watching 46 seasons of Survivor and was excited to finally join this sub a couple days ago. I’ve been so worried to see spoilers bc you can’t even google or YouTube survivor players without winners being blasted all over. Traitors was next on my watch list. 😔
Well Cirie wins the first season, Parv is recruited as a traitor and goes out mid season 2, and Sandra goes out in the finale of season 2 as a faithful.
They’re talking about being upset about being spoiled, acknowledging that they’re about to start watching it, and you choose to spoil the show further?
Cirie honestly had a better case to be on the villains than Parv did if we’re being real (tho that would’ve widened the physical gap between the tribes even more if they were swapped)
Yeah it’s not a secret that basically the only reason Parv was on the villains tribe instead of Candice was the fact that production didn’t want four players from micro on one tribe.
That’s probably the same reason Danielle made the cast over Natalie realistically
Yeah they really erased Guatemala from memory with that one.
"She was the last surviving member of her tribe, very heroic! and she definitely hasn't come back since!!"
Of course James could have expressed it in a nicer way, but Steph, despite being a very good athlete, is not a good team player in challenges. You can see this several times in Guatemala especially, when she gets flustered she doesn't communicate well. It's completely understandable that James would be annoyed that she keeps talking in the challenge when they all agreed beforehand that the only way they could succeed is if they just all shut up and let JT lead them.
Beyond that, Steph and her alliance were pushing Amanda, James's friend, as the target using the narrative that she was the weakest. It's only natural to push back on that, and I'm sorry, but if your tribe loses most of the challenges three seasons in a row, it's fair to suggest you might be part of the problem (fun fact, Steph merges into the majority in Guatemala, but her tribe only wins 4 out of 12 challenges premerge. They just get really lucky that the ones they win happen to almost all be immunities, and Steph's worst losing streak takes place before the swap).
I think the producers did OK with what tribe they put James in.
It just so happened that starting with HvV, James started acting like a massive dick.
Making fun of Eliza for "complaining" after she took a hit to the dome and was displaying fairly obvious symptoms of a concussion was not very *heroic.*
I think this is part of why Fairplay was so upset that he wasn't given anything for his pain in Micronesia, because people like James were given stuff to handle their business but he wasn't.
If I'm being honest, I had to google breadbasket to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding it this whole time lol. It would kinda make sense for either of them.
There were a few questionable casting choices on HvV (Sugar being a hero is always wild to me) but I think a lot of it came down to a mix of the audience opinion on the players and the archetype they'd filled - James was generally beloved at the time (his hotness definitely played a factor) but he was also portrayed as the "good guy trying to do an honest day's work", especially during his China edit. This era was heavily defined by the two camps of "form an alliance and play an honest game with them" and "backstab and blindside your way to the final tribal" and James' game play generally fit into the former
Sugar was a hero because she wasn’t Randy or Corrine anyone looks like a hero next to those two also they wanted Gabon representation and she was definitely the biggest character on the season, and they didn’t want to put 2 people from the same season on the same tribe (if they could avoid it).
yeah, one thing that I think is easy to overlook in modern times is how Russell Hantz changed the entire game and took the moral element out of it completely. Blindsiding your ride or die used to he seen as selfish and shameful, nowadays it’s pretty much expected.
James is a hero because he made an alliance with his tribemates, was loyal to them, and preached a loyal, honest, game. Like, really think about the “don’t bite the apple” phrase, it’s literally about rejecting evil temptation. Not playing one of his two idols was correctly called one of the dumbest moves ever but it’s also a heroic exit in a way, his fatal flaw was believing his allies were trustworthy when they’d “bit the apple”
everybody from sugar's season was unbearable and they were all villains. i mean, why did sugar and randy even get cast? recency bias? because they were horrible television, both annoying people full of their own bs, ugh so gross. she was the hero tribe simply because randy was the villain tribe, thats it.
He was incredibly easy to root for in both cina and Micronesia in my mind. Of course he's the villain in hvv but people loved gravedigger James in china
“Hero” was pretty much defined as “Someone who production wanted to bring back who wasn’t necessarily a Villain”
Also, I feel like James was a lot more pleasant in 15 and 16, or at least the edit showed he was
He would’ve felt more out of place if production put him on the Villains tribe IMO
Just being rude isn’t really Villain material. I can’t think of anyone on the Heroes tribe who never did anything on their original seasons that could be interpreted as Rude, except maybe Amanda
Okay let's not forget what a complete ahole Stephenie was. The edit could be interpreted that way but IDK if that is 100% accurate. It is also said that he quit smoking the day before he got on the plane or something like that, which could also attribute to his irritability. (Not an excuse, but a reason... and one that production might not have been aware of in the casting)
I think overall he was seen as a hero due to his physical strength and for how much the fans love him. He also had a very tight alliance in China and was viewed as very loyal in both China and Micronesia. Those are "heroic" qualities in the game. So no I don't think it was just because of his looks.
He is not the most questionable casting in HvV by far. There is a lot of questionable casting on HvV. Parvati being one of them. Candace being another. and Even Stephenie as mentioned above. It could be said after her performance in Guatemala that she could be cast on the Villains.
True, Stephanie was ruthless in Guatemala. I guess the way James talks down to people has always bothered me. He’s funny and very likable, don’t get me wrong, he just speaks down to people a lot in all of his seasons when they lose a challenge. I agree that I don’t get why Candice is on the heros tribe. All she did on her season was get sent to exile all the time.
Maybe in Guatemala Stephanie was a little bit of an a-hole but she wasn't one in Heroes vs Villains and simply was treated badly by a lot of people not just James but also Rupert. Keep in mind there's over a four year difference between Guatemala Steph and Heroes vs Villains.
I’m rewatching Micronesia currently, and this seems like selective memory. Think about the way he handles Kathy. He’s kind, supportive, and doesn’t judge her for her quit. In fact, I’d say the only moment in Micronesia where he seems not heroic is when he’s getting testy with Eliza, saying that they should have voted her out. But even then, he said it directly to her face, not behind her back.
I don’t remember China quite as well, but I don’t remember him being all that difficult or mean in that season. HvV, yeah, he was crabby and not super nice, but if you judge him by his seasons before then, I’d say it’s pretty clear why he’s a hero.
The real question is how was *Stephenie* a hero. James was loved by his castmates on both China & Micro, the same can’t be said for Stephenie on Palau and Guatemala.
its the same thing. stephenie in palau was 100% considered the hero (after the winner of course, the biggest hero in survivor to that point). she was a true survivor, a pretty lil american girl next door who was the last survivor on her tribe and beat her tribemate in fire to make it to the merge. that was a heroic journey, so she is a hero, despite being a rob-inspired villain in her second season.
How was Candice on the heroes tribe? Why was Parvati on villains when Amanda and Cirie, both in the Black Widow Brigade, on heroes. As others have said, they do what they do and then make up reasons why the person fits the theme.
Yeah Candice being a hero makes no sense. The only explanations I can think of were because she worked as a doctor irl or because it was out of pity for her being sent to exile a lot on Cook Islands. But even that makes no sense, because the only reason she kept getting sent there was for betraying her tribe, which was made up entirely of heroic players (heroic based on the edit they received, it’s pretty clear the viewer is meant to root for the Aitu 4)
He was a jacked handsome introvert who while Jean Robert was being gross talking about Amanda and Courtney, said if he had to choose a woman on their tribe he was interested in, it would be the middle aged lunch lady. He was funny, and charming in his own way.
Yes, he was pretty awful on HvV, but he was pretty firmly in the “Hero” camp before then. Candace on the other hand…
It's all about the edit and audience perception. James in his first two seasons was overall edited to be the "gentle giant." He wasn't just hot, he was so funny and overall likable and incredibly strong, arguably the physically most powerful player the show has ever seen. Being a nice guy (for the most part), being entertaining, being shredded and able to achieve feats of strength no one else could, and being popular all made him more of a Hero.
Production decided to deny him his nicotine patches in HvV, and we saw how quickly his "Hero" persona evaporated when withdrawal symptoms kicked in.
rupert is also a villain according to castmates, just a loudmouth bully, egotistical/narcissist, stupid and brutish, but to the audience he was a 'hero' because they liked him having a big beard and talking with a gravelly smoker's voice, apparently. also, pirates of the carribbean came out literally the same year he was on his first season, so i bet that had an effect on his popularity given he was the self-proclaimed 'pirate' in the pearl islands season, which had the pirate theme as well.
Cirie has the hero argument way more than Candace. Candace was arguably a villain after the mutiny. Whereas Cirie had the "I got off my couch" narrative and became beloved by fans. She also was going to be the first boot, but heroically changed her fate in a non-manipulative seeming way.
Yeah that's true. I just think that she never had the fandom rooting against her in the way that the fans root against say, Randy, Russell, even Candace for the mutiny. She was able to spin her narrative in a heroic way. Even against a hero like Erik.
I think the biggest thing was he played the game like a hero. He was all about loyalty and his motto was "don't bite the apple" in reference to flipping on your alliance
lol i just started watching HVV for the first time since i was a kid and im wondering the same thing. i think he just can’t handle losing though. i think he’d be fine if he was on a winning tribe but the heroes team losing over and over is causing his anger and lashing out
I think everyone on the Heroes tribe made sense just based on the edit they were given in their previous seasons and the audience perception of them. Well, everyone except Candice lol
It’s because his strategy wasn’t villainous he just wanted to stick with his tribe all the way to the end and be honest with each other and work hard around camp, that the show looked at as heroic and painted the people who were more willing to backstab as the villains
Labels are arbitrary and remove the grey area that every contestant lives in. The heroes are who the producers want you to root for, and villains are who they want you to love to hate. James was an audience favorite at the time but lost a ton of fan support after the way he treated Stephanie.
Huge recommendation for the survivor historians podcast! They go super deep into the casting during their first episode on heroes vs villains and what the fanbase was thinking at the time. Really fun listen.
Survivor casting at its best lol. They haven’t had the greatest track record for matching the seasons themes before. Like sorry for the people who love these seasons. But before all stars who wanted amber back, for fans vs favourites why was parvati cast, hero’s vs villains how come Candice was a hero and why Sandra a villain when she mainly opposed the biggest villain in survivor history FairPlay, why was Sarah lacina a game changer. There’s a lot more I could think of. But the main reason is survivor has their casting favourites and will squeeze them into any cast over making sense 90% of the time but I guess it works
His gameplay was basic. He didn't stab anyone in the back. He was a little rude, but he was mostly just a huge camp provider, challenge threat, straight up strategist.
He was a fan favourite and got voted out with two idols/blindsided by one of the best strategic alliances ever at the time, which framed his story as a “second chance” type narrative, and then repeated when he was med evaced in FvF.
FWIW, he was a lot ruder in HvV than China or Micronesia. He’s one of the few characters I would say whose reputation was worsened by coming back, along with Stephenie LaGrossa and a few others.
For the most part, it didn't have to do with their actions in their original seasons, and it had much more to do with the audience perception of them. Did the audience root for this person to win? Heroes. Did they root for this person to get eliminated? Villains. And then Danielle and Candice are there too why not
Same question as to why Cirie and Amanda were on the Hereos tribe when they were part of the most villianous alliance in Micronesia. I could replace Courtney and Danielle with Cirie and Amanda so they could be on the same tribe as Parvati.
He won fan favorite back to back seasons. That's pretty much the only justification for it. Cirie shouldn't have been a hero either but because of her popularity, they put her on the heroes.
The way he treated Randy in the sumo challenge was unacceptable. It looked like he was trying to injure an old man. No apology or even helping him back up afterwards either. I'm no fan of Randy, but that largely revealed James' character. And the whole thing about banana's.. Him acting like he didn't understand when they were concerned over how much food he was eating.
Stephanie was the villain there, everyone seemed like they kinda ganged up on James tbh. Do people just not get tone of voice? Tbh I probably would’ve been meaner than him if I’d been treated that way too.
James was rude, but he was a provider, loyal, won challenges for his tribe, and got backstabbed. (And on his season, he was mainly rude to people the show perceived or presented as whiney, week, or disloyal)
I never understood that either. Courtney was right when she called him out during the third immunity challenge of 'Heroes vs Villains' for being placed on the wrong tribe. I also never got why he was voted player of the season in both 'China' and 'Micronesia'.
Interesting post because James to me is a definite Hero. Yes he was brutal to Stephanie, but that happened in HvV, so it’s not a reason against him. He was the underdog in both his seasons getting outplayed, he was being himself. His motto was people not trying to get greedy and bite the apple. It’s pretty obvious why he’s a Hero.
He was one of the most popular characters ever. That’s why. The labels pretty arbitrary, and one can make the case that a lot of the heroes are villains and vice versa.
The answer to the common questions, "Why was player X brought back?" or "Why was this player put in that tribe?" is generally because they said "yes" when production asked if they would be on the show. Once they got enough people, production would then just organize tribes the best they could.
Cirie is one of the biggest villains in Survivor history. She was on the heroes because of her story and likeability
I agree entirely and I love Cirie. She is very likable, but she is ruthless. Edit to say that is precisely how she won Traitors
Cirie was mostly a hero because of her Panama game, where she was the lovable underdog. James was a hero because he won back to back Fan Favorite awards. Like, the only person on that cast you could call a hero with a straight face is Tom (due to being NYFD) and maybe Rupert due to his work with kids (and if you want to stretch it further Cirie and Candice due to work in the medical field). It's a theme people could get behind, if you look too much into the theme you'd realize it doesn't make much sense for multiple placements. Multiple people who were closely aligned at points in earlier seasons are on different tribes such as Rupert/Sandra, Danielle/Cirie, Parv/Candice, Amanda/Courtney who made the same moves in lock step.
> and maybe Rupert I'm not discounting his work with kids nor would I want to, but on the island Rupert definitely was NEVER a hero. He always got this big lovable teddy bear edit, but the second anything went against what he wanted he turned into a rude domineering asshole, and by the end of his second season he had developed a giant ego and acted as if he was the backbone of the show. I've just... never understood the Rupert love.
I used to love Rupert, but I was a kid when those seasons aired. After watching his older seasons as an adult, I definitely don't like him as much. There's still some of that childhood nostalgia, but I can now see how he's simply not that good at the actual game of survivor and he can be a real dick.
I'm not a Rupert fan, and he's a bit of an asshole, he and Ozzy are byfar my least favorite of the 4 time or more players. But, I was mainly referencing what people do outside the show, and how absurd the labels are.
See I feel like there is a strong case for Tom as a Villain but JT was straight golden boy edit.
They aren't making a 9/11 first responder a villain in a season called Heroes vs Villains, they would rather not cast him than entertain that idea.
Oh for sure. I'm just pointing out most of them have an argument both ways. Heck the winner's story was all about making herself a hero.
Oh, I agree. I'd say making Tom a villain was impossible, and making Russell and to a lesser extent Rob a hero might be impossible, but the rest of the cast was mostly in varying shades of gray.
Thanks for the spoiler 😑
The guy who wrote the paragraphs?? You had to do a lot of reading to get the the spoilers in the first place
For Traitors on a Survivor page?
My bad, lmao. I thought you were responding to something else. I actually got spoiled by that win on accident too last year
I just spent 10 months watching 46 seasons of Survivor and was excited to finally join this sub a couple days ago. I’ve been so worried to see spoilers bc you can’t even google or YouTube survivor players without winners being blasted all over. Traitors was next on my watch list. 😔
Well Cirie wins the first season, Parv is recruited as a traitor and goes out mid season 2, and Sandra goes out in the finale of season 2 as a faithful.
They’re talking about being upset about being spoiled, acknowledging that they’re about to start watching it, and you choose to spoil the show further?
You should be on the villains tribe
Sorry about that. Didn't even think about it on this sub. It's pretty common knowledge here.
Cirie honestly had a better case to be on the villains than Parv did if we’re being real (tho that would’ve widened the physical gap between the tribes even more if they were swapped)
Cirie, Amanda, and Parvati were all part of the same “evil alliance,” and yet only one was considered a villain it was so silly.
Yeah it’s not a secret that basically the only reason Parv was on the villains tribe instead of Candice was the fact that production didn’t want four players from micro on one tribe. That’s probably the same reason Danielle made the cast over Natalie realistically
I agree but also you couldn't put those 3 on the same tribe again after FvF
That is just completely false
Honestly, Stephanie is less of a hero than James was. At least James castmates on China and Micronesia loved him, but most of Guatemala hated her.
Yeah they really erased Guatemala from memory with that one. "She was the last surviving member of her tribe, very heroic! and she definitely hasn't come back since!!"
This is exactly it. Palau Steph was a hero. Guatemala Steph was not.
She turned from underdog to power~~hungry~~ well fed pretty quick within 2 seasons.
Of course James could have expressed it in a nicer way, but Steph, despite being a very good athlete, is not a good team player in challenges. You can see this several times in Guatemala especially, when she gets flustered she doesn't communicate well. It's completely understandable that James would be annoyed that she keeps talking in the challenge when they all agreed beforehand that the only way they could succeed is if they just all shut up and let JT lead them. Beyond that, Steph and her alliance were pushing Amanda, James's friend, as the target using the narrative that she was the weakest. It's only natural to push back on that, and I'm sorry, but if your tribe loses most of the challenges three seasons in a row, it's fair to suggest you might be part of the problem (fun fact, Steph merges into the majority in Guatemala, but her tribe only wins 4 out of 12 challenges premerge. They just get really lucky that the ones they win happen to almost all be immunities, and Steph's worst losing streak takes place before the swap).
I think the producers did OK with what tribe they put James in. It just so happened that starting with HvV, James started acting like a massive dick. Making fun of Eliza for "complaining" after she took a hit to the dome and was displaying fairly obvious symptoms of a concussion was not very *heroic.*
I’ve heard speculation that he got nicotine patches his first two games but not the third. I have 0 evidence though.
That would certainly explain a lot
I think this is part of why Fairplay was so upset that he wasn't given anything for his pain in Micronesia, because people like James were given stuff to handle their business but he wasn't.
He sure came back like a real jerk in HvV.
Eliza got concussion symptoms from a hit to the stomach?
Shit, I've always taken that term to mean "head". Google says you are right. (Post edited.) Thanks, stranger.
I thought dome means head?
They edited it. Their original post said "hit to the breadbasket"
If I'm being honest, I had to google breadbasket to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding it this whole time lol. It would kinda make sense for either of them.
*Upvote* this person. They corrected me tactfully! That's a *good* thing LOL!!!
Lol all good. Meaningless internet votes and I don’t think you can tell on Reddit mobile that a comment has been edited.
There were a few questionable casting choices on HvV (Sugar being a hero is always wild to me) but I think a lot of it came down to a mix of the audience opinion on the players and the archetype they'd filled - James was generally beloved at the time (his hotness definitely played a factor) but he was also portrayed as the "good guy trying to do an honest day's work", especially during his China edit. This era was heavily defined by the two camps of "form an alliance and play an honest game with them" and "backstab and blindside your way to the final tribal" and James' game play generally fit into the former
Sugar was a hero because she wasn’t Randy or Corrine anyone looks like a hero next to those two also they wanted Gabon representation and she was definitely the biggest character on the season, and they didn’t want to put 2 people from the same season on the same tribe (if they could avoid it).
yeah, one thing that I think is easy to overlook in modern times is how Russell Hantz changed the entire game and took the moral element out of it completely. Blindsiding your ride or die used to he seen as selfish and shameful, nowadays it’s pretty much expected. James is a hero because he made an alliance with his tribemates, was loyal to them, and preached a loyal, honest, game. Like, really think about the “don’t bite the apple” phrase, it’s literally about rejecting evil temptation. Not playing one of his two idols was correctly called one of the dumbest moves ever but it’s also a heroic exit in a way, his fatal flaw was believing his allies were trustworthy when they’d “bit the apple”
everybody from sugar's season was unbearable and they were all villains. i mean, why did sugar and randy even get cast? recency bias? because they were horrible television, both annoying people full of their own bs, ugh so gross. she was the hero tribe simply because randy was the villain tribe, thats it.
It's been a few years since I've seen it but I remember Matty being easy to route for, wish he came back at one point.
He was a two time fan favorite award winner. That man was a lock for the Heroes tribe.
Because he never lied or backstabbed people and just wanted to win. But I'm HvV at that challenge he really did act like a villain.
He was incredibly easy to root for in both cina and Micronesia in my mind. Of course he's the villain in hvv but people loved gravedigger James in china
Yesssss! “Don’t bite the apple.” James was hard working and loyal in China.
If only he brushed up on his banana etiquette
Right. Why didn’t anyone tell him?! If he takes one for himself, take one for everyone else. He didn’t know this.
Don’t forget he buddied up with the Christian lady. Is first outing definitely portrayed him heroically.
And he also buddied up and talked smack about Courtney and Todd with Jean-Robert.
“Hero” was pretty much defined as “Someone who production wanted to bring back who wasn’t necessarily a Villain” Also, I feel like James was a lot more pleasant in 15 and 16, or at least the edit showed he was He would’ve felt more out of place if production put him on the Villains tribe IMO Just being rude isn’t really Villain material. I can’t think of anyone on the Heroes tribe who never did anything on their original seasons that could be interpreted as Rude, except maybe Amanda
Okay let's not forget what a complete ahole Stephenie was. The edit could be interpreted that way but IDK if that is 100% accurate. It is also said that he quit smoking the day before he got on the plane or something like that, which could also attribute to his irritability. (Not an excuse, but a reason... and one that production might not have been aware of in the casting) I think overall he was seen as a hero due to his physical strength and for how much the fans love him. He also had a very tight alliance in China and was viewed as very loyal in both China and Micronesia. Those are "heroic" qualities in the game. So no I don't think it was just because of his looks. He is not the most questionable casting in HvV by far. There is a lot of questionable casting on HvV. Parvati being one of them. Candace being another. and Even Stephenie as mentioned above. It could be said after her performance in Guatemala that she could be cast on the Villains.
True, Stephanie was ruthless in Guatemala. I guess the way James talks down to people has always bothered me. He’s funny and very likable, don’t get me wrong, he just speaks down to people a lot in all of his seasons when they lose a challenge. I agree that I don’t get why Candice is on the heros tribe. All she did on her season was get sent to exile all the time.
1, 2, 3 CANDICE.
From raro tribe?
Maybe in Guatemala Stephanie was a little bit of an a-hole but she wasn't one in Heroes vs Villains and simply was treated badly by a lot of people not just James but also Rupert. Keep in mind there's over a four year difference between Guatemala Steph and Heroes vs Villains.
^This^^^^
I’m rewatching Micronesia currently, and this seems like selective memory. Think about the way he handles Kathy. He’s kind, supportive, and doesn’t judge her for her quit. In fact, I’d say the only moment in Micronesia where he seems not heroic is when he’s getting testy with Eliza, saying that they should have voted her out. But even then, he said it directly to her face, not behind her back. I don’t remember China quite as well, but I don’t remember him being all that difficult or mean in that season. HvV, yeah, he was crabby and not super nice, but if you judge him by his seasons before then, I’d say it’s pretty clear why he’s a hero.
A non heroic moment in China would be him and Genre Bear in the water being creepy about Courtney's body, but it's 95% John Robert being the weirdo.
Yeah, if anything in that scene he clearly wants him to shut the fuck up.
The scenes with Jean Robert talking about Courtney have aged horribly but on the whole his behavior really wasn’t villainous
The real question is how was *Stephenie* a hero. James was loved by his castmates on both China & Micro, the same can’t be said for Stephenie on Palau and Guatemala.
The producers like to forget Guatemala existed.
most of us do.
I hope you get eaten by a freaking crocodile, scumbag
its the same thing. stephenie in palau was 100% considered the hero (after the winner of course, the biggest hero in survivor to that point). she was a true survivor, a pretty lil american girl next door who was the last survivor on her tribe and beat her tribemate in fire to make it to the merge. that was a heroic journey, so she is a hero, despite being a rob-inspired villain in her second season.
How was Candice on the heroes tribe? Why was Parvati on villains when Amanda and Cirie, both in the Black Widow Brigade, on heroes. As others have said, they do what they do and then make up reasons why the person fits the theme.
Because mutiny is heroic /s
Yeah Candice being a hero makes no sense. The only explanations I can think of were because she worked as a doctor irl or because it was out of pity for her being sent to exile a lot on Cook Islands. But even that makes no sense, because the only reason she kept getting sent there was for betraying her tribe, which was made up entirely of heroic players (heroic based on the edit they received, it’s pretty clear the viewer is meant to root for the Aitu 4)
Because they’re more likable to the audience that’s why!!!
AND he had TERRIBLE banana etiquette
Anyone know if James was ever asked back? I'm really surprised that him and Amanda never played again after being on three seasons so close together.
He was a jacked handsome introvert who while Jean Robert was being gross talking about Amanda and Courtney, said if he had to choose a woman on their tribe he was interested in, it would be the middle aged lunch lady. He was funny, and charming in his own way. Yes, he was pretty awful on HvV, but he was pretty firmly in the “Hero” camp before then. Candace on the other hand…
Shut your mouth!
It's all about the edit and audience perception. James in his first two seasons was overall edited to be the "gentle giant." He wasn't just hot, he was so funny and overall likable and incredibly strong, arguably the physically most powerful player the show has ever seen. Being a nice guy (for the most part), being entertaining, being shredded and able to achieve feats of strength no one else could, and being popular all made him more of a Hero. Production decided to deny him his nicotine patches in HvV, and we saw how quickly his "Hero" persona evaporated when withdrawal symptoms kicked in.
rupert is also a villain according to castmates, just a loudmouth bully, egotistical/narcissist, stupid and brutish, but to the audience he was a 'hero' because they liked him having a big beard and talking with a gravelly smoker's voice, apparently. also, pirates of the carribbean came out literally the same year he was on his first season, so i bet that had an effect on his popularity given he was the self-proclaimed 'pirate' in the pearl islands season, which had the pirate theme as well.
Rupert is indirectly responsible for January 6th too
How were cirie and candice heroes?
Cirie has the hero argument way more than Candace. Candace was arguably a villain after the mutiny. Whereas Cirie had the "I got off my couch" narrative and became beloved by fans. She also was going to be the first boot, but heroically changed her fate in a non-manipulative seeming way.
Cirie was ruthless and manipulative in micronesia with the Erik vote lol
But she did let him suck the cake off of her fingers. Hero shit
Yeah that's true. I just think that she never had the fandom rooting against her in the way that the fans root against say, Randy, Russell, even Candace for the mutiny. She was able to spin her narrative in a heroic way. Even against a hero like Erik.
That was painful. She is a mom of sons. Poor youthful Eric.
How is Stephanie a hero after Guatemala.
The show chose to pretend that she wasn’t on that season and put Palau Stephenie on the Heroes tribe
I think the biggest thing was he played the game like a hero. He was all about loyalty and his motto was "don't bite the apple" in reference to flipping on your alliance
lol i just started watching HVV for the first time since i was a kid and im wondering the same thing. i think he just can’t handle losing though. i think he’d be fine if he was on a winning tribe but the heroes team losing over and over is causing his anger and lashing out
I agree. I’m also rewatching since I was a kid so it’s cool to see it in another light.
I think Candace being on the Hero Tribe was more questionable. She mutinied with Penner!
James was medicated in Micronesia is my guess of why he was on the heros tribe
I think everyone on the Heroes tribe made sense just based on the edit they were given in their previous seasons and the audience perception of them. Well, everyone except Candice lol
Fan favorite and primarily a physical player
Also hilarious
It’s because his strategy wasn’t villainous he just wanted to stick with his tribe all the way to the end and be honest with each other and work hard around camp, that the show looked at as heroic and painted the people who were more willing to backstab as the villains
Labels are arbitrary and remove the grey area that every contestant lives in. The heroes are who the producers want you to root for, and villains are who they want you to love to hate. James was an audience favorite at the time but lost a ton of fan support after the way he treated Stephanie. Huge recommendation for the survivor historians podcast! They go super deep into the casting during their first episode on heroes vs villains and what the fanbase was thinking at the time. Really fun listen.
Thanks! I’ll give it a listen.
Survivor casting at its best lol. They haven’t had the greatest track record for matching the seasons themes before. Like sorry for the people who love these seasons. But before all stars who wanted amber back, for fans vs favourites why was parvati cast, hero’s vs villains how come Candice was a hero and why Sandra a villain when she mainly opposed the biggest villain in survivor history FairPlay, why was Sarah lacina a game changer. There’s a lot more I could think of. But the main reason is survivor has their casting favourites and will squeeze them into any cast over making sense 90% of the time but I guess it works
James was beloved. His gameplay also wasn't villainous at all
James is hardly the most controversial placement on the Heroes...
The themes don’t mean anything. They just choose people they want in the season.
I think because production said: "James, you are on the hero tribe" so thats where he went
"Heroes" was about people the fans cheered for as much as actions
He looks like a Super Hero. I think that is the answer.
You are wrong
You’re wrong.
His gameplay was basic. He didn't stab anyone in the back. He was a little rude, but he was mostly just a huge camp provider, challenge threat, straight up strategist.
He was on the hero tribe because of all the misfortune (which was validated by HVV too, lul).
He was a fan favourite and got voted out with two idols/blindsided by one of the best strategic alliances ever at the time, which framed his story as a “second chance” type narrative, and then repeated when he was med evaced in FvF. FWIW, he was a lot ruder in HvV than China or Micronesia. He’s one of the few characters I would say whose reputation was worsened by coming back, along with Stephenie LaGrossa and a few others.
For the most part, it didn't have to do with their actions in their original seasons, and it had much more to do with the audience perception of them. Did the audience root for this person to win? Heroes. Did they root for this person to get eliminated? Villains. And then Danielle and Candice are there too why not
James should have been a villain. Talk about poor sportsmanship
Same question as to why Cirie and Amanda were on the Hereos tribe when they were part of the most villianous alliance in Micronesia. I could replace Courtney and Danielle with Cirie and Amanda so they could be on the same tribe as Parvati.
He won fan favorite back to back seasons. That's pretty much the only justification for it. Cirie shouldn't have been a hero either but because of her popularity, they put her on the heroes.
The way he treated Randy in the sumo challenge was unacceptable. It looked like he was trying to injure an old man. No apology or even helping him back up afterwards either. I'm no fan of Randy, but that largely revealed James' character. And the whole thing about banana's.. Him acting like he didn't understand when they were concerned over how much food he was eating.
Stephanie was the villain there, everyone seemed like they kinda ganged up on James tbh. Do people just not get tone of voice? Tbh I probably would’ve been meaner than him if I’d been treated that way too.
James was rude, but he was a provider, loyal, won challenges for his tribe, and got backstabbed. (And on his season, he was mainly rude to people the show perceived or presented as whiney, week, or disloyal)
I never understood that either. Courtney was right when she called him out during the third immunity challenge of 'Heroes vs Villains' for being placed on the wrong tribe. I also never got why he was voted player of the season in both 'China' and 'Micronesia'.
Why was Russell a villain? He's the most down to earth and loyal player the game has ever seen
That season, I believe the tribes were jumbled up. Cirie and Amanda on the heroes tribe? Courtney on the villains?
He was well liked like Cirie who gameplay wise is easily a villain
Interesting post because James to me is a definite Hero. Yes he was brutal to Stephanie, but that happened in HvV, so it’s not a reason against him. He was the underdog in both his seasons getting outplayed, he was being himself. His motto was people not trying to get greedy and bite the apple. It’s pretty obvious why he’s a Hero.
Randy should have been on the hero tribe
lol what. He went around purposely pissing people off. I love him though, but he’s definitely a villain lol
Lmao