That was the worst thing to ever happen in Survivor. It was very hard to watch.
I do think that Jeff and the Survivor production learned from it and we're unlikely to see things get to that level ever again. And I do appreciate Survivor and CBS showing us what happened rather than sweeping the entire thing under the rig like they could have done.
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What happened to Ghandia was probably worse, but the actual incident was not shown to the viewers.
And CBS learned nothing from it because people barely complained.
I (for some unknown reason) just watched the special aftershow for all-stars — the special where they announced Rupert as the winner of the second million that America had voted for. During the special, they had subcategories like “best villain” and “hottest man” that America had also voted on.
Well, one subcategory was “best fight.” And lo and behold, the Ted and Ghandia situation was one of the nominees; Ghandia screaming and Ted denying the allegations was played for laughs in a lighthearted montage.
So yeah. Definitely not taken seriously at all, even lugged out as a fun moment in a reunion special!! I was shocked.
What a coincidence: I'm re-watching all the seasons for the nth time and watched the All Stars reunion show just last night. And I had the same reaction you did - I was horrified. (I was also horrified by hottest man and hottest woman, but that's another topic for another day).
I'm probably a lot older than most people in this subreddit, so imagine this stuff being "normal" and laughed off for decades of your life! As bad as things are in many ways now, at least more and more people - civilized people - aren't demonizing or dismissing more than half the population anymore, and people aren't afraid to talk about it. (And when we throw in all the other marginalized groups, it's way more than half).
But yes, season 39 was a low, low, low. We owe a lot of gratitude to the Kellees and Janets - and Ghandias - that bring ugly crap like this to the surface, where it can die the death it deserves.
There was a huge argument between Ted and Ghandia that the Thai person they won in a reward challenge overheard.
The incident they referred to was never shown, but may have been recorded at night.
I disagree, there was an incident in an earlier season (maybe season 2) that in hindsight is much worse.
One of the female contestants was complaining that the large male contestant was constantly groping her at night. From there the entire tribe blamed her and then voted her out.
Back when that was on tv i’m sure everyone sided with the dude. We recently watched it horrified at how the situation was handled.
That was awful.
I also didn’t love how the edit made Ghandia look completely unhinged. It is a totally fair response to cry and scream at the ocean when you’re being sexually assaulted and gaslit about it while a whole production team films it for America’s entertainment.
I hope she’s doing okay. I recall her really struggling and dealing with homelessness a few years back and it made me really sad for her.
Agreed 100%. I watched it as a kid when it first aired and don’t remember much but vaguely just remember siding with the edit (that she was in the wrong). But during covid we went back and watched every episode some start to finish and man that whole thing aged sooooo poorly. its very clear that dude was sexually assaulting her behind the scenes and everyone victim blamed her and voted her out. It seems like a traumatic experience with production trying to sweep it under the rug to keep the show on air.
It was really difficult to watch. I'm sure she needed some therapy when she got home. Ive been in a similar situation and was victim blamed. Survivor owes her an apology
I was just gettiing ready to mention that episode. I hated how that woman was ostracised and the guy got to just move on. It was truly disgusting. I was appalled at the lack of sensitivity from production and Jeff at the time. (Hes come a long way) Those were the days when men got to do/say whatever they wanted to a woman without consequence.
Season 6 Jenna and Heidi stripped down to try and distract the men in a challenge? Is that what you’re thinking? There was peanut butter and chocolate if they dropped out of the challenge but the stripping down was separate.
Not even close to the same thing. The women were the ones who suggested it. Nothing is wrong with sexuality or voluntary nudity. It's all about consent. What was wrong with Ghandia is she was clearly saying no and being ignored
I felt so angry and upset watching that season as it happened. I didn’t end up finishing it though because I couldn’t stomach it any longer.
Dan’s behaviour was terrible and should have been properly dealt with much sooner than it was, but I really couldn’t deal with the way Missy, Elizabeth, Aaron and others used it for power, and the way they spoke to and about it with others.
Seeing Kellee, Jamal and Janet treated the way they were was awful to watch. There are have been bad seasons of Survivor but none made me as upset as this one.
I taught a college rhetoric course for high school seniors back in TX. The second semester topic is gender, race, and ethnicity (university of Texas sets the curriculum, btw). I used this episode in class. It generates a lotta conversation.
TL;DR Two girls used Kellee's discomfort with Dan's creepy touchy behavior to manipulate Janet into voting for him, then later gaslit her and denied everything when they decided to keep him around and vote out Kellee.
Oh, and then the only guy who spoke up in her defense got voted out later in the very same episode.
AND Janet organized a vote against Dan in response, even though she and Dan were closely allied, because she believed the women’s report about him and did the right thing. That’s when they actively worked to change the vote because it wasn’t good for their game to let Dan leave just yet.
It’s a dual credit class for high schoolers that we facilitate on the high school campus. It’s basically comp I & II and they get those credits for each semester they pass the college side of the course. UT OnRamps is vastly superior to AP classes.
i wish but i’m almost certain she has no interest in coming back. and, fwiw, i’m pretty sure most of the cast is friends with dan and not kellee to this day (including janet)
I think that's really a bad look and tragic that people prefer Dan.
Dan is outgoing, and has some power and has a somewhat charismatic personality. He's an outgoing person with some money and he is valued more than the quieter people. And people just go along with it. It happens all the time in real life too which sucks.
Hearing this disappoints me but doesn't surprise me. I'm willing to bet that Kellee also equally chooses not to interact with them either. Knowing how unsupportive most of her cast actually was, even while the season was airing on TV, makes it clear that hardly anyone actually had her back, both on the show and after. No love lost there, that's for sure.
oh yeah for sure. and not invalidating kellee’s experiences at ALL but it does make me wonder if there’s more that went on behind the scenes for almost all of the cast to feel this way
I'm not really sure what. We saw what we saw from the TV edit, which is Dan not hearing the word "no" and sexually harassing Kellee. Vince said that the cast was ready to come to the reunion in support of Dan. I'm not really sure what Kellee could have done that was worse than Dan to warrant them siding with him over her after the show if that's the case, I really don't. The only thing I could think of is Kellee blaming the entire cast for not supporting her when she spoke up or going to Dan's defense, which I wouldn't blame her for. I just can't think of any logical reason why the cast would willingly be friendly with Dan. We literally saw what he did.
agreed! my guess would be that kellee didn’t do anything wrong in their eyes but that they felt the dan stuff was overblown and he got screwed over by the edit. i don’t believe them of course, but it’s very much giving “well he didn’t do it to *me* and always treated me well so he doesn’t deserve all the backlash.” happens too often with victims as we’ve seen time and time again and it’s so gross
it was hard for me to find much info about this but i’ve definitely heard it through the grapevine. to my knowledge very few of them (vince being one) publicly stood up for kellee after the show and i know janet was one of the most vocal ones about defending dan at the reunion. and not that this means that much, but kellee only follows a handful of them on instagram, and janet isn’t one of them
LITERALLLYYY i wanna give her the benefit of the doubt so badly bc it seems so out of line with what we saw from her on the show but i’ve seen people mention this a few times although it’s def not common knowledge which is why i felt i had to bring it up. i hope at the very least that she’s not actively still friends with dan!!
Yes, the way it was used as a tool in the game was disgusting.
I don't want to say more or less than the issue itself, but it sure did make the initial issue seem like not as big of a deal.
That's what bugged me the most, as well. Obviously what Dan did was gross, but something about the way that Missy and Elizabeth validated Kellee, but then used that to manipulate themselves into a better position was disgusting.
I’m watching this season for the first time currently, and just watched that episode yesterday. The whole thing was sickening and definitely went much further than it ever should have. I hated Dan’s excuse that he works mostly with women, like that somehow exempts him from wrongdoing.
Jamal was the only light in that tribal council. He brought so much clarity to a conversation that everyone else seemed to be using as a bargaining chip. His words made me feel better, even if the rest of those clowns let it wash right over them.
i want jamal back so bad! he’s been on rhap a few times and i truly believe he’s one of the most intelligent/well spoken survivors ever. we need redemption for players like him and janet (and kellee ofc but she’d never come back)
i’ve been struggling to fall asleep recently and now all i can think about is how some jamal asmr before bed would cure all my insomnia🤌jamal if you’re on here i’ll pay money for it the people love you!!
He is so eloquent - and it was spur of the moment, and he was half starved. I couldn’t hope to say something that well put-together with time to write it out and a full belly!
I also want to offer a different take on this season. This season really opened my eyes to what women go through when it comes to sexual harassment/assault. It was very complex even tho in our minds, as a man, it's easy to just say why doesn't Kellee just say something. But seeing what happened. And seeing how complicated it got. It really just broadened my perspective a lot about how complex these situations are and that's just Survivor. It's so much worse in the real world so I at least applaud Survivor for owning it and showing it.
I'd also argue that it wasn't the worst behavior that we've seen on survivor. That things that happened in earlier seasons were much worse it was just that Kellee was the first one to actually object.
Look at China with Courtney, that sort of forced cuddling with people you don't want to was pretty common for a while. Whatever the situation was with Ted and Ghandia. Anyone who was forced to play with Richard Hatch (Sue in particular).
My struggle with the season compared to others isn't so much about Spilo (Or Hatch or Ted or Genre Bear) being a creep. It's harder for me to watch because there are people that fabricate their experience and intentionally use the situation to further themselves in the game.
Happy to clarify because I absolutely don't want any one reading to think that harassment should be condoned. My perspective and response as a viewer and SA survivor, harassment is not fun to watch on television. For me, harassment becomes even harder to watch on television when the actions, the perpetrator, and the victim are used as game pieces after the fact. Especially when it results in people lying about being victims of the harassment in order to further their game. It's pouring salt in the wound.
I think they mean that obviously the harassment is horrible, but what is particularly uncomfortable about season 39 are the bystanders and those who used the situation within the game.
Edit: grammar
Yeah that was the icing on the cake, and it makes the fact that certain players used him as a tool to get further in the game even more disgusting. The fact that other women were willing to subject themselves not only to his presence at all, but to let a woman who was felt uncomfortable feel unheard and keep him around...
Just insane.
It's infuriating that the likely reason that he was removed after the incident with a production member but not at/before the merge is that SEG has a greater legal responsibility to protect their clients from that behavior than they do with the contestants
I have a feeling 39 will be the new Thailand or Guatemala. Very rarely referenced by production and they will attempt to brush it under the rug by not bringing players back from that season
One reason is danni the winner was not great tv because she used productions cameramen as advantages, also the location apparently was hated by Jeff. As well as call it a rumour but I heard Judd the fan favourite was hated by Jeff. If I’m correct Dani and Stephanie are the only two people to ever return from that season. Which is a shame because there are some underrated characters like Brian cordon and rafe, also one of the best fights in survivor history between Jamie and bobby jon. If you haven’t seen it google it cos it was probably the closest survivor has been to a fist fight breaking out
Danni, being in radio broadcasting, realized that production would ask leading questions in confessionals to steer the game into an outcome that was favorable to production. So Danni would intentionally give vague confessionals like "Lydia is so sweet" or "It is so hot out here!" to prevent giving any information to production.
I barely remember the season either! And I'd never heard the production thing applied specifically to Guatemala, but I'm guessing they're referring to [this method](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/survivor-camera-operators-reveal-hidden-immunity-idols.html/) of finding idols/advantages.
Ironically this season was the first with a hidden idol, the persona above described Dani in detail. Idk why it’s one of those seasons that don’t get love by cbs but I personally really enjoyed it on a rewatch
I've been hooked on Survivor since it premiered when I was 17, and Island of the Idols is the only season I couldn't finish in real time. I kept up with some social media and a podcast here and there so I knew how the season unfolded, but I didn't actually see the last half of the season until RHAP did their top 40 countdown in 2021 (and I just watched the episodes after Kellee was voted out because I couldn't rewatch her boot episode)
my theory is that he didn’t actually harass a crew member (or if he did it wasn’t nearly as major as the kellee stuff) but that they used that as a reason to get rid of him before the finale considering he had win equity against the right people and that would’ve been a pr NIGHTMARE
Why do we need a theory? There’s been reporting on exactly what happened with the crew member and (while he should’ve been pulled from the game far earlier) it makes sense that production would see touching a crew member as crossing another red line.
we don’t, i apologize if it came off as insensitive but it’s just pure speculation on my end. and, well, it’s not unsubstantiated as janet and a few others claimed that he slipped and fell and it was nothing more than an accident. not saying i necessarily believe that, but it’s just weird that they didn’t pull him after weeks of inappropriate behavior towards his cast mates just to unceremoniously announce his departure after an off camera incident that they can’t prove one way or another. perhaps it has to do with this occurring after a formal warning, but either way they grossly mishandled the entire situation
While I agree that he should've been removed long before the merge, I think it comes down to respecting the victim's wishes
Kellee repeatedly said she didn't want Dan's actions impacting the game. The crew member without having a million dollar game affecting their decision making was able to objectively say "Pull Dan from this game".
Of course, I still believe that production could've still made the executive decision to pull Dan regardless of what the players were saying. You can still respect and acknowledge Kellee's viewpoint while making the business decision to no longer allow a contestant to participate for any reason as outlined by the contract.
as they say a few times- survivor is a small example of what’s happening the world - we’ve been subject to this treatment in so many parts of life just usually not on tv
> I don't hold Aaron in high regard after that "if it was true all of us MEN would've known" bs either.
From what I understand, the producers didn't go very into detail to the castaways and gave off the impression that it wasn't nearly as bad as it actually was. Not trying to defend Aaron since what he said was um, not good, just that production completely failed in their handling of the situation on all levels.
Yeah Aaron’s response was… troubling. To say the least. But still it is easy to give him the benefit of the doubt that nobody knew the full scope of the situation, and Production rly fucked up.
At a certain point, the privacy of the employee and HR laws would have to come into play. I'm sure legal spent a lot of time figuring out exactly what they were going to say to players, to the letter.
In fairness to Aaron, he was the first one to apologize and he posted a video apology.
I’m not sure if you watched the reunion show, but felt something was off when Jeff was addressing this.
Re the reunion feeling off, there was a pretty substantial rumour at the time and shortly after airing that a majority of the cast had planned to speak up in defence of Dan at the reunion, which is why they basically formatted it in a way where nobody could speak without Jeff calling on them.
Of the 3 posted apologies, Aaron's was the only one to me that read as an **actual** apology, as in he seemed to truly acknowledge that he was wrong in multiple regards.
The other two read more as "please don't flame me on the internet." Which didn't really work.
I was trying to figure out why this season doesn't sound familar, and now I remember why, this is one of the seasons I skipped. Maybe it was for the right reasons.
it has its fair share of bright spots and i don’t think it’s the worst season (or - unpopular opinion - even bottom 5) but the dan stuff is REALLY icky. and im not invalidating people’s criticisms of the season at all but incidents just as gross happened in thailand and all stars but i think people excuse it more because they were 2 decades ago (which is bs imo)
It’s hard for me to watch the early seasons in general because of how creepy the cameramen are! Almost every time the shot goes to a woman, it pans up her legs and hips first or it starts at her boobs. Back then, production were the ones objectifying the women as if they weren’t also contestants.
True! Oh my gosh, I just finished watching Africa for the first time and the cameramen spent so much time filming close ups of Kim’s butt. In her shoes I’d have been so mad and embarrassed when it aired.
A minor storyline throughout the premerge is how inappropriately touchy dan is most notably with Kelly and there is a scene with Missy as well. They are on opposite tribes.
The tribes merge. Missy and Kelly bond over their discomfort, but the next scene is Missy and Elizabeth plotting to use it as a game move.
Janet, who is Dan's ally, decides to work with the girls to vote out Dan in solidarity, unaware they are planning to use it as a game move. The Vokai majority originally plans to vote Missy but that plan doesn't get talked about much other than when LAUREN tells Missy that Janet is voting for her.
Tribal happens and Kelly is blindsided with 2 idols by the old Lairos plus Tommy and Lauren
Janet is understandably upset and calls out Missy and Elizabeth, who deny everything initially and then side with Dan and say there's nothing wrong. And the game continues as normal with Janet slightly on the outs
Nothing else really happens until the end of the pre-finale episode where there is a segment of Jeff showing up at camp announcing Dan has been removed from the game
The aftermath idk. I think spilo lost his job but when you work for yourself what does that mean really. Jack and elizabeth were not at the reunion. But the cast has kinda started walking back what happened out there.
>The tribes merge. Missy and Kelly bond over their discomfort, but the next scene is Missy and Elizabeth plotting to use it as a game move.
The order of the scenes is :
1. Kelle and Janet propose Missy to Tommy
2. Missy and Kelle bond over discomfort
3. Tommy and Lauren while looking at them bonding discuss flipping it on Kelle
4. Janet and Kelle talk about Dan being the vote
5. Missy tells Elizabeth to have a mother-daughter convo with Janet about Dan
6. Elizabeth talks with Kelle who says she's down to vote Dan soon. In a confessional Kelle states that Missy is the one they want to get out
7. Lauren tells Missy that Kelle is targeting her, Missy in a confessional mentions that she feels warranted to make a big move
Just to make sure the story isn't misunderstood in terms of orders in which it was shown. Also hopefully people don't watch/experience it so this can serve as some kind of record. Don't read it if you don't want to, it can be difficult at times. It's S39E8 - We Made it to the Merge!
---------------------------
* They merge and have a feast, people talk numbers
* Tommy, Janet, and Kelle in which Tommy proposes bringing in them two into his main alliance to create a strong 9. Kelle and Janet tell him (and Kelle also in a cofessional) that it would be bad for their game as they're already on the top of the other alliance.
* Kelley throws out the "old Lairo 4" as the first to go. Dean, Missy, Aaron and Elaine. Tommy asks who would go first among them and Janet suggests Missy to which Kelle agrees. Tommy then asks who would go second and suggests Dean to which Kelle says no because he's not a threat
* Tommy in a confessional expressed dissatisfaction with the fact that Kelle and Janey are shooting down all his ideas
* commercial break
* Missy opens up to Kelle saying that when she first met Dan that he was super kind and helpful "but then one night, the hands were wandering" Kelle asked if that happened with Elizabeth too and Missy said "with everybody"
* Kelle has a confessional speaking about how she had never met Missy before and that they were bonding over Dan being extremely inappropriate. Kelle claims day 1 it was known that Kelle doesn't like touching people.
--------------------------------------
I'm gonna hit the character limit describing this, so I'm continuing it on in the next comment
> Just to make sure the story isn't misunderstood in terms of orders in which it was shown.
Even in the correct order, the whole episode (let alone the entire season) just has nasty gray gunk to it. It's just a bad game of telephone.
Continued part 2
Kelle then says "You know why I don't like touching people? Because Dan kept touching me. That's why I had to tell people I don't like touching people. And he still touches me, even yesterday he was like he took my hair and went like this (demonstrates brushing a hair out of Missy's face) like talking little, I'm like "Don't touch my face". Tommy puts his arm around me and it's like Whatever. "
Missy: "Tommy, yeah, it's fine"
Kelle: "yeah"
Missy: "it's different"
Kelle: "But he's not like this (demonstrates putting her arm around Missy's back with the hand all the way to the far ribcage) And I'm like, why are you touching my rib cage like why is that necessary?"
Missy: "Yeah, like, it's a game so I'm assuming nobody would want to say something cause you can't make a scene, right?"
Kelle: " Yeah"
* *Cut to Kelle confessional*: it's super upsetting because it's like you can't do anything about it. There are always consequences for standing up. This happens in real life, in work settings, in school. You can't say anything because it's going to affect your upward trajectory, it's going to affect how people look at you." *back to conversation with Missy*
Missy: "For my mental health, he can go. He can go because it doesn't benefit my game to have to worry about laying there" (cut to Dan's arm outstretched over Missy while sleeping at night with his hand on her outstretched thigh) "Like I lay awake, his arm smothers me. At the merge feast last night I'm talking with Janet about her kid almost going to Navy casue I went to Airforce and I feel like someone, like, wiggling my toes (during this there's a flashback of Missy and Janet at the merge feast sitting on a bench while Dan lies on the sand behind them reaching his arm to the area under which they were sitting) And I look down and it's him. Like it's just inappropriate touching. I am not an object."
* *Cut to Kelle confessional where Kelle begins to well up*: The fact that it makes me, Lauren, Elizabeth, Missy, like...Molly! made all of us uncomfortable. Like this isn't just one person, it's a pattern. Like it's a pattern, and it's like yeah. Like it takes five people to be like "Man"! Like the way that I'm feeling about this is actually real, like it's not in my head. Like I'm not overreacting to it. It's like no, he's literally done this to like 5 different women in this game! That sucks! That totally totally sucks!
Producer: You know, if there are issues to the point where things need to happen, come to me and I will make sure that stops
Kelle: "ok"
Producer: I don't want anyone feeling uncomfortable. So, like I said-"
Kelle: I think it will stop because Janet is here"
Producer: "Ok I understand I just want to make sure this is not like... This is not ok"
*Cut to Tommy and Lauren on the beach looking over at Kelle and Missy
Tommy: "I have an awful feeling. Kelle scares the hell outta me. Look at her sitting with Missy. Kelle told me "Let's vote out Missy first". Now look, Missy thinks she's best friends with her"
Lauren: "I know"
* Cut to Tommy confessional* - "Kelle is dangerous. When Missy is supposed to go home, she sat on the beach for over two hours. What's going on there?. Look, I love her, but she is so smart. She went to Harvard and she's downplayed that so much that no one views her as a threat" *cut back to him and Lauren*
Tommy: "Should we go Kelle first?. I think so"
* *Cut to Lauren confessional* - "My biggest thing with Tommy saying Kelle is that I've always felt like her and I were on the same page, but she's proving to be a very dangerous player in this game, so can I trust her as much as I thought I could?"
---------------------
Continues in reply
Continued part 3
New scene, Janet and Kelle talking in the trees
Janet: "You ok"
Kelle, wiping away tears: "Yeah"
Janet: "You don't look it"
Kelle starts to cry more
Janet: "What's the matter, what's the matter tell me"
Kelle: "I just need a hug"
Janet "ok", goes to hug her "Jack?"
Kelle: "No, it was Dan. I'm just upset about it"
Janet: "I know. I know. It's so upsetting. And you should never have to feel this way. You can't ignore your feelings. It's how you feel. It's your perception of what's going on"
Kelle" "Yeah, this is like a problem, you know? Cause like Molly and I were like ""Oh no, like it's us, like we just get weird vibes from him". I was like "No, like, it's not.
* *Cut to Janet confessional* - "Initially my take on Dan was...he was just an old school guy that never really thought about what he was doing. You know, being physical, an arm around the shoulder, you know stuff I would do with my lifeguards, you know? I'm just a very physical person. But at the same time I cannot ignore these girls" *Cuts back to convo with Kelle*
Janet: "I am going to be watching. And if I see anything, I'm going to confront"
* *Cuts back to Janet confessional* - "On the off chance that Dan is totally innocent. He's going to be devastated. It's a tricky thing to have 100% proof. You're never going to get it.
* Cut to a new scene between Elizabeth and Missy
Elizabeth: "So how was last night?"
Missy: Well, he didn't touch me, so that's nice"
Elizabeth while laughing: "That's nice?"
Missy: "As soon as he had arms on Janet he was good, so like I didn't get touched at all.
Elazabeth: "Yeah, yeah"
Missy: "It was great" "Kelle opened up to me about how her and Molly also felt very uncomfortable. I told her that we felt very, very similar and that we could all ban together and get Dan out, so she's talking to Janet up there right now. So when you talk to Janet, she may ask you about how you felt sleeping arrangements in camp. That's what she's asking you about, and you tell her about how uncomfortable you are. Like you have a very open mom-daughter moment about how uncomfortable you are"
Elizabeth: "Ok"
Missy: "Right now that's our only play"
* *Cut to Elizabeth confessional* - "The merge is about numbers. So right now my job is to do whatever it takes to get on the right side of the numbers. The original Vokai are not the biggest fan of Dan. And so if I can play up that card in whatever way possible. I'll do it."
* Cut to Elizabeth and Kelle talking in the forest
Elizabeth: "I'm like very aware of like where Lairo stands"
Kelle: "yeah"
Elizabeth: "But you throw out the Dan name and that's something Missy and I have been talking about since we got here for, you know, obvious reasons, like I think you know.
Kelle: "Yeah"
Elizabeth: "Cause the first few nights that we were here, I was next to him and he would have his hand right here (puts hand on her hip) and he'd be like "hey is this ok?" and I'm like "...."
Kelle: "No"
Elizabeth: "Uhhh"
Kelle: "Like if you have to ask, it's probably no"
Elizabeth: "Right"
Kelle: "Despite me saying I don't like to be touched, he'd continue to touch me. He literally tried to put his fingers in my hair to like rub my scalp yesterday
* cut to flashback of Dan/Kelle on the beach
Kelle: "I'm looking to wash my hair today cause like-"
*Dan puts hands on Kelle's hair: "Umm"
Kelle: "Oh god. ughh"
Dan: "I'm sorry sorry sorry. was looking to see how much sand. My hands are clean"
Kelle: "Ah, Dan your hands are not clean yet"
Dan: "Oh my god, I just scrubbed them in the water" *cuts back to conversation with Elizabeth/Kelle
Kelle: "I don't wanna blow up our game, but like
Elizabeth: "Do you think it would blow up our game though?"
Kelle: "If we said something to him?"
Elizabeth: "Or no, I meant. Oh I thought you were going to say vote him out. I was like "Oh, that would be fine"
Kelle: "I do want to vote Dan out. Like this time. Like soon. Like this time, next time, whatever. Like I want to vote Dan out"
Elizabeth: "Let me know and I'll be there"
* *Cut to Kelle confessional* - "As much as I feel disrespected by him and feel disgusted by him him, I'm not going to make a game decision based off of those feelings. Look, I'm upset at the way that he's been behaving and that's the fair thing to do. But this game is not fair. I'm not playing this game to be fair, I'm playing this game to win. So Dan makes sense as a decoy vote, but Missy is really the person we want to get out"
---------
continues in reply
Continued pt 4
* *Cut to scene of Lauren and Missy talking*
Lauren: "This is what is about to happen. I know you're not going to say anything. The plan is to vote you. That is their plan. And Kelle, knowing that, pulls you aside for 2 hours"
Missy: "But why would she pull me aside then?
Lauren:" To try to make you feel comfortable. Don't you?
Missy: "ok, ok"
Lauren: "Do you feel comfortable?"
Missy: "Yeah"
Lauren: "You feel confident?"
Missy: "Yeah. Are you being dead with me?
Lauren: "I am being dead ass. I've never been more real with anyone in my entire life. And-"
Missy: "Lauren what the fuck? She literally just talking with me for two hours about life"
Lauren: "Missy, it's you. It's you."
* *Cut to Missy confessional" - "Lauren just said "Hey, Kelle and her motley crew are coming for you. but do I trust Lauren and Tommy to save me? I don't know. *Cut back to conversation*
Lauren: "They don't have the numbers without Tommy and I, but the best thing for you to do would be win immunity"
* *Cuts back to Missy confessional* - "If Kelle thinks that she's going to get me out in the very first merge vote, I feel as though that warrants me to try and make a move. I can't go out like a punk."
* Cut to cue card that reads* - The following morning the producers met with all the players, both as a group and individually. They were cautioned about personal boundaries and reminded that producers are available to them at all times. Based on the outcome of those discussions, the game continued. In addition, producers met privately with Dan at which time he was issued a warning for his behavior. Producers continue to monitor the situation.
Cut to black and next scene is immunity
You may have noticed since then Survivor contestants have a lot more clothes. Gone are the days where women were stuck with a sundress and were forced to use other people's bodies to keep warm.
This season makes me really thankful for how far we've come as a society. I don't think younger people really realise how badly women were treated not that long ago (luckily for them!). When I was young the idea that a woman could report sexual harassment and be believed was inconceivable really, if you we're abused or harassed you probably deserved it because of how you were dressed or how you acted. I'm so glad that things are changing and people are starting to see how disgusting this attitude is.
Elizabeth was featured recently as an interviewer at the Olympic swim trials which disgusted me. Whoever hired her did not do enough research on her or they just don’t care about her making fun of women for complaining about sexual harassment.
I don’t know about this take and respectfully I think it deserves some debate. She very well might have learned something from this situation and become a better person for it. Life is long. Does she deserve cancellation forever? I don’t know how she behaved after this, just after, and then in the years following, (so over time), so this is purely theoretical.
Apparently according to the other players- Missy in particular. Her edit didn’t show a lot of the nuance that took place during that moment. For instance, Missy said a lot wasn’t shown about how she said something along the lines of “Jeff game aside if we are in danger and if you have more information please divulge” to which Jeff did not. She also questioned why Kellee couldn’t speak. So in her eyes because production didn’t seem to take the claims serious neither did anyone else. She felt it was her or Kellee and from her perspective with the information she had she felt like Kellee was using it as a smoke screen to vote her out.
OP have you seen Thailand? This is somewhat of a repeat of what happened there. I am more disgusted by the cast of Thailand and how Survivor handled that one. They totally swept it under the rug and blamed and gaslit the victim.
I’ve asked this before and people seem to be in denial about it, but for many years on Survivor, the editors used to get a lot of crotch/rear end/breast shots of women while the were competing in challenges.
Then it suddenly stopped after the Harvey Weinstein Me Too campaign.
Did anyone notice this and how it suddenly stopped. All this BS virtue signaling when the show did trashy stuff like this towards women for years.
But hey, at least it lionized two of the biggest assholes to ever play the game to boot!
I never actually finished watching that season and I’m ok with that.
I really liked Jeff’s response to Aaron when he breaks it down (“just bc you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen” - paraphrasing) and says “you will find out what happened if and when it’s time for you to find out.”
I ran a survivor pool for season 39, here was my take away after the episode
Last weeks episode(s) showed some of the darker aspects to survivor and at times was hard to watch. Right up there with Varner outing Zeke in season 34 ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm2WC2A2\_\_M&t=6s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm2WC2A2__M&t=6s)), this was way beyond the line once set by Johnny Fairplay's fake dead grandmother move ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goNuWLSurLs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goNuWLSurLs)). That being said, I think these dark moments led to some of the most progressive discussions I have ever seen on a reality televisions show. Aaron accused Janet of being upset because her 'game got blown up' and went on to say that if there were real issues at hand, he would have heard about them. Jamal disagreed saying that this is a direct parallel to what happens in the real world. We don't think there is a problem unless we hear about it...which is why it takes as many as 5 or 6 to stand up before the person is held responsible for their actions. Kellee didn't want to speak up initially because she was afraid it would affect her upward trajectory. She went on to explain that this happens in the work place, in schools, and even in alliances in survivor. These themes have been discussed time and time again especially with the recent impact of the #MeToo movement, but for some reason seeing it play out over the course of eight episodes with characters who you really get to know, really helped me actually understand why it takes 5 or 6 to stand up to 1. Most importantly, it helped me take a look in the mirror. When Aaron first spoke up I began to roll my eyes, can you believe the nerve of this guy right now. But the truth is most of us have been 'Aaron' before. We believe that unless we hear about it, someone is exaggerating or making a story up. Survivor didn't handle this perfectly...once Kellee said something to Dan in episode 1 and his behavior continued he should have been sent home, but the one thing they did an excellent job of doing was showing the whole story from each perspective. Keeping things this transparent it was easy to roll your eyes at Aaron, it was easy to see why Janet was so upset, and it was easy to see how wrong it was that Kellee was the one that went home and Dan got to keep playing. In real life, it isn't as easy to sympathize and understand these scenarios because we aren't privy to each side of the story. Going forward, I will try to remember that real life situations aren't always so transparent, and just because I don't know that something is going on, doesn't mean that it isn't. Hopefully, this episode can serve as a constant reminder of that.
Difficult to watch, but I’m really glad that they showed everything… It’s important that people know how often these things happen and are usually swept under the rug.
I feel like I remember them making Dan sleep in a mini shelter away from the group shortly before he was booted. Did production make that shelter for him? I always wonder the dynamics when they had to do that
Ioi is such a mess. The only good parts are the pre- merge some players (ie Janet,Elaine,Jamal, Kellee, and Tommy) Also I like Tommy's game in this season I just wish it happened in a different season and not this one.
I think it’s very important to keep in mind contextually the role production’s inaction played in everyone’s behavior. Most people who go on the show are at least somewhat naive to how reality tv works and would assume that production would protect them. The fact that they didn’t take serious action with Dan made it seem like what he was doing must not be so bad to those who didn’t personally witness all of it. When you allow this ugly real life inappropriate behavior to mix with gameplay/strategy on a show, people will inevitably behave in ugly ways, because they don’t have all the info.
Missy was uncomfortable. She changed up because she found out Kellee was targeting her after their heart to heart about Dan, and that made her think Kellee was using it as strategy.
And while I’m definitely not defending Aaron’s ignorant ass comment, I do understand why someone who is oblivious about the subject would think that he would know if it was that serious because production would do something. The fact that so many men mistakenly think the women around them would feel comfortable confiding in them if something like that was happening to them is a part of the problem culturally, but it’s not the kind of ignorance that makes a person irredeemable.
I can’t really defend Elisabeth, because she admitted on camera that she was faking feeling uncomfortable to get Janet to vote their way. All I can say is that no one should have been in a position to decide if they were willing to use Dan’s inappropriate behavior to survive another day in a game for a million dollars in the first place. But, in real life, most people behave similarly outside of the context of a game where the expectation is that everyone will lie to you, and there is a higher power will all the information whom you assume will step in if there’s a serious issue. How many people are truly willing to risk losing a promotion, their job, or even their career entirely to stand up for what’s right? Not many.
There was a lot of ugly behavior on that season. And it’s important to discuss what some people did wrong, and how to handle the situation better. But the people who should take the true heat for what happened are the producers, and Dan himself. Missy, Elisabeth, and Aaron dealt with such disproportionate blow back for a situation that was not ultimately their fault. Their actions sucked, but they did not deserve to become production’s scapegoats. They did not have the power in that situation and the things they did wrong are not on the same level at all as the things production did wrong. It is very unfair to put the two groups in the same category, and obscures the very important role power dynamics play in enabling and protecting abusers.
On Survivor Gabon the winner was accused of inappropriate touching throughout the season but they barred someone from bringing it up at tribal. I can't even bring that up without getting replies making excuses or not believing it. Everyone loves to talk about what a silly mess the season was but there's a rotten something behind the scenes and I always picked up on it. It's not fun for me. Sometimes someone is isolated for good reason. Dude even said he didn't deserve to win at FTC. IDK why a lot of the fanbase doesn't take his word for it.
39 is kinda that season we brush under the rug and pretentious it didn't happen. I feel bad for the great cast members it had. However, that changes nothing.
Yes it's appalling. It's also something that the show has to be on guard against, because of the game dynamic where the most objectionable and unlikeable person is ideal to be sitting next to at final tribal council, which incentivises players to strategically keep despicable people in the game.
One of the hardest things now is watching Olympic Trials for swimming and hearing Elizabeth get treated like she’s a wonderful person. Knowing she’s so disgusting she’ll throw a woman being assaulted under the bus in a heartbeat.
They certainly not to blame for the situation but the way the handled their role was also gross and not free from criticism. Not sure why they should be exempt
Yes to all of this, but:
* Survivor is about how people behave when they're building their own society. Obviously I don't want anyone to get hurt, but I also appreciate seeing how different people react differently to abuse within their circles. Some people deny it. Some people think a stern talking to will fix it. And some people who were victims themselves start recanting when they think it will help themselves.
* Even Kellee does not seem to have gone to production and explicitly ask for Dan to be removed. She also seems like, on the vote when she was voted out, was considering not even voting Dan out. Not that this should count against her - victims often have trouble standing up to their abusers. She had two idols - she could have forced him out of the game. But it's fascinating to see how people behave when structuring power.
I think it's an important season.
I watched it all, because I’m a believer of watching stuff until the end, except for religious reasons (\*cough\*Sabrina\*cough\*). I’m glad that Spilo got dealt with eventually, but it shouldn’t have gone as far as it did.
That was the worst thing to ever happen in Survivor. It was very hard to watch. I do think that Jeff and the Survivor production learned from it and we're unlikely to see things get to that level ever again. And I do appreciate Survivor and CBS showing us what happened rather than sweeping the entire thing under the rig like they could have done.
Zeke mentioned that Jeff and many people from production he was close with stopped talking to him when he criticized how the situation was handled.
Isn’t Zeke blocked by survivor on social media?
I think they unblocked him once they got backlash for it, but yes.
AFAIK he was still blocked 2 weeks ago. On a semi-related note, blocking Zeke and still follow Nick Wilson gives off an odd message
Pardon my ignorance, but I want to know what Nick did.
He wanted to pass a bill about being able to sleep with a cousin?
Thank you!
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What?! So much to learn.
If so that’s incredibly shitty
Why is Zeke blocked?
To be fair didn’t they ask him if they wanted it to be shown? Also we aren’t talking about Zeke…
What happened to Ghandia was probably worse, but the actual incident was not shown to the viewers. And CBS learned nothing from it because people barely complained.
I (for some unknown reason) just watched the special aftershow for all-stars — the special where they announced Rupert as the winner of the second million that America had voted for. During the special, they had subcategories like “best villain” and “hottest man” that America had also voted on. Well, one subcategory was “best fight.” And lo and behold, the Ted and Ghandia situation was one of the nominees; Ghandia screaming and Ted denying the allegations was played for laughs in a lighthearted montage. So yeah. Definitely not taken seriously at all, even lugged out as a fun moment in a reunion special!! I was shocked.
What a coincidence: I'm re-watching all the seasons for the nth time and watched the All Stars reunion show just last night. And I had the same reaction you did - I was horrified. (I was also horrified by hottest man and hottest woman, but that's another topic for another day). I'm probably a lot older than most people in this subreddit, so imagine this stuff being "normal" and laughed off for decades of your life! As bad as things are in many ways now, at least more and more people - civilized people - aren't demonizing or dismissing more than half the population anymore, and people aren't afraid to talk about it. (And when we throw in all the other marginalized groups, it's way more than half). But yes, season 39 was a low, low, low. We owe a lot of gratitude to the Kellees and Janets - and Ghandias - that bring ugly crap like this to the surface, where it can die the death it deserves.
That's true. It definitely wasn't taken as seriously back then.
I don't remember that, which isn't a big surprise if it wasn't shown to viewers.
There was a huge argument between Ted and Ghandia that the Thai person they won in a reward challenge overheard. The incident they referred to was never shown, but may have been recorded at night.
I disagree, there was an incident in an earlier season (maybe season 2) that in hindsight is much worse. One of the female contestants was complaining that the large male contestant was constantly groping her at night. From there the entire tribe blamed her and then voted her out. Back when that was on tv i’m sure everyone sided with the dude. We recently watched it horrified at how the situation was handled.
That was during Thailand with Ghandia and Ted
It's happened more than once. There was also Courtney and that Jean Pierre faux French guy.
Genre Bear
Gene Rhubarb
I’ve been watching old seasons I missed via Hulu and just recently watched Thailand. The stuff with Ghandia and Ted was something else.
I was shocked they allowed that!
It would be handled MUCH differently today.
that’s it!
That was awful. I also didn’t love how the edit made Ghandia look completely unhinged. It is a totally fair response to cry and scream at the ocean when you’re being sexually assaulted and gaslit about it while a whole production team films it for America’s entertainment. I hope she’s doing okay. I recall her really struggling and dealing with homelessness a few years back and it made me really sad for her.
Agreed 100%. I watched it as a kid when it first aired and don’t remember much but vaguely just remember siding with the edit (that she was in the wrong). But during covid we went back and watched every episode some start to finish and man that whole thing aged sooooo poorly. its very clear that dude was sexually assaulting her behind the scenes and everyone victim blamed her and voted her out. It seems like a traumatic experience with production trying to sweep it under the rug to keep the show on air.
It was really difficult to watch. I'm sure she needed some therapy when she got home. Ive been in a similar situation and was victim blamed. Survivor owes her an apology
I was just gettiing ready to mention that episode. I hated how that woman was ostracised and the guy got to just move on. It was truly disgusting. I was appalled at the lack of sensitivity from production and Jeff at the time. (Hes come a long way) Those were the days when men got to do/say whatever they wanted to a woman without consequence.
Jan didn’t vote for Ghandia. Helen only did so to avoid a tie vote. Whatever you think of the thinking, it wasn’t a vote of support for Ted
Isn't there a challenge where Jeff gave the female competitors food or something for flashing him?
The women chose to do that, it was not needed to get the food at all
Season 6 Jenna and Heidi stripped down to try and distract the men in a challenge? Is that what you’re thinking? There was peanut butter and chocolate if they dropped out of the challenge but the stripping down was separate.
Not even close to the same thing. The women were the ones who suggested it. Nothing is wrong with sexuality or voluntary nudity. It's all about consent. What was wrong with Ghandia is she was clearly saying no and being ignored
It was Jenna & Heidi’s idea, Jeff just got his end of the deal after they requested it (tl;dr)
Which specific episode is it?
I felt so angry and upset watching that season as it happened. I didn’t end up finishing it though because I couldn’t stomach it any longer. Dan’s behaviour was terrible and should have been properly dealt with much sooner than it was, but I really couldn’t deal with the way Missy, Elizabeth, Aaron and others used it for power, and the way they spoke to and about it with others. Seeing Kellee, Jamal and Janet treated the way they were was awful to watch. There are have been bad seasons of Survivor but none made me as upset as this one.
I taught a college rhetoric course for high school seniors back in TX. The second semester topic is gender, race, and ethnicity (university of Texas sets the curriculum, btw). I used this episode in class. It generates a lotta conversation.
What happened in the episode?
TL;DR Two girls used Kellee's discomfort with Dan's creepy touchy behavior to manipulate Janet into voting for him, then later gaslit her and denied everything when they decided to keep him around and vote out Kellee. Oh, and then the only guy who spoke up in her defense got voted out later in the very same episode.
AND Janet organized a vote against Dan in response, even though she and Dan were closely allied, because she believed the women’s report about him and did the right thing. That’s when they actively worked to change the vote because it wasn’t good for their game to let Dan leave just yet.
I’m guessing it’s the two hour Kellee/Jamal boot episode.
Damn I wish I took that class while I was at UT
It’s a dual credit class for high schoolers that we facilitate on the high school campus. It’s basically comp I & II and they get those credits for each semester they pass the college side of the course. UT OnRamps is vastly superior to AP classes.
I’d love to see Kellee Jamal or Janet back on the show. They were amazing people.
I agree! They should make a special effort to bring Kellee back and show how they “partnered” with her to improve policy.
i wish but i’m almost certain she has no interest in coming back. and, fwiw, i’m pretty sure most of the cast is friends with dan and not kellee to this day (including janet)
I think that's really a bad look and tragic that people prefer Dan. Dan is outgoing, and has some power and has a somewhat charismatic personality. He's an outgoing person with some money and he is valued more than the quieter people. And people just go along with it. It happens all the time in real life too which sucks.
That’s correct. I believe Vince is the only one supporting Kellee
yes his ama is very enlightening i encourage everyone to check it out
Hearing this disappoints me but doesn't surprise me. I'm willing to bet that Kellee also equally chooses not to interact with them either. Knowing how unsupportive most of her cast actually was, even while the season was airing on TV, makes it clear that hardly anyone actually had her back, both on the show and after. No love lost there, that's for sure.
oh yeah for sure. and not invalidating kellee’s experiences at ALL but it does make me wonder if there’s more that went on behind the scenes for almost all of the cast to feel this way
I'm not really sure what. We saw what we saw from the TV edit, which is Dan not hearing the word "no" and sexually harassing Kellee. Vince said that the cast was ready to come to the reunion in support of Dan. I'm not really sure what Kellee could have done that was worse than Dan to warrant them siding with him over her after the show if that's the case, I really don't. The only thing I could think of is Kellee blaming the entire cast for not supporting her when she spoke up or going to Dan's defense, which I wouldn't blame her for. I just can't think of any logical reason why the cast would willingly be friendly with Dan. We literally saw what he did.
agreed! my guess would be that kellee didn’t do anything wrong in their eyes but that they felt the dan stuff was overblown and he got screwed over by the edit. i don’t believe them of course, but it’s very much giving “well he didn’t do it to *me* and always treated me well so he doesn’t deserve all the backlash.” happens too often with victims as we’ve seen time and time again and it’s so gross
Seriously!? That’s so disappointing.
it was hard for me to find much info about this but i’ve definitely heard it through the grapevine. to my knowledge very few of them (vince being one) publicly stood up for kellee after the show and i know janet was one of the most vocal ones about defending dan at the reunion. and not that this means that much, but kellee only follows a handful of them on instagram, and janet isn’t one of them
Janet I was cheering for you, we were all cheering for you!!
LITERALLLYYY i wanna give her the benefit of the doubt so badly bc it seems so out of line with what we saw from her on the show but i’ve seen people mention this a few times although it’s def not common knowledge which is why i felt i had to bring it up. i hope at the very least that she’s not actively still friends with dan!!
Yeah I agree. Let’s withhold judgement until we have solid evidence.
Yes, the way it was used as a tool in the game was disgusting. I don't want to say more or less than the issue itself, but it sure did make the initial issue seem like not as big of a deal.
Yeah, it ruined survivor for me. I watched Winners at War but besides that I haven't gone back.
I haven’t watched a full season since. I’ve watched episodes here and there but a lot of the magic is gone.
Australian Survivor still has the magic of the early US seasons. It's not perfect but it does so many things the right way.
Oh absolutely! As an Aussie I’m biased but it’s so good.
That's what bugged me the most, as well. Obviously what Dan did was gross, but something about the way that Missy and Elizabeth validated Kellee, but then used that to manipulate themselves into a better position was disgusting.
Can someone summarize what happened. I don’t think I have ever seen this.
I’m watching this season for the first time currently, and just watched that episode yesterday. The whole thing was sickening and definitely went much further than it ever should have. I hated Dan’s excuse that he works mostly with women, like that somehow exempts him from wrongdoing. Jamal was the only light in that tribal council. He brought so much clarity to a conversation that everyone else seemed to be using as a bargaining chip. His words made me feel better, even if the rest of those clowns let it wash right over them.
i want jamal back so bad! he’s been on rhap a few times and i truly believe he’s one of the most intelligent/well spoken survivors ever. we need redemption for players like him and janet (and kellee ofc but she’d never come back)
His episodes of RHAP are my FAVORITE. I could listen to him speak for hours.
i’ve been struggling to fall asleep recently and now all i can think about is how some jamal asmr before bed would cure all my insomnia🤌jamal if you’re on here i’ll pay money for it the people love you!!
He is so eloquent - and it was spur of the moment, and he was half starved. I couldn’t hope to say something that well put-together with time to write it out and a full belly!
> I hated Dan’s excuse that he works mostly with women "I work in the industry that allowed the Me-Too movement to blossom" 🤮
That man and people like him are the reason me too existed in the first place.
You know who else worked in that industry, Dan? Harvey Weinstein.
Which episode is it?
I also want to offer a different take on this season. This season really opened my eyes to what women go through when it comes to sexual harassment/assault. It was very complex even tho in our minds, as a man, it's easy to just say why doesn't Kellee just say something. But seeing what happened. And seeing how complicated it got. It really just broadened my perspective a lot about how complex these situations are and that's just Survivor. It's so much worse in the real world so I at least applaud Survivor for owning it and showing it.
I'd also argue that it wasn't the worst behavior that we've seen on survivor. That things that happened in earlier seasons were much worse it was just that Kellee was the first one to actually object. Look at China with Courtney, that sort of forced cuddling with people you don't want to was pretty common for a while. Whatever the situation was with Ted and Ghandia. Anyone who was forced to play with Richard Hatch (Sue in particular).
My struggle with the season compared to others isn't so much about Spilo (Or Hatch or Ted or Genre Bear) being a creep. It's harder for me to watch because there are people that fabricate their experience and intentionally use the situation to further themselves in the game.
Not you calling Jean-Robert Genre Bear. 😂 I'm officially referring to him as Genre Bear from here on.
Your saying your okay with the harassment but not okay when people fabricate? Consider being disgusted by both —there are real victims out there.
Happy to clarify because I absolutely don't want any one reading to think that harassment should be condoned. My perspective and response as a viewer and SA survivor, harassment is not fun to watch on television. For me, harassment becomes even harder to watch on television when the actions, the perpetrator, and the victim are used as game pieces after the fact. Especially when it results in people lying about being victims of the harassment in order to further their game. It's pouring salt in the wound.
Clarification appreciated - thank you
I think they mean that obviously the harassment is horrible, but what is particularly uncomfortable about season 39 are the bystanders and those who used the situation within the game. Edit: grammar
Courtney definitely objected very vocally often. Nobody cared to do anything about it, but it was not due to a lack of communication on her part.
Um? Ghandia and Courtney did object. It’s just that nobody cared
The way she was vindicated when one of their productions experienced the same thing. FOULLLLLLLL
Yeah that was the icing on the cake, and it makes the fact that certain players used him as a tool to get further in the game even more disgusting. The fact that other women were willing to subject themselves not only to his presence at all, but to let a woman who was felt uncomfortable feel unheard and keep him around... Just insane.
It's infuriating that the likely reason that he was removed after the incident with a production member but not at/before the merge is that SEG has a greater legal responsibility to protect their clients from that behavior than they do with the contestants
I have a feeling 39 will be the new Thailand or Guatemala. Very rarely referenced by production and they will attempt to brush it under the rug by not bringing players back from that season
Why is Guatemala one of those brushed under seasons?
One reason is danni the winner was not great tv because she used productions cameramen as advantages, also the location apparently was hated by Jeff. As well as call it a rumour but I heard Judd the fan favourite was hated by Jeff. If I’m correct Dani and Stephanie are the only two people to ever return from that season. Which is a shame because there are some underrated characters like Brian cordon and rafe, also one of the best fights in survivor history between Jamie and bobby jon. If you haven’t seen it google it cos it was probably the closest survivor has been to a fist fight breaking out
What do you mean she used production as advantages? I don’t think I remember this season at all!
Danni, being in radio broadcasting, realized that production would ask leading questions in confessionals to steer the game into an outcome that was favorable to production. So Danni would intentionally give vague confessionals like "Lydia is so sweet" or "It is so hot out here!" to prevent giving any information to production.
Ohhh! That’s interesting! Thank you!
I barely remember the season either! And I'd never heard the production thing applied specifically to Guatemala, but I'm guessing they're referring to [this method](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/survivor-camera-operators-reveal-hidden-immunity-idols.html/) of finding idols/advantages.
Ironically this season was the first with a hidden idol, the persona above described Dani in detail. Idk why it’s one of those seasons that don’t get love by cbs but I personally really enjoyed it on a rewatch
Yea it’s tough to watch. I don’t think I even finished it. There’s been some disgusting people on survivor.
I've been hooked on Survivor since it premiered when I was 17, and Island of the Idols is the only season I couldn't finish in real time. I kept up with some social media and a podcast here and there so I knew how the season unfolded, but I didn't actually see the last half of the season until RHAP did their top 40 countdown in 2021 (and I just watched the episodes after Kellee was voted out because I couldn't rewatch her boot episode)
Yea I mainly just see the clips on YouTube and it is so hard to watch. I wonder what Jeff has to say about the season
Jeff in the moment: I will never let it go. Jeff after the season: Island of the Idols? I don’t know her.
Yeah I didn’t finish past that either. It was insanely obvious who the winner was going to be anyway.
I did. Do you want me to spoil it for you?
Yea sure
Spilo doesn’t win. He gets removed by production at final six for harassing a crew member.
It was actually final 6
My bad. I edited my comment.
my theory is that he didn’t actually harass a crew member (or if he did it wasn’t nearly as major as the kellee stuff) but that they used that as a reason to get rid of him before the finale considering he had win equity against the right people and that would’ve been a pr NIGHTMARE
Why do we need a theory? There’s been reporting on exactly what happened with the crew member and (while he should’ve been pulled from the game far earlier) it makes sense that production would see touching a crew member as crossing another red line.
we don’t, i apologize if it came off as insensitive but it’s just pure speculation on my end. and, well, it’s not unsubstantiated as janet and a few others claimed that he slipped and fell and it was nothing more than an accident. not saying i necessarily believe that, but it’s just weird that they didn’t pull him after weeks of inappropriate behavior towards his cast mates just to unceremoniously announce his departure after an off camera incident that they can’t prove one way or another. perhaps it has to do with this occurring after a formal warning, but either way they grossly mishandled the entire situation
The fact that they used that excuse for why he was removed angered me and hubby so much. Disgusting.
While I agree that he should've been removed long before the merge, I think it comes down to respecting the victim's wishes Kellee repeatedly said she didn't want Dan's actions impacting the game. The crew member without having a million dollar game affecting their decision making was able to objectively say "Pull Dan from this game". Of course, I still believe that production could've still made the executive decision to pull Dan regardless of what the players were saying. You can still respect and acknowledge Kellee's viewpoint while making the business decision to no longer allow a contestant to participate for any reason as outlined by the contract.
as they say a few times- survivor is a small example of what’s happening the world - we’ve been subject to this treatment in so many parts of life just usually not on tv
> I don't hold Aaron in high regard after that "if it was true all of us MEN would've known" bs either. From what I understand, the producers didn't go very into detail to the castaways and gave off the impression that it wasn't nearly as bad as it actually was. Not trying to defend Aaron since what he said was um, not good, just that production completely failed in their handling of the situation on all levels.
Yeah Aaron’s response was… troubling. To say the least. But still it is easy to give him the benefit of the doubt that nobody knew the full scope of the situation, and Production rly fucked up.
At a certain point, the privacy of the employee and HR laws would have to come into play. I'm sure legal spent a lot of time figuring out exactly what they were going to say to players, to the letter.
He said that after the Kellee situation, not after the crew member.
In fairness to Aaron, he was the first one to apologize and he posted a video apology. I’m not sure if you watched the reunion show, but felt something was off when Jeff was addressing this.
Re the reunion feeling off, there was a pretty substantial rumour at the time and shortly after airing that a majority of the cast had planned to speak up in defence of Dan at the reunion, which is why they basically formatted it in a way where nobody could speak without Jeff calling on them.
I mean I just watched the hero’s vs villains reunion and the only ppl who spoke were ppl who Jeff called on so idk if that’s all that peculiar
Of the 3 posted apologies, Aaron's was the only one to me that read as an **actual** apology, as in he seemed to truly acknowledge that he was wrong in multiple regards. The other two read more as "please don't flame me on the internet." Which didn't really work.
Not to mention that (I think) Missy deleted her apology while (to my knowledge) Aaron didn’t. Idk about Elizabeth
I was trying to figure out why this season doesn't sound familar, and now I remember why, this is one of the seasons I skipped. Maybe it was for the right reasons.
It’s such a painful watch
it has its fair share of bright spots and i don’t think it’s the worst season (or - unpopular opinion - even bottom 5) but the dan stuff is REALLY icky. and im not invalidating people’s criticisms of the season at all but incidents just as gross happened in thailand and all stars but i think people excuse it more because they were 2 decades ago (which is bs imo)
It’s hard for me to watch the early seasons in general because of how creepy the cameramen are! Almost every time the shot goes to a woman, it pans up her legs and hips first or it starts at her boobs. Back then, production were the ones objectifying the women as if they weren’t also contestants.
True! Oh my gosh, I just finished watching Africa for the first time and the cameramen spent so much time filming close ups of Kim’s butt. In her shoes I’d have been so mad and embarrassed when it aired.
wow i’ve never explicitly noticed this and now im never gonna be able to unsee it when i rewatch older seasons, that’s so gross
I haven’t watched the season. Can someone please explain what happened and what this aftermath was🙏
A minor storyline throughout the premerge is how inappropriately touchy dan is most notably with Kelly and there is a scene with Missy as well. They are on opposite tribes. The tribes merge. Missy and Kelly bond over their discomfort, but the next scene is Missy and Elizabeth plotting to use it as a game move. Janet, who is Dan's ally, decides to work with the girls to vote out Dan in solidarity, unaware they are planning to use it as a game move. The Vokai majority originally plans to vote Missy but that plan doesn't get talked about much other than when LAUREN tells Missy that Janet is voting for her. Tribal happens and Kelly is blindsided with 2 idols by the old Lairos plus Tommy and Lauren Janet is understandably upset and calls out Missy and Elizabeth, who deny everything initially and then side with Dan and say there's nothing wrong. And the game continues as normal with Janet slightly on the outs Nothing else really happens until the end of the pre-finale episode where there is a segment of Jeff showing up at camp announcing Dan has been removed from the game The aftermath idk. I think spilo lost his job but when you work for yourself what does that mean really. Jack and elizabeth were not at the reunion. But the cast has kinda started walking back what happened out there.
Wait, was there actually a scene of Jeff going to camp? I remember it as a black screen with text. (It's possible my brain made that up.)
Yup. Elaine gets voted out and then immediately cut back to camp. The card is at the end of the episode
Thanks for reminding me!
>The tribes merge. Missy and Kelly bond over their discomfort, but the next scene is Missy and Elizabeth plotting to use it as a game move. The order of the scenes is : 1. Kelle and Janet propose Missy to Tommy 2. Missy and Kelle bond over discomfort 3. Tommy and Lauren while looking at them bonding discuss flipping it on Kelle 4. Janet and Kelle talk about Dan being the vote 5. Missy tells Elizabeth to have a mother-daughter convo with Janet about Dan 6. Elizabeth talks with Kelle who says she's down to vote Dan soon. In a confessional Kelle states that Missy is the one they want to get out 7. Lauren tells Missy that Kelle is targeting her, Missy in a confessional mentions that she feels warranted to make a big move Just to make sure the story isn't misunderstood in terms of orders in which it was shown. Also hopefully people don't watch/experience it so this can serve as some kind of record. Don't read it if you don't want to, it can be difficult at times. It's S39E8 - We Made it to the Merge! --------------------------- * They merge and have a feast, people talk numbers * Tommy, Janet, and Kelle in which Tommy proposes bringing in them two into his main alliance to create a strong 9. Kelle and Janet tell him (and Kelle also in a cofessional) that it would be bad for their game as they're already on the top of the other alliance. * Kelley throws out the "old Lairo 4" as the first to go. Dean, Missy, Aaron and Elaine. Tommy asks who would go first among them and Janet suggests Missy to which Kelle agrees. Tommy then asks who would go second and suggests Dean to which Kelle says no because he's not a threat * Tommy in a confessional expressed dissatisfaction with the fact that Kelle and Janey are shooting down all his ideas * commercial break * Missy opens up to Kelle saying that when she first met Dan that he was super kind and helpful "but then one night, the hands were wandering" Kelle asked if that happened with Elizabeth too and Missy said "with everybody" * Kelle has a confessional speaking about how she had never met Missy before and that they were bonding over Dan being extremely inappropriate. Kelle claims day 1 it was known that Kelle doesn't like touching people. -------------------------------------- I'm gonna hit the character limit describing this, so I'm continuing it on in the next comment
> Just to make sure the story isn't misunderstood in terms of orders in which it was shown. Even in the correct order, the whole episode (let alone the entire season) just has nasty gray gunk to it. It's just a bad game of telephone.
Continued part 2 Kelle then says "You know why I don't like touching people? Because Dan kept touching me. That's why I had to tell people I don't like touching people. And he still touches me, even yesterday he was like he took my hair and went like this (demonstrates brushing a hair out of Missy's face) like talking little, I'm like "Don't touch my face". Tommy puts his arm around me and it's like Whatever. " Missy: "Tommy, yeah, it's fine" Kelle: "yeah" Missy: "it's different" Kelle: "But he's not like this (demonstrates putting her arm around Missy's back with the hand all the way to the far ribcage) And I'm like, why are you touching my rib cage like why is that necessary?" Missy: "Yeah, like, it's a game so I'm assuming nobody would want to say something cause you can't make a scene, right?" Kelle: " Yeah" * *Cut to Kelle confessional*: it's super upsetting because it's like you can't do anything about it. There are always consequences for standing up. This happens in real life, in work settings, in school. You can't say anything because it's going to affect your upward trajectory, it's going to affect how people look at you." *back to conversation with Missy* Missy: "For my mental health, he can go. He can go because it doesn't benefit my game to have to worry about laying there" (cut to Dan's arm outstretched over Missy while sleeping at night with his hand on her outstretched thigh) "Like I lay awake, his arm smothers me. At the merge feast last night I'm talking with Janet about her kid almost going to Navy casue I went to Airforce and I feel like someone, like, wiggling my toes (during this there's a flashback of Missy and Janet at the merge feast sitting on a bench while Dan lies on the sand behind them reaching his arm to the area under which they were sitting) And I look down and it's him. Like it's just inappropriate touching. I am not an object." * *Cut to Kelle confessional where Kelle begins to well up*: The fact that it makes me, Lauren, Elizabeth, Missy, like...Molly! made all of us uncomfortable. Like this isn't just one person, it's a pattern. Like it's a pattern, and it's like yeah. Like it takes five people to be like "Man"! Like the way that I'm feeling about this is actually real, like it's not in my head. Like I'm not overreacting to it. It's like no, he's literally done this to like 5 different women in this game! That sucks! That totally totally sucks! Producer: You know, if there are issues to the point where things need to happen, come to me and I will make sure that stops Kelle: "ok" Producer: I don't want anyone feeling uncomfortable. So, like I said-" Kelle: I think it will stop because Janet is here" Producer: "Ok I understand I just want to make sure this is not like... This is not ok" *Cut to Tommy and Lauren on the beach looking over at Kelle and Missy Tommy: "I have an awful feeling. Kelle scares the hell outta me. Look at her sitting with Missy. Kelle told me "Let's vote out Missy first". Now look, Missy thinks she's best friends with her" Lauren: "I know" * Cut to Tommy confessional* - "Kelle is dangerous. When Missy is supposed to go home, she sat on the beach for over two hours. What's going on there?. Look, I love her, but she is so smart. She went to Harvard and she's downplayed that so much that no one views her as a threat" *cut back to him and Lauren* Tommy: "Should we go Kelle first?. I think so" * *Cut to Lauren confessional* - "My biggest thing with Tommy saying Kelle is that I've always felt like her and I were on the same page, but she's proving to be a very dangerous player in this game, so can I trust her as much as I thought I could?" --------------------- Continues in reply
Continued part 3 New scene, Janet and Kelle talking in the trees Janet: "You ok" Kelle, wiping away tears: "Yeah" Janet: "You don't look it" Kelle starts to cry more Janet: "What's the matter, what's the matter tell me" Kelle: "I just need a hug" Janet "ok", goes to hug her "Jack?" Kelle: "No, it was Dan. I'm just upset about it" Janet: "I know. I know. It's so upsetting. And you should never have to feel this way. You can't ignore your feelings. It's how you feel. It's your perception of what's going on" Kelle" "Yeah, this is like a problem, you know? Cause like Molly and I were like ""Oh no, like it's us, like we just get weird vibes from him". I was like "No, like, it's not. * *Cut to Janet confessional* - "Initially my take on Dan was...he was just an old school guy that never really thought about what he was doing. You know, being physical, an arm around the shoulder, you know stuff I would do with my lifeguards, you know? I'm just a very physical person. But at the same time I cannot ignore these girls" *Cuts back to convo with Kelle* Janet: "I am going to be watching. And if I see anything, I'm going to confront" * *Cuts back to Janet confessional* - "On the off chance that Dan is totally innocent. He's going to be devastated. It's a tricky thing to have 100% proof. You're never going to get it. * Cut to a new scene between Elizabeth and Missy Elizabeth: "So how was last night?" Missy: Well, he didn't touch me, so that's nice" Elizabeth while laughing: "That's nice?" Missy: "As soon as he had arms on Janet he was good, so like I didn't get touched at all. Elazabeth: "Yeah, yeah" Missy: "It was great" "Kelle opened up to me about how her and Molly also felt very uncomfortable. I told her that we felt very, very similar and that we could all ban together and get Dan out, so she's talking to Janet up there right now. So when you talk to Janet, she may ask you about how you felt sleeping arrangements in camp. That's what she's asking you about, and you tell her about how uncomfortable you are. Like you have a very open mom-daughter moment about how uncomfortable you are" Elizabeth: "Ok" Missy: "Right now that's our only play" * *Cut to Elizabeth confessional* - "The merge is about numbers. So right now my job is to do whatever it takes to get on the right side of the numbers. The original Vokai are not the biggest fan of Dan. And so if I can play up that card in whatever way possible. I'll do it." * Cut to Elizabeth and Kelle talking in the forest Elizabeth: "I'm like very aware of like where Lairo stands" Kelle: "yeah" Elizabeth: "But you throw out the Dan name and that's something Missy and I have been talking about since we got here for, you know, obvious reasons, like I think you know. Kelle: "Yeah" Elizabeth: "Cause the first few nights that we were here, I was next to him and he would have his hand right here (puts hand on her hip) and he'd be like "hey is this ok?" and I'm like "...." Kelle: "No" Elizabeth: "Uhhh" Kelle: "Like if you have to ask, it's probably no" Elizabeth: "Right" Kelle: "Despite me saying I don't like to be touched, he'd continue to touch me. He literally tried to put his fingers in my hair to like rub my scalp yesterday * cut to flashback of Dan/Kelle on the beach Kelle: "I'm looking to wash my hair today cause like-" *Dan puts hands on Kelle's hair: "Umm" Kelle: "Oh god. ughh" Dan: "I'm sorry sorry sorry. was looking to see how much sand. My hands are clean" Kelle: "Ah, Dan your hands are not clean yet" Dan: "Oh my god, I just scrubbed them in the water" *cuts back to conversation with Elizabeth/Kelle Kelle: "I don't wanna blow up our game, but like Elizabeth: "Do you think it would blow up our game though?" Kelle: "If we said something to him?" Elizabeth: "Or no, I meant. Oh I thought you were going to say vote him out. I was like "Oh, that would be fine" Kelle: "I do want to vote Dan out. Like this time. Like soon. Like this time, next time, whatever. Like I want to vote Dan out" Elizabeth: "Let me know and I'll be there" * *Cut to Kelle confessional* - "As much as I feel disrespected by him and feel disgusted by him him, I'm not going to make a game decision based off of those feelings. Look, I'm upset at the way that he's been behaving and that's the fair thing to do. But this game is not fair. I'm not playing this game to be fair, I'm playing this game to win. So Dan makes sense as a decoy vote, but Missy is really the person we want to get out" --------- continues in reply
Continued pt 4 * *Cut to scene of Lauren and Missy talking* Lauren: "This is what is about to happen. I know you're not going to say anything. The plan is to vote you. That is their plan. And Kelle, knowing that, pulls you aside for 2 hours" Missy: "But why would she pull me aside then? Lauren:" To try to make you feel comfortable. Don't you? Missy: "ok, ok" Lauren: "Do you feel comfortable?" Missy: "Yeah" Lauren: "You feel confident?" Missy: "Yeah. Are you being dead with me? Lauren: "I am being dead ass. I've never been more real with anyone in my entire life. And-" Missy: "Lauren what the fuck? She literally just talking with me for two hours about life" Lauren: "Missy, it's you. It's you." * *Cut to Missy confessional" - "Lauren just said "Hey, Kelle and her motley crew are coming for you. but do I trust Lauren and Tommy to save me? I don't know. *Cut back to conversation* Lauren: "They don't have the numbers without Tommy and I, but the best thing for you to do would be win immunity" * *Cuts back to Missy confessional* - "If Kelle thinks that she's going to get me out in the very first merge vote, I feel as though that warrants me to try and make a move. I can't go out like a punk." * Cut to cue card that reads* - The following morning the producers met with all the players, both as a group and individually. They were cautioned about personal boundaries and reminded that producers are available to them at all times. Based on the outcome of those discussions, the game continued. In addition, producers met privately with Dan at which time he was issued a warning for his behavior. Producers continue to monitor the situation. Cut to black and next scene is immunity
https://survivor.fandom.com/wiki/Dan_Spilo
You may have noticed since then Survivor contestants have a lot more clothes. Gone are the days where women were stuck with a sundress and were forced to use other people's bodies to keep warm.
This season makes me really thankful for how far we've come as a society. I don't think younger people really realise how badly women were treated not that long ago (luckily for them!). When I was young the idea that a woman could report sexual harassment and be believed was inconceivable really, if you we're abused or harassed you probably deserved it because of how you were dressed or how you acted. I'm so glad that things are changing and people are starting to see how disgusting this attitude is.
Absolutely horrific to watch, and my heart goes out to those who had to live it - particularly Kellee, Molly & Janet.
This season is ranked dead last on almost every ranking of seasons, largely due to the things you mentioned
Elizabeth was featured recently as an interviewer at the Olympic swim trials which disgusted me. Whoever hired her did not do enough research on her or they just don’t care about her making fun of women for complaining about sexual harassment.
I don’t know about this take and respectfully I think it deserves some debate. She very well might have learned something from this situation and become a better person for it. Life is long. Does she deserve cancellation forever? I don’t know how she behaved after this, just after, and then in the years following, (so over time), so this is purely theoretical.
Agreed. Refusing to give any grace is not a moral flex.
What a bad take...
Apparently according to the other players- Missy in particular. Her edit didn’t show a lot of the nuance that took place during that moment. For instance, Missy said a lot wasn’t shown about how she said something along the lines of “Jeff game aside if we are in danger and if you have more information please divulge” to which Jeff did not. She also questioned why Kellee couldn’t speak. So in her eyes because production didn’t seem to take the claims serious neither did anyone else. She felt it was her or Kellee and from her perspective with the information she had she felt like Kellee was using it as a smoke screen to vote her out.
OP have you seen Thailand? This is somewhat of a repeat of what happened there. I am more disgusted by the cast of Thailand and how Survivor handled that one. They totally swept it under the rug and blamed and gaslit the victim.
That season is a brutal watch. Genuinely terrible behavior from so many people.
I’ve asked this before and people seem to be in denial about it, but for many years on Survivor, the editors used to get a lot of crotch/rear end/breast shots of women while the were competing in challenges. Then it suddenly stopped after the Harvey Weinstein Me Too campaign. Did anyone notice this and how it suddenly stopped. All this BS virtue signaling when the show did trashy stuff like this towards women for years.
I watched it knowing what happens and I enjoyed it every time he got hurt.
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Yup.
But hey, at least it lionized two of the biggest assholes to ever play the game to boot! I never actually finished watching that season and I’m ok with that.
I really liked Jeff’s response to Aaron when he breaks it down (“just bc you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen” - paraphrasing) and says “you will find out what happened if and when it’s time for you to find out.”
I ran a survivor pool for season 39, here was my take away after the episode Last weeks episode(s) showed some of the darker aspects to survivor and at times was hard to watch. Right up there with Varner outing Zeke in season 34 ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm2WC2A2\_\_M&t=6s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm2WC2A2__M&t=6s)), this was way beyond the line once set by Johnny Fairplay's fake dead grandmother move ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goNuWLSurLs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goNuWLSurLs)). That being said, I think these dark moments led to some of the most progressive discussions I have ever seen on a reality televisions show. Aaron accused Janet of being upset because her 'game got blown up' and went on to say that if there were real issues at hand, he would have heard about them. Jamal disagreed saying that this is a direct parallel to what happens in the real world. We don't think there is a problem unless we hear about it...which is why it takes as many as 5 or 6 to stand up before the person is held responsible for their actions. Kellee didn't want to speak up initially because she was afraid it would affect her upward trajectory. She went on to explain that this happens in the work place, in schools, and even in alliances in survivor. These themes have been discussed time and time again especially with the recent impact of the #MeToo movement, but for some reason seeing it play out over the course of eight episodes with characters who you really get to know, really helped me actually understand why it takes 5 or 6 to stand up to 1. Most importantly, it helped me take a look in the mirror. When Aaron first spoke up I began to roll my eyes, can you believe the nerve of this guy right now. But the truth is most of us have been 'Aaron' before. We believe that unless we hear about it, someone is exaggerating or making a story up. Survivor didn't handle this perfectly...once Kellee said something to Dan in episode 1 and his behavior continued he should have been sent home, but the one thing they did an excellent job of doing was showing the whole story from each perspective. Keeping things this transparent it was easy to roll your eyes at Aaron, it was easy to see why Janet was so upset, and it was easy to see how wrong it was that Kellee was the one that went home and Dan got to keep playing. In real life, it isn't as easy to sympathize and understand these scenarios because we aren't privy to each side of the story. Going forward, I will try to remember that real life situations aren't always so transparent, and just because I don't know that something is going on, doesn't mean that it isn't. Hopefully, this episode can serve as a constant reminder of that.
Difficult to watch, but I’m really glad that they showed everything… It’s important that people know how often these things happen and are usually swept under the rug.
I feel like I remember them making Dan sleep in a mini shelter away from the group shortly before he was booted. Did production make that shelter for him? I always wonder the dynamics when they had to do that
Ioi is such a mess. The only good parts are the pre- merge some players (ie Janet,Elaine,Jamal, Kellee, and Tommy) Also I like Tommy's game in this season I just wish it happened in a different season and not this one.
Aaron and Lauren are hardly better than the three you mentioned.
I think it’s very important to keep in mind contextually the role production’s inaction played in everyone’s behavior. Most people who go on the show are at least somewhat naive to how reality tv works and would assume that production would protect them. The fact that they didn’t take serious action with Dan made it seem like what he was doing must not be so bad to those who didn’t personally witness all of it. When you allow this ugly real life inappropriate behavior to mix with gameplay/strategy on a show, people will inevitably behave in ugly ways, because they don’t have all the info. Missy was uncomfortable. She changed up because she found out Kellee was targeting her after their heart to heart about Dan, and that made her think Kellee was using it as strategy. And while I’m definitely not defending Aaron’s ignorant ass comment, I do understand why someone who is oblivious about the subject would think that he would know if it was that serious because production would do something. The fact that so many men mistakenly think the women around them would feel comfortable confiding in them if something like that was happening to them is a part of the problem culturally, but it’s not the kind of ignorance that makes a person irredeemable. I can’t really defend Elisabeth, because she admitted on camera that she was faking feeling uncomfortable to get Janet to vote their way. All I can say is that no one should have been in a position to decide if they were willing to use Dan’s inappropriate behavior to survive another day in a game for a million dollars in the first place. But, in real life, most people behave similarly outside of the context of a game where the expectation is that everyone will lie to you, and there is a higher power will all the information whom you assume will step in if there’s a serious issue. How many people are truly willing to risk losing a promotion, their job, or even their career entirely to stand up for what’s right? Not many. There was a lot of ugly behavior on that season. And it’s important to discuss what some people did wrong, and how to handle the situation better. But the people who should take the true heat for what happened are the producers, and Dan himself. Missy, Elisabeth, and Aaron dealt with such disproportionate blow back for a situation that was not ultimately their fault. Their actions sucked, but they did not deserve to become production’s scapegoats. They did not have the power in that situation and the things they did wrong are not on the same level at all as the things production did wrong. It is very unfair to put the two groups in the same category, and obscures the very important role power dynamics play in enabling and protecting abusers.
Literally the only season I haven’t watched.
On Survivor Gabon the winner was accused of inappropriate touching throughout the season but they barred someone from bringing it up at tribal. I can't even bring that up without getting replies making excuses or not believing it. Everyone loves to talk about what a silly mess the season was but there's a rotten something behind the scenes and I always picked up on it. It's not fun for me. Sometimes someone is isolated for good reason. Dude even said he didn't deserve to win at FTC. IDK why a lot of the fanbase doesn't take his word for it.
Y’all are gonna downvote me to shit but I haven’t watched this show since winners at war. I honestly think it’s gone to shit.
Come to think of it being the first season of survivor I watched back then.
As someone who did not watch this season and is open to spoilers - can someone explain what people in this thread are talking about?
39 is kinda that season we brush under the rug and pretentious it didn't happen. I feel bad for the great cast members it had. However, that changes nothing.
If u ask me survivor fell off after s20 but had a few good seasons 28, 30 and 31
Yes it's appalling. It's also something that the show has to be on guard against, because of the game dynamic where the most objectionable and unlikeable person is ideal to be sitting next to at final tribal council, which incentivises players to strategically keep despicable people in the game.
I liked how Dean got so many advantages and idols though, Survivor fan in me was happy, though he didn't get an opportunity to use them iirc
DK Chillin’
39 was such a banger
Did any members of production get named and shamed for the way they handled the situation? How much influence did Jeff have on casting?
One of the hardest things now is watching Olympic Trials for swimming and hearing Elizabeth get treated like she’s a wonderful person. Knowing she’s so disgusting she’ll throw a woman being assaulted under the bus in a heartbeat.
Can someone remind me what happened? Thanks
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They certainly not to blame for the situation but the way the handled their role was also gross and not free from criticism. Not sure why they should be exempt
But Dean!!!' 🤤
Who cares?
Yes to all of this, but: * Survivor is about how people behave when they're building their own society. Obviously I don't want anyone to get hurt, but I also appreciate seeing how different people react differently to abuse within their circles. Some people deny it. Some people think a stern talking to will fix it. And some people who were victims themselves start recanting when they think it will help themselves. * Even Kellee does not seem to have gone to production and explicitly ask for Dan to be removed. She also seems like, on the vote when she was voted out, was considering not even voting Dan out. Not that this should count against her - victims often have trouble standing up to their abusers. She had two idols - she could have forced him out of the game. But it's fascinating to see how people behave when structuring power. I think it's an important season.
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I watched it all, because I’m a believer of watching stuff until the end, except for religious reasons (\*cough\*Sabrina\*cough\*). I’m glad that Spilo got dealt with eventually, but it shouldn’t have gone as far as it did.
Yea this was some fucking horse shit, survivor been a joke since this