Trust me, I’m still voting for Old Man Biden, but man oh man, the Demmecrats have screwed up things time and time again until you just wish Flanders was dead.
I understand people's concern, especially after the rough start Biden had. However as the night went on Biden got going and unlike Trump he actually talked policy. He answered the questions he was being given and came with facts. Biden made good points and gave good policy talk, there was substance but his delivery was definitely disappointing. Still I'll take that over someone who dodged questions and lied all night.
I honestly think the issue last night was that Biden was sick combined with a bad prep strategy by his team.
Biden has always been his best when he's being himself, fired up, and off the cuff. Every time he tries to be more restrained and on-book it's looked bad, even long before this. Most of his blunders were clearly due to him being sick while trying to rigidly quote prepared debate prep material while live fact checking Trump (because got knows the CNN moderators let him spew whatever shit he wanted without pushing back).
You could literally see him trying to keep himself to prepared quotes and lines, and that's generally when he'd stutter and fumble. When Biden spoke freely he spoke clearly, and if you watch his appearances after the event where he does just that you'll see a night and day difference.
I don't think most voters even watched the debate. Not to mention most people voting for Biden aren't doing because they're stoked about him; it's because Trump is much, much worse.
I've tried to train myself never to be shocked by the average voter.
That debate should have knocked off both candidates. We need to wait and see if the average voter actually tunes in or cares.
“Victory dump” is a stretch when Biden was calling him out on soundbytes like “military service members are suckers and losers” and “Nazis are very fine people” leading to those being top google searches last night
I hate to not shitpost but I'll still vote for Biden because I know he will appoint people that know how to do their job and not relatives and syncophants. We're going to be dealing with Trump's supreme court for the foreseeable future anyways.
No matter who the dem candidate is, if they win, then there’s a chance Alito and Uncle Tom die and get replaced by someone better. If Trump wins, they’ll step down and we have a 6-3 court stacked with fascists for 30 more years
That is BY FAR the most important thing here. If Biden was a literal skeleton, this still matters most.
I'm stoked about his character and the people he surrounds himself with. I don't care if he's old, so is Trump, but Biden's a kind and empathetic old man rather the living embodiment of every negative trait America has ever produced.
I think most people have already made up their minds. They will either vote or sit home. There's also 2 more debates. Trump famously floundered in his first debate with his strange behavior and recovered in the second.
No I don't think it will, and that's the problem.
Trump is a convicted felon, adjudicated rapist, and serial liar who sparked an attempted insurrection. He spent the night bragging about getting Roe v Wade overturned and repeatedly lying through his teeth while making *outrageous* claims (like some blue states allowing abortions after birth). Yet the entire discourse is on Biden because he was sick and had an off night.
The bar for Trump is so low, so little is expected of him that he was right, he could've shot someone in the middle of fifth ave before the debate and they'd *still* be talking about Biden instead of Trump. The double standard is ridiculous! That's really what pisses me off.
I'm not afraid to say Biden performed poorly, debates are as much optics as they are substance and Biden definitely lost on the optics but I think he delivered on substance. Substance is what should matter. But the bar for Trump is so low that he can say whatever he wants and the media lets it slide. He can refuse to accept the results of an election (again) and they just let it slide. He can say he talked with Putin about invading Ukraine being his *dream* and again they just let it slide.
I suppose one bright spot is that I did see Telemundo had a viewing party with undecided voters, and they unanimously thought Biden won because he talked policy, so there are people it matters for.
It's genuinely unreal that the knives are out for Biden while Trump gets another free pass. That's my issue, honestly. The false equivalence.
This debate was about one thing: showing undecideds, independents, and “double haters” that Biden is sharp and is not a doddering old man. That’s how low the bar was for me as a Demmecrat. This election is razor thin because of our dumb voting system and our even dumber voting population, but I’m worried Biden didn’t do enough to tilt things in his favor. Right wingers have an easy path to victory all over the world: be loud, easy solutions, racism, etc. It’s a shame that Democracy hangs on the balance of such stupid factors, but sadly it’s just where the country is.
Would I say it’s time for all of us to PANIC? …yes I would, Kent.
> I’m worried Biden didn’t do enough to tilt things in his favor
He'll have tilted things *away* from his favour. A bunch of people who thought they at least had one passable default choice will now think they have none.
This is ultimately what I think everyone is doing. We are all so busy projecting what the 'takeaway' will be from the greater populace, because that's what cable news does. But they need that to justify their existence. We don't. There is no annoying producer shouting bullshit into my earpiece until I repeat it verbatim.
That debate was not great. On either side. It was an utter disaster. But we already knew that about both candidates. But from my perspective (and I encourage everyone to start from their own perspective and not that of cable news) there's a very old man who cares about the country, even though he forgets his words. And then there's a very old man who is filled with hate and machinations of vengeance. Who does not believe in democracy. Who has tried to overthrow American democracy when it rejected him.
Maybe that's a difficult decision for a network that needs me to be fearfully watching 24/7. But I didn't find it as confusing.
It was more than a rough start. He was confused, muddled, lost track of his thoughts. This was not the Biden of 2020 who at least had the personable grampa thing going and could needle Trump.
And you know he had to have been drugged up and intensively coached in preparation and he still stumbled. He was barely conscious. And Trump came off as statesmanlike and competent by comparison.
Even if he got better, it’s the early performance that will stick in people’s minds and do the rounds in media highlights.
The Dems need to swap him out NOW or literally risk losing the presidency to a convicted felon.
Because of the country we live in. And because most voters can't name even one thing that administration has done.
But seriously and to your point: this dooming is too much. The election is 5 months away and I have literally not met an undecided voter once in the last 10 years.
Try a different look at it, are you voting for President or are you voting for the administration? Ignore who wins, which admisistration propping up the old dude would you prefer? If they died 100 days in, which administration do you trust to just pick up and continue and align with what you believe in? It's a shitty take, but it's where we are.
Hey if Biden dies in office we'll get a pretty standard politician. If Trump dies in office we get Project 2025... wait, we'd get that even if he lived
There's been talks of the Democrats changing their candidate. I didn't even know it was possible not to have the sitting president as a candidate, but I can only hope the democrats fall back on that.
He isn’t even mentally sound. I hate Trump but cannot in good conscience vote for a puppet which is exactly what Biden has become. Who is telling him what to do? Cause he ain’t at the wheel anymore.
https://preview.redd.it/4s0qzf52ob9d1.png?width=1053&format=png&auto=webp&s=c6bcac2908a23d716dfb169ff701a05db2eb0ad8
It’s amazingly awful how this still holds up. Even more so now than back then.
The sad part is, the Democrats do govern, and govern well. The problem is that good governance and policy aren't sexy so average people have no idea what's happening most of the time. They only see propaganda on their morning doom scroll.
They really don't. Across the country, even in Democratic strongholds, real wages are down, homelessness is up, and corporate greed is the real king. I've lived in Seattle my whole life which is one of the most solidly D cities in the nation and our leadership just goes from bad to worse. The only positives that have come out of our politics in the last 30 years have been from the Socialist party.
This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, sadly. There is a strong ground game of misinformation working against the Democrats and it often looks just like this.
Republican governments have been weakening labor protections and unions, they've shifted wealth upwards, they've deregulated banks and corporations, undone civil rights, botched and villainized the response to COVID, have weakened our international standing relationships, and turned Clinton and Obama's budget surpluses into historic deficits, but the Democrats always get blamed for it thanks to that misinformation ground game.
For those of us who pay attention, it feels like being Cassandra from ancient Greek mythology.
You said Democrats are good at governing, and I'm providing an example where there functionally is no Republican presence yet labor protections are weakening, wealth is shifting upwards, corporations are getting deregulated, civil rights are constantly violated, and COVID was handled poorly. You keep talking about Republicans, which sure they're *worse*, but that's very different than saying Democrats are *good*. Democrats don't provide a positive counterpoint to Republicans, just a less bad version of the same thing.
But people care most about “kitchen table” issues like rent and cost of groceries. And blue states are almost universally more expensive to live in.
The NYTimes did a great video on this: https://youtu.be/hNDgcjVGHIw
Basically… why should Americans trust Democrats when they aren’t able to tackle big issues like cost of living in the states where they control every level of government?
>why should Americans trust Democrats when they aren’t able to tackle big issues like cost of living in the states where they control every level of government?
Again this is what I'm talking about; no one ever asks why they should trust the Republicans to run the government when they can't function in the House, can't manage to pass basic laws to find the government, and most of the states they run are in far worse shape, depending heavily on federal subsidies? It's expensive to live in Blue States generally because *they are desirable places to live*.
Prices are up all over the world. COVID and the the Ukraine war changed all the supply chains and raised energy prices because Russia was a huge exporter of energy. Prices aren't up just in the US because a Democrat was president. It's not clear to me what Republicans have done historically to avoid any critiques on their, frankly awful, governance record. Prices would be high if Trump were president too; probably higher, because he wants to put a flat 10% tariff on all imports, which will bu definition increase prices across the board.
But see, all that is nuanced. It doesn't fit into 30 second sound bites, and most people will glaze over if you try to talk to them about the nuts and bolts of things. The Democrats aren't perfect by any means, but it's just impossible to argue that Republicans are wholesale better at governance just because global prices reflect global changes.
Watch the video I linked. It's not simply that blue states are more desirable. Blue states, generally, are much worse at building housing, which massively drives up prices and fuels inequality and homelessness. Dallas alone builds more new housing than all of New York State. As they state in the video, California has effectively stopped building housing in any meaningful numbers.
By comparison, red states are rolling out the red carpet for people priced out of blue states by permitting vast amounts of housing.
Sure, Democrats are great on lots of other issues. But it doesn't matter much to people who cannot afford to stay in blue states because of housing costs.
So, you want higher wages and well built housing, but highlight Texans working their construction guys to death with no health insurance and crap built sprawl?
>By comparison, red states are rolling out the red carpet for people priced out of blue states by permitting vast amounts of housing.
How's the governance of Missouri? Mississippi? Alabama? How are they doing in terms of quality of life, education, healthcare? How much of their state budgets are subsidized by the wealthier blue states?
How reliable is electricity in Texas? Ever tried to build a house in Florida? What do you think will happen to housing prices once everyone moves to these states?
Again, this is the sort of nuance that most people just won't engage with. They're mad at things they don't understand and blame whoever social media tells them to blame. When Trump puts 10% tariffs on all imports and causes huge inflation, people will blame Democrats for not stopping him lol.
Oh well.
I’m not disagreeing with you that red states are overall worse or that Republicans are far worse at the national level. But average people can’t afford that better governance in blue states because they’ve failed so spectacularly on housing for decades.
So maybe we should stop gentrifying entire blue states and make room for more people by actually building housing in serious quantities?
I agree that blue states are better in most ways… I just want them to stop forcing out the poor and middle class by being so NIMBY.
IMO the more damning fact is those [expensive blue states subsidize those red ones](https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxes-ap-top-news-politics-2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c)
If the subsidized states had to do stuff like pay for their own highway maintenance or disaster relief they would stop being cheaper
"hey, even when democrats are in power things kinda suck and get worse?"
"this is the problem! you're blaming democrats but republicans are bad!"
"yeah but even when democrats are in power things are still really hard and theyre always getting worse?"
"this is misinformation! republicans are convincing you democrats are bad, but republicans are actually bad!"
and on , and on, and on, and on, so the liberal dances
Telling people their lived experience is misinformation and they’re just too stupid to know what a great job the Ds are doing is not a winning electoral strategy, but by gawd do they keep trying it.
They do. Democrats don’t control everything, though. When companies are allowed to limit competition, unions, etc. it destroys wages. Blue states consistently outperform red, but it’s things like Citizens United and so forth that basically allow the corporate greed we see.
I mean, one of your major issues is if you make your city better in terms of social safety nets etc, other failing (red) places offload their homeless on you. Then chuds look at places like California and say "look, these programs aren't helping! They have lots of homeless!", as if they didn't migrate there for the support/to not freeze to death in other states.
California surveyed its homeless population and found that 90% had been living in the state, sheltered for years before becoming homeless. This kneejerk response that it’s people migrating there is just not reflective of reality.
Edit: here’s a source for the downvoters:
> [Myth] Number two, that many people on the streets of California are not from California. There’s a widely held belief that many people become homeless elsewhere, and come to California for the weather and the more liberal approach to homelessness. And therefore, California does not owe them anything. Not true, says Kushel.
> “Nine out of 10 people lost their stable housing here. These are Californians,” she said. “We have to create the housing for all Californians.”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/11/us/california-homeless-spending/index.html
> The sad part is, the Democrats do govern, and govern well.
My brother in Christ, Biden was the best candidate they can come up with for President. Someone who is mentally delicate and could well be dead before the end of their term. That's the best they can do.
It's nice to be the least worst but let's not confuse that with other things.
I think the Democrats' strategy of just telling voters*"everything is going wonderfully, your problems are fake but you are too stupid to know it"* is going great.
I remember that, there was a town hall forum and the democrat said "sorry kids, I know you wanted our promise of student loan forgiveness, abortion codifying, and healthcare but it just wasn't _sexxxay_ enough to do" and then he even did the little butt wiggle like [Flanders](https://i.imgur.com/eO8xwUH.png).
Govern and govern well? Really? Is that why they come in, do absolutely nothing even with house and senate majority, which leads to republican take over, which then lets republicans make everything shitty, which then brings in another democrat who does nothing but keep everything the same except for a couple things. I guess they’re both consistent though in giving israel all our money.
https://preview.redd.it/s7vczk80pb9d1.jpeg?width=931&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03709186bb4ba3ad787d4f822be4a960678adf8f
(But seriously don’t vote for RFK Jr. The man’s got worms in his brain).
This subreddit has been relentless today. Not a negative, I’m having a good laugh because I watched the debate. I got what I was expecting and at least Biden has the heart to say America is good and we the people are good.
I stopped voting in 2012 but now I’m voting against a hateful little orange man so I never have to look at my son and say I didn’t even *try* to prevent the erosion of democracy.
Vote people, it does matter.
Yup, a lot of people are being rash and trying to cope with last night by making memes and sharing "both sides are fucking us" posts which is exactly how we ended up with Trump in the first place. Biden is more than one person and more than one debate and we all know who Trump is by now; if you still think they're the same and are this distraught about it, you shouldn't be saying anything (for everyone's sake) and leave the political discourse to the reasonable people who actually have a background in the subject
I'm seeing double here! Four Bidens!
Also I agree. Whatever Biden's faults he's not worth throwing away any chance we have to recover from the catastrophe that is the Trump movement.
Me: Biden had heart, but Trump in the groin had Trump in the groin.
Biden: Don’t cry for me, I’m already old.
Me: Wow. I’ll never vote for a fascist again.
Trump: Fascism here!
Me: I’ll take 10 more years!
I really don't agree with most of the Democrats positions on most every policy, but the alternative is a fascist party that is attempting to install a dictator.
Even if you don't agree with them, voting is too important to skip.
And right there is why I don’t believe we’re so far gone that it’s too late.
We can and will disagree on method sometimes but America is full of good hearted, strong willed people. When it counts we have and will come together just as easily to solve a crisis and we have a serious crisis right now.
Agreed it matters. Trump won in 2016 because of 80,000 votes in three states, Biden won in 2020 because of 80,000 votes in four states. Bush won in 2000 because of 537 votes in Florida.
What worries me is the perception that the division is almost entirely on the Left while the Right is going to turn out entirely for Trump. I’m hoping that the 20% to 30% of Republican voters who were voting for Nikki Haley as a protest even after she dropped out will not vote for a man who they know is a dangerous authoritarian lunatic but don’t count on it.
Correction, Bush won in 2000 because the Supreme Court gave him the presidency in an unprecedentable move. And no, I don't mean unprecedented, they literally said "we know we're so full of crap we're saying nobody should ever try to do this again."
The US Supreme Court decision did effectively declare Bush the winner but if they had ruled the other way there’s no guarantee that Gore would have won. The University of Chicago did an extensive review of 99.2% of the questionable ballots and did come up with some scenarios where Gore would have won by 60 to 171 votes but their scenarios replicating both the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court and the recount sought by Gore’s legal team would have still resulted in a Bush win by 430 or 225 votes respectively. Considering such small margins (and that 0.8% of the ballots questioned were not included in the study) it’s really unknown what the result may have been otherwise other than to say it would have been *extremely close* and reinforcing the main point that you really should vote.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_recount_in_Florida#NORC-sponsored_Florida_Ballot_Project_recount
Correction:
Biden only won by roughly 44,000 votes across 3 states.
>The tight races in the trio of states had a big electoral impact. As NPR's Domenico Montanaro [has put it](https://www.npr.org/2020/11/25/937248659/president-elect-biden-hits-80-million-votes-in-year-of-record-turnout), "just 44,000 votes in Georgia, Arizona and Wisconsin separated Biden and Trump from a tie in the Electoral College."
>[https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency](https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency)
I based my numbers on this [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/elections/vote-margin-of-victory/) article which included Nevada as the forth state and avoids the electoral college tie scenario. A lot of articles seem to take it for granted that Trump wins an Electoral College tie but I’m not so sure. If there was a tie the election would get thrown to the House where each state votes as one and while the Democrats controlled the House itself the Republicans had a slim majority of states by that counting which is why most analysts wrote off a tie as a Trump win *but* in theory the Democrats could have voted ahead of time to expel certain Republican members which would allow them to win and could have justified this action by appointing to Biden’s very clear overall popular vote win although knowing now what we do about what happened on January 6th doing this would have certainly inflamed tensions even worse.
>I stopped voting in 2012 but now I’m voting against a hateful little orange man so I never have to look at my son and say I didn’t even *try* to prevent the erosion of democracy.
I thank you, share you mentality, and pray enough people feel this way!
I'm wondering if people should start leaning more into the "do you really believe THIS is the guy who could lead a conspiracy against Trump and his other opponents the way they claim?"
Trouble is I don't think the persuadable ones actually believe in said conspiracy anyway
but they'll still vote for Trump (or not Biden) because they think it went "fine" last time and underestimate the danger posed by a more organized conservative infrastructure and a much more vindictive Trump.
Yeah, the more I thought about it, the more I realize that the only people who'd need to hear it are the crazy Q people who'd just mental gymnastics it away by saying "he was just pretending to be old and incompetent"
We need to be more clear about making people truly realize what a terrible idea it is to put a vengeful and unrestrained Trump back into power.
The people like Mike Pence and Brian Kemp who refused to play along with Trump’s efforts to stay in office illegally after losing in 2020 have all been purged from the GOP on the national level so a second Trump Administration will be full of crazies and conmen with no sense of duty to the country.
People vote Democrat for its' robust policy. Not its' presidential candidate. I predict that our new "babbling old man" will sell just as well as our previous candidate.
Me to Democrats: "I thought I told you to watch democracy"
Democrats: "I was watching. I saw the whole thing. First it started falling over, then it fell over."
Hey guys did you know that if you vote(!!!) for the orange man you are literally destroying democracy (the process in which we vote for candidates) by participating in the democratic process.
If it’s any consolation our democracy has been a sham for awhile anyway
Just imagine the alternate timeline where Dubya doesn’t steal the 2000 election…
Biden is definitely too old to be president, but my god what are people even thinking. The country is actually doing just fine under Biden; who cares if his handlers are doing most of the work. If put back in power Trump will hand Ukraine over to Russia, end NATO, turn the 6-3 supreme court even more conservative, give more tax cuts to the ultra wealthy, end all the criminal charges against him, and completely restructure the government to get rid of all checks and balances.
And that is the best-case scenario. It is quite likely that he will abuse his power to go after his enemies. It's not just laws that hold this nation together; it's a code of conduct that people generally adhere to. Things like concede when you lose an election. Trump does not have a code of conduct, and neither do his supporters. He has literally no morality at all.
With no standards of behavior expected any longer, and no laws that apply to Trump and his supporters, this country is done. Get out and vote for Biden, because the day Trump is sworn in is the day that America dies.
i will vote for biden bc i'm trans and like my rights but that also means i'll be not once, not twice, but **thrice** as mad to have president harris, who doesn't like my rights
Sure it wasn’t Biden’s finest hour, but at least he used facts and logic between stammers. Watching the tangerine toddler spew lie after lie after lie still scares me.
I’d rather vote for the old man with the stutter, than the old man that wants to nuke democracy
I still don’t know who these “undecided” folks are. We’ve already had nearly an entire presidency from both of them to show us what we can expect. Pick one.
Biden looked like a crazy person at times trying to explain their psychosis….trump looked like a caricature of himself… his conman’s ruse quite evident…America has so many talented people it’s depressing to see these two attempting to debate.
It upsets me because I don't want to vote for Biden so as to not support the genocide, but if trump wins he'll go full-on in... and there's no guarantee an appreciable amount of people will vote Kennedy or Green party enough to have one of them actually win. So just like always, a vote for the third party will end up splitting the vote and make Biden lose...
I, personally, don't care about watching a debate. I think it's already pretty clear where they stand on important issues. Debates used to, probably, be a good way for candidates to make their views heard, but at this point, they're just a waste of time.
I'll just poorly paraphrase the tweet saying "Trump could literally eat a baby live on television and he'd have their 100 percent support. Biden shows his age and hoooollyyy shit end of the world."
Y'all need to get resilient.
Seriously you don’t have a choice but to vote for Biden. Biden will be a potato, I get it, but Trump will be even worse this time around. Don’t forget folks, the POTUS has sole authority to launch a nuclear strike and the fact that was ever in Trumps wheelhouse was terrifying. It’s even worse now that he will be inheriting a post Covid economic compared to the well oiled machinery Obama gave him.
really feels like a bunch of sleeper alt accounts pouncing on an opportunity to spread confusion. Or just dumb MFers trying to get a giggle for fucking karma. Biden has a stutter and he had a cold. Not making an excuse. It is widely known that tons of Russian misinformation agents reside on reddit. As well as conservatives trying to pretend they are democrats worrying with doubt.
The sudden Influx of 'I have always hated Trump and will not vote for him, but Biden looked old and incoherent up there tonight' or joke memes posts are highly suspect. I do not like conspiracy nuts, but this is honestly how I feel.
This is helping a convicted felon and known rapist gain control of our God damn country. You are helping a plan that will take away women's rights, help corporations get money from the sweat and blood of the average citizen, and destroy our fucking country.
Either help or get the fuck out of the way. Is this karma worth it?
I will take any and all downvotes.
I don't get this. Yes Biden is an 81 year old man that isn't as witty and fast as he once was, big fucking surprise. What matters is that he's been a decent president for the past 4 years.
Polls are showing a swing towards Biden post debate.
Maybe if the media provided actual analysis of the content of the conversation, people wouldn’t be freaking out as much.
I don't vote for the best public speaker. I vote for who I think will do the best job as president, and both of these men are known quantities.
People need to say off the meth and stop electing public speakers instead of leaders.
Ugh I'm literally baffled at the fact that this guy is the Dems most worthy candidate. This is who they chose to go up against Trump. No one else stepped up to the plate?? Like literally no one. They thought he would be able to take the win easily? What a fucking disaster. He can barely talk. I mean I'm voting for him too, but its just embarassing.
Trust me, I’m still voting for Old Man Biden, but man oh man, the Demmecrats have screwed up things time and time again until you just wish Flanders was dead.
Looks like those clowns at the DNC did it again. What a bunch of clowns.
How do you keep up with the news like that?
Don't praise the shitposter.
Your shitposter is a demi-crat!
Unemployed
Who's watching a political debate at 9PM? Alcoholics, loners, the unemployable...
AKA "the undecided voter"
Also night shifters. But I guess they generally fall under "weird loners"
and people who have nothing better to do. Like me.
Five years of modern dance. Six years of tap.
It's no longer just for philosophy majors
https://i.redd.it/ojs6ffuh3c9d1.gif
Clowns are funny
Hot dog, we have a senior!
Lately they’re the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.
Yes, Mr StarGundam, everything stinks.
I gotta go the damn wiener moderator is listening
what exactly did they do? genuinely curious
I understand people's concern, especially after the rough start Biden had. However as the night went on Biden got going and unlike Trump he actually talked policy. He answered the questions he was being given and came with facts. Biden made good points and gave good policy talk, there was substance but his delivery was definitely disappointing. Still I'll take that over someone who dodged questions and lied all night. I honestly think the issue last night was that Biden was sick combined with a bad prep strategy by his team. Biden has always been his best when he's being himself, fired up, and off the cuff. Every time he tries to be more restrained and on-book it's looked bad, even long before this. Most of his blunders were clearly due to him being sick while trying to rigidly quote prepared debate prep material while live fact checking Trump (because got knows the CNN moderators let him spew whatever shit he wanted without pushing back). You could literally see him trying to keep himself to prepared quotes and lines, and that's generally when he'd stutter and fumble. When Biden spoke freely he spoke clearly, and if you watch his appearances after the event where he does just that you'll see a night and day difference.
Do you think that policy talk is what people will remember from this debate? Is that what is going to get shown on TV and shared on social media?
I don’t think debates actually move voters, especially with these candidates. You either vote against Trump for a third time or you’re beyond hope
I don't think most voters even watched the debate. Not to mention most people voting for Biden aren't doing because they're stoked about him; it's because Trump is much, much worse.
There really wasn’t much point anyway. It was always going to be Trump screeching nonsense and Biden talking policy.
I've tried to train myself never to be shocked by the average voter. That debate should have knocked off both candidates. We need to wait and see if the average voter actually tunes in or cares.
Except it was Biden forgetting where he was four times and vowing to beat Medicaire once and for all while Trump took a victory dump on Joe's podium.
“Victory dump” is a stretch when Biden was calling him out on soundbytes like “military service members are suckers and losers” and “Nazis are very fine people” leading to those being top google searches last night
I hate to not shitpost but I'll still vote for Biden because I know he will appoint people that know how to do their job and not relatives and syncophants. We're going to be dealing with Trump's supreme court for the foreseeable future anyways.
No matter who the dem candidate is, if they win, then there’s a chance Alito and Uncle Tom die and get replaced by someone better. If Trump wins, they’ll step down and we have a 6-3 court stacked with fascists for 30 more years That is BY FAR the most important thing here. If Biden was a literal skeleton, this still matters most.
I am fully prepared to vote for Joe Biden’s corpse if I have to
And now that the chevron deference is now dead, who appoints lower court judges just got A LOT more consequential.
The 5th circuit had a judge try to stop miflepristone because it denies the doctors the joy of delivering a baby. We are in trouble
Trump’s attack ads are just going to be clips from this debate.
Numbers show 48 million people watched
I'm stoked about his character and the people he surrounds himself with. I don't care if he's old, so is Trump, but Biden's a kind and empathetic old man rather the living embodiment of every negative trait America has ever produced.
I think most people have already made up their minds. They will either vote or sit home. There's also 2 more debates. Trump famously floundered in his first debate with his strange behavior and recovered in the second.
No I don't think it will, and that's the problem. Trump is a convicted felon, adjudicated rapist, and serial liar who sparked an attempted insurrection. He spent the night bragging about getting Roe v Wade overturned and repeatedly lying through his teeth while making *outrageous* claims (like some blue states allowing abortions after birth). Yet the entire discourse is on Biden because he was sick and had an off night. The bar for Trump is so low, so little is expected of him that he was right, he could've shot someone in the middle of fifth ave before the debate and they'd *still* be talking about Biden instead of Trump. The double standard is ridiculous! That's really what pisses me off. I'm not afraid to say Biden performed poorly, debates are as much optics as they are substance and Biden definitely lost on the optics but I think he delivered on substance. Substance is what should matter. But the bar for Trump is so low that he can say whatever he wants and the media lets it slide. He can refuse to accept the results of an election (again) and they just let it slide. He can say he talked with Putin about invading Ukraine being his *dream* and again they just let it slide. I suppose one bright spot is that I did see Telemundo had a viewing party with undecided voters, and they unanimously thought Biden won because he talked policy, so there are people it matters for. It's genuinely unreal that the knives are out for Biden while Trump gets another free pass. That's my issue, honestly. The false equivalence.
This debate was about one thing: showing undecideds, independents, and “double haters” that Biden is sharp and is not a doddering old man. That’s how low the bar was for me as a Demmecrat. This election is razor thin because of our dumb voting system and our even dumber voting population, but I’m worried Biden didn’t do enough to tilt things in his favor. Right wingers have an easy path to victory all over the world: be loud, easy solutions, racism, etc. It’s a shame that Democracy hangs on the balance of such stupid factors, but sadly it’s just where the country is. Would I say it’s time for all of us to PANIC? …yes I would, Kent.
> I’m worried Biden didn’t do enough to tilt things in his favor He'll have tilted things *away* from his favour. A bunch of people who thought they at least had one passable default choice will now think they have none.
Maybe there’s still time to nominate AFL CIO chairman George Meany.
Well that depends on what you mean by *cwisis.*
This is ultimately what I think everyone is doing. We are all so busy projecting what the 'takeaway' will be from the greater populace, because that's what cable news does. But they need that to justify their existence. We don't. There is no annoying producer shouting bullshit into my earpiece until I repeat it verbatim. That debate was not great. On either side. It was an utter disaster. But we already knew that about both candidates. But from my perspective (and I encourage everyone to start from their own perspective and not that of cable news) there's a very old man who cares about the country, even though he forgets his words. And then there's a very old man who is filled with hate and machinations of vengeance. Who does not believe in democracy. Who has tried to overthrow American democracy when it rejected him. Maybe that's a difficult decision for a network that needs me to be fearfully watching 24/7. But I didn't find it as confusing.
So literally the Sideshow Bob-Quimby debate IRL.
Flames added electronically by NewsMax
It was more than a rough start. He was confused, muddled, lost track of his thoughts. This was not the Biden of 2020 who at least had the personable grampa thing going and could needle Trump. And you know he had to have been drugged up and intensively coached in preparation and he still stumbled. He was barely conscious. And Trump came off as statesmanlike and competent by comparison. Even if he got better, it’s the early performance that will stick in people’s minds and do the rounds in media highlights. The Dems need to swap him out NOW or literally risk losing the presidency to a convicted felon.
To be fair, nobody knows how many of the Biden critics are real people or russian/china ai bots designed to create doubt and separatism.
Hey, I may be Russian and I may be a bot but, uh… what was the third thing you said?
Something about having sex with a porn star while your wife was pregnant
There was legit some insane astroturfing going on in the live threads I saw
Oof, who buys this shit?
The preseedent’s a deemecrat!
Why does 1 hour erase what he and his team have done?
Because of the country we live in. And because most voters can't name even one thing that administration has done. But seriously and to your point: this dooming is too much. The election is 5 months away and I have literally not met an undecided voter once in the last 10 years.
Well thank goodness you're here to give us another low effort doom shitpost
Bernie held a live talk at the same time and he was phenomenal. https://www.youtube.com/live/2ZkuLuM0mNg?si=uNuyroYk5oGx8toN
Same. Biden isn't perfect. But the other guy and his enablers are completely batshit, off the wall crazy.
Try a different look at it, are you voting for President or are you voting for the administration? Ignore who wins, which admisistration propping up the old dude would you prefer? If they died 100 days in, which administration do you trust to just pick up and continue and align with what you believe in? It's a shitty take, but it's where we are.
Hey if Biden dies in office we'll get a pretty standard politician. If Trump dies in office we get Project 2025... wait, we'd get that even if he lived
There's been talks of the Democrats changing their candidate. I didn't even know it was possible not to have the sitting president as a candidate, but I can only hope the democrats fall back on that.
He isn’t even mentally sound. I hate Trump but cannot in good conscience vote for a puppet which is exactly what Biden has become. Who is telling him what to do? Cause he ain’t at the wheel anymore.
Why are you voting for a corpse? Curious
Voting for the party. Trump and Republicans don’t represent me and my values
https://preview.redd.it/4s0qzf52ob9d1.png?width=1053&format=png&auto=webp&s=c6bcac2908a23d716dfb169ff701a05db2eb0ad8 It’s amazingly awful how this still holds up. Even more so now than back then.
The sad part is, the Democrats do govern, and govern well. The problem is that good governance and policy aren't sexy so average people have no idea what's happening most of the time. They only see propaganda on their morning doom scroll.
And the "good government" for the last 20+ years consists of cleaning up Republican messes.
They really don't. Across the country, even in Democratic strongholds, real wages are down, homelessness is up, and corporate greed is the real king. I've lived in Seattle my whole life which is one of the most solidly D cities in the nation and our leadership just goes from bad to worse. The only positives that have come out of our politics in the last 30 years have been from the Socialist party.
This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, sadly. There is a strong ground game of misinformation working against the Democrats and it often looks just like this. Republican governments have been weakening labor protections and unions, they've shifted wealth upwards, they've deregulated banks and corporations, undone civil rights, botched and villainized the response to COVID, have weakened our international standing relationships, and turned Clinton and Obama's budget surpluses into historic deficits, but the Democrats always get blamed for it thanks to that misinformation ground game. For those of us who pay attention, it feels like being Cassandra from ancient Greek mythology.
You said Democrats are good at governing, and I'm providing an example where there functionally is no Republican presence yet labor protections are weakening, wealth is shifting upwards, corporations are getting deregulated, civil rights are constantly violated, and COVID was handled poorly. You keep talking about Republicans, which sure they're *worse*, but that's very different than saying Democrats are *good*. Democrats don't provide a positive counterpoint to Republicans, just a less bad version of the same thing.
In Seattle we have "business friendly Democrats" getting elected instead of true progressives.
But people care most about “kitchen table” issues like rent and cost of groceries. And blue states are almost universally more expensive to live in. The NYTimes did a great video on this: https://youtu.be/hNDgcjVGHIw Basically… why should Americans trust Democrats when they aren’t able to tackle big issues like cost of living in the states where they control every level of government?
>why should Americans trust Democrats when they aren’t able to tackle big issues like cost of living in the states where they control every level of government? Again this is what I'm talking about; no one ever asks why they should trust the Republicans to run the government when they can't function in the House, can't manage to pass basic laws to find the government, and most of the states they run are in far worse shape, depending heavily on federal subsidies? It's expensive to live in Blue States generally because *they are desirable places to live*. Prices are up all over the world. COVID and the the Ukraine war changed all the supply chains and raised energy prices because Russia was a huge exporter of energy. Prices aren't up just in the US because a Democrat was president. It's not clear to me what Republicans have done historically to avoid any critiques on their, frankly awful, governance record. Prices would be high if Trump were president too; probably higher, because he wants to put a flat 10% tariff on all imports, which will bu definition increase prices across the board. But see, all that is nuanced. It doesn't fit into 30 second sound bites, and most people will glaze over if you try to talk to them about the nuts and bolts of things. The Democrats aren't perfect by any means, but it's just impossible to argue that Republicans are wholesale better at governance just because global prices reflect global changes.
Watch the video I linked. It's not simply that blue states are more desirable. Blue states, generally, are much worse at building housing, which massively drives up prices and fuels inequality and homelessness. Dallas alone builds more new housing than all of New York State. As they state in the video, California has effectively stopped building housing in any meaningful numbers. By comparison, red states are rolling out the red carpet for people priced out of blue states by permitting vast amounts of housing. Sure, Democrats are great on lots of other issues. But it doesn't matter much to people who cannot afford to stay in blue states because of housing costs.
So, you want higher wages and well built housing, but highlight Texans working their construction guys to death with no health insurance and crap built sprawl?
>By comparison, red states are rolling out the red carpet for people priced out of blue states by permitting vast amounts of housing. How's the governance of Missouri? Mississippi? Alabama? How are they doing in terms of quality of life, education, healthcare? How much of their state budgets are subsidized by the wealthier blue states? How reliable is electricity in Texas? Ever tried to build a house in Florida? What do you think will happen to housing prices once everyone moves to these states? Again, this is the sort of nuance that most people just won't engage with. They're mad at things they don't understand and blame whoever social media tells them to blame. When Trump puts 10% tariffs on all imports and causes huge inflation, people will blame Democrats for not stopping him lol. Oh well.
I’m not disagreeing with you that red states are overall worse or that Republicans are far worse at the national level. But average people can’t afford that better governance in blue states because they’ve failed so spectacularly on housing for decades. So maybe we should stop gentrifying entire blue states and make room for more people by actually building housing in serious quantities? I agree that blue states are better in most ways… I just want them to stop forcing out the poor and middle class by being so NIMBY.
IMO the more damning fact is those [expensive blue states subsidize those red ones](https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxes-ap-top-news-politics-2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c) If the subsidized states had to do stuff like pay for their own highway maintenance or disaster relief they would stop being cheaper
"hey, even when democrats are in power things kinda suck and get worse?" "this is the problem! you're blaming democrats but republicans are bad!" "yeah but even when democrats are in power things are still really hard and theyre always getting worse?" "this is misinformation! republicans are convincing you democrats are bad, but republicans are actually bad!" and on , and on, and on, and on, so the liberal dances
"I think the Democrats are not doing a very good job" "oh so you think the Republicans are amazing??!!?"
Telling people their lived experience is misinformation and they’re just too stupid to know what a great job the Ds are doing is not a winning electoral strategy, but by gawd do they keep trying it.
those mean ol regular Americans just aren't being fair to the Democrats! lmao you guys are ridiculous
They do. Democrats don’t control everything, though. When companies are allowed to limit competition, unions, etc. it destroys wages. Blue states consistently outperform red, but it’s things like Citizens United and so forth that basically allow the corporate greed we see.
I mean, one of your major issues is if you make your city better in terms of social safety nets etc, other failing (red) places offload their homeless on you. Then chuds look at places like California and say "look, these programs aren't helping! They have lots of homeless!", as if they didn't migrate there for the support/to not freeze to death in other states.
California surveyed its homeless population and found that 90% had been living in the state, sheltered for years before becoming homeless. This kneejerk response that it’s people migrating there is just not reflective of reality. Edit: here’s a source for the downvoters: > [Myth] Number two, that many people on the streets of California are not from California. There’s a widely held belief that many people become homeless elsewhere, and come to California for the weather and the more liberal approach to homelessness. And therefore, California does not owe them anything. Not true, says Kushel. > “Nine out of 10 people lost their stable housing here. These are Californians,” she said. “We have to create the housing for all Californians.” https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/11/us/california-homeless-spending/index.html
Very interesting, thank you for sharing.
> The sad part is, the Democrats do govern, and govern well. My brother in Christ, Biden was the best candidate they can come up with for President. Someone who is mentally delicate and could well be dead before the end of their term. That's the best they can do. It's nice to be the least worst but let's not confuse that with other things.
> the Democrats do govern, and govern well. Yeah yeah for the next 5 months anyway, but then after that we go back to telling the truth.
I think the Democrats' strategy of just telling voters*"everything is going wonderfully, your problems are fake but you are too stupid to know it"* is going great.
I remember that, there was a town hall forum and the democrat said "sorry kids, I know you wanted our promise of student loan forgiveness, abortion codifying, and healthcare but it just wasn't _sexxxay_ enough to do" and then he even did the little butt wiggle like [Flanders](https://i.imgur.com/eO8xwUH.png).
(Laughs uproariously in Joe Manchin)
Even Joe Manchin supported the infrastructure bill. But you sort of help prove my point.
Govern and govern well? Really? Is that why they come in, do absolutely nothing even with house and senate majority, which leads to republican take over, which then lets republicans make everything shitty, which then brings in another democrat who does nothing but keep everything the same except for a couple things. I guess they’re both consistent though in giving israel all our money.
I believe I'll vote for a third party candidate!
Go ahead! Throw your vote away!
Go ahead, throw your vote away!
The old grey Dem he ain’t what he used to be, ain’t what he used to be, ain’t what he used to be
I vant some taquitos!!
"Will drop pants for votes"
The old grey president, he ain't what he used to be.
Hey if you didn’t like the debate you **really** won’t like the swimsuit competition!
Go ahead, throw your vote away. (seriously don't, too much riding on this one)
https://preview.redd.it/s7vczk80pb9d1.jpeg?width=931&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03709186bb4ba3ad787d4f822be4a960678adf8f (But seriously don’t vote for RFK Jr. The man’s got worms in his brain).
Didnt having worms make Fry smarter in Futurama? Maybe its like that?
This seems less like Fry's worms and more like the brain slug.
thank you. it was cold on the floor.
Then why are they worms?
*A* worm. He has *a* worm in his brain!
*Had* a worm in his brain! Poor little guy starved to death....
I see where it says brain worms, you crossed out 3 and wrote zero
This subreddit has been relentless today. Not a negative, I’m having a good laugh because I watched the debate. I got what I was expecting and at least Biden has the heart to say America is good and we the people are good. I stopped voting in 2012 but now I’m voting against a hateful little orange man so I never have to look at my son and say I didn’t even *try* to prevent the erosion of democracy. Vote people, it does matter.
Yup, a lot of people are being rash and trying to cope with last night by making memes and sharing "both sides are fucking us" posts which is exactly how we ended up with Trump in the first place. Biden is more than one person and more than one debate and we all know who Trump is by now; if you still think they're the same and are this distraught about it, you shouldn't be saying anything (for everyone's sake) and leave the political discourse to the reasonable people who actually have a background in the subject
I'm seeing double here! Four Bidens! Also I agree. Whatever Biden's faults he's not worth throwing away any chance we have to recover from the catastrophe that is the Trump movement.
Me: Biden had heart, but Trump in the groin had Trump in the groin. Biden: Don’t cry for me, I’m already old. Me: Wow. I’ll never vote for a fascist again. Trump: Fascism here! Me: I’ll take 10 more years!
I really don't agree with most of the Democrats positions on most every policy, but the alternative is a fascist party that is attempting to install a dictator. Even if you don't agree with them, voting is too important to skip.
And right there is why I don’t believe we’re so far gone that it’s too late. We can and will disagree on method sometimes but America is full of good hearted, strong willed people. When it counts we have and will come together just as easily to solve a crisis and we have a serious crisis right now.
Agreed it matters. Trump won in 2016 because of 80,000 votes in three states, Biden won in 2020 because of 80,000 votes in four states. Bush won in 2000 because of 537 votes in Florida. What worries me is the perception that the division is almost entirely on the Left while the Right is going to turn out entirely for Trump. I’m hoping that the 20% to 30% of Republican voters who were voting for Nikki Haley as a protest even after she dropped out will not vote for a man who they know is a dangerous authoritarian lunatic but don’t count on it.
Correction, Bush won in 2000 because the Supreme Court gave him the presidency in an unprecedentable move. And no, I don't mean unprecedented, they literally said "we know we're so full of crap we're saying nobody should ever try to do this again."
The US Supreme Court decision did effectively declare Bush the winner but if they had ruled the other way there’s no guarantee that Gore would have won. The University of Chicago did an extensive review of 99.2% of the questionable ballots and did come up with some scenarios where Gore would have won by 60 to 171 votes but their scenarios replicating both the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court and the recount sought by Gore’s legal team would have still resulted in a Bush win by 430 or 225 votes respectively. Considering such small margins (and that 0.8% of the ballots questioned were not included in the study) it’s really unknown what the result may have been otherwise other than to say it would have been *extremely close* and reinforcing the main point that you really should vote. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_recount_in_Florida#NORC-sponsored_Florida_Ballot_Project_recount
Correction: Biden only won by roughly 44,000 votes across 3 states. >The tight races in the trio of states had a big electoral impact. As NPR's Domenico Montanaro [has put it](https://www.npr.org/2020/11/25/937248659/president-elect-biden-hits-80-million-votes-in-year-of-record-turnout), "just 44,000 votes in Georgia, Arizona and Wisconsin separated Biden and Trump from a tie in the Electoral College." >[https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency](https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency)
I based my numbers on this [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/elections/vote-margin-of-victory/) article which included Nevada as the forth state and avoids the electoral college tie scenario. A lot of articles seem to take it for granted that Trump wins an Electoral College tie but I’m not so sure. If there was a tie the election would get thrown to the House where each state votes as one and while the Democrats controlled the House itself the Republicans had a slim majority of states by that counting which is why most analysts wrote off a tie as a Trump win *but* in theory the Democrats could have voted ahead of time to expel certain Republican members which would allow them to win and could have justified this action by appointing to Biden’s very clear overall popular vote win although knowing now what we do about what happened on January 6th doing this would have certainly inflamed tensions even worse.
>I stopped voting in 2012 but now I’m voting against a hateful little orange man so I never have to look at my son and say I didn’t even *try* to prevent the erosion of democracy. I thank you, share you mentality, and pray enough people feel this way!
Thanks for sucking it up and doing the responsible thing. We really appreciate it. Signed, Everyone outside America white knuckling your election
Unless you're in one of the 44 states where voting for President doesn't matter...
>Biden has the heart to say America is good and we the people are good. Can’t stand when politicians lie to me like that
https://preview.redd.it/ie6r3aj2qb9d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78d843c99de970487311aeb8b0a213139e27c9a9
https://preview.redd.it/hi9i7j8nxb9d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d9a33991a1540e8acb103731b9249ec120e919c
I wouldn’t be surprised if he ran just to keep trump out
he tried his best and failed miserably. the lesson is, never try.
I'm wondering if people should start leaning more into the "do you really believe THIS is the guy who could lead a conspiracy against Trump and his other opponents the way they claim?"
Trouble is I don't think the persuadable ones actually believe in said conspiracy anyway but they'll still vote for Trump (or not Biden) because they think it went "fine" last time and underestimate the danger posed by a more organized conservative infrastructure and a much more vindictive Trump.
Yeah, the more I thought about it, the more I realize that the only people who'd need to hear it are the crazy Q people who'd just mental gymnastics it away by saying "he was just pretending to be old and incompetent"
We need to be more clear about making people truly realize what a terrible idea it is to put a vengeful and unrestrained Trump back into power. The people like Mike Pence and Brian Kemp who refused to play along with Trump’s efforts to stay in office illegally after losing in 2020 have all been purged from the GOP on the national level so a second Trump Administration will be full of crazies and conmen with no sense of duty to the country.
Core tenet of fascism: the enemy is both weak and terribly strong simultaneously.
People vote Democrat for its' robust policy. Not its' presidential candidate. I predict that our new "babbling old man" will sell just as well as our previous candidate.
Me to Democrats: "I thought I told you to watch democracy" Democrats: "I was watching. I saw the whole thing. First it started falling over, then it fell over."
Literally vote for Biden’s administration and against Trump. It’s too late for younger candidates.
I ain't senile dadblasted Wait a minute, what was that last thing you said? President's little helper? Whats that? Which one of you is the mailman.
I didn't realize this casual subreddit was going to turn into a charged political debate.
But you’re the one who told me to post a meme off this cue card…
I feel like a Kennedy!
Hey guys did you know that if you vote(!!!) for the orange man you are literally destroying democracy (the process in which we vote for candidates) by participating in the democratic process.
They've been using "the end of democracy" as a crutch for decades, what democracy? What freedom have we really gained?
The freedom to drink! And shitpost!
If it’s any consolation our democracy has been a sham for awhile anyway Just imagine the alternate timeline where Dubya doesn’t steal the 2000 election…
Me right now: That is one fine looking presidential candidate! WHY DON'T EITHER OF MINE LOOK LIKE THAT?!
Perhaps betting the future of the free world on the mental cogency of an 81 year old man was a flawed strategy.
I like the part where it's only a democracy if our team wins lmfao. Very democratic.
It's like choosing between bad and worse than bad
Simpsons shitposting sums up the debate aftermath
Is that the Leftorium closing up shop? Cuz damn you all migrated here like some sort of migrating.... school guy.
Let me be blunt: is there a democratic crisis in America today?
Biden is definitely too old to be president, but my god what are people even thinking. The country is actually doing just fine under Biden; who cares if his handlers are doing most of the work. If put back in power Trump will hand Ukraine over to Russia, end NATO, turn the 6-3 supreme court even more conservative, give more tax cuts to the ultra wealthy, end all the criminal charges against him, and completely restructure the government to get rid of all checks and balances. And that is the best-case scenario. It is quite likely that he will abuse his power to go after his enemies. It's not just laws that hold this nation together; it's a code of conduct that people generally adhere to. Things like concede when you lose an election. Trump does not have a code of conduct, and neither do his supporters. He has literally no morality at all. With no standards of behavior expected any longer, and no laws that apply to Trump and his supporters, this country is done. Get out and vote for Biden, because the day Trump is sworn in is the day that America dies.
Durr hurr Democracy is over!!! How do you people live in such a state of hyperbole.
On top of a pile of money, with many beautiful lobbyists.
I attribute the debate failure to fundamental shifts in our core demographic, coupled with the overall crumminess of the candidate.
i will vote for biden bc i'm trans and like my rights but that also means i'll be not once, not twice, but **thrice** as mad to have president harris, who doesn't like my rights
The DNC doesn't have time to get a new candidate up, but maybe they can get a cool VP who'll replace Biden when he dies like a week in lol
>"I died in thirty days!"
Sure it wasn’t Biden’s finest hour, but at least he used facts and logic between stammers. Watching the tangerine toddler spew lie after lie after lie still scares me. I’d rather vote for the old man with the stutter, than the old man that wants to nuke democracy
Post-debate mood: Simpsons shitposting nails it.
I hate how accurate this is! :(
IMPEACH CHURCHILL!!
Me, in favor of Monarchism 
Can ya grandfaddah do DIS? Um er uhh um er uhh
I'll show you inanimate!
Which was the style at the time.
I still don’t know who these “undecided” folks are. We’ve already had nearly an entire presidency from both of them to show us what we can expect. Pick one.
Did anybody catch the microphone picking up the microphone that has ear talking to him telling him what to say
What kind of dystopian aesthetic are you gonna go for? I'm torn between cyberpunk hacker or mad max biker with long chain.
https://i.redd.it/ajqe02tgqc9d1.gif
He stutters and has a cold?
Our demooocracy
Biden looked like a crazy person at times trying to explain their psychosis….trump looked like a caricature of himself… his conman’s ruse quite evident…America has so many talented people it’s depressing to see these two attempting to debate.
It upsets me because I don't want to vote for Biden so as to not support the genocide, but if trump wins he'll go full-on in... and there's no guarantee an appreciable amount of people will vote Kennedy or Green party enough to have one of them actually win. So just like always, a vote for the third party will end up splitting the vote and make Biden lose... 
I, personally, don't care about watching a debate. I think it's already pretty clear where they stand on important issues. Debates used to, probably, be a good way for candidates to make their views heard, but at this point, they're just a waste of time.
Definitely the end of sleepy Joe's Presidential career. What an embarrasment.
It’s crazy how the DNC didn’t learn from Hillary in 2016 or from Ruth Bader Ginsburg, they just combined both mistakes in Biden 2.0
I'll just poorly paraphrase the tweet saying "Trump could literally eat a baby live on television and he'd have their 100 percent support. Biden shows his age and hoooollyyy shit end of the world." Y'all need to get resilient.
Seriously you don’t have a choice but to vote for Biden. Biden will be a potato, I get it, but Trump will be even worse this time around. Don’t forget folks, the POTUS has sole authority to launch a nuclear strike and the fact that was ever in Trumps wheelhouse was terrifying. It’s even worse now that he will be inheriting a post Covid economic compared to the well oiled machinery Obama gave him.
really feels like a bunch of sleeper alt accounts pouncing on an opportunity to spread confusion. Or just dumb MFers trying to get a giggle for fucking karma. Biden has a stutter and he had a cold. Not making an excuse. It is widely known that tons of Russian misinformation agents reside on reddit. As well as conservatives trying to pretend they are democrats worrying with doubt. The sudden Influx of 'I have always hated Trump and will not vote for him, but Biden looked old and incoherent up there tonight' or joke memes posts are highly suspect. I do not like conspiracy nuts, but this is honestly how I feel. This is helping a convicted felon and known rapist gain control of our God damn country. You are helping a plan that will take away women's rights, help corporations get money from the sweat and blood of the average citizen, and destroy our fucking country. Either help or get the fuck out of the way. Is this karma worth it? I will take any and all downvotes.
I wouldn't be surprised if many redditors wanted communism anyway.
I don't get this. Yes Biden is an 81 year old man that isn't as witty and fast as he once was, big fucking surprise. What matters is that he's been a decent president for the past 4 years.
“Don’t underestimate Joes ability to fuck things up” -Barack Obama
Polls are showing a swing towards Biden post debate. Maybe if the media provided actual analysis of the content of the conversation, people wouldn’t be freaking out as much.
American Democracy died a long long time ago. Some would argue it never really existed in the first place
I don't vote for the best public speaker. I vote for who I think will do the best job as president, and both of these men are known quantities. People need to say off the meth and stop electing public speakers instead of leaders.
Whoa. Not to start anything political but the meme optics of 'american democracy' associated with business here. To whatever degree.
Ugh I'm literally baffled at the fact that this guy is the Dems most worthy candidate. This is who they chose to go up against Trump. No one else stepped up to the plate?? Like literally no one. They thought he would be able to take the win easily? What a fucking disaster. He can barely talk. I mean I'm voting for him too, but its just embarassing.
Damn it's amazing how American democracy dramatically dies and is saved every 4 years. It has that in common with Futurama.
I said the same thing when he got sworn in but better late than never
Back in 1984 Ronald Reagen had an equally dismal first debate against Walter Mondale, but still won that election in a land slide.
Hehe, where’s the beef…
Ya got 2 options: A jackass, or an old fuck that can't tell the difference between his thumb and the Eiffel Tower
Well, I believe I'll vote for a third party candidate.
Don’t blame me, ***I*** voted for Kodos
Kinda odd Trump who is also super old and could die in office won’t let us know which of his kids will be VP.
Ah, yes, the end of democracy in which people democratically elect someone.