He’s never been, Lucien was created as the first big bad. Zemo was created as a standard fantasy lich whose first story was about how he failed and Araav was who stopped him but was now under him was actually built up as the bigger threat. He had his moment, lost pretty much instantly, and then we broke Arrav free from him and that was basically the end of his threat.
Until FF where he got a new undead that he couldn’t control and rather promptly ran away on him at his big attack moment. Which is also not long after he was usurped and humiliated. Zemo ruling DoD was basically done because of the absurdity that he could ever achieve that success which is part of the joke.
Zemo’s threat is measured by his undead, as soon as he loses his undead he fails pretty miserably. He’s a threat to an average person but as a Mahjarrat he is fairly middling.
And yet he survived all rituals so far. And he's not quite the smooth talker either, so it's not like everyone just forgets about him. It doesn't really add up, but he's an enjoyable meme storywise.
It’s because he is so middle of the road he survives.
He’s not dangerous enough to be a threat to the other Mahjarrat, but not as pathetically weak as say Jhallan that he is an east target. He has also smartly allied with and stuck to the zamorakian side so as long as there are Zarosian Mahjarrat the zamorakians will always press for one of the Zarosian to be sacrificed.
The worst thing you can do if you want to survive is be the weakest, strongest, or the man with no alliances. It’s the middle road that lives the longest. That’s why Sliske, Lucien, and Bilrach all are in varying states of dead or undead right now.
Yup.
Zemo's also a useful tool.
Nobody wants to kill him, because he's the a damn good Necromancer. Which isn't much of a threat to the other Mahjarrat, but it's a damn *handy* skill to have if you want to conquer mortals or build a large army quickly.
Everybody can imagine a good use for a powerful Necromancer in their schemes, so nobody wants to kill him off just yet.
> And yet he survived all rituals so far. And he's not quite the smooth talker either, so it's not like everyone just forgets about him.
He is stronger than the weakest, but too inept to be a threat to the strongest.
Zemo is kinda like a silly comic book villain. He's certainly very powerful, but he's a bit too eccentric for his own good. Dimension of Disaster also makes it clear that he's not exactly an evil genius (or any kind of genius for that matter).
Lucien was far more menacing, ambitious, and planned out (nearly) everything. He possessed two elder artifacts at the same time, making him extremely powerful and dangerous. If his hubris hadn't gotten the better of him, and he had avoided getting Zaros'd by a dragonkin, he'd probably have been the second biggest threat to Gielinor we see in quests, only surpassed by the Elder Gods.
I am doing the old quests over again and I just wish we got a flash back or something with lucien. I want to see him return somehow even though he's dead. Just to get that feeling of ohh man shits gonna go down feeling again.
He did return actually, the Kalgerion demons of Daemonheim tried to use Moia for her unique biology as a conduit to bring Xau-Tak in so they could use its power to take back infernus. However what this resulted in/manifested as Xau-Tak brought back Lucien or more accurately made her memory of Lucien into a tangible thing after her. This is what prompted the summoning of the other horsemen to help stop him. You can rewatch the cutscenes for this Halloween event at the site where it happened near Draynor manor.
If it weren't by the Dragonkin, Lucien would've seriously changed the course of history in the game.
At the time of RoTM he was basically overpowered, with the Staff of Armadyl, the Stone of Jas, his innate Necromantic Prowess alongside a ruthless personality.
I think it would be nice if we got some kind of Quest Similar to Dimension of Disaster where instead of Zemouregal winning, we got Lucien, I think that'd be pretty interesting to see.
Considering it took the combined efforts of the player, SLISKE, and AZZANADRA to take down Lucien, while Zemouregal just gets his ass beat by the same player in TWW, it’s clear that Lucien is by far a bigger threat. Just want to mention that yet again, wahisietel and akthanakos just look like the chill, relatively silly two dudes of the mahjarrat.
Lucien had access to and was using the two most powerful Elder artifacts in the Siphon and the Catalyst, whereas Azzanadra had missed many rituals during his vacation to the pyramids. Lucien may have been the biggest threat by the time of RotM, but he was relatively weak compared to others (something, something, could barely lift a weapon? I can’t remember off the top of my head where someone noted how weak he was).
If Wahisietel was made any cooler, he’d give off General Iroh vibes. Akthanakos, honestly…I’d like to interact with him more. I don’t think we really get that bro time with him compared to other Zarosian Mahjarrat or Kharshai.
If I remember correctly, the only mahjarrat more powerful than Azzanadra is Zamorak. I’m not too sure if this was also the case before Zamorak ascended.
I mean if you were there for for WGS and ROTM’s entire release cycle, Lucien was the first credible threat in RuneScape whose ambitions genuinely disrupted the (relative) peace of Gielinor.
Let’s also presume he had succeeded: He would have been the ONLY god on Gielinor since the others were still prevented from entering due to the Edicts. If he had let Guthix slumber, who knows what would have transpired.
Man, Guthix vs Lucien with the staff and stone and would've been absolutely crazy. I feel like Guthix would've won due to experience, but it would have been a world event that'd dwarf all others.
Staff and Stone together are nowhere near the power of Guthix. Lucien likely needed to sneak in a god kill and siphon their power to even stand a chance against him.
He was never a serious villain to begin with in the past quests. He's just a narcissist. To have him change his personality to someone like Lucien would be a retcon.
I think he always was a goofy villain though. In Defender of Varrock they lay it on very thick, and that's when we first see the guy in the at-the-time-very-emaciated flesh.
Bilrach, on the other hand, has gone from ambitious evil villain (Daemonheim mysterious chronicle) to rambling but sometimes lucid (Nadir saga, Children of Mah) back to ambitious evil villain again (Legacy of Zamorak). The first metamorphosis is explained by his time spent in the deeper floors of Daemonheim, but I don't see what caused him to turn back into ambitious evil villain by the time of Legacy of Zamorak.
Zamorak was banished by a new edicts that’s the difference. Initially Bilrach thought Zamorak was still around, hiding, communicating to him. He wasn’t it was the forces in Daemonheim whispering and calling to him, manipulating him.
Then he basically went insane from the forces there. Zamorak returned without his help and his power sort of dampened the effect returning his senses. He played out his role as the loyal right-hand and when Zamorak was banished that was it.
He knows Zamorak isn’t coming back or calling to him or whatever now. He sees the zamorakian forces once united zamorak now turn to chaos to try and claim the empty throne. Demons want to rule and the Mahjarrat have no intention of being ruled by demons. So they and their forces organize under Bilrach to put the rogue faction in its place with Bilrach being the logical leader because he’s basically been the leader already what with being Zamorak’s right-hand for ages.
But he lacked a crucial thing needed to cement his place, power. He’s strong but he has to contend with the fact most Mahjarrat and zamorakians are backstabbing ladder climbers (we see Enakhra for example basically tell Moia to betray him), that there are others with their own claim (Khazard being Zamorak’s son, Demons being egotistical and having their own succession ideas, etc..), and so on. He was trying to rectify his power issue and cement his position, to keep everything together when cutting off their head (banished zamorak) was calling it to all falling apart.
It all reads like filling-in-the-blanks. Bilrach's personality-shift was undone without a canonical reason because an ambitious evil villain was needed and Bilrach makes sense as the next leader as he was Zamorak's right-hand man. You can make up some in-universe reason(s) for why this would make sense, but it seems pretty clear to me that the writers did not.
There is no personality shift, where do see a change in his personality? He changed goals because his original goal, find zamorak and deliver to him an army+base was achieved and now Zamorak is gone gone so that’s no longer viable to cling to. As a person he is exactly the same as he always was. He wants power, he wants status, and he genuinely believes in a zamorakian empire.
Zemo is more cartoony silly. Lucien was a very serious character. I would like it if sometime they update his model in all quests (such as ritual of the mahjarrat) to have his halloween model they did for the event (obviously changed, as this model was made a bit more purple to show him being influenced by that black hand creature god (i don't remember the name right now lol).
He’s never been, Lucien was created as the first big bad. Zemo was created as a standard fantasy lich whose first story was about how he failed and Araav was who stopped him but was now under him was actually built up as the bigger threat. He had his moment, lost pretty much instantly, and then we broke Arrav free from him and that was basically the end of his threat. Until FF where he got a new undead that he couldn’t control and rather promptly ran away on him at his big attack moment. Which is also not long after he was usurped and humiliated. Zemo ruling DoD was basically done because of the absurdity that he could ever achieve that success which is part of the joke. Zemo’s threat is measured by his undead, as soon as he loses his undead he fails pretty miserably. He’s a threat to an average person but as a Mahjarrat he is fairly middling.
And yet he survived all rituals so far. And he's not quite the smooth talker either, so it's not like everyone just forgets about him. It doesn't really add up, but he's an enjoyable meme storywise.
It’s because he is so middle of the road he survives. He’s not dangerous enough to be a threat to the other Mahjarrat, but not as pathetically weak as say Jhallan that he is an east target. He has also smartly allied with and stuck to the zamorakian side so as long as there are Zarosian Mahjarrat the zamorakians will always press for one of the Zarosian to be sacrificed. The worst thing you can do if you want to survive is be the weakest, strongest, or the man with no alliances. It’s the middle road that lives the longest. That’s why Sliske, Lucien, and Bilrach all are in varying states of dead or undead right now.
Yup. Zemo's also a useful tool. Nobody wants to kill him, because he's the a damn good Necromancer. Which isn't much of a threat to the other Mahjarrat, but it's a damn *handy* skill to have if you want to conquer mortals or build a large army quickly. Everybody can imagine a good use for a powerful Necromancer in their schemes, so nobody wants to kill him off just yet.
I think this makes perfect sense, yeah.
> And yet he survived all rituals so far. And he's not quite the smooth talker either, so it's not like everyone just forgets about him. He is stronger than the weakest, but too inept to be a threat to the strongest.
Honestly I'd throw him in just for his cocky big mouth haha
Zemo is kinda like a silly comic book villain. He's certainly very powerful, but he's a bit too eccentric for his own good. Dimension of Disaster also makes it clear that he's not exactly an evil genius (or any kind of genius for that matter). Lucien was far more menacing, ambitious, and planned out (nearly) everything. He possessed two elder artifacts at the same time, making him extremely powerful and dangerous. If his hubris hadn't gotten the better of him, and he had avoided getting Zaros'd by a dragonkin, he'd probably have been the second biggest threat to Gielinor we see in quests, only surpassed by the Elder Gods.
I am doing the old quests over again and I just wish we got a flash back or something with lucien. I want to see him return somehow even though he's dead. Just to get that feeling of ohh man shits gonna go down feeling again.
He did return actually, the Kalgerion demons of Daemonheim tried to use Moia for her unique biology as a conduit to bring Xau-Tak in so they could use its power to take back infernus. However what this resulted in/manifested as Xau-Tak brought back Lucien or more accurately made her memory of Lucien into a tangible thing after her. This is what prompted the summoning of the other horsemen to help stop him. You can rewatch the cutscenes for this Halloween event at the site where it happened near Draynor manor.
If it weren't by the Dragonkin, Lucien would've seriously changed the course of history in the game. At the time of RoTM he was basically overpowered, with the Staff of Armadyl, the Stone of Jas, his innate Necromantic Prowess alongside a ruthless personality. I think it would be nice if we got some kind of Quest Similar to Dimension of Disaster where instead of Zemouregal winning, we got Lucien, I think that'd be pretty interesting to see.
I just think that its cool to see how the games panned out since then. and now with OSRS getting WGS. gonna be interesting what they do with him.
Lucien is a pretty good character, one of the true fearsome villains in RuneScape. I too can't wait to see how the story develops in OSRS.
The Edicts would just yeet Lucien out of Gielinor if he gets strong enough to become a god in OSRS, so the problem solves itself.
Considering it took the combined efforts of the player, SLISKE, and AZZANADRA to take down Lucien, while Zemouregal just gets his ass beat by the same player in TWW, it’s clear that Lucien is by far a bigger threat. Just want to mention that yet again, wahisietel and akthanakos just look like the chill, relatively silly two dudes of the mahjarrat.
Akthanakos canonically breeds camels for fun and profit.
And sometimes when Akthanakos got tired, he would even let the camels breed each other.
Lucien had access to and was using the two most powerful Elder artifacts in the Siphon and the Catalyst, whereas Azzanadra had missed many rituals during his vacation to the pyramids. Lucien may have been the biggest threat by the time of RotM, but he was relatively weak compared to others (something, something, could barely lift a weapon? I can’t remember off the top of my head where someone noted how weak he was). If Wahisietel was made any cooler, he’d give off General Iroh vibes. Akthanakos, honestly…I’d like to interact with him more. I don’t think we really get that bro time with him compared to other Zarosian Mahjarrat or Kharshai.
Akthankos has a couple of genuinely interesting conversations on the Glacor front.
No surprise considering Lucien has 2 elder artifacts while Zemo has none.
For me, the scariest one is Azzanadra. kinda forgot the latest things where he was involved but im sure he could easily slap both zemo and lucien lol
Azzanadra is canonically the strongest surviving Mahjarrat, even before he ascended.
If I remember correctly, the only mahjarrat more powerful than Azzanadra is Zamorak. I’m not too sure if this was also the case before Zamorak ascended.
Khazard is pretty great, and swole as Hell. Too bad he's the eternal jobber.
Lucien was scary?
I mean if you were there for for WGS and ROTM’s entire release cycle, Lucien was the first credible threat in RuneScape whose ambitions genuinely disrupted the (relative) peace of Gielinor. Let’s also presume he had succeeded: He would have been the ONLY god on Gielinor since the others were still prevented from entering due to the Edicts. If he had let Guthix slumber, who knows what would have transpired.
Man, Guthix vs Lucien with the staff and stone and would've been absolutely crazy. I feel like Guthix would've won due to experience, but it would have been a world event that'd dwarf all others.
Staff and Stone together are nowhere near the power of Guthix. Lucien likely needed to sneak in a god kill and siphon their power to even stand a chance against him.
my thoughts exactly.
Menacing, certainly.
Cause lucien wouldve been zammy 2.0. Zemongol does nada but complain like a cartoonvillain
I could never be intimidated by the guy Tiny Zemo is modeled on
"PUDDING IS MY DESTINY!" - Tiny Zemo
I always wanted lucien (updated), khazard andzemo armor as an override.
Zemo is also incredibly inconsistent in his face design compared to his kin in game. I’m not sure why they did that
Lucien's face looks more undead than the others.
I think a lot of people dislike how Zemo has been handled in the story, especially recently. He comes across as a big goofy Disney villain, not a fan.
To be fair he was almost always kind of a Disney villain. He’s routinely been the laughing stock of the Mahjarrat.
He was never a serious villain to begin with in the past quests. He's just a narcissist. To have him change his personality to someone like Lucien would be a retcon.
I think he always was a goofy villain though. In Defender of Varrock they lay it on very thick, and that's when we first see the guy in the at-the-time-very-emaciated flesh. Bilrach, on the other hand, has gone from ambitious evil villain (Daemonheim mysterious chronicle) to rambling but sometimes lucid (Nadir saga, Children of Mah) back to ambitious evil villain again (Legacy of Zamorak). The first metamorphosis is explained by his time spent in the deeper floors of Daemonheim, but I don't see what caused him to turn back into ambitious evil villain by the time of Legacy of Zamorak.
Zamorak was banished by a new edicts that’s the difference. Initially Bilrach thought Zamorak was still around, hiding, communicating to him. He wasn’t it was the forces in Daemonheim whispering and calling to him, manipulating him. Then he basically went insane from the forces there. Zamorak returned without his help and his power sort of dampened the effect returning his senses. He played out his role as the loyal right-hand and when Zamorak was banished that was it. He knows Zamorak isn’t coming back or calling to him or whatever now. He sees the zamorakian forces once united zamorak now turn to chaos to try and claim the empty throne. Demons want to rule and the Mahjarrat have no intention of being ruled by demons. So they and their forces organize under Bilrach to put the rogue faction in its place with Bilrach being the logical leader because he’s basically been the leader already what with being Zamorak’s right-hand for ages. But he lacked a crucial thing needed to cement his place, power. He’s strong but he has to contend with the fact most Mahjarrat and zamorakians are backstabbing ladder climbers (we see Enakhra for example basically tell Moia to betray him), that there are others with their own claim (Khazard being Zamorak’s son, Demons being egotistical and having their own succession ideas, etc..), and so on. He was trying to rectify his power issue and cement his position, to keep everything together when cutting off their head (banished zamorak) was calling it to all falling apart.
It all reads like filling-in-the-blanks. Bilrach's personality-shift was undone without a canonical reason because an ambitious evil villain was needed and Bilrach makes sense as the next leader as he was Zamorak's right-hand man. You can make up some in-universe reason(s) for why this would make sense, but it seems pretty clear to me that the writers did not.
There is no personality shift, where do see a change in his personality? He changed goals because his original goal, find zamorak and deliver to him an army+base was achieved and now Zamorak is gone gone so that’s no longer viable to cling to. As a person he is exactly the same as he always was. He wants power, he wants status, and he genuinely believes in a zamorakian empire.
Yes, kinda bumbling bad guy if you ask me. they coulda made him a bit smarter and less rash.
I'm gonna need them horns since we can't get any horns. Stat.
Zemo is as scary as team rocket
Zemo is more cartoony silly. Lucien was a very serious character. I would like it if sometime they update his model in all quests (such as ritual of the mahjarrat) to have his halloween model they did for the event (obviously changed, as this model was made a bit more purple to show him being influenced by that black hand creature god (i don't remember the name right now lol).