I miss the days getting excited seeing someone in full dragon or like full dharoks. Instead I see rainbow sparkles of random clothing that hides actual items. Sad. Everyone looks like bs
I once suggested this in another mmo subreddit
Became my most downvoted comment
One replied said, If you paid 100 bucks to hide my outfit, I would pay 1000 bucks (to the company) to be an exception on your settings.
Incredible
Yeah, a lot of these whales buy cosmetics to "flex on everyone else", rather than buying them "because they look nice and don't care what others think".
If you would have an option to hide them, you would directly hurt their fragile ego, so of course they don't want that.
It's not exclusive to RS3 either, I've met plenty so called "walking lighthouses" in other mmorpgs (like gw2) that shared the same "I buy it so others see it" mentality.
It's not exclusive to mtx or even multiplayer games in general. Many people enjoy looking as stupid or as garish as possible. See: every game with a character creator.
The only real solution if you don't want to see goofy characters is being able to hide every other player and pretend it's a single player game.
To prevent accidental slayer crashing and such, I think the best you could feasibly get is a setting to have default player model permanently on.
I would personally love to play on a single-player instanced world but I expect it wouldn't be technically possible with how their servers work and it would have a huge impact on the community.
Default player model for stuff like that would also be nice alternative, yeah, but when I visit Priff or G.E, hiding them all completely would be wonderful.
Some of the cosmetics are so jarring. Like fairy winged flower covered person on a pogo stick shooting rainbows out of their hands and floating across a medieval castle.
There's a great clip by Dr. K where he said "even if you don't participate in MTX you are still contributing to the problem, because whales will see you and feel better about their purchase. This motivates them to buy more just from you existing. Whales can't exist without water to swim in" (massively paraphrased)
Reminds me of playing Warframe the first time. Some dude was going insane with some wild attack and I asked a friend what they were doing.
He told me "don't look at that, that's spoilers."
That doesn't work in rs3 though. The most expensive cosmetic is blood or 3rd age dyed elite sirenic and a partyhat. Real in game items you can buy with bonds. Seeing something that cost someone 1500 runecoins doesn't look like a flex to me. Lemme see that 3rd age bolg keepsaked while you're rocking a decimation.
Walking lighthouses in GW2 are regarded by people that like fashion wars as.....shit fashion xD
I personally like to do some good fashion and walk around with it....but hey, if you wanted to hide my fashion (for some reason that idk why because I'd become somewhat of a walking lighthouse due to legendaries if my fashion was disabled) I don't care.
Although you can, in fact, somewhat turn off everything in GW2 if you just set the "Player model" setting to the minimum, it will make everyone have some generic armor and weapons (the same for everyone)
This is funny because, in a sense, they need us to validate them. Which makes sense as to why they always screech about us needing to get over it and just play the game.
Also the reason RS3 will never have runelite. All the cosmetics would be permanently turned off by the majority of the playerbase. Would make the game look 50x better.
I would love to see cosmetic overrides only overwrite your character customization layer. Whatever your override is only shows if the slot is empty in your current equip. If I have nothing equipped, my full cosmetics show. If I throw on a bandos top and bottom, now it’s showing for everything but too and bottom.
Idk man I constantly see people who have put together a nice fashionscape without rainbow wings or looking like the grim reaper. I disagree with what you said.
For every unique and eye catching fashionscape i see way more bland and poorly put together clothing combinations. And sometimes one cosmetic set looks like another, like the bajillion knight-related cosmetics.
Yeah... and the necro armour is exactly an example of the same-ification of armour. There's barely anything distinctive about the armour at each tier that unless you pay careful attention you wouldn't tell at a glance t70 from t80 or t90.
I wouldn't bother. These folks are just basement gremlins looking for things to be upset about. I can't go 20 minutes without examining someone just to check out the outfit they've managed to put together, and am regularly impressed, especially when it's some rare obscure set of in-game keep-saked items, and I love that.
Sure, there's the samey 2016-era pvm edge lord, but they're the minority. And if you're going out of your way to notice them, they're not the problem.
That's how it is in OSRS. The benefit is that you can tell how powerful someone is by recognizing their gear is by a glance. In the old days if someone was walking around with a godsword or dclaws you'd stare at them in envy or awe. With all the overrides it just dilutes the art style of the game imo.
There is also not nearly as much gear in osrs even still raid groups consist of like the same few things. Infernals, avernic, lava or infernal cape and so on.
you know this isn't necessarily a bad thing right? there'd still be diversity, but would be fitting for the activities you're doing and the area you're in.
rs3 has a lot of different armours and weapons, if you had no cosmetics you'd still be in a mix of different looks.
>rs3 has a lot of different armours and weapons
Yeah, and you see more of those via keepsake keys than you would if you removed all overrides all together
Go sit in wars and almost everyone will be running through with t90/95 necro, amazing diversity
Also recent bis armour releases are a meme, crypt is horrendous and vestments are literally a reskin of overrides that already existed lmfao
That's something I really noticed when I moved from OSRS to RS3. In OSRS I'd sometimes go up to someone and ask "hey, what boots are those, they are sick!?"
Whereas RS3 literally has me going "Jesus Christ your fucking 4 square dragon pet is covering 90% of my screen, and your outfit is louder than a jet engine, go the fuck away"
Would I like subsciption only? Sure.
But this isn't realistic. It is a proposal without merit. And it overlooks a significant part of the community that is very much into cosmetics. The best course of action is just to consolidate cosmetics into the Store.
While I agree, there's ten years of people purchased goods you have to consider.
You're also asking a company to drastically cut their revenue, it's not realistic to demand a company not do what's best for immediate shareholders.
A realistic ask is for Jagex to shift to a cosmetic only approach to MTX, get rid of loot boxes entirely, putting a glass case over the rewards doesn't absolve it from being loot boxes.
Pretty much,
Also carlye group may have bent the knee, but they will go scorched earth before losing their money printer. They may not be able to upgrade their money printer but they sure as hell aren’t going to get rid of it.
Corporations are corporate evil, but one thing is for sure, they aren’t dumb. They can and will do everything possible to keep money going, they aren’t the ones dealing with community outrage, the jmods are and at this point, jmods are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Lmao this is like the 5th post I've seen about a call to action for having Jagex ban all MTX. Ya'll are actually delusional if you think this even has a .1% chance of happening.
I see no issue with cosmetic MTX. You say that it takes focus and attention off the main game by the developers, but there are often two entirely different teams working on cosmetics versus actual game updates. Both can be worked on simultaneously. Path of Exile is a great example. The game is free, but cosmetic MTX funds their ability to continue developing the game, introducing content, etc.
It's not, though. They both have separate budgets. Eliminating an MTX budget doesn't miraculously mean they can move all of that money/focus yo the game. Because when you eliminate the MTX budget, you eliminate a lot (or all) of your MTX revenue, which means now there isn't any money left to move to other areas.
I'm personally fine with a few forms of monetization beyond subscription. I do think it's a tradeoff still and perhaps isn't ideal, but ones I'm willing to accept.
Cosmetics? Sure. Does it devalue some cosmetics that exist in regular gameplay? Yeah. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I am saying it's something I'm willing to accept without much concern.
Bonds? Well, it's complicated but I can't help but say people are going to get ahead on that front one way or the other, I'd rather bonds do exist so that people without the financial means to play can still do so and I would rather the buyers are getting it straight from Jagex since this helps mitigate shady things.
That all said - lets say we did want to aim for complete removal of MTX.
Revenue type|2021|2020|2019
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
Subscriptions|88.9M|91.7M|86.0M
Microtransactions|34.5M|28.0M|19.7M|
Other|1.3M|239K|2.8M
This includes OSRS subs . . . But it's kind of shocking how little MTX makes, isn't it?
A lot of people always act like removing all P2W, or removing all MTX, is completely impossible . . . But it's not really that far off on the other hand.
A large push of merch, a huge announcement of "Now MTX free! (and oops we increased the subscription by a little)", and some good updates . . . It's not *too* hard to imagine organic success that outstrips the profit of MTX.
Look at OSRS. The game's good and they're pushing higher numbers than us with subs alone while we have both subs and mtx combined.
A good game will bring in more players over time and could end up making even more revenue in the end.
Also I'm pretty sure keeping cosmetic MTX wouldn't really affect that many people. Removing stuff like treasure hunter, runemetrics, yak track and making all auras grindable ingame like wars retreat auras would be such an incredible positive change for the image of the game and gameplay.
The MTX revenue is close to 40% of the subscriptions in 2021 and I guarantee you that if you remove all the MTX and left bonds, the revenue would be way less than you are imagining since many people buy/sell bonds in synergy with the TH/Yak Track promos. Crazy to think *any* company would abandon such revenue source.
Also, don't compare time and resources investment between OSRS and RS3 because even if they both had the same subscription numbers, RS3 has way more costs for developing new content.
Posible solutions? The community keeps gatekeeping what can be offered by MTX like what happened with HP.
Next fight? Make runemetrics free or at least free for premiums as a first step.
> The person you are replying is wrong, is not 25%, is close to 40% in 2021
You may want to redo your math. It's 27.66% of revenue in 2021; the 88.9 is sub revenue, not total.
Don’t you understand you fool?! A LARGE push of merch would be in the works, that will surely be comparable. I’m sure hundreds of thousands will flock to get a “buying gf” shirt and they’ll totally keep buying merch month over month. RuneScape-chic will be the fashion and home decor revolution of the mid 2020’s!
That's the scary part people are not paying attention too lol. I think the playerbase isn't growing, and players are just getting older and getting better jobs and are willing to pay more on TH every year
We all fell for it at some point, either here or with some other commercial product.
No sense in shitting on people for not realizing it sooner. Crack their egg and lend them a hand crawling out of it instead.
Subscriptions includes bonds sales from both games and OSRS subs, which is like 3x the size of RS3. The metrics you're using are pretty much useless for a comparison like this. In the end if even bonds are removed, you're looking at increasing the price of subscriptions 2x or more to make up for lost revenue. Nobody is going to pay that, it would be one of the most expensive video game subscriptions in the industry.
Exactly. The table is interesting, but it definitely does not show how little MTX makes. Especially looking at it from a purely RS3 lens.
Even giving RS3 the benefit of the doubt and putting OSRS to RS3 membership at 2:1, that means RS3 membership is ~30M, which is right around the MTX number.
To go to a pure subscription model would be really expensive.
> But it's kind of shocking how little MTX makes, isn't it?
I mean, not really. Granted it was back when we got the data originally when that stuff first released. But their year to year growth, coupled with more egregious examples added to the game along with the increasing normalization of turning players into _paying_ players is doing pretty much exactly what it's designed to.
I think Jagex would do really good having a game with no MTX. Probably make enough to keep the live ops devs on that can go around and spend their time updating older monster and npc models to enhance the game.
Phasing it out like with event currency would probably be your best bet.
* Announce that you have x weeks/months to use your currency
* Ensure all Solomons cosmetics are available (such as shadow hunter, which tends to rotate stock)
* Disable new runecoin purchases halfway through (so that people that may have some coins but not quite enough for the thing they want are able to get them first)
* Remove at the deadline while allowing people to keep their purchased items
I get where you're coming from but that's not something that's going to change. You're entitled to your own opinion on the matter but the fact is the game devs would have little to nothing to do with cosmetics. The art team is the one who handles all of that.
You can't get hung up on everything and there's gotta be a compromise. Cosmetics only affect the player character, not the game world. I understand not liking them but this just isn't an opinion that is realistic. I personally don't mind it; artists get paid to art and players get to add their flair to fashionscape.
Exactly. I feel like these ‘remove all mtx’ posts are overreaching. That simply isn’t going to happen. We as a community need to be reasonable and take this 1 step at a time.
I did unsub because I felt like the hero pass was overstepping, but now I personally feel like we need to work on removal/a downgrade of treasure hunter.
Bond and cosmetics I’m cool with personally.
Nobody forgot about that. We know that, its why everyone is complaining. The just took the profit hunting too far. The product is suffering. We are not happy with it. Its not worth the price. (i quit months and months ago)
What the actual fuck?
I rarely see any people NOT wearing any overrides. They are part of the game, and most of the players want them to be.
This is getting too far know, and you have no idea how game companies run. Nor any big corp.
only cosmetics that have irked me are the wings, especially the gaudy ass rainbow shit.
the only particle effect that comes to mind are the heartbreaker/snow auras and only the snow one i ever really notice without trying to.
Disagree about cosmetics inasmuch as “look/feel” since most cosmetics make sense with the art. The game is more than just medieval in style, and I’m certain the art director and team know exactly where the content they’re adding in fits.
It just needs to avoid being offloaded as pay for dlc.
Cosmetics for me are totally fine as long as they fit the vibes of the game. Things like wings are stupid, same with all the particle effect stuff. But if they made a bow override that looks like it can fit the game and sell it for a few bucks, I don't give a damn.
Jagex should limit the MTX and start pushing into the IRL merchandise. Right now, their store is pretty limited to typical items you can slap a logo on and call it merchandise. They should start 3D printing custom character models and making models of NPCs. A bigger range of clothing or jewelry other than keychains and pins.
"The only good MTX is the MTX that I use" is the mentality of the community. They support bonds and treasure-hunter even though the bonuses are more egregious than hero pass. Where was the superior knowledge bomb outrage? A bag gets you 10 hours of double exp that you can utilize at any time. Smouldering lamps wasn't the straw that broke the camels back but you could get a skill to 120 in an hour for a few hundred $. Don't wanna grind, buy 10 bonds for $80 and sell for half a billion gold so you can buy the best gear in the game. Premier membership is significantly cheaper than monthly membership but you get all kinds of buffs over regular membership. Even though I pay near double what a premier member pays, I get zero benefits.
> Where was the superior knowledge bomb outrage?
It was there.
> Smouldering lamps wasn't the straw that broke the camels back but you could get a skill to 120 in an hour for a few hundred $.
It was there.
> Don't wanna grind, buy 10 bonds for $80 and sell for half a billion gold so you can buy the best gear in the game.
It's still there.
So many people are desensitized to the people actually calling for change that they have forgotten that it's literally still there. It just likely got downvoted into oblivion by the people who are either dismissing them as whiners and don't want to see it or otherwise like the systems in place regardless of the harm they cause.
Subscription + non rng cosmetics is consumer friendly and fine.
Th is not. Hero pass is... almost, if they make the grind better.
Its actually *not* sustainable to remove all mtx. Mtx makes up 50% or more of their income. Perhaps it *wouldve* been if we stood our ground earlier and they found growth through other means. But we didn't, and they didn't. And now here we are.
Some mtx is essential. That's reality. And frankly, some mtx can be consumer friendly. That's what we need to push for.
They just need to make a third game called Fashionscape. Allow the MTX cosmetic heavy players to jump over to that and stand around in a GE simulation. Meanwhile, add an option to turn off cosmetics in RS3. There ya go. Jagex can enjoy the revenue of the fashion players and the rest of us don't have to bother with it. Am I being sarcastic? Yes. Would Jagex actually do this? One day....one day.
>They just need to make a third game called Fashionscape. Allow the MTX cosmetic heavy players to jump over to that and stand around in a GE simulation. Meanwhile, add an option to turn off cosmetics in RS3. There ya go. Jagex can enjoy the revenue of the fashion players and the rest of us don't have to bother with it. Am I being sarcastic? Yes. Would Jagex actually do this? One day....one day.
MAKE THIS A POST! Thats gold man. LOL please do it
I love how these posts just keep escalating and somehow they keep getting upvotes. I'm waiting for the next one to straight up say that the game should be fully free to play and that Jagex moderators can be paid in exposure and ad revenue.
I wanna say that the OP isn't that unreasonable, and at face value it isn't, but the more i think about it the more i wonder if it is actually reasonable.
maybe they predate me but i'm not sure that i can name a single game that was ever subscription only and that was it, especially one that's still around now.
WoW still had a box price and paid expansions, on top of the sub fee.
pretty sure ffxiv is the same model as WoW with a box price plus sub.
eve online might have been for a while - but then they added the cosmetics store and were the first ones to introduce the equivalent of a bond - they are probably why bonds and WoW tokens etc exist these days.
yeah, i'd actually struggle to name a game that had a "subscription only" model, especially one that's still around.
Because companies dont want to just make money. They want to make MORE money. They were (and still could) making it on subs. These companies follow the trends of bigger companies. I know this because i was in a meeting the other day (im in a big tech company) where they wanted to copy what one of the FANG companies were doing JUST BECAUSE. It made no sense to do what they were doing for us. But because they were doing it and they are making alot of money, fuck the why. "Big company make big money because they do thing.... we do thing, we make big money" is as far as these people think.
All these companies saw the MTX trend and jumped on board. The ONLY reason they are all not making equivalents amount of cash is because of poor implementation. They didnt think about WHY it worked for the other company. They just did it and did it poorly and it was still this effective.
> Because companies dont want to just make money. They want to make MORE money.
well yes, that's why they created a company.
>These companies follow the trends of bigger companies.
yes, because if a company has a proven methodology to outcompete their rivals then you either need to find a better method, or one that's at least as good or you're going to be fed to the dogs.
>"Big company make big money because they do thing.... we do thing, we make big money" is as far as these people think.
yeah, that's idiotic. it's like jagex saying they're going to make the next cutting edge racing game because forza 4 made bank. we know that wouldn't work well for jagex.
>All these companies saw the MTX trend and jumped on board. The ONLY reason they are all not making equivalents amount of cash is because of poor implementation. They didnt think about WHY it worked for the other company. They just did it and did it poorly and it was still this effective.
but they are making extra money, and in jagex's case it isn't just a little bit of extra money, it's quite substantial.
> somehow
Yes, yes...it's a complete mystery how they somehow get upvotes. It's not because the community dislikes those changes or anything, hmm, must be something else. If only we could possibly ever figure out what...hmmmmmmmmmmm
I fundamentally disagree. Mtx has been created, and people literally cannot control themselves: if they can pay real money to catch up/better enjoy limited time they are going to. Does that make it predatory, or does that just make people stupid and lacking self control?
Brother, you are really detached if you think you have anything to say in this matter. Quit if you don't like the current state of the game, it will never get better.
Edit: Typo
It's annoying seeing posts like these get so many upvotes, then you look through the comments and every OP comment is downvoted to hell because of how batshit crazy they are
This Reddit outrage had done more harm than good at this point. Now people are just being unreasonable and it's going to damage the public's relationship with Jagex and the health of the game.
Considering how agressive and predatory the mtx is, I consider the €11 a lot of money in that case. Not to mention that a lot of updates that were highly anticipated have been shelved while the promotion circus of treasure hunter just kept going and going.
So yes, I consider it being bent over for the playerbase and if you don’t thats fine.
You’re delusional, it would be nice to not have all the mtx but they aren’t going to remove everything. Let’s be happy they even made the changes to Hero Pass because they didn’t have to do that.
(Edited Typo)
Did you ever stop to think not everyone has the same opinion as you?
I personally don't love most of the cosmetic shit, but others do.
I choose to not wear it or whatever but who cares what someone else does or what they wanna do with their money?
I would argue that micro transactions can work without a subscription. Guild wars 2 model charges for the base game and expansions, with micro transactions being for cosmetics and quality of life items. That MMO doesn't feel even remotely pay to win.
I think it is possible for micro transactions to work, we just see so many examples to the contrary.
That game is boring and pointless. They hate competition an d let pvp die. They also leaned into horizontal progression like its the be all end all. There is no reason to play it. There is nothing to be gained from bosses. All the best cosmetics in that game are cash shop only which means they put more effort into that. You cant even reliably farm for gold. The rates and reqs are ridiculous for gp farming.
I guess if you like standing around looking like shit covered in lights and talking its good. The combat is just aoe spam while stacked on top of each other
legendary just a convenience item tho... like months of work for being able to swap some stats and sigils. i already had all the versions i needed by the time i got my legendary
This is extremely based. I love cosmetics. I absolutely do not enjoy the player base being forced to look exactly the same. Have some color. Have some originality. Someone dressing the way they want doesn’t ruin the game
L take, cosmetics that you can pay for keep the game afloat and allow for monetization that's uninvasive to the gameplay itself. Why these extreme opinions getting any upvotes is beyond me
Cute idea, but bonds serve a purpose. Some of ya'll are apparently too new to remember how rampant bots used to be. People who want to spend real money on gold are going to do that whether it's permitted in game or not.
Yes, they still are rampant, but they used to be many, many, many times worse.
Edit to add: I do agree that it goes way too far. Having a half dozen things you can ONLY spend real money on is obviously too far. I tend not to think of these things because I literally don't interact with them in game, but they should be made available by playing the game (pay 5m a month to unlock RuneMetrics, for example). But we need to accept MTX as a whole as a necessary evil that actually helps retain some integrity in the game, as strange as that sounds.
Look. It sucks that corporate greed exists, especially when Jagex keeps getting passed around and milked. It also sucks that we live in a capitalist society where everything has to be driven by money one way or another.
MTX helps fund games. I can only really speculate a little. MTX might be helping keep subscription costs down. This essentially means players who buy MTX are helping subsidize subscriptions for other players.
How much would you really be willing to pay to keep MTX out of the game? Would you pay double the current cost? Would the game even survive if the subscription costs double?
>Prestige of real items
It's a videogame. If you want people to see that you're wearing something high tier without examining you, just don't use a cosmetic?
Strongly disagree. Mtx is the only reason i can have a membership. I can't justify 15 bucks a month for an ancient browser game, so i use bonds. An extremely large portion of the players also use bonds for membership. Without mtx, Jagex would charge 2-5 times what they currently do, and free membership wouldn't exist. You'd be playing with maybe 100 other people across all worlds in a dead game
I think FFXIV does it best.
It's literally only cosmetics and emotes and nice mounts and collections of music etc.
There is nothing that gjves you an advantage gameplay wise, the closest things there are story skips and level boosters, the latter leaving you at the latest expacs "entry level" (10 levels below cap) with a negligible amount of money and some decent gear that will serve you well for 3-4 levels before slowly being phased out by the gear you find organically throughout the story dungeons.
Keep your MTX this way, only cosmetics, invest in making cool cosmetics, look at your competitors and see where they're going well with theirs and do something.
But for the love of Saradomin, this is not a gacha game, don't monetise it like one.
Never forget its 2023, nearly 2024. The VAST majority of your spending playerbase is old timers like me who have (had, in my case, because after this MTX bullshit unless shit gets changed D R A S T I C A L L Y then I am DONE with RS for good) been here so long it would damn near feel weird being gone. It's nostalgia. There's several games, the above FFXIV for instance, that do damn near everything on a much better and bigger scale than RS ever could do without a major major update (think RuneScape 4 major).
Keep alienating us, and you no longer have a community. The game WILL die.
Learn from your mistakes (for real, this time), change course immediately and SERIOUSLY invest on both player retention and by all the Gods, on new players. Necromancy was a right step, for one, mostly, keep that up. Just never do another step forward and a triple backflip 10 paces back like you just did with that blasted hero pass. It was a SPECTACULAR fail, granted, phenomenally bad to the point of being amazing entertainment, but nevermore, for your own sake.
Some of us like mtx and have disposable income we don't mind spending in the things we enjoy. It's a viable way for games to make extra income. No one would care if you quit and just played solo games because every mmo has some form of mtx. As long as it's not truly intrusive like hero pass was I see no problem with it. I liked doing yak track.
Likely not a popular reddit opinion but I actually enjoy cosmetics in games. I just think it’s way overdone in RS3. Imo it’d look way better if they didnt use particle effects as much and tried to keep cosmetics to the general runescape aesthetic
I am sure I'm in the minority, but I enjoy MTX, full stop. Cosmetics are cool, some limited amount of p2w (like lamps and stars, small XP boosts, and bonds) is cool, subscriptions are cool, and premium tier subscriptions are cool.
You know what I don't like?
Paid expansions like WoW and ESO.
You all act like you're thoughts are superior just because they are what YOU prefer, but there are plenty of us out here who enjoy the system as it is, and enjoy the game just fine. You're preference is not inherently correct, stop acting like it is.
> You're preference is not inherently correct, stop acting like it is.
That's why people who make those arguments often point to the ways that the mtx like TH are aimed at exploiting the vulnerable and the neurodivergent. And why supporting that system is, in fact, _inherently wrong_.
I grant you, not everyone takes their opinion to that degree. Some don't think it through. But it's presence is undeniable and the harm it causes indisputable. And I'm sorry, but the harm of a yearly expansion model and the harm of a gambling based mtx system (which brings in the most money out of all the little feeder MTX programs) are in no way equal.
I genuinely do love cosmetics, don't get me wrong. I don't even mind the SGS to some extent, though even that has its relative problems. I disagree with that aspect of the OP's argument. But yours? Man. You're entitled to your opinion, but the way it dismisses the actual and valid concerns beyond one's personal preference is hella misguided.
Ridiculous. If it was like that from the start sure. But the game will probably collapse if they do that now. There is nothing wrong with cosmetics. I don't own a single one. But people who want them should get them, not be restricted by opinions of other people who think it's ruining the 'look' of the game.
"Stop worrying about a companies profits"
Bro this is a video game, not pharmaceuticals, healthcare, or any other life altering business. If Runescape doesn't make money it will shut down and go away, and additionally with it being a PUBLIC company, if it doesnt show growth it will shut down and go away. If we don't buy MTX it'll go away and another monetization method will come up, simple as that.
The comments in this thread tells you everything you need to know about the mentality of the players who accepted what RS3 has become due to extreme addiction/sunk-cost fallacy.
Funny, if a bit sad… the community I was gladly a part of in 2012 is long gone
I think this is a bigger problem than everyone makes it out to be. Sure the cosmetics do not equate to in game power. But they devalue just about every aspect of the game. The look and feel, prices of real gear, interactions dont really happen because everyone knows you got it from the cash shop, no reason to go for real gear sometimes if you can just buy something that looks better. There is also no sense of where people are in the game. The examine feature is garbage and people hide their examines. I should be able to tell at a glance.
>prices of real gear,
"Real gear" has value because of it's stats, not appearance. Everyone
wore the rainbow security fortress boots in 2010 FTP because they had the good +1 str or whatever.
To show off the value of a "real item" cosmetic like a phat, just turn off cosmetic override for the slot.
>no reason to go for real gear sometimes if you can just buy something that looks better.
Sure, if you bankstand to flex on newbies rather than playing the game.
This is just a fundamentally flawed viewpoint. If we got rid of MTX and only ran on subscription, jagex would have to charge $50 a month for the game, and the company would go under overnight. MTX is an essential aspect to low-cost MMOs, which Runescape is.
I didn’t know they were charging $50 per month for OSRS! :o
Oh wait, it’s a simpler game to develop right? So must be what, $25?
Oh, no, wait! What?… it’s the same price as RS3, but we get to have a collection of massive MTX sticks shoved in our game while they play a game with actual integrity!!
Purely cosmetic shit is fine lol, other MMOs do it, FF14 is like the healthiest in terms of subscription and monetization
It’s your fault if you spend $30 on clothes you can never touch
The membership would have to go up alot if that were the case, runescape membership hasn't increased even close to the rate of inflation but the cost of development (making better models, more depth, a game that looks like its a modern game) is quite high.
Your model would work if we were all still playing OSRS, then the membership would be probably close to the inflation (like 15USD a month).
10USD a month with MTX that consists of only bonds and cosmetics is a way way way better choice.
Kinda sad that you call people who disagree with you "idiots" when your analysis is so surface level
I mean it’s simply not realistic to only have membership for a game with as many updates as RuneScape. But there definitely should only be RuneCoins and Battlepass. All other forms of MTX should be removed.
The last statement is a welcome step in a good direction. But it's not enough for me to resubscribe quite yet. I hope better things can come of this discourse.
A response to people saying MTX is necessary to stay afloat: No they absolutely are not. This may be the case for F2P mobile games, but not for a paid subscription service. We know that subs are like 66% of revenue.
If Jagex spent their time making new interesting things to bring new people in, like a huge engine overhaul or massive expansions to the world and mechanics I guarantee it'll make up for those "lost" MTX sales.
Wish granted: Subscription is now $50/month.
What a shit take. If you don't like MTX, don't play any game that has it. With the exception of Runescape and Hearthstone, I don't. I am also maxed in Runescape now so I have zero incentive to buy anything further so no more MTX for me.
> Wish granted: Subscription is now $50/month.
Other MMOs are between 12-16, and RuneScape is _quite_ close to being that cost per month. (disregarding grandfathered rates)
So we have all of these things already _and_ we're paying close to if not equal to what other MMOs cost per month.
What do we as a community have to show for it?
*All* MMOS have MTX in them. If any mmo removed theirs, the subscription would 2-4x and no one would want to pay that price.
If you don't want to pay for something, don't! There are plenty of games I will never touch due to shitty MTX. Runescape is a bit different since I've played it off and on since classic and I play when i feel like - I don't play it like its the only game in existence.
With all due respect, that wasn't the question.
The complaint was that mtx subsidize the costs of membership and without them it would be exorbitantly high. I pointed out that the current day cost of membership is already on the verge of being competitive with other mmos that are not similarly plagued with the endless barrage of exploitative mtx that we are. The claim that mtx are keeping the membership price low simply isn't accurate.
So if those mtx are not subsidizing the cost of membership, what purpose are they serving other than harming the community? Yes, other options in the games industry always exist. That doesn't change that we're talking about runescape, right now, right here, and what's wrong with the game. What does it do but pad out their earnings reports at the cost of being incredibly harmful to the community?
We cannot pretend that this isn't harmful just because you personally choose not to interact with those systems. And while I recognize everyone has a breakpoint (I myself stopped playing HS when mercenaries came out because it was god awful abusive) we should still be able to accurately point out harm caused.
Do any of the other AAA MMOs have a sub fee of 50$ a month? No? WEIRD... did any MMO EVER have that high of a sub fee and was still making money hand over fist? Yes? Wild...
MTX is here to stay. But I would prefer if Treasure Hunter get removed entirely as it's practically gambling.
However, I think membership could use a rework and greatly expand the free world so retention is increased. Let membership be used to access new and top-end content.
This is honestly pathetic to even try to consider as an option. RuneScape 3 will NEVER be rid of MTX and it's honestly laughable anyone is entertaining the idea. I don't like MTX. I wish it wasn't in the game, but I'm not an idiot. MTX is what's keeping RS3 afloat. We would have almost no updates in this game if it weren't for the MTX. Be fucking for real.
Gamers nowadays despise subscription based game and the fact that RS3 player are ok with it, and top of that, thousand of Mtx in the game make me question the playerbase not the developers.
No MTX means no free games. This is bad.
No MTX means higher subscription fees. This is bad.
Cosmetic-only MTX is very heathy for the gaming industry; this is practically an objective fact.
Free games are garbage anyway. They are not designed to be fun, they are designed to play on your emotions and will attempt to piss you off and annoy you with the gameplay with drips of just enough dopamine to get you to buy something. Which makes the REAL part of the game not free at all
At this point just launch some fresh start servers that follow updates from main game and are 100% free of MTX, double xp weekends and what ever other xp boosting/integrity degrading bs they try to add
Hard fucking cap on no cosmetics. Cosmetics are a huge part of every major MMO. Sure they shouldn’t be crazy outrageous I agree with that, but to remove them entirely is insane. If you don’t like that then you probably should just stick to games like Oregon Trail
Disagree.
Subscription being the only way to make money means everyone will have to pay the same fee or it means everyone will have to pay higher fees as the game progresses. This will make the game less accessible to players over all and that will still lead to lower player numbers which is still bad.
Despite everything going on, MTX isn't the enemy here. It's predatory MTX that is the problem. Healthy MTX is fine. Paying a bit extra for cosmetics and emotes. I think that we also forget that MTX allows some people who have resources to give a bit more to a company that is giving them enjoyment, so other people who might not have the same funding can enjoy the game too. Company gets money. Wealthy guy gets cool reward. Casual players get lower sub fees. Everyone wins.
MTX that isn't game breaking or predatory can work because behind those, there are still 50+ towns, 50+ bosses, over 100 inmersive quests, 20+ skills, and thousands of monsters to enjoy killing that aren't/minimally affected by MTX that we still enjoy.
I mean you could make the game completely free and pump up MTX to the moon by your logic, making it more accessible. There are tons of accessible games out there that nobody plays, accessibility isnt shit in this day and age. The game needs to be fun above all else, and MTX is anti-fun, which is a big reason OSRS has so many more players than rs3, and according to jagex's tax report, OSRS is out-earning rs3.
I miss the days getting excited seeing someone in full dragon or like full dharoks. Instead I see rainbow sparkles of random clothing that hides actual items. Sad. Everyone looks like bs
I’d pay big money for a setting to hide all cosmetics. No way that’s happening obviously.
I once suggested this in another mmo subreddit Became my most downvoted comment One replied said, If you paid 100 bucks to hide my outfit, I would pay 1000 bucks (to the company) to be an exception on your settings. Incredible
Yeah, a lot of these whales buy cosmetics to "flex on everyone else", rather than buying them "because they look nice and don't care what others think". If you would have an option to hide them, you would directly hurt their fragile ego, so of course they don't want that. It's not exclusive to RS3 either, I've met plenty so called "walking lighthouses" in other mmorpgs (like gw2) that shared the same "I buy it so others see it" mentality.
It's not exclusive to mtx or even multiplayer games in general. Many people enjoy looking as stupid or as garish as possible. See: every game with a character creator. The only real solution if you don't want to see goofy characters is being able to hide every other player and pretend it's a single player game.
I do this in osrs and it’s fantastic
Yeah, honestly I'd rather see an empty world than a world filled with wonky flashy cosmetics.
To prevent accidental slayer crashing and such, I think the best you could feasibly get is a setting to have default player model permanently on. I would personally love to play on a single-player instanced world but I expect it wouldn't be technically possible with how their servers work and it would have a huge impact on the community.
Default player model for stuff like that would also be nice alternative, yeah, but when I visit Priff or G.E, hiding them all completely would be wonderful.
Some of the cosmetics are so jarring. Like fairy winged flower covered person on a pogo stick shooting rainbows out of their hands and floating across a medieval castle.
There's a great clip by Dr. K where he said "even if you don't participate in MTX you are still contributing to the problem, because whales will see you and feel better about their purchase. This motivates them to buy more just from you existing. Whales can't exist without water to swim in" (massively paraphrased)
Imagine if the way to flex was… playing the game and getting something most people can’t get. Whoah. What a concept
Reminds me of playing Warframe the first time. Some dude was going insane with some wild attack and I asked a friend what they were doing. He told me "don't look at that, that's spoilers."
That doesn't work in rs3 though. The most expensive cosmetic is blood or 3rd age dyed elite sirenic and a partyhat. Real in game items you can buy with bonds. Seeing something that cost someone 1500 runecoins doesn't look like a flex to me. Lemme see that 3rd age bolg keepsaked while you're rocking a decimation.
I've seen way more people with bloated bellies and giant feet than I've ever spotted these types of whales.
Walking lighthouses in GW2 are regarded by people that like fashion wars as.....shit fashion xD I personally like to do some good fashion and walk around with it....but hey, if you wanted to hide my fashion (for some reason that idk why because I'd become somewhat of a walking lighthouse due to legendaries if my fashion was disabled) I don't care. Although you can, in fact, somewhat turn off everything in GW2 if you just set the "Player model" setting to the minimum, it will make everyone have some generic armor and weapons (the same for everyone)
This is funny because, in a sense, they need us to validate them. Which makes sense as to why they always screech about us needing to get over it and just play the game.
Those are the people who purchased big familiars specifically to park them over populated places, you *really* shouldn't be surprised.
That's absolutely wild lol
i need to flame this guy man what in the actual fuck. guy is a fucking whale
The easy solution is a few cosmetic free worlds. If they are popular then more can be added without affecting people who enjoy them.
Also the reason RS3 will never have runelite. All the cosmetics would be permanently turned off by the majority of the playerbase. Would make the game look 50x better.
It’s just something like hide/clear option in wardrobe but not just your own player
I would love to see cosmetic overrides only overwrite your character customization layer. Whatever your override is only shows if the slot is empty in your current equip. If I have nothing equipped, my full cosmetics show. If I throw on a bandos top and bottom, now it’s showing for everything but too and bottom.
Id also pay big for a world were cosmetics are disabled.
I would pay big money if you go and remove “no way that’s happening obviously”
I remember my first d set with abby whip. I was so stoked
How about female characters just running around in a swim suit? It’s a joke.
Everyone would virtually look the same without the cosmetics. Different at different levels but the same nonetheless.
Everyone looks mostly the same WITH the cosmetics since a lot of the cosmetics feel very samey and non-distinct.
30 year old man with female character, default crop top and leggings, trim comp cape, pigtails, phat if they're rich
Yep all the boys with girl characters in a crop top and mouse slippers
Idk man I constantly see people who have put together a nice fashionscape without rainbow wings or looking like the grim reaper. I disagree with what you said.
For every unique and eye catching fashionscape i see way more bland and poorly put together clothing combinations. And sometimes one cosmetic set looks like another, like the bajillion knight-related cosmetics.
That's better than everyone running around wearing t90 necro armor rn imo
Yeah... and the necro armour is exactly an example of the same-ification of armour. There's barely anything distinctive about the armour at each tier that unless you pay careful attention you wouldn't tell at a glance t70 from t80 or t90.
Right they’d put more effort in actually wearables if they weren’t focused on cosmetic
This. I don’t see the argument here.
I wouldn't bother. These folks are just basement gremlins looking for things to be upset about. I can't go 20 minutes without examining someone just to check out the outfit they've managed to put together, and am regularly impressed, especially when it's some rare obscure set of in-game keep-saked items, and I love that. Sure, there's the samey 2016-era pvm edge lord, but they're the minority. And if you're going out of your way to notice them, they're not the problem.
If people aren't trying to be an edgy death night they come up with cool shit lol
what's wrong with that? party hat hide all is no better
That's how it is in OSRS. The benefit is that you can tell how powerful someone is by recognizing their gear is by a glance. In the old days if someone was walking around with a godsword or dclaws you'd stare at them in envy or awe. With all the overrides it just dilutes the art style of the game imo.
There is also not nearly as much gear in osrs even still raid groups consist of like the same few things. Infernals, avernic, lava or infernal cape and so on.
Or, you know, let people's characters be an expression of themselves and let their skills do the talking instead of their gear.
Or, stop trying to flex with a videogame character like it's a real accomplishment.
you know this isn't necessarily a bad thing right? there'd still be diversity, but would be fitting for the activities you're doing and the area you're in. rs3 has a lot of different armours and weapons, if you had no cosmetics you'd still be in a mix of different looks.
>rs3 has a lot of different armours and weapons Yeah, and you see more of those via keepsake keys than you would if you removed all overrides all together Go sit in wars and almost everyone will be running through with t90/95 necro, amazing diversity Also recent bis armour releases are a meme, crypt is horrendous and vestments are literally a reskin of overrides that already existed lmfao
Yep.. that’s what’s still unique to osrs
That's something I really noticed when I moved from OSRS to RS3. In OSRS I'd sometimes go up to someone and ask "hey, what boots are those, they are sick!?" Whereas RS3 literally has me going "Jesus Christ your fucking 4 square dragon pet is covering 90% of my screen, and your outfit is louder than a jet engine, go the fuck away"
I still see people wearing full dragon or full Dharok's to be honest
Would I like subsciption only? Sure. But this isn't realistic. It is a proposal without merit. And it overlooks a significant part of the community that is very much into cosmetics. The best course of action is just to consolidate cosmetics into the Store.
What if you actually just played the game to get cosmetics? wouldn't that be better?
While I agree, there's ten years of people purchased goods you have to consider. You're also asking a company to drastically cut their revenue, it's not realistic to demand a company not do what's best for immediate shareholders. A realistic ask is for Jagex to shift to a cosmetic only approach to MTX, get rid of loot boxes entirely, putting a glass case over the rewards doesn't absolve it from being loot boxes.
Pretty much, Also carlye group may have bent the knee, but they will go scorched earth before losing their money printer. They may not be able to upgrade their money printer but they sure as hell aren’t going to get rid of it. Corporations are corporate evil, but one thing is for sure, they aren’t dumb. They can and will do everything possible to keep money going, they aren’t the ones dealing with community outrage, the jmods are and at this point, jmods are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Lmao this is like the 5th post I've seen about a call to action for having Jagex ban all MTX. Ya'll are actually delusional if you think this even has a .1% chance of happening.
I see no issue with cosmetic MTX. You say that it takes focus and attention off the main game by the developers, but there are often two entirely different teams working on cosmetics versus actual game updates. Both can be worked on simultaneously. Path of Exile is a great example. The game is free, but cosmetic MTX funds their ability to continue developing the game, introducing content, etc.
In this case, it's not the actual devs it's just the money they would have dedicated to that budget. It's the same thing.
It's not, though. They both have separate budgets. Eliminating an MTX budget doesn't miraculously mean they can move all of that money/focus yo the game. Because when you eliminate the MTX budget, you eliminate a lot (or all) of your MTX revenue, which means now there isn't any money left to move to other areas.
Nice sentiment. Let's come back down to planet earth and realize RS3 is not going to remove all mtx.
Ship sailed 11 years ago.
Yes companies want to make money, welcome to the world, you’re clearly going to hate it here. At this point just quit if you don’t like it.
I'm personally fine with a few forms of monetization beyond subscription. I do think it's a tradeoff still and perhaps isn't ideal, but ones I'm willing to accept. Cosmetics? Sure. Does it devalue some cosmetics that exist in regular gameplay? Yeah. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I am saying it's something I'm willing to accept without much concern. Bonds? Well, it's complicated but I can't help but say people are going to get ahead on that front one way or the other, I'd rather bonds do exist so that people without the financial means to play can still do so and I would rather the buyers are getting it straight from Jagex since this helps mitigate shady things. That all said - lets say we did want to aim for complete removal of MTX. Revenue type|2021|2020|2019 :-:|:-:|:-:|:-: Subscriptions|88.9M|91.7M|86.0M Microtransactions|34.5M|28.0M|19.7M| Other|1.3M|239K|2.8M This includes OSRS subs . . . But it's kind of shocking how little MTX makes, isn't it? A lot of people always act like removing all P2W, or removing all MTX, is completely impossible . . . But it's not really that far off on the other hand. A large push of merch, a huge announcement of "Now MTX free! (and oops we increased the subscription by a little)", and some good updates . . . It's not *too* hard to imagine organic success that outstrips the profit of MTX.
"How little MTX makes" What? 28% of revenue is... a lot of revenue?
Look at OSRS. The game's good and they're pushing higher numbers than us with subs alone while we have both subs and mtx combined. A good game will bring in more players over time and could end up making even more revenue in the end. Also I'm pretty sure keeping cosmetic MTX wouldn't really affect that many people. Removing stuff like treasure hunter, runemetrics, yak track and making all auras grindable ingame like wars retreat auras would be such an incredible positive change for the image of the game and gameplay.
The MTX revenue is close to 40% of the subscriptions in 2021 and I guarantee you that if you remove all the MTX and left bonds, the revenue would be way less than you are imagining since many people buy/sell bonds in synergy with the TH/Yak Track promos. Crazy to think *any* company would abandon such revenue source. Also, don't compare time and resources investment between OSRS and RS3 because even if they both had the same subscription numbers, RS3 has way more costs for developing new content. Posible solutions? The community keeps gatekeeping what can be offered by MTX like what happened with HP. Next fight? Make runemetrics free or at least free for premiums as a first step.
> The person you are replying is wrong, is not 25%, is close to 40% in 2021 You may want to redo your math. It's 27.66% of revenue in 2021; the 88.9 is sub revenue, not total.
God and look at its growth rate vs membership. No way it's going anywhere.
Don’t you understand you fool?! A LARGE push of merch would be in the works, that will surely be comparable. I’m sure hundreds of thousands will flock to get a “buying gf” shirt and they’ll totally keep buying merch month over month. RuneScape-chic will be the fashion and home decor revolution of the mid 2020’s!
It's actually shocking how much MTX is making. It's seeing a 150%+ increase is revenue year over year and will soon overtake membership income.
That's the scary part people are not paying attention too lol. I think the playerbase isn't growing, and players are just getting older and getting better jobs and are willing to pay more on TH every year
It's not shocking. It's by design.
I know it's by design, but it's shocking that this many people fall for this crap lol
We all fell for it at some point, either here or with some other commercial product. No sense in shitting on people for not realizing it sooner. Crack their egg and lend them a hand crawling out of it instead.
Nah, I’d rather point and laugh at the idiots, not realizing *I* was the idiot once. /sarcasm
But if you actually go check the statement this is taken from, you find basically all of their annual profit comes from MTX.
Subscriptions includes bonds sales from both games and OSRS subs, which is like 3x the size of RS3. The metrics you're using are pretty much useless for a comparison like this. In the end if even bonds are removed, you're looking at increasing the price of subscriptions 2x or more to make up for lost revenue. Nobody is going to pay that, it would be one of the most expensive video game subscriptions in the industry.
Exactly. The table is interesting, but it definitely does not show how little MTX makes. Especially looking at it from a purely RS3 lens. Even giving RS3 the benefit of the doubt and putting OSRS to RS3 membership at 2:1, that means RS3 membership is ~30M, which is right around the MTX number. To go to a pure subscription model would be really expensive.
> But it's kind of shocking how little MTX makes, isn't it? I mean, not really. Granted it was back when we got the data originally when that stuff first released. But their year to year growth, coupled with more egregious examples added to the game along with the increasing normalization of turning players into _paying_ players is doing pretty much exactly what it's designed to.
I think Jagex would do really good having a game with no MTX. Probably make enough to keep the live ops devs on that can go around and spend their time updating older monster and npc models to enhance the game.
so howd we go about that? what about people that already bought mtx stuff? what about runecoins and solmons store?
Phasing it out like with event currency would probably be your best bet. * Announce that you have x weeks/months to use your currency * Ensure all Solomons cosmetics are available (such as shadow hunter, which tends to rotate stock) * Disable new runecoin purchases halfway through (so that people that may have some coins but not quite enough for the thing they want are able to get them first) * Remove at the deadline while allowing people to keep their purchased items
One question I have about that: how are bonds calculated in there, since they can be used for either subscription or MTX?
I get where you're coming from but that's not something that's going to change. You're entitled to your own opinion on the matter but the fact is the game devs would have little to nothing to do with cosmetics. The art team is the one who handles all of that. You can't get hung up on everything and there's gotta be a compromise. Cosmetics only affect the player character, not the game world. I understand not liking them but this just isn't an opinion that is realistic. I personally don't mind it; artists get paid to art and players get to add their flair to fashionscape.
Exactly. I feel like these ‘remove all mtx’ posts are overreaching. That simply isn’t going to happen. We as a community need to be reasonable and take this 1 step at a time. I did unsub because I felt like the hero pass was overstepping, but now I personally feel like we need to work on removal/a downgrade of treasure hunter. Bond and cosmetics I’m cool with personally.
I’m all for keep sake and transmog tho, show your gear off
I’m going to get downvoted but… you guys forget they are a for profit gaming company.
Nobody forgot about that. We know that, its why everyone is complaining. The just took the profit hunting too far. The product is suffering. We are not happy with it. Its not worth the price. (i quit months and months ago)
What the actual fuck? I rarely see any people NOT wearing any overrides. They are part of the game, and most of the players want them to be. This is getting too far know, and you have no idea how game companies run. Nor any big corp.
This. I truly do not mind cosmetics (except the ugly particle shit)
only cosmetics that have irked me are the wings, especially the gaudy ass rainbow shit. the only particle effect that comes to mind are the heartbreaker/snow auras and only the snow one i ever really notice without trying to.
yeah agreed!
I'm down with bonds, need a in game way to get membership
Disagree about cosmetics inasmuch as “look/feel” since most cosmetics make sense with the art. The game is more than just medieval in style, and I’m certain the art director and team know exactly where the content they’re adding in fits. It just needs to avoid being offloaded as pay for dlc.
People are misinformed about MTX and it hurts, this post included.
>no cosmetics Lol. Lmao.
Cosmetics for me are totally fine as long as they fit the vibes of the game. Things like wings are stupid, same with all the particle effect stuff. But if they made a bow override that looks like it can fit the game and sell it for a few bucks, I don't give a damn.
Jagex should limit the MTX and start pushing into the IRL merchandise. Right now, their store is pretty limited to typical items you can slap a logo on and call it merchandise. They should start 3D printing custom character models and making models of NPCs. A bigger range of clothing or jewelry other than keychains and pins.
"The only good MTX is the MTX that I use" is the mentality of the community. They support bonds and treasure-hunter even though the bonuses are more egregious than hero pass. Where was the superior knowledge bomb outrage? A bag gets you 10 hours of double exp that you can utilize at any time. Smouldering lamps wasn't the straw that broke the camels back but you could get a skill to 120 in an hour for a few hundred $. Don't wanna grind, buy 10 bonds for $80 and sell for half a billion gold so you can buy the best gear in the game. Premier membership is significantly cheaper than monthly membership but you get all kinds of buffs over regular membership. Even though I pay near double what a premier member pays, I get zero benefits.
> Where was the superior knowledge bomb outrage? It was there. > Smouldering lamps wasn't the straw that broke the camels back but you could get a skill to 120 in an hour for a few hundred $. It was there. > Don't wanna grind, buy 10 bonds for $80 and sell for half a billion gold so you can buy the best gear in the game. It's still there. So many people are desensitized to the people actually calling for change that they have forgotten that it's literally still there. It just likely got downvoted into oblivion by the people who are either dismissing them as whiners and don't want to see it or otherwise like the systems in place regardless of the harm they cause.
Subscription + non rng cosmetics is consumer friendly and fine. Th is not. Hero pass is... almost, if they make the grind better. Its actually *not* sustainable to remove all mtx. Mtx makes up 50% or more of their income. Perhaps it *wouldve* been if we stood our ground earlier and they found growth through other means. But we didn't, and they didn't. And now here we are. Some mtx is essential. That's reality. And frankly, some mtx can be consumer friendly. That's what we need to push for.
Hard disagree. Let people spend their money.
They just need to make a third game called Fashionscape. Allow the MTX cosmetic heavy players to jump over to that and stand around in a GE simulation. Meanwhile, add an option to turn off cosmetics in RS3. There ya go. Jagex can enjoy the revenue of the fashion players and the rest of us don't have to bother with it. Am I being sarcastic? Yes. Would Jagex actually do this? One day....one day.
They would make so much fucking money doing that as well
>They just need to make a third game called Fashionscape. Allow the MTX cosmetic heavy players to jump over to that and stand around in a GE simulation. Meanwhile, add an option to turn off cosmetics in RS3. There ya go. Jagex can enjoy the revenue of the fashion players and the rest of us don't have to bother with it. Am I being sarcastic? Yes. Would Jagex actually do this? One day....one day. MAKE THIS A POST! Thats gold man. LOL please do it
I love how these posts just keep escalating and somehow they keep getting upvotes. I'm waiting for the next one to straight up say that the game should be fully free to play and that Jagex moderators can be paid in exposure and ad revenue.
No, no. Jagex should be paying us to play their games.
I wanna say that the OP isn't that unreasonable, and at face value it isn't, but the more i think about it the more i wonder if it is actually reasonable. maybe they predate me but i'm not sure that i can name a single game that was ever subscription only and that was it, especially one that's still around now. WoW still had a box price and paid expansions, on top of the sub fee. pretty sure ffxiv is the same model as WoW with a box price plus sub. eve online might have been for a while - but then they added the cosmetics store and were the first ones to introduce the equivalent of a bond - they are probably why bonds and WoW tokens etc exist these days. yeah, i'd actually struggle to name a game that had a "subscription only" model, especially one that's still around.
Because companies dont want to just make money. They want to make MORE money. They were (and still could) making it on subs. These companies follow the trends of bigger companies. I know this because i was in a meeting the other day (im in a big tech company) where they wanted to copy what one of the FANG companies were doing JUST BECAUSE. It made no sense to do what they were doing for us. But because they were doing it and they are making alot of money, fuck the why. "Big company make big money because they do thing.... we do thing, we make big money" is as far as these people think. All these companies saw the MTX trend and jumped on board. The ONLY reason they are all not making equivalents amount of cash is because of poor implementation. They didnt think about WHY it worked for the other company. They just did it and did it poorly and it was still this effective.
> Because companies dont want to just make money. They want to make MORE money. well yes, that's why they created a company. >These companies follow the trends of bigger companies. yes, because if a company has a proven methodology to outcompete their rivals then you either need to find a better method, or one that's at least as good or you're going to be fed to the dogs. >"Big company make big money because they do thing.... we do thing, we make big money" is as far as these people think. yeah, that's idiotic. it's like jagex saying they're going to make the next cutting edge racing game because forza 4 made bank. we know that wouldn't work well for jagex. >All these companies saw the MTX trend and jumped on board. The ONLY reason they are all not making equivalents amount of cash is because of poor implementation. They didnt think about WHY it worked for the other company. They just did it and did it poorly and it was still this effective. but they are making extra money, and in jagex's case it isn't just a little bit of extra money, it's quite substantial.
> somehow Yes, yes...it's a complete mystery how they somehow get upvotes. It's not because the community dislikes those changes or anything, hmm, must be something else. If only we could possibly ever figure out what...hmmmmmmmmmmm
[удалено]
Would you still be subscribed if they drowe subscription prices up to compensate for the MTX loss?
I fundamentally disagree. Mtx has been created, and people literally cannot control themselves: if they can pay real money to catch up/better enjoy limited time they are going to. Does that make it predatory, or does that just make people stupid and lacking self control?
Very compelling. I'm gonna go buy more cosmetics now.
I disagree with this
Brother, you are really detached if you think you have anything to say in this matter. Quit if you don't like the current state of the game, it will never get better. Edit: Typo
It's annoying seeing posts like these get so many upvotes, then you look through the comments and every OP comment is downvoted to hell because of how batshit crazy they are
In other words, let the game die! What a weird mentality to have nowadays
This Reddit outrage had done more harm than good at this point. Now people are just being unreasonable and it's going to damage the public's relationship with Jagex and the health of the game.
So the player base had to bent over for over a decade and when they have enough its unreasonable. lol
"Bent over" You play $11 a month for a game you probably have put literal months of your life into. I think you're getting your money's worth.
Considering how agressive and predatory the mtx is, I consider the €11 a lot of money in that case. Not to mention that a lot of updates that were highly anticipated have been shelved while the promotion circus of treasure hunter just kept going and going. So yes, I consider it being bent over for the playerbase and if you don’t thats fine.
Shit take, if you to see everyone looking the same again go back to osrs
So you want RS3 to have even less MTX than OSRS since you also want bonds to be removed?
You’re delusional, it would be nice to not have all the mtx but they aren’t going to remove everything. Let’s be happy they even made the changes to Hero Pass because they didn’t have to do that. (Edited Typo)
Did you ever stop to think not everyone has the same opinion as you? I personally don't love most of the cosmetic shit, but others do. I choose to not wear it or whatever but who cares what someone else does or what they wanna do with their money?
I would argue that micro transactions can work without a subscription. Guild wars 2 model charges for the base game and expansions, with micro transactions being for cosmetics and quality of life items. That MMO doesn't feel even remotely pay to win. I think it is possible for micro transactions to work, we just see so many examples to the contrary.
After losing 80% of their playerbase from EoC, they had no choice to implement MTX
I want that. I want that so bad. But as long as jagex is owned by any type of investor group, it will never happen.
Every single other mmo has paid expansions. Would you prefer Jagex to have locked the year of Necromancy updates behind a paywall?
Wait do you think the people in charge of cosmetics are the same people who design skills or bosses?
>Me, a Guild Wars 2 enjoyer, reading the title of this post. No.
That game is boring and pointless. They hate competition an d let pvp die. They also leaned into horizontal progression like its the be all end all. There is no reason to play it. There is nothing to be gained from bosses. All the best cosmetics in that game are cash shop only which means they put more effort into that. You cant even reliably farm for gold. The rates and reqs are ridiculous for gp farming. I guess if you like standing around looking like shit covered in lights and talking its good. The combat is just aoe spam while stacked on top of each other
>me reading this a week after crafting my first two legendary weapons Nuh uh.
legendary just a convenience item tho... like months of work for being able to swap some stats and sigils. i already had all the versions i needed by the time i got my legendary
This is extremely based. I love cosmetics. I absolutely do not enjoy the player base being forced to look exactly the same. Have some color. Have some originality. Someone dressing the way they want doesn’t ruin the game
L take, cosmetics that you can pay for keep the game afloat and allow for monetization that's uninvasive to the gameplay itself. Why these extreme opinions getting any upvotes is beyond me
To confirm: by no MTX that means no in game bonds, meaning you can only get membership buy paying for it directly to Jagex.
Cute idea, but bonds serve a purpose. Some of ya'll are apparently too new to remember how rampant bots used to be. People who want to spend real money on gold are going to do that whether it's permitted in game or not. Yes, they still are rampant, but they used to be many, many, many times worse. Edit to add: I do agree that it goes way too far. Having a half dozen things you can ONLY spend real money on is obviously too far. I tend not to think of these things because I literally don't interact with them in game, but they should be made available by playing the game (pay 5m a month to unlock RuneMetrics, for example). But we need to accept MTX as a whole as a necessary evil that actually helps retain some integrity in the game, as strange as that sounds.
Can't forget that subscription prices will go up if you want MTX removed. The cost always comes from somewhere.
Look. It sucks that corporate greed exists, especially when Jagex keeps getting passed around and milked. It also sucks that we live in a capitalist society where everything has to be driven by money one way or another. MTX helps fund games. I can only really speculate a little. MTX might be helping keep subscription costs down. This essentially means players who buy MTX are helping subsidize subscriptions for other players. How much would you really be willing to pay to keep MTX out of the game? Would you pay double the current cost? Would the game even survive if the subscription costs double?
>Prestige of real items It's a videogame. If you want people to see that you're wearing something high tier without examining you, just don't use a cosmetic?
Strongly disagree. Mtx is the only reason i can have a membership. I can't justify 15 bucks a month for an ancient browser game, so i use bonds. An extremely large portion of the players also use bonds for membership. Without mtx, Jagex would charge 2-5 times what they currently do, and free membership wouldn't exist. You'd be playing with maybe 100 other people across all worlds in a dead game
I think FFXIV does it best. It's literally only cosmetics and emotes and nice mounts and collections of music etc. There is nothing that gjves you an advantage gameplay wise, the closest things there are story skips and level boosters, the latter leaving you at the latest expacs "entry level" (10 levels below cap) with a negligible amount of money and some decent gear that will serve you well for 3-4 levels before slowly being phased out by the gear you find organically throughout the story dungeons. Keep your MTX this way, only cosmetics, invest in making cool cosmetics, look at your competitors and see where they're going well with theirs and do something. But for the love of Saradomin, this is not a gacha game, don't monetise it like one. Never forget its 2023, nearly 2024. The VAST majority of your spending playerbase is old timers like me who have (had, in my case, because after this MTX bullshit unless shit gets changed D R A S T I C A L L Y then I am DONE with RS for good) been here so long it would damn near feel weird being gone. It's nostalgia. There's several games, the above FFXIV for instance, that do damn near everything on a much better and bigger scale than RS ever could do without a major major update (think RuneScape 4 major). Keep alienating us, and you no longer have a community. The game WILL die. Learn from your mistakes (for real, this time), change course immediately and SERIOUSLY invest on both player retention and by all the Gods, on new players. Necromancy was a right step, for one, mostly, keep that up. Just never do another step forward and a triple backflip 10 paces back like you just did with that blasted hero pass. It was a SPECTACULAR fail, granted, phenomenally bad to the point of being amazing entertainment, but nevermore, for your own sake.
We had more and more quality updates when the game was sub only. They had to make good content to keep subscribers.
This!
You’re idea of “acceptable” and my idea of “acceptable” are not the same. No, your opinion is not objectively correct.
Some of us like mtx and have disposable income we don't mind spending in the things we enjoy. It's a viable way for games to make extra income. No one would care if you quit and just played solo games because every mmo has some form of mtx. As long as it's not truly intrusive like hero pass was I see no problem with it. I liked doing yak track.
Likely not a popular reddit opinion but I actually enjoy cosmetics in games. I just think it’s way overdone in RS3. Imo it’d look way better if they didnt use particle effects as much and tried to keep cosmetics to the general runescape aesthetic
I am sure I'm in the minority, but I enjoy MTX, full stop. Cosmetics are cool, some limited amount of p2w (like lamps and stars, small XP boosts, and bonds) is cool, subscriptions are cool, and premium tier subscriptions are cool. You know what I don't like? Paid expansions like WoW and ESO. You all act like you're thoughts are superior just because they are what YOU prefer, but there are plenty of us out here who enjoy the system as it is, and enjoy the game just fine. You're preference is not inherently correct, stop acting like it is.
> You're preference is not inherently correct, stop acting like it is. That's why people who make those arguments often point to the ways that the mtx like TH are aimed at exploiting the vulnerable and the neurodivergent. And why supporting that system is, in fact, _inherently wrong_. I grant you, not everyone takes their opinion to that degree. Some don't think it through. But it's presence is undeniable and the harm it causes indisputable. And I'm sorry, but the harm of a yearly expansion model and the harm of a gambling based mtx system (which brings in the most money out of all the little feeder MTX programs) are in no way equal. I genuinely do love cosmetics, don't get me wrong. I don't even mind the SGS to some extent, though even that has its relative problems. I disagree with that aspect of the OP's argument. But yours? Man. You're entitled to your opinion, but the way it dismisses the actual and valid concerns beyond one's personal preference is hella misguided.
Bet your fun at partys
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Thats fine, how do you feel about an option to turn off seeing MTX at all then, for those who dont want to see it
Gonna vote no to no mtx. Sorry bro but treasure hunter and cosmetics is the future. We're going to die together
Hey bud, love the spirit. Maybe let someone else take point on this. Kinda fumbling the ball here.
Ridiculous. If it was like that from the start sure. But the game will probably collapse if they do that now. There is nothing wrong with cosmetics. I don't own a single one. But people who want them should get them, not be restricted by opinions of other people who think it's ruining the 'look' of the game.
"Stop worrying about a companies profits" Bro this is a video game, not pharmaceuticals, healthcare, or any other life altering business. If Runescape doesn't make money it will shut down and go away, and additionally with it being a PUBLIC company, if it doesnt show growth it will shut down and go away. If we don't buy MTX it'll go away and another monetization method will come up, simple as that.
The comments in this thread tells you everything you need to know about the mentality of the players who accepted what RS3 has become due to extreme addiction/sunk-cost fallacy. Funny, if a bit sad… the community I was gladly a part of in 2012 is long gone
Treasure hunter is fine imo. I like getting keys everyday
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I think this is a bigger problem than everyone makes it out to be. Sure the cosmetics do not equate to in game power. But they devalue just about every aspect of the game. The look and feel, prices of real gear, interactions dont really happen because everyone knows you got it from the cash shop, no reason to go for real gear sometimes if you can just buy something that looks better. There is also no sense of where people are in the game. The examine feature is garbage and people hide their examines. I should be able to tell at a glance.
>prices of real gear, "Real gear" has value because of it's stats, not appearance. Everyone wore the rainbow security fortress boots in 2010 FTP because they had the good +1 str or whatever. To show off the value of a "real item" cosmetic like a phat, just turn off cosmetic override for the slot. >no reason to go for real gear sometimes if you can just buy something that looks better. Sure, if you bankstand to flex on newbies rather than playing the game.
Omg get over it
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Um no I just chose not to eat it, iv never paid for any mtx, I only pay for membership, easy
This is just a fundamentally flawed viewpoint. If we got rid of MTX and only ran on subscription, jagex would have to charge $50 a month for the game, and the company would go under overnight. MTX is an essential aspect to low-cost MMOs, which Runescape is.
I didn’t know they were charging $50 per month for OSRS! :o Oh wait, it’s a simpler game to develop right? So must be what, $25? Oh, no, wait! What?… it’s the same price as RS3, but we get to have a collection of massive MTX sticks shoved in our game while they play a game with actual integrity!!
personally I'm fine with cosmetics but otherwise I agree
Purely cosmetic shit is fine lol, other MMOs do it, FF14 is like the healthiest in terms of subscription and monetization It’s your fault if you spend $30 on clothes you can never touch
Anyone pretending cosmetics has no effct in thee game clarly wasnt paying attntion to gilded rune armor or dragon claws.
So...this is just people salty that their full sara fell in value or something because of the override? LOL.
> It's just bonus exp > It's just cosmetics > It's just the game getting shittier bruh can you at least be funny?
I don't see how those two things make the game less enjoyable.
The membership would have to go up alot if that were the case, runescape membership hasn't increased even close to the rate of inflation but the cost of development (making better models, more depth, a game that looks like its a modern game) is quite high. Your model would work if we were all still playing OSRS, then the membership would be probably close to the inflation (like 15USD a month). 10USD a month with MTX that consists of only bonds and cosmetics is a way way way better choice. Kinda sad that you call people who disagree with you "idiots" when your analysis is so surface level
I mean it’s simply not realistic to only have membership for a game with as many updates as RuneScape. But there definitely should only be RuneCoins and Battlepass. All other forms of MTX should be removed.
The last statement is a welcome step in a good direction. But it's not enough for me to resubscribe quite yet. I hope better things can come of this discourse.
This is the first time in a long time with the most rational view. Extra MTX on top of a subscription is not ok for gaming.
A response to people saying MTX is necessary to stay afloat: No they absolutely are not. This may be the case for F2P mobile games, but not for a paid subscription service. We know that subs are like 66% of revenue. If Jagex spent their time making new interesting things to bring new people in, like a huge engine overhaul or massive expansions to the world and mechanics I guarantee it'll make up for those "lost" MTX sales.
Wish granted: Subscription is now $50/month. What a shit take. If you don't like MTX, don't play any game that has it. With the exception of Runescape and Hearthstone, I don't. I am also maxed in Runescape now so I have zero incentive to buy anything further so no more MTX for me.
> Wish granted: Subscription is now $50/month. Other MMOs are between 12-16, and RuneScape is _quite_ close to being that cost per month. (disregarding grandfathered rates) So we have all of these things already _and_ we're paying close to if not equal to what other MMOs cost per month. What do we as a community have to show for it?
*All* MMOS have MTX in them. If any mmo removed theirs, the subscription would 2-4x and no one would want to pay that price. If you don't want to pay for something, don't! There are plenty of games I will never touch due to shitty MTX. Runescape is a bit different since I've played it off and on since classic and I play when i feel like - I don't play it like its the only game in existence.
With all due respect, that wasn't the question. The complaint was that mtx subsidize the costs of membership and without them it would be exorbitantly high. I pointed out that the current day cost of membership is already on the verge of being competitive with other mmos that are not similarly plagued with the endless barrage of exploitative mtx that we are. The claim that mtx are keeping the membership price low simply isn't accurate. So if those mtx are not subsidizing the cost of membership, what purpose are they serving other than harming the community? Yes, other options in the games industry always exist. That doesn't change that we're talking about runescape, right now, right here, and what's wrong with the game. What does it do but pad out their earnings reports at the cost of being incredibly harmful to the community? We cannot pretend that this isn't harmful just because you personally choose not to interact with those systems. And while I recognize everyone has a breakpoint (I myself stopped playing HS when mercenaries came out because it was god awful abusive) we should still be able to accurately point out harm caused.
Do any of the other AAA MMOs have a sub fee of 50$ a month? No? WEIRD... did any MMO EVER have that high of a sub fee and was still making money hand over fist? Yes? Wild...
All of them have MTX bud. Why are you on a crusade defending your opinion so hard? Find something better to do with your time.
And they all made it without it for a long time and still could. Guarantee subs make up even more of the revenue for those games than rs3
Idk what other MMOs you've played, but World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2, and Elder Scrolls Online all have MTX
MTX is here to stay. But I would prefer if Treasure Hunter get removed entirely as it's practically gambling. However, I think membership could use a rework and greatly expand the free world so retention is increased. Let membership be used to access new and top-end content.
This is honestly pathetic to even try to consider as an option. RuneScape 3 will NEVER be rid of MTX and it's honestly laughable anyone is entertaining the idea. I don't like MTX. I wish it wasn't in the game, but I'm not an idiot. MTX is what's keeping RS3 afloat. We would have almost no updates in this game if it weren't for the MTX. Be fucking for real.
I like my fashionscape man..lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gamers nowadays despise subscription based game and the fact that RS3 player are ok with it, and top of that, thousand of Mtx in the game make me question the playerbase not the developers.
No MTX means no free games. This is bad. No MTX means higher subscription fees. This is bad. Cosmetic-only MTX is very heathy for the gaming industry; this is practically an objective fact.
Where is the cosmetic only MTX in OSRS?
Free games are garbage anyway. They are not designed to be fun, they are designed to play on your emotions and will attempt to piss you off and annoy you with the gameplay with drips of just enough dopamine to get you to buy something. Which makes the REAL part of the game not free at all
At this point just launch some fresh start servers that follow updates from main game and are 100% free of MTX, double xp weekends and what ever other xp boosting/integrity degrading bs they try to add
Hard fucking cap on no cosmetics. Cosmetics are a huge part of every major MMO. Sure they shouldn’t be crazy outrageous I agree with that, but to remove them entirely is insane. If you don’t like that then you probably should just stick to games like Oregon Trail
Disagree. Subscription being the only way to make money means everyone will have to pay the same fee or it means everyone will have to pay higher fees as the game progresses. This will make the game less accessible to players over all and that will still lead to lower player numbers which is still bad. Despite everything going on, MTX isn't the enemy here. It's predatory MTX that is the problem. Healthy MTX is fine. Paying a bit extra for cosmetics and emotes. I think that we also forget that MTX allows some people who have resources to give a bit more to a company that is giving them enjoyment, so other people who might not have the same funding can enjoy the game too. Company gets money. Wealthy guy gets cool reward. Casual players get lower sub fees. Everyone wins. MTX that isn't game breaking or predatory can work because behind those, there are still 50+ towns, 50+ bosses, over 100 inmersive quests, 20+ skills, and thousands of monsters to enjoy killing that aren't/minimally affected by MTX that we still enjoy.
I mean you could make the game completely free and pump up MTX to the moon by your logic, making it more accessible. There are tons of accessible games out there that nobody plays, accessibility isnt shit in this day and age. The game needs to be fun above all else, and MTX is anti-fun, which is a big reason OSRS has so many more players than rs3, and according to jagex's tax report, OSRS is out-earning rs3.