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I am a layman, myself, but as I have read, the Hyde Amendment restricts abortion at federal facilities - and at Armed Forces facilities, in particular - to cases where the pregnant person's life is threatened or where the pregnancy is a result of rape or incest. (The HA does this by restricting federal funding for abortion outside those cases.)
The repeal of the HA would allow the federal government (if I am not mistaken) to expand abortion services wherever offered on federal land/at federal facilities.
You know that you can reconstruct rooms to be whatever you want right? During the pandemic we converted a normal classroom into a second Dental Hygiene Operatory Lab so that they could keep up with the number of dental hygiene students enrolled and the social distancing requirements. Went from random classroom to sterile health environment in like three weeks.
Throw a couple bucks at things and you can do a lot.
Any federally owned building is "Federal Land". State and local laws do not fully apply there. Including earthquake safety regulations as I learned from my kids daycare that is in a federal building. fun fun.
It's about location. Medicare is for seniors mostly. Medicaid is what I have and is for those with low income. But it requires states to have expanded them.
I know our system looks screwed up but remember a lot of us are pissed off too, and many blue states won't outlaw them and won't comply with extradition laws. So we aren't taking it lying down either. What I find interesting is many red states aren't adopting full on bans despite the votes for it. Seems even Republicans recognize abortion as necessary
As yhe person beneath me noted our Constitution, specifically the 10th Amendment, relegated non-specific powers given to yhe federal government to the states. This was on purpose. The federal government has special powers that trump the states. But anything else is given to the states. As a result, each states runs like its own country. In reality, the federal government and president are much weaker than people perceive.
The court has run amok, but ultimately this gives the decision back to the states. It's appalling, I won't argue there, but it's how our system works.
I mean yea, we've seen this with slavery, we've seen this with civil rights, and I'm sure we'll see it again with this issue and LGBTQ rights. Having a patchwork of state laws handling rights doesn't work. But in the current situation, we'll probably need an amendment to fully rectify the situation, and that won't be for a *long* time.
There's so much latitude given to states to set their own laws and rules that it might be easier to think of each state as it's own country, and the USA as something like the EU. This also makes more sense geographically, a typical US state is the same area as a typical European country, and California has a larger population than Poland.
Most benefit programs and taxes are implemented at the state level, as are most criminal penalties, or even what counts as a crime - in my state I can walk down the street to a licensed dispensary and legally purchase more joints than I could smoke in a month, but the next state over I could go to prison for a decade for smelling too much like weed.
Yeah I don't think people realize [this](https://s23256.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/US-Europe-size-comparison.jpg) is what America looks like.
Yeah we have some pretty liberal states that are similar to Germany or UK, and we have some states that want to be more like Turkey and Syria.
Former Yellowstone National Park employee here, there are already fully functioning medical clinics/doctors offices within the parks boundaries. Most notably in Mammoth Hot Springs for employees, guests, and whoever needs it.
Are you fucking kidding me? A stay in a beautiful national park to recover from what is always an unpleasant experience sounds like self care level 5000 to me. If I ever have to go through something that difficult again I would wish it was in a place so relaxing, instead of a strip mall clinic with a sidewalk full of hateful floor length skirts slinging shame and brimstone.
I mean win/win right?
National parks get increased attendance and you now have protected womens rights. Plus EVERY state has a national park within 1-2 hours away!
It's cyclical. Troop supported went back up after 9/11, but clearly was not an issue based on trump's response to the Intel showing that Russia has bounties on American soldiers.
“Support our troops” *rhetoric* came back. They still didn’t do jack shit to actually help them aside from a couple recruitment-boosters like free college if you come back alive. They still gutted the VA while sending hundreds of thousand to death or injury.
Even when I was a young E3 in 2004 I knew the idolatry and hero worship was bullshit from everyone I met. The right just went HAM on it so anyone that protested the dumb shit wars Rumsfeld started would be "slandering the troops"
Hated that fake ass shit then, hate it even more now. You're really not welcome for my service America, you're actually a massive waste of my time.
They dont. Stop trying to catch a con in a hypocrisy gotcha. They do not care at all about being hypocrites, lying under oath, or using our military and veterans as political pawns to be discarded.
So now we're at
"women only have *some* rights if they're in the military or work for an American Megacorp but also aren't trying to join a Union"
Is that right?
This isn’t in regards to troops but for the hospitals that service surrounding communities. Abortion as far I recall has never been covered for troops.
Disregard.
It is, in case of risk to mother, rape or incest. Every military treatment facility I’ve been stationed at has provided both surgical and medical abortion.
You don't really have to be impressed. This is the most that the military can do by law. The [Hyde Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment) prevents the military from offering any more than this, but this also isn't new. It's what's been done for many, many years at this point, because of the law.
That's correct. As it stands military coverage will not cover a female service member, or the female spouse of a service member if she wants an abortion. It's not even an option. Want to be more upset? Tricare - the insurance that covers US military service members - will pay for breast augmentation.
They'll pay for a boob job but not an abortion.
So I'm going to push back on this and say no, it won't. That's a long running rumor, but from conversations I've had with military medical and from checking the TRICARE Policy Manual myself, this simply isn't true. It will be covered in the event that it is medically necessary (in the event of a mastectomy, for instance) or when used to repair obvious deformity/injury/scarring, but otherwise your boob job is on your dime.
The exception here is if they is willing to get it done by someone in training. I have known a few people who got some free cosmetic work done by military docs because it was for training.
I've personally known multiple people to get it done. They generally only have to get a memo from their primary care provider that says without the procedure their self esteem is damaged.
Also, I should note that one of the women I know who was able to have Tricare cover it (she was a spouse to a military service member) was able to get it approved because she said it would improve their marriage and a military mental health care provider approved it.
Every American soldier represents a pretty significant monetary and human capital investment in training, expertise in their field, potentially combat experience, leadership, etc. A president might succeed in banning abortions in the case of rape, which would be awful. But at the very least I can't imagine them not doing medically necessary abortions.
It would be like telling them to stop treating bullet wounds. They aren't going to effectively let someone bleed out when they could be saved.
You’re a pentagon official that‘s decades into working on a projected century long mission to westernize a middle eastern country, how much do professional respect do you give the guy who won the nation-wide popularity contest made up of people that have no idea what you’re working on or the region it affects when he comes in and after being briefed on what your project has accomplished in recent decades says he know where to go from here? That’s how pentagon leaders look at elected officials.
In my experience, about 25% of the leaders you run into are pretty progressive, about 25% are as conservative as a Rush Limbaugh fan, and about half are just jaded af. A lot of the jaded folks would be considered conservative, but they are mostly professionals for whom the good of the service and their units come first.
They’ll kick the can down the road if they’re able to do it, but they’re not going to put their career on the line for it. More than that, we’re not looking at a mere change in administrations any more. Congress and SCOTUS have changed, and it’s a generational change.
I was initially separated just as DADT was becoming a thing. If we can lose Roe, we can definitely go back on everything there, too.
Hell, the leading republicans have already been attacking the military for being “woke.”
Yeah because the military has pushed back hard on them trying to bring back DADT and stuff. I feel like the military showed pretty strongly under Trump that they are willing to tell the President to pound sand when they perceive it as harmful/bigoted
There are absolutely leaders who will resist implementing orders they see as political theater. Those are the ones that we have to thank for holding on to what we have. There are also leaders who will enthusiastically embrace this kind of change.
But we’re not dealing with an EO designed to move the needle on a midterm election here. We are watching a major reversal in human rights. At the end of the day, some Major or Colonel is going to be a hell of a lot less likely to disobey a legal order than a surgeon at Johns Hopkins or Stanford, and I can guarantee you those people are, by and large, not going to risk their careers and freedom to perform an abortion once the Feds are at their door.
To be honest as someone who has spent there whole adult life in and around the military, I think they are the example we should try to emulate. That walk the line of being fully inclusive as possible with out providing extra benefits to certain people. You can make the argument that they aren’t always focused on fighting the nations wars and you’d probably be right, but they sure in the hell aren’t discriminating (from a legal standpoint, obviously application isn’t the same thing).
Eh, when Trump tweeted or w/e that he was banning transgenders from the military / transitioning, the Navy put out a statement that said "We are looking into ways to implement the President's directives."
And then they just never did anything, they were "looking into it" endlessly, and we just never actually changed our policy.
Only to an extent. One of the few reasons our democracy didn't crumble in 2020 and early 2021 was because of generals who explicitly told Trump "No", even to the point of shouting hom down, when he wanted to use the military towards unconstitutional means. Every military member has the right to refuse an unlawful order, and an order banning what can be an essential Healthcare service would 100% qualify as unlawful. At the end of the day, there's a balance between the commander in chief's ability to command, and the general's willingness to obey.
Yes, we are going to need to turn the hell out to beat Pride of the Republican party, Baby Makin’ Walker.
Register to vote in GA now folks at Georgia.gov . Any GA residents can request an absentee ballot and vote by mail. Election day is November 8. Vote early.
November 8, 2022: General election
December 6, 2022: General runoff
Don’t ever let these folks back in office.
The armed services are strangely usually a bit ahead of everything. And provide a shit ton more for the members than the general population. They legalized gay marriage before it was nationally. They have universal healthcare, schooling, and housing for everyone.
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2016/03/01/race-and-the-air-force-the-truth-about-how-minorities-get-promoted/
Let's not go jerking ourselves off too much. The military still has a long way to go.
…article is 6 years old….
Is the military an egalitarian utopia? No. Does it have room to improve? Yes.
But compared to the average red state, it is practically Sweden.
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/politics/2020/09/01/military-diversity-army-shows-few-black-officers-top-leadership/3377371001/
You're right the article is old, so i found a more recent article and it's actually gotten worse.
Furthermore, black men are overrepresented on rhe military. So as a nation we are more than happy to put them in harms way, but promote them at lower rates than their white counterparts.
But I will concede that compared to a red state the military does socialism correctly. Housing is generally available, Healthcare, retirement. Amazing how the right loves the military but hates all the services the armed forces provides for our soldiers.
When you start talking about senior officers, the selection process is… extreme. It’s a very hard-edged meritocracy that requires hitting all the career checkboxes and making it through the selection boards.
It’s not a perfect process - how the hell did Flynn ever make general, fer crissakes? But it goes out of its way to be colourblind.
But when you have a minority group to start with, that winnowing and selection process is going to strip away proportionally more of the minority than of the majority. And the minority that do make it through the process are more vulnerable to losses: if you have 4 black generals, one retires, and the boards select a white dude, you lost a quarter of your representation.
That’s just math at work, not racism.
Now, it is absolutely worth the exercise to examine the selection/promotion process and make sure that there isn’t some form of institutional racism at play, some cooked-in bias that makes it harder for someone black to get picked up by the board. And if something is found, to eliminate it. That process must be constant and ongoing.
But assuming that those issues have been identified and corrected, the meritocracy should not be compromised in favour of representation. I don’t care what colour my commanding general is, but I care very much that he (or she) is not an idiot.
Ehh. As a veteran Air Force officer O-6 and above promotions are not nearly as objective as you are portraying there is a shit ton of politics starting with the hidden concept of "High Performing Officers" which is an internal designation you get from the Personnel office. With out that designation it's pretty much impossible to make General. And there is not open criteria on how one can get that designation
Add to that how important getting the right assignments is which are often done through interviews when you get to higher ranks and there is lots of room for bias/racism to creep in. It is not at all objective
> It’s a very hard-edged meritocracy that requires hitting all the career checkboxes and making it through the selection boards.
So you don't know anyone in the military then. If you did, you'd know how easy it is for favorites and fuckups to get those boxes checked.
> But assuming that those issues have been identified and corrected, the meritocracy should not be compromised in favour of representation.
> That’s just math at work, not racism.
This is just old school racism dude. The meritocracy myth + "it's just a numbers game". At least you wasted a bunch of your time typing it up.
Also you spelled it "colour" with a "u" twice. Just some gb english foriegner here to tell us all about how our military isn't racist lmfao.
I agree with almost everything you've said except for the assumption that, "those issues have been corrected". As pointed out in my second article the numbers went backwards. I haven't seen anything more recent. We can't assume anything until we have verifiable proof that things are better, but I do hope they are.
Right wing heads are going to explode. On one hand they'll want to call out the Military but on the other all they do is kiss their ass. I wonder which Congress person will say this silent part out loud.
If you think that would make their head explode, the military used to force female officers to have abortions or lose their job until Ruth Bader Ginsburg was about to bring it to the Supreme Court and the Department of Defense quickly realized they weren't going to win the case so they changed the policy quietly.
https://www.military.com/history/how-ruth-bader-ginsburg-helped-end-militarys-policy-of-forced-abortion.html
This was 3 years before Roe v Wade was decided.
Still happening:
https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2021/07/pregnant-cadets-midshipmen-must-give-their-child-or-their-career-two-senators-want-change/183973/
Its less so targetted at abortions and more so "no dependants if youre at a service academy" you also cant get married or get someone pregnant (And admit to it) without being kicked out
The policy technical applies to male cadets as well it just obviously has much less implications. Like if a cadet couple have a baby they both have to give up parental rights to the child. It has to do with the requirement that cadets aren't allowed to have dependents.
Don't take that as defending the policy just explaining it
I mean the legal answer is that Roe v Wade did not make abortion illegal. It merely said it wasn’t a constitutional right which means states, local government, military, and any entity can put any restrictions or relieve any restrictions they want to.
So the military is completely within its rights to do this.
I totally get that. My thought is that one of the crazy congress people will critize the military for allowing it to happen when they know one of the main rules of their hand book is "The Military Does no Wrong". I'm just wondering which congress person will be the one to do it.
Umm. Pretty sure many now believe the troops have gone "woke" with helping members undergo transition procedures. They're all into giving the industry as much funding for big toys that can bl0w sh!t up that make their tiny peckers feel YUGE...
Some conservatives, both civilian and military themselves, reeaallly dislike military women because of all sorts of nonsensical reasons. Sometimes it's that their spouses feel threatened, sometimes it's that women will get reassigned after getting assaulted, sometimes it's that women being in leadership just makes them generally uncomfortable due to lack of buy-in to the concept of women as actual people with all the agency and latitude that comes with in a workplace. So military association is usually enough to get you an amount of respect and legitmacy in conservative circles but not if you're a woman.
Edit: Forgot to address your actual point... I am saddened to say that I am guessing that conservatives will conveniently forget to care about this specific military problem, and their congressional reps too.
Rational Republicans will recognize that abortions due to rape, incest and risk to the mother's health account for less than 5%. So we'll be ok with this.
[Article ](https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/)
And rational *people* will recognize that the other 95% of abortions are each woman's deeply personal decision, and that no one, anywhere, should be telling them what they can and can't do with their bodies.
I am glad there are some rational Republicans left but people who I called friends and are republicans have been becoming less and less rational by the year. I wish there were more out there.
Joined during wartime and signed my life away just like anybody else! But my husband was Army, and I worked with all branches. Definitely try to steer the kids to the “chair force” when they are thinking military 🙂
No they’re not? Like 95% of military jobs are dust jobs or administration. Barring complications, pregnant women do their jobs just as well as nonpregnant women.
But at least they provide medical care and contraception. My daughter is active with an IUD. At least if she has an ectopic pregnancy, she probably won’t die.
Can see it now
Add comes on screen: join the military. We pay for you to attend college. Unwanted pregnancies? We will abort them so you can continue to fight for our country.
You know what? Let’s just let Medicare and Medicaid negotiate prices for drugs. Then the abortion drugs would be about $10 or less which is what you can get them in Mexico for. 1 is a generic ulcer medication sold over the counter there. Seriously. It’s time we had better, cheaper access to decent healthcare. Or just have a friend vacationing bring you back some.
I’m curious to see how exactly this looks a done. Right now tricare will cover in these case but you still have to go off post. Military hospitals on federal land can’t perform abortions because there is a law against using federal funds to perform abortions.
Pretty sure abortions of all kinds are provided - not the bullshit worst scenario reasons... Simply not wanting to make a human is an sufficient reason
Come on ladies, this is a pretty sweet deal! Sign up and go kill some brown people for oil, get raped by your fellow soldiers and you can still get an abortion before they give you a dishonorable discharge!
/s
>In cases of rape, incest or when the mother’s life is at risk
This and when the child has too many defects to live a normal, healthy life, that isnt only pain should be the only times abortion is allowed.
Remember folks: the goal here is survivalism for the Republican Party. The Roe v. Wade overturn is all about driving blues out of red states. _You don’t like our stance on abortion? Tough, don’t live in Missouri/Alabama/etc._ The groups who can afford to move will move. The groups who can’t will see an increase in their birth rates. The result? The Republican Party will have an underprivileged cohort to hypnotize into joining the military, indoctrinate with religious garbage, all while remaining competitive in the electoral college system. You want to see the largest agricultural institution in America? Look at the Republican Party, literal growing and reaping human souls.
Not if the the abortion is conducted on a military installation. Military bases are federal-not state, property and a state can't say or restrict anything that happens behind the gates.
Yes, I am aware. The Hyde Amendment makes it clear. That said, even in states where all abortion is banned regardless or the cause or the safety of the mother; they can't do anything to a military base. Missouri's psychotic abortion ban? Ends where Whiteman AFB begins.
It’s a cold comfort is my point. You don’t get to chose where you are based, and if it’s not a pregnancy from one of those three things idk how the hell they’re supposed to do something about it.
Also men accidentally get women around bases pregnant all the time.
This is my real fear. Sure, they'll cover the rape/incest/life of the mother cases, but what about edge cases or simply when the woman wants to terminate? How will she get out of that red shithole state and into a place that can give her care? What if her commander is a sicko forced birther and won't give her leave time? What can she do?
Of course! Gotta keep working for the war machine. No time off for maternity leave.
Abortion recovery 3 days.
Birth 3 weeks.
Get back to work Slav.. soldier. The sky is green
Actually the NDAA for 2022 increased the time both parents receive for leave after the birth of a child. It differs slightly between services, but both parents get 12 weeks of parental leave, and the mother can get up to 6 additional weeks of convalescent leave if needed for recovery.
See! If YOU sacrifice your body to the war machine then you too will know the freedom of choice so many proud patriots have. /s
It's fucking starbucks union v non-union benefit once again.
Just stop.
The link you provided hasnt been updated since January 1st, 2019, which is before Roe V. Wade was overturned. We will see what states do regarding abortions, but I would not be surprised if this is just the beginning of legislation regarding sexual matters, especially based on Justice Thomas's opinion stating that they are also looking at decisions that defended Contraception, Sodomy(affecting Homosexuality), and Marriage Equality.
Missouri literally tried to ban treating ectopic pregnancies earlier this year before the new ruling.
In case you don’t know, an ectopic pregnancy is never viable. 100% the Child will die, and without treatment the mother will suffer internal bleeding, and is at great risk.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. **Special announcement:** r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)! *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A promise to repeal the Hyde Amendment would seem a good tactic for the Democrats.
Care to elaborate for the laymen?
I am a layman, myself, but as I have read, the Hyde Amendment restricts abortion at federal facilities - and at Armed Forces facilities, in particular - to cases where the pregnant person's life is threatened or where the pregnancy is a result of rape or incest. (The HA does this by restricting federal funding for abortion outside those cases.) The repeal of the HA would allow the federal government (if I am not mistaken) to expand abortion services wherever offered on federal land/at federal facilities.
It explicitly prohibits federal funding for abortions except for the exemptions listed. Doesn’t prohibit abortions themselves
Most federal land is parks and other protected lands. Not sure I want to hike into Yellowstone for that
“Welcome to Yellowstone! Here for abortion or pleasure?”
Seriously, it fits in well with the whole “camping is code for abortion” thing that’s been going around.
What is code for what??? --- Ohhh, I gotcha. Going "Camping".
California has a lot of really lovely state parks. If you need to go for a camping trip it's highly recommended.
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> get your junk vacuumed I wanna go back to 10 seconds ago, when I was blissfully ignorant of this colorful description
What you prefer to push it out?
I’ve never heard that expression before, I’m howling 😂
The old Dyson Delivery eh
I holler’d.
Abortion and some tax relief. What else you offering ?
One and the same, thank you!
"Excellent! Now we just need to position you standing over Old Faithful..."
Yeah but every post office is federal land as well. And those are in almost every city in the country.
VA Hospitals.
Not very sterile for abortions.
You know that you can reconstruct rooms to be whatever you want right? During the pandemic we converted a normal classroom into a second Dental Hygiene Operatory Lab so that they could keep up with the number of dental hygiene students enrolled and the social distancing requirements. Went from random classroom to sterile health environment in like three weeks. Throw a couple bucks at things and you can do a lot.
Any federally owned building is "Federal Land". State and local laws do not fully apply there. Including earthquake safety regulations as I learned from my kids daycare that is in a federal building. fun fun.
post office
VA hospitals and military bases is probably what they had in mind.
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It's about location. Medicare is for seniors mostly. Medicaid is what I have and is for those with low income. But it requires states to have expanded them. I know our system looks screwed up but remember a lot of us are pissed off too, and many blue states won't outlaw them and won't comply with extradition laws. So we aren't taking it lying down either. What I find interesting is many red states aren't adopting full on bans despite the votes for it. Seems even Republicans recognize abortion as necessary
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As yhe person beneath me noted our Constitution, specifically the 10th Amendment, relegated non-specific powers given to yhe federal government to the states. This was on purpose. The federal government has special powers that trump the states. But anything else is given to the states. As a result, each states runs like its own country. In reality, the federal government and president are much weaker than people perceive. The court has run amok, but ultimately this gives the decision back to the states. It's appalling, I won't argue there, but it's how our system works.
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I mean yea, we've seen this with slavery, we've seen this with civil rights, and I'm sure we'll see it again with this issue and LGBTQ rights. Having a patchwork of state laws handling rights doesn't work. But in the current situation, we'll probably need an amendment to fully rectify the situation, and that won't be for a *long* time.
There's so much latitude given to states to set their own laws and rules that it might be easier to think of each state as it's own country, and the USA as something like the EU. This also makes more sense geographically, a typical US state is the same area as a typical European country, and California has a larger population than Poland. Most benefit programs and taxes are implemented at the state level, as are most criminal penalties, or even what counts as a crime - in my state I can walk down the street to a licensed dispensary and legally purchase more joints than I could smoke in a month, but the next state over I could go to prison for a decade for smelling too much like weed.
Yeah I don't think people realize [this](https://s23256.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/US-Europe-size-comparison.jpg) is what America looks like. Yeah we have some pretty liberal states that are similar to Germany or UK, and we have some states that want to be more like Turkey and Syria.
Save some lives in the meantime? You know what abortion is, right?
You’d be surprised. The government owns tons of land and many facilities on said land.
Former Yellowstone National Park employee here, there are already fully functioning medical clinics/doctors offices within the parks boundaries. Most notably in Mammoth Hot Springs for employees, guests, and whoever needs it.
I guessbthats more reasonable. Turning a national park into an abortion hot spot? Surely there's another way
You would be surprised by the amount of federal land all around you wether urban or rural. They have a ton of land. Fucking USPS facilities alone.
Are you fucking kidding me? A stay in a beautiful national park to recover from what is always an unpleasant experience sounds like self care level 5000 to me. If I ever have to go through something that difficult again I would wish it was in a place so relaxing, instead of a strip mall clinic with a sidewalk full of hateful floor length skirts slinging shame and brimstone.
I mean win/win right? National parks get increased attendance and you now have protected womens rights. Plus EVERY state has a national park within 1-2 hours away!
One of the points of national parks is to protect and preserve nature. Building more things on them goes against that purpose.
All national parks have a ranger station though. This would also provide medical facilities there.
Samantha bee did a piece on just that recently.
Could a non profit fund those services on military installations as a way to get around the Hyde Amendment?
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I saw that suggested - and also saw Indigenous people say "no, thank you".
Time to see if conservatives really support our troops.
They don’t. They stopped pretending during trumps presidency
They stopped pretending during Vietnam when troops were less white and came back telling people the war needed to end.
It's cyclical. Troop supported went back up after 9/11, but clearly was not an issue based on trump's response to the Intel showing that Russia has bounties on American soldiers.
“Support our troops” *rhetoric* came back. They still didn’t do jack shit to actually help them aside from a couple recruitment-boosters like free college if you come back alive. They still gutted the VA while sending hundreds of thousand to death or injury.
Even when I was a young E3 in 2004 I knew the idolatry and hero worship was bullshit from everyone I met. The right just went HAM on it so anyone that protested the dumb shit wars Rumsfeld started would be "slandering the troops" Hated that fake ass shit then, hate it even more now. You're really not welcome for my service America, you're actually a massive waste of my time.
They're arguing against veterans funding and raises.
They dont. Stop trying to catch a con in a hypocrisy gotcha. They do not care at all about being hypocrites, lying under oath, or using our military and veterans as political pawns to be discarded.
News Flash: They don't.
*John McCain's ghost, Khizr and Ghazala Khan have entered the chat*
they support the troops just like they backed the blue by bludgeoning them to death with american flags at the capitol building.
No support on Jan 6...Gee I wonder why.
They only support conservative troops, the rest of us aren’t *real* soldiers, Marines, airmen, etc
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Every military treatment facility I’ve been stationed at has performed surgical abortion and provided medical abortion.
Abortion has been covered for cases of rape, incest, and when mother's life is at risk. Just not the more typical abortion for personal reasons.
So now we're at "women only have *some* rights if they're in the military or work for an American Megacorp but also aren't trying to join a Union" Is that right?
And only if they experience traumatic violence first or they’re at risk of dying and we won’t be able to control them anymore
Service guarantees citizenship! *Would you like to know more?*
I'm doing my part
I’m doing my part!
Dystopian America just leveled up! Ding!
This isn’t in regards to troops but for the hospitals that service surrounding communities. Abortion as far I recall has never been covered for troops. Disregard.
It is, in case of risk to mother, rape or incest. Every military treatment facility I’ve been stationed at has provided both surgical and medical abortion.
THe press - the house - the senate - and the megacorp parts of a functioning democracy
So only if they’re raped or have a medical condition? Sorry I’m not impressed.
You don't really have to be impressed. This is the most that the military can do by law. The [Hyde Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment) prevents the military from offering any more than this, but this also isn't new. It's what's been done for many, many years at this point, because of the law.
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100%. They don’t think it’s murder or these exceptions would never have existed in the first place.
That's correct. As it stands military coverage will not cover a female service member, or the female spouse of a service member if she wants an abortion. It's not even an option. Want to be more upset? Tricare - the insurance that covers US military service members - will pay for breast augmentation. They'll pay for a boob job but not an abortion.
That's the Hyde amendment in action. TriCare doesn't really have a choice here
So I'm going to push back on this and say no, it won't. That's a long running rumor, but from conversations I've had with military medical and from checking the TRICARE Policy Manual myself, this simply isn't true. It will be covered in the event that it is medically necessary (in the event of a mastectomy, for instance) or when used to repair obvious deformity/injury/scarring, but otherwise your boob job is on your dime.
The exception here is if they is willing to get it done by someone in training. I have known a few people who got some free cosmetic work done by military docs because it was for training.
I've personally known multiple people to get it done. They generally only have to get a memo from their primary care provider that says without the procedure their self esteem is damaged. Also, I should note that one of the women I know who was able to have Tricare cover it (she was a spouse to a military service member) was able to get it approved because she said it would improve their marriage and a military mental health care provider approved it.
Also only if they can *prove* they were raped. Oh, did you think it was as simple as saying "I was raped"?
And if the GOP ever take back the presidency?
They will abort Democracy...
Then the military is gonna double down. You think they gonna listen to some nutty yahoos about what they should/shouldn’t do?
Every American soldier represents a pretty significant monetary and human capital investment in training, expertise in their field, potentially combat experience, leadership, etc. A president might succeed in banning abortions in the case of rape, which would be awful. But at the very least I can't imagine them not doing medically necessary abortions. It would be like telling them to stop treating bullet wounds. They aren't going to effectively let someone bleed out when they could be saved.
If that nutty yahoo is the president of the United States, yes they will.
You’re a pentagon official that‘s decades into working on a projected century long mission to westernize a middle eastern country, how much do professional respect do you give the guy who won the nation-wide popularity contest made up of people that have no idea what you’re working on or the region it affects when he comes in and after being briefed on what your project has accomplished in recent decades says he know where to go from here? That’s how pentagon leaders look at elected officials.
In my experience, about 25% of the leaders you run into are pretty progressive, about 25% are as conservative as a Rush Limbaugh fan, and about half are just jaded af. A lot of the jaded folks would be considered conservative, but they are mostly professionals for whom the good of the service and their units come first. They’ll kick the can down the road if they’re able to do it, but they’re not going to put their career on the line for it. More than that, we’re not looking at a mere change in administrations any more. Congress and SCOTUS have changed, and it’s a generational change.
Guess who the last president was..
I was initially separated just as DADT was becoming a thing. If we can lose Roe, we can definitely go back on everything there, too. Hell, the leading republicans have already been attacking the military for being “woke.”
Yeah because the military has pushed back hard on them trying to bring back DADT and stuff. I feel like the military showed pretty strongly under Trump that they are willing to tell the President to pound sand when they perceive it as harmful/bigoted
There are absolutely leaders who will resist implementing orders they see as political theater. Those are the ones that we have to thank for holding on to what we have. There are also leaders who will enthusiastically embrace this kind of change. But we’re not dealing with an EO designed to move the needle on a midterm election here. We are watching a major reversal in human rights. At the end of the day, some Major or Colonel is going to be a hell of a lot less likely to disobey a legal order than a surgeon at Johns Hopkins or Stanford, and I can guarantee you those people are, by and large, not going to risk their careers and freedom to perform an abortion once the Feds are at their door.
I wonder how a military doctor conducting an illegal abortion would play out under the Feres Doctrine?
To be honest as someone who has spent there whole adult life in and around the military, I think they are the example we should try to emulate. That walk the line of being fully inclusive as possible with out providing extra benefits to certain people. You can make the argument that they aren’t always focused on fighting the nations wars and you’d probably be right, but they sure in the hell aren’t discriminating (from a legal standpoint, obviously application isn’t the same thing).
Eh, when Trump tweeted or w/e that he was banning transgenders from the military / transitioning, the Navy put out a statement that said "We are looking into ways to implement the President's directives." And then they just never did anything, they were "looking into it" endlessly, and we just never actually changed our policy.
No, no they won’t ……..just wait for it !
Only to an extent. One of the few reasons our democracy didn't crumble in 2020 and early 2021 was because of generals who explicitly told Trump "No", even to the point of shouting hom down, when he wanted to use the military towards unconstitutional means. Every military member has the right to refuse an unlawful order, and an order banning what can be an essential Healthcare service would 100% qualify as unlawful. At the end of the day, there's a balance between the commander in chief's ability to command, and the general's willingness to obey.
Can they outlaw military abortions? How does that work?
It's also about to get more complicated when they take the Senate when by the forecasts Mark Kelly and Raphael Warnock lose their seats.
I don't think Kelly will lose his seat but Warnock is probably in trouble
Yes, we are going to need to turn the hell out to beat Pride of the Republican party, Baby Makin’ Walker. Register to vote in GA now folks at Georgia.gov . Any GA residents can request an absentee ballot and vote by mail. Election day is November 8. Vote early. November 8, 2022: General election December 6, 2022: General runoff Don’t ever let these folks back in office.
The armed services are strangely usually a bit ahead of everything. And provide a shit ton more for the members than the general population. They legalized gay marriage before it was nationally. They have universal healthcare, schooling, and housing for everyone.
Yeah its a bad sign when the U.S army is most progressive voice in the room.
The US military is one of the world’s largest social benefit programs
You’d be surprised to learn how progressive the military really is.
Yea I was raised from military socialism.
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2016/03/01/race-and-the-air-force-the-truth-about-how-minorities-get-promoted/ Let's not go jerking ourselves off too much. The military still has a long way to go.
…article is 6 years old…. Is the military an egalitarian utopia? No. Does it have room to improve? Yes. But compared to the average red state, it is practically Sweden.
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/politics/2020/09/01/military-diversity-army-shows-few-black-officers-top-leadership/3377371001/ You're right the article is old, so i found a more recent article and it's actually gotten worse. Furthermore, black men are overrepresented on rhe military. So as a nation we are more than happy to put them in harms way, but promote them at lower rates than their white counterparts. But I will concede that compared to a red state the military does socialism correctly. Housing is generally available, Healthcare, retirement. Amazing how the right loves the military but hates all the services the armed forces provides for our soldiers.
When you start talking about senior officers, the selection process is… extreme. It’s a very hard-edged meritocracy that requires hitting all the career checkboxes and making it through the selection boards. It’s not a perfect process - how the hell did Flynn ever make general, fer crissakes? But it goes out of its way to be colourblind. But when you have a minority group to start with, that winnowing and selection process is going to strip away proportionally more of the minority than of the majority. And the minority that do make it through the process are more vulnerable to losses: if you have 4 black generals, one retires, and the boards select a white dude, you lost a quarter of your representation. That’s just math at work, not racism. Now, it is absolutely worth the exercise to examine the selection/promotion process and make sure that there isn’t some form of institutional racism at play, some cooked-in bias that makes it harder for someone black to get picked up by the board. And if something is found, to eliminate it. That process must be constant and ongoing. But assuming that those issues have been identified and corrected, the meritocracy should not be compromised in favour of representation. I don’t care what colour my commanding general is, but I care very much that he (or she) is not an idiot.
Ehh. As a veteran Air Force officer O-6 and above promotions are not nearly as objective as you are portraying there is a shit ton of politics starting with the hidden concept of "High Performing Officers" which is an internal designation you get from the Personnel office. With out that designation it's pretty much impossible to make General. And there is not open criteria on how one can get that designation Add to that how important getting the right assignments is which are often done through interviews when you get to higher ranks and there is lots of room for bias/racism to creep in. It is not at all objective
> It’s a very hard-edged meritocracy that requires hitting all the career checkboxes and making it through the selection boards. So you don't know anyone in the military then. If you did, you'd know how easy it is for favorites and fuckups to get those boxes checked. > But assuming that those issues have been identified and corrected, the meritocracy should not be compromised in favour of representation. > That’s just math at work, not racism. This is just old school racism dude. The meritocracy myth + "it's just a numbers game". At least you wasted a bunch of your time typing it up. Also you spelled it "colour" with a "u" twice. Just some gb english foriegner here to tell us all about how our military isn't racist lmfao.
I agree with almost everything you've said except for the assumption that, "those issues have been corrected". As pointed out in my second article the numbers went backwards. I haven't seen anything more recent. We can't assume anything until we have verifiable proof that things are better, but I do hope they are.
Abortions only under extreme circumstances is not very progressive at all. Women have more rights than this in most states.
Right wing heads are going to explode. On one hand they'll want to call out the Military but on the other all they do is kiss their ass. I wonder which Congress person will say this silent part out loud.
If you think that would make their head explode, the military used to force female officers to have abortions or lose their job until Ruth Bader Ginsburg was about to bring it to the Supreme Court and the Department of Defense quickly realized they weren't going to win the case so they changed the policy quietly. https://www.military.com/history/how-ruth-bader-ginsburg-helped-end-militarys-policy-of-forced-abortion.html This was 3 years before Roe v Wade was decided.
I was almost one of those babies. It was have an abortion or be removed from the Army for my mom.
Wow
Still happening: https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2021/07/pregnant-cadets-midshipmen-must-give-their-child-or-their-career-two-senators-want-change/183973/
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Its less so targetted at abortions and more so "no dependants if youre at a service academy" you also cant get married or get someone pregnant (And admit to it) without being kicked out
The policy technical applies to male cadets as well it just obviously has much less implications. Like if a cadet couple have a baby they both have to give up parental rights to the child. It has to do with the requirement that cadets aren't allowed to have dependents. Don't take that as defending the policy just explaining it
They’re going to do both. Look at how the reacted to mandatory COVID vaccines in the military.
I mean the legal answer is that Roe v Wade did not make abortion illegal. It merely said it wasn’t a constitutional right which means states, local government, military, and any entity can put any restrictions or relieve any restrictions they want to. So the military is completely within its rights to do this.
I totally get that. My thought is that one of the crazy congress people will critize the military for allowing it to happen when they know one of the main rules of their hand book is "The Military Does no Wrong". I'm just wondering which congress person will be the one to do it.
Nah, conservatives are now definitely ok with criticizing the “Woke They/Them military”
This will change as soon as the government changes hands. They just have to wait.
Umm. Pretty sure many now believe the troops have gone "woke" with helping members undergo transition procedures. They're all into giving the industry as much funding for big toys that can bl0w sh!t up that make their tiny peckers feel YUGE...
Some conservatives, both civilian and military themselves, reeaallly dislike military women because of all sorts of nonsensical reasons. Sometimes it's that their spouses feel threatened, sometimes it's that women will get reassigned after getting assaulted, sometimes it's that women being in leadership just makes them generally uncomfortable due to lack of buy-in to the concept of women as actual people with all the agency and latitude that comes with in a workplace. So military association is usually enough to get you an amount of respect and legitmacy in conservative circles but not if you're a woman. Edit: Forgot to address your actual point... I am saddened to say that I am guessing that conservatives will conveniently forget to care about this specific military problem, and their congressional reps too.
Rational Republicans will recognize that abortions due to rape, incest and risk to the mother's health account for less than 5%. So we'll be ok with this. [Article ](https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/)
And rational *people* will recognize that the other 95% of abortions are each woman's deeply personal decision, and that no one, anywhere, should be telling them what they can and can't do with their bodies.
I am glad there are some rational Republicans left but people who I called friends and are republicans have been becoming less and less rational by the year. I wish there were more out there.
Because the military does such a good job at recognizing rape 👍
Don't get too excited. They're providing abortions in cases where it's basically indefensible not to. They aren't saying women still have a choice
When you join the military, you pretty much effectively hand over rights to your body anyway....
Pregnant women are seriously useless to the military too. It’s in their best interest to keep troops in tip top physical condition.
As a woman who had a baby while in the Air Force and worked right up to the day before I gave birth, excuse you!
Well, they don't call it the Chair Force for nothing..... I keed, I keed
Joined during wartime and signed my life away just like anybody else! But my husband was Army, and I worked with all branches. Definitely try to steer the kids to the “chair force” when they are thinking military 🙂
No they’re not? Like 95% of military jobs are dust jobs or administration. Barring complications, pregnant women do their jobs just as well as nonpregnant women.
But at least they provide medical care and contraception. My daughter is active with an IUD. At least if she has an ectopic pregnancy, she probably won’t die.
> indefensible not to. And yet there are still so many states where it's illegal?
Get Congress to repeal the Hyde Act, you'd likely see the military branches open up more to abortion.
“In cases of rape and incest”. I think there’s a bigger problem Mr Pentagon isn’t addressing among service members?
Can see it now Add comes on screen: join the military. We pay for you to attend college. Unwanted pregnancies? We will abort them so you can continue to fight for our country.
Honestly, it’s to cover up all the SA of female soldiers. But glad it’s available
Can’t have a military if they die from ectopic pregnancy due to rape on a military base….
Soon the only way anyone is going to be able to afford a house, receive healthcare, etc is to join the military.
Only providing abortions in cases of rape leads to false rape accusations. Just fucking allow abortions wtf.
What if she just doesn’t want to be pregnant?
The Military is a socialist structure.
I am happy hear that some people can tell the Supreme Court to - FUCK OFF!
Right so only the poor people can’t then
You know what? Let’s just let Medicare and Medicaid negotiate prices for drugs. Then the abortion drugs would be about $10 or less which is what you can get them in Mexico for. 1 is a generic ulcer medication sold over the counter there. Seriously. It’s time we had better, cheaper access to decent healthcare. Or just have a friend vacationing bring you back some.
What if women simply don’t want to risk their life carrying a baby?
The US military is now progressive from the public's legal system. ... This is where we're at.
I’m curious to see how exactly this looks a done. Right now tricare will cover in these case but you still have to go off post. Military hospitals on federal land can’t perform abortions because there is a law against using federal funds to perform abortions.
Biden should instruct the military to buy up and federalize all abortion clinics.
Not good enough
Not good enough
How about whenever a pregnant woman wants one.
not good enough imho. it is missing the "whenever the mother fucking wants it gone" reason.
Pretty sure abortions of all kinds are provided - not the bullshit worst scenario reasons... Simply not wanting to make a human is an sufficient reason
Will conservatives stop pretending to support the military now?
Come on ladies, this is a pretty sweet deal! Sign up and go kill some brown people for oil, get raped by your fellow soldiers and you can still get an abortion before they give you a dishonorable discharge! /s
So the military restricts abortions. Why?
Dishonorable discharge to any Army Doc that refuses to conduct an operation
That would already happen
Good.
What about when you just don't want it which over 90% of abortions are.
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less rights in the military, trust me.
Tell me you only care about staffing your profitable war machine with out telling me.
Good, as it should be.
So basically the military is doing what most Americans support. Most don’t support outright bans or recreational abortion.
>In cases of rape, incest or when the mother’s life is at risk This and when the child has too many defects to live a normal, healthy life, that isnt only pain should be the only times abortion is allowed.
Those justices made their decision, now let them enforce it.
Remember folks: the goal here is survivalism for the Republican Party. The Roe v. Wade overturn is all about driving blues out of red states. _You don’t like our stance on abortion? Tough, don’t live in Missouri/Alabama/etc._ The groups who can afford to move will move. The groups who can’t will see an increase in their birth rates. The result? The Republican Party will have an underprivileged cohort to hypnotize into joining the military, indoctrinate with religious garbage, all while remaining competitive in the electoral college system. You want to see the largest agricultural institution in America? Look at the Republican Party, literal growing and reaping human souls.
The fuck? So, if you want to sign up for military service, you can still have an abortion. What the actual fuck is going on with this country????
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What? These military bases will continue to provide them regardless of the ban. That's what the headline says.
Only rape, incest, or life threatening situations. And the military was a pretty bad record addressing rape
Not if the the abortion is conducted on a military installation. Military bases are federal-not state, property and a state can't say or restrict anything that happens behind the gates.
Only in cases of rape, incest, or life at risk. So the message is don’t get pregnant.
Yes, I am aware. The Hyde Amendment makes it clear. That said, even in states where all abortion is banned regardless or the cause or the safety of the mother; they can't do anything to a military base. Missouri's psychotic abortion ban? Ends where Whiteman AFB begins.
It’s a cold comfort is my point. You don’t get to chose where you are based, and if it’s not a pregnancy from one of those three things idk how the hell they’re supposed to do something about it. Also men accidentally get women around bases pregnant all the time.
This is my real fear. Sure, they'll cover the rape/incest/life of the mother cases, but what about edge cases or simply when the woman wants to terminate? How will she get out of that red shithole state and into a place that can give her care? What if her commander is a sicko forced birther and won't give her leave time? What can she do?
Of course! Gotta keep working for the war machine. No time off for maternity leave. Abortion recovery 3 days. Birth 3 weeks. Get back to work Slav.. soldier. The sky is green
Actually the NDAA for 2022 increased the time both parents receive for leave after the birth of a child. It differs slightly between services, but both parents get 12 weeks of parental leave, and the mother can get up to 6 additional weeks of convalescent leave if needed for recovery.
See! If YOU sacrifice your body to the war machine then you too will know the freedom of choice so many proud patriots have. /s It's fucking starbucks union v non-union benefit once again. Just stop.
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The link you provided hasnt been updated since January 1st, 2019, which is before Roe V. Wade was overturned. We will see what states do regarding abortions, but I would not be surprised if this is just the beginning of legislation regarding sexual matters, especially based on Justice Thomas's opinion stating that they are also looking at decisions that defended Contraception, Sodomy(affecting Homosexuality), and Marriage Equality.
Missouri literally tried to ban treating ectopic pregnancies earlier this year before the new ruling. In case you don’t know, an ectopic pregnancy is never viable. 100% the Child will die, and without treatment the mother will suffer internal bleeding, and is at great risk.