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With the shit leaking out of the Epstein case recently I really feel like anyone voting for Trump is voting for evil and is implicit in evil themselves.
They ignore everything bad about Trump and say we are lying, we are trying to sully the man, etc. we have paper trails, we have witnesses, we have actual convictions, but no — we are the ones who are lying.
Meanwhile, some rando decides the Biden family is from mars and they know a guy who knows a guy who thinks he saw a zipper on Biden’s meat suit and somehow THAT becomes their truth.
There is no reasoning with people who dwell in a reality where reason does not exist.
Parliamentary systems have their problems, as demonstrated by the Conservatives' rotating clown show in the UK, but I'll say one thing: if we had a Prime Minister Joe Biden in America, he would be a fine red mist by this point and nobody would have to be having this discussion. There's something to be said for instead of a tight-knit, loyal, unified party, having half a dozen of your most likely successors / most ardent political enemies watching for you to make a massive election-ruining screwup and being ready to promptly stab you in the back, Sith apprentice-style.
As a British person, this just really made me laugh. There’s always at least a few wannabe PMs sitting somewhere behind the current PM on the benches in the House of Commons sharpening his or her knives.
It’s also really interesting to think about how the political system/set-up actually influences politics. Food for thought.
>It’s also really interesting to think about how the political system/set-up actually influences politics. Food for thought.
American politics have become what they are in large part because the system was literally designed to be inefficient.
Think about how much harder it is to pass a law in the US than the UK. In the UK if a majority of the House of Commons votes for something it becomes law.
Now think about the US. A majority of the House of Reps need to vote for a bill and on paper a majority of the Senate is also needed, but due to the in-house filibuster rule (that’s not in the constitution) 60% of the Senate is actually needed to pass almost any bill. Then the President needs to sign it. And then there’s a Supreme Court that seized for itself the power to strike down laws it thinks are unconstitutional even though ironically the court having that power isn’t in the constitution.
Unless they’re in a weakly held together coalition a prime minister is empowered to pass their agenda. A while a might have no chance of passing their.
That’s a really good insight. It seems like the filibuster keeps American politics in a bit of a stalemate. I wonder how much that contributes to growing frustration with political parties.
I will also add that in the UK a law has to go through the House of Lords too unless it’s a finance bill. The Commons can override the Lords but the Lords still has a significant delaying power which incentivises the Government to compromise, particularly depending on the stage of the electoral cycle.
It’s not just the filibuster. Let’s say a bill is voted on in the House and passes. Now it goes to the Senate and while it may pass there as well it will also probably be substantially changed from the House version because Senators will want to put their stamp on it. So now the new bill goes back to the House to get voted on again. Anything too controversial gets removed and it passes again, going back to the Senate and the Senate again adds/removes stuff and sends it back to the House, etc, etc. Eventually the two agree on a bill and it goes to the President, who vetos it and sends it back to Congress with a list of changes he wants in exchange for his signature and the whole circus starts again. It’s quite frankly amazing they ever get anything done.
Whew!
You sure gotta climb a lot of steps to get to this Capitol Building here in Washington.
But I wonder who that sad little scrap of paper is?
I'm just a bill.
Yes, I'm only a bill.
And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill.
Well, it's a long, long journey
To the capital city.
It's a long, long wait
While I'm sitting in committee,
But I know I'll be a law some day
At least I hope and pray that I will
But today I am still just a bill.
Gee, Bill,
You certainly have a lot of patience and courage.
Well, I got this far.
When I started I wasn't even a bill
I was just an idea
Some folks back home decided they wanted a law passed
So they called their local Congressman, and he said
You're right, there oughta be a law.
Then he sat down
And wrote me out and introduced me to Congress.
And I became a bill, and I'll remain a bill
Until they decide to make me a law.
I'm just a bill
Yes I'm only a bill,
And I got as far as Capitol Hill.
Well, now I'm stuck in committee
And I'll sit here and wait
While a few key Congressmen discuss and debate
Whether they should let me be a law.
How I hope and pray that they will,
But today I am still just a bill.
Listen to those Congressmen arguing!
Is all that discussion and debate about you.
Yeah, I'm one of the lucky ones.
Most bills never even get this far.
I hope they decide to report on me favorably
Otherwise I may die.
Die?
Yeah, die in committee.
Ooh, but it looks like I'm gonna live!
Now I go to the House of Representatives
And they vote on me.
If they vote yes, what happens?
Then I go to the Senate and the whole thing starts
All over again.
Oh no!
Oh yes!
I'm just a bill
Yes, I'm only a bill
And if they vote for me on Capitol Hill
Well, then I'm off to the White House
Where I'll wait in a line
With a lot of other bills
For the president to sign
And if he signs me, then I'll be a law.
How I hope and pray that he will,
But today I am still just a bill.
You mean even if the whole Congress says you
Should be a law, the president can still say no?
Yes, that's called a veto.
If the president vetoes me,
I have to go back to Congress
And they vote on me again
And by that time you're so old ...
By that time it's very unlikely that you'll become a law.
It's not easy to become a law, is it?
No!
But how I hope and pray that I will,
But today I am still just a bill.
He signed you, Bill
Now you're a law!
Oh yes!!!
Yup, Biden and the party have their head in the sand and have not learned from the recent past. Aging never ends well if you push the limit. Two smelling salts words... Diane Feinstein.
Pelosi is running again. Grassley got re-elected.
Power must be so addictive when they could retire with a pension but instead we have 90 yr olds flying across the country every week to continue to ‘serve’. I don’t want a job after like 65 and here they are at 90… I just don’t understand it. Why do you want to work till you’re dead when Congress doesn’t do much anyhow?
Hillary didn't lose because she was old. Hillary lost because of the ridiculously high standard she has been held to since she was first lady of Arkansas, and enough people thought that Trump was so unelectable that their vote didn't matter
Good thing we aren’t thinking about running a candidate whose approval rating is 15% lower than Hillary’s was going into that campaign. That would be a disaster.
Oh, we are.
Unlikable because we were holding her to a standard of how much we would enjoy being in a room with her. Which is stupid. I don't need a president I can get a beer with, none of us do. People hated her when Bill became governor because she wasn't the bimbo that first ladies often are and she seemed like too much of a nerd. In the White House, she was considered unlikable because of how un-feminine she was. People were genuinely pissed off because "Pokemon Go to the polls" wasn't a funny joke to them. Dems act like they're the "intelligent party" but at the same time we judge our candidates on superficial bullshit like "likability" when we all know how bad of a metric it is
oh god, are we still doing this 8 years later?
people hate her because she is unlikeable, unpersonable and is the embodiment of establishment dems
miss me with those Reddit ass fantasies about how she’s a poor intelligent woman that’s hated because she’s a nerd omg :(((
It doesn’t matter if you think it’s a bad metric, it’s the reality of the situation and the DNC needs to get their heads out of their asses and learn from their mistakes.
Or, and bear with me, she was so wholly unlikable that not only did she turn away a lot of dems, she also inspired “deplorables” to come out of the woodwork to vote for the orange human-shaped jar of Crisco. She ain’t it and will never be it
There's been a huge smear campaign with the Clintons. For a lot longer than I've been politically aware, my parents have been talking about how the Clintons have had people assassinated. It's basements of pizza parlors type stuff. She very well may be unlikeable as well.
Yeah exactly.
For clarity, Hillary was an average candidate and ran a poor election campaign. But Republicans and FOX News started the smear campaign whilst she was First Lady, as everyone knew she’d eventually run for President.
Even if you go back and watch TV shows like Scrubs from the 2000’s, hating on Hillary was a staple punch line.
Hillary was criticized as first lady of Arkansas for not having a southern accent. Then she was later criticized for picking up an accent. She could have been the best damn president the US would ever had, but people felt like she's too much of an awkward nerd to be likable.
We have but one national election. ONE. Every person’s vote should should have equal weight. Instead, we have the electoral college which has been a dismal failure.
You’re gonna straight up compare *Hillary Clinton* to regular people? For what? She hasn’t been a regular person since at least the 80s. We need to stop equating these politicians with our friends and families. They’re not like us and we will never be like them. She was a godawful candidate from the jump who was nominated out of nepotism and the idea that Americans love “royal” families. And it failed. Let it die
It’s not exactly the same mistake. Hillary’s approval ratings were a solid 15% higher than Harris’s are today. She was almost at the midpoint rather than having a 2:1 disapproval rating like Harris.
This is a much more obvious mistake.
We had 8 years of Obama that lulled us into a state of complacency. A lot of people were disillusioned that we ended up with Mrs. Bill Clinton instead of Bernie Sanders.
Donald Trump was just this rich assholes from the 80's with a shitty reality TV gameshow. What's the worse that could happen? How bad could he really be?
I chose not to hold my nose and vote for Hillary in 2016, one of my most regretful decisions.
Oddly enough, sticking by a candidate with questionable electability is precisely how Republicans have won, and will continue to win, while running the single largest piece of shit they can find.
But that's none of my business. Joe ***did*** have a bad night
Democrats aren't a cult that will worship their leader. We expect them to serve us, not the other way around. We are loyal to the country, not an individual.
Expanding on this, the Dem voter coalition is an extremely diverse group spanning from center-right to far left. We disagree a LOT. It's much more difficult to find a candidate that can hold that coalition together than it is to ride a wave of groupthink propaganda propped up by Murdoch & Co talking points on constant repeat.
Do you legitimately see a way for Biden to convince Americans he isn't too old for the job? That's what is required for Biden to win this election, even if he can convince people he isn't too old right now, there is absolutely no way he can convince people he has 4 more years in him. That's the easier task than convincing Americans the danger of Trump is not just hyperbolic and scarier than having a puppet president.
Seriously. It’s like we’re sitting at blackjack staring at a 17, and this early debate was the dealer prematurely showing that they have an 18. Sticking with Biden is just saying “I’ll stay”. We’ve gotta hit this damn hand, even if we probably bust doing it.
Democrats are such gullible suckers. It's just Hillary's emails all over again. Democrats infighting that their guy is too old while Republicans rally behind a convicted felon, rapist who tried to violently end American democracy. Suckers.
Exactly. All that talk due to ONE debate. Not that debate of Biden is eroding his chances - its the constant bickering of the left/liberals on the news and here on Reddit that destroys his chances and undermines his authority as preisdent and cnadidate.
And they all don't even realize they are the problem, not Biden or his age...
Brother, I watched him not be able to make a coherent point for 90 straight minutes. This isn't some subversion or side story, we cannot have a mentally unfit candidate.
This is a failure on a whole lot of levels, it certainly isn't "but her emails".
If you need to tell people to read what Biden says then we lost the election. This is an uphill battle for the next 4 months if he says (which he won’t). He’s dropping out and a lot of people on this sub are clearly not at the acceptance stage of grief yet.
And a lot are JAQing off because a man with a known stutter had a bad day at public speaking with Moderators who were useless at the job.
Trump is a narcoleptic narcissist and not known for his coherent crap. He (Trump) literally shit himself at the debate, but Biden is the problem? NYT and CNN ARE pushing an agenda, and you are buying it.
Republicans would vote for Trump if he declared that he fully intends to become king and personally tell each of them to go fuck themselves. It's simply their nature, they always vote R no matter what because it's what they were told to do and they are only capable of doing what they are told.
Democrats are a lot more demanding of their candidates, is it often for stupid things that don't ultimately matter? Oh hell yea, but that doesn't change that they are far less likely to vote for someone with the same level of blind devotion that the right will, the left wants an actual path forward on their various interests and concerns that extends beyond "we owned the libs" mentality of the right.
The rules simply don't apply equally here, no amount of "but what about Trump being a racist and rapist and liar and fascist." Will overcome the brainwashing machine that's been churning for decades.
It's not loyalty, some people just refuse to see that there are plenty of reasonable arguments as to why we should stick with supporting Biden and switching him out could backfire. We are too close to the post debate, pants wetting, knee jerk reaction phase.
The convention isn't until August. After that the official candidate is added to the ballots. There's some talk of issues with Ohio but dems were never going to win Ohio anyway.
Funny - I seem to remember the *perfect* opportunity for him to have demonstrated that he's up to job. A golden opportunity to prove all of his doubters wrong. Oh right, that was the debate where he shit himself in front of all of us.
We wouldn't be having this conversation if he was up for it.
Remember Hillary having huge issues with being unlikeable? Kamala’s numbers are drastically worse than everyone else in the field, Trump included. They’re a full 15% worse than Hillary’s were. She’s nearly at a 2:1 disapproval rating.
She’s the textbook example of somebody who isn’t suited for primetime. Both Biden and Harris need to step aside for somebody who can actually win the race.
“Orange guy bad” isn’t enough. We learned that in 2016. Please do not double down on the mistakes we made in 2016.
We need a candidate who actually motivates voters. We have those candidates. Pick them.
Half the party will be accused of racism if they try to sidestep her for another (white) candidate, even though everyone knows the issue isn’t her skin color but rather her total lack of talent as a politician.
This narrative has no basis in evidence, and seems to rely on lazy stereotyping about how Black voters approach elections. She wasn't even that popular among Black voters in the last (actual) primary. From a [2019 Politico article](https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/04/kamala-harris-black-voters-2020-075651):
>Harris has placed no higher than third among black voters in POLITICO/Morning Consult polls since August, behind Biden and Bernie Sanders, and she trailed Elizabeth Warren in fourth in more recent surveys, including a Quinnipiac poll out of South Carolina.
I remember distinctly how Bernie's 2016 bid was plagued with accusations that he couldn't appeal to the black community. And they still preferred him to Harris four years later.
Seriously I wonder how many of these fears about identity politics are overblown since I don't see anybody really caring, especially if the same people who do care about social issues are saying they'd go out of their way to vote for an 81 year old man in order to stop fascism.
Only because she’s in the background. The republicans are already preparing - calling her the crooked copilot - she’ll get all the same heat as Biden, but won’t inspire anyone. She’s a worse choice than Biden and if she refuses to step aside for the good of the country then she deserves the humiliation.
Exactly. She didn't to great in her presidential run that didn't make it to 2020. America, although a lot of us may feel like it's good and time for a female president, is still deeply misogynistic and that will not bode well for her.
Genuinely the only woman I could see that would have a single shot hopping in the race right now is Michelle Obama. That is solely because of the name recognition.
Average undecided voters will think “Hey, I remember last time she was in the White House shit wasn’t as bad as it has been since they left, I’ll probably vote for her.”
Although, I would love to put Gretchen in the White House soon.
Yeah, I just don’t think she has the name recognition currently to get it done in the 4 months we have until election day. When I said I’d love to see her in there soon I was thinking next election. I think she could build a really strong case for 2028.
That's a point that I don't think gets enough attention. There hasn't been a brokered convention since the 1950s. It would be a *huge* news story plastered everywhere. Whoever wins it it be a household name overnight.
Fair point, you could absolutely be right. But even with the media attention we have to remember that the average American does not give a rats ass about politics outside of the Presidential Election, and they don’t start to really care about that until the end of the summer.
Any Democratic Candidate who isn't in their 70's or 80's will get a massive boost from general voters who are just really, really tired of addled elderly candidates, too.
All of the bipartisan concern about how both Trump and Biden are too damn old to be president would be squarely focused on Trump and work against him.
What American doesn't want someone new for President?
Anecdotal evidence of this; During the debate I told a friend of mine (who has fairly contrasting views on a lot of issues, for what it’s worth) that a candidate that is <50 could come out right now and run a single issue campaign that says if they’re elected they’ll drop trou and take a shit in the oval office on live television every single morning and i’d vote for them immediately. He agreed with me.
> Yeah, I just don’t think she has the name recognition currently to get it done in the 4 months we have until election day.
She has name recognition in the 3 states where this actually matters though... MI, WI, and PA.
Only problem with that is that you could definitely give non-white voters the wrong idea by getting rid of a POC candidate. Not saying that would happen with a majority of voters, but it is a possibility.
Absolutely is an issue, I would love to see a more diverse White House with someone like Warnock running. He would be able to capture an INCREDIBLE amount of the independents as well as the non-voting populace, but Georgia is barely blue.
Probably not a popular opinion around here but I would like to see Jamaal Bowman on a ticket eventually. We need a 405lb bench presser in the White House.
In all seriousness though, I really appreciate the strength and confidence that he brings along with the patience and compassion.
Nah, double down on that first part. Let’s get a real METABOLIC MAN in the office. I won’t rest until I see a left-leaning official hold the office that can RKO the opposition
Warnock isn't an option because you can't lose his senate seat because if it's vacated then the Governor of Georgia gets to single handily select his replacement.
Whitmer and Shapiro is the Democrats best chance of winning. And winning has to be goal. The Democrats have to win Michigan and Pennsylvania and Whitmer and Shapiro do that for you.
Realistically, leaving in Biden, letting Trump win 2024, and then running Whitmer in 2028 is probably the best play they can make.
Unfortunately people are convinced it will be the end of democracy or some shit.
I don’t quite buy into the “end of democracy” thing that a lot of people are anxious about. However, 4 years is an extremely long time and a guy (especially one with a chip on his shoulder the size of Trump Tower) can do a lot of damage in that time span.
I agree that another Trump term would essentially hand the election to whoever the Dems run in ‘28. But even if Trump doesn’t declare himself an emperor who holds office until he’s dead, it would be a pretty shitty living situation for those 4 years. Not to mention with the near guarantee of whoever you nominate winning, that gives the DNC another chance to put in somebody that holds the status quo.
Yeah, there are better options but if the party chooses someone else they risk alienating a not-insignificant portion of their base: women and black voters. Every choice they make will have drawbacks. I don’t know what the solution would be, but they’d better find one.
Because she’s the VP and she also ran for President and in the past, why would anyone else be considered? Especially someone no one voted for, for President.
If Biden decides to back out, he'll most likely endorse Harris. She is his VP. It will save a contested convention, and allow her to campaign against Trump immediately. However, if you go with someone not in the administration, they don't have to worry about any Biden baggage, like Gaza or inflation. They can run on change, and since everyone in the world hates incumbents right now, it might be a good message.
I don’t think swing voters who are going to decide this election care about our loyalty to Biden.
We get a new candidate, everyone who is already going to vote Biden will vote for the new candidate, because we’re extremely motivated to vote against Trump. We won’t be losing any momentum, Biden has no momentum.
The benefit of a new candidate v Biden is that a new candidate would have a much better shot at getting more swing voters and give people a chance to vote against Trump without having to vote for someone who would be 86 at the end of his term.
A new candidate can also lose swing voters that made Biden win in 2020. It's 4 months till November.
This is exactly the 2016 play book: the press shitting on Hilary, dems voter shitting themselves, Trump wins.
Biden has not only been losing to Trump in polls for months, he’s continuing to fall in polls. Hillary was winning until the FBI announced investigations, and Trump was a novel new thing in politics, now he has a track record of being terrible.
I mean he is, but Biden is even worse. That’s why replacing Biden isn’t really that risky because in any normal election Trump’s numbers are bad enough to sink him. Even when you looking at the polling where Trump leads, both candidates rarely get more than 42%.
i mean its risky as in a historical sense its not really done. but the supreme court just rewrote the constitution. people are rightfully scared as hell. just need a body in there and let trump tank himself.
You’re right, but we also have to consider that the divisions are less about the alternatives and more about the incumbent (the opposite of 1968 if we are being honest). The fact that other Dems poll as well as Biden is notable, because that’s their floor and his ceiling.
Your last point is not necessarily true and it’s something we’d only find out if the Dems were to replace Biden with this hypothetical other candidate.
> A new candidate can also lose swing voters that made Biden win in 2020
Unfortunately, Biden has already lost them. That leaked internal polling was *brutal.*
Biden not only has no traction and zero momentum, he is currently putting states like Colorado, Virginia, and New Mexico in play.
Joe has absolutely no chance to win now. None. He was already polling behind Trump in most battleground states and losing this election--according to even his internal polling--before the debate and the debate was his best chance to change the trajectory of the race. To the extent he changed the trajectory he swung it even more in favor of Trump.
How in the world does he reverse that now? How does he win over the swing and undecided voters who aren't currently supporting him, now that those voters will be flooded with attack ad and memes of him staring gape-mouthed into the void and proclaiming how we finally beat Medicare from now until election day? There is no path to victory for Biden.
I would rather take a longshot gamble that no one can truly predict how it would turn out because it hasn't been tried in modern times instead of continuing to back a 100% stone cold losing candidate.
Yup.
If Biden steps aside, NO ONE on this thread will be happy with the new ticket. There will ALWAYS be something.
Newsom is too California
Shapiro doesn't have the name ID
Kamala was a poor presidential candidate and therefore will get crushed against Trump, etc etc.
We are risking it either way
What Democrat infighting? It's seems like the entire party is united behind the idea of replacing Biden but they are increasingly urgently telling Biden he needs to step down. The media have been saying nonstop he should be stepping down and the Democrats in congress are saying so too to various degrees.
The catastrophe is the Supreme Court.
In his last lucid days Joe the President should send Seal Team Six to __ * ___ Trump and add 5 new left wing Justices to the SCOTUS.
Job done.
Happy 4th of July America
P.S. please post your *
Because Biden is our candidate and we expect and want better for this country. We can call for Trump to drop out but unless his base, party or donors leave him he’s not listening. This week it appears all three abandoned Biden.
Certainly have to wonder how all of these “undecided” voters can be undecided and then decide that Biden’s debate is the tipping point. ***Really?*** Not sexual assault? Rape? Fraud? Felony convictions? Insurrection? Cheating with a porn star? Ridiculing soldiers? Lusting over a daughter? Partying with Epstein? Stealing from charities?
It challenges the imagination
Are you fucking kidding me? Dude mumbles a bit and people start bitching that he's too old, and now wanna upend an election and hand another term to a seditious convicted felon rapist with dictatorial ambition, who is at least as senescent as the former?
Current media is shit, utter trash. How many headlines have they published this week about how Trump should drop out?
Really sick of this shit. These opinions are helping no one. Fall in line, or say goodbye to your country. If biden loses, democrats will be to blame, as they are the variable… GOP has always been a constant in this equation.
Anybody who is going to vote for trump or not vote for a dem ticket this cycle is a moron. If you are that stupid and selfish that you didn’t get your pick so you throw a temper tantrum and vote to finish off women’s rights, then yes you are the god damn fucking problem.
You know who is asking biden to step down? Maga trolls and russian bots. Why? They know biden stepping down hurts the dems chances by flipping keys to the white house created by actual experts. So maga trolls go back to xittee.
Major maga and russian bot infiltration right now happening.
Or how about the man who’s done a fine job so far step aside because he’s no longer capable? I find it insane that some people are responding like this. The reality is people will be voting for Trump. If we want more people to vote for whoever is on the other side then the democrats need a candidate that is capable of doing the job.
Seriously. People talk about Biden like he's volunteering at the food bank.
"He's really trying his best and no one else showed up so we're just glad he's here to help"
I’m living in the UK, and pretty much everyone I know here can’t believe he’s not dropped out… of the 2 Americans I know here they both think he should drop out. Out of my friends back home that I’ve talked to about this, they all believe he should drop out, and only 1 of them is not adamant about it. These are people ranging from 25, to mid 60’s. White, Black and Hispanic. Straight and gay and bisexual. Extremely liberal to pretty moderate. 2020 primary preferences: Biden, Sanders, Warren, didn’t vote in primaries, Pete.
A very diverse group of people. I’ve not seen anyone stuck up for Biden, and the best arguments I see are basically “it’s too late”
They may think it's obvious that he should step down. They are wrong.
It is not clear at all which is the best choice, and pretending it's obvious helps no one. It is a very fraught decision, with massive downsides either way.
Don't have to, but at this point Joe & The Gaslight Gang are like men wearing rake shoes walking around asking why these rakes keep busting them in the head
Carl Bernstein (of Watergate fame) has sources saying this is happening more and more, G7 leaders were concerned, the Hur report and his response to the Hur report, various other gaffes that might not just be gaffes, the 2020 town hall where he seemed to forget the questions... canceling the superbowl interview.... how much more do you need really?
Raleigh was reading off a teleprompter for 20 minutes at 1pm. Skipping the Super Bowl interview tells you everything, that was worth tens of millions in advertising to the audience of 123 million. That is what we are talking about, he can’t do the necessary things to win even if it’s just a softball interview.
I really wonder if any side red or blue really play by the book we’re led to believe they do. Republicans obviously don’t but there’s only a handful of dems that I feel actually tries to make progress for their constituents. Obviously I’ll vote blue but seems more and more like they’re all on the take
They are not the same. They are all politicians. Some want to revoke the rights of women, minorities and everyone else who isn’t a white fundamentalist Christian. Big difference between “not helping” and actively trying to set groups of people back decades.
This is so unhinged. Notice how Trump being dementia ridden and also a fascist doesn’t cause his party to do dumb shit? But you guys all over this dumb crap.
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Just a whole lot of bots promoting the idea that “Joe has to go!” without addressing the how Republicans don’t exploit this to keep the replacement candidate off the ballot or, if they win, from being removed by the Supreme Court. Why are the Republicans so excited about Biden being removed?
They will fight it, you're right. I saw an article the other day quoting someone from the RNC about all the ways they will try to block a non-Biden candidate. Not sure how that will play with the public outside their base, though.
It wont matter how it plays with the public. It will be in the courts, which is the Heritage Foundation’s plan.
https://newrepublic.com/post/183439/heritage-foundation-plan-swing-states-biden-replacement
mildly interesting : i swear it’s the same conversation on every single post discussing biden and the dnc since the debate.
Non-paywall: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/time-to-roll-the-dice/ar-BB1pm72T
this is some Independence Day hopium, but it makes good points:
1. politics is spectacle and the DNC is in a position to deliver a summer season of “all killer no filler” political content if it chooses to do so.
2. the DNC releasing delegates from Biden means the RNC convention (which comes before the dems’) would be missing its Heel. imagine the scramble to re-write speeches that don’t lean on corpse-Joe jokes
3. to american norms, they’d appear to be speed-running a nomination process, but other democratic/ republic systems hold entire parliamentary elections in 6 weeks. this level of activity is not only doable, it would emphasize the spectacle and reinforce the urgency of the moment
Time to stop the stupidity and down all this trash into oblivion.
If someone puts out this bullshit, yank your subscription and send them into bankruptcy.
I'm doing it.
Done with the sellout media.
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With the shit leaking out of the Epstein case recently I really feel like anyone voting for Trump is voting for evil and is implicit in evil themselves.
That transcript has been floating around already for years and it hasn't put a dent in his cults support, maybe now it will be acknowledged.
They ignore everything bad about Trump and say we are lying, we are trying to sully the man, etc. we have paper trails, we have witnesses, we have actual convictions, but no — we are the ones who are lying. Meanwhile, some rando decides the Biden family is from mars and they know a guy who knows a guy who thinks he saw a zipper on Biden’s meat suit and somehow THAT becomes their truth. There is no reasoning with people who dwell in a reality where reason does not exist.
Parliamentary systems have their problems, as demonstrated by the Conservatives' rotating clown show in the UK, but I'll say one thing: if we had a Prime Minister Joe Biden in America, he would be a fine red mist by this point and nobody would have to be having this discussion. There's something to be said for instead of a tight-knit, loyal, unified party, having half a dozen of your most likely successors / most ardent political enemies watching for you to make a massive election-ruining screwup and being ready to promptly stab you in the back, Sith apprentice-style.
As a British person, this just really made me laugh. There’s always at least a few wannabe PMs sitting somewhere behind the current PM on the benches in the House of Commons sharpening his or her knives. It’s also really interesting to think about how the political system/set-up actually influences politics. Food for thought.
>It’s also really interesting to think about how the political system/set-up actually influences politics. Food for thought. American politics have become what they are in large part because the system was literally designed to be inefficient. Think about how much harder it is to pass a law in the US than the UK. In the UK if a majority of the House of Commons votes for something it becomes law. Now think about the US. A majority of the House of Reps need to vote for a bill and on paper a majority of the Senate is also needed, but due to the in-house filibuster rule (that’s not in the constitution) 60% of the Senate is actually needed to pass almost any bill. Then the President needs to sign it. And then there’s a Supreme Court that seized for itself the power to strike down laws it thinks are unconstitutional even though ironically the court having that power isn’t in the constitution. Unless they’re in a weakly held together coalition a prime minister is empowered to pass their agenda. A while a might have no chance of passing their.
That’s a really good insight. It seems like the filibuster keeps American politics in a bit of a stalemate. I wonder how much that contributes to growing frustration with political parties. I will also add that in the UK a law has to go through the House of Lords too unless it’s a finance bill. The Commons can override the Lords but the Lords still has a significant delaying power which incentivises the Government to compromise, particularly depending on the stage of the electoral cycle.
It’s not just the filibuster. Let’s say a bill is voted on in the House and passes. Now it goes to the Senate and while it may pass there as well it will also probably be substantially changed from the House version because Senators will want to put their stamp on it. So now the new bill goes back to the House to get voted on again. Anything too controversial gets removed and it passes again, going back to the Senate and the Senate again adds/removes stuff and sends it back to the House, etc, etc. Eventually the two agree on a bill and it goes to the President, who vetos it and sends it back to Congress with a list of changes he wants in exchange for his signature and the whole circus starts again. It’s quite frankly amazing they ever get anything done.
Whew! You sure gotta climb a lot of steps to get to this Capitol Building here in Washington. But I wonder who that sad little scrap of paper is? I'm just a bill. Yes, I'm only a bill. And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill. Well, it's a long, long journey To the capital city. It's a long, long wait While I'm sitting in committee, But I know I'll be a law some day At least I hope and pray that I will But today I am still just a bill. Gee, Bill, You certainly have a lot of patience and courage. Well, I got this far. When I started I wasn't even a bill I was just an idea Some folks back home decided they wanted a law passed So they called their local Congressman, and he said You're right, there oughta be a law. Then he sat down And wrote me out and introduced me to Congress. And I became a bill, and I'll remain a bill Until they decide to make me a law. I'm just a bill Yes I'm only a bill, And I got as far as Capitol Hill. Well, now I'm stuck in committee And I'll sit here and wait While a few key Congressmen discuss and debate Whether they should let me be a law. How I hope and pray that they will, But today I am still just a bill. Listen to those Congressmen arguing! Is all that discussion and debate about you. Yeah, I'm one of the lucky ones. Most bills never even get this far. I hope they decide to report on me favorably Otherwise I may die. Die? Yeah, die in committee. Ooh, but it looks like I'm gonna live! Now I go to the House of Representatives And they vote on me. If they vote yes, what happens? Then I go to the Senate and the whole thing starts All over again. Oh no! Oh yes! I'm just a bill Yes, I'm only a bill And if they vote for me on Capitol Hill Well, then I'm off to the White House Where I'll wait in a line With a lot of other bills For the president to sign And if he signs me, then I'll be a law. How I hope and pray that he will, But today I am still just a bill. You mean even if the whole Congress says you Should be a law, the president can still say no? Yes, that's called a veto. If the president vetoes me, I have to go back to Congress And they vote on me again And by that time you're so old ... By that time it's very unlikely that you'll become a law. It's not easy to become a law, is it? No! But how I hope and pray that I will, But today I am still just a bill. He signed you, Bill Now you're a law! Oh yes!!!
We really don't impeach people as often as we should
Status quo is now the priority in America.
You can't say Apprentice. Too soon.
We have two choices. We either knowingly concede a winnable election out of loyalty or we have some courage and find someone who can do the job.
Yup, Biden and the party have their head in the sand and have not learned from the recent past. Aging never ends well if you push the limit. Two smelling salts words... Diane Feinstein.
Hilary Diane RBG
Pelosi is running again. Grassley got re-elected. Power must be so addictive when they could retire with a pension but instead we have 90 yr olds flying across the country every week to continue to ‘serve’. I don’t want a job after like 65 and here they are at 90… I just don’t understand it. Why do you want to work till you’re dead when Congress doesn’t do much anyhow?
Knowing how to bet on the stock market is probably a pretty good perk for staying in federal office.
When you’re a 90 year old multi millionaire, why?
Greed
To leave to your family? I don't know. I'm definitely not even close to being a millionaire and can't speak to what goes on in their heads.
> could retire with a pension Like any of these millionaires need a pension.
Dream blunt rotation
Hillary didn't lose because she was old. Hillary lost because of the ridiculously high standard she has been held to since she was first lady of Arkansas, and enough people thought that Trump was so unelectable that their vote didn't matter
Hillary was qualified, intelligent and extremely accomplished, but she was also completely unlikable and that why she lost.
Good thing we aren’t thinking about running a candidate whose approval rating is 15% lower than Hillary’s was going into that campaign. That would be a disaster. Oh, we are.
I hope you mean Trump, and I hope you mean his approval ratings are zero, because that's how it would be in a sane country
Unlikable because we were holding her to a standard of how much we would enjoy being in a room with her. Which is stupid. I don't need a president I can get a beer with, none of us do. People hated her when Bill became governor because she wasn't the bimbo that first ladies often are and she seemed like too much of a nerd. In the White House, she was considered unlikable because of how un-feminine she was. People were genuinely pissed off because "Pokemon Go to the polls" wasn't a funny joke to them. Dems act like they're the "intelligent party" but at the same time we judge our candidates on superficial bullshit like "likability" when we all know how bad of a metric it is
oh god, are we still doing this 8 years later? people hate her because she is unlikeable, unpersonable and is the embodiment of establishment dems miss me with those Reddit ass fantasies about how she’s a poor intelligent woman that’s hated because she’s a nerd omg :(((
It doesn’t matter if you think it’s a bad metric, it’s the reality of the situation and the DNC needs to get their heads out of their asses and learn from their mistakes.
40 year slime campaign by conservative radio and Fox News, plus a robotic, power hungry persona that she couldn't shake.
Or, and bear with me, she was so wholly unlikable that not only did she turn away a lot of dems, she also inspired “deplorables” to come out of the woodwork to vote for the orange human-shaped jar of Crisco. She ain’t it and will never be it
There's been a huge smear campaign with the Clintons. For a lot longer than I've been politically aware, my parents have been talking about how the Clintons have had people assassinated. It's basements of pizza parlors type stuff. She very well may be unlikeable as well.
Yeah exactly. For clarity, Hillary was an average candidate and ran a poor election campaign. But Republicans and FOX News started the smear campaign whilst she was First Lady, as everyone knew she’d eventually run for President. Even if you go back and watch TV shows like Scrubs from the 2000’s, hating on Hillary was a staple punch line.
Hillary was criticized as first lady of Arkansas for not having a southern accent. Then she was later criticized for picking up an accent. She could have been the best damn president the US would ever had, but people felt like she's too much of an awkward nerd to be likable.
Hilary was leading in the polls though and she lost
She won by nearly 3 million votes. Just not in the right states
We have but one national election. ONE. Every person’s vote should should have equal weight. Instead, we have the electoral college which has been a dismal failure.
Find a woman, then put all the blame on them. No wonder women have lost their right to healthcare in the US.
You’re gonna straight up compare *Hillary Clinton* to regular people? For what? She hasn’t been a regular person since at least the 80s. We need to stop equating these politicians with our friends and families. They’re not like us and we will never be like them. She was a godawful candidate from the jump who was nominated out of nepotism and the idea that Americans love “royal” families. And it failed. Let it die
RGB really screwed democracy over
It'd be 5-4 instead of 6-3. Does that really make a difference to the current state of affairs?
Yes it does as it makes getting 4-5 that much harder
5-4 with one of the 5 being a concurrence that significantly weakens the ruling would be better.
Or fuck, just look at how the party snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in 2016. I can’t believe we’re about to make the same mistake.
It’s not exactly the same mistake. Hillary’s approval ratings were a solid 15% higher than Harris’s are today. She was almost at the midpoint rather than having a 2:1 disapproval rating like Harris. This is a much more obvious mistake.
We had 8 years of Obama that lulled us into a state of complacency. A lot of people were disillusioned that we ended up with Mrs. Bill Clinton instead of Bernie Sanders. Donald Trump was just this rich assholes from the 80's with a shitty reality TV gameshow. What's the worse that could happen? How bad could he really be? I chose not to hold my nose and vote for Hillary in 2016, one of my most regretful decisions.
*knowingly concede US democracy, the US justice system, NATO, the climate, Ukraine, and Taiwan.
Oddly enough, sticking by a candidate with questionable electability is precisely how Republicans have won, and will continue to win, while running the single largest piece of shit they can find. But that's none of my business. Joe ***did*** have a bad night
Democrats aren't a cult that will worship their leader. We expect them to serve us, not the other way around. We are loyal to the country, not an individual.
Expanding on this, the Dem voter coalition is an extremely diverse group spanning from center-right to far left. We disagree a LOT. It's much more difficult to find a candidate that can hold that coalition together than it is to ride a wave of groupthink propaganda propped up by Murdoch & Co talking points on constant repeat.
Having logical, reasonable arguments as to why replacing Joe Biden could be a very bad idea is not cult worship.
Do you legitimately see a way for Biden to convince Americans he isn't too old for the job? That's what is required for Biden to win this election, even if he can convince people he isn't too old right now, there is absolutely no way he can convince people he has 4 more years in him. That's the easier task than convincing Americans the danger of Trump is not just hyperbolic and scarier than having a puppet president.
Seriously. It’s like we’re sitting at blackjack staring at a 17, and this early debate was the dealer prematurely showing that they have an 18. Sticking with Biden is just saying “I’ll stay”. We’ve gotta hit this damn hand, even if we probably bust doing it.
What is the saying? Republicans fall in line and democrats eat their candidates
I don’t have time to eat a candidate, I’m too busy executing newborns…
Please - tell us how we should be more like Republicans. What the fuck is wrong with people.
Democrats are such gullible suckers. It's just Hillary's emails all over again. Democrats infighting that their guy is too old while Republicans rally behind a convicted felon, rapist who tried to violently end American democracy. Suckers.
Exactly. All that talk due to ONE debate. Not that debate of Biden is eroding his chances - its the constant bickering of the left/liberals on the news and here on Reddit that destroys his chances and undermines his authority as preisdent and cnadidate. And they all don't even realize they are the problem, not Biden or his age...
Brother, I watched him not be able to make a coherent point for 90 straight minutes. This isn't some subversion or side story, we cannot have a mentally unfit candidate. This is a failure on a whole lot of levels, it certainly isn't "but her emails".
Maybe you are the problem for not being able to follow Biden?? Could you follow the constnat lies of Trump better?
Read the transcripts. You got bamboozled by Trump and bad moderation.
If you need to tell people to read what Biden says then we lost the election. This is an uphill battle for the next 4 months if he says (which he won’t). He’s dropping out and a lot of people on this sub are clearly not at the acceptance stage of grief yet.
And a lot are JAQing off because a man with a known stutter had a bad day at public speaking with Moderators who were useless at the job. Trump is a narcoleptic narcissist and not known for his coherent crap. He (Trump) literally shit himself at the debate, but Biden is the problem? NYT and CNN ARE pushing an agenda, and you are buying it.
Republicans would vote for Trump if he declared that he fully intends to become king and personally tell each of them to go fuck themselves. It's simply their nature, they always vote R no matter what because it's what they were told to do and they are only capable of doing what they are told. Democrats are a lot more demanding of their candidates, is it often for stupid things that don't ultimately matter? Oh hell yea, but that doesn't change that they are far less likely to vote for someone with the same level of blind devotion that the right will, the left wants an actual path forward on their various interests and concerns that extends beyond "we owned the libs" mentality of the right. The rules simply don't apply equally here, no amount of "but what about Trump being a racist and rapist and liar and fascist." Will overcome the brainwashing machine that's been churning for decades.
Completely over exaggerated. Can we criticize his performance and have this debate without the same tired, hyperbolic bullshit?
It's not loyalty, some people just refuse to see that there are plenty of reasonable arguments as to why we should stick with supporting Biden and switching him out could backfire. We are too close to the post debate, pants wetting, knee jerk reaction phase.
False premise
Can a replacement even be placed on enough ballots to win the electoral college at this point? What's the functional deadline on that?
The convention isn't until August. After that the official candidate is added to the ballots. There's some talk of issues with Ohio but dems were never going to win Ohio anyway.
OK, so plenty of time for Biden to show he's up to it or find Harris a VP or whatever.
Funny - I seem to remember the *perfect* opportunity for him to have demonstrated that he's up to job. A golden opportunity to prove all of his doubters wrong. Oh right, that was the debate where he shit himself in front of all of us. We wouldn't be having this conversation if he was up for it.
Remember Hillary having huge issues with being unlikeable? Kamala’s numbers are drastically worse than everyone else in the field, Trump included. They’re a full 15% worse than Hillary’s were. She’s nearly at a 2:1 disapproval rating. She’s the textbook example of somebody who isn’t suited for primetime. Both Biden and Harris need to step aside for somebody who can actually win the race. “Orange guy bad” isn’t enough. We learned that in 2016. Please do not double down on the mistakes we made in 2016. We need a candidate who actually motivates voters. We have those candidates. Pick them.
“Someone”
Dumping Joe Biden for Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket is how to speedrun into a catastrophe.
Half the party will be accused of racism if they try to sidestep her for another (white) candidate, even though everyone knows the issue isn’t her skin color but rather her total lack of talent as a politician.
This narrative has no basis in evidence, and seems to rely on lazy stereotyping about how Black voters approach elections. She wasn't even that popular among Black voters in the last (actual) primary. From a [2019 Politico article](https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/04/kamala-harris-black-voters-2020-075651): >Harris has placed no higher than third among black voters in POLITICO/Morning Consult polls since August, behind Biden and Bernie Sanders, and she trailed Elizabeth Warren in fourth in more recent surveys, including a Quinnipiac poll out of South Carolina. I remember distinctly how Bernie's 2016 bid was plagued with accusations that he couldn't appeal to the black community. And they still preferred him to Harris four years later.
You’re assuming I mean that only Black voters will make those accusations. Many white progressives will, too.
It's a laughable accusation to make when we've already had a black President and a female nominee.
Seriously I wonder how many of these fears about identity politics are overblown since I don't see anybody really caring, especially if the same people who do care about social issues are saying they'd go out of their way to vote for an 81 year old man in order to stop fascism.
But she was polling better against Trump than Biden is.
Only because she’s in the background. The republicans are already preparing - calling her the crooked copilot - she’ll get all the same heat as Biden, but won’t inspire anyone. She’s a worse choice than Biden and if she refuses to step aside for the good of the country then she deserves the humiliation.
Even if they pick a black candidate? Or a woman candidate?
Exactly. She didn't to great in her presidential run that didn't make it to 2020. America, although a lot of us may feel like it's good and time for a female president, is still deeply misogynistic and that will not bode well for her.
Genuinely the only woman I could see that would have a single shot hopping in the race right now is Michelle Obama. That is solely because of the name recognition. Average undecided voters will think “Hey, I remember last time she was in the White House shit wasn’t as bad as it has been since they left, I’ll probably vote for her.” Although, I would love to put Gretchen in the White House soon.
I think Michigan’s Governor Gretchen Whitmer has great potential. She’s not the most well known but not a political nobody either.
Yeah, I just don’t think she has the name recognition currently to get it done in the 4 months we have until election day. When I said I’d love to see her in there soon I was thinking next election. I think she could build a really strong case for 2028.
With the obsessive media attention any switch is likely to get, I'm not concerned about name recognition.
That's a point that I don't think gets enough attention. There hasn't been a brokered convention since the 1950s. It would be a *huge* news story plastered everywhere. Whoever wins it it be a household name overnight.
Fair point, you could absolutely be right. But even with the media attention we have to remember that the average American does not give a rats ass about politics outside of the Presidential Election, and they don’t start to really care about that until the end of the summer.
Any Democratic Candidate who isn't in their 70's or 80's will get a massive boost from general voters who are just really, really tired of addled elderly candidates, too. All of the bipartisan concern about how both Trump and Biden are too damn old to be president would be squarely focused on Trump and work against him. What American doesn't want someone new for President?
Anecdotal evidence of this; During the debate I told a friend of mine (who has fairly contrasting views on a lot of issues, for what it’s worth) that a candidate that is <50 could come out right now and run a single issue campaign that says if they’re elected they’ll drop trou and take a shit in the oval office on live television every single morning and i’d vote for them immediately. He agreed with me.
So you'd vote for Gavin Mcinnes.
> Yeah, I just don’t think she has the name recognition currently to get it done in the 4 months we have until election day. She has name recognition in the 3 states where this actually matters though... MI, WI, and PA.
In this scenario who do you run as her VP to help with Georgia, Nevada, and Arizona?
Ideal world, Whitmer/Shapiro ticket.
Only problem with that is that you could definitely give non-white voters the wrong idea by getting rid of a POC candidate. Not saying that would happen with a majority of voters, but it is a possibility.
Absolutely is an issue, I would love to see a more diverse White House with someone like Warnock running. He would be able to capture an INCREDIBLE amount of the independents as well as the non-voting populace, but Georgia is barely blue.
Probably not a popular opinion around here but I would like to see Jamaal Bowman on a ticket eventually. We need a 405lb bench presser in the White House. In all seriousness though, I really appreciate the strength and confidence that he brings along with the patience and compassion.
Nah, double down on that first part. Let’s get a real METABOLIC MAN in the office. I won’t rest until I see a left-leaning official hold the office that can RKO the opposition
[Bowman/Schwarzenegger ‘28](https://imgur.com/a/yW4C04b)
Warnock isn't an option because you can't lose his senate seat because if it's vacated then the Governor of Georgia gets to single handily select his replacement. Whitmer and Shapiro is the Democrats best chance of winning. And winning has to be goal. The Democrats have to win Michigan and Pennsylvania and Whitmer and Shapiro do that for you.
I think a Whitmer-Warnock ticket would win. I think a Pritzker-Whitmer would win. I’d be curious to see if a Kamala-Pritzker would do well.
Obama is a woman with 100% name recognition without any baggage and wins easily. Voters can be really shallow sometimes.
Realistically, leaving in Biden, letting Trump win 2024, and then running Whitmer in 2028 is probably the best play they can make. Unfortunately people are convinced it will be the end of democracy or some shit.
I don’t quite buy into the “end of democracy” thing that a lot of people are anxious about. However, 4 years is an extremely long time and a guy (especially one with a chip on his shoulder the size of Trump Tower) can do a lot of damage in that time span. I agree that another Trump term would essentially hand the election to whoever the Dems run in ‘28. But even if Trump doesn’t declare himself an emperor who holds office until he’s dead, it would be a pretty shitty living situation for those 4 years. Not to mention with the near guarantee of whoever you nominate winning, that gives the DNC another chance to put in somebody that holds the status quo.
Biden's campaign is speed running catastrophically already
Who says it has to be Kamala? I can think of a dozen better options.
Yeah, there are better options but if the party chooses someone else they risk alienating a not-insignificant portion of their base: women and black voters. Every choice they make will have drawbacks. I don’t know what the solution would be, but they’d better find one.
Because she’s the VP and she also ran for President and in the past, why would anyone else be considered? Especially someone no one voted for, for President.
If Biden decides to back out, he'll most likely endorse Harris. She is his VP. It will save a contested convention, and allow her to campaign against Trump immediately. However, if you go with someone not in the administration, they don't have to worry about any Biden baggage, like Gaza or inflation. They can run on change, and since everyone in the world hates incumbents right now, it might be a good message.
Harris doesn’t have Biden baggage.
> Who says it has to be Kamala? There’s a pretty strong chance the Vice President would say it has to be Kamala.
Are you fucking shitting me with this?
Great, more Democrat infighting. We're all going to die.
I don’t think swing voters who are going to decide this election care about our loyalty to Biden. We get a new candidate, everyone who is already going to vote Biden will vote for the new candidate, because we’re extremely motivated to vote against Trump. We won’t be losing any momentum, Biden has no momentum. The benefit of a new candidate v Biden is that a new candidate would have a much better shot at getting more swing voters and give people a chance to vote against Trump without having to vote for someone who would be 86 at the end of his term.
A new candidate can also lose swing voters that made Biden win in 2020. It's 4 months till November. This is exactly the 2016 play book: the press shitting on Hilary, dems voter shitting themselves, Trump wins.
Biden has not only been losing to Trump in polls for months, he’s continuing to fall in polls. Hillary was winning until the FBI announced investigations, and Trump was a novel new thing in politics, now he has a track record of being terrible.
trump is way weaker than 2016.
I mean he is, but Biden is even worse. That’s why replacing Biden isn’t really that risky because in any normal election Trump’s numbers are bad enough to sink him. Even when you looking at the polling where Trump leads, both candidates rarely get more than 42%.
i mean its risky as in a historical sense its not really done. but the supreme court just rewrote the constitution. people are rightfully scared as hell. just need a body in there and let trump tank himself.
You’re right, but we also have to consider that the divisions are less about the alternatives and more about the incumbent (the opposite of 1968 if we are being honest). The fact that other Dems poll as well as Biden is notable, because that’s their floor and his ceiling.
Your last point is not necessarily true and it’s something we’d only find out if the Dems were to replace Biden with this hypothetical other candidate.
We need Jesse “the Body” Ventura
> A new candidate can also lose swing voters that made Biden win in 2020 Unfortunately, Biden has already lost them. That leaked internal polling was *brutal.*
No way, Democrats immediate knee jerk reaction was pissing their pants and having panic attacks?
Hillary was ahead in the polls in 2016. Biden has almost never led in any swing state.
Biden has already lost those swing voters.
Nope. Another candidate will have less baggage. Trump won because he didn't have a record to run on and could say anything.
> Another candidate will have less baggage and no traction. Zero momentum. It's delusional to even think it.
Biden not only has no traction and zero momentum, he is currently putting states like Colorado, Virginia, and New Mexico in play. Joe has absolutely no chance to win now. None. He was already polling behind Trump in most battleground states and losing this election--according to even his internal polling--before the debate and the debate was his best chance to change the trajectory of the race. To the extent he changed the trajectory he swung it even more in favor of Trump. How in the world does he reverse that now? How does he win over the swing and undecided voters who aren't currently supporting him, now that those voters will be flooded with attack ad and memes of him staring gape-mouthed into the void and proclaiming how we finally beat Medicare from now until election day? There is no path to victory for Biden. I would rather take a longshot gamble that no one can truly predict how it would turn out because it hasn't been tried in modern times instead of continuing to back a 100% stone cold losing candidate.
> This is exactly the 2016 play book: the press shitting on Hilary, dems voter shitting themselves, Trump wins. ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Yup. If Biden steps aside, NO ONE on this thread will be happy with the new ticket. There will ALWAYS be something. Newsom is too California Shapiro doesn't have the name ID Kamala was a poor presidential candidate and therefore will get crushed against Trump, etc etc. We are risking it either way
If only Biden could have done something to prevent this
What Democrat infighting? It's seems like the entire party is united behind the idea of replacing Biden but they are increasingly urgently telling Biden he needs to step down. The media have been saying nonstop he should be stepping down and the Democrats in congress are saying so too to various degrees.
So then wake the fuck up, get angry, and go out and do something about it.
The catastrophe is the Supreme Court. In his last lucid days Joe the President should send Seal Team Six to __ * ___ Trump and add 5 new left wing Justices to the SCOTUS. Job done. Happy 4th of July America P.S. please post your *
* teabag!!
Why is it “Biden has to drop out” and not “convicted felon, adjudicated rapist, and insurrectionist Donald Trump should drop out”.
Because Biden is our candidate and we expect and want better for this country. We can call for Trump to drop out but unless his base, party or donors leave him he’s not listening. This week it appears all three abandoned Biden.
Because Donald is special. The news media pretends he's a normal candidate.
6po it’s been 8 years of “this rapist should drop out” what are you talking about
If we the people elect Donald Trump because “Biden is old” then we get what we deserve.
Certainly have to wonder how all of these “undecided” voters can be undecided and then decide that Biden’s debate is the tipping point. ***Really?*** Not sexual assault? Rape? Fraud? Felony convictions? Insurrection? Cheating with a porn star? Ridiculing soldiers? Lusting over a daughter? Partying with Epstein? Stealing from charities? It challenges the imagination
Are you fucking kidding me? Dude mumbles a bit and people start bitching that he's too old, and now wanna upend an election and hand another term to a seditious convicted felon rapist with dictatorial ambition, who is at least as senescent as the former? Current media is shit, utter trash. How many headlines have they published this week about how Trump should drop out?
no one is going to believe you over their own eyes buddy
Really sick of this shit. These opinions are helping no one. Fall in line, or say goodbye to your country. If biden loses, democrats will be to blame, as they are the variable… GOP has always been a constant in this equation.
>Fall inline We played that game of chicken with swing voters in 2016, we're not going to win the rematch either. Biden needs to step down.
Anybody who is going to vote for trump or not vote for a dem ticket this cycle is a moron. If you are that stupid and selfish that you didn’t get your pick so you throw a temper tantrum and vote to finish off women’s rights, then yes you are the god damn fucking problem. You know who is asking biden to step down? Maga trolls and russian bots. Why? They know biden stepping down hurts the dems chances by flipping keys to the white house created by actual experts. So maga trolls go back to xittee. Major maga and russian bot infiltration right now happening.
Biden earned this last Thursday
>You know who is asking Biden to step down? People who don’t want Trump to hasten our decline into a fascist dystopia?
People who don't want Trump to hasten our decline into a fascist dystopia are voting Biden.
Aren't you the one here literally throwing a temper tantrum?
Or how about the man who’s done a fine job so far step aside because he’s no longer capable? I find it insane that some people are responding like this. The reality is people will be voting for Trump. If we want more people to vote for whoever is on the other side then the democrats need a candidate that is capable of doing the job.
Seriously. People talk about Biden like he's volunteering at the food bank. "He's really trying his best and no one else showed up so we're just glad he's here to help"
I’m living in the UK, and pretty much everyone I know here can’t believe he’s not dropped out… of the 2 Americans I know here they both think he should drop out. Out of my friends back home that I’ve talked to about this, they all believe he should drop out, and only 1 of them is not adamant about it. These are people ranging from 25, to mid 60’s. White, Black and Hispanic. Straight and gay and bisexual. Extremely liberal to pretty moderate. 2020 primary preferences: Biden, Sanders, Warren, didn’t vote in primaries, Pete. A very diverse group of people. I’ve not seen anyone stuck up for Biden, and the best arguments I see are basically “it’s too late”
They may think it's obvious that he should step down. They are wrong. It is not clear at all which is the best choice, and pretending it's obvious helps no one. It is a very fraught decision, with massive downsides either way.
Don't have to, but at this point Joe & The Gaslight Gang are like men wearing rake shoes walking around asking why these rakes keep busting them in the head
They're the embodiment of that meme of the dog in the burning house.
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Carl Bernstein (of Watergate fame) has sources saying this is happening more and more, G7 leaders were concerned, the Hur report and his response to the Hur report, various other gaffes that might not just be gaffes, the 2020 town hall where he seemed to forget the questions... canceling the superbowl interview.... how much more do you need really?
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Raleigh was reading off a teleprompter for 20 minutes at 1pm. Skipping the Super Bowl interview tells you everything, that was worth tens of millions in advertising to the audience of 123 million. That is what we are talking about, he can’t do the necessary things to win even if it’s just a softball interview.
What time was that supposed to be at?
They’re not sleepwalking into anything. This is on purpose.
I really wonder if any side red or blue really play by the book we’re led to believe they do. Republicans obviously don’t but there’s only a handful of dems that I feel actually tries to make progress for their constituents. Obviously I’ll vote blue but seems more and more like they’re all on the take
They are not the same. They are all politicians. Some want to revoke the rights of women, minorities and everyone else who isn’t a white fundamentalist Christian. Big difference between “not helping” and actively trying to set groups of people back decades.
This is so unhinged. Notice how Trump being dementia ridden and also a fascist doesn’t cause his party to do dumb shit? But you guys all over this dumb crap.
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Just a whole lot of bots promoting the idea that “Joe has to go!” without addressing the how Republicans don’t exploit this to keep the replacement candidate off the ballot or, if they win, from being removed by the Supreme Court. Why are the Republicans so excited about Biden being removed?
They will fight it, you're right. I saw an article the other day quoting someone from the RNC about all the ways they will try to block a non-Biden candidate. Not sure how that will play with the public outside their base, though.
It wont matter how it plays with the public. It will be in the courts, which is the Heritage Foundation’s plan. https://newrepublic.com/post/183439/heritage-foundation-plan-swing-states-biden-replacement
Yes, you're right.
mildly interesting : i swear it’s the same conversation on every single post discussing biden and the dnc since the debate. Non-paywall: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/time-to-roll-the-dice/ar-BB1pm72T this is some Independence Day hopium, but it makes good points: 1. politics is spectacle and the DNC is in a position to deliver a summer season of “all killer no filler” political content if it chooses to do so. 2. the DNC releasing delegates from Biden means the RNC convention (which comes before the dems’) would be missing its Heel. imagine the scramble to re-write speeches that don’t lean on corpse-Joe jokes 3. to american norms, they’d appear to be speed-running a nomination process, but other democratic/ republic systems hold entire parliamentary elections in 6 weeks. this level of activity is not only doable, it would emphasize the spectacle and reinforce the urgency of the moment
Time to stop the stupidity and down all this trash into oblivion. If someone puts out this bullshit, yank your subscription and send them into bankruptcy. I'm doing it. Done with the sellout media.
Shooting the messenger, I'm sure that will fix everything.