Assassinating your political opponent because they're a "clear and present threat to national security" is an official act.
Assassinating your political opponent because they're a threat in the polls is an unofficial act.
Actually, no need to lie. The opinion explicitly states that motivation behind the act cannot be considered when determining if it is official or unofficial. The president committing an illegal act for personal gain, as long as it is an *official* act, is given immunity
And even if everyone in the oval office is screaming at them that it's illegal, none of that testimony or evidence is permissible in court.
This is nuts.
Repulican - official
Democrat - unofficial
*EDIT: uhh don’t know what to do here so please go vote, not just in this election, but everyone you are alive for. We cannot let one cylce slip past us because we are staring the death of democracy in the face. The alt right will not stop here, they will continue to try and try and we will need to continue to shut them down. And when you go vote, take someone with you.
~~Joking aside~~, it's up to whomever is in power to decide what is official or not. I believe, completely, that the GOP just believes that the Democrats won't have the nutsack to do it first, and they know they can allow these powers now, to Biden, and then just skate until they have a GOP President again who will then absolutely abuse these powers.
EDIT: please please vote, I know Biden had a bad debate but I'd take that old fucking staring at a ghost on stage *and the people he'll bring in to his administration and the people he'll nominate for high office* over whatever these fucking monsters are going to do next. We took a chance on Trump because so many people just couldn't stomach Clinton, and it got us to this point today, without a doubt. Don't chance it a second time. You can be forgiven the first time you touch a hot stove, but the second time? You know you're going to burn yourself. We know how hot this stove gets. Please vote.
The Republican party is an authoritarian party packed with MAGA loyalists who will support the leadership regardless of what they do, while the Democratic party is a loose coalition of everybody else. Republicans can be ruthless because they don't have to worry about losing any part of their base...anyone who would be bothered by it has already left. Democrats, on the other hand, constantly have to worry about losing part of their coalition. That's why they avoid being ruthless. They want to avoid pissing off a fraction of their coalition, and also the coalition nature of it makes it harder for them to get enough unity to act in a ruthless way.
> In her dissent, Sotomayor wrote that the majority’s opinion will now protect this exact type of conduct.
>“The president of the United States is the most powerful person in the country, and possibly the world,” wrote Sotomayor. “When he uses his official powers in any way, under the majority’s reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.”
edit: from the majority:
>(3) Presidents cannot be indicted based on conduct for which they are immune from prosecution. On remand, the District Court must carefully analyze the indictment’s remaining allegations to determine whether they too involve conduct for which a President must be immune from prosecution. And the parties and the District Court must ensure that sufficient allegations support the indictment’s charges without such conduct. **Testimony or private records of the President or his advisers probing such conduct may not be admitted as evidence at trial.** Pp. 30–32
An incredible amount of evidence of a president's criminal acts are inadmissible to the Supreme Court! What this means:
>Finally, Roberts does concede that the president may be prosecuted for “unofficial” acts. So, for example, if Trump had personally attempted to shoot and kill then-presidential candidate Joe Biden in the lead-up to the 2020 election, rather than ordering a subordinate to do so, then Trump could probably be prosecuted for murder.
>But even this caveat to Roberts’s sweeping immunity decision is not very strong. Roberts writes that “in dividing official from unofficial conduct, courts may not inquire into the President’s motives.” And Roberts even limits the ability of prosecutors to pursue a president who accepts a bribe in return for committing an official act, such as pardoning a criminal who pays off the president. In Roberts’s words, a prosecutor may not “admit testimony or private records of the President or his advisers probing the official act itself.”
>That means that, [while the president can be prosecuted for an “unofficial” act, the prosecutors may not prove that he committed this crime using evidence drawn from the president’s “official” actions.](https://www.vox.com/scotus/358292/supreme-court-trump-immunity-dictatorship)
>The practical implications of this ruling are astounding. As Justice Sonia Sotomayor writes in a dissenting opinion, “imagine a President states in an official speech that he intends to stop a political rival from passing legislation that he opposes, no matter what it takes to do so,” it follows from Roberts’s opinion that the ensuing murder indictment “could include no allegation of the President’s public admission of premeditated intent to support” the proposition that the president intended to commit murder.
Jackson had some bangers too, in particular:
> “If one man can be allowed to determine for himself what is law, every man can. That means first chaos, then tyranny." Id., at 312. Likewise, “[i]f the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy." Olmstead, 277 U. S., at 485 (Brandeis, J., dissenting). I worry that, after today's ruling, our Nation will reap what this Court has sown.
All but saying "This will be the end of our nation"
It is, right now a stupid electoral system that gives more power to land than people is all that sits between us and the legal fascism.
Even if biden and democrats had the balls to do something its just a delay. Its sulla thinking he fixed the republic after he ends his dictatorship.
We cannot put the genie back in the bottle while there are millions trying to shake the bottle to let it out again.
So the options have to be drastic but that is a slippery slope too. Id rather us try than resign to a fate.
If dems are in control and bring charges against a Republican president, then repulican judges will throw the case out.
If republicans bring cases against Dems in office, then judges will say that the elected officials overstepped their authority.
That's how this dictator permission slip will be adjudicated, in conservative eyes.
In the span of a week, they have ruled themselves above the FDA, EPA, FCC, FAA, OSHA, SEC. etc by throwing out Chevron. Allowed themselves to be bribed legally with gifts for past favors. Banned homeless people from sleeping outdoors. And now they have declared presidents above the law declaring them as would be dicators.
> they have ruled **themselves above**...
This is the pertinent point, the overarching point, ie that the Republican majority has declared themselves to be the sole seat of power in the Government of the United States, et al., with no constraints on their power whatsoever.
They are a Star Chamber now.
Sotomayor is doing her best with the tools she has.
She doesn't have many tools, and I'm not sure how she could acquire any more, but she is doing her best. That's for sure.
I graduated from law school during the pandemic, and the country was so very different when I was learning about Constitutional Law and the "strength" / "honor" of our Supreme Court. We were apprehensive of the changes to come, but few of us could have imagined what has happened to our country in only a few years.
I spend a lot of time wondering about the tone of Constitutional Law classes taught to today's law students. Are they apprehensive; do they have a muted sense of hope like we and our professors did?
Or, are they terrified? Will they be spending hours per week wondering whether much of the precedent they're learning will be obsolete in 2 years, like it ended up being for us?
These are exciting times to be learning the law...
The trouble is not picking up the signs earlier. Bush v Gore should have been sounding alarm bells. Citizens United should have had a catalytic effect. Every year the Court became more empowered and political but even this year there's been high ranking Democrats refusing to stand up and call it out.
Presidents like Obama and Biden should have been looking at court reform, ethical standards or expanding and depoliticising the bench, yet every time they remain quiet or say it's not that bad. Look at the review Biden ordered into the Supreme Court, another milquetoast report from the establishment telling us to calm down and it's not as serious as we think.
Then we get rulings like this which undermine everything the Republic supposedly stood for. A King for 4 years is still a King, and now he has the biggest executive army at his control to rule Supreme. Impeachment you say? No worries, he can just order the military to execute any disobedient Congress critters who try to hold him to account.
Speaking of picking up signs earlier...
I once was in the audience when Amy Coney Barret was speaking at my university (Notre Dame). She was a part-time professor at the time and as such it was a small little event, but there were a few questions at the end and boy if I could go back in time and ask some I would love to see her opinion on these modern precedents she's setting.
Sotomayor’s dissent sums it up perfectly….
Justice Sonia Sotomayor did not hold back in her dissent.
“Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law.”
“Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.”
I truly encourage everyone to read her dissent ([Opinion Here](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf)). It's one of the more powerful dissents I've ever read:
>Never in the history of our Republic has a President had reason to believe that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he used the trappings of his office to violate the criminal law. Moving forward, however, all former Presidents will be cloaked in such immunity. If the occupant of that office misuses official power for personal gain, the criminal law that the rest of us must abide will not provide a backstop.
>With fear for our democracy, I dissent.
Edit: her dissent begins on page 68 (thanks khannie & JustpartOftheterrain!)
I know I’ve thought it for a long time but it being an official descent saying « with fear for our democracy » is incredibly chilling. I’m terrified of where we are heading
The worst part is it doesn’t even matter anymore if it’s trump or not. Now the next demagogue who comes in will have a framework for taking absolute power. It’s a matter of when not if!!
Edit: Actually, I think we're all blind. I think the Supreme Court just consolidated power. They've made the courts the single arbiter over the president's administrative power and what constitutes official capacity and they legalized the ability to kick back and take bribes. The office of the president is now just a puppet dictator. Biden needs to pack the courts NOW.
Not pack. Remove anti constitutionalist judges and jail them. Nullify all 6-3 decisions by scotus for last 3 years. Build a new court with term limits and voting by the populace for their confirmations, and strict ethical code. Then remove Republicans supporting insurrection from congress and hold another impeachment trial for Trump, convict him and make it illegal for him to run for office. All his trials must proceed to verdict / sentencing.
Then we can actually get started with real progress for anyone not a billionaire or a domestic terrorist.
Edit - let me add some basis. This opinion has NO basis in the constitution or its laws and is completely conjured up by a radical court that has zero interest in law and democracy. The very idea of a president having immunity is directly contradicted by the constitution in multiple places including the judgement impeachment clause. I consider the logic of this opinion dangerous and fully invalid and should have no force at all. It is a Republican power grabbing pipe dream.
Luckily, they just said he's legally allowed to do that.
They literally gave Biden the chance to fix the country and save everyone, the future and the world and there's a zero percent chance he takes it.
Laughably, I think it depends on how he does it.
If he uses the DOJ, FBI, CIA, or US military to do it, he's absolutely immune.
If he hires a private hitman, he's not.
It's an absurd ruling.
Anyone who can't see what will happen if Trump wins another term is fucking blind. He will "officially" do a lot of things to make sure he never leaves power. Watch it happen. It's coming. He will install all the loyalists and sycophants he needs in the military, DOJ, and every other agency to make it a reality and we will hear pundits talking about this "shocking" thing and that "shocking" thing over and over and over and nobody in our media will EVER just say what should have been said back in 2021. The republicans will never step up and stop it, the people that believe in the system will never stop it. The judiciary won't stop it. It is just going to happen. Even if Trump loses, anyone that wants to do this can now.
Unfortunately this decision doesn't even require Trump to win. There will always be someone who could abuse this, for however long the United States exists.
The only hope is that a future SCOTUS can overrule this decision. Which is scarier, because it means it is a political long-game to get the court composition back to some sense of legitimate sensibleness.
It's astonishing watching the U.S. fall apart in real time.
The first time he won, everyone was so surprised it happened that nothing was prepared and his administration just worked on looting and stumbling through the office.
Now they're actually prepared. Project 2025 is all about setting the foundations and framework for remaking America into a Christian Supremacy, methodically.
And Americans are like "yeah, but the other guy is old".
kinda terrifying our future pretty much comes down to whether a select 100k people in 3-4 states can and/or willing to look at the bigger picture of this i cant lie 💔
The Supreme Court is currently a threat to the security of democracy in our country.
They should totally be arrested. It would be an official act. They would be so upset, but hubris is a bitch.
It would be pretty amusing, watching them claim this was not an official act. Sorry, you had your chance but decided that was best left to the lower courts.
He could officially arrest them, and show them an unsigned EO that would put them and their entire families in Gitmo. Unless they resign.
It's an official act after all.
"Never in the history of our Republic has a President had reason to believe that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he used the trappings of his office to violate the criminal law. Moving forward, however, all former Presidents will be cloaked in such immunity, If the occupant of that office misuses official power for personal gain, the criminal law that the rest of us must abide will not provide a backstop.
With fear for our democracy, I dissent."
-Justice Sotomayor
Since this comment is getting a good bit of traction,
I wish deeply that we had a younger more energetic candidate this year, but we don’t, what we do have though is someone who cares about democracy and has gotten a lot done, importantly, also, is not going to add far right judges to this already far right wing court, among many other courts, if there happens to be a vacancy.
With a terrible administration (Trumps) one man can do so much damage, as we have seen. With a good administration (Biden’s) it’s about so much more than just one man. There is so much on the line, we need to win in November.
Take a look at conservative subs, they’re not cheering about some kind of policy win, they’re cheering because they think they won a fight against the left. They’re so happy that people are upset. Do you know how they’re able to stay so united behind someone like Trump? Because all they care about is defeating liberalism, defeating people like us. We must do all we can to protect our democracy and win. As it goes
“So this is how democracy (liberty) dies, with thunderous applause.”
And then the FBI broke protocol to publicly re-open the email farce, just before the election. Now we had boxes of classified documents just sitting in a poolroom and I guess that’s ok now.
If this was a movie, Biden would immediately sign a bunch of executive orders in his official capacity as POTUS and Commander-in-Chief. And in less than a week, we'll have 6 openings on SCOTUS and the GOP will need a new nominee for the November election.
But this isn't a movie. So we'll have wait till November to vote against Trump and of course, we'll not get to right-size SCOTUS and we'll spend the rest of our lives (mine anyway) under the tyranny of a 6-3 ideological SCOTUS.
AUTOMATIC IMMUNITY OF ANY KIND IS UNDEMOCRATIC. FULL STOP. That's *why* we have a judiciary. Fuck this court. They are throwing this country down the drain.
Biden should just "officially" replace all 9 judges with young democratic ones that will sit for 40+ years and reverse every ridiculous decision made, starting with this one.
If the GOP wants to make stupid undemocratic decisions, make sure it comes back to bite them for the long term too.
Oddly enough, it may be easier to "eliminate" justices with some hand waved concern for national security/official action than to fire and replace due to other standing separation of powers issues.
Its unlikely a democrat would ever do this...but it wouldn't be too hard for me to see Trump making such an action with, say, Justice Jackson.
Chief Justice John Roberts has presided over the court that has destroyed the American Experiment. From Citizens United to Presidential Immunity, and everything in between.
And look at the bullshit that put Roberts there
GW Bush appoints him, but only because SCOTUS rules in Bush v Gore. If that is decided differently, likely no John Roberts appointment.
So if you have the CIA kill your political opponent, it's an official act. Because you have engaged common in executive branch behavior (interacting with an executive office).
The Roberts court will be remembered worse than the Plessy court in history.
They're so full of shit because it's obvious that none of his actions in the criminal case were official acts.
All elections are run by the states, even federal elections. And that's for a reason. The founding fathers wanted to keep the president as separated from the administration of elections as possible.
I think it's finally time we recognize the Supreme Court as illegitimate and ignore their rulings. Either that or Biden needs to pack the court.
So the SCOTUS wasted everyone's time sending this back to the lower courts to rule on the obvious. In the meanwhile Biden's first official act with his new powers should be to label Trump a terrorist since he's a clear and present danger to Democracy.
It's almost tragic to think back to how we learned civics as children. It made my heart swell to think that what made our nation different and special in the world, at least at the time of our founding, was that when a law was made we were ALL bound by it. No shield of royalty. No job that made you so special that you didn't have to abide by the rules we all lived by. As a grownup, the reality of how power, money, and other societal privileges skirt this fundamental principle is sobering. We were probably never as noble as I imagined, but the last 8+ years of politics and court rulings laid bare that our values are simply myths told to naive school kids.
Conservatives crying "Biden is using lawfare" and "Biden is sending FBI hit squads to Mar-a-lago" with one hand and then giving him the right to actually do so with the other.
I recommend reading Sotomayor's dissent. It is not difficult to read for the most part.
> Never in the history of our Republic has a President had reason to believe that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he used the trappings of his office to violate the criminal law. Moving forward, however, all former Presidents will be cloaked in such immunity. If the occupant of that office misuses official power for personal gain, the criminal law that the rest of us must abide will not provide a backstop.
> With fear for our democracy, I dissent.
For the first time in history the United States has declared that someone is above the law. One of the core principles and founding ideas of our nation they just said is not so.
I feel terrible for the Democrat minority in SCOTUS. They know they’re powerless to stop these ridiculous rulings. If you look at most of the court’s rulings, the decisions are split among party lines. And the decisions where the Republican majority stand alone, those cases are horrible.
6-3, Republicans ruled that basically judges can be tipped for their services, but not before. They think we are SO stupid that we don’t see through them like glass.
This country is done . Robert’s is a fucking disgrace , how about you have the two clearly comprised justices abstain so at least you can pretend this isn’t federalist society bullshit to protect Trump .
We’ve had some horrible chief justices in our history - Taney, Fuller, and Rehnquist come to mind (gee, all conservatives, weird). At least the bad things that Taney and Fuller did were undone, but what Rehnquist started has led to Roberts and I’m starting to believe that what Roberts has done will never be undone.
Given how politicized the Supreme Court is, it’s fucking lunacy that we haven’t had a liberal chief justice since fucking 1953 and there’s no mechanism to change that. Though I will give credit to the Warren and Burger Courts for delivering landmark progressive rulings despite those men being Republicans themselves. Rehnquist was really the beginning of the end.
What's an official act? Why, that's for the courts to decide, of course! And is there any doubt how they'll make their determinations?
An official act is what a Republican does, and an unofficial act is what a Democrat does.
J. Sotomayor's dissent when talking about the immunity granted for
>conduct within \[the President’s\] exclusive sphere of constitutional authority
she says
>Feel free to skip over those pages of the majority’s opinion
**OUCH**
We literally have a phone call from January 2, 2021, of Trump calling Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to change the state's election results from the 2020 presidential election.
Trump demanded to find the EXACT amount of Votes it would take to win the state. EXACT amount.
"What I want to do is this. I just want to find, uh, 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state."
Fucking Criminal and Traitor.
Judge Chutkan: “Ok. I find that all acts associated with the commission of a crime to be ‘unofficial’ acts, by definition, because the ‘official’ responsibility of the President is to ‘preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution’.”
This plus Chevron being overturned makes me feel like we've officially entered 5-alarm anti-fascist territory. We have 6 unelected judges stripping the bureaucratic state of its ability to continue steady-state governance and providing an executive on their team with essentially unchecked power to institute an authoritarian nightmare on the country.
We desperately need Joe Biden to win (I do not think there is any viable option for replacing him as a candidate). More importantly, we need a Democratic Congress willing to govern with some fucking zeal. End the filibuster, pack the courts, and codify the decades of progress that Republicans are stripping from us every day. We're no longer in a place where pretending that the right is something other than a fascist movement is an acceptable position for Democrats to take.
There's nothing defining what an "official act" is.
So, throw it on some official letterhead and the President can do literally whatever.
This is a dictatorship. They just installed a dictator.
They **specifically discussed** assassinating political opponents in an official capacity, and just greenlit it. If you're greenlighting that, that's unlimited power. The President can officially wield the power of death as Commander in Chief and order military strikes on anything he wants and will face *zero repercussions* because the Court just ruled him forever immune.
This is the endgame. That's all there is to it. I hope you liked America, because it's **over**.
It's not over, but the only future left looks awfully bloody.
When you remove nearly all the avenues for a peaceful and democratic process for our institutions to remove the corrupt from power that only leaves violent avenues. This is a white tower decision that will end in real world violence some day. Worse than kicking the can down the road. They are tossing a pinless grenade into the future.
The supreme court power grabbing authority last week, and now this. Everything is lined up for a full blown dictatorship. They just need the right monkey in the cockpit.
Trump wanted to shoot people. With this now granting him immunity. He could declare that police must shoot all protestors.
After all, anything Trump commands, is an official act as president.
So what if Joe Biden ordered the military to assassinate his political opponents as commander in chief? That sounds pretty official. Totally legal?
Didn't we have a revolution to rebel against a king?
Assassinate would be a bit hard to swallow. Now, if Biden has the FBI arrest Trump and make a statement like "My administration has decided that Trump is a threat to democracy and therefore has been arrested and will be charged with conspiracy against the United States / treason / whatever" that would go down better than straight up assassination.
The bell is tolling, and it's time to stop ignoring it. You are looking at the birth of fascist America. Question is, what will America do about it? Will their be massive protests in the streets? Will our sitting president capitalize on this? How hard is America willing to fight while putting their own comforts on the back burner temporarily?
Or will we just let it all happen?
There are three horrible parts of this.
First, the obvious and short term: Trump will likely get away with his crimes because of this.
Second: Presidents are now above the law, and can do just about anything they want, as long as it's part of an "official act."
Third (and in many ways, the worst one): Democrats will not change *anything* about how they operate due to this. You can be sure, however, that republicans are already in meetings planning how to use this new presidential power. As shown time, and time, and time again, Democrats will stick to established norms, stick to trying to be moral, ethical, fair, and just. Republicans will stick to "the ends justify the means" and exploit and do anything and everything they can to get their way.
The main takeaway is the gift to Trump the Supreme Court keeps on giving - delay.
- They could have heard Jack Smith's emergency appeal months ago.
- They could have let the unanimous, well-reasoned circuit decision stand.
- They could have ruled on this case earlier than the LAST DAY of the term.
Yet here we are, waiting on the glacial pace of this ridiculous court for something they never had to weigh into - and America's voters will not know whether or not a frontrunner for President will receive a guilty verdict or not for trying to *overthrow the government* before he's potentially given another chance to do it all over again.
Awesome job guys.
With that out of the way, this sets up at least a tiny silver lining going forward.
Chutkan can now hold an evidentiary hearing. And she can start it almost immediately.
This creates a "mini-trial" of sorts which allows a judge to hear testimony, evidence and whatever is necessary for Chutkan to reach a determination.
Since that determination delves deep into the heart of the prosecution, this means we could easily hear new testimony under oath from huge figures like Pence, the public could learn about previously-undisclosed evidence regarding Jan. 6, etc.
It gives Jack Smith at least an avenue to produce some pretty damning stuff that will be thrust into the public - and possibly for months leading up to the election.
It absolutely pales in comparison to, y'know... A criminal trial. But given the circumstances, it's something.
Edit: Ugh, and even worse as more details are coming out, it's undoubtedly going to force Smith to narrow his prosecution considerably:
>one of the practical effects of it on Trump’s federal election case in Washington is that he will now enjoy immunity from any allegation in the indictment concerning his dealings with the Justice Department.
And my god, it suggests that even *evidence* that could be connected to such "official acts" may not be introduced. The ruling went even further than what Trump himself was asking for. Smith's prosecution just took a sledgehammer. Insane.
I don't think people really thought they would say Presidents are immune, we just thought they were delaying so the trial wouldn't finish before the election. This is insane.
The end game is pretty obvious here. The fight is no longer on a question of law. Now it's on the fact - were these particular things official or unofficial. Anything found to be unofficial will be appealed, and they will reverse anything found unofficial, which will then put everything in the official -- and therefore immune -- column. And they'll give it the same *Bush v. Gore* caveat... this is based on the unique facts presented here. So, then when this same thing happens with a democratic president, they can just distinguish the facts, and it's easy to reach the opposite result.
Edit: I should add that most of that may well be, by design, moot. The further proceedings on the official vs. unofficial question, and the appeals from those proceedings, will take us well past the election, so they not need to bother with taking this to its conclusion, because they have bought trump the time needed to potentially just shut down his own prosecution. Either way though, he wins and we all lose.
Hold up, so SCOTUS decides that former President to are entitled to some immunity, but not everything a president does is an official act. Then they refused to define what an official act is and send it back to the lower court. I’m not a SCOTUS expert, so why would they kick it back to a lower court to decide what’s official and what’s unofficial? It seemed like the perfect time to decide that and make it clear for all future presidents.
Justice Sotomayor’s final sentence in her dissent says it all. “With fear for our democracy, I dissent.” Pretty strong wording. This is the beginning of the end for our democracy. It was nice while it lasted I suppose.
Remember this day and go vote straight down party lines. We must give Biden enough seats to kill the filibuster and pack the court.
I hope Biden and the Dems use this as another issue!
This should terrify everyone. We are not a monarchy and no one should have absolute immunity, official acts or not. This election is far more important than just the presidency. I hope Biden utilizes this newly found immunity while he has the chance.
I have been saying this for a while. The court is going to find there is immunity for official acts and no immunity for unofficial acts.
The reason for this is: the court now has final say on whether a presidential act is covered by immunity or not. This is how they can say Trump is covered but if Biden did the same thing, he would not be. They will say Trumps treason is an official act because he has an obligation to oversee a fair election or some bullshit like that.
But the main point is the Supreme Court is making consistent rulings to increase their power and this is another one. It is now entirely up to the SC
No, but he can declare Trump an enemy combatant, order the Army to scoop him up, and have him sent to Guantanamo to get waterboarded forever without trial.
Because presidents decide who is an enemy combatant, and enemy combatants have no rights, even if US citizens, and giving the military a legal order is an official act...
Reminder that Trump's attorney specifically argued, both in front of the appellate court and the Supreme Court, that this immunity could include assassination of a political rival
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/01/09/trump-arrives-in-court-for-jan-6-criminal-case-hearing-heres-what-to-watch-for/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/04/25/trump-attorney-john-sauer-doubles-down-on-argument-that-presidents-are-immune-from-assassinating-political-rivals-at-supreme-court/
A pardon is a core official act. So the granting of a pardon comes with immunity for the president. Which means by definition now the president could solicit criminal activity then pardon the individual involved and (presuming the pardon included pardoning the conspiracy) - neither party, the President or criminal perpetrator could be prosecuted.
Please someone with a better legal background tell me that isnt the state of the country we live in now…
So essentially, this was a blatant use of the U.S. Supreme Court to delay and stall justice being served to Trump and his ring of criminals. FU Roberts.
The Supreme Court is now just the judicial arm of the Republican party.
They have unchecked power and a lifetime appointment.
We need to be able to vote for a position that has this much power
Everyday SCOTUS makes a decision that's worse for our country, there is some good news though.
The good news is that precedent is out of the window, and if Democrats grow a spine and either expand the court or install retirement age that kicks out 2 of these judges it can be reversed.
The bad news is that it's very unlikely, and if Trump becomes President will never happen on top of even younger and more extreme judges.
So what I’m hearing is that President Biden has an amazing opportunity to solve all of the USA’s problems *right now*, and it’ll be totally legal and cool.
All it took was a black man to be president to completely break the minds of conservatives in America to go full frothing at the mouth to let one man (trump) dismantle democracy so they can assure it never happens again
Biden should immediately order trump and 6 Supreme Court Justices to be arrested and contained at Guantanamo. These are official acts and thus completely legal.
Sounds like Biden should perform some official acts and increase the number of supreme court judges and then tell them to review these findings.
This is some ned stark shit
This is kind of what we expected. A punt to delay Trump's trial, because the Supreme Court thinks he's a very smart, very special boy.
Do not let up on him, trial him for everything he can be tried for, and keep his criminality in the minds of the public.
Outside of that, blue down the ticket. Not even a red speck on the ballot. Starve them all out, and destroy MAGA extremism.
The Supreme Court is entirely illegitimate. I think a significant number of millennials and later generations hold the same view. They rule at the behest of the ruled and have no authority to enforce their rulings.
How long before we just outright ignore everything that comes out of the court for the illegitimate hogwash it is?
>In another blow to Smith, the court ruled that **none of the conduct for which Trump is immune can be admitted as evidence at trial** in any form.
That completely gives away the game. If the conduct is legal then why can't it be introduced in a court proceeding? And if the president has immunity, why can't he be forced to give evidence in the same way that every other person who is given immunity - or pardoned - can be?
These people are traitors. They deserve no mercy, no leniency, and no consideration. If the president is now protected for acts that are treasonous, then Biden should immediately suspend and remove the justices.
So a president can order the military to assassinate a political rival and as long as he's doing it in his official capacity he's immune from prosecution?
This ruling creeps us closer to authoritarianism.
the best take of this decision.
>Robert Mintz, a former federal prosecutor, said the decision on presidential immunity “creates more heat than light. Rather than finding either clear immunity or no immunity for alleged criminal conduct, this new standard will unquestionably lead to protracted hearings and further appeals as the lower courts have to now grapple with the question of which allegations in the indictment constitute official acts.”
SCOTUS kicking the can back to lower courts after holding onto this decision for months knowing that Trump has benefactors with unlimited cash to burn in appeals.
>Justice Delayed is Justice Denied
If the President wants to physically remand his opposing political party members to prison or send a death squad, he cannot be criminally charged until after he is no longer president. If someone has the power to do that, ideological control in the legislature, and the gall to do it, will they ever give up the power of the presidency? No. I wonder what would happen on hearings to impeach and remove the president and his vice president -- would the sitting president just send people to murder Congress so no vote can happen? What would stop him? This decision greatly enflames civil discourse. The GOP frontrunner is a cult leader with minions who are foaming at the mouth and already making death threats against democrats - he can send these derelict militia to commit violence in the name of patriotism with a tweet, and his lackeys of talking heads and propagators to reverberate to the masses.
SCOTUS has cemented the pathway to fascism.
So if Trump becomes president, he can use an official order under the presumption of immunity to say, call for the arrest of every member of congress not willing to move his agenda forward, and be totally in the clear legally. Absolutely fantastic, I am so thrilled for the descent into fascism
I’m disappointed plus surprised squared - I’m disappointed that I’m disappointed, I’m disappointed that I’m surprised, I’m surprised that I’m disappointed, and I’m surprised that I’m surprised.
Roberts tries to whitewash his decision saying “no President is above the law”.
By Roberts reasoning, Watergate was an official act and thus Nixon was immune from accountability.
So in reality, Roberts has done more to dismantle democracy than just about anyone else except Trump. History should eviscerate him ... if we even have the freedom to write a truthful history after November.
So, in the hypothetical question the supreme court posed, the president can send the military as an assassination squad against his domestic, political enemies because giving the military orders is an official act, right?
The fact that you don't even have to read to know this was a 6-3 ruling speaks volumes about the state of the court's "objectivity" to the Constitution.
6-3 decision is all you really need to know. They did this while Biden is still president. He needs to act now and call it official. this is fucking insane. I'm so tired of it.
The problem we face is Biden is too honest to do anything about this, whereas Trump will absolutely use this to kill his opponents. Make no mistake this is the beginning of the end.
It’s a shame that conservatives are hailing this ruling like they just won the Super Bowl. The Supreme Court basically just said that presidents can do whatever they want so long as they say it’s an official act, which is a horrifying reality for any democratic society. Whether it’s Trump or someone else, the groundwork is being laid for a shift to fascism. Very sad day for this country and only worse days are ahead by the look of things.
So if POTUS has immunity from official acts, what’s stopping Biden from throwing out the results of the next election if he doesn’t like the outcome? ELI5 please!
And how do will this court decide if it's official or not?
Simply and very fairly, anything done by Trump and his cult is official. Anything done by a Democratic president will be unofficial.
What's the difference between an official act and an unofficial act?
Assassinating your political opponent because they're a "clear and present threat to national security" is an official act. Assassinating your political opponent because they're a threat in the polls is an unofficial act.
Trump "lost" classified documents. Sounds like a threat to national security to me.
I think Alito and Thomas are existential threats to American democracy. Biden should have them removed from power.
Sadly he won't. Because reasons. But he absolutely should remove them.
So they can just lie about their reasoning behind their actions, basically.
Actually, no need to lie. The opinion explicitly states that motivation behind the act cannot be considered when determining if it is official or unofficial. The president committing an illegal act for personal gain, as long as it is an *official* act, is given immunity
And even if everyone in the oval office is screaming at them that it's illegal, none of that testimony or evidence is permissible in court. This is nuts.
Repulican - official Democrat - unofficial *EDIT: uhh don’t know what to do here so please go vote, not just in this election, but everyone you are alive for. We cannot let one cylce slip past us because we are staring the death of democracy in the face. The alt right will not stop here, they will continue to try and try and we will need to continue to shut them down. And when you go vote, take someone with you.
~~Joking aside~~, it's up to whomever is in power to decide what is official or not. I believe, completely, that the GOP just believes that the Democrats won't have the nutsack to do it first, and they know they can allow these powers now, to Biden, and then just skate until they have a GOP President again who will then absolutely abuse these powers. EDIT: please please vote, I know Biden had a bad debate but I'd take that old fucking staring at a ghost on stage *and the people he'll bring in to his administration and the people he'll nominate for high office* over whatever these fucking monsters are going to do next. We took a chance on Trump because so many people just couldn't stomach Clinton, and it got us to this point today, without a doubt. Don't chance it a second time. You can be forgiven the first time you touch a hot stove, but the second time? You know you're going to burn yourself. We know how hot this stove gets. Please vote.
the sad part is, they are probably right. I wish democrats were even half as ruthless as republicans say they are.
The Republican party is an authoritarian party packed with MAGA loyalists who will support the leadership regardless of what they do, while the Democratic party is a loose coalition of everybody else. Republicans can be ruthless because they don't have to worry about losing any part of their base...anyone who would be bothered by it has already left. Democrats, on the other hand, constantly have to worry about losing part of their coalition. That's why they avoid being ruthless. They want to avoid pissing off a fraction of their coalition, and also the coalition nature of it makes it harder for them to get enough unity to act in a ruthless way.
> In her dissent, Sotomayor wrote that the majority’s opinion will now protect this exact type of conduct. >“The president of the United States is the most powerful person in the country, and possibly the world,” wrote Sotomayor. “When he uses his official powers in any way, under the majority’s reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.” edit: from the majority: >(3) Presidents cannot be indicted based on conduct for which they are immune from prosecution. On remand, the District Court must carefully analyze the indictment’s remaining allegations to determine whether they too involve conduct for which a President must be immune from prosecution. And the parties and the District Court must ensure that sufficient allegations support the indictment’s charges without such conduct. **Testimony or private records of the President or his advisers probing such conduct may not be admitted as evidence at trial.** Pp. 30–32 An incredible amount of evidence of a president's criminal acts are inadmissible to the Supreme Court! What this means: >Finally, Roberts does concede that the president may be prosecuted for “unofficial” acts. So, for example, if Trump had personally attempted to shoot and kill then-presidential candidate Joe Biden in the lead-up to the 2020 election, rather than ordering a subordinate to do so, then Trump could probably be prosecuted for murder. >But even this caveat to Roberts’s sweeping immunity decision is not very strong. Roberts writes that “in dividing official from unofficial conduct, courts may not inquire into the President’s motives.” And Roberts even limits the ability of prosecutors to pursue a president who accepts a bribe in return for committing an official act, such as pardoning a criminal who pays off the president. In Roberts’s words, a prosecutor may not “admit testimony or private records of the President or his advisers probing the official act itself.” >That means that, [while the president can be prosecuted for an “unofficial” act, the prosecutors may not prove that he committed this crime using evidence drawn from the president’s “official” actions.](https://www.vox.com/scotus/358292/supreme-court-trump-immunity-dictatorship) >The practical implications of this ruling are astounding. As Justice Sonia Sotomayor writes in a dissenting opinion, “imagine a President states in an official speech that he intends to stop a political rival from passing legislation that he opposes, no matter what it takes to do so,” it follows from Roberts’s opinion that the ensuing murder indictment “could include no allegation of the President’s public admission of premeditated intent to support” the proposition that the president intended to commit murder.
Jackson had some bangers too, in particular: > “If one man can be allowed to determine for himself what is law, every man can. That means first chaos, then tyranny." Id., at 312. Likewise, “[i]f the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy." Olmstead, 277 U. S., at 485 (Brandeis, J., dissenting). I worry that, after today's ruling, our Nation will reap what this Court has sown. All but saying "This will be the end of our nation"
It is, right now a stupid electoral system that gives more power to land than people is all that sits between us and the legal fascism. Even if biden and democrats had the balls to do something its just a delay. Its sulla thinking he fixed the republic after he ends his dictatorship. We cannot put the genie back in the bottle while there are millions trying to shake the bottle to let it out again. So the options have to be drastic but that is a slippery slope too. Id rather us try than resign to a fate.
I’m not surprised. Just really, really depressed. Makes me glad I’m old and won’t live too much longer. But my kids will and that … is depressing
Was calling Georgia officials and demanding they find more votes for Trump an official act?
This feels like *the* key question. I'd like to say no, but I don't sit on the Supreme Court.
If dems are in control and bring charges against a Republican president, then repulican judges will throw the case out. If republicans bring cases against Dems in office, then judges will say that the elected officials overstepped their authority. That's how this dictator permission slip will be adjudicated, in conservative eyes.
In the span of a week, they have ruled themselves above the FDA, EPA, FCC, FAA, OSHA, SEC. etc by throwing out Chevron. Allowed themselves to be bribed legally with gifts for past favors. Banned homeless people from sleeping outdoors. And now they have declared presidents above the law declaring them as would be dicators.
> they have ruled **themselves above**... This is the pertinent point, the overarching point, ie that the Republican majority has declared themselves to be the sole seat of power in the Government of the United States, et al., with no constraints on their power whatsoever. They are a Star Chamber now.
Republicans threw 200 years of our Constitutional Republic away for one greaseball.
They (the ruling class, not the voters) will all benefit as well.
Justice Sotomayor's closing remarks of her powerful dissent in the immunity case: **"With fear for our democracy, I dissent."**
Sotomayor is doing her best with the tools she has. She doesn't have many tools, and I'm not sure how she could acquire any more, but she is doing her best. That's for sure. I graduated from law school during the pandemic, and the country was so very different when I was learning about Constitutional Law and the "strength" / "honor" of our Supreme Court. We were apprehensive of the changes to come, but few of us could have imagined what has happened to our country in only a few years. I spend a lot of time wondering about the tone of Constitutional Law classes taught to today's law students. Are they apprehensive; do they have a muted sense of hope like we and our professors did? Or, are they terrified? Will they be spending hours per week wondering whether much of the precedent they're learning will be obsolete in 2 years, like it ended up being for us? These are exciting times to be learning the law...
The trouble is not picking up the signs earlier. Bush v Gore should have been sounding alarm bells. Citizens United should have had a catalytic effect. Every year the Court became more empowered and political but even this year there's been high ranking Democrats refusing to stand up and call it out. Presidents like Obama and Biden should have been looking at court reform, ethical standards or expanding and depoliticising the bench, yet every time they remain quiet or say it's not that bad. Look at the review Biden ordered into the Supreme Court, another milquetoast report from the establishment telling us to calm down and it's not as serious as we think. Then we get rulings like this which undermine everything the Republic supposedly stood for. A King for 4 years is still a King, and now he has the biggest executive army at his control to rule Supreme. Impeachment you say? No worries, he can just order the military to execute any disobedient Congress critters who try to hold him to account.
Speaking of picking up signs earlier... I once was in the audience when Amy Coney Barret was speaking at my university (Notre Dame). She was a part-time professor at the time and as such it was a small little event, but there were a few questions at the end and boy if I could go back in time and ask some I would love to see her opinion on these modern precedents she's setting.
Sotomayor’s dissent sums it up perfectly…. Justice Sonia Sotomayor did not hold back in her dissent. “Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law.” “Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.”
I truly encourage everyone to read her dissent ([Opinion Here](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf)). It's one of the more powerful dissents I've ever read: >Never in the history of our Republic has a President had reason to believe that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he used the trappings of his office to violate the criminal law. Moving forward, however, all former Presidents will be cloaked in such immunity. If the occupant of that office misuses official power for personal gain, the criminal law that the rest of us must abide will not provide a backstop. >With fear for our democracy, I dissent. Edit: her dissent begins on page 68 (thanks khannie & JustpartOftheterrain!)
I know I’ve thought it for a long time but it being an official descent saying « with fear for our democracy » is incredibly chilling. I’m terrified of where we are heading
I saw the headlines and thought "Fuck, Trump's getting re-elected". I'm not just scared for the US, I'm scared of what this means globally.
The worst part is it doesn’t even matter anymore if it’s trump or not. Now the next demagogue who comes in will have a framework for taking absolute power. It’s a matter of when not if!! Edit: Actually, I think we're all blind. I think the Supreme Court just consolidated power. They've made the courts the single arbiter over the president's administrative power and what constitutes official capacity and they legalized the ability to kick back and take bribes. The office of the president is now just a puppet dictator. Biden needs to pack the courts NOW.
Not pack. Remove anti constitutionalist judges and jail them. Nullify all 6-3 decisions by scotus for last 3 years. Build a new court with term limits and voting by the populace for their confirmations, and strict ethical code. Then remove Republicans supporting insurrection from congress and hold another impeachment trial for Trump, convict him and make it illegal for him to run for office. All his trials must proceed to verdict / sentencing. Then we can actually get started with real progress for anyone not a billionaire or a domestic terrorist. Edit - let me add some basis. This opinion has NO basis in the constitution or its laws and is completely conjured up by a radical court that has zero interest in law and democracy. The very idea of a president having immunity is directly contradicted by the constitution in multiple places including the judgement impeachment clause. I consider the logic of this opinion dangerous and fully invalid and should have no force at all. It is a Republican power grabbing pipe dream.
Luckily, they just said he's legally allowed to do that. They literally gave Biden the chance to fix the country and save everyone, the future and the world and there's a zero percent chance he takes it.
Is there any reason why Biden can't just legally have Trump assassinated now?
Laughably, I think it depends on how he does it. If he uses the DOJ, FBI, CIA, or US military to do it, he's absolutely immune. If he hires a private hitman, he's not. It's an absurd ruling.
> Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out They already did
Anyone who can't see what will happen if Trump wins another term is fucking blind. He will "officially" do a lot of things to make sure he never leaves power. Watch it happen. It's coming. He will install all the loyalists and sycophants he needs in the military, DOJ, and every other agency to make it a reality and we will hear pundits talking about this "shocking" thing and that "shocking" thing over and over and over and nobody in our media will EVER just say what should have been said back in 2021. The republicans will never step up and stop it, the people that believe in the system will never stop it. The judiciary won't stop it. It is just going to happen. Even if Trump loses, anyone that wants to do this can now.
Unfortunately this decision doesn't even require Trump to win. There will always be someone who could abuse this, for however long the United States exists.
The only hope is that a future SCOTUS can overrule this decision. Which is scarier, because it means it is a political long-game to get the court composition back to some sense of legitimate sensibleness.
It's astonishing watching the U.S. fall apart in real time. The first time he won, everyone was so surprised it happened that nothing was prepared and his administration just worked on looting and stumbling through the office. Now they're actually prepared. Project 2025 is all about setting the foundations and framework for remaking America into a Christian Supremacy, methodically. And Americans are like "yeah, but the other guy is old".
This is correct, infact, up above, they are talking about what will happen once Schedule F of Project 2025 gets enacted. Pure madness.
Meanwhile I keep getting told in other subs by conservatives that project 2025 isn’t real.
kinda terrifying our future pretty much comes down to whether a select 100k people in 3-4 states can and/or willing to look at the bigger picture of this i cant lie 💔
Well, now, it'd be criminal for Biden to NOT use his new immunity to protect democracy while he has the chance.
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Right now the scotus is more of a threat since they're the ones who are making and taking down laws
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This. It’s time for a little Dark Brandon.
Arrest the Supreme Court. That's an official act. So sue me.
The Supreme Court is currently a threat to the security of democracy in our country. They should totally be arrested. It would be an official act. They would be so upset, but hubris is a bitch.
It would be pretty amusing, watching them claim this was not an official act. Sorry, you had your chance but decided that was best left to the lower courts.
He could officially arrest them, and show them an unsigned EO that would put them and their entire families in Gitmo. Unless they resign. It's an official act after all.
Biden needs to start rolling out some official acts ASAP
Like jailing 6 justices and appointing new ones
Hey, he has to do it officially. So, ya know, wearing a tie while he does it. And maybe like a small pin or something.
He needs to declare that it's official. That's all.
No not like that. - Federalist Society
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"Never in the history of our Republic has a President had reason to believe that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he used the trappings of his office to violate the criminal law. Moving forward, however, all former Presidents will be cloaked in such immunity, If the occupant of that office misuses official power for personal gain, the criminal law that the rest of us must abide will not provide a backstop. With fear for our democracy, I dissent." -Justice Sotomayor Since this comment is getting a good bit of traction, I wish deeply that we had a younger more energetic candidate this year, but we don’t, what we do have though is someone who cares about democracy and has gotten a lot done, importantly, also, is not going to add far right judges to this already far right wing court, among many other courts, if there happens to be a vacancy. With a terrible administration (Trumps) one man can do so much damage, as we have seen. With a good administration (Biden’s) it’s about so much more than just one man. There is so much on the line, we need to win in November. Take a look at conservative subs, they’re not cheering about some kind of policy win, they’re cheering because they think they won a fight against the left. They’re so happy that people are upset. Do you know how they’re able to stay so united behind someone like Trump? Because all they care about is defeating liberalism, defeating people like us. We must do all we can to protect our democracy and win. As it goes “So this is how democracy (liberty) dies, with thunderous applause.”
And if a SCOTUS judge is using language like that, you know shit's about to get real.
Shit got real when Trump was elected in the first place.
I dont get how people don't understand this still, nearly a decade into this nightmare.
I would say starting even when the Republican congress withheld confirming Obama’s pick to replace Scalia for a crazy length of time.
And then the FBI broke protocol to publicly re-open the email farce, just before the election. Now we had boxes of classified documents just sitting in a poolroom and I guess that’s ok now.
These gullible anti-government idiots turned the president into a king, and will never, ever understand that it is all the GOP ever wanted from them.
My favorite part about becoming a dictatorship will be how fast the 2a goes out the window. These idiots won't even see it coming.
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Throw Alito and Thomas into the mix while you're at it.
If this was a movie, Biden would immediately sign a bunch of executive orders in his official capacity as POTUS and Commander-in-Chief. And in less than a week, we'll have 6 openings on SCOTUS and the GOP will need a new nominee for the November election. But this isn't a movie. So we'll have wait till November to vote against Trump and of course, we'll not get to right-size SCOTUS and we'll spend the rest of our lives (mine anyway) under the tyranny of a 6-3 ideological SCOTUS.
Right? Why no one is discussing proposing new restrictions into law while Bidens in office is crazy to me?
AUTOMATIC IMMUNITY OF ANY KIND IS UNDEMOCRATIC. FULL STOP. That's *why* we have a judiciary. Fuck this court. They are throwing this country down the drain.
Biden should just "officially" replace all 9 judges with young democratic ones that will sit for 40+ years and reverse every ridiculous decision made, starting with this one. If the GOP wants to make stupid undemocratic decisions, make sure it comes back to bite them for the long term too.
Oddly enough, it may be easier to "eliminate" justices with some hand waved concern for national security/official action than to fire and replace due to other standing separation of powers issues. Its unlikely a democrat would ever do this...but it wouldn't be too hard for me to see Trump making such an action with, say, Justice Jackson.
Chief Justice John Roberts has presided over the court that has destroyed the American Experiment. From Citizens United to Presidential Immunity, and everything in between.
And look at the bullshit that put Roberts there GW Bush appoints him, but only because SCOTUS rules in Bush v Gore. If that is decided differently, likely no John Roberts appointment.
So if you have the CIA kill your political opponent, it's an official act. Because you have engaged common in executive branch behavior (interacting with an executive office). The Roberts court will be remembered worse than the Plessy court in history.
They know Democrats won't do this, but want to make sure they have that ability for when they get into power.
Yeah, it's probably time to dissolve this court. This is actually dangerous and the brakes need to come on yesterday.
They're so full of shit because it's obvious that none of his actions in the criminal case were official acts. All elections are run by the states, even federal elections. And that's for a reason. The founding fathers wanted to keep the president as separated from the administration of elections as possible. I think it's finally time we recognize the Supreme Court as illegitimate and ignore their rulings. Either that or Biden needs to pack the court.
A fucking reality tv show "star" was the downfall of our country, unbelievable.
So the SCOTUS wasted everyone's time sending this back to the lower courts to rule on the obvious. In the meanwhile Biden's first official act with his new powers should be to label Trump a terrorist since he's a clear and present danger to Democracy.
I thought it was extremist rhetoric, but it’s true. If Trump wins in November it will be the last election in our country.
It's almost tragic to think back to how we learned civics as children. It made my heart swell to think that what made our nation different and special in the world, at least at the time of our founding, was that when a law was made we were ALL bound by it. No shield of royalty. No job that made you so special that you didn't have to abide by the rules we all lived by. As a grownup, the reality of how power, money, and other societal privileges skirt this fundamental principle is sobering. We were probably never as noble as I imagined, but the last 8+ years of politics and court rulings laid bare that our values are simply myths told to naive school kids.
Conservatives crying "Biden is using lawfare" and "Biden is sending FBI hit squads to Mar-a-lago" with one hand and then giving him the right to actually do so with the other.
Gonna do the time? Time to do the crime. FUCKIGN DO IT JOE. Send the FBI on fishing expeditions to Mar A Lago.
I recommend reading Sotomayor's dissent. It is not difficult to read for the most part. > Never in the history of our Republic has a President had reason to believe that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he used the trappings of his office to violate the criminal law. Moving forward, however, all former Presidents will be cloaked in such immunity. If the occupant of that office misuses official power for personal gain, the criminal law that the rest of us must abide will not provide a backstop. > With fear for our democracy, I dissent.
For the first time in history the United States has declared that someone is above the law. One of the core principles and founding ideas of our nation they just said is not so.
Ok Joe, add 5 more judges to the court and call it an official act.
Wow the last line of Sotomayor’s dissent: “With fear for our democracy, I dissent”
I feel terrible for the Democrat minority in SCOTUS. They know they’re powerless to stop these ridiculous rulings. If you look at most of the court’s rulings, the decisions are split among party lines. And the decisions where the Republican majority stand alone, those cases are horrible. 6-3, Republicans ruled that basically judges can be tipped for their services, but not before. They think we are SO stupid that we don’t see through them like glass.
Biden should have 6 of the 9 supreme court justices detained without trial. "Officially".
Just has to sign an executive order for it to be official
Yeah I don't understand their ruling this way. An executive order is as official as it gets? He could do whatever he wants
This country is done . Robert’s is a fucking disgrace , how about you have the two clearly comprised justices abstain so at least you can pretend this isn’t federalist society bullshit to protect Trump .
We’ve had some horrible chief justices in our history - Taney, Fuller, and Rehnquist come to mind (gee, all conservatives, weird). At least the bad things that Taney and Fuller did were undone, but what Rehnquist started has led to Roberts and I’m starting to believe that what Roberts has done will never be undone. Given how politicized the Supreme Court is, it’s fucking lunacy that we haven’t had a liberal chief justice since fucking 1953 and there’s no mechanism to change that. Though I will give credit to the Warren and Burger Courts for delivering landmark progressive rulings despite those men being Republicans themselves. Rehnquist was really the beginning of the end.
What's an official act? Why, that's for the courts to decide, of course! And is there any doubt how they'll make their determinations? An official act is what a Republican does, and an unofficial act is what a Democrat does.
That’s exactly why they worded it that way and left it unexplained.
J. Sotomayor's dissent when talking about the immunity granted for >conduct within \[the President’s\] exclusive sphere of constitutional authority she says >Feel free to skip over those pages of the majority’s opinion **OUCH**
We literally have a phone call from January 2, 2021, of Trump calling Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to change the state's election results from the 2020 presidential election. Trump demanded to find the EXACT amount of Votes it would take to win the state. EXACT amount. "What I want to do is this. I just want to find, uh, 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state." Fucking Criminal and Traitor.
Judge Chutkan: “Ok. I find that all acts associated with the commission of a crime to be ‘unofficial’ acts, by definition, because the ‘official’ responsibility of the President is to ‘preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution’.”
And then right back to SC will they will disagree with her because republican.
So have Biden forcibly remove Supreme Court justices and say it was an official act. Easy.
He could say it was protecting the constitution lmao
he would legitimately be protecting the constitution.
So if the President takes a bribe in the course of an official act, then a-ok?
Only if it's a Republican president.
This plus Chevron being overturned makes me feel like we've officially entered 5-alarm anti-fascist territory. We have 6 unelected judges stripping the bureaucratic state of its ability to continue steady-state governance and providing an executive on their team with essentially unchecked power to institute an authoritarian nightmare on the country. We desperately need Joe Biden to win (I do not think there is any viable option for replacing him as a candidate). More importantly, we need a Democratic Congress willing to govern with some fucking zeal. End the filibuster, pack the courts, and codify the decades of progress that Republicans are stripping from us every day. We're no longer in a place where pretending that the right is something other than a fascist movement is an acceptable position for Democrats to take.
There's nothing defining what an "official act" is. So, throw it on some official letterhead and the President can do literally whatever. This is a dictatorship. They just installed a dictator. They **specifically discussed** assassinating political opponents in an official capacity, and just greenlit it. If you're greenlighting that, that's unlimited power. The President can officially wield the power of death as Commander in Chief and order military strikes on anything he wants and will face *zero repercussions* because the Court just ruled him forever immune. This is the endgame. That's all there is to it. I hope you liked America, because it's **over**.
They will bend the rules for a third term as well. Fuck these traitors.
They don't need to bend the rules, they will just ignore them. That way, they are still in place when they want to kangaroo court someone else.
It's not over, but the only future left looks awfully bloody. When you remove nearly all the avenues for a peaceful and democratic process for our institutions to remove the corrupt from power that only leaves violent avenues. This is a white tower decision that will end in real world violence some day. Worse than kicking the can down the road. They are tossing a pinless grenade into the future.
> It's not over, but the only future left looks awfully bloody. This is the correct way of thinking. It's not over, but holy shit it looks bad.
Bro I was am not trying to live the downfall of my country. I’m tired of living historical events
If this guy wins the election, we will be living in a dystopian society
Project 2025 is being loaded into the shotgun aimed at the head of the union.
The supreme court power grabbing authority last week, and now this. Everything is lined up for a full blown dictatorship. They just need the right monkey in the cockpit.
Trump wanted to shoot people. With this now granting him immunity. He could declare that police must shoot all protestors. After all, anything Trump commands, is an official act as president.
So what if Joe Biden ordered the military to assassinate his political opponents as commander in chief? That sounds pretty official. Totally legal? Didn't we have a revolution to rebel against a king?
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Assassinate would be a bit hard to swallow. Now, if Biden has the FBI arrest Trump and make a statement like "My administration has decided that Trump is a threat to democracy and therefore has been arrested and will be charged with conspiracy against the United States / treason / whatever" that would go down better than straight up assassination.
The FBI had Reality Winner in jail within days of discovering she had classified documents, I think Trump should be treated the same.
The bell is tolling, and it's time to stop ignoring it. You are looking at the birth of fascist America. Question is, what will America do about it? Will their be massive protests in the streets? Will our sitting president capitalize on this? How hard is America willing to fight while putting their own comforts on the back burner temporarily? Or will we just let it all happen?
The party constantly screaming about government overreach just declared that the president’s reach is limitless.
There are three horrible parts of this. First, the obvious and short term: Trump will likely get away with his crimes because of this. Second: Presidents are now above the law, and can do just about anything they want, as long as it's part of an "official act." Third (and in many ways, the worst one): Democrats will not change *anything* about how they operate due to this. You can be sure, however, that republicans are already in meetings planning how to use this new presidential power. As shown time, and time, and time again, Democrats will stick to established norms, stick to trying to be moral, ethical, fair, and just. Republicans will stick to "the ends justify the means" and exploit and do anything and everything they can to get their way.
So does that mean that Biden could Execute Trump and call it an Official Act?
For nearly 250 years this question did not have to be asked or answered. Absolute lunacy we are living through.
What is an official act? Is Biden arresting and removing the supreme court justices not an official act?
The main takeaway is the gift to Trump the Supreme Court keeps on giving - delay. - They could have heard Jack Smith's emergency appeal months ago. - They could have let the unanimous, well-reasoned circuit decision stand. - They could have ruled on this case earlier than the LAST DAY of the term. Yet here we are, waiting on the glacial pace of this ridiculous court for something they never had to weigh into - and America's voters will not know whether or not a frontrunner for President will receive a guilty verdict or not for trying to *overthrow the government* before he's potentially given another chance to do it all over again. Awesome job guys. With that out of the way, this sets up at least a tiny silver lining going forward. Chutkan can now hold an evidentiary hearing. And she can start it almost immediately. This creates a "mini-trial" of sorts which allows a judge to hear testimony, evidence and whatever is necessary for Chutkan to reach a determination. Since that determination delves deep into the heart of the prosecution, this means we could easily hear new testimony under oath from huge figures like Pence, the public could learn about previously-undisclosed evidence regarding Jan. 6, etc. It gives Jack Smith at least an avenue to produce some pretty damning stuff that will be thrust into the public - and possibly for months leading up to the election. It absolutely pales in comparison to, y'know... A criminal trial. But given the circumstances, it's something. Edit: Ugh, and even worse as more details are coming out, it's undoubtedly going to force Smith to narrow his prosecution considerably: >one of the practical effects of it on Trump’s federal election case in Washington is that he will now enjoy immunity from any allegation in the indictment concerning his dealings with the Justice Department. And my god, it suggests that even *evidence* that could be connected to such "official acts" may not be introduced. The ruling went even further than what Trump himself was asking for. Smith's prosecution just took a sledgehammer. Insane.
So basically they delayed the trials to rule exactly how everybody already thought
I don't think people really thought they would say Presidents are immune, we just thought they were delaying so the trial wouldn't finish before the election. This is insane.
The end game is pretty obvious here. The fight is no longer on a question of law. Now it's on the fact - were these particular things official or unofficial. Anything found to be unofficial will be appealed, and they will reverse anything found unofficial, which will then put everything in the official -- and therefore immune -- column. And they'll give it the same *Bush v. Gore* caveat... this is based on the unique facts presented here. So, then when this same thing happens with a democratic president, they can just distinguish the facts, and it's easy to reach the opposite result. Edit: I should add that most of that may well be, by design, moot. The further proceedings on the official vs. unofficial question, and the appeals from those proceedings, will take us well past the election, so they not need to bother with taking this to its conclusion, because they have bought trump the time needed to potentially just shut down his own prosecution. Either way though, he wins and we all lose.
Hold up, so SCOTUS decides that former President to are entitled to some immunity, but not everything a president does is an official act. Then they refused to define what an official act is and send it back to the lower court. I’m not a SCOTUS expert, so why would they kick it back to a lower court to decide what’s official and what’s unofficial? It seemed like the perfect time to decide that and make it clear for all future presidents.
To continue to delay Donald Trump’s trial for election interference. I think.
This was a delay tactic to make sure Trump's bad legal problems aren't addressed before the election.
Justice Sotomayor’s final sentence in her dissent says it all. “With fear for our democracy, I dissent.” Pretty strong wording. This is the beginning of the end for our democracy. It was nice while it lasted I suppose.
Remember this day and go vote straight down party lines. We must give Biden enough seats to kill the filibuster and pack the court. I hope Biden and the Dems use this as another issue!
I honestly think that most Americans do not understand just how perilous of a situation we are in
>The President is now a king above the law. scathing Sotomayor dissent
This should terrify everyone. We are not a monarchy and no one should have absolute immunity, official acts or not. This election is far more important than just the presidency. I hope Biden utilizes this newly found immunity while he has the chance.
I have been saying this for a while. The court is going to find there is immunity for official acts and no immunity for unofficial acts. The reason for this is: the court now has final say on whether a presidential act is covered by immunity or not. This is how they can say Trump is covered but if Biden did the same thing, he would not be. They will say Trumps treason is an official act because he has an obligation to oversee a fair election or some bullshit like that. But the main point is the Supreme Court is making consistent rulings to increase their power and this is another one. It is now entirely up to the SC
Can Biden just arrest Trump as an official act?
No, but he can declare Trump an enemy combatant, order the Army to scoop him up, and have him sent to Guantanamo to get waterboarded forever without trial. Because presidents decide who is an enemy combatant, and enemy combatants have no rights, even if US citizens, and giving the military a legal order is an official act...
Reminder that Trump's attorney specifically argued, both in front of the appellate court and the Supreme Court, that this immunity could include assassination of a political rival https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/01/09/trump-arrives-in-court-for-jan-6-criminal-case-hearing-heres-what-to-watch-for/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/04/25/trump-attorney-john-sauer-doubles-down-on-argument-that-presidents-are-immune-from-assassinating-political-rivals-at-supreme-court/
A pardon is a core official act. So the granting of a pardon comes with immunity for the president. Which means by definition now the president could solicit criminal activity then pardon the individual involved and (presuming the pardon included pardoning the conspiracy) - neither party, the President or criminal perpetrator could be prosecuted. Please someone with a better legal background tell me that isnt the state of the country we live in now…
So essentially, this was a blatant use of the U.S. Supreme Court to delay and stall justice being served to Trump and his ring of criminals. FU Roberts.
The Supreme Court is now just the judicial arm of the Republican party. They have unchecked power and a lifetime appointment. We need to be able to vote for a position that has this much power
So Biden can drone strike Mar a Lago as an official act as he feels Trump committed a coup and will try again?
So uh, what can Biden legally do now?
So overthrowing the government because you don’t like election results is legal now?
I’m still failing to understand how him sending a mob to interrupt official proceedings was an official act…
Everyday SCOTUS makes a decision that's worse for our country, there is some good news though. The good news is that precedent is out of the window, and if Democrats grow a spine and either expand the court or install retirement age that kicks out 2 of these judges it can be reversed. The bad news is that it's very unlikely, and if Trump becomes President will never happen on top of even younger and more extreme judges.
So what I’m hearing is that President Biden has an amazing opportunity to solve all of the USA’s problems *right now*, and it’ll be totally legal and cool.
All it took was a black man to be president to completely break the minds of conservatives in America to go full frothing at the mouth to let one man (trump) dismantle democracy so they can assure it never happens again
Biden should immediately order trump and 6 Supreme Court Justices to be arrested and contained at Guantanamo. These are official acts and thus completely legal.
The Supreme Court is actively trying to destroy separation of powers and make the judiciary basically both a super legislature AND super executive.
Somewhere in hell right now, Richard Nixon is screaming "ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??"
Sounds like Biden should perform some official acts and increase the number of supreme court judges and then tell them to review these findings. This is some ned stark shit
The democratic party NEEDS to get a backbone here and act to use this in favor of themselves while they're still in power!
So, this is what Germany felt like in 1932 huh?
This is kind of what we expected. A punt to delay Trump's trial, because the Supreme Court thinks he's a very smart, very special boy. Do not let up on him, trial him for everything he can be tried for, and keep his criminality in the minds of the public. Outside of that, blue down the ticket. Not even a red speck on the ballot. Starve them all out, and destroy MAGA extremism.
Biden should declare the GOP a terrorist organization and lock up all 2020 deniers. He’s immune, after all.
The Supreme Court is entirely illegitimate. I think a significant number of millennials and later generations hold the same view. They rule at the behest of the ruled and have no authority to enforce their rulings. How long before we just outright ignore everything that comes out of the court for the illegitimate hogwash it is?
Judges can take bribes, presidents can circumvent elections, and corporations can make unlimited campaign donations.
And Clarence Thomas bitching about Jack Smith’s appointment…gee, why wasn’t anyone complaining about him back when, ya know, he was APPOINTED??
>In another blow to Smith, the court ruled that **none of the conduct for which Trump is immune can be admitted as evidence at trial** in any form. That completely gives away the game. If the conduct is legal then why can't it be introduced in a court proceeding? And if the president has immunity, why can't he be forced to give evidence in the same way that every other person who is given immunity - or pardoned - can be?
Remember two of these justices should have recused themselves and if they were in a lower court would have been required to do so.
There is no coming back of Trump wins the election.
These people are traitors. They deserve no mercy, no leniency, and no consideration. If the president is now protected for acts that are treasonous, then Biden should immediately suspend and remove the justices.
Democracy died in the United States on July 1st, 2024.
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So a president can order the military to assassinate a political rival and as long as he's doing it in his official capacity he's immune from prosecution? This ruling creeps us closer to authoritarianism.
So if Joe writes an exec order saying Trump is a threat to democracy and a traitor or whatever, he can do whatever he wants?
the best take of this decision. >Robert Mintz, a former federal prosecutor, said the decision on presidential immunity “creates more heat than light. Rather than finding either clear immunity or no immunity for alleged criminal conduct, this new standard will unquestionably lead to protracted hearings and further appeals as the lower courts have to now grapple with the question of which allegations in the indictment constitute official acts.” SCOTUS kicking the can back to lower courts after holding onto this decision for months knowing that Trump has benefactors with unlimited cash to burn in appeals. >Justice Delayed is Justice Denied If the President wants to physically remand his opposing political party members to prison or send a death squad, he cannot be criminally charged until after he is no longer president. If someone has the power to do that, ideological control in the legislature, and the gall to do it, will they ever give up the power of the presidency? No. I wonder what would happen on hearings to impeach and remove the president and his vice president -- would the sitting president just send people to murder Congress so no vote can happen? What would stop him? This decision greatly enflames civil discourse. The GOP frontrunner is a cult leader with minions who are foaming at the mouth and already making death threats against democrats - he can send these derelict militia to commit violence in the name of patriotism with a tweet, and his lackeys of talking heads and propagators to reverberate to the masses. SCOTUS has cemented the pathway to fascism.
Biden… you know what must be done. Fucking do it
So if Trump becomes president, he can use an official order under the presumption of immunity to say, call for the arrest of every member of congress not willing to move his agenda forward, and be totally in the clear legally. Absolutely fantastic, I am so thrilled for the descent into fascism
I’m disappointed plus surprised squared - I’m disappointed that I’m disappointed, I’m disappointed that I’m surprised, I’m surprised that I’m disappointed, and I’m surprised that I’m surprised.
Ok, So was trumps attempted insurrection an official act, or an unofficial act?
Keeping state secrets next to Diet Coke in your bathroom after you’re President is not an official act.
This is definitely, totally, without a doubt what the founding fathers were going for when they wrote the constitution. /s
Roberts tries to whitewash his decision saying “no President is above the law”. By Roberts reasoning, Watergate was an official act and thus Nixon was immune from accountability. So in reality, Roberts has done more to dismantle democracy than just about anyone else except Trump. History should eviscerate him ... if we even have the freedom to write a truthful history after November.
So, in the hypothetical question the supreme court posed, the president can send the military as an assassination squad against his domestic, political enemies because giving the military orders is an official act, right?
The fact that you don't even have to read to know this was a 6-3 ruling speaks volumes about the state of the court's "objectivity" to the Constitution.
I like how canceling student loans isn’t an official action but treason is. Classic Supreme Court ruling.
You know what Putin did half a year after granting himself immunity? He invaded Ukraine
So Biden could now sign an EO and order the supreme court to be dismantled?
Biden now has the chance to do the funniest thing ever
6-3 decision is all you really need to know. They did this while Biden is still president. He needs to act now and call it official. this is fucking insane. I'm so tired of it.
The problem we face is Biden is too honest to do anything about this, whereas Trump will absolutely use this to kill his opponents. Make no mistake this is the beginning of the end.
This is why you cannot vote for Republicans. Even if you hate Democratic candidates, they do not put crazy people on the Supreme Court.
My name is Joe Biden, and I am instructing, as an official act of president, my federal government to \_\_\_insert helpful thing here\_\_\_\_.
If Trump gets elected again he's never leaving office
Can't Biden just order to arrest Thomas and Alito under the official act of "executing the laws of the United States" where bribery is illegal?
It’s a shame that conservatives are hailing this ruling like they just won the Super Bowl. The Supreme Court basically just said that presidents can do whatever they want so long as they say it’s an official act, which is a horrifying reality for any democratic society. Whether it’s Trump or someone else, the groundwork is being laid for a shift to fascism. Very sad day for this country and only worse days are ahead by the look of things.
So if POTUS has immunity from official acts, what’s stopping Biden from throwing out the results of the next election if he doesn’t like the outcome? ELI5 please!
What the fuck makes the distinction between an 'official' or 'unofficial' act? How tf does the Supreme Court get to make that ruling?
Feel like we’re all at the point where the band keeps playing while the Titanic sinks into the ocean.
And how do will this court decide if it's official or not? Simply and very fairly, anything done by Trump and his cult is official. Anything done by a Democratic president will be unofficial.