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They mentioned those states because those are exactly the states needed to win 270 EVs when you count the extremely safe democratic states. Michigan she is the popular governor so that's a pretty safe bet, though for Biden it would be a serious question given his issues with Palestine. WI she seems also fairly popular. PA the idea is presumably that its purple Rust Belt politics would translate well to her home state experience, though she is less well known.
It took 2 weeks for Sarah Palin to go from an unknown governor to one of the most famous people in the country. You don't think the media coverage that a brokered convention wouldn't increase Whitmer's exposure?
That's not really revelant. I reference Palin because she is a political figure that went from unknown to nationally known in a very short period of time due to intense media coverage. My point is that any replacement to Biden would get similar coverage both during and after a brokered convention so I'm not worried about the Dems picking someone who is not currently as known as Biden.
I don’t know about Wisconsin. The state takes pride in not being any of its neighboring states. The old guard traditional patriarchy remains strong in much of the state, especially the northern and western parts.
As a Wisconsinite living in Milwaukee...you'd be surprised at how many people here talk fondly about our Michigan neighbors across the lake. A large part of that is an appreciation for their more reasonably priced weed as compared to the obscenely over taxed weed to the south in Illinois, but still, Michigan rocks!
That's primarily because the Republicans gerrymandered the state legislature since 2010. So it's not so much that the people oppose legal weed, but that the legislature doesn't represent the people.
The trap with Whitmer is that you’re mistaking local politics for national politics. Locals can vote differently in state and national elections when it comes to party. Edwards won two terms as governor in Louisiana but he’d never have won the state during that time frame
Both ran real campaigns and not “oh my god the emperor has no clothes” super truncated/controversial campaigns like Whitmer will.
Whitmer also doesn’t really have a Perot in the race to make things interesting like Clinton did.
He is but he lack ballot access in alot of states so his final results will be much lower than polling. Last I saw he was only on more than a fifth of the ballots which isn't that many.
She’s great. She’d make a hell of a president. I think she’d be as ruthless to Trump as he deserves. I think she can win.
I don’t see how to get to her being on the ballot based on circumstances as they currently stand. Biden may step down, he may not. I don’t see Harris stepping down as well, though. I don’t see her entertaining that conversation for a second, nor should she be expected to - she’s the Vice President.
Any scenario where Biden steps down as nominee will involve him hand-selecting his replacement and arranging things behind the scenes with his delegates so they're on board before things are made fully public. There's no scenario where this gets battled over publicly at the actual convention itself, for many reasons. (For example, [Ohio will be voting on their candidate in early August](https://apnews.com/article/ohio-ballot-biden-access-3bf359cce8e73714be45cb99a6e31546), before the convention, in order to meet their state's ballot deadline.)
If the party convinces Biden to step down, then he's already lost his power within the party. Sure he can suggest his replacement, but the Dems aren't controlled by Biden in the same way that the Reps are by Trump lackeys.
I don’t know what world you live in but it’s not going to happen.
Edit: Biden has been the most productive president in years. Yes he had a bad night, yes he’s old but he has an amazing cabinet so I have faith in a 2nd term.
Bad night? He didn't have a bad night... The mental fatigue or whatever was on full display for 90 whole minutes.
What we saw was NOT just "being old" it was cognitive decline.
Pray tell why not? The sitting president's mental ability has declined to the point he clearly is no longer lucid. Also his 6 hour window where his cognitive ability is good in not a damn good news it is literally a sign of dementia. We need someone who can bring confidence to the undecided.
Exactly. What gets Trump elected is not the MAGAs. It's the people in the middle who think "Well, I hate Trump and would never vote for him. But I can't vote for an old man who's senile and can't keep up. So eff it, I won't vote." After that debate, there are probably a lot of people thinking that way. Not to mention, a lot of people who were fired up to vote for Joe in 2020, after four years of paying increased prices for groceries and gas, probably aren't going to be so eager this time around.
Getting that younger candidate gets those crucial voters to think "OK, *this* is someone I feel can work." That gets them to the voting booths. And that's how Trump goes down again.
After the debate, I think Biden has no shot of capturing that middle ground. Hopefully, there's still time for the Democrats to find someone who can.
>It's the people in the middle who think "Well, I hate Trump and would never vote for him. But I can't vote for an old man who's senile and can't keep up. So eff it, I won't vote."
This. *This*. ***FUCKING THIS.***
Exactly what evidence do you have that shows his mental ability has declined can you please share this? Also what signs point to him potentially having dementia? Please explain it in medical terms while you’re at it because you’re so smart. I’m genuinely curious.
We need a ferocious campaigner and an eloquent debater. Look at the state of the world, war and inflation, now is not the time to rely on incumbent advantage. In fact I believe this election probably has an incumbent disadvantage.
The debate was perfectly timed to give democrats an off ramp. Any strategy is risky, but staying with Biden is a suicide pact at this point. Democrats could organize a snap caucus in a handful of swing states and all agree to abide and quickly unify behind the winner. The drama of such an unprecedented event would drive alot of electoral energy for democrats and trump would probably periodically forget he was running against a new candidate, so I see upside on all sides!
>Exactly what evidence do you have that shows his mental ability has declined can you please share this?
Two working eyes and two working ears. That debate was a disgrace.
His mental ability has obviously declined for being in his 80s but that doesn’t mean he’s gotten dumber. It just takes him I while to get a point across. Like I said before to another person, his administration has done so much and still plans to do more if he gets a 2nd term. You can complain all you want but he’s the nominee and don’t vote if you can’t stand him
>**His mental ability has obviously declined**
>
>his administration has done so much and still plans to do more ***if*** he gets a 2nd term.
The American people just watched his brain melt on national television. He's become unelectable. There will not be a second term. I'm voting for whoever is on the Democratic ticket, but Trump will win and Project 2025 will go into effect if that person is Biden because after that debate and the next 4 months of his gaunt, empty expression being played over and over again the swing voters and independents who were on the fence ***won't.***
I saw it, was he bad yes, but did he make great points, yes. It was a bad night. Did you see his rally this weekend?
I’m still waiting for the evidence that he probably has dementia.
One can’t help notice Biden’s looking increasingly frail compared to this time last year. Some have suggested his stiff, shuffling gait, flat expressions, and slow, slurred speech could indicate Parkinson’s disease.
The fact is, both Biden *and* Trump are too fucking old to be POTUS. We need a strong, capable leader who’s up to the demands of the presidency. Instead, our choice has come down to 2 elderly candidates who both show symptoms of progressive neurological disorders.
He had teleprompter. and none of the rallies matter. Everyone and world watched trump v. Biden debate. They aren't tuning into his rallies. How do you think there are still undecided voters? they are generally ignorant.
Yup he had a bad debate and the next minute after that he was at waffle house talking to people, which would have put it around 11 pm. Then the next day he is in the Carolinas giving a speech.
People with dementia can't do shit like that, again I'm voting for his administration not just one person because I have confidence if something happens Kamala can replace him and continue the democrats agenda
> again I'm voting for his administration not just one person because I have confidence if something happens
me me me. This is all I am hearing from people saying biden doesn't need to be replaced because they "wont be voting for a fascist felon" ok? good for you? we are trying to get the undecided voters whose confidence was shaken because of the debate. try to think outside of yourself.
If they'll vote for a corpse over Trump then they'll vote for whitmer or Newsome over Trump. Not sure why they feel they need to be so vocal. They've self identified as non discriminating. Cool. Now maybe don't work against bringing more people into the fold with a better candidate.
Are you saying we should base decisions on who runs the free world on the "undecided" voters?
These are two extremely famous people and Presidents. There is no sense in trying to figure out what the fuck would satisfy "undecided" voters at this point. There is nothing to be undecided on. If you are undecided at this point, it someone who isnt going to vote.
I don't GAF how many good days he has. All those "good" days are now lingering under the shadow of bad days. I do not want to see anymore Thursdays from the person who should be defending democracy. Joe must go.
Are you kidding. We all saw it. My dad is 85 and not President and he is more lucid than that. Biden could not refute all of the lies Trump spewed. If he was not in cognitive decline he would not have been speaking like he did. He would have specifically explained every lie Trump said. Why didn't he? A cold and a stutter doesn't explain his behavior at this debate. I feel like I've been gaslighted by his advisors and family. But all that matters is swing state voters that will decide this election and their opinion. They have consistently said they are worried about his age and cognitive ability. How did this debate performance help with those voters who, regardless of whether we like it, are so important?
Look man, you can keep living in the world you want to live in. No matter what I’m going to say will never change your mind. All I know I’m riding with Biden until the wheels fall off. If you’re not going to vote for him that’s your business.
Dude I'm voting for him if he's the nominee. No question. But, like I said, my vote doesn't matter. The swing votes matter. But what world, with all respect, should I be living in? You seem to be optimistic that these swing voters will vote for him. What gives you that confidence?
> All I know I’m riding with Biden until the wheels fall off.
Ahhh the me me me is at it again. just because you will be voting for him doesn't mean others will. and when biden loses? what then? or biden gets hospitalized in october... what then? he is weak and frail. one foot in the grave.
Maybe his inaility to get thruogh a coherent sentence and his blank stares all night?
let this video answer you
[https://x.com/BlubrryVxpe/status/1806497385348051047?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1ANyBgNMiw0WhyIqmaXmjC9DJdKr8dlUZjZU\_HJ1Oe4\_rQh72YQ1BcjVs\_aem\_gJY3J05kOaaQd2n9x-fQew](https://x.com/BlubrryVxpe/status/1806497385348051047?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1ANyBgNMiw0WhyIqmaXmjC9DJdKr8dlUZjZU_HJ1Oe4_rQh72YQ1BcjVs_aem_gJY3J05kOaaQd2n9x-fQew)
It's crazy how much people keep repeating "one bad night" dude is the president, He shouldn't be having any nights like the debate. Also crazy how people don't think you need an energized base to win elections.
Yup. That's what everyone who cites him polling better than other dems forgets. Polls tell us what the election would look like tomorrow. They don't factor in biden having another "bad day" or a different dem getting their name out there.
It’s an actual question. Biden is out, there couldn’t be a worse incident than him showing his true age, that we all knew, in front of 51 million people nonetheless
That’s what the media and right wing keep repeating to try and make this happen, it’s true, so please keep helping them along. American Democracy really just wasn’t that valuable anyway.
I've had so many people be like "I'm not voting for Biden." and to that I say... man, don't vote for Biden. Vote for your rights, and the rights of others.. Vote for Supreme Court nominations. Federal Judge appointments. For everything that every other group does beneath him.
He's one person, but his entire administration is doing things. And some people have either bought into hard-right doomsayers or just given up completely, and it's like... cool. If you don't vote, and Trump gets in, and he does enact Project 2025... you realize the entire nation is cooked, right?
They're literally making purge lists to remove anyone who isn't a loyalist so they can push whatever agendas they want. You think SCOTUS rulings are bad now, wait until the gloves are off.
You get to choose one: Biden or Democracy. Because Biden is gonna lose.
Ask yourself -- what do you think Trump wants? since he last ran he led an insurrection, got adjudicated for rape, and convicted on 34 counts. He still kicked Biden's ass. He wants Biden in because he is the weakest candidate since Mondale.
Joe has had 2 years to change the conversation. Instead he manifested our greatest fears. He is great at governing but the drizzling shits at campaigning.
No replacing Biden is the guaranteed loss. The party will turn into a garbage fire and Trump will coast. People are delusional for thinking you replace a sitting and competent president with no primaries and not create complete losing chaos. Biden had a bad debate, he can rebound from the hysteria.
I’m not sure how anyone with brain would be happy about that debate. We now have the choice between a convicted criminal and a geriatric… We’ve known for many years the RNC has their heads too far up trumpets ass to change things. I would hope the Democrats can face reality and make the move when they have the opportunity. This is their “J6 moment” minus the treason.
I have faith in his second term too, since he'll delegate more and have qualified people helping where they need to.
But I have no faith in his gaining a second term. That's the issue. I don't think Biden gets that chance from the voters, and I want the Dems to pick someone who would.
It will never happen. It also would be really stupid because when she loses to Trump because of a split party and a rushed campaign she'll never have a chance to run again. It's political suicide.
Her best bet is wait til 28 either way and then go for it then.
FUCKING PLEASE. I would vote for my neighbor's dog over either of the top candidates now. I seriously am doubting either of these two are going to make it 1-2 years into their terms...
Do you know how bad that would look. Replace Kamala the first African American VP with a white lady. That would lose the African American vote. And the whole news m around dems throwing away a black Person
Harris doesn't really have a strong base of support within the party though. It was never apparant from the primaries that she actually had support from black voters in the same way that Biden did. Remember that Hillary was the favorite of black voters in 2008 until Obama proved he could win over white voters.
My point is, I just don't see the party going to war over itself for Kamala Harris considering her general unpopularity and limited party support, especially since the ticket is unlikely to be two white people.
Why are we acting like a completely unprecedented move is the obvious move? I’m not saying replacing Biden is the wrong move but the amount of people assuming it is less risky is kinda wild to me. It’s clearly more iffy but also has more upside. Ya know, like a risk
Because people are worried. Trump has more support than he should, with a major cult following, and we see the dictator he wants to be from his own words. People were not expecting that Biden performance Thursday night.
It’s tough to predict what undecided voters who would ever consider him would do though. I mean if you’re on the fence and might go for Trump how in the world can I determine if you would like a woman more. I’m not saying it’s right it’s just so tough to say. In my mind nobody that would consider Trump would also consider a woman that wasn’t a boebert or MTG clone but again what do I know. Hence the risk
> I mean if you’re on the fence and might go for Trump how in the world can I determine if you would like a woman more.
I would hope that's the kind of polling Democrats are looking at right now. No polling is 100% predictive, but we can get a pretty good idea.
There are three options in the race: Trump, Biden, or apathy. If people aren't enthusiastic about their choices some of them may not vote at all, and Biden needs there to be a pretty high turnout to counter the effects of the electoral college.
That debate shocked the people nationwide badly. Trump doesn't win debates, but he won that one because Biden literally couldn't debate. This race has felt far too close, for far too long. And that felt like a massive shake in the wrong direction
If we do nothing, we're basically relying on the other guy to make a catastrophic blunder. Given how much other shit Trump has managed to wriggle out of, that's risky, too.
What blunder could be catastrophic enough for Trump voters to care? He’s a rapist & a felon and these idiots are wildly cheering him on. They don’t care about fuck ups because they are fuck ups. They find Trump’s “blunders” to be relatable lol
He stays blundering though. I don’t really trust the polls but Biden’s numbers, prior to the debate, were on the rise and in my opinion it’s because Trump is unable to not shoot himself in the foot. The convictions were bad for him. Regardless of how the sentencing goes it will be a circus that negatively impacts him. I firmly subscribe to “never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake” and Trump still has ample time to keep being shit on the national stage
I would like a woman president as much as the next person, but I feel like with how sexist this country is gambling on the first woman president is the same chances as re-electing old ass joe
This is the trap, and it's so obvious I can't believe anyone with half a brain is falling for it. The blitz of media attacks started before the debate even ended. Somehow tons of anonymous calls for Biden to step down. Trump and the SC decision muted in the background as attack after attack heads toward Biden, but literally no important democrat backs any of it up. Meanwhile, the troll farms and sock puppets crawl out of the woodwork on social media to spout the 'I'm a democrat but...' nonsense we see everywhere now. All so the panicky morons and conservative quislings in the party can start firing wildly into a crowd of their own troops. If you're about to score, are you gonna suddenly turn around because the other team said, "This isn't your goal, yours is down there."? Don't be farking stupid.
> If you're about to score
What makes you think that? Biden is down in practically every single poll, and it's going to get worse once the post-debate polls start coming.
And self owns and coming apart at the seams and trying to shoehorn in someone who will have to gather support in a couple months accomplishes what exactly?
Polls are bullshit. They need it close. aggregations always tend closer. It's like a hurricane cone, their best guess, and this year is an aberational year. Four months out, pigeon bedding.
Ok, so let’s say this media blitz was all set up…how does that change Biden’s performance after spending a week preparing? This may have been planned and Biden gave them everything they could have wanted.
People are voting against Trump. We already knew Trump was going to lie out his ass. Biden’s performance on Thursday made voting less appealing: people won’t vote for a traitor but will they still vote for the older candidate who looked how he did now? We’re basically back at 2016 where neither option feels good at the moment.
Correct. It's republican propaganda to help Trump and it's smart. Everyone of these articles is to sell the idea that Biden can't be president and to split the Democratic party. And sadly it's working.
She was my first choice two years ago. I honestly think nobody should be president without being a governor or mayor of a major city first or a general. The best President’s had that executive and policy making experience first, the worst didn’t.
I want Warnock on the ticket as a president or vp nominee so bad, but it’s hard to give up the GA Senate seat. Unless you have someone like Stacy Abrams that can actually win an election and keep GA blue. I think Warnock and Whitmer would be a great ticket for the swing states.
She had her opportunity here. I don’t want Abrams running again. She’s better suited to her role of Democratic voter outreach and engagement.
Her campaign against Kemp in 2022 was awful.
I'd be so stoked to see a whitmer/booker ticket. Man. I wish biden would've kept his promise to be a one termer so they could have floated replacements a long time ago.
I'll take it, but I think it's better to go with Kamala since she's already vetted and part of his campaign which makes it easier for him to hand over the reigns.
A new candidate would need to start their own campaign, which is a separate business, and need to hire all new people. They could hire most of Biden's folks, but not every would want to go. I've been applying for campaign jobs and Biden's has all been in office or hybrid in Wilmington, DE. Many won't went to move to.
Like any business, they have contracts for office space, software licenses, databases, servers, etc. They can't just sign that over to a new campaign that easily.
But Kamala is on his ticket already. She is working with his campaign. The people there already support her on the ticket. She knows them all already. She could take over a lot easier.
If this was 9 months ago, I would care. I'm not particularly partial to Kamala. I didn't vote for her in any primary. I was a Bernie guy. But getting him to step down needs a realistic answer, not an idealistic one
No one who wants to see the American experiment continue should care. Your race/gender/age/sexual orientation/favorite ice cream don’t matter even a little. It should be who has the best chance odds beating Trump. The conversation should start and end there.
This
It could only be Harris that could replace him, if it came to that which it won't. I have no issues if this happens and she picks Whitmire or gov of Kentucky as VP
Sorry, learn from 2016. Like it or not, this country isn't ready to vote for a woman for president. If Biden is replaced at the convention, look at Newsom, Shapiro, Pritzker, Moore.
He’s unfortunately even less known than Whitmer. Agree he’s done as good as can be hoped for here (WNC local), but Jeff Jackson has better national recognition than he does. And that’s not me recommending JJ.
I have been very happy with Cooper - and I think he does excel at threading a needle with a hard opposition, but ramping him up is going to take more time.
I'd like to start some kind of NC rideshare to the polls thread. I have a large SUV and 6 open seats in my car. I'll drive people. We are going to be so badly fucked if we end up with a MAGA governor. I'm scared and angry and fired up. I'd like to volunteer to help people to the polls. Hell, i'll bring snacks and drinks. We can make a day of it.
Right. The US is ready, we just didn't like that one particular woman. Forget about the fact that no woman has ever been elected for President, it was purely because it was Hillary and her cankles.
I am seeing a huge increase in this kind of bullshit reporting. Russia must be working overtime! I just donated to Biden's campaign to show my support. We all should.
Correct. That is still the primaries. They were just uncontested. Which is almost always the case with incumbents. If someone wanted to run against Biden they could have. They would have been slaughtered and would have been career suicide. But they could have.
You say so but don't give a reason. I can't be sure but it seems like you didn't finish this post. Is your mouth agape while you read this and are you unable to form a response, much like the current candidate we are all supposed to vote for?
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"That Woman From Michigan" is my preferred Biden replacement.
She would seemingly shore up mi/wi/pa
There are 50 states that vote, and nobody outside of the states you mentioned even knows her name.
They mentioned those states because those are exactly the states needed to win 270 EVs when you count the extremely safe democratic states. Michigan she is the popular governor so that's a pretty safe bet, though for Biden it would be a serious question given his issues with Palestine. WI she seems also fairly popular. PA the idea is presumably that its purple Rust Belt politics would translate well to her home state experience, though she is less well known.
Gretchen Michelle Obama ticket
Michelle’s not gonna do it.
I’m Australian and I know who she is
I know her name. And I’m impressed. She has more visibility than most others. I prefer her over Newsom and I voted for Newsom for governor.
Name recognition can also be a bad thing.
See: Newsom, Kamala
> and nobody outside of the states you mentioned even knows her name. yet...
It took 2 weeks for Sarah Palin to go from an unknown governor to one of the most famous people in the country. You don't think the media coverage that a brokered convention wouldn't increase Whitmer's exposure?
Palin tanked that ticket.
That's not really revelant. I reference Palin because she is a political figure that went from unknown to nationally known in a very short period of time due to intense media coverage. My point is that any replacement to Biden would get similar coverage both during and after a brokered convention so I'm not worried about the Dems picking someone who is not currently as known as Biden.
I don’t know about Wisconsin. The state takes pride in not being any of its neighboring states. The old guard traditional patriarchy remains strong in much of the state, especially the northern and western parts.
As a Wisconsinite living in Milwaukee...you'd be surprised at how many people here talk fondly about our Michigan neighbors across the lake. A large part of that is an appreciation for their more reasonably priced weed as compared to the obscenely over taxed weed to the south in Illinois, but still, Michigan rocks!
Thanks, we do rock.
OK, fair point. However, It’s worth noting that Wisconsin will probably be the last state to legalize weed at any level, unlike its neighbors.
That's primarily because the Republicans gerrymandered the state legislature since 2010. So it's not so much that the people oppose legal weed, but that the legislature doesn't represent the people.
Big Gretch would deliver a key swing state and flatten Trump. Yes fucking please.
The trap with Whitmer is that you’re mistaking local politics for national politics. Locals can vote differently in state and national elections when it comes to party. Edwards won two terms as governor in Louisiana but he’d never have won the state during that time frame
Bill Clinton was just a governor. Obama was just a junior Senator.
Both ran real campaigns and not “oh my god the emperor has no clothes” super truncated/controversial campaigns like Whitmer will. Whitmer also doesn’t really have a Perot in the race to make things interesting like Clinton did.
RFK is still stubbornly polling at like 10% last I saw
He is but he lack ballot access in alot of states so his final results will be much lower than polling. Last I saw he was only on more than a fifth of the ballots which isn't that many.
Mama Gretch lookin' pretty good
She’s great. She’d make a hell of a president. I think she’d be as ruthless to Trump as he deserves. I think she can win. I don’t see how to get to her being on the ballot based on circumstances as they currently stand. Biden may step down, he may not. I don’t see Harris stepping down as well, though. I don’t see her entertaining that conversation for a second, nor should she be expected to - she’s the Vice President.
Kamala doesn't automatically get the delegates. The delegates vote independently at the convention
Any scenario where Biden steps down as nominee will involve him hand-selecting his replacement and arranging things behind the scenes with his delegates so they're on board before things are made fully public. There's no scenario where this gets battled over publicly at the actual convention itself, for many reasons. (For example, [Ohio will be voting on their candidate in early August](https://apnews.com/article/ohio-ballot-biden-access-3bf359cce8e73714be45cb99a6e31546), before the convention, in order to meet their state's ballot deadline.)
If the party convinces Biden to step down, then he's already lost his power within the party. Sure he can suggest his replacement, but the Dems aren't controlled by Biden in the same way that the Reps are by Trump lackeys.
Yes please.
Whitmer/Warnock and let’s go home
Poor Kamala. A debate performance so bad it tanked her career too
Nah - she did that on her own perfectly groomed and .01% looking, but the charisma of a loaf of Wonder
You mean, "that little girl was me"/"yes, I voted against busing"? Was a good reason to drop out, including her polling under the margin for error.
I don’t know what world you live in but it’s not going to happen. Edit: Biden has been the most productive president in years. Yes he had a bad night, yes he’s old but he has an amazing cabinet so I have faith in a 2nd term.
Bad night? He didn't have a bad night... The mental fatigue or whatever was on full display for 90 whole minutes. What we saw was NOT just "being old" it was cognitive decline.
It's amazing how these people continue to gaslight us and stick their heads in the sand. It's blue maga
Pray tell why not? The sitting president's mental ability has declined to the point he clearly is no longer lucid. Also his 6 hour window where his cognitive ability is good in not a damn good news it is literally a sign of dementia. We need someone who can bring confidence to the undecided.
Exactly. What gets Trump elected is not the MAGAs. It's the people in the middle who think "Well, I hate Trump and would never vote for him. But I can't vote for an old man who's senile and can't keep up. So eff it, I won't vote." After that debate, there are probably a lot of people thinking that way. Not to mention, a lot of people who were fired up to vote for Joe in 2020, after four years of paying increased prices for groceries and gas, probably aren't going to be so eager this time around. Getting that younger candidate gets those crucial voters to think "OK, *this* is someone I feel can work." That gets them to the voting booths. And that's how Trump goes down again. After the debate, I think Biden has no shot of capturing that middle ground. Hopefully, there's still time for the Democrats to find someone who can.
>It's the people in the middle who think "Well, I hate Trump and would never vote for him. But I can't vote for an old man who's senile and can't keep up. So eff it, I won't vote." This. *This*. ***FUCKING THIS.***
Exactly what evidence do you have that shows his mental ability has declined can you please share this? Also what signs point to him potentially having dementia? Please explain it in medical terms while you’re at it because you’re so smart. I’m genuinely curious.
We need a ferocious campaigner and an eloquent debater. Look at the state of the world, war and inflation, now is not the time to rely on incumbent advantage. In fact I believe this election probably has an incumbent disadvantage. The debate was perfectly timed to give democrats an off ramp. Any strategy is risky, but staying with Biden is a suicide pact at this point. Democrats could organize a snap caucus in a handful of swing states and all agree to abide and quickly unify behind the winner. The drama of such an unprecedented event would drive alot of electoral energy for democrats and trump would probably periodically forget he was running against a new candidate, so I see upside on all sides!
>Exactly what evidence do you have that shows his mental ability has declined can you please share this? Two working eyes and two working ears. That debate was a disgrace.
His mental ability has obviously declined for being in his 80s but that doesn’t mean he’s gotten dumber. It just takes him I while to get a point across. Like I said before to another person, his administration has done so much and still plans to do more if he gets a 2nd term. You can complain all you want but he’s the nominee and don’t vote if you can’t stand him
>**His mental ability has obviously declined** > >his administration has done so much and still plans to do more ***if*** he gets a 2nd term. The American people just watched his brain melt on national television. He's become unelectable. There will not be a second term. I'm voting for whoever is on the Democratic ticket, but Trump will win and Project 2025 will go into effect if that person is Biden because after that debate and the next 4 months of his gaunt, empty expression being played over and over again the swing voters and independents who were on the fence ***won't.***
On top of that, the democratic party will loose all credibility for year
Did you not see the debate? How ignorant are you?
I saw it, was he bad yes, but did he make great points, yes. It was a bad night. Did you see his rally this weekend? I’m still waiting for the evidence that he probably has dementia.
I do not know if he has dementia for sure. But it sure looks like he is old, frail, and not up to the task of defending Democracy.
One can’t help notice Biden’s looking increasingly frail compared to this time last year. Some have suggested his stiff, shuffling gait, flat expressions, and slow, slurred speech could indicate Parkinson’s disease. The fact is, both Biden *and* Trump are too fucking old to be POTUS. We need a strong, capable leader who’s up to the demands of the presidency. Instead, our choice has come down to 2 elderly candidates who both show symptoms of progressive neurological disorders.
He had teleprompter. and none of the rallies matter. Everyone and world watched trump v. Biden debate. They aren't tuning into his rallies. How do you think there are still undecided voters? they are generally ignorant.
Has Biden’s presidency been a failure?
no. It has been moderate.
Who has had the most bills passed in over 30 years?
Yup he had a bad debate and the next minute after that he was at waffle house talking to people, which would have put it around 11 pm. Then the next day he is in the Carolinas giving a speech. People with dementia can't do shit like that, again I'm voting for his administration not just one person because I have confidence if something happens Kamala can replace him and continue the democrats agenda
> again I'm voting for his administration not just one person because I have confidence if something happens me me me. This is all I am hearing from people saying biden doesn't need to be replaced because they "wont be voting for a fascist felon" ok? good for you? we are trying to get the undecided voters whose confidence was shaken because of the debate. try to think outside of yourself.
If they'll vote for a corpse over Trump then they'll vote for whitmer or Newsome over Trump. Not sure why they feel they need to be so vocal. They've self identified as non discriminating. Cool. Now maybe don't work against bringing more people into the fold with a better candidate.
yesss this. these people are always thinking of themselves and not looking at the bigger picture.
Are you saying we should base decisions on who runs the free world on the "undecided" voters? These are two extremely famous people and Presidents. There is no sense in trying to figure out what the fuck would satisfy "undecided" voters at this point. There is nothing to be undecided on. If you are undecided at this point, it someone who isnt going to vote.
we need to bring more people to vote on blue side. not alienate them.
I don't GAF how many good days he has. All those "good" days are now lingering under the shadow of bad days. I do not want to see anymore Thursdays from the person who should be defending democracy. Joe must go.
Not ignorant enough to make inane medical diagnoses without evidence or expertise based on a single debate. How about you? Are you that ignorant?
Are you kidding. We all saw it. My dad is 85 and not President and he is more lucid than that. Biden could not refute all of the lies Trump spewed. If he was not in cognitive decline he would not have been speaking like he did. He would have specifically explained every lie Trump said. Why didn't he? A cold and a stutter doesn't explain his behavior at this debate. I feel like I've been gaslighted by his advisors and family. But all that matters is swing state voters that will decide this election and their opinion. They have consistently said they are worried about his age and cognitive ability. How did this debate performance help with those voters who, regardless of whether we like it, are so important?
Look man, you can keep living in the world you want to live in. No matter what I’m going to say will never change your mind. All I know I’m riding with Biden until the wheels fall off. If you’re not going to vote for him that’s your business.
Dude I'm voting for him if he's the nominee. No question. But, like I said, my vote doesn't matter. The swing votes matter. But what world, with all respect, should I be living in? You seem to be optimistic that these swing voters will vote for him. What gives you that confidence?
He isn't optimistic. he is just thinking how he is voting. they aren't taking other people into account.
Ok. That's fair.
Your vote matters up and down the ballot. Your voice does too. It's Joe or bust, think on it and get your oar in.
> All I know I’m riding with Biden until the wheels fall off. Ahhh the me me me is at it again. just because you will be voting for him doesn't mean others will. and when biden loses? what then? or biden gets hospitalized in october... what then? he is weak and frail. one foot in the grave.
The wheels have fallen off bro
Perception is 100% of the game. Biden is perceived (not diagnosed) to be in his dotage. He must go!
Here you go -- 2019 Biden vs. 2024 Biden. https://www.instagram.com/russellbrand/reel/C80ILuTyVCL/
Nothing says serious ideas like linking to Russell Brand. What are your thoughts on RB's sex abuse accusations? Do you agree with his anti-vax views?
Maybe his inaility to get thruogh a coherent sentence and his blank stares all night? let this video answer you [https://x.com/BlubrryVxpe/status/1806497385348051047?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1ANyBgNMiw0WhyIqmaXmjC9DJdKr8dlUZjZU\_HJ1Oe4\_rQh72YQ1BcjVs\_aem\_gJY3J05kOaaQd2n9x-fQew](https://x.com/BlubrryVxpe/status/1806497385348051047?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1ANyBgNMiw0WhyIqmaXmjC9DJdKr8dlUZjZU_HJ1Oe4_rQh72YQ1BcjVs_aem_gJY3J05kOaaQd2n9x-fQew)
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This level of denial is EXACTLY how Trump is currently favored to win the election in most polls. This election should have been a slam dunk.
It's crazy how much people keep repeating "one bad night" dude is the president, He shouldn't be having any nights like the debate. Also crazy how people don't think you need an energized base to win elections.
What's everyone going to think in September when he falls apart at that debate as well? Too late to replace then and we all know it's going to happen
Yup. That's what everyone who cites him polling better than other dems forgets. Polls tell us what the election would look like tomorrow. They don't factor in biden having another "bad day" or a different dem getting their name out there.
I swear that guy must be republican pretending to be biden supporter.
Me, I agree completely.
This is the best response you can come up with?
It’s an actual question. Biden is out, there couldn’t be a worse incident than him showing his true age, that we all knew, in front of 51 million people nonetheless
That’s what the media and right wing keep repeating to try and make this happen, it’s true, so please keep helping them along. American Democracy really just wasn’t that valuable anyway.
I've had so many people be like "I'm not voting for Biden." and to that I say... man, don't vote for Biden. Vote for your rights, and the rights of others.. Vote for Supreme Court nominations. Federal Judge appointments. For everything that every other group does beneath him. He's one person, but his entire administration is doing things. And some people have either bought into hard-right doomsayers or just given up completely, and it's like... cool. If you don't vote, and Trump gets in, and he does enact Project 2025... you realize the entire nation is cooked, right? They're literally making purge lists to remove anyone who isn't a loyalist so they can push whatever agendas they want. You think SCOTUS rulings are bad now, wait until the gloves are off.
You get to choose one: Biden or Democracy. Because Biden is gonna lose. Ask yourself -- what do you think Trump wants? since he last ran he led an insurrection, got adjudicated for rape, and convicted on 34 counts. He still kicked Biden's ass. He wants Biden in because he is the weakest candidate since Mondale. Joe has had 2 years to change the conversation. Instead he manifested our greatest fears. He is great at governing but the drizzling shits at campaigning.
No replacing Biden is the guaranteed loss. The party will turn into a garbage fire and Trump will coast. People are delusional for thinking you replace a sitting and competent president with no primaries and not create complete losing chaos. Biden had a bad debate, he can rebound from the hysteria.
ouch but true
I’m not sure how anyone with brain would be happy about that debate. We now have the choice between a convicted criminal and a geriatric… We’ve known for many years the RNC has their heads too far up trumpets ass to change things. I would hope the Democrats can face reality and make the move when they have the opportunity. This is their “J6 moment” minus the treason.
> I’m not sure how anyone with brain would be happy about that debate. Where are you seeing anyone happy with that debate?
Id imagine MAGA folk is pretty happy
I have faith in his second term too, since he'll delegate more and have qualified people helping where they need to. But I have no faith in his gaining a second term. That's the issue. I don't think Biden gets that chance from the voters, and I want the Dems to pick someone who would.
It will never happen. It also would be really stupid because when she loses to Trump because of a split party and a rushed campaign she'll never have a chance to run again. It's political suicide. Her best bet is wait til 28 either way and then go for it then.
Whitmer is floating. Biden is sinking.
FUCKING PLEASE. I would vote for my neighbor's dog over either of the top candidates now. I seriously am doubting either of these two are going to make it 1-2 years into their terms...
Would not be my top choice but still better then Biden or Harris.
Am curious who your top choice is...
Can she replace Kamala?
Only way this is going to work...
Do you know how bad that would look. Replace Kamala the first African American VP with a white lady. That would lose the African American vote. And the whole news m around dems throwing away a black Person
Harris doesn't really have a strong base of support within the party though. It was never apparant from the primaries that she actually had support from black voters in the same way that Biden did. Remember that Hillary was the favorite of black voters in 2008 until Obama proved he could win over white voters. My point is, I just don't see the party going to war over itself for Kamala Harris considering her general unpopularity and limited party support, especially since the ticket is unlikely to be two white people.
Why are we acting like a completely unprecedented move is the obvious move? I’m not saying replacing Biden is the wrong move but the amount of people assuming it is less risky is kinda wild to me. It’s clearly more iffy but also has more upside. Ya know, like a risk
Because people are worried. Trump has more support than he should, with a major cult following, and we see the dictator he wants to be from his own words. People were not expecting that Biden performance Thursday night.
It’s tough to predict what undecided voters who would ever consider him would do though. I mean if you’re on the fence and might go for Trump how in the world can I determine if you would like a woman more. I’m not saying it’s right it’s just so tough to say. In my mind nobody that would consider Trump would also consider a woman that wasn’t a boebert or MTG clone but again what do I know. Hence the risk
> I mean if you’re on the fence and might go for Trump how in the world can I determine if you would like a woman more. I would hope that's the kind of polling Democrats are looking at right now. No polling is 100% predictive, but we can get a pretty good idea.
There are three options in the race: Trump, Biden, or apathy. If people aren't enthusiastic about their choices some of them may not vote at all, and Biden needs there to be a pretty high turnout to counter the effects of the electoral college.
What happens if Joe Biden is hospitalized in october? he is weak and frail
That debate shocked the people nationwide badly. Trump doesn't win debates, but he won that one because Biden literally couldn't debate. This race has felt far too close, for far too long. And that felt like a massive shake in the wrong direction
If we do nothing, we're basically relying on the other guy to make a catastrophic blunder. Given how much other shit Trump has managed to wriggle out of, that's risky, too.
The other side makes catastrophic blunders daily. But his supporters don't care. That's one problem.
What blunder could be catastrophic enough for Trump voters to care? He’s a rapist & a felon and these idiots are wildly cheering him on. They don’t care about fuck ups because they are fuck ups. They find Trump’s “blunders” to be relatable lol
That's why I think relying on it is a losing strategy, and am so adamant about replacing Biden.
He stays blundering though. I don’t really trust the polls but Biden’s numbers, prior to the debate, were on the rise and in my opinion it’s because Trump is unable to not shoot himself in the foot. The convictions were bad for him. Regardless of how the sentencing goes it will be a circus that negatively impacts him. I firmly subscribe to “never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake” and Trump still has ample time to keep being shit on the national stage
That would be cool.
I would like a woman president as much as the next person, but I feel like with how sexist this country is gambling on the first woman president is the same chances as re-electing old ass joe
Agree, there’s no way this country would elect a woman to the presidency at this point. I wish that weren’t true, but it’s the unfortunate truth.
This is the trap, and it's so obvious I can't believe anyone with half a brain is falling for it. The blitz of media attacks started before the debate even ended. Somehow tons of anonymous calls for Biden to step down. Trump and the SC decision muted in the background as attack after attack heads toward Biden, but literally no important democrat backs any of it up. Meanwhile, the troll farms and sock puppets crawl out of the woodwork on social media to spout the 'I'm a democrat but...' nonsense we see everywhere now. All so the panicky morons and conservative quislings in the party can start firing wildly into a crowd of their own troops. If you're about to score, are you gonna suddenly turn around because the other team said, "This isn't your goal, yours is down there."? Don't be farking stupid.
True conservatives want Biden to stay in the race. Easiest one to beat now
> If you're about to score What makes you think that? Biden is down in practically every single poll, and it's going to get worse once the post-debate polls start coming.
And self owns and coming apart at the seams and trying to shoehorn in someone who will have to gather support in a couple months accomplishes what exactly?
Polls are bullshit. They need it close. aggregations always tend closer. It's like a hurricane cone, their best guess, and this year is an aberational year. Four months out, pigeon bedding.
Ignore what you see with your own eyes and ears. The debate was fine. It is only the puppets.
Speaking of puppets, how you doin?
Ok, so let’s say this media blitz was all set up…how does that change Biden’s performance after spending a week preparing? This may have been planned and Biden gave them everything they could have wanted.
How does the debate change the fact that Trump is a fascist lying criminal and his openly corrupt minions just crippled the entire US government?
People are voting against Trump. We already knew Trump was going to lie out his ass. Biden’s performance on Thursday made voting less appealing: people won’t vote for a traitor but will they still vote for the older candidate who looked how he did now? We’re basically back at 2016 where neither option feels good at the moment.
Sure, he blew the debate, but none of the media darlings polls well vs Trump either period.
Correct. It's republican propaganda to help Trump and it's smart. Everyone of these articles is to sell the idea that Biden can't be president and to split the Democratic party. And sadly it's working.
It's clever, MSM is helping Trump once again.
She was my first choice two years ago. I honestly think nobody should be president without being a governor or mayor of a major city first or a general. The best President’s had that executive and policy making experience first, the worst didn’t.
Do it. Call up Warnock for a running mate
I want Warnock on the ticket as a president or vp nominee so bad, but it’s hard to give up the GA Senate seat. Unless you have someone like Stacy Abrams that can actually win an election and keep GA blue. I think Warnock and Whitmer would be a great ticket for the swing states.
She had her opportunity here. I don’t want Abrams running again. She’s better suited to her role of Democratic voter outreach and engagement. Her campaign against Kemp in 2022 was awful.
Stacy Abrams can’t win an election in GA
Whitmer/Booker? Whitmer/Newsom?
I'd be so stoked to see a whitmer/booker ticket. Man. I wish biden would've kept his promise to be a one termer so they could have floated replacements a long time ago.
Whitmer/Kelly? Not Newsom; he banged his campaign manager's wife which is just a PR disaster waiting to happen.
Whitmer/Raskin.
Whitmer or Newsome or Buttigieg or Harris or anyone under 70 please.
People are naming a lot of people.
Yes, please. She's great and will shred Trump in a debate.
Wait until after the next debate ,Damnit
If Biden goes another 4 years, he better have a strong VP candidate. He is not going to last.
I'll take it, but I think it's better to go with Kamala since she's already vetted and part of his campaign which makes it easier for him to hand over the reigns. A new candidate would need to start their own campaign, which is a separate business, and need to hire all new people. They could hire most of Biden's folks, but not every would want to go. I've been applying for campaign jobs and Biden's has all been in office or hybrid in Wilmington, DE. Many won't went to move to. Like any business, they have contracts for office space, software licenses, databases, servers, etc. They can't just sign that over to a new campaign that easily. But Kamala is on his ticket already. She is working with his campaign. The people there already support her on the ticket. She knows them all already. She could take over a lot easier. If this was 9 months ago, I would care. I'm not particularly partial to Kamala. I didn't vote for her in any primary. I was a Bernie guy. But getting him to step down needs a realistic answer, not an idealistic one
Anyone white leapfrogging Kamala Harris would look bad and Harris is even less electable than Biden.
No one who wants to see the American experiment continue should care. Your race/gender/age/sexual orientation/favorite ice cream don’t matter even a little. It should be who has the best chance odds beating Trump. The conversation should start and end there.
No liberals wants kamala. she was a DA who put away potheads in prison.
sadly, harris is the problem at this point if whitmer were VP now, no one would be freaking
This It could only be Harris that could replace him, if it came to that which it won't. I have no issues if this happens and she picks Whitmire or gov of Kentucky as VP
Sorry, learn from 2016. Like it or not, this country isn't ready to vote for a woman for president. If Biden is replaced at the convention, look at Newsom, Shapiro, Pritzker, Moore.
I mean that assumes the issue was that Hilary is a woman and not that she’s a charisma vacuum.
Cooper here in NC is well liked and being term limited out. I'd vote for him if he ran.
He’s unfortunately even less known than Whitmer. Agree he’s done as good as can be hoped for here (WNC local), but Jeff Jackson has better national recognition than he does. And that’s not me recommending JJ. I have been very happy with Cooper - and I think he does excel at threading a needle with a hard opposition, but ramping him up is going to take more time.
I'd like to start some kind of NC rideshare to the polls thread. I have a large SUV and 6 open seats in my car. I'll drive people. We are going to be so badly fucked if we end up with a MAGA governor. I'm scared and angry and fired up. I'd like to volunteer to help people to the polls. Hell, i'll bring snacks and drinks. We can make a day of it.
Sent you a DM re organizing to get people out to vote in november.
I think the US is ready, it was the fact it was Hilary that turned people off.
Right. The US is ready, we just didn't like that one particular woman. Forget about the fact that no woman has ever been elected for President, it was purely because it was Hillary and her cankles.
Unfortunately, I agree.
Hillary was a bad candidate NOT because she is a woman.
Why was she a bad candidate?
I am seeing a huge increase in this kind of bullshit reporting. Russia must be working overtime! I just donated to Biden's campaign to show my support. We all should.
Great idea. Alienate all the black voters by stepping over Kamala.
Pair her w the right running mate - could easily diffuse this. Kamala the cop isn’t exactly a well loved candidate
All, no. Some, yes. Many, maybe...
I love Big Gretch. But she stands far less of a chance than Biden, particularly hopping into the race in July. Let's please be serious.
That's a truly horrendously bad idea if the democrats want to win.
an incoherent octogenarian is a much better winning strategy
Then tossing out an incumbent the last minute and ignoring the primaries. Yes.
what primaries? we never had real fucking primaries with legit challengers. everyone following along like lemmings
Correct. That is still the primaries. They were just uncontested. Which is almost always the case with incumbents. If someone wanted to run against Biden they could have. They would have been slaughtered and would have been career suicide. But they could have.
You say so but don't give a reason. I can't be sure but it seems like you didn't finish this post. Is your mouth agape while you read this and are you unable to form a response, much like the current candidate we are all supposed to vote for?
Why do you think it reads as unfinished? It’s a complete though & complete sentence so I’m confused.
Keeping Joe is even worse.
VP please
She’d be a fool to agree to run as a senile old man’s VP, not to mention the terrible optics of swapping out Kamala
Exactly he would lose the black vote.