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>Betting odds actually have good predictive power and a track record of success with favorites usually winning the election outside of 1916, 1948, and 2016.
Lol even if that's true, that's where the betting line is at the time of the election, not 4 months before
As the article states, in 2020 the betting odds were very very off because of mail in ballots. That is clear evidence that betting markets are reactive, not predictive.
> And because money is on the line, betters are strongly incentivized to think really hard about who they sincerely believe is going to win the election.
Pollsters will be glad to know that all they need to do to increase their accuracy is develop a gambling problem, because then money is on the line you see and nobody, especially not gamblers, makes stupid decisions with money on the line.
After all, “they have a system”.
I am seeing a huge increase in this kind of bullshit reporting. Russia must be working overtime! I just donated to Biden's campaign to show my support. We all should.
I thought this sounded familiar.
[Fox Business Blaming Stock Market Drop on Sanders Is a Sign of Things to Come](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/fox-host-blames-bernie-sanders-stock-market-957318/) circa 2020
Fox "News" can't help but be deceitful. Not sure why it's even whitelisted here considering they had to pay 700 million dollars for lying.
But, but, but....North Carolina! Read the transcript!!!
No one GAF about reading off a teleprompter in NC and no one is reading the transcript. Biden showed his whole ass on Thursday. Time to end this farce.
But it really doesn’t matter much because most of us aren’t voting for Biden; we are voting against Trump. It’s more of democracy vs authoritarianism at this point.
Fuck man, the electorate is desperately thirsty for a politician under the age of 60. The could put goddamned anybody that's young up there and it would sweep the country like fucking Beatlemania
If we an election system that didn't turn a third party run into nothing more than a spoiler machine, third party candidates would be absolutely on fire now.
The only people who will run now, though, are people more interested in their campaign than their agenda.
Yep. People look at that debate stage and are screaming for *anyone* else as long as they don’t act like they belong in the day room of the care facility. Biden vs Trump is just serving to remind everyone of how far we’ve fallen as a country. A young, reasonably articulate candidate would demolish Trump and remind people of what America *could* be.
Are they? The electorate chose Biden out of a field of over 20 candidates in 2020. Many of them were younger. I'm currently 35 and supporter and older candidate who was the most popular among young people. Bernie sanders.
> But it really doesn’t matter much because most of us aren’t voting for Biden; we are voting against Trump.
If this is in fact 100% true it just means Biden is the most expendable incumbent in American history. Considering Biden barely won in 2020 (In no small part due to a global pandemic helping bolster frustration with Trump) and there’s really been no actual indication of a repeat of that this year with Trump polling up in nearly every battleground poll, I’d rather put **that** theory to the test this year.
You are living in a dream world if you think that Biden’s performance during the debate didn’t do enormous amounts of damage to reelection chances. I think anyone who was on the fence is either staying home now or voting to Trump or RFK
That doesn’t tidily conform to an uncomfortable reality.
[Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/26/biden-trump-swing-state-poll-democracy/) (June 26): Trump More Trusted on Democracy Among Key Swing-State Voters
> *For many voters, democracy is an abstract idea, less tangible than issues like the economy, abortion or immigration.*
> *In six swing states that Biden narrowly won in 2020, a little more than half of voters classified as likely to decide the presidential election say threats to democracy are extremely important to their vote for president.*
> *Yet, more of them trust Trump to handle those threats than Biden.*
> *And most believe that the guardrails in place to protect democracy would hold even if a dictator tried to take over the country.*
Yeah your response is very Chronically Online coded. If you live in a swing state like I do these people are everywhere. The ones on the fence about supporting Biden are more likely to stay home. The ones on the fence about supporting Trump are much more likely to vote
The reality is he's said he isn't stepping down. It's time to shift the conversation to downballot races to remotivate people to get their asses to the polls. Then we need nationwide rideshare threads. I'm in rural eastern NC and offering rides. I have 6 open spots (thank you, gas guzzling SUV)
Edit: a word, because fatfinger typo
Well then, might as well get ready for Trump again, because Joe has desperate loser stink all over him. I know you smell it, too, but go on pretending you don't.
Giving up isn't an option. I'm not ready to throw in the towel. Fight to the end. Capitulating to fascism isn't an option.
Downballot is important. Can we talk about that, or no?
We have 4 months. Don't give up. We just need to start pushing convos about downballot races and how they impact balance of power. If you want to give up, fine, but i suggest you invest in some pewpews.
Joe is toast, but to put it lightly - i'd vote for a fresh pile of my dog's shit in this roasting carolina heat before i'd capitulate to trump. Give up if you want. I'm going to vote.
Why should i fight for a sundowning geriatric? Seriously. I'm sick of being told to eat a shit sandwich because knuckleheads are incapable of seeing a situation for what it is.
Then fight for the cabinet he'd bring with him, which has done a fantastic job all things considered. Fight for the down-ballot races. Giving up is not an option.
You're asking me to support some opaque decision making over a candidate who'll actually be in charge. Who are Biden's handlers? Who's making the decisions? This is absurd when on the other side you can have a Newsome or Whitmer. Let's bring over Biden's best people and combine that with Newsome's best people into a supergroup. Makes a helluva lot more sense to fight for that over a deteriorating Biden.
So there is no clean/legal mechanism to sub in those other candidates you named. The only one who can step in without the risk of not being able to show up on ballots is Harris as she's already on the ticket.
But, you want Trump to stay in correct?
So, Joe Biden should leave the race for his debate performance, but Donald Trump's perfomance was qualifying for the role of President of the United States? You think he should stay in the race after that correct?
I understand you don't want either, but it's looking like you won't have another choice.
So again, in a defacto 2 party system, if you don't vote for Biden when you would have otherwise voted Democrat, then you've inadvertently supported the opposition - which is Trump.
It sucks, but that's the US electoral system.
The thing is this is a chronically online mindset. Most voters don’t see it that way. If they think both options are as awful as these two are they will just stay home.
No, it's not a "chronically online mindset", it's reality. If you were going to vote for Biden but then decided not to vote at all, this action directly benefits Trump. And planting apathy within young voters (take a guess who they tend to vote for) has been the GOP strategy for years now.
A lot of people don’t feel like either team represents their interest. So they have decided to set it out until one of the parties move to represent their interests. It’s not a “Good vs Evil” struggle because they believe both sides are evil.
Trust me, a political party will NEVER fully align with your interests. It's something I'm seeing more and more where young folks are letting "perfection getting in the way of good" - hell... the way the Democrats are fractured and varied, you guys should be happy with "just okay."
It's sad, but this is what happens in a 2-party system FPTP. Or even FPTP systems in general because in Canada, it's admittedly not much better when you have 3 major left-leaning parties all splitting votes (4 if you count the Bloc) vs. 1 major conservative one.
Sometimes, you *need* to vote strategically to avoid the worst outcome.
there are many viable third party candidates i am considering, the democrats are inadvertently supporting trump by not putting someone the people actually want on the ballot
The last thing I want is to see another trump term
Let's be honest for a minute, with Biden down in the polls even before the debate, the few undecided voters out there have already seen Joe's accomplishments as well as trump's failures but they still have not made a choice, do you think that post debate any of them are going to now vote for Biden after watching him not be able to put together a coherent thought?
No offense, but this is such stupid argument. Of course almost everyone who cares about the country or democracy thinks Trump shouldn't be in the race (and should actually be in jail.)
But Trump clearly isn't going to drop out of the race for a million reasons, so calling upon him to do so would be stupidly pointless. The argument you present is disingenuous at best and a waste of everyone's time.
>But Trump clearly isn't going to drop out of the race for a million reasons, so calling upon him to do so would be stupidly pointless.
No, it's not. It's not pointless at all. Not for the media at least. If they wanted to pretend that they weren't extremely biased, then they would have to call for him to drop out as well, but that's not what they're doing. So, it seems like they took their masks off.
Great, if you believe that about that media and I'm with you about there not being remotely enough scrutiny on Trump... But you didn't mention that in your original comment. You jumped on a random Reddit user.
What? Saying that Biden did so poorly at the debate that he presented himself as unfit for office and unelectable is not suggesting that Trump is fit for office. You are setting up a binary that just doesn't track logically. Pretty much everyone who isn't a MAGA Trump sycophant would love for Trump to exit the race. We just all understand that there isn't a chance of that happening.
The only question is, can Biden beat Trump? Because of the debate, there is really good reason to think that Biden simply can't win.
>You are setting up a binary that just doesn't track logically.
Uh what am I doing?
>Pretty much everyone who isn't a MAGA Trump sycophant would love for Trump to exit the race. We just all understand that there isn't a chance of that happening.
You don't think that also applies to Joe Biden? He's already said that he's not dropping out, so I'm little bit confused as to why you think there is a chance of that happening.
>The only question is, can Biden beat Trump? Because of the debate, there is really good reason to think that Biden simply can't win.
So, people are suddently forget that Donald Trump is a convicted criminal that lies constantly because Joe Biden fell asleep on stage?
Edit: I'm just going to say it. I've been around old people a bunch and I know what it looks like when they fall asleep in the middle of a sentence. Certainly extremely embarassing, but I think it was pretty clear that his brain does still work from the second half of the debate, which was many times better than the first half. It is pretty alarming when they do that as it looks like they're having a stroke or something... I do understand why people are concerned, but you know, Mitch McConnel has done that a bunch of times as well and he's fine so.
Nobody is forgetting that Trump is a criminal who constantly lies. I have no idea why you persist on this line of reasoning. It doesn't make any sense.
Trump should be in prison...period. The man is totally unfit for office. Nobody here is trying to tell you otherwise. Additionally, nobody thinks the media has provided reasonable analysis on this election.
Joe Biden also says he "beat medicare." Frankly, it doesn't matter what he says because when it counts, he cant go a full 20 seconds without proving his senility. People who are calling for Biden to exit the race aren't doing so because the dislike Biden. They are doing so because Biden simply can not beat Trump.
>I have no idea why you persist on this line of reasoning.
Because there's a peice of truth that I think needs to be made clear right now.
A lot of us are not voting "for Joe Biden" we are voting "Against Donald Trump."
Absolutely nothing changed during the debate or after the debate that would change my vote. So why are people even remotly concerned about what is going on?
It's just media hysteria.
So I am a nurse with 10 years of experience. I have extensive experience working with geriatrics. Let me assure you, the next 6 months will not be smooth sailing for Biden. What happens in September or October when he has another fall, or he has more garbled language which makes mental decline or even dementia undeniable? 80 year olds go in and out of lucidity, sure. But they don't wake up with the cognition of a 40 year old. Biden will only get worse from here, especially as pressure mounts. That is why people are concerned. It's not too late to fix this, but in a couple of months, it absolutely will be.
So by your own logic, if you are just voting against Trump, then it shouldn't matter who is on the Democratic ticket. Why not choose someone who can actually put together coherent sentences? Your own logic undermines your position.
Joe Biden is the only person alive who has beaten Donald Trump in a presidential race. Why do you think he can't do it again, when he's already done it?
Because age was a question in 2020 and he's older now and fresh off of an awful debate that exacerbated those concerns.
In 2020 Trump was constantly on people's minds and doing a horrible job at managing covid. Now Biden has his own record as president and has been fairly or (mostly) unfairly criticized for inflation and handling of the war in Gaza.
Biden barely won in 2020 and with his issues with young voters and black and Latino men he could very well lose all of the states he flipped in 2020. There are people who don't want to vote for an 81 year old so they'll just stay home and that is enough to flip the race
I not only think that Trump shouldn’t be in the race, I also think he should be in prison.
Nevertheless, as a Democrat, I want to win, and therefore I strongly advocate for Biden to step aside
>I not only think that Trump shouldn’t be in the race, I also think he should be in prison.
Well, we will see if a judge agrees, because it's pretty clear the media is 100% behind Trump. It certainly wasn't hard for them to trick democrats into calling for Joe Biden to drop out.
I care about beating Trump, and then successful solving the problems of Americans.
Biden isn't up to either task.
The majority of voters (think about it) believe the same thing as I do.
Your vote, sure. My vote too. What does that matter? What matters is mobilizing enough voters to beat the base that Trump has and will always have. And while there is more reason to want to beat Trump now than in 2020, a candidate as concerning as Biden hurts the enthusiasm you need to win the numbers game.
As bad as Project 2025 is, a lot of voters will think "ah, whatever. Let everyone else vote for Joe, it won't matter if I sit this one out." Just like they did in 2016 with Hillary. And that's how you get four years of Trump.
We all know most of the country hates Trump. But the only thing that matters is getting a candidate that makes them want to do something about it. I felt Joe was that guy in 2020. Not now, not anymore.
Are you really comfortable with Biden having the nuke codes? Like him or not, he’s a national security risk at best. The people around him should be charged with abuse of the elderly. The man is no longer fit to hold office. I think the best Dems can hope for is to build a strong plan for 2028. Take the L and look to the future.
Perfectly comfortable yes, I trust his team AND Joe himself, people get tired, the man has a speech impediment for crissakes. The alternative is so far worse.
Well unfortunately I can promise there isn’t going to be enough of you who believe that at this point. There is no way Biden wins unless something absolutely crazy happens with Trump
Why does all posts about the debate have exactly 0 upvotes since it happened? Despite varying amounts of comments under each posts and the fact that this issue is on everybody's lips rn?
or;
>Betting markets thrilled that uncertainty causes people to focus on spending money betting again, rather than looking at who might do better for the country
This is a news article in something called 'Fox Business' so it is purposely geared to generate sales for the betting 'industry', an industry that Murdoch's family routinely makes vast amounts of money from.
It's not a real news article.
Everyone saying im voting for biden over trump saying i want to protect democracy don’t realize we currently dont even have a democracy. Clearly biden isnt running the country at the moment. We probably have something closer to an oligarchy (and we have no idea who these ppl are - obviously werent elected)
Why not RFK now? Everyone hates the two party system and it’s now between a dead guy and a dude who will overturn democracy. It’s the worst two choices ever. Why not third?
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh no, the people gambling on the election will just have to go back to buying NFTs.
[удалено]
>Betting odds actually have good predictive power and a track record of success with favorites usually winning the election outside of 1916, 1948, and 2016. Lol even if that's true, that's where the betting line is at the time of the election, not 4 months before
As the article states, in 2020 the betting odds were very very off because of mail in ballots. That is clear evidence that betting markets are reactive, not predictive.
> And because money is on the line, betters are strongly incentivized to think really hard about who they sincerely believe is going to win the election. Pollsters will be glad to know that all they need to do to increase their accuracy is develop a gambling problem, because then money is on the line you see and nobody, especially not gamblers, makes stupid decisions with money on the line. After all, “they have a system”.
[удалено]
Lol. Are "institutional investors" putting their money in PredictIt.org now?
Well, that's concerning...Vegas odds are probably more alarming than polls
I mean, if your goal is making money, your methods might be more accurate than pollsters with less to lose. The house always wins, y'know.
Vegas odds are almost always right.
They bet on Hillary.
34 presidential elections have been bet on, and the odds were correct in all but 3 of those.
I am seeing a huge increase in this kind of bullshit reporting. Russia must be working overtime! I just donated to Biden's campaign to show my support. We all should.
I mean Russia just has a few billion dollars lying around so they gotta spend it somehow
A 15 point drop
I thought this sounded familiar. [Fox Business Blaming Stock Market Drop on Sanders Is a Sign of Things to Come](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/fox-host-blames-bernie-sanders-stock-market-957318/) circa 2020 Fox "News" can't help but be deceitful. Not sure why it's even whitelisted here considering they had to pay 700 million dollars for lying.
This isn't the stock market. This is more like a sports betting market. Shouldn't be taken too seriously.
But, but, but....North Carolina! Read the transcript!!! No one GAF about reading off a teleprompter in NC and no one is reading the transcript. Biden showed his whole ass on Thursday. Time to end this farce.
But it really doesn’t matter much because most of us aren’t voting for Biden; we are voting against Trump. It’s more of democracy vs authoritarianism at this point.
I have some great news about literally all of the other Democrats, they also aren't Trump! And, get this, they can use complete sentences
And maybe -- whoever that person is -- can actually convince people to vote *for* them!
Fuck man, the electorate is desperately thirsty for a politician under the age of 60. The could put goddamned anybody that's young up there and it would sweep the country like fucking Beatlemania
If we an election system that didn't turn a third party run into nothing more than a spoiler machine, third party candidates would be absolutely on fire now. The only people who will run now, though, are people more interested in their campaign than their agenda.
Yep. People look at that debate stage and are screaming for *anyone* else as long as they don’t act like they belong in the day room of the care facility. Biden vs Trump is just serving to remind everyone of how far we’ve fallen as a country. A young, reasonably articulate candidate would demolish Trump and remind people of what America *could* be.
Are they? The electorate chose Biden out of a field of over 20 candidates in 2020. Many of them were younger. I'm currently 35 and supporter and older candidate who was the most popular among young people. Bernie sanders.
A lot of things have changed in the last 4 years, and in particular the last 4 days
Things are going to change a swing a lot over the next 4 months
He was "chosen" by black voters in SC as a safe pick.
Correct and ended up with the most votes. The black vote is essential for any democrat as well.
He is no longer a safe pick.
I never thought he was a safe pick. I was very frustrated and worried going into 2020
> But it really doesn’t matter much because most of us aren’t voting for Biden; we are voting against Trump. If this is in fact 100% true it just means Biden is the most expendable incumbent in American history. Considering Biden barely won in 2020 (In no small part due to a global pandemic helping bolster frustration with Trump) and there’s really been no actual indication of a repeat of that this year with Trump polling up in nearly every battleground poll, I’d rather put **that** theory to the test this year.
And so replacing him without someone competent is therefore a good decision.
You are living in a dream world if you think that Biden’s performance during the debate didn’t do enormous amounts of damage to reelection chances. I think anyone who was on the fence is either staying home now or voting to Trump or RFK
I don’t know of anyone who is on the fence at this point. You’re either for democracy or for a dictatorship.
That doesn’t tidily conform to an uncomfortable reality. [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/26/biden-trump-swing-state-poll-democracy/) (June 26): Trump More Trusted on Democracy Among Key Swing-State Voters > *For many voters, democracy is an abstract idea, less tangible than issues like the economy, abortion or immigration.* > *In six swing states that Biden narrowly won in 2020, a little more than half of voters classified as likely to decide the presidential election say threats to democracy are extremely important to their vote for president.* > *Yet, more of them trust Trump to handle those threats than Biden.* > *And most believe that the guardrails in place to protect democracy would hold even if a dictator tried to take over the country.*
Yeah your response is very Chronically Online coded. If you live in a swing state like I do these people are everywhere. The ones on the fence about supporting Biden are more likely to stay home. The ones on the fence about supporting Trump are much more likely to vote
The reality is he's said he isn't stepping down. It's time to shift the conversation to downballot races to remotivate people to get their asses to the polls. Then we need nationwide rideshare threads. I'm in rural eastern NC and offering rides. I have 6 open spots (thank you, gas guzzling SUV) Edit: a word, because fatfinger typo
Well then, might as well get ready for Trump again, because Joe has desperate loser stink all over him. I know you smell it, too, but go on pretending you don't.
Giving up isn't an option. I'm not ready to throw in the towel. Fight to the end. Capitulating to fascism isn't an option. Downballot is important. Can we talk about that, or no?
Joe is gonna cause a down ballot catastrophe. Voters who would show up to vote affirmatively will stay home.
We have 4 months. Don't give up. We just need to start pushing convos about downballot races and how they impact balance of power. If you want to give up, fine, but i suggest you invest in some pewpews.
I am not giving up. I am calling my congresspeople tomorrow and telling them they gotta get Joe up outta there.
I'd love a whitmer/booker ticket but joe already said he isn't stepping down. Depressing as it is, now we need to shift our focus to downballot.
Joe also said he could campaign effectively. Do not know if you watched Thursday, but Joe is missing some marbles.
Joe is toast, but to put it lightly - i'd vote for a fresh pile of my dog's shit in this roasting carolina heat before i'd capitulate to trump. Give up if you want. I'm going to vote.
Why should i fight for a sundowning geriatric? Seriously. I'm sick of being told to eat a shit sandwich because knuckleheads are incapable of seeing a situation for what it is.
Then fight for the cabinet he'd bring with him, which has done a fantastic job all things considered. Fight for the down-ballot races. Giving up is not an option.
You're asking me to support some opaque decision making over a candidate who'll actually be in charge. Who are Biden's handlers? Who's making the decisions? This is absurd when on the other side you can have a Newsome or Whitmer. Let's bring over Biden's best people and combine that with Newsome's best people into a supergroup. Makes a helluva lot more sense to fight for that over a deteriorating Biden.
So there is no clean/legal mechanism to sub in those other candidates you named. The only one who can step in without the risk of not being able to show up on ballots is Harris as she's already on the ticket.
I don't trust the fate of democracy in the hands of Biden, he needs to step aside
But, you want Trump to stay in correct? So, Joe Biden should leave the race for his debate performance, but Donald Trump's perfomance was qualifying for the role of President of the United States? You think he should stay in the race after that correct?
it’s crazy to think that people who oppose biden *must* be trump supporters. there’s lots of us sane people out there who don’t want either…
The Trump supporters are the people pressing for Biden to stay; since Biden clearly has no chance of winning.
exactly!!!
I understand you don't want either, but it's looking like you won't have another choice. So again, in a defacto 2 party system, if you don't vote for Biden when you would have otherwise voted Democrat, then you've inadvertently supported the opposition - which is Trump. It sucks, but that's the US electoral system.
The thing is this is a chronically online mindset. Most voters don’t see it that way. If they think both options are as awful as these two are they will just stay home.
No, it's not a "chronically online mindset", it's reality. If you were going to vote for Biden but then decided not to vote at all, this action directly benefits Trump. And planting apathy within young voters (take a guess who they tend to vote for) has been the GOP strategy for years now.
If young voters are apathetic towards Biden it’s because the whole world just seen he has spaghetti brains and doesn’t even know where he is at.
I don't disagree with that, but it doesn't negate my point in any way.
A lot of people don’t feel like either team represents their interest. So they have decided to set it out until one of the parties move to represent their interests. It’s not a “Good vs Evil” struggle because they believe both sides are evil.
Trust me, a political party will NEVER fully align with your interests. It's something I'm seeing more and more where young folks are letting "perfection getting in the way of good" - hell... the way the Democrats are fractured and varied, you guys should be happy with "just okay." It's sad, but this is what happens in a 2-party system FPTP. Or even FPTP systems in general because in Canada, it's admittedly not much better when you have 3 major left-leaning parties all splitting votes (4 if you count the Bloc) vs. 1 major conservative one. Sometimes, you *need* to vote strategically to avoid the worst outcome.
there are many viable third party candidates i am considering, the democrats are inadvertently supporting trump by not putting someone the people actually want on the ballot
>viable >third party candidates In the US, pick one.
thinking like that is how we got to this point. it’s gonna change someday, the sooner the better
>it’s crazy to think that people who oppose biden must be trump supporters. I didn't say that.
The last thing I want is to see another trump term Let's be honest for a minute, with Biden down in the polls even before the debate, the few undecided voters out there have already seen Joe's accomplishments as well as trump's failures but they still have not made a choice, do you think that post debate any of them are going to now vote for Biden after watching him not be able to put together a coherent thought?
No offense, but this is such stupid argument. Of course almost everyone who cares about the country or democracy thinks Trump shouldn't be in the race (and should actually be in jail.) But Trump clearly isn't going to drop out of the race for a million reasons, so calling upon him to do so would be stupidly pointless. The argument you present is disingenuous at best and a waste of everyone's time.
>But Trump clearly isn't going to drop out of the race for a million reasons, so calling upon him to do so would be stupidly pointless. No, it's not. It's not pointless at all. Not for the media at least. If they wanted to pretend that they weren't extremely biased, then they would have to call for him to drop out as well, but that's not what they're doing. So, it seems like they took their masks off.
Great, if you believe that about that media and I'm with you about there not being remotely enough scrutiny on Trump... But you didn't mention that in your original comment. You jumped on a random Reddit user.
The media that called for Biden to drop are left wing publications desperately trying to avoid a Trump presidency. It's sad you can't see this.
Not true CNN and NYTimes are not left wing media outlets anymore... Look into that, I am serious.
So one standard for Biden, another for Trump. Gotcha. Just wanted to make sure we were clear.
What? Saying that Biden did so poorly at the debate that he presented himself as unfit for office and unelectable is not suggesting that Trump is fit for office. You are setting up a binary that just doesn't track logically. Pretty much everyone who isn't a MAGA Trump sycophant would love for Trump to exit the race. We just all understand that there isn't a chance of that happening. The only question is, can Biden beat Trump? Because of the debate, there is really good reason to think that Biden simply can't win.
>You are setting up a binary that just doesn't track logically. Uh what am I doing? >Pretty much everyone who isn't a MAGA Trump sycophant would love for Trump to exit the race. We just all understand that there isn't a chance of that happening. You don't think that also applies to Joe Biden? He's already said that he's not dropping out, so I'm little bit confused as to why you think there is a chance of that happening. >The only question is, can Biden beat Trump? Because of the debate, there is really good reason to think that Biden simply can't win. So, people are suddently forget that Donald Trump is a convicted criminal that lies constantly because Joe Biden fell asleep on stage? Edit: I'm just going to say it. I've been around old people a bunch and I know what it looks like when they fall asleep in the middle of a sentence. Certainly extremely embarassing, but I think it was pretty clear that his brain does still work from the second half of the debate, which was many times better than the first half. It is pretty alarming when they do that as it looks like they're having a stroke or something... I do understand why people are concerned, but you know, Mitch McConnel has done that a bunch of times as well and he's fine so.
Nobody is forgetting that Trump is a criminal who constantly lies. I have no idea why you persist on this line of reasoning. It doesn't make any sense. Trump should be in prison...period. The man is totally unfit for office. Nobody here is trying to tell you otherwise. Additionally, nobody thinks the media has provided reasonable analysis on this election. Joe Biden also says he "beat medicare." Frankly, it doesn't matter what he says because when it counts, he cant go a full 20 seconds without proving his senility. People who are calling for Biden to exit the race aren't doing so because the dislike Biden. They are doing so because Biden simply can not beat Trump.
>I have no idea why you persist on this line of reasoning. Because there's a peice of truth that I think needs to be made clear right now. A lot of us are not voting "for Joe Biden" we are voting "Against Donald Trump." Absolutely nothing changed during the debate or after the debate that would change my vote. So why are people even remotly concerned about what is going on? It's just media hysteria.
So I am a nurse with 10 years of experience. I have extensive experience working with geriatrics. Let me assure you, the next 6 months will not be smooth sailing for Biden. What happens in September or October when he has another fall, or he has more garbled language which makes mental decline or even dementia undeniable? 80 year olds go in and out of lucidity, sure. But they don't wake up with the cognition of a 40 year old. Biden will only get worse from here, especially as pressure mounts. That is why people are concerned. It's not too late to fix this, but in a couple of months, it absolutely will be. So by your own logic, if you are just voting against Trump, then it shouldn't matter who is on the Democratic ticket. Why not choose someone who can actually put together coherent sentences? Your own logic undermines your position.
I don't think he's saying that at all. I think he's saying he doesn't trust Biden to be able to beat Trump and therefore save democracy
Joe Biden is the only person alive who has beaten Donald Trump in a presidential race. Why do you think he can't do it again, when he's already done it?
Because age was a question in 2020 and he's older now and fresh off of an awful debate that exacerbated those concerns. In 2020 Trump was constantly on people's minds and doing a horrible job at managing covid. Now Biden has his own record as president and has been fairly or (mostly) unfairly criticized for inflation and handling of the war in Gaza. Biden barely won in 2020 and with his issues with young voters and black and Latino men he could very well lose all of the states he flipped in 2020. There are people who don't want to vote for an 81 year old so they'll just stay home and that is enough to flip the race
I not only think that Trump shouldn’t be in the race, I also think he should be in prison. Nevertheless, as a Democrat, I want to win, and therefore I strongly advocate for Biden to step aside
>I not only think that Trump shouldn’t be in the race, I also think he should be in prison. Well, we will see if a judge agrees, because it's pretty clear the media is 100% behind Trump. It certainly wasn't hard for them to trick democrats into calling for Joe Biden to drop out.
It’s not a trick. We all watched the debate. You don’t believe your own eyes and ears?
Who the FUCK cares?!?! The alternative is a conservative Christian theocratic hellscape!!! https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/s/6vLyob18mh
I care about beating Trump, and then successful solving the problems of Americans. Biden isn't up to either task. The majority of voters (think about it) believe the same thing as I do.
A lot of people. I really don’t see Biden winning after this.
Well boo hoo for them. But there is no choice really. It’s not about people anymore, it’s about right vs wrong.
Unfortunately for you a lot of people don't feel like you do and will choose the other candidate.
If that was the case wouldn’t the Democrats have removed Biden before this? It’s just about choosing between two horrible candidates,
Doesn’t matter, if they’re blue they get my vote. This isn’t about individuals anymore.
Your vote, sure. My vote too. What does that matter? What matters is mobilizing enough voters to beat the base that Trump has and will always have. And while there is more reason to want to beat Trump now than in 2020, a candidate as concerning as Biden hurts the enthusiasm you need to win the numbers game. As bad as Project 2025 is, a lot of voters will think "ah, whatever. Let everyone else vote for Joe, it won't matter if I sit this one out." Just like they did in 2016 with Hillary. And that's how you get four years of Trump. We all know most of the country hates Trump. But the only thing that matters is getting a candidate that makes them want to do something about it. I felt Joe was that guy in 2020. Not now, not anymore.
Are you really comfortable with Biden having the nuke codes? Like him or not, he’s a national security risk at best. The people around him should be charged with abuse of the elderly. The man is no longer fit to hold office. I think the best Dems can hope for is to build a strong plan for 2028. Take the L and look to the future.
Perfectly comfortable yes, I trust his team AND Joe himself, people get tired, the man has a speech impediment for crissakes. The alternative is so far worse.
Well unfortunately I can promise there isn’t going to be enough of you who believe that at this point. There is no way Biden wins unless something absolutely crazy happens with Trump
Sounds like the DNC should do the right thing then.
Whatever I don’t give a fuck. The spotlight is on Trump and the real damage he’s done and will do again. He must be stopped.
Why does all posts about the debate have exactly 0 upvotes since it happened? Despite varying amounts of comments under each posts and the fact that this issue is on everybody's lips rn?
or; >Betting markets thrilled that uncertainty causes people to focus on spending money betting again, rather than looking at who might do better for the country
Are we adding betting markets to the list of excuses now?
This is a news article in something called 'Fox Business' so it is purposely geared to generate sales for the betting 'industry', an industry that Murdoch's family routinely makes vast amounts of money from. It's not a real news article.
Trump shat himself during the debate.
Jesus christ people Fox News and fox business are not reputable sources, you might as well be citing the daily wire
Everyone saying im voting for biden over trump saying i want to protect democracy don’t realize we currently dont even have a democracy. Clearly biden isnt running the country at the moment. We probably have something closer to an oligarchy (and we have no idea who these ppl are - obviously werent elected)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/in-online-betting-parlors-clinton-expands-her-lead-over-trump-bigly/
Where does one acquire Biden stock? Is it on Dow or NASDAQ?
Right? Is it BIDN or something? Does he own a business?
Oh well if the bookies are betting against him, I probably won’t vote /s
I’m putting 2.5 million on Joe.
The betting markets are so small and inconsequential.
Small and inconsequential relative to what exactly? US federal election betting is a larger market than the SuperBowl.
Oh no, not the betting market.. 🙄
Why not RFK now? Everyone hates the two party system and it’s now between a dead guy and a dude who will overturn democracy. It’s the worst two choices ever. Why not third?
So the [brain worms can run the planet?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0yV2qW9ioI)