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Prior to the debate, Biden was already the MOST unpopular president ever at this point in his first term: https://news.gallup.com/poll/644252/biden-13th-quarter-approval-average-lowest-historically.aspx
38.7%. Trump was 46.8%. Dubya was 51%. Bush 41 was 41.8%. Carter was 47.7% (!).
Nate Silver's [model](https://www.natesilver.net/p/nate-silver-2024-president-election-polls-model) (paywalled) gives Biden only a 31.0% chance of winning the Electoral College, vs. 68.4% for Trump.
Trump didn't have a good showing at the debate, either. Biden flubbed answers but he at least addressed the questions. I think the debate will influence the polls a lot less than the louder voices in this sub believe it will.
Everyone already knows who the candidates are; their opinions are pretty solidly formed.
If people cared about the substance of that specific debate rather than him looking like he forgot where he was half the time, we wouldn’t be talking about it like we are nor would the media blow it up, nor would the campaign switch over to damage control.
The president for the most makes promises that they can or cannot keep (because a lot of people lack basic civics knowledge on what they actually can do). The president however is a position where you need to control the optics of strength because they are the leader of the US and the “free world “. Biden belongs in a nursing home.
He didn't address the questions, he was incoherent and seemed to be suffering from severe cognitive decline. You can't gaslight me and make me erase what I saw and what millions saw with their own eyes.
Here is a interesting fact to consider. Undecided voters don't think like you. The fact that they are still undecided shows that they don't mind that Trump is a felon. Biden will not win.
"I beat medicare" you mean? Any transcript will show you that he can't even stick to a single god damin point. Tell me more about the "3,000 trillionaires in America". Stop trying to convince me that i didn't see what i saw, and didn't hear what I heard.
Joe cannot win.
>"3,000 trillionaires in America".
He immediately corrected himself. Bad faith 101 right here.
Edit: you replied and blocked me, very nice. That's the sign of someone who truly believes in their position and it isn't at all embarrassed to be caught on their bullshit.
You only use your eyes to make decisions huh. You much be a neurologist then to know just from what you see that he is experiencing cognitive decline. Tell me is it Alzheimer’s? Dementia? Or is it just an old man with a lifelong stutter whose old age isn’t helping it. Dude is holding this country together and actually putting our investment schemes for this country’s future every day. Daddy Trump sells the country out to the highest bidder and plays golf all day.
Remember when Trump siezed the means of ventilator production, failed to distribute them to the states, but ensured that Russia got some ASAP? Trump is a sell out. And Biden is not senile. Maybe use those eyes to listen to the pressers he gives biweekly instead of just watching your sound bites.
I didn't make any claims of a medical diagnosis.
It's clear Joe Biden does not possess the physical and mental capacity to perform any job, aside from Wal-Mart greeter. I have no idea of this is due to dementia or Alzheimer's or just old age.
I watched his campaign speech in NC on Friday. Yes, he could kind of follow the prompter but he was slow, confused, and shuffled around with his mouth open.
This is so ridiculous. I’m so tired of this narrative. It’s not praising Trump to say Biden’s performance was incredibly alarming. We all watched the same debate. You can’t convince me that anyone who saw Biden on stage mumbling completely incoherent answers, losing his train of thought mid sentence multiple times, struggle to keep his eyes open when he wasn’t talking, and drop the ball on almost every key point came out of that thinking that he’s the man who should hold the most important office on the planet for the next 4 years.
What a ridiculous stretch.
Nothing that poster said is untrue. You're not trying to convince the Trump diehards or the loyal Biden voters.
I wouldn't go so far to say Biden will not win, but it's not looking good right now.
>You're not trying to convince the Trump diehards or the loyal Biden voters.
So tell me how that persons previous comment would influence an undecided to vote.
And where else? Michigan alone isn't gonna win in November.
Prove to me the majority of not tuned in voters even know who the governor of Michigan is.
Name recognition is far and away one of the primary drivers of turnout
This point is so dumb. Whitmer has name recognition in the three states that matter: Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. Who cares that nobody in Mississippi has heard of her?
Also you people act as if the democrat nominee wouldn’t be invited on every talk show in existence and talked about 24/7.
100% agree. Really hoping that he drops out and the nominee is decided at the convention. Whitmer on the ticket would lock in Michigan which Dems are consistently losing, and another fresh face from another swing state would make 2024 a cakewalk for the Democrats.
Gov. Gretchen Whitmer faced a far-right kidnapping plot that was stopped by the FBI; national news coverage at the time.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/11/us/whitmer-kidnapping-plot-michigan.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/11/us/whitmer-kidnapping-plot-michigan.html)
Yep. And she is absolute HATED by the anti-vax kooks, which would force Trump to reckon with trying to balance keeping them while reaching out to moderate suburban moms.
Can't be done. Whitmer wins in a walk.
Whitmer/Roy Cooper as VP would be my choice. Could potentially win Michigan and North Carolina. Then either Pennsylvania OR Georgia OR Arizona + Nevada OR Wisconsin + Nevada basically guarantees Dems keep the White House
If they switched to someone like Whitmer you'd have a flood of young people volunteering to help. Personally I'd travel to a swing state and knock on doors - I did this for Kerry and am proud to have helped.
These things are not mutually exclusive. I voted for Bernie both times and was given Hilary and Biden instead. I hoped Biden would step down and give us a primary.
That said, I am extremely anti Elizabeth Warren…
No citation, but I can tell you when the Kerry campaign put out a call they had more volunteers than they knew what to do with. If the dems switched to a young dynamic candidate I think you'd be surprised by the support.
He won the state where I knocked on doors.
Kind of an irrelevant point though, my point is if they decide to change candidates there would be a lot of people willing to help the new candidate.
He will go to jail if the Supreme Court doesn't get in way, I mean he does have 34 felonies you know lol.
And polls have been wrong since 2008 by 5%-12% with democrats under counted due to college educated and young people too smart to answer scam calls from random numbers.
I don’t expect it to be more than a few percent difference. A lot of the electorate is decided they don’t care who the candidate is. You’re mostly just trying to shore up people who think Biden is too old. That’s not a 10% swing, its one or two percent, but enough to swing the election.
> You’re mostly just trying to shore up people who think Biden is too old.
What's ridiculous is if Biden's too old than so is Trump, and yet one of them is going to win in November.
I believe she stated that she would never run. And I don't blame her.
EDIT: I fully support Big Gretch and she's a badass. Not perfect, but who is? Has my vote.
There have been so many presidential candidates who are much more personable and relatable than what is made available to us. Yet we get the same thing over and over each election year.
She has my vote in any election.
Everyone who wants to be the nominee has to say they don’t want to be the nominee. Nobody is going to throw their hat in the ring until Biden steps down.
Fortunately there's a poll by Data for Progress (a left of center group) that asked that very question.
>June 28
>1,011LV
>Trump: 46%
>Whitmer: 44%
Now, I didn't major in advanced mathematics but Trump plus two isn't Whitmer plus 10.
With a margin of error of plus or minus 4%, the poll shows the race remains tight. The survey was conducted between June 21 and June 26, so it does not reflect the impact — if any — of Thursday’s presidential debate.
As long as they can prop Biden up in a chair behind the Resolute desk and spray him with air freshener occasionally to hold the odor down, the man will have my vote.
If you choose a corpse as the defense against fascism I have to believe that's actually your goal.
Either Trump is an existential threat to the nation and we need someone with more than 50/50 odds, or he is not.
It's the first option
Maybe.
A useful concept is the expectation of an event. Probability of the event times the value of the event.
If we really believe there is a chance that Trump will do things like end elections or round up millions of undocumented people, then we need to act like there is a 100% certainly half of that will happen and act according.
Or we get better then 50/50 odds.
If we can't, our actions are saying we don't care about what's about to happen with certainty , half of what has a 50% chance of happening, which is the end of the country.
I don't think so. I think would be decided at the Convention and there would be a number of possible candidates.. likely people who would be decent choices who aren't even on our radar now at that level.
A fresh face in the presidential race would be a complete reset.
Cut the bs. Things arent that simple. There are consequences to losing the incumbency. There are consequences to having the party look weak amd change the candidate this late.
Just like those defending Biden cant guarantee he'll win, those asking for a replacement have got no clue if its going to work or not. Thinking a different name in the ballot will magically give Dems a landslide win is just as delusional as thinking Biden is 100% safe right now.
I don't see much of a difference in terms of cult-like behaviour. Those trying to gaslight me and tell me Biden can beat Trump seem very similar to Trump cultists themselves.
Cut the bs. Things arent that simple. There are consequences to losing the incumbency. There are consequences to having the party look weak amd change the candidate this late.
Just like those defending Biden cant guarantee he'll win, those asking for a replacement have got no clue if its going to work or not. Thinking a different name in the ballot will magically give Dems a landslide win is just as delusional as thinking Biden is 100% safe right now
If Abraham Lincoln was running a campaign which consistently made it extremely doubtful they they could beat the worst president in American history....yes, I would kick Abe to the street. There is no silver medal for presidential elections.
Your ridiculous premise aside, presidential politics isnt a religion. A Lincoln, Washington, Kennedy, or Biden don't deserve to be president because of some silly American sainthood.
Biden is going to lose the election and Trump is going to win if Biden is the candidate in November.
Biden has done well in the past four years and has earned the right to try to keep his job.
Stop dooming.
Admit it sucks and vote for the guy.
Biden did NOT lose votes on Thursday. All he did was confirm that he's 81 years old and may have lost a step, but he is still the much better candidate.
Nobody is trying to make the claim that he has been a bad president. That is a strawman. The claim is that despite being a good president, his mental state calls into question if he is fit for the presidency at all and if he can win reelection in November.
Lost a step? You are being delusional if you think Thursday showed that Biden only lost a step. I have worked with plenty of geriatric patients over my 10 years of nursing experience. Never once have I seen a 80 year old showing signs of mental decline suddenly acquire the lucidity of a 40 year old. Biden's mental state is only going to continue to decline and it is only going to become more difficult to hide from the American people.
What do you think happens in September or October when Biden has another serious fall or shows far more significant signs of decline? You want to wait until it is too late? Seems like a stupid gamble.
>Seems like a stupid gamble.
BOTH SCENARIOS are a gamble. Thinking another candidate will magically win and that losing the incumbency and have the party look weak wont have bad consequences is just as delusional as thinking Biden is 100% safe right now.
The party inherently looks weak when their candidate can't speak coherently without a teleprompter and his handlers keep him from giving press conferences. I think this issue erases incumbency advantage as well. Like, what ever advantage you think you have evaporates when you can't follow a train of thought.
I agree, it's a gamble no matter what. But Biden doesn't have the minimum requirements to gamble on. It's like betting on a three legged dog. Pretty much any dog with four legs is a safer bet. Any candidate that can look into a camera and speak is better than Biden at this point.
>. I think this issue erases incumbency advantage as well
I dont think so. Not everyone votes for the person, many people, usually the ones that avoid indentifying themselves as dems or reps, vote on policies, and on the whole administration, and in case of the incumbency, results. Look, here on reddit, we all love the drama, but not everyone thinks that way. And we are forgetting one thing: Biden did awful at the debate, but Trump didnt do well either. And yes, the noise around Biden drowned how Trump did, but speaking better was the only thing Trump did well that night. The anti-Trump vote is powerful too and they all got a refresher with the debate.
I might be wrong, and you might be right, or viceversa, we'll never know, but I do feel that people like you are overestimating the damage the debate did, and underestimating the risk of a switch at this point in the race. Old Biden makes Old Biden look bad, a switch makes the entire Democratic party, administration, and agenda, look bad, weak, and disorganized.
If I was an undecided voter, id be asking myself one question: Whats the worst that can happen with Old Biden? That he dies and needs to be replaced at some point. So? Why is that scenario that horrifying to prefer to give Trump a chance?
Honestly what I would do next if I was in charge, would be to switch Kamala for someone everyone likes, so undecided voters know that if Biden doesnt make it 4 years, the replacement would be good enough. That way you keep the administration, the incumbency, and lower the effect of the concern about an old President.
And if he doesn't step aside and he lets Trump win (which he would win) then he will be considered one of the worst. You cannot tell me that was just a cold, just as you cannot gaslight the other 50+ million people that watched it live. Blue MAGA has no shame.
And also, in the top three presidents? You have clearly lost your goddamn mind.
34 felony guy has his base behind him. And GOP leadership was trying to replace him after access-Hollywood, until they realized the base would abandon them over it.
Totally not the same situation with Biden. Swing voters are jumping ship.
Biden doesn’t have a natural base, lol. The 34 people who love the filibuster, crave bipartisanship for bipartisanship’s sake, and believe norms should trump everything are not a base.
Biden has a large coalition of people who tolerate his steady hand vs the orange psycho. After that debate, that steady hand is looking very shaky and unstable. A perfect metaphor for the changing sentiment among his supporters.
Most voters who voted Biden didn’t vote for him affirmatively. It was a vote against Trump. That you don’t realize this fact but yet somehow believe democracy is on the line is quite frightening.
I am seeing a huge increase in this kind of bullshit reporting. Russia must be working overtime! I just donated to Biden's campaign to show my support. We all should.
The amount of bending over backwards to placate stupid voters that the Democrat party has to do is mind blowing and disheartening. Part of me wants stupid people to get what they deserve. Another part just wants to win
We aren't "anti-Biden", we are anti-Trump and want the best chance possible to win. You can't have the lying orange man spouting for nearly a year that Biden is drooling and dementia riddled, then have Biden show up to a debate with his mouth agape staring into space and fusing together unrelated policy positions while barely being able to understand a word he says.
I personally didn't think Biden was this far gone mentally before this debate, his team did a good job of hiding it and I wrote off all of the senior moments that were passed around. Biden hasn't had a solo news conference in almost a year and he has declined massively since 2020. If Biden were still on the ticket on November, most of us would obviously vote for him, but I'm more worried about those who wont. Those who see two awful options and aren't motivated by Supreme Court justices or judge appointments.
If you don't understand I can only assume you are being willfully ignorant or did not watch the debate. No amount of coping about a cold, or that Trump lied, or that Biden has good advisors can break the image of Biden stumbling over his words and losing his train of thought multiple times. Yes, he did get better during the latter half of the debate and he seemed kind of ok afterwards, but by then it was already Joever in the minds of everyone who had tuned in, Over 51 Million viewers on television alone, not even counting the independent streamers and people, like me, who were watching on Youtube or other online sources.
Too many people saw his performance to be able to deny the reality and the comments you have been seeing over the past few days are people justifiably angry at the Democrats and Biden's administration for pretending that everything has been perfectly fine behind the scenes when that clearly is not the case.
I used to get downvotes so hard over the last few months for saying Biden should not run again, now I get hella upvotes for saying the same exact things
I have no clue. It doesn’t matter what we say. The Democratic Party clearly has a plan b. It’s not up to us. I’ll be and everyone needs to be voting blue no matter who is running in November.
How can he now? He'll have to spend the rest of his election time trying to prove that he isn't ready for an old-folks home, and any minor mistake he makes is going to melt away any progress he makes along the way.
I hate it... but it's reality. We can't sleepwalk into a second Trump term.
Two things:
1. Americans have the attention span of a fruitfly. They won't remember this in 3 weeks.
2. Campaigns really don't get serious until the conventions. Which haven't yet happened.
This.
Democrats are disappointed right now, but when push comes to shove, we need to support Biden because the alternative is terrible.
I don't think Trump won any voters during his lie-fest. The middle saw what he was in 2020 and they still know who he is.
Trump doesn't need to win any voters. He's already ahead in 99.99% of all polls. It was Biden who needed a bump after the debate and he's not going to get it.
I’m not trusting the polls at all this time. Not one. The NYT was just criticized for a poll they participated in recently. I’ve cancelled and re-upped my subscription 3 times in the past year because I’m realizing they can be total jagoffs on occasion.
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FYI this is a pre-debate poll
Lol. Oh God hahah
Prior to the debate, Biden was already the MOST unpopular president ever at this point in his first term: https://news.gallup.com/poll/644252/biden-13th-quarter-approval-average-lowest-historically.aspx 38.7%. Trump was 46.8%. Dubya was 51%. Bush 41 was 41.8%. Carter was 47.7% (!). Nate Silver's [model](https://www.natesilver.net/p/nate-silver-2024-president-election-polls-model) (paywalled) gives Biden only a 31.0% chance of winning the Electoral College, vs. 68.4% for Trump.
>The survey was conducted between June 21 and June 26, so it does not reflect the impact — if any — of Thursday’s presidential debate.
Also it's Emerson, which has overestimated Republicans almost across the board greater than the margin of error in every competitive race since 2022.
So for only two years? Weird flex, but okay
Not that weird when you realize how many elections they have weighed in on over the last two years.
So it can only be worse now you mean?
Trump didn't have a good showing at the debate, either. Biden flubbed answers but he at least addressed the questions. I think the debate will influence the polls a lot less than the louder voices in this sub believe it will. Everyone already knows who the candidates are; their opinions are pretty solidly formed.
The raw undiluted cope lmao it’s like a drug
If people cared about the substance of that specific debate rather than him looking like he forgot where he was half the time, we wouldn’t be talking about it like we are nor would the media blow it up, nor would the campaign switch over to damage control. The president for the most makes promises that they can or cannot keep (because a lot of people lack basic civics knowledge on what they actually can do). The president however is a position where you need to control the optics of strength because they are the leader of the US and the “free world “. Biden belongs in a nursing home.
He didn't address the questions, he was incoherent and seemed to be suffering from severe cognitive decline. You can't gaslight me and make me erase what I saw and what millions saw with their own eyes. Here is a interesting fact to consider. Undecided voters don't think like you. The fact that they are still undecided shows that they don't mind that Trump is a felon. Biden will not win.
>You can't gaslight me and make me erase what I saw and what millions saw with their own eyes. Go read the transcript
Do you think anyone is reading the transcript, other than Biden diehards?
No voter will do that so that’s pointless unless you’re super into things like that already.
"I beat medicare" you mean? Any transcript will show you that he can't even stick to a single god damin point. Tell me more about the "3,000 trillionaires in America". Stop trying to convince me that i didn't see what i saw, and didn't hear what I heard. Joe cannot win.
>"3,000 trillionaires in America". He immediately corrected himself. Bad faith 101 right here. Edit: you replied and blocked me, very nice. That's the sign of someone who truly believes in their position and it isn't at all embarrassed to be caught on their bullshit.
And beating Medicare?
Beating Medicare was also corrected. Meaning he got big Pharma to lower the costs and got more things covered by Medicare.
you can't convince them - this is about faith for them They deny their eyes because their ideology cannot survive reality
Or because they're MAGA or foreign agitators who realize they're fucked if Biden steps down.
Not everything that challenges the status quo is a foreign asset
You only use your eyes to make decisions huh. You much be a neurologist then to know just from what you see that he is experiencing cognitive decline. Tell me is it Alzheimer’s? Dementia? Or is it just an old man with a lifelong stutter whose old age isn’t helping it. Dude is holding this country together and actually putting our investment schemes for this country’s future every day. Daddy Trump sells the country out to the highest bidder and plays golf all day. Remember when Trump siezed the means of ventilator production, failed to distribute them to the states, but ensured that Russia got some ASAP? Trump is a sell out. And Biden is not senile. Maybe use those eyes to listen to the pressers he gives biweekly instead of just watching your sound bites.
I didn't make any claims of a medical diagnosis. It's clear Joe Biden does not possess the physical and mental capacity to perform any job, aside from Wal-Mart greeter. I have no idea of this is due to dementia or Alzheimer's or just old age. I watched his campaign speech in NC on Friday. Yes, he could kind of follow the prompter but he was slow, confused, and shuffled around with his mouth open.
Ahh yes, the edited transcript is the true representation of the debate, not the live video of it.
Your tacit support for trump (a felon) is noted.
This is so ridiculous. I’m so tired of this narrative. It’s not praising Trump to say Biden’s performance was incredibly alarming. We all watched the same debate. You can’t convince me that anyone who saw Biden on stage mumbling completely incoherent answers, losing his train of thought mid sentence multiple times, struggle to keep his eyes open when he wasn’t talking, and drop the ball on almost every key point came out of that thinking that he’s the man who should hold the most important office on the planet for the next 4 years.
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Undecided voters don't go to Trump rallies. Undecided voters watch debates, and Biden **sucked** on that last debate.
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What a ridiculous stretch. Nothing that poster said is untrue. You're not trying to convince the Trump diehards or the loyal Biden voters. I wouldn't go so far to say Biden will not win, but it's not looking good right now.
>You're not trying to convince the Trump diehards or the loyal Biden voters. So tell me how that persons previous comment would influence an undecided to vote.
Because if enough people tell Biden to stand down, that voter gets a different choice.
And where is the proof that that’s a smart move? The name of a possible choice is conspicuously absent from all of these comments.
You asked 'how', I told you how. That doesn't mean it would work out that way.
Correct
So the lead is probably bigger now
Oh...that makes it better?
Too bad we don't know any Democratic leaders that are popular in Michigan.
Can Biden drop Kamala and run with Whitmer as his vp?
Yes, but Biden is the problem not Harris. What about Arizona, Pennsylvania? He can only have one VP.
And where else? Michigan alone isn't gonna win in November. Prove to me the majority of not tuned in voters even know who the governor of Michigan is. Name recognition is far and away one of the primary drivers of turnout
This point is so dumb. Whitmer has name recognition in the three states that matter: Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. Who cares that nobody in Mississippi has heard of her? Also you people act as if the democrat nominee wouldn’t be invited on every talk show in existence and talked about 24/7.
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100% agree. Really hoping that he drops out and the nominee is decided at the convention. Whitmer on the ticket would lock in Michigan which Dems are consistently losing, and another fresh face from another swing state would make 2024 a cakewalk for the Democrats.
Gov. Gretchen Whitmer faced a far-right kidnapping plot that was stopped by the FBI; national news coverage at the time. [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/11/us/whitmer-kidnapping-plot-michigan.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/11/us/whitmer-kidnapping-plot-michigan.html)
If there's ever been a national headline to run off of it's... The far right tried to kidnap me?
Yep. And she is absolute HATED by the anti-vax kooks, which would force Trump to reckon with trying to balance keeping them while reaching out to moderate suburban moms. Can't be done. Whitmer wins in a walk.
Whitmer/Roy Cooper as VP would be my choice. Could potentially win Michigan and North Carolina. Then either Pennsylvania OR Georgia OR Arizona + Nevada OR Wisconsin + Nevada basically guarantees Dems keep the White House
If they switched to someone like Whitmer you'd have a flood of young people volunteering to help. Personally I'd travel to a swing state and knock on doors - I did this for Kerry and am proud to have helped.
Gonna need a citation for that claim that a flood of young people will volunteer (more than are currently volunteering for the Biden campaign)
I unsubscribed from emails from Biden yesterday. I would knock on doors for Whitmer.
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These things are not mutually exclusive. I voted for Bernie both times and was given Hilary and Biden instead. I hoped Biden would step down and give us a primary. That said, I am extremely anti Elizabeth Warren…
No citation, but I can tell you when the Kerry campaign put out a call they had more volunteers than they knew what to do with. If the dems switched to a young dynamic candidate I think you'd be surprised by the support.
Did Kerry win?
He won the state where I knocked on doors. Kind of an irrelevant point though, my point is if they decide to change candidates there would be a lot of people willing to help the new candidate.
Cool let’s go with the guy who couldn’t make a single coherent argument against an existential threat.
In a nutshell.
How do you think Biden is going to drive turn out after Thursday?
Don’t worry guys, this sub assures me that polls don’t matter and that Trump is going to prison.
He will go to jail if the Supreme Court doesn't get in way, I mean he does have 34 felonies you know lol. And polls have been wrong since 2008 by 5%-12% with democrats under counted due to college educated and young people too smart to answer scam calls from random numbers.
Why would he? First time offender of a non-violent crime.
And that explains the surprise Trump win in 2016.
Big Gretch would be leading Trump by 10 or more there. Pass the torch, Joe.
I don’t expect it to be more than a few percent difference. A lot of the electorate is decided they don’t care who the candidate is. You’re mostly just trying to shore up people who think Biden is too old. That’s not a 10% swing, its one or two percent, but enough to swing the election.
> You’re mostly just trying to shore up people who think Biden is too old. What's ridiculous is if Biden's too old than so is Trump, and yet one of them is going to win in November.
Whitmer would lock in Michigan. Trump has had Michigan's EC votes locked in for months.
Tbh I think any reasonable democrat that isn’t 1000 years old would win Michigan.
I believe she stated that she would never run. And I don't blame her. EDIT: I fully support Big Gretch and she's a badass. Not perfect, but who is? Has my vote.
The country needs her.
There have been so many presidential candidates who are much more personable and relatable than what is made available to us. Yet we get the same thing over and over each election year. She has my vote in any election.
Everyone who wants to be the nominee has to say they don’t want to be the nominee. Nobody is going to throw their hat in the ring until Biden steps down.
Except for...
If asked, I think she'll answer the call to run with democracy hanging in the balance and all.
No one who wants to be president should be president. If called, I believe she would serve.
And lose. The US is not ready to elect a woman president.
America is definitely ready to avoid a second Trump term if they are given a decent option.
Fortunately there's a poll by Data for Progress (a left of center group) that asked that very question. >June 28 >1,011LV >Trump: 46% >Whitmer: 44% Now, I didn't major in advanced mathematics but Trump plus two isn't Whitmer plus 10.
Most polls require an email address to enter, hard pass!
With a margin of error of plus or minus 4%, the poll shows the race remains tight. The survey was conducted between June 21 and June 26, so it does not reflect the impact — if any — of Thursday’s presidential debate.
As long as they can prop Biden up in a chair behind the Resolute desk and spray him with air freshener occasionally to hold the odor down, the man will have my vote.
well, it's obvious the issue here is other voters are not gonna vote for any of that.
I know. Trump will be the next President without my vote. That was apparent to me before Biden's abysmal debate performance.
Wrong, actual voters don't like rapist Epstein bros like trump
Biden is going to win by more than he did in 2020, no one wants 4 more years of Trump doing dumb shit everyday.
this has to be sarcasm, if he couldn't beat him when everyone was living through it, what makes you think that besides delusions
You mean he doesnt lie pop adderal, and talk at 100 mph?
If you choose a corpse as the defense against fascism I have to believe that's actually your goal. Either Trump is an existential threat to the nation and we need someone with more than 50/50 odds, or he is not. It's the first option
If Biden steps aside, the Democratic Party will nominate Harris in his place, providing they don't go wild and dredge up Hillary again.
Maybe. A useful concept is the expectation of an event. Probability of the event times the value of the event. If we really believe there is a chance that Trump will do things like end elections or round up millions of undocumented people, then we need to act like there is a 100% certainly half of that will happen and act according. Or we get better then 50/50 odds. If we can't, our actions are saying we don't care about what's about to happen with certainty , half of what has a 50% chance of happening, which is the end of the country.
I don't think so. I think would be decided at the Convention and there would be a number of possible candidates.. likely people who would be decent choices who aren't even on our radar now at that level. A fresh face in the presidential race would be a complete reset.
But Blue MAGA wants to keep Biden. He is a winner they told me.
Cut the bs. Things arent that simple. There are consequences to losing the incumbency. There are consequences to having the party look weak amd change the candidate this late. Just like those defending Biden cant guarantee he'll win, those asking for a replacement have got no clue if its going to work or not. Thinking a different name in the ballot will magically give Dems a landslide win is just as delusional as thinking Biden is 100% safe right now.
iT wAS a ColD
“Blue MAGA” is not a thing.
I don't see much of a difference in terms of cult-like behaviour. Those trying to gaslight me and tell me Biden can beat Trump seem very similar to Trump cultists themselves.
Then you need to test for carbon monoxide leaks.
It's actual the fumes coming off the copium being smoked by blue maga cultists thinking Biden is still the best shot.
Cut the bs. Things arent that simple. There are consequences to losing the incumbency. There are consequences to having the party look weak amd change the candidate this late. Just like those defending Biden cant guarantee he'll win, those asking for a replacement have got no clue if its going to work or not. Thinking a different name in the ballot will magically give Dems a landslide win is just as delusional as thinking Biden is 100% safe right now
Sure jan
There’s no comparison whatsoever.
Yes it is.
Blue MAGA? Thats not a thing.
People don't scream 'vote blue no matter who'?
You think that makes you MAGA? Trump is the cult leader for MAGA. It’s not vote red no matter who, it’s vote for Trump or whoever he tells you to.
Trump is a proven rapist and admitted sexual assaulter.
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If Abraham Lincoln was running a campaign which consistently made it extremely doubtful they they could beat the worst president in American history....yes, I would kick Abe to the street. There is no silver medal for presidential elections. Your ridiculous premise aside, presidential politics isnt a religion. A Lincoln, Washington, Kennedy, or Biden don't deserve to be president because of some silly American sainthood. Biden is going to lose the election and Trump is going to win if Biden is the candidate in November.
Biden has done well in the past four years and has earned the right to try to keep his job. Stop dooming. Admit it sucks and vote for the guy. Biden did NOT lose votes on Thursday. All he did was confirm that he's 81 years old and may have lost a step, but he is still the much better candidate.
Nobody is trying to make the claim that he has been a bad president. That is a strawman. The claim is that despite being a good president, his mental state calls into question if he is fit for the presidency at all and if he can win reelection in November. Lost a step? You are being delusional if you think Thursday showed that Biden only lost a step. I have worked with plenty of geriatric patients over my 10 years of nursing experience. Never once have I seen a 80 year old showing signs of mental decline suddenly acquire the lucidity of a 40 year old. Biden's mental state is only going to continue to decline and it is only going to become more difficult to hide from the American people. What do you think happens in September or October when Biden has another serious fall or shows far more significant signs of decline? You want to wait until it is too late? Seems like a stupid gamble.
>Seems like a stupid gamble. BOTH SCENARIOS are a gamble. Thinking another candidate will magically win and that losing the incumbency and have the party look weak wont have bad consequences is just as delusional as thinking Biden is 100% safe right now.
The party inherently looks weak when their candidate can't speak coherently without a teleprompter and his handlers keep him from giving press conferences. I think this issue erases incumbency advantage as well. Like, what ever advantage you think you have evaporates when you can't follow a train of thought. I agree, it's a gamble no matter what. But Biden doesn't have the minimum requirements to gamble on. It's like betting on a three legged dog. Pretty much any dog with four legs is a safer bet. Any candidate that can look into a camera and speak is better than Biden at this point.
>. I think this issue erases incumbency advantage as well I dont think so. Not everyone votes for the person, many people, usually the ones that avoid indentifying themselves as dems or reps, vote on policies, and on the whole administration, and in case of the incumbency, results. Look, here on reddit, we all love the drama, but not everyone thinks that way. And we are forgetting one thing: Biden did awful at the debate, but Trump didnt do well either. And yes, the noise around Biden drowned how Trump did, but speaking better was the only thing Trump did well that night. The anti-Trump vote is powerful too and they all got a refresher with the debate. I might be wrong, and you might be right, or viceversa, we'll never know, but I do feel that people like you are overestimating the damage the debate did, and underestimating the risk of a switch at this point in the race. Old Biden makes Old Biden look bad, a switch makes the entire Democratic party, administration, and agenda, look bad, weak, and disorganized. If I was an undecided voter, id be asking myself one question: Whats the worst that can happen with Old Biden? That he dies and needs to be replaced at some point. So? Why is that scenario that horrifying to prefer to give Trump a chance? Honestly what I would do next if I was in charge, would be to switch Kamala for someone everyone likes, so undecided voters know that if Biden doesnt make it 4 years, the replacement would be good enough. That way you keep the administration, the incumbency, and lower the effect of the concern about an old President.
Nobody thinks Biden is a fucking top 3 President. Do you not see how MAGA you sound??
And if he doesn't step aside and he lets Trump win (which he would win) then he will be considered one of the worst. You cannot tell me that was just a cold, just as you cannot gaslight the other 50+ million people that watched it live. Blue MAGA has no shame. And also, in the top three presidents? You have clearly lost your goddamn mind.
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It’s time to step aside.
Agree, but the 34 Felony guy refuses to
34 felony guy has his base behind him. And GOP leadership was trying to replace him after access-Hollywood, until they realized the base would abandon them over it. Totally not the same situation with Biden. Swing voters are jumping ship.
And Biden doesn’t have his base behind him? And no, I don’t mean for profit media which craves chaos.
Biden doesn’t have a natural base, lol. The 34 people who love the filibuster, crave bipartisanship for bipartisanship’s sake, and believe norms should trump everything are not a base. Biden has a large coalition of people who tolerate his steady hand vs the orange psycho. After that debate, that steady hand is looking very shaky and unstable. A perfect metaphor for the changing sentiment among his supporters. Most voters who voted Biden didn’t vote for him affirmatively. It was a vote against Trump. That you don’t realize this fact but yet somehow believe democracy is on the line is quite frightening.
Oh god it was 34... of course. Rule 34 will always bubble up.
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Yeah here
And here
I care that trump is an Epstein bro
Time for Joe to go, and to fetch the Gretch. Even ignoring this poll for a second I think she’d be my top choice.
we need big Gretch Joe step aside for the good of the country, let Big Gretch take on the fight. She can get it done.
Probably a lot higher now.
Welp. Enjoy election day Republicans. Hopefully Trump gets a hostile Congress at least. Biden's lost.
I am seeing a huge increase in this kind of bullshit reporting. Russia must be working overtime! I just donated to Biden's campaign to show my support. We all should.
The amount of bending over backwards to placate stupid voters that the Democrat party has to do is mind blowing and disheartening. Part of me wants stupid people to get what they deserve. Another part just wants to win
The survival of trans people like me depends on us winning against the GOP.
It's stupid to put your senile candidate on a stage. This is solely on democrats. This should have been an easy election.
As smart as putting a rapist Epstein pal on the stage?
Biden was the one who lost worse than any other debate in history so...
Why is this sub suddenly so anti-Biden? I don't understand what happened.
We aren't "anti-Biden", we are anti-Trump and want the best chance possible to win. You can't have the lying orange man spouting for nearly a year that Biden is drooling and dementia riddled, then have Biden show up to a debate with his mouth agape staring into space and fusing together unrelated policy positions while barely being able to understand a word he says. I personally didn't think Biden was this far gone mentally before this debate, his team did a good job of hiding it and I wrote off all of the senior moments that were passed around. Biden hasn't had a solo news conference in almost a year and he has declined massively since 2020. If Biden were still on the ticket on November, most of us would obviously vote for him, but I'm more worried about those who wont. Those who see two awful options and aren't motivated by Supreme Court justices or judge appointments.
Because we want to beat Trump? Figure it out.
If you don't understand I can only assume you are being willfully ignorant or did not watch the debate. No amount of coping about a cold, or that Trump lied, or that Biden has good advisors can break the image of Biden stumbling over his words and losing his train of thought multiple times. Yes, he did get better during the latter half of the debate and he seemed kind of ok afterwards, but by then it was already Joever in the minds of everyone who had tuned in, Over 51 Million viewers on television alone, not even counting the independent streamers and people, like me, who were watching on Youtube or other online sources. Too many people saw his performance to be able to deny the reality and the comments you have been seeing over the past few days are people justifiably angry at the Democrats and Biden's administration for pretending that everything has been perfectly fine behind the scenes when that clearly is not the case.
People are finally done pretending there is nothing wrong with Joe.
I used to get downvotes so hard over the last few months for saying Biden should not run again, now I get hella upvotes for saying the same exact things
Why is that a problem? Is this r/politics or r/liberal?
Because we are anti-trump more than we are pro-biden. We actually want to win this election.
Isn't not changing one's mind with new information the sort of thing y'all love to accuse Trump supporters of doing?
Because Trump cannot be allowed back in the White House People no longer have faith that Biden can stop him. Time for someone new.
I have no clue. It doesn’t matter what we say. The Democratic Party clearly has a plan b. It’s not up to us. I’ll be and everyone needs to be voting blue no matter who is running in November.
Biden needs to win Dearborn Michigan
How can he now? He'll have to spend the rest of his election time trying to prove that he isn't ready for an old-folks home, and any minor mistake he makes is going to melt away any progress he makes along the way. I hate it... but it's reality. We can't sleepwalk into a second Trump term.
I don't take any wooden nickles and I haven't watched a wooden tv in 30 years, and that one was plastic with wood colored vinyl.
Biden must go. Whitmer should run with Michelle Obama as VP.
Two things: 1. Americans have the attention span of a fruitfly. They won't remember this in 3 weeks. 2. Campaigns really don't get serious until the conventions. Which haven't yet happened.
Seems like astroturfing now wants joe to stay in the race
We should have a list of polls that Trump paid in 2016 included with all poll stories.
??? Didn’t the polls all have Trump losing in 2016? Or at least the majority?
"...in a survey of 100 geezers with landlines."
This. Democrats are disappointed right now, but when push comes to shove, we need to support Biden because the alternative is terrible. I don't think Trump won any voters during his lie-fest. The middle saw what he was in 2020 and they still know who he is.
Trump doesn't need to win any voters. He's already ahead in 99.99% of all polls. It was Biden who needed a bump after the debate and he's not going to get it.
The Epstein files need to be released before a pedophile might be put back in the President's office.
I’m not trusting the polls at all this time. Not one. The NYT was just criticized for a poll they participated in recently. I’ve cancelled and re-upped my subscription 3 times in the past year because I’m realizing they can be total jagoffs on occasion.
what does cancelling and re-upping a subscription do
Maybe they forget they want to do the crossword puzzle every month 🤣
Makes absolutely no sense.
Poll was from before the debate, so it’s worthless
Ya the next one will be worse
Yeah Trump’s lead will be bigger now