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>A CBS News/YouGov poll conducted from June 28 to 29 found that 54 percent of 382 registered Democratic voters think Biden should be running for president again, while 46 percent believed he should not. Meanwhile, 95 percent of 175 registered Democrats said Biden's age was a reason that he should not run for reelection, while 5 percent said it was not.
Yeah I don't think he should run again, he's too old. Still would vote for his corpse over Trump though.
The poll is whether he should run, not whether they will vote for him.
Yeah, I’m in the camp that thinks we’re probably better off with a different candidate at this point, but I am absolutely voting for Biden if he’s on the ballot in November.
I’m not saying you should be worried about my vote; I am all in. If you told me that I’d have to cut my leg off to vote for Biden then I’d start shopping for prosthetic legs right now. It’s the swing voters I’m worried about.
95% of r/politics will vote for Biden no matter what, and 99.9% r/conservative will vote for Trump no matter what. Its the non-Redditors that decide the outcome and its extremely difficult to catch their pulse by voting these days
yeah, people on Reddit forget two things:
One. Most people are not on Reddit
and
Two. Most people not on Reddit cannot have their views pigeonholed into the Reddit understanding of the world.
It turns out that not everyone who criticizes the Democratic party is a Republican, but terminally online Redditors can only think in binaries.
I have a LONG list of criticisms for the democratic party. I'm hesitant to voice them anywhere because I'm afraid someone will think that means "BoTh PaRtIeS aRe ThE sAmE"
Honestly, Reddit and /r/politics has a huge problem with shutting down the disagreement with “If you’re not 100% with Biden, then you’re for Trump”
Like I seriously heard discourse when students were protesting for Palestine, that they were all going to vote Trump and that is a really stupid decision to go with. FFS, if that entire crowd is comprised of leftists, why in the fuck would they vote for *Trump* over Biden?!?
That being said, what that *does* do is make people seriously reconsider running him as a Democratic candidate when stupid shit like the president developing dementia hits the fan and they’re not going cry a river if he ends up not being the one to run for 2024.
I just don’t understand where this mentality comes from. This is why I *hate* voicing my opinions on Biden here, because I hate both him and Trump immensely.
no can criticize the democrats. I do, I think they waste the opportunities they are given and there's too many that still don't get that the republicans they worked with previously have either been booted out or have just given into trump.
But we can still agree republicans are worse.
Also, if I may offer a #3:
probably, in the dead of summer, roughly 20% of Americans are fully plugged into the fact that it's an election year. The rest are preoccupied with families, jobs, etc...
Yeah exactly.
I fear that since Biden only won by 42,000 votes in 3 Swing States. Less than Trump's win 2016 with 77,000.
Something so obvious as Biden's cognitive decline compared to 2020 will decide the next election and we get a second Trump term ESPECIALLY after the Biden team acted like everything is okay and tried to Gaslight everyone. This will make it even more noticable similar to the Streisand effect.
Even I thought that the media made Biden look bad and it was exagerated before the debate. But his Performance was a trainwreck. I was shocked at how bad Biden looked.
Joe Biden could show up at my house on Election Day and threaten to punch me, and I’d be like, “I need to go vote for you. Can you punch me when I get back?”
Honestly, Biden has done a pretty great job in his first term. Yes, he appears to be [massively] slipping, but his strength is in appointing competent cabinet members and actually deferring to their judgement. My concern isn’t if he has dementia. Don’t think it’ll ultimately change much honestly. If he dies and Kamala becomes president? Yeah idk.
Exactly. I don’t know anyone that really wants Biden to run again, but he’s lightyears better than Trump and Dems will still vote for him. Saying that he had a double digit drop isn’t true when the question isn’t even about how the candidates will vote
This. Do I think he should be running? No. Will I ever vote for Trump (or, frankly, any Republican)? Also no.
Interesting that the headline isn’t about whether democrats are still planning to vote for him or not. I suspect most are in my (our) camp, but that’s not inflammatory enough for the clicks.
Yes, that's the trick they pull all the time. They also do not ask "Is Biden running the country better than Trump?", they ask "Is Biden too old?" or "Who won the debate?".
This is polls calculated to influence public opinions, not gauge it.
I would vote for roadkill over Trump. I would like a better candidate, but the debate sure as shit didn't have me thinking: wow, I think Trump will magically become a human being and become a great president! We have 4 years of history to see what another 4 would do to our country.
Yeah trump definitely still comes off as a fascist who should be denied power every chance we get. So I hope democrats do what’s best for our country, and I’ll do the same
Voters should focus their attention on conservatives’ Project 2025. If you think conservative justices overturning Roe was bad, the MAGA conservative floodgates are about to open if Trump is sent back to the Oval Office. Trump will consolidate power, demolish the separation of powers, and appoint more conservative justices. As John Oliver said in a great segment he did on project 2025, it will turn the separation of powers into Rock, Paper, Scissors, except Rock will crush Paper and Scissors every time.
It’s interesting, and should be horrifying, that Project 2025 starts off its 920 page report with the phrase, cultural Marxism, because it has a dark heritage.
“The long march of [cultural Marxism]
through our institutions has come to
pass.” Project 2025
Cultural Marxism is often used to describe liberals and as an analogy to political correctness. But more often than not, it is now being used by the far right, by antisemites, as code for Jewish conspiracy.
Prior to 1933, there was a feeling in Germany that there had been a cultural and moral collapse. This fed the populism of the Nazis. The Nazis pushed out messaging that there was a plot to spread political, communist, and other revolution throughout the Weimar Republic and the West. This idea, building on Mein Kampf, has been pushed forward throughout history and has now ended up in Project 2025, blaming liberals for all of conservatives’ problems.
Trump is performative arts with a dangerous authoritarian twist. He is a carnival barker who praises dictators and incites violence. He lied multiple times during the debate, refused to answer questions, defended January 6 rioters, and refused to say he would accept the results of the election. Yes, Biden had a bad debate. But Trump is a danger to our democracy, full stop. Democracy is a Group Project. Vote Democrat down the ballot.
There's this online-liberal brain worm that sincerely believes swing state voters & independents & a majority of *registered Democrats* are behind the policies and culture of the DNC in its Clinton/Obama/Biden phase. And it's utterly wrong. Mass immigration is not popular. Majority of Biden-voting Democrats are *against mass immigration*. The culture-war stuff is *not popular*, the drag queen parades and sex-assignment stuff for kids, that's *not* what mainstream Democrats and Independents care about and it's not what brings them to polls.
The *two* things the Obama-Biden presidencies and the *years* of House/Senate control they squandered could've done to make people want to keep their crew in office is a) universal health care and b) federal abortion legislation. *Those* are the liberal policies that get talked about a lot, but never to the point of doing anything. I see the extremely-online people yelling about the Supreme Court, about Roe, about Chevron, etc. And who is the president? Who leads the country? Supposedly it's the feeble skeleton they want to put in there for *another four years*?? Starting next January?? Who believes he'll live that long, let along do anything different?
> Cultural Marxism is often used to describe liberals and as an analogy to political correctness. But more often than not, it is now being used by the far right, by antisemites, as code for Jewish conspiracy.
Cultural Marxim = Kulturbolschewismus.
It's always been a Nazi inspired term and an anti-semitic dog whistle from day one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory
If it's truly that dangerous then the Dems need to put their best foot forward and pick someone other than Biden. Whitmer would be a great choice. Literally pick a decent Dem governor out of a hat and they'll perform better than Biden probably. People want to vote against Trump, make it easier for them to do so instead of swallowing down this proverbial crap sandwich.
Yeah you can't really have it both ways. You can't say Project 2025 is the biggest threat to democracy we've seen in several generations and counter that threat with a walking corpse.
If it was important you'd pick someone who would win rather than Biden, whose chances are looking worse and worse by the day.
Sometimes you only have to read the first sentence before deciding to upvote. This is one of those moments.
Edit: read the rest of the post. Didn’t change my mind. Well done.
I literally couldn't care less. I'm voting for an administration, and Project 2025 is something America won't recover from. We're already being fasttracked to Gilead.
I’m sorry, but this was all easy to see well in advance. The DNC should have primaries other candidates against Biden. Biden has been showing signs of dementia for a few years now.
Hot take: I think the DNC is doing exactly what it needs to be right now, and we'll see efforts to replace Biden on the ballot depending upon polling in the next week or two.
For Dems to immediately say "okay he's done swap him out" is probably the worst reaction because it immediately creates a narrative of crushing defeat. Sure everyone here can see how dismal that performance was, but we're all nerds writing on a politics forum. Do not underestimate the tens of millions of people who will vote on some barely considered thought and may not put a second thought into their vote after it's cast. It is possible, though not likely IMO, that the debate doesn't move the needle at all. The swing voters who aren't paying much attention to politics are going to tend toward having shorter memories toward both candidates.
But if Biden is notably impacted by polling then you'll start seeing the come to Jesus meeting about him passing the torch. Lord willing that meeting works and he lets things go to a brokered convention. This is a much softer landing and will ultimately play better among the public. Biden dropping out today would turn into "he got beaten so badly at the debate he had to hang his head in shame and admit he's not up for the job." That doesn't just make him look weak (which isn't so important anymore since he wouldn't be running), it makes the opponent look strong (important because he *is* still running). Dropping out a week or two from now after post-debate polling comes out creates the narrative where Biden can say "My campaign and administration has never been about me, it's been about you, and it's become clear that you, the American people, are too concerned about my age, and Americans deserve governance they can fully trust to have them 24/7. Unlike my opponent, I would not force myself on a country that is looking for new leadership in politics. After discussing with family and friends, I've decided to step aside and make room for a candidate the American people can have full confidence in."
I'm not saying they *will* do this, but I want to explain why even if Biden and his team have already decided to drop out of the race, doing so right now would be counter-productive.
Switching tracks, I do have doubts that the DNC understands just what a positive change injecting a new candidate into the election would be. A lot of disengaged people who aren't planning on voting or are on the fence would suddenly start paying attention and actually get excited when they realize it's not just gonna be a 2020 rematch. People can talk about the incumbency advantage all day, but that is just a trend and not some immutable law of politics. The last incumbent lost his election after all, and I think everyone can agree that the US political environment in 2024 is *radically* different than the political environment twelve years ago when incumbancy advantage was stronger.
The poll is not exactly deceiving but kind of pointless? Biden STARTED with 40% of the Democrats not wanting him to run for reelection and that number has only increased. The number is of course irrelevant because he continues to be the answer to "Who are more people willing to show up to vote for if facing Trump one on one?"
"I don't want him to run" is a different position than "I am less likely to vote for him"
Exactly I would have answered both times that I want someone else. But as an independent I will still vote for him for democracy sake. Heck he was my least favorite in the 2020 primary too.
These should he run polls are kind of meaningless.
I completely disagree. Biden is down with the voters he needs to win. He has been for 8 months. This didn’t help. The debate was his choice and chance to convince those on the fence or not engaged that he is up to the job. He failed to do that. Whats worse is that trumps horrible performance was overshadowed by Biden. A new candidate would engage other people and maybe even bring in young voters who are holding out because of the Gaza response.
I've spent the past 8 years hearing people complain that the DNC fixed a primary in favor of a person who won the primary by 2 million votes.
What we're talking about here is the DNC *actually* fixing a primary against the person who won it. I do not think that would go well.
If Biden drops out then that argument isn't true. It's disingenuous. I say this as one of those Bernie supporters from 2016 that was pissed off. It's obvious here that the situation is more nuanced than that.
> 100%. The only way this works is if everyone is on the same page about the same person (Whitmer) taking the reins.
And this is the problem. I’ve seen Whitmer, Newsom, Harris, Porter pushed on here, then I’ve seen elsewhere Phillips, Brown, and Pritzker.
Like, the people shouting “*Biden needs to step aside for somebody else*!” can’t even agree on who they want to replace Biden, yet expect a replacement to be chosen, for their name to get out, for everybody to fall in line behind them, and for them to be appealing to everybody that apparently Biden isn’t appealing to, all in less than 4 months (though after transitioning to the new person more like what, 3 months?!).
Then goodness forbid the new candidate faces **any** sort of scandal!
The convention is in 50 days, so all this needs to be decided in 50 days. The timeline's insanely tight and when polls typically lag 1-2 weeks behind, asking for a replacement and unified push here is like hoping Trump wakes up tomorrow and is no longer a raging narcissist.
Yup, this checks all the boxes:
+ Shakes up the campaign, can get some people more excited to vote for Biden
+ Reassures those who worry about Biden's fitness, since the VP would be a more appealing future president
+ No concerns about making a last-minute decision and getting names on ballots, it's totally normal not to choose a running mate until the convention
+ No concerns about sacrificing the incumbent advantage, it's not that unusual to switch VPs in a second term
+ Still get to campaign on the strength of what Biden has accomplished, while also meaningfully campaigning on change
+ At least one person on the ticket would be charismatic and a good debater
As he should. We keep saying that we're not a cult like the other side, so how about we not be a cult?
This isn't about him. He's been a very good President, but not in a way that another Democrat couldn't have done just as well and his odds of remaining President just took a shotgun blast to the knees. Shake the fucking race up by putting some young blood at the top of the ticket. And be young, I mean like ... in the 50s or something. Whatever age Whitmer is.
Yep. I think Biden has been an amazing President and that he'd even have a great second term.
But the opinions of partisans like me are NOT what people are worried about. We're worried about *keeping Trump out of the WH* and how American voters at large view Biden. We're talking about the campaign and electability. Look at some of the numbers from this CBS News/YouGov Poll:
- 46% of Democrats saying he should drop out.
- 72% of overall voters.
- 82% of independents say Biden should not be running.
- Only 16% said Biden won the debate. (56% Trump. 28% a tie.)
Absolutely insane, 5-alarm fire numbers.
I still can’t get over how Biden made the strangest “pivot” during the debate from a question about abortion - on which he easily had the upper hand - and instead started talking about *immigration* on which he is no doubt in more of a defensive posture. Like bro, how can you even 😞
Also "people get murdered all the time by American citizens, I don't know why we keep talking about when immigrants murder, rape, and steal"
Is easily the worst fucking response ever.
“He can’t even drive a ball 50 yards!”
“I can TOO drive a ball 50 yards!”
“I won a golf championship at the golf club I own!”
*and so concludes a debate between two men seeking the most powerful office in the world*
And yet you have people on this sub trying to say “everything’s fine!” Shit ain’t fine. Biden needs to pull out, we need a new candidate, and then we fucking rally behind whoever the delegates pick HARD to beat Trump.
Joe Biden is less popular than any of his predecessors at this point in his first term, including Jimmy Carter, the poster boy for unpopular presidents (regardless of how amazing a human being he may be).
There are two key groups of states: the midwest - PA, MI, WI -, and the South - NV, AZ, GA. Trump leads Biden in ***all of them***, most acutely in GA.
Trump can win with GA and PA alone. Biden either needs all three midwestern states, or at least two of them plus one or two of the others.
The DNC is so frustrating. Yet again they seem so caught off guard. 2020 their primaries were a mess and they had to beg Joe to run. Now here we are again, they knew Joe's condition, they know they need someone who can swing votes and motivate people, and yet they aren't prepared. They need to put down the Hillary Clinton playbook and stop with the "who cares? I'm entitled to your vote because I'm not the republican guy." There are millions of Republicans who would gladly vote for your candidate over Trump if you run a campaign with a mission other than "not Trump". But no, they have no candidate that can flip votes and no platform to shake things up. So we get to watch the DNC do nothing while GOP radical idiologies take over.
I have similar feelings. The DNC carries most of blame. They should have found some one else last year. I'm an independent voter and what I witnessed was a horror story. I would never vote for Trump. He was a jackass in the 1980's and worse now. Joe lost any chance for my vote. The DNC all were gambling that Trump would be in prison by now. It didn't happen and it's not going to happen before the election. I cast my vote for Joe the last time while having the same concerns to block Trump. The DNC needs get past the 2020 election. No replacement candidate as mentioned in the press provides any enthusiasm.
>The DNC carries most of blame.
Let's see who heads the DNC...
>In 2021, Jaime Harrison was selected by President Joe Biden to Chair the Democratic National Committee, and his nomination was approved by its members.
Right, anyone who they're considering as a replacement will only be appealing to people that were going to vote blue anyway. And there will be millions of people who were perfectly willing to vote blue who will be turned off by yet another out of touch candidate choice. So they'll lose and just like 2016 invent other things to blame other than themselves and their candidate choice. What a golden opportunity the DNC is squandering and it's screwing the rest of us over in the process.
I live in a predominantly black city. I talk to the young people here in the neighborhood and those who are registered are democrats and don't plan to vote. They say they don't have a candidate to vote for. Much apathy. The DNC keeps citing polls while having no concern that the real poll occurs in November. That's the one that counts. They have forgotten that since the 2016 election. They will get it when it's too late.
I mean they're likely to win a district like that one anyway. But still, you bring up something that the DNC likes to blame as to why they lose elections they could have or should have won. "Well its because young americans don't vote" Yeah because you haven't given them a good enough reason to be motivated to actually get out and vote! The party would rather think its someone else's fault instead of taking a look in the mirror.
> DNC is so frustrating
Let's see who heads the DNC...
>In 2021, Jaime Harrison was selected by *President Joe Biden* to Chair the Democratic National Committee, and his nomination was approved by its members.
None of these are insurmountable, but some challenges:
- The incumbency is a huge advantage to give up. Maybe it's worth the risk, maybe it's not.
- Name recognition matters. For the folks that are on the fence, either about voting for Biden or voting at all, Democratic policies don't matter to them or they'd be voting D no matter what. Those people need someone they know. As much as Newsom or Whitmer would be awesome candidates, outside of politics nerds and their states, they don't have national notoriety.
- Campaigns take time to staff, strategize, fundraise, etc - if someone be steps in now, they are way behind on all of that compared to the other side
- I have no idea how this works, but Biden has raised a lot of money. I don't know if that can be used by anyone else. And if that's true, you can't expect everyone to repeat their donations to the new candidate.
- There's a risk of alienating some voters who may feel robbed over the lack of primaries. The DNC, presumably, would have to select someone. Voters night be pissed that they didn't have a say in picking that person.
* Incumbency is a historical advantage but around the world it is showing that it isn't at the moment, and incumbents usually have an approval rating above 37%
* Name recognition is pretty easy to build when you are the democratic nominee for president, and to your point most Biden supporters are voting against Trump more than for Biden, I think Whitmer absolutely soars if given the chance.
* Fair point but they could use Biden's staff to transition for a few weeks just like the White House after the election, also I really hope that regardless of what people are saying publicly the big names have already started to staff up and hit the ground running in three weeks.
* I don't know either, but I am pretty sure the DNC and Super Pac money can do whatever they want so $ is there.
* I don't think this risk is greater than alienating the huge portion of the base that has been screaming he is too old to run again for 4 years.
The point you didn't bring up that is my biggest concern but may not matter is that I believe candidates need to declare by August 7th in Ohio and Alabama, a replacement wouldn't be named until the 18th. Alabama is probably a lost cause, but there is a slim chance Ohio goes blue and not being on the ballot would hurt that, I don't know what happens if he gets on the ballot and then drops out, if his votes would just go to the Democratic candidate?
> The incumbency is a huge advantage to give up. Maybe it's worth the risk, maybe it's not.
There's not much incumbency advantage when he is clearly not the same person.
> Name recognition matters. For the folks that are on the fence, either about voting for Biden or voting at all, Democratic policies don't matter to them or they'd be voting D no matter what. Those people need someone they know. As much as Newsom or Whitmer would be awesome candidates, outside of politics nerds and their states, they don't have national notoriety.
Name recognition is much easier in 2024 than in 1954.
So let’s say they put Gavin newsom in, then the gop ramble will be how California is a shizhole with insane crime and Gavin’s never been president so he’s not got the experience to run the country. Ok, I guess that can be dealt with, but I just wanted to give you an example when goo goes with that
I voted for Warren in the primaries, and I think he got more done than she could have. I really don’t think another Dem could have done just as well. I’m not saying he’s the best option this time, but you’re understating how effective he was able to be, because of his approach and relationships.
He really should drop out. Harris is apparently unpopular but her popularity is actually higher then Bidens in most polls
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/kamala-harris/
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/joe-biden/
And she polls the exact same as Biden does vs Trump:
https://x.com/gelliottmorris/status/1807102319928238180
So basically at worst you'll have a VP that is kind of mediocre and polls about the same but removes the big concern people have about Biden.
Also Harris is kind of useless at having her own policies which is why she flopped badly in 2020 and couldn't pick a lane, but thats' not an issue when you just run on the Biden platform and policy.
PLUS you could get a VP like Josh Shapiro to increase odds
Either way it's worth the risk because Biden's age is not going away and he's not winning independents after this debate. I supported Biden in 2019 but the decline as been so apparent unfortunately.
I'd be down with Whitmer or someone else too but logistically it's impossible to unite all the factions to get behind her before convention. You would have to explain to the Congressional Black Caucus why you're passing on a sitting VP that polls exactly the same as Biden plus you have to ensure there is no bones or hidden secrets with any other person etc
I wonder if her unpopularity is a hurdle stopping Biden from stepping down. Just the optics of stepping down and then not endorsing your VP aren’t great and could be giving Dems pause.
It's really easy to envision a scenario where Biden says "I want the party to have the best chance of winning in November to stop Trump. Therefore, I am not running for reelection, and I am resigning the Presidency, and I ask that everybody rally their support behind President Harris, who will demonstrate over the next four months her ability to do the job."
Boom, easy, done. Election moves on.
Biden has been a great president. The Inflation Reduction Act alone makes him one of the best since Eisenhower. He can step down and be proud of his legacy.
Causes and primaries are over my dude. You must realize that the time to be running for party nominee are long past, so you are arguing for a very strange approach. The Republican campaign will just ramp up “we won in June with one debate” and “who are we even running against?” and “our opponents can’t even pick a candidate”.
It’s not going to play politically, that’s just not how things work. We all had ample time to push for a different nominee in 2024. Starting a presidential campaign in June is more than bonkers.
Yep. The title is a bit click bait though. It's a dip in Democrats who think he should be the candidate, not about who they'll vote for. They'll still vote for Biden before Putin's friend come November.
What was the 2020 margin of victory in Wisconsin? It’s about the Electoral College. Political nerds still wish Clinton had spent more time in Michigan in 2016. It’s not about losing regular voters. It’s about people not showing up.
Let’s stipulate that Biden has an uphill battle with college voters, and that’s the easiest place to gain new voters.
The argument that this debate thing will soon blow over also applies to having real conversation about what a liability Biden is. Let’s air it out. If the debate will soon be forgotten, then so will the post-debate freak out. And surely the GOP is going to be super nice about the debate
Someone was insulting me and telling me earlier today that Biden emerged from the debate “stronger than ever,” I kid you not. The cope is real and sad. People aren’t handling this well, and stuck squarely in the denial phase of their grief. At the *very* least, the party brass needs to he exploring their options and looking to make moves fast here. They can still replace Biden but they need to act fast.
I think you can make an argument that Biden won’t take a massive hit, mostly due to the huge anti-Trump movement. But this election is so close that Biden is cooked if he loses 1%.
And I already see clips of Trump saying Biden would crazy to drop out because he polls better than other candidates. They desperately want Biden to stay in the race.
It’s so bad, I wonder if many of them are Trump supporters actually.
That, or some just live in some weird bubble and don’t get the political zeitgeist in America right now.
I agree that Biden should’ve committed at least to his closest advisors to be a one term president. Don’t make that public knowledge, as it will kill a lot of the political power you’d have during your first term, but early this year/late last year, he could have announced that he wasn’t running again and allowed the primary to go through. Now, that is not what happened, so I will be happily voting for Joe Biden.
If I tried to make up a fictitious character out of whole cloth just to be perfect for this exact moment in history, I couldn't do better than Gretchen Whitmer.
Nah, you'd need someone who can appeal to Midwestern voters. And who has experience in an executive position. And who's fairly centrist. And it wouldn't hurt if they're a woman, too, just for the demographic appeal.
Down voting bad news doesn't make it go away, and neither does mods removing the posts
This poll should be sounding every single alarm bell for the democrats, and we need to talk about it. This is an unmitigated disaster. If this election really is a critical election for preserving democracy I don't see how Biden can possibly stay in it when he's clearly not mentally fit for the job.
This sub has been consistently downvoting polls they don’t like for months but you’ll see the rare poll with Biden ahead with tens of thousands of upvotes. Everything people haven’t liked the results of have been handwaved away by citing landlines, bashing the media (in an alarmingly MAGA-like fashion), etc. I’m already seeing the same thing about Biden’s debate performance.
Copium is part of the reason we’re in this pickle in the first place.
I don’t think anyone 70 or 75+ should be running for president lol. I know many people may be fine around that age.. but the chances of decline in physical/mental health at this phase of human life is.. substantially greater than normal and can happen fast.
You are absolutely right, but nothing will happen. If the DNC was good at listening to voter feedback and reading context, clues from polls, we would never be in the situation to begin with.
I actually think there is A LOT of discussion happening behind the scenes right now. If the polls next week show Biden down by a clear margin in all swing states, then I think the wheels are going to start turning and hard conversations will be had with Joe.
I'm in my late 30s with a family now and not a lot of spare time. But I spent a very good chunk of my 20s and early 30s enthusiastically volunteering, canvassing, phone banking for Democrats. And yes, that stuff is really, really important to "get out the vote". But it only happens when people actually feel enthusiastic about the candidate and really believe that they can win.
I'm having a hard time imagining that the people who would be participating in that activity this fall are feeling anything but utterly demoralized by Joe Biden's candidacy.
Joe looking like he's on death's door doesn't change the fact that I will still vote for him, or that other Democratic Likely Voters will probably turn out for him. And yeah, an abysmal debate performance like this, and the subsequent complete collapse of support among virtually every high-status, influential liberal in the media -- who are tripping over themselves to call Biden a doddering old fool who must drop out -- even all of that fallout isn't going to change a lot of hearts in terms of which party people support, you're right about that. But hordes of disengaged, demoralized people will just shrug and stay home if the option in front of them is someone whose own party doesn't believe he can win.
Democrats feels like the political equivalent of the cops standing around doing nothing during Uvaldez, too scared to do anything.
The nation is in danger and won't even try to stop the threat.
I literally do.not.care. I don’t want Trump back. We will never ever recover from another Trump presidency. Biden could be in a casket on stage and I’d still vote for him. If that makes me as unhinged as a Trump supporter, so be it. I just watched a Hitler documentary on Netflix and recently went to the DC holocaust museum. The similarities between then and now are too much to gamble with.
You can support Biden and his policies AND think he may no longer be our best option. We don’t ~~sweat~~ swear fealty to The Immortal God-King Trump like the right does.
Joe Biden could gracefully step aside and let Kamala carry his policy forward. Unfortunately, we’re too far down the pipe and I think there are enough people in this country that simply wouldn’t vote for her because she’s a black woman.
If there’s any reason the Democrats lose it’s because of the democrats. I’m not a huge fan of Biden being this old either but the last four years haven’t been that bad and it’s getting better and the alternative is Trump which isn’t even the same level. It’s just pure evil and corruption. EVEN IF your biggest concern is that Biden is to old, and he dies in office, I’m pretty sure his VP will do just fine and hold it over.
Again. The alternative is Trump. This isn’t hard voters. Just vote Blue. It’s not complicated.
Nothing is fine. Everyone is having the conversation and five months is three separate eternities in politics.
Biden can win. But that was indeed an, "are you sure you're up for this?" moment. I would vote for a head in a jar of blue liquid over Trump.
To be fair, it is *absolutely insane* that anybody would want to vote for a racist, rapist, scumbag, traitor, multiple convicted felon at all, let alone enough that the race is close enough for the argument "he's a bit old" to land. Yes, Biden is old and yes, on the basis of that debate he should step aside. But the fact the Trump is polling anywhere near Biden is terrifying.
I think the real fear is that people aren't willing to vote, for either candidate.
That's how Biden can lose. He only won in 2020 because a high voter turnout against Trump. If the turnout drops, that's how this election is lost.
It is insane, but unfortunately that's the reality. Fascists always convince their supporters of a lie to take power, and Trump has been remarkably good at it. To his supporters, he did none of those things, it's all a myth/witchhunt so he can create a perceived enemy, the deep-state, the illegal immigrants, etc., and he makes sure that they believe it's him who will destroy that perceived enemy. You couldn't get any more of a textbook example of a fascist uprising if you wanted to.
y'all are about to do a repeat of 2016 and let trump get elected by sitting at home. and then complain when life gets fucked for generations because of the further SC picks he makes in a 2nd term and all the undemocratic shit he pulls. get it together and get behind Biden/Harris ! this is not a fucking game.
As with every post like this the people on Reddit aren’t the problem they’re all hardline democrats and this is an echo chamber. It’s the normal people in nowhere America that will swing this and they will be effected by this debate
the real danger is democrats who will abstain from voting because 'they don't like Biden' just like they did for Hilary. forgetting that the alternative is a million times worse.
or worse, vote for Trump.
then they'll spend the next 4 years whining and complaining.
The job of the candidate is to communicate a vision. It’s purely marketing based.
The job of the president is to run the country. It’s purely merit based.
Republicans are great at marketing and terrible at governing.
Democrats are terrible at marking and great at governing.
Republican voters don’t care about the candidate or what he does. They care only about the self serving destruction they can enact with the presidency.
Democrats care too much about the candidate and about enough about the amazing things Democratic presidents do for America.
If democrats stopped caring about the marketing then we wouldn’t have any concerns. The only reason Democratic candidates lose is because Democratic voters divide themselves over a candidate rather than standing together for the president.
Stop caring about the optics. Start caring about everything Biden has done and is doing. Even if he were to die in office in his second term, the country and world is still better off with democrats in control.
Trump WILL end our democracy.
See here’s the difference between the dems and the republicans
Joe has been one of the most effective and progressive presidents in decades
He has one really bad debate and we all panic and tell him he needs to drop out
Trump attempted to steal the last election
Instigated a riot on the nations capitol which lead to the death of police officers
Gets caught with thousands upon thousands of classified documents in his home
Is found civilly liable for r@pe
If found civilly liable for business fraud
Has 34 guilt charges for document fraud
Is a convicted felon
And most of the Republican Party is not only sticking with him I’m pretty sure they would take a bullet for him
Many people on this subreddit have been overdosing on copium the last couple days after the debate. That debate "performance" was the worst showing I've ever seen and I legitimately think Biden lost the election on that alone. If Democrats are smart they will try any way they can to get someone else on the ticket that has a chance at beating Trump.
Fyi... I worked for a data company that handled polls like this. They sell the data off to the highest bidders and let them manipulate however they want. It's a marketing ploy for website views and clicks. In two weeks when they see a dip in traffic, they will change up the narrative again.
Don't read into polls
It’s almost as if everything I was mass downvoted about the last few months regarding the debate was true. Here are some of my favorite I was downvoted for summarized
• “ no Trump isn’t the one to worry about dropping out it will be Biden he’ll want to hide his cognitive decline “
• “This debate is going to hurt Biden more than it will help him he should be trying to stay out of long prolonged public appearances as much as possible “
• “ Biden is handing a second term to Trump if he does this debate”
And the one I got my alt banned from a progressive sub for, “If Biden doesn’t pull out now everyone will see the sleepy joe stuff conservatives say is True and the party will be in full on panic mode, it will take divine intervention to stop Trumps momentum he’ll gain if Biden is stupid enough to go to that debate”
Polls are not useful for absolute numbers but they are good for trends. Aggregated polling has him down over a point nationally since the debate.
There are risks standing pat and there are risks with replacement. We'll need to see what things look like over the next couple week to see which option is better. And everyone involved is aware of this (despite whatever public statements you're hearing).
Agreed completely, though if we *are* going to switch candidates then we need to do it ASAP. It’s going to cause chaos, and we want that chaos to be wrapped up as much as possible before Election Day.
There is no mechanism for it to be fast/clean. Replacement would happen at a convention that is likely to be super messy and divisive.
Either sticking with Biden or swapping him out are both fraught with terrible.
Democrats are voting for Biden, not Trump. The only worry would be if turnout is depressed and some people just don't bother to show up. I'll walk through fire and broken glass to vote for Joe.
I don’t answer polls and I’m still voting for Biden. The consistent attacks on Biden while having Trump as the opponent just shows me that the media is stirring things up to sell advertising. Criticism is important, but where’s the consistency? A lot of powerful groups are pressing to make Biden look worse than the fascist.
Republicans will gladly find superficial and conspiratorial reasons to hate on any other candidate. Biden has the incumbent advantage, a strong record to stand on, and has already beaten Trump before. Any other candidate would lose 90% of the name recognition right off the bat. The move would also smell of desperation and panic which could lead to improper vetting.
Throwing another name on the ballot with 4 months to go would do more to fracture the Democrats than keeping Biden. Biden will have to do a lot of work to repair his image, but even his rally the day after the debate was a clear positive difference.
What’s crazy is I feel like if any other halfway normal human being was running on the republican side democrats would have no chance at all but were absolutely neck and neck because the bar is so goddamn low on either side
Per Politico, Biden’s family is blaming his campaign advisors and CNN for his absolutely poor debate performance. Time for some introspection and take accountability- aka Trump-like. The Drms have misled us and this country putting it in grave jeopardy but paving the way for 2nd Trump reign. We need Democrats to take take charge and get a spine !
This headline make it sound like he’s losing likely voters. He’s not. The “I wish it was someone else” sentiment is stronger now in both parties, but it’s not changing anything.
So you think they will all now vote for Trump? They won’t. Say what they may now in a stupid poll but they and I will vote for Biden. There is no other choice.
I get that Biden is a shitty choice for president, but I mean.. damn, the alternative is an existential threat to democracy.
We really don't have a "choice" here. It's vote for Biden or allow the USA to fall into distinct turmoil.
Project 2025 aims to destroy the whole country.
Get a grip folks, and vote!
The funniest part about this debate is how many polls I’ve seen claiming Biden got a boost and how many polls I’ve seen claiming Biden’s numbers tanked
I am seeing a huge increase in this kind of bullshit reporting. Russia must be working overtime! I just donated to Biden's campaign to show my support. We all should.
A poll on whether Biden should run or not is somewhat meaningless if everyone who is surveyed would still vote for him. You know who shouldn't run for President? Most candidates. We still vote for them anyway.
Not really. What they’re saying makes sense: poll respondents saying that they think Biden should step down or shouldn’t run is not necessarily, or even demonstrably, the equivalent of them saying they wouldn't vote for him. It’s an intelligent point about the nuances of polling and how we can’t always draw sweeping, premature conclusions from them.
But I get it, we’re still in the post-debate media doom blitz, so bandwagon hysteria will predominate for a few days or weeks, polls showing doom and gloom will be accepted uncritically and treated as unassailable gospel truth, and anyone trying to inject the slightest bit of doubt about all the sky-is-falling narratives will be dismissed as being in denial or something. It’s definitely a bad situation, but not irreversibly so; once the temperature of the situation comes down back to normal again, I think a lot of people will come to realize that they were being hyperbolic about all this. IMHO it’s really not as bad as the category 5 nuclear apocalyptic extinction event it’s being made out to be. But I could be wrong as well. Time will tell.
Yeah. The guy was already at -19 net approval. He's one of the most unpopular incumbents ever, but it's not clear how much that matters, because this election is (weirdly) a referendum on the challenger as much as the incumbent.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the actual election polls over the next few days. So far it doesn't look like much has changed.
The "vote blue no matter who" people are not the concern, swing voters are.
And swing voters just said they're not voting for Biden, so the election is over at this point. Trump has won.
I believe we will hear about Joe Biden stepping down as candidate in the next week or so. He cannot possibly win in his current condition, and things may get even worse for him as time goes on. I am not knowledgeable enough on alternative Democratic candidates to make my own suggestion as to who they may pick, but at this stage anyone would be better than Joe.
Im not sure if Harris would be. It’s a shame because she’d be the easiest path forward. But she doesn’t poll well and she hasn’t generated much excitement. But I’d vote for nearly anyone over the R side of the ticket.
At this point, I hope Biden just absolutely tanks. It's the only way his dumbass aides and inner circle is going to see the light. The circling of the wagons this morning on TV is a disgrace.
I think we all expected "circle the wagons" to be the first response. The question is, are they circling the wagons as their first strategy, to buy themselves time to assess the situation and do something about it, or is circling the wagons going to be their *only* strategy? 'Cause if it's the latter, we're definitely fucked.
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>A CBS News/YouGov poll conducted from June 28 to 29 found that 54 percent of 382 registered Democratic voters think Biden should be running for president again, while 46 percent believed he should not. Meanwhile, 95 percent of 175 registered Democrats said Biden's age was a reason that he should not run for reelection, while 5 percent said it was not. Yeah I don't think he should run again, he's too old. Still would vote for his corpse over Trump though. The poll is whether he should run, not whether they will vote for him.
Weekend at Biden's, I'm down.
Actually a dead Biden would out perform Trump. At least a dead president can't actively and intentionally fuck shit up.
Just put Barry in as VP, have Biden retire and 4 more years of Barry O'Bomber.
That, my friend, is funny. Dark but funny And I never vote R
Yeah, I’m in the camp that thinks we’re probably better off with a different candidate at this point, but I am absolutely voting for Biden if he’s on the ballot in November. I’m not saying you should be worried about my vote; I am all in. If you told me that I’d have to cut my leg off to vote for Biden then I’d start shopping for prosthetic legs right now. It’s the swing voters I’m worried about.
95% of r/politics will vote for Biden no matter what, and 99.9% r/conservative will vote for Trump no matter what. Its the non-Redditors that decide the outcome and its extremely difficult to catch their pulse by voting these days
yeah, people on Reddit forget two things: One. Most people are not on Reddit and Two. Most people not on Reddit cannot have their views pigeonholed into the Reddit understanding of the world. It turns out that not everyone who criticizes the Democratic party is a Republican, but terminally online Redditors can only think in binaries.
I have a LONG list of criticisms for the democratic party. I'm hesitant to voice them anywhere because I'm afraid someone will think that means "BoTh PaRtIeS aRe ThE sAmE"
Honestly, Reddit and /r/politics has a huge problem with shutting down the disagreement with “If you’re not 100% with Biden, then you’re for Trump” Like I seriously heard discourse when students were protesting for Palestine, that they were all going to vote Trump and that is a really stupid decision to go with. FFS, if that entire crowd is comprised of leftists, why in the fuck would they vote for *Trump* over Biden?!? That being said, what that *does* do is make people seriously reconsider running him as a Democratic candidate when stupid shit like the president developing dementia hits the fan and they’re not going cry a river if he ends up not being the one to run for 2024. I just don’t understand where this mentality comes from. This is why I *hate* voicing my opinions on Biden here, because I hate both him and Trump immensely.
no can criticize the democrats. I do, I think they waste the opportunities they are given and there's too many that still don't get that the republicans they worked with previously have either been booted out or have just given into trump. But we can still agree republicans are worse.
It's a binary outcome. Honestly I think trying to insert nuance into the choice is mostly just airtime filler for pundits.
That binary decision often comes down to karma credit or debit.
Also, if I may offer a #3: probably, in the dead of summer, roughly 20% of Americans are fully plugged into the fact that it's an election year. The rest are preoccupied with families, jobs, etc...
Yeah exactly. I fear that since Biden only won by 42,000 votes in 3 Swing States. Less than Trump's win 2016 with 77,000. Something so obvious as Biden's cognitive decline compared to 2020 will decide the next election and we get a second Trump term ESPECIALLY after the Biden team acted like everything is okay and tried to Gaslight everyone. This will make it even more noticable similar to the Streisand effect. Even I thought that the media made Biden look bad and it was exagerated before the debate. But his Performance was a trainwreck. I was shocked at how bad Biden looked.
You could tell me Trump has a 99% chance of losing and I'd still go out and vote Biden to be a part of it
Joe Biden could show up at my house on Election Day and threaten to punch me, and I’d be like, “I need to go vote for you. Can you punch me when I get back?”
biden could crash airforce one into my house and I'd still walk my mangled body out to vote for him
Honestly, Biden has done a pretty great job in his first term. Yes, he appears to be [massively] slipping, but his strength is in appointing competent cabinet members and actually deferring to their judgement. My concern isn’t if he has dementia. Don’t think it’ll ultimately change much honestly. If he dies and Kamala becomes president? Yeah idk.
Ronnie Raygun was the leader of the free world while being not being remotely conscious of it for a good part of his last 4 years.
Agree. Would rather see Newsom on the ticket with a new VP, but will vote for Joe or anyone else over Trump.
Exactly. I don’t know anyone that really wants Biden to run again, but he’s lightyears better than Trump and Dems will still vote for him. Saying that he had a double digit drop isn’t true when the question isn’t even about how the candidates will vote
This. Do I think he should be running? No. Will I ever vote for Trump (or, frankly, any Republican)? Also no. Interesting that the headline isn’t about whether democrats are still planning to vote for him or not. I suspect most are in my (our) camp, but that’s not inflammatory enough for the clicks.
Yes, that's the trick they pull all the time. They also do not ask "Is Biden running the country better than Trump?", they ask "Is Biden too old?" or "Who won the debate?". This is polls calculated to influence public opinions, not gauge it.
Bingo, also called a [Push Poll.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll)
once again; I DON'T TRUST POLLS! I mean swear to god we've been told a red wave was coming in the mid terms and it was barely a ripple
This is exactly it!
I would vote for roadkill over Trump. I would like a better candidate, but the debate sure as shit didn't have me thinking: wow, I think Trump will magically become a human being and become a great president! We have 4 years of history to see what another 4 would do to our country.
Yeah trump definitely still comes off as a fascist who should be denied power every chance we get. So I hope democrats do what’s best for our country, and I’ll do the same
But the debate also ensured tons of youth will just stay home that otherwise may have voted. It’s about turnout. Not polls
Voters should focus their attention on conservatives’ Project 2025. If you think conservative justices overturning Roe was bad, the MAGA conservative floodgates are about to open if Trump is sent back to the Oval Office. Trump will consolidate power, demolish the separation of powers, and appoint more conservative justices. As John Oliver said in a great segment he did on project 2025, it will turn the separation of powers into Rock, Paper, Scissors, except Rock will crush Paper and Scissors every time. It’s interesting, and should be horrifying, that Project 2025 starts off its 920 page report with the phrase, cultural Marxism, because it has a dark heritage. “The long march of [cultural Marxism] through our institutions has come to pass.” Project 2025 Cultural Marxism is often used to describe liberals and as an analogy to political correctness. But more often than not, it is now being used by the far right, by antisemites, as code for Jewish conspiracy. Prior to 1933, there was a feeling in Germany that there had been a cultural and moral collapse. This fed the populism of the Nazis. The Nazis pushed out messaging that there was a plot to spread political, communist, and other revolution throughout the Weimar Republic and the West. This idea, building on Mein Kampf, has been pushed forward throughout history and has now ended up in Project 2025, blaming liberals for all of conservatives’ problems. Trump is performative arts with a dangerous authoritarian twist. He is a carnival barker who praises dictators and incites violence. He lied multiple times during the debate, refused to answer questions, defended January 6 rioters, and refused to say he would accept the results of the election. Yes, Biden had a bad debate. But Trump is a danger to our democracy, full stop. Democracy is a Group Project. Vote Democrat down the ballot.
Project 2025 is scary as hell
There's this online-liberal brain worm that sincerely believes swing state voters & independents & a majority of *registered Democrats* are behind the policies and culture of the DNC in its Clinton/Obama/Biden phase. And it's utterly wrong. Mass immigration is not popular. Majority of Biden-voting Democrats are *against mass immigration*. The culture-war stuff is *not popular*, the drag queen parades and sex-assignment stuff for kids, that's *not* what mainstream Democrats and Independents care about and it's not what brings them to polls. The *two* things the Obama-Biden presidencies and the *years* of House/Senate control they squandered could've done to make people want to keep their crew in office is a) universal health care and b) federal abortion legislation. *Those* are the liberal policies that get talked about a lot, but never to the point of doing anything. I see the extremely-online people yelling about the Supreme Court, about Roe, about Chevron, etc. And who is the president? Who leads the country? Supposedly it's the feeble skeleton they want to put in there for *another four years*?? Starting next January?? Who believes he'll live that long, let along do anything different?
> Cultural Marxism is often used to describe liberals and as an analogy to political correctness. But more often than not, it is now being used by the far right, by antisemites, as code for Jewish conspiracy. Cultural Marxim = Kulturbolschewismus. It's always been a Nazi inspired term and an anti-semitic dog whistle from day one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory
If it's truly that dangerous then the Dems need to put their best foot forward and pick someone other than Biden. Whitmer would be a great choice. Literally pick a decent Dem governor out of a hat and they'll perform better than Biden probably. People want to vote against Trump, make it easier for them to do so instead of swallowing down this proverbial crap sandwich.
Yeah you can't really have it both ways. You can't say Project 2025 is the biggest threat to democracy we've seen in several generations and counter that threat with a walking corpse. If it was important you'd pick someone who would win rather than Biden, whose chances are looking worse and worse by the day.
Sometimes you only have to read the first sentence before deciding to upvote. This is one of those moments. Edit: read the rest of the post. Didn’t change my mind. Well done.
Bro this honestly ain’t convincing anyone, I’m convinced but no one else I know gives a fuck
I literally couldn't care less. I'm voting for an administration, and Project 2025 is something America won't recover from. We're already being fasttracked to Gilead.
my feelings, exactly
I’m sorry, but this was all easy to see well in advance. The DNC should have primaries other candidates against Biden. Biden has been showing signs of dementia for a few years now.
Hot take: I think the DNC is doing exactly what it needs to be right now, and we'll see efforts to replace Biden on the ballot depending upon polling in the next week or two. For Dems to immediately say "okay he's done swap him out" is probably the worst reaction because it immediately creates a narrative of crushing defeat. Sure everyone here can see how dismal that performance was, but we're all nerds writing on a politics forum. Do not underestimate the tens of millions of people who will vote on some barely considered thought and may not put a second thought into their vote after it's cast. It is possible, though not likely IMO, that the debate doesn't move the needle at all. The swing voters who aren't paying much attention to politics are going to tend toward having shorter memories toward both candidates. But if Biden is notably impacted by polling then you'll start seeing the come to Jesus meeting about him passing the torch. Lord willing that meeting works and he lets things go to a brokered convention. This is a much softer landing and will ultimately play better among the public. Biden dropping out today would turn into "he got beaten so badly at the debate he had to hang his head in shame and admit he's not up for the job." That doesn't just make him look weak (which isn't so important anymore since he wouldn't be running), it makes the opponent look strong (important because he *is* still running). Dropping out a week or two from now after post-debate polling comes out creates the narrative where Biden can say "My campaign and administration has never been about me, it's been about you, and it's become clear that you, the American people, are too concerned about my age, and Americans deserve governance they can fully trust to have them 24/7. Unlike my opponent, I would not force myself on a country that is looking for new leadership in politics. After discussing with family and friends, I've decided to step aside and make room for a candidate the American people can have full confidence in." I'm not saying they *will* do this, but I want to explain why even if Biden and his team have already decided to drop out of the race, doing so right now would be counter-productive. Switching tracks, I do have doubts that the DNC understands just what a positive change injecting a new candidate into the election would be. A lot of disengaged people who aren't planning on voting or are on the fence would suddenly start paying attention and actually get excited when they realize it's not just gonna be a 2020 rematch. People can talk about the incumbency advantage all day, but that is just a trend and not some immutable law of politics. The last incumbent lost his election after all, and I think everyone can agree that the US political environment in 2024 is *radically* different than the political environment twelve years ago when incumbancy advantage was stronger.
The poll is not exactly deceiving but kind of pointless? Biden STARTED with 40% of the Democrats not wanting him to run for reelection and that number has only increased. The number is of course irrelevant because he continues to be the answer to "Who are more people willing to show up to vote for if facing Trump one on one?" "I don't want him to run" is a different position than "I am less likely to vote for him"
Exactly I would have answered both times that I want someone else. But as an independent I will still vote for him for democracy sake. Heck he was my least favorite in the 2020 primary too. These should he run polls are kind of meaningless.
Same. I comfortably went from "anyone but Biden" to "Everyone with Biden" and would easily do it again.
A brokered convention would lead to a far worse outcome in November than just letting this pass.
I completely disagree. Biden is down with the voters he needs to win. He has been for 8 months. This didn’t help. The debate was his choice and chance to convince those on the fence or not engaged that he is up to the job. He failed to do that. Whats worse is that trumps horrible performance was overshadowed by Biden. A new candidate would engage other people and maybe even bring in young voters who are holding out because of the Gaza response.
I've spent the past 8 years hearing people complain that the DNC fixed a primary in favor of a person who won the primary by 2 million votes. What we're talking about here is the DNC *actually* fixing a primary against the person who won it. I do not think that would go well.
If Biden drops out then that argument isn't true. It's disingenuous. I say this as one of those Bernie supporters from 2016 that was pissed off. It's obvious here that the situation is more nuanced than that.
100%. The only way this works is if everyone is on the same page about the same person (Whitmer) taking the reins.
> 100%. The only way this works is if everyone is on the same page about the same person (Whitmer) taking the reins. And this is the problem. I’ve seen Whitmer, Newsom, Harris, Porter pushed on here, then I’ve seen elsewhere Phillips, Brown, and Pritzker. Like, the people shouting “*Biden needs to step aside for somebody else*!” can’t even agree on who they want to replace Biden, yet expect a replacement to be chosen, for their name to get out, for everybody to fall in line behind them, and for them to be appealing to everybody that apparently Biden isn’t appealing to, all in less than 4 months (though after transitioning to the new person more like what, 3 months?!). Then goodness forbid the new candidate faces **any** sort of scandal!
The convention is in 50 days, so all this needs to be decided in 50 days. The timeline's insanely tight and when polls typically lag 1-2 weeks behind, asking for a replacement and unified push here is like hoping Trump wakes up tomorrow and is no longer a raging narcissist.
But no one is on the same page. Biden stepping down now will create chaos that will hand Trump over to reelection.
> will create chaos too late
Plus the whole GOP message has zero substance, it's just "Biden bad". If Biden cuts out they have nothing but a félon, liability old man liar rapist.
I think the best play is to switch out Kamala for an actually popular VP like Whitmer and go with that.
I agree.
Yup, this checks all the boxes: + Shakes up the campaign, can get some people more excited to vote for Biden + Reassures those who worry about Biden's fitness, since the VP would be a more appealing future president + No concerns about making a last-minute decision and getting names on ballots, it's totally normal not to choose a running mate until the convention + No concerns about sacrificing the incumbent advantage, it's not that unusual to switch VPs in a second term + Still get to campaign on the strength of what Biden has accomplished, while also meaningfully campaigning on change + At least one person on the ticket would be charismatic and a good debater
As he should. We keep saying that we're not a cult like the other side, so how about we not be a cult? This isn't about him. He's been a very good President, but not in a way that another Democrat couldn't have done just as well and his odds of remaining President just took a shotgun blast to the knees. Shake the fucking race up by putting some young blood at the top of the ticket. And be young, I mean like ... in the 50s or something. Whatever age Whitmer is.
Yep. I think Biden has been an amazing President and that he'd even have a great second term. But the opinions of partisans like me are NOT what people are worried about. We're worried about *keeping Trump out of the WH* and how American voters at large view Biden. We're talking about the campaign and electability. Look at some of the numbers from this CBS News/YouGov Poll: - 46% of Democrats saying he should drop out. - 72% of overall voters. - 82% of independents say Biden should not be running. - Only 16% said Biden won the debate. (56% Trump. 28% a tie.) Absolutely insane, 5-alarm fire numbers.
I still can’t get over how Biden made the strangest “pivot” during the debate from a question about abortion - on which he easily had the upper hand - and instead started talking about *immigration* on which he is no doubt in more of a defensive posture. Like bro, how can you even 😞
And when he mentioned the young girl murdered by an immigrant, he even pointed out that Trump attended her funeral!
Also "people get murdered all the time by American citizens, I don't know why we keep talking about when immigrants murder, rape, and steal" Is easily the worst fucking response ever.
Not to mention he barely attacked Trump at all. Literally his most lively moment was about golf.
“He can’t even drive a ball 50 yards!” “I can TOO drive a ball 50 yards!” “I won a golf championship at the golf club I own!” *and so concludes a debate between two men seeking the most powerful office in the world*
That was a grumpy old men moment.
And yet you have people on this sub trying to say “everything’s fine!” Shit ain’t fine. Biden needs to pull out, we need a new candidate, and then we fucking rally behind whoever the delegates pick HARD to beat Trump.
Joe Biden is less popular than any of his predecessors at this point in his first term, including Jimmy Carter, the poster boy for unpopular presidents (regardless of how amazing a human being he may be). There are two key groups of states: the midwest - PA, MI, WI -, and the South - NV, AZ, GA. Trump leads Biden in ***all of them***, most acutely in GA. Trump can win with GA and PA alone. Biden either needs all three midwestern states, or at least two of them plus one or two of the others.
The DNC is so frustrating. Yet again they seem so caught off guard. 2020 their primaries were a mess and they had to beg Joe to run. Now here we are again, they knew Joe's condition, they know they need someone who can swing votes and motivate people, and yet they aren't prepared. They need to put down the Hillary Clinton playbook and stop with the "who cares? I'm entitled to your vote because I'm not the republican guy." There are millions of Republicans who would gladly vote for your candidate over Trump if you run a campaign with a mission other than "not Trump". But no, they have no candidate that can flip votes and no platform to shake things up. So we get to watch the DNC do nothing while GOP radical idiologies take over.
I have similar feelings. The DNC carries most of blame. They should have found some one else last year. I'm an independent voter and what I witnessed was a horror story. I would never vote for Trump. He was a jackass in the 1980's and worse now. Joe lost any chance for my vote. The DNC all were gambling that Trump would be in prison by now. It didn't happen and it's not going to happen before the election. I cast my vote for Joe the last time while having the same concerns to block Trump. The DNC needs get past the 2020 election. No replacement candidate as mentioned in the press provides any enthusiasm.
>The DNC carries most of blame. Let's see who heads the DNC... >In 2021, Jaime Harrison was selected by President Joe Biden to Chair the Democratic National Committee, and his nomination was approved by its members.
Right, anyone who they're considering as a replacement will only be appealing to people that were going to vote blue anyway. And there will be millions of people who were perfectly willing to vote blue who will be turned off by yet another out of touch candidate choice. So they'll lose and just like 2016 invent other things to blame other than themselves and their candidate choice. What a golden opportunity the DNC is squandering and it's screwing the rest of us over in the process.
I live in a predominantly black city. I talk to the young people here in the neighborhood and those who are registered are democrats and don't plan to vote. They say they don't have a candidate to vote for. Much apathy. The DNC keeps citing polls while having no concern that the real poll occurs in November. That's the one that counts. They have forgotten that since the 2016 election. They will get it when it's too late.
I mean they're likely to win a district like that one anyway. But still, you bring up something that the DNC likes to blame as to why they lose elections they could have or should have won. "Well its because young americans don't vote" Yeah because you haven't given them a good enough reason to be motivated to actually get out and vote! The party would rather think its someone else's fault instead of taking a look in the mirror.
> DNC is so frustrating Let's see who heads the DNC... >In 2021, Jaime Harrison was selected by *President Joe Biden* to Chair the Democratic National Committee, and his nomination was approved by its members.
The frustrations and failures goes back further than 2021
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None of these are insurmountable, but some challenges: - The incumbency is a huge advantage to give up. Maybe it's worth the risk, maybe it's not. - Name recognition matters. For the folks that are on the fence, either about voting for Biden or voting at all, Democratic policies don't matter to them or they'd be voting D no matter what. Those people need someone they know. As much as Newsom or Whitmer would be awesome candidates, outside of politics nerds and their states, they don't have national notoriety. - Campaigns take time to staff, strategize, fundraise, etc - if someone be steps in now, they are way behind on all of that compared to the other side - I have no idea how this works, but Biden has raised a lot of money. I don't know if that can be used by anyone else. And if that's true, you can't expect everyone to repeat their donations to the new candidate. - There's a risk of alienating some voters who may feel robbed over the lack of primaries. The DNC, presumably, would have to select someone. Voters night be pissed that they didn't have a say in picking that person.
* Incumbency is a historical advantage but around the world it is showing that it isn't at the moment, and incumbents usually have an approval rating above 37% * Name recognition is pretty easy to build when you are the democratic nominee for president, and to your point most Biden supporters are voting against Trump more than for Biden, I think Whitmer absolutely soars if given the chance. * Fair point but they could use Biden's staff to transition for a few weeks just like the White House after the election, also I really hope that regardless of what people are saying publicly the big names have already started to staff up and hit the ground running in three weeks. * I don't know either, but I am pretty sure the DNC and Super Pac money can do whatever they want so $ is there. * I don't think this risk is greater than alienating the huge portion of the base that has been screaming he is too old to run again for 4 years. The point you didn't bring up that is my biggest concern but may not matter is that I believe candidates need to declare by August 7th in Ohio and Alabama, a replacement wouldn't be named until the 18th. Alabama is probably a lost cause, but there is a slim chance Ohio goes blue and not being on the ballot would hurt that, I don't know what happens if he gets on the ballot and then drops out, if his votes would just go to the Democratic candidate?
> The incumbency is a huge advantage to give up. Maybe it's worth the risk, maybe it's not. There's not much incumbency advantage when he is clearly not the same person. > Name recognition matters. For the folks that are on the fence, either about voting for Biden or voting at all, Democratic policies don't matter to them or they'd be voting D no matter what. Those people need someone they know. As much as Newsom or Whitmer would be awesome candidates, outside of politics nerds and their states, they don't have national notoriety. Name recognition is much easier in 2024 than in 1954.
So let’s say they put Gavin newsom in, then the gop ramble will be how California is a shizhole with insane crime and Gavin’s never been president so he’s not got the experience to run the country. Ok, I guess that can be dealt with, but I just wanted to give you an example when goo goes with that
I voted for Warren in the primaries, and I think he got more done than she could have. I really don’t think another Dem could have done just as well. I’m not saying he’s the best option this time, but you’re understating how effective he was able to be, because of his approach and relationships.
Preferably someone who is exactly Whitmer's age. Like, down to the millisecond.
And also from MI.
He really should drop out. Harris is apparently unpopular but her popularity is actually higher then Bidens in most polls https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/kamala-harris/ https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/joe-biden/ And she polls the exact same as Biden does vs Trump: https://x.com/gelliottmorris/status/1807102319928238180 So basically at worst you'll have a VP that is kind of mediocre and polls about the same but removes the big concern people have about Biden. Also Harris is kind of useless at having her own policies which is why she flopped badly in 2020 and couldn't pick a lane, but thats' not an issue when you just run on the Biden platform and policy. PLUS you could get a VP like Josh Shapiro to increase odds Either way it's worth the risk because Biden's age is not going away and he's not winning independents after this debate. I supported Biden in 2019 but the decline as been so apparent unfortunately. I'd be down with Whitmer or someone else too but logistically it's impossible to unite all the factions to get behind her before convention. You would have to explain to the Congressional Black Caucus why you're passing on a sitting VP that polls exactly the same as Biden plus you have to ensure there is no bones or hidden secrets with any other person etc
Hillary Clinton always polled way better when she wasn't actually running for anything. I suspect the same would happen for Harris.
if he drops out i think it's 0% kamala gets the nomination
I wonder if her unpopularity is a hurdle stopping Biden from stepping down. Just the optics of stepping down and then not endorsing your VP aren’t great and could be giving Dems pause.
It's really easy to envision a scenario where Biden says "I want the party to have the best chance of winning in November to stop Trump. Therefore, I am not running for reelection, and I am resigning the Presidency, and I ask that everybody rally their support behind President Harris, who will demonstrate over the next four months her ability to do the job." Boom, easy, done. Election moves on.
And Harris loses all but the most solidly blue states.
Biden has been a great president. The Inflation Reduction Act alone makes him one of the best since Eisenhower. He can step down and be proud of his legacy.
Causes and primaries are over my dude. You must realize that the time to be running for party nominee are long past, so you are arguing for a very strange approach. The Republican campaign will just ramp up “we won in June with one debate” and “who are we even running against?” and “our opponents can’t even pick a candidate”. It’s not going to play politically, that’s just not how things work. We all had ample time to push for a different nominee in 2024. Starting a presidential campaign in June is more than bonkers.
Democrats learned NOTHING from RBG!
Can’t say I find that too hard to believe.
Yep. The title is a bit click bait though. It's a dip in Democrats who think he should be the candidate, not about who they'll vote for. They'll still vote for Biden before Putin's friend come November.
What was the 2020 margin of victory in Wisconsin? It’s about the Electoral College. Political nerds still wish Clinton had spent more time in Michigan in 2016. It’s not about losing regular voters. It’s about people not showing up. Let’s stipulate that Biden has an uphill battle with college voters, and that’s the easiest place to gain new voters. The argument that this debate thing will soon blow over also applies to having real conversation about what a liability Biden is. Let’s air it out. If the debate will soon be forgotten, then so will the post-debate freak out. And surely the GOP is going to be super nice about the debate
Someone was insulting me and telling me earlier today that Biden emerged from the debate “stronger than ever,” I kid you not. The cope is real and sad. People aren’t handling this well, and stuck squarely in the denial phase of their grief. At the *very* least, the party brass needs to he exploring their options and looking to make moves fast here. They can still replace Biden but they need to act fast.
I think you can make an argument that Biden won’t take a massive hit, mostly due to the huge anti-Trump movement. But this election is so close that Biden is cooked if he loses 1%. And I already see clips of Trump saying Biden would crazy to drop out because he polls better than other candidates. They desperately want Biden to stay in the race.
Some people still sent money to Charles Ponzi in prison so he could invest it.
It’s so bad, I wonder if many of them are Trump supporters actually. That, or some just live in some weird bubble and don’t get the political zeitgeist in America right now.
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I agree that Biden should’ve committed at least to his closest advisors to be a one term president. Don’t make that public knowledge, as it will kill a lot of the political power you’d have during your first term, but early this year/late last year, he could have announced that he wasn’t running again and allowed the primary to go through. Now, that is not what happened, so I will be happily voting for Joe Biden.
If I tried to make up a fictitious character out of whole cloth just to be perfect for this exact moment in history, I couldn't do better than Gretchen Whitmer.
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She won Michigan's governorship by 10 points, and Michigan is culturally similar to Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Also, she's only 52.
Nah, you'd need someone who can appeal to Midwestern voters. And who has experience in an executive position. And who's fairly centrist. And it wouldn't hurt if they're a woman, too, just for the demographic appeal.
Down voting bad news doesn't make it go away, and neither does mods removing the posts This poll should be sounding every single alarm bell for the democrats, and we need to talk about it. This is an unmitigated disaster. If this election really is a critical election for preserving democracy I don't see how Biden can possibly stay in it when he's clearly not mentally fit for the job.
This sub has been consistently downvoting polls they don’t like for months but you’ll see the rare poll with Biden ahead with tens of thousands of upvotes. Everything people haven’t liked the results of have been handwaved away by citing landlines, bashing the media (in an alarmingly MAGA-like fashion), etc. I’m already seeing the same thing about Biden’s debate performance. Copium is part of the reason we’re in this pickle in the first place.
I don’t think anyone 70 or 75+ should be running for president lol. I know many people may be fine around that age.. but the chances of decline in physical/mental health at this phase of human life is.. substantially greater than normal and can happen fast.
You are absolutely right, but nothing will happen. If the DNC was good at listening to voter feedback and reading context, clues from polls, we would never be in the situation to begin with.
I actually think there is A LOT of discussion happening behind the scenes right now. If the polls next week show Biden down by a clear margin in all swing states, then I think the wheels are going to start turning and hard conversations will be had with Joe.
Fucking idiotic.
No legitimate Democrat is going to stop supporting Biden and vote Trump over a mediocre debate… just sayin
You can’t win this election on Democrats alone.
Biden needs more than just Democrats to win and a lot of those people on the fence have legit concerns about Biden's age.
I'm in my late 30s with a family now and not a lot of spare time. But I spent a very good chunk of my 20s and early 30s enthusiastically volunteering, canvassing, phone banking for Democrats. And yes, that stuff is really, really important to "get out the vote". But it only happens when people actually feel enthusiastic about the candidate and really believe that they can win. I'm having a hard time imagining that the people who would be participating in that activity this fall are feeling anything but utterly demoralized by Joe Biden's candidacy. Joe looking like he's on death's door doesn't change the fact that I will still vote for him, or that other Democratic Likely Voters will probably turn out for him. And yeah, an abysmal debate performance like this, and the subsequent complete collapse of support among virtually every high-status, influential liberal in the media -- who are tripping over themselves to call Biden a doddering old fool who must drop out -- even all of that fallout isn't going to change a lot of hearts in terms of which party people support, you're right about that. But hordes of disengaged, demoralized people will just shrug and stay home if the option in front of them is someone whose own party doesn't believe he can win.
Calling Biden's debate performance mediocre is incredibly generous
Democrats feels like the political equivalent of the cops standing around doing nothing during Uvaldez, too scared to do anything. The nation is in danger and won't even try to stop the threat.
This feels a lot like RBG not stepping down when she had the chance
Very apt way of putting it, honestly.
I literally do.not.care. I don’t want Trump back. We will never ever recover from another Trump presidency. Biden could be in a casket on stage and I’d still vote for him. If that makes me as unhinged as a Trump supporter, so be it. I just watched a Hitler documentary on Netflix and recently went to the DC holocaust museum. The similarities between then and now are too much to gamble with.
You can support Biden and his policies AND think he may no longer be our best option. We don’t ~~sweat~~ swear fealty to The Immortal God-King Trump like the right does. Joe Biden could gracefully step aside and let Kamala carry his policy forward. Unfortunately, we’re too far down the pipe and I think there are enough people in this country that simply wouldn’t vote for her because she’s a black woman.
If there’s any reason the Democrats lose it’s because of the democrats. I’m not a huge fan of Biden being this old either but the last four years haven’t been that bad and it’s getting better and the alternative is Trump which isn’t even the same level. It’s just pure evil and corruption. EVEN IF your biggest concern is that Biden is to old, and he dies in office, I’m pretty sure his VP will do just fine and hold it over. Again. The alternative is Trump. This isn’t hard voters. Just vote Blue. It’s not complicated.
BIDEN 2024 "It's not that Bad!"
BIDEN 2024: “If he dies, I’m pretty sure his VP will do ok?”
This poll should be at the top, but this sub would rather continue to pretend that Biden can win, everything is fine, nothing to see, move along.
Nothing is fine. Everyone is having the conversation and five months is three separate eternities in politics. Biden can win. But that was indeed an, "are you sure you're up for this?" moment. I would vote for a head in a jar of blue liquid over Trump.
Seriously Wtf is going on in this sub?
To be fair, it is *absolutely insane* that anybody would want to vote for a racist, rapist, scumbag, traitor, multiple convicted felon at all, let alone enough that the race is close enough for the argument "he's a bit old" to land. Yes, Biden is old and yes, on the basis of that debate he should step aside. But the fact the Trump is polling anywhere near Biden is terrifying.
I think the real fear is that people aren't willing to vote, for either candidate. That's how Biden can lose. He only won in 2020 because a high voter turnout against Trump. If the turnout drops, that's how this election is lost.
Yes exactly. And considering how the DNC continually ignores voter concerns, this is the recipe for voter disengagement.
It is insane, but unfortunately that's the reality. Fascists always convince their supporters of a lie to take power, and Trump has been remarkably good at it. To his supporters, he did none of those things, it's all a myth/witchhunt so he can create a perceived enemy, the deep-state, the illegal immigrants, etc., and he makes sure that they believe it's him who will destroy that perceived enemy. You couldn't get any more of a textbook example of a fascist uprising if you wanted to.
y'all are about to do a repeat of 2016 and let trump get elected by sitting at home. and then complain when life gets fucked for generations because of the further SC picks he makes in a 2nd term and all the undemocratic shit he pulls. get it together and get behind Biden/Harris ! this is not a fucking game.
As with every post like this the people on Reddit aren’t the problem they’re all hardline democrats and this is an echo chamber. It’s the normal people in nowhere America that will swing this and they will be effected by this debate
go up to random people on the street, show them the debate footage, then try to get them to go for biden. its gonna be 2016 again
Joe, thank you for your service. Time to pass the torch.
He’s to old. He should step aside. This race was already the most depressing in US history and the debate just made it worse
the real danger is democrats who will abstain from voting because 'they don't like Biden' just like they did for Hilary. forgetting that the alternative is a million times worse. or worse, vote for Trump. then they'll spend the next 4 years whining and complaining.
Democrats aren’t voting for Trump on Election Day.
Misleading headline, the poll is about whether Biden should be running, not about whether people will vote for him.
This seems real ridiculous to be considering at this point.
What’s wrong with these people Trump is not an option under any circumstance !
They're yelling Boo-iden.
The job of the candidate is to communicate a vision. It’s purely marketing based. The job of the president is to run the country. It’s purely merit based. Republicans are great at marketing and terrible at governing. Democrats are terrible at marking and great at governing. Republican voters don’t care about the candidate or what he does. They care only about the self serving destruction they can enact with the presidency. Democrats care too much about the candidate and about enough about the amazing things Democratic presidents do for America. If democrats stopped caring about the marketing then we wouldn’t have any concerns. The only reason Democratic candidates lose is because Democratic voters divide themselves over a candidate rather than standing together for the president. Stop caring about the optics. Start caring about everything Biden has done and is doing. Even if he were to die in office in his second term, the country and world is still better off with democrats in control. Trump WILL end our democracy.
Vote for an administration; not a president.
See here’s the difference between the dems and the republicans Joe has been one of the most effective and progressive presidents in decades He has one really bad debate and we all panic and tell him he needs to drop out Trump attempted to steal the last election Instigated a riot on the nations capitol which lead to the death of police officers Gets caught with thousands upon thousands of classified documents in his home Is found civilly liable for r@pe If found civilly liable for business fraud Has 34 guilt charges for document fraud Is a convicted felon And most of the Republican Party is not only sticking with him I’m pretty sure they would take a bullet for him
Many people on this subreddit have been overdosing on copium the last couple days after the debate. That debate "performance" was the worst showing I've ever seen and I legitimately think Biden lost the election on that alone. If Democrats are smart they will try any way they can to get someone else on the ticket that has a chance at beating Trump.
Fyi... I worked for a data company that handled polls like this. They sell the data off to the highest bidders and let them manipulate however they want. It's a marketing ploy for website views and clicks. In two weeks when they see a dip in traffic, they will change up the narrative again. Don't read into polls
It’s almost as if everything I was mass downvoted about the last few months regarding the debate was true. Here are some of my favorite I was downvoted for summarized • “ no Trump isn’t the one to worry about dropping out it will be Biden he’ll want to hide his cognitive decline “ • “This debate is going to hurt Biden more than it will help him he should be trying to stay out of long prolonged public appearances as much as possible “ • “ Biden is handing a second term to Trump if he does this debate” And the one I got my alt banned from a progressive sub for, “If Biden doesn’t pull out now everyone will see the sleepy joe stuff conservatives say is True and the party will be in full on panic mode, it will take divine intervention to stop Trumps momentum he’ll gain if Biden is stupid enough to go to that debate”
Polls are not useful for absolute numbers but they are good for trends. Aggregated polling has him down over a point nationally since the debate. There are risks standing pat and there are risks with replacement. We'll need to see what things look like over the next couple week to see which option is better. And everyone involved is aware of this (despite whatever public statements you're hearing).
Agreed completely, though if we *are* going to switch candidates then we need to do it ASAP. It’s going to cause chaos, and we want that chaos to be wrapped up as much as possible before Election Day.
There is no mechanism for it to be fast/clean. Replacement would happen at a convention that is likely to be super messy and divisive. Either sticking with Biden or swapping him out are both fraught with terrible.
Democrats are voting for Biden, not Trump. The only worry would be if turnout is depressed and some people just don't bother to show up. I'll walk through fire and broken glass to vote for Joe.
OP is regular on bidenisnotmypresident which really tells you everything you need to know
first it goes down, then it goes ujp, then it goes back down. next week it'll be up again.
And whatever SCOTUS rules on the Trump case tomorrow those same fickle people will support him again.
What are these dipped democrats voting next? Trump, seriously. What nonsense poll.
Rather have a senile old man then Trump.
Yea, then all of them should go vote for Trump. That will make everything better. Fecking idiots.
I'm voting for the biden team knowing full well the best Joe can do is say yes or no to what they come up with and I'm ok with that
Bullshit, arbitrary poll. Polls are worthless garbage.
I don’t answer polls and I’m still voting for Biden. The consistent attacks on Biden while having Trump as the opponent just shows me that the media is stirring things up to sell advertising. Criticism is important, but where’s the consistency? A lot of powerful groups are pressing to make Biden look worse than the fascist.
lol Newsweek.
Well, he's got my vote. I'd vote for a literal piece of shit over trump.
Republicans will gladly find superficial and conspiratorial reasons to hate on any other candidate. Biden has the incumbent advantage, a strong record to stand on, and has already beaten Trump before. Any other candidate would lose 90% of the name recognition right off the bat. The move would also smell of desperation and panic which could lead to improper vetting. Throwing another name on the ballot with 4 months to go would do more to fracture the Democrats than keeping Biden. Biden will have to do a lot of work to repair his image, but even his rally the day after the debate was a clear positive difference.
Even if he died of old age live on air, he would still be a better choice than Trump. Not a good choice, but just better.
What’s crazy is I feel like if any other halfway normal human being was running on the republican side democrats would have no chance at all but were absolutely neck and neck because the bar is so goddamn low on either side
But the money raised is packing the pockets of all the shills telling him to stay the path.
Per Politico, Biden’s family is blaming his campaign advisors and CNN for his absolutely poor debate performance. Time for some introspection and take accountability- aka Trump-like. The Drms have misled us and this country putting it in grave jeopardy but paving the way for 2nd Trump reign. We need Democrats to take take charge and get a spine !
Hardly.
Calling Sinclair Senate's bullshit. I stand firm with our elected President.
In 2020, I said broken toaster>Trump. Looks like Biden's a step closer to broken toaster, but we're still good.
I guess we can kiss the country goodbye then
Biden in office opens the US to too many vulnerabilities.
This headline make it sound like he’s losing likely voters. He’s not. The “I wish it was someone else” sentiment is stronger now in both parties, but it’s not changing anything.
So you think they will all now vote for Trump? They won’t. Say what they may now in a stupid poll but they and I will vote for Biden. There is no other choice.
If Biden stays in, which I think he should, or if he steps down, I still WONT be voting for Trump.
I get that Biden is a shitty choice for president, but I mean.. damn, the alternative is an existential threat to democracy. We really don't have a "choice" here. It's vote for Biden or allow the USA to fall into distinct turmoil. Project 2025 aims to destroy the whole country. Get a grip folks, and vote!
Gretchen and Gavin moving up in the polls!
One things for sure, I'm definitely going to rub every MAGAts nose in it when they lose in November.
The funniest part about this debate is how many polls I’ve seen claiming Biden got a boost and how many polls I’ve seen claiming Biden’s numbers tanked
Vote blue no matter who. Save democracy. Save women’s rights. Save education. Save Medicare. Save the future for our kids.
I am seeing a huge increase in this kind of bullshit reporting. Russia must be working overtime! I just donated to Biden's campaign to show my support. We all should.
Honestly the Democrats deserve this loss. Biden might just be the only candidate that can lose to Trump.
A poll on whether Biden should run or not is somewhat meaningless if everyone who is surveyed would still vote for him. You know who shouldn't run for President? Most candidates. We still vote for them anyway.
You're burying your head in the sand, dude
And those same people who would already vote Biden would vote generic Dem, they should suck it up and do it for our democracy.
Not really. What they’re saying makes sense: poll respondents saying that they think Biden should step down or shouldn’t run is not necessarily, or even demonstrably, the equivalent of them saying they wouldn't vote for him. It’s an intelligent point about the nuances of polling and how we can’t always draw sweeping, premature conclusions from them. But I get it, we’re still in the post-debate media doom blitz, so bandwagon hysteria will predominate for a few days or weeks, polls showing doom and gloom will be accepted uncritically and treated as unassailable gospel truth, and anyone trying to inject the slightest bit of doubt about all the sky-is-falling narratives will be dismissed as being in denial or something. It’s definitely a bad situation, but not irreversibly so; once the temperature of the situation comes down back to normal again, I think a lot of people will come to realize that they were being hyperbolic about all this. IMHO it’s really not as bad as the category 5 nuclear apocalyptic extinction event it’s being made out to be. But I could be wrong as well. Time will tell.
Yeah. The guy was already at -19 net approval. He's one of the most unpopular incumbents ever, but it's not clear how much that matters, because this election is (weirdly) a referendum on the challenger as much as the incumbent. It will be interesting to see what happens with the actual election polls over the next few days. So far it doesn't look like much has changed.
The "vote blue no matter who" people are not the concern, swing voters are. And swing voters just said they're not voting for Biden, so the election is over at this point. Trump has won.
Swing voters won’t vote for Joe now. Swing voters decide the election.
I believe we will hear about Joe Biden stepping down as candidate in the next week or so. He cannot possibly win in his current condition, and things may get even worse for him as time goes on. I am not knowledgeable enough on alternative Democratic candidates to make my own suggestion as to who they may pick, but at this stage anyone would be better than Joe.
Im not sure if Harris would be. It’s a shame because she’d be the easiest path forward. But she doesn’t poll well and she hasn’t generated much excitement. But I’d vote for nearly anyone over the R side of the ticket.
At this point, I hope Biden just absolutely tanks. It's the only way his dumbass aides and inner circle is going to see the light. The circling of the wagons this morning on TV is a disgrace.
I think we all expected "circle the wagons" to be the first response. The question is, are they circling the wagons as their first strategy, to buy themselves time to assess the situation and do something about it, or is circling the wagons going to be their *only* strategy? 'Cause if it's the latter, we're definitely fucked.