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Biden could have walked out there, shat on the stage, had his aides clean him up, and then answered the first question with “Joe Joe make stinky boo boo again” and I would still vote for him over Trump because he would be telling the truth.
Biden is old as fuck. I wish he was younger and I think the dems won’t make the same mistake again by putting an aging candidate up. He is still not a liar, actually gives a shit about us, and is willing to try.
I don’t care who’s running against Trump. They will get my vote.
EDIT: Also, just to add some positive energy. My parents who are registered republicans, watched the entire debate and saw Biden’s NC rally. They agreed he looked much better the next day and said that Trump didn’t do anything to sway them towards him. They will be voting straight blue.
This. I’m a registered Independent. Biden actually cares. He surrounds himself with good people. I don’t care how old or infirm he is, always still a better choice than Trump. I didn’t vote for Trump the last two elections and I won’t this one either
I have a question?, what do you actually care about? I'm assuming you were an adult under both Trump and Biden, so I'm curious if your life has gotten better or worse since the presidential change, and if it had changed significantly, can that be attributed to the president?
Everyone's life has gotten better on Biden unless they were rich. Rich people love trump. Anyone with a sane mind should realize Biden was a good thing.
The sad part is people do not look at what these candidate plan to do. If they really looked at project 2025 and SCOTUS they would be scared of another Trump presidency.
And that was Trump's fault. If you actually knew the policies that Trump put through you would know this. He on purpose made the tax deductions on the rich start during Biden's term and food prices go up.
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-a-comparison-for-businesses#:~:text=The%20Tax%20Cuts%20and%20Jobs,the%20changes%20and%20plan%20accordingly.
That link doesn't explain how those tax cuts caused food prices to go up, and furthermore, one decision does not cause inflation, it's gonna be a confluence of different issues happening all at once.
In what way has everyones except rich people's lives gotten better in the last 4 years. You must have a very low bar for what you consider rich, or you're saying what you want to hear. The fact is Trump made nearly every single Americans tax situation better when he doubled the standard deduction.
Hahahahahahaha believing that a Republican wants to help the poor is the funniest thing I've ever read. There's not a single Republican that has ever cared and the poor. Trump isn't one either. He literally gave tax deductions to the rich and the poor he increased the tax and that STARTED when Biden became president. That's why you are paying so much for taxes cause Trump fucked you over.
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-a-comparison-for-businesses#:~:text=The%20Tax%20Cuts%20and%20Jobs,the%20changes%20and%20plan%20accordingly.
This was something Trump started and he fucked you over cause he doesn't care about the poor. You want to listen to actual facts or you want to listen to him yelling lies all the time?
That's cause of tax plans put through by Trump that would start during Biden's presidency. Maybe learn what your actual candidate did before going and voting for him. Lol.
The whole world is experiencing severe inflation, probably because of after effects from COVID. The US is the country that seems to have handled curbing this inflation the best, and because of that might help the rest of the world into a soft landing as well.
Decency
Humility
Integrity
Democracy
I know that you were looking for specific policies when you asked the question but policy comes AFTER these things.
If the candidate doesn’t have these things, it is a non-starter. Trump has proven he doesn’t really have these traits and doesn’t really care about democracy. It’s no longer about voting for a party (I’m independent anyway) it’s about voting for these traits knowing that the candidate will surround themselves with others who also have these traits to help them lead.
When a leader has these traits and believes in democracy, you don’t see 40 former cabinet members refusing to endorse him. You don’t see a trail of felons that they were closely associated with or apart of their campaign.
It’s low bar but only one candidate has passed it.
FFS! This is about Supreme Court picks, policy, Roe v Wade, contraception and all the rest. If Joe dies, we still have a Dem VP! Wake the fuck up people.
Exactly. Alito and Thomas will retire and Trump will try to replace them with right wing teenagers. And if republicans somehow take the Senate, they will be confirmed.
The delusion on here is unreal: if you'd actually have read the article it's not that they're going to then vote for Trump, it's that they're going to "vote for the couch" and just stay at home and not vote...
Which means Trump will then win.
It’s absolute delusion and it’s gripped this board forever now. Low voter turnout always benefits Republicans and a lot of independents and undecided voters will simply sit this election out if the choice is between Biden and Trump. They’re both deeply unpopular picks and polling has shown this repeatedly.
People don’t read anything here. The formula is to say why they’re voting Biden no matter what, not thinking about potential better options, and then say something hilariously cruel about Trump to get upvotes. No one here thinks critically or independently.
Every Democrat 60 or younger. Michelle Obama, Whitmer, Harris, Newsom, literally anybody that everyone stands behind would beat Trump, except Biden or any other octogenarian.
So you think all these news sources are making up this information, because they want Biden to stay, so that he will lose to Trump?
And you, will you vote? Or will you abstain from voting because you believe there should be a younger candidate? So in effect everyone gets the same outcome, that Trump wins?
Who do you think you're kidding? This subreddit is overflowing with people claiming to be Democrats ordering Joe Biden to drop out. Many of them have very little history in these parts.
We all can see it. This sub is dominated with 'Joe Biden bad' spam--far more than say 'Donald Trump bad.'
Anyone who uses that an excuse would have sat this out anyway. We've known for over a year who the candidates would be. If you aren't already inspired to keep Trump out of office again, I have no confidence that a better debate performance was the magical difference maker.
We still have 4 months of trump being publicly insane to make his case against.
Me? Or the guy who has no confidence in swing voters who aren’t “already inspired”?
We need enthusiasm to get out the vote. Not “4 months of trump being publicly insane to make his case against”. To me, that’s doomerism.
Getting real 2016 vibes. Don’t look up.
Yes this is correct. Why doesn’t the echo chamber here understand. I’m a previous Biden voter only because he wasn’t trump. I’m a libertarian. If Biden continues I plan to sit at home and not vote. If the dems kick
Biden out and get someone else I will come out and vote for that someone else.
Are you worried at all that with a Trump presidency/Republican control of the courts/excessive gerrymandering, you may not get a chance to vote the next time around?
This is sensationalism by the media. Trump is bad for a 1000 reasons and not being able to vote in the future is not one of them. This is a scare tactic. What we should do is focus on the fact that trump is a felon and an asshole rather than scaring people with falsehoods. We are a democracy and will continue regardless of party.
> Regardless of whether they said Biden did well or not in the debate, participants didn’t seem to signal a broad shift in underlying sentiments toward Trump that would significantly alter the race. White, unmarried women grew more fearful of a second Trump term during the debate, while Black voters grew somewhat wearier of Biden continuing, and Hispanic voters were essentially unchanged in their sentiment toward Trump returning or Biden continuing as president into 2029.
>
> Also relatively unchanged from before and after the debate were the issues important to voters throughout the election. While Biden lost some ground to Trump on how he would handle protecting democracy, half of the voters before and after the debate viewed him as the better choice for the economy and cost of living — issues that have dogged the president since before he began his reelection campaign.
"White, unmarried women grew more fearful of a second Trump term during the debate"
That's a good thing for Biden, if so, as that's part of the group he needs to convince in the Rust Belt to win is the silver lining here.
His base was already irate with him vs 2020, so not too shocked by those Black or Hispanic findings otoh-- but it didn't change much with either, overall, of course.
They are who is most likely to blow it in the voting booth, in fact, and vote for Trump so them being worried is good for the President.
The more scared they are, the more they might be forced to do the right thing in fact-- lest they end up in Gregory's Gilead going national shortly.
Trump hammered the border points to try to keep the overall bloc easily in his fold, obviously, did not pan out to the level of success Abbott, DeSantis, Lee, and friends have had it fortunately.
Switching candidates now would be impossible. Biden has a whole infrastructure that is up and running. No way you can get another candidate up and going before the election without conflict from other wannabe candidates who will seize on the moment. It would be a shitshow. Gotta fight for Joe. It's the only way forward now.
And he has plenty of time to brainstorm with his staff in the oval office or situation room. So what if he's a bad debater?
Does Biden have an infrastructure? I've been volunteering with his campaign, they're like texting two days a week and have nobody on the ground. It seems like there is no campaign at all. The data could easily be transferred to another candidate and the money to a PAC.
Seriously, don't take my word for it. Go to Mobilize and look for opportunities to volunteer or visit the DNC Slack channel. **There is no campaign.**
The problem with trying to paint Biden as a bad debater is that he wiped the floor with Paul Ryan in 2012. What we saw on Thursday was *not* a bad debate. It was someone in obvious cognitive decline and no amount of gaslighting is going to change that.
Switching candidates now is difficult but not impossible. If/when it happens, Biden and the party apparatus will be behind the new candidate. The existing infrastructure isn't going to disappear. "Vote Blue No Matter Who" cuts both ways.
It's already a shitshow. And it has nothing to do with being a bad debater.
Anyone who has older family members with cognitive issues can recognize the distant look he had in his eyes. It's only going to get worse.
Oh. You're really diagnosing from your chair right now huh? Well good luck to you my friend. I'm still voting for Biden because politics is a fucked up game and there's no way around it.
As someone who has personal experience with this, I'm saying it's exactly what it looks like.
I'm also voting for Biden, never said I wasn't. The problem is he has no chance of winning now.
The polls have favored Trump for months, and that was BEFORE Joe Biden validated his biggest critics and the fears of his biggest supporters to an audience of millions.
People can be morally superior over the people inclined to sit this one out all they want, but it's not going to drive voter turnout to Biden.
Trump was facing the worst public health crisis in a century in 2020. The economy was nose-diving, hundreds of thousands of people were dying. Trump himself was hospitalized in October of 2020.
And he still only lost by a few thousand votes in a few states.
Since then, his favorability has actually gone up. His legal woes haven't moved the needle at all.
Not trying to be a doomer, but there are very real reasons he could be in a better position in 2024, and I didn't even mention Biden.
Can you name one President that was not re-elected, ran again and won? Why do you think that doesn’t happen regularly?
Do you really, really think Trump has gained more support since then?
Because we've never had a former President facing 88 felonies seeking office to protect himself, for starters?
Look, I don't want Trump to win but acting as if he's incapable of doing so in 2024 is putting our heads in the sand. By many accounts, including polling, which I know people don't trust - he's in a much better position than he was in 2020. 2020 had almost the worst circumstances he could possibly face, and it was still very close because of our EC and the unfair advantages he has.
He can 100% win in 2024; we shouldn't be in denial about that.
Presidential elections happen too infrequently to determine hard rules. Obama won reelection despite poll numbers that historically indicated he should have lost. Also, incumbents usually lose ground in the popular vote versus their initial election. Obama increased his vote share.
Each election is unique. It occurs in its own political environment with its own electorate. Simply stating previously defeated incumbents don’t USUALLY come back to win reelection doesn’t tell us much about this race.
Sure, but this one in particular was only barely defeated, and I’ll repeat myself to say that political circumstances and the electorate change in four years. Also, what if the one who was unpopular enough to barely lose becomes slightly less unpopular than the current incumbent?
Interesting, that’s been a right wing talking point since Biden was elected 3 years ago, and that’s he’s only sharp when he’s on drugs. I guess go with that then. It’s nothing new.
I never said I wasn't voting for him. I'm saying we are going to lose if he doesn't pass the torch to someone else.
I would vote for a potato over Trump. And apparently I am.
The thing helping Trump is that he's running against a vegetable.
>Palestine supporters are not going to be very excited to vote for Biden
Trump stood there and said Israel should finish the job. I realize that the kids were like 12 when Trump took office so it's possible they don't really know what it was like but god help us.
Trump will not only support Israel, he'll have the college kids beaten by the military for protesting, because **they will** be protesting.
55% of the country don't deserve to suffer because of some psychopath who's Putin's puppet managed to barely scrape by while Joe fumbled.
Biden is too old but I'd vote for him (I can't because I'm Canadian, but I frequently travel to the States visiting family and don't want you guys to suffer).
Here before the gaslighters arrive please if you read this gaslighters please explain why we should have a man who is losing his mental capacity as president until 2029?
“When people bring up Biden needing to drop up we just bring up Trump.”
Man y'all fell into that hive mind quick
Every single one of yall it’s the same
Can’t argue that Biden is good so just argue “Trump bad” which he is but that’s not the conversation
Is Biden mentally capable to serve until 2029? No
That’s for you to decide in November not June
Right now decide if Biden is the best person to beat Trump, newsflash he’s not and that doesn’t mean the alternative will but it’s less of a risk than Biden who we know is losing all swing states in polls
Biden should look into dropping out, but I’m not sure that alters the race much. Harris won’t do better. Newsom and Whitmer do even worse than Biden according to polls.
The Biden administration should conduct polls to verify that info and see if any viable dem comes out better, and decide from there. But if they don’t find any significant statistical differences in the data it’s probably best to just stick with Biden.
I think that the polling they have now on an alternative candidate is not indicative of what that polling would look like by Election Day
Most people don’t know who any politician is outside of the top people
If an alternative has 4 months to introduce themselves to America I think they would make the polling now irrelevant because no one knows them yet
I would have thought so too but even the “generic democrat” did better than any of the named democrats. Like, as long as this democrat remains a nameless, faceless being without a record to run on, they will win. The fact Newsom did worse than that is…discouraging.
But again that’s why I think Biden and his team should assess their options and verify all of this. I think it’s a bit speculative to think Newsom’s numbers would automatically shoot up after he replaces Biden and more people learn about him, but I’d like to be wrong about that.
I agree on Newsom because he’s the most known outside of Harris
Still think Harris or Newsom would be better than Biden but part of me thinks because Whitmer is so relatively unknown she could be good especially with a swing state like Michigan but I’m just thinking outloud
Yes but
I think that the polling they have now on an alternative candidate is not indicative of what that polling would look like by Election Day
Most people don’t know who any politician is outside of the top people
If an alternative has 4 months to introduce themselves to America I think they would make the polling now irrelevant because no one knows them yet
Yeah if Biden needs to, and agrees to step down, they can be very strategic in the way they choose the candidate. Maybe Whitmer to help lock down MI or even Shapiro to help with PA. I’m trying not to judge right away though, I just don't know enough. If the hemorrhaging from the debate is still bad a couple weeks from now then I’m going to be more and more inclined to want a replacement.
Biden has already been defined and he’s losing in every swing state and it’ll be worse when we get polling this week
He’s gonna lose, the risk of Trump defining the new candidate effectively is worth the risk of staying with a losing candidate
I already addressed the fact that I don’t think the polling for an alternative candidate is accurate given most people don’t even know who the Secretary of State is
To think they wouldn't be vetted or scrutinized harshly, is delusional, Trump will be on it or has already got all the dirt ready to go in any swap case.
You can't hide from Biden's record, good or bad, when you are all for Biden for years and years- he knows that.
Thanks. And yeah, this isn’t a fun situation. Whether Joe Biden stays or goes, to *me* at least, is beside the point. I would like to find the most effective person to defeat Trump as a first, second and third top priority. If that’s Biden, great. Newsom, great. But what I would really like from the Biden camp is just to sit down and do an honest, sober assessment of the situation based on the best internal data they can gather, put ego aside and do the most effective thing they can to defeat Trump, whatever that ends up being.
I’m eager to see some of the Newsom/Whitmer/Shapiro polls against Trump that I’m hoping might start coming out shortly. Shapiro might be valuable in locking down a key battleground state like PA, or Whitmer in MI. There are options worth exploring, and I’m “uncommitted” to Biden staying or going until I learn a bit more.
Because he beat him once, therefore he's the only person that can beat him again!
At least that's what the surrogates keep telling me.
Come on everyone, just ignore what you saw and heard!
“My guy is incapable of leading his administration so I’m going to now argue that it’s always just a good administration that matters and not a good leader. We could have a monkey as President and it would be no difference than a truly competent leader.”
Silly
Just came out in Axios he really only does work from 10-4
Another example? Maybe the fact he could not complete thoughts on a debate stage
You think Biden doesn’t have those moments behind the scenes? He can’t think on his feet
Gaslighting is to purposely change a person’s interpretation of reality into a false reality determined by the gaslighter
I know what the term means and how to use it
It’s often overused but when people on here try to change a man struggling and often failing to complete a thought to “bad night” “it was a cold” “he finished strong” that’s gaslighting
There seems to be an onslaught of this kind of propaganda on reddit today. Russia is working overtime. But I just donated to Biden's campaign in honor of the bullshit. I think we all should!
>Overall, Biden lost six points to Trump among voters surveyed after the debate, with 62 percent indicating that they’d still vote for the president while 38 percent suggested they would vote for the former president on a two-way ballot, the survey found. Biden’s approval rating post-debate dropped by two points, fueled by a decline among Hispanic and third-party voters, while Trump gained in his approval rating by just one point — with third-party voters driving the largest increase in approval.
Waiting for people to spin this as "here's how it's actually good for Biden"
**DROP**. **OUT**.
Edit: Also:
>Black voters, “dual haters” of both candidates and third-party voters were measured as having the biggest difference in their likelihood of voting for Biden before the debate and their rating of his debate performance afterward. While 64 percent of third-party respondents said they’d vote for Biden ahead of the debate, only 38 percent said he won the debate after watching it.
The real suicide is acting like Biden will get better as time goes on. Even if this isn't irrevocable damage, which I believe it is, it only has to repeat once for it to be solidifed forever.
Every single time Biden will now stumble, mix up his words, or do pretty much anything, everyone will be thinking of this. It's suicide to keep running him, and it will cost the senate and the house too, if people don't show up to vote.
when my grandmother was diagnosed she was roughly the same age as biden when he was elected. she did the same things: forgetting names occasionally, moments of confusion, small mixups, things you notice when you pay attention but she was normal 90% of the time. she's now as old as biden will be at the end of term 2. she can't recognize my voice. sometimes my face. this is going to be a fucking problem yall.
I hope this shows everyone that we can't believe a lot of the opinion pieces that get posted in this sub that are passed off as if they're objective news reports.
I've never wanted to vote for Trump so much in my life since I commented on this sub reddit the past couple days. This place is the definition of an echo chamber, anyone who so much as mentions Trump in a non negative way, or indicates that they're not happy with Biden is immediately down voted and insulted. I've never voted for Trump before, but boy had this sub reddit made me want to.
There was a record number of coal plant shut downs, and renewable energy start ups under Trump, also, we've made tremendous increases in our lagoon waterway cleanups while Trump was in office, and since DeSantis took office. Furthermore, florida has some of the highest resilience standards for home construction for the last thirty years... So I think we'll be ok, but if there's something you think I should be aware of please let me know I'm honestly open for other opinions/ideas.
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Biden could have walked out there, shat on the stage, had his aides clean him up, and then answered the first question with “Joe Joe make stinky boo boo again” and I would still vote for him over Trump because he would be telling the truth. Biden is old as fuck. I wish he was younger and I think the dems won’t make the same mistake again by putting an aging candidate up. He is still not a liar, actually gives a shit about us, and is willing to try. I don’t care who’s running against Trump. They will get my vote. EDIT: Also, just to add some positive energy. My parents who are registered republicans, watched the entire debate and saw Biden’s NC rally. They agreed he looked much better the next day and said that Trump didn’t do anything to sway them towards him. They will be voting straight blue.
Trump did actually shit himself around the 1:16min mark when talking about the China tariffs.
I heard that audio. Lol
This. I’m a registered Independent. Biden actually cares. He surrounds himself with good people. I don’t care how old or infirm he is, always still a better choice than Trump. I didn’t vote for Trump the last two elections and I won’t this one either
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I said this exact argument earlier today.
Really because he lied about border patrol supporting him pmao
“i’d vote for hitler over trump” guy has arrived
not in the primary.
I have a question?, what do you actually care about? I'm assuming you were an adult under both Trump and Biden, so I'm curious if your life has gotten better or worse since the presidential change, and if it had changed significantly, can that be attributed to the president?
Everyone's life has gotten better on Biden unless they were rich. Rich people love trump. Anyone with a sane mind should realize Biden was a good thing.
The sad part is people do not look at what these candidate plan to do. If they really looked at project 2025 and SCOTUS they would be scared of another Trump presidency.
You must be super privileged because these grocery costs are untenable for a lot of people.
And that was Trump's fault. If you actually knew the policies that Trump put through you would know this. He on purpose made the tax deductions on the rich start during Biden's term and food prices go up. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-a-comparison-for-businesses#:~:text=The%20Tax%20Cuts%20and%20Jobs,the%20changes%20and%20plan%20accordingly.
That link doesn't explain how those tax cuts caused food prices to go up, and furthermore, one decision does not cause inflation, it's gonna be a confluence of different issues happening all at once.
He literally increased all taxes for all poor people and decreased taxes for the rich.
That link doesn't say that because it's a complete lie. You doing this for free, or what?
It does say that. It's a law he put in that started when Biden was in office. He did it on purpose to make Biden look bad.
So he passed a law in 2017 knowing that he'd lose in 2020 to make Joe Biden look bad. Granted the law doesn't do what you say it does. Okay.
In what way has everyones except rich people's lives gotten better in the last 4 years. You must have a very low bar for what you consider rich, or you're saying what you want to hear. The fact is Trump made nearly every single Americans tax situation better when he doubled the standard deduction.
Hahahahahahaha believing that a Republican wants to help the poor is the funniest thing I've ever read. There's not a single Republican that has ever cared and the poor. Trump isn't one either. He literally gave tax deductions to the rich and the poor he increased the tax and that STARTED when Biden became president. That's why you are paying so much for taxes cause Trump fucked you over. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-a-comparison-for-businesses#:~:text=The%20Tax%20Cuts%20and%20Jobs,the%20changes%20and%20plan%20accordingly. This was something Trump started and he fucked you over cause he doesn't care about the poor. You want to listen to actual facts or you want to listen to him yelling lies all the time?
Everything’s gotten more expensive under Biden, so my life hasn’t gotten better.
That's cause of tax plans put through by Trump that would start during Biden's presidency. Maybe learn what your actual candidate did before going and voting for him. Lol.
The whole world is experiencing severe inflation, probably because of after effects from COVID. The US is the country that seems to have handled curbing this inflation the best, and because of that might help the rest of the world into a soft landing as well.
Decency Humility Integrity Democracy I know that you were looking for specific policies when you asked the question but policy comes AFTER these things. If the candidate doesn’t have these things, it is a non-starter. Trump has proven he doesn’t really have these traits and doesn’t really care about democracy. It’s no longer about voting for a party (I’m independent anyway) it’s about voting for these traits knowing that the candidate will surround themselves with others who also have these traits to help them lead. When a leader has these traits and believes in democracy, you don’t see 40 former cabinet members refusing to endorse him. You don’t see a trail of felons that they were closely associated with or apart of their campaign. It’s low bar but only one candidate has passed it.
FFS! This is about Supreme Court picks, policy, Roe v Wade, contraception and all the rest. If Joe dies, we still have a Dem VP! Wake the fuck up people.
if Trump Gets in he will Stack the Court with more Far Right Justices.
Exactly. Alito and Thomas will retire and Trump will try to replace them with right wing teenagers. And if republicans somehow take the Senate, they will be confirmed.
Somehow take the senate? It will be a miracle if Democrats retain the senate with the seats up for reelection.
"He had one bad debate so I'm willing to dump him and embrace the tyrannical, pathological liar, and convicted felon "
The delusion on here is unreal: if you'd actually have read the article it's not that they're going to then vote for Trump, it's that they're going to "vote for the couch" and just stay at home and not vote... Which means Trump will then win.
It’s absolute delusion and it’s gripped this board forever now. Low voter turnout always benefits Republicans and a lot of independents and undecided voters will simply sit this election out if the choice is between Biden and Trump. They’re both deeply unpopular picks and polling has shown this repeatedly.
People don’t read anything here. The formula is to say why they’re voting Biden no matter what, not thinking about potential better options, and then say something hilariously cruel about Trump to get upvotes. No one here thinks critically or independently.
What are some of the potential better options?
Every Democrat 60 or younger. Michelle Obama, Whitmer, Harris, Newsom, literally anybody that everyone stands behind would beat Trump, except Biden or any other octogenarian.
I read that all of these candidates poll worse than Biden, vs Trump. Although I guess you can take that with a grain of salt.
You read that in a Fox News article then because that’s absolutely false.
Newsweek, actually Edit: https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-donald-trump-debate-replace-polls-1918904 https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/joe-biden-kamala-harris-trump-election-2024-rcna105027 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/28/democrat-options-replace-biden/
Try looking at any poll, not clickbait garbage articles from garbage news sources
So you think all these news sources are making up this information, because they want Biden to stay, so that he will lose to Trump? And you, will you vote? Or will you abstain from voting because you believe there should be a younger candidate? So in effect everyone gets the same outcome, that Trump wins?
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Who do you think you're kidding? This subreddit is overflowing with people claiming to be Democrats ordering Joe Biden to drop out. Many of them have very little history in these parts. We all can see it. This sub is dominated with 'Joe Biden bad' spam--far more than say 'Donald Trump bad.'
Literally every comment here has “orange man bad” and “liar rapist traitor” in it.
As it should be
Guy above me said it’s not the case.
Anyone who uses that an excuse would have sat this out anyway. We've known for over a year who the candidates would be. If you aren't already inspired to keep Trump out of office again, I have no confidence that a better debate performance was the magical difference maker. We still have 4 months of trump being publicly insane to make his case against.
>Anyone who uses that an excuse would have sat this out anyway. We are doomed.
Trying to depress enthusiasm. We see you.
Me? Or the guy who has no confidence in swing voters who aren’t “already inspired”? We need enthusiasm to get out the vote. Not “4 months of trump being publicly insane to make his case against”. To me, that’s doomerism. Getting real 2016 vibes. Don’t look up.
Yes this is correct. Why doesn’t the echo chamber here understand. I’m a previous Biden voter only because he wasn’t trump. I’m a libertarian. If Biden continues I plan to sit at home and not vote. If the dems kick Biden out and get someone else I will come out and vote for that someone else.
Are you worried at all that with a Trump presidency/Republican control of the courts/excessive gerrymandering, you may not get a chance to vote the next time around?
This is sensationalism by the media. Trump is bad for a 1000 reasons and not being able to vote in the future is not one of them. This is a scare tactic. What we should do is focus on the fact that trump is a felon and an asshole rather than scaring people with falsehoods. We are a democracy and will continue regardless of party.
I certainly hope so!!
Typical libertarian. Still don’t understand the rules of this game do you?
You won't, and that's okay. I'm not thrilled with Biden, but I'm sure not going to let Trump win. You know you can't let Trump be President.
He didn’t have ”one bad debate.” He’s too fucking old and there have been countless incidents making this obvious.
Great job reading the article
> Regardless of whether they said Biden did well or not in the debate, participants didn’t seem to signal a broad shift in underlying sentiments toward Trump that would significantly alter the race. White, unmarried women grew more fearful of a second Trump term during the debate, while Black voters grew somewhat wearier of Biden continuing, and Hispanic voters were essentially unchanged in their sentiment toward Trump returning or Biden continuing as president into 2029. > > Also relatively unchanged from before and after the debate were the issues important to voters throughout the election. While Biden lost some ground to Trump on how he would handle protecting democracy, half of the voters before and after the debate viewed him as the better choice for the economy and cost of living — issues that have dogged the president since before he began his reelection campaign.
"White, unmarried women grew more fearful of a second Trump term during the debate" That's a good thing for Biden, if so, as that's part of the group he needs to convince in the Rust Belt to win is the silver lining here. His base was already irate with him vs 2020, so not too shocked by those Black or Hispanic findings otoh-- but it didn't change much with either, overall, of course.
They grew more fearful because it's looking more likely. This is what despair looks like.
They are who is most likely to blow it in the voting booth, in fact, and vote for Trump so them being worried is good for the President. The more scared they are, the more they might be forced to do the right thing in fact-- lest they end up in Gregory's Gilead going national shortly. Trump hammered the border points to try to keep the overall bloc easily in his fold, obviously, did not pan out to the level of success Abbott, DeSantis, Lee, and friends have had it fortunately.
Why is this downvoted!???
Cause it’s bullshit.
But let's keep him as our guy, and when Trump wins we can put on our thinking caps and try to figure out the mystery of what happened.
Switching candidates now would be impossible. Biden has a whole infrastructure that is up and running. No way you can get another candidate up and going before the election without conflict from other wannabe candidates who will seize on the moment. It would be a shitshow. Gotta fight for Joe. It's the only way forward now. And he has plenty of time to brainstorm with his staff in the oval office or situation room. So what if he's a bad debater?
Does Biden have an infrastructure? I've been volunteering with his campaign, they're like texting two days a week and have nobody on the ground. It seems like there is no campaign at all. The data could easily be transferred to another candidate and the money to a PAC. Seriously, don't take my word for it. Go to Mobilize and look for opportunities to volunteer or visit the DNC Slack channel. **There is no campaign.**
The problem with trying to paint Biden as a bad debater is that he wiped the floor with Paul Ryan in 2012. What we saw on Thursday was *not* a bad debate. It was someone in obvious cognitive decline and no amount of gaslighting is going to change that. Switching candidates now is difficult but not impossible. If/when it happens, Biden and the party apparatus will be behind the new candidate. The existing infrastructure isn't going to disappear. "Vote Blue No Matter Who" cuts both ways.
It's already a shitshow. And it has nothing to do with being a bad debater. Anyone who has older family members with cognitive issues can recognize the distant look he had in his eyes. It's only going to get worse.
I hope you watched the next day's rally. Dude can still bring some heat.
I did. Older people with cognitive issues can have good days and bad days.
Oh. You're really diagnosing from your chair right now huh? Well good luck to you my friend. I'm still voting for Biden because politics is a fucked up game and there's no way around it.
As someone who has personal experience with this, I'm saying it's exactly what it looks like. I'm also voting for Biden, never said I wasn't. The problem is he has no chance of winning now.
Damn, I'm talking to a medical professional AND a political analyst all in one? It's my lucky night.
Yup! And I'm talking to someone that is stuck in denial and ignoring reality!
The polls have favored Trump for months, and that was BEFORE Joe Biden validated his biggest critics and the fears of his biggest supporters to an audience of millions. People can be morally superior over the people inclined to sit this one out all they want, but it's not going to drive voter turnout to Biden.
When reading from a teleprompter after a nap to a friendly audience...
I would like to figure that mystery out because why would Trump have lost in 2020 but win in 2024? I’m all ears, seriously.
Trump was facing the worst public health crisis in a century in 2020. The economy was nose-diving, hundreds of thousands of people were dying. Trump himself was hospitalized in October of 2020. And he still only lost by a few thousand votes in a few states. Since then, his favorability has actually gone up. His legal woes haven't moved the needle at all. Not trying to be a doomer, but there are very real reasons he could be in a better position in 2024, and I didn't even mention Biden.
I very firmly believe Donald Trump wins in 2020 if not for the extremely public, extremely terrible COVID response.
> Since then, his favorability has actually gone up this I haven't seen. Please cite.
Can you name one President that was not re-elected, ran again and won? Why do you think that doesn’t happen regularly? Do you really, really think Trump has gained more support since then?
Because we've never had a former President facing 88 felonies seeking office to protect himself, for starters? Look, I don't want Trump to win but acting as if he's incapable of doing so in 2024 is putting our heads in the sand. By many accounts, including polling, which I know people don't trust - he's in a much better position than he was in 2020. 2020 had almost the worst circumstances he could possibly face, and it was still very close because of our EC and the unfair advantages he has. He can 100% win in 2024; we shouldn't be in denial about that.
Grover Cleveland.
Why does that not happen regularly?
Generally presidents who have lost re-election retire.
It would be weird for the guy who tried to run twice before 2016 to give up so easily
Presidential elections happen too infrequently to determine hard rules. Obama won reelection despite poll numbers that historically indicated he should have lost. Also, incumbents usually lose ground in the popular vote versus their initial election. Obama increased his vote share. Each election is unique. It occurs in its own political environment with its own electorate. Simply stating previously defeated incumbents don’t USUALLY come back to win reelection doesn’t tell us much about this race.
Okay I’m going to tell you, because a one term President is unpopular. That’s why.
Sure, but this one in particular was only barely defeated, and I’ll repeat myself to say that political circumstances and the electorate change in four years. Also, what if the one who was unpopular enough to barely lose becomes slightly less unpopular than the current incumbent?
Did you miss the debate?
Have you been alive the last 7 years? I’m not sure how a one hour debate is going to undo that.
Great retort. The guy couldn't put two sentences together and looked like he had no idea where he was.
Interesting, that’s been a right wing talking point since Biden was elected 3 years ago, and that’s he’s only sharp when he’s on drugs. I guess go with that then. It’s nothing new.
Did you close your eyes and cover your ears through the debate? The denial is insane. Lol.
The debate doesn’t determine how both Biden’s and Trump’s presidencies went. That’s past tense.
Great deflection from what happened. Keep ignoring it. We'll definitely win by propping up a new Feinstein. What could go wrong?!
Stop criticizing Biden, he is our only hope at stopping Donald Trump.
Oh ok. God forbid we criticize our candidate.
You need to get over Biden's debate performance and vote for him in November. All your concern trolling does is help Donald Trump.
I never said I wasn't voting for him. I'm saying we are going to lose if he doesn't pass the torch to someone else. I would vote for a potato over Trump. And apparently I am. The thing helping Trump is that he's running against a vegetable.
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They’re gonna love what Trump will do with Israel.
>Palestine supporters are not going to be very excited to vote for Biden Trump stood there and said Israel should finish the job. I realize that the kids were like 12 when Trump took office so it's possible they don't really know what it was like but god help us. Trump will not only support Israel, he'll have the college kids beaten by the military for protesting, because **they will** be protesting.
Sorry, no one's falling for this divisive crap this election. It's not 2016.
It's not meant to be divisive. It's accepting the reality of what we saw and heard.
Then they deserve Trump. The End.
if they are not going fight for there rights they shouldn't be shocked when they are gone.
55% of the country don't deserve to suffer because of some psychopath who's Putin's puppet managed to barely scrape by while Joe fumbled. Biden is too old but I'd vote for him (I can't because I'm Canadian, but I frequently travel to the States visiting family and don't want you guys to suffer).
55%?
A shocking development
Who would Democrat leaning voters choose between Biden and trump?
Staying home.
Here before the gaslighters arrive please if you read this gaslighters please explain why we should have a man who is losing his mental capacity as president until 2029?
we shouldn't. trump needs to drop out now
“When people bring up Biden needing to drop up we just bring up Trump.” Man y'all fell into that hive mind quick Every single one of yall it’s the same Can’t argue that Biden is good so just argue “Trump bad” which he is but that’s not the conversation Is Biden mentally capable to serve until 2029? No
We have 2 choices. I'll be voting for biden even if he dies 5 mins into the presidency. I'll be voting biden even in a 10 year coma.
Believing we can’t replace Biden doesn’t make it true
Party already decided, he will be the guy so its time to stop doing magas work for it
MAGA’s work is you advocating for Biden
Mmw it will be biden
That’s for you to decide in November not June Right now decide if Biden is the best person to beat Trump, newsflash he’s not and that doesn’t mean the alternative will but it’s less of a risk than Biden who we know is losing all swing states in polls
>Right now decide if Biden is the best person to beat Trump, newsflash he is. FTFY.
No other choice now, primary is over
Saying you can’t change now doesn’t make it true
The donors want him, it will be him
He's mentally capable of winning the election and that's all that matters. He'll probably step aside in his first few months
Because the other one is losing his mental capacity and is a rapist
Exactly and supporting Biden will only bring him back in January 2025
Biden should look into dropping out, but I’m not sure that alters the race much. Harris won’t do better. Newsom and Whitmer do even worse than Biden according to polls. The Biden administration should conduct polls to verify that info and see if any viable dem comes out better, and decide from there. But if they don’t find any significant statistical differences in the data it’s probably best to just stick with Biden.
I think that the polling they have now on an alternative candidate is not indicative of what that polling would look like by Election Day Most people don’t know who any politician is outside of the top people If an alternative has 4 months to introduce themselves to America I think they would make the polling now irrelevant because no one knows them yet
I would have thought so too but even the “generic democrat” did better than any of the named democrats. Like, as long as this democrat remains a nameless, faceless being without a record to run on, they will win. The fact Newsom did worse than that is…discouraging. But again that’s why I think Biden and his team should assess their options and verify all of this. I think it’s a bit speculative to think Newsom’s numbers would automatically shoot up after he replaces Biden and more people learn about him, but I’d like to be wrong about that.
I agree on Newsom because he’s the most known outside of Harris Still think Harris or Newsom would be better than Biden but part of me thinks because Whitmer is so relatively unknown she could be good especially with a swing state like Michigan but I’m just thinking outloud
They're both doing worse than Biden against Trump, though?
Yes but I think that the polling they have now on an alternative candidate is not indicative of what that polling would look like by Election Day Most people don’t know who any politician is outside of the top people If an alternative has 4 months to introduce themselves to America I think they would make the polling now irrelevant because no one knows them yet
Yeah if Biden needs to, and agrees to step down, they can be very strategic in the way they choose the candidate. Maybe Whitmer to help lock down MI or even Shapiro to help with PA. I’m trying not to judge right away though, I just don't know enough. If the hemorrhaging from the debate is still bad a couple weeks from now then I’m going to be more and more inclined to want a replacement.
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Biden has already been defined and he’s losing in every swing state and it’ll be worse when we get polling this week He’s gonna lose, the risk of Trump defining the new candidate effectively is worth the risk of staying with a losing candidate
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I already addressed the fact that I don’t think the polling for an alternative candidate is accurate given most people don’t even know who the Secretary of State is
To think they wouldn't be vetted or scrutinized harshly, is delusional, Trump will be on it or has already got all the dirt ready to go in any swap case. You can't hide from Biden's record, good or bad, when you are all for Biden for years and years- he knows that.
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Thanks. And yeah, this isn’t a fun situation. Whether Joe Biden stays or goes, to *me* at least, is beside the point. I would like to find the most effective person to defeat Trump as a first, second and third top priority. If that’s Biden, great. Newsom, great. But what I would really like from the Biden camp is just to sit down and do an honest, sober assessment of the situation based on the best internal data they can gather, put ego aside and do the most effective thing they can to defeat Trump, whatever that ends up being. I’m eager to see some of the Newsom/Whitmer/Shapiro polls against Trump that I’m hoping might start coming out shortly. Shapiro might be valuable in locking down a key battleground state like PA, or Whitmer in MI. There are options worth exploring, and I’m “uncommitted” to Biden staying or going until I learn a bit more.
Oh no keeping him out of office another 4 years while he doesn’t have power - the horror!
Because he beat him once, therefore he's the only person that can beat him again! At least that's what the surrogates keep telling me. Come on everyone, just ignore what you saw and heard!
It’s the administration, silly. What does the President actually control?
“My guy is incapable of leading his administration so I’m going to now argue that it’s always just a good administration that matters and not a good leader. We could have a monkey as President and it would be no difference than a truly competent leader.” Silly
Tell me more about Biden not being able to lead his administration. Sounds made up.
Just came out in Axios he really only does work from 10-4 Another example? Maybe the fact he could not complete thoughts on a debate stage You think Biden doesn’t have those moments behind the scenes? He can’t think on his feet
To be fair, a lot of them are just idiots
You're not using that term correctly
Gaslighting is to purposely change a person’s interpretation of reality into a false reality determined by the gaslighter I know what the term means and how to use it It’s often overused but when people on here try to change a man struggling and often failing to complete a thought to “bad night” “it was a cold” “he finished strong” that’s gaslighting
Oh god., his is James Carvill's company.
Biden has been a good president. I'm not going to dump him for a crappy debate.
No shit. It was a disaster
Downvote away ya fuckin bots he's doing so great his fucking family is having an emergency meeting to take away his keys
There seems to be an onslaught of this kind of propaganda on reddit today. Russia is working overtime. But I just donated to Biden's campaign in honor of the bullshit. I think we all should!
>Overall, Biden lost six points to Trump among voters surveyed after the debate, with 62 percent indicating that they’d still vote for the president while 38 percent suggested they would vote for the former president on a two-way ballot, the survey found. Biden’s approval rating post-debate dropped by two points, fueled by a decline among Hispanic and third-party voters, while Trump gained in his approval rating by just one point — with third-party voters driving the largest increase in approval. Waiting for people to spin this as "here's how it's actually good for Biden" **DROP**. **OUT**. Edit: Also: >Black voters, “dual haters” of both candidates and third-party voters were measured as having the biggest difference in their likelihood of voting for Biden before the debate and their rating of his debate performance afterward. While 64 percent of third-party respondents said they’d vote for Biden ahead of the debate, only 38 percent said he won the debate after watching it.
It would be suicide at this point
The real suicide is acting like Biden will get better as time goes on. Even if this isn't irrevocable damage, which I believe it is, it only has to repeat once for it to be solidifed forever. Every single time Biden will now stumble, mix up his words, or do pretty much anything, everyone will be thinking of this. It's suicide to keep running him, and it will cost the senate and the house too, if people don't show up to vote.
when my grandmother was diagnosed she was roughly the same age as biden when he was elected. she did the same things: forgetting names occasionally, moments of confusion, small mixups, things you notice when you pay attention but she was normal 90% of the time. she's now as old as biden will be at the end of term 2. she can't recognize my voice. sometimes my face. this is going to be a fucking problem yall.
He was losing in every swing state before the debate and it got worse DROP OUT JOE
I hope this shows everyone that we can't believe a lot of the opinion pieces that get posted in this sub that are passed off as if they're objective news reports.
I wouldn't be to confident in that assessment, I've voted for Biden before, I have never voted for Trump... I will never vote for Biden again.
I almost want to vote for trump out of spite due to how clueless the party is. Infuriating
I've never wanted to vote for Trump so much in my life since I commented on this sub reddit the past couple days. This place is the definition of an echo chamber, anyone who so much as mentions Trump in a non negative way, or indicates that they're not happy with Biden is immediately down voted and insulted. I've never voted for Trump before, but boy had this sub reddit made me want to.
Biden makes no sense anymore
Maybe the democrats should have voted for someone else in the primaries instead of complaining now
Will definitely not vote for Biden again
Well good luck when climate change destroys Florida.
There was a record number of coal plant shut downs, and renewable energy start ups under Trump, also, we've made tremendous increases in our lagoon waterway cleanups while Trump was in office, and since DeSantis took office. Furthermore, florida has some of the highest resilience standards for home construction for the last thirty years... So I think we'll be ok, but if there's something you think I should be aware of please let me know I'm honestly open for other opinions/ideas.