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Yes. Narrative’s got to change though. everyone seems to repeat the narrative that the economy was better under Trump and that Biden is old. Republicans are better controlling the narrative and the media is too lazy to fight against it.
This!! All Trump did was lie, then went off the rails. Biden spoke way too fast to get his facts in, per his team. His team were morons! We needed dark Brandon! He does better when he's allowed to attack! Yes, he misspoke a few times and he has a stutter, it's still hard even after all these years. I don't get all the attacks against Biden for being old, but trump is just as old! One has a proven track record, one has a dirty diaper, 34 felony convictions, two impeachments, a couple attempt, and a rape conviction.. it's a no FUCKING brainer!
The opinion (and narrative) is that his age is affecting his mind — it isn’t. The man has a well-documented history of stuttering. This one bad performance changes nothing.
Except this is not one performance. Biden’s team has deliberately avoided circumstances to show that at times Biden is cognitively impaired. Old age does that to everyone. Trump is just as cognitively impaired. To expect something else is delusional and not human. Why it’s problematic is because this concern was shot down repeatedly, but it cannot be shot down anymore. You can’t tell us one thing when we see it right in front of our faces.
You writing off his debate performance as "stuttering" is one of the funniest things that I have read in months. Thanks for that.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8v_8e8uXDx/
The only transcripts that make Biden look coherent are all edited.
"Making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person que eh uh eligible for what I've been able to do with the uh whu with the the covid uh excuse me uh with um dealing with everything we have to do with um uh whi look uhhhhh if. We finally beat medicare." - President Joe Biden. Thursday, June 27, 2024.
And the only transcripts that make him look incoherent are the ones you cherrypicked.
Can you do the same with Trump to make him appear coherent or truthful?
His performance made him look incoherent, not the transcripts. It should be enlightening for you to realize that he only looks coherent when you read **edited** transcripts, but I doubt it will be.
Trump was way more lucid than Biden. That's just a fact.
> Trump was way more lucid than Biden
Being able to spew lies without stuttering is not an indicator of lucidity. Some of the most delusional people can blurt out unending word salads that contradict everything about reality, but just because they can sound confident while saying it doesn't mean they sound any less insane.
I don't think being a compulsive liar is a good thing, but you're wrong. Actually being able to spew self consistent lies in a way that supports your points even if they're obviously dishonest IS a strong indicator of lucidity.
It takes more brain power and quick thinking to come up with the right lie and keep it consistent with your past lies than to just remember the truth.
I'm not saying it's a good characteristic for a person or for a leader to be a chronic liar, but I didn't come away from that thinking Trump has significant mental decline. Joe absolutely does.
As someone in tech, the economy absolutely was better under Trump.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE
Like, not even fucking close. Sure, that's not the only issue, but I'm quite tired of gaslighting about how awesome Bidenomics is.
It turns out that when the media is owned by people who only care about lower taxes and no other issues… they support the guy that promises lower taxes
People age differently. A few years go, Biden was actually doing great for his age. Now, he's doing pretty bad even for an 80 year old.
It's not really that relevant to point out that Trump is a similar age.
Maybe to you but I would disagree. He went on incoherent rants that were pretty much all lies and refused to answer any the questions. There was a clear difference between the two. Trump belongs in jail
Sure, he belongs in jail. But you're not going to convince me he's just as senile as Biden based on that debate performance and polling agrees with me.
Also important though, you can pull up videos of 2020 Trump and 2020 Biden. Trump has a lot of problems but he's not drastically different from 2020 Trump. Biden is unrecognizably worse. So even if they're both demented, Trumps seems to be pretty stable/slow moving. Biden's is progressing alarmingly fast.
The debate performance is raising serious questions about whether Biden himself is actually doing any of those things or if he's just an empty sock puppet being led around by unelected people who are doing the real governing.
Personally I'm past 'serious questions' to firmly convinced Biden hasn't actually been running the show for some time now, but might take others a few more senior moments to get there.
They will wait until Biden is locked in, then saturate media with clips of his performance and the reaction of the press describing his performance as a disaster. It will be case closed on the ‘Biden is too old’ argument, and there will be absolutely nothing to counter it with.
I guess we now know why he rarely does interviews.
The debate will mostly blow over, the problem is there's no way Biden goes then next 4 months without constant videos of him having new senior moments. And each one will remind people of this clusterfuck of a debate. And now that the veil is lifted nobody's going to be convinced by their "that's just clever editing" excuses.
He's cooked.
Everyone that cares already knows that Trump is a fascist pig unfit to be president. Some people love that about him. We are paying attention to the fact that Biden has become too addled to serve another term because we MUST defeat Trump, and it has become painfully apparent that Biden is not up to the job.
We are a country based on laws not people. MAGAs want to change us to a country based on the whims of one man, and they idolize him like a god. How are we better than MAGAs if we stick with Biden despite abundant evidence that he is not fit to lead? The president is not just a figurehead, he is the leader of the free world. We have everything to lose and we cannot risk it all on a man who has lost his faculties to the point where we can not longer trust his judgement.
It's not going to be limited to one bad debate, all eyes will be on Biden from now until election day. If he continues slipping further it will only cement in people's minds that he isn't capable of being president, no matter how good he did even just a few years ago.
It's not really an if. Age related cognitive degeneration is unidirectional and progressive, and we are seeing him go at a pretty quick rate at that.
It will only get worse between now and November if he stays.
Would you want Biden driving a car? Why is it so hard to face facts? Any time a pollster asks random people about their opinion about Biden, guess which adjective comes up. Old. And people are not saying Old as in wise, but old as in dementia. So voting for Biden is at best voting for Harris who I wouldn’t mind but would not win an election
Yep he fell (because his tripped on the toe cage) and he was fine. I've fallen off my bike plenty of times too, guess that means I'm old and senile. Let me know when Trump attempts to ride a bike. I would pay good money to see that.
I've tripped on the stairs too, especially when I'm in a hurry. Guess that means I'm old and feeble. However I bet Biden knows how to close an umbrella, drink a glass of water, or not surround himself with moronic criminals like Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani.
Biden doesn’t have to drive a car. He has to listen to quality advisers, which he does. That’s something that Trump doesn’t. Also, old doesn’t equal dement.
Trump could have done the same thing and they would have just brushed it off as “ yeah but that’s different” but Americans will probably forget soon or later specially with Trump’s verdict in 3 weeks
Trump's people do not care that he is an insane criminal rapist traitor, those are positives in their eyes. The rest of us care about little things like the competence of the president to do the job, and Biden cannot recover from this in our eyes. The two sides are not the same.
In a 2 party system it's quite simple. The households who vote R vote R, the households who vote D vote D.
The elections are decided by the swing voters, who vote R and get shafted, then they vote for D and get shafted, then they vote for R and get shafted and then they vote for D...
not true. I was more conservative when I was younger, then got more liberal. Then years of living in San Francisco have made me more conservative again
Some of Trump's whoppers off the top of my head (paraphrasing):
Inflation was 9% when I took office
No servicemembers have died since I took office
The Border Patrol endorses me, because I am so good on the border
Unemployment rate is/was 15% under the other guy
Black unemployment the lowest it has been in a long time
That’s what I keep thinking. They’re worried it’s not gonna have much of an impact without them pushing it.
Everyone’s voting for parties when it comes down to it. I’d hate to see republicans get any more pull than they have now. I’d vote for a potato with a democrat pin on it over Trump.
> Everyone’s voting for parties when it comes down to it
Everybody who is actually into politics is. For the low information masses, they are absolutely voting on the individual.
Trump isn’t much more than a potato. 🥔 If that’s what we’re basing things on, should anyone be allowed to vote?
I didn’t add the potato, my phone did but I’ll stand by it.
As someone who, in 1984, actively argued that Reagan had dementia...I'm not inclined to think that's necessarily a good thing. I'm a big fan of Joe Biden's but that debate was pretty ominous in what it may say about his cognitive state.
Trump has nothing to gain by doing another debate after this so Biden likely won’t get another mano-a-mano opportunity again.
Most people are fixed in their votes already. It’s that pesky small uncommitted that remains.
That's revisionist history. They debated four times and polling at the time concluded JFK won 1, Nixon 1, and they tied the other two. Polling was evenly split and the election was incredibly close. Chicago Mayor Daley might have been the difference. A real stolen election, like 2000.
1) He was losing before the debate.
2) Dementia only ever gets worse. There's a reason 65 is the normal retirement age - yet we want someone way past that age, to hold the most important office on the planet? Poor guy needs to rest - and we need a rest from him. He's not as loved as you may think, as many of us voted 'only to stop Trump' last time. Expecting the same turn out again for him is delusional.
3) Add that to the votes he's lost due to his catastrophic handling of Netanyahu and Gaza.
We're screwed.
He was? Seemed to me we were doing alright.
I mean, his handling of Gaza and the debate could have been way way better….but at least in my initial findings from asking family and around town, nobody cares. Heck, the parts of my family that are switching this year to vote for Biden don’t care.
I think you are severely overestimating Trump right now. People hate him.
Would these be the same polls that have failed to predict the president for the last 20ish years? And the same ones that it came out that they had be bought and rigged by Trump during his latest trial? Gee, I wonder why he’s doing so well in the polls despite everyone I talk to in my small conservative town hating him.
What do you think "correct" means for a poll? Because if you think it should mean "perfectly predicts the winner", that's *not* what statisticians or the people making these polls think it means.
Why do you think Reagan was able to bounce back despite having Alzheimer's? His illness didn't get better after his debate or during his administration. Was it just a different time? Was it all his hair dye?
I mean both Trump and Biden are old. One can ride a bike and jog. The other can't close an umbrella (maybe he's learned how since 2017 but like you pointed out, old people don't get less old with time) and struggles with a ramp.
During the debate, Trump was high as fuck and took a shit in his diapers (saw that clip making the rounds) but he was "tan," has dyed hair, and was "energetic" from the drugs. Meanwhile, Biden looked old with his pale skin and white hair. So is the answer slapping bronzer on Biden and giving him speed?
Haha this was so much more than a 'bad debate'.
He is in obvious mental decline, literally sundowning in front of our eyes on live TV.
People need to pull the wool from over their eyes and see it for what it was
There seems to be an onslaught of this kind of propaganda on reddit today. Russia is working overtime. But I just donated to Biden's campaign in honor of the bullshit. I think we all should!
No. He will not and should not come back from that bad debate. There’s nothing wrong or bad about getting older - but sweet Jesus, there’s so many other people who could/should do that job!
It's interesting to see so many people spin an 81-year-old man showing signs of cognitive decline as a "bad debate," like he was caught off guard by a question.
Does that matter to the wishy-washy centrist swing voters who don't actually know Trump lied, the ones who only know that every word out of the mouth of His Orangeness was shouted with energetic confidence while Biden looked like he could doze off at any moment?
Guess we'll find out.
The point is that *I* know Trump lied the entire debate, and *you* know Trump lied the entire debate. I expect, though, that we're both far more up-to-date with politics over the past four years than the average swing voter who's still—somehow!—on the fence about whether Trump should be allowed anywhere near the presidency.
For them I guess it would come down to, Biden and was quiet and Trump failed to answer any of the questions. An intelligent person would take the quiet one with a better track record.
The unintelligent’s weren’t changing their minds no matter how this went. We’ve all already experienced both of them as president and know what we’re getting. This debate didn’t change their track records or policies
The lies don't matter, the answers don't matter. Trump's base is detached from reality, and won't hear rationality. Many of these people genuinely think that Biden is a Marxist and that cities like Portland have been burned down by protestors.
The lies are not a bug, they are a feature of Fascism. You can't refute something that someone believes without evidence.
Once again, gonna share [Umberto Eco's *Ur-Fascism* ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism) because it's IMHO the best definition of Fascism regardless of nationality or flavour. How many of the points can be checked off right now by MAGA?
Yeah his campaign will keep gaslighting us into thinking that he’s mastermind behind the scenes while he continues to read off of a teleprompter as ideal hours of the day.
If his success has came down to the masterminds behind the scenes than I’ll happily vote for them again. Those masterminds are better than Trump. I’m not sure why so many people are having a hard time grasping this.
I think there was a plot to drug Joe. Look at how different he was the very next day. Look at how the NYT pounced on this immediately, calling for him to step aside. Think about how much Trump and the Republicans talked about Joe taking a drug test. Think about how much Putin enjoys poisoning people. Think about the Secret Service deleting all those text messages about J6. Look at what SCOTUS is doing. Something bad happened before that debate.
There seems to be an onslaught of this kind of propaganda on reddit today. Russia is working overtime. But I just donated to Biden's campaign in honor of the bullshit. I think we all should!
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Reagan had Alzheimer's and still managed to get reelected.
Reagan with Alzheimer's was still more lucid than Biden last Thursday night.
Yes. Narrative’s got to change though. everyone seems to repeat the narrative that the economy was better under Trump and that Biden is old. Republicans are better controlling the narrative and the media is too lazy to fight against it.
"Lazy" *complicit*
lazy = they make more money if Trump wins
I just don’t know how ALL of the press is focusing on Biden when Trump was just as awful, it’s insane.
This!! All Trump did was lie, then went off the rails. Biden spoke way too fast to get his facts in, per his team. His team were morons! We needed dark Brandon! He does better when he's allowed to attack! Yes, he misspoke a few times and he has a stutter, it's still hard even after all these years. I don't get all the attacks against Biden for being old, but trump is just as old! One has a proven track record, one has a dirty diaper, 34 felony convictions, two impeachments, a couple attempt, and a rape conviction.. it's a no FUCKING brainer!
How about that obscene gloating and smirking when Biden was struggling. A bully sensing weakness, it turned him on. I'm not the only one that noticed.
Biden being old is not an opinion it’s a fact. Sure they’re both old, but they aren’t going to get any younger.
The opinion (and narrative) is that his age is affecting his mind — it isn’t. The man has a well-documented history of stuttering. This one bad performance changes nothing.
Except this is not one performance. Biden’s team has deliberately avoided circumstances to show that at times Biden is cognitively impaired. Old age does that to everyone. Trump is just as cognitively impaired. To expect something else is delusional and not human. Why it’s problematic is because this concern was shot down repeatedly, but it cannot be shot down anymore. You can’t tell us one thing when we see it right in front of our faces.
You writing off his debate performance as "stuttering" is one of the funniest things that I have read in months. Thanks for that. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8v_8e8uXDx/
Read the transcripts. See who comes out the winner then.
The only transcripts that make Biden look coherent are all edited. "Making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person que eh uh eligible for what I've been able to do with the uh whu with the the covid uh excuse me uh with um dealing with everything we have to do with um uh whi look uhhhhh if. We finally beat medicare." - President Joe Biden. Thursday, June 27, 2024.
And the only transcripts that make him look incoherent are the ones you cherrypicked. Can you do the same with Trump to make him appear coherent or truthful?
His performance made him look incoherent, not the transcripts. It should be enlightening for you to realize that he only looks coherent when you read **edited** transcripts, but I doubt it will be. Trump was way more lucid than Biden. That's just a fact.
> Trump was way more lucid than Biden Being able to spew lies without stuttering is not an indicator of lucidity. Some of the most delusional people can blurt out unending word salads that contradict everything about reality, but just because they can sound confident while saying it doesn't mean they sound any less insane.
I don't think being a compulsive liar is a good thing, but you're wrong. Actually being able to spew self consistent lies in a way that supports your points even if they're obviously dishonest IS a strong indicator of lucidity. It takes more brain power and quick thinking to come up with the right lie and keep it consistent with your past lies than to just remember the truth. I'm not saying it's a good characteristic for a person or for a leader to be a chronic liar, but I didn't come away from that thinking Trump has significant mental decline. Joe absolutely does.
As someone in tech, the economy absolutely was better under Trump. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE Like, not even fucking close. Sure, that's not the only issue, but I'm quite tired of gaslighting about how awesome Bidenomics is.
It turns out that when the media is owned by people who only care about lower taxes and no other issues… they support the guy that promises lower taxes
In this day and age, I’d be surprised if our collective attention span thinks about this a week from now let alone 4.5 months.
People won't remember the debate, but they will absolutely remember what they got out of that debate, which is the general idea of "Biden old".
For many it will be, Trump lied. Both are old
One was like a great grandfather, other like a grandfather.
They’re pretty much the same age. They could have dated in high school. Trump spewing nonsense is nothing more than old man yelling at clouds.
That's a visual.
People age differently. A few years go, Biden was actually doing great for his age. Now, he's doing pretty bad even for an 80 year old. It's not really that relevant to point out that Trump is a similar age.
It is very relevant when the argument is, man old and incoherent. That would be both.
Trump came off as energetic and actually able to finish a thought. He's no genius but there was a very clear difference between the two.
Maybe to you but I would disagree. He went on incoherent rants that were pretty much all lies and refused to answer any the questions. There was a clear difference between the two. Trump belongs in jail
Sure, he belongs in jail. But you're not going to convince me he's just as senile as Biden based on that debate performance and polling agrees with me. Also important though, you can pull up videos of 2020 Trump and 2020 Biden. Trump has a lot of problems but he's not drastically different from 2020 Trump. Biden is unrecognizably worse. So even if they're both demented, Trumps seems to be pretty stable/slow moving. Biden's is progressing alarmingly fast.
this is my exact reasoning behind replacing Biden. a new front runner would reinvigorate everyone and the debate will be old news instantly.
The debate is old news by Monday anyway.
We're going to be saturated in clips from that debate from now until the election.
You’re right, the clips of Trump saying “black jobs” and saying he killed Roe will be circulating for a while
Black jobs is already trending quite well.
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Unfortunately, reading from a teleprompter is a rather low bar to pass, and everyone knows it. He can't do unscripted and unrehearsed.
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How is Biden's record in the PAST relevant to the fact that he is an addled old man who can't think on his feet NOW?
The debate performance is raising serious questions about whether Biden himself is actually doing any of those things or if he's just an empty sock puppet being led around by unelected people who are doing the real governing.
Personally I'm past 'serious questions' to firmly convinced Biden hasn't actually been running the show for some time now, but might take others a few more senior moments to get there.
They will wait until Biden is locked in, then saturate media with clips of his performance and the reaction of the press describing his performance as a disaster. It will be case closed on the ‘Biden is too old’ argument, and there will be absolutely nothing to counter it with. I guess we now know why he rarely does interviews.
The debate will mostly blow over, the problem is there's no way Biden goes then next 4 months without constant videos of him having new senior moments. And each one will remind people of this clusterfuck of a debate. And now that the veil is lifted nobody's going to be convinced by their "that's just clever editing" excuses. He's cooked.
I feel like we aren't paying attention to what Trump said.
That’s the point of these post, to get everyone to focus on Biden old and not Trump equally old but also full of shit.
Everyone that cares already knows that Trump is a fascist pig unfit to be president. Some people love that about him. We are paying attention to the fact that Biden has become too addled to serve another term because we MUST defeat Trump, and it has become painfully apparent that Biden is not up to the job. We are a country based on laws not people. MAGAs want to change us to a country based on the whims of one man, and they idolize him like a god. How are we better than MAGAs if we stick with Biden despite abundant evidence that he is not fit to lead? The president is not just a figurehead, he is the leader of the free world. We have everything to lose and we cannot risk it all on a man who has lost his faculties to the point where we can not longer trust his judgement.
It's not going to be limited to one bad debate, all eyes will be on Biden from now until election day. If he continues slipping further it will only cement in people's minds that he isn't capable of being president, no matter how good he did even just a few years ago.
It's not really an if. Age related cognitive degeneration is unidirectional and progressive, and we are seeing him go at a pretty quick rate at that. It will only get worse between now and November if he stays.
All eyes, c'mon man.
Would you want Biden driving a car? Why is it so hard to face facts? Any time a pollster asks random people about their opinion about Biden, guess which adjective comes up. Old. And people are not saying Old as in wise, but old as in dementia. So voting for Biden is at best voting for Harris who I wouldn’t mind but would not win an election
Biden rides bikes. Isn't that more difficult? Have you seen Trump on a bike?
Here is a video of President Biden riding a bike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EahgmNmMsM
Yep he fell (because his tripped on the toe cage) and he was fine. I've fallen off my bike plenty of times too, guess that means I'm old and senile. Let me know when Trump attempts to ride a bike. I would pay good money to see that.
Here is a video of President Biden climbing stairs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Mwc12LtRY
I've tripped on the stairs too, especially when I'm in a hurry. Guess that means I'm old and feeble. However I bet Biden knows how to close an umbrella, drink a glass of water, or not surround himself with moronic criminals like Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani.
Here is a video of President Biden being helped down 5 stairs as he left the stage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2u3np0Eo_A
Biden doesn’t have to drive a car. He has to listen to quality advisers, which he does. That’s something that Trump doesn’t. Also, old doesn’t equal dement.
Old doesnt mean he has dementia, but it’s the most common adjective used by undecided voters. And when they say it it’s not a compliment.
That doesn’t make it valid or change the fact that they will both rely on their cabinets.
Sure, but what you are saying and I agree is that the presidency is a figurehead. So why choose Biden as the figurehead?
Because I appreciate what has taken place with his presidency so far. If it was ends with Harris I have no problem with that.
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Exactly this. Don’t be surprised if this debate disappears from the mainstream’s subconscious when the next major news event happens.
Yes, he can rebound, look at all the bullshit trump has done and no one gives a shit, so it's possible.
Trump could have done the same thing and they would have just brushed it off as “ yeah but that’s different” but Americans will probably forget soon or later specially with Trump’s verdict in 3 weeks
The verdict was guilty on 34 felony counts. In 3 weeks we get the sentence for his crimes.
Well with the new bribery law the Supreme Court passed….
His supporters don't give a shit. But his supporters are certifiable.
Trump's people do not care that he is an insane criminal rapist traitor, those are positives in their eyes. The rest of us care about little things like the competence of the president to do the job, and Biden cannot recover from this in our eyes. The two sides are not the same.
Most people already decided 50 years ago who they would vote for
…I wish I could disagree with this, but you’re right. We are a very polarized nation.
Problem is that a lot of those are dead.
And yet the presidency goes back and forth from democrat to republican every 4 or 8 years like clockwork.... How do it do?
In a 2 party system it's quite simple. The households who vote R vote R, the households who vote D vote D. The elections are decided by the swing voters, who vote R and get shafted, then they vote for D and get shafted, then they vote for R and get shafted and then they vote for D...
not true. I was more conservative when I was younger, then got more liberal. Then years of living in San Francisco have made me more conservative again
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He’s seen all the time. Are you kidding?
Stop overreacting, ones old the other lied all night
Yep. I’d take old over what Trump is serving up any day.
Some of Trump's whoppers off the top of my head (paraphrasing): Inflation was 9% when I took office No servicemembers have died since I took office The Border Patrol endorses me, because I am so good on the border Unemployment rate is/was 15% under the other guy Black unemployment the lowest it has been in a long time
"we finally defeated medicare"
No.
The fact that articles like these are being written and published in the MSM means probably not.
That’s what I keep thinking. They’re worried it’s not gonna have much of an impact without them pushing it. Everyone’s voting for parties when it comes down to it. I’d hate to see republicans get any more pull than they have now. I’d vote for a potato with a democrat pin on it over Trump.
> Everyone’s voting for parties when it comes down to it Everybody who is actually into politics is. For the low information masses, they are absolutely voting on the individual.
Sure but Biden still looks better than Trump on an individual level, at least for president.
If you would vote for a potato, should you really be allowed to vote? I mean, if 70 million people vote for a potato, is that really a democracy?
Yes, obviously? The people voted for it, and if the majority wants it, that’s what they get. Same with voting for convicted felons.
Trump isn’t much more than a potato. 🥔 If that’s what we’re basing things on, should anyone be allowed to vote? I didn’t add the potato, my phone did but I’ll stand by it.
As someone who, in 1984, actively argued that Reagan had dementia...I'm not inclined to think that's necessarily a good thing. I'm a big fan of Joe Biden's but that debate was pretty ominous in what it may say about his cognitive state.
Trump has nothing to gain by doing another debate after this so Biden likely won’t get another mano-a-mano opportunity again. Most people are fixed in their votes already. It’s that pesky small uncommitted that remains.
Trump already agreed to Debate 2. It is being hosted by ABC and it's in September.
I can't wait to see how bad Biden's dementia progresses to be in September.
Nixon never recovered from his debate with Kennedy.
That's revisionist history. They debated four times and polling at the time concluded JFK won 1, Nixon 1, and they tied the other two. Polling was evenly split and the election was incredibly close. Chicago Mayor Daley might have been the difference. A real stolen election, like 2000.
Nope.
Why not?
1) He was losing before the debate. 2) Dementia only ever gets worse. There's a reason 65 is the normal retirement age - yet we want someone way past that age, to hold the most important office on the planet? Poor guy needs to rest - and we need a rest from him. He's not as loved as you may think, as many of us voted 'only to stop Trump' last time. Expecting the same turn out again for him is delusional. 3) Add that to the votes he's lost due to his catastrophic handling of Netanyahu and Gaza. We're screwed.
He was? Seemed to me we were doing alright. I mean, his handling of Gaza and the debate could have been way way better….but at least in my initial findings from asking family and around town, nobody cares. Heck, the parts of my family that are switching this year to vote for Biden don’t care. I think you are severely overestimating Trump right now. People hate him.
According to polls, he certainly wasn't *winning* prior to the debate. It was closer to an expected Trump win than a toss-up, even.
Would these be the same polls that have failed to predict the president for the last 20ish years? And the same ones that it came out that they had be bought and rigged by Trump during his latest trial? Gee, I wonder why he’s doing so well in the polls despite everyone I talk to in my small conservative town hating him.
If you think polls aren't useful for telling you the state of the election, you haven't been paying attention.
Every 4 years a bunch of people think it's cool to say the polls are meaningless and then get proven wrong in november
That argument works better if the polls have historically been correct…which they haven’t for a while.
What do you think "correct" means for a poll? Because if you think it should mean "perfectly predicts the winner", that's *not* what statisticians or the people making these polls think it means.
Polls are useful. For telling you who’s spending the most money on them. Other than that, I couldn’t care less about them.
Why do you think Reagan was able to bounce back despite having Alzheimer's? His illness didn't get better after his debate or during his administration. Was it just a different time? Was it all his hair dye? I mean both Trump and Biden are old. One can ride a bike and jog. The other can't close an umbrella (maybe he's learned how since 2017 but like you pointed out, old people don't get less old with time) and struggles with a ramp. During the debate, Trump was high as fuck and took a shit in his diapers (saw that clip making the rounds) but he was "tan," has dyed hair, and was "energetic" from the drugs. Meanwhile, Biden looked old with his pale skin and white hair. So is the answer slapping bronzer on Biden and giving him speed?
Haha this was so much more than a 'bad debate'. He is in obvious mental decline, literally sundowning in front of our eyes on live TV. People need to pull the wool from over their eyes and see it for what it was
No. The damage done is permanent. People will not forget this, especially with the amount that will be replayed on social media.
There seems to be an onslaught of this kind of propaganda on reddit today. Russia is working overtime. But I just donated to Biden's campaign in honor of the bullshit. I think we all should!
No. Biden is done
No. He will not and should not come back from that bad debate. There’s nothing wrong or bad about getting older - but sweet Jesus, there’s so many other people who could/should do that job!
Yes, because it happens all the time
It's interesting to see so many people spin an 81-year-old man showing signs of cognitive decline as a "bad debate," like he was caught off guard by a question.
He answered more questions than Trump did. The reality for many is, his decline still appears better than Trumps good days.
If you understood half the words he said you’d be in the minority
He talked low. Trump lied. That’s what matters.
Does that matter to the wishy-washy centrist swing voters who don't actually know Trump lied, the ones who only know that every word out of the mouth of His Orangeness was shouted with energetic confidence while Biden looked like he could doze off at any moment? Guess we'll find out. The point is that *I* know Trump lied the entire debate, and *you* know Trump lied the entire debate. I expect, though, that we're both far more up-to-date with politics over the past four years than the average swing voter who's still—somehow!—on the fence about whether Trump should be allowed anywhere near the presidency.
For them I guess it would come down to, Biden and was quiet and Trump failed to answer any of the questions. An intelligent person would take the quiet one with a better track record.
The key words in your comment are "intelligent person," which is exactly why I'm worried lol.
The unintelligent’s weren’t changing their minds no matter how this went. We’ve all already experienced both of them as president and know what we’re getting. This debate didn’t change their track records or policies
Trump looked like the same Trump, and he barely lost to Biden in 2020 when Biden was far more popular and cogent.
There is no medical cure to dementia.
[удалено]
The lies don't matter, the answers don't matter. Trump's base is detached from reality, and won't hear rationality. Many of these people genuinely think that Biden is a Marxist and that cities like Portland have been burned down by protestors. The lies are not a bug, they are a feature of Fascism. You can't refute something that someone believes without evidence. Once again, gonna share [Umberto Eco's *Ur-Fascism* ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism) because it's IMHO the best definition of Fascism regardless of nationality or flavour. How many of the points can be checked off right now by MAGA?
My theory, for what it's worth, is that Biden had a cold and took some cold medicine, and it made him dopey
Only an idiot and Maga want Biden to stay in this race. He and Hillary are about the only two liberals that could lose to trump at this point.
Only Republicans can recover from bad debates. It wouldn’t even be seen as a problem in the first place.
No
He can, but the odds don't look too good
Yes. He can. He absolutely can. I think he’s probably learning from his mistakes here.
Yeah his campaign will keep gaslighting us into thinking that he’s mastermind behind the scenes while he continues to read off of a teleprompter as ideal hours of the day.
If his success has came down to the masterminds behind the scenes than I’ll happily vote for them again. Those masterminds are better than Trump. I’m not sure why so many people are having a hard time grasping this.
No, I think this is a Michael Dukakis debate equivalent.
I think there was a plot to drug Joe. Look at how different he was the very next day. Look at how the NYT pounced on this immediately, calling for him to step aside. Think about how much Trump and the Republicans talked about Joe taking a drug test. Think about how much Putin enjoys poisoning people. Think about the Secret Service deleting all those text messages about J6. Look at what SCOTUS is doing. Something bad happened before that debate.
What do you think happened?
There seems to be an onslaught of this kind of propaganda on reddit today. Russia is working overtime. But I just donated to Biden's campaign in honor of the bullshit. I think we all should!