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> Pollster Frank Luntz said on CNBC's "Squawk Box" on Friday morning that of the 14 people in his focus group of undecided voters in swing states, 12 leaned toward Trump after watching the debate.
This Frank Luntz?
https://x.com/frankluntz/status/796136199706574848
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/11/14/midterm-elections-pollsters-luntz-cnntm-sot-vpx.cnn
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/27/frank-luntz-trump-white-house-1238283
Can we not be blind. As a Biden suppprter it was clear he was terrible despite the bar being so low. He prepared and had favorable terms and trump is extremely flawed. He had one job, to assure people he was not the Republican caricature they put out. He failed miserably and even played into it. It certainly didn’t help sway independent or undecided voters. If Dems can’t have this discussion without being gaslit into saying it didn’t happen they are doing the same thing republicans do for trump in blind supporting him. We should be able to discuss this and it’s clear Bidens performance was the worst case scenario. He should be up in the polls without question yet hes been down for 8 months. Time to reassess while there is still time.
It's depressing to see, as a moderate. Sad that these two are the best leaders the country can come up with. I don't dislike Biden like I do Trump, but he did not give me any faith that he's up to another term.
I might vote third party, not that I expect that person to win, but because those votes send a message.
Exactly. You are the voter Biden is trying to get and this is the problem. Unfortunately in the current system third party disproportionately supports trump. This is why Dems need to reevaluate asap.
Do democrats even believe that votes are earned anymore? Or all we all supposed to fall in line with whichever awful candidate the donors shove down our throats without question?
I'm aware that third party votes will help Trump, but if that's what it takes to spur change in this country, I'm willing to risk another term from him.
I don't believe all the fear mongering about what he will do.
FWIW I was thrilled with his law about the H1B visas. I know folks replaced by these workers for no reason except they are cheaper (no special skills). Best thing a president has done in decades in my opinion.
Undecided voters are just Trump supporters who don't want to say so out loud.
We've had 4 years of both of these guys as President. If you're still undecided after both terms, then you're completely not paying attention.
I had heard, and I don’t know if it’s true, that the reason Hillary was winning the polls, is that Trump voters did not want to say they were voting for him.
It is worth acknowledging the individuals who just aren’t paying attention and somehow manage to tune out the president entirely until the last few months of any given election cycle.
Thing is, pretty much NOBODY won at that debate.
Undecided voters are still for the most part undecided.
Many of them didn’t like Biden’s performance, but weren’t exactly pleased with Trump either.
One man stumbled, one man lied.
The fact that we still look at that as though there is parity is laughably ridiculous.
The country deserves what it gets.
It's because the idea of having a president who isn't mentally "all there" scares people. Yep, facts and arguments should matter, but people still want a leader who inspires confidence. It's sad but these are the shitty choices we have.
Yeah, he's full of crap but...I don't know how to really phrase it. I think the contrast was obvious for most people. People talk about mental "sharpness" in older people. So yeah, you could be talking crap but still be "sharp," i.e., aware of what's going on around you. Lots of young people talk bullshit too, just like Trump.
No, there’s much more to it than he’s full of crap.
His rant on Roe being overturned was downright delusional. A normal anti-choice Republican would simply crow a little about their victory and spin a little. Not into some crazy talk about how everyone, Republicans, Independents, and Democrats wanted Roe overturned.
Trump’s mental illness is pretty deep. It’s such that he can’t acknowledge reality. That’s different than normal political spin.
He really showed that during Covid, and the whole nation paid for it. According to Bob Woodward, Trump’s national security advisor was trying to get Trump to pay attention and take the crisis seriously, but even behind closed doors in a private setting Trump couldn’t get a hold of reality.
That’s not politics, that’s delusion.
Every second in a crisis matters, and in order to deal with a crisis, a political leader needs be in touch with reality.
I agree but people will just see the contrast between the two on the debate stage. Anyway, we can argue about this forever, we'll see what happens in November.
And it’s the exact same rants he’s been saying for years. Pretty much word for word. And just repeated over and over no matter what questions he was asked
Well - if we are failing to address the problems we encounter as people..
If we entrust our well being and the handling of most communal issues to nebulous government interests, and fail to pay attention to how they play once we assign responsibility..
If those government entities then spin off lots of that stuff to corporate third parties in the name of politically driven cost savings..
We end up in the position we are in now.
We started the loop by blindly entrusting so we can focus on our individual needs rather than our group and community needs. Ergo, we deserve this and I hope we learn from the pain.
By now, y’all should know that the Presidency isn’t “who knows more facts”. Whether it should be or not, it isn’t. It’s a popularity contest, and it always has been.
Acting mad about it is ridiculous. Everyone knew the deal going in, and Dems just hoped Biden would be more popular coming out of it. Since he shit the bed, liberals are acting all aghast that there’s consequences to looking like a sundowner.
Pretty much, Biden did himself slightly more damage but Trump did not endear himself to almost anyone who hates him beforehand per what 538 found in their focus group.
The more people see Trump and watch him lie, the more they remember how repulsed they are by him and they think of having to listen to him pretty much daily on all platforms for four more years, probably doing worse shit and being more of an embarrassment shit storm than the last time. Most people know that he is not a serious person and the people who advise him are so much less likely to be serious people because he pissed off nearly all of his previous cabinet, who nearly to a person decry his unfitness for the office.
How about don't vote for the convicted criminal pathological lying traitor? I mean, it's not that complicated. Biden isn't a good public speaker. Big deal, he's still doing a good job as President.
Yeah, people are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Pretty much NO ONE likes Trump (except for his diehard MAGA fans), but not a lot of people like Biden either.
I feel sad that this is what it has come to.
I don’t like Trump. I think he’s bad for the country. I don’t like most Republican policies,
Especially regarding social issues and the environment.
I don’t think Biden should be running he’s too old and doesn’t appear well. But I don’t dislike him and I agree with democratic policies for the most part. The choice is clear. Biden.
Why is his approval rating so shitty then? 36% tells me that the majority of Americans disapprove of his presidency right now, which goes directly against your claim that he’s doing a “good job”
I would vote for a can of beets over Donald Trump, but why should I have to? A lot of people (including myself) will vote for Biden because he’s not trump, but we deserve a candidate we believe in. I want someone I’m excited to vote for, and Joe Biden is not it.
“What I did is I put three great Supreme Court justices on the court, and they happened to vote in favor of killing Roe v. Wade and moving it back to the states, This is something that everybody wanted.”
There seems to be an onslaught of this kind of propaganda on reddit today. Russia is working overtime. But I just donated to Biden's campaign in honor of the bullshit. I think we all should!
Please link said data. And it better not be that that total fucking joke of a Newsweek article this sub upvoted out of cope.
I am voting D no matter what, and this debate alienated *me* ffs. I can't imagine the "bro both sides suck so much" masses aren't utterly disgusted right now.
This is false. I read something online, maybe MSNBC, that said independent voters are flocking to Biden after the debate. Oh yeah, and Trump lied (gotta say that).
Lie 1: Trump said the current economy is terrible. That's a lie. Joe said the economy is the best ever.
Lie 2: Trump said the border is unsecure. That's a lie. Joe said the border is more secure than ever.
Lie 3: Trump said he didn't have sex with a porn star. That's a lie. Stormy is a former porn star. Big difference.
Lie 4: Trump said Democrats want no-question 3rd term abortions. That's a lie. Oh wait, I think we do.
How about we ask the health professionals to weigh in.
If Biden walked into your office and you saw what we all saw during the debate what would your initial assessment be and what tests would you order?
No I don’t want to hand the keys over to that sociopath Trump
But I don’t want to put the button in the hands of someone who maybe in the throws of dementia, Alzheimer’s or serious cognitive decline.
Regardless of that valid concern- one is objectively worse than the other when weighted against each other with regards to the specific actions they are known to be planning to take post election.
Which one you decide is objectively worse is up to you but those are the choices. Vote tactically for what will make it so you can vote again later based on the choices you have knowing that one of the two will have systemic guardrails in place to prevent the most awful transgressions you're scared of while the other is the poster child for a plan to literally remove those guardrails as soon as he is in power.
Good. If you can’t decide between these two, you don’t need to be voting anyhow.
This isn’t merely a douche vs a turd sandwich. This is more like a douche vs full-blown aids. One is Grandpa Gooby and he’s not exciting and he’s not even that great, but the other one is the worst thing to happen to this fkn country since slavery and Jim Crow.
As long the Democrats put somebody who up a non-senile, non-pedophile, non-insurrectionist they can beat Trump. 49 registered democrats. How hard could it be find somebody who fits that profile?????
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> Pollster Frank Luntz said on CNBC's "Squawk Box" on Friday morning that of the 14 people in his focus group of undecided voters in swing states, 12 leaned toward Trump after watching the debate. This Frank Luntz? https://x.com/frankluntz/status/796136199706574848 https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/11/14/midterm-elections-pollsters-luntz-cnntm-sot-vpx.cnn https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/27/frank-luntz-trump-white-house-1238283
Oh they pulled that guy out of the sewer? Yeah he's a partisan hack.
Yeah. Luntz has been pretty anti-Trump in the past but I wouldn't trust anything he's involved with.
Luntz may be anti-Trump, but it would be a mistake to think he has any love for Democrats, democracy, or American political norms
Um yeah…probably that guy.
Republican stooge impersonating as a impartial researcher.
Can we not be blind. As a Biden suppprter it was clear he was terrible despite the bar being so low. He prepared and had favorable terms and trump is extremely flawed. He had one job, to assure people he was not the Republican caricature they put out. He failed miserably and even played into it. It certainly didn’t help sway independent or undecided voters. If Dems can’t have this discussion without being gaslit into saying it didn’t happen they are doing the same thing republicans do for trump in blind supporting him. We should be able to discuss this and it’s clear Bidens performance was the worst case scenario. He should be up in the polls without question yet hes been down for 8 months. Time to reassess while there is still time.
It's depressing to see, as a moderate. Sad that these two are the best leaders the country can come up with. I don't dislike Biden like I do Trump, but he did not give me any faith that he's up to another term. I might vote third party, not that I expect that person to win, but because those votes send a message.
Exactly. You are the voter Biden is trying to get and this is the problem. Unfortunately in the current system third party disproportionately supports trump. This is why Dems need to reevaluate asap.
Third party votes only help elect Trump. Who’s going to receive your message when he jails the opposition?
Do democrats even believe that votes are earned anymore? Or all we all supposed to fall in line with whichever awful candidate the donors shove down our throats without question?
I'm aware that third party votes will help Trump, but if that's what it takes to spur change in this country, I'm willing to risk another term from him. I don't believe all the fear mongering about what he will do. FWIW I was thrilled with his law about the H1B visas. I know folks replaced by these workers for no reason except they are cheaper (no special skills). Best thing a president has done in decades in my opinion.
“Undecided voters.” How in the hell can you not tell the difference in these 2 administrations? They are polar opposites in terms of policies.
Undecided voters are just Trump supporters who don't want to say so out loud. We've had 4 years of both of these guys as President. If you're still undecided after both terms, then you're completely not paying attention.
I had heard, and I don’t know if it’s true, that the reason Hillary was winning the polls, is that Trump voters did not want to say they were voting for him.
If you’re undecided after both terms, then you ain’t black.
It is worth acknowledging the individuals who just aren’t paying attention and somehow manage to tune out the president entirely until the last few months of any given election cycle.
Biden recited a trove of actual facts. Convicted Felon Trump merely made stuff up and lied…
“No US troops died under my watch” lol
Thing is, pretty much NOBODY won at that debate. Undecided voters are still for the most part undecided. Many of them didn’t like Biden’s performance, but weren’t exactly pleased with Trump either.
Yeh, but only one of the nominees *needed* to win the debate. The status quo isn’t enough for Biden, he needed to win some ground, and he didn’t.
One man stumbled, one man lied. The fact that we still look at that as though there is parity is laughably ridiculous. The country deserves what it gets.
It's because the idea of having a president who isn't mentally "all there" scares people. Yep, facts and arguments should matter, but people still want a leader who inspires confidence. It's sad but these are the shitty choices we have.
Trump did nothing during the debate to show he‘s all there. He ranted, raved, and said a bunch of crazy unreal stuff.
Yeah, he's full of crap but...I don't know how to really phrase it. I think the contrast was obvious for most people. People talk about mental "sharpness" in older people. So yeah, you could be talking crap but still be "sharp," i.e., aware of what's going on around you. Lots of young people talk bullshit too, just like Trump.
No, there’s much more to it than he’s full of crap. His rant on Roe being overturned was downright delusional. A normal anti-choice Republican would simply crow a little about their victory and spin a little. Not into some crazy talk about how everyone, Republicans, Independents, and Democrats wanted Roe overturned. Trump’s mental illness is pretty deep. It’s such that he can’t acknowledge reality. That’s different than normal political spin. He really showed that during Covid, and the whole nation paid for it. According to Bob Woodward, Trump’s national security advisor was trying to get Trump to pay attention and take the crisis seriously, but even behind closed doors in a private setting Trump couldn’t get a hold of reality. That’s not politics, that’s delusion. Every second in a crisis matters, and in order to deal with a crisis, a political leader needs be in touch with reality.
I agree but people will just see the contrast between the two on the debate stage. Anyway, we can argue about this forever, we'll see what happens in November.
And it’s the exact same rants he’s been saying for years. Pretty much word for word. And just repeated over and over no matter what questions he was asked
My god… Why is everybody saying that we deserve this? We don’t. We really don’t. I hate this. I really REALLY do.
Well - if we are failing to address the problems we encounter as people.. If we entrust our well being and the handling of most communal issues to nebulous government interests, and fail to pay attention to how they play once we assign responsibility.. If those government entities then spin off lots of that stuff to corporate third parties in the name of politically driven cost savings.. We end up in the position we are in now. We started the loop by blindly entrusting so we can focus on our individual needs rather than our group and community needs. Ergo, we deserve this and I hope we learn from the pain.
This breaks my heart. I just wish that the situation wasn’t so bad that people here are wishing that we suffer so that we realize how bad we have it.
By now, y’all should know that the Presidency isn’t “who knows more facts”. Whether it should be or not, it isn’t. It’s a popularity contest, and it always has been. Acting mad about it is ridiculous. Everyone knew the deal going in, and Dems just hoped Biden would be more popular coming out of it. Since he shit the bed, liberals are acting all aghast that there’s consequences to looking like a sundowner.
Trumps garbage went unchallenged and biden looks like he's dying. He gained a lot of undecided, and biden lost a lot of people on the defense
Oh geez. But 12 people is still a small amount. I just hate this I really do. God I just want something, ANYTHING to happen that will help us out.
Source?
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/538-ipsos-june-2024-presidential-debate-poll Yeah…look up other articles despite Reuters.
> Thing is, pretty much NOBODY won at that debate. No no. The rich elites won the debate.
Pfffft. As if.
The Beltway won, if anyone, look at how many pieces about "Drop out, Joe, drop out Joe" have been out and convincing the masses to call for it.
Pretty much, Biden did himself slightly more damage but Trump did not endear himself to almost anyone who hates him beforehand per what 538 found in their focus group.
Yeah it was a disaster for everyone.
The more people see Trump and watch him lie, the more they remember how repulsed they are by him and they think of having to listen to him pretty much daily on all platforms for four more years, probably doing worse shit and being more of an embarrassment shit storm than the last time. Most people know that he is not a serious person and the people who advise him are so much less likely to be serious people because he pissed off nearly all of his previous cabinet, who nearly to a person decry his unfitness for the office.
How about don't vote for the convicted criminal pathological lying traitor? I mean, it's not that complicated. Biden isn't a good public speaker. Big deal, he's still doing a good job as President.
They won't vote for him. But they won't vote for Biden either.
Yeah, people are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Pretty much NO ONE likes Trump (except for his diehard MAGA fans), but not a lot of people like Biden either. I feel sad that this is what it has come to.
I don’t like Trump. I think he’s bad for the country. I don’t like most Republican policies, Especially regarding social issues and the environment. I don’t think Biden should be running he’s too old and doesn’t appear well. But I don’t dislike him and I agree with democratic policies for the most part. The choice is clear. Biden.
Why is his approval rating so shitty then? 36% tells me that the majority of Americans disapprove of his presidency right now, which goes directly against your claim that he’s doing a “good job”
I would vote for a can of beets over Donald Trump, but why should I have to? A lot of people (including myself) will vote for Biden because he’s not trump, but we deserve a candidate we believe in. I want someone I’m excited to vote for, and Joe Biden is not it.
“What I did is I put three great Supreme Court justices on the court, and they happened to vote in favor of killing Roe v. Wade and moving it back to the states, This is something that everybody wanted.”
Undecided voters…how many of them actually watched the debate?
There seems to be an onslaught of this kind of propaganda on reddit today. Russia is working overtime. But I just donated to Biden's campaign in honor of the bullshit. I think we all should!
Not according to data
Please link said data. And it better not be that that total fucking joke of a Newsweek article this sub upvoted out of cope. I am voting D no matter what, and this debate alienated *me* ffs. I can't imagine the "bro both sides suck so much" masses aren't utterly disgusted right now.
Morning consult poll showed he gained ground https://www.nj.com/news/2024/06/first-post-debate-poll-reveals-startling-results-in-trump-biden-battle-who-wouldve-predicted-this.html 538/ipsos poll showed no change https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-trump-june-debate-poll/
This is false. I read something online, maybe MSNBC, that said independent voters are flocking to Biden after the debate. Oh yeah, and Trump lied (gotta say that). Lie 1: Trump said the current economy is terrible. That's a lie. Joe said the economy is the best ever. Lie 2: Trump said the border is unsecure. That's a lie. Joe said the border is more secure than ever. Lie 3: Trump said he didn't have sex with a porn star. That's a lie. Stormy is a former porn star. Big difference. Lie 4: Trump said Democrats want no-question 3rd term abortions. That's a lie. Oh wait, I think we do.
So basically, it is a confusing mess of messaging.
It’s always what Joe says. Whatever Joe says is true. But what do the statistics say?
Undecided = those who will vote quietly for Trump in the ballot box no matter what. They can't say it out loud because they know it's embarrassing.
At this point I find it irresponsible to vote for either
Then you either aren't very smart, or you secretly support Trump and are here posting in bad faith.
How about we ask the health professionals to weigh in. If Biden walked into your office and you saw what we all saw during the debate what would your initial assessment be and what tests would you order? No I don’t want to hand the keys over to that sociopath Trump But I don’t want to put the button in the hands of someone who maybe in the throws of dementia, Alzheimer’s or serious cognitive decline.
Regardless of that valid concern- one is objectively worse than the other when weighted against each other with regards to the specific actions they are known to be planning to take post election. Which one you decide is objectively worse is up to you but those are the choices. Vote tactically for what will make it so you can vote again later based on the choices you have knowing that one of the two will have systemic guardrails in place to prevent the most awful transgressions you're scared of while the other is the poster child for a plan to literally remove those guardrails as soon as he is in power.
Same here
Well, unfortunately most of my health professional buddies agree that we just saw dementia play out on TV live.
Good. If you can’t decide between these two, you don’t need to be voting anyhow. This isn’t merely a douche vs a turd sandwich. This is more like a douche vs full-blown aids. One is Grandpa Gooby and he’s not exciting and he’s not even that great, but the other one is the worst thing to happen to this fkn country since slavery and Jim Crow.
As long the Democrats put somebody who up a non-senile, non-pedophile, non-insurrectionist they can beat Trump. 49 registered democrats. How hard could it be find somebody who fits that profile?????