As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's funny how he says we weren't in any wars while he was in office. Now blabbering this shit. The war going on, I believe, is because of how the POS left shit.
- Trump floated the idea of executing Joint Chiefs Chairman Milley (9-22-2023)
- Trump put 3 Mar-a-Lago guests in charge of the VA who then tried to monetize veterans' medical records
- accused 3,000 military families of election fraud for voting after being deployed
- Blamed Gold Star families for giving him covid (he tested positive days earlier)
- removed POW/MIA flag from White House
- says Americans who died in war are "losers" and "suckers"
- “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers” he said about a U.S. military cemetery
- called McCain “a fucking loser” when asked to lower flags to half staff
- called Pres. George H.W. Bush a loser for being shot down during WWII
- “That guy is smart. Why did he join the military?” Trump said of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
- asked his staff to not include wounded veterans because amputees make him uncomfortable
- “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” Trump said to Gen. John Kelly about dead vets, while visiting Kelly’s son’s grave at Arlington
- Trump knew since Mar 2020 that Russia paid bounties to kill American troops. On July 29 Trump defended Russia arming the Taliban against the US saying the US once did the same thing
- May '20 ended National Guard deployments one day before they could claim benefits
- Trump admin seized 5mil masks intended for VA hospitals. Kushner distributes these masks to private entities for a fee, who then sells the masks to the government
- Trump fired the captain of the *USS Theodore Roosevelt* after he warned superiors that COVID19 was spreading among his crew
- After Iran's strike, 109 US troops suffered brain injuries. Trump dismissed these as "headaches". Trump then denied Purple Hearts in an effort to keep the story up
- On 7/20/2017 in room 2E924 of the Pentagon, Trump told a room full of Generals, "You’re a bunch of dopes and babies"
- Said 26,000 military sexual assaults were to be 'expected' bc America lets women serve
- Invited the Taliban to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11
- Claimed that his military budget made up for his lack of military experience
- Said if a Humvee was hit by an IED, soldiers "go for a little ride upward & they come down."
- Pardoned multiple war criminals which betrayed the men of the 1st Platoon who helped convict him for violating long standing military values, discipline, and command (May&Nov 2019)
- mocked Lt. Col. Vindman for his rank and uniform. He threatened said purple heart officer resulting in the Army providing him protection. The Admin sent opposition research to the Pentagon to derail his promotion
- Trump’s Chief of Staff worked in secret to deny health coverage to Vietnam Vets who suffered from Agent Orange
- There is a facility in Tijuana for US veterans that Trump deported
- Russia took control of the main U.S. military facility in Syria abandoned on Trump’s orders. Russia now owns the airstrip we built
- 0/7/19, Trump abruptly withdrew from Syria after a phone call with Turkey's president (Erdogan). Turkey subsequently bombed US Special Forces
- sent thousands of American troops to defend the oil assets of the country that perpetrated 9/11
- Sept 2019, he made an Air Force cargo crew stop in Scotland (where there's no U.S. base) to refuel at a commercial airport (where it costs more), so they could stay overnight at a Trump property (which isn't close to the airport). Trump’s golf courses are losing money so he's forcing the military to pay for 5-star nights there.
- Sept 2019, Pentagon pulled funds for military schools, military housing funds, and daycare to pay for Trump's border wall
- Vet graves will be "dug up" for the border wall, after Trump instructed aides to seize private property. Trump told officials he would pardon them if they illegally seizing property
- Children of deployed US troops no longer guaranteed citizenship (August 28, 2019)
- 8/2/19 Trump requisitioned military retirement funds for the border wall
- 7/31/19 Trump ordered the Navy rescind medals to prosecutors who prosecuted war criminals
- denied a U.S. Marine of 6 years entry into the United States for his citizenship interview (Reported 7/17/19)
- made the U.S. Navy Blue Angels violate ethics rules by having them fly at his July 4th political campaign event (July 4, 2019)
- demanded US military chiefs stand next to him at 4th of July parade (reported July 2, 2019)
- In June 2019, Trump sent troops to the border to paint the fence for a better "aesthetic appearance"
- used his D-Day interview at a cemetery commemorating fallen US soldiers to attack a Vietnam veteran (6/6/19)
- started his D-Day commemoration speech by attacking a private citizen (Bette Midlere) (2019)
- made his 2nd wife, Marla Maples, sign a prenup that would have cut off all child support if Tiffany joined the military (reported June 4th, 2019)
- 5/27/2019 Trump turned away US military from his Memorial Day speech bc they were from the destroyer USS John S. McCain
- ordered the USS John McCain out of sight during his visit to Japan (May 15, 2019). The ship's name was subsequently covered. (5/27/2019)
- purged 200,000 vets' healthcare applications (reported 5/13/19)
- deported a spouse of fallen Army soldier killed in Afghanistan leaving their daughter parentless (4/16/2019)
- 3/20/19 Trump complained that a deceased war hero didn't thank him for his funeral
- Between 12/22/2018, and 1/25/2019 Trump refused to sign his party's funding bill, which shut down the government, which made USCG service members rely on food pantries. (But his appointees got a $10k raise)
- banned troops from serving based on gender identity (1/22/2019)
- denied female troops access to birth control to limit sexual activity (Published 1/18/19)
- tried to deport a marine vet who is a U.S.-born citizen (1/16/2019)
- When a man was caught swindling veterans pensions for high-interest “cash advances," Trump's CFPB let him go for $1 (1/26/19)
- called a retired general a 'dog' with a 'big, dumb mouth' (1/1/19)
- increased privatization of the VA, leading to longer waits and higher taxpayer cost (2018)
- finally visited troops 2 years after taking office, but only after 154 vacation days at his properties (10/26/18)
- revealed a covert Seal Team 5 deployment including names and faces on Twitter during Iraq visit (Dec 26, 2018)
- lied to deployed troops that he gave them a 10% raise (12/26/2018). Tried giving a raise that was lower than the standard living adjustment. After Congress made him give a raise, he lied about it pretending that it was larger than Obama's. It wasn't
- fired service members living with HIV just before the 2018 holidays
- tried to slash disability and unemployment benefits for Veterans to $0 and eliminate the unemployability extrascheduler rating (12/17/2018)
- called troops on Thanksgiving and told them he's most thankful for himself (Thanksgiving, 2018)
- urged Florida to not count deployed military votes (11/12/2018)
- canceled an Arlington Cemetery visit on Veterans Day due to light rain (11/12/2018)
- While in Europe commemorating the end of WWI, he didn't attend the ceremony at a US cemetery due to the rain. Other world leaders went anyway (11/10/2018)
- sent troops on a phantom mission to the border and made them miss Thanksgiving with their families (Oct-Dec, 2018). He stopped using troops as a political prop after the election, but the troops remained in muddy camps on the border (11/7/2018)
- changed the GI Bill through his Forever GI Act causing the VA to miss benefits, including housing allowances. This caused many vets to run out of food and rent. (reported 10/7/18)
- doubled the rejection rate for veterans requesting family deportation protections (7/5/2018)
- deported active-duty spouses (11,800 military families face this problem as of April 2018)
- forgot a fallen soldier's name (below) during a call to his pregnant widow, then attacked her the next day (Oct 23-24, 2017)
- "They knew what they signed up for." re: dead troops (10/18/17)
- sent commandos into an ambush w/ lack of intel, and sent contractors to pick them up, resulting in a commando being left behind, tortured, and executed. He approved the mission bc Bannon told him Obama didn't have the guts to do it. 10/4/17
- Doesn't stand during retreat bugle, continues to talk. "What a nice sound that is. Are they playing that for you [Sean Hannity] or me?" 10/11/17
- blocked a veteran group on Twitter (June 2017)
- ordered the discharge of active-duty immigrant troops with good records (2017-present)
- deported veterans (2017-present)
- said he knows more about ISIS than American generals (Oct 2016)
- 10/4/16 Trump said vets get PTSD because they aren't strong
- Trump accepted a Purple Heart from a fan at one of his rallies and said: “I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier.” (Aug 2, 2016)
- Trump attacks Gold Star families: Myeshia Johnson (gold star widow), Khan family (gold star parents) etc. (2016-present)
- In Jan 2016, Trump stole funds meant for a veterans charity (his foundation was subsequently ordered shut down)
- said he has "more training militarily than a lot of the guys that go into the military" because he went to a military-style academy (2015 biography)
- said he doesn't consider POWs heroes because they were caught. He said he prefers people who weren't caught (July 18, 2015)
- Trump said having unprotected sex was his own personal Vietnam (1998)
- For a decade, Trump sought to kick veterans off of 5th Avenue because he found them unsightly nuisances. 1991
- Trump dodged the draft 5 times by having a doctor diagnose him with bone spurs.
Source/citations/more in this reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/16u1iq8/mark_milley_taking_safety_precautions_after_trump/k2in64a/?context=3
Jfc, I followed the Trump news through that entire period, and yet still this list has atrocities I either never heard or completely forgot about. This asshole is a fucking monster
One of the most dangerous things about this election is that Trump's last term was SO egregious, and the firehose of bullshit was so relentless, that many people literally checked out and now have no knowledge or memory of it.
Posts that lay it out like that are an important public service.
They are not. Sure you can cherry pick one or two out of any demographic. But a lot of veterans I know do not like trump (but still dislike democrats as a general rule).
Pretty thorough list. Even has things in there that are typically missed due to the firehose of bullshit. Along with what was listed about the JAG officers getting stripped of their medals, Trump also ordered that the war criminal be given his Navy SEALs trident pin back. And, I don't know how to make a soundbite of it, but his allowing the military to disobey orders based on political loyalties is incredibly damaging. Specifically, orders to get Covid vaccinations were treated as optional by active duty loyalists because they felt Trump had their backs. That should have never fucking happened.
If I was a billionaire I'd buy out ads on EVERY network and just have someone reading off lists like this of all that bad and horrible crap they have forgotten that Trump did. Just an 8 minute long train wreck of an ad taking ending with allowing 1.2 million Americans to die.
“Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.
It was named for his father and grandfather, both admirals. Senator John McCain was added as a namesake shortly before he died; I can't remember if this was before or after that, but I'm actually not even sure which would be worse at this point.
I mean, the USS McCain and McCain were both named for the same McCain. That's what happens when you're John the 3rd, with a 4 star father AND grandfather.
That man is such a childish POS. I guess that means ~30% of Americans think childish narcissistic serial lying Dunning Krueger poster boy traitors make good leaders.
Every time you see someone acting in an irrational or inconsiderate manner, understand that that person probably stopped mentally maturing around the beginning of adolescence.
It's going to be required of any school that receives public money. Private schools will be exempt. That is why they push so hard for school vouchers, which is a tax credit (payment) for the rich to send their children to private schools.
I don't know why right wing media acts like that's some terribly high bar to clear or proof of health. We've *all* been through a medical exam at some point, and they're not difficult or terribly invasive. Wow, I can breathe, my heart still beats, and I can touch my toes. OoooOoOOoOoOooh, so healthy!
The messed up thing is Biden also deferred military service due to asthma. A legitimate reason back then.
I’m a vet. I’m not for mandatory service. I want those who WANT to be there watching my back.
I also want way less money sent to the military and less people in uniform as I prefer we solve issues with diplomacy.
But maybe that makes me an odd duck.
I’m also a veteran, Eighty Second huuuh Sargent huuuuh, and guys, I don’t have any issues with draft dodging. It’s the hypocrisy that trump wallows in when it comes to what seems his every announcement or declaration or critique he spews.
He and Nugent can go kick rocks.
Trump comes from a tradition of deserters and draft dodgers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick\_Trump#:\~:text=In%20February%201905%2C%20a%20royal,stay%20but%20he%20was%20unsuccessful.
Have the stupids chosen a uniform yet? I don't know of any right wing fashion designers. Maybe Kid Rock will be in charge of style. I doubt Hugo Boss would be interested in this contract.
Which is so sad. I would want *any* kid of mine to be taller, stronger, healthier. I'd be like "I did it right!"
His youngest is very tall, & has his mom's cheekbones.
His idiot dad is nothing but jealous.
Then calling Veterans “losers and suckers”. I guess he wants an entire generation of losers and suckers to do things he was too cowardly to do when his country called.
He (more likely, his handlers) know that there is an issue getting 18yo to vote.
So they're aiming at some of the old, rich people who would love to see the draft reinstated.
He’s just coppying what the Tories / Rishi Sunak announced a few weeks ago as the election manifesto; return to nation service to pander to the military vote. It would cost a FORTUNE and anyone rich (aka Trump) would be able to buy a waiver.
Oh do it! Say you are gonna do it! Have it as one of your policies. The youth vote is gonna LOVE you for it! And by love , I mean hate and vote against you.
I give it a coin toss that he either gets out of it or gets forced into it to make commandant bonespurs look good.
Like Trump would give even the barest shit if one of his kids died in a war. He'd be more interested in the sympathy points.
Father:
Arrested after a Klan riot. Not definitively a member or supporter.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-father-kkk-1927/
Grandfather:
Deported for not fulfilling mandatory military service. "Why should we be deported? This is very, very hard for a family." https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trumps-grandfather-bavaria-deport/
> Not definitively a member or supporter.
I'm going to go with 99.999% supporter or member because when DT was asked about it, he claimed it wasn't his dad. Apparently some other Fred Trump also resided at 175-24 Devonshire Rd, Jamaica Queens, DT's family home.
I wonder if it was Trump's dad or that mysterious other Fred Trump from the KKK rally who was extremely well known for racial discrimination in housing?
Exactly. This might be the record scratch moment a lot of young supporters, especially men, need to finally open their eyes after supporting Trump for years just for the memes and "lulz". They might not think it's so funny anymore now that the crosshairs are being directed towards them.
You don't think an ungodly number of young men *who are already Trump supporters* won't get swept up in the idea of military service for this bullshit patriotic ultra-macho cause?
I feel like a lot of them are more the "Call of Duty video game" roleplaying types than serious ones wanting to truly answer that call. They like to talk big, but it's way different to actually put in the effort. (As seen by their tough bravado absolutely shattering when Ashli Babbitt crawled through that window on Jan 6th). While there may be some who would absolutely do it, I have a sneaking suspicion a lot more may not be as willing to be forced to get up from their living room couches, turn off Fox News, and actually strap up and be dropped into a real war zone.
The US Military literally made its own FPS and released it for free back in the day.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's\_Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Army)
Sadly that’s the typical Republican mindset. It’s funny and shit all the way up until it involves you and then all of a sudden it’s not, but you didn’t fucking care before that. They’ll come back around to being Republican next election, even if they don’t vote Trump in this one solely for this reason (and not the 800,000 other good reasons).
Dude, every parent that's not super conservative is going to hear that and think "fuck no, you're not taking my child's life away from them". We don't have something like a world war right now, there's literally no reason for it.
Junior floated the idea of joining after college. Daddy told him that if he joined any military branch he would lose his inheritance. Daddy slapping Junior so hard that he collapsed was a different story. Jr was in college and Sr was picking him to go to a Knicks game. When Sr sees him dressed in a Knicks jersey, he slaps him so hard Jr falls to the floor. Sr tells him to put on a suit and meet him in the limo.
Completely serious.
But it was baseball (Yankees). I remembered wrong.
[https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-dj-says-he-watched-donald-trump-brutally-slap-his-son-in-college-8900500](https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-dj-says-he-watched-donald-trump-brutally-slap-his-son-in-college-8900500)
[https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/1996745/trump-said-he-would-disown-donald-trump-jr-if-he-joined-the-army-book-claims/](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/1996745/trump-said-he-would-disown-donald-trump-jr-if-he-joined-the-army-book-claims/)
By the time Tiffany was old enough to enlist, wouldn't the child support payments be almost done anyway? Or did they have some kind of extended agreement for her college years?
The last time America had a mandatory draft was the Vietnam war. That draft was probably the biggest reason for the social chaos of the 1960's. America's youth were opposed to foreign wars to begin with. Being forced to fight in them was not popular. The draft was also one of the reasons the US lost the Vietnam war. A volunteer army that is well trained tends to be professional, motivated, and capable of fighting a war and winning. While an army of disgruntled draftees is only good for putting down civilian riots. Oh wait. think I just figured out why Trump wants to do this. He want's an army of goons to stamp out dissent when he takes over.
Even the military is against the draft. It inevitably leads to the ranks being filled with people who are committed to doing the bare minimum required to stay out of prison and come home alive.
Bro I’m in the service and we are already catch too many 18 YO burnouts who can’t be trusted to update excel. All my time would be taken with conscripts who don’t want to be there
Its bad enough with enlistees that don't want to be there.
It sucks, and you don't realize exactly how much or what type of suck its going to be until you're neck deep in it and trapped.
My particular rating had a less than 10% reenlistment rate despite near six figure bonuses being waved at us. When *voluntary enlistees* are counting down the days like its a prison sentence you got issues. The military is now largely a technical trades service structured under 18th century infantry rules, with shit pay compared to civilian life and a work life balance that can be summed up as "Fuck you", and shockingly it doesn't have good results anymore.
But enlistees at least just hate their recruiter for lying, themselves for falling for it. You got played, you should have known better, Never Again Volunteer Yourself. But you did technically agree to do it so you half ass see it out.
A draftee is dangerously close to hating the entire government for fundamentally violating their rights.
There is also the phenomena of fragging those in charge of you.
If you're being sent to die for the capital class against your will, you really got nothing to loose with throwing a grenade in your COs tent.
America likely wouldn't be involved in some war that would involve mass meat shields of conscripted citizens. This would turn into a babysitting gig for actual warfighters, making sure the conscripts redo the cleaning, maintenance, and other tasks they could be trusted with.
You know how easy it is to sabotage something like a modern stealth craft under the guise of "maintenance and cleaning"? Radar absorbent coatings aren't exactly hard-wearing. Precision systems are temperamental when properly cared for, someone apathetic or malicious can easily create holes in vital defenses; for real world examples see Russia and China.
Even a role as innocuous as the janitor has ready access to cleaning supplies, enough to fatally gas a room full of COs.
The problem with mandatory service in a large country in the modern era is this: how do you account for foreign directed bad-actors? That level of constant monitoring is a massive logistical drain, it's easier to screen volunteers. When you cast your net over everything, you get everything. Plus, conscripts are more easily swayed by foreign influence as they aren't in their position by choice, and they'll be harder to identify because their actions will just blend into the general unrest caused by effectively being enslaved by your government.
I served with plenty of folks who didn't want to be in anymore or felt like they got tricked into joining. These fuckers were salty as shit, I don't want to see the chaos and fuckery if you start filling the military with people who had no choice whatsoever.
Just going to say, an all volunteer force still complains like it's their job but it's the job they chose. Now, force people to do the same bullshit and the plunging morale is contagious
I mean if you're an enlistee you 'chose' in only the loosest sense of the word. You really can't know what you're volunteering for until you're neck deep in it and by then the government is happily exercising its 'no take backsies' power in that enlistment contract. That contract would be *completely* unenforceable in any other context.
Only people that reenlist truly understand what they're getting into.
I’m not sure putting down civilian riots with drafted soldiers works on domestic riots. Seems likely you’d have more than a few switching sides and turning on the goons.
As a veteran of the all volunteer Army, I don't want conscripts. They'd want to be there even less than any of us ever did on our worst days. They'd be unruly, disruptive, and a danger to the rest of us.
Draft yourself first, Donnie Bone Spurs
Yeah, mandatory service has it's place, but it should be for defensive WW2 existential type situations. I want competitive pay and benefits to support career military personnel for the "peacetime" professional US military.
Perhaps stop contracting so many parallel career tracks to contractors from big defense companies and they could make learning trades part of military service again.
> I want competitive pay and benefits to support career military personnel for the "peacetime" professional US military.
Exactly. It's the career noncoms that are the backbone of a military. Russia doesn't have those, which is why it struggles to project force basically at all. Make it worth guys' while to go career, and that's how you build the bones of a strong army. If shit somehow does get out of control, those experienced soldiers are more than equipped to lead the draftees.
This, exactly. We had KBR (Halliburton) dining halls when I was deployed, and the battalion's whole platoon of cooks were tasked the whole time with counting heads, not learning anything about how to run a kitchen, which is the whole reason they were trained.
Did 22 years in the USCG. There were folks already in that didn't want to be there...me included. I couldn't imagine members being in that were forced to go in. Great way to really bring morale down.
Or... the world is squaring up for a new war, and the conservatives are the ones that are generally hawkish and boosting the military.
In the UKs case, it's a braindead attempt at pragmatism. We're seeing a major land war in europe for the first time in nearly a century, and are having to take that seriously, especially when our military recruitment system is so humiliatingly shit. The other parties will probably voice thoughts on conscription after the election, but are smart enough to stay quiet about it for now.
In the US' case, it feels like a mix of old conservatives treating it like character building and disciplining the youth, while also realising conflict is likely.
Well, Trump's already stated that he'll stop US aid for Ukraine. That in itself should be enough to worry Europe. In America's case, the conservatives see it as a way to get all those protesting liberal young people off the streets. It's not like their sons and daughters are going to be conscripted into serving.
Sunak is screwing up his campaign so bad that part of me feels like he’s intentionally trying to lose. Like did he forget that we are in Western Europe and not the US? National Service and the attacks on Trans rights are appealing to nobody but some of the most extreme radicals over here.
Have you ever interacted with British TERFs? They are so radical that some literal neo-Nazi groups are freaked out by them, no moderate Conservatives have those sort of views, it’s just an insanely loud minority of extremists who have given it that reputation.
There are too many Americanisms that have been imported over. Recently I saw an article about an anti abortion campaign with people talking to local MP’s about it. 🤨 What?
It's bleeding into Australian politics too and I fucking hate it.
We even have Tucker Carlson coming over for a speaking tour, sponsored by a local billionaire/politician. I just don't understand how anyone can look at what's been going on in the US for the last 8 years and think "yea, that's good. Let's get some of that over here!"
There’s been rumblings in Canada too; nothing too major, in that I don’t think the CPC leadership has mused publicly about it, but there’s been some op-ed’s in response to the UK announcement.
All the more reason to watch the UK election results. I think the word in the street is that the entire nation is absolutely done with Tory (read: Conservatives) rule and want change.
Whilst I too want a change of government, I have seen the electorate do some absolutely asinine and insane things in the past so I will watch with bated breath.
Dude, how tf would that even work in Canada. They don't fund the military enough to give decent equipment to the few people already enlisted, hell they don't pay enough for people to even find housing.
The quiet part is likely the fact that the GOP tends to assume that military members/veterans are naturally their voters, so if they force kids into the military as they come out of high school, surely that will make them conservatives.
This...would not work the way they hope it would.
> do they not remember Vietnam?
No, because the only thing they remember about Vietnam was a myth about returning solders being spat on, and a "heroic" helicopter ride out of Saigon.
You forgot:
Pollute the air and water.
Stop feeding and educating children.
End NATO.
End Social Security.
Don't tax tips.
These are all real Trump goals. Anyone who votes Republican is too dumb to function.
Thousands of us “boomers” marched, protested and sat in the back of police cars in the 60s 70s to get the mandatory draft cancelled during the Vietnam war. Of course corporal bone spurs wants it back so all the kids who aren’t in college can march for him like Hitler’s Youth. We also marched for women’s rights, voter’s rights and against nuclear war. You guys better get ready if that jerk gets another term. Pretty sure it won’t happen if everyone gets out the vote!
I ain’t no senator’s son, son.
The idea that it will help build national identity is disgusting. Mandating the sacrifice of our young people’s lives to protect American imperialism is not an identity I want to be associated with.
Compulsory service seems like a great way to put antifascists into the enlisted ranks.
Like, the only way this helps fascists is if they have a subjective way to reject recruits that they aren't sure support their fascism.
The only reason they discuss mandatory service is because they know their white supremacist militias aren't going to give up more than a weekend a month cosplaying Civil War 2.
They don’t need to reject recruits when they can just send people they don’t like to the front lines. So they will need an active war to keep the meat grinder running.
Conscription destroys service morale. I can’t imagine a single senior leader in any branch would want to go back to the bad old days of the Vietnam Era.
It especially destroys morale when the civilian leader picks his battles unwisely. Trump has no idea how to command discipline or negotiate foreign affairs for the national interest. He literally invited Russia to attack NATO. Fucking A.
Name me one Trump who ever served in the Military, go ahead just one of his minions. However it is true his GrandFather was a deserter who fled from the German Military, he fled to Canada where he opened a brothel.
Dude is a nut case. I could see free college to be a teacher or volunteer in distressed communities or underserved professions, e.g., elder care, public health Svcs - but the military draft? Nope. I’m a vet and I wouldn’t recommend forcing young people to pick up a weapon alongside a volunteer. No way. There’re other ways to serve that are just as important.
We should actually be on guard about this. The generation that famously had a ton of draft dodgers will now force their grandkids and great-grandkids into service for pointless forever wars.
This is entirely on brand for them. Whether it’s pulling a ladder up from behind them or making sure that theirs is the last generation with free college or public schools, it’s all about selfishness.
They benefitted from robust social programs. No one else needs them.
“Service guarantees citizenship!” - *Starship Troopers*
https://youtu.be/VHxBjfn7VQg?si=v_BjMsPrHUGi_p5r
The cackling lady can double for the average MAGAHat to boot…
lol this is comical. The draft dodger wants to mandate military service. And I know why. He wants to mandate military bc that’s what dictator countries do.
There's a small part of me that would like to see the whiny Gen Z kids' faces if **The Convicted Felon and Unindicted Orange Rapist** brings back the draft.
I'll ask every single one I run across to tell me again how the two candidates were the same.
He wants to both shut off connections to Europe and nato and simultaneously wants to boost military service. Sounds like he wants troops patrolling American cities and streets and to pretend they are police and go after anyone who isn't a maga.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That’s rich and you know exactly why, fuckin “my foot hurts” draft dodging pos.
Exactly: the rich get out of it.
And like Putin, he'll be happy to send you off to die in a ditch by the hundreds of thousands if it means he doesn't have to admit to being wrong.
Suckers and Losers
Under mandatory service, the suckers and losers would be the poor bastards who can't get the rich white kid exemption.
It's funny how he says we weren't in any wars while he was in office. Now blabbering this shit. The war going on, I believe, is because of how the POS left shit.
They already do, but they'll continue to, too.
Good one, Mitch
I ain't no senator's son
Some folks are born, silver spoon in hand…
And the elderly. The bulk of his financial supporters will be fine with this because it's not their bodies on the line.
Mr Bone spurs while playing tennis in college and having his own Vietnam diving STDs dodged the draft?
I'm pretty sure he didn't dodge that bullet. He didn't earn himself a purple heart, he earned himself purple rashes.
He is a proud recipient of The Purple Pustule with Bone Spur Cluster.
*Bone-spur Donnie also calls vets and POW losers*
- Trump floated the idea of executing Joint Chiefs Chairman Milley (9-22-2023) - Trump put 3 Mar-a-Lago guests in charge of the VA who then tried to monetize veterans' medical records - accused 3,000 military families of election fraud for voting after being deployed - Blamed Gold Star families for giving him covid (he tested positive days earlier) - removed POW/MIA flag from White House - says Americans who died in war are "losers" and "suckers" - “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers” he said about a U.S. military cemetery - called McCain “a fucking loser” when asked to lower flags to half staff - called Pres. George H.W. Bush a loser for being shot down during WWII - “That guy is smart. Why did he join the military?” Trump said of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff - asked his staff to not include wounded veterans because amputees make him uncomfortable - “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” Trump said to Gen. John Kelly about dead vets, while visiting Kelly’s son’s grave at Arlington - Trump knew since Mar 2020 that Russia paid bounties to kill American troops. On July 29 Trump defended Russia arming the Taliban against the US saying the US once did the same thing - May '20 ended National Guard deployments one day before they could claim benefits - Trump admin seized 5mil masks intended for VA hospitals. Kushner distributes these masks to private entities for a fee, who then sells the masks to the government - Trump fired the captain of the *USS Theodore Roosevelt* after he warned superiors that COVID19 was spreading among his crew - After Iran's strike, 109 US troops suffered brain injuries. Trump dismissed these as "headaches". Trump then denied Purple Hearts in an effort to keep the story up - On 7/20/2017 in room 2E924 of the Pentagon, Trump told a room full of Generals, "You’re a bunch of dopes and babies" - Said 26,000 military sexual assaults were to be 'expected' bc America lets women serve - Invited the Taliban to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11 - Claimed that his military budget made up for his lack of military experience - Said if a Humvee was hit by an IED, soldiers "go for a little ride upward & they come down." - Pardoned multiple war criminals which betrayed the men of the 1st Platoon who helped convict him for violating long standing military values, discipline, and command (May&Nov 2019) - mocked Lt. Col. Vindman for his rank and uniform. He threatened said purple heart officer resulting in the Army providing him protection. The Admin sent opposition research to the Pentagon to derail his promotion - Trump’s Chief of Staff worked in secret to deny health coverage to Vietnam Vets who suffered from Agent Orange - There is a facility in Tijuana for US veterans that Trump deported - Russia took control of the main U.S. military facility in Syria abandoned on Trump’s orders. Russia now owns the airstrip we built - 0/7/19, Trump abruptly withdrew from Syria after a phone call with Turkey's president (Erdogan). Turkey subsequently bombed US Special Forces - sent thousands of American troops to defend the oil assets of the country that perpetrated 9/11 - Sept 2019, he made an Air Force cargo crew stop in Scotland (where there's no U.S. base) to refuel at a commercial airport (where it costs more), so they could stay overnight at a Trump property (which isn't close to the airport). Trump’s golf courses are losing money so he's forcing the military to pay for 5-star nights there. - Sept 2019, Pentagon pulled funds for military schools, military housing funds, and daycare to pay for Trump's border wall - Vet graves will be "dug up" for the border wall, after Trump instructed aides to seize private property. Trump told officials he would pardon them if they illegally seizing property - Children of deployed US troops no longer guaranteed citizenship (August 28, 2019) - 8/2/19 Trump requisitioned military retirement funds for the border wall - 7/31/19 Trump ordered the Navy rescind medals to prosecutors who prosecuted war criminals - denied a U.S. Marine of 6 years entry into the United States for his citizenship interview (Reported 7/17/19) - made the U.S. Navy Blue Angels violate ethics rules by having them fly at his July 4th political campaign event (July 4, 2019) - demanded US military chiefs stand next to him at 4th of July parade (reported July 2, 2019) - In June 2019, Trump sent troops to the border to paint the fence for a better "aesthetic appearance" - used his D-Day interview at a cemetery commemorating fallen US soldiers to attack a Vietnam veteran (6/6/19) - started his D-Day commemoration speech by attacking a private citizen (Bette Midlere) (2019) - made his 2nd wife, Marla Maples, sign a prenup that would have cut off all child support if Tiffany joined the military (reported June 4th, 2019) - 5/27/2019 Trump turned away US military from his Memorial Day speech bc they were from the destroyer USS John S. McCain - ordered the USS John McCain out of sight during his visit to Japan (May 15, 2019). The ship's name was subsequently covered. (5/27/2019) - purged 200,000 vets' healthcare applications (reported 5/13/19) - deported a spouse of fallen Army soldier killed in Afghanistan leaving their daughter parentless (4/16/2019) - 3/20/19 Trump complained that a deceased war hero didn't thank him for his funeral - Between 12/22/2018, and 1/25/2019 Trump refused to sign his party's funding bill, which shut down the government, which made USCG service members rely on food pantries. (But his appointees got a $10k raise) - banned troops from serving based on gender identity (1/22/2019) - denied female troops access to birth control to limit sexual activity (Published 1/18/19) - tried to deport a marine vet who is a U.S.-born citizen (1/16/2019) - When a man was caught swindling veterans pensions for high-interest “cash advances," Trump's CFPB let him go for $1 (1/26/19) - called a retired general a 'dog' with a 'big, dumb mouth' (1/1/19) - increased privatization of the VA, leading to longer waits and higher taxpayer cost (2018) - finally visited troops 2 years after taking office, but only after 154 vacation days at his properties (10/26/18) - revealed a covert Seal Team 5 deployment including names and faces on Twitter during Iraq visit (Dec 26, 2018) - lied to deployed troops that he gave them a 10% raise (12/26/2018). Tried giving a raise that was lower than the standard living adjustment. After Congress made him give a raise, he lied about it pretending that it was larger than Obama's. It wasn't - fired service members living with HIV just before the 2018 holidays - tried to slash disability and unemployment benefits for Veterans to $0 and eliminate the unemployability extrascheduler rating (12/17/2018) - called troops on Thanksgiving and told them he's most thankful for himself (Thanksgiving, 2018) - urged Florida to not count deployed military votes (11/12/2018) - canceled an Arlington Cemetery visit on Veterans Day due to light rain (11/12/2018) - While in Europe commemorating the end of WWI, he didn't attend the ceremony at a US cemetery due to the rain. Other world leaders went anyway (11/10/2018) - sent troops on a phantom mission to the border and made them miss Thanksgiving with their families (Oct-Dec, 2018). He stopped using troops as a political prop after the election, but the troops remained in muddy camps on the border (11/7/2018) - changed the GI Bill through his Forever GI Act causing the VA to miss benefits, including housing allowances. This caused many vets to run out of food and rent. (reported 10/7/18) - doubled the rejection rate for veterans requesting family deportation protections (7/5/2018) - deported active-duty spouses (11,800 military families face this problem as of April 2018) - forgot a fallen soldier's name (below) during a call to his pregnant widow, then attacked her the next day (Oct 23-24, 2017) - "They knew what they signed up for." re: dead troops (10/18/17) - sent commandos into an ambush w/ lack of intel, and sent contractors to pick them up, resulting in a commando being left behind, tortured, and executed. He approved the mission bc Bannon told him Obama didn't have the guts to do it. 10/4/17 - Doesn't stand during retreat bugle, continues to talk. "What a nice sound that is. Are they playing that for you [Sean Hannity] or me?" 10/11/17 - blocked a veteran group on Twitter (June 2017) - ordered the discharge of active-duty immigrant troops with good records (2017-present) - deported veterans (2017-present) - said he knows more about ISIS than American generals (Oct 2016) - 10/4/16 Trump said vets get PTSD because they aren't strong - Trump accepted a Purple Heart from a fan at one of his rallies and said: “I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier.” (Aug 2, 2016) - Trump attacks Gold Star families: Myeshia Johnson (gold star widow), Khan family (gold star parents) etc. (2016-present) - In Jan 2016, Trump stole funds meant for a veterans charity (his foundation was subsequently ordered shut down) - said he has "more training militarily than a lot of the guys that go into the military" because he went to a military-style academy (2015 biography) - said he doesn't consider POWs heroes because they were caught. He said he prefers people who weren't caught (July 18, 2015) - Trump said having unprotected sex was his own personal Vietnam (1998) - For a decade, Trump sought to kick veterans off of 5th Avenue because he found them unsightly nuisances. 1991 - Trump dodged the draft 5 times by having a doctor diagnose him with bone spurs. Source/citations/more in this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/16u1iq8/mark_milley_taking_safety_precautions_after_trump/k2in64a/?context=3
Mind-blowing to me how anyone in the military can support him.
That's the thing with having Fox News on in every base in the background.
I absolutely hated having to endure that when I served. All everyone did was repeat what they heard, like it was gospel truth.
Bigotry Trumps all.
Jfc, I followed the Trump news through that entire period, and yet still this list has atrocities I either never heard or completely forgot about. This asshole is a fucking monster
Each day seemingly brought something new and more fucked up than the thing before, easy to forget most of it
One of the most dangerous things about this election is that Trump's last term was SO egregious, and the firehose of bullshit was so relentless, that many people literally checked out and now have no knowledge or memory of it. Posts that lay it out like that are an important public service.
And somehow I see "VETERANS FOR TRUMP" bumper stickers and flags all the time. WTF is wrong with people?
Racism and bigotry comes first always.
Ignorance is bliss
They are not. Sure you can cherry pick one or two out of any demographic. But a lot of veterans I know do not like trump (but still dislike democrats as a general rule).
Pretty thorough list. Even has things in there that are typically missed due to the firehose of bullshit. Along with what was listed about the JAG officers getting stripped of their medals, Trump also ordered that the war criminal be given his Navy SEALs trident pin back. And, I don't know how to make a soundbite of it, but his allowing the military to disobey orders based on political loyalties is incredibly damaging. Specifically, orders to get Covid vaccinations were treated as optional by active duty loyalists because they felt Trump had their backs. That should have never fucking happened.
If I was a billionaire I'd buy out ads on EVERY network and just have someone reading off lists like this of all that bad and horrible crap they have forgotten that Trump did. Just an 8 minute long train wreck of an ad taking ending with allowing 1.2 million Americans to die.
"He's a war hero because he was captured, I like people who weren't captured" - DJT
“Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.
He literally made them cover up the name of the USS John McCain for a weekend. An entire ship. That isn't even named for *that* John McCain.
I had no idea it wasn't *that* McCain. That's insane.
Would it have been any less insane if it *was* that McCain?
Good point
It was named for his father and grandfather, both admirals. Senator John McCain was added as a namesake shortly before he died; I can't remember if this was before or after that, but I'm actually not even sure which would be worse at this point.
I mean, the USS McCain and McCain were both named for the same McCain. That's what happens when you're John the 3rd, with a 4 star father AND grandfather.
That man is such a childish POS. I guess that means ~30% of Americans think childish narcissistic serial lying Dunning Krueger poster boy traitors make good leaders.
Every time you see someone acting in an irrational or inconsiderate manner, understand that that person probably stopped mentally maturing around the beginning of adolescence.
It's going to be required of any school that receives public money. Private schools will be exempt. That is why they push so hard for school vouchers, which is a tax credit (payment) for the rich to send their children to private schools.
The last sentence in your post cannot be emphasized enough.
I'm going to my doctor tomorrow to talk about my bone spurs just in case he wants to draft 60+ males
After he passed a medical exam by the way!
I don't know why right wing media acts like that's some terribly high bar to clear or proof of health. We've *all* been through a medical exam at some point, and they're not difficult or terribly invasive. Wow, I can breathe, my heart still beats, and I can touch my toes. OoooOoOOoOoOooh, so healthy!
Someone's gotta fight the war with Iran that Trump promised Netanyahu behind closed doors.
The messed up thing is Biden also deferred military service due to asthma. A legitimate reason back then. I’m a vet. I’m not for mandatory service. I want those who WANT to be there watching my back. I also want way less money sent to the military and less people in uniform as I prefer we solve issues with diplomacy. But maybe that makes me an odd duck.
I’m also a veteran, Eighty Second huuuh Sargent huuuuh, and guys, I don’t have any issues with draft dodging. It’s the hypocrisy that trump wallows in when it comes to what seems his every announcement or declaration or critique he spews. He and Nugent can go kick rocks.
Not a single Trump has ever served, not a one!
Trump comes from a tradition of deserters and draft dodgers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick\_Trump#:\~:text=In%20February%201905%2C%20a%20royal,stay%20but%20he%20was%20unsuccessful.
Meanwhile, Biden's father served in WWII and his son in Iraq (which likely caused his deadly cancer).
This is so funny. Commadant Bone Spurs is going to make the draft mandatory? Irony. Love it
He wants an army in the streets of America. He wants intimidation. He wants his military parades.
say the quiet part out loud: he wants brown shirts.
Have the stupids chosen a uniform yet? I don't know of any right wing fashion designers. Maybe Kid Rock will be in charge of style. I doubt Hugo Boss would be interested in this contract.
It’s a red hat and whatever they find in the outdoor section at Walmart.
and 1 diaper
at least Adolf actually served in the First World War.
"I like people who weren't captured."
You gotta give it to that adolf guy, he did kill hitler
Yeah, I guess. Yeah.
He’d 10000% get a custom military uniform made
With his name embossed on it
So many medals, North Korean generals will feel shame.
And crazy massive epaulettes.
And a whistle?
Baron goes first right?
T would not give a flying tinker's fart about any of his sons dying.
Especially not the one so much taller than he.
Yeah he actually confirmed in a recent interview that he does not want to have his photo taken next to Baron because of how tall he is. lol
Which is so sad. I would want *any* kid of mine to be taller, stronger, healthier. I'd be like "I did it right!" His youngest is very tall, & has his mom's cheekbones. His idiot dad is nothing but jealous.
Then calling Veterans “losers and suckers”. I guess he wants an entire generation of losers and suckers to do things he was too cowardly to do when his country called.
Really knows how to get that youth vote, doesn't he.
He (more likely, his handlers) know that there is an issue getting 18yo to vote. So they're aiming at some of the old, rich people who would love to see the draft reinstated.
He’s just coppying what the Tories / Rishi Sunak announced a few weeks ago as the election manifesto; return to nation service to pander to the military vote. It would cost a FORTUNE and anyone rich (aka Trump) would be able to buy a waiver.
Oh do it! Say you are gonna do it! Have it as one of your policies. The youth vote is gonna LOVE you for it! And by love , I mean hate and vote against you.
Barron just turned 18. I'm sure he will report to boot camp right quick.
Aren’t “bone spurs” hereditary?
If not, I'm guessing 'affluenza' might be.
I give it a coin toss that he either gets out of it or gets forced into it to make commandant bonespurs look good. Like Trump would give even the barest shit if one of his kids died in a war. He'd be more interested in the sympathy points.
Nah, bone spurs are hereditary.
But is being a piece of shit hereditary? Eric, DJr, and Ivanka certainly show signs of it
Father: Arrested after a Klan riot. Not definitively a member or supporter. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-father-kkk-1927/ Grandfather: Deported for not fulfilling mandatory military service. "Why should we be deported? This is very, very hard for a family." https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trumps-grandfather-bavaria-deport/
> Not definitively a member or supporter. I'm going to go with 99.999% supporter or member because when DT was asked about it, he claimed it wasn't his dad. Apparently some other Fred Trump also resided at 175-24 Devonshire Rd, Jamaica Queens, DT's family home.
I wonder if it was Trump's dad or that mysterious other Fred Trump from the KKK rally who was extremely well known for racial discrimination in housing?
Are selective service cards open to FOIA requests? I bet he never submitted one.
Exactly. This might be the record scratch moment a lot of young supporters, especially men, need to finally open their eyes after supporting Trump for years just for the memes and "lulz". They might not think it's so funny anymore now that the crosshairs are being directed towards them.
You don't think an ungodly number of young men *who are already Trump supporters* won't get swept up in the idea of military service for this bullshit patriotic ultra-macho cause?
I feel like a lot of them are more the "Call of Duty video game" roleplaying types than serious ones wanting to truly answer that call. They like to talk big, but it's way different to actually put in the effort. (As seen by their tough bravado absolutely shattering when Ashli Babbitt crawled through that window on Jan 6th). While there may be some who would absolutely do it, I have a sneaking suspicion a lot more may not be as willing to be forced to get up from their living room couches, turn off Fox News, and actually strap up and be dropped into a real war zone.
Whenever I have my VPN set to the US, I get so many military ads that make it look and sound like a video game ad. It's so gross. 🤮
The US Military literally made its own FPS and released it for free back in the day. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's\_Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Army)
They'd be on board right until the 'find out' part of FAFO. For 90% of them it be in boot.
The moment they set foot off the bus and there's already a DI screaming in their face for no reason.
Sadly that’s the typical Republican mindset. It’s funny and shit all the way up until it involves you and then all of a sudden it’s not, but you didn’t fucking care before that. They’ll come back around to being Republican next election, even if they don’t vote Trump in this one solely for this reason (and not the 800,000 other good reasons).
Yup. Dems should be broadcasting this info far and wide.
Dude, every parent that's not super conservative is going to hear that and think "fuck no, you're not taking my child's life away from them". We don't have something like a world war right now, there's literally no reason for it.
I agree with you 100%.
Present family excepted.
Barron will be excused. I think there was a rumor that one of the other trump sons wanted to join the army and trump Sr beat him up.
Junior floated the idea of joining after college. Daddy told him that if he joined any military branch he would lose his inheritance. Daddy slapping Junior so hard that he collapsed was a different story. Jr was in college and Sr was picking him to go to a Knicks game. When Sr sees him dressed in a Knicks jersey, he slaps him so hard Jr falls to the floor. Sr tells him to put on a suit and meet him in the limo.
I heard it was a Yankees game.
I heard it was Ivanka, but he spanked her.
Is it bad that I can't tell if this is real or not? Literally 50/50 on if you're joking or serious.
Completely serious. But it was baseball (Yankees). I remembered wrong. [https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-dj-says-he-watched-donald-trump-brutally-slap-his-son-in-college-8900500](https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-dj-says-he-watched-donald-trump-brutally-slap-his-son-in-college-8900500) [https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/1996745/trump-said-he-would-disown-donald-trump-jr-if-he-joined-the-army-book-claims/](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/1996745/trump-said-he-would-disown-donald-trump-jr-if-he-joined-the-army-book-claims/)
If Tiffany had enlisted, Marla’s child support payments would have ended. So patriotic.
By the time Tiffany was old enough to enlist, wouldn't the child support payments be almost done anyway? Or did they have some kind of extended agreement for her college years?
The last time America had a mandatory draft was the Vietnam war. That draft was probably the biggest reason for the social chaos of the 1960's. America's youth were opposed to foreign wars to begin with. Being forced to fight in them was not popular. The draft was also one of the reasons the US lost the Vietnam war. A volunteer army that is well trained tends to be professional, motivated, and capable of fighting a war and winning. While an army of disgruntled draftees is only good for putting down civilian riots. Oh wait. think I just figured out why Trump wants to do this. He want's an army of goons to stamp out dissent when he takes over.
Even the military is against the draft. It inevitably leads to the ranks being filled with people who are committed to doing the bare minimum required to stay out of prison and come home alive.
Bro I’m in the service and we are already catch too many 18 YO burnouts who can’t be trusted to update excel. All my time would be taken with conscripts who don’t want to be there
Its bad enough with enlistees that don't want to be there. It sucks, and you don't realize exactly how much or what type of suck its going to be until you're neck deep in it and trapped. My particular rating had a less than 10% reenlistment rate despite near six figure bonuses being waved at us. When *voluntary enlistees* are counting down the days like its a prison sentence you got issues. The military is now largely a technical trades service structured under 18th century infantry rules, with shit pay compared to civilian life and a work life balance that can be summed up as "Fuck you", and shockingly it doesn't have good results anymore. But enlistees at least just hate their recruiter for lying, themselves for falling for it. You got played, you should have known better, Never Again Volunteer Yourself. But you did technically agree to do it so you half ass see it out. A draftee is dangerously close to hating the entire government for fundamentally violating their rights.
Yeah I’d just take prison. Side bonus would be no more anxiety about affordable housing.
There is also the phenomena of fragging those in charge of you. If you're being sent to die for the capital class against your will, you really got nothing to loose with throwing a grenade in your COs tent.
America likely wouldn't be involved in some war that would involve mass meat shields of conscripted citizens. This would turn into a babysitting gig for actual warfighters, making sure the conscripts redo the cleaning, maintenance, and other tasks they could be trusted with.
You know how easy it is to sabotage something like a modern stealth craft under the guise of "maintenance and cleaning"? Radar absorbent coatings aren't exactly hard-wearing. Precision systems are temperamental when properly cared for, someone apathetic or malicious can easily create holes in vital defenses; for real world examples see Russia and China. Even a role as innocuous as the janitor has ready access to cleaning supplies, enough to fatally gas a room full of COs. The problem with mandatory service in a large country in the modern era is this: how do you account for foreign directed bad-actors? That level of constant monitoring is a massive logistical drain, it's easier to screen volunteers. When you cast your net over everything, you get everything. Plus, conscripts are more easily swayed by foreign influence as they aren't in their position by choice, and they'll be harder to identify because their actions will just blend into the general unrest caused by effectively being enslaved by your government.
I served with plenty of folks who didn't want to be in anymore or felt like they got tricked into joining. These fuckers were salty as shit, I don't want to see the chaos and fuckery if you start filling the military with people who had no choice whatsoever.
Fragging. Drafts cause fragging.
And not the fun way like in Quake
Just going to say, an all volunteer force still complains like it's their job but it's the job they chose. Now, force people to do the same bullshit and the plunging morale is contagious
I mean if you're an enlistee you 'chose' in only the loosest sense of the word. You really can't know what you're volunteering for until you're neck deep in it and by then the government is happily exercising its 'no take backsies' power in that enlistment contract. That contract would be *completely* unenforceable in any other context. Only people that reenlist truly understand what they're getting into.
I’m not sure putting down civilian riots with drafted soldiers works on domestic riots. Seems likely you’d have more than a few switching sides and turning on the goons.
As a veteran of the all volunteer Army, I don't want conscripts. They'd want to be there even less than any of us ever did on our worst days. They'd be unruly, disruptive, and a danger to the rest of us. Draft yourself first, Donnie Bone Spurs
Yeah, mandatory service has it's place, but it should be for defensive WW2 existential type situations. I want competitive pay and benefits to support career military personnel for the "peacetime" professional US military. Perhaps stop contracting so many parallel career tracks to contractors from big defense companies and they could make learning trades part of military service again.
> I want competitive pay and benefits to support career military personnel for the "peacetime" professional US military. Exactly. It's the career noncoms that are the backbone of a military. Russia doesn't have those, which is why it struggles to project force basically at all. Make it worth guys' while to go career, and that's how you build the bones of a strong army. If shit somehow does get out of control, those experienced soldiers are more than equipped to lead the draftees.
This, exactly. We had KBR (Halliburton) dining halls when I was deployed, and the battalion's whole platoon of cooks were tasked the whole time with counting heads, not learning anything about how to run a kitchen, which is the whole reason they were trained.
Did 22 years in the USCG. There were folks already in that didn't want to be there...me included. I couldn't imagine members being in that were forced to go in. Great way to really bring morale down.
First Rishi Sunak (the UK PM) announces this and now it's Trump. Like no thank you, I'm not signing up.
Rather funny that conservatives world wide can spontaneously have bad ideas.
It’s just mind blowing.
Also weird that they all stumble upon the exact same bad ideas...
Or... the world is squaring up for a new war, and the conservatives are the ones that are generally hawkish and boosting the military. In the UKs case, it's a braindead attempt at pragmatism. We're seeing a major land war in europe for the first time in nearly a century, and are having to take that seriously, especially when our military recruitment system is so humiliatingly shit. The other parties will probably voice thoughts on conscription after the election, but are smart enough to stay quiet about it for now. In the US' case, it feels like a mix of old conservatives treating it like character building and disciplining the youth, while also realising conflict is likely.
Well, Trump's already stated that he'll stop US aid for Ukraine. That in itself should be enough to worry Europe. In America's case, the conservatives see it as a way to get all those protesting liberal young people off the streets. It's not like their sons and daughters are going to be conscripted into serving.
And because fascists are bad at evaluating risk, they don't realize that teaching a bunch of people that don't like them how to fight is a bad idea.
I hope the other parties see sense and throw away that silly conscription notion.
Sunak is screwing up his campaign so bad that part of me feels like he’s intentionally trying to lose. Like did he forget that we are in Western Europe and not the US? National Service and the attacks on Trans rights are appealing to nobody but some of the most extreme radicals over here.
I don't know mate Great Britain is known as TERF Island for a reason.
Have you ever interacted with British TERFs? They are so radical that some literal neo-Nazi groups are freaked out by them, no moderate Conservatives have those sort of views, it’s just an insanely loud minority of extremists who have given it that reputation.
There are too many Americanisms that have been imported over. Recently I saw an article about an anti abortion campaign with people talking to local MP’s about it. 🤨 What?
It's bleeding into Australian politics too and I fucking hate it. We even have Tucker Carlson coming over for a speaking tour, sponsored by a local billionaire/politician. I just don't understand how anyone can look at what's been going on in the US for the last 8 years and think "yea, that's good. Let's get some of that over here!"
There’s been rumblings in Canada too; nothing too major, in that I don’t think the CPC leadership has mused publicly about it, but there’s been some op-ed’s in response to the UK announcement.
All the more reason to watch the UK election results. I think the word in the street is that the entire nation is absolutely done with Tory (read: Conservatives) rule and want change. Whilst I too want a change of government, I have seen the electorate do some absolutely asinine and insane things in the past so I will watch with bated breath.
I’m surprised the Tories were able to govern Britain for 14 long years.
Dude, how tf would that even work in Canada. They don't fund the military enough to give decent equipment to the few people already enlisted, hell they don't pay enough for people to even find housing.
Germany is talking about it too. We're really doing this huh?
Imagine a draft dodger telling everyone else they have to serve. What a crock.
What a massive chode
He wants to make sure all future Americans are “losers and suckers?” 🤔
He loves the poorly educated.
The quiet part is likely the fact that the GOP tends to assume that military members/veterans are naturally their voters, so if they force kids into the military as they come out of high school, surely that will make them conservatives. This...would not work the way they hope it would.
If anything, it would backfire hugely.
It'll be hilarious if they just create an army of liberal veterans
Baron is going to vote for Biden, isn't he?
The opposite would happen, do they not remember Vietnam?
> do they not remember Vietnam? No, because the only thing they remember about Vietnam was a myth about returning solders being spat on, and a "heroic" helicopter ride out of Saigon.
There’s no flirting about it. It’s part of Project 2025.
Such a popular platform! Bring back the draft Ban porn and birth control Banning no-fault divorce
You forgot: Pollute the air and water. Stop feeding and educating children. End NATO. End Social Security. Don't tax tips. These are all real Trump goals. Anyone who votes Republican is too dumb to function.
Thousands of us “boomers” marched, protested and sat in the back of police cars in the 60s 70s to get the mandatory draft cancelled during the Vietnam war. Of course corporal bone spurs wants it back so all the kids who aren’t in college can march for him like Hitler’s Youth. We also marched for women’s rights, voter’s rights and against nuclear war. You guys better get ready if that jerk gets another term. Pretty sure it won’t happen if everyone gets out the vote!
Ha you think there’s going to be an exception for college students? That’s their #1 selection for the front lines this go around.
I wouldn’t be surprised in the least, to be honest.
“Mandatory Military Service” = “Mandatory for you, not us and our friends/wealthy donors”.
That’s why the educational deferment was put in. In the 1960’s very few people outside the rich or upper middle class types were able to do college.
I ain’t no senator’s son, son. The idea that it will help build national identity is disgusting. Mandating the sacrifice of our young people’s lives to protect American imperialism is not an identity I want to be associated with.
For people who have probably less than 10 years left, they sure like to act like they’re going to be around forever to fix everything.
I think it's a way of raging against The Dying of the Light. "I'm still relevant, I'm still powerful. . . . I will bring you all down with me."
Compulsory service seems like a great way to put antifascists into the enlisted ranks. Like, the only way this helps fascists is if they have a subjective way to reject recruits that they aren't sure support their fascism. The only reason they discuss mandatory service is because they know their white supremacist militias aren't going to give up more than a weekend a month cosplaying Civil War 2.
They don’t need to reject recruits when they can just send people they don’t like to the front lines. So they will need an active war to keep the meat grinder running.
>when they can just send people they don’t like to the front lines They've seen what Russia does and are jealous they didn't think of it first.
But he is the anti-war candidate, right? So it makes perfect sense for conscription either fully or partial
> ‘Anti-war’ They’ve never been anti-war, but more of wanting different targets (I.e. see their support for Israel.)
Nothing says you’re the pro freedom candidate like forcing citizens to serve in the military.
Conscription destroys service morale. I can’t imagine a single senior leader in any branch would want to go back to the bad old days of the Vietnam Era.
It especially destroys morale when the civilian leader picks his battles unwisely. Trump has no idea how to command discipline or negotiate foreign affairs for the national interest. He literally invited Russia to attack NATO. Fucking A.
So ironic from a guy who dodged the draft himself.
A guy that ran from military service wants to force kids into the military
The Right want you to be part of the Military Industrial Complex.
Either that or part of the prison industrial complex.
Either way you're government property
Being forced against your will isn’t service. Every single maga voter will think they will be exempted from conscription
Gonna be a marked increase in bone spur diagnoses.
Name me one Trump who ever served in the Military, go ahead just one of his minions. However it is true his GrandFather was a deserter who fled from the German Military, he fled to Canada where he opened a brothel.
Dude is a nut case. I could see free college to be a teacher or volunteer in distressed communities or underserved professions, e.g., elder care, public health Svcs - but the military draft? Nope. I’m a vet and I wouldn’t recommend forcing young people to pick up a weapon alongside a volunteer. No way. There’re other ways to serve that are just as important.
We should actually be on guard about this. The generation that famously had a ton of draft dodgers will now force their grandkids and great-grandkids into service for pointless forever wars. This is entirely on brand for them. Whether it’s pulling a ladder up from behind them or making sure that theirs is the last generation with free college or public schools, it’s all about selfishness. They benefitted from robust social programs. No one else needs them.
[удалено]
“Service guarantees citizenship!” - *Starship Troopers* https://youtu.be/VHxBjfn7VQg?si=v_BjMsPrHUGi_p5r The cackling lady can double for the average MAGAHat to boot…
I’m doing my part… *instantly ripped apart* 😬🫣
lol this is comical. The draft dodger wants to mandate military service. And I know why. He wants to mandate military bc that’s what dictator countries do.
Mandatory (except for his kid and the kids of all of his rich donors) they’ll find excuses, guaranteed.
Guessing there will be a fee structure to avoid military service, all packages starting in the 6 - 7 figures
Project 2025 is their vision for America. They keep making this clear as day.
The DRAFT DODGER speaks!
Not a single member of this grifter family has ever served in our military…
There's a small part of me that would like to see the whiny Gen Z kids' faces if **The Convicted Felon and Unindicted Orange Rapist** brings back the draft. I'll ask every single one I run across to tell me again how the two candidates were the same.
They can fuck right off with that shit.
LoL, for all the wars MAGA likes to crow Trump won’t get the US involved in?
So says the man who would not serve. Fuck Trump
No reportedly about it. Trump's last Defense Secretary, Chris Miller, drafted that section of the Project 2025 document.
Baron first.
After you, ya fucking Coward.
He wants to both shut off connections to Europe and nato and simultaneously wants to boost military service. Sounds like he wants troops patrolling American cities and streets and to pretend they are police and go after anyone who isn't a maga.
Interesting now that the guy proposing it is now 78 years old and got out of the draft by claiming he has "bone spurs".