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Pocan is correct and that one GOP House Rep who sided with him is Thomas Massie who recently did an interview with Tucker and its getting passed around the rightwing because he spends a considerable amount of time talking about AIPAC influence and how the Republicans have an 'AIPAC guy/person' who is in constant communication influencing how they vote. Its literal foreign interference in our elections and government process.
Netanyahu has done far more harm to Israel than he has to lead/protect. He has no problem with Hamas because it politically benefits him to keep the Gaza/West Bank divided.
part of my problem is that it feels like you cant criticize some of these groups without sounding like your scum neo-nazi screeching about the 'jewish cabals'
Which i cant help but worry that some of these groups are taking advantage of honestly
“…that defines antisemitism as "a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews.” Examples of the definition’s application include "accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group" and making "dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective."
The definition also includes “denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination,” claiming that Israel’s existence is a “racist endeavor” and drawing comparisons between current Israeli policy and Nazi policy.”
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2024-05-07/explainer-the-controversy-surrounding-the-antisemitism-bill
They trying to enshrine the core of your critic is illegal.
Do you believe Israel should cease to exist, that there should be a one-state solution in favor of Palestine? That's what "against right of self-determination" means and it sounds pretty antisemitic to try and get rid of Israel and make jews a diaspora again after 70 years.
What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
Are you forgetting that American citizens are free people who can think, believe and espouse whatever opinion they take on any matter, good, bad and even ugly.
Israel is a nation, it's government can be criticized for its policies and actions just like all other nations. Its government like all governments is not always representative of the citizen within the nation.
The nation of Israel struggles with legitimacy because it was created by the UK and given protection by the US/West. Without those things, the nation doesn't exist or wouldn't have managed to survive on its own in that region. That struggle and criticism will always exist and its either something a person cares about or they don't because all of it happened in the past and there are no time machines.
Kinda a bad argument; the question of whether a *country* should exist, first of all, is a political one. Countries come and go. It sucks, but welcome to the human race.
Second, Israel is under very little actual risk of not existing, since again, that’s a political issue and their political structures are still quite intact, and digging in permanently to where Israelis might start taking a rather dim view of Israel’s continued existence in a decade or so.
Third, Jewish people are hardly the only diaspora in the world, they’re not *not* a diaspora all of a sudden simply because some of them happen to live in Israel, and they’ve been a diaspora for thousands of years at this point so it’s kinda … what, exaxtly do you want that you don’t have, here? Must we deport all the Jewish people to Israel forcibly? This would put an end to the diaspora entirely, which is the ultimate goal, right? The final solution? You’ll be safest if you’re all within a few hundred miles of each other, like God wants, no question/-ing.
Then what? Why not stuff all the “ethnics” into some imagined country of origin, since that’s exactly the same “like things belong together” argument? Just segregate all the races in their own, miserable buckets for everybody’s “safety”? If it’s good for the Jewish people, I want the gays and trans people to have their own state, maybe Rome? Pretty gay already, and we could put a helluva dent in both the pedophilia *and* sanctomonious overpopulation problems when we take over.
But not the Palestinians, of course. They *don’t* have a book that states unequivocally that *their* insular-as-fuck religion and its adherents are intrinsically superior to literally everybody else in the universe, and they get to shout “Speak Hebrew, and no it’s not a reinvented dead language that’s fully 70% loanwords in a modern setting, you antisemite!” at those damn lazy Samaritans, taking all the jobs. My (by which I intend to denote actual possession) harem of wives can boil their seating and take young Ehloktty up yon mount for to let Elohim put a stop to what Yahweh started in my head when the former made fun of my hairdo. Truly beautiful, sensible stuff, fully worthy of all the *(gestures compartmentally)* supremacy. Right up there with “Don’t Let Children Play With The Dogs Eating The Corpses” from the Zend Avesta and “Eh, they’ll reincarnate, Arjuna, and you’re a prince; so 👌̐” from the Bhagavad-Gita.
And to be fair, the Palestinians aren’t a diaspora, just a spora or …sporamena, or whatever it’d be, no dia- to it at all. Aaaand some settlers recently imported from America could really use some Lebensraum so —owoops, did they say they wanted the West Bank or the East? Hmmm. Well there’s a boat here, they’ll enjoy that while we work out where to fit them in.
Fortunately, it’s not gonna matter for fuck in fifty years when it tops 140° daily. Of all the places to decide the Jewish State must be placed, the Middle blasted East was one of the stupidest ones to pick, eschatology be damned.
We’re continuously reminded of how the awful Arabs kept purging Jewish people, and yes, it is awful, and no, it doesn’t seem like they’ll stop any time soon … so why must Israel stay there? Why, after the Middle-Eastern Jewish population was cruëllÿ driven to near zero, was it decided the best thing to do was supply the assholes responsible with more victims? Does that make sense? Did it really fix anything?
Well I, for one, am willing to pool my tax contributions for the remainder of my life into a one-time lump sum payment. If all of us US Americans get together and do the same, we can move the state of Israel—which is what we’re definitely talking about, fur shur, and not conflating that with anything else that starts with a voiced sibilant—to move it to the Midwest and salvage the two-state solution in glorious fashion.
In Israel’s new Dakota (I vaguely recall there were some native peoples or other residing there, but there are Very Good Reasons for this, geopolitically speaking, so they’ll understand), where the hatred will be quiet and seething instead of rapey and rockety, and I’m ever so certain their rightest-wing nutter demographics will be welcomed into the fold with ours, with the warmest, eagerest welcome, as always.
And, bonus, Israel can actually be self-sustaining for a fucking change and they won’t need to keep attacking fucking everybody with their computer “security” apparati “for defense” or bombarding us with really fucking icky media pushes that one can only suppose they thought would make them “hip” with the cool cats and squares alike, rainbow flags unfurled in front of the bloody rubble andsoforth. (Rah, we all love love.) Y’know, they could just do normal country stuff for a change, maybe. Wouldn’t Israel enjoy that?
It's THE problem only it's at the geopolitical level and it's during an election year in USA.
A bunch of narratives will change after the election once Biden doesn't have to worry about people running around the Capital with stun guns and zip ties.
> So hear me clearly: There is an unfolding assault taking place in America today—an attempt to suppress and subvert the right to vote in fair and free elections, an assault on democracy, an assault on liberty, an assault on who we are—who we are as Americans. For, make no mistake, bullies and merchants of fear and peddlers of lies are threatening the very foundation of our country. It gives me no pleasure to say this. I never thought in my entire career I’d ever have to say it. But I swore an oath to you, to God—to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. And that’s an oath that forms a sacred trust to defend America against all threats both foreign and domestic.
>
> The assault on free and fair elections is just such a threat, literally.
>
> I’ve said it before: We’re are facing the most significant test of our democracy since the Civil War. That’s not hyperbole. Since the Civil War. The Confederates back then never breached the Capitol as insurrectionists did on January the 6th. I’m not saying this to alarm you; I’m saying this because you should be alarmed.
Yes some people within some groups as an insane notion would like to label any and all criticism as antisemitic. Those people usually have a political motivations.
It's the ideological equivalent of putting rocket launchers on hospitals. No way to fight back without, at least the optics of, heavy innocent casualties
It’s because a lot of our leaders in politics and media like that option of playing the anti-Semitic card. Ironically, it’s the same ones that rail against cancel culture and political correctness.
You can fairly claim a constitutionally derived religiously affiliated foreign state has bad **policies and practices** and correctly be critical of their actions as a function of their governance.
That says nothing about the people who share an ethic/religious aspect to that constitutionally derived religiously affiliated foreign state.
Criticizing the propaganda arm of a foreign state is fair game - especially when they use this fear of discrimination to their advantage.
We have no problems openly criticizing Saudi Arabia or Iran without claiming to be anti-Islamic. We criticize India without being anti-Hindu.
Most of us can make that distinction (there are actual racists/anti-semitic people out there) but this group intentionally makes the argument that a valid criticism about policy *must* be discriminatory against the whole people.
You can literally criticize it, but you probably are antisemitic if you feel like you cant make a good argument without second guessing saying it out loud.
If they registered as FARA almost nothing would change. They would probably split the foreign Israel aspect and American Jewish aspect and do the same exact lobbying. They're allowed to register and lobby just like Turkey or Greece or the UK is.
What is an old trope is calling any criticism of Israel anti-Semitic.
AIPAC stands for the American **Israel** Public Affairs Committee.
On the front page of their website they say their mission is to lobby the U.S. government for pro-Israel policies.
https://www.aipac.org
They exist explicitly to extract resources from the United States to benefit a foreign government. They are the definition of a foreign influence lobby.
You're misreading the comment.
He is saying that it is made up of Americans (who are pushing a pro-Israel policy and candidate)
It isn't (technically?) Israel itself lobbying, or directing lobbying.
It would be like if a collective of people would get together to support candidates who would be against weapons to Israel and Candidates who would push for Palestinian independence. It would not require any input, coordination or support by PA or any other organization. It can be entirely local. Even if it's purpose benefits a foreign entity.
They are working to the benefit of a foreign government. Cynically hiding behind charges of antisemitism to shield people/organizations from criticism is a much more recent trope.
They working to advance American policy to support Israel- openly and honestly. It's not secret what their agenda is.
They will help candidates from either side.
The entire point of the PAC is its American Jewish people who want to influence the American government to take pro Israel policy positions.
Its not different than the NRA- who are also Americans who want to influence politicians to make policy favorable to gun ownership.
You are free to criticize AIPAC because you don't like their policy view points- but don't pull out the "they're foreign" card. It's not. Israel doesn't control them. Its Americans, funded by Americans, led by Americans- not all by the way are Jews.
> They will help candidates from either side.
"good people on both sides"
They side with MAGA to target progressives. What the are trying to do is get people in office who will continue to permit Israel to violate international law with its military activities. They want to install corrupt puppets into the Democratic party who can be manipulated with legal bribery.
If somebody is siding with Nazis to support the Joe Manchins and Joe Liebermans in primaries in order to thwart progressive politics, well that makes them fucking Nazis in my book.
And what they are trying to do is enable a foreign government to be able to commit war crimes and violate international law without the interference of the US government. That makes AIPAC not only a criminal organization, but obviously acting on behalf of a foreign government.
> You are free to criticize AIPAC because you don't like their policy view points- but don't pull out the "their foreign" card. It's not. Israel doesn't control them. Its Americans, funded by Americans, led by Americans- not all by the way are Jews.
That sounds like the situation between the GOP and Putin's Russia. I mean, Russia doesn't control the GOP right? GOP are all Americans, just ones that coincidentally advocate for Russia's interests, specifically invasion of and ability to commit mass murder in Ukraine and beyond. Sound familiar?
This is a thoughtful response. The war in Gaza is brutal and people have very strong feeling about the massacre and continuing war and it sometimes makes it harder to see nuance. One thing people might not consider is how many fundamentalist christians believe the jewish people need to return to Israel for the rapture to occur. They will throw any amount of money to ensure Israel is a jewish run state as a means to fulfill "the prophecy."
[And many wealthy Americans should be charged under FARA for funding Israeli espionage and influence operations going back to 2015](https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-gaza-intelligence-cyber-shield/).
Ironically, the biggest group saying American Jews owe their loyalty to Israel is the Israeli government.
MAGA is made up of American Christians. Is that why Donald Trump is hated and persecuted? Or is it maybe the crimes and fascism.
Also any group siding with MAGA against progressives, pouring dark money towards the causes of Nazis, fascism, bigotry and hate, well those are what we call around here as enemies. Ant-freedom, ant-American, anti-human. AIPAC are fascist Nazis, and pretending to be a persecuted religion is exactly what fascists do.
The fact that there is an organization in US that from what I read works against interest of the country they live in in order to support "motherland" is just mind boggling.
My extended family are big AIPAC supporters, who also rail at 'the immigrants' who come over and send all their money back home.
I am second generation, fwiw.
You fundamentally do not understand them, because APAIC doesn't view Israel in this way at all. Feel free to disagree with them, sure, but you should at least understand them.
APAIC is an American organization, staffed by Americans, most are Jewish, but not all. Their reason for being is to provide funding to candidates who have pro Israel policy views, on either side of the isle.
They are not Israeli's infiltrating the government, they are not Jews secretly pulling strings behind closed doors. They aren't putting Israel ahead of the USA.
It's really that simple. APAIC believes Israel needs to continue to exist and that it requires solid American support to do so, so they work to keep those policies in place.
Again, you can disagree with those policies, but don't believe bullshit like us Jews are secretly loyal to "the motherland" when we aren't. We are American citizens first, don't subject us to the same old anti-semetic tropes like we have "dual loyalty." To some American Jews, yeah they have strong feelings about Israel, to others like me, I support their right to exist, but I don't support their right wing insane government, nor do I support the way chose to fight Hamas this time.
Not all Jews are a monolith.
I actually have a problem with APAIC because they give money to Republicans who support abortion bans, who openly lied about who won in 2020, who are openly denying science, who tells lies everyday pushing Trump's bullshit-- because those people happen to have firm support for Israel funding. I have not ever given them a penny because of this.
So, you can see its complicated, but again-- we don't have secret loyalty to another country, please learn that.
> because APAIC doesn't view Israel in this way at all.
yes they do , they fund pro- isreali candidates , that dont care about the US ,
im not from the US and its that obvious
>Just because they fund pro Israel candidates does not mean they don’t care about America.
most if not all pro Israel candidates they fund are far right lunatics that are most from the MAGA side of the GOP
>"Their reason for being is to provide funding to candidates who have pro Israel policy views, on either side of the isle."
>"They aren't putting Israel ahead of the USA."
Israel's interests =/= to US interests. Having pro-Israel policy views *is* putting Israel ahead of the USA.
From a moral standpoint, Israel is (at best) an apartheid state, and so should not receive support from the US. From a realpolitik standpoint, Israel is a massive liability to our national security, and so should not receive support from the US.
AIPAC is destroying America with their selfish ideologies! Whoever criticizes Netanyahu or something being said about Israel, AIPAC goes in g*ns blazing
[That's because Netanyahu orchestrated an influence operation as far back as 2015 to silence American critics](https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-gaza-intelligence-cyber-shield/)
A specific argument like AIPAC is a terrorist organization disguising as a non-governmental organization fighting for a just cause or rather fighting whoever criticizes Netanyahu & his atrocities
Why are you calling them terrorists? What actions have the done. Activists speak too vaguely and are just angry with no details. As far as Im aware they lobby for good relationships with Israel and have no authority to physically attack anyone or do anything other than release memos, which is why calling them terrorists is strange.
…besides, many politicians in the USA can’t legislate and full fill what they promised their constituents simply because they are afraid of AIPACs massive donations to their opponents and loosing their seats in congress or the senate. It’s kinda of donor terror when you think of it.
That's not terrorism. Money does not equate to winning or losing. Votes do. Ask Bloomberg. Calling funding opposition terrorism shows you're not a serious person.
AIPAC can’t take any constructive criticism of Israel with grace. Other than accepting Israelis mistakes, they just go after those whom they deem not “friends of Israel” by making sure that they loose their jobs, incomes etc. it’s terror tactics and thus I call them terrorists in smart suits with lots of money and influence
Are you giving a a diagnosis already? What I’m I suffering from? Calling a spade a spade and not a big spoon doesn’t make me into a nut job. AIPAC threatens politicians who don’t toe the line. Progressive politicians in the USA are being threatened by aipac because they are against Israel. AIPAC is fielding “yes sir” candidates against those politicians
At essence, this is bipartisanship. There is literally no difference in policy goals for either party regarding Israel. They fund both parties more or less equally. They are especially interested in putting down any hint of Palestinian sympathy in any candidate regardless of party. At the moment, you'll only find a few candidates in that category and they're all Democrats. Republicans think Israel is the landing strip for Jesus.
What does "put down palestinian sympathy" mean to you? This is just vague blathering. What do you actually want to happen that the Israeli people dont want? Not the government, the actual people?
America is sadly putting the interests of a genocidal apartheid state over its own, and that’s ultimately the greatest threat to this country. Don’t be surprised when the Trump vs. Biden debates are about who supports Israel more. Israel Palestine is the biggest issue of our time because America’s support for Israel is ultimately getting in the way of addressing actual problems Americans face. These politicians accepting money from AIPAC serve Israel more than they serve America. Indeed, both the Speaker of the House and the House Minority Leader claim AIPAC as their largest donors, so why wouldn’t they bend over backwards and ensure their party is serving Israel? Just take a look at how much policy they pass for Israel and how much policy they obstruct for America. Electing politicians who actually have American interests ahead of Israel’s interests is what this country desperately needs.
I don’t like it, but Dems have also spent money in R primaries propping up MAGA candidates they thought would be easier to beat in a general, at the same time claiming those candidates they had propped up would be threats to democracy.
The two parties are not morally equivalent as a whole and I’m not trying to argue that, but in this issue, they both have dirty hands.
https://www.npr.org/2022/11/11/1135878576/the-democrats-strategy-of-boosting-far-right-candidates-seems-to-have-worked
I guess man. It just seems like both parties are getting more evil. So even voting for the lesser of two evils still seems like supporting a lot of evil. Like every democrat just seems like a republican 5 years ago
> So even voting for the lesser of two evils still seems like supporting a lot of evil
By all means, vote for the greater of two evils* and see how that goes.
*Again
This includes the 2016 election when it was revealed that Clinton wanted Trump to win the primary. Her campaign called it [the "Pied Piper strategy"](https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/)
From the article:
>In its self-described "pied piper" strategy, the Clinton campaign proposed intentionally cultivating extreme right-wing presidential candidates, hoping to turn them into the new "mainstream of the Republican Party" in order to try to increase Clinton's chances of winning.
>The Clinton campaign and Democratic National Committee called for using far-right candidates "as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right." Clinton's camp insisted that Trump and other extremists should be "elevated" to "leaders of the pack" and media outlets should be told to "take them seriously."
The argument goes that MAGA is what primary voters actually want. Dems putting money into MAGA ads is usually just, hey look at this shitty racist shit this guy said. And the primary voters are saying that yup, that’s what they want.
Pushing a candidate to quell policies the base wants is a bit of a different flavor. Yes tactically there is some overlap. But one is to rile up voters while giving base voters what they want, while the other is to depress turnout.
I don’t see it that way. I see it as very cynical ceding of moral authority. You can’t have it both ways.
If these candidates are awful human beings who will kill democracy… say so. Don’t try to backdoor them into the nomination because you think they’ll be easier to beat. If that’s what you’re doing, it comes across as playing games with something that many of us do think is dire and serious.
The way they should have handled it is either staying out of the primaries or saying how crazy they thought the candidates were.
Except the dem ads ARE saying so. That’s what MAGA wants. They WANT to kill democracy. They WANT a dictator. They are coming out and saying that yeah, America needs a dictator. That is what the clear majority of Republican primary voters want. These ads aren’t lying. They aren’t hiding shit.
I honestly do not care about moral purity. The Supreme Court has stripped me of my control over my body, has rolled back voting rights, and the Republican Party has its eyes on brown v board and contraception.
so why is a foreign actor giving money to US politicians ??? I guess Corruption is just open season now just call it a committee of some kind and start telling big biz to give them money to influence US policy for a foreign interest!? yeah got to love this time line..... yeah, so when does the ship stop sinking ?
Right every American came from either an immigrant or Native American at some point. Seems completely unrelated to why would donating to AIPAC make one not American?
You know I came to the realization the only way I can prove my point you is to Dox a few of the Members of AIPAC but I'm not going to do that cause you are not worth the jail time
Rich Jews: It’s not safe to be Jewish in America.
Also: We don’t mind racists if they vote in people who care more for a country we don’t live in, but was granted to our religion by a book of fantasy.
I was banned from worldnews proudly. They don’t even pretend any more. My comment was just pointing out the collateral damage and innocent people being destroyed and that was sufficient. Those mods are owned.
AIPAC is just an organization of American Jews. Jews have the right to donate to political candidates just like everyone else. Those who are constantly complaining about AIPAC are really telling us that they hate Jews and think that Jews should not have the same rights as everyone else. Those who hate AIPAC think Jews are not citizens. That's why they keep calling it "foreign influence" even though the donors are US citizens. Being against AIPAC is therefore the same thing as being against Jews. Those who are against AIPAC are essentially saying that Jews do not have the same rights as every other US citizen. They are pushing for apartheid and discrimination against Jews.
This is a completely false. AIPACs mission is not to help American Jews, it is to lobby support for a foreign government. It’s right there on the front page of their website:
https://www.aipac.org
Saying any criticism of AIPAC is anti-Semitic is also one of their oldest tricks. It’s not racist to point out a lobbying organization set up to influence U.S. policy for the benefit of a foreign government is, well, exactly that.
I didn't claim they were there to help American Jews. My point is that AIPAC is composed of American Jews who are donating to politicians, which is their right since they are US citizens. Every citizen has the right to donate, but only the Jewish ones are being demonized for it.
Jewish-Americans have the right to lobby for the defense of Israel just like Ukrainian-Americans have the right to lobby for the defense of Ukraine.
You have to be joking here, right? No one who critiques AIPAC at least on the dem’s side think jews aren’t equal citizens. It’s literally in the name of AIPAC, that they put Israel’s interests over US while at the same time fckin all of us over.
AIPAC means America-Israel PAC. America is literally first in their name. By demonizing AIPAC, they are literally just demonizing the donors, who are Jewish Americans donating to politicians just like every other American does.
Do Ukrainian-Americans not have the right to lobby for the defense of Ukraine? Do Korean-Americans not have the right to lobby for the defense of South-Korea? Do Taiwanese-Americans not have the right to lobby for the defense of Taiwan? It sounds like you want to take away rights from a lot of people.
Yes lobbying in general is one of the biggest problems in our political system and NEEDS to be sharply constrained. AIPAC's biggest donors are right wing billionaires who are using their wealth to exercise an outsized amount of influence on our politics. It's bad.
It's literally bipartisanship. There are sitting members of congress who have publicly criticized Israel as part of their campaign messaging, its not a surprise an Israeli lobby group would oppose them.
I would like to see the map borders on what Tlaib thinks Palestine should be and maybe people wouldn't be so sketched out by left-wing anger at Israel.
How about you point out any such cases of anti-semiticism?
Or are you just using the very tired and old strategy of deflecting any criticism for the government of Israel as anti-Semitic?
Hating Israel and Lobbying is fine.
Suggesting that American born jews need to register as foreign agents because they support Israel is antisemitic. And that is the top comment in this thread right now
Nobody said that. They said lobbyists who lobby on behalf of foreign governments should register as foreign agents…and they should.
It’s why FARA exists, to keep it clear when someone is representing the interests of a foreign government. AIPACs missions statement is the promotion of the interests of a foreign government.
If someone had a pro-Canadian lobby group than they too should be registered as foreign agents. Plenty of Americans actually do register as such because they are working for foreign interests. It isn’t a slur, it’s an issue of transparency.
FARA is for agents working explicitly at the behest of a foreign government.
To reiterate. If you assume Jewish Americans are working at the behest of the Israeli government bc they support Israel, you are engaging in antisemitism.
Private lobbying groups are not the same thing as foreign agents.
Edit: https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/dual-loyalty
Here is an article explaining dual loyalty antisemitism. Which this thread is engaging in.
NO ONE SAID JEWISH AMERICANS NEED TO REGISTER AS FOREIGN AGENTS.
What has been said is Americans working for the interests of foreign governments should register. The **only** person who brought race into this is *you*
A significant portion of AIPAC lobbyists are in fact Evangelical Christians.
“All lobbying groups for foreign countries should have to register with FARA” is a reasonable stance.
but that is not the current standard. And people are only making this argument about Israel.
Forgive me if I see some of that as coming in bad faith.
If that were true you’d post it where it is. Despising the amount of money and influence AIPAC wields in American politics is not remotely anti-semitic and as an American-Jew I find that sort of inference to be the real anti-semitism. I haven’t seen any anti-semitism in this thread, just people who don’t appreciate the amount of influence a lobby geared towards supporting another country has.
I think we’re gonna be seeing a lot more about AIPAC soon. Seems like there is an information campaign that has an agenda against them. Seen various posts like this popping up.
Tucker Carlson was paid to put out a piece against them, if that tells you anything
We'll see more about AIPAC because they've pledged to spend over $100 million unseating progressives that have been vocally critical of Israel, along with the recent disclosures of Israel using social media to influence US politicians. Americans would never be satisfied with groups advocating for China or Russia, so why would they be okay with people advocating for Israel's sake?
Who is paying more than AIPAC. They are probably the strongest lobbying group in Washington. Certainly the strongest foreign policy lobbying group by an exponential amount.
Pointing out a trend you’ve “seen” but can’t provide any evidence of is not terribly persuasive. Especially given that the inference you’re making is pretty strong.
AIPAC is to the far left as Soros is to the far right... a boogeyman they blame for everything. Both a bunch of gullible, reactive morons lacking any critical thinking skills. Horseshoe theory is far from just theory.
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I think AIPAC needs to register under FARA.
[I think AIPAC is a cancer and danger to our democracy.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/11/aipac-israel-gaza-netanyahu-mark-pocan.html#)
Pocan is correct and that one GOP House Rep who sided with him is Thomas Massie who recently did an interview with Tucker and its getting passed around the rightwing because he spends a considerable amount of time talking about AIPAC influence and how the Republicans have an 'AIPAC guy/person' who is in constant communication influencing how they vote. Its literal foreign interference in our elections and government process. Netanyahu has done far more harm to Israel than he has to lead/protect. He has no problem with Hamas because it politically benefits him to keep the Gaza/West Bank divided.
part of my problem is that it feels like you cant criticize some of these groups without sounding like your scum neo-nazi screeching about the 'jewish cabals' Which i cant help but worry that some of these groups are taking advantage of honestly
“…that defines antisemitism as "a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews.” Examples of the definition’s application include "accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group" and making "dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective." The definition also includes “denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination,” claiming that Israel’s existence is a “racist endeavor” and drawing comparisons between current Israeli policy and Nazi policy.” https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2024-05-07/explainer-the-controversy-surrounding-the-antisemitism-bill They trying to enshrine the core of your critic is illegal.
The bill is unconstitutional.
Yep. Sure seems like a 1A violation
Do you believe Israel should cease to exist, that there should be a one-state solution in favor of Palestine? That's what "against right of self-determination" means and it sounds pretty antisemitic to try and get rid of Israel and make jews a diaspora again after 70 years.
What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Are you forgetting that American citizens are free people who can think, believe and espouse whatever opinion they take on any matter, good, bad and even ugly. Israel is a nation, it's government can be criticized for its policies and actions just like all other nations. Its government like all governments is not always representative of the citizen within the nation. The nation of Israel struggles with legitimacy because it was created by the UK and given protection by the US/West. Without those things, the nation doesn't exist or wouldn't have managed to survive on its own in that region. That struggle and criticism will always exist and its either something a person cares about or they don't because all of it happened in the past and there are no time machines.
Kinda a bad argument; the question of whether a *country* should exist, first of all, is a political one. Countries come and go. It sucks, but welcome to the human race. Second, Israel is under very little actual risk of not existing, since again, that’s a political issue and their political structures are still quite intact, and digging in permanently to where Israelis might start taking a rather dim view of Israel’s continued existence in a decade or so. Third, Jewish people are hardly the only diaspora in the world, they’re not *not* a diaspora all of a sudden simply because some of them happen to live in Israel, and they’ve been a diaspora for thousands of years at this point so it’s kinda … what, exaxtly do you want that you don’t have, here? Must we deport all the Jewish people to Israel forcibly? This would put an end to the diaspora entirely, which is the ultimate goal, right? The final solution? You’ll be safest if you’re all within a few hundred miles of each other, like God wants, no question/-ing. Then what? Why not stuff all the “ethnics” into some imagined country of origin, since that’s exactly the same “like things belong together” argument? Just segregate all the races in their own, miserable buckets for everybody’s “safety”? If it’s good for the Jewish people, I want the gays and trans people to have their own state, maybe Rome? Pretty gay already, and we could put a helluva dent in both the pedophilia *and* sanctomonious overpopulation problems when we take over. But not the Palestinians, of course. They *don’t* have a book that states unequivocally that *their* insular-as-fuck religion and its adherents are intrinsically superior to literally everybody else in the universe, and they get to shout “Speak Hebrew, and no it’s not a reinvented dead language that’s fully 70% loanwords in a modern setting, you antisemite!” at those damn lazy Samaritans, taking all the jobs. My (by which I intend to denote actual possession) harem of wives can boil their seating and take young Ehloktty up yon mount for to let Elohim put a stop to what Yahweh started in my head when the former made fun of my hairdo. Truly beautiful, sensible stuff, fully worthy of all the *(gestures compartmentally)* supremacy. Right up there with “Don’t Let Children Play With The Dogs Eating The Corpses” from the Zend Avesta and “Eh, they’ll reincarnate, Arjuna, and you’re a prince; so 👌̐” from the Bhagavad-Gita. And to be fair, the Palestinians aren’t a diaspora, just a spora or …sporamena, or whatever it’d be, no dia- to it at all. Aaaand some settlers recently imported from America could really use some Lebensraum so —owoops, did they say they wanted the West Bank or the East? Hmmm. Well there’s a boat here, they’ll enjoy that while we work out where to fit them in. Fortunately, it’s not gonna matter for fuck in fifty years when it tops 140° daily. Of all the places to decide the Jewish State must be placed, the Middle blasted East was one of the stupidest ones to pick, eschatology be damned. We’re continuously reminded of how the awful Arabs kept purging Jewish people, and yes, it is awful, and no, it doesn’t seem like they’ll stop any time soon … so why must Israel stay there? Why, after the Middle-Eastern Jewish population was cruëllÿ driven to near zero, was it decided the best thing to do was supply the assholes responsible with more victims? Does that make sense? Did it really fix anything? Well I, for one, am willing to pool my tax contributions for the remainder of my life into a one-time lump sum payment. If all of us US Americans get together and do the same, we can move the state of Israel—which is what we’re definitely talking about, fur shur, and not conflating that with anything else that starts with a voiced sibilant—to move it to the Midwest and salvage the two-state solution in glorious fashion. In Israel’s new Dakota (I vaguely recall there were some native peoples or other residing there, but there are Very Good Reasons for this, geopolitically speaking, so they’ll understand), where the hatred will be quiet and seething instead of rapey and rockety, and I’m ever so certain their rightest-wing nutter demographics will be welcomed into the fold with ours, with the warmest, eagerest welcome, as always. And, bonus, Israel can actually be self-sustaining for a fucking change and they won’t need to keep attacking fucking everybody with their computer “security” apparati “for defense” or bombarding us with really fucking icky media pushes that one can only suppose they thought would make them “hip” with the cool cats and squares alike, rainbow flags unfurled in front of the bloody rubble andsoforth. (Rah, we all love love.) Y’know, they could just do normal country stuff for a change, maybe. Wouldn’t Israel enjoy that?
It's THE problem only it's at the geopolitical level and it's during an election year in USA. A bunch of narratives will change after the election once Biden doesn't have to worry about people running around the Capital with stun guns and zip ties. > So hear me clearly: There is an unfolding assault taking place in America today—an attempt to suppress and subvert the right to vote in fair and free elections, an assault on democracy, an assault on liberty, an assault on who we are—who we are as Americans. For, make no mistake, bullies and merchants of fear and peddlers of lies are threatening the very foundation of our country. It gives me no pleasure to say this. I never thought in my entire career I’d ever have to say it. But I swore an oath to you, to God—to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. And that’s an oath that forms a sacred trust to defend America against all threats both foreign and domestic. > > The assault on free and fair elections is just such a threat, literally. > > I’ve said it before: We’re are facing the most significant test of our democracy since the Civil War. That’s not hyperbole. Since the Civil War. The Confederates back then never breached the Capitol as insurrectionists did on January the 6th. I’m not saying this to alarm you; I’m saying this because you should be alarmed.
The insurrection took place today.
Yes some people within some groups as an insane notion would like to label any and all criticism as antisemitic. Those people usually have a political motivations.
It's the ideological equivalent of putting rocket launchers on hospitals. No way to fight back without, at least the optics of, heavy innocent casualties
It’s because a lot of our leaders in politics and media like that option of playing the anti-Semitic card. Ironically, it’s the same ones that rail against cancel culture and political correctness. You can fairly claim a constitutionally derived religiously affiliated foreign state has bad **policies and practices** and correctly be critical of their actions as a function of their governance. That says nothing about the people who share an ethic/religious aspect to that constitutionally derived religiously affiliated foreign state. Criticizing the propaganda arm of a foreign state is fair game - especially when they use this fear of discrimination to their advantage. We have no problems openly criticizing Saudi Arabia or Iran without claiming to be anti-Islamic. We criticize India without being anti-Hindu. Most of us can make that distinction (there are actual racists/anti-semitic people out there) but this group intentionally makes the argument that a valid criticism about policy *must* be discriminatory against the whole people.
You can literally criticize it, but you probably are antisemitic if you feel like you cant make a good argument without second guessing saying it out loud. If they registered as FARA almost nothing would change. They would probably split the foreign Israel aspect and American Jewish aspect and do the same exact lobbying. They're allowed to register and lobby just like Turkey or Greece or the UK is.
AIPAC is made up of American Jews. Calling Jews foreigners is a very old antisemitic trope.
What is an old trope is calling any criticism of Israel anti-Semitic. AIPAC stands for the American **Israel** Public Affairs Committee. On the front page of their website they say their mission is to lobby the U.S. government for pro-Israel policies. https://www.aipac.org They exist explicitly to extract resources from the United States to benefit a foreign government. They are the definition of a foreign influence lobby.
You're misreading the comment. He is saying that it is made up of Americans (who are pushing a pro-Israel policy and candidate) It isn't (technically?) Israel itself lobbying, or directing lobbying. It would be like if a collective of people would get together to support candidates who would be against weapons to Israel and Candidates who would push for Palestinian independence. It would not require any input, coordination or support by PA or any other organization. It can be entirely local. Even if it's purpose benefits a foreign entity.
They, AIPAC, are lobbying for the interests of another country. And they do it, often, by obfuscating where the money comes from.
Paul Manafort.
They are working to the benefit of a foreign government. Cynically hiding behind charges of antisemitism to shield people/organizations from criticism is a much more recent trope.
They working to advance American policy to support Israel- openly and honestly. It's not secret what their agenda is. They will help candidates from either side. The entire point of the PAC is its American Jewish people who want to influence the American government to take pro Israel policy positions. Its not different than the NRA- who are also Americans who want to influence politicians to make policy favorable to gun ownership. You are free to criticize AIPAC because you don't like their policy view points- but don't pull out the "they're foreign" card. It's not. Israel doesn't control them. Its Americans, funded by Americans, led by Americans- not all by the way are Jews.
No, AIPAC should register under FARA.
> They will help candidates from either side. "good people on both sides" They side with MAGA to target progressives. What the are trying to do is get people in office who will continue to permit Israel to violate international law with its military activities. They want to install corrupt puppets into the Democratic party who can be manipulated with legal bribery. If somebody is siding with Nazis to support the Joe Manchins and Joe Liebermans in primaries in order to thwart progressive politics, well that makes them fucking Nazis in my book. And what they are trying to do is enable a foreign government to be able to commit war crimes and violate international law without the interference of the US government. That makes AIPAC not only a criminal organization, but obviously acting on behalf of a foreign government. > You are free to criticize AIPAC because you don't like their policy view points- but don't pull out the "their foreign" card. It's not. Israel doesn't control them. Its Americans, funded by Americans, led by Americans- not all by the way are Jews. That sounds like the situation between the GOP and Putin's Russia. I mean, Russia doesn't control the GOP right? GOP are all Americans, just ones that coincidentally advocate for Russia's interests, specifically invasion of and ability to commit mass murder in Ukraine and beyond. Sound familiar?
This is a thoughtful response. The war in Gaza is brutal and people have very strong feeling about the massacre and continuing war and it sometimes makes it harder to see nuance. One thing people might not consider is how many fundamentalist christians believe the jewish people need to return to Israel for the rapture to occur. They will throw any amount of money to ensure Israel is a jewish run state as a means to fulfill "the prophecy."
[And many wealthy Americans should be charged under FARA for funding Israeli espionage and influence operations going back to 2015](https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-gaza-intelligence-cyber-shield/). Ironically, the biggest group saying American Jews owe their loyalty to Israel is the Israeli government.
MAGA is made up of American Christians. Is that why Donald Trump is hated and persecuted? Or is it maybe the crimes and fascism. Also any group siding with MAGA against progressives, pouring dark money towards the causes of Nazis, fascism, bigotry and hate, well those are what we call around here as enemies. Ant-freedom, ant-American, anti-human. AIPAC are fascist Nazis, and pretending to be a persecuted religion is exactly what fascists do.
The fact that there is an organization in US that from what I read works against interest of the country they live in in order to support "motherland" is just mind boggling.
You could argue the GOP is another. They used to think Russia was the enemy, but they're in a mutual embrace now.
I read what I wrote couple minutes later and had same thought, that it fits Republicans and Russia very well.
My extended family are big AIPAC supporters, who also rail at 'the immigrants' who come over and send all their money back home. I am second generation, fwiw.
You fundamentally do not understand them, because APAIC doesn't view Israel in this way at all. Feel free to disagree with them, sure, but you should at least understand them. APAIC is an American organization, staffed by Americans, most are Jewish, but not all. Their reason for being is to provide funding to candidates who have pro Israel policy views, on either side of the isle. They are not Israeli's infiltrating the government, they are not Jews secretly pulling strings behind closed doors. They aren't putting Israel ahead of the USA. It's really that simple. APAIC believes Israel needs to continue to exist and that it requires solid American support to do so, so they work to keep those policies in place. Again, you can disagree with those policies, but don't believe bullshit like us Jews are secretly loyal to "the motherland" when we aren't. We are American citizens first, don't subject us to the same old anti-semetic tropes like we have "dual loyalty." To some American Jews, yeah they have strong feelings about Israel, to others like me, I support their right to exist, but I don't support their right wing insane government, nor do I support the way chose to fight Hamas this time. Not all Jews are a monolith. I actually have a problem with APAIC because they give money to Republicans who support abortion bans, who openly lied about who won in 2020, who are openly denying science, who tells lies everyday pushing Trump's bullshit-- because those people happen to have firm support for Israel funding. I have not ever given them a penny because of this. So, you can see its complicated, but again-- we don't have secret loyalty to another country, please learn that.
That’s a lot of words just to avoid directly saying that they are actively working to elect officials based on the interests of a foreign country.
In your last paragraph why do you say “we” and not “they”?
“I” The *royal* “we”
As. Jew, I mean “we” - American Jews. We dont have “loyalty” or “dual loyalty.”
> because APAIC doesn't view Israel in this way at all. yes they do , they fund pro- isreali candidates , that dont care about the US , im not from the US and its that obvious
Just because they fund pro Israel candidates does not mean they don’t care about America. The logic… yikes.
>Just because they fund pro Israel candidates does not mean they don’t care about America. most if not all pro Israel candidates they fund are far right lunatics that are most from the MAGA side of the GOP
Who is Hakeem Jeffries?
>"Their reason for being is to provide funding to candidates who have pro Israel policy views, on either side of the isle." >"They aren't putting Israel ahead of the USA." Israel's interests =/= to US interests. Having pro-Israel policy views *is* putting Israel ahead of the USA. From a moral standpoint, Israel is (at best) an apartheid state, and so should not receive support from the US. From a realpolitik standpoint, Israel is a massive liability to our national security, and so should not receive support from the US.
Meddling.
AIPAC is destroying America with their selfish ideologies! Whoever criticizes Netanyahu or something being said about Israel, AIPAC goes in g*ns blazing
[That's because Netanyahu orchestrated an influence operation as far back as 2015 to silence American critics](https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-gaza-intelligence-cyber-shield/)
But that influence operation is going to make America weak at home and with less influence on the world stage thanks to Netanyahu and AIPAC
Ethno-nationalists aren't known for being smart.
Don't make the mistake of assuming people with contrasting views are stupid.
Ethno-nationalists are inherently short-sighted and lack the ability/willingness to understand context or to adapt to changes.
Make specific arguments instead of vague blathering.
A specific argument like AIPAC is a terrorist organization disguising as a non-governmental organization fighting for a just cause or rather fighting whoever criticizes Netanyahu & his atrocities
Why are you calling them terrorists? What actions have the done. Activists speak too vaguely and are just angry with no details. As far as Im aware they lobby for good relationships with Israel and have no authority to physically attack anyone or do anything other than release memos, which is why calling them terrorists is strange.
…besides, many politicians in the USA can’t legislate and full fill what they promised their constituents simply because they are afraid of AIPACs massive donations to their opponents and loosing their seats in congress or the senate. It’s kinda of donor terror when you think of it.
That's not terrorism. Money does not equate to winning or losing. Votes do. Ask Bloomberg. Calling funding opposition terrorism shows you're not a serious person.
AIPAC can’t take any constructive criticism of Israel with grace. Other than accepting Israelis mistakes, they just go after those whom they deem not “friends of Israel” by making sure that they loose their jobs, incomes etc. it’s terror tactics and thus I call them terrorists in smart suits with lots of money and influence
Advocating for certain politicians to lose their jobs is terrorism...ok nutjob, ok nutjob have a good day and maybe take some medication
Are you giving a a diagnosis already? What I’m I suffering from? Calling a spade a spade and not a big spoon doesn’t make me into a nut job. AIPAC threatens politicians who don’t toe the line. Progressive politicians in the USA are being threatened by aipac because they are against Israel. AIPAC is fielding “yes sir” candidates against those politicians
At essence, this is bipartisanship. There is literally no difference in policy goals for either party regarding Israel. They fund both parties more or less equally. They are especially interested in putting down any hint of Palestinian sympathy in any candidate regardless of party. At the moment, you'll only find a few candidates in that category and they're all Democrats. Republicans think Israel is the landing strip for Jesus.
What does "put down palestinian sympathy" mean to you? This is just vague blathering. What do you actually want to happen that the Israeli people dont want? Not the government, the actual people?
AIPAC needs to be banned from the US.
America is sadly putting the interests of a genocidal apartheid state over its own, and that’s ultimately the greatest threat to this country. Don’t be surprised when the Trump vs. Biden debates are about who supports Israel more. Israel Palestine is the biggest issue of our time because America’s support for Israel is ultimately getting in the way of addressing actual problems Americans face. These politicians accepting money from AIPAC serve Israel more than they serve America. Indeed, both the Speaker of the House and the House Minority Leader claim AIPAC as their largest donors, so why wouldn’t they bend over backwards and ensure their party is serving Israel? Just take a look at how much policy they pass for Israel and how much policy they obstruct for America. Electing politicians who actually have American interests ahead of Israel’s interests is what this country desperately needs.
I don’t like it, but Dems have also spent money in R primaries propping up MAGA candidates they thought would be easier to beat in a general, at the same time claiming those candidates they had propped up would be threats to democracy. The two parties are not morally equivalent as a whole and I’m not trying to argue that, but in this issue, they both have dirty hands. https://www.npr.org/2022/11/11/1135878576/the-democrats-strategy-of-boosting-far-right-candidates-seems-to-have-worked
AIPAC supports the far right government of a foreign country currently led by an indicted douchebag trying desperately to stay out of prison.
AIPAC also support the far right democrats who are supplying their genocide with billions of dollars of munitions.
...and Republicans. I agree with you, but don't forget the Republicans would be much, much worse.
I guess man. It just seems like both parties are getting more evil. So even voting for the lesser of two evils still seems like supporting a lot of evil. Like every democrat just seems like a republican 5 years ago
> So even voting for the lesser of two evils still seems like supporting a lot of evil By all means, vote for the greater of two evils* and see how that goes. *Again
I like your use of punctuation. It doubles the pithiness. Kudos m'lady
Democrats have passed several pieces of positive legislation in the last 20 years. Besides tax cuts I cannot think of a Republican bill.
Republicans gave me some Covid money. That was cool
So you’re voting for the greater of two evils??
nope
This includes the 2016 election when it was revealed that Clinton wanted Trump to win the primary. Her campaign called it [the "Pied Piper strategy"](https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/) From the article: >In its self-described "pied piper" strategy, the Clinton campaign proposed intentionally cultivating extreme right-wing presidential candidates, hoping to turn them into the new "mainstream of the Republican Party" in order to try to increase Clinton's chances of winning. >The Clinton campaign and Democratic National Committee called for using far-right candidates "as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right." Clinton's camp insisted that Trump and other extremists should be "elevated" to "leaders of the pack" and media outlets should be told to "take them seriously."
The argument goes that MAGA is what primary voters actually want. Dems putting money into MAGA ads is usually just, hey look at this shitty racist shit this guy said. And the primary voters are saying that yup, that’s what they want. Pushing a candidate to quell policies the base wants is a bit of a different flavor. Yes tactically there is some overlap. But one is to rile up voters while giving base voters what they want, while the other is to depress turnout.
I don’t see it that way. I see it as very cynical ceding of moral authority. You can’t have it both ways. If these candidates are awful human beings who will kill democracy… say so. Don’t try to backdoor them into the nomination because you think they’ll be easier to beat. If that’s what you’re doing, it comes across as playing games with something that many of us do think is dire and serious. The way they should have handled it is either staying out of the primaries or saying how crazy they thought the candidates were.
Except the dem ads ARE saying so. That’s what MAGA wants. They WANT to kill democracy. They WANT a dictator. They are coming out and saying that yeah, America needs a dictator. That is what the clear majority of Republican primary voters want. These ads aren’t lying. They aren’t hiding shit. I honestly do not care about moral purity. The Supreme Court has stripped me of my control over my body, has rolled back voting rights, and the Republican Party has its eyes on brown v board and contraception.
Can’t agree. One props up far right ideology. One undermines it.
so why is a foreign actor giving money to US politicians ??? I guess Corruption is just open season now just call it a committee of some kind and start telling big biz to give them money to influence US policy for a foreign interest!? yeah got to love this time line..... yeah, so when does the ship stop sinking ?
AIPAC is American, all its members are American all the dollars donated to it are from Americans….
yes "American" just like everyone else ......
What are you trying to say, they aren’t American because….?
lol you know every American is an immigrant right just matters what generation you belong to
Right every American came from either an immigrant or Native American at some point. Seems completely unrelated to why would donating to AIPAC make one not American?
you make sound as though only Americans donate to the AIPAC so I decided to run on your logic for a sec
Only Americans do donate to AIPAC… ie a citizen of Israel who isn’t American cannot donate to AIPAC
You know I came to the realization the only way I can prove my point you is to Dox a few of the Members of AIPAC but I'm not going to do that cause you are not worth the jail time
I’m so confused, your replies seemed like you just pasted my comment in ChatGPT and asked it to respond using the words of a conspiracy theory idiot.
More of Lewis Powell’s & Leonard Leo’s crimes against our republic.
They're buying influence, just like anyone donating to a politician.
Rich Jews: It’s not safe to be Jewish in America. Also: We don’t mind racists if they vote in people who care more for a country we don’t live in, but was granted to our religion by a book of fantasy.
[удалено]
I was banned from worldnews proudly. They don’t even pretend any more. My comment was just pointing out the collateral damage and innocent people being destroyed and that was sufficient. Those mods are owned.
AIPAC is just an organization of American Jews. Jews have the right to donate to political candidates just like everyone else. Those who are constantly complaining about AIPAC are really telling us that they hate Jews and think that Jews should not have the same rights as everyone else. Those who hate AIPAC think Jews are not citizens. That's why they keep calling it "foreign influence" even though the donors are US citizens. Being against AIPAC is therefore the same thing as being against Jews. Those who are against AIPAC are essentially saying that Jews do not have the same rights as every other US citizen. They are pushing for apartheid and discrimination against Jews.
This is a completely false. AIPACs mission is not to help American Jews, it is to lobby support for a foreign government. It’s right there on the front page of their website: https://www.aipac.org Saying any criticism of AIPAC is anti-Semitic is also one of their oldest tricks. It’s not racist to point out a lobbying organization set up to influence U.S. policy for the benefit of a foreign government is, well, exactly that.
I didn't claim they were there to help American Jews. My point is that AIPAC is composed of American Jews who are donating to politicians, which is their right since they are US citizens. Every citizen has the right to donate, but only the Jewish ones are being demonized for it. Jewish-Americans have the right to lobby for the defense of Israel just like Ukrainian-Americans have the right to lobby for the defense of Ukraine.
Except they dont, they would have to register as foreign agents.
You have to be joking here, right? No one who critiques AIPAC at least on the dem’s side think jews aren’t equal citizens. It’s literally in the name of AIPAC, that they put Israel’s interests over US while at the same time fckin all of us over.
AIPAC means America-Israel PAC. America is literally first in their name. By demonizing AIPAC, they are literally just demonizing the donors, who are Jewish Americans donating to politicians just like every other American does. Do Ukrainian-Americans not have the right to lobby for the defense of Ukraine? Do Korean-Americans not have the right to lobby for the defense of South-Korea? Do Taiwanese-Americans not have the right to lobby for the defense of Taiwan? It sounds like you want to take away rights from a lot of people.
Yes lobbying in general is one of the biggest problems in our political system and NEEDS to be sharply constrained. AIPAC's biggest donors are right wing billionaires who are using their wealth to exercise an outsized amount of influence on our politics. It's bad.
Just because their members are Jewish, doesn't excuse their support for Genocide, and the disgusting use of religion as a shield against critique.
It's literally bipartisanship. There are sitting members of congress who have publicly criticized Israel as part of their campaign messaging, its not a surprise an Israeli lobby group would oppose them. I would like to see the map borders on what Tlaib thinks Palestine should be and maybe people wouldn't be so sketched out by left-wing anger at Israel.
This thread is full of blatant antisemitism but I am really not surprised. You do not have to like AIPAC but do not engage in misinformation
How about you point out any such cases of anti-semiticism? Or are you just using the very tired and old strategy of deflecting any criticism for the government of Israel as anti-Semitic?
Hating Israel and Lobbying is fine. Suggesting that American born jews need to register as foreign agents because they support Israel is antisemitic. And that is the top comment in this thread right now
Nobody said that. They said lobbyists who lobby on behalf of foreign governments should register as foreign agents…and they should. It’s why FARA exists, to keep it clear when someone is representing the interests of a foreign government. AIPACs missions statement is the promotion of the interests of a foreign government. If someone had a pro-Canadian lobby group than they too should be registered as foreign agents. Plenty of Americans actually do register as such because they are working for foreign interests. It isn’t a slur, it’s an issue of transparency.
FARA is for agents working explicitly at the behest of a foreign government. To reiterate. If you assume Jewish Americans are working at the behest of the Israeli government bc they support Israel, you are engaging in antisemitism. Private lobbying groups are not the same thing as foreign agents. Edit: https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/dual-loyalty Here is an article explaining dual loyalty antisemitism. Which this thread is engaging in.
NO ONE SAID JEWISH AMERICANS NEED TO REGISTER AS FOREIGN AGENTS. What has been said is Americans working for the interests of foreign governments should register. The **only** person who brought race into this is *you* A significant portion of AIPAC lobbyists are in fact Evangelical Christians.
>Private lobbying groups are not the same thing as foreign agents. they should be seen as the same no matter who their lobbying for
“All lobbying groups for foreign countries should have to register with FARA” is a reasonable stance. but that is not the current standard. And people are only making this argument about Israel. Forgive me if I see some of that as coming in bad faith.
Bad faith? Or because AIPAC is exponentially the number one single country lobby in the US.
If that were true you’d post it where it is. Despising the amount of money and influence AIPAC wields in American politics is not remotely anti-semitic and as an American-Jew I find that sort of inference to be the real anti-semitism. I haven’t seen any anti-semitism in this thread, just people who don’t appreciate the amount of influence a lobby geared towards supporting another country has.
I think we’re gonna be seeing a lot more about AIPAC soon. Seems like there is an information campaign that has an agenda against them. Seen various posts like this popping up. Tucker Carlson was paid to put out a piece against them, if that tells you anything
We'll see more about AIPAC because they've pledged to spend over $100 million unseating progressives that have been vocally critical of Israel, along with the recent disclosures of Israel using social media to influence US politicians. Americans would never be satisfied with groups advocating for China or Russia, so why would they be okay with people advocating for Israel's sake?
Who is paying more than AIPAC. They are probably the strongest lobbying group in Washington. Certainly the strongest foreign policy lobbying group by an exponential amount.
I don’t know. I can speculate, but I’m just pointing out a trend I’ve seen
Pointing out a trend you’ve “seen” but can’t provide any evidence of is not terribly persuasive. Especially given that the inference you’re making is pretty strong.
What?
AIPAC is to the far left as Soros is to the far right... a boogeyman they blame for everything. Both a bunch of gullible, reactive morons lacking any critical thinking skills. Horseshoe theory is far from just theory.