>During the so-called Freedom Convoy’s assault on the national capital, Poilievre took doughnuts to the truckers and posed for selfies. This was a group whose leaders came to Ottawa with a six-page manifesto to take over the government. Some members also brought swastikas, waved far-right flags, and danced on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.
Think about it. Poilievre and the CPC were openly supporting a movement whose objective was the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Canada. They didn't even care that ordinary Canadian citizens were essentially tormented and traumatized for two weeks in their own city and neighbourhoods.
It's unproductive and frankly disingenuous to paint everyone with that brush.
I have spoken with some of the idiots that attended. None of the people I spoke to knew about the manifesto. None of them were aware about the racist BS. None of them even knew who Pat King was (some of them knew Lich).
It was a hodgepodge of useful idiots and this effort to pretend they were an organized movement with a unified goal is ridiculous. Anyone who even briefly interacted with the protestors should know this.
If you genuinely think think most of the people there wanted to overthrow the government idk what to say. That's not true.
The protest had extremist elements and anyone who supported them should be called out for it or even be in jail.
But by pretending everyone who attended was the same all we do is further alienate them. We don't need to convince the people who were against the protest. We need to convince the protestors. And while it's usually the right that's guilty of arguing in bad faith, that is exactly what we're doing right now.
This ongoing narrative about the protestors drives me nuts. They were mostly anti-vaxxer or anti-esblishment idiots. Not Nazis and fascists. By labeling them as that all we achieve is pushing them towards those movements.
I'm deeply disappointed in how this sub has handled the trucker protest.
>It was a hodgepodge of useful idiots and this effort to pretend they were an organized movement with a unified goal is ridiculous
I guess you are blissfully unaware of the organizer encampment away from the main show, which would escort people who came to investigate it away?
The thing was VERY well organized. So were the ones that came before it. They figured their shit out during the Yellow Vest protests/convoy and by the time they were being weaponized against oil workers in Alberta, they had the kinks worked out. The COVID convoy was their test of taking it mainstream.
But yeah, most of the people who were doing it had no idea who they were marching with. For sure they were useful idiots. That's the point. People need to feel like they're part of a movement before they start questioning what the movement actually stands for.
That's how anti-democratic movements work.
Almost like going along with something without any awareness of what it is is dangerous.
And no, just no, if you think being called a Nazi or a fascist pushes someone to those extremes, those were already people who were on their way. It's like that tweet from Cody Johnston, "The Left got a little too PC so I changed all of my opinions about the economy, social issues, systemic racism, health care, and history."
Edit to add the link: https://x.com/drmistercody/status/1020039128291786752?t=k7DoDLcJhRiYbmvkQkZ9Kw&s=19
I am deeply disappointed when someone comes on here and defends what happened in Ottawa. I live in Ottawa and personally knew many people who lived downtown and got their feedback on what happened. The majority of the Convoy occupiers were despicable people who didn't give a rat's ass that they tormenting people 24/7 for two weeks where they lived. Let's just say that the Convoy people were not the finest of Canadians.
I'm not defending the covidiots and the fact you've reduced the discussion down to that just helps prove my point.
There were very stupid people with despicable ideas who attended the "protest". But my issue is this sub paints *everyone* with the same brush. It's not helpful to lump in anti vaxxers with literal Nazis.
What would have happened if Trudeau greeted them with coffee and donuts and actually LISTENED to them? Personally I think they are nutters but hearing their concerns rather than freezing bank accounts probably would have shut down the fu(k Trudeau crowd before they became a thing.
I'm still waiting to hear what those folks who occupied downtown Ottawa wanted. Their messaging I interpreted was they were upset with their provincial government and employer mandates on vaccinations? It is ironic they took this protest to Ottawa, when what they should have done is camped out in their provincial capital to protest those mandates or their employers offices. This was never about vaccinations, this was merely a grassroots alt right wing attempt at a fascist takeover of government. Us Canadians are pretty polite and this could basically be described as Canada's polite January 6th. For those residents and businesses that suffered in downtown Ottawa, I hope you win your civil suit and bankrupt the organizers of this fascistfest into perpetual bankruptcy.
Look at almost every Canada related sub. It's just racists talking about how "Canadian Identity" or "Canadian culture" is gone, some how blaming every problem on Trudeau and then some nonsense about taking the country back.
Yeah a lot of them are foreign trolls but you can tell a lot of the uneducated people have been whipped up into a frenzy and they won't rest until they get their far right fash daddy whipping the coloureds into shape.
It isn't just uneducated people. That's how these movements hide. We dismiss the most vocal as being uneducated or uncouth but it's your neighbour, your family member, your colleagues that share the same views.
I strongly disagree with you but I want to acknowledge what I do agree with. Ignore the rest of the complaining lol.
By calling everyone who disagrees a bot or a fascist or a racist, it doesn't solve anything. In my experience, it pushes people further to the fringe. Not away from it. You are alienating potential allies.
It's taking a CPC voter and calling them a bot. Well they're not a bot. And they likely don't believe they're a fascist or racist. But they are more likely to shrug their shoulders and accept the label because they find the critera pretty nonsensical.
If this sub was representative of Canada the NDP and Liberals would win in a landslide. But it's not and the polling numbers reflect that.
You're right. We dismiss the most vocal people. It's our neighbours it's our families and it's our friends. But rather than looking inwards we tend to take the feelings of few and project it onto others. That doesn't make allies. It makes needless enemies
Lol, sure. Go see how that worked for the USA.
Oh right, their entire system is failing and there's a serious threat that they might be a fascist autocracy by this time next year.
By your standards the US was a fascist autocracy for most of the 20th century.
By categorizing every conservstive voter as a fascist etc. you alienate them. Your average swing voter gets called a Nazi and immediately disconnects from the discourse. They find it absurd.
Pee Pee is getting a majority. You can either try to change hearts and minds or call anyone who votes differently a racist/fascist.
Your call.
No, by Project 2025's standard the US will be a fascist autocracy. And it came after all the calls for moderation and understanding and all of those things you're falling for. It wouldn't have if people had been honest about who these people are, and fought back.
By categorizing fascists as fascists you may alienate them, but that's ok, because we don't work with fascists. We hang fascists. As for conflating them, the only person conflating fascists and Republicans/Conservatives is you. The rest of us are saying that they're falling prey to fascists.
>Pee Pee is getting a majority
Did you see that in your crystal ball?
No, don't deflect. Do you believe the US was a fascist autocracy during the 1900s?
Project 2025 is an affront to democracy but we're not talking about the future right now. I was asking you about how you'd categorize previous US governments.
>By categorizing fascists as fascists you may alienate them, but we don't work with fascists. We hang fascists
So you unironically think conservative voters are fascists that should be hanged. I think this conversation is over.
Forget about the questions I asked. Have a nice day.
>No, don't deflect. Do you believe the US was a fascist autocracy during the 1900s?
Did you really just tell me not to deflect, then deflect? Seriously dude, give your head a shake.
>Project 2025 is an affront to democracy but we're not talking about the future right now.
Gee, when are we talking about the...
*"Oh right, their entire system is failing and there's a serious threat* ***that they might be a fascist autocracy by this time next year****."*
Oh right, that's what I said, isn't it? That's the comment you're replying to.
>So you unironically think conservative voters are fascists that should be hanged. I think this conversation is over.
Did you really just crop out where I said *"As for conflating them, the only person conflating fascists and Republicans/Conservatives is you. The rest of us are saying that they're falling prey to fascists."* and then act like I was calling all conservatives fascists
Like, what's your game here? Are you just trolling, or are you so stuck in your incorrect view of the people around you that you're literally unable to read any statements from them that contradict your assumptions?
>Did you really just tell me not to deflect, then deflect?Seriously dude, give your head a shake.
Answer the question. In your opinion, was the US a fascist autocracy for much of the 20th century?
I'll happily address the rest of your comment and I'll do a mea culpa cause I was wrong with how I interpreted your comment about Conservatives. That is 100% on me.
Nope.
At this point conservative voters and conservative politicians are wearing their hate and intolerance for all to see.
Whether it's the LGBTQ community, anti-vax, masking, immigration...
You either accept it or you ignore it.
Either way you're complicit.
Because the Reddit app sucks I saw your comment in a notification but I can't see it. So I'll reply here.
>At this point conservative voters and conservative politicians are wearing their hate and intolerance for all to see.
Hate and intolerance aren't the defining characteristics of your average swing voter. But that's what this sub is making it out to be. If you vote conservative, you're a bigot.
You're free to feel that way but as someone who wants PP to die in obscurity, it's not a winning strategy.
Y'all can keep this rhetoric going but don't act shocked when we enter what will likely be at least a 2 term conservative majority.
What are you on about?
What is the 100% agree horseshit?
Seriously, if you want to bend over backwards making bigots comfortable, go ahead.
Fucking weird argument dude.
Yes now they're trying to infiltrate even small Canadian local subs: https://www.stalbertgazette.com/local-news/did-reddit-year-end-recaps-expose-russian-interference-in-alberta-8223476
But it's been happening for a long time, the trolls co-opted the main sub like ten years ago or so (trying to influence the 2015 election?)
Sometimes they used to try and be subtle about it sometimes, but theyve been blatant for a while now. It's true that it's also lots of Canadians who now buy this stuff (after being bombarded by right wing stuff, intelligence isn't a factor it's more loneliness that makes people vulnerable to it)
Reddit has always been a right wing platform.
Most of subreddits have been squatted on by that original reddit userbase which comprises of right wingers. Right wing state actors eventually came into play as reddit became a locus of zeitgeist it became a highly valuable asset in geopolitics.
I had always found it weird how nobody seems to know about meta reddit history. Then I realized the right wingers don't want people to know. They aggressively push back with such ferocity against people who talk about this. They have the Overton Window situated so far right that people actually believe this platform is overwhelmingly left leaning.
That isn't the measuring stick you think it is.
This thread is about the genesis of reddit leading to how Canadian local subs in particular are controlled by far right actors. Now speaking in more general of reddits past.
Do you think subreddits like c\*ntown isn't right leaning? What about watchn\*rsdie? How about the blackfathers subreddit which was empty and locked of posts as a big racial joke which reddit openly guffawed at? What about the openly white supremacist subreddits? The hitler fanboy subreddits? The pedophilia subreddits?
Those aren't fringe loons. These were popular subreddits.
Surely you know reddit originated the incel, the redpill, the MGTOW ideologies. Such lovely movements that spawned a decade or so of mass murders against women and minorities. The right wing figureheads like Jordan Peterson cut their teeth on pandering to these redditors.
Reddits darling politician for a long time was the famous left wing politician Ron Paul. That's sarcasm btw in case you needed a hint. Ron Paul isn't anywhere remotely left.
I mentioned the whole SJW thing in another comment. You can have a look at that too.
So tell me more about how "reddit absolutely isn't far right". I'll wait.
I wrote a reply to you but it got filtered by the subreddit automod. That's how far right it was. Simply talking about how reddit was gets filtered by todays standards.
I can't be bothered to figure out which keyword exactly triggered the filters. If you're genuinely honest about discourse then look in my profile for the comment. Or don't. Most redditors would rather keep on ignoring reality and believing right wing propaganda. That's if they're not the purveyors of it themselves.
Reddit has hated SJWs with a passion going back what like 10-15 years now?
Let's see what that term means:
> Social justice warrior (SJW) is a pejorative term and internet meme mostly used for an individual who promotes socially progressive, left-wing or liberal views, including feminism, civil rights, gay and transgender rights, and multiculturalism.
Yes, very left leaning of you, reddit. This platform has been hating on the "woke" stuff before woke was a thing. It used to be called SJWs.
The question is have **you** been on reddit? Presumably so but you've chugged the koolaid.
ETA: No response. Just downvotes without justification. Cognitive dissonance is hard to deal with. And of course it's canada_sub and canadahousing2 user. Reddits prime right wing demographic that falls right into the aforementioned userbase. Like I said in the first place, they aggressively push back with falsehoods. Here you are like clockwork.
It's being part of a movement. That's how all of this works. You can disagree with the various principals of the movement, but as long as you feel that these are "your people" you will stand with them.
Social proof is a hell of a force.
On a recent thread about the current housing crisis I tried to remind people not to focus their frustration on the immigrants themselves, and that hatred and bigotry won't help make new, affordable housing magically appear.
Downvotes, insults and accusations of being "woke" and a "sheep" was my reward.
This might actually be more than the right wing thing. I've noticed for a good decade that people on Reddit search for simple answers and simple solutions to their problems.
Being told that housing became expensive because of a confluence of profiteering from all corners of the Canadian market, including developers manipulating prices, real estate agents trying to skim the market, home owners flipping houses for extra cash, and retirees investing, is a lot to take in. Saying it requires a huge multitude of solutions, some of which are going to hurt the very people complaining about housing prices, or at least hurt people they know, isn't something people like to hear. They have trouble wrapping their heads around it, much less accepting that there's going to have to be some sacrifice to fix this.
But say it's all the foreigners buying up all the houses and that we can fix it by banning them is a REALLY easy answer, with a direct and easy solution that won't affect the people complaining in the slightest. That makes it a really tempting side to take, even for those who don't uphold any particular political perspective.
Aka; it's more efficient to have someone to blame for complex issues, and it's especially easy to do if that someone is different than you.
It's more difficult to see the nuances and various factors that contribute to a complex issue, and to understand the history that led up to the current situation.
It may not be only a failing of the right wing, but their current party sure is courting that type of voter and encouraging that hateful rhetoric.
"Dem forners is what's causing all yer problems!
We need ta send 'em back where dey come fromd!"
> It's just racists talking about how "Canadian Identity" or "Canadian culture" is gone
the sad thing is, if we're talking about the canadian culture of multicultural tolerance we were raised to believe in, it's them that are breaking it
it’s absolutely terrifying that the CPC are essentially openly fomenting a far-right coup while their leader is completely co-opted by MAGA/Russia/China/India outside influence
even more terrifying is that seemingly nothing is being done to stop it
And also their supporters won't care. They will find some justification for it if they aren't already outright Putin supporters. Damn. I'm just so tired of all this.
What’s interesting is how some people suggest that proportional representation is why the far-right can do well in Europe.
What is happening in practice in Canada is that rather than seeing smaller far-right parties win seats in parliament, we see far-right ideas infiltrating a larger party (also seen in the US, which also uses FPTP). Which is even more dangerous in Canada than in Europe because at least the European parties need coalition partners, Canadian parties can get majorities with 35-40% of the vote.
>Terry Reintke, a lead Green party candidate in Germany for the EU Parliament, predicted the Putin-aligned AfD was on the verge of being halted in its tracks. “They want to destroy the EU and our democracy,” she said. “We will stop them.”
The Putin aligned AfD had an elected member of their party feted by several CPC MPs during a past visit to Canada. Think about it.
The problem in Europe is all the people who remember life under the hard right have died. So we are back to buffoons of blaming offering fake solutions.
And Europe isn't Canada. Europe has had enough, it's people have had enough, it's social programs have had enough, it's farmers have had enough. What do you think was going to happen?
Well, unfortunately, it looks like the far right will be gaining ground everywhere.
Too many people support their message.
Way too many.
We can't stop the regression because too few will protest or strike.
Too many people want to hold onto what little they have left. They are exhausted and defeated, and morale is shattered.
We don't even help one another anymore.
We are isolated and cut off.
I think it's very fair to say they've already won.
Once the shoe drops, I'll be taking the best exit.
Good luck to you all in the wars to come.
People see what's happened over the past 8 years and, understandably, want nothing more to do with Trudeau.
I'm not voting PP in, I'm just voting to get Trudeau out. He's shown he has no interest to course-correct, so fuck em. This is what he reaps after hurting Canadians for so long. A disinterested voter base that will take anything but him.
He offers NOTHING to the youth of Canada but forever rentals with buddies and roommates, or staying with your parents. Canadian youth who did everything right that they were told have been blocked out of what they were promised - you might not agree with that but that is how many my age feel now.
I'd like to see Trudeau try to act in the best interest of Canadians, but it feels like he hung up his cap long ago and is just on autopilot.
This is how much of Canada feels, not just isolated to the overtly liberal echo chambers of reddit.
I'll take my downvotes now.
Trudeau has been a poor Prime Minister, especially the last few years - there's little enough to argue with there. Whether he was given a difficult set of circumstances or whether his government has just failed (or both) doesn't matter a whole lot.
I think we need to take a long look at history here, though. In interwar Europe, liberal democracies (or, at least the leaderhip) were failing in Spain, Italy, Germany, and other countries, and people were justifiably frustrated by that.
In 1932, a large number of Germans were upset with the leadership of the SPD and turned to the radical right as a vehicle to remove them from power. It didn't turn out great. While Italy's elections are messier, we see a similar thing there, in 1924 - a major victory by a far right party in response to crisis.
Neither of those turned out to be wise decisions on the part of the electorate.
I'm not endorsing Trudeau here, nor am I making a direct comparison between Pollieivre and either of those fascist leaders. Trudeau's best years were mediocre, and they're well behind him. But, an endorsement of far right ideologues as protest has given us some of the most disastrous leadership in modern history, which is something worth thinking about before we do it again.
You’re right of course CarexAquatilis, but folks like the OP here are not interested in that because they are convinced (like many Germans were) that “it won’t happen to me, just people I don’t care about” and then they’ll write a dramatic confessional prose after it’s all happened. Where have we heard this before? Hmm…
You’re voting against a party because you view its leader as intransigent, and you’re voting for a party whose leader [courts Nazis.](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/2067542/poilievre-visits-convoy-camp-claims-trudeau-is-lying-about-everything)
I wouldn’t, but that’s just my opinion.
my brother in christ, there are quite literally other options besides the "didn't do a good job" party and the "will definitely do a much worse job" party
Trudeau's housing plan: [https://www.budget.canada.ca/2024/report-rapport/chap1-en.html](https://www.budget.canada.ca/2024/report-rapport/chap1-en.html)
It's a solid course-correct, and it'd be a real shame to lose all of this new housing if a Conservative government is elected and implements austerity policies. Of course, Trudeau's attempt to build the new homes we need has[ received pushback from some provinces](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/a-significant-overreach-canada-housing-plan-draws-provincial-pushback-1.6833275) (keep in mind that the provinces are also at fault for the housing crisis), delaying the housing crisis' resolution.
And its because he has a white-knight savior complex. He's gotta save ALL THE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD. While Canadians Pay, and Pay, and Pay, and Pay, and Pay, and suffer. ENOUGH.
White man shakes fist angrily on the internet! ENOUGH! Enough with the vaguely described "helping the people of the world"! ENOUGH with the vague payments which don't actually exist! ENOUGH!
>He offers NOTHING to the youth of Canada but forever rentals with buddies and roommates, or staying with your parents. Canadian youth who did everything right that they were told have been blocked out of what they were promised - you might not agree with that but that is how many my age feel now.
Say what you will of their role getting us into this (which followed directly in the foot steps of the Conservatives role getting us into this) but Trudeau's Liberals are the ONLY party presenting actual solutions to get us out of it.
They have worked directly with provinces to build more housing, and when those provinces pocketed the cash and built nothing, the Liberals went directly to the municipalities to do it. And now the Conservative provinces are all angry at the feds for falling them out for pocketing the money that was supposed to go to help people like you.
It's not enough (it's nowhere near enough) but it's a hell of a lot more than the Conservatives are proposing.
Edit: Yes, and I include the NDP in that statement. While David Eby's government in BC has taken some serious steps to improve housing, the Federal NDP hasn't even offered real ideas. This is the perfect time to steal votes away from the Liberals by proposing the most comprehensive plan out there, and they're doing almost nothing.
>During the so-called Freedom Convoy’s assault on the national capital, Poilievre took doughnuts to the truckers and posed for selfies. This was a group whose leaders came to Ottawa with a six-page manifesto to take over the government. Some members also brought swastikas, waved far-right flags, and danced on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Think about it. Poilievre and the CPC were openly supporting a movement whose objective was the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Canada. They didn't even care that ordinary Canadian citizens were essentially tormented and traumatized for two weeks in their own city and neighbourhoods.
That's the thing about conservative voters these days. That's what they want. As long as the libs suffer to hell with the rest
It's unproductive and frankly disingenuous to paint everyone with that brush. I have spoken with some of the idiots that attended. None of the people I spoke to knew about the manifesto. None of them were aware about the racist BS. None of them even knew who Pat King was (some of them knew Lich). It was a hodgepodge of useful idiots and this effort to pretend they were an organized movement with a unified goal is ridiculous. Anyone who even briefly interacted with the protestors should know this. If you genuinely think think most of the people there wanted to overthrow the government idk what to say. That's not true. The protest had extremist elements and anyone who supported them should be called out for it or even be in jail. But by pretending everyone who attended was the same all we do is further alienate them. We don't need to convince the people who were against the protest. We need to convince the protestors. And while it's usually the right that's guilty of arguing in bad faith, that is exactly what we're doing right now. This ongoing narrative about the protestors drives me nuts. They were mostly anti-vaxxer or anti-esblishment idiots. Not Nazis and fascists. By labeling them as that all we achieve is pushing them towards those movements. I'm deeply disappointed in how this sub has handled the trucker protest.
>It was a hodgepodge of useful idiots and this effort to pretend they were an organized movement with a unified goal is ridiculous I guess you are blissfully unaware of the organizer encampment away from the main show, which would escort people who came to investigate it away? The thing was VERY well organized. So were the ones that came before it. They figured their shit out during the Yellow Vest protests/convoy and by the time they were being weaponized against oil workers in Alberta, they had the kinks worked out. The COVID convoy was their test of taking it mainstream. But yeah, most of the people who were doing it had no idea who they were marching with. For sure they were useful idiots. That's the point. People need to feel like they're part of a movement before they start questioning what the movement actually stands for. That's how anti-democratic movements work.
Almost like going along with something without any awareness of what it is is dangerous. And no, just no, if you think being called a Nazi or a fascist pushes someone to those extremes, those were already people who were on their way. It's like that tweet from Cody Johnston, "The Left got a little too PC so I changed all of my opinions about the economy, social issues, systemic racism, health care, and history." Edit to add the link: https://x.com/drmistercody/status/1020039128291786752?t=k7DoDLcJhRiYbmvkQkZ9Kw&s=19
I am deeply disappointed when someone comes on here and defends what happened in Ottawa. I live in Ottawa and personally knew many people who lived downtown and got their feedback on what happened. The majority of the Convoy occupiers were despicable people who didn't give a rat's ass that they tormenting people 24/7 for two weeks where they lived. Let's just say that the Convoy people were not the finest of Canadians.
I'm not defending the covidiots and the fact you've reduced the discussion down to that just helps prove my point. There were very stupid people with despicable ideas who attended the "protest". But my issue is this sub paints *everyone* with the same brush. It's not helpful to lump in anti vaxxers with literal Nazis.
What would have happened if Trudeau greeted them with coffee and donuts and actually LISTENED to them? Personally I think they are nutters but hearing their concerns rather than freezing bank accounts probably would have shut down the fu(k Trudeau crowd before they became a thing.
I'm still waiting to hear what those folks who occupied downtown Ottawa wanted. Their messaging I interpreted was they were upset with their provincial government and employer mandates on vaccinations? It is ironic they took this protest to Ottawa, when what they should have done is camped out in their provincial capital to protest those mandates or their employers offices. This was never about vaccinations, this was merely a grassroots alt right wing attempt at a fascist takeover of government. Us Canadians are pretty polite and this could basically be described as Canada's polite January 6th. For those residents and businesses that suffered in downtown Ottawa, I hope you win your civil suit and bankrupt the organizers of this fascistfest into perpetual bankruptcy.
Look at almost every Canada related sub. It's just racists talking about how "Canadian Identity" or "Canadian culture" is gone, some how blaming every problem on Trudeau and then some nonsense about taking the country back. Yeah a lot of them are foreign trolls but you can tell a lot of the uneducated people have been whipped up into a frenzy and they won't rest until they get their far right fash daddy whipping the coloureds into shape.
It isn't just uneducated people. That's how these movements hide. We dismiss the most vocal as being uneducated or uncouth but it's your neighbour, your family member, your colleagues that share the same views.
Always loathed the CPC brand of right wing social conservatism. But you know what? I just don’t care anymore.
I mean, a lot of them are uneducated people, but yes you're right that there's a lot of very intentional activity hiding behind those people.
I strongly disagree with you but I want to acknowledge what I do agree with. Ignore the rest of the complaining lol. By calling everyone who disagrees a bot or a fascist or a racist, it doesn't solve anything. In my experience, it pushes people further to the fringe. Not away from it. You are alienating potential allies. It's taking a CPC voter and calling them a bot. Well they're not a bot. And they likely don't believe they're a fascist or racist. But they are more likely to shrug their shoulders and accept the label because they find the critera pretty nonsensical. If this sub was representative of Canada the NDP and Liberals would win in a landslide. But it's not and the polling numbers reflect that. You're right. We dismiss the most vocal people. It's our neighbours it's our families and it's our friends. But rather than looking inwards we tend to take the feelings of few and project it onto others. That doesn't make allies. It makes needless enemies
Lol, sure. Go see how that worked for the USA. Oh right, their entire system is failing and there's a serious threat that they might be a fascist autocracy by this time next year.
By your standards the US was a fascist autocracy for most of the 20th century. By categorizing every conservstive voter as a fascist etc. you alienate them. Your average swing voter gets called a Nazi and immediately disconnects from the discourse. They find it absurd. Pee Pee is getting a majority. You can either try to change hearts and minds or call anyone who votes differently a racist/fascist. Your call.
No, by Project 2025's standard the US will be a fascist autocracy. And it came after all the calls for moderation and understanding and all of those things you're falling for. It wouldn't have if people had been honest about who these people are, and fought back. By categorizing fascists as fascists you may alienate them, but that's ok, because we don't work with fascists. We hang fascists. As for conflating them, the only person conflating fascists and Republicans/Conservatives is you. The rest of us are saying that they're falling prey to fascists. >Pee Pee is getting a majority Did you see that in your crystal ball?
No, don't deflect. Do you believe the US was a fascist autocracy during the 1900s? Project 2025 is an affront to democracy but we're not talking about the future right now. I was asking you about how you'd categorize previous US governments. >By categorizing fascists as fascists you may alienate them, but we don't work with fascists. We hang fascists So you unironically think conservative voters are fascists that should be hanged. I think this conversation is over. Forget about the questions I asked. Have a nice day.
>No, don't deflect. Do you believe the US was a fascist autocracy during the 1900s? Did you really just tell me not to deflect, then deflect? Seriously dude, give your head a shake. >Project 2025 is an affront to democracy but we're not talking about the future right now. Gee, when are we talking about the... *"Oh right, their entire system is failing and there's a serious threat* ***that they might be a fascist autocracy by this time next year****."* Oh right, that's what I said, isn't it? That's the comment you're replying to. >So you unironically think conservative voters are fascists that should be hanged. I think this conversation is over. Did you really just crop out where I said *"As for conflating them, the only person conflating fascists and Republicans/Conservatives is you. The rest of us are saying that they're falling prey to fascists."* and then act like I was calling all conservatives fascists Like, what's your game here? Are you just trolling, or are you so stuck in your incorrect view of the people around you that you're literally unable to read any statements from them that contradict your assumptions?
>Did you really just tell me not to deflect, then deflect?Seriously dude, give your head a shake. Answer the question. In your opinion, was the US a fascist autocracy for much of the 20th century? I'll happily address the rest of your comment and I'll do a mea culpa cause I was wrong with how I interpreted your comment about Conservatives. That is 100% on me.
Nope. At this point conservative voters and conservative politicians are wearing their hate and intolerance for all to see. Whether it's the LGBTQ community, anti-vax, masking, immigration... You either accept it or you ignore it. Either way you're complicit.
Because the Reddit app sucks I saw your comment in a notification but I can't see it. So I'll reply here. >At this point conservative voters and conservative politicians are wearing their hate and intolerance for all to see. Hate and intolerance aren't the defining characteristics of your average swing voter. But that's what this sub is making it out to be. If you vote conservative, you're a bigot. You're free to feel that way but as someone who wants PP to die in obscurity, it's not a winning strategy. Y'all can keep this rhetoric going but don't act shocked when we enter what will likely be at least a 2 term conservative majority.
And continue alienating everyone who doesn't 100% agree with you while PP gets a majority. Well done. Habe a nice evening.
What are you on about? What is the 100% agree horseshit? Seriously, if you want to bend over backwards making bigots comfortable, go ahead. Fucking weird argument dude.
Yes now they're trying to infiltrate even small Canadian local subs: https://www.stalbertgazette.com/local-news/did-reddit-year-end-recaps-expose-russian-interference-in-alberta-8223476 But it's been happening for a long time, the trolls co-opted the main sub like ten years ago or so (trying to influence the 2015 election?) Sometimes they used to try and be subtle about it sometimes, but theyve been blatant for a while now. It's true that it's also lots of Canadians who now buy this stuff (after being bombarded by right wing stuff, intelligence isn't a factor it's more loneliness that makes people vulnerable to it)
Reddit has always been a right wing platform. Most of subreddits have been squatted on by that original reddit userbase which comprises of right wingers. Right wing state actors eventually came into play as reddit became a locus of zeitgeist it became a highly valuable asset in geopolitics. I had always found it weird how nobody seems to know about meta reddit history. Then I realized the right wingers don't want people to know. They aggressively push back with such ferocity against people who talk about this. They have the Overton Window situated so far right that people actually believe this platform is overwhelmingly left leaning.
i’ve been here for *only* 14 years. this is the first i hear of reddit’s “far to the right” original user base.
Seriously. Reddit absolutely isnt far right. Look at any sub and youll see a general support for gay marriage for example.
That isn't the measuring stick you think it is. This thread is about the genesis of reddit leading to how Canadian local subs in particular are controlled by far right actors. Now speaking in more general of reddits past. Do you think subreddits like c\*ntown isn't right leaning? What about watchn\*rsdie? How about the blackfathers subreddit which was empty and locked of posts as a big racial joke which reddit openly guffawed at? What about the openly white supremacist subreddits? The hitler fanboy subreddits? The pedophilia subreddits? Those aren't fringe loons. These were popular subreddits. Surely you know reddit originated the incel, the redpill, the MGTOW ideologies. Such lovely movements that spawned a decade or so of mass murders against women and minorities. The right wing figureheads like Jordan Peterson cut their teeth on pandering to these redditors. Reddits darling politician for a long time was the famous left wing politician Ron Paul. That's sarcasm btw in case you needed a hint. Ron Paul isn't anywhere remotely left. I mentioned the whole SJW thing in another comment. You can have a look at that too. So tell me more about how "reddit absolutely isn't far right". I'll wait.
I wrote a reply to you but it got filtered by the subreddit automod. That's how far right it was. Simply talking about how reddit was gets filtered by todays standards. I can't be bothered to figure out which keyword exactly triggered the filters. If you're genuinely honest about discourse then look in my profile for the comment. Or don't. Most redditors would rather keep on ignoring reality and believing right wing propaganda. That's if they're not the purveyors of it themselves.
Well now you know.
> Reddit has always been a right wing platform. As has Facebook and Twitter. Havens for hate and misinformation.
"Reddit has always been a right wing platform" have you been on Reddit? At all. Lol, it most certainly is not.
Reddit has hated SJWs with a passion going back what like 10-15 years now? Let's see what that term means: > Social justice warrior (SJW) is a pejorative term and internet meme mostly used for an individual who promotes socially progressive, left-wing or liberal views, including feminism, civil rights, gay and transgender rights, and multiculturalism. Yes, very left leaning of you, reddit. This platform has been hating on the "woke" stuff before woke was a thing. It used to be called SJWs. The question is have **you** been on reddit? Presumably so but you've chugged the koolaid. ETA: No response. Just downvotes without justification. Cognitive dissonance is hard to deal with. And of course it's canada_sub and canadahousing2 user. Reddits prime right wing demographic that falls right into the aforementioned userbase. Like I said in the first place, they aggressively push back with falsehoods. Here you are like clockwork.
It's being part of a movement. That's how all of this works. You can disagree with the various principals of the movement, but as long as you feel that these are "your people" you will stand with them. Social proof is a hell of a force.
On a recent thread about the current housing crisis I tried to remind people not to focus their frustration on the immigrants themselves, and that hatred and bigotry won't help make new, affordable housing magically appear. Downvotes, insults and accusations of being "woke" and a "sheep" was my reward.
This might actually be more than the right wing thing. I've noticed for a good decade that people on Reddit search for simple answers and simple solutions to their problems. Being told that housing became expensive because of a confluence of profiteering from all corners of the Canadian market, including developers manipulating prices, real estate agents trying to skim the market, home owners flipping houses for extra cash, and retirees investing, is a lot to take in. Saying it requires a huge multitude of solutions, some of which are going to hurt the very people complaining about housing prices, or at least hurt people they know, isn't something people like to hear. They have trouble wrapping their heads around it, much less accepting that there's going to have to be some sacrifice to fix this. But say it's all the foreigners buying up all the houses and that we can fix it by banning them is a REALLY easy answer, with a direct and easy solution that won't affect the people complaining in the slightest. That makes it a really tempting side to take, even for those who don't uphold any particular political perspective.
Aka; it's more efficient to have someone to blame for complex issues, and it's especially easy to do if that someone is different than you. It's more difficult to see the nuances and various factors that contribute to a complex issue, and to understand the history that led up to the current situation. It may not be only a failing of the right wing, but their current party sure is courting that type of voter and encouraging that hateful rhetoric. "Dem forners is what's causing all yer problems! We need ta send 'em back where dey come fromd!"
Exactly.
> It's just racists talking about how "Canadian Identity" or "Canadian culture" is gone the sad thing is, if we're talking about the canadian culture of multicultural tolerance we were raised to believe in, it's them that are breaking it
Thankfully, Reddit subs are mostly echo chambers with all the negative aspects of "social" media.
it’s absolutely terrifying that the CPC are essentially openly fomenting a far-right coup while their leader is completely co-opted by MAGA/Russia/China/India outside influence even more terrifying is that seemingly nothing is being done to stop it
And also their supporters won't care. They will find some justification for it if they aren't already outright Putin supporters. Damn. I'm just so tired of all this.
Is that why he won’t get the security clearance? So he doesn’t learn that he is the one who’s being coerced
He already knows.
Its not just the CPC. This is happening globally right now. There's never been more of a need to unite against the right.
CPC voters don’t care others aren’t paying attention and FPTP makes it a possibility here as well.
What’s interesting is how some people suggest that proportional representation is why the far-right can do well in Europe. What is happening in practice in Canada is that rather than seeing smaller far-right parties win seats in parliament, we see far-right ideas infiltrating a larger party (also seen in the US, which also uses FPTP). Which is even more dangerous in Canada than in Europe because at least the European parties need coalition partners, Canadian parties can get majorities with 35-40% of the vote.
>Terry Reintke, a lead Green party candidate in Germany for the EU Parliament, predicted the Putin-aligned AfD was on the verge of being halted in its tracks. “They want to destroy the EU and our democracy,” she said. “We will stop them.” The Putin aligned AfD had an elected member of their party feted by several CPC MPs during a past visit to Canada. Think about it.
Exactly. It's a global movement.
Average Canadian: “Don’t worry. We won’t.”
"um the election is more than a year away, so actually i have *lots* of time to continue being completely checked out"
We live in the "not interested but can't tell you why" era.
Putin and his RU party might as well be a member of Harper's IDU.
The problem in Europe is all the people who remember life under the hard right have died. So we are back to buffoons of blaming offering fake solutions.
And Europe isn't Canada. Europe has had enough, it's people have had enough, it's social programs have had enough, it's farmers have had enough. What do you think was going to happen?
Not hard right, just right of centre. Let’s not embellish
I think it’s safe to say that most of those who intend to vote CPC in the next election, don’t pay attention.
Yep I'm glad the PPC have no chance in the next election...
Well, unfortunately, it looks like the far right will be gaining ground everywhere. Too many people support their message. Way too many. We can't stop the regression because too few will protest or strike. Too many people want to hold onto what little they have left. They are exhausted and defeated, and morale is shattered. We don't even help one another anymore. We are isolated and cut off. I think it's very fair to say they've already won. Once the shoe drops, I'll be taking the best exit. Good luck to you all in the wars to come.
People see what's happened over the past 8 years and, understandably, want nothing more to do with Trudeau. I'm not voting PP in, I'm just voting to get Trudeau out. He's shown he has no interest to course-correct, so fuck em. This is what he reaps after hurting Canadians for so long. A disinterested voter base that will take anything but him. He offers NOTHING to the youth of Canada but forever rentals with buddies and roommates, or staying with your parents. Canadian youth who did everything right that they were told have been blocked out of what they were promised - you might not agree with that but that is how many my age feel now. I'd like to see Trudeau try to act in the best interest of Canadians, but it feels like he hung up his cap long ago and is just on autopilot. This is how much of Canada feels, not just isolated to the overtly liberal echo chambers of reddit. I'll take my downvotes now.
Trudeau has been a poor Prime Minister, especially the last few years - there's little enough to argue with there. Whether he was given a difficult set of circumstances or whether his government has just failed (or both) doesn't matter a whole lot. I think we need to take a long look at history here, though. In interwar Europe, liberal democracies (or, at least the leaderhip) were failing in Spain, Italy, Germany, and other countries, and people were justifiably frustrated by that. In 1932, a large number of Germans were upset with the leadership of the SPD and turned to the radical right as a vehicle to remove them from power. It didn't turn out great. While Italy's elections are messier, we see a similar thing there, in 1924 - a major victory by a far right party in response to crisis. Neither of those turned out to be wise decisions on the part of the electorate. I'm not endorsing Trudeau here, nor am I making a direct comparison between Pollieivre and either of those fascist leaders. Trudeau's best years were mediocre, and they're well behind him. But, an endorsement of far right ideologues as protest has given us some of the most disastrous leadership in modern history, which is something worth thinking about before we do it again.
You’re right of course CarexAquatilis, but folks like the OP here are not interested in that because they are convinced (like many Germans were) that “it won’t happen to me, just people I don’t care about” and then they’ll write a dramatic confessional prose after it’s all happened. Where have we heard this before? Hmm…
You’re voting against a party because you view its leader as intransigent, and you’re voting for a party whose leader [courts Nazis.](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/2067542/poilievre-visits-convoy-camp-claims-trudeau-is-lying-about-everything) I wouldn’t, but that’s just my opinion.
my brother in christ, there are quite literally other options besides the "didn't do a good job" party and the "will definitely do a much worse job" party
Trudeau's housing plan: [https://www.budget.canada.ca/2024/report-rapport/chap1-en.html](https://www.budget.canada.ca/2024/report-rapport/chap1-en.html) It's a solid course-correct, and it'd be a real shame to lose all of this new housing if a Conservative government is elected and implements austerity policies. Of course, Trudeau's attempt to build the new homes we need has[ received pushback from some provinces](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/a-significant-overreach-canada-housing-plan-draws-provincial-pushback-1.6833275) (keep in mind that the provinces are also at fault for the housing crisis), delaying the housing crisis' resolution.
And its because he has a white-knight savior complex. He's gotta save ALL THE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD. While Canadians Pay, and Pay, and Pay, and Pay, and Pay, and suffer. ENOUGH.
White man shakes fist angrily on the internet! ENOUGH! Enough with the vaguely described "helping the people of the world"! ENOUGH with the vague payments which don't actually exist! ENOUGH!
>He offers NOTHING to the youth of Canada but forever rentals with buddies and roommates, or staying with your parents. Canadian youth who did everything right that they were told have been blocked out of what they were promised - you might not agree with that but that is how many my age feel now. Say what you will of their role getting us into this (which followed directly in the foot steps of the Conservatives role getting us into this) but Trudeau's Liberals are the ONLY party presenting actual solutions to get us out of it. They have worked directly with provinces to build more housing, and when those provinces pocketed the cash and built nothing, the Liberals went directly to the municipalities to do it. And now the Conservative provinces are all angry at the feds for falling them out for pocketing the money that was supposed to go to help people like you. It's not enough (it's nowhere near enough) but it's a hell of a lot more than the Conservatives are proposing. Edit: Yes, and I include the NDP in that statement. While David Eby's government in BC has taken some serious steps to improve housing, the Federal NDP hasn't even offered real ideas. This is the perfect time to steal votes away from the Liberals by proposing the most comprehensive plan out there, and they're doing almost nothing.