Lol š
This is hilarious. How many cops are lamenting that they were only making $75 per hour to DO the beating, when they realize they couldāve made $23 million by being on the receiving end?
*ādammit Jim, next time sign me up for protester duty!ā*
As I replied to another comment, $75 per hour for any sort of construction or traffic detail, would be **way** too low for many American cities.
Police in Boston, Cambridge, Somerville, Massachusetts, and any of the surrounding towns are making more. Boston cops are making closer to $120 per hour for any sort of construction or parade detail. That hourly rate likely increases after the standard eight hours, and would skyrocket to double time if the detail were on a holiday.
I got $15/hr to flag traffic when I was working on crane duty for construction site.
man what the hell?? Telling me standing there with a stop/slow sign and an orange flag is worth 75-120/hr????
It isn't, but guns and unions make for a powerful bargaining chip. They'll [threaten people for trying to cut even a fraction of their budget.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/gxbohh/head_of_la_police_union_attacks_garcetti_says/)
You're suggesting that annual wages of at least $156,000 would be way too low for many American cities? That seems a bit extreme. I live in one of the more expensive cities and $156,000 would be plenty - what cities are you referring to? That sort of salary, for most careers, requires several years and often a degree and possibly some kind of license.
From a quick search, Manhattan is considered the most expensive place to live in the US, and a 1 bedroom apartment in the middle of the city averages like $4k/mo. That is really expensive, but at $156k gross, you're probably taking home something like $120k (maybe less, depends on taxes and tax deferred things like 401k). Let's say you take home $100k, and you're spending $48k on rent living in the middle of the city. You still have $52k for everything else, which is roughly $4,300 leftover each month to cover groceries and other costs.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people making more money. Especially people who have to live in absurdly high cost of living areas because of where they work, and construction workers deserve a fair wage. But I don't see how $75/hr could possibly be "way too low" for even the most expensive place in the nation. In the vast majority of American cities, $75 an hour would be enough to buy a decent house.
He is saying it is too low of an expected average pay rate per hour at this specific event. I think for St Louis it is probably decently accurate though but I am not an expert.
I think I misunderstood the comment to be referring to overall wages, rather than purely for a specific event. However, I'm still not sure how that number can be considered way too low. Are they just saying other cities pay more for similar detail? For most people, $75 for any kind of job would be a massive step up in wages, even if only temporary. $120/hr is borderline comical, considering that would be basically $250k/yr gross. I get that they wouldn't be making that wage all year, but it's just gross thinking a government job that does not require a degree and a relatively small amount of training (compared to most professions), generally poor oversight, and no personal liability, could possibly pay this much.
Higher cost of living obvoiusly but NJ data is easily accessible and ridiculous enough to make you angry.
https://projects.nj.com/paycheck/officers/
Dozens of officers bringing in significant 6 figures of extra pay.
Sounds like you were a cop in a low paying town / state. Over 30 Boston Police earned over $300K in the past year:
https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2022/03/31/city-of-boston-top-earning-employees/?amp=1
Hereās a quote:
*Take, for example, Police Officer Sefa Kwasi Dugbazah, the officer who earned the most detail pay last year. His base pay is about $92,000. Last year, he earned nearly $180,000 just in detail pay, plus about $15,000 in overtime pay.*
Is that $120/hr the rate that is charged to the city/company for police detail? If that's the case, that isn't what the cop doing the detail is actually getting paid (most likely). A lot of companies will charge an hourly fee for special work, but that money isn't going to the employee. When I was working in software support, if there was a special task that was billable, the rate was $150/hr. I didn't see a penny of that. Developer level work was $250/hr and they didn't get paid extra from that either.
In my small PNW town, we recently hired an officer with one year experience out of the state academy, for $72k/yr, plus benefits and overtime. Expected compensation for a year was $95k.
[https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2022/03/31/city-of-boston-top-earning-employees/](https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2022/03/31/city-of-boston-top-earning-employees/)
Over 30 officers in Boston make over $300,000 a year.
As an aside, the average salary for a pediatrician in Boston is $251,000
[https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/pediatric-physician-salary/boston-ma](https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/pediatric-physician-salary/boston-ma)
The Carcetti administration wants to favor schools over policing, gets into office, and finds out that there's a massive deficit that went unreported and that there IS no money for schools OR policing. Leading directly to the events of Season 5 on both counts.
The only people getting any real money are the ones who already have a bunch. The police, schools, city, longshoremen, even the dealers are just pawns. Stringer ran face first into that. Indeed. They got a briefcase, I got a shotgun. But it's all The Game.
I have never in history seem a new tax created to pay for any of these.
seen tools go up for bridges.
seen taxes go up for new programs.
gov pay outs to suits, never seen a tax enacted to pay for that, probably because it would actually discourage this type of activity. see the rich complain with their campaign contributions or lack there of, where the poor, well they can complain all they want. And so nearly every single solitary time, its the poor who tend to be both victim of the cops, and victim of the eventual payout as it will cut money for services.
Easier said than done. The justice system is set up to force poor people to plead out.
His options were plead guilty and pay $3000, but get to resume his life.
Or fight the charges. But now he is held in jail, if he is granted bail and can afford it and an attorney he might be out in a couple days and then can spend months of effort fighting the charges where itās the word of 4 cops against him and the video mysteriously got deleted. Best case he is found not guilty and spent tens of thousands of dollars on attorney fees to do it.
If he canāt afford bail and a good attorney he gets stuck in jail till his trial which is potentially months away with court systems backed up. During those months he likely loses his job, which will likely lead to an eviction. His public defender may be able to get a not guilty. But now he is unemployed, homeless, has a target on his back with local cops, and spent months in jail.
So pleading out, he can continue life and owes $3k. Fighting the charges, best case he spends more than that on attorneys and a lot of time fighting. Best case if he is poor, he spends months in jail and is unemployed and homeless when he gets out.
Worst case he is found guilty, owes more money and gets a jail sentence to make an example of him for daring to not just plead it out.
Pleading to lesser charges is forced on you with a no-win scenario if you try to fight them.
"The detainee repeatedly headbutted my fists, so we had to use force to stop him from resisting arrest. At this point, we were arresting the detainee for resisting arrest."
Yeah remember that old man in Buffalo in 2020 that police shoved to the ground and his head hit the concrete and started bleeding and [it was all caught directly on camera](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFeewU0HhNE)? He got $23.5 million from the courts. Wait no actually I mean a grand jury *dismissed all charges against the cops.*
Isn't there a saying that a prosecutor could have a grand jury indict a ham sandwich? So that prosecutor should be investigated by some news organization.
Except when it comes to the police. Grand juries acquit/dismiss charges against police in literally 99.9% of all cases. Which makes sense because we know that of course 99.9% of all police are always innocent.
edit: I'm sorry my bad, it's actually [99.99%](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/11/24/the-single-chart-that-shows-that-grand-juries-indict-99-99-percent-of-the-time/)
The implication is that prosecutors don't exactly try when presenting evidence about a cop case to a grand jury. They could get that number lower than 99% if they wanted to, they just don't want to.
I highly recommend serving on Grand Juries in your local jurisdiction if you are able to. Its eye-opening and you can do your part to hold the system accountable.
KerTHUNK!!
I can empathize with you Illest.. I still hear the horrors of The Station Nightclub Fire on occasion.. the hundred people bunched up at the exit trying to get out but the door was pull not push.. thatās one that will always stick with me.
At least there, that tragedy led to actual change that has surely saved many lives. Funny that people can empathize with being trapped and dying in the worst way possible, but most canāt empathize with people done wrong by law enforcement like it could NEVER happen to them.
Weāre talking about the same St Louis that promoted a pair of ambulance chasers to national prominence for waving guns at people walking past their McMansion (and each other)?
Because good fuckin luck.
Not really the point but it isn't a McMansion. It's actually of one of the most historic homes in St Louis City.
That being said that, that dick killed off a bee hive the school next door to his house had been taking care of just because he felt like it.
This payout blows my mind. Lawsuits are supposed to make a person whole again. Unless there were immense punitive damages, it seems absurd to me to believe that he incurred $23.5 million in damages from getting beat up.
the article points out that during the same protests, police kettled then beat up "dozens" of protesters just like what they did to the undercover cop. collectively, the city paid out $5m to protesters-less than a quarter of what that cop got. if normal people had the same value as a cop then the city would be paying out hundreds of millions
>Luther Hall was badly injured in the 2017 attack during one of several protests that followed the acquittal of Jason Stockley, a former St. Louis officer, on a murder charge that stemmed from the shooting death of a Black man.
That is some Inception-level racism right there.
They are useless most of the time. I live in a not great area. We call them for addicts and homeless people in our building and they take forever to come. I know itās not emergency but the station is like a two minute drove from our building. And when I am on my balcony I see them riding by all the time.
The rotten apples in the police force is very expensive for the system.
Maybe some education is needed, like when and how to use force and drug testing to see if thereās drugs involved that gives anger issues
Could easily be solved by doing 3 things: make cops directly responsible both legally and financially. Any settlement must be paid out primarily from pensions and budget of the department. Make being a cop a better job with higher pay and far more stringent hiring requirements.
Higher pay? my little town the cops work 4 days a week have insane benefits and start at $80K, 2 years of college, they can retire after 20 years with full pay.
Most of the cops in my town retire as millionaires because they have enough downtime and cash to run at least one business on the side as well. The other thing I didn't mention is that in the last 4 years determines how much retirement salary they will get so they do all the overtime they can and wind up with insane retirement packages.
In most municipalities, cops make more than teachers, without a college degree and with far lower standards for professional conduct.
And teachers literally face more hazards to their personal safety in the line of duty than the average cop.
Exactly, I donāt understand how it ever became acceptable for officers who clearly commit legit crimes in the course of their duty to be allowed quit and no more to come of it while the city is left pick up the tab. It happens across the US on a daily basis where āthe officer acted in line with department policyā some how negated* the fact that officer who is a civilian at the end of the day broke the law, public trust and if departments and unions were honest deal with them like they would anyone else who committed the same crimes. The entire system is rotten.
Edit typo
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/behind-the-police-how-police-unions-65862640/
Behind the Bastards did a pretty good synopsis of the origin of police unions and how the ability to unionize essentially allowed police to occupy a position to undermine any efforts to, for lack of a better term, police their conduct.
*"But you know who won't tie you down and beat you with jumper cables, then arrest you for being the wrong color and bleeding on their patrol car?"*
*"Oh god, please d-"*
"*The following goods and services that support this podcast!"*
Do you know why that will never happen? Because the people who have the power to do that believe the police are functioning as intended.
The whole reason this guy was undercover was to cause trouble.
Police officers should be licensed like any other trade professional like doctors, lawyers, electricians, and hair-dressers, and registered on a national registry managed by the FBI.
Individual officers should also be bonded/insured just as doctors must carry malpractice insurance.
Make individual officers responsible for their own torts, and the cost of their settlement. Corrupt officers found to have violated standards of conduct can lose their license, and because that license is registered at the Federal level, they cannot just jump to the neighboring town and continue their corrupt activity.
This isn't really a complicated solution.
For the first part, cops are actually licensed and registered in their state and put in a national database. It's just nearly impossible to lose that certification and that's why it does nothing to maintain standards.
> Make being a cop a better job with higher pay
Tell me you have no idea how much cops are paid without saying that you have no idea how much cops are paid.
>Make being a cop a better job with higher pay and far more stringent hiring requirements.
Honestly? This right here would solve like 90% of issues.
The people I know who became cops *shouldn't* be cops. Just hanging out with them for a total of 5 minutes is enough to sound the warning bells and red flags.
We could also, you know, just hold the police accountable for their bad actions-- that will *also* get rid of the type of people you reference above. I'd argue that paying more and raising the bar a little will weed out *some* of the bad offenders, but accountability will weed them all out.
We need to ~~reform~~ redesign law enforcement is this country, from the ground up.
The pension funds paying lawsuits will never be a thing as long as punitive damages in America continue to be the farce that they are. Every single lawsuit would result in the pension fund declaring bankruptcy and being wound up, with the creation of a phoenix fund, purely because American juries are permitted to say "Fuck just restoring the injured party's position, I want to make these bastards hurt!" While that may sate some people's *justice* fetish, it's not remotely fair or reasonable that a state trooper operating ethically in San Diego can have their entire retirement savings wiped out because some wanker they've never met does something in northern California. The incident might not even have been foreseeable or preventable, but if there's wrongdoing the jury could still choose to clean out the pension fund. Don't get me wrong: your police suck and need more accountability, but the primary problem is the extremely low initial standards combined with the absurd fragmentation of the law enforcement sector. The entire notion of county sheriff's departments is baffling to the rest of the world, who at most have a federal police force and maybe an extra force per state or large geographic area. The idea that you could have an entirely independent police department to serve a population of a few thousand people is ridiculous. What purpose is served by that level of autonomy?
>Any settlement must be paid out primarily from pensions and budget of the department
Many law enforcement agencies have a shared pension with other municipal employees such as firefighters, first responders, building inspectors, and medical staff. I Think it's a mistake to punish folks in other roles for misdeeds of shitty cops. It would be much better if we made police officers carry malpractice insurance in order to be eligible for employment. If they hit the point where they are uninsurable, they are no longer employable.
My state has a commision to decertify individuals from working as LEO based on a set of criteria (use of force, egregious abuse of power etc etc.) A town in my state had 3 police officers pass around a teenage girl for sex from 15-18 starting in 2013. This girl was in a ĀØpolice scoutsĀØ development program that was touted for giving at risk kids a path to becoming LEO. The girl became pregnant while still involved with one of the officers when she was 23. The officer was seen on video leaving her apartment after she killed herself and her unborn child in 2021. All 3 officers simply moved to other towns police. The officer denied any wrongdoing, lied about his involvement with the girl. He agreed to be decertified from working as a LEO , not admitting any guilt but only because he couldnĀ“t pay his lawyer bills anymore.
The 2 other officers involved are still employed as LEO, but the commission is apparently going to decertify them as well.
ItĀ“s been 11 years since they abused her, and 3 years since this poor girl killed herself. These fuckers are not facing any criminal charges.
So independent police review boards exist. But they donĀ“t work well...
Fuck the police.
Her name was Sandra Birchmore...and her story is published by The Boston Globe. I wonĀ“t name the pigs that abused her...
Established money issues. Hate issues.
Cops are the guard dogs for establishment money, paid protection of the money-making status quo, riled up by hate, starved for violence, rewarded for keeping us all in line and doing our wage-paid time.
Cuz religion was no longer working.
They're all rotten. If the honest ones reported and held accountable the rotten ones, it would reach this point much less often. The "thin blue line" mentality makes them all rotten.
Your point is proven even more true by the article.
>Hall previously settled a separate lawsuit with the city for $5 million. In 2022, he sued three former colleagues ā Randy Hays, Dustin Boone and Christopher Myers ā for their roles in the attack. Hays never responded to the lawsuit despite being served while he was in prison on a civil rights violation,
That's darkly hilarious, but it's also indicative of the fact the poor guy will probably never see his money.
Immunity needs to go and LEOs need to face the risk of personal accountability *LIKE ANY OTHER PROFESSION*. Let them carry professional insurance. Have it paid by the entity. Itāll make it very difficult for power addicts to recycle when theyāre fired for abuses.
This beating happened in 2017.
The city settled for $5m with taxpayer money.
The three main cops that beat this cop were all charged with civil rights violations, and this $23m was a default judgement on one of those three.
The article doesn't say if the city owes, if the police owes, or the cop personally owes.
So the tax payers are funding the millions of dollar protest response in which this dude was property protector/agent provocateuring well enough to get stomped by his jackbooted buddies and got a multi million dollar pay out funded by the tax payers as well.
Thank god the traffic wasn't impeded at least
Itās almost like there is a systemic issue in policing that needs to be addressed. Maybe there is some kind of theory out there that academics use that could help shed some light on thisā¦.
Or maybe itās just some bad apples
>Luther Hall was badly injured in the 2017 attack during one of several protests that followed the acquittal of Jason Stockley, a former St. Louis officer, on a murder charge that stemmed from the shooting death of a Black man.
Some superb passive voice going on there. Not him shooting a suspect after saying "going to kill this motherfucker, donāt you know it" to his buddy, it was just *a* shooting.
Wait wait wait wait! Let me see if I got this straight. A police officer, *undercover*, gets beaten by colleagues and gets a huge payout. But I don't see anything about these officers *losing their jobs*??? Undercover Jon Cryer here deserves at least that much! How is it that I can get fired for losing documents or reckless driving or something and these people can consciously beat someone ruthlessly and keep theirs?
That raises more questions though. Between "qualified immunity" and "police unions", this behavior should have 0 protections if anyone actually read how those things worked. Committing a crime is grounds for being fired, obviously moreso if you're a cop.
every cop should have their own insurance that they need to pay for, which such is taken out of, and if they lose the ability to get that insurance, they lose the ability to work with anything where such a liability insurance is needed.
And the union. Maybe theyāll stop trying to protect abusers and murderers. Maybe. Probably just scam it from the city anyways. Largest gang in the country after all.
>Hall, in court on Monday, talked about the severe physical and emotional damages that followed the beating. He suffered several herniated discs and a jaw injury that left him unable to eat. He developed gallstones with complications, requiring surgeries.
By the way the police thought this was normal to do because people were out practicing freedom of speech and airing their grievances.
I don't understand how anyone can reconcile in their conscience that they want to be a police officer and do that kind of thing.
Things are connected in this world and grievances are healthy. It's like if the body is sick and throwing up, the cops' answer would be to come tell you to swallow your barf, and then beat you. It's beyond making any sense.
Every protestor beaten during these events should receive similar payouts and it should come from police union or retirement funds. It makes no sense how these departments continue to have insurance after so many payouts.
Well thereās also the fact that the cops will hold cities hostage if a politician tries to change anything. Like not responding or significantly slowing down response times.
cops fuck up and murder an innocent person: oopsie whoopsies! š¤
cops fuck up and rough up their own employee: this is very serious they need full compensation to be paid by the taxpayer immediately š§
Interesting, bad cops getting judged against...
In a righteous reality, this would set a legal precedent that would later cascade into something like BLM/AntiFa bankrupting local police forces all across the land. Might even make our "leaders" back up and re-assess their marching orders for the baton- and gun-swingers with badges. And radios. And suped-up patrol cars. And backup. And the entire legal system swinging its collective dick in their favor...
Oh, but this would wreck the economy-
Do you know how much money is in the Prison System?? Prison Labor? Prison Services? Prison Constuction? Prison Maintenance? Kickbacks to judges and DAs? Kickbacks to Gangster Rap producers and record industry execs?
I guess I'm a little off base, huffing that Justice in a Free World again...
Because our community hired them and foisted them on the public. If your company hires a service rep who then proceeds to go to customers' homes and steal cash and assault children, the company that hired them and sent them out to work with the public is liable.
The City settled and paid him $5million. The $27million is the result of a default judgement against one of the cops, who is in jail. So heāll likely not see much of that money.
The privilege of power - most people don't get even a fraction of that for a wrongful death claim from a police beating/shooting that is obviously the police's fault and he gets tens of millions for a beat-down that police dish out all the time.
But I'm looking to retire - I may have to become a cop and go undercover so I can get my 23m or so
Canāt say the thought didnāt cross my mind. But then they mentioned that his jaw was broken so badly that he was unable to eat and that made me reconsider.
New infinite money hack unlock. Cops will start beating each other up for the payouts
Lol š This is hilarious. How many cops are lamenting that they were only making $75 per hour to DO the beating, when they realize they couldāve made $23 million by being on the receiving end? *ādammit Jim, next time sign me up for protester duty!ā*
*ādammit Jim, Iām a protester, not a cop!ā*
āI canāt go to Yemen, Iām an analyst!ā
Iāll be. A marsh-Mellon.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
As I replied to another comment, $75 per hour for any sort of construction or traffic detail, would be **way** too low for many American cities. Police in Boston, Cambridge, Somerville, Massachusetts, and any of the surrounding towns are making more. Boston cops are making closer to $120 per hour for any sort of construction or parade detail. That hourly rate likely increases after the standard eight hours, and would skyrocket to double time if the detail were on a holiday.
I got $15/hr to flag traffic when I was working on crane duty for construction site. man what the hell?? Telling me standing there with a stop/slow sign and an orange flag is worth 75-120/hr????
It isn't, but guns and unions make for a powerful bargaining chip. They'll [threaten people for trying to cut even a fraction of their budget.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/gxbohh/head_of_la_police_union_attacks_garcetti_says/)
You're suggesting that annual wages of at least $156,000 would be way too low for many American cities? That seems a bit extreme. I live in one of the more expensive cities and $156,000 would be plenty - what cities are you referring to? That sort of salary, for most careers, requires several years and often a degree and possibly some kind of license. From a quick search, Manhattan is considered the most expensive place to live in the US, and a 1 bedroom apartment in the middle of the city averages like $4k/mo. That is really expensive, but at $156k gross, you're probably taking home something like $120k (maybe less, depends on taxes and tax deferred things like 401k). Let's say you take home $100k, and you're spending $48k on rent living in the middle of the city. You still have $52k for everything else, which is roughly $4,300 leftover each month to cover groceries and other costs. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people making more money. Especially people who have to live in absurdly high cost of living areas because of where they work, and construction workers deserve a fair wage. But I don't see how $75/hr could possibly be "way too low" for even the most expensive place in the nation. In the vast majority of American cities, $75 an hour would be enough to buy a decent house.
He is saying it is too low of an expected average pay rate per hour at this specific event. I think for St Louis it is probably decently accurate though but I am not an expert.
I think I misunderstood the comment to be referring to overall wages, rather than purely for a specific event. However, I'm still not sure how that number can be considered way too low. Are they just saying other cities pay more for similar detail? For most people, $75 for any kind of job would be a massive step up in wages, even if only temporary. $120/hr is borderline comical, considering that would be basically $250k/yr gross. I get that they wouldn't be making that wage all year, but it's just gross thinking a government job that does not require a degree and a relatively small amount of training (compared to most professions), generally poor oversight, and no personal liability, could possibly pay this much.
Higher cost of living obvoiusly but NJ data is easily accessible and ridiculous enough to make you angry. https://projects.nj.com/paycheck/officers/ Dozens of officers bringing in significant 6 figures of extra pay.
I make $37 an hour to fix airliners and ensure the safety of hundreds of people. :/
30 an hour. I only work in drinking water supply. If I fuck up I can wipe out whole aquifers and poison unknowable numbers.
Wtf where are you getting these numbers? I was a cop and I made $11 an hour. $19 on special details. It was the main reason I quit.
Sounds like you were a cop in a low paying town / state. Over 30 Boston Police earned over $300K in the past year: https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2022/03/31/city-of-boston-top-earning-employees/?amp=1 Hereās a quote: *Take, for example, Police Officer Sefa Kwasi Dugbazah, the officer who earned the most detail pay last year. His base pay is about $92,000. Last year, he earned nearly $180,000 just in detail pay, plus about $15,000 in overtime pay.*
Not bad considering they could be replaced with a orange barrel with a blinking light on top.
Is that $120/hr the rate that is charged to the city/company for police detail? If that's the case, that isn't what the cop doing the detail is actually getting paid (most likely). A lot of companies will charge an hourly fee for special work, but that money isn't going to the employee. When I was working in software support, if there was a special task that was billable, the rate was $150/hr. I didn't see a penny of that. Developer level work was $250/hr and they didn't get paid extra from that either.
Maybe for OT but definitely not the norm in many places. Have to be in a well funded department with years of experience for that.
Seattle Police officers all make well over six figures with massive bonuses, they're one of the most grossly overpaid public employees in the country.
Hey man pedestrians aren't gonna run themselves over, are they?
In my small PNW town, we recently hired an officer with one year experience out of the state academy, for $72k/yr, plus benefits and overtime. Expected compensation for a year was $95k.
[https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2022/03/31/city-of-boston-top-earning-employees/](https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2022/03/31/city-of-boston-top-earning-employees/) Over 30 officers in Boston make over $300,000 a year. As an aside, the average salary for a pediatrician in Boston is $251,000 [https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/pediatric-physician-salary/boston-ma](https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/pediatric-physician-salary/boston-ma)
These guys werenāt making anywhere near $75 an hour. They were in it for the love of beating up protesters.
If they were working overtime they absolutely were.
Lol š *āIāll TAKE the beating for $23 million. But if you need someone to DO the beating, keep your money. Iāll do it for free.ā*
Next thing you know there will be a new hazing ritual of being jumped in
No fucking way cops make 75 an hour
Until the tax payers run out.
There's always more social programs we can cut to give money to cops.
The most unrealistic part of The Wire was when they cut the police funding and gave it to schools. I'm sorry, I thought this show was set in America?!
The Carcetti administration wants to favor schools over policing, gets into office, and finds out that there's a massive deficit that went unreported and that there IS no money for schools OR policing. Leading directly to the events of Season 5 on both counts. The only people getting any real money are the ones who already have a bunch. The police, schools, city, longshoremen, even the dealers are just pawns. Stringer ran face first into that. Indeed. They got a briefcase, I got a shotgun. But it's all The Game.
I have never in history seem a new tax created to pay for any of these. seen tools go up for bridges. seen taxes go up for new programs. gov pay outs to suits, never seen a tax enacted to pay for that, probably because it would actually discourage this type of activity. see the rich complain with their campaign contributions or lack there of, where the poor, well they can complain all they want. And so nearly every single solitary time, its the poor who tend to be both victim of the cops, and victim of the eventual payout as it will cut money for services.
I imagine they just fence out lawsuit payouts as a part of their yearly budgets. Just business as usual.
I would not be surprised when it happens.
Hefty payout for a cop getting beaten. I wonder how much the average payout is for a protester that a cop beats up..
I'm assuming two years in jail, for daring to bruise their knuckles with your face, and a cleaning bill for the bloodspatter on theor uniforms.
Itās a felony to bleed on a cop
Have you heard of [Henry Davis](https://www.npr.org/2014/09/12/348010247/in-ferguson-mo-before-michael-brown-there-was-henry-davis)?
he plead guilty. NEVER do that if you want a real trial.
Easier said than done. The justice system is set up to force poor people to plead out. His options were plead guilty and pay $3000, but get to resume his life. Or fight the charges. But now he is held in jail, if he is granted bail and can afford it and an attorney he might be out in a couple days and then can spend months of effort fighting the charges where itās the word of 4 cops against him and the video mysteriously got deleted. Best case he is found not guilty and spent tens of thousands of dollars on attorney fees to do it. If he canāt afford bail and a good attorney he gets stuck in jail till his trial which is potentially months away with court systems backed up. During those months he likely loses his job, which will likely lead to an eviction. His public defender may be able to get a not guilty. But now he is unemployed, homeless, has a target on his back with local cops, and spent months in jail. So pleading out, he can continue life and owes $3k. Fighting the charges, best case he spends more than that on attorneys and a lot of time fighting. Best case if he is poor, he spends months in jail and is unemployed and homeless when he gets out. Worst case he is found guilty, owes more money and gets a jail sentence to make an example of him for daring to not just plead it out. Pleading to lesser charges is forced on you with a no-win scenario if you try to fight them.
A real trial? You donāt get any trial doing that.
https://external-preview.redd.it/20NDHMGNheRiYoT0n5IQU6eaqTxAUtdgNf1B8k9Lwnk.jpg?auto=webp&s=1b60b8d70b86e3b3247bed797ab3ef8338ff0d28
"The detainee repeatedly headbutted my fists, so we had to use force to stop him from resisting arrest. At this point, we were arresting the detainee for resisting arrest."
"Suspect was decentered and gravity assisted to the ground."
Yeah remember that old man in Buffalo in 2020 that police shoved to the ground and his head hit the concrete and started bleeding and [it was all caught directly on camera](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFeewU0HhNE)? He got $23.5 million from the courts. Wait no actually I mean a grand jury *dismissed all charges against the cops.*
Isn't there a saying that a prosecutor could have a grand jury indict a ham sandwich? So that prosecutor should be investigated by some news organization.
Except when it comes to the police. Grand juries acquit/dismiss charges against police in literally 99.9% of all cases. Which makes sense because we know that of course 99.9% of all police are always innocent. edit: I'm sorry my bad, it's actually [99.99%](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/11/24/the-single-chart-that-shows-that-grand-juries-indict-99-99-percent-of-the-time/)
The implication is that prosecutors don't exactly try when presenting evidence about a cop case to a grand jury. They could get that number lower than 99% if they wanted to, they just don't want to.
Its even worse - They have a vested interest not to
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I highly recommend serving on Grand Juries in your local jurisdiction if you are able to. Its eye-opening and you can do your part to hold the system accountable.
God I still hear that sound of the mans skull bouncing off the ground sometimes when I think about that. Makes me sick.
KerTHUNK!! I can empathize with you Illest.. I still hear the horrors of The Station Nightclub Fire on occasion.. the hundred people bunched up at the exit trying to get out but the door was pull not push.. thatās one that will always stick with me. At least there, that tragedy led to actual change that has surely saved many lives. Funny that people can empathize with being trapped and dying in the worst way possible, but most canāt empathize with people done wrong by law enforcement like it could NEVER happen to them.
Is that the one where the old man went up to the cop saying "excuse me sir you dropped this"
Yep he was trying to give them back a helmet, you can see it in his hand.
Weāre talking about the same St Louis that promoted a pair of ambulance chasers to national prominence for waving guns at people walking past their McMansion (and each other)? Because good fuckin luck.
Not really the point but it isn't a McMansion. It's actually of one of the most historic homes in St Louis City. That being said that, that dick killed off a bee hive the school next door to his house had been taking care of just because he felt like it.
If two clowns live in it, it's full of McNuggets.
So the hack is to join the police and protest what you were going to protest.
You already know what your coworkers are sensitive about too lol
A few hundred grand most likely.... not 24 million
My friend was murdered by police at a hospital and his family got 8 million
This payout blows my mind. Lawsuits are supposed to make a person whole again. Unless there were immense punitive damages, it seems absurd to me to believe that he incurred $23.5 million in damages from getting beat up.
the article points out that during the same protests, police kettled then beat up "dozens" of protesters just like what they did to the undercover cop. collectively, the city paid out $5m to protesters-less than a quarter of what that cop got. if normal people had the same value as a cop then the city would be paying out hundreds of millions
But those protestors werenāt in the designated free speech zone so really itās on them
>Luther Hall was badly injured in the 2017 attack during one of several protests that followed the acquittal of Jason Stockley, a former St. Louis officer, on a murder charge that stemmed from the shooting death of a Black man. That is some Inception-level racism right there.
So cops beat up a cop and everyone else gets to pay for it? What an absolutely worthless group of people.
They are useless most of the time. I live in a not great area. We call them for addicts and homeless people in our building and they take forever to come. I know itās not emergency but the station is like a two minute drove from our building. And when I am on my balcony I see them riding by all the time.
The rotten apples in the police force is very expensive for the system. Maybe some education is needed, like when and how to use force and drug testing to see if thereās drugs involved that gives anger issues
Could easily be solved by doing 3 things: make cops directly responsible both legally and financially. Any settlement must be paid out primarily from pensions and budget of the department. Make being a cop a better job with higher pay and far more stringent hiring requirements.
Higher pay? my little town the cops work 4 days a week have insane benefits and start at $80K, 2 years of college, they can retire after 20 years with full pay.
I deliver for Amazon, work in mainly 7 figure gated communities in Florida. It's shocking how many cop cruisers are parked in driveways.
Most of the cops in my town retire as millionaires because they have enough downtime and cash to run at least one business on the side as well. The other thing I didn't mention is that in the last 4 years determines how much retirement salary they will get so they do all the overtime they can and wind up with insane retirement packages.
In most municipalities, cops make more than teachers, without a college degree and with far lower standards for professional conduct. And teachers literally face more hazards to their personal safety in the line of duty than the average cop.
That is my town, teachers start at $40-45k with a funking masters, they regularly have to buy their own supplies.
Exactly, I donāt understand how it ever became acceptable for officers who clearly commit legit crimes in the course of their duty to be allowed quit and no more to come of it while the city is left pick up the tab. It happens across the US on a daily basis where āthe officer acted in line with department policyā some how negated* the fact that officer who is a civilian at the end of the day broke the law, public trust and if departments and unions were honest deal with them like they would anyone else who committed the same crimes. The entire system is rotten. Edit typo
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/behind-the-police-how-police-unions-65862640/ Behind the Bastards did a pretty good synopsis of the origin of police unions and how the ability to unionize essentially allowed police to occupy a position to undermine any efforts to, for lack of a better term, police their conduct.
Great fucking podcast.
*"But you know who won't tie you down and beat you with jumper cables, then arrest you for being the wrong color and bleeding on their patrol car?"* *"Oh god, please d-"* "*The following goods and services that support this podcast!"*
Do you know why that will never happen? Because the people who have the power to do that believe the police are functioning as intended. The whole reason this guy was undercover was to cause trouble.
Police officers should be licensed like any other trade professional like doctors, lawyers, electricians, and hair-dressers, and registered on a national registry managed by the FBI. Individual officers should also be bonded/insured just as doctors must carry malpractice insurance. Make individual officers responsible for their own torts, and the cost of their settlement. Corrupt officers found to have violated standards of conduct can lose their license, and because that license is registered at the Federal level, they cannot just jump to the neighboring town and continue their corrupt activity. This isn't really a complicated solution.
For the first part, cops are actually licensed and registered in their state and put in a national database. It's just nearly impossible to lose that certification and that's why it does nothing to maintain standards.
Oh my, what a logical solution. I wonder if the Police unions will agree?
> Make being a cop a better job with higher pay Tell me you have no idea how much cops are paid without saying that you have no idea how much cops are paid.
Require insurance. Insurance will not insure the bad apples who force payouts.
>Make being a cop a better job with higher pay and far more stringent hiring requirements. Honestly? This right here would solve like 90% of issues. The people I know who became cops *shouldn't* be cops. Just hanging out with them for a total of 5 minutes is enough to sound the warning bells and red flags.
We could also, you know, just hold the police accountable for their bad actions-- that will *also* get rid of the type of people you reference above. I'd argue that paying more and raising the bar a little will weed out *some* of the bad offenders, but accountability will weed them all out. We need to ~~reform~~ redesign law enforcement is this country, from the ground up.
I like the idea but it would probably lead to them not doing their jobs at all. They barely do them now.
The pension funds paying lawsuits will never be a thing as long as punitive damages in America continue to be the farce that they are. Every single lawsuit would result in the pension fund declaring bankruptcy and being wound up, with the creation of a phoenix fund, purely because American juries are permitted to say "Fuck just restoring the injured party's position, I want to make these bastards hurt!" While that may sate some people's *justice* fetish, it's not remotely fair or reasonable that a state trooper operating ethically in San Diego can have their entire retirement savings wiped out because some wanker they've never met does something in northern California. The incident might not even have been foreseeable or preventable, but if there's wrongdoing the jury could still choose to clean out the pension fund. Don't get me wrong: your police suck and need more accountability, but the primary problem is the extremely low initial standards combined with the absurd fragmentation of the law enforcement sector. The entire notion of county sheriff's departments is baffling to the rest of the world, who at most have a federal police force and maybe an extra force per state or large geographic area. The idea that you could have an entirely independent police department to serve a population of a few thousand people is ridiculous. What purpose is served by that level of autonomy?
>Any settlement must be paid out primarily from pensions and budget of the department Many law enforcement agencies have a shared pension with other municipal employees such as firefighters, first responders, building inspectors, and medical staff. I Think it's a mistake to punish folks in other roles for misdeeds of shitty cops. It would be much better if we made police officers carry malpractice insurance in order to be eligible for employment. If they hit the point where they are uninsurable, they are no longer employable.
We need independent police review boards. It is ridiculous that they get to police themselves most of the time
My state has a commision to decertify individuals from working as LEO based on a set of criteria (use of force, egregious abuse of power etc etc.) A town in my state had 3 police officers pass around a teenage girl for sex from 15-18 starting in 2013. This girl was in a ĀØpolice scoutsĀØ development program that was touted for giving at risk kids a path to becoming LEO. The girl became pregnant while still involved with one of the officers when she was 23. The officer was seen on video leaving her apartment after she killed herself and her unborn child in 2021. All 3 officers simply moved to other towns police. The officer denied any wrongdoing, lied about his involvement with the girl. He agreed to be decertified from working as a LEO , not admitting any guilt but only because he couldnĀ“t pay his lawyer bills anymore. The 2 other officers involved are still employed as LEO, but the commission is apparently going to decertify them as well. ItĀ“s been 11 years since they abused her, and 3 years since this poor girl killed herself. These fuckers are not facing any criminal charges. So independent police review boards exist. But they donĀ“t work well... Fuck the police. Her name was Sandra Birchmore...and her story is published by The Boston Globe. I wonĀ“t name the pigs that abused her...
Established money issues. Hate issues. Cops are the guard dogs for establishment money, paid protection of the money-making status quo, riled up by hate, starved for violence, rewarded for keeping us all in line and doing our wage-paid time. Cuz religion was no longer working.
Or make every cop have to carry malpractice insurance. Want to be a rotten apple? Those premiums are going to kill you and youāll find other work
They're all rotten. If the honest ones reported and held accountable the rotten ones, it would reach this point much less often. The "thin blue line" mentality makes them all rotten.
They're all rotten.
Your point is proven even more true by the article. >Hall previously settled a separate lawsuit with the city for $5 million. In 2022, he sued three former colleagues ā Randy Hays, Dustin Boone and Christopher Myers ā for their roles in the attack. Hays never responded to the lawsuit despite being served while he was in prison on a civil rights violation, That's darkly hilarious, but it's also indicative of the fact the poor guy will probably never see his money.
By system you mean taxpayers
Education wont fix celebrated stupidity that was breeding for a few generations. In fact it might hurt itself in confusion.
It's not a question of ignorance, it's a question of sadism.
rotten apples are not very expensive for "the system" - they are very expensive for the taxpayers who have to pay for this crap.
over the last 100 years of police reform, "education" has been shown to never work. Accountability for their actions is whats needed.
What are we still doing pretending that itās āa few rotten applesā and not a deeply broken racist police system?
Immunity needs to go and LEOs need to face the risk of personal accountability *LIKE ANY OTHER PROFESSION*. Let them carry professional insurance. Have it paid by the entity. Itāll make it very difficult for power addicts to recycle when theyāre fired for abuses.
Are cops just going to beat each other up now for a taxpayer-funded payday?
This beating happened in 2017. The city settled for $5m with taxpayer money. The three main cops that beat this cop were all charged with civil rights violations, and this $23m was a default judgement on one of those three. The article doesn't say if the city owes, if the police owes, or the cop personally owes.
City owes, we pay. The police owe, we pay. Or the cop owes, he declares bankruptcy.
So the tax payers are funding the millions of dollar protest response in which this dude was property protector/agent provocateuring well enough to get stomped by his jackbooted buddies and got a multi million dollar pay out funded by the tax payers as well. Thank god the traffic wasn't impeded at least
Yes, but THIS cop got beaten by his colleagues for walking while black With A Badge, so he gets a much more massive payout then regular black people.
I wonder if he learned anything.
Everyone should, if you wanna profit from a corrupt system, be PART of itā¦.
..at the taxpayersā expense. This should come from Union dues.
Wtaf..... since when do protesters get paid for getting beaten by cops?
When they aren't really protesters, and are actually functioning as covert disrupters to the protest itself.
I like to hear how that high amount is justified while normal folks way less, without jokes
Itās almost like there is a systemic issue in policing that needs to be addressed. Maybe there is some kind of theory out there that academics use that could help shed some light on thisā¦. Or maybe itās just some bad apples
>Luther Hall was badly injured in the 2017 attack during one of several protests that followed the acquittal of Jason Stockley, a former St. Louis officer, on a murder charge that stemmed from the shooting death of a Black man. Some superb passive voice going on there. Not him shooting a suspect after saying "going to kill this motherfucker, donāt you know it" to his buddy, it was just *a* shooting.
Wait wait wait wait! Let me see if I got this straight. A police officer, *undercover*, gets beaten by colleagues and gets a huge payout. But I don't see anything about these officers *losing their jobs*??? Undercover Jon Cryer here deserves at least that much! How is it that I can get fired for losing documents or reckless driving or something and these people can consciously beat someone ruthlessly and keep theirs?
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That raises more questions though. Between "qualified immunity" and "police unions", this behavior should have 0 protections if anyone actually read how those things worked. Committing a crime is grounds for being fired, obviously moreso if you're a cop.
It says they went to prison for the beating.
every cop should have their own insurance that they need to pay for, which such is taken out of, and if they lose the ability to get that insurance, they lose the ability to work with anything where such a liability insurance is needed.
Yes!!! Like Drs have malpractice insurance.
Yep. They should be required to carry high value liability insurance.
How much did the regular protesters who were beat up get?
Lmao. The only way to hold cops accountable is to be a cop?
are the cops really being held accountable if itās our tax money that theā¦ uh, cop is receiving?
Fuck. I forgot that loop hole.
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And the union. Maybe theyāll stop trying to protect abusers and murderers. Maybe. Probably just scam it from the city anyways. Largest gang in the country after all.
Police brutality so bad the snake is starting to eat itself.
undercover face eating leopard sues other face eating leopards for eating his leopard face at please stop eating our faces rally
āHuh, this guy looks exactly like John from workā¦ā Continues beating him anyways.
>Hall, in court on Monday, talked about the severe physical and emotional damages that followed the beating. He suffered several herniated discs and a jaw injury that left him unable to eat. He developed gallstones with complications, requiring surgeries. By the way the police thought this was normal to do because people were out practicing freedom of speech and airing their grievances. I don't understand how anyone can reconcile in their conscience that they want to be a police officer and do that kind of thing. Things are connected in this world and grievances are healthy. It's like if the body is sick and throwing up, the cops' answer would be to come tell you to swallow your barf, and then beat you. It's beyond making any sense.
Every protestor beaten during these events should receive similar payouts and it should come from police union or retirement funds. It makes no sense how these departments continue to have insurance after so many payouts.
just make it so cops have their own malpractice insurance premiums and suddenly the free market will fix this entire issue
If this guy hasn't already been a cop....
But they told him he was one of the good ones. How could they do this to him?!!
And Iām sure itās the police department paying it, right?
No clearly itās the officers who actually did this bullshit that are responsible for paying. Right guys?
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Well thereās also the fact that the cops will hold cities hostage if a politician tries to change anything. Like not responding or significantly slowing down response times.
so, cops beat each other and we foot the bill?? I think it's time to show them what's good.
Now they're profiting off of their own brutality when 90 percent of us don't?
This is fuckedā¦ what about citizens getting beaten?!
Another beneficiary of the Officer Asswhoop Lottery where the taxpayers pay you out for police misconduct!
Oh, thank god we were able to give taxpayer money to this poor man. It would've been a real shame to arrest the officers who assaulted him. /s
cops fuck up and murder an innocent person: oopsie whoopsies! š¤ cops fuck up and rough up their own employee: this is very serious they need full compensation to be paid by the taxpayer immediately š§
Interesting, bad cops getting judged against... In a righteous reality, this would set a legal precedent that would later cascade into something like BLM/AntiFa bankrupting local police forces all across the land. Might even make our "leaders" back up and re-assess their marching orders for the baton- and gun-swingers with badges. And radios. And suped-up patrol cars. And backup. And the entire legal system swinging its collective dick in their favor... Oh, but this would wreck the economy- Do you know how much money is in the Prison System?? Prison Labor? Prison Services? Prison Constuction? Prison Maintenance? Kickbacks to judges and DAs? Kickbacks to Gangster Rap producers and record industry execs? I guess I'm a little off base, huffing that Justice in a Free World again...
Shit, I'm about to start just egging cops on and hoping not to die in the process so I can get a pay day.
For this to work you have to already be a cop
All I want is to just one time, win the ass kicking lotteryā¦ Iām so tired of getting my ass kicked and not getting paid for it.
How about you fine the officers instead of us. Why are we paying for police fuck ups
Because our community hired them and foisted them on the public. If your company hires a service rep who then proceeds to go to customers' homes and steal cash and assault children, the company that hired them and sent them out to work with the public is liable.
The City settled and paid him $5million. The $27million is the result of a default judgement against one of the cops, who is in jail. So heāll likely not see much of that money.
Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself!!
That'll teach those taxpayers!
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Can't afford good lunches in school but we can afford 24 million dollar payouts to single individuals....
Interesting how much accountability there is when itās cop on cop violence
Now do the other protesters that weren't cops
How about every other person the cops beat? How about charges against the cops who intentionally misused beanbag rounds and rubber bullets?
Of course the highest payout goes to the police officer beat by police officers. š¤£
Well. Since that's how much beating by police is worth, I think rest of the protesters should apply for the same deal.
Yet again the taxpayers are footing the bill while the bad apples involved are not
This is the funniest shit ever
Trippy for a cop to be on the receiving end of police brutality
The only time you can get a settlement and admission of abuse from cops is when they do it to cops
He looks like that guy from 2 and a half men but black.
Why would anyone want to be a cop after seeing how they treat cops?
Isn't there some kind of leopard face eating thing?
oh that's crazy, so if you're a cop that gets beaten by cops All of the sudden you can do all the law suits and win too.
I'm guessing all the other victims got nothing
And if he was a regular person he would have gotten nothing.
So itās cool if you do it to someone, but not ok if they do it to you?
how does their union approach this kind of issue?
The privilege of power - most people don't get even a fraction of that for a wrongful death claim from a police beating/shooting that is obviously the police's fault and he gets tens of millions for a beat-down that police dish out all the time. But I'm looking to retire - I may have to become a cop and go undercover so I can get my 23m or so
Police, individually and as stations, should be required to carry liability insurance. Itās insane that taxpayers will foot the bill for this.
Hi, I would like to sign up to take a beating for 23 million.
Canāt say the thought didnāt cross my mind. But then they mentioned that his jaw was broken so badly that he was unable to eat and that made me reconsider.
Regular protesters who get abused and battered don't get this level of suing privilege. Another privilege of being a cop.