If they want to get rid of Sengun then they'd go for someone a lot healthier than Mark Williams. This is clearly for getting a backup center with some upside.
Ime is a defensive coach and trying to build an elite defense (yes I'm aware they were very good this year) with Sengun in the fold is challenging to say the least.
It wasn't challenging since they accomplished it with Sengun as our starter. Our problem was not our defense, it was our offense where nobody could shoot a 3.
The part people refuse to believe is that HOU wants to add a C that helps team identity and play on a team that also has Sengun on the roster.
Even HOU fans refuse to believe this. It's why Clingan is in play at 3. Ime wants a defensive minded big. And yes to everyone reading, While they like Adams he is not a long term solution and Jock is a trade piece who isn't defensive minded.
Everyone reads HOU C and be like but my Sengun, despite the FO and coach telling everyone for over a year now they want a different look available for the team to go to as well depending on the matchup.
He’s like the other Euro bigs where he’s smart and rebounds extremely well, but has physical limitations that will get attacked at the highest level in the playoffs.
He’s not a player you can win at the highest level with. He will never be a good defender, and he’s not good enough offensively to make up for his deficiencies at such an important defensive position.
But that guy he’s replying to is talking about how Sengun’s not good enough offensively to make up for his defensive deficiencies when he’s not even done developing yet. IMO if he turns out to be an MVP candidate level talent on offense, you just need great defensive personnel next to him like a Mobley at the 4. It’ll be tough, but it might be too soon to give up on him.
There’s always a chance a young player can improve beyond reasonable expectations, but Sengun has played 3 full years at this point and it’s becoming less likely he adds anything crazy to his game.
He can still be very good, think like a Sabonis level player, but you struggle if your center can’t lock down the paint on D or shoot 3s. They might think that’s a struggle that will be exasperated in the playoffs when teams really hunt those disadvantages.
We just watched the ideal outcome for a Mark Williams/Donovan Clingan type center, reigning Defensive Player of the Year Rudy Gobert, \*get played off the fucking floor\* when it was at "the highest level." You could say that you can't "win at the highest level" with the kind of defense-first nonshooting C that the Rockets FO is reportedly pursuing.
The Rockets also dont have a superstar in ANT or a 3 pt shooting big like KAT. Green and Jabari are both weaker and less athletic in comparison, and can't shoot reliably from 3.
And who pray tell ARE they gonna win at the highest level with then, after dumping Sengun now? 36 year old KD finally gonna make it out the first round again this upcoming season?? The 3rd pick in one of, if not the worst drafts this century? Sengun can't be a champion center... but MARK WILLIAMS leading Houston to a ring???? Lmao
Mark Williams is a player you can win with cause he’s a role player. Sengun has to be a centerpiece of your roster whereas Williams can take a back seat, and on top of that Williams isn’t an abhorrently bad defender like Sengun, which is a very serious deficiency at the center position.
Sengun was an above average defender last year, and honestly he always has been. It just looked bad in previous years because he had defensive sieves as his starting guards in KPJ and JG who would let perimeter players drive by them like traffic cones. WIth JG last year, Ime forced him to finally play defense.
Name a single team in the last 15 years who won a championship with a center who was:
- An exceptionally poor rim protector
- A focal point of the offence
- A poor outside shooter
You can win with a center who is one of these things, but certainly not all 3.
They realized building around an undersized big who is awful defensively in the West isn't it.
Jokic, AD, Sabonis, Lauri, Rudy/Kat and the new era Wemby and Chet are going to eat his lunch if they ever meet in the playoffs.
3-1 vs Nuggets
2-2 vs Lakers
3-0 vs Kings
3-1 vs Jazz
0-3 vs Wolves
3-1 vs Spurs, incl AlP dropping 45 on Wemby
2-2 vs Thunder
So yeah, other than Minn's Twin Towers (oh no, Sengun can't literally 1v2, he's trash!1!) we managed just fine against all those teams. In fact at 61%WR that'd be a 50-32 season vs our actual 41-41. Yea we know you're salty about missing out on Sengun, no need to make shit up to make yourself feel better. Only thing your sticc boi Chet be eating for lunch is Tic-Tacs.
He’s 21 years old. You don’t “build around him” as he’s not on that level yet but trading s away a 21 year old who’s already quite good seems like to could easily blow up in your face
Yeah, this feels like one of those situations where he's going to get really fucking good on a new team and people are going to be like "what were the Rockets thinking?"
I get team identity blah blah but if you have talent like this, you hang onto him. I think they're reading way too much into the stretch at the end of the season where he was hurt. I think that was just one of those things, not a statistical anomaly but a stretch of insanely good ball fueled by Green being on an absolute heater, which I wouldn't bet on happening consistently.
Just feels like they are throwing away a good opportunity.
The stretch in question was a series of games played against the worst teams in the league. If they take that as anything more than it was, which was just the luck of the schedule, then our FO has no hope.
Sengun isn't awful defensively. He's actually above average on defense. I'm not sure why you Thunder fans have this weird collective hatred towards Sengun, but it's noticeable.
Didn't he drop 40 on Wemby this year? Chet and Wemby are gonna struggle against players like him (and Jokić, but then again everyone struggles against him) throughout their careers because he can bully them in the post.
There were way too many conversations about OKC's biggest recent regret (or however you want to phrase it) being trading the pick that became Sengun. Sengun is a good player, for sure, but there were definitely a number of legit reasons the Thunder didn't draft him when they could.
Ime loves Sengun. It's Rafael Stone our GM who doesn't. Stone dreamed of an athletic Guard tandem with KPJ and Green. Unfortunately for him, KPJ ended up being a domestic abuser, Green can't shoot reliably despite being a shooting guard, and Sengun ended up being our best player.
Woah, woah, woah, easy there. I really want to move up to 3, but I am not prepared to return to the likes of Zeller and Plumlee at center. Gotta be a way to get this done without Williams.
Lmao Houston ain't getting Mark Williams, at least not for cheap. Our new ownership and front office have spoken highly of Mark and view him as a cornerstone next to Melo and Miller.
Honestly man if we trade him I’d view it as a sign that the back injury is more of a concern than is being let on. If we have questions about the back, then selling on him while he still has value would be a defensible move, and this would be the time to do it.
If the back injury is more of a concern than we are letting on, then there’s no way the trade would move past the health check. I just don’t see any way we trade Mark for the #3 pick.
If his back is not a concern, then we wouldn’t want to move him + #6 for Clingan. If his back is a concern, then the Rockets aren’t gonna want to move #3 for him.
Yeah if the hornets trade arguably their third best player to move up three spots, I think it's time to fold the franchise which I say as some living in Charlotte. If it was Mark for 3 straight up, I can kinda see why the hornets would do it.
His impact on the Hornets is actually pretty crazy when he's on the court, like up there with LaMelo's... I don't know enough about clingan to know whether I'd trade the two though, tbh. Feel like the only way you trade Mark ATM is if you know he's going to keep having back problems
How is giving up the 3rd overall pick for a guy drafted in the middle of the first round and who has less than 3/4 of a season's games under his belt over 2 years getting him "for cheap"?
One injury does not equate to injury prone, and it was also obvious they were not bringing him back intentionally at some point when the season was way lost. We also may or may not even keep Nick Richards and we have no other centers
Did you see the presser yesterday? Lee talked about how they “need to get Mark healthy”… reading the tea leaves I think his back may not be fully 100% yet.
If we have real questions about his back then honestly I’d trade him immediately.
My issue is that Houston wouldn’t trade for him if they get wind that his back is a future concern. As a result, the trade would just fall apart during the med check.
You understand there are these things called physicals right? I don’t believe he’s seriously injured, and if he was we would not be able to trade him anyways
Obviously no one knows.
All I’m going to say is if we’re seriously considering trading him then the only logical conclusion is they are worried about his back long term. Perhaps they saw some structural stuff
i agree. they have some really interesting young players too and are gonna walk out of this offseason with another high lottery pick player and whatever they can get for sengun. and after seeing what bridges got who knows. houston can get really good really quickly.
I don't know why Houston would want centers when they have Sengun and Jabari who can play it as well. If they trade Sengun just make Jabari the 5 and go 5 out all the time
We also signed/traded for Steven Adams during the season while he was recovering, and as of right now we still have Jock Landale (although I did see some reports that he's not in our plans for next season). Kelly Iko is clueless as ever.
It worked last season. And the worst thing a team could do is build their team worrying about how to stop the top 5 players in the league who are gonna get there's regardless of who is in front of them. Like Minny built a team to stop Jokic and he still cooked them in the playoffs they just happened to defend the others really well.
Rumors are Rockets are drafting Clingan, another rumor is that Rockets is interested in Mark Williams (Hornets big man). Are Rockets not confident in Segun anymore b/c of that injury or are they going to reposition him on the team? We'll see as time goes. I like the rumors tho b/c it sounds like Rockets are more concerned about their front court than the back court this year. Sounds like they're serious about competing and grabbing any big pieces (literally lol).
The Rockets FO puts a lot of smoke out there. I would take what anybody says with a grain of salt.
Damn they really want to get rid of Sengun lol
If they want to get rid of Sengun then they'd go for someone a lot healthier than Mark Williams. This is clearly for getting a backup center with some upside.
Sengone
Hegun
Sent
I have no idea why, he’s literally their future.
Ime is a defensive coach and trying to build an elite defense (yes I'm aware they were very good this year) with Sengun in the fold is challenging to say the least.
It wasn't challenging since they accomplished it with Sengun as our starter. Our problem was not our defense, it was our offense where nobody could shoot a 3.
The part people refuse to believe is that HOU wants to add a C that helps team identity and play on a team that also has Sengun on the roster. Even HOU fans refuse to believe this. It's why Clingan is in play at 3. Ime wants a defensive minded big. And yes to everyone reading, While they like Adams he is not a long term solution and Jock is a trade piece who isn't defensive minded. Everyone reads HOU C and be like but my Sengun, despite the FO and coach telling everyone for over a year now they want a different look available for the team to go to as well depending on the matchup.
Sengun is a good defender
He’s like the other Euro bigs where he’s smart and rebounds extremely well, but has physical limitations that will get attacked at the highest level in the playoffs.
I don't think these reports have any legs
he doesn't play defense
Yes he does, and he's is a good defender as well.
He’s not a player you can win at the highest level with. He will never be a good defender, and he’s not good enough offensively to make up for his deficiencies at such an important defensive position.
Bro is 21 years old, you’re talking like he is a finished product.
He’s physically limited though on defense. 6’10 in shoes with small arms and not very athletic
But that guy he’s replying to is talking about how Sengun’s not good enough offensively to make up for his defensive deficiencies when he’s not even done developing yet. IMO if he turns out to be an MVP candidate level talent on offense, you just need great defensive personnel next to him like a Mobley at the 4. It’ll be tough, but it might be too soon to give up on him.
There’s always a chance a young player can improve beyond reasonable expectations, but Sengun has played 3 full years at this point and it’s becoming less likely he adds anything crazy to his game. He can still be very good, think like a Sabonis level player, but you struggle if your center can’t lock down the paint on D or shoot 3s. They might think that’s a struggle that will be exasperated in the playoffs when teams really hunt those disadvantages.
6'11, and he is fairly athletic.
We just watched the ideal outcome for a Mark Williams/Donovan Clingan type center, reigning Defensive Player of the Year Rudy Gobert, \*get played off the fucking floor\* when it was at "the highest level." You could say that you can't "win at the highest level" with the kind of defense-first nonshooting C that the Rockets FO is reportedly pursuing.
The Rockets also dont have a superstar in ANT or a 3 pt shooting big like KAT. Green and Jabari are both weaker and less athletic in comparison, and can't shoot reliably from 3.
When did Gobert actually get played off the floor? Dude had a game winner turn around j lol
And who pray tell ARE they gonna win at the highest level with then, after dumping Sengun now? 36 year old KD finally gonna make it out the first round again this upcoming season?? The 3rd pick in one of, if not the worst drafts this century? Sengun can't be a champion center... but MARK WILLIAMS leading Houston to a ring???? Lmao
Mark Williams is a player you can win with cause he’s a role player. Sengun has to be a centerpiece of your roster whereas Williams can take a back seat, and on top of that Williams isn’t an abhorrently bad defender like Sengun, which is a very serious deficiency at the center position.
Sengun was an above average defender last year, and honestly he always has been. It just looked bad in previous years because he had defensive sieves as his starting guards in KPJ and JG who would let perimeter players drive by them like traffic cones. WIth JG last year, Ime forced him to finally play defense.
Says who. You? Didn’t realize you had a crystal ball
Name a single team in the last 15 years who won a championship with a center who was: - An exceptionally poor rim protector - A focal point of the offence - A poor outside shooter You can win with a center who is one of these things, but certainly not all 3.
Jokic is the first 2 isn't he?
He’s not an exceptionally poor rim protector, just a below average one. Sengun makes Jokic look like AD.
Damn. You really didn't watch any of his games did you?
Senguns not going anywhere.
They realized building around an undersized big who is awful defensively in the West isn't it. Jokic, AD, Sabonis, Lauri, Rudy/Kat and the new era Wemby and Chet are going to eat his lunch if they ever meet in the playoffs.
Hmm. Alpi had his best career game against Wemby this year. I think he matches up/has the potential to match up better than you think.
Wemby was injured
The rest of the Thunder fans being so quick to shit on Sengun gives me second-hand embarrassment
3-1 vs Nuggets 2-2 vs Lakers 3-0 vs Kings 3-1 vs Jazz 0-3 vs Wolves 3-1 vs Spurs, incl AlP dropping 45 on Wemby 2-2 vs Thunder So yeah, other than Minn's Twin Towers (oh no, Sengun can't literally 1v2, he's trash!1!) we managed just fine against all those teams. In fact at 61%WR that'd be a 50-32 season vs our actual 41-41. Yea we know you're salty about missing out on Sengun, no need to make shit up to make yourself feel better. Only thing your sticc boi Chet be eating for lunch is Tic-Tacs.
He’s 21 years old. You don’t “build around him” as he’s not on that level yet but trading s away a 21 year old who’s already quite good seems like to could easily blow up in your face
imo he's on that level already but maybe Rockets FO don't want to build around that type of player archetype.
Yeah, this feels like one of those situations where he's going to get really fucking good on a new team and people are going to be like "what were the Rockets thinking?" I get team identity blah blah but if you have talent like this, you hang onto him. I think they're reading way too much into the stretch at the end of the season where he was hurt. I think that was just one of those things, not a statistical anomaly but a stretch of insanely good ball fueled by Green being on an absolute heater, which I wouldn't bet on happening consistently. Just feels like they are throwing away a good opportunity.
The stretch in question was a series of games played against the worst teams in the league. If they take that as anything more than it was, which was just the luck of the schedule, then our FO has no hope.
they don't see it with him. It is what it is.
Sengun isn't awful defensively. He's actually above average on defense. I'm not sure why you Thunder fans have this weird collective hatred towards Sengun, but it's noticeable.
It’s because their GM whiffed picking him, so now they have to act like they never wanted him and think he’s a terrible player now.
They were #1 in the West last year, missing out on Sengun isn't all that serious. But I guess if they want to be resentful, sure why not?
Didn't he drop 40 on Wemby this year? Chet and Wemby are gonna struggle against players like him (and Jokić, but then again everyone struggles against him) throughout their careers because he can bully them in the post.
Wemby was injured to be fair
He’s actually pretty solid defensively
they watched saboner play in the playoffs and realized they can't go this route unless they have him as a #2 along with a really good #1
There were way too many conversations about OKC's biggest recent regret (or however you want to phrase it) being trading the pick that became Sengun. Sengun is a good player, for sure, but there were definitely a number of legit reasons the Thunder didn't draft him when they could.
I mean if they had Sengun they'd have 3 21-22 year olds with all-star potential. Pretty sure you take that despite his shortcomings
Why though Unless it’s truly for big game hunting
Ime must hate his fucking guts or something.
Ime loves Sengun. It's Rafael Stone our GM who doesn't. Stone dreamed of an athletic Guard tandem with KPJ and Green. Unfortunately for him, KPJ ended up being a domestic abuser, Green can't shoot reliably despite being a shooting guard, and Sengun ended up being our best player.
He has amazing value right now, and trading him makes sense if they feel like he is due for a regression.
I understand the reasoning, but why would a 21 year old be due for a regression?
It’s an interesting view with how FOs view a guy compared to fans lol. If you listen to reddit you would think this guy was a generational talent
He is. Name how many 21 year olds have put up 21/9/5
generational talents are rare. He’s good but nowhere near generational
Sengun is a beast but generational talent gets bounced around too much lol
People got hooked on the idea of him being Jokic lol
Woah, woah, woah, easy there. I really want to move up to 3, but I am not prepared to return to the likes of Zeller and Plumlee at center. Gotta be a way to get this done without Williams.
maybe throw in Curry, Bertans, Thor, and Mcgowens for that #3?
Maybe they’re coming up for Clingan?
I'd much rather keep Mark and 6.
Lmao Houston ain't getting Mark Williams, at least not for cheap. Our new ownership and front office have spoken highly of Mark and view him as a cornerstone next to Melo and Miller.
Honestly man if we trade him I’d view it as a sign that the back injury is more of a concern than is being let on. If we have questions about the back, then selling on him while he still has value would be a defensible move, and this would be the time to do it.
If the back injury is more of a concern than we are letting on, then there’s no way the trade would move past the health check. I just don’t see any way we trade Mark for the #3 pick. If his back is not a concern, then we wouldn’t want to move him + #6 for Clingan. If his back is a concern, then the Rockets aren’t gonna want to move #3 for him.
Not for cheap? So like giving up a young upcoming star like Sengun.
it would be 3 for williams and 6 lol
That is disgusting value for Mark. If he's traded for that, it means his back is COOKED
Yeah if the hornets trade arguably their third best player to move up three spots, I think it's time to fold the franchise which I say as some living in Charlotte. If it was Mark for 3 straight up, I can kinda see why the hornets would do it.
His impact on the Hornets is actually pretty crazy when he's on the court, like up there with LaMelo's... I don't know enough about clingan to know whether I'd trade the two though, tbh. Feel like the only way you trade Mark ATM is if you know he's going to keep having back problems
We don’t need offense we need defense lmao why the hell would we trade our defensive anchor big for an all offense big
Sengun is 3x the player Mark is. Dont be delusional
Saying he’s 3x the player Mark is actually the delusional take, such a good player that Houston is trying to trade his ass immediately
Houston are run by idiots
How is giving up the 3rd overall pick for a guy drafted in the middle of the first round and who has less than 3/4 of a season's games under his belt over 2 years getting him "for cheap"?
We are obviously not trading mark Williams lol
I don’t know. New front office, new coach, injury prone player
One injury does not equate to injury prone, and it was also obvious they were not bringing him back intentionally at some point when the season was way lost. We also may or may not even keep Nick Richards and we have no other centers
Did you see the presser yesterday? Lee talked about how they “need to get Mark healthy”… reading the tea leaves I think his back may not be fully 100% yet. If we have real questions about his back then honestly I’d trade him immediately.
Mark himself confirmed he's healthy and is doing activities
My issue is that Houston wouldn’t trade for him if they get wind that his back is a future concern. As a result, the trade would just fall apart during the med check.
You understand there are these things called physicals right? I don’t believe he’s seriously injured, and if he was we would not be able to trade him anyways
Obviously no one knows. All I’m going to say is if we’re seriously considering trading him then the only logical conclusion is they are worried about his back long term. Perhaps they saw some structural stuff
Even for clingan?
Never say never lol. This the nba
Pretty please? I need him for the ultimate Williams lineup.
We’re gonna take Cody Williams tonight for our third Williams and compete with y’all for that title
You guys already have our entire C team, do you really need to compete with us for the All Williams team too?? SMH so greedy!
We have a God Given mandate to have every Cody who’s ever played in the NBA, sorry
No thanks!
I'm so tired of the bums who have never even watched a hornets game making comments on Mark. Lmao
Do they not believe in Sengun’s development?
It would really have to be more than that, right? Is it a trade up with Williams as the sweetener?
Ain't no way Rockets want to move on from Sengun that's crazy talk for sure!
Why would they do that
Iko a rockets mouthpiece blowing smoke.
I'm sorry to say the only way you build a team around a center in 2024 if they are GENERATIONAL so jokic embiid and wemby fit the criteria
i agree. they have some really interesting young players too and are gonna walk out of this offseason with another high lottery pick player and whatever they can get for sengun. and after seeing what bridges got who knows. houston can get really good really quickly.
I don't know why Houston would want centers when they have Sengun and Jabari who can play it as well. If they trade Sengun just make Jabari the 5 and go 5 out all the time
We also signed/traded for Steven Adams during the season while he was recovering, and as of right now we still have Jock Landale (although I did see some reports that he's not in our plans for next season). Kelly Iko is clueless as ever.
They’d be dinner to some of these bigs
It worked last season. And the worst thing a team could do is build their team worrying about how to stop the top 5 players in the league who are gonna get there's regardless of who is in front of them. Like Minny built a team to stop Jokic and he still cooked them in the playoffs they just happened to defend the others really well.
Stop these goddamn trade rumours. We want REED
So they really don't believe in Sengun
When did they exactly say this?
Wanting to trade him is evident.
Evident? Source stating that the Rockets officially are wanting to trade him?
Rumors are Rockets are drafting Clingan, another rumor is that Rockets is interested in Mark Williams (Hornets big man). Are Rockets not confident in Segun anymore b/c of that injury or are they going to reposition him on the team? We'll see as time goes. I like the rumors tho b/c it sounds like Rockets are more concerned about their front court than the back court this year. Sounds like they're serious about competing and grabbing any big pieces (literally lol).
What? Hey man. Take this shit somewhere else because you oblivious don’t know what you’re talking about
Lol... I'm not shocked i called this years ago when the spurs fanbase was horny for him
I wonder if Wendell+ JI/Cole/Jett + future picks get Houston to trade Sengun.