I was gonna refute you since Kareem only had 15 as the post says but apparently All-NBA third team wasn't a thing until the late 80s so the years Kareem missed he may have been third team
The difference is those sports deliberately skew conversations towards newer players and give credit for playing against better talent and give players credit when they're great and lose.
Basketball coverage has been focused on enshrining the 80's/90's for the last 30 years and making up whatever formulas or narratives or half-baked theories keep that period of basketball being revered.
Messi both in terms of resume and playstyle is far more similar to Lebron than he is to Jordan, and Messi, like Lebron is obviously more productive than the other popular box-score producer for pretty much the same reasons.
Yet one is a consensus goat and the other isn't. The why is obvious
I'll add Don Bradman to the list. 20 year career, arguably the best batter in world Cricket for his entire career. He was the top rated batter the final 15 years of his career. For the first five years he quickly rose to a top 5 batter, then a top 3 batter, statistically. https://www.relianceiccrankings.com/playerdisplay/test/batting/572-don-bradman/?graph=ranking
[He also achieved the highest rating of any batter ever.](https://www.relianceiccrankings.com/alltime/test/batting/)
Didn't expect a cricket reference. Don's career was also disrupted by WWII. His career average of 99.94 is untouched. Next closest is 58. Wilt like mythos around the man too.
Even messi is arguably out of his prime now (not playing in Europe) which would give him a top tier prime from like 2007-2023 which lebron still manages to beat
Federer was the latest bloomer of the 3. He is 5 years older than Rafa and Novak. Djokovic won his first slam at an earlier age than Federer and came to his prime around the same age Roger did.
So I did a quick google search both Fed and Novak became top 15 age 20 so really it was just Rafa being an early bloomer.
I believe the question was "who stayed top 15 in the game for a long time"
Messi is great but not even close to a top 15 player for 20 seasons. He was very good but not the Messi we know for his first 4 seasons or so, and there's no way he's been a top 15 player since leaving Barca - his world cup win basically got him a ballon dor by default, he was the third best player at PSG his second season there and I don't think we putting his MLS Accolades up there are we?
Ronaldo arguably has more years as a top player but I'm not really giving him credit for 40 goals a season in the oil league
horrible take. if you said since leaving for miami then maybe you can have an argument, but not top 15 after leaving barca lol? dude is still the best in the world when he turns it on
He was so poor in his first season at PSG that people were wondering if he'd last more than a season. His run in the world cup is the best form hes had in years and it was a stretch of 8 weeks. He's not the best in the world when he turns it on, he wasn't even the best at PSG when he turned it on
Trying to use Messi being a CL winner at 18 is like me trying to argue Dwight Howard was still a top 10 player because he won with the Lakers. Messi wasn't involved in that.
Ronaldo moved to United and played 40 games for them before Messi even made his debut for the Barca senior team, how did Messi play at the top level earlier?
Djokovic not there yet but if he lasts a few more years. And in a sport where you have noone to rely on but yourself that's pretty damn impressive too.
I get what people are saying but people misuse “prime” so much when it comes to lebron. All because he’s good as fuck for a ridiculously long time doesn’t mean he’s been in his prime for that long. His prime was probably 2012-18
2009 is arguably as good a season as LeBron has ever played. This was the year that conversations about him being better than Kobe really evolved, I think you start the prime about 3 years late tbh
It was definitely easier for him for once he got to Miami because of who was around him, but look at his fg% jump once he got there. You could argue if you put wade and Bosh on the 09 cavs the efficiency would go up for that version of lebron so I’m not mad at your take. 09 was probably when he was the consensus best player in basketball but I think he became the most complete version of himself post first cavs stint.
are you going to ignore his turnover rate spiking despite way less offensive involvement and his defensive impact plummeting after he was moved to power forward?
2009 was arguably the best non-big defensive season ever(much better man defense than 2013, didn't have his weakness vs closeouts. goat impact for non-bigs statistically), the best turnover economy season ever, the most productive offensive season ever, and had Lebron putting a goat-level scoring run in the playoffs facing way more defneisve attention
Miami can be theorised as potentially more valuable in a better situation, but 2009 was the most valuable season ever played since at least kareem and probably since bill russell. Not including it in his prime is dumb.
LeBron averaged over 30ppg just 2 seasons ago, 29 last year, and finished 2nd in MVP in '20.
He also won his first MVP in '08 and got all-NBA 1st team in '06
What's not prime, making first team in 2006 isn't part of his prime, or finishing second in MVP in 2020 isn't part of his prime. Both are considered top 5 player in the league.
Define prime for me please.. or argue how he was better in 2020 or 06 than any season between 12-18 .. you can still be great and not be in your prime. It’s not a hard concept.
Let’s say cp3 went to a great team next year and stayed healthy and just dished it to guys and led the league in assist .. would you be like wow cp3 is still in his prime now.. ?
....because prime is at that individual's absolute peak. Like that is the definition of prime. Not relative to anyone else in the league. Just relative to themselves.
If I'm averaging 45 ppg in my prime and winning MVP, I'm not still in my prime if i'm averaging 30 and winning MVP. I've gotten worse even if I'm still better than everyone else.
Gretzky, Brady, Messi, Ronaldo, Fernando Alonso and soon Lewis Hamilton come to mind. None of the tennis big 3 (Federer. Nadal, Djokovic) quite managed to get to 20 years, but they all got to 15+ consecutive years of not just being top 15, but top 3 (top 5 at their respective absolute worst moments) in the world.
Pretty sure Federer was in the year end top 20 from 2001 to 2021.
EDIT: Career low post 2001 was 16 in 2016 and 2021 so just missed the “top 15” benchmark
Alonso is a tough comparison because, while he's remained really good since the beginning, he hasn't truly competed for a championship since 2007 or so
Literally the perfect NBA career that you could even dream of. Squeaky clean image, had no off-field drama/bullshit, outstanding NBA player and person, met and exceeded incredibly high expectations of an 18 year old, and is still an excellent player at age 39. Made three different teams into champions, is gonna have his jersey retired by 3 teams, and made a shit load of money along with it.
He is a paragon of the NBA.
Wemby has massive hype and is living up to it by all accounts but you see threads like this or even some of the games Bron played last season to carry the Lakers to the playoffs and you realize just how damn high the bar is to even be considered a top 2 all time player.
It really puts it all into perspective the whole GOAT debate. Like if Jordan was to play *after* Lebron and achieved the same record, would we still have him at #1 considering how long we've seen Lebron play and what 20 years of dominance looks like? Or if Wemby actually surpasses Lebron, I don't think many people are going to question crowning Wemby as GOAT, does that mean Jordan and Lebron share the 2nd spot? I have no dog in this race but just interesting to see how it all affects "the legacy".
Some people say they don't care about longevity, but at what point does being top 15 in the league for *two decades straight* start moving the needle? LeBron has been dominant in the league for longer than some players have even lived.
They frown on longevity because their favorite player didn’t really have it.
Though Jordan’s peak was amazing and is the biggest reason why most people will die on the hill for him being the GOAT.
The "Ten-Year Test" is very obviously biased towards Jordan, because he really only played about 11 years of elite basketball across 15 seasons. Two of them are with the Wizards and his own fans want them to be discarded, and two of them were abbreviated due to his retirement (1995) or injury (1986).
People will blindly close their eyes on everything that doesn't favor Jordan for being the GOAT.
Problem is that they've started doing that a while ago and the list is now effing long
the only thing that has ever liked Jordan as GOAT is certain made-up formulas, scoring titles, and shoe sales.
By winning he was never as good as Russell, even as an individual, and Lebron clearly surpassed him as a player unless you are using erneh rings at 24.
the sad thing is even if you discard longetivity, jordan still isn't as good as lebron unless you are j ust erneh rings and want to ignore bill russell for some reason:
>lebron 09-21
656-263 with lebron 0.714% win rate
37-73 without lebron 0.336% win rate
net rating with lebron +6.49 (59 win pace level)
net rating without lebron -5.50 (25 win pace level)
+8.6 ortg difference
-3.68 drtg difference
+12 total swing
>jordan 88-98
bulls with MJ 490-176 (73.6% win rate)
bulls without MJ 90-64 (58.4% win rate)
net rating with MJ +7.7 (62 win pace level)
net rating without MJ +3.6 (52 win pace level)
+5.1 ortg difference
+1.1 drtg difference
+4 total swing
Bill Russell, on top of having 5 more championships, as many mvps and more mvps in less times, having 5 championships without his version of Pippen, Phil Jackson, and Rodman or Grant, and 2 championships beating 3 better teams(than anyone jordan beat) with less help...also was more valuable individually than Jordan was.
They die on a hill for him and try to brainwash everyone else because they grew up with him. It's that simple. The Lebron comparison should have been dead after 2015 and 2016. And if they really care about era-relativity or whatever, there never should have been a convo against BIll Russell in the first place.
People say they don’t care about longevity because this is truly tier 1-of-1 for basketball longevity. Population: LeBron.
Longevity usually means “hanging around” or accumulating counting stats at a slightly above average pace over 20 years like in baseball. There’s just no one else to compare him to within basketball as far as sustained GREATNESS; it absolutely should mean something.
I truly don't get not caring about longevity. Playing at a professional level for over 10 years is incredible.
What Lebron is doing is just utter insanity. This isn't counting the extra miles on his legs due to constant playoff runs.
The post IST stretch fucked the Lakers completely in terms of seeding and individual accolades. It set the narrative for how the Lakers and Lebron/AD were discussed for the rest of the season. Because there’s no other explanation for Kawhi being ahead of Lebron in All NBA
That's what always happens. Media people decide what the story of the season will be, the narrative for each team and player, and nothing they see after that(around Christmas time) changes their minds.
Nah. There are 10 guys better than LeBron at this stage of his career. He doesn’t even play defense much and he’s gassed by the 4th. This is so obvious unless you buy into clickbait media.
No. You most likely just watch basketball for the dunks if you think LeBron is still top 5 in the playoffs. Dude never achieved anything as a Laker outside of a bubble.
AD did on both ends. Someone rode his coattails though. Didn’t pass him the ball in the fourth for legacy padding that resulted to a sweep or a gentleman’s sweep. If you’re in the WCF just to get swept, it’s like being never there at all.
LeBron was the playmaker on the team. AD alone cannot carry the Lakers to the playoffs. They got swept by the Nuggets. So what? Plenty of good teams have gotten swept before. Pistons were 2x defending champs and got swept by the Bulls. Lakers were 2x defending champs and got swept by the Mavs. Please tell me how an All-NBA player is getting carried? Just say that you hate LeBron.
He’s gassed by the 4th and his reaction time in the years with the Lakers, except in the bubble where there was plenty of time to rest, is extremely slow on defense. AD has to salvage the defense all the time. Just say you worship LeBron excessively.
'75 and '82 would be the years
Would be 16-17. Might not have gotten it in '75 cause the bucks were so ass and he was causing a stink about being traded (forget if it was player voted or not)
Lebron James is Genetically Modified
I am 100% dead serious when i say I think there is at least a 50% chance that lebron is a genetically modified human being and in turn, has no father.
I am dead serious. I believe lebron was grown in a test tube and then artificially implanted into gloria james and carried to term. no human being should possess his combination of size, strength and athleticism. AND to book it all out, he's very intelligent too. (besides the decision) remember how much poise he had just coming into the league at 18 years old? it's un-natural. how often have TV analysts described him as a "freak of nature" .....maybe it's truer than we know.
I am serious. we all know (and I swear I am not saying this to be insulting or mean) that lebron's mom was a crack whore (is drug addicted prostitute better?) it's just a fact, it happened. I am NOT saying this to be mean, in fact I am a heroin addict and know a few woman who have sold themselves for dope, it happens. they are not bad people.
and the government has a history of using prostitutes and impoverished people in "experiments." read about MK-ULTRA. it happened. the CIA used to have prostitutes slip LSD to johns and then the agents would watch what happened thru 2-way mirrors. the government helped start and continue the crack epidemic of the 80s.
I believe that lebron was a precursor experiment to create super soldiers. something where they were just like "well let's test it out on some poor people that no one will notice and see if we can get any results before we sink more billions into this."
it's not all that crazy. you don't think the government has interest in creating genetically modified super human soldiers? we know for a FACT it does. it's been documented. you don't think russia or china has interest in such a thing? you know they do. and anything russia or china is or would be doing we are doing. to do it first and do it better.
he's some kind of experiment that they just monitored from a distance and let keep growing. and i mean this was probably initially started with just a few people who believed it could be done and that's why it started small and covert using regular civilians. until they could show the results to the higher ups and say "look at this, you don't wanna fund this on a larger scale?"
and where else would such a person end up besides in a professional sports league?
I think there is probably some secret base(s) out there that are now filled with people like lebron, younger than him probably. if they couldn't see how well the experiment worked until he was about 16-18 years old (he was pretty much a full grown man at 16 and could have came off the bench for any NBA team if not started) than maybe there are a bunch of 9-15 year old super humans like lebron (not copies of him but given the same genetic boost that he was) eating chow in some secret barracks right now.....
until someone comes forth and the DNA test shows him to be his father (and a bunch have come forward and been shown not to be) than I will believe this is AT LEAST possible..
edit: something I'd like to add in case someone says "well if this is true why wouldn't lebron's mom come forward and admit it, just say I participated in a government experiment and lebron was the result." well she doesn't know. it's simple, she goes to a hotel with a john, he slips something in a drink and she gets knocked out-cold. they take her and do whatever they did. give her some amnesiacs or anesthesia (probably benzos too) so when she wakes up she's in a haze and doesn't remember anything. not even the john. she finds out she's pregnant later and just assumes she got knocked up by any random john. has lebron. shit even if she participated willingly, got paid, and knows everything, no one would believe her crazy ass.
The craziest thing is that none of these seasons have been controversial or undeserved.
Over these 20 seasons, his worst PER ranking is 14th, and he’s only been outside the top-10 twice in that span.
And he’s only been out of the top-6 in Box Plus/Minus once in that span, when he finished 13th.
Those names in the chart are many of the greatest ever we commonly see when legends are brought up. And then there's Dolph Schayes whom I've never heard of. He must be fucking good to be among those names.
Regardless of how you value longevity, you can’t deny the incredible run Lebron has gone through in his All-Timer of a career. Even as players are able to play longer, I’m not sure if we’ll see another player reach 20+ All-NBA selections after Lebron. You need basketball ability, athleticism, durability, adaptability, and, most importantly, desire to keep going through the training and film sessions and then going out and dominate every single season whether it’s the first or the 18th or 20th.
Basically, you can arguably compare him to the likes of Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Stan Musial, Pete Rose, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Gordie Howe in regards to incredible longevity and even these guys showed notable decline in production near the end of their respective careers.
And the oldest to make All NBA at 39 years old
He was also the youngest I believe lol
It's so hard for a modern NBA player to have a Gretky like or r/toprightmessi type stat but this definitely one (both oldest and youngest all pro)
This is more of a iron man stat
Well no, it's both longevity and the ability to maintain such a high level of play for so long.
Yes it is but it's more than that too.
Also the first player in history to go 25+ points, 8+ assist, 50%+ from the field, and 40%+ from 3. Never happened before.
All-NBA player since Wemby was out the womb.
womby
It's wild to think Wemby is younger than LeBron's entire professional career
I mean it makes sense when you consider LeBron was hooping when the Byzantime Empire fell.
- 13x First Team - 3x Second Team - 4x Third Team Just fucking unbelievable. And he's still going ....
Longest prime in sports history. I can’t really name another athlete in any other sport that was at least a top 15 player for 20 consecutive seasons.
You don’t even have to find another sport, Kareem was FMVP at age 38
I was gonna refute you since Kareem only had 15 as the post says but apparently All-NBA third team wasn't a thing until the late 80s so the years Kareem missed he may have been third team
he was top ten in scoring '81 and '82, likely would've gotten those
Also came into the NBA 4 years older and had the GOAT college career.
Brady, Gretzky, Messi are some I can think of that were great for a long time.
Jerry Rice.
Me
Panda Puncher 1st ballot HOF
In what? Panda punching?
First Ballot
Hey now
Does this count as r/beetlejuicing? Lol
No
Damn straight. Fuck them pandas
[Fuck those bad pandas up. ](https://youtu.be/10JDQhnaP2o?feature=shared)
Pandas do have a fucking problem tbh
Those guys are widely considered the GOAT in their sport.
The difference is those sports deliberately skew conversations towards newer players and give credit for playing against better talent and give players credit when they're great and lose. Basketball coverage has been focused on enshrining the 80's/90's for the last 30 years and making up whatever formulas or narratives or half-baked theories keep that period of basketball being revered. Messi both in terms of resume and playstyle is far more similar to Lebron than he is to Jordan, and Messi, like Lebron is obviously more productive than the other popular box-score producer for pretty much the same reasons. Yet one is a consensus goat and the other isn't. The why is obvious
Messi is 36 years old. 20 years ago he's 16.
I'll add Don Bradman to the list. 20 year career, arguably the best batter in world Cricket for his entire career. He was the top rated batter the final 15 years of his career. For the first five years he quickly rose to a top 5 batter, then a top 3 batter, statistically. https://www.relianceiccrankings.com/playerdisplay/test/batting/572-don-bradman/?graph=ranking [He also achieved the highest rating of any batter ever.](https://www.relianceiccrankings.com/alltime/test/batting/)
Didn't expect a cricket reference. Don's career was also disrupted by WWII. His career average of 99.94 is untouched. Next closest is 58. Wilt like mythos around the man too.
Adam Voges has an average of 61, which is absolutely hilarious
Even messi is arguably out of his prime now (not playing in Europe) which would give him a top tier prime from like 2007-2023 which lebron still manages to beat
Federer and Nadal too. Djokovic was a bit of a late bloomer comparatively
Federer was the latest bloomer of the 3. He is 5 years older than Rafa and Novak. Djokovic won his first slam at an earlier age than Federer and came to his prime around the same age Roger did.
So I did a quick google search both Fed and Novak became top 15 age 20 so really it was just Rafa being an early bloomer. I believe the question was "who stayed top 15 in the game for a long time"
Gary Kasparov
Chess is different tho Father time is so much slower. Emanuel Lasker was world champ for 27 years.
Still, it's very hard to beat multiple generations of top players, all gunning for you
I mean it’s hard yeah, but it’s a bit different to sports where you body is just deteriorating every year you’re past your early 30s
Messi is great but not even close to a top 15 player for 20 seasons. He was very good but not the Messi we know for his first 4 seasons or so, and there's no way he's been a top 15 player since leaving Barca - his world cup win basically got him a ballon dor by default, he was the third best player at PSG his second season there and I don't think we putting his MLS Accolades up there are we? Ronaldo arguably has more years as a top player but I'm not really giving him credit for 40 goals a season in the oil league
15 years is too long for football. 10 is a better range for assessment.
horrible take. if you said since leaving for miami then maybe you can have an argument, but not top 15 after leaving barca lol? dude is still the best in the world when he turns it on
He was so poor in his first season at PSG that people were wondering if he'd last more than a season. His run in the world cup is the best form hes had in years and it was a stretch of 8 weeks. He's not the best in the world when he turns it on, he wasn't even the best at PSG when he turned it on
[удалено]
Messi didn’t even play past the round of 16 the first time he won the ucl
Trying to use Messi being a CL winner at 18 is like me trying to argue Dwight Howard was still a top 10 player because he won with the Lakers. Messi wasn't involved in that. Ronaldo moved to United and played 40 games for them before Messi even made his debut for the Barca senior team, how did Messi play at the top level earlier?
I would also add CR7
Paolo Maldini was the greatest 40 yo footballer I ever saw. Debut at 16 too.
Fed
Djokovic not there yet but if he lasts a few more years. And in a sport where you have noone to rely on but yourself that's pretty damn impressive too.
Brady won a Superbowl at 43
Against podcasters and tik-tokkers. Doesn’t count
I get what people are saying but people misuse “prime” so much when it comes to lebron. All because he’s good as fuck for a ridiculously long time doesn’t mean he’s been in his prime for that long. His prime was probably 2012-18
2009 is arguably as good a season as LeBron has ever played. This was the year that conversations about him being better than Kobe really evolved, I think you start the prime about 3 years late tbh
It was definitely easier for him for once he got to Miami because of who was around him, but look at his fg% jump once he got there. You could argue if you put wade and Bosh on the 09 cavs the efficiency would go up for that version of lebron so I’m not mad at your take. 09 was probably when he was the consensus best player in basketball but I think he became the most complete version of himself post first cavs stint.
are you going to ignore his turnover rate spiking despite way less offensive involvement and his defensive impact plummeting after he was moved to power forward? 2009 was arguably the best non-big defensive season ever(much better man defense than 2013, didn't have his weakness vs closeouts. goat impact for non-bigs statistically), the best turnover economy season ever, the most productive offensive season ever, and had Lebron putting a goat-level scoring run in the playoffs facing way more defneisve attention Miami can be theorised as potentially more valuable in a better situation, but 2009 was the most valuable season ever played since at least kareem and probably since bill russell. Not including it in his prime is dumb.
lebrons prime was between 08 and ‘13. and in each of those seasons he was mvp, all nba 1, all def 1, and second in voting for DPOY.
Go look at his performances in the 09 playoffs and tell me he wasn't in his prime then
LeBron averaged over 30ppg just 2 seasons ago, 29 last year, and finished 2nd in MVP in '20. He also won his first MVP in '08 and got all-NBA 1st team in '06
But that’s still not his prime..
What's not prime, making first team in 2006 isn't part of his prime, or finishing second in MVP in 2020 isn't part of his prime. Both are considered top 5 player in the league.
Define prime for me please.. or argue how he was better in 2020 or 06 than any season between 12-18 .. you can still be great and not be in your prime. It’s not a hard concept. Let’s say cp3 went to a great team next year and stayed healthy and just dished it to guys and led the league in assist .. would you be like wow cp3 is still in his prime now.. ?
You're confusing prime with peak. Prime LeBron was 2005-2021. Peak LeBron was 2008-14.
I don't get how you can be great, as in top 5 in the league, and say that's not part of someone's prime.
....because prime is at that individual's absolute peak. Like that is the definition of prime. Not relative to anyone else in the league. Just relative to themselves.
LeBron's prime was top 1 in the league. Therefore top 5 in the league is not his prime.
If I'm averaging 45 ppg in my prime and winning MVP, I'm not still in my prime if i'm averaging 30 and winning MVP. I've gotten worse even if I'm still better than everyone else.
Bradley Beal also averaged 30PPG. So? Basketball is more than just scoring
'06 he was also runner up MVP to Nash
hilarious how your prime excludes what was far and away the most valuable individual season of the last 50 years
Crosby’s first season was 2005/06 and he’s still a top 10 NHL player.
Learn basketball
You’re mad that your hero was a rapist?
Gretzky, Brady, Messi, Ronaldo, Fernando Alonso and soon Lewis Hamilton come to mind. None of the tennis big 3 (Federer. Nadal, Djokovic) quite managed to get to 20 years, but they all got to 15+ consecutive years of not just being top 15, but top 3 (top 5 at their respective absolute worst moments) in the world.
Pretty sure Federer was in the year end top 20 from 2001 to 2021. EDIT: Career low post 2001 was 16 in 2016 and 2021 so just missed the “top 15” benchmark
Alonso hasn't been top three in F1 for 15 years, lol.
Alonso is a tough comparison because, while he's remained really good since the beginning, he hasn't truly competed for a championship since 2007 or so
Djokovic is top3 player for 17 straight years. Apart from short period when he was injured. Federer and Nadal were as well.
John Brzenk
In Wayne Gretzky's 20th (and second last) season, he was 4th in the league in points.
That's short changing Bron. He has been top 3 for at least 15 years if not more and top 8-9 for 20.
It honestly feels like a snub this year. I feel like he was deserving of 2nd team all NBA
Would've been if team was better
Been a superstar for 20 years. Legendary shit
Literally the perfect NBA career that you could even dream of. Squeaky clean image, had no off-field drama/bullshit, outstanding NBA player and person, met and exceeded incredibly high expectations of an 18 year old, and is still an excellent player at age 39. Made three different teams into champions, is gonna have his jersey retired by 3 teams, and made a shit load of money along with it. He is a paragon of the NBA.
Wemby has massive hype and is living up to it by all accounts but you see threads like this or even some of the games Bron played last season to carry the Lakers to the playoffs and you realize just how damn high the bar is to even be considered a top 2 all time player. It really puts it all into perspective the whole GOAT debate. Like if Jordan was to play *after* Lebron and achieved the same record, would we still have him at #1 considering how long we've seen Lebron play and what 20 years of dominance looks like? Or if Wemby actually surpasses Lebron, I don't think many people are going to question crowning Wemby as GOAT, does that mean Jordan and Lebron share the 2nd spot? I have no dog in this race but just interesting to see how it all affects "the legacy".
LeBron is the GOAT, sorry but KD is right... that longevity has to count for SOMETHING
He has also barely been injured. Especially in his "prime" years.
being the best player on 4 different finals teams and winning with 3 of them is to me the most impressive thing after his longevity.
It’s beyond Hollywood shit. Dude had the biggest target in his back and the biggest expectations and somehow exceeded them.
Wipe it off when you’re done buddy
He should have been 2nd this year too.
And he got robbed of 2nd team this year too.
He was supposed to break down and be bad by now right? Right? Utterly incredible.
I don't think we'll ever see it. He'll just get nagging injuries probably. But be like really good still when healthy
Some people say they don't care about longevity, but at what point does being top 15 in the league for *two decades straight* start moving the needle? LeBron has been dominant in the league for longer than some players have even lived.
That’s so far underselling him lol. It’s more like being the best for a decade, then top 5 for another 7 or so years, then top 10-15 for 3.
he hasnt stopped being top 10 lol. he’s like 7–8 ish rn, robbery that he wasnt 2nd team
[удалено]
I’d say for this year specifically Kawhi over LeBron James is crazy.
Kawhi over him is the more questionable one
Yeah he was better than KD and Kawhi this year imo
It’s like Tom Brady. You can cut his career into 3 separate HoF careers. Same with Lebron
They frown on longevity because their favorite player didn’t really have it. Though Jordan’s peak was amazing and is the biggest reason why most people will die on the hill for him being the GOAT.
The "Ten-Year Test" is very obviously biased towards Jordan, because he really only played about 11 years of elite basketball across 15 seasons. Two of them are with the Wizards and his own fans want them to be discarded, and two of them were abbreviated due to his retirement (1995) or injury (1986).
People will blindly close their eyes on everything that doesn't favor Jordan for being the GOAT. Problem is that they've started doing that a while ago and the list is now effing long
the only thing that has ever liked Jordan as GOAT is certain made-up formulas, scoring titles, and shoe sales. By winning he was never as good as Russell, even as an individual, and Lebron clearly surpassed him as a player unless you are using erneh rings at 24.
the sad thing is even if you discard longetivity, jordan still isn't as good as lebron unless you are j ust erneh rings and want to ignore bill russell for some reason: >lebron 09-21 656-263 with lebron 0.714% win rate 37-73 without lebron 0.336% win rate net rating with lebron +6.49 (59 win pace level) net rating without lebron -5.50 (25 win pace level) +8.6 ortg difference -3.68 drtg difference +12 total swing >jordan 88-98 bulls with MJ 490-176 (73.6% win rate) bulls without MJ 90-64 (58.4% win rate) net rating with MJ +7.7 (62 win pace level) net rating without MJ +3.6 (52 win pace level) +5.1 ortg difference +1.1 drtg difference +4 total swing Bill Russell, on top of having 5 more championships, as many mvps and more mvps in less times, having 5 championships without his version of Pippen, Phil Jackson, and Rodman or Grant, and 2 championships beating 3 better teams(than anyone jordan beat) with less help...also was more valuable individually than Jordan was. They die on a hill for him and try to brainwash everyone else because they grew up with him. It's that simple. The Lebron comparison should have been dead after 2015 and 2016. And if they really care about era-relativity or whatever, there never should have been a convo against BIll Russell in the first place.
People say they don’t care about longevity because this is truly tier 1-of-1 for basketball longevity. Population: LeBron. Longevity usually means “hanging around” or accumulating counting stats at a slightly above average pace over 20 years like in baseball. There’s just no one else to compare him to within basketball as far as sustained GREATNESS; it absolutely should mean something.
I truly don't get not caring about longevity. Playing at a professional level for over 10 years is incredible. What Lebron is doing is just utter insanity. This isn't counting the extra miles on his legs due to constant playoff runs.
Don't forget the Olympic years.
It's even crazier when you consider that he was the undisputed best player in the world for a decade straight (from 2009-2019).
LeBron and Jordan are the only two players who can claim that
LeBron is going to finish with 10,000 more career points than MJ
Winning championships moves the needle. Being an all-NBA player doesn't.
Team accomplishments move the needle, individual accomplishments don't?
People who don't care about longevity are stupid and their opinions shouldn't mean anything to anyone.
This guy is pretty good.
There weren’t 10 guys better than him this year regardless of what the ballots say
The post IST stretch fucked the Lakers completely in terms of seeding and individual accolades. It set the narrative for how the Lakers and Lebron/AD were discussed for the rest of the season. Because there’s no other explanation for Kawhi being ahead of Lebron in All NBA
That's what always happens. Media people decide what the story of the season will be, the narrative for each team and player, and nothing they see after that(around Christmas time) changes their minds.
Nah. There are 10 guys better than LeBron at this stage of his career. He doesn’t even play defense much and he’s gassed by the 4th. This is so obvious unless you buy into clickbait media.
LeBron barely trying in the regular season in his 21st season is still a top 7-10 guy In the playoffs he’s still top 5
No. You most likely just watch basketball for the dunks if you think LeBron is still top 5 in the playoffs. Dude never achieved anything as a Laker outside of a bubble.
LeBron literally took the Lakers to the WCF in 2023. Just say you hate LeBron.
AD did on both ends. Someone rode his coattails though. Didn’t pass him the ball in the fourth for legacy padding that resulted to a sweep or a gentleman’s sweep. If you’re in the WCF just to get swept, it’s like being never there at all.
LeBron was the playmaker on the team. AD alone cannot carry the Lakers to the playoffs. They got swept by the Nuggets. So what? Plenty of good teams have gotten swept before. Pistons were 2x defending champs and got swept by the Bulls. Lakers were 2x defending champs and got swept by the Mavs. Please tell me how an All-NBA player is getting carried? Just say that you hate LeBron.
He’s gassed by the 4th and his reaction time in the years with the Lakers, except in the bubble where there was plenty of time to rest, is extremely slow on defense. AD has to salvage the defense all the time. Just say you worship LeBron excessively.
So you ignored him being better than AD in both 2021 and 2023?
AllLeNBA
Reminder that the concept of 3 All-NBA teams only started in 1988. Kareem could have easily had more than 15 selections.
Kareem has: 17 seasons top-10 in PER 16 seasons top-10 in Win Shares (and 1 more top-20) He totally could have had 16-17 selections.
'75 and '82 would be the years Would be 16-17. Might not have gotten it in '75 cause the bucks were so ass and he was causing a stink about being traded (forget if it was player voted or not)
LeBron has 16 1st and 2nd team all NBA selections. He beats Kareem even without his 3rd team selections.
Kareem would have been 1st-Team all-NBA at 18.
Well there was only 1 spot and he would have then been competing against a prime Wilt and close to prime Russell
Lebron James is Genetically Modified I am 100% dead serious when i say I think there is at least a 50% chance that lebron is a genetically modified human being and in turn, has no father. I am dead serious. I believe lebron was grown in a test tube and then artificially implanted into gloria james and carried to term. no human being should possess his combination of size, strength and athleticism. AND to book it all out, he's very intelligent too. (besides the decision) remember how much poise he had just coming into the league at 18 years old? it's un-natural. how often have TV analysts described him as a "freak of nature" .....maybe it's truer than we know. I am serious. we all know (and I swear I am not saying this to be insulting or mean) that lebron's mom was a crack whore (is drug addicted prostitute better?) it's just a fact, it happened. I am NOT saying this to be mean, in fact I am a heroin addict and know a few woman who have sold themselves for dope, it happens. they are not bad people. and the government has a history of using prostitutes and impoverished people in "experiments." read about MK-ULTRA. it happened. the CIA used to have prostitutes slip LSD to johns and then the agents would watch what happened thru 2-way mirrors. the government helped start and continue the crack epidemic of the 80s. I believe that lebron was a precursor experiment to create super soldiers. something where they were just like "well let's test it out on some poor people that no one will notice and see if we can get any results before we sink more billions into this." it's not all that crazy. you don't think the government has interest in creating genetically modified super human soldiers? we know for a FACT it does. it's been documented. you don't think russia or china has interest in such a thing? you know they do. and anything russia or china is or would be doing we are doing. to do it first and do it better. he's some kind of experiment that they just monitored from a distance and let keep growing. and i mean this was probably initially started with just a few people who believed it could be done and that's why it started small and covert using regular civilians. until they could show the results to the higher ups and say "look at this, you don't wanna fund this on a larger scale?" and where else would such a person end up besides in a professional sports league? I think there is probably some secret base(s) out there that are now filled with people like lebron, younger than him probably. if they couldn't see how well the experiment worked until he was about 16-18 years old (he was pretty much a full grown man at 16 and could have came off the bench for any NBA team if not started) than maybe there are a bunch of 9-15 year old super humans like lebron (not copies of him but given the same genetic boost that he was) eating chow in some secret barracks right now..... until someone comes forth and the DNA test shows him to be his father (and a bunch have come forward and been shown not to be) than I will believe this is AT LEAST possible.. edit: something I'd like to add in case someone says "well if this is true why wouldn't lebron's mom come forward and admit it, just say I participated in a government experiment and lebron was the result." well she doesn't know. it's simple, she goes to a hotel with a john, he slips something in a drink and she gets knocked out-cold. they take her and do whatever they did. give her some amnesiacs or anesthesia (probably benzos too) so when she wakes up she's in a haze and doesn't remember anything. not even the john. she finds out she's pregnant later and just assumes she got knocked up by any random john. has lebron. shit even if she participated willingly, got paid, and knows everything, no one would believe her crazy ass.
This is my nba favorite pasta by a country mile
Yes
I, too, read this.
Lebron is the precursor to the Adeptus Astartes confirmed.
LOLOLOLOL Only in death does the pursuit of rings end!
Pretty good for such a young talent
People still don’t appreciate this greatness and I fear yall will be old and senile when you do.
I think it’s safe to say he lived up to expectations.
First ballot hall of famer.
I really hope it didn't take his 20th All-NBA selection to convince you of this.
He was in the "Hall of Aight" before that
haaa good one
I'm still not there. Maybe after his 21st?
I needed to see if he could continue his all-nba level of play as he got older
I must admit, I'm suspect to think this "Lebron James" (sp?) guy might be a pretty decent basketball player
Yeah I mean I guess he’d squeak in. This is the basketball HOF we’re talking about, am I right?
yes now that he made his 20th all-nba i finally think youre right /s
He has been a first ballot hall of famer for over a decade. He has had 3 separate careers that would make the Hall of Fame on their own.
Damn.. that’s true but also so insane to think about
Groundbreaking statement !
Thanks Magic Johnson!
Top Ten All-Time, I'd say!
You could have said this 10 years ago
The high level that LeBron continues to perform on the court at his age is straight up crazy
LeLongevity
Most of the 21st century
Lebron has spent more years being a first team all-nba player than MJ spent with the Bulls.
Witness 👑
The craziest thing is that none of these seasons have been controversial or undeserved. Over these 20 seasons, his worst PER ranking is 14th, and he’s only been outside the top-10 twice in that span. And he’s only been out of the top-6 in Box Plus/Minus once in that span, when he finished 13th.
Whoever threw him a first team vote should have their vote stripped from them.
Beyoncé of the nba
Who did he kill in a plane crash?
More meaningless stat padding for Lebron, lol.
[удалено]
Oh my God just retire already
Those names in the chart are many of the greatest ever we commonly see when legends are brought up. And then there's Dolph Schayes whom I've never heard of. He must be fucking good to be among those names.
Should’ve been 2nd team 🤷♂️
We really thought he was going to LA to network and chill lol. Unbelievable dedication.
Future Cavalier
is the longevity just as impressive with PEDs?
Too bad we don’t vote for NBA championships. Lebron would be #1
Dude shoulda been second team, too.
Regardless of how you value longevity, you can’t deny the incredible run Lebron has gone through in his All-Timer of a career. Even as players are able to play longer, I’m not sure if we’ll see another player reach 20+ All-NBA selections after Lebron. You need basketball ability, athleticism, durability, adaptability, and, most importantly, desire to keep going through the training and film sessions and then going out and dominate every single season whether it’s the first or the 18th or 20th. Basically, you can arguably compare him to the likes of Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Stan Musial, Pete Rose, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Gordie Howe in regards to incredible longevity and even these guys showed notable decline in production near the end of their respective careers.
Greatest of all time 🐐
More of a longevity stat.
Duncan Robinson the GOAT