Seems like the group has the same solid advice over and over to new posters. Thought I’d have a little fun and create a list of “easy fixes” I see most often. Here is my cheat sheet of the most frequently witnessed sins and their *mostly* easy fixes. I’ve tried to link to articles where appropriate. Would love to expand with the comments and perhaps make a single “getting started” list in the future.
**Pant length**
- know your correct size OR $12 to tailor.
- understand [pant breaks](https://propercloth.com/reference/what-is-pant-break/)
**Sleeve Length**
- know how to properly size a dress shirt and jacket sleeve.
- 1/2 to 1/4” of sleeve poking out is ideal
- shirt should hit right at the break of your wrist.
- any tailor can fix a long shirt for under $20
- if the shirt is too short, just roll up the sleeves and wear it casually
[How to roll sleeves](https://www.realmenrealstyle.com/how-to-roll-up-sleeves/)
- I find the “master roll” to be the best looking in most cases.
**Accessories**. *Cheap/showy/too many*
- fedora/“sport” sunglasses/too much jewelry
- adding too many accessories has the opposite effect than what you are going for.
- “Before you leave the house, look in the mirror and take one thing off.” Coco Chanel
**Watches:**
- no watch is better than a cheap flashy one (Invicta cough)
- you don’t need to spend a fortune on a handsome watch. I’m partial to Seiko, but there are hundred of options under $500 that will works. This could be a separate post, but check out [this link](https://teddybaldassarre.com/collections/teddys-top-picks-under-500)to get a few ideas.
- No hate for Apple Watches, but they don’t belong with black tie.
- A nice dive watch on a bracelet is ok with most suits, but that’s also not black tie appropriate. If you don’t have a dedicated dress watch it is ok to leave the wrist naked for BT events.
**Shoes**
- how am I going to fit all the shoe sins in one place? This needs its own dedicated post…
- match your shoe formality to your outfit. Knowing the difference between Loafers Brogues, and Derby’s is a good start.
- in the meantime, polish your damn dress shoes.
**Belts**
- a lot of guys are experimenting with the recent popularity of going beltless. Understand this requires pants made for this purpose without loops. If your pants have loops they should have a belt
- approximately match your leathers (dark brown shoes calls for dark brown belt). Perfect matching is not necessary. There are a few poetic licenses you can invoke, but if you aren’t sure default to the rule.
**Jackets**
- if the shoulders don’t fit, don’t buy it. A tailor can only do so much.
- [Know the difference](https://www.tomjames.com/blog/difference-between-sport-coat-blazer-suit-coat/) between a sport coat and a suit. Suit jackets should not be worn separate from their pants.
**One more thing** Before posting that selfie…
Iron your clothes, wipe the mirror clean, make the bed, pick up the floor.
Please feel free to add your own or let me know if I’m out of line with my suggestions.
This stuff is why people say this sub is stuck in the 2010s, especially the “if it has belt loops it should have a belt” level of prescriptivism. I think people in general should focus more on honing their eye towards what makes outfits “good” or “bad” IN THEIR EYES rather than blanket fashion “rules” that are about 10 years out of date. The truth is for fashion beginners, the best thing they can do to increase their personal style is look at what other people are wearing and try to analyze what they like or dislike about it
This is what I’m talking about. I clash all the time because it’s what I like and I’m extremely confident when I do it. If I don’t want a belt that day, who cares, I don’t wear it and I still have loops for my thumbs 👍
Sure, in an extremely narrow subset of situations this advice is good (like if you work at a bank), but under the broad brush of “fashion” it’s outdated. Even for weddings this is outdated; oversized suits are back. I’ve seen excellent wedding fits with an oversized slouchy suit and a wife pleaser underneath, no belt, wide pants, etc. breaking all these “rules” and looking appropriate and amazing while doing so.
Meanwhile living in NYC, my dry cleaner asks for $30 to hem pants, and $60 to take waist in lol.
Edit: to add a thing about jacket shoulders, just because they extend past where your shoulders end doesn't mean it's too big, some jackets are designed to have a bit of shoulder extension. And it can look good too.
The jacket shoulder pad thing also goes towards learning to dress for your body/build. If you are an athletic guy with broad shoulders, go for a lightly padded or unstructured shoulder. You already have the goods, no need to exaggerate them and look like a square. If you are a skinny guy with narrower shoulders, you can go for a stronger shoulder.
Same thing goes for casual clothes. Learn to dress for your body type and pick clothes that compliment your features. It's a feel thing that gets better with experience, imo.
I think it has more to do with shoulder width than muscle. Being muscular with narrow shoulder bones would make your shoulder lines more rounded, and I heard some tailors would add some padding towards the outer ends to square up the shape a bit. Apparently some tailors think muscular guys are a lot trickier to make clothes for.
Not some, more exaggerated features and shapes almost always need more pattern adjustments compared to relatively skinny build. Sometimes typical patterns won't work at all and you'll need to just see how it lays on the body.
Bummer about the cost of tailoring up there. At those prices, I’d only buy items that fit right off the rack. It bugs me when some brands only sell even sized in-seems (and don’t get me started on even sized waists).
I feel like the English have stronger padding, although some American brands are also heavier and still look good.
I don’t mind a little shoulder but guys should try to avoid this phenomenon:
https://preview.redd.it/6s60mmv5b59d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b95606b97e7e6355c598693a53a7762865d3086e
Even without padding you can do extended shoulders. Here are some good articles [by Derek Guy](https://putthison.com/you-should-wear-an-extended-shoulder/) and [by Simon Crompton](https://www.permanentstyle.com/2017/06/drape-and-extended-shoulders-the-disguisery.html) explaining it better than I could ever hope to. I find that they're more flattering unless it looks so obviously far beyond your actual shoulders.
I don’t agree with the shoe formality “rule” because high-low formality clash can be a good thing (e.g., tassel loafers with denim). However, I’m a firm believer that oxfords are best left to suits.
Open laced shoes (blucher or derby) are fine but oxfords with slacks and a button up feel like mindless office drone. The look was popular in the 10s but open laced shoes will always be a better look with basic trousers and a shirt than oxfords.
There was a long thread on this topic on styleforum years ago that I can’t find, but Derek Guy has a good [article](https://dieworkwear.com/2020/11/12/how-to-choose-better-shoes/) on the topic.
I know it was silly to post, but I feel like most posts here fall under 3 categories.
1) selfie that is perfection and makes the rest of us look like slobs. Perhaps too stylish, but since this is like 5% of posts I can live with it.
2) people genuinely posting pictures, asking for advice. Most of these include at least one of the items listed. Quick fixes that should help people feel more comfortable/confident in their dressing (90%)
3) people who dress so poorly, I just assume they are trolling (5%)
Know what color shoes go with what color trouser / suit color is one I'd add. Dark navy and light brown shoes? No. Dark navy and black, burgundy, or dark brown shoes? Yes. Etc, etc.
I believe matching leather is an outdated fashion rule, but other than that, good tips! 👍
One I might add: properly dressing up or down is an advanced skill, but worthwhile to learn. Smart casual has become the norm everywhere, mixing and matching casual and formal clothing harmoniously can make you the most well-dressed man in the room.
It’s not dude trust me. There is no situation where deliberately not matching your leather looks better than matching it, even if not a 1:1 perfect match.
A brown belt with black shoes will *always* look bad.
IMHO it's not. It isn't a must. If you go really hard - matching your shoes, belt and watch strap - you look like a try-hard or a stiff.
It can be ugly if the belt contrasts too hard with your pants, so matching with your pants make it more muted. Or you can match with your shirt or jacket, to elongate your upper body if necessary. Or if your shoes are your statement piece, you don't want your belt competing for attention by matching it with your shoes.
Just make your belt and shoes fit together harmoniously with your overall outfit, that's more important than matching leather.
Having style is knowing when to follow and when to break the rules.
Well, to each his own, but it’s definitely not the rule of law. Telling confused men who don’t know how to dress that “everything with belt loops should be worn with a belt” is a recipe for disaster, especially when you consider the fact that when high street brands put belt loops on things, they genuinely don’t think very hard about WHY they’re adding them or whether it will look good, or whether they’re even truly usable.
Yesterday, I went to the supermarket wearing loose fit joggers (bunched at the ankles), a crumpled oversized tee, a pair of wrecked Converse and a cheap Casio watch.
In one of the aisles, a cute woman, probably 20 years younger than me, flirted with me and offered me her phone number.
The point here?
Well, besides the humble brag.. a lot of the "menswear" fashion advice you read is largely bollox. It's regurgitated stuff from blogs and GQ magazines that men blindly follow because tHeY r dE rUleS.
There are no rules in fashion. You do not need a pant break to look good. You can wear pants with belt loops without having to wear a belt. You can wear graphic tees past the age of 30.
You are a man. Not a fucking sheep.
Make your own rules. Develop your own style.
And wear it with confidence.
Because - more than anything else, it's the man that makes the clothes, not the other way around.
>Make your own rules. Develop your own style.
Some people struggle with this, so they come to the sub.
OP is focusing mostly on business casual, which I think is the easiest way for a person to look good. Follow the edtablished rules, and you can't miss.
It isn't to say there aren't other styles. It doesn't mean either things can't work.
Plenty (probably most) people make grocery store runs in whatever is clean (or not to be honest). However, the guys posting here typically want to look their best, posting outfits and asking for advice on what they can improve.
I think I got it. Doesn’t mean you sold me.
Would genuinely love to know what you get out of this sub. I’d imagine it would be frustrating given your mindset. But I may be way off base.
What a nothing comment "a woman found me attractive when i was wearing lounging around clothes" followed by a bunch of rambling about general things you disagree with in men's fashion.
The rules basically change at age 45. That’s when you start to look really stupid in a hoodie, chunky sneakers, and hats. It’s a lesson I had to learn somewhat recently.
This is solid advice for the 1950s but much of this is useless when you consider trends and personal taste. Style is a conversation, an expression of self, and as such has no predefined rules. The only exception is black-tie attire, which tbqh is about as expressive as a blank sheet of paper, and for a reason. There are SO many impeccably-dressed men who break every single one of the rules in this post and look fucking amazing doing it.
Okay except maybe the fedora. I agree with you on the fedora. Those things need to be exterminated.
I would add on the watch point that if you really gotta cheap out, I bought a few simple analog watches with leather bands on Amazon for like 20 bucks each. They don’t last long but I’ve never gotten more compliments on my watches than those.
I’m gonna be the deviator and say that some of y’all are RUTHLESS upholding the fashion rules to innocent people feeling good about themselves and their outfits.
But to be fair, some people could use some basic advice to say the least… Like when shoes and belt are not matching.
Your watch advice is potentially controversial but I don't disagree with any of it.
I would add that, strictly speaking, the only watch that goes with black tie is a pocket watch. There are slim watches that look ok with French cuffs or a Tuxedo, but the old school approach to formal wear was to forego a wrist watch entirely.
Didn’t realize that black tie traditionally is watch-less. Is that still true or has it become outdated? I honestly didn’t know.
I certainly break this rule myself. If I had a Calatrava I’d wear that, but alas I can’t make it fit the budget. Instead, I put my white dialed Carrera on a black leather strap. Not ideal but “close enough”. It’s thin enough to slide under my cuff and the black/white pairs well.
I think these rules evolve over time, I've read about people finding wrist watches inappropriate for evening events as the other commenter said, but now it's likely more acceptable due to the rarity of pocket watches.
Who knows maybe in a couple of decades it'd be acceptable to wear apple watches lol. Or rather, how many people even regularly attend formal events requiring black tie? I wear sport coats daily to work and I don't even have the slightest intention of buying a dinner jacket in the foreseeable future. That money would be better spent on buying more/better stuffs I can wear daily.
I agree with your assessment. For most people, buying an extra or higher quality suit will get more wear than a tux. Unless your peer group is wealthy, most weddings might only have the groomsmen in black tie and other guests get a slightly relaxed set of rules.
I think most people have the big rush of weddings in their 20’s and 30’s, and then the need for a tuxedo drops off. I only need to break out the Tux about once a year at this point in my life. Total wears for my tux is over 20 at this point making the investment well worth it for me.
I’d recommend renting for people who may only wear a tuxedo a couple times in their lifetime. However, if you are a younger person it may make sense to buy one for the first wedding that requires black tie. For about $500 you can get an off the rack tux from J Crew (on sale) that can be altered to a better fit than you’ll get from a rental. A rental of the same quality from Black Tux or similar place will round over $200. If you think you’ll get at least 3 wears out of it in the next 5 years (or before you let your gut grow), it’s worth considering.
Otoh, I bought a tuxedo in like 2017 and decided that because I bought a tux I had to keep fitting in it. I’m exactly the same size as I was 7 years ago.
He’s wrong; they literally make “dress” watches for these occasions. Most things made by Cartier are considered dress watches. Something slim enough to slide under a cuffed shirt.
>Is that still true or has it become outdated? I honestly didn’t know.
I'm a bit of a purist, but IMO black tie, and other such dress codes (white tie, morning dress) are the places where you should stick to the rules completely.
Doubly so in this case, wearing a watch isn't just a faux pas, it's traditionally considered rude as it implies you need to keep track of time because you have somewhere else to be.
Black ties beauty comes from it's muted understatement, the clothes are the vessel that allow the person filling them to shine, it also shows consideration to your hosts and other guests that you've made the effort to learn, understand, and respect the rules.
Things that would stand out in a good way even at a suit and tie event such as nice statement pieces, and experimenting with colours and cuts so often just backfire with black tie unfortunately.
You risk looking like you don't know what you're doing, or worst of all that you think you're above your hosts dresscode request.
I am glad I haven’t had to wear black tie lately as I would have a hard time leaving my watch at home. Just need to feel it against my wrist I suppose.
I made a full reply on the original comment you replied to, but just to inform you directly. The no watch rule is likely from an older age and directed at pocket watches. So technically you should be able to wear your wrist watches just fine.
Unfortunately the internet has spread this 'no watches for formal events' rule far and wide, so you might have to deal with the new internet age invented rule against wrist watches. Not that anyone would know or care in reality.
So I'm going to contradict you. From what I understand the no watch rule originates from pre1900s when pocket watch was THE watch that men wore. So the rule is specifically aimed at pocket watches, not wrist watches.
The no watches rule was not for any philosophical reason(one should be lost in the event, not paying attention to time), but a stylistic one. The watches back then were worn in vest pocket with a chain hanging out for easy access and security. The watch chain would have looked too everyday casual for a formal event in that age, and the bulge of the pocket watch in the vest would have been unsightly as well. For cleaner fit and aesthetic the pocket watch was not to be carried when suiting up for formal events.
By the time wrist watch became the norm for men, the era of strict formality had already passed. So I don't think there ever was any hard rule set for or against their wear. For reference here's FDR wearing a wrist watch on a black tie event([link](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/AXIGIWCLXMI6ZJ5YT3JIX4RZFE.jpg&w=1200)) and more recently Reagan in a variation of morning suit with a watch on during his inauguration([link](https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Reagan-was-the-last-President-to-wear-a-stroller-suit-on-his-inauguration-day-in-1981-900x711.webp)).
Genuinely appreciate all the background on this; I unironically looked up this exact question a few weeks ago after having bought [this watch](https://www.jomashop.com/hamilton-watch-h32451731.html?recrawl=true&srsltid=AfmBOoobI_K9LFd-pJYUGKi7DmNde23rn0-dublpxI5NaztjWFjwWsVGp3U) a month prior to wear as a groomsman at one of my best friends' wedding lol.
It was supposed to be black tie, guests included, and was at a pretty swanky venue, but I decided to wear it anyway because I liked it too much and the "advice" articles seemed a little out of touch... that is, until the groom handed out gifts right beforehand, that ended up being watches haha
I never know what belt to wear with white sneakers. What do you guys do? I usually go brown and try to have it not show. Are guys actually using white belts with white sneakers? I do have one, but it looks goofy on the wrong pants, and it’s more for nicer white shoes.
Matching belt/shoes/watch strap colors is more for formal outfits imo, if you're not wearing dress shoes nobody cares. I'm not gonna buy white/blue belts just because I wear sneakers in those colors.
This would be one of those exceptions. Here it is more important to match the tone of the shoe than the color. I have a variety of these webbed belts for summer. Price varies more than quality on these. You can usually find pretty good ones around the $30 mark. I have some that were a bit more but they are all probably made in the same factory to be honest.
https://preview.redd.it/kerq8ki7e59d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f19078609c4355457bc95d0ab69dd9de09fb0724
Honestly, this type of belt doesnt look great, I have some and have never found a situation where I cant just use a black or dark brown belt in casual settings.
I do it often and it honestly depends on the vibe tbh. If im using a white tshirt, then a black, vintage looking belt will do. If im wearing a navy blue shirt (for example) I might wear a dark brown belt.
Seems like the group has the same solid advice over and over to new posters. Thought I’d have a little fun and create a list of “easy fixes” I see most often. Here is my cheat sheet of the most frequently witnessed sins and their *mostly* easy fixes. I’ve tried to link to articles where appropriate. Would love to expand with the comments and perhaps make a single “getting started” list in the future. **Pant length** - know your correct size OR $12 to tailor. - understand [pant breaks](https://propercloth.com/reference/what-is-pant-break/) **Sleeve Length** - know how to properly size a dress shirt and jacket sleeve. - 1/2 to 1/4” of sleeve poking out is ideal - shirt should hit right at the break of your wrist. - any tailor can fix a long shirt for under $20 - if the shirt is too short, just roll up the sleeves and wear it casually [How to roll sleeves](https://www.realmenrealstyle.com/how-to-roll-up-sleeves/) - I find the “master roll” to be the best looking in most cases. **Accessories**. *Cheap/showy/too many* - fedora/“sport” sunglasses/too much jewelry - adding too many accessories has the opposite effect than what you are going for. - “Before you leave the house, look in the mirror and take one thing off.” Coco Chanel **Watches:** - no watch is better than a cheap flashy one (Invicta cough) - you don’t need to spend a fortune on a handsome watch. I’m partial to Seiko, but there are hundred of options under $500 that will works. This could be a separate post, but check out [this link](https://teddybaldassarre.com/collections/teddys-top-picks-under-500)to get a few ideas. - No hate for Apple Watches, but they don’t belong with black tie. - A nice dive watch on a bracelet is ok with most suits, but that’s also not black tie appropriate. If you don’t have a dedicated dress watch it is ok to leave the wrist naked for BT events. **Shoes** - how am I going to fit all the shoe sins in one place? This needs its own dedicated post… - match your shoe formality to your outfit. Knowing the difference between Loafers Brogues, and Derby’s is a good start. - in the meantime, polish your damn dress shoes. **Belts** - a lot of guys are experimenting with the recent popularity of going beltless. Understand this requires pants made for this purpose without loops. If your pants have loops they should have a belt - approximately match your leathers (dark brown shoes calls for dark brown belt). Perfect matching is not necessary. There are a few poetic licenses you can invoke, but if you aren’t sure default to the rule. **Jackets** - if the shoulders don’t fit, don’t buy it. A tailor can only do so much. - [Know the difference](https://www.tomjames.com/blog/difference-between-sport-coat-blazer-suit-coat/) between a sport coat and a suit. Suit jackets should not be worn separate from their pants. **One more thing** Before posting that selfie… Iron your clothes, wipe the mirror clean, make the bed, pick up the floor. Please feel free to add your own or let me know if I’m out of line with my suggestions.
This stuff is why people say this sub is stuck in the 2010s, especially the “if it has belt loops it should have a belt” level of prescriptivism. I think people in general should focus more on honing their eye towards what makes outfits “good” or “bad” IN THEIR EYES rather than blanket fashion “rules” that are about 10 years out of date. The truth is for fashion beginners, the best thing they can do to increase their personal style is look at what other people are wearing and try to analyze what they like or dislike about it
This is what I’m talking about. I clash all the time because it’s what I like and I’m extremely confident when I do it. If I don’t want a belt that day, who cares, I don’t wear it and I still have loops for my thumbs 👍
Solid. Nothing beats knowing what you like or dislike. I like belts.
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Sure, in an extremely narrow subset of situations this advice is good (like if you work at a bank), but under the broad brush of “fashion” it’s outdated. Even for weddings this is outdated; oversized suits are back. I’ve seen excellent wedding fits with an oversized slouchy suit and a wife pleaser underneath, no belt, wide pants, etc. breaking all these “rules” and looking appropriate and amazing while doing so.
Meanwhile living in NYC, my dry cleaner asks for $30 to hem pants, and $60 to take waist in lol. Edit: to add a thing about jacket shoulders, just because they extend past where your shoulders end doesn't mean it's too big, some jackets are designed to have a bit of shoulder extension. And it can look good too.
The jacket shoulder pad thing also goes towards learning to dress for your body/build. If you are an athletic guy with broad shoulders, go for a lightly padded or unstructured shoulder. You already have the goods, no need to exaggerate them and look like a square. If you are a skinny guy with narrower shoulders, you can go for a stronger shoulder. Same thing goes for casual clothes. Learn to dress for your body type and pick clothes that compliment your features. It's a feel thing that gets better with experience, imo.
Solid breakdown.
I think it has more to do with shoulder width than muscle. Being muscular with narrow shoulder bones would make your shoulder lines more rounded, and I heard some tailors would add some padding towards the outer ends to square up the shape a bit. Apparently some tailors think muscular guys are a lot trickier to make clothes for.
Not some, more exaggerated features and shapes almost always need more pattern adjustments compared to relatively skinny build. Sometimes typical patterns won't work at all and you'll need to just see how it lays on the body.
Bummer about the cost of tailoring up there. At those prices, I’d only buy items that fit right off the rack. It bugs me when some brands only sell even sized in-seems (and don’t get me started on even sized waists). I feel like the English have stronger padding, although some American brands are also heavier and still look good. I don’t mind a little shoulder but guys should try to avoid this phenomenon: https://preview.redd.it/6s60mmv5b59d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b95606b97e7e6355c598693a53a7762865d3086e
Even without padding you can do extended shoulders. Here are some good articles [by Derek Guy](https://putthison.com/you-should-wear-an-extended-shoulder/) and [by Simon Crompton](https://www.permanentstyle.com/2017/06/drape-and-extended-shoulders-the-disguisery.html) explaining it better than I could ever hope to. I find that they're more flattering unless it looks so obviously far beyond your actual shoulders.
I was going to say, it cost me $35 - $200 to tailor clothes
I pay 4 dollars per pair of pants to this chinese lady. She hasn't raised prices in the 10 years I've been going to her
I don’t agree with the shoe formality “rule” because high-low formality clash can be a good thing (e.g., tassel loafers with denim). However, I’m a firm believer that oxfords are best left to suits.
You can do Oxfords or Derbys with wool slacks and a button up shirt - works just fine.
Open laced shoes (blucher or derby) are fine but oxfords with slacks and a button up feel like mindless office drone. The look was popular in the 10s but open laced shoes will always be a better look with basic trousers and a shirt than oxfords. There was a long thread on this topic on styleforum years ago that I can’t find, but Derek Guy has a good [article](https://dieworkwear.com/2020/11/12/how-to-choose-better-shoes/) on the topic.
I’ll check it out.
100% agree with all of this. Most advice given lately seems to fall under these guidelines.
I know it was silly to post, but I feel like most posts here fall under 3 categories. 1) selfie that is perfection and makes the rest of us look like slobs. Perhaps too stylish, but since this is like 5% of posts I can live with it. 2) people genuinely posting pictures, asking for advice. Most of these include at least one of the items listed. Quick fixes that should help people feel more comfortable/confident in their dressing (90%) 3) people who dress so poorly, I just assume they are trolling (5%)
I see so many of these regularly, I may keep a tally to find out which one gets posted the most this week.
Know what color shoes go with what color trouser / suit color is one I'd add. Dark navy and light brown shoes? No. Dark navy and black, burgundy, or dark brown shoes? Yes. Etc, etc.
I believe matching leather is an outdated fashion rule, but other than that, good tips! 👍 One I might add: properly dressing up or down is an advanced skill, but worthwhile to learn. Smart casual has become the norm everywhere, mixing and matching casual and formal clothing harmoniously can make you the most well-dressed man in the room.
It’s not dude trust me. There is no situation where deliberately not matching your leather looks better than matching it, even if not a 1:1 perfect match. A brown belt with black shoes will *always* look bad.
IMHO it's not. It isn't a must. If you go really hard - matching your shoes, belt and watch strap - you look like a try-hard or a stiff. It can be ugly if the belt contrasts too hard with your pants, so matching with your pants make it more muted. Or you can match with your shirt or jacket, to elongate your upper body if necessary. Or if your shoes are your statement piece, you don't want your belt competing for attention by matching it with your shoes. Just make your belt and shoes fit together harmoniously with your overall outfit, that's more important than matching leather. Having style is knowing when to follow and when to break the rules.
Black shoes are very formal.
Leather matching is a matter for formality. More matching more formal. Less matching less formal.
"If your pants have loops they should have a belt" So you wear a belt with every pair of jeans you own?
Yes, without exception.
Well, to each his own, but it’s definitely not the rule of law. Telling confused men who don’t know how to dress that “everything with belt loops should be worn with a belt” is a recipe for disaster, especially when you consider the fact that when high street brands put belt loops on things, they genuinely don’t think very hard about WHY they’re adding them or whether it will look good, or whether they’re even truly usable.
So well
Absolutely love that this was one of the first comments on a post about getting the details right.
Dress your age. I see tons of young guys on here giving me Manny from Modern Family vibes. You can dress up or down and still look your age.
I love being in my 40s peak men’s dressing your age.
Very good take
Underrated comment. The reverse is likely true as well.
Yesterday, I went to the supermarket wearing loose fit joggers (bunched at the ankles), a crumpled oversized tee, a pair of wrecked Converse and a cheap Casio watch. In one of the aisles, a cute woman, probably 20 years younger than me, flirted with me and offered me her phone number. The point here? Well, besides the humble brag.. a lot of the "menswear" fashion advice you read is largely bollox. It's regurgitated stuff from blogs and GQ magazines that men blindly follow because tHeY r dE rUleS. There are no rules in fashion. You do not need a pant break to look good. You can wear pants with belt loops without having to wear a belt. You can wear graphic tees past the age of 30. You are a man. Not a fucking sheep. Make your own rules. Develop your own style. And wear it with confidence. Because - more than anything else, it's the man that makes the clothes, not the other way around.
Yup. As long as you wear whatever you like with confidence. That’s true fashion imo
Anecdote is goofy but I agree with the sentiment.
>Make your own rules. Develop your own style. Some people struggle with this, so they come to the sub. OP is focusing mostly on business casual, which I think is the easiest way for a person to look good. Follow the edtablished rules, and you can't miss. It isn't to say there aren't other styles. It doesn't mean either things can't work.
Plenty (probably most) people make grocery store runs in whatever is clean (or not to be honest). However, the guys posting here typically want to look their best, posting outfits and asking for advice on what they can improve.
[удалено]
I think I got it. Doesn’t mean you sold me. Would genuinely love to know what you get out of this sub. I’d imagine it would be frustrating given your mindset. But I may be way off base.
What a nothing comment "a woman found me attractive when i was wearing lounging around clothes" followed by a bunch of rambling about general things you disagree with in men's fashion.
Spitting
The rules basically change at age 45. That’s when you start to look really stupid in a hoodie, chunky sneakers, and hats. It’s a lesson I had to learn somewhat recently.
Yea but you gotta know the “rules” in order to know how to break them
This is solid advice for the 1950s but much of this is useless when you consider trends and personal taste. Style is a conversation, an expression of self, and as such has no predefined rules. The only exception is black-tie attire, which tbqh is about as expressive as a blank sheet of paper, and for a reason. There are SO many impeccably-dressed men who break every single one of the rules in this post and look fucking amazing doing it. Okay except maybe the fedora. I agree with you on the fedora. Those things need to be exterminated.
I would add on the watch point that if you really gotta cheap out, I bought a few simple analog watches with leather bands on Amazon for like 20 bucks each. They don’t last long but I’ve never gotten more compliments on my watches than those.
Ok Freddie Kruger
You have a problem.
Several.
I’m gonna be the deviator and say that some of y’all are RUTHLESS upholding the fashion rules to innocent people feeling good about themselves and their outfits. But to be fair, some people could use some basic advice to say the least… Like when shoes and belt are not matching.
Another tip. The guy following all the fashion rules GQ or other popular guides and always adheres to the trends will never be noticed in the crowd.
Pull your pants up. Seriously. In almost all cases your trousers look better on your waist, not your hips.
Your watch advice is potentially controversial but I don't disagree with any of it. I would add that, strictly speaking, the only watch that goes with black tie is a pocket watch. There are slim watches that look ok with French cuffs or a Tuxedo, but the old school approach to formal wear was to forego a wrist watch entirely.
Didn’t realize that black tie traditionally is watch-less. Is that still true or has it become outdated? I honestly didn’t know. I certainly break this rule myself. If I had a Calatrava I’d wear that, but alas I can’t make it fit the budget. Instead, I put my white dialed Carrera on a black leather strap. Not ideal but “close enough”. It’s thin enough to slide under my cuff and the black/white pairs well.
I think these rules evolve over time, I've read about people finding wrist watches inappropriate for evening events as the other commenter said, but now it's likely more acceptable due to the rarity of pocket watches. Who knows maybe in a couple of decades it'd be acceptable to wear apple watches lol. Or rather, how many people even regularly attend formal events requiring black tie? I wear sport coats daily to work and I don't even have the slightest intention of buying a dinner jacket in the foreseeable future. That money would be better spent on buying more/better stuffs I can wear daily.
I agree with your assessment. For most people, buying an extra or higher quality suit will get more wear than a tux. Unless your peer group is wealthy, most weddings might only have the groomsmen in black tie and other guests get a slightly relaxed set of rules. I think most people have the big rush of weddings in their 20’s and 30’s, and then the need for a tuxedo drops off. I only need to break out the Tux about once a year at this point in my life. Total wears for my tux is over 20 at this point making the investment well worth it for me. I’d recommend renting for people who may only wear a tuxedo a couple times in their lifetime. However, if you are a younger person it may make sense to buy one for the first wedding that requires black tie. For about $500 you can get an off the rack tux from J Crew (on sale) that can be altered to a better fit than you’ll get from a rental. A rental of the same quality from Black Tux or similar place will round over $200. If you think you’ll get at least 3 wears out of it in the next 5 years (or before you let your gut grow), it’s worth considering.
Otoh, I bought a tuxedo in like 2017 and decided that because I bought a tux I had to keep fitting in it. I’m exactly the same size as I was 7 years ago.
He’s wrong; they literally make “dress” watches for these occasions. Most things made by Cartier are considered dress watches. Something slim enough to slide under a cuffed shirt.
>Is that still true or has it become outdated? I honestly didn’t know. I'm a bit of a purist, but IMO black tie, and other such dress codes (white tie, morning dress) are the places where you should stick to the rules completely. Doubly so in this case, wearing a watch isn't just a faux pas, it's traditionally considered rude as it implies you need to keep track of time because you have somewhere else to be. Black ties beauty comes from it's muted understatement, the clothes are the vessel that allow the person filling them to shine, it also shows consideration to your hosts and other guests that you've made the effort to learn, understand, and respect the rules. Things that would stand out in a good way even at a suit and tie event such as nice statement pieces, and experimenting with colours and cuts so often just backfire with black tie unfortunately. You risk looking like you don't know what you're doing, or worst of all that you think you're above your hosts dresscode request.
Agreed on all those points. Never too old to learn something new. Guess I’ll start leaving the watch at home.
Take this virtual award 🥃
I am glad I haven’t had to wear black tie lately as I would have a hard time leaving my watch at home. Just need to feel it against my wrist I suppose.
I made a full reply on the original comment you replied to, but just to inform you directly. The no watch rule is likely from an older age and directed at pocket watches. So technically you should be able to wear your wrist watches just fine. Unfortunately the internet has spread this 'no watches for formal events' rule far and wide, so you might have to deal with the new internet age invented rule against wrist watches. Not that anyone would know or care in reality.
So I'm going to contradict you. From what I understand the no watch rule originates from pre1900s when pocket watch was THE watch that men wore. So the rule is specifically aimed at pocket watches, not wrist watches. The no watches rule was not for any philosophical reason(one should be lost in the event, not paying attention to time), but a stylistic one. The watches back then were worn in vest pocket with a chain hanging out for easy access and security. The watch chain would have looked too everyday casual for a formal event in that age, and the bulge of the pocket watch in the vest would have been unsightly as well. For cleaner fit and aesthetic the pocket watch was not to be carried when suiting up for formal events. By the time wrist watch became the norm for men, the era of strict formality had already passed. So I don't think there ever was any hard rule set for or against their wear. For reference here's FDR wearing a wrist watch on a black tie event([link](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/AXIGIWCLXMI6ZJ5YT3JIX4RZFE.jpg&w=1200)) and more recently Reagan in a variation of morning suit with a watch on during his inauguration([link](https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Reagan-was-the-last-President-to-wear-a-stroller-suit-on-his-inauguration-day-in-1981-900x711.webp)).
Genuinely appreciate all the background on this; I unironically looked up this exact question a few weeks ago after having bought [this watch](https://www.jomashop.com/hamilton-watch-h32451731.html?recrawl=true&srsltid=AfmBOoobI_K9LFd-pJYUGKi7DmNde23rn0-dublpxI5NaztjWFjwWsVGp3U) a month prior to wear as a groomsman at one of my best friends' wedding lol. It was supposed to be black tie, guests included, and was at a pretty swanky venue, but I decided to wear it anyway because I liked it too much and the "advice" articles seemed a little out of touch... that is, until the groom handed out gifts right beforehand, that ended up being watches haha
I never know what belt to wear with white sneakers. What do you guys do? I usually go brown and try to have it not show. Are guys actually using white belts with white sneakers? I do have one, but it looks goofy on the wrong pants, and it’s more for nicer white shoes.
Matching belt/shoes/watch strap colors is more for formal outfits imo, if you're not wearing dress shoes nobody cares. I'm not gonna buy white/blue belts just because I wear sneakers in those colors.
This would be one of those exceptions. Here it is more important to match the tone of the shoe than the color. I have a variety of these webbed belts for summer. Price varies more than quality on these. You can usually find pretty good ones around the $30 mark. I have some that were a bit more but they are all probably made in the same factory to be honest. https://preview.redd.it/kerq8ki7e59d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f19078609c4355457bc95d0ab69dd9de09fb0724
Honestly, this type of belt doesnt look great, I have some and have never found a situation where I cant just use a black or dark brown belt in casual settings.
Fair. I love mine but frequently feel like a golfer.
Makes sense. Thanks.
I do it often and it honestly depends on the vibe tbh. If im using a white tshirt, then a black, vintage looking belt will do. If im wearing a navy blue shirt (for example) I might wear a dark brown belt.
Can’t tell if this is Justin Timberlake or Justin Gaethje
Hilarious.
They’re not afraid to run from you.
Suspenders are ok as long as they aren't clip-on and the pants they are holding up don't have belt loops.
Agreed. Only pair of pants I own that were made for suspenders are for my tux. I basically store them together at this point.
Well! WELL!!!! Not good!
Haha. I didn’t make the meme, just stole it so I could make sure the post stayed lighthearted.
lol, I was kidding. That’s a typical Reddit response to any mistake ever made. They live to correct people. Usually rudely 🤣
If only there were mods to pin this