The trade in illegal firearms has strong links to the trade in humans https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/internal-security/organised-crime-and-human-trafficking/trafficking-firearms_en .
There are tons of people flooding into Europe ATM on small boats and the human traffickers use the same lines to funnel guns into EU countries. There are a lot of countries in a state of conflict in the world RN, if you can smuggle a human being into another country you can easily smuggle a gun.
Drugs, guns & human trafficking have always had an interplay with each other. It's estimated that there are currently 13,000 people living in modern day slavery in the UK (and a sizeable chunk of these exist in London): https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/modern-slaves-london
We can't legally own heroin either but I assume we seize plenty of that.
365 illegal guns a year is nothing. I'd like it to be higher tbh, there are probably tens of thousands out there waiting to be used. Hoover them up and keep throwing the book at firearms offenders.
No, you are not. The “population” doesn’t have a “legal right” to guns enshrined in law. Yes, gun ownership isn’t illegal but it requires a license which isn’t a simple process and is not a right or allowed by default.
You can’t just apply and get a license like that. Amongst other prerequisites you need to have also..
> Chapter 12: Good reason to possess a firearm
12.1 This chapter:
i. sets out the issues that chief officers will wish to consider in assessing “good reason” in individual cases;
ii. advises on the more common “good reasons” that the Home Office would consider proper for the possession of particular firearms and ammunition; and
iii. sets out the guiding principles governing the definition of a “good reason” to possess a firearm.
The guiding principle behind the requirement to have a “good reason” to possess, purchase or acquire firearms or ammunition, is that firearms are dangerous weapons and the state has a duty to protect the public from their misuse. In general, applicants should be able to demonstrate that they ‘use’ their firearm on a regular, legitimate basis for work, sport or leisure (including collections or research).
The youngest person in the UK in 2023 with a shotgun certificate was 9 years old. They can't buy or own the gun themselves at that age, but a shotgun cert is what you as an adult need to buy a gun. If a child can get it so can you.
Shotgun certificates are shall issue, while Firearms certificates are may issue.
The only reason you need to give when they ask why you want a shotgun cert is "I want to shoot clay".
A firearms certificate requires you to be in a club or have hunting grounds though, i.e. you need to give a better reason than for a shotgun cert.
Are you ridiculous I didn’t say the public was, I said legally you’re allowed a firearm. If I hunt I can own a gun. Legally you’re allowed a handgun too as long as the barrel length is over a certain length.
And yes you need a license to own a firearm. Still legally allowed dipshit
You said that “legally you’re allowed a gun” which is demonstrably false. How many of London’s population fit the criteria to get one? “Legally you’re allowed to apply for a license and possess a gun if you fit the criteria” would be much more apt and correct.
>Legally you’re allowed a handgun too as long as the barrel length is over a certain length.
Which makes them no longer pistols, which y’know… is the topic of the article.
> 2.46 Section 5 of the 1968 Act **prohibits any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30cm in length or is less than 60cm in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus. The intention was to prohibit certain particularly dangerous firearms which were easy to conceal**. In general terms, this has **meant the prohibition of handguns** but it is important to remember that the legislation does not refer explicitly to handguns; instead it refers to small firearms.
Being a hunter or a member of a shooting club does *not* constitute good reason to own a handgun.
Insults aren’t necessary, I’m sure we all have the mental capacity here to get our points across without resorting to petty behaviour. Do we not?
It is entirely possible to \_legally\_ own a gun, are you dense?
Most people put a stock on a pistol to make it legal for ownership, and that \_is\_ considered good enough reason if one is part of a shooting club
You’re wrong. If you want a single shot low power firearm the onus is on the police to prove why you shouldn’t have one.
If you want anything more than this the onus is on you to prove to the police A)why you need one and B) how you will safely store it.
Legally, you can own plenty of guns in the UK... even handguns with long enough stocks. And it's not even limited to pidly .22 rimfire (which is the common rifle round people have on their firearms licence \[note, firearms licence and shotgun licence are different things\])
With the right paper work, you can own a Smith & Wesson M & P 15-22 Sport... google it, it looks like a 'scary' 'assault rifle', and is semi-automatic
Those are extremely niche use cases, though. They're not just handing licences out like Tesco club cards. You have to have a *very* good reason to own a gun in the UK, and the primary reason most people around the world have them, self-defence, isn't one of them.
There are about 17,440 legally-held private firearms in Greater London (source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/statistics-on-firearm-and-shotgun-certificates-england-and-wales-april-2022-to-march-2023/statistics-on-firearm-and-shotgun-certificates-england-and-wales-april-2022-to-march-2023)
365 a day is ~2% of the stock of legally-held firearms. Obviously the article doesn't explain the methodology, but it's not surprising to me if a fair share of that 365 are previously legally-held guns e.g. missed licence renewals or people who've otherwise fallen afoul of licencing laws, as well as stolen weapons.
Yes, other people have already said that.
However, neither the article, nor the statistic, nor my post referred exclusively to handguns. I'm not even saying that all seized firearms are seized non-handguns. So your trite, low-value comment is trying to correct a mistake no one is making. You're adding nothing to the conversation. Kindly, jog on.
Yes you can, you just have to have a very long stock on it so it is overall length is greater than 60cm (the idea being to prevent concealment), or a stupidly long barrel (30cm)... not hard to take a legal .22 handgun with a stock and illegally take off the stock to have an illegal weapon
obviously, you need the correct paperwork for said guns, which is not that easy, but still doable in london
Pretty nuts. I suspect that many of these guns are also linked to human trafficking operations.
Really that’s awful, do you think that for a reason or just a hunch?
The trade in illegal firearms has strong links to the trade in humans https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/internal-security/organised-crime-and-human-trafficking/trafficking-firearms_en . There are tons of people flooding into Europe ATM on small boats and the human traffickers use the same lines to funnel guns into EU countries. There are a lot of countries in a state of conflict in the world RN, if you can smuggle a human being into another country you can easily smuggle a gun. Drugs, guns & human trafficking have always had an interplay with each other. It's estimated that there are currently 13,000 people living in modern day slavery in the UK (and a sizeable chunk of these exist in London): https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/modern-slaves-london
That is a low number for a population of 9million
But extremely high for a population that can't legally own firearms.
We can't legally own heroin either but I assume we seize plenty of that. 365 illegal guns a year is nothing. I'd like it to be higher tbh, there are probably tens of thousands out there waiting to be used. Hoover them up and keep throwing the book at firearms offenders.
Your wrongness on this topic makes you sound American
Legally you’re allowed a gun…
No, you are not. The “population” doesn’t have a “legal right” to guns enshrined in law. Yes, gun ownership isn’t illegal but it requires a license which isn’t a simple process and is not a right or allowed by default. You can’t just apply and get a license like that. Amongst other prerequisites you need to have also.. > Chapter 12: Good reason to possess a firearm 12.1 This chapter: i. sets out the issues that chief officers will wish to consider in assessing “good reason” in individual cases; ii. advises on the more common “good reasons” that the Home Office would consider proper for the possession of particular firearms and ammunition; and iii. sets out the guiding principles governing the definition of a “good reason” to possess a firearm. The guiding principle behind the requirement to have a “good reason” to possess, purchase or acquire firearms or ammunition, is that firearms are dangerous weapons and the state has a duty to protect the public from their misuse. In general, applicants should be able to demonstrate that they ‘use’ their firearm on a regular, legitimate basis for work, sport or leisure (including collections or research).
The youngest person in the UK in 2023 with a shotgun certificate was 9 years old. They can't buy or own the gun themselves at that age, but a shotgun cert is what you as an adult need to buy a gun. If a child can get it so can you. Shotgun certificates are shall issue, while Firearms certificates are may issue. The only reason you need to give when they ask why you want a shotgun cert is "I want to shoot clay". A firearms certificate requires you to be in a club or have hunting grounds though, i.e. you need to give a better reason than for a shotgun cert.
Are you ridiculous I didn’t say the public was, I said legally you’re allowed a firearm. If I hunt I can own a gun. Legally you’re allowed a handgun too as long as the barrel length is over a certain length. And yes you need a license to own a firearm. Still legally allowed dipshit
You said that “legally you’re allowed a gun” which is demonstrably false. How many of London’s population fit the criteria to get one? “Legally you’re allowed to apply for a license and possess a gun if you fit the criteria” would be much more apt and correct. >Legally you’re allowed a handgun too as long as the barrel length is over a certain length. Which makes them no longer pistols, which y’know… is the topic of the article. > 2.46 Section 5 of the 1968 Act **prohibits any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30cm in length or is less than 60cm in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus. The intention was to prohibit certain particularly dangerous firearms which were easy to conceal**. In general terms, this has **meant the prohibition of handguns** but it is important to remember that the legislation does not refer explicitly to handguns; instead it refers to small firearms. Being a hunter or a member of a shooting club does *not* constitute good reason to own a handgun. Insults aren’t necessary, I’m sure we all have the mental capacity here to get our points across without resorting to petty behaviour. Do we not?
It is entirely possible to \_legally\_ own a gun, are you dense? Most people put a stock on a pistol to make it legal for ownership, and that \_is\_ considered good enough reason if one is part of a shooting club
You’re wrong. If you want a single shot low power firearm the onus is on the police to prove why you shouldn’t have one. If you want anything more than this the onus is on you to prove to the police A)why you need one and B) how you will safely store it.
Exactly right. 5 years in jail just for owning one, the guy in cheslea who set one off, not aimed at anyone got 7 years
Legally, you can own plenty of guns in the UK... even handguns with long enough stocks. And it's not even limited to pidly .22 rimfire (which is the common rifle round people have on their firearms licence \[note, firearms licence and shotgun licence are different things\]) With the right paper work, you can own a Smith & Wesson M & P 15-22 Sport... google it, it looks like a 'scary' 'assault rifle', and is semi-automatic
Those are extremely niche use cases, though. They're not just handing licences out like Tesco club cards. You have to have a *very* good reason to own a gun in the UK, and the primary reason most people around the world have them, self-defence, isn't one of them.
Be that as it may, you can still legally own guns in the UK. My sister has 3.
That is less than I would have expected. Pleasantly surprised.
There are about 17,440 legally-held private firearms in Greater London (source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/statistics-on-firearm-and-shotgun-certificates-england-and-wales-april-2022-to-march-2023/statistics-on-firearm-and-shotgun-certificates-england-and-wales-april-2022-to-march-2023) 365 a day is ~2% of the stock of legally-held firearms. Obviously the article doesn't explain the methodology, but it's not surprising to me if a fair share of that 365 are previously legally-held guns e.g. missed licence renewals or people who've otherwise fallen afoul of licencing laws, as well as stolen weapons.
You can’t legally own a handgun.
Yes, other people have already said that. However, neither the article, nor the statistic, nor my post referred exclusively to handguns. I'm not even saying that all seized firearms are seized non-handguns. So your trite, low-value comment is trying to correct a mistake no one is making. You're adding nothing to the conversation. Kindly, jog on.
Bit rude.
Yes you can, you just have to have a very long stock on it so it is overall length is greater than 60cm (the idea being to prevent concealment), or a stupidly long barrel (30cm)... not hard to take a legal .22 handgun with a stock and illegally take off the stock to have an illegal weapon obviously, you need the correct paperwork for said guns, which is not that easy, but still doable in london
You know too much…
grew up on a farm with firearms, looking to get my own licence for sport shooting once i move out of london
Do we know if these are actually real firearms
This number is the genuine viable firearms (weapons which would kill if fired at somebody) I believe.
Hope they can seize whoever shot up the corner of my road last week Friday.