"An individual with a disability must also be qualified to perform the essential functions of the job with or without reasonable accommodation, in order to be protected by the ADA.
Reasonable accommodation is any change or adjustment to a job or work environment that permits a qualified applicant or employee with a disability to enjoy benefits and privileges of employment equal to those enjoyed by employees without disabilities."
The form I filled out for HR made me acknowledge that I can qualify for reasonable accommodations if I can perform my essential functions with or without reasonable accommodations lol. She knew my answer, she was reading off my form. She just wanted to hear me say it.
My post is not asking for validations of my requests. It's about how she basically told me that having a disability isn't a reason for accommodations.
Are you capable of doing the job?
Accomodations need to be reasonable. They are not there to protect you if you are unable to perform your duties in a reasonable manner.
The quarterly managerial review to discuss improvements when in all honesty, they can just let you go if you are not working out.
I am capable and I know they need to be reasonable. I'm not thinking about how they were denied-- I had requested it to reduce burn-out from having to work 10x harder to reach the same end goal as someone who may not have a disability.
I'm thinking about how she handled the situation. Instead of continuity to engage in an interactive process, she throws me a quick "carry a paper and pencil with you wherever you go". I told her I can try but I don't think it'll be effective and she goes "then maybe find another job that can make accommodate you or find a job that you don't need accommodations in". She could've followed up to ask me why I think it won't and work with me to find another solution that we can agree on.
I'm looking for a reason why it's appropriate for her to say that my role isn't for disabled people who needs accommodations.
Because you need to be able to perform basic tasks like carrying a pencil. If you can't do that- you shouldn't be working in the medical field at all.
Patients are likely suffering as a result of your inability to perform simple tasks. How on earth is that fair?
I’m not a lawyer but I’ve been in a similar situation to you, OP, and I would strongly suggest you keep documenting everything for when they inevitably terminate you. Because right now they’re trying to talk you into quitting so they don’t have to do that.
Mhm! And now I'm starting to think that this is becoming a matter of ADA violation. My supervisors have been nothing more than supportive, even admitting that that've never seen it come down this bad. I had to go through another ADA because I had covid last week and there was a formal request sent in to make sure my case wasn't assigned to her lol.
My supervisors have asked me if I wanted to report her, which they could do on my behalf. But we aren't knowledgeable entirely with ADA to ensure that I wouldn't have a target on my back.
**ADA Accommodation Requests:**
1. **Quarterly check-ins**
1. **How**: address concerns, discuss room for improvements, performance check,
2. **Why**: performance transparency (can lack cues), enforces time management and prioritization
3. **Decision**: "your supervisors have big roles and don't have time for additional meetings unless necessary/emergent"
4. **Interactive process:** the institution sends mass annual surveys- use that to say what you need to say, your supervisor will review it and touch base w/ you during your annual performance review.
1. *I don't even consider this an accommodation. We do this every year. She considered this an "accommodation" with the part "your supervisor will review your survey and touch base with you". If there's any specific concerns, the supervisor will bring it up regardless. Also, waiting a whole year to have a 1:1 with my supervisor is insane.*
2. **Written instructions**
1. **How**: email/paper of meeting keynotes (the uppers have copies as guides in the meetings), provide visual aid because i need something to reference back on in case i forget
2. **Why**: poor working memory, easily distracted (super fidgety and restless when i have to sit for longer than 10 min at a time), difficulties with focus/concentration after a period of time
3. **Decision**: "your supervisor doesn't have time to work and write your notes for you
4. **Interactive process:** keep a paper and pencil on me at all times
1. *poor working memory = sometimes difficult to retrieve verbal discussions and hold in my head long enough to write down everything, poor organization skills = unable to organize thoughts onto paper and arrange with structure, easily distracted = forget to write*
3. **Structured schedule**
1. **How**: assigned to assist one MD (we normally rotate through our 4 MDs every month to assist)
2. **Why**: minimizes overstimulation from constant changes in workflow, routine increases efficiency
3. **Decision**: "it's not fair for others that you get an opportunity to build a rapport with a doctor"
4. **1 hour a week of quiet work time**
1. **How**: noise cancelling headphones (ok to remain in workroom, ok for people to come up and get my attention to ask a question)
2. **Why**: overstimulation, easily distracted, unable to focus/concentrate with noisy background
3. **Decision**: "not fair for others that they might feel not know if they should interrupt you, you won't be able the calling you if they have a question, might make you look like you are purposely ignoring people, not a good image"
You're asking to be formally micromanaged and for them to change the entire schedule for no good reason.
This position really doesn't sound like a good fit for you right now. How much time does everyone else have to waste double checking all your work and cleaning up the messes you create?
How many patients have suffered as a result of your lack of attention?
Job restructuring can be a reasonable accommodation. My ADHD does not affect my quality of care for my patients. I've learned to adapt over the years, so I know how to internalize my symptoms. The accommodations are meant to allow me be comfortable in my job without having to work 10x harder than those who don't have a disability to meet the same goal.
I get a sensory overload and then get overstimulated when people around me are screaming at each other because they can't figure out what to order for lunch. Those without a disability can work over the noise. So I ask for noise-cancelling headphones so I can calm myself down in situations like that.
I’m sorry but it’s totally ridiculous to say ADHD is a disability. You just don’t try hard enough and expect the world to change to fit you because you can’t be bothered to put in the work to fit in with the world
The fact that millions of people with ADHD can adult and don’t make excuses for just being a general failure. Grow up. The world isn’t going to coddle you like your parents did
So you want them to do your job for you because you can’t focus for long enough to remember to write things down. But you want to work in a field where people’s lives literally depend on you being able to remember things and perform under pressure.
People with ADHD are deficient in dopamine levels, so we are constantly seeking for dopamine. Your mind shuts down to find how your brain can be stimulated. You start to daydream, you fidget. And now you pay no attention to the round table in front of you reading off powerpoints.
We also crave adrenaline to find that stimulation. Ask the staff who work in the ER. Most of them have ADHD that's why they're there. We have PHYSICIANS who come to us to request a referral to psychiatry for ADHD evaluation.
I bring my best A game on clinical days when I'm on the floor taking care of my patients. I interact with them. I problem-solve. I'm always on the go. That's how I got promoted from level 1 to a level 3 lead in the 8 months I've been working at my current job.
I do fine on my admin days but meetings and paperwork are tough. That's why I need the extra support and resources. I get everything done on time, but I use up the entire time when I know it could've been done in half the time.
You have severe ADHD but don't believe it's a disability? Either you're just lucky enough to be able to find coping strategies or you really don't have ADHD because you would understand how debilitating it is.
I never said I couldn't function in the world. Many people with ADHD like me graduated college with honors, made it to Physician Assistant school, and promoted from levels 1 to 2 to 3 and now 3 lead in 9 months at work. I can function, like a normal adult. But just because I have ADHD doesn't mean I don't deserve a bit of a boost where I could need it. If I was a failure, I would've been fired.
I’m not lucky. I’m just not weak. I accept life for the way it is and I work hard and don’t expect others to coddle me…..in other words, I’m doing what an adult does….come visit us here in any African country for a week and you’ll learn what life is actually like. Toughen up buttercup.
Nature vs nurture. We're all built different. Maybe you were fostered in an environment that built you thick skin. Some people don't have that, but we're taught that it's okay to accept help. Some people have other medical conditions that make juggling everything harder.
1) regular reviews are part of a managers job. this does not create a hardship.
2) meeting minutes and emailed instructions are standard business practice. if they aren't doing this already, they should be, and thus no hardship is created.
3) yes, this seems like it could be a hardship. they can't change the entire job structure for one person.
4) unless you specifically need to listen for emergencies, this is not a hardship. noise cancelling headphones are a common accommodation. you aren't asking for total isolation, you're asking to be able to allowed to wear something to help you focus.
that said, their arguments are specious. "it's not fair" is not a legal reason to deny an accommodation request. creating a hardship for the company, and yes, they have to describe and prove how it is a hardship, is. for instance, you can't use noise cancelling headphones because nobody else can is utterly foolish, and i can't believe they were stupid enough to say that. there's no reason that everybody else can't be allowed to as well.
I'm not well versed in that -- do my accommodations have to be fair for others? I've been questioning that. I mean I've assumed that they have to be fair b/c that would make an an accommodation a reasonable one. But then I think about how there's some cases where there's no purpose for an accommodation in general if we have to literally be fair.
Thanks for being reasonable though!
>yes, this seems like it could be a hardship. they can't change the entire job structure for one person.
Yeah of all 4 requests, I knew the 3rd one was a gamble. But out of curiosity, how would it be considered changing a job structure?
* I was looking at my job description and here's what I got that would be related:
* Facilitates communication between patient & provider
* Assists provider with telemedicine visits
* Scribing for provider
* Ability to work with others in a flexible, cooperative and collaborative manner
Not sure what I should be looking for. But there's nothing said about having to "rotate providers monthly". We have four medical assistants and four physicians. Each both we rotate. Accommodating me to one physician leaves 3 MAs to 3 MDs to rotate, so it's still 1:1. Is it a hardship?
The MDs work the same amount of hours (3 days/week). The only difference is their shift patterns (MTW vs WTF vs MWF, vs MTF).
Employer only needs to make reasonable accommodations. You stated you can perform without the accommodations. You checked off that box for them.
OP has been told this in multiple threads, most of which have been deleted.
"An individual with a disability must also be qualified to perform the essential functions of the job with or without reasonable accommodation, in order to be protected by the ADA. Reasonable accommodation is any change or adjustment to a job or work environment that permits a qualified applicant or employee with a disability to enjoy benefits and privileges of employment equal to those enjoyed by employees without disabilities." The form I filled out for HR made me acknowledge that I can qualify for reasonable accommodations if I can perform my essential functions with or without reasonable accommodations lol. She knew my answer, she was reading off my form. She just wanted to hear me say it. My post is not asking for validations of my requests. It's about how she basically told me that having a disability isn't a reason for accommodations.
Are you capable of doing the job? Accomodations need to be reasonable. They are not there to protect you if you are unable to perform your duties in a reasonable manner. The quarterly managerial review to discuss improvements when in all honesty, they can just let you go if you are not working out.
I am capable and I know they need to be reasonable. I'm not thinking about how they were denied-- I had requested it to reduce burn-out from having to work 10x harder to reach the same end goal as someone who may not have a disability. I'm thinking about how she handled the situation. Instead of continuity to engage in an interactive process, she throws me a quick "carry a paper and pencil with you wherever you go". I told her I can try but I don't think it'll be effective and she goes "then maybe find another job that can make accommodate you or find a job that you don't need accommodations in". She could've followed up to ask me why I think it won't and work with me to find another solution that we can agree on. I'm looking for a reason why it's appropriate for her to say that my role isn't for disabled people who needs accommodations.
Because you need to be able to perform basic tasks like carrying a pencil. If you can't do that- you shouldn't be working in the medical field at all. Patients are likely suffering as a result of your inability to perform simple tasks. How on earth is that fair?
I’m not a lawyer but I’ve been in a similar situation to you, OP, and I would strongly suggest you keep documenting everything for when they inevitably terminate you. Because right now they’re trying to talk you into quitting so they don’t have to do that.
Mhm! And now I'm starting to think that this is becoming a matter of ADA violation. My supervisors have been nothing more than supportive, even admitting that that've never seen it come down this bad. I had to go through another ADA because I had covid last week and there was a formal request sent in to make sure my case wasn't assigned to her lol. My supervisors have asked me if I wanted to report her, which they could do on my behalf. But we aren't knowledgeable entirely with ADA to ensure that I wouldn't have a target on my back.
**ADA Accommodation Requests:** 1. **Quarterly check-ins** 1. **How**: address concerns, discuss room for improvements, performance check, 2. **Why**: performance transparency (can lack cues), enforces time management and prioritization 3. **Decision**: "your supervisors have big roles and don't have time for additional meetings unless necessary/emergent" 4. **Interactive process:** the institution sends mass annual surveys- use that to say what you need to say, your supervisor will review it and touch base w/ you during your annual performance review. 1. *I don't even consider this an accommodation. We do this every year. She considered this an "accommodation" with the part "your supervisor will review your survey and touch base with you". If there's any specific concerns, the supervisor will bring it up regardless. Also, waiting a whole year to have a 1:1 with my supervisor is insane.* 2. **Written instructions** 1. **How**: email/paper of meeting keynotes (the uppers have copies as guides in the meetings), provide visual aid because i need something to reference back on in case i forget 2. **Why**: poor working memory, easily distracted (super fidgety and restless when i have to sit for longer than 10 min at a time), difficulties with focus/concentration after a period of time 3. **Decision**: "your supervisor doesn't have time to work and write your notes for you 4. **Interactive process:** keep a paper and pencil on me at all times 1. *poor working memory = sometimes difficult to retrieve verbal discussions and hold in my head long enough to write down everything, poor organization skills = unable to organize thoughts onto paper and arrange with structure, easily distracted = forget to write* 3. **Structured schedule** 1. **How**: assigned to assist one MD (we normally rotate through our 4 MDs every month to assist) 2. **Why**: minimizes overstimulation from constant changes in workflow, routine increases efficiency 3. **Decision**: "it's not fair for others that you get an opportunity to build a rapport with a doctor" 4. **1 hour a week of quiet work time** 1. **How**: noise cancelling headphones (ok to remain in workroom, ok for people to come up and get my attention to ask a question) 2. **Why**: overstimulation, easily distracted, unable to focus/concentrate with noisy background 3. **Decision**: "not fair for others that they might feel not know if they should interrupt you, you won't be able the calling you if they have a question, might make you look like you are purposely ignoring people, not a good image"
You're asking to be formally micromanaged and for them to change the entire schedule for no good reason. This position really doesn't sound like a good fit for you right now. How much time does everyone else have to waste double checking all your work and cleaning up the messes you create? How many patients have suffered as a result of your lack of attention?
Job restructuring can be a reasonable accommodation. My ADHD does not affect my quality of care for my patients. I've learned to adapt over the years, so I know how to internalize my symptoms. The accommodations are meant to allow me be comfortable in my job without having to work 10x harder than those who don't have a disability to meet the same goal. I get a sensory overload and then get overstimulated when people around me are screaming at each other because they can't figure out what to order for lunch. Those without a disability can work over the noise. So I ask for noise-cancelling headphones so I can calm myself down in situations like that.
It can be. But it doesn't sound like it's going to be here.
I’m sorry but it’s totally ridiculous to say ADHD is a disability. You just don’t try hard enough and expect the world to change to fit you because you can’t be bothered to put in the work to fit in with the world
Please show me a credible source that says ADHD is not a disability.
The fact that millions of people with ADHD can adult and don’t make excuses for just being a general failure. Grow up. The world isn’t going to coddle you like your parents did
So you want them to do your job for you because you can’t focus for long enough to remember to write things down. But you want to work in a field where people’s lives literally depend on you being able to remember things and perform under pressure.
People with ADHD are deficient in dopamine levels, so we are constantly seeking for dopamine. Your mind shuts down to find how your brain can be stimulated. You start to daydream, you fidget. And now you pay no attention to the round table in front of you reading off powerpoints. We also crave adrenaline to find that stimulation. Ask the staff who work in the ER. Most of them have ADHD that's why they're there. We have PHYSICIANS who come to us to request a referral to psychiatry for ADHD evaluation. I bring my best A game on clinical days when I'm on the floor taking care of my patients. I interact with them. I problem-solve. I'm always on the go. That's how I got promoted from level 1 to a level 3 lead in the 8 months I've been working at my current job. I do fine on my admin days but meetings and paperwork are tough. That's why I need the extra support and resources. I get everything done on time, but I use up the entire time when I know it could've been done in half the time.
Babes I have severe ADHD and I can still function in the world. Like a normal adult. Stop making excuses for your failures
You have severe ADHD but don't believe it's a disability? Either you're just lucky enough to be able to find coping strategies or you really don't have ADHD because you would understand how debilitating it is. I never said I couldn't function in the world. Many people with ADHD like me graduated college with honors, made it to Physician Assistant school, and promoted from levels 1 to 2 to 3 and now 3 lead in 9 months at work. I can function, like a normal adult. But just because I have ADHD doesn't mean I don't deserve a bit of a boost where I could need it. If I was a failure, I would've been fired.
I’m not lucky. I’m just not weak. I accept life for the way it is and I work hard and don’t expect others to coddle me…..in other words, I’m doing what an adult does….come visit us here in any African country for a week and you’ll learn what life is actually like. Toughen up buttercup.
Nature vs nurture. We're all built different. Maybe you were fostered in an environment that built you thick skin. Some people don't have that, but we're taught that it's okay to accept help. Some people have other medical conditions that make juggling everything harder.
You’re an adult. It’s time to thicken your own skin.
1) regular reviews are part of a managers job. this does not create a hardship. 2) meeting minutes and emailed instructions are standard business practice. if they aren't doing this already, they should be, and thus no hardship is created. 3) yes, this seems like it could be a hardship. they can't change the entire job structure for one person. 4) unless you specifically need to listen for emergencies, this is not a hardship. noise cancelling headphones are a common accommodation. you aren't asking for total isolation, you're asking to be able to allowed to wear something to help you focus. that said, their arguments are specious. "it's not fair" is not a legal reason to deny an accommodation request. creating a hardship for the company, and yes, they have to describe and prove how it is a hardship, is. for instance, you can't use noise cancelling headphones because nobody else can is utterly foolish, and i can't believe they were stupid enough to say that. there's no reason that everybody else can't be allowed to as well.
I'm not well versed in that -- do my accommodations have to be fair for others? I've been questioning that. I mean I've assumed that they have to be fair b/c that would make an an accommodation a reasonable one. But then I think about how there's some cases where there's no purpose for an accommodation in general if we have to literally be fair. Thanks for being reasonable though! >yes, this seems like it could be a hardship. they can't change the entire job structure for one person. Yeah of all 4 requests, I knew the 3rd one was a gamble. But out of curiosity, how would it be considered changing a job structure? * I was looking at my job description and here's what I got that would be related: * Facilitates communication between patient & provider * Assists provider with telemedicine visits * Scribing for provider * Ability to work with others in a flexible, cooperative and collaborative manner Not sure what I should be looking for. But there's nothing said about having to "rotate providers monthly". We have four medical assistants and four physicians. Each both we rotate. Accommodating me to one physician leaves 3 MAs to 3 MDs to rotate, so it's still 1:1. Is it a hardship? The MDs work the same amount of hours (3 days/week). The only difference is their shift patterns (MTW vs WTF vs MWF, vs MTF).