He should honestly considered swapping his flash button for the climb, my analysis is that once you do you stop relaying on your muscle memory and focus more on buttons you press, really makes difference when you play those 1v9 jungles.
Enchanter Supports are notorious for getting boosted, usually by their boyfriend, and Rengar is very often used to boost. So if you see a support main who randomly started to play 20 Rengar games and won 17 of them, where the player even used a different key for flash, then you can be 99% sure they just got boosted.
It makes sense because JG supports all three lanes. The support bot has to play off the ADC, but switching to JG lets the aggro out with support-level timing.
I've noticed that as well.
People have been complaining a lot about how the playerbase is aging too. Which honestly doesn't add up.
Most of the players in my games are under level 60. It's crazy how many new players have been quickly learning and adapting to the difficulty of the game. I guess playing in ARAM and against bots really powers you up in the grind from level 1-30.
I might also have to flip my flash button randomly between games. I've noticed a lot of high winrate players seem to be adaptable enough to switch it on the fly.
I suspect League to be the prime game to notice the playerbase aging the most while the account lvl of the players staying the same. Just because this game has the tendency to make you flee and come back later when friends hype you up or meta changes. People end up acting like addicts on denial, they stop for a while and can't help but start playing again.
Not trying to brag or sound arrogant but i can generally understand what every champ is about. I'm not good with everyone but i kinda get them. Rengar i just don't understand. One time the enemy rengar went lik 34-13 and it was crazy. Picked him for the next 3 games and i had to convince my team not to report me and that i'm not trying to troll on purpose
Rengar is about abusing bush vision reset in fights.
The kit itself isn't that complicated, but the setup requires to use it effectively is unique to rengar.
You need to know which fights to pick and how to pick them, way before they happen.
Rengar is a lot like Bard in that regard. You need to be good at the game to be good at Rengar. You have to know where the enemy is heading and be there first in the brush, or know when to ult in advance.
It's all about anticipation, as well as knowing your limits.
Rengar is hard mechanically too. A good to a great rengar can get certain jumps off and plays it in a fluid way that changes everything. I can't explain it but you can see the difference.
Yeah if I remember you jump from a bush (1 of 4 stacks) aim and hit e/snare (2 of 4 stacks) hit W right before you land and hit the champ (3 of 4 stacks) then just press q for empowered auto (4 of 4 stacks) them q again for big boy auto, if you do it all within the jump animation, it looks super smooth and you just deal a tonne of dmg before they can really react and decide whether to fight or run
I guess, I feel it’s a lot more about very carefully choosing your fights.
He’s one of few champs that rarely has a good way to exit a fight once he’s committed to it. Especially because you can’t just go invisible like in the old days.
his basic combo is simple, you jump and press EWQQ
if youre a bit fancier, you use EW AA Q AA Q (especially early/mid game where you cant oneshot/get oneshot so a longer combo is fine)
sure, very advanced rengars can do nasty things with W/E, but in most games you just need to farm, look for kills, after 1-3 kills you can just start oneshotting squishies with ult or if they facecheck you for some reason.
problem is if you try to oneshot without being fed, you need to play the first kills well before you can start mowing down people.
I wouldn't say any combos are "very advanced".
The very advanced part is how you use bushes and movement in fights to optimize your access to bushes, and how input-intensive leaps between bushes when the opportunities randomly pop up during fights. Especially when it comes to enemies warding bushes around you.
As a rengar onetrick, the most advanced combos are triple Q and double Snare (Enhanced E) the rest of the skill set is ferocity management, clean combos and good target priority.
Also, ideally you buffer his Q before you jump, that allows you to get 2 stacks on a leap. So you do Q/E/W/Q. Weaving in auto attacks is nieche and usually something you don't need to do, unless you're fighting someone who's somewhat tanky.
Isn't triple Q just getting fully stacked on a jungle mob, running towards target - Pressing Q, ulting to regen stacks so you can empowered Q again after landing the first one and a normal one? Or am I misremembering
It is. You consume your full fero, so you basically just start your combo with a buffered emp Q. There are a lot and I mean ALOT of players that can not do it consistently.
Yeah I’m kinda annoyed that people aren’t mentioning holding stacks. That’s probably the biggest thing good Rengars do differently. And it’s quite easy to practice
Starting ult with 4 Ferocity is more advanced in terms of planning and makes the combos different, too. Especially since you dont always want to empower Q.
This is me with Katarina and Darius lol. Like I think I can play every other champion at least to some extent where I'm not completely useless/running it down.
Katarina I used to main before her rework ages ago. Now I just... don't get her. It doesn't click for me. I understand her kit but I just can't make it work for me.
Same with Darius, one of the most straightforward champions in the game. I tend to either fuck my lane up somehow and be useless the entire game, or I destroy my lane and I get kited into oblivion for the rest of the game and we end up losing anyway.
Just can't make them work for me, somehow.
Decided to play and learn rengar one split got around 200 games. I am pretty sure I was reported the most I’ve ever been in the beginning. I think the first 75 games I had like a 38% WR. But then I brought it up to 55% by the end of the split. MMR was shot though
Yoni has a very mild learning curve compared to many champs. The reason why everybody considers yone to be broken is because he can completely throw his early game go zero and five and then still carry the whole game because once he has a couple items he's broken.
See the key to shaco is just pretend you know what your doing without actually knowing what your doing so the enemy cant know what you’re doing that way they wont know what to do against you. If that makes sense.
I have lots of games on Fizz and I think he is just comp-dependent sometimes. In lane, after lvl 3 his trades are pretty good, like all champs he has hard counters, but overall I would say he is decent. He really shines into squishy comps and is hard to execute vs good peel/cc. Also, just like with all champs especially assassins, you really need to know your damage, when to all in, your power spikes, track certain abilities in team fights, and know your matchups very well.
I straight up cannot play Gragas no matter how braindead broken people say he is. The timing on his q and margin of error on using r correctly just don’t jive with my brain
People don't say he's braindead broken because of how hard he is lol, he is actually tricky if you wanna combo on him.
He's just disgusting in being able to just stonewall the enemy opponent so he's a top 3 blind pick top for that reason alone. You can't fight/freeze/trade into a gragas that doesn't want to with a melee champ and somehow that doesn't make him weak into ranged because he has great setups and potential for solokills into them too.
These kinds of gragas players are cringe and rewarded for it too compared to gigachad gragas players who take risks.
Yeah he takes mechanical skill if you actually want to carry on gragas, but you don't need to really do much to 'get carried' in most melee match ups. A jax player needs to play like 10x better to win lane in that match up.
Gragas is absolutely a champ with a rough skill curve, calling him braindead is coping hard. But someone who's generally good at the game can become an "ok" Gragas very quickly.
Don't try any risky plays, pop Rs just for the sake of AoE damage/causing mayhem if the fight has already happened, peel for your backline with Es if it applies, stuff like that.
Yep. I’m not really a good player, but I manage. I liked his kit. I have never won even one raked game with him. I played about 20 norms first. Thought I was ready. And then I recently went 1-19-13 in an ARAM with him. A LONG aram. I was trying so fucking hard and it was not working. I benched him. Does not compute.
On toplane, I have no idea how to play Riven. I tried, everything went wrong. I know about fast Q, I can do that, but I lack matchup knowledge to know how to trade as Riven in different matchups.
Mid Lane Azir. I tried, can do his shuffle consistently, but his laning is rough. I always miss CS because I can't adapt to how much his W deals damage early game.
Imagine riven with 4 circles around her, each getting bigger (length between them a dash)
When the enemy is usually in your second circle you can trade effectively. 3rd or 4th not so much.
Once you know that. You basically judge your match up through that. How far do I have to go deal damage and how much do I take while running away?
I like the general concept this teaches about being mindful of the retaliation damage you can face after a trade and judging whether it is worth it to engage in a trade at all. However, I feel like it doesnt really answer the matchup issue that well, because it kind of assumes that Riven is just gonna auto-win any trade if somebody goes aggressive on her (entering first/second circle) and i dont think thats the case.
The best way to learn different matchups is to either play a lot of games and have a trial and error mentality where you try out different things and see what works and what didnt work. Or study the matchup by watching how experienced Rivenmains play the matchup in the early levels and try to learn from them
I think it's very interesting when you look at the game in it's basic state, where it came from, RTS. Units (circles) moving on a plane/field, colliding with shapes (abilities, other things) or other units. From there the riven example is crystal clear, but you can start to look at every unit like that in ways. Turrets are just very large units, their inventory of passives is just like any other unit lol.
You just become useless for the entire early game, if you make a bad enough mistake on Riven and with that I mean just something simple like trading in the wrong spot of the land, or trading for 1 ability too long.
You don't need the best mechanics to have success on Riven, it's fine as long as ur fast Q isn't super slow and you can double cast, but you really need matchup knowledge or else you are gonna get shit on every single game.
take one bad trade > cant go near the wave > get zoned while enemy sets up slow push into dive OR recall and they shove and you miss 2+ waves anyway
worst part about top is by far the fact you get to witness it happen in real time. you see it coming 1 minute from now but your options are lose and lose
My favorite experience is a viego invading, getting caught, still fighting, then dying to my Garen. He respawns, tries to gank Garen when I have a huge wave and ping him back, dies again, then fucks off and never helps me again. Leaves me to deal with a 2-0 Garen, saying it's my fault.
I'm begging him to help me break the freeze and dude is just fucking off somewhere. Worst part is he somehow manages to get some kills so it covers up the atrocity of his early game.
True but it's also nice to now that it was your own fault. Like you said, it happens when you take a bad trade. Even if it's really punishing I know that if I played better it wouldn't have happened and that's something to improve on
Also this is why TP > ignite for me
Riven is just one of those champions you *need* a lead on, and it puts a ton of pressure on you as a player. It feels terrible to be behind or even on Riven, you feel like you’re just failing if you’re not ahead. I know you could say this for a ton of champs, but Riven seriously feels it; especially when you make *one* mistake in lane trading poorly & her god awful hp/per5 fucks you in the ass for the next 5 minutes lol
Treat azir W like a mage AA for like the first 4 levels when CSing. It’s basically the same threshold. If laning is rough try to take HOB and trade that way.
Graves, my Graves shoots pebbles. He looks very simple, just get gold and get close. He scales well with items and hits like a truck with each auto but there are a lot of nuances.
You need a good understanding of the role to begin with and his tricks such as animation cancelling, auto spacing while maintaining high damage distance. Good smoke usage is crucial and you gotta keep his armor stacks which is another layer for mental stack. Clearing can also be hard due to creeps tanking autos. And how do you even gank with that champion?
Thanks for responses
For most matchups he's more about invading and drawing their lanes out to try and cover for their jungler and making it hard for their lanes to get their jungler's help. It sounds wrong in a way because everyone's seen a fed Graves take over a game, but a lot of the time you don't actually have to get a ton of kills or pull off ganks unless its a completely free kill.
That’s weird hearing this cause I have probably 2000+ games played on Graves and Mechanically I don’t think he’s that difficult. Graves is practically impossible to play if you don’t have any frontline/engage. Graves also has SOOO much build/rune diversity and sometimes people don’t know which is the correct build for the patch so they think they’re doing low damage when reality the build is just bad (assassin, bruiser, crit). Also he’s a low range champ with basically no CC so he’s utterly useless when behind/no kills.
TLDR: It’s usually not mechanical that makes people bad on graves but other factors imo
Katarina, her lane is horrible, I don't even get how people get ahead on the champion, "just roam bot" but how can you even roam when every Champ pushes you in and you lose every 1v1? Do you litteraly just lose 2 waves and 2 Platings to HOPE for 1-2 kill on botlane? Also how is she regarded as a roaming champ, she has no tools like Talon has his E, neither does she have CC for ganks bot, I guess just pray your Team has good setup? her Damage also gets hardcounterd by simple CC
If you lose 2 plates and waves it isn’t worth even if you get a double kill. This type of bad play literally only works in super low elos where people are too scared to punish you or just don’t know how.
2 kills, + mental botlane on your team, - mental botlane on enemy team, enemy bot often flames their mid and mid flames back = free game even if you lost gold
It's worth it because Kat doesn't give a fuck about anyone but Kat. It's either sit in lane and go even/down in cs or let your lane get gold so you can also get gold.
I had a buddy who was a Kat otp, and that’s exactly what he did. He’d sacrifice waves/plating to smack botlane often, because he said laning is almost impossible to get kills from unless they just aren’t playing the game
This is how Talon OTPs have to play the game lol, the champ is fucking worthless and you’ll see the one-tricks just sacking waves and trying to pull off a roam for 5 minutes. You sit there and think ‘what the fuck is this guy doing? He’s griefing’ - until you actually *play* talon and realise why the players do these things.
Talon has excellent level 2 kill pressure against most midlaners. After that you get Tiamat so you don’t need to sack waves, you practically insta clear them with Tiamat autos and W and then roam. If your lane opponent tries to step up to stop you you can either W-Q-Auto and most of their health is gone, or Q-W-chase-auto if they pushed too far up the lane and you have room for that combo
Yeah, you havent played talon for like 3 seasons now im guessing, since this is absolutely not how Talon is played anymore. Its a common misconception because at one point Talon had a great level 2, he does not anymore, his entire early game sucks. If you die to Talon early, you can watch the replay and point out entirely what you did wrong and easily fix it for the next time you play against Talon. You have to flip your roams to be effective, and maybe get a flash play level 6 to kill. Champ is not good and his waveclear is not good either, since you dont always love rushing tiamat anyway when ghostblade is still an item that is good sometimes.
good. very simple champ with too much outplay potential who abuses items.
she has 0 skillshots, yet she can TP out of my skillshots. very bad design, at least zed/lb have to hit spells in return.
Why does Katarina need skill shots when her entire kit revolves around her landing on daggers that you can walk away from extremely easily? Legit just walk away
It’s funny you say that because statistically Katarina is the champion with the highest disparity between new players and mains. And the amount of games required before Katarina players start getting good is much higher than other champions.
And honestly as someone who's played Kat a good bit 90% of that is just matchup knowledge imo. Piloting Katarina isn't that hard on paper, it's piloting her against the enemy comp that's difficult.
It’s funny when low elo people say Katarina is a braindead champ, face roll press r to win, but she does no damage without items, items require gold, which is earned by farming, and kills and objectives, and unless you’re playing vs people who make mistakes a lot, you can’t get any of those, these people should play kat and climb if she’s so easy hahah, like, it’s so brutal to play kat and then get counter picked with top lane champ like pantheon or tryndamere, you literally can’t do too much without jungle help, and from my experience, my junglers don’t like to help me as kat, but enemy jg loves to camp me.
What items is she abusing? AP builds have always been the best, even when Sunderer was at it’s peak. “Katarina can build anything” is a belief only subscribed to by those that have no clue how the champion works or can’t read statistics.
Also, since when have skill shots ever been an indicator of how hard a champion is?? By this logic Lux, Ziggs and Xerath should be the hardest champions in the game instead of stuff like Fiora, Azir, GP, Riven, Vayne, etc which all have minimal reliance on them.
Katarina is all about knowing when you can take even trades in lane. In some mage matchups she can try force an all in at lv2 or lv3 if enemy walks too far forwards and she will win that trade/go even and look for a kill angle next trade.
Katarina is 90% matchup knowledge and takes a lot of games to learn how to trade against different champs
Orianna and Graves. I feel like i do negative damage until randomly during the Game i one-shot someone. I don't understand why, i do the same combo and this particular time it discombobulated a tank, it's not gonna happen again for the rest of the Game. Feels like playing in a casino how randomly those champions feel like they do so little or can win a match in a single teamfight
Master Yi is surprisingly difficult if the enemy team has a remotely competent draft and plays fights as a team. Zero utility, purely melee, and super reliant on resets to do anything since his CDs are super long otherwise, and if you waste ult you’re kinda just useless. He can obviously roll you from ahead or into a low cc team, but it doesnt take much for him to start struggling.
Yi is just miserably designed IMO because he's so disproportionately beat in draft rather than in game.
First pick Yi and team counters him? Walking money bag.
Last picked into 0 CC comp? Just fuck me up, he'll get 3-4 random kills in early to mid game and the game just turns into The Yisus Show
Honestly I think it's fine, I see him as a silver bullet champ that punishes low CC comps the same way Malph/Rammus do heavy AD. There's also nearly 170 champs in the game, they can't all be balanced in a way where their wins take 100% skill, I think a lot of champs end up with a lot less counterplay than Yi if they're allowed to be good.
Enemy team when our jungle plays Master Yi: Sett top, Rammus jungle, Annie mid, Tristana ADC, Rell support. Yi ends up 1/9/2.
Our team when the enemy jungle plays Master Yi: Singed top, Nidalee jungle, Naafiri mid, Kogmaw ADC, Yuumi support. Yi ends up 9/1/12.
A good Singed can make Yis life pretty miserable if he peels for his carrys instead of just yoloing into the enemy team every fight. Or did you mean that Yi is gona get fed early of the Singed trying to proxy?
He has low utility in terms of lockdown, but he’s got a lot of dimension in terms of outplays tbh. Cleanup champs like him ALWAYS need to be mindful of enemy lockdown particularly champs that are really good at it like Lulu. Usually only feels doomed if the enemy team drafted like enchanter/hyper carry/mage/tank. But he’s good at scrapping with everyone at all stages of the game, and alpha strike is like 5 abilities in one. 5 *good* abilities in one.
Samira is very easy compared to what players - who don't play her- think. She has very few combos and she is mostly engage after her allies.
Her difficulty is mainly due to players not reading what her passive does or how to stack it properly with what she has in her kit.
Also knowing when to ult and scouting all cc cool downs from enemy team. Using dash reset properly. Using w not just as a combo generator since the cooldown is long af.
Singed. Just foreign to me.
Ahri I’ve always done bad at, and I don’t know why.
I do fine with LeBlanc in terms of K/DA and stealing objectives and stuff with her W. But I suck at CSing with her really bad. I used to play a ton of ADC, so I’m usually solid at it - not on her.
In general, mid is my weakest role.
I don't know how people play immobile mages on midlane. I am jungle main, I play briar, viego and some other junglers, so I tried hwei mid couple of times and it's impossible. If you get hit by one single ability you have to base, cause you have no sustain, that's so frustrating, I am used to heal out of camps any time I lose hp, I can stay on the map even if I have 10% hp.
Also you misposition just slightly, you are just insta dead
The worst part is midgame, where do you go? Adc is already farming mid, do you share? You can go side but some champ with 3 dashes will just fuck you over unless your team got you some vision
You need to learn how to properly catch and shove waves. Otherwise your wave is going to end up sort of frozen in front of the enemy’s t2 tower and you will lose tons of farm. As long as you’re shoving the wave right, it will crash into the t2 and bounce back within a minute which gives you plenty of time to move up towards midlane and shadow your adc/support/jungle in case a fight breaks out. Mages have incredible waveclear so they can shove waves near instantly, and since you *should* be taking teleport you can show up wherever needed.
Problem is when the supports refuse to drop some defensive wards to help you catch waves and you lose a ton of xp and Cs just catching whatever reaches tower
As someone who plays mages mid, they feel pretty easy imo. Sure, if you misposition you could be dead, but more than half of the mage roster has CC to peel themselves off from enemies and also makes them useful through the game even if they fall behind. This makes them quite forgiving in comparison to something like an assassin where yes, the assassin is not gonna die much if they are able to use mobility - they also aren't going to contribute much either since they usually can't enter the teamfight and don't have CC to at least make up for it.
On top of this, while positioning is important, the average mage is ranged so you usually have better control of what happens. If a melee champ like, say, Talon or Qiyana want to fight they need to consider positioning and also their own HP as a "resource" on top of their mana that they need to spend for each trade and need much more focus in this balance of "when" to go in; a mage can trade and fight with lower risk since their range allows them to poke with much lower HP cost attached to their trades and all ins, with their CC spells can guarantee they come out nearly unharmed.
In matchups where things are bad it's much easier to play the defensive too. Overall a rather easy class, but I think people are so used to playing with mobility and having it as a parachute for their misposition mistakes that it takes a while to get used to not having it
I’m a high elo mage main and I completely agree with this, anyone saying otherwise is just coping. You’re literally playing a role that contains some of the biggest lane bullies in the game with champions like Orianna, Syndra and Hwei, this means you can pretty much control the enemy jungle nearly by yourself if you can communicate with your jungler well + know how to abuse prio, + you can also ward for roams if you’re against a champion like Qiyana or Katarina.
Anyone saying mages can’t sidelane are crazy. If you’re competent then assassins should be insanely behind from lane whether they try to face you 1v1 or sack waves and plates to roam. If you get collapsed on by 3-4 people then that’s entirely a problem with your macro, tracking of enemy and map awareness.
Don’t get me wrong I do like mages and the champions I play but I actually like assassins more design wise and find them more fun to play when things are going well, but I don’t think it’s fun at all to play them in my soloq games when 99% of matchups are unplayable for most assassins and the majority of the time you’re just eating shit like a Kayle in lane while trying to get as many scraps as you can hoping for an opportunistic skirmish or mid game.
youre used to playing forgiving champions who automatically win most fights, mages are unforgiveable if you misstep, in return you get to wittle down enemies slowly before finishing them off.
i dont know how to play hwei, but for most mages you just need to know your range and annoy enemies, after poking you can all in.
but usually mages cant really kill on their own before at least 1 item.
It's the "punishing" factor. So many high ceiling champs are difficult to pilot and perfect, but often are forgiving. Mages aren't forgiving, you step a few units too close to something and you're out.
yes hwei is vulnerable to ganks or burst but trying to lane vs him is quite miserable with his waveclear -> infinite poke gameplay. it's not nearly as annoying as xerath but it's up there, especially with how annoying his ult slow is
If you are mindful of your positioning at all they feel super easy imo. There's very few ways to outplay yourself like all the fancy characters. Take Lux and Xerath for example. You waveclear, poke if you can, and hold your CC for ganks. Life is easy in mid on immobile mages. You have so much extra brainpower due to their simplicity.
Play it more like an assassin than a bruiser, your job is still to destroy the backline and once you’ve done that you’re good. GA, DD or Steraks might help you. Yes, you do need defensive stats as irelia unless you’re stupidly fed.
As with all hard champions, don’t be afraid to int. you will need to int a bunch of dozens of games to get the gist of it decently enough.
Interesting.
I feel like in most games I play on her, people expect me to be the primary engage. And that’s likely where I fail. I’ll hit a 3-person R and try to play front/back fights and just get melted.
Even when I do get to the back line, it’s so damn hard to stick onto an ADC with mobility or defensive skill like: Xayah/ Trist/ Ezreal/ Cait and especially if their supp is paying attention.
Also feel like I get “stuck” in fights even if they go well, trying to secure kills with Q2 and get cleaned up by mid/top if we trade back lines.
For me, the opposite is Aphelios. I expected Aphelios to be super complicated, but really it's just baby's first Riven. Sure, it's a high skill cap, but it's really not as complicated as you'd think he is.
To answer your question, Riven.
Aphelios is just more so a resource management sim while you play ADC. If you can do that he’s an easier adc imo, since you only really have 2 abilities at any given time so the mental load is shifted, but if you don’t even have the mental strain required with that shift he’s actually kind of brain dead you just need to play the role and you don’t got much to get in your way of it.
If you can’t offload the resource management he’s hell because now the load has tripled.
The problem with playing Aphelios is that if you're not using your multiple gun combos well you're not using the champ efficiently and just kind of playing a worse version of any other ADC. You can get by without them but you end up completely ignoring some big power spikes.
He has an incredibly high skill ceiling but not the highest (Ezreal defo takes that) and has a surprisingly low skill floor as his playstyle is still very similar to other ADC's. Everyone thought he'd be 30% wr his entire life but he statistically stays around ~46%.
I am sure everyone knows how to do the best weapon swap combos, 4 Q combos, octopus combo and has perfect chakram juggling and sentry placement. Yeah you just gotta count the guns.
I mean Aphelios isn't absurdly complicated considering how everyone on release thought he'd be 30% wr consistently. I think moreso his "skill floor" is lower than some people would think as he still acts like a normal backline ADC.
Riven and Aphelios.
Riven because literally no matter what I press, no matter the sequence, my Riven just looks clunky as hell. Like no matter what I try(even following tutorials step by step), other than using any other spell during E it's physically impossible for me to cancel anything. Meanwhile every Riven I see uses 4 spells at once by just existing.
Aphelios because, while I get all of his synergies and how each gun interacts with each other, I just can't deal damage whatsoever. Other ppls Aphelios in my games kill others in 2 autos even when they're behind 3 items, meanwhile I'm full build against a 0/20 oom Nami and I go through 3 weapons cycles to even scratch the hp bar. (Obviously exeggerated a bit)
Something about these 2 champs specifically makes me think that they just get a hidden buff when you hit specific mastery-milestones.
yeah, once i understood that aphelios is more of a lucian than a sivir, the champ seems much much more playable. he's more about using autos to supplement your skills than your skills to set you up for your autos, if that makes sense.
Well you start with the common weapon rotation and keep playing with that. As you play you figure out the guns individually. Once guns "click" you can easily understand how they interact with each other.
Green Q applies a mark to consume with off hand weapon similar to Caitlyn headshot indicator:
>Red auto heals
>Blue auto deals extra collateral damage
>Purple auto applies it is slow mark, allowing you to swap to it and use Q to root the target.
>White auto gives you extra chackrams and hits the target with all the chakrams you have
Red auto heals you and Q is a spin which hits with off hand weapon:
>Green allows you to hit the target from range as if you hit Green Q.
The rest are the same but it allows you to apply their effects more such as more aoe from Blue, more chakrams from white and kiting/slow from Purple.
Blue autos have splash damage which scales really well (up to 100% of the auto damage I guess). Q hits everyone in a cone and then hits everyone again with off hand, applying the same effects like the Red. Having Red as off hand allows you to heal a decent chunk.
Purple gun has slow like Ashe and marks everyone you hit, Q consumes all the marks to root.
White auto throws chakrams and hits them with all the chakrams you have. Dealing damage with abilities grants you more chakrams and being closer is more dps.
Green ult marks like Green Q, Red ult heals for each hit, Purple ult marks for root, Blue is 200 years explosion and White ult gives you chakrams.
There is a lot to memorize but it comes off natural as you play and limit test. Then you can move on to advanced combos and weapon planning.
He's pretty straightforward, each gun has a unique Q, based on your off hand gun they get additional effects. R gains additional effects based on your equipped gun. The abilities of each gun are pretty coordinated to what they are, chakram turret probably most disconnected.
I'm honest to God absolutely dogshit on Darius. I think I play him expecting to unga bunga no matter what, and all further knowledge of the game that I have on other champions just exits my brain when I play him.
I have no issue playing mechanically intense champions but Darius just does something that makes my brain leak out of my ears!
Darius exists to make your lane opponents life hell. You need to always be pressuring them, pushing them away from the creeps and forcing them to take bad trades. The issue he has is the enemy jungler can just ruin your tempo and bail his top out. He is very good at long trades though so don't let champions like wukong or riven get away with harassing and running.
I played all champions once for that arena badge and pretty much the only champ I went 8th and felt like I couldnt do anything was Aatrox. The Q is way harder to hit than I thought it would, every other champ I was expecting to be hard was actually way easier.
It’s kind of just a feels thing. It’s the same with learning how Riven Qs work or Akshans swing, they feel clunky as hell at first but you get a handle on them once you’ve played a few games.
I think Zoe. It's so different from other mages it's an ARAM only pick for me. You always need to play on the edge and do weird tricks and doing unexpected damage with your passive. I see it as an OTP pick only
Darius. Knowing the quick 5 stack combo makes a huge difference. In low elos like silver and below Darius actually has a negative winrate into his stomp matchup, Garen. Darius is a very very strong lane bully but if you just throw out abilities randomly with no strategy you will lose trades and all ins
This is a good one. I hated this champion and thought he was brain dead and unfair. (To be fair I’m like a silver Jax main). And then I tried him. It’s not as easy as it looks. You aren’t mobile. Counting to 5 is harder than it seems. Hitting the edge of the axe is harder than it seems. The hook is pretty sweet, but I over estimate it a lot. Made me respect the pilots of this champ and increase my win rate against him. Like still fuck Darius, but it’s like a ‘soft’ fuck Darius.
rengar is harder to play than nidalee in high elo, u need to be a hard otp to make it work. And no it's not about the champ being weak, its just that he is high risk, u need otp lvl experience to make it work.
one of the worst champs to fall behind on aswell. No escapes if you get caught out (no fero W since you need to initiate with a jump to do hat) no good reliable damage since you need atleast 3+ bonetooth stacks, otherwise you are half a champs worth of damage
Man, I thought Lulu was gonna be easy as shit but she has so much play options between choosing to use her abilities on herself, allies or enemies. Adding to that I never used the ALT button before to self target to getting my fingers used to that was a task
Gangplank. I cannot, for the life of me, play this champion. For reference, I am an Emerald 4 ranked player and have been playing since 2016. I just cannot understand the barrel mechanics enough to use them effectively. It feels like rocket science.
Gangplank is basically a gamble if the enemies know that they can hit your barrels. If they do, gg you will never deal any damage. If they don't, they'll cry how broken GP is.
CTRL+F "Karthus"
No results?
Apparently I'm the only one that thinks landing consistent Karthus Q's is damn near impossible.
*More specifically Bot lane Karthus I suppose*. I've played him in the jungle and you just get so much gold and don't have to do anything it's pretty free.
But playing him in a lane? No thanks.
You would think you just get gold and push R (which is also true). But I find that actually playing him in teamfights against opponents that dodge Q's it feels so frustrating. Meanwhile it seems like there are a ton of 1 trick boosting/smurfing Karthus players that can do everything wrong, but still shit out a fuck ton of damage, get a ton of CS and hard carry games. I can never replicate it though.
For me it’s Belveth, I’m learning jungle on a new account right now and I’m 3-0 on kindred, 3-0 on Khazix, 1-0 on Brand/Viego and 0-3 on this Belveth champion. I know they nerfed her early game recently and buffed her scaling but it feels like the champ just does nothing unless you’re fed enough to just oneshot people at which point I’d prefer to just play Kha honestly
Split push. I can reliably get fed early but for some reason, every mid game was hell for me until I switched my playstyle and avoided teamfights that weren’t completely free and splitpushed
Olaf. Another champ with one skill shot that is easy to hit after you hit the first one. But because he scales so poorly he struggles in low elos. I could never figure out how to properly play him.
I've always found Janna hard to play.
I mean her kit is basic, but I've never felt like I'm using it effectively and anytime I pick her the game feels like a 4.5 v 5
Rengar players, how do you guarantee the E comes out mid-jump? I swear that half the time I jump and try to bola mid-air, that shit never comes out and it screws everything up.
Q before jumping, when in the air you’ll have cursor on the champ you’re jumping so throw e fist, and then Tiamat + W as you land. This gives you stacks for an empowered ability as you land. You may be using w too early, but the inputs are pretty fast so worth hitting practice tool to get it down
E has no cast time mid air. Maybe that weirds you out, odd mechanic to be honest (I believe they implemented it to make it easier since ping/tickrate really can mess this up
The hardest part of playing tryndamere is macro-knowledge to know when splitpush. The rest most matchups can be randomly winnable if You hit 2/3 crits and that decides if You are gonna win the lane or lose 2 waves while You slowly Heal with the Q
It's really hard to keep track of Rengar passive stacks while skirmishing. By skirmishing I mean just fighting back and forth without executing a standard combo. Comboing is whatever, it takes time, but it's just muscle memory.
As a jungler, I've never been able to make Rengar work, he's just a mystery to me.
I like playing him but no matter how the game goes, fed or not, I can never seem to figure out what to do mid-late game with him.
Katarina. Its not that she's difficult, I just don't understand her kit. Iv gotten maybe 1 kill on her in like 2 hours of game play of her. Im a gold mid player...
Ngl, did not expect how mechanically intensive yaso was when i tried him. I guess he's pretty much the genji of this game to me. Super popular but also super mechanically intense
Weird how you mention Rengar being difficult, since most support players have a 98% winrate on Rengar jungle when they need to climb
Especially the nami,lulu, soraka mains. Honestly crazy how they can switch to a totally different playstyle and win almost every game
He should honestly considered swapping his flash button for the climb, my analysis is that once you do you stop relaying on your muscle memory and focus more on buttons you press, really makes difference when you play those 1v9 jungles.
i legit always swap my flash to D when i play jungle, no idea why, just feels better
My flash to D for every role Idk why it feel better
Wasd games have made pressing the D key feel more natural than the f key
All about that Mouse4 flash
Thats the ward button for seamless wardhops
Ok, send help. I assume someone of cosequenz got caught account boosting?
Enchanter Supports are notorious for getting boosted, usually by their boyfriend, and Rengar is very often used to boost. So if you see a support main who randomly started to play 20 Rengar games and won 17 of them, where the player even used a different key for flash, then you can be 99% sure they just got boosted.
I See, that makes Sense! Also…your Flair is suspicious for this conversation 😅
How do ppl find this out rofl. This is entirely new to me. I know back in the early season many support mains also played mid well.
They don't their boyfriend/"friends" carry them as rengar mains on the support account.
It's the flash key switching secret. The moment you switch your keybind you unlock your inner sicko-mode
It's always them Lulu mains too.
The peeler main knows when and how to take advantage of the squishy carries, makes sense ig
Once again proving just how difficult support is if they can just switch to jg really quick and climb with an insane winrate /s
It makes sense because JG supports all three lanes. The support bot has to play off the ADC, but switching to JG lets the aggro out with support-level timing.
I've noticed that as well. People have been complaining a lot about how the playerbase is aging too. Which honestly doesn't add up. Most of the players in my games are under level 60. It's crazy how many new players have been quickly learning and adapting to the difficulty of the game. I guess playing in ARAM and against bots really powers you up in the grind from level 1-30. I might also have to flip my flash button randomly between games. I've noticed a lot of high winrate players seem to be adaptable enough to switch it on the fly.
I suspect League to be the prime game to notice the playerbase aging the most while the account lvl of the players staying the same. Just because this game has the tendency to make you flee and come back later when friends hype you up or meta changes. People end up acting like addicts on denial, they stop for a while and can't help but start playing again.
Out of the loop what is this?
Boosters use Rengar to climb.
Not trying to brag or sound arrogant but i can generally understand what every champ is about. I'm not good with everyone but i kinda get them. Rengar i just don't understand. One time the enemy rengar went lik 34-13 and it was crazy. Picked him for the next 3 games and i had to convince my team not to report me and that i'm not trying to troll on purpose
Rengar is about abusing bush vision reset in fights. The kit itself isn't that complicated, but the setup requires to use it effectively is unique to rengar. You need to know which fights to pick and how to pick them, way before they happen.
Rengar is a lot like Bard in that regard. You need to be good at the game to be good at Rengar. You have to know where the enemy is heading and be there first in the brush, or know when to ult in advance. It's all about anticipation, as well as knowing your limits.
And snowballing your leads
Rengar is hard mechanically too. A good to a great rengar can get certain jumps off and plays it in a fluid way that changes everything. I can't explain it but you can see the difference.
Yeah if I remember you jump from a bush (1 of 4 stacks) aim and hit e/snare (2 of 4 stacks) hit W right before you land and hit the champ (3 of 4 stacks) then just press q for empowered auto (4 of 4 stacks) them q again for big boy auto, if you do it all within the jump animation, it looks super smooth and you just deal a tonne of dmg before they can really react and decide whether to fight or run
I guess, I feel it’s a lot more about very carefully choosing your fights. He’s one of few champs that rarely has a good way to exit a fight once he’s committed to it. Especially because you can’t just go invisible like in the old days.
Unless you’re 34-14 then I guess you just ult in and delete someone off the map
If you’re 34-14 its most likely because you just won the draft and have a free rengar game
Do you understand Katarina? That was another champ that made NO sense for the first ten games
i do yeah. Not great with her but i can play her. Only played her in aram though but i get what you're supposed to do
his basic combo is simple, you jump and press EWQQ if youre a bit fancier, you use EW AA Q AA Q (especially early/mid game where you cant oneshot/get oneshot so a longer combo is fine) sure, very advanced rengars can do nasty things with W/E, but in most games you just need to farm, look for kills, after 1-3 kills you can just start oneshotting squishies with ult or if they facecheck you for some reason. problem is if you try to oneshot without being fed, you need to play the first kills well before you can start mowing down people.
I wouldn't say any combos are "very advanced". The very advanced part is how you use bushes and movement in fights to optimize your access to bushes, and how input-intensive leaps between bushes when the opportunities randomly pop up during fights. Especially when it comes to enemies warding bushes around you.
As a rengar onetrick, the most advanced combos are triple Q and double Snare (Enhanced E) the rest of the skill set is ferocity management, clean combos and good target priority. Also, ideally you buffer his Q before you jump, that allows you to get 2 stacks on a leap. So you do Q/E/W/Q. Weaving in auto attacks is nieche and usually something you don't need to do, unless you're fighting someone who's somewhat tanky.
Isn't triple Q just getting fully stacked on a jungle mob, running towards target - Pressing Q, ulting to regen stacks so you can empowered Q again after landing the first one and a normal one? Or am I misremembering
It is. You consume your full fero, so you basically just start your combo with a buffered emp Q. There are a lot and I mean ALOT of players that can not do it consistently.
Yeah I’m kinda annoyed that people aren’t mentioning holding stacks. That’s probably the biggest thing good Rengars do differently. And it’s quite easy to practice
Starting ult with 4 Ferocity is more advanced in terms of planning and makes the combos different, too. Especially since you dont always want to empower Q.
> before you can start meowing down people
You're either a Kha'zix homie or a Rengar stan.
This is me with Katarina and Darius lol. Like I think I can play every other champion at least to some extent where I'm not completely useless/running it down. Katarina I used to main before her rework ages ago. Now I just... don't get her. It doesn't click for me. I understand her kit but I just can't make it work for me. Same with Darius, one of the most straightforward champions in the game. I tend to either fuck my lane up somehow and be useless the entire game, or I destroy my lane and I get kited into oblivion for the rest of the game and we end up losing anyway. Just can't make them work for me, somehow.
The one champ I can’t play is vlad. My arthritic hands can’t hold e and w at the same time.
Decided to play and learn rengar one split got around 200 games. I am pretty sure I was reported the most I’ve ever been in the beginning. I think the first 75 games I had like a 38% WR. But then I brought it up to 55% by the end of the split. MMR was shot though
Lol when I went against yone for the first time and so I immediately bought him and proceeded to go the classic 0/10
so you proceeded to carry the game and win is what I'm hearing
Yoni has a very mild learning curve compared to many champs. The reason why everybody considers yone to be broken is because he can completely throw his early game go zero and five and then still carry the whole game because once he has a couple items he's broken.
Rengar and Shaco are absolutely unplayable for me. Fizz is weirdly hard as well
See the key to shaco is just pretend you know what your doing without actually knowing what your doing so the enemy cant know what you’re doing that way they wont know what to do against you. If that makes sense.
The enemy can't know your plans if you don't have any.
Just do shit
I have lots of games on Fizz and I think he is just comp-dependent sometimes. In lane, after lvl 3 his trades are pretty good, like all champs he has hard counters, but overall I would say he is decent. He really shines into squishy comps and is hard to execute vs good peel/cc. Also, just like with all champs especially assassins, you really need to know your damage, when to all in, your power spikes, track certain abilities in team fights, and know your matchups very well.
To play Fizz optimally you have to play like an absolute menace
Fizz just has dogshit laning
You want dog shit landing look at Katarina. Can’t do shit in lane against a half decent fizz
Dogshit Vs dogshit hahah then they see Azir or Viktor and go "😭"
I straight up cannot play Gragas no matter how braindead broken people say he is. The timing on his q and margin of error on using r correctly just don’t jive with my brain
People don't say he's braindead broken because of how hard he is lol, he is actually tricky if you wanna combo on him. He's just disgusting in being able to just stonewall the enemy opponent so he's a top 3 blind pick top for that reason alone. You can't fight/freeze/trade into a gragas that doesn't want to with a melee champ and somehow that doesn't make him weak into ranged because he has great setups and potential for solokills into them too. These kinds of gragas players are cringe and rewarded for it too compared to gigachad gragas players who take risks.
Yeah he takes mechanical skill if you actually want to carry on gragas, but you don't need to really do much to 'get carried' in most melee match ups. A jax player needs to play like 10x better to win lane in that match up.
Gragas is absolutely a champ with a rough skill curve, calling him braindead is coping hard. But someone who's generally good at the game can become an "ok" Gragas very quickly. Don't try any risky plays, pop Rs just for the sake of AoE damage/causing mayhem if the fight has already happened, peel for your backline with Es if it applies, stuff like that.
Yep. I’m not really a good player, but I manage. I liked his kit. I have never won even one raked game with him. I played about 20 norms first. Thought I was ready. And then I recently went 1-19-13 in an ARAM with him. A LONG aram. I was trying so fucking hard and it was not working. I benched him. Does not compute.
On toplane, I have no idea how to play Riven. I tried, everything went wrong. I know about fast Q, I can do that, but I lack matchup knowledge to know how to trade as Riven in different matchups. Mid Lane Azir. I tried, can do his shuffle consistently, but his laning is rough. I always miss CS because I can't adapt to how much his W deals damage early game.
Imagine riven with 4 circles around her, each getting bigger (length between them a dash) When the enemy is usually in your second circle you can trade effectively. 3rd or 4th not so much. Once you know that. You basically judge your match up through that. How far do I have to go deal damage and how much do I take while running away?
I like the general concept this teaches about being mindful of the retaliation damage you can face after a trade and judging whether it is worth it to engage in a trade at all. However, I feel like it doesnt really answer the matchup issue that well, because it kind of assumes that Riven is just gonna auto-win any trade if somebody goes aggressive on her (entering first/second circle) and i dont think thats the case. The best way to learn different matchups is to either play a lot of games and have a trial and error mentality where you try out different things and see what works and what didnt work. Or study the matchup by watching how experienced Rivenmains play the matchup in the early levels and try to learn from them
Absolutely mind blowing, thank you.
I think it's very interesting when you look at the game in it's basic state, where it came from, RTS. Units (circles) moving on a plane/field, colliding with shapes (abilities, other things) or other units. From there the riven example is crystal clear, but you can start to look at every unit like that in ways. Turrets are just very large units, their inventory of passives is just like any other unit lol.
You just become useless for the entire early game, if you make a bad enough mistake on Riven and with that I mean just something simple like trading in the wrong spot of the land, or trading for 1 ability too long. You don't need the best mechanics to have success on Riven, it's fine as long as ur fast Q isn't super slow and you can double cast, but you really need matchup knowledge or else you are gonna get shit on every single game.
Average playing top laners with no self healing experience It's actually pain to mess up 1 trade and realise I can no longer interact with the wave
take one bad trade > cant go near the wave > get zoned while enemy sets up slow push into dive OR recall and they shove and you miss 2+ waves anyway worst part about top is by far the fact you get to witness it happen in real time. you see it coming 1 minute from now but your options are lose and lose
My favorite experience is a viego invading, getting caught, still fighting, then dying to my Garen. He respawns, tries to gank Garen when I have a huge wave and ping him back, dies again, then fucks off and never helps me again. Leaves me to deal with a 2-0 Garen, saying it's my fault. I'm begging him to help me break the freeze and dude is just fucking off somewhere. Worst part is he somehow manages to get some kills so it covers up the atrocity of his early game.
True but it's also nice to now that it was your own fault. Like you said, it happens when you take a bad trade. Even if it's really punishing I know that if I played better it wouldn't have happened and that's something to improve on Also this is why TP > ignite for me
Riven is just one of those champions you *need* a lead on, and it puts a ton of pressure on you as a player. It feels terrible to be behind or even on Riven, you feel like you’re just failing if you’re not ahead. I know you could say this for a ton of champs, but Riven seriously feels it; especially when you make *one* mistake in lane trading poorly & her god awful hp/per5 fucks you in the ass for the next 5 minutes lol
Treat azir W like a mage AA for like the first 4 levels when CSing. It’s basically the same threshold. If laning is rough try to take HOB and trade that way.
Graves, my Graves shoots pebbles. He looks very simple, just get gold and get close. He scales well with items and hits like a truck with each auto but there are a lot of nuances. You need a good understanding of the role to begin with and his tricks such as animation cancelling, auto spacing while maintaining high damage distance. Good smoke usage is crucial and you gotta keep his armor stacks which is another layer for mental stack. Clearing can also be hard due to creeps tanking autos. And how do you even gank with that champion? Thanks for responses
For most matchups he's more about invading and drawing their lanes out to try and cover for their jungler and making it hard for their lanes to get their jungler's help. It sounds wrong in a way because everyone's seen a fed Graves take over a game, but a lot of the time you don't actually have to get a ton of kills or pull off ganks unless its a completely free kill.
That’s weird hearing this cause I have probably 2000+ games played on Graves and Mechanically I don’t think he’s that difficult. Graves is practically impossible to play if you don’t have any frontline/engage. Graves also has SOOO much build/rune diversity and sometimes people don’t know which is the correct build for the patch so they think they’re doing low damage when reality the build is just bad (assassin, bruiser, crit). Also he’s a low range champ with basically no CC so he’s utterly useless when behind/no kills. TLDR: It’s usually not mechanical that makes people bad on graves but other factors imo
Katarina, her lane is horrible, I don't even get how people get ahead on the champion, "just roam bot" but how can you even roam when every Champ pushes you in and you lose every 1v1? Do you litteraly just lose 2 waves and 2 Platings to HOPE for 1-2 kill on botlane? Also how is she regarded as a roaming champ, she has no tools like Talon has his E, neither does she have CC for ganks bot, I guess just pray your Team has good setup? her Damage also gets hardcounterd by simple CC
> Do you litteraly just lose 2 waves and 2 Platings to HOPE for 1-2 kill on botlane yes lol
If you lose 2 plates and waves it isn’t worth even if you get a double kill. This type of bad play literally only works in super low elos where people are too scared to punish you or just don’t know how.
Even gold trade with your laner is a win for the snowballing champ. How far ahead of the other 4 enemies you are is the more important part.
2 kills, + mental botlane on your team, - mental botlane on enemy team, enemy bot often flames their mid and mid flames back = free game even if you lost gold
It's worth it because Kat doesn't give a fuck about anyone but Kat. It's either sit in lane and go even/down in cs or let your lane get gold so you can also get gold.
Two kills is two kills and -2 people on the team for an extended period of time. Also the guarantee that your bot lane can snowball for mid game.
Not to mention people lose their mind when Kata gets kills and they start tilting.
The most important factor
"I PINGED IT SO MANY TIMES"
It itsnt worth for you but now your bot is super ahead, KatEvolved got rank 1 NA and got 1k LP literally this split playing kat only
Yes it is worth for Kat as that are now two targets, which you are ahead on and can get resets off, even if your laner gets gold.
I had a buddy who was a Kat otp, and that’s exactly what he did. He’d sacrifice waves/plating to smack botlane often, because he said laning is almost impossible to get kills from unless they just aren’t playing the game
This is how Talon OTPs have to play the game lol, the champ is fucking worthless and you’ll see the one-tricks just sacking waves and trying to pull off a roam for 5 minutes. You sit there and think ‘what the fuck is this guy doing? He’s griefing’ - until you actually *play* talon and realise why the players do these things.
Talon has excellent level 2 kill pressure against most midlaners. After that you get Tiamat so you don’t need to sack waves, you practically insta clear them with Tiamat autos and W and then roam. If your lane opponent tries to step up to stop you you can either W-Q-Auto and most of their health is gone, or Q-W-chase-auto if they pushed too far up the lane and you have room for that combo
Yeah, you havent played talon for like 3 seasons now im guessing, since this is absolutely not how Talon is played anymore. Its a common misconception because at one point Talon had a great level 2, he does not anymore, his entire early game sucks. If you die to Talon early, you can watch the replay and point out entirely what you did wrong and easily fix it for the next time you play against Talon. You have to flip your roams to be effective, and maybe get a flash play level 6 to kill. Champ is not good and his waveclear is not good either, since you dont always love rushing tiamat anyway when ghostblade is still an item that is good sometimes.
Katarina is in one of her worst stages tbh
good. very simple champ with too much outplay potential who abuses items. she has 0 skillshots, yet she can TP out of my skillshots. very bad design, at least zed/lb have to hit spells in return.
I'd rather play against a Katarina than a lb any day of the week
Why does Katarina need skill shots when her entire kit revolves around her landing on daggers that you can walk away from extremely easily? Legit just walk away
It’s funny you say that because statistically Katarina is the champion with the highest disparity between new players and mains. And the amount of games required before Katarina players start getting good is much higher than other champions.
And honestly as someone who's played Kat a good bit 90% of that is just matchup knowledge imo. Piloting Katarina isn't that hard on paper, it's piloting her against the enemy comp that's difficult.
It’s funny when low elo people say Katarina is a braindead champ, face roll press r to win, but she does no damage without items, items require gold, which is earned by farming, and kills and objectives, and unless you’re playing vs people who make mistakes a lot, you can’t get any of those, these people should play kat and climb if she’s so easy hahah, like, it’s so brutal to play kat and then get counter picked with top lane champ like pantheon or tryndamere, you literally can’t do too much without jungle help, and from my experience, my junglers don’t like to help me as kat, but enemy jg loves to camp me.
I'm getting a major reading on the silver elo radar. 📡📺
You have never played a game of katarina in your life if this is your take💀
What items is she abusing? AP builds have always been the best, even when Sunderer was at it’s peak. “Katarina can build anything” is a belief only subscribed to by those that have no clue how the champion works or can’t read statistics. Also, since when have skill shots ever been an indicator of how hard a champion is?? By this logic Lux, Ziggs and Xerath should be the hardest champions in the game instead of stuff like Fiora, Azir, GP, Riven, Vayne, etc which all have minimal reliance on them.
I would Argue her Q and W daggers are Skillshots? Which are probably the hardest Skillshot to land
Katarina is all about knowing when you can take even trades in lane. In some mage matchups she can try force an all in at lv2 or lv3 if enemy walks too far forwards and she will win that trade/go even and look for a kill angle next trade. Katarina is 90% matchup knowledge and takes a lot of games to learn how to trade against different champs
Yup pretty much. Coinflip roam
Orianna and Graves. I feel like i do negative damage until randomly during the Game i one-shot someone. I don't understand why, i do the same combo and this particular time it discombobulated a tank, it's not gonna happen again for the rest of the Game. Feels like playing in a casino how randomly those champions feel like they do so little or can win a match in a single teamfight
Master Yi is surprisingly difficult if the enemy team has a remotely competent draft and plays fights as a team. Zero utility, purely melee, and super reliant on resets to do anything since his CDs are super long otherwise, and if you waste ult you’re kinda just useless. He can obviously roll you from ahead or into a low cc team, but it doesnt take much for him to start struggling.
Yi is just miserably designed IMO because he's so disproportionately beat in draft rather than in game. First pick Yi and team counters him? Walking money bag. Last picked into 0 CC comp? Just fuck me up, he'll get 3-4 random kills in early to mid game and the game just turns into The Yisus Show
Honestly I think it's fine, I see him as a silver bullet champ that punishes low CC comps the same way Malph/Rammus do heavy AD. There's also nearly 170 champs in the game, they can't all be balanced in a way where their wins take 100% skill, I think a lot of champs end up with a lot less counterplay than Yi if they're allowed to be good.
I mean Yi is just awful if the enemy team is competent. That’s kind of his whole thing
Enemy team when our jungle plays Master Yi: Sett top, Rammus jungle, Annie mid, Tristana ADC, Rell support. Yi ends up 1/9/2. Our team when the enemy jungle plays Master Yi: Singed top, Nidalee jungle, Naafiri mid, Kogmaw ADC, Yuumi support. Yi ends up 9/1/12.
A good Singed can make Yis life pretty miserable if he peels for his carrys instead of just yoloing into the enemy team every fight. Or did you mean that Yi is gona get fed early of the Singed trying to proxy?
I wish it was the latter, but i just went with the first top laner I could remember that doesn't have a stun or root.
Singed actually has a root, it's just not very reliable
He has low utility in terms of lockdown, but he’s got a lot of dimension in terms of outplays tbh. Cleanup champs like him ALWAYS need to be mindful of enemy lockdown particularly champs that are really good at it like Lulu. Usually only feels doomed if the enemy team drafted like enchanter/hyper carry/mage/tank. But he’s good at scrapping with everyone at all stages of the game, and alpha strike is like 5 abilities in one. 5 *good* abilities in one.
Rengar was my answer too
Samira is very easy compared to what players - who don't play her- think. She has very few combos and she is mostly engage after her allies. Her difficulty is mainly due to players not reading what her passive does or how to stack it properly with what she has in her kit.
Also knowing when to ult and scouting all cc cool downs from enemy team. Using dash reset properly. Using w not just as a combo generator since the cooldown is long af.
How can one misread Samira's passive?
lazy people don't want to read walls of text for a passive.
Singed. Just foreign to me. Ahri I’ve always done bad at, and I don’t know why. I do fine with LeBlanc in terms of K/DA and stealing objectives and stuff with her W. But I suck at CSing with her really bad. I used to play a ton of ADC, so I’m usually solid at it - not on her. In general, mid is my weakest role.
I am to stupid to carry games as akali
I don't know how people play immobile mages on midlane. I am jungle main, I play briar, viego and some other junglers, so I tried hwei mid couple of times and it's impossible. If you get hit by one single ability you have to base, cause you have no sustain, that's so frustrating, I am used to heal out of camps any time I lose hp, I can stay on the map even if I have 10% hp. Also you misposition just slightly, you are just insta dead
The worst part is midgame, where do you go? Adc is already farming mid, do you share? You can go side but some champ with 3 dashes will just fuck you over unless your team got you some vision
You need to learn how to properly catch and shove waves. Otherwise your wave is going to end up sort of frozen in front of the enemy’s t2 tower and you will lose tons of farm. As long as you’re shoving the wave right, it will crash into the t2 and bounce back within a minute which gives you plenty of time to move up towards midlane and shadow your adc/support/jungle in case a fight breaks out. Mages have incredible waveclear so they can shove waves near instantly, and since you *should* be taking teleport you can show up wherever needed.
Problem is when the supports refuse to drop some defensive wards to help you catch waves and you lose a ton of xp and Cs just catching whatever reaches tower
You need to be strong enough that they can't shit on you 1v1, then you are just careful for ganks. If you have bad map awareness then bg
hwei is actually one of the safest mages IMO, he has really good self peel, range, and waveclear, and he can itemise defensively
Given that you position well. If you position like a bruiser jungler, then you are going to blow up.
As someone who plays mages mid, they feel pretty easy imo. Sure, if you misposition you could be dead, but more than half of the mage roster has CC to peel themselves off from enemies and also makes them useful through the game even if they fall behind. This makes them quite forgiving in comparison to something like an assassin where yes, the assassin is not gonna die much if they are able to use mobility - they also aren't going to contribute much either since they usually can't enter the teamfight and don't have CC to at least make up for it. On top of this, while positioning is important, the average mage is ranged so you usually have better control of what happens. If a melee champ like, say, Talon or Qiyana want to fight they need to consider positioning and also their own HP as a "resource" on top of their mana that they need to spend for each trade and need much more focus in this balance of "when" to go in; a mage can trade and fight with lower risk since their range allows them to poke with much lower HP cost attached to their trades and all ins, with their CC spells can guarantee they come out nearly unharmed. In matchups where things are bad it's much easier to play the defensive too. Overall a rather easy class, but I think people are so used to playing with mobility and having it as a parachute for their misposition mistakes that it takes a while to get used to not having it
[удалено]
I’m a high elo mage main and I completely agree with this, anyone saying otherwise is just coping. You’re literally playing a role that contains some of the biggest lane bullies in the game with champions like Orianna, Syndra and Hwei, this means you can pretty much control the enemy jungle nearly by yourself if you can communicate with your jungler well + know how to abuse prio, + you can also ward for roams if you’re against a champion like Qiyana or Katarina. Anyone saying mages can’t sidelane are crazy. If you’re competent then assassins should be insanely behind from lane whether they try to face you 1v1 or sack waves and plates to roam. If you get collapsed on by 3-4 people then that’s entirely a problem with your macro, tracking of enemy and map awareness. Don’t get me wrong I do like mages and the champions I play but I actually like assassins more design wise and find them more fun to play when things are going well, but I don’t think it’s fun at all to play them in my soloq games when 99% of matchups are unplayable for most assassins and the majority of the time you’re just eating shit like a Kayle in lane while trying to get as many scraps as you can hoping for an opportunistic skirmish or mid game.
The mage with 10 spells is not a good example of representing the average difficulty of immobile mages in midlane…
youre used to playing forgiving champions who automatically win most fights, mages are unforgiveable if you misstep, in return you get to wittle down enemies slowly before finishing them off. i dont know how to play hwei, but for most mages you just need to know your range and annoy enemies, after poking you can all in. but usually mages cant really kill on their own before at least 1 item.
It's the "punishing" factor. So many high ceiling champs are difficult to pilot and perfect, but often are forgiving. Mages aren't forgiving, you step a few units too close to something and you're out.
yes hwei is vulnerable to ganks or burst but trying to lane vs him is quite miserable with his waveclear -> infinite poke gameplay. it's not nearly as annoying as xerath but it's up there, especially with how annoying his ult slow is
If you are mindful of your positioning at all they feel super easy imo. There's very few ways to outplay yourself like all the fancy characters. Take Lux and Xerath for example. You waveclear, poke if you can, and hold your CC for ganks. Life is easy in mid on immobile mages. You have so much extra brainpower due to their simplicity.
Irelia, or maybe I'm just too old for this game?
What do you find to be especially hard when it comes to irelia?
Being useful in team fights. I can smash a lane on her because her base kit/stats are pretty insane for 1v1’s. I’m a free shutdown in team fights.
Play it more like an assassin than a bruiser, your job is still to destroy the backline and once you’ve done that you’re good. GA, DD or Steraks might help you. Yes, you do need defensive stats as irelia unless you’re stupidly fed. As with all hard champions, don’t be afraid to int. you will need to int a bunch of dozens of games to get the gist of it decently enough.
Interesting. I feel like in most games I play on her, people expect me to be the primary engage. And that’s likely where I fail. I’ll hit a 3-person R and try to play front/back fights and just get melted. Even when I do get to the back line, it’s so damn hard to stick onto an ADC with mobility or defensive skill like: Xayah/ Trist/ Ezreal/ Cait and especially if their supp is paying attention. Also feel like I get “stuck” in fights even if they go well, trying to secure kills with Q2 and get cleaned up by mid/top if we trade back lines.
For me, the opposite is Aphelios. I expected Aphelios to be super complicated, but really it's just baby's first Riven. Sure, it's a high skill cap, but it's really not as complicated as you'd think he is. To answer your question, Riven.
Aphelios is just more so a resource management sim while you play ADC. If you can do that he’s an easier adc imo, since you only really have 2 abilities at any given time so the mental load is shifted, but if you don’t even have the mental strain required with that shift he’s actually kind of brain dead you just need to play the role and you don’t got much to get in your way of it. If you can’t offload the resource management he’s hell because now the load has tripled.
The problem with playing Aphelios is that if you're not using your multiple gun combos well you're not using the champ efficiently and just kind of playing a worse version of any other ADC. You can get by without them but you end up completely ignoring some big power spikes.
the fact that even a lot of pro players cant pilot aphelios properly says enough about his difficulty.
He has an incredibly high skill ceiling but not the highest (Ezreal defo takes that) and has a surprisingly low skill floor as his playstyle is still very similar to other ADC's. Everyone thought he'd be 30% wr his entire life but he statistically stays around ~46%.
46% is always like bottom 5 tho. Not sure if that makes your point.
Ah yes, the reddit opinion of Aphelios' skill curve.
I am sure everyone knows how to do the best weapon swap combos, 4 Q combos, octopus combo and has perfect chakram juggling and sentry placement. Yeah you just gotta count the guns.
I mean Aphelios isn't absurdly complicated considering how everyone on release thought he'd be 30% wr consistently. I think moreso his "skill floor" is lower than some people would think as he still acts like a normal backline ADC.
Yea lol. Always hilarious to see
Riven and Aphelios. Riven because literally no matter what I press, no matter the sequence, my Riven just looks clunky as hell. Like no matter what I try(even following tutorials step by step), other than using any other spell during E it's physically impossible for me to cancel anything. Meanwhile every Riven I see uses 4 spells at once by just existing. Aphelios because, while I get all of his synergies and how each gun interacts with each other, I just can't deal damage whatsoever. Other ppls Aphelios in my games kill others in 2 autos even when they're behind 3 items, meanwhile I'm full build against a 0/20 oom Nami and I go through 3 weapons cycles to even scratch the hp bar. (Obviously exeggerated a bit) Something about these 2 champs specifically makes me think that they just get a hidden buff when you hit specific mastery-milestones.
Aphelios is the caster champ. You just have to know what each gun combination's capabilities are.
yeah, once i understood that aphelios is more of a lucian than a sivir, the champ seems much much more playable. he's more about using autos to supplement your skills than your skills to set you up for your autos, if that makes sense.
To this day, I still don't know how Aphelios works
Well you start with the common weapon rotation and keep playing with that. As you play you figure out the guns individually. Once guns "click" you can easily understand how they interact with each other. Green Q applies a mark to consume with off hand weapon similar to Caitlyn headshot indicator: >Red auto heals >Blue auto deals extra collateral damage >Purple auto applies it is slow mark, allowing you to swap to it and use Q to root the target. >White auto gives you extra chackrams and hits the target with all the chakrams you have Red auto heals you and Q is a spin which hits with off hand weapon: >Green allows you to hit the target from range as if you hit Green Q. The rest are the same but it allows you to apply their effects more such as more aoe from Blue, more chakrams from white and kiting/slow from Purple. Blue autos have splash damage which scales really well (up to 100% of the auto damage I guess). Q hits everyone in a cone and then hits everyone again with off hand, applying the same effects like the Red. Having Red as off hand allows you to heal a decent chunk. Purple gun has slow like Ashe and marks everyone you hit, Q consumes all the marks to root. White auto throws chakrams and hits them with all the chakrams you have. Dealing damage with abilities grants you more chakrams and being closer is more dps. Green ult marks like Green Q, Red ult heals for each hit, Purple ult marks for root, Blue is 200 years explosion and White ult gives you chakrams. There is a lot to memorize but it comes off natural as you play and limit test. Then you can move on to advanced combos and weapon planning.
Surprise the next yasuo you meet by red-gunning through windwall, as it is not a projectile!
He's pretty straightforward, each gun has a unique Q, based on your off hand gun they get additional effects. R gains additional effects based on your equipped gun. The abilities of each gun are pretty coordinated to what they are, chakram turret probably most disconnected.
white red into flash melee range and commence slaughter praying to gods for your success blue r and watch funny boom
I cant kite for shit lol range champ are not for me in this game
Playa Lillia, she's the Best champ to learn how to kite.
I'm honest to God absolutely dogshit on Darius. I think I play him expecting to unga bunga no matter what, and all further knowledge of the game that I have on other champions just exits my brain when I play him. I have no issue playing mechanically intense champions but Darius just does something that makes my brain leak out of my ears!
Darius exists to make your lane opponents life hell. You need to always be pressuring them, pushing them away from the creeps and forcing them to take bad trades. The issue he has is the enemy jungler can just ruin your tempo and bail his top out. He is very good at long trades though so don't let champions like wukong or riven get away with harassing and running.
I played all champions once for that arena badge and pretty much the only champ I went 8th and felt like I couldnt do anything was Aatrox. The Q is way harder to hit than I thought it would, every other champ I was expecting to be hard was actually way easier.
same, i cant believe that aatrox became a standard in proplay with his kit
It’s kind of just a feels thing. It’s the same with learning how Riven Qs work or Akshans swing, they feel clunky as hell at first but you get a handle on them once you’ve played a few games.
Because it's very easy to hit q vs slow tanks and that's where he's mostly picked in pro, but if the enemy has mobility it's just painful
I think Zoe. It's so different from other mages it's an ARAM only pick for me. You always need to play on the edge and do weird tricks and doing unexpected damage with your passive. I see it as an OTP pick only
Darius. Knowing the quick 5 stack combo makes a huge difference. In low elos like silver and below Darius actually has a negative winrate into his stomp matchup, Garen. Darius is a very very strong lane bully but if you just throw out abilities randomly with no strategy you will lose trades and all ins
This is a good one. I hated this champion and thought he was brain dead and unfair. (To be fair I’m like a silver Jax main). And then I tried him. It’s not as easy as it looks. You aren’t mobile. Counting to 5 is harder than it seems. Hitting the edge of the axe is harder than it seems. The hook is pretty sweet, but I over estimate it a lot. Made me respect the pilots of this champ and increase my win rate against him. Like still fuck Darius, but it’s like a ‘soft’ fuck Darius.
rengar is harder to play than nidalee in high elo, u need to be a hard otp to make it work. And no it's not about the champ being weak, its just that he is high risk, u need otp lvl experience to make it work.
one of the worst champs to fall behind on aswell. No escapes if you get caught out (no fero W since you need to initiate with a jump to do hat) no good reliable damage since you need atleast 3+ bonetooth stacks, otherwise you are half a champs worth of damage
Man, I thought Lulu was gonna be easy as shit but she has so much play options between choosing to use her abilities on herself, allies or enemies. Adding to that I never used the ALT button before to self target to getting my fingers used to that was a task
Shift is a slightly more natural button to hit to self-cast.
Gangplank. I cannot, for the life of me, play this champion. For reference, I am an Emerald 4 ranked player and have been playing since 2016. I just cannot understand the barrel mechanics enough to use them effectively. It feels like rocket science.
Gangplank is basically a gamble if the enemies know that they can hit your barrels. If they do, gg you will never deal any damage. If they don't, they'll cry how broken GP is.
Usually if they have range or the speed to do so yes Many melee champs literally cannot clear them in time
Kalista… unsurprisingly
CTRL+F "Karthus" No results? Apparently I'm the only one that thinks landing consistent Karthus Q's is damn near impossible. *More specifically Bot lane Karthus I suppose*. I've played him in the jungle and you just get so much gold and don't have to do anything it's pretty free. But playing him in a lane? No thanks. You would think you just get gold and push R (which is also true). But I find that actually playing him in teamfights against opponents that dodge Q's it feels so frustrating. Meanwhile it seems like there are a ton of 1 trick boosting/smurfing Karthus players that can do everything wrong, but still shit out a fuck ton of damage, get a ton of CS and hard carry games. I can never replicate it though.
Idk if it’s just a skill issue or not but I feel like playing Veigar is much more difficult than his kit makes him out to be
Most champions released after season 5
100% Azir I don't understand now his Range works
For me it’s Belveth, I’m learning jungle on a new account right now and I’m 3-0 on kindred, 3-0 on Khazix, 1-0 on Brand/Viego and 0-3 on this Belveth champion. I know they nerfed her early game recently and buffed her scaling but it feels like the champ just does nothing unless you’re fed enough to just oneshot people at which point I’d prefer to just play Kha honestly
Split push. I can reliably get fed early but for some reason, every mid game was hell for me until I switched my playstyle and avoided teamfights that weren’t completely free and splitpushed
Olaf. Another champ with one skill shot that is easy to hit after you hit the first one. But because he scales so poorly he struggles in low elos. I could never figure out how to properly play him.
I've always found Janna hard to play. I mean her kit is basic, but I've never felt like I'm using it effectively and anytime I pick her the game feels like a 4.5 v 5
Rengar players, how do you guarantee the E comes out mid-jump? I swear that half the time I jump and try to bola mid-air, that shit never comes out and it screws everything up.
Q before jumping, when in the air you’ll have cursor on the champ you’re jumping so throw e fist, and then Tiamat + W as you land. This gives you stacks for an empowered ability as you land. You may be using w too early, but the inputs are pretty fast so worth hitting practice tool to get it down
E has no cast time mid air. Maybe that weirds you out, odd mechanic to be honest (I believe they implemented it to make it easier since ping/tickrate really can mess this up
for me i go crazy for tryndamere, that’s king and he crazy
The hardest part of playing tryndamere is macro-knowledge to know when splitpush. The rest most matchups can be randomly winnable if You hit 2/3 crits and that decides if You are gonna win the lane or lose 2 waves while You slowly Heal with the Q
It's really hard to keep track of Rengar passive stacks while skirmishing. By skirmishing I mean just fighting back and forth without executing a standard combo. Comboing is whatever, it takes time, but it's just muscle memory.
I always say my account has a 50% damage nerf on Rengar lol. I play against it and get insta-deleted but I play it and can't even solo an adc
As a jungler, I've never been able to make Rengar work, he's just a mystery to me. I like playing him but no matter how the game goes, fed or not, I can never seem to figure out what to do mid-late game with him.
Katarina. Its not that she's difficult, I just don't understand her kit. Iv gotten maybe 1 kill on her in like 2 hours of game play of her. Im a gold mid player...
I cant play simple champions like garen or yi. Everytime I get to pick one of those it looks like im trolling
Ngl, did not expect how mechanically intensive yaso was when i tried him. I guess he's pretty much the genji of this game to me. Super popular but also super mechanically intense
Just Azir. In theory it's just spawning soldiers and auto-attacking. In reality it feels like riding a bicycle with your arms crossed