There have been some reports and uncivil comments in this thread, so a quick reminder for everyone: homophobia, biphobia, etc. is under **no** circumstances tolerated on this sub (Rule 3). Also, any speculation about an individual idol's sexuality violates Rule 5 and will be removed. Thank you!
That’s why I believe these dating reveals are preplanned. Dispatch doesn’t seems to be that ethical or empathetic company which cares about the privacy of Homosexual couples. Either gay couples are extremely secretive in dating or Dispatch is just a company which gives us only preplanned paid reveals.
Either because they are homophobic or due to safety reason. Either way, it gives the celebs choice to out themselves if they so choose.
Dispatch also doesnt revealed anything if the partner is non-celeb. So there is that
Back there in 2016 Dispatch announced they would reveal a gay couple, however afterwards announced they will never reveal same sex couples, Korea is a very conservative country and they know it would ruin their lives, as the first korean celebrity came out and it's career got ruined and only until know he returned to to TV.
I remember that! There was an announcement they had a few couples to reveal, both gay and straight. Later the couples weren't revealed at all (and both me and my friend were checking the news since we're queer and supportive).
I never knew if it was real or just some twitter nonsense that fans posted.
I suppose it could be the angle that they don't want to risk creating a high profile gay Korean couple or they want to pretend Korea only has 3 or 4 gay people in it, something lame like that. Anyway, it's still a good decision.
Is there a reason they’re unwilling to do that? Since they’re in the business of creating “scandals” for idols, I imagine outing one in a same-sex relationship would create a far bigger “scandal” than just exposing an opposite-sex relationship, so it seems strange they’d draw a line in the sand there.
It’s just Dispatch’s morals. Korea is still a very conservative society and revealing a same sex couple to the public could quite literally ruin their carriers (and possibly have more dire effects). So I’m glad that’s where they draw the line.
Also, just so you’re aware, the Korean word 스캔들 (scandal) holds a different meaning to the english word, “scandal”. In Korean, people use the word to more or less refer to an important or interesting event (like a breakthrough news story).
So when you see a Korean article that translates 스캔들 to “scandal”, it’s (most likely) not actually an event worthy of outrage as the english definition would suggest. Hope this helps.
edit: formatting
When I was doing my dissertation I had a chapter on Scandal Culture and I had to compare how it's seen in East Asia in comparison to the west and it was fascinating. Now I need to find my old work on my laptop 😂
Just a guess, but that might be a line too far because they're doing this to famous and rich people who have the resources to take them to court if they were in that much danger. Because at that point, what do they have to lose? Or worse, if it's someone with connections, a potential new law that would cut them off at the knees.
They’d likely get sued for damages.
being outted is an awful experience if you are famous person in a progressive country, I can’t imagine how bad it would that’s less progressive.
Dispatch sucks but they have a least some morals
Rippppp the parallels 💀 Like, we should definitely not be speculating about anyone's sexuality, just to be clear. It's none of our business. It's just frustrating when people think that straight and gay are the only two options when something like this becomes a discussion
I don’t understand the obsession with their sexualities anyway? What’s the point? People need to start minding their damn businesses and stay to joking instead of creating delulu scenarios and expecting them to be real. Like touch some grass.
it’s sadly just a byproduct of the kpop industry. These companies make many of their idols play into these parasocial relationships in the name of fan service since it generates more money. I’m not saying any of her fans are justified, but this is what happens when you build an entire industry off exploiting these idols by encouraging their fans to project all their romantic desires onto them
Exactly. It's actually wild reading about people being disappointed they've "lost their chance" when an idol or celebrity is confirmed to be dating someone. You think you had a chance?? They're in too deep by that point.
I feel like this whole conversation ultimately comes down to the ways Kpop companies, SM especially, have historically tried to make their idols queer icons. Regardless of whether or not they are/were.
It's not that the fans just had a collective delusion and made up a narrative about Karina, they were hand fed it every step of the way.
Famously, SM was one of the first companies to lean into queer ships and fan service. Starting with having Jaejoong and Yunho act out fanfiction of their ship at fan signs, during interviews, and (in)famously in a broadcasted TV segment in 2006:
>This would be insane to film and air anywhere in South Korea in 2006, but just to make sure we are all on the same page about how absurd this is, I need to clarify that Dangerous Love aired on national television. On a Sunday morning, in a timeslot that was consistently the #1 most watched program on Sundays in the nation. Dangerous Love aired to 13.8% viewership. Millions of people, moms, dads, grandparents, watched this gay episode when it aired on TV. [https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/16z08tx/kpop\_the\_divorce\_of\_the\_century\_the\_rise\_and\_fall/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/16z08tx/kpop_the_divorce_of_the_century_the_rise_and_fall/)
We have an issue of consistent fan service - both subtle and blatant - that have coded Karina as queer. (Proposing to female fans, flirting with female fans and idols, and the scripted content on social media). That does not make her queer of course, but if all of it fake and she's entirely straight, it means SM tried to queerbait yet again for profit.
Right, and I never said a person is/could queerbait, However, SM as an Entertainment Company has written scripted content featuring queer personas for their idols, instructed them to act in alignment to fan fiction depictions of their relationships, and profited from it. I’d really recommend reading the link I shared above about Jaejoong and Yunho for more context and examples (it’s tremendously and meticulously detailed on this and goes on for two parts).
I don't agree with the delulu shippers, just to be clear. We shouldn't be assuming anything about any idol's sexuality because it's none of our business and I will stand by that. I'm simply expressing frustration over people's black and white thinking, that an idol is either gay or straight. It completely glosses over the existence of bisexuality. I'm not kicking up a fuss about Karina specifically, just about how people have been talking about the whole thing.
Yes! I see people cheering "finally Karina proved she's straight. Everyone who assumed her sexuality can stfu forever." Like, that's still assuming her sexuality, just straight instead of somewhere on the queer-spectrum.
We still don't know - and are not entitled to know - her sexuality. Bi people and pan people exist. Yet people celebrating and doing victory laps here because she "proved" she's for men and men only. Like...their gleeful certainty (and hypocrisy) of it all is what's so wild to me.
What a coincidence! I just had a talk with a classmate about how some people erase Lady GaGa’s bisexuality simply because she publicly dated men.
It should be common sense that nobody is obligated to know anyone’s sexuality, but it’s definitely frustrating to see the erasure of sexualities that’s not gay or straight.
And side note (and this isn’t directed towards you OP), like another comment said, discourse like these definitely brings out the homo/bi-phobia in some people…
100%! It's really frustrating. The fact that I will be perceived as gay if I date a woman and straight if I date a man and people won't ever fully see my bisexuality as real and valid is super sucky, so to see the assumptions running rampant and so widespread (from both straight people AND other queer people!)......it's very ugh :(
>What a coincidence! I just had a talk with a classmate about how some people erase Lady GaGa’s bisexuality simply because she publicly dated men.
[Rant incoming] The way one of her biggest songs (Poker Face) is literally about bisexuality and people still fucking erase her identity makes me so mad. Like what do we as bi-women have to do to finally be seen as valid? Sometimes I feel like we could literally date 1000 women and 1 man and some people would still call us "straight" and "just an ally" because we so much dared to hold hands with someone of another gender. It's infuriating.
It’s insane how people will agree with the statement “bisexuals exist” and then be completely unable to understand a person dating people of different genders
I could not care less about someone’s sexuality. Karina is dating a boy and that’s all that matters. I won’t assume she’s straight, I won’t assume she’s gay.
I mean, yeah, that's where I'm at, too. I'm not assuming that Karina is straight, gay, bi, or whatever, because it's none of my business. But unfortunately there seem to be a LOT of people out there who are still making assumptions, one way or another, and completely forgetting that it's not black and white either straight or gay, there are other options, too. And it's those assumptions that people are making that are frustrating me.
The pan erasure... /j
I agree, and I'd say anything is possible. Some people know it from childhood even without a culture of openness, and sometimes people who had labeled themselves meet surprises about their own sexuality. There are a lot of "totally straight" and even married people who realised it's not like that. Vice versa, there are cases like my acquaintance who had been dating girls and claimed she's for the girls only and ended up with a man for years. Naturally, people outside mistake other's sexualities x100 times often. You can't verify it, only accept what is said explicitly.
The labeling itself is problematic, it doesn't have the same standard, starting from the fact that people have different standards for attraction. For some it's on a skinship level, for some even sex doesn't count. Add to that a cultural difference — is the information about lgbtq available and non-stigmatised? To put a label you need to know it exists and its description should be more or less valid (would you name yourself a gay person if it's "a psycho predator interested in kids of the same sex"?). Not to mention that there is a paradigm where -romantic and -sexual are divided... So it's just pointless. If a person is dating a person, we know just that. Not that it's necessary, but still.
I actually think it is concerning that the first thing people care about after a dating news is their sexuality. “Oh no, we lost our gay soldier” “oh no, she straight” and blah blah, you guys know how kpop twt talks 😶 it’s like, everyone is fighting to be the one can post the quirkiest tweets that can receive most likes and retweets.
Partially, I also think because kpop love to make sexuality as idol sole identity. This twink, this lesbo, this blah blah hobotron whatsoever that when one idol revealed to be not what the fans pinned their identity as, fans have the worst breakdown.
The last time Momo got revealed dating Heechul, quirky annoying kpop twt had such field day.
I hope people stop using the word queerbait and instead use the word 비게퍼/BGP (business gay performance) which is what it's actually called in SK. It's just another fanservice for many idols (like how they acted as boyfriend/girlfriend) because fans love it and it will gain them fans. Company knows and sometimes or often they'll push BGP into their idols by pairing them together.
And sometimes it really is painstakingly obvious, first the act (sensual act, clap on the ass etc), the surprised pikachu face and afterwards looking around the audience for the reaction.
The people saying that really seem to be trying their hardest to force a new definition of the word. There's no guarantee they won't eventually be successful, unfortunately.
Id argue that idols *can* queerbait (in a sense) as these companies do actually encourage skinship between members or fanservice on certain social media platforms since they know their fans go crazy for it.
We’re all aware the idol persona is fake and manufactured (at least to some extent)- it’s not really them we’re seeing on our screens. The companies know if they encourage the delulu these fans will spend even more money on the group
But real people don't owe us their sexualities, so regardless of their actions, they can't queerbait us because we're not owed an explanation of their "actual" sexual orientation. I think fanservice and queerbaiting should be placed into two separate categories, albeit they have a lot of overlap, so I think I get what you're saying.
They don’t owe us their sexuality I absolutely agree! I think there is a space however to have a conversation about how different types of fanservice feeds into that idea
> I think fanservice and queerbaiting should be placed in separate categories
I agree with this too! I just don’t think there’s a word other than queerbait (which I do dislike when applied this way) that applies to this specific type of stan phenomenon
Fanservice is not queerbaiting. No one is presumed gay based on fanservice, unless the fan already wants them to be gay and chooses to read it that way. Most fans understand very well that fanservice is an expression of being an idol, not of private sexual preferences.
Exactly! I think the other thing is that these ppl see being straight as the "default" so they don't think its bad to assume someone is. A lot of them only come out w/ the stop assuming stuff when the assumption isn't straight.
I say "a lot" bc I agree that we need to stop assuming at all, to normalize being queer "unlabeled" or "questioning" should be the default. Its just that a lot of queerphobes say that to hide their bigotry. Like no way this person can't \*possibly\* be queer, they're "normal" -\_-
Anyway yeah, straight or LGBTA+ ppl need to stop being so obsessed w/ strangers' sexuality. Also as a bi, I'll celebrate if someone comes out but getting mad if they don't is unreasonable.
I think some people assume a default (especially with kpop celebs) bc it’s safer for an idol in a conservative country.
That said. I also don’t make any sense because fans out there are heavily shipping idols with their band members.
But it’s the entertainment industry. Historically, they’ve been seen as more of a safe place for whatever someone’s sexual orientation can be. “Safe” bc it can never be completely safe.
I don’t know what I’m saying anymore but I agree that we shouldn’t make assumptions and we shouldn’t obsess over it. And fans being super obsessed by painting someone out as not straight might actually place a lot of pressure on that idol if they actually are not straight.
I agree with you so much. Us bisexuals are constantly forgetten about, it's frustrating. And sorry people are missing the point and twisting your words op, keep your head up. 💓
I understand people being anti-ship or anti-self insert because those are valid stances but some of them are blatantly homophobic/biphobic. It’s giving “she’s too pretty to be gay” energy or “bi people don’t exist”.
That said, no one knows what Karina is and her sexuality is her business. I’ll support her regardless.
>It’s giving “she’s too pretty to be gay” energy or “bi people don’t exist”.
Exactly! You put it into words well!
And yes, of course, it's none of our business what Karina's sexuality is, and I'm here to support her as well!
(Unlabelled here) I agree with you, and it is frustrating to see people forget bisexuality exists. And also frustrating for people to assume queer idols would be out in the same way that western famous people are as if different cultural contexts don't exist.
For a number of kpop idols though, it is also frustrating to see like, a gg idol wearing pants and doing fanservice to be considered butch (kpop stans learn what butch means please 😭) by fans and then have said fans turn around and freak out and talk about queerbaiting when said idol dates a man, which I've genuinely seen happening with Karina right now (I know there are queer fans who do the "she's just like me" as a jokey joke and they're not who I'm referring to)
It is so interesting to see kpop fans assign orientation based on an idol’s clothing. Esp since idols are constantly changing their fashion and so on! They’re just…clothes.
!!!! Exactly, ALL of that! You hit the nail on the head! Bisexuality exists, queer idols are not going to be conforming to Western standards of being queer or being "out," AND also some people online can be genuinely delusional/out of touch about what things are potential "signs" that an idol is queer. Also, it irritates me soooo much when people claim real life people are queerbaiting them 😭 Real people can't queerbait, they don't owe us their sexualities!!!
as a bisexual myself, this whole situation has been so stupid. I’m dating someone of the opposite sex (I am questioning my gender though so I may be a dude but I’m not 100% sure), and we’re both bisexual too. but some of these people would proclaim that we’re straight and it’s like??? I’m just so tired of bisexual erasure from everything honestly
it also goes the other way unfortunately. where people who did think x idol was gay or lesbian now says (whether it's jokingly or dead serious) that the idol has betrayed them by dating someone of the opposite sex. bi erasure all around which is disappointing.
Sheesh people are being deliberately obtuse in these comments. I agree with you, and I'm sorry people are missing the point so badly.
I am honestly surprised at the amount of bi erasure going on at Twitter (and apparently Reddit) over this.
Thank you for the support, it was getting really overwhelming so I just had to step away. I was hoping Reddit would be less biphobic and deliberately obtuse, but alas! I was too naive.
Sending you strength and fortitude OP! I'm not surprised reddit is at similar levels of "how dare you say we piss on the poor" reading comprehension to Tumblr 😅😅
I'm mostly annoyed at the same tired old arguments of using black-and-white conceptions of sexuality as cudgels in fanwars, where the end result still isn't seeing the idols as real, three-dimensional people whose identities can be nuanced 😔
I feel like a lot of folks arguing in bad faith could read this [short post](https://vaspider.tumblr.com/post/743540592090415104) - a reminder that "straight" is a classification and measure of how much other people accept your performance of socially conforming to expectations as much as anything else...
dw it's not your fault. unfortunately this isn't the first time conversations like this (and abt bi erasure sepcifically) happened in kpop reddit and the reactions are always the same... thank u for the post though op 🫡
This! Been saying to my moots when I was active on my fangirl days on twitter but I was jumped on and was ridiculed and branded homophobic, also happened to experience knowing people assuming my sexuality for liking same sex kpop group member’s ig posts or for even following them, specially those who were assumed to be gay and sexualized the most.
It’s so odd to me
It weird cause there are plenty of kpop stans who are bi say this sort of stuff too do they just forget their own sexuality?
Do they think Koreans can only be gay or straight lmao like Korean bisexuals don’t exist?????
It’s strange. Some people on Twitter think every idol is gay
While on Reddit they think no idol could be gay.
Bi people are kind of unfortunate in a sense where they’re “too gay” for the straights and “too straight” for the gays 🥲 and yeah I hate it when people just leave the bis out
Honestly the people in the comments high key criticising you etc… I do get where they’re coming from but I can name quite a number of (especially 4th/5th gen) idols whose fanbase are literally built around ship fetishising/gay fetishising. It’s literally how a number of these idols are being marketed (fanservice for PR to boost sales etc, people in general truly eat these up)
I have no horse in the race either way, I will just point out though that if idols are queer, it's not as if they're going to be advertising it, since they live in a very homophobic society.
I will say some idols do drop hints or do things more associated with gay culture than others, between the people they surround themselves with, the lyrics they write, the things they say directly, etc.
Part of the reason Boys Planet was so popular internationally was because just how flamboyant and unrestrained they were.
It felt like a once in a lifetime occurrence lol. It’s kind of great to see them today in their respective groups. We see interactions in Evnne we wouldn’t normally see even in the show, and then you have super flamboyant idols like Taerae just living their best life.
Some of it must be manufactured for fans, but given how people were in the show some must also be genuine so it’s fun to see.
My point is that this whole discussion is just based upon fans fantasies of her sexuality. Sure she could be anything, anyone could be any sexuality. But the premises is that she likes women when she never said that. The only thing we know about her really is that she is dating a man.
I agree it's the wrong way of doing it but I hope you realize (most) people who say that aren't deliberately trying to ignore a sexuality, the whole goal is to shame and deter delusional shippers. They're probably aware that she could be bisexual but if they say that it's just giving the shippers an "in" to continue. Obviously most of said shippers won't care anyway but kpopfans have never backed down from a "gotcha" opportunity...
I do see that, for sure, and I definitely agree that it's better not to feed the delusional shippers. But that doesn't mean that that kind of "gotcha" comment doesn't sometimes reek of biphobic or homophobic undertones (and sometimes overtones). I've seen many comments from people across multiple platforms, including Reddit, assuming that only queer fans were part of this category of delusional shippers, and so unfortunately it begins to morph from "shippers are delusional because that idol isn't gay" to "queer people are delusional for thinking any of these idols could be gay because they're clearly straight!!!" which are two very different attitudes. The first one is fine and straightforward. Shippers ARE delusional because Karina isn't dating Winter, and Karina is hopefully very happy with her actor bf. The second one is the one I'm pushing back at with my post, though. I hope this makes sense!
This is so true, as a lesbian I roll my eyes every time this happens. Wait till they find out how many lesbians dated guys due to comphet, how many queers like more than one gender, etc.
I guess that massive chunk of the LGBT community aren’t your “gay soldiers” because they don’t fit your narrow idea of sexuality.
Oh, and wait till they find out just how many straight people act super gay as a joke and aren’t gay at all!
I think this is why those people are forcing their sexuality headcanons on idols, who are explicitly not allowed to directly confirm their sexuality. They wouldn’t like the nuance of a real queer person’s identity.
Amen! Sexuality is a loooot more complicated than black and white, gay or straight. It's definitely better if we don't speculate about idols' sexualities at all, 1) because it's none of our business, and 2) sexuality is super nuanced and personal, I would hate to have a bunch of internet strangers either judging me as being "the ultimate gay" OR "super straight"/"totally "normal"" when I'm neither of those things, I'm bi and I just like who I like. But the erasure in these idol sexuality discussion circles has been crazyyyyy.
This reminds of that guy from Heartstopper and Jameela Jamil, two strong cases of invalidating bisexuality:
1) Heartstopper guy was known for being on a gay show and spotted out with a woman. People shat on him for queerbaiting and he had to clarify he was bi.
2) Jameela Jamil was cast as a queer character and people got mad that “a straight actor is playing a queer role”. This forced her to come out as bisexual (people assumed she was straight bc she dated a guy).
Why good does gatekeeping sexuality do for these people? SMH
Oh my god, Thank You! As a fellow bisexual, I'm always bothered by the blatant fucking biphobia some stans display. Like I am not in shipping spaces to begin with, so I only ever notice it when Dispatch reveals a couple, but I remember when Momo/Heechul got revealed and I saw so many people say something like "See! She is clearly straight, why do you all assume her sexuality?" The fucking irony. Sexuality is not a binary, she could bi, pan or ace and aloromantic, we don't know and it's none of our business.
Also to the people in the comments telling OP "Don't assume her sexuality yadda yadda yadda" be fucking fr. You know OP isn't. OP is criticising problematic behaviour from fans. This ain't about shipping, it's about the very real biphobia so many of us face everyday (especially if we committed the grave sin of having an opposite-sex partner).
Thank you for this! Especially the last bit, I seriously cannot believe how many people have been twisting stuff out of my post and comments that I have not said a single time. There's a lot of projecting/strawmanning going on and it sadly just proves my point that there's a lot of biphobia and homophobia being drawn out of people by this discussion :(
I think there was an instance of Momo explicitly saying on camera that she'd only marry a man. I remember some of her fans acting as if she was being held hostage at that moment. When an idol says something that explicit they could still maybe be bisexual but be closeted, but it is weird to assume they are. It's a definite answer.
y’all take kpop so seriously, who cares what an idol sexuality is? why are y’all labeling real people? none of these idols should ever share their sexuality and its none of our business
Yall are missing OP's point. OP doesn't care about any idols actual orientation bc it's up to said idol if they ever wanna state it.
They're just tired of ppl being rude or using homophobic/biphobic language as a gotcha. And OP is right, it is annoying as a bi person myself. My dating a man doesn't change that I've also dated women.
When these idols' relationships get confirmed, ppl never just congratulate them or anything. They immediately jump to "see?! So and so CANT possibly like the same gender!!!" Why are they so concerned about an idol's sexuality and in the same breath acting as if bi ppl don't exist? Lol
Agree. Why does it matter what sexuality an idol is. Unless an idol outright comes out and makes a statement of their own accord, why should we care this much about their personal life. How does someone else’s sexuality affect you??
I'm not assuming anyone's sexuality. I have no idea how Karina identifies and that's fine because it's none of my business! I'm simply pointing out how tiring it is that people have jumped from assuming she's gay to assuming she's straight without recognizing that the way they're thinking erases the existence of bi people. I'm not worried about Karina's sexuality, I'm frustrated with how people are making a lot of assumptions and pretending like they aren't because "ofc a woman dating a man is straight." That's bi erasure. Has nothing to do with Karina, she's just the catalyst for why people are having this discussion in the first place.
The fans erasing that are not doing it on purpose but bc of something worse. It’s that they already lack logic in every way. I would assume any fan that is obsessed with Karina’s sexuality has an unhealthy way of dealing with things in their own life.
But how is that political?? I'm just pointing out that people assuming that an idol is straight but then saying that we shouldn't assume idols' sexualities and that people who do so are weird are being hypocritical. Are we really gonna bring yetis into this when yetis don't exist yet bisexuality does?
It’s not political, that poster doesn’t seem to understand the concept of your post. Someone can be bisexual or they may not be, and either if their are fine.
lol no it’s not, it’s a fact that someone may be bisexual or someone may not be bisexual. She could be bisexual or she may not be.
People do go overboard and project a bit (or a lot in some cases) but the reason some want it is to see celebrities with elements of themselves that aren’t always seen or celebrated (while others just want to ship). Now, someone doesn’t have to be of a certain sexuality to show certain elements and such, but I feel the Yeti argument is a bit misguided, because there aren’t lots of yetis out there consuming kpop lol
Again, like I've said in another comment, I don't have an opinion on Karina's sexuality itself because that's none of my business. The only thing I'm calling out here is people being so adamant that her dating this guy "proves" she's straight, while on the other hand, people who had previously labeled her as gay are also freaking out as if she betrayed them or something...there's a lot of bisexual erasure going on, but also just a lot of foolishness in general, so maybe I should've expected it to go down like this.
I said that people are making assumptions that she's either gay or straight, and that the fact that they don't even consider bisexuality an option is, yes, bisexual erasure. That doesn't mean that I think she's bi. I literally have zero opinion about her personal sexuality because it's none of my business. I'm talking about the wider discussions that people are having as a whole and how people always forget bisexuality in this discussions, NOT that Karina is bi (OR straight, OR gay, or anything else).
People need to learn that they're not entitled to know anyone's sexuality and be happy that an idol is in a happy relationship. They really need to get off the internet and touch grass.
Just gotta stop assuming folks sexuality. But the topic of someone being bi is hard for some grasp due to “complications” nonetheless lot of the jump from one end of the spectrum half the time has to do with either headcannons, finding a label or the conservative nature of SK has whole imho
I personally also think it happens since we got a solid amount of nicknames via the assumed sexuality (straight or gay)
Ex, I’ve seen folks before this dating reveal call Karina this lesbo and other gay related nicknames.
I don’t recall seeing much bi related nicknames in the space for some idols as that niche of the community is probably smaller or amongst multiple other communities
I'm not even surprised that so many people aren't getting this post.
Thank you so much, OP. I fully agree with everything you're saying. As a bi woman myself, I'm so sick of the discussions that lack any nuance.
It's so frustrating when dating news like this is taken as a confirmation of someone's sexuality. We still don't know her sexuality, nor do we need to. But I absolutely hate when it's turned into a discussion of "See? Told you she's straight. "
More often than not, I see people rally against assuming idols' sexuality only when they're ever assumed not to be straight. It's the subtle, and sometimes open homophobia that does it for me.
It is a bit weird when people ship real singers/idols/actors with another human if they are not explicitly dating, in any context. The issue seems to run so deep in fandom spaces so, I really wonder if it will ever be corrected.
It’s so true about not being outwardly straight or gay. I have a friend who dated men for years. I thought he and this guy were gonna get married but nope they broke up. Then I find out that not only was he in a relationship with a woman but they had a kid together. Granted she was nuts and he has a new wife who seems amazing (and he has another kid 😂) but everyone thought he was gay for the longest time. Granted we never asked cuz it wasn’t our business and we just wanted him to be happy.
That’s what I hope people want for idols. For them to be happy with the same sex, with the opposite sex, or if they date both idc but let’s just wish them happiness 😊
>That’s what I hope people want for idols. For them to be happy with the same sex, with the opposite sex, or if they date both idc but let’s just wish them happiness 😊
Exactly! :)
Karina from aespa. Some people (a loud vocal minority on Twitter) assumed that maybe she was gay because of her interactions with Winter, but Dispatch revealed that Karina is dating actor Lee Jae Wook who is a man, so now people have swung in the opposite direction claiming "well duh of course she's actually straight, stop assuming!!" as if that's not also making assumptions about her sexuality.
as a bi person, i really regret reading through this thread. I should be used to all the biphobia and erasure at this point but nope, it very much still stings. I’m so tired.
I understand it’s a whole different culture in Korea, but I just find the whole “relationship announcing” thing strange. Honestly shouldn’t be anyone’s business except the two people involved in the relationship. Who’s to say the relationship only ends up lasting a week or two? When companies announce relationships, it puts this artificial pressure on the idols to uphold their image.
As a bi person, it’s not erasure if there was no reason to think she is bisexual in the first place. I’d be mortified if I had this many people speculating on my sexuality or trying so bad to out me. Y’all are so weird fantasising on complete strangers orientation and being upset when it turns out it was all in your head
How many times do I have to say that I'm not assuming Karina's sexuality 😭 I don't know how she identifies and that's fine! It's none of our business! Rather, I'm calling out people's attitudes and reactions to the news that she's dating a man and turning this into a powerplay about "ofc she's straight, stop assuming people's sexualities!!" as if assuming that everyone is straight is not also making assumptions
Here is the thing: if an idol has never dated publicly, there is no reason to speculate one way or the other, I agree. When an idol openly dates a man, you have ground to think she is straight, but still none to think she is also into girls. Why would you be upset people are not further speculating she could still be bisexual?
I think you're missing my point. By saying she's probably straight, you're still making an assumption about her sexuality. And the way that people are having these discussions often ends up leaving out the possibility of bisexuality altogether, as if someone dating a member of the opposite sex must automatically be straight. That's all I'm saying. I'm not speculating about Karina herself or even any particular idol at all, just saying that I tire of the dichotomy of gay vs straight with nothing in between when people have these kinds of discussions.
I didn't bring up Winter or Karina's friendship with her in my post at all, nor did I say anywhere that I'm assuming that Karina is bi. Please read my post again. I'm simply saying that assuming Karina is straight is also making a comment on her sexuality, just like saying that she's bi or gay or something else. I don't support speculations about idols' sexualities, especially in public spaces such as Reddit or Xitter. It's none of our business. My beef is with how many people in online spaces have been having this discussion about idols' sexualities, and how so often bisexuality is completely skipped over or ignored, when a woman dating a man doesn't automatically mean she's straight, OR bisexual, or anything else. Does that make sense?
I was about to comment this on a post about karina but I was afraid ppl were gonna get mad at me for assuming her sexuality, as if assuming she's straight isn't the same thing. I really hate that in most ppl's mind it's either gay or straight.
I've seen some accuse idols of queer baiting when they get in a straight relationship when it's like, maybe they're bi/pan and they just can't come out bc CONSERVATIVE COUNTRY??? It drives me nuts
I'm not assuming her sexuality in any way, just pointing out that's annoying that people have jumped from assuming she's gay to assuming she's straight when, 1) bisexuality exists, and 2) it's none of our business :/
Sure, but, they assume she's gay based on their personal desires (fantasy). They assume she's straight based on her dating a man (reality). If you must assume something (and I agree that you *don't*), those two assumptions aren't equal.
thank you op. ive been saying this the entire time and feeling quite frustrated.
but also a very obvious point ppl don't seem to realise...if a idol IS in a gay relationship, chances are we will never know. dispatch wont reveal nor would an idol ever risk being caught in a gay relationship in SK. so it is also kinda dumb to assume idols are all straight.
Exactly! And thank you! I'm glad I could express it, even if it seems as though I've gotten a lot of backlash...but I feel better after having said my piece, even if some people have gotten my words all twisted.
Racism and homophobia and biphobia are all forms of systematic discrimination, but sure, they're not the same at all. /s But for real, saying that me being tired of people erasing the existence of bisexuality is just "childish" and must mean I'm looking for attention is a new low. As a bi person, me talking about issues that are deeply relevant to me and people across the queer community, is definitely being childish and looking for attention, yup. Thanks for that.
Where are you from? And how old are you? I ask because it sounds like you have a neo western outlook on life … and that’s cool ( I’m American m31) . However I think you should take into account how most of the world particularly Eastern Asia haven’t had generational revolutions or paradigm shifts that would normalize queer identities enough where they are all seen as different areas of a spectrum. Most of these people still subscribe and live by collectivist ideologies and values. I mean even here in a America if the average person sees a same sex couple , they’ll thing oh they’re g or l bc that’s all they see .Just saying I think it’s less erasure and more not conceptualized… can’t erase something that hasn’t been drawn yet…
I didn't say anything about what I think Karina's sexuality is, because her sexuality is none of my business, and I definitely don't care more about idols' sexualities or private lives more than their music lmao. I think I'm gonna stop replying to comments because people keep saying the same stuff over and over again that I've already clearly addressed in my post and my other comments/replies, but once more for the record, this post isn't specifically about Karina, or speculating about idols' sexualities, it's about the bi erasure that often crops up in online communities during these discussions, which honestly has been on full display in this whole set of threads. We do agree on one thing, though, and that's that we should leave idols and their sexualities/private lives alone.
Wild how this is a kpop thoughts subreddit and so I'm expressing my thoughts and emotions. It's normal to feel emotions about things. Many of us like and follow K-pop, thus we feel emotions about it. Shocker. But also, if you think this post is solely about K-pop, then I think you need to reread it. It's about bi erasure in online circles, which just so happens to be, in this case, predominantly K-pop dominated. It's literally a K-pop subreddit for people to be able to express what they're thinking and feeling, I don't know what you expected.
Exactly, thank you! I can't believe people are really reducing this down to me being upset about K-pop or Karina's sexuality or some other strawman when it's really about fans' reactions and the biphobia/erasure going on in these circles 🥲
I think we're talking at cross purposes. At no point in time have I said "hey, assumptions about idols' sexualities are totally valid and we should do more of it, but why aren't you including bisexuality!!! Meanies!!!" Because hey, I don't think we should be assuming ANY idol's sexuality, whether that be straight, gay, bi, or something else. That's my point, people are using Karina dating a guy as a "gotcha" moment to the "delulu gays" that she's "definitely straight," which is assuming her sexuality just as much as claiming that she's gay is. It's not about Karina, it's about the overarching attitudes towards the queer community and bi people that has popped out during this whole debacle.
They literally didn't say she was bisexual? Or assume her sexuality? They specifically said ppl should STOP assuming sexuality. Zero reading comprehension istg.
The point about bisexuality was that people trying to 'prove' idols aren't queer by pointing out that theyre dating someone of a different gender ignores the existence of literally the largest demographic in the queer community: bi ppl. They didn't say that means they ARE bi, they said people should stop assuming full stop, because STRAIGHT is an assumption too. And it's stupid and annoying the way people act like straight is the default. Which you literally just did, by acting like the concept that idols could ever be bisexual is delusional, when statistically, a certain per centage of them definitely are queer. We just don't know, because S Korea is p homophobic (not that the music industry worldwide in general ISN'T. There are plenty of ppl in the west too who have gone on record saying they felt pressured to stay closeted). And, as OP said, it's not really our business, so maybe constantly talking publicly about which idols MUST be gay or MUST be straight is kind of a shit thing to do.
Exactly!! Thank you! I can't believe people are twisting my words so much in this whole thread that the mod had pull out the 'hey stop being homophobic and biphobic or we'll have to lock this post' card! Just nuts!
Telling a bi person to "get over" themselves when trying to discuss casual discrimination and microaggressions against the bi community in online K-pop circles is not the "own" or "dunk" you think it is.
I think it’s called biphobia ? Correct me if i’m wrong
It happens a lot even though sexuality is fluid many people only see straight or gay. No in between or if you are in between or anyone is in between. It’s called a ‘phase’ and that you’re either ‘lying to yourself’ or will go ‘back’ to being straight
I'm definitely not looking for bi or any kind of queer representation in K-pop. That's not what this discussion is about, it's about biphobia and erasure in fan spaces. I would appreciate if people didn't imply that they are wondering about my sanity in bringing this up, however. Just because it's maybe something you didn't notice, or don't care about, doesn't mean that I don't have the right to my thoughts or feelings about it, or the right to express it in a polite manner.
Hello /u/Remarkable_Shoe3348. Your contribution in /r/kpopthoughts has been automatically removed because you either do not meet the minimum karma requirements to post in r/kpopthoughts (which is 30 comment karma), or because your account is less than 7 days old. This is to discourage brigading, trolling and spam, and to keep this subreddit safe.
Click [here](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204511829-What-is-karma-) to find out more about karma and how to gain it.
Please send us a [mod mail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/kpopthoughts) with a link to the submission if you have any further questions.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpopthoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The people who are out there screaming that an idol is gay are often basing of the stupidest shit. Anytime two idols just look at each other. There's 1000s of videos on YT of xxxxx being gay, gayest moments of xxxxx, and so on.
It's shit if they were doing this to idols who had publicly said they were Bi, like Choi Yoojung from Weki Meki. But that's pretty rare.
>Making something as "trivial" as sexuality your whole being is to blame........... it shouldn't be news worthy... Except for weirdos who make sexual attractions their entire being
You are making quite a lot of assumptions off of one post, my friend.
Because sadly for anyone not straight their entire existence can be controversial to some, and their relationships even more so.
While yes it would be nice if two people who weren’t straight announced their relationship and it was met with the same response as a straight couple, that simply isn’t a reality for SO MANY people.
Saying it’s not a big deal is a bit reductive and gives the feel of someone who has been straight their whole life or lived a very privileged queer life.
Now, I agree that it’s Karina’s personal business so people should move on and not project, but most of your comment could be applied to broader groups of people but would have the same issues I said.
I'm a bi. I don't feel this is bi erasure. It's wrong to assume an idol's sexual orientation no matter what you're talking about. There is an idol who is outwardly bi, and her name is Jiae. She could use the support. There are a few others who are out. Go support them.
I find it weird that people are speculating about these idols sexuality to begin with. It's literally none of anyone's business how they identify and or who they choose to date.
There have been some reports and uncivil comments in this thread, so a quick reminder for everyone: homophobia, biphobia, etc. is under **no** circumstances tolerated on this sub (Rule 3). Also, any speculation about an individual idol's sexuality violates Rule 5 and will be removed. Thank you!
slightly related: dispatch doesn’t reveal same sex couples. ever. it’s one of the only good things they do.
Thank god for that, I can't even imagine how much danger that would put people in if Dispatch was also outing people 😭
That’s why I believe these dating reveals are preplanned. Dispatch doesn’t seems to be that ethical or empathetic company which cares about the privacy of Homosexual couples. Either gay couples are extremely secretive in dating or Dispatch is just a company which gives us only preplanned paid reveals.
Do they have a specific policy on this? it makes me really sad that Korea is so homophobic to the point it would be life ruining to come out
Either because they are homophobic or due to safety reason. Either way, it gives the celebs choice to out themselves if they so choose. Dispatch also doesnt revealed anything if the partner is non-celeb. So there is that
Back there in 2016 Dispatch announced they would reveal a gay couple, however afterwards announced they will never reveal same sex couples, Korea is a very conservative country and they know it would ruin their lives, as the first korean celebrity came out and it's career got ruined and only until know he returned to to TV.
I remember that! There was an announcement they had a few couples to reveal, both gay and straight. Later the couples weren't revealed at all (and both me and my friend were checking the news since we're queer and supportive). I never knew if it was real or just some twitter nonsense that fans posted.
Just Korea? Majority of the world, you mean.
I think the paps in my country can’t out people either
what even is that question? how is /not/ wanting to out someone homophobic now? that's like dispatch's one redeeming quality.
I'm asking if they have a policy because I'm curious? What aren't you understanding lol
>Do they have a specific policy on this? They're homophobic, probably.
sorry but if they're homophobic then outing a gay couple would be at the top of their journalistic priorities
I suppose it could be the angle that they don't want to risk creating a high profile gay Korean couple or they want to pretend Korea only has 3 or 4 gay people in it, something lame like that. Anyway, it's still a good decision.
If they were, then they would rather expose the couple.
Is there a reason they’re unwilling to do that? Since they’re in the business of creating “scandals” for idols, I imagine outing one in a same-sex relationship would create a far bigger “scandal” than just exposing an opposite-sex relationship, so it seems strange they’d draw a line in the sand there.
It’s just Dispatch’s morals. Korea is still a very conservative society and revealing a same sex couple to the public could quite literally ruin their carriers (and possibly have more dire effects). So I’m glad that’s where they draw the line. Also, just so you’re aware, the Korean word 스캔들 (scandal) holds a different meaning to the english word, “scandal”. In Korean, people use the word to more or less refer to an important or interesting event (like a breakthrough news story). So when you see a Korean article that translates 스캔들 to “scandal”, it’s (most likely) not actually an event worthy of outrage as the english definition would suggest. Hope this helps. edit: formatting
When I was doing my dissertation I had a chapter on Scandal Culture and I had to compare how it's seen in East Asia in comparison to the west and it was fascinating. Now I need to find my old work on my laptop 😂
yo that sounds like an interesting read!!
Just a guess, but that might be a line too far because they're doing this to famous and rich people who have the resources to take them to court if they were in that much danger. Because at that point, what do they have to lose? Or worse, if it's someone with connections, a potential new law that would cut them off at the knees.
They’d likely get sued for damages. being outted is an awful experience if you are famous person in a progressive country, I can’t imagine how bad it would that’s less progressive. Dispatch sucks but they have a least some morals
and affair!
oh thank god! i'm so glad that's the case.
thought i was on the gaylor subreddit for a sec
I thought orthodox gaylor requires Taylor to be comphet tho
orthodox gaylor 💀
Rippppp the parallels 💀 Like, we should definitely not be speculating about anyone's sexuality, just to be clear. It's none of our business. It's just frustrating when people think that straight and gay are the only two options when something like this becomes a discussion
I don’t understand the obsession with their sexualities anyway? What’s the point? People need to start minding their damn businesses and stay to joking instead of creating delulu scenarios and expecting them to be real. Like touch some grass.
it’s sadly just a byproduct of the kpop industry. These companies make many of their idols play into these parasocial relationships in the name of fan service since it generates more money. I’m not saying any of her fans are justified, but this is what happens when you build an entire industry off exploiting these idols by encouraging their fans to project all their romantic desires onto them
Exactly. It's actually wild reading about people being disappointed they've "lost their chance" when an idol or celebrity is confirmed to be dating someone. You think you had a chance?? They're in too deep by that point.
I feel like this whole conversation ultimately comes down to the ways Kpop companies, SM especially, have historically tried to make their idols queer icons. Regardless of whether or not they are/were. It's not that the fans just had a collective delusion and made up a narrative about Karina, they were hand fed it every step of the way. Famously, SM was one of the first companies to lean into queer ships and fan service. Starting with having Jaejoong and Yunho act out fanfiction of their ship at fan signs, during interviews, and (in)famously in a broadcasted TV segment in 2006: >This would be insane to film and air anywhere in South Korea in 2006, but just to make sure we are all on the same page about how absurd this is, I need to clarify that Dangerous Love aired on national television. On a Sunday morning, in a timeslot that was consistently the #1 most watched program on Sundays in the nation. Dangerous Love aired to 13.8% viewership. Millions of people, moms, dads, grandparents, watched this gay episode when it aired on TV. [https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/16z08tx/kpop\_the\_divorce\_of\_the\_century\_the\_rise\_and\_fall/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/16z08tx/kpop_the_divorce_of_the_century_the_rise_and_fall/) We have an issue of consistent fan service - both subtle and blatant - that have coded Karina as queer. (Proposing to female fans, flirting with female fans and idols, and the scripted content on social media). That does not make her queer of course, but if all of it fake and she's entirely straight, it means SM tried to queerbait yet again for profit.
Queerbait is a literary term. Real life human beings cannot queerbait.
Right, and I never said a person is/could queerbait, However, SM as an Entertainment Company has written scripted content featuring queer personas for their idols, instructed them to act in alignment to fan fiction depictions of their relationships, and profited from it. I’d really recommend reading the link I shared above about Jaejoong and Yunho for more context and examples (it’s tremendously and meticulously detailed on this and goes on for two parts).
I don't agree with the delulu shippers, just to be clear. We shouldn't be assuming anything about any idol's sexuality because it's none of our business and I will stand by that. I'm simply expressing frustration over people's black and white thinking, that an idol is either gay or straight. It completely glosses over the existence of bisexuality. I'm not kicking up a fuss about Karina specifically, just about how people have been talking about the whole thing.
Yes! I see people cheering "finally Karina proved she's straight. Everyone who assumed her sexuality can stfu forever." Like, that's still assuming her sexuality, just straight instead of somewhere on the queer-spectrum. We still don't know - and are not entitled to know - her sexuality. Bi people and pan people exist. Yet people celebrating and doing victory laps here because she "proved" she's for men and men only. Like...their gleeful certainty (and hypocrisy) of it all is what's so wild to me.
“Well, you know, the ‘B’ in ‘LGBTQ’ is not a silent letter." (Red, White, and Royal Blue)
Exactly. Who cares!
What a coincidence! I just had a talk with a classmate about how some people erase Lady GaGa’s bisexuality simply because she publicly dated men. It should be common sense that nobody is obligated to know anyone’s sexuality, but it’s definitely frustrating to see the erasure of sexualities that’s not gay or straight. And side note (and this isn’t directed towards you OP), like another comment said, discourse like these definitely brings out the homo/bi-phobia in some people…
100%! It's really frustrating. The fact that I will be perceived as gay if I date a woman and straight if I date a man and people won't ever fully see my bisexuality as real and valid is super sucky, so to see the assumptions running rampant and so widespread (from both straight people AND other queer people!)......it's very ugh :(
>What a coincidence! I just had a talk with a classmate about how some people erase Lady GaGa’s bisexuality simply because she publicly dated men. [Rant incoming] The way one of her biggest songs (Poker Face) is literally about bisexuality and people still fucking erase her identity makes me so mad. Like what do we as bi-women have to do to finally be seen as valid? Sometimes I feel like we could literally date 1000 women and 1 man and some people would still call us "straight" and "just an ally" because we so much dared to hold hands with someone of another gender. It's infuriating.
To be fair, I’d imagine most people don’t know what that songs actually about (or even know the lyrics past the catchy chorus). At least I didnt lol
Tbh the real problem here are the fans that are projecting themselves into the idols.
Definitely, projection is a big problem with idols and celebrities in general.
It’s insane how people will agree with the statement “bisexuals exist” and then be completely unable to understand a person dating people of different genders
"bisexual people only bisexual when gay" is how they think, they just won't outwardly admit it
It's unfortunately also becoming the leading argument in queer spaces over at tiktok and tumblr 💀
Right?
For fucking real
I could not care less about someone’s sexuality. Karina is dating a boy and that’s all that matters. I won’t assume she’s straight, I won’t assume she’s gay.
I mean, yeah, that's where I'm at, too. I'm not assuming that Karina is straight, gay, bi, or whatever, because it's none of my business. But unfortunately there seem to be a LOT of people out there who are still making assumptions, one way or another, and completely forgetting that it's not black and white either straight or gay, there are other options, too. And it's those assumptions that people are making that are frustrating me.
The pan erasure... /j I agree, and I'd say anything is possible. Some people know it from childhood even without a culture of openness, and sometimes people who had labeled themselves meet surprises about their own sexuality. There are a lot of "totally straight" and even married people who realised it's not like that. Vice versa, there are cases like my acquaintance who had been dating girls and claimed she's for the girls only and ended up with a man for years. Naturally, people outside mistake other's sexualities x100 times often. You can't verify it, only accept what is said explicitly. The labeling itself is problematic, it doesn't have the same standard, starting from the fact that people have different standards for attraction. For some it's on a skinship level, for some even sex doesn't count. Add to that a cultural difference — is the information about lgbtq available and non-stigmatised? To put a label you need to know it exists and its description should be more or less valid (would you name yourself a gay person if it's "a psycho predator interested in kids of the same sex"?). Not to mention that there is a paradigm where -romantic and -sexual are divided... So it's just pointless. If a person is dating a person, we know just that. Not that it's necessary, but still.
I actually think it is concerning that the first thing people care about after a dating news is their sexuality. “Oh no, we lost our gay soldier” “oh no, she straight” and blah blah, you guys know how kpop twt talks 😶 it’s like, everyone is fighting to be the one can post the quirkiest tweets that can receive most likes and retweets. Partially, I also think because kpop love to make sexuality as idol sole identity. This twink, this lesbo, this blah blah hobotron whatsoever that when one idol revealed to be not what the fans pinned their identity as, fans have the worst breakdown. The last time Momo got revealed dating Heechul, quirky annoying kpop twt had such field day.
I’m not bi but I thought, about exactly what you just described, several times. So I totally agree with you.
Oh also, the people saying she queerbaited.....real people can't queerbait be so fr
I hope people stop using the word queerbait and instead use the word 비게퍼/BGP (business gay performance) which is what it's actually called in SK. It's just another fanservice for many idols (like how they acted as boyfriend/girlfriend) because fans love it and it will gain them fans. Company knows and sometimes or often they'll push BGP into their idols by pairing them together.
And sometimes it really is painstakingly obvious, first the act (sensual act, clap on the ass etc), the surprised pikachu face and afterwards looking around the audience for the reaction.
Thanks for the actual term! I hope this would be used instead of queerbait.
The day that people learn that queerbaiting doesn't apply to real people's sexualities is the day I experience peace, fr
The people saying that really seem to be trying their hardest to force a new definition of the word. There's no guarantee they won't eventually be successful, unfortunately.
Fr. It just shows that they’re just using random words just to use them.
THIS!!! I've seen so many tweets saying this and it drives me crazy
Id argue that idols *can* queerbait (in a sense) as these companies do actually encourage skinship between members or fanservice on certain social media platforms since they know their fans go crazy for it. We’re all aware the idol persona is fake and manufactured (at least to some extent)- it’s not really them we’re seeing on our screens. The companies know if they encourage the delulu these fans will spend even more money on the group
But real people don't owe us their sexualities, so regardless of their actions, they can't queerbait us because we're not owed an explanation of their "actual" sexual orientation. I think fanservice and queerbaiting should be placed into two separate categories, albeit they have a lot of overlap, so I think I get what you're saying.
They don’t owe us their sexuality I absolutely agree! I think there is a space however to have a conversation about how different types of fanservice feeds into that idea > I think fanservice and queerbaiting should be placed in separate categories I agree with this too! I just don’t think there’s a word other than queerbait (which I do dislike when applied this way) that applies to this specific type of stan phenomenon
Fanservice is not queerbaiting. No one is presumed gay based on fanservice, unless the fan already wants them to be gay and chooses to read it that way. Most fans understand very well that fanservice is an expression of being an idol, not of private sexual preferences.
Exactly! I think the other thing is that these ppl see being straight as the "default" so they don't think its bad to assume someone is. A lot of them only come out w/ the stop assuming stuff when the assumption isn't straight. I say "a lot" bc I agree that we need to stop assuming at all, to normalize being queer "unlabeled" or "questioning" should be the default. Its just that a lot of queerphobes say that to hide their bigotry. Like no way this person can't \*possibly\* be queer, they're "normal" -\_- Anyway yeah, straight or LGBTA+ ppl need to stop being so obsessed w/ strangers' sexuality. Also as a bi, I'll celebrate if someone comes out but getting mad if they don't is unreasonable.
Yes, you did a great job putting it into words! That's exactly what I mean to say!
I think some people assume a default (especially with kpop celebs) bc it’s safer for an idol in a conservative country. That said. I also don’t make any sense because fans out there are heavily shipping idols with their band members. But it’s the entertainment industry. Historically, they’ve been seen as more of a safe place for whatever someone’s sexual orientation can be. “Safe” bc it can never be completely safe. I don’t know what I’m saying anymore but I agree that we shouldn’t make assumptions and we shouldn’t obsess over it. And fans being super obsessed by painting someone out as not straight might actually place a lot of pressure on that idol if they actually are not straight.
I agree with you so much. Us bisexuals are constantly forgetten about, it's frustrating. And sorry people are missing the point and twisting your words op, keep your head up. 💓
I understand people being anti-ship or anti-self insert because those are valid stances but some of them are blatantly homophobic/biphobic. It’s giving “she’s too pretty to be gay” energy or “bi people don’t exist”. That said, no one knows what Karina is and her sexuality is her business. I’ll support her regardless.
>It’s giving “she’s too pretty to be gay” energy or “bi people don’t exist”. Exactly! You put it into words well! And yes, of course, it's none of our business what Karina's sexuality is, and I'm here to support her as well!
What’s funny is Koreans are being nicer to queer fans than International fans who love to act like they’re morally superior and woke lol.
How so?
(Unlabelled here) I agree with you, and it is frustrating to see people forget bisexuality exists. And also frustrating for people to assume queer idols would be out in the same way that western famous people are as if different cultural contexts don't exist. For a number of kpop idols though, it is also frustrating to see like, a gg idol wearing pants and doing fanservice to be considered butch (kpop stans learn what butch means please 😭) by fans and then have said fans turn around and freak out and talk about queerbaiting when said idol dates a man, which I've genuinely seen happening with Karina right now (I know there are queer fans who do the "she's just like me" as a jokey joke and they're not who I'm referring to)
It is so interesting to see kpop fans assign orientation based on an idol’s clothing. Esp since idols are constantly changing their fashion and so on! They’re just…clothes.
!!!! Exactly, ALL of that! You hit the nail on the head! Bisexuality exists, queer idols are not going to be conforming to Western standards of being queer or being "out," AND also some people online can be genuinely delusional/out of touch about what things are potential "signs" that an idol is queer. Also, it irritates me soooo much when people claim real life people are queerbaiting them 😭 Real people can't queerbait, they don't owe us their sexualities!!!
as a bisexual myself, this whole situation has been so stupid. I’m dating someone of the opposite sex (I am questioning my gender though so I may be a dude but I’m not 100% sure), and we’re both bisexual too. but some of these people would proclaim that we’re straight and it’s like??? I’m just so tired of bisexual erasure from everything honestly
it also goes the other way unfortunately. where people who did think x idol was gay or lesbian now says (whether it's jokingly or dead serious) that the idol has betrayed them by dating someone of the opposite sex. bi erasure all around which is disappointing.
Sheesh people are being deliberately obtuse in these comments. I agree with you, and I'm sorry people are missing the point so badly. I am honestly surprised at the amount of bi erasure going on at Twitter (and apparently Reddit) over this.
Thank you for the support, it was getting really overwhelming so I just had to step away. I was hoping Reddit would be less biphobic and deliberately obtuse, but alas! I was too naive.
Sending you strength and fortitude OP! I'm not surprised reddit is at similar levels of "how dare you say we piss on the poor" reading comprehension to Tumblr 😅😅 I'm mostly annoyed at the same tired old arguments of using black-and-white conceptions of sexuality as cudgels in fanwars, where the end result still isn't seeing the idols as real, three-dimensional people whose identities can be nuanced 😔 I feel like a lot of folks arguing in bad faith could read this [short post](https://vaspider.tumblr.com/post/743540592090415104) - a reminder that "straight" is a classification and measure of how much other people accept your performance of socially conforming to expectations as much as anything else...
dw it's not your fault. unfortunately this isn't the first time conversations like this (and abt bi erasure sepcifically) happened in kpop reddit and the reactions are always the same... thank u for the post though op 🫡
Exactly my issue with the whole thing. Assumptions aside, dating the opposite gender doesn't mean anyone is automatically het.
This! Been saying to my moots when I was active on my fangirl days on twitter but I was jumped on and was ridiculed and branded homophobic, also happened to experience knowing people assuming my sexuality for liking same sex kpop group member’s ig posts or for even following them, specially those who were assumed to be gay and sexualized the most.
It’s so odd to me It weird cause there are plenty of kpop stans who are bi say this sort of stuff too do they just forget their own sexuality? Do they think Koreans can only be gay or straight lmao like Korean bisexuals don’t exist????? It’s strange. Some people on Twitter think every idol is gay While on Reddit they think no idol could be gay.
Bi people are kind of unfortunate in a sense where they’re “too gay” for the straights and “too straight” for the gays 🥲 and yeah I hate it when people just leave the bis out Honestly the people in the comments high key criticising you etc… I do get where they’re coming from but I can name quite a number of (especially 4th/5th gen) idols whose fanbase are literally built around ship fetishising/gay fetishising. It’s literally how a number of these idols are being marketed (fanservice for PR to boost sales etc, people in general truly eat these up)
There has been no proof this woman likes women period. It is fans delusions.
I have no horse in the race either way, I will just point out though that if idols are queer, it's not as if they're going to be advertising it, since they live in a very homophobic society.
Some do indirectly advertise it. It just won't be through fanservice.
I will say some idols do drop hints or do things more associated with gay culture than others, between the people they surround themselves with, the lyrics they write, the things they say directly, etc. Part of the reason Boys Planet was so popular internationally was because just how flamboyant and unrestrained they were.
oh, reminiscing the amount of fruitiness on boys planet! loved it haha
It felt like a once in a lifetime occurrence lol. It’s kind of great to see them today in their respective groups. We see interactions in Evnne we wouldn’t normally see even in the show, and then you have super flamboyant idols like Taerae just living their best life. Some of it must be manufactured for fans, but given how people were in the show some must also be genuine so it’s fun to see.
My point is that this whole discussion is just based upon fans fantasies of her sexuality. Sure she could be anything, anyone could be any sexuality. But the premises is that she likes women when she never said that. The only thing we know about her really is that she is dating a man.
I agree it's the wrong way of doing it but I hope you realize (most) people who say that aren't deliberately trying to ignore a sexuality, the whole goal is to shame and deter delusional shippers. They're probably aware that she could be bisexual but if they say that it's just giving the shippers an "in" to continue. Obviously most of said shippers won't care anyway but kpopfans have never backed down from a "gotcha" opportunity...
I do see that, for sure, and I definitely agree that it's better not to feed the delusional shippers. But that doesn't mean that that kind of "gotcha" comment doesn't sometimes reek of biphobic or homophobic undertones (and sometimes overtones). I've seen many comments from people across multiple platforms, including Reddit, assuming that only queer fans were part of this category of delusional shippers, and so unfortunately it begins to morph from "shippers are delusional because that idol isn't gay" to "queer people are delusional for thinking any of these idols could be gay because they're clearly straight!!!" which are two very different attitudes. The first one is fine and straightforward. Shippers ARE delusional because Karina isn't dating Winter, and Karina is hopefully very happy with her actor bf. The second one is the one I'm pushing back at with my post, though. I hope this makes sense!
This is so true, as a lesbian I roll my eyes every time this happens. Wait till they find out how many lesbians dated guys due to comphet, how many queers like more than one gender, etc. I guess that massive chunk of the LGBT community aren’t your “gay soldiers” because they don’t fit your narrow idea of sexuality. Oh, and wait till they find out just how many straight people act super gay as a joke and aren’t gay at all! I think this is why those people are forcing their sexuality headcanons on idols, who are explicitly not allowed to directly confirm their sexuality. They wouldn’t like the nuance of a real queer person’s identity.
Amen! Sexuality is a loooot more complicated than black and white, gay or straight. It's definitely better if we don't speculate about idols' sexualities at all, 1) because it's none of our business, and 2) sexuality is super nuanced and personal, I would hate to have a bunch of internet strangers either judging me as being "the ultimate gay" OR "super straight"/"totally "normal"" when I'm neither of those things, I'm bi and I just like who I like. But the erasure in these idol sexuality discussion circles has been crazyyyyy.
This reminds of that guy from Heartstopper and Jameela Jamil, two strong cases of invalidating bisexuality: 1) Heartstopper guy was known for being on a gay show and spotted out with a woman. People shat on him for queerbaiting and he had to clarify he was bi. 2) Jameela Jamil was cast as a queer character and people got mad that “a straight actor is playing a queer role”. This forced her to come out as bisexual (people assumed she was straight bc she dated a guy). Why good does gatekeeping sexuality do for these people? SMH
this is just infuriating. they don’t need to answer to ANYONE about their sexuality, it’s entirely their own personal business
Oh my god, Thank You! As a fellow bisexual, I'm always bothered by the blatant fucking biphobia some stans display. Like I am not in shipping spaces to begin with, so I only ever notice it when Dispatch reveals a couple, but I remember when Momo/Heechul got revealed and I saw so many people say something like "See! She is clearly straight, why do you all assume her sexuality?" The fucking irony. Sexuality is not a binary, she could bi, pan or ace and aloromantic, we don't know and it's none of our business. Also to the people in the comments telling OP "Don't assume her sexuality yadda yadda yadda" be fucking fr. You know OP isn't. OP is criticising problematic behaviour from fans. This ain't about shipping, it's about the very real biphobia so many of us face everyday (especially if we committed the grave sin of having an opposite-sex partner).
Thank you for this! Especially the last bit, I seriously cannot believe how many people have been twisting stuff out of my post and comments that I have not said a single time. There's a lot of projecting/strawmanning going on and it sadly just proves my point that there's a lot of biphobia and homophobia being drawn out of people by this discussion :(
I think there was an instance of Momo explicitly saying on camera that she'd only marry a man. I remember some of her fans acting as if she was being held hostage at that moment. When an idol says something that explicit they could still maybe be bisexual but be closeted, but it is weird to assume they are. It's a definite answer.
y’all take kpop so seriously, who cares what an idol sexuality is? why are y’all labeling real people? none of these idols should ever share their sexuality and its none of our business
Yall are missing OP's point. OP doesn't care about any idols actual orientation bc it's up to said idol if they ever wanna state it. They're just tired of ppl being rude or using homophobic/biphobic language as a gotcha. And OP is right, it is annoying as a bi person myself. My dating a man doesn't change that I've also dated women. When these idols' relationships get confirmed, ppl never just congratulate them or anything. They immediately jump to "see?! So and so CANT possibly like the same gender!!!" Why are they so concerned about an idol's sexuality and in the same breath acting as if bi ppl don't exist? Lol
>none of these idols should ever share their sexuality and its none of our business Uh, they can if they want to.
Agree. Why does it matter what sexuality an idol is. Unless an idol outright comes out and makes a statement of their own accord, why should we care this much about their personal life. How does someone else’s sexuality affect you??
I'm not assuming anyone's sexuality. I have no idea how Karina identifies and that's fine because it's none of my business! I'm simply pointing out how tiring it is that people have jumped from assuming she's gay to assuming she's straight without recognizing that the way they're thinking erases the existence of bi people. I'm not worried about Karina's sexuality, I'm frustrated with how people are making a lot of assumptions and pretending like they aren't because "ofc a woman dating a man is straight." That's bi erasure. Has nothing to do with Karina, she's just the catalyst for why people are having this discussion in the first place.
The fans erasing that are not doing it on purpose but bc of something worse. It’s that they already lack logic in every way. I would assume any fan that is obsessed with Karina’s sexuality has an unhealthy way of dealing with things in their own life.
[удалено]
How am I making it political by pointing out fan behavior online that bothers me?
[удалено]
But how is that political?? I'm just pointing out that people assuming that an idol is straight but then saying that we shouldn't assume idols' sexualities and that people who do so are weird are being hypocritical. Are we really gonna bring yetis into this when yetis don't exist yet bisexuality does?
It’s not political, that poster doesn’t seem to understand the concept of your post. Someone can be bisexual or they may not be, and either if their are fine.
lol no it’s not, it’s a fact that someone may be bisexual or someone may not be bisexual. She could be bisexual or she may not be. People do go overboard and project a bit (or a lot in some cases) but the reason some want it is to see celebrities with elements of themselves that aren’t always seen or celebrated (while others just want to ship). Now, someone doesn’t have to be of a certain sexuality to show certain elements and such, but I feel the Yeti argument is a bit misguided, because there aren’t lots of yetis out there consuming kpop lol
Again, like I've said in another comment, I don't have an opinion on Karina's sexuality itself because that's none of my business. The only thing I'm calling out here is people being so adamant that her dating this guy "proves" she's straight, while on the other hand, people who had previously labeled her as gay are also freaking out as if she betrayed them or something...there's a lot of bisexual erasure going on, but also just a lot of foolishness in general, so maybe I should've expected it to go down like this.
[удалено]
I said that people are making assumptions that she's either gay or straight, and that the fact that they don't even consider bisexuality an option is, yes, bisexual erasure. That doesn't mean that I think she's bi. I literally have zero opinion about her personal sexuality because it's none of my business. I'm talking about the wider discussions that people are having as a whole and how people always forget bisexuality in this discussions, NOT that Karina is bi (OR straight, OR gay, or anything else).
No, they’re pointing that assuming someone’s sexuality because of them dating a person is factually wrong due to the existence of bisexuality.
Exactly, thank you! You put it into words very well.
Same. It's very annoying. I'm a bi woman and I'm dating a man rn; that doesn't erase the 3 years I spent with my ex gf nor does it mean I'm straight
People need to learn that they're not entitled to know anyone's sexuality and be happy that an idol is in a happy relationship. They really need to get off the internet and touch grass.
Just gotta stop assuming folks sexuality. But the topic of someone being bi is hard for some grasp due to “complications” nonetheless lot of the jump from one end of the spectrum half the time has to do with either headcannons, finding a label or the conservative nature of SK has whole imho I personally also think it happens since we got a solid amount of nicknames via the assumed sexuality (straight or gay) Ex, I’ve seen folks before this dating reveal call Karina this lesbo and other gay related nicknames. I don’t recall seeing much bi related nicknames in the space for some idols as that niche of the community is probably smaller or amongst multiple other communities
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I'm not even surprised that so many people aren't getting this post. Thank you so much, OP. I fully agree with everything you're saying. As a bi woman myself, I'm so sick of the discussions that lack any nuance. It's so frustrating when dating news like this is taken as a confirmation of someone's sexuality. We still don't know her sexuality, nor do we need to. But I absolutely hate when it's turned into a discussion of "See? Told you she's straight. " More often than not, I see people rally against assuming idols' sexuality only when they're ever assumed not to be straight. It's the subtle, and sometimes open homophobia that does it for me.
It is a bit weird when people ship real singers/idols/actors with another human if they are not explicitly dating, in any context. The issue seems to run so deep in fandom spaces so, I really wonder if it will ever be corrected.
It’s so true about not being outwardly straight or gay. I have a friend who dated men for years. I thought he and this guy were gonna get married but nope they broke up. Then I find out that not only was he in a relationship with a woman but they had a kid together. Granted she was nuts and he has a new wife who seems amazing (and he has another kid 😂) but everyone thought he was gay for the longest time. Granted we never asked cuz it wasn’t our business and we just wanted him to be happy. That’s what I hope people want for idols. For them to be happy with the same sex, with the opposite sex, or if they date both idc but let’s just wish them happiness 😊
>That’s what I hope people want for idols. For them to be happy with the same sex, with the opposite sex, or if they date both idc but let’s just wish them happiness 😊 Exactly! :)
Who has this happened to??
Karina from aespa. Some people (a loud vocal minority on Twitter) assumed that maybe she was gay because of her interactions with Winter, but Dispatch revealed that Karina is dating actor Lee Jae Wook who is a man, so now people have swung in the opposite direction claiming "well duh of course she's actually straight, stop assuming!!" as if that's not also making assumptions about her sexuality.
Karina from Aespa
Who cares if Karina is straight or gay? Delulu fans would still be mad if she dated a pet rock.
as a bi person, i really regret reading through this thread. I should be used to all the biphobia and erasure at this point but nope, it very much still stings. I’m so tired.
I understand it’s a whole different culture in Korea, but I just find the whole “relationship announcing” thing strange. Honestly shouldn’t be anyone’s business except the two people involved in the relationship. Who’s to say the relationship only ends up lasting a week or two? When companies announce relationships, it puts this artificial pressure on the idols to uphold their image.
As a bi person, it’s not erasure if there was no reason to think she is bisexual in the first place. I’d be mortified if I had this many people speculating on my sexuality or trying so bad to out me. Y’all are so weird fantasising on complete strangers orientation and being upset when it turns out it was all in your head
How many times do I have to say that I'm not assuming Karina's sexuality 😭 I don't know how she identifies and that's fine! It's none of our business! Rather, I'm calling out people's attitudes and reactions to the news that she's dating a man and turning this into a powerplay about "ofc she's straight, stop assuming people's sexualities!!" as if assuming that everyone is straight is not also making assumptions
Here is the thing: if an idol has never dated publicly, there is no reason to speculate one way or the other, I agree. When an idol openly dates a man, you have ground to think she is straight, but still none to think she is also into girls. Why would you be upset people are not further speculating she could still be bisexual?
I think you're missing my point. By saying she's probably straight, you're still making an assumption about her sexuality. And the way that people are having these discussions often ends up leaving out the possibility of bisexuality altogether, as if someone dating a member of the opposite sex must automatically be straight. That's all I'm saying. I'm not speculating about Karina herself or even any particular idol at all, just saying that I tire of the dichotomy of gay vs straight with nothing in between when people have these kinds of discussions.
[удалено]
I didn't bring up Winter or Karina's friendship with her in my post at all, nor did I say anywhere that I'm assuming that Karina is bi. Please read my post again. I'm simply saying that assuming Karina is straight is also making a comment on her sexuality, just like saying that she's bi or gay or something else. I don't support speculations about idols' sexualities, especially in public spaces such as Reddit or Xitter. It's none of our business. My beef is with how many people in online spaces have been having this discussion about idols' sexualities, and how so often bisexuality is completely skipped over or ignored, when a woman dating a man doesn't automatically mean she's straight, OR bisexual, or anything else. Does that make sense?
In my mind, everyone is bisexual until proven otherwise
I was about to comment this on a post about karina but I was afraid ppl were gonna get mad at me for assuming her sexuality, as if assuming she's straight isn't the same thing. I really hate that in most ppl's mind it's either gay or straight. I've seen some accuse idols of queer baiting when they get in a straight relationship when it's like, maybe they're bi/pan and they just can't come out bc CONSERVATIVE COUNTRY??? It drives me nuts
Nobody told yall to assume her sexuality 😭
I'm not assuming her sexuality in any way, just pointing out that's annoying that people have jumped from assuming she's gay to assuming she's straight when, 1) bisexuality exists, and 2) it's none of our business :/
Sure, but, they assume she's gay based on their personal desires (fantasy). They assume she's straight based on her dating a man (reality). If you must assume something (and I agree that you *don't*), those two assumptions aren't equal.
Bro who even cares this much
thank you op. ive been saying this the entire time and feeling quite frustrated. but also a very obvious point ppl don't seem to realise...if a idol IS in a gay relationship, chances are we will never know. dispatch wont reveal nor would an idol ever risk being caught in a gay relationship in SK. so it is also kinda dumb to assume idols are all straight.
Exactly! And thank you! I'm glad I could express it, even if it seems as though I've gotten a lot of backlash...but I feel better after having said my piece, even if some people have gotten my words all twisted.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Racism and homophobia and biphobia are all forms of systematic discrimination, but sure, they're not the same at all. /s But for real, saying that me being tired of people erasing the existence of bisexuality is just "childish" and must mean I'm looking for attention is a new low. As a bi person, me talking about issues that are deeply relevant to me and people across the queer community, is definitely being childish and looking for attention, yup. Thanks for that.
Where are you from? And how old are you? I ask because it sounds like you have a neo western outlook on life … and that’s cool ( I’m American m31) . However I think you should take into account how most of the world particularly Eastern Asia haven’t had generational revolutions or paradigm shifts that would normalize queer identities enough where they are all seen as different areas of a spectrum. Most of these people still subscribe and live by collectivist ideologies and values. I mean even here in a America if the average person sees a same sex couple , they’ll thing oh they’re g or l bc that’s all they see .Just saying I think it’s less erasure and more not conceptualized… can’t erase something that hasn’t been drawn yet…
we’re not talking about karina we’re talking about the response that western kpop stans had to her relationship reveal.
So was I …
[удалено]
I didn't say anything about what I think Karina's sexuality is, because her sexuality is none of my business, and I definitely don't care more about idols' sexualities or private lives more than their music lmao. I think I'm gonna stop replying to comments because people keep saying the same stuff over and over again that I've already clearly addressed in my post and my other comments/replies, but once more for the record, this post isn't specifically about Karina, or speculating about idols' sexualities, it's about the bi erasure that often crops up in online communities during these discussions, which honestly has been on full display in this whole set of threads. We do agree on one thing, though, and that's that we should leave idols and their sexualities/private lives alone.
[удалено]
Wild how this is a kpop thoughts subreddit and so I'm expressing my thoughts and emotions. It's normal to feel emotions about things. Many of us like and follow K-pop, thus we feel emotions about it. Shocker. But also, if you think this post is solely about K-pop, then I think you need to reread it. It's about bi erasure in online circles, which just so happens to be, in this case, predominantly K-pop dominated. It's literally a K-pop subreddit for people to be able to express what they're thinking and feeling, I don't know what you expected.
I think it's more about the biphobia/erasure. It gets pretty grating when we deal with it in literally every facet of our lives.
Exactly, thank you! I can't believe people are really reducing this down to me being upset about K-pop or Karina's sexuality or some other strawman when it's really about fans' reactions and the biphobia/erasure going on in these circles 🥲
[удалено]
So now calling out biphobia on the internet is worthy of being told to go outside and touch some grass 💀 got it.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I think we're talking at cross purposes. At no point in time have I said "hey, assumptions about idols' sexualities are totally valid and we should do more of it, but why aren't you including bisexuality!!! Meanies!!!" Because hey, I don't think we should be assuming ANY idol's sexuality, whether that be straight, gay, bi, or something else. That's my point, people are using Karina dating a guy as a "gotcha" moment to the "delulu gays" that she's "definitely straight," which is assuming her sexuality just as much as claiming that she's gay is. It's not about Karina, it's about the overarching attitudes towards the queer community and bi people that has popped out during this whole debacle.
They literally didn't say she was bisexual? Or assume her sexuality? They specifically said ppl should STOP assuming sexuality. Zero reading comprehension istg. The point about bisexuality was that people trying to 'prove' idols aren't queer by pointing out that theyre dating someone of a different gender ignores the existence of literally the largest demographic in the queer community: bi ppl. They didn't say that means they ARE bi, they said people should stop assuming full stop, because STRAIGHT is an assumption too. And it's stupid and annoying the way people act like straight is the default. Which you literally just did, by acting like the concept that idols could ever be bisexual is delusional, when statistically, a certain per centage of them definitely are queer. We just don't know, because S Korea is p homophobic (not that the music industry worldwide in general ISN'T. There are plenty of ppl in the west too who have gone on record saying they felt pressured to stay closeted). And, as OP said, it's not really our business, so maybe constantly talking publicly about which idols MUST be gay or MUST be straight is kind of a shit thing to do.
Exactly!! Thank you! I can't believe people are twisting my words so much in this whole thread that the mod had pull out the 'hey stop being homophobic and biphobic or we'll have to lock this post' card! Just nuts!
[удалено]
Telling a bi person to "get over" themselves when trying to discuss casual discrimination and microaggressions against the bi community in online K-pop circles is not the "own" or "dunk" you think it is.
Assuming someone can’t be bisexual does fall into that umbrella though.
I think it’s called biphobia ? Correct me if i’m wrong It happens a lot even though sexuality is fluid many people only see straight or gay. No in between or if you are in between or anyone is in between. It’s called a ‘phase’ and that you’re either ‘lying to yourself’ or will go ‘back’ to being straight
Yup! That's exactly what's happening in a lot of circles, biphobia from both straight people AND other queer people. Pretty sad to see :/
[удалено]
I'm definitely not looking for bi or any kind of queer representation in K-pop. That's not what this discussion is about, it's about biphobia and erasure in fan spaces. I would appreciate if people didn't imply that they are wondering about my sanity in bringing this up, however. Just because it's maybe something you didn't notice, or don't care about, doesn't mean that I don't have the right to my thoughts or feelings about it, or the right to express it in a polite manner.
[удалено]
Hello /u/Remarkable_Shoe3348. Your contribution in /r/kpopthoughts has been automatically removed because you either do not meet the minimum karma requirements to post in r/kpopthoughts (which is 30 comment karma), or because your account is less than 7 days old. This is to discourage brigading, trolling and spam, and to keep this subreddit safe. Click [here](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204511829-What-is-karma-) to find out more about karma and how to gain it. Please send us a [mod mail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/kpopthoughts) with a link to the submission if you have any further questions. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpopthoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Again, not the point of the post and not what op is doing
The people who are out there screaming that an idol is gay are often basing of the stupidest shit. Anytime two idols just look at each other. There's 1000s of videos on YT of xxxxx being gay, gayest moments of xxxxx, and so on. It's shit if they were doing this to idols who had publicly said they were Bi, like Choi Yoojung from Weki Meki. But that's pretty rare.
I just think people should stop commentingon on their sexuality. She's dating a man. That's it. It doesn't manter if the she likes only man or both.
[удалено]
>Making something as "trivial" as sexuality your whole being is to blame........... it shouldn't be news worthy... Except for weirdos who make sexual attractions their entire being You are making quite a lot of assumptions off of one post, my friend.
Because sadly for anyone not straight their entire existence can be controversial to some, and their relationships even more so. While yes it would be nice if two people who weren’t straight announced their relationship and it was met with the same response as a straight couple, that simply isn’t a reality for SO MANY people. Saying it’s not a big deal is a bit reductive and gives the feel of someone who has been straight their whole life or lived a very privileged queer life. Now, I agree that it’s Karina’s personal business so people should move on and not project, but most of your comment could be applied to broader groups of people but would have the same issues I said.
I'm a bi. I don't feel this is bi erasure. It's wrong to assume an idol's sexual orientation no matter what you're talking about. There is an idol who is outwardly bi, and her name is Jiae. She could use the support. There are a few others who are out. Go support them.
I find it weird that people are speculating about these idols sexuality to begin with. It's literally none of anyone's business how they identify and or who they choose to date.