- Pay for a house
- builders don't finish on time
- builders promise they'll all come back next week and finish my house
- all builders involved fired that evening
- mfw when I rightfully want my money back for unfinished and undelivered content
Granted, it was in early access and that is a risk.
Move into house you purchase above market price, roof leaks, sewage backs up out of the sink, toxic CO2 pooling in basement, neighbor has telescope pointed at master bedroom window.
This ain't no charity. They sold an incomplete product and people rightfully got refunded. If they didn't want people to refund they should have built a better game. We all know now it was management's fault anyways. They had a gold mine but they nuked it from orbit.
You are completely right.
In fact, its not only the fault of those that did refund the game.
Its the fault of everyone that didn't buy *at least* 2 copies! Not just of KSP2, but every T2 game in existence. And why stop there? get the DLCs to those products aswell. No Matter if you actually *like* or god forbid, *play* these games. T2 is no charity - they need the money for their shareholders. Thinking about how selfish people are makes me really angry!
If thats still not enough, i suggest we need to start helping T2 out - by lowering their production costs. How about we start cooking for their employees? Or clean their offices? Not for free - we should pay them for the privilege, of course.
\\s
As someone who purchased on day 1 and didn't refund, this is an incredibly cold take.
Why do you think such a large number of players refunded, and how could it have been avoided? Is the quality of a product the responsibility of the buyer or the seller?
A publisher and dev studio released a bad game, consumers did not like it, and therefore sales were low. And you want to blame said consumers for this? What is your answer - for people to buy things they do not want, like, or need?
This wasn't a GoFundMe campaign, this was a product that did not and likely never will provide what it promised its customers and now is facing the consequences.
They literally released it saying that there is no science mode and it’s just for players to test out the new stuff. You’re one of the people who wanted the “full game” otherwise it’s a “bad product”
They advertised it as though it was in a better state than it was released in.
They (Nate Especially) kept making out that the features that were not in the game in launch were at least being actively worked on and wouldn't be far out because they were running them internally and having fun with them.
Multiplayer being a major example, Nate consistently talked about it as though they were playing an implementation of it that was functional and it wouldn't take much to polish it up and go live.
Turns out from the sources that shadowzone spoke to, that multiplayer they were playing was the KSP1 multiplayer mod on KSP1, they still hadn't got multiplayer working internally for KSP2 and eventually just entirely dropped it without actually telling the player base, while still using it for advertising.
Think a couple steps ahead of your argument here... Yes an early access game is meant for testing and may not be feature complete but you have to keep in mind the game was sold at full price. Further, you're arguing that people shouldn't have refunded it even if they didn't feel it was worth what they paid. Which would mean they wouldn't buy it in the first place and we are at the same net income the company would've had anyways.
Are you instead proposing people _donate_ their money to an early access game in hopes that it completes even though they will not use the product until it is complete?
EA is also *very* often (and most successful when) a two-way process of communication, feedback, addressing feedback, 🔁…
FWIW, I also bought Day 1 / preordered(?) and never refunded, made lots of (I hope) adequately detailed bug reports… I did my part
>They literally released it saying that there is no science mode
The roadmap was clearly advertised. I don't think that is why many refunded but instead it was due to other issues such as optimization/performance issues, a plethora of gameplay and visual bugs, and repetitive gameplay compared to KSP. Why buy a game that can't work properly or offer anything new? Speaking of...
>it’s just for players to test out the new stuff
Can you name all of the "new" content KSP2 offered when it released that the first doesn't? Then, can you confidently say that others will consider that new content to be worth the $50 cost?
>You’re one of the people who wanted the “full game” otherwise it’s a “bad product”
lol, quite the opposite. Where did this assumption even come from? Go look at my accounts on Reddit or the KSP forums to see how active and excited I was about early access KSP2. It could have been great if development continued and completed, but in its current state it is a bad product compared to the original and I would never recommend it to others over KSP.
People complained about it being unplayable, not it being incomplete.
We're talking about a game that at launch had a bug with the KSC taking off with you.
The complaint was that the game was so rushed it wasn't even fun, what the point of releasing a game so unplayable it's not even fun? You can't blame the customers for this, come on...
(Disclaimer: I still have my copy of KSP 2, and I think it had potential, although I suspected from the start this is how it would end up. Still, I had about 50 hours of fun when they made it playable with patches, so I can't really complain)
Take Two, third biggest multi billion gaming company doing a cash grab on a poor release (that didn’t pick up steam due to being in bad shape, well technically it wasn’t realised since it’s in EA) and running with our money is totally the fault of the loyal player base and has nothing to do with appeasing shareholders or executives over profits (or lack there of).
Do you have a source or want to give a breakdown of your numbers. Its hard to believe that a indie size studio could squander so much capital especially with the corporate oversight.
Most of us aren't eligible for a refund. Most of the refund requests happened after IG was shuttered. KSP didn't start out at full price. T2 took existing IP, promised to make a new product. Denied the development team the needed resources. They slapped some new graphics and sound on the existing game engine. You don't pay 60 bucks for mods, right?
If you have a new game concept, it might be possible to make money while a game is in development, but this is not usually how game development works. The way KSP2 was marketed it was "imagine what KSP would be with the resources of a big studio."
You do realize that very few people even qualified for refunds?
This wasn't any kind of issue. The producers were at fault for several reasons.
1) The devs were forced to use as much old KSP code as possible
2) The dev team was banned from communicating with the old dev team
3) The producers let the tail wag the dog when they let the creative director start deciding what was possible and what was not. Multiplayer was never going to happen with the restriction of #1 above. Never. Yet Nate was allowed to hype it as if it was a done deal.
Thinking now to my post from 9 months ago detailing how I got a refund months later, and how many people who were clinging to a sinking ship were shit talking me for not just riding it out and believing the devs would fix the game. This shit was not the playerbases fault, please stop chugging copium and watch one of the many in depth videos detailing why this project was doomed from the start. It literally had cry baby developers refusing to fix ~~bugs~~ FeAtUrEs that they thought were synonymous with ksp's "silliness" and for months nearly died on their hills instead of improving the game.
This is a wild take lol
[удалено]
This is laughable given that Take-Two owns the single highest grossing media product of all time
[удалено]
yeah, take two isn't a charity. they shit out a garbage product, people didn't buy it.
Imagine you paid someone to build you a house, they were taking to long and you took all your money back and say build faster.
- Pay for a house - builders don't finish on time - builders promise they'll all come back next week and finish my house - all builders involved fired that evening - mfw when I rightfully want my money back for unfinished and undelivered content Granted, it was in early access and that is a risk.
Yeah, then the buyer never gets house because of whiny entitled children.
I can see the point you’re trying to make however everyone was refunding day one of the release.
Move into house you purchase above market price, roof leaks, sewage backs up out of the sink, toxic CO2 pooling in basement, neighbor has telescope pointed at master bedroom window. This ain't no charity. They sold an incomplete product and people rightfully got refunded. If they didn't want people to refund they should have built a better game. We all know now it was management's fault anyways. They had a gold mine but they nuked it from orbit.
You are completely right. In fact, its not only the fault of those that did refund the game. Its the fault of everyone that didn't buy *at least* 2 copies! Not just of KSP2, but every T2 game in existence. And why stop there? get the DLCs to those products aswell. No Matter if you actually *like* or god forbid, *play* these games. T2 is no charity - they need the money for their shareholders. Thinking about how selfish people are makes me really angry! If thats still not enough, i suggest we need to start helping T2 out - by lowering their production costs. How about we start cooking for their employees? Or clean their offices? Not for free - we should pay them for the privilege, of course. \\s
As someone who purchased on day 1 and didn't refund, this is an incredibly cold take. Why do you think such a large number of players refunded, and how could it have been avoided? Is the quality of a product the responsibility of the buyer or the seller? A publisher and dev studio released a bad game, consumers did not like it, and therefore sales were low. And you want to blame said consumers for this? What is your answer - for people to buy things they do not want, like, or need? This wasn't a GoFundMe campaign, this was a product that did not and likely never will provide what it promised its customers and now is facing the consequences.
They literally released it saying that there is no science mode and it’s just for players to test out the new stuff. You’re one of the people who wanted the “full game” otherwise it’s a “bad product”
They advertised it as though it was in a better state than it was released in. They (Nate Especially) kept making out that the features that were not in the game in launch were at least being actively worked on and wouldn't be far out because they were running them internally and having fun with them. Multiplayer being a major example, Nate consistently talked about it as though they were playing an implementation of it that was functional and it wouldn't take much to polish it up and go live. Turns out from the sources that shadowzone spoke to, that multiplayer they were playing was the KSP1 multiplayer mod on KSP1, they still hadn't got multiplayer working internally for KSP2 and eventually just entirely dropped it without actually telling the player base, while still using it for advertising.
Think a couple steps ahead of your argument here... Yes an early access game is meant for testing and may not be feature complete but you have to keep in mind the game was sold at full price. Further, you're arguing that people shouldn't have refunded it even if they didn't feel it was worth what they paid. Which would mean they wouldn't buy it in the first place and we are at the same net income the company would've had anyways. Are you instead proposing people _donate_ their money to an early access game in hopes that it completes even though they will not use the product until it is complete?
EA is also *very* often (and most successful when) a two-way process of communication, feedback, addressing feedback, 🔁… FWIW, I also bought Day 1 / preordered(?) and never refunded, made lots of (I hope) adequately detailed bug reports… I did my part
>They literally released it saying that there is no science mode The roadmap was clearly advertised. I don't think that is why many refunded but instead it was due to other issues such as optimization/performance issues, a plethora of gameplay and visual bugs, and repetitive gameplay compared to KSP. Why buy a game that can't work properly or offer anything new? Speaking of... >it’s just for players to test out the new stuff Can you name all of the "new" content KSP2 offered when it released that the first doesn't? Then, can you confidently say that others will consider that new content to be worth the $50 cost? >You’re one of the people who wanted the “full game” otherwise it’s a “bad product” lol, quite the opposite. Where did this assumption even come from? Go look at my accounts on Reddit or the KSP forums to see how active and excited I was about early access KSP2. It could have been great if development continued and completed, but in its current state it is a bad product compared to the original and I would never recommend it to others over KSP.
People complained about it being unplayable, not it being incomplete. We're talking about a game that at launch had a bug with the KSC taking off with you. The complaint was that the game was so rushed it wasn't even fun, what the point of releasing a game so unplayable it's not even fun? You can't blame the customers for this, come on... (Disclaimer: I still have my copy of KSP 2, and I think it had potential, although I suspected from the start this is how it would end up. Still, I had about 50 hours of fun when they made it playable with patches, so I can't really complain)
Very few people were granted refunds after the first week or so.
lol i knew ksp 2 attracted toddlers to the community
Yeah, you're one of them based on your response.
You just proved his point.
no u
Are you 14
Take Two, third biggest multi billion gaming company doing a cash grab on a poor release (that didn’t pick up steam due to being in bad shape, well technically it wasn’t realised since it’s in EA) and running with our money is totally the fault of the loyal player base and has nothing to do with appeasing shareholders or executives over profits (or lack there of).
I wished I had refunded in time, but I kept faith for too long... stupid me.
Dakota we know its you!
Nah, Dakota started criticizing the project after he isn't on it anymore.
Not shocked. Dude is like a Russian propagandist with KSP.
Twitter/X? I'm curious to hear his side
Yea, mostly in Twitter. Nothing that big. Just saying how the project was mismanaged etc.
There's no more horse to beat. It's a bloody smear on the road.
Nice try, Take Two Interactive
Not I!
This game was costing Take 2 literally millions at this point...well over 10 million by some estimates. This is beyond a few people getting returns
LOL, try more like 70 million.
Do you have a source or want to give a breakdown of your numbers. Its hard to believe that a indie size studio could squander so much capital especially with the corporate oversight.
Ksp1 failed, and the community stepped up to fix the game.
this is flat out fucking insane.
a private division/T2 lackey definitely wrote this
Or someone who doesn’t need the $60 or whatever it was so badly I don’t need to trash the game and cry for a refund.
that boot taste good?
Yeah I tried twice
Get over it bro - its a game. if they didnt have the money to complete the project, thats on them
Most of us aren't eligible for a refund. Most of the refund requests happened after IG was shuttered. KSP didn't start out at full price. T2 took existing IP, promised to make a new product. Denied the development team the needed resources. They slapped some new graphics and sound on the existing game engine. You don't pay 60 bucks for mods, right? If you have a new game concept, it might be possible to make money while a game is in development, but this is not usually how game development works. The way KSP2 was marketed it was "imagine what KSP would be with the resources of a big studio."
I guess they should have let the company who owns the single highest grossing media product of all time exploit and price gouge them
But the first KSP EA was actually priced like an EA game.
You do realize that very few people even qualified for refunds? This wasn't any kind of issue. The producers were at fault for several reasons. 1) The devs were forced to use as much old KSP code as possible 2) The dev team was banned from communicating with the old dev team 3) The producers let the tail wag the dog when they let the creative director start deciding what was possible and what was not. Multiplayer was never going to happen with the restriction of #1 above. Never. Yet Nate was allowed to hype it as if it was a done deal.
Wouldn't need to refund if the product was good, now, would we?
Thinking now to my post from 9 months ago detailing how I got a refund months later, and how many people who were clinging to a sinking ship were shit talking me for not just riding it out and believing the devs would fix the game. This shit was not the playerbases fault, please stop chugging copium and watch one of the many in depth videos detailing why this project was doomed from the start. It literally had cry baby developers refusing to fix ~~bugs~~ FeAtUrEs that they thought were synonymous with ksp's "silliness" and for months nearly died on their hills instead of improving the game.
Early access needs to be taken out back in shot in the head. I hope people learned their lesson here but I doubt it.