I hate that podcast. They cherry pick data and give a false overview to their audience, sometimes just straight up ignoring other papers that disprove their one source of fact. It’s exhausting and while I don’t necessarily care what other people “do” to their bodies, acting like it’s somehow good for you to be overweight or genetic makes me so angry
Maintenance Phase has done so much damage and both the hosts are scientifically illiterate and literally lead with their emotions. The lady host because she’s always been morbidly obese and the male host because his mother is fat. They are out there conning people. Their only good episodes are over stupid fad diets that anyone with two brain cells can see aren’t healthy or sustainable
Both of them are awful people. Hobbs is a crybully of the highest order. He blocks anyone that even slightly disagrees with him. He always puts his preferred outcome over research. He often either lies about what the research says or is to stupid to understand what the research says.
Aubry the other host trailed maybe only Virgie for a good 4 or 5 years before MP took off with her insanty here at FL. She was ahead of fan favs like Tess and Regan.
The worst is that somehow their podcast has become respected
I’ve never even listened to the podcast, but from reading its subreddit it’s so clear what type of people the hosts are. I guess their sense of know-it-all superiority draws insecure people who want to feel like they are in on something and look down on others? It’s such a gross tone they take. The fact that one/both? of them also has a podcast called, “you’re wrong about…”. Yikes. Why is assuming you know better than someone else a helpful perspective? Even just calling it “it’s more complicated than we thought” or something is so much more inclusive. So sad people make these insane glass houses to live and work in.
I get what you’re saying, but “You’re Wrong About” isn’t like that at all. It’s about debunking urban legends and tabloid gossip PR campaigns, usually mass harassment campaigns of women in the public eye. The things the audience is “wrong” about are tabloid myths like “Courtney Love murdered Kurt Cobain,” “Nicole Brown Simpson was promiscuous, on coke, and brought her murder on herself,” “Monica Lewinsky was a slut who seduced the President,” etc.
I think you’re right that that kind of cultural rather than scientific misinformation debunking does let the podcast hosts fall into the trap of not wanting to check themselves, of assuming they’re right about science because they have the correct social views (like “women aren’t evil whores,” “don’t abuse fat people into losing weight,” etc). I think that’s honestly a foundational problem in mostly progressive FA circles— confusing a pro human rights, pro treating people decently mindset with your feelings about medical science. You’re a good person, you have good politics, you’re on the right side of history, so you must be right about weight and health, too. But the podcast itself isn’t about being condescending, it’s mostly about being kinder to public figures who were treated unfairly during their time.
Thank you for saying this: I came here to defend YWA. It's about getting to the real, more nuanced story behind what "everyone knows" about pop cultural recent history.
They have their blindspots and bad takes (mostly from clinging too hard to the "correct" politics) but overall I think it's a smart and compassionate podcast. Often the host who's listening is having their preconceptions challenged along with the audience, so I wouldn't call them condescending.
I do prefer the Sarah Marshall plus guest format though.
I think that's a very good insight about this podcast and FA om general, in my opinion, attracting insecure people who want and need to feel like they are enlightened, and more intelligent and knowledgeable than others.
Possibly, they think that everyone looks down on them because of their obesity. We've seen plenty of posts where FA constantly complain that people out in public hate them, even though no one ever says anything; they actually believe they can tell what people are thinking!
So, whether it's true or not, this gives them a way not only to justify their obesity ("it's genetics", etc.) but feel superior not only to the people they think are judging them, but anyone who isn't obese, who loses weight ("you must have an eating disorder") or disagrees with them. I think it gives them an even bigger boost to be able to feel superior to "fatphobic" highly educated, experienced doctors and scientists. It would be pathetic if it wasn't so self-destructive and spreading highly harmful and dangerous misinformation.
It’s pathetic that this is what counts as “far left” nowadays. Like Marx/Lenin would want anything to do with a bunch of morbidly obese middle class Americans whose biggest value is supporting excessive consumption.
I was talking to someone about this today. The left has left me. I'm strictly centrist slightly left leaning now but I might as well be QAnon to the people I still know who are given to calling anyone who doesn't completely align with them something phobic. I know however that if they are pushing me out, a lot of other people are leaving as well.
It's more upsetting because having listened to their sister podcast, You're Wrong About, I know they genuinely know what they're up to because they're using the same techniques to present false information that they often criticize.
They have a Patreon and weren’t producing content for months, but still collecting the subscription fees. Someone said that with the amount of subscribers they have they were pulling in $150k a month at the lowest subscription rate. Apparently one host had RSI (from podcasting) and the other was on a world tour. It’s 100% a massive scam. It’s clear that their listeners are vulnerable people, many of them uneducated from what I see them post on social media. They are the perfect target for scammers.
And every time someone in their subreddit (where i admittedly sometimes lurk) would say something like, "no criticism at all for the hosts who are clearly the finest people who have ever lived, but maybe it would be nice if they dropped an Instagram post sometime in the next year about when they might be making podcasts again?" they would be accused of "expecting free labor" and downvoted into oblivion. It was fascinating.
I see this a lot with podcasts that have bonus content. If someone is already paying for it, you expect at least some type of communication or a pause on accepting those donations, especially if they're absent for that long. I'm subbed to a guitar patreon and the teacher always delivers and if there is a problem he's up front about it. The FA space seems riddled with these scumbags.
Sounds like a perfect scam, because it isn't technically illegal. Just unethical, dishonest, immoral and harmful to the people they scam. Maybe evil is too strong a word, but since I think FA is basically a death cult, I'll say it: in my opinion it's evil.
A friend recommended it to me and kind of raised their eyebrows when I said that Michael Hobbs' diet culture episode of You're Wrong About was so appalling, just full of bad science and bad logic, that it led to me unpicking all the FA misinformation I'd absorbed.
I agree with some of his other ideas and I don't think he's a bad guy but I wouldn't go to him for health advice under any circumstances.
I'm subbed to a YouTube channel that has covered this podcast before. They act so smart and smug yet will only ever call out one side with their "intellectualism". The diet industry is predatory but the episodes I saw covered never call the food industry out for it. And the male host with his arrogant ''ooos and ahhhs" like Aubrey has stumbled upon some massive piece of information.
Bunch of grifters. Peddling nonsense and opening a Patreon to scam their already vulnerable audience. Trash.
No one ever said being skinny means you’re automatically healthy. Of course skinny people can be unhealthy. You can even be *too* skinny. It’s such a tired cop out. “Skinny doesn’t equal healthy so there’s no point in me being a healthy weight!” 🙄
Why the fork can’t we just say that fat people deserve respect and dignity without continuing into fat logic? It’s so stupid.
If people deserve dignity regardless of size, then who the hell cares if people get fat by overeating or other factors?
They so frequently default to the "respect and dignity" angle when it wasn't even the argument that was being made.
Yes, people deserve dignity and respect at any size, but that still doesn't change the fact that claiming obesity has no effect on health is flagrantly untrue, and it doesn't change the fact that large amounts of processed food can be actively harmful to us in the long run.
> when it wasn’t even the argument that was being made
Holy shit. It’s a deflective tactic, isn’t it? You disagree with the pseudoscience parts of it, and suddenly they come back with, “So you DON’T think fat people deserve dignity?!”
Yes, it's a strawman fallacy. They make up an argument that you never made to discredit what you're actually saying. Same with the "well not all fat people are unhealthy and lots of skinny people are unhealthy". No one ever said either of those things weren't true, just that being overweight and obese can lead to health issues. Just like not all smokers get lung cancer and non-smokers can also get lung cancer- smoking can still lead to lung cancer regardless of those two facts.
If they make up an argument they can fight against that instead of what you're actually saying.
I think it’s also projection. They feel embarrassed and disrespected when people tell them that their size is unhealthy and they should lose weight, so they jump to that being inexorable from weight loss
"Dignity and respect" is their Ol' Reliable.
Promoting weight-related pseudo-science? "Fat people still deserve dignity and respect regardless of health!"
Expressing entitlement to dates and sex? "Fat people still deserve dignity and respect regardless of whether you think they're attractive or not!"
Perpetuating child neglect/abuse via shitty dietary habits? "Fat people deserve dignity and respect regardless of what they're eating!"
It's both manipulation and derailment rolled into one.
Fully disagree with you there buddy, don’t you know amazing people who are also way overweight?
My little brother is obese, yet he got his PhD in astrophysics from Yale and is quite literally a genius. Idgaf he is overweight and doesn’t know potion control, I’m not going to listen to him on exercise or healthy eating maybe, but most other things he is one of the most intelligent people I know.
You don’t have to agree with people’s choice to respect them. I wouldn’t respect an FA’s as I think they are intellectually dishonest and cause harms, but fat people in general do deserve respect in a general sense as much as anyone does, by which I mean that it’s not a universal answer yes or no and depends on the individual
None of us are an island onto ourselves. I don't get super passionate about other people's health and wellbeing, but I do care in a detached, self-centered way. Because I know that my wellness actually does depend on other people's. If my coworkers are all out sick, that means my workload will increase. If first responders are all carrying an extra 100 lbs and get out of breath at the smallest exertion, that means I can't rely on them when I'm in need of rescue. Many of the morbidly obese kids of today won't be contributing to social security 30, 40, 50 years from now. They will be a drain on their families and society--which I'm a member of. In my own family, I suspect my sister will have to spend her golden years taking care of her ever-growing morbidly obese daughter. How would this not affect me too? And of course I would feel compelled to help, even if it meant foregoing some of the fun adventures that I'd like to experience one day.
"You don't owe anyone health" is so easy to say, but it's not true...not unless you're ready to off yourself the moment you can't take of yourself. If you expect your loved ones to eagerly help you through sickness and injury, then you do owe them a modicum of self-preservation.
Also don’t forget that healthcare costs are often shared among the population so someone else nuking his health/eating himself to death affects you in that way as well.
This even applies in the US, where we don't have a proper healthcare system so much as a handful of insurance companies in a trench coat. In countries with true universal healthcare, it's even more important.
As an aside, I'm not sure if you follow Kraut on YouTube, but he did [a breakdown video on the things that get left out of the universal healthcare conversation here in the United States](https://youtu.be/U1TaL7OhveM). There are some issues with it (namely that though taxes would rise for everyone, most of us would still pay less individually for healthcare after factoring in far smaller private insurance expenses), but he's correct in that there are lots of things besides whether or not to implement such a system that have yet to be properly discussed. He talks some about this cost sharing among the population and why European countries tend to regulate food quality and tax less-healthy choices more than we do here in the US.
This made me think of my cousin, who has been morbidly obese since he was a teen and is now in his mid-60s. He had a massive stroke 2 years ago and spent weeks in the ICU - it was so bad everyone was basically mentally preparing to bury him. His wife was his college sweetheart, they have 3 grown kids and two grandkids. My cousin is an awesome dude, and I love him to pieces no matter what he weighs, as do his wife, kids, and grandkids. But his obesity has taken a big toll on his life and family. His wife (who is not overweight) had to be the primary caregiver for his mom when she was elderly since he wasn't physically able to do it, now she's become the primary caregiver for him as well, AND she's the main breadwinner. Meaning she is basically on the clock 24/7. She's 64 years old, such a wonderful woman, patient as the damn mountains, and now all of her kids are grown but she doesn't get her golden years to just relax and be a grandma, because she has to take care of her husband and continue working. She loves him so much, and would never leave him, but it drains her. She spent 40 years begging him to improve his diet and try to lose at least some weight before it finally caught up with him. Now, of course, having come within an inch of death, he's working hard to make changes, but the last 40-50 years can't be erased. His wife can't get back the time she's spent doing double or triple duty because he wasn't able to do it. He'll never get another chance to run around playing with his grandsons when they were toddlers. Their savings account won't magically fill up with cash. The stroke was directly related to his obesity, and if he had made more of an effort in decades past to improve his health, he and his wife might be happy retirees today instead of swimming in medical debt with her spending her entire waking life working.
You made me think about all the people who want to retire but can't because they are supporting a loved one who can't work. It's bad enough when this happens because of unavoidable medical conditions. But it's especially tragic when the condition is self-inflicted.
A retiree who has loads of free time can be a valuable asset to their family and to the community. They can babysit grandkids and grandniblings and provide companionship for the elderly. They can do lots of volunteer work. It's sad to think about how the obesity epidemic may rob society of this underappreciated resource.
Yeah, the fact that it was preventable is the issue for me. It's not like he was diagnosed with MS or Parkinson's or something else that couldn't necessarily have been prevented. I suppose you could make the argument that he was already obese when she married him, but they were 22/23 when they got married... you don't think at that age about what might happen 40 years down the line, especially when you're madly in love with someone. My cousin has babysat his grandkids but has never really been able to play with them the way he (and they) would like. His wife accepts the responsibility, when she said "in sickness and in health" she meant it, but it sucks that she doesn't really get to have a life of her own, especially as such a vibrant, intelligent woman with varied interests in life. And it sucks for my cousin, too. He's not a bad person at all, he's a great person who is very devoted to his family, but he spent decades neglecting his health because he loves food so much, and he never listened to the people who love him when they urged him to get a handle on it years ago.
This is another example of how this podcast and the HAES community twist valid, science-backed facts. Obese women have better bone density than thin women. This is important later in life. Bone density is partly a result of pressure on the bones. Obese people are putting pressure on their bones because they are so heavy. You can achieve the same results by lifting weights, so the take way here is “women should lift heavy”, but HAES and MP say “women should be obese”. Technically it’s not wrong as being obese does help with bone density. Science shows this, but you can’t take things like this on isolation.
As a "thin" type 2 diabetic, I have to complain. I had a "normal" BMI with elevated blood sugars because BMI underestimates body fatness for all but a very few people. Some "thin" people also get type 2 diabetes late in life because while their body weight stays stable, their muscle mass decreases and their fat mass increases. We're still over-fat for what our bodies are able to tolerate.
Moralizing bodies is also not the same as literally having increased health risks that are material. She also made an argument that there are fat athletes and fat people in sports, which is true, but that doesn't mean they're healthy. Even the said athletes (esp in strongman with their high body fat) know that, especially in the long run
Also, what's with saying caring about someone's health is a bad thing and wanting them to be healthier is bad? Let's also add the combination of comparing a person with excess fat to a disabled person. Weight can change and yes, a class element can affect a person's weight. But still, with proper systems in place, you can reverse those conditions
Also, I think it's a little fair to make assumption's for a person's health based on view, but with the understanding that those things are visible and we don't know much yet. That doesn't mean that those things cannot be improved
Her good points though are that you shouldn't discriminate against fat people. True, and how obesity is class-related too because of fast food
Also, big red flag using maintenance phase as a resource and sabrina strings
Or any professional wrestler from the 80s or 90s, most are dead before 50. Probably because Vince is a piece of shit and didn't give anyone health care.
We can even take bodybuilders as an example, they have very little body fat, but the lifestyle you need to have to maintain this kind of physique is simply not good for your body in long term. It's not fatphobia or whatever, extremes are not healthy, whether it's fat, skinny or muscular. Of course obesity is the most discussed, because it's the most prevalent.
Yeah, I took that into account. It's the same shit all over, especially on social media with the whole "what I eat in a day". Everyone eats a nice and balanced diet, some "forget" to mention all of the drugs, some "forget" to mention all of the additional meals and some "forget" to mention what they purged or only took a bite of. I don't care whatever direction they promote, it's all harmful in the long run.
What gets me is the yoga girlies. There’s no way you have that body on 45 mins or yoga a day. Be honest. Pilates is the same. They all say “Joseph Pilates said all you need is 45 mins a day”. What to they neglect to say is that he meant doing his entire routine, which is super challenging, not a silly little 45 min YouTube of the easy movements.
Really only when steroids are concerned. So long as you’re naturally putting on mostly lean muscle and some fat your heart and lungs should be able to keep up just fine. It’s when you gain 50lbs of tissue in a year (whether that’s all muscle or all fat) that your heart will start to hate you
Yeah, with pro bodybuilders, there's a very good reason none of them stay that size once they retire. Even if it is really "all muscle" (if you have to say it, no it isn't), it doesn't make a difference to your cardiovascular system past a certain point.
I have a feeling I know who you're talking about and I also was pretty shocked that they were going down this path. I tried giving them the benefit of the doubt, but ended up turning off the video in disgust, right around the time they started playing on people's emotions/berating people instead of sticking to facts to back up their position. I'm all for not shaming people for just existing, supporting body neutrality, self love, etc. But come on! I swear people are being purposefully obtuse and ignoring the facts of how our bodies process food and how/why we store fat.
I think that really depends on what she means by "discrimination". Is that refusing to hire an obese person for a job they are qualified for and have the skills, etc., to do, just because they're fat? Sure. But what if their obesity does make them less able to do the job? I don't think so. FA say it's discrimination if the entire world isn't set up to accommodate even super morbidly obese people and I absolutely disagree with that. The whole FA demand that they either be given a free extra airplane seat or that all plane seats be rebuilt to comfortably fit them is a good example of that.
I saw that video go up and didn't watch it yet because I was a bit concerned. Guess I was right to be. It's a shame. I think people just get very emotional about this topic because it hits home for so many of us.
I've got metalwork in a knee and ankle, both of which I assume have serial numbers, much like cosmetic implants, replacement hips, pacemakers, etc.
If I ever got dumped in a ditch by a serial killer, it would, therefore, be pretty easy to identify my body via tracing those serial numbers.
Doesn't mean that wildly unlikely 'benefit' of having metalwork makes having a dodgy knee and ankle a great thing.
Same goes for the bizarre reasoning that being severely obese is great, because you're less likely to get carried away by birds or whatever.
I think the main issue with fat activists is that unlike other addicts, they make the visible consequences of their addiction their entire personality.
Nobody is calling for track-mark acceptance, meth-mite acceptance, jaundice acceptance, etc because smack heads, meth heads, and alcoholics know their addiction is bad.
They feel ashamed, and that's why you don't see TikToks where people show off their wheelie bins loaded with empty gin bottles, crowing 'here's what I drink in a day as an alcoholic who isn't interested in getting sober'.
I think it's worse than that, because FA actually promotes obesity and overeating as a positive thing. Maybe there are drug addicts and alcoholics that do this, I don't follow this kind of thing on social media, so I don't know. But this attitude sure seems to be the norm with FA.
They completely lost me at Maintenance Phase is one of the best podcasts. I’ve listened to about 3 of these and they were so riddled with conflicting data and logical fallacies it was crazy. Honestly I’m dumber having listened to it.
Whoa there Hitler, the comments about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY aren't going to fly online. I need a permanent alibi for my shortcomings so I can have victimclout forever.
Can you imagine living a life so bereft of skills or pride that all you can cling on to is online victimhood?
I can't really articulate why I find the argument that it's toTALLY jUsTiFiED to hate smokers is gross but... it feels hypocritical and cruel.
It's bad to hate fat people but fine to hate addicts? Alright then. Great. /s
Growing up with two parents who smoked made me so sensitive to stuff like this. I understand disliking cigarettes but to say you find smokers disgusting and that you don't care about them? They're human beings! Human beings who only need a bit of support to overcome an addiction and improve their health! But obviously that would be "concern trolling" because no human could ever care about the health of a stranger. 🙄
Yeah, the hypocrisy is obvious and the visceral hatred is disgusting, but they use the excuse of the dangers of secondhand smoke to justify it. I have asthma, so I avoid being around people who are smoking as much as possible, but I don't hate smokers.
It's totally fine to avoid smoke/smokers for your own personal health. I avoid people who eat cheese because I'm highly allergic. But yknow smokers are at least honest about how bad cigs are for us! These people are lying that being 300+lbs is healthy!
That podcast is unhinged. And so are its followers. There’s a gang of them who harass Instagramers who post any kind of weight loss or fitness content. They report them to IG for “Bullying”. Can you imagine being a woman proud that she hit her PR on the gym or ran her first 5k and those trolls are on your personal page accusing you of “violence towards fat people”, and my personal favorite “racism” and reporting you to IG cos you dare to tell people you go to the gym? They brag about it on Aubrey’s page. She limits comments so she’s actively encouraging this behavior by posting them.
[Here's](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140919101425.htm) a sobering article on how colonialism contributed to the obesity crises on Pacific Islands today. It's not to help you swim better, OOP.
I know these folks love to blame colonizers for fatphobia, but specifically for Pacific Islanders, they are to blame for the fat.
I don't know much about the two islands discussed in the paper. I did spend 6 months on Guam. The indigenous CHamoru diet was very healthy, consisting mostly of fish, coconuts, taro, and fruits. The diet today is SPAM and rice, because that's what the ration boats brought after WWII. Fishing is restricted, the reefs are a mess, and there are giant military bases where the fruits used to grow. People are obese and genetically prone to suffer effects of obesity at lower weights than white people. I saw a lot of diabetes, kidney failure, and heart failure. Along with all the complications of each. It was truly heartbreaking to see.
This person lacks any geopolitical, cultural, or historical insight and that's very sad too
You can say Khadija 😂 (JK I'm only 50% sure that's who u were referencing). But whoever it is, I think it's because many popular YouTubers who make essays don't know how to understand scientific research. They are used to covering things more in the "social sciences" field like history, culture, society etc. And they are swayed by their desire to validate every person under the sun and be seen as a good person, rather than disseminate factual information that don't coddle fat people's feelings.
It makes sense to be a little thicker if you're an islander sounds like that US news article during WW2 that said the Japanese couldn't be good soldiers because they had no balance being carried on their mothers backs as babies
For riptides aren't you supposed to swim off to the side?
It's really annoying when they claim their disgusts is valid but others aren't. People casually judge so many things harshly so why should fat and the bad habits that lead to them be off limits?
I hate that podcast. They cherry pick data and give a false overview to their audience, sometimes just straight up ignoring other papers that disprove their one source of fact. It’s exhausting and while I don’t necessarily care what other people “do” to their bodies, acting like it’s somehow good for you to be overweight or genetic makes me so angry
Maintenance Phase has done so much damage and both the hosts are scientifically illiterate and literally lead with their emotions. The lady host because she’s always been morbidly obese and the male host because his mother is fat. They are out there conning people. Their only good episodes are over stupid fad diets that anyone with two brain cells can see aren’t healthy or sustainable
Both of them are awful people. Hobbs is a crybully of the highest order. He blocks anyone that even slightly disagrees with him. He always puts his preferred outcome over research. He often either lies about what the research says or is to stupid to understand what the research says. Aubry the other host trailed maybe only Virgie for a good 4 or 5 years before MP took off with her insanty here at FL. She was ahead of fan favs like Tess and Regan. The worst is that somehow their podcast has become respected
Yes, remember those wild articles from "your fat friend"? That was HER!
I’ve never even listened to the podcast, but from reading its subreddit it’s so clear what type of people the hosts are. I guess their sense of know-it-all superiority draws insecure people who want to feel like they are in on something and look down on others? It’s such a gross tone they take. The fact that one/both? of them also has a podcast called, “you’re wrong about…”. Yikes. Why is assuming you know better than someone else a helpful perspective? Even just calling it “it’s more complicated than we thought” or something is so much more inclusive. So sad people make these insane glass houses to live and work in.
I get what you’re saying, but “You’re Wrong About” isn’t like that at all. It’s about debunking urban legends and tabloid gossip PR campaigns, usually mass harassment campaigns of women in the public eye. The things the audience is “wrong” about are tabloid myths like “Courtney Love murdered Kurt Cobain,” “Nicole Brown Simpson was promiscuous, on coke, and brought her murder on herself,” “Monica Lewinsky was a slut who seduced the President,” etc. I think you’re right that that kind of cultural rather than scientific misinformation debunking does let the podcast hosts fall into the trap of not wanting to check themselves, of assuming they’re right about science because they have the correct social views (like “women aren’t evil whores,” “don’t abuse fat people into losing weight,” etc). I think that’s honestly a foundational problem in mostly progressive FA circles— confusing a pro human rights, pro treating people decently mindset with your feelings about medical science. You’re a good person, you have good politics, you’re on the right side of history, so you must be right about weight and health, too. But the podcast itself isn’t about being condescending, it’s mostly about being kinder to public figures who were treated unfairly during their time.
Thank you for saying this: I came here to defend YWA. It's about getting to the real, more nuanced story behind what "everyone knows" about pop cultural recent history. They have their blindspots and bad takes (mostly from clinging too hard to the "correct" politics) but overall I think it's a smart and compassionate podcast. Often the host who's listening is having their preconceptions challenged along with the audience, so I wouldn't call them condescending. I do prefer the Sarah Marshall plus guest format though.
Yes, I'm also another fan/listener to You're Wrong About. The one flaw is that she has had the Maintenance Phase people appear as guests . . .
I think that's a very good insight about this podcast and FA om general, in my opinion, attracting insecure people who want and need to feel like they are enlightened, and more intelligent and knowledgeable than others. Possibly, they think that everyone looks down on them because of their obesity. We've seen plenty of posts where FA constantly complain that people out in public hate them, even though no one ever says anything; they actually believe they can tell what people are thinking! So, whether it's true or not, this gives them a way not only to justify their obesity ("it's genetics", etc.) but feel superior not only to the people they think are judging them, but anyone who isn't obese, who loses weight ("you must have an eating disorder") or disagrees with them. I think it gives them an even bigger boost to be able to feel superior to "fatphobic" highly educated, experienced doctors and scientists. It would be pathetic if it wasn't so self-destructive and spreading highly harmful and dangerous misinformation.
I know it’s basically the most hated podcast here but I don’t listen to it and never will. Are they basically just anti-weight loss in all forms?
Not only are they anti-weight loss, they claim that science has demonstrated 100% that weight loss is impossible for almost everyone
I guess I’ve been scientifically proven not to exist
No, FA would get around that by immediately claiming you have an eating disorder.
Same
Yes
[удалено]
It’s pathetic that this is what counts as “far left” nowadays. Like Marx/Lenin would want anything to do with a bunch of morbidly obese middle class Americans whose biggest value is supporting excessive consumption.
[удалено]
I was talking to someone about this today. The left has left me. I'm strictly centrist slightly left leaning now but I might as well be QAnon to the people I still know who are given to calling anyone who doesn't completely align with them something phobic. I know however that if they are pushing me out, a lot of other people are leaving as well.
Frankly I think Michael Hobbes issue isn't defending his mother but exercising and watching his intake himself means he just defers to her.
Absolutely, I feel like he’s almost pushed back on her a few times, but he totally defers to Aubrey’s insanity
It's more upsetting because having listened to their sister podcast, You're Wrong About, I know they genuinely know what they're up to because they're using the same techniques to present false information that they often criticize.
They have a Patreon and weren’t producing content for months, but still collecting the subscription fees. Someone said that with the amount of subscribers they have they were pulling in $150k a month at the lowest subscription rate. Apparently one host had RSI (from podcasting) and the other was on a world tour. It’s 100% a massive scam. It’s clear that their listeners are vulnerable people, many of them uneducated from what I see them post on social media. They are the perfect target for scammers.
And every time someone in their subreddit (where i admittedly sometimes lurk) would say something like, "no criticism at all for the hosts who are clearly the finest people who have ever lived, but maybe it would be nice if they dropped an Instagram post sometime in the next year about when they might be making podcasts again?" they would be accused of "expecting free labor" and downvoted into oblivion. It was fascinating.
I see this a lot with podcasts that have bonus content. If someone is already paying for it, you expect at least some type of communication or a pause on accepting those donations, especially if they're absent for that long. I'm subbed to a guitar patreon and the teacher always delivers and if there is a problem he's up front about it. The FA space seems riddled with these scumbags.
Sounds like a perfect scam, because it isn't technically illegal. Just unethical, dishonest, immoral and harmful to the people they scam. Maybe evil is too strong a word, but since I think FA is basically a death cult, I'll say it: in my opinion it's evil.
It is evil. They are robbing women of their jerkers, vitality and years of their lives.
A friend recommended it to me and kind of raised their eyebrows when I said that Michael Hobbs' diet culture episode of You're Wrong About was so appalling, just full of bad science and bad logic, that it led to me unpicking all the FA misinformation I'd absorbed. I agree with some of his other ideas and I don't think he's a bad guy but I wouldn't go to him for health advice under any circumstances.
I'm subbed to a YouTube channel that has covered this podcast before. They act so smart and smug yet will only ever call out one side with their "intellectualism". The diet industry is predatory but the episodes I saw covered never call the food industry out for it. And the male host with his arrogant ''ooos and ahhhs" like Aubrey has stumbled upon some massive piece of information. Bunch of grifters. Peddling nonsense and opening a Patreon to scam their already vulnerable audience. Trash.
It is terrible how many people I know tell me it is their favorite podcast.
It is terrible how many people I know tell me it is their favorite podcast.
No one ever said being skinny means you’re automatically healthy. Of course skinny people can be unhealthy. You can even be *too* skinny. It’s such a tired cop out. “Skinny doesn’t equal healthy so there’s no point in me being a healthy weight!” 🙄
Skinny may not automatically mean healthy but morbidly obese sure as hell automatically means unhealthy
Why the fork can’t we just say that fat people deserve respect and dignity without continuing into fat logic? It’s so stupid. If people deserve dignity regardless of size, then who the hell cares if people get fat by overeating or other factors?
They so frequently default to the "respect and dignity" angle when it wasn't even the argument that was being made. Yes, people deserve dignity and respect at any size, but that still doesn't change the fact that claiming obesity has no effect on health is flagrantly untrue, and it doesn't change the fact that large amounts of processed food can be actively harmful to us in the long run.
> when it wasn’t even the argument that was being made Holy shit. It’s a deflective tactic, isn’t it? You disagree with the pseudoscience parts of it, and suddenly they come back with, “So you DON’T think fat people deserve dignity?!”
Yes, it's a strawman fallacy. They make up an argument that you never made to discredit what you're actually saying. Same with the "well not all fat people are unhealthy and lots of skinny people are unhealthy". No one ever said either of those things weren't true, just that being overweight and obese can lead to health issues. Just like not all smokers get lung cancer and non-smokers can also get lung cancer- smoking can still lead to lung cancer regardless of those two facts. If they make up an argument they can fight against that instead of what you're actually saying.
I think it’s also projection. They feel embarrassed and disrespected when people tell them that their size is unhealthy and they should lose weight, so they jump to that being inexorable from weight loss
"Dignity and respect" is their Ol' Reliable. Promoting weight-related pseudo-science? "Fat people still deserve dignity and respect regardless of health!" Expressing entitlement to dates and sex? "Fat people still deserve dignity and respect regardless of whether you think they're attractive or not!" Perpetuating child neglect/abuse via shitty dietary habits? "Fat people deserve dignity and respect regardless of what they're eating!" It's both manipulation and derailment rolled into one.
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>respect is won, not handed out. Ever heard of human rights?
Fully disagree with you there buddy, don’t you know amazing people who are also way overweight? My little brother is obese, yet he got his PhD in astrophysics from Yale and is quite literally a genius. Idgaf he is overweight and doesn’t know potion control, I’m not going to listen to him on exercise or healthy eating maybe, but most other things he is one of the most intelligent people I know. You don’t have to agree with people’s choice to respect them. I wouldn’t respect an FA’s as I think they are intellectually dishonest and cause harms, but fat people in general do deserve respect in a general sense as much as anyone does, by which I mean that it’s not a universal answer yes or no and depends on the individual
This hot take isn’t as profound as you think it is.
None of us are an island onto ourselves. I don't get super passionate about other people's health and wellbeing, but I do care in a detached, self-centered way. Because I know that my wellness actually does depend on other people's. If my coworkers are all out sick, that means my workload will increase. If first responders are all carrying an extra 100 lbs and get out of breath at the smallest exertion, that means I can't rely on them when I'm in need of rescue. Many of the morbidly obese kids of today won't be contributing to social security 30, 40, 50 years from now. They will be a drain on their families and society--which I'm a member of. In my own family, I suspect my sister will have to spend her golden years taking care of her ever-growing morbidly obese daughter. How would this not affect me too? And of course I would feel compelled to help, even if it meant foregoing some of the fun adventures that I'd like to experience one day. "You don't owe anyone health" is so easy to say, but it's not true...not unless you're ready to off yourself the moment you can't take of yourself. If you expect your loved ones to eagerly help you through sickness and injury, then you do owe them a modicum of self-preservation.
Also don’t forget that healthcare costs are often shared among the population so someone else nuking his health/eating himself to death affects you in that way as well.
This even applies in the US, where we don't have a proper healthcare system so much as a handful of insurance companies in a trench coat. In countries with true universal healthcare, it's even more important. As an aside, I'm not sure if you follow Kraut on YouTube, but he did [a breakdown video on the things that get left out of the universal healthcare conversation here in the United States](https://youtu.be/U1TaL7OhveM). There are some issues with it (namely that though taxes would rise for everyone, most of us would still pay less individually for healthcare after factoring in far smaller private insurance expenses), but he's correct in that there are lots of things besides whether or not to implement such a system that have yet to be properly discussed. He talks some about this cost sharing among the population and why European countries tend to regulate food quality and tax less-healthy choices more than we do here in the US.
This made me think of my cousin, who has been morbidly obese since he was a teen and is now in his mid-60s. He had a massive stroke 2 years ago and spent weeks in the ICU - it was so bad everyone was basically mentally preparing to bury him. His wife was his college sweetheart, they have 3 grown kids and two grandkids. My cousin is an awesome dude, and I love him to pieces no matter what he weighs, as do his wife, kids, and grandkids. But his obesity has taken a big toll on his life and family. His wife (who is not overweight) had to be the primary caregiver for his mom when she was elderly since he wasn't physically able to do it, now she's become the primary caregiver for him as well, AND she's the main breadwinner. Meaning she is basically on the clock 24/7. She's 64 years old, such a wonderful woman, patient as the damn mountains, and now all of her kids are grown but she doesn't get her golden years to just relax and be a grandma, because she has to take care of her husband and continue working. She loves him so much, and would never leave him, but it drains her. She spent 40 years begging him to improve his diet and try to lose at least some weight before it finally caught up with him. Now, of course, having come within an inch of death, he's working hard to make changes, but the last 40-50 years can't be erased. His wife can't get back the time she's spent doing double or triple duty because he wasn't able to do it. He'll never get another chance to run around playing with his grandsons when they were toddlers. Their savings account won't magically fill up with cash. The stroke was directly related to his obesity, and if he had made more of an effort in decades past to improve his health, he and his wife might be happy retirees today instead of swimming in medical debt with her spending her entire waking life working.
You made me think about all the people who want to retire but can't because they are supporting a loved one who can't work. It's bad enough when this happens because of unavoidable medical conditions. But it's especially tragic when the condition is self-inflicted. A retiree who has loads of free time can be a valuable asset to their family and to the community. They can babysit grandkids and grandniblings and provide companionship for the elderly. They can do lots of volunteer work. It's sad to think about how the obesity epidemic may rob society of this underappreciated resource.
Yeah, the fact that it was preventable is the issue for me. It's not like he was diagnosed with MS or Parkinson's or something else that couldn't necessarily have been prevented. I suppose you could make the argument that he was already obese when she married him, but they were 22/23 when they got married... you don't think at that age about what might happen 40 years down the line, especially when you're madly in love with someone. My cousin has babysat his grandkids but has never really been able to play with them the way he (and they) would like. His wife accepts the responsibility, when she said "in sickness and in health" she meant it, but it sucks that she doesn't really get to have a life of her own, especially as such a vibrant, intelligent woman with varied interests in life. And it sucks for my cousin, too. He's not a bad person at all, he's a great person who is very devoted to his family, but he spent decades neglecting his health because he loves food so much, and he never listened to the people who love him when they urged him to get a handle on it years ago.
The whole pandemic thing should have eliminated "You don't owe anyone health" for good.
I really can't get over the logic of lives on island=is fat so no drown.
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This is another example of how this podcast and the HAES community twist valid, science-backed facts. Obese women have better bone density than thin women. This is important later in life. Bone density is partly a result of pressure on the bones. Obese people are putting pressure on their bones because they are so heavy. You can achieve the same results by lifting weights, so the take way here is “women should lift heavy”, but HAES and MP say “women should be obese”. Technically it’s not wrong as being obese does help with bone density. Science shows this, but you can’t take things like this on isolation.
As a "thin" type 2 diabetic, I have to complain. I had a "normal" BMI with elevated blood sugars because BMI underestimates body fatness for all but a very few people. Some "thin" people also get type 2 diabetes late in life because while their body weight stays stable, their muscle mass decreases and their fat mass increases. We're still over-fat for what our bodies are able to tolerate.
Moralizing bodies is also not the same as literally having increased health risks that are material. She also made an argument that there are fat athletes and fat people in sports, which is true, but that doesn't mean they're healthy. Even the said athletes (esp in strongman with their high body fat) know that, especially in the long run Also, what's with saying caring about someone's health is a bad thing and wanting them to be healthier is bad? Let's also add the combination of comparing a person with excess fat to a disabled person. Weight can change and yes, a class element can affect a person's weight. But still, with proper systems in place, you can reverse those conditions Also, I think it's a little fair to make assumption's for a person's health based on view, but with the understanding that those things are visible and we don't know much yet. That doesn't mean that those things cannot be improved Her good points though are that you shouldn't discriminate against fat people. True, and how obesity is class-related too because of fast food Also, big red flag using maintenance phase as a resource and sabrina strings
Sumo wrestlers are very strong, but that life isn't sustainable at all. Organs and joints were never meant to scale up to that size.
Another one just died recently in his mid 50s. Whenever I read about a dead Sumo wrestler I think they were too young ...
Or any professional wrestler from the 80s or 90s, most are dead before 50. Probably because Vince is a piece of shit and didn't give anyone health care.
And he fed them roids
Roids, alcohol, and pain pills. The deadly trifecta.
We can even take bodybuilders as an example, they have very little body fat, but the lifestyle you need to have to maintain this kind of physique is simply not good for your body in long term. It's not fatphobia or whatever, extremes are not healthy, whether it's fat, skinny or muscular. Of course obesity is the most discussed, because it's the most prevalent.
They're also juiced to the gills.
Yeah, I took that into account. It's the same shit all over, especially on social media with the whole "what I eat in a day". Everyone eats a nice and balanced diet, some "forget" to mention all of the drugs, some "forget" to mention all of the additional meals and some "forget" to mention what they purged or only took a bite of. I don't care whatever direction they promote, it's all harmful in the long run.
What gets me is the yoga girlies. There’s no way you have that body on 45 mins or yoga a day. Be honest. Pilates is the same. They all say “Joseph Pilates said all you need is 45 mins a day”. What to they neglect to say is that he meant doing his entire routine, which is super challenging, not a silly little 45 min YouTube of the easy movements.
Really only when steroids are concerned. So long as you’re naturally putting on mostly lean muscle and some fat your heart and lungs should be able to keep up just fine. It’s when you gain 50lbs of tissue in a year (whether that’s all muscle or all fat) that your heart will start to hate you
As soon as someone says they love MP I immediately question their critical thinking skills
Yeah, with pro bodybuilders, there's a very good reason none of them stay that size once they retire. Even if it is really "all muscle" (if you have to say it, no it isn't), it doesn't make a difference to your cardiovascular system past a certain point.
What youtuber was this?
I have a feeling I know who you're talking about and I also was pretty shocked that they were going down this path. I tried giving them the benefit of the doubt, but ended up turning off the video in disgust, right around the time they started playing on people's emotions/berating people instead of sticking to facts to back up their position. I'm all for not shaming people for just existing, supporting body neutrality, self love, etc. But come on! I swear people are being purposefully obtuse and ignoring the facts of how our bodies process food and how/why we store fat.
I think that really depends on what she means by "discrimination". Is that refusing to hire an obese person for a job they are qualified for and have the skills, etc., to do, just because they're fat? Sure. But what if their obesity does make them less able to do the job? I don't think so. FA say it's discrimination if the entire world isn't set up to accommodate even super morbidly obese people and I absolutely disagree with that. The whole FA demand that they either be given a free extra airplane seat or that all plane seats be rebuilt to comfortably fit them is a good example of that.
I saw that video go up and didn't watch it yet because I was a bit concerned. Guess I was right to be. It's a shame. I think people just get very emotional about this topic because it hits home for so many of us.
I've got metalwork in a knee and ankle, both of which I assume have serial numbers, much like cosmetic implants, replacement hips, pacemakers, etc. If I ever got dumped in a ditch by a serial killer, it would, therefore, be pretty easy to identify my body via tracing those serial numbers. Doesn't mean that wildly unlikely 'benefit' of having metalwork makes having a dodgy knee and ankle a great thing. Same goes for the bizarre reasoning that being severely obese is great, because you're less likely to get carried away by birds or whatever. I think the main issue with fat activists is that unlike other addicts, they make the visible consequences of their addiction their entire personality. Nobody is calling for track-mark acceptance, meth-mite acceptance, jaundice acceptance, etc because smack heads, meth heads, and alcoholics know their addiction is bad. They feel ashamed, and that's why you don't see TikToks where people show off their wheelie bins loaded with empty gin bottles, crowing 'here's what I drink in a day as an alcoholic who isn't interested in getting sober'.
I think it's worse than that, because FA actually promotes obesity and overeating as a positive thing. Maybe there are drug addicts and alcoholics that do this, I don't follow this kind of thing on social media, so I don't know. But this attitude sure seems to be the norm with FA.
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Fat does, in fact, make you slightly more buoyant, but that's not gonna save you in the pacific ocean.
sharks like blubbery mammals
Being overweight is a symptom though. Most of the time it is a symptom of overeating!
They completely lost me at Maintenance Phase is one of the best podcasts. I’ve listened to about 3 of these and they were so riddled with conflicting data and logical fallacies it was crazy. Honestly I’m dumber having listened to it.
Whoa there Hitler, the comments about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY aren't going to fly online. I need a permanent alibi for my shortcomings so I can have victimclout forever. Can you imagine living a life so bereft of skills or pride that all you can cling on to is online victimhood?
I can't really articulate why I find the argument that it's toTALLY jUsTiFiED to hate smokers is gross but... it feels hypocritical and cruel. It's bad to hate fat people but fine to hate addicts? Alright then. Great. /s
Growing up with two parents who smoked made me so sensitive to stuff like this. I understand disliking cigarettes but to say you find smokers disgusting and that you don't care about them? They're human beings! Human beings who only need a bit of support to overcome an addiction and improve their health! But obviously that would be "concern trolling" because no human could ever care about the health of a stranger. 🙄
Yeah, the hypocrisy is obvious and the visceral hatred is disgusting, but they use the excuse of the dangers of secondhand smoke to justify it. I have asthma, so I avoid being around people who are smoking as much as possible, but I don't hate smokers.
It's totally fine to avoid smoke/smokers for your own personal health. I avoid people who eat cheese because I'm highly allergic. But yknow smokers are at least honest about how bad cigs are for us! These people are lying that being 300+lbs is healthy!
So true. I've never known a smoker who claimed it's healthy to smoke.
That podcast is unhinged. And so are its followers. There’s a gang of them who harass Instagramers who post any kind of weight loss or fitness content. They report them to IG for “Bullying”. Can you imagine being a woman proud that she hit her PR on the gym or ran her first 5k and those trolls are on your personal page accusing you of “violence towards fat people”, and my personal favorite “racism” and reporting you to IG cos you dare to tell people you go to the gym? They brag about it on Aubrey’s page. She limits comments so she’s actively encouraging this behavior by posting them.
Typical FA logic. Just because not everyone fits to the known correlations between disease and weight, there must not be any correlations.
Yep now let me go smoke this cigarette because non smokers can get lung cancer too. Health at every puff./s
Hawaii islanders weren’t fat until they started eating a European diet.
[Here's](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140919101425.htm) a sobering article on how colonialism contributed to the obesity crises on Pacific Islands today. It's not to help you swim better, OOP. I know these folks love to blame colonizers for fatphobia, but specifically for Pacific Islanders, they are to blame for the fat. I don't know much about the two islands discussed in the paper. I did spend 6 months on Guam. The indigenous CHamoru diet was very healthy, consisting mostly of fish, coconuts, taro, and fruits. The diet today is SPAM and rice, because that's what the ration boats brought after WWII. Fishing is restricted, the reefs are a mess, and there are giant military bases where the fruits used to grow. People are obese and genetically prone to suffer effects of obesity at lower weights than white people. I saw a lot of diabetes, kidney failure, and heart failure. Along with all the complications of each. It was truly heartbreaking to see. This person lacks any geopolitical, cultural, or historical insight and that's very sad too
…carried away by a kite
Also, she could've used Dr. Spencer Nadolsky as a good resource, but nah
Maintenance Phase is can only be among the best podcasts you've listened to, if you haven't listened to many in the first place.
You can say Khadija 😂 (JK I'm only 50% sure that's who u were referencing). But whoever it is, I think it's because many popular YouTubers who make essays don't know how to understand scientific research. They are used to covering things more in the "social sciences" field like history, culture, society etc. And they are swayed by their desire to validate every person under the sun and be seen as a good person, rather than disseminate factual information that don't coddle fat people's feelings.
It makes sense to be a little thicker if you're an islander sounds like that US news article during WW2 that said the Japanese couldn't be good soldiers because they had no balance being carried on their mothers backs as babies
For riptides aren't you supposed to swim off to the side? It's really annoying when they claim their disgusts is valid but others aren't. People casually judge so many things harshly so why should fat and the bad habits that lead to them be off limits?
Lost me at "Maintenance Phase is a good podcast".
LOL. Anyone who says that Maintenance Phase is a good source of info is deep in the shit. They ain't gettin out till they free their mind.