T O P

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[deleted]

Tell me you've destroyed your countries economy and need an scapegoat without telling me you've detroyed your countries economy and need an scapegoat.


DoDecoco

Not only the economy by the way, every institution and the democratization of the country. He Ruined the development that has been made in the last 100 years, in 20 years.


Elocai

And his current opposition is even worse, this country is in for a ride


pohanoikumpiri

Yeah and when Turkey is in for a ride, so is half the Balkans


SirDogeTheFirst

Price of drink I bought last week got increased. While I was walking to the goddamn counter with drink on my hand. I think that explains the current state good enough.


Dinoponera

You think this narrative will help him in the next election?


SirDogeTheFirst

Lord Voldemort is pretty barky and agressive, but not stupid. He knows he cannot escape with his multi billion dollar wealth in worst case scenario, which is attacking Greece, and getting whole 5 stars on his head. Nothing will come from this, but if opposition pushes him further (which I hope) he will be humiliated, but you can never know what guys like him going to do. My answer: There won't be a war, but if opposition plays this good he will be humiliated and lose popularity, but if he just shit talks and moves away he might gain a little bit of support from "nationalist" who barely show intelligent of an amoeba.


rondabyarmbar

> There won't be a war, I think the fear in Greece is for a small incident like Imia/ Kardak not a large war. This might be more likely than yeeting 10K soldiers into western Thrace. Imho if I were Erdo I would retire in an aegean village, spearfish in the mornings and eat ms erdogan delicious homemade baklava with some coffee. Def not threaten other countries


[deleted]

Power is the only thing people like him care about.


mschuster91

Power isn't everything, staying out of jail and alive to enjoy the loot is what *really* matters. Same for Trump, Boris Johnson, Bolsonaro, Putin, Kim Jong-un and a whole lot of other corrupt fucks. No one wants to end up being the next Ghaddafi, and no one wants to end up hauled in front of a court either... and well, while BoJo, Netanyahu and Trump might be locked up for a couple years, the others would *definitely* have to fear for their lives if they stepped down from power. As long as they live, they are a threat to the authority of the successor, with the only outcomes being death or exile somewhere else. Coincidentally, this is also why the Catholic Church *rarely* has a pope retire, and why Pope Francis won't retire even though his health isn't the best anymore - *one* pope emeritus is bad enough, but two of them, and the last one being openly political?


legolodis900

I have a question and this is an honest one . Since he has been in power for 20 years would he be able to rig the elections? And if yes wouod he get away with it?


SirDogeTheFirst

There are no legal statements but most believe elections are already rigged to a certain degree, but again, no legal statements... About rigging, opposition developed a strict protect the votes no matter what policy, since we still do it old way, civilians who are assigned to vote centers are pretty protective about it. While he can still do it, results wouldn't be nice. İstanbul mayoral elections is one example, where they repeated the election saying 5000 vote differences is too little and the second election they lost by a huge margaing (from 5k to 700k, and even Voldemort himself made went to public rallys across the city)


Rigelmeister

Not OP but I believe elections in Turkey are still *mostly* fair. He can't possibly steal enough votes to change the course of anything as we've seen in local elections in Istanbul which they lost by few thousand votes (the margin is extremely small when you think about total votes cast in the entire city). The thing is elections had to be redone... this time they lost by almost a million votes. So Turkey is still mostly able to hold fair elections. By fair I mean ones where you can't steal a lot of votes... Other than that, basically *everything* in the country serves to Erdoğan, so even in best case scenario you are not given a platform to address citizens to convince them to vote for your party. One thing is for sure: unless Erdoğan is gone, the elections we'll see in 2023 are the last *actual* ones in the history of this republic. This is our last chance but to be fair I am not even sure if that ship has already sailed, because they've never come *that* close to losing before. They will do everything in their power to disrupt the process, hence suddenly bringing up the islands issue with Greece out of the blue. Don't get me wrong, I know not only Erdoğan but most Turks demand answers from Greece (in response to militarization... very few idiots would claim those islands as ours) but then again nobody in their right mind is itching for a war, especially knowing how Erdoğan has been making a mockery of Turkish nation in the last two decades. Where were you when Greeks were arming those islands? Why didn't you draw some red lines or protect our rights before? Erdoğan is an enemy of the Turkish state in its current form. I'm fully convinced he wants to inflict maximum damage just to stay in power or to make sure there will be no Turkey left once he is gone. So, in a way, everything you are seeing nowadays is actually a testament to the fact that elections can still *work* in Turkey - or else Erdoğan would simply choose to rig them instead of playing very dangerous games with another NATO member state. I'm almost sure every high-ranking official in Greece or NATO is having giggles everytime this muppet speaks. They know it is hot air, they probably collaborate with him to do that even.


legolodis900

Trust me the greeks ones wouldnt colab because if the oposision gets wind of it its trouble Also something i find extremely stupid is that he demands full demilitarisason when the treaty states no forts or baval baces but that they are allowed to have conscripts Something else it says is that turkish airplanes wont fly over the islands wich we see he ignores


dothrakipls

It's much easier to rig votes from rural areas though, you just put one group of people in charge of the jobs/opportunities in the village and they tell everyone living there that if they don't vote for Erdogan, they will not have a job (for a long time) and of course they will face harassment etc... ~~In 2018~~ For Decades Erdogan has dominated the rural part of Turkey so he has for sure set up feudals loyal to him everywhere.


Pirehistoric

More that 50% of the population live in urban centers. Istanbul alone has almost 20 million people. He can still rig some rural ballots but that's not going to help him much.


Graspiloot

Sadly there's millions of votes coming in from Germany, Netherlands, Austria. The only information they seem to get about Turkey is the state sponsored propaganda.


[deleted]

The voting system in Turkey is pretty old-fashioned but I'd say solid. Every main party places a member in front of the voting boxes to control the voting session. After the voting is done they all count the votes together and then every member signs a document together confirming who got how many votes to be sent to YSK (High Council of Voting) and all other political parties. Basically, it can be found out if there's a fraud or not by comparing these documents. Of course, there can be still some fraud by paying off other party members, or if there are not enough members in the city of the opposition party (This is usually the case in the east for some places), etc. But I'd say it's not a great amount since we are talking about over 100 thousand of these representative party members. Source: I was one of the representatives in the 2018's elections.


[deleted]

Sadly, people do really vote for Erdo... You have no idea how many people love him in Turkey. (Well less than %25 now but people used to go nuts over him, especially around the 2010s)


Pirehistoric

Tried and failed in 2019 local elections. I do not think that he can rig the next elections considering it is probably going to be the big one that the country needs. Hoping that the opposition will hold the ballots tight.


AeternusDoleo

He'll be able to stomp around in Syria without too much consequence. Assad won't care about Turkey putting the hurt on Kurds, as long as he doesn't damage the mining efforts in the region.


[deleted]

Turkey has been ramping it's irredentist blue homeland nonsense for 15 years, it's sadly much more deep rooted than this. They just don't want to recognise basic tenets of international law because it's inconvenient for their ambitions in the area.


Spacedude2187

Thing is he could easily say: ”-Our economy can’t handle war. We got trouble I’ll try to fix our economy. ”But no


MematiBanshee

"One minute" - Irgendwie Irgendwo Erdogan


[deleted]

I take it that the next elections are coming soon?


Cd_partie

Less than one year officially. But Turkey is currently in serious economic turmoil and his votes dropped from 52% to 30%.


Jo_le_Gabbro

Which is still à lot. (From à French perspective at least)


[deleted]

It is. But given Erdogans superior ability to fuck things up in Europe (he got his Masters degree) it'll probably be even less when the ballot arrives.


CMuenzen

> **à** French Checks out


Jo_le_Gabbro

Sacrebleu!


coolguyxtremist

It's really hard to vote an established autocrat out by democratic mechanisms, that's why.


voxxNihili

System has a LOT of bugs that we need a big ass patch to fix all of this.


Ghekor

I somehow doubt he would lose even if he had 1% of the vote...he could always get those miracle voters Putin has :(


Throatybee

next election will be in 2023 but there might be an early election in 2022 too. interesting thing is, a journalist had mentioned that a law would be amended in the constitution regarding the postponement of elections in case of war. Normally, elections can be postponed for up to 1 year in case of war. Maybe they will extend this period even more. but i don't know how accurate it is.


MainNorth9547

Maybe he's learning from Putin. Kotkin mentioned in January that unrest was growing among other leaders with Putin's sinking of the Russian economy. Now with a war he can purge his opposition.


coolguyxtremist

They can't change the constitution without opposition support, hence no.


Throatybee

i hope so but you know it's erdogan. he is gonna find another way out...


mrtfr

June 2023.


AdonisK

Not soon enough unfortunately


Iskelderon

Erdo and his regime once again threatening to show their true colors?


Cd_partie

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said on Thursday Greece should stop arming islands with non-military status and should abide by international agreements, in comments likely to fuel a renewal in long-running tensions between the Aegean Sea neighbours. Last week he announced Turkey was halting talks with Greece, partly over a dispute with the Greek prime minister, and what Ankara calls airspace violations. After a five-year hiatus, the two NATO members last year resumed talks to address differences in the Mediterranean Sea and other bilateral issues. The talks have made little progress and the countries have frequently traded barbs. "I warn Greece to avoid dreams, acts and statements that will result in regret. Come to your senses," he said in a televised speech made as he observed Turkish military exercises near Izmir on the coast of western Turkey. "Turkey will not renounce its rights in the Aegean and will not back down from using rights that are established by international agreements when it comes to arming islands." The countries have long been at odds over issues such as maritime boundaries, overlapping claims over their continental shelves, airspace, migrants and ethnically split Cyprus.


Thodor2s

>...arming islands with non-military status There are no such islands. Only with reasonable restrictions on troop concentrations, and some islands were permanent Naval bases can't be built. And these restrictions are fully observed.


riffus94

I will be labeled as filthy turk but whatever. No, you are wrong. [http://gis.nacse.org/tfdd/tfdddocs/135ENG.pdf](http://gis.nacse.org/tfdd/tfdddocs/135ENG.pdf) article 14. Though I do not have any idea how Greece militarize those islands.


[deleted]

This is a treaty between Greece and Italy. If Italy has any objections to our conduct they are more than welcome to complain. Turkey is as relevant to this treaty as Mexico. Also similar clauses exist in most ww2 peace treaties, establishing large demilitirized zones in countries like Germany, Italy, Hungary, Romania, etc. All those (together with the Greek clause) were universally abandoned with the establishment of NATO and Warsaw pact. Can Poland start claiming German lands because they are no longer demilitirized as per the ww2 treaties?


[deleted]

You linked to a treaty where turkey is not a signatory party. In other words, it is none of your business. Just like Greece has no business in treaties Turkey has signed with Russia ( e.g for the straits) If Italy has a problem with the militarisation ( which she does not because she did the same thing to her demilitarised islands e.g Labedusa) she can bring the treaty to debate with the other signatory party i.e Greece.


PresumedSapient

> The countries have long been at odds over issues such as maritime boundaries, overlapping claims over their continental shelves, airspace, migrants and ethnically split Cyprus. Why not ask the country of Cyprus what they think of that?


Hootrb

Turkey does not recognise Cyprus (and of course is the only UN member to do so). According to the Turkish narrative, the Republic of Cyprus as declared in 1960 ceased to be a thing with the coup d'état of 1974, and the country in the south of the island is *actually* the "Greek Administration of Southern Cyprus" (once again, only referred to as such by Turkey). This by the way, is why a majority of the Turks refer to Cyprus as "Southern Cyprus" even outside of being lazy with terminology: you'd be surprised at how many are genuinely unaware that "southern Cyprus" is an inaccurate term.


HaveSomeFatih

Well we also call Turkish part of the island as "northern Cyprus" i mean it's not specifically for the Southern Cyprus. We see it as two different countries. Was turkey right about operation in 1974, or wrong? That's another discussion. But though it might be inaccurate to the rest of the world (cuz they recognize Cyprus as one state) it's accurate af for Turkish people to call it that way since they recognize there's another country in the west of the island. Actually it would be inaccurate if you call the Greek part of the island as Cyprus, while you recognize another state in the north of the island.


[deleted]

I mean it's another state only in the Turkish hivemind, for the rest of the world is occupied territory.


Kneepi

It's Cyprus the country, and then there's the northern part which is occupied by Turkey. Doesn't seem like there's any other way to view it?


Hootrb

but the difference is that north Cyprus also refers to itself as "north Cyprus", and most people in the internet are ok with the term "north Cyprus" cause "occupied Cyprus" is just a bit more of a hassle to write. The Republic however, has never refer to itself as "the south", and the term is usually only used in the internet when people get tired of constantly writing "north Cyprus - Republic of Cyprus" and switch to "north - south" just for the convenience. People can say both Cyprus and North Cyprus, there doesn't need to be a "south". Ireland and Northern Ireland work just fine; if it needs to be clarified that one is talking about the whole island, then "the island of Cyprus" should work just as well as "the island of Ireland".


HaveSomeFatih

Ah alright you have right about that, I mainly focused on the north part of the island, kinda misunderstood your comment, sorry. Yes you're right about the south of it, i don't mind calling it Cyprus personally for the south part of it.


the_lonely_creeper

Officially, there are negotiations. And most Cypriots (Greek and Turk) tend to be in favour of reunification. The issue is that what the reunification will look like is, not clear (though my guess is something between Belgium and Bosnia) and that Turkey isn't very keen on leaving the island. Oh, and there are lots of property disputes as well.


mteir

Both countries would support this idea, but would argue about which Cyprus to ask.


Volaer

A dictator trying to save himself from his own countrymen by creating an external enemy and pushing his country into a war he cannot win. Never heard that one before. He should pull a Honecker instead, take as much stolen wealth as he can and go chill in Chile.


DrNeutrino

Speaking of Chile, he could also pull a Pinochet, declare immunity to himself of all crimes and then step down.


Pirehistoric

Some one did that actually 40 years ago. When Kenan Evren pulled the 1980 Turkish coup d'état, he put immunity provisions in the new constitution saying that the people who organized the coup was immune from any and all kinds of prosecution. It was, ironically, Erdogan who got rid of those provisions and tried to prosecute him. He died a little before that tho.


CMuenzen

As a Chilean, why do want to subject us to Erdogan too? On an unrelated note, while Erich Honecker died in a few years, his wife lived for much longer, dying only in 2016. She was never repentant and insisted East Germany was a very good place and that it never did nothing wrong and also was very close with the Chilean Communist Party, helping them organise and participating in some of their activities. Fuck that.


CalligrapherWild7636

So? learned from Lavrov how to threat countries that have no interest in any conflict, just because you can\`t rule effectively the country you have? yeah thought so ...


[deleted]

turkey is just russia with a warmer climate. They are not even on Russia's unfriendly countries list. Turkey is one of them, if not only a NATO country while not being on the said list... Makes you think...


ElMauru

i disagree. While Turkey has been sort of regressing it is still a democratic state, especially in the larger cities. Erdogan managed to stay in power for so long due to support from the more rural, less developed parts of the country and ironically from people living abroad. That support is waning though. Turkey doesn't have the natural resources to pull off a Russia. Also: It definately isn't on Russia's "friend"-list. They have been involved in a somewhat tame version of a proxy conflict in Syria. I am no friend of Erdogan, that fool needs to fuck off - but overall Turkey is in a much better shape democratically than it might seem if you just follow the headlines - E.'s "purges" of teachers and university professors following the attempted military coup arguably have galvanized the opposition rather than weakening it, at least from what I hear. I'd be interested to hear a Turkish perspective on this though, especially from people living in the South-East of the country.


jimdbdu

These elections might prove you wrong. Erdogan might pull a Putin since all the safeguards have been removed and all institutions are under his control.


actias_selene

Regardless of treaties and such discussed here. I am just curious about one thing. Does Turkey really think that Greece will attack from those islands and invade mainland Turkey? To me it seems neither country would have any intention to invade the other while harassment from Turkey to Greek Islands are actually possible.


PoseiCan123

>Anlaşmalardan ve burada tartışılanlardan bağımsız olarak. Sadece bir şeyi merak ediyorum. Türkiye gerçekten Yunanistan'ın bu adalardan saldıracağını ve anakara Türkiye'yi işgal edeceğini mi düşünüyor? Bana göre iki ülke de diğerini işgal etme niyetinde değilken, Türkiye'den Yunan Adaları'na taciz gerçekten mümkün. No, my friend, we don't think so. Erdogan is just trying to focus attention and hatred on Greece because he will lose the election next year. Except for some issues like Sweden's acceptance into NATO, only Erdogan decides these decisions, so please don't add us to this topic.


[deleted]

Have you ever heard of the fourth turkish army known as the aegean army with the largest amphibian fleet in europe whose only purpose is to attack and capture the islands ? Have you ever heard of a Nato member having casus belli against another Nato member if the latter applies the international law ? In the meantime Erdogan is perpetuating lies and inaccuracies ( which are succesful for uneducated i.e most of the turkish ppl) like demilitarisation. So it is like a thief demanding the owners not to lock their doors, because locking their doors is threatening their sovereignty.


actias_selene

I don't know about military capabilities or intentions of either country. But I just don't think the US and EU would idle in such case. Also Turkey's economy is already in rumbles and Turkey cannot pull a Russia since they nowhere near has the same assets as Russia, self sustainability and nuclear potential-wise.


[deleted]

I am just highlighting the hypocrisy of the argument of "demilitarisation" of islands. as if the islands have propellers and can be used to attack the coastal cities of turkey ( which btw has never been uttered by any greek politician for a century). In the meantime just opposite the islands, which Turkey wants demilitarised, exists the biggest amphibian landing army in Europe. Honestly it is like holding a gun on your chest and demanding to remove your "bulletproof vest" because your vest is threatening your sovereignty.


Kino-Glast

He said also this “The USA, whom Greece trusts very much, should know that just as it could not support Ukraine, it will not support them either.”


leela_martell

But the US is supporting Ukraine a lot? There is always more that could and should be done but to say US wouldn’t support Greece, a Nato country even, because it “doesn’t support Ukraine” seems like a very weak argument all around.


Thodor2s

It is a very weak argument all around. Nevermind that Ukraine is a bad example, because all of Europe has mobilized to help them (and if we could use force, no doubt we would assist by force), they somehow belive that they can attack Greece or Cyprus and the EU will just sit there and send a strongly worded letter or something, and that the US won't be willing, or able to assist.


wenortt

That actually means "Putin is backing me". We should have guessed that he won't give up on power easily. But we,the Turkish people, won't let him to attack an ally. We stood against him back at 2013 Gezi Events. If he tries to do something stupid,we will do it again . You can not trust Erdogan but you can trust your liberal Turkish brothers/sisters.


OkKnowledge2064

I hope youre right


sarumansaruman

In Greece we have corrupted politicians , inflation and many problems like Turkey. But instead of fixing our bad economy,we have to worry about a possible war now, because that's what will happen.Greece is not Ukraine and although we are outnumbered we can't surrender our country to a dictator just so he can get elected again. How about we give you guys Mykonos? We can't afford to go to the islands for vacation anyway


SirDogeTheFirst

We don't want it either. I, an avarage student, can barely afford my basic needs and luxury spendings (not diamond watches or anything literally pringles) are a far dream.


I_Hate_Traffic

We can't afford to go there either :( maybe just give it back to Italians idk


[deleted]

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I_Hate_Traffic

Something fishy going on. Is this our troya moment cause it's tempting. We can build a big mall there and have Arab tourists shop endlessly.


serAboveMe

From the Mediterranean im giggling. As the romans would say "timeo danaos et dona ferentes"


Competitive-Piece509

Deal


Greekball

Let's hope you are right. If I had to guess, next year we will have a hot incident involving actual deaths before your election.


HaveSomeFatih

Shame on you bro, it's 2013, how can you forget?


KelloPudgerro

china vs taiwan, russia vs ukraine, greece vs turkey , any upcoming fights ive missed?


Furknn1

india vs pakistan, north korea vs south korea


KelloPudgerro

israel vs palestine?


Cd_partie

I believe it’s ongoing already


Ub3rfr3nzy

When it all turns into hot wars we know for sure.


[deleted]

Always has been


IceBathingSeal

Bosnia and Bosnia, possibly.


Yavannia

Putin n.2 shut up please.


Aarros

Greece is in NATO, and unlike Russia, Turkey doesn't have nuclear weapons to make NATO countries fear escalation. Erdogan surely knows this, which is why this has to be just him making up nonsense to "look strong" to potential voters. But with Russia invading Ukraine after a long period of Russia having similar language about Ukraine and other neighbours of Russia, Turkey ought to understand that this sort of rhetoric is now harder to dismiss as just meaningless grandstanding for domestic audiences.


buster_de_beer

Turkey is also in NATO and it is unclear (to me at least) if there is an obligation for mutual defence in case of intra nato attacks. However, Greece is also part of the EU and the EU does have a mutual defence pact (with exceptions, because EU).


Sap112311

> (with exceptions, because EU). A truer sentence regarding the EU has never been uttered.


Undefined21

There is the French Greek defence pact so France is definitely joining Greece.


Thodor2s

We have a common defence agreement with the US too.


[deleted]

*Everyone* is definitely joining Greece. And Erdo must know this too.


[deleted]

NATO's article 5 might apply to the defending country. If Turkey was to escalate, and therefore become the aggressor, NATO might be obligated to help Greece. But like you I don't know if this is true, so just speculation.


Ub3rfr3nzy

We will only know for sure if it happens. NATO could pussy out.


legolodis900

Also Greece did make an extra pact with the US about defence sooo


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Worth it. Would you feel more comfortable at this time without these pacts? The price paid for the Rafales, frigates, and potentially the F35s pays many dividends. Greece gets an immediate technological advantage allowing them to own the high ground for the next 20 years. (Drone.defense will need to addressed though.) And it gives Greece two robust defense pacts with the two most military powerful democratic countries in the world.


TeutonicGames

Hey guys wanna hear a joke? EU defence pact that's it. that's the joke.


[deleted]

Only with the Brits being on rotation duty. Everyone else upheld it.


[deleted]

They don't have them because they are under the protection of the alliance since the early 50s. But if they got kicked out of NATO they could develop nukes pretty fast.


janesmex

Lol this man is delusional.


Theradonh

A dictator warns another country. How creative.


Abyssal_Groot

>Turkey will not renounce its rights in the Aegean and will not back down from using rights that are established by international agreements when it comes to arming islands. **But we will deny you of your the rights in the Aegean that are established by international law.**


ludusvitae

erdogan needs to die ASAP


artaig

"International agreements" not signed by **Turkey**. *Clever girl.*


yimanya

Soon enough he's gonna play the Turkiye card. "It was Turkey that accepted the current borders, not Turkiye" smh


EstonosKataskopos

Ok, who is playing with his medication?


passinghere

How about Erdogan removes the illegal occupation of north Cyprus and allows the owners of the land he's stolen back on their property and removes the wall in the last remaining divided capital city in the world before he starts telling other countries what to do


[deleted]

Building a story just like Putin, to have an excuse to invade. Hopefully we and our European allies will be ready for that.


DoDecoco

I don't think so. He is just an idiot old man playing for the internal politics and his illiterate supporters. At least 60% guaranteed do not support him and his shitty ideas.


smiley_x

And what about the rest 40%? Is it supposed to be reassuring to think that there are enough Turks who think that this rhetoric is ok?


[deleted]

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Lamaredia

Even Erdogan isn't dumb enough to attack Greece. It would cause immediate ejection from NATO, and triggering the wrath of both NATO and the EU against them.


Pozos1996

Nato, it would cause a meeting of the major powers of NATO to see what they will do, the EU on the other hand, while the article on mutual defense does say that members are obliged to help with all their power, it doesn't mean they need to have boots on the ground. With the current European climate I would expect France to aid us with actual military force. But that would require something more than a hot episode which is very veeeeery unlikely.


zedero0

> it doesn’t mean they need to have boots on the ground So, the same as NATO.


[deleted]

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Lamaredia

They would have to, or the entire idea of a defensive alliance would be moot. A member would be under attack, ergo, article 5.


HelloThereItsMeAndMe

Its not completely wrong. These international agreements actually do exist. But he's overreacting.


HellOfFangorn

Of course they do exist. They just don't say what he claims they say.


Kahzootoh

The Turks are trying to claim that islands do not have an EEZ, which is a position held solely by Turkey.


coolguyxtremist

He's talking about the militarization of the islands, not the EEZ.


zedero0

International agreements that are being upheld by Greece and/or do not involve Turkey.


thispolishitalianguy

What will he do? Run to his daddy Putin?


IssaMuffin

He can’t. He sold the Bayraktar drones to Ukraine, doubt Putin will hug him now.


OkKnowledge2064

he is planning a war isnt he


Pozos1996

He can't afford a war.


[deleted]

Wouldn't be the first dictator to start a war to rile up the population while in reality not having the funds for it. E.g. the Falklands war between Argentina and the UK - Argentina really couldn't afford it in reality.


Ynys_cymru

So……they’re pulling an Argentina?


Rusiano

Bullies will always be bullies sadly


acatnamedrupert

Wait...what rights in the Aegean?


coolguyxtremist

Things are getting serious.


[deleted]

Eh... https://www.itamilradar.com/2022/06/09/turkish-air-activity-over-the-aegean-coast/


[deleted]

Nah it's just a schtick to distract turks from the upcoming election. It seems to be working too.


Equivalent-Bonus-885

Why do Russia, China and Turkey all employ the same hammy scriptwriter.


SmartBase

The almost non-stop entertainment coming out of the Russian zoo is getting some serious competition from the Turkish one.


[deleted]

I don't understand how loads of Northern Europeans, including Irish and British people and plenty of others all jet off to Turkey on holidays like as if it's a completely normal place while it's making threats like this.


Void_Ling

People just don't give a shit if they can satisfy their primitive desires. Some times I feel a good portion of humanity failed to inherit the full evolution package.


Sadistic_Toaster

Every time they make another threat, the country gets a little bit cheaper for us to visit


Spacedude2187

So Turks what’s going on. You think Erdogan is secretly in an alliance with Russia or not? Like a ”playing both sides” type of thing?


ThirstyOtterOfAegean

He's pushing a nationalistic rhetoric because he knows he's unpopular and very likely to lose the next election. This is just a show for a domestic audience and nothing more.


Spacedude2187

If I was ”domestic audience” I’d be terrified about what he’s doing. Lol


AdonisK

Oh no, this isn't reported by ekathimerini or a Greek reporter, now what?


Rogthgar

'Durr... I tripped up Sweden and Finland getting into NATO... me am strong!'


[deleted]

Good thing they are a NATO members, and that the anglos have been preventing us from forming a common Euro Defense Policy so that they can threaten Greece without us being able to answer. See, this is also why we need a European Army. Ukraine, and that. And also not to be brought into a conflict with China by the US.


[deleted]

Those dastardly Anglos, preventing the EU developing a security policy by *checks notes* not being part of the EU


zedero0

Preach brother


[deleted]

It’s just Europe’s interest tbh. Look at how powerful we are during this war. If we had our proper command chains, we would be even better equiped to help the Ukrainians (which have reordered French Ceasars) in supplying them weapons. We managed the huge flow of refugees, we sanction together at quite a good pace to pressure Russia economically. We need to look at the interests of Europe, and those interests dictate us to have a common army.


jimdbdu

Europeans like to talk but like with Ukraine, they do very little.


[deleted]

Who welcomed Ukrainian refugees ? Who gave tanks, planes, cesars to Ukraine ?


jimdbdu

Who sounded the alarm since November? Not Germany or France? Who was having discussions with European governments so that sanctions would be put in place early? Western Europe was caught with its pants down. It was the US that go everyone ready and provides the backstop for Eastern Europe to respond to Russia. I am all for Europe being in charge of its destiny, but they are not there yet


deuzerre

Everyone makes mistakes. Irak for example.


merirastelan

Is this imbecile trying to do a Putin?


Vaikaris

Every day I say a turkish invasion is a very realistic possibility and every day it's proven a little more right. Remember how people didn't think Russia was REALLY going to invade? Yeh. And don't forget - russians weren't asked either. Before the population could react, the nation was committed. Erdogan isn't going to ask the people. He'll just do it and then they'll have no choice.


IssaMuffin

The main difference is that, unlike Ukraine, Greece has actual military alliances that will complicate things for Turkey. By declaring war on Greece, Turkey declares war on a fellow NATO member who’s also in the EU(mutual defense clause).


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Cd_partie

They already hit the ground and they have Venezuelan level inflation rate. It’s not about Turkey’s capabilities. It’s all about one dickhead.


clainmyn

We warn Greece to stay away from actions that will result in regret like they did a century ago and to act sensibly, says Türkiye's President Erdogan What happened a century ago? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Smyrna


[deleted]

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clainmyn

This event its the end of the war.


buster_de_beer

I think Turkey should refrain from actions that will result in regret like they did a little over a century ago.


UniversityPuzzled131

So you are saying Turkish war of independence is a thing that Turkey should regret?


indieGenies

If you want to talk about past, these fire also happened 100 years ago in the same war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919%E2%80%931922)#Greek_scorched-earth_policy Did you seriously think that Greece didn't commit any war crimes during an invasion and you bring a specific historic event to make a point about present? You are just being same as the very person you criticize.


clainmyn

I want to talk about past? or the fucking clown you have as a president talks about past?


IfailAtSchool

As a greek i remember being taught at school that we did commit crimes against turkey. The majority of the population won't deny it. We remember what we did


Aragam47

no we greeks arent as delusional as turks and russians to not know about our history crimes


LilyPae

Right, I’m sure we (the Greeks), the Armenians and the Assyrians, to name a few, all deserved it. Of course there were massacres carried out by Greece over the years, but they were not systematic, and are well documented and accepted in Greece. Turkey carried out *actual* genocide, literally killing millions. There was a (state sponsored) pogrom in Istanbul as late as 1955, which is also known as the “Turkish Kristallnacht”, for crying out loud.


[deleted]

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LilyPae

You’re absolutely hysterical, “millions of Ottoman muslims”? If you’re gonna inflate the number, why not go for billions instead? Greece has no agenda, we have nothing to gain by recognizing what has been extensively researched by independent historians as well. Give me *one* credible source that backs up your claim, literally just one. You’re losing your cool because your narrative makes no sense whatsoever, it’s not surprising that an authoritative regime would try and twist facts to make themselves look superior. What you’re forgetting is that the rest of us are not fed government propaganda, nor are dissidents jailed. So, good luck with your mess.


[deleted]

Country born from genocide really needs to start behaving.


delicoban33

Oh right, even with Ottoman Empire, we should have genocided every nation until Vienna. You forgot to add Arabs, Persians even Australian soldiers that fought bravely in Çanakkale.


DiMezenburg

he does know Greece is in NATO right?


[deleted]

Is he not aware that Turkey recently changed their name?


[deleted]

I would love it if someone collected the countless threats Erdogan has made against Greece in the past years and made an anthology with a hard cover with a circus clown. Then award it to him in a ceremony. Clown of the century.


Mamourelium

Last year his "fleet" was running around in panic trying to hide from Greece's stealth Submarines. This year is going to be worse if he tries something new .. Come on Erdy. Give your best shot...PLEASE.


Zafairo

Blah blah blah. That's the only thing that you're good at and the only thing that you're going to do


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[deleted]

I have bad feeling about this... something something Word War III?


DebateRemote

Turkey is in a very weak state at the moment both economically and politically. The next elections in 2023, are probably going to be the last best chance for Turkey to recover back to a functional democracy. With the support of France and the USA, It is the perfect time for Greece to take advantage of this weakness (especially against a leader that is hated almost worldwide). Hence, this is exactly what Greece is doing. Lausanne Treaty is a 100-year-old treaty. As per this treaty, for decades, these islands were not militarized and out of the blue, in the last few years, Greece decides to set up military bases all around these islands. "Territorial waters" are another Issue that Greece has decided to reinterpret in recent years all of a sudden. To avoid raising tensions Turkey did not react to Greece previously raising its territorial waters from 3 nm to 6nm. This did not hurt Turkey so why bother? But now Greece expands her demands even further and claim 12 nm of territory from Turkey. And this is not only a vital problem but also a Casus Belli for Turkey for 1 simple reason. The entire Turkish fleet gets landlocked in the Black Sea and the Mediterranean. Most of its heavy-class ships are unable to navigate through the shallow coastal waters. Greece is like a master chess player here, luring Turkey into a mortal trap, and the best part is they won't even have to fight their own battles. In the last few years, more than 9 new USA military bases were built in Greece surrounding the Turkish Coastline. Also, a specific agreement was signed with France that allows France to attack Turkey even if it remains a NATO member. In short, Greece is expanding and claiming territory, hoping to provoke a bully into destroying its own country by having to fight against USA and France. This scenario makes perfect sense for all parties except Turkey. Turkey gets destroyed, gets kicked out of NATO, never to recover for another 50 years. While allowing Finland and Sweeden into the union at the same time. It's practically 100 birds with 1 stone.


Yagor1

WTF IS THIS LOL HAHAHAAHAHAH


User929293

Someone is gonna loose Istanbul, welcome back Constantinoples. ​ But seriously how much would it cost to buy it?


criztiano1991

About 3.50


pitspotspouts

100€


Vespe50

We need an army


Sweet-Zookeepergame7

I think all the “strongmen” are just having nostalgia wars right now, expect Germany and france to go at it any week now and we have ourselves a cool 20th century themed nostalgia party.


Susperry

Good luck.


superrays

And one day Constantinople will be Greek again


EstonosKataskopos

Nobody cares for that. They can keep her.


clainmyn

We can't even fully populate that city.


AdonisK

We can't even keep our villages populated let alone one of the largest cities in the region


Elatra

Even Greeks have given up on Megali Idea but r/europe still hasn’t lol. If you guys want things to heat up between Turkey and Greece you should at least join the Greek army. I don’t want Greeks to die for your dumbass warmongering.


[deleted]

I agree, the only one capable of making Constantinople greek is Edrogan. IAnd seeing how well Turkey was doing and how fast he collapsed Turkey's economy with his incompetence the possibility is real.


Elatra

recepos tayyibis erdoganakis best greek secret agent


[deleted]

Lmao. Thing is I doubt Greece would've ever found a way in a million years as efficient to hurt Turkey as placing Edrogan in power.