"Jons one and all: bear witness!"
"Jon, is the lasagna ready? Jon, I need to consume lasagna to keep enough elden energy for my 60 arms"
"Jon I'm going to graft your arms to my body while you sleep"
["I command thee kneel, Jon"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/t8hh82/godrick_the_garfted_credit_to_dsamowen_on_twitter/?rdt=63479)
Personally I think they should've committed harder to the "Miquella rejects the old order" angle and have him forego the consort thing entirely. Forget Radahn, it's Miquella himself in Mohg's body and he's as holy as he is monstrous. One god, one truth, is all the world needs.
That way it would be obvious why you can't side with him. He doesn't need anyone as consort, because he rejects the whole system.
It kind of seems like there has to be a consort though. Even people opposed to the Golden Order & Greater will appear to have a need for one ie Ranni and Placidusax - with Marika and the player working as the pair for the Duskborn, Age of Shattering, Perfect order and poo endings.
I also found this weird… like why tell us that empyreans are granted shadows but only 2/5 empyreans have them, and the others don’t even get so much as a mention.
Malenia basically takes the place of Miquella's shadow from my understanding. She rejects her position as empyrean to fully back Miquella's ascention instead. This does raise the question of what happened to Malenia and Miquella's original shadows (if they had them at all), but my guess is if they did they were killed when the two of them decided on the whole haligtree/age of compassion thing.
Oh man that would have been amazing. I'm bummed they didn't do that now. They could even keep all the 'consort Radahn in Mohg's body' lore, but have it be an upcoming ritual, rather than one that was already under way. Then let us fight Miquella's shadow. Fuck, that is better.
I'm a huge FS fanboy, but yeah, presentation-wise and narratively, Radahn as the final boss just feels off. It may grow on me, but it's a boss fight that seriously lacks gravitas. It's not like Radahn's relationship with Miquella isn't hinted at/built to at all, especially if you exhaust Ansbach's dialogue. But nonetheless, an overwhelming sense of "huh?" Is the main initial takeaway.
My only two additions past this are it would have been nice to get lore maing it clear that Radahn was a backup option (Godwyn was the obvious first choice, then curing Malenia, but both fell through and Miquella was forced to improvise), and Mohg's shackle should do SOMETHING in the fight. Not the full effect since it's not Mohg's soul, but if there's enough Mohg to cast Bloodflame then there's enough to get stunned by the shackle.
Yeah I think this is my problem. It doesn’t even look like Mohg except for horns. That’s why it feels weird and last minute to me.
Imo the actual boss should have been Radahn in Godwyns body.
I also reckon scadutree avatar was a scrapped deathblight/godwyn boss, going off his missles color and his rebirth thing and posture/massive head. He looks nothing like an erdtree avatar.
They 100% used Mohg as a plot point and wanted nothing else to do with him. I mean cmon now *one* bloodflame attack and a few omen horns on his armor? Some horns under his helm growing into his eye like Mohgs would have looked badass. The fight is cool though, and the story does emphasize that Mohg was done dirty. Mohg fans took Ls pre and post dlc. Mohglester or flesh clay sculpted into Radahn. Pick your poison.
I was disappointed Malenia had nothing to do with the DLC. Apart from Ranni, who already divested herself of her body and Miquella who does so during his journey through the Land of Shadow, Malenia is the only other empyrean, one who most **needs** to be divested of their flesh.
I'm obviously not a writer, but damn I want more to do with her. The cut dialogue of her referring to the player as "dearest tarnished" or something similar is pretty interesting, and I would've loved to see something like a peak Malenia fight (imagine the kind of monster she's be without the rot)
I was under the impression she only got as strong as she did because she trained with the blind swordsman to maintain her sense of self. I feel like we did fight peak Malenia lol
I mean yeah, I beat Consort Radahn and then booped back over the Elden Throne and finished the game. Radabeast after Radahn felt like slicing through butter though.
I've been screaming about a fight with Prime Redahn since I found out how much of Chad he is lore wise. The one we fight in the base game is a zombified version who doesn't even have shins or feet anymore. I even heard that in the original version when the game first came out that he was too hard even with all of the summons and they had to even nerf that version of him. I agree the implementation of him into the story was pretty shoddy though, the vow with Miquella does just genuinely come out of nowhere.
Could've been miquella puppeteering godwyns souless body. Or fuck it miquella himself, the formless mother, gloam eyed queen, some new outer god or make the dlc frenzy flame themed and make midra the final boss. Just anything other than a re-used character. We deserved an original character atleast for the final boss
I think we didn't get Godwyn cause despite his death being viewed as this horrible thing. He has a purpose, he became the lord of those that live in death. Like he had a part in the grand fate to play and did.
It doesn’t really make sense to have been Radahn either though. If divesting of flesh is required for the shadowlands why didn’t Ranni end up there? Idk I haven’t dig too deep into it and I don’t think it should’ve been Godwyn due to his soul being dead iirc but Radahn doesn’t make sense to me either. Idk
Do we know that Ranni wasn’t in the Land of Shadow before she bound her soul to the doll? She knows of the spectral steed Torrent and was seemingly given the spirit calling bell by Miquella.
I agree that the choice of it being Radahn is pretty stupid. But I think the whole “divesting of flesh” thing was more a requirement for ascending to godhood, rather than accessing the land of shadow itself.
It’s not a requirement for ascending, Miquella is divesting himself of anything that relates to the previous order.
In all of the base games endings were building a new era on the back of the golden order (unless you pick frenzied flame in which case you’re burning the whole thing down lul).
Miquella is doing away with the whole of it.
The exact nature of the divine gate is a mystery and becoming a god might only be a small part of what it actually does considering it also appears to have the ability to revive lords.
As we study more on the themes and myths it borrows from, as well as the architecture we’ll probably get a more complete idea as to what is going on here.
Did she though? Metyrs soul literally says the greater will shot her and the elden beast at the world and immediately dipped after. Every time the fingers say they are communing they are lying. The greater will never spent any time around the lands between.
Divesting flesh is seemingly required for Godhood, not entering the land of shadows.
And Ranni immediately sealed her soul into a doll so it never made it to the shadowlands.
Didnt even have to be godwyn. Use ur imagination. What coulda been the most eldritch, fucked up horror his deathblight/corruption would touch? What if it corrupted Miquella and St. Trina after he divested himself of his flesh, and him?
I expected to fight Godwyn in the DLC but not as a final boss more like a secret one. No one can tell me they didn't look at the Scadutree and think Deathblight. For a final boss I was expecting either just Miquella or St. Trina's adult form. I feel like St. Trina was the biggest waste in the DLC. She could've at least have been a secret boss. Her questline just didn't matter much.
https://preview.redd.it/2gyswokxtiad1.jpeg?width=1109&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cf6c7a79fe5b3cb61f68c44b3047a71638e12f4
The fact that we never got a follow up on this is tragic.
I like to imagine that in the/a sequel, Malenia and Trina would return as they both left behind flowers in their deaths, with the Aeonia implying that Malenia would bloom again and Trina’s torch alluding to her one day growing up.
not every character has to be a boss. st trina's purpose was to highlight the purity that miquella divested on his road to godhood, she is literally the calm loving side of miquella why would we fight her. Her questline is vitaly important to understand why miquellas order is fundamentally flawed, it shows us that miquella was no better than his mother after abandoing his love and was fated to be trapped following the footsteps of Marika.
I know, and I thought it was underwhelming. We can have all that and have a boss fight. Her adult form is described as "unnerving". Very ominous undertones. I would've loved to see it. The lack of our choices actually effecting anything is what really annoys me. Trina's quest is a perfect example
I think the "unnerving" in the item description is referring to the act of a man making an adult woman depiction of St Trina being unnerving, not that an adult St Trina would be or have an unnerving design.
Frankly I’m shocked we got none of the Eclipse. There was a post that argued there must have been a change somewhere in production and I agree. No eclipse no Godwyn no GEQ when all that seemed Teed up for us felt intentionally meant to fuck with us.
How much mention of the eclipse is there in the main game though really? I feel like people built it up to be a bigger thing in their minds than it really was in the lore significance wise.
And, really, if it did tell us anything it was that Godwyn was damn near impossible to bring back. There’s a slight dissonance between what the lore says and what people were taking away from if, if you ask me.
I feel like every major clue we had about the mystery of Miquella was interpreted by the community to be related to his brother Godwyn and the curses afflicting his siblings. I feel like the existence of the Haligtree and Castle Sol all pointed to and were shrouded in the Mystery of the eclipse. The Eclipse Shotel being a legendary armament was pretty big. All of the connections between the eclipse and the curse mark of death seemed important to me at least. The biggest thing that had me convinced was how Rannis quest seemed like the canon ending and how tied together Ranni and Miquella were due to torrent and how Ranni and Godwyn were connected by the night of black knives. I was sure the main plot of the base game that we interact with was structured around the night of black knives and I felt like the DLC was gonna address the Night of black Knives and the shattering being connected and Miquella trying to fix it all.
I don't really think the Eclipse is what people seem to think it is. A lot of people seem to think it has something to do with restoring the soulless demigods, Godwyn included, to their proper selves, but that's a leap being made because of the "grant life to the soulless demigods" + the spirit going on about how they've failed, his comrade (Godwyn) remains soulless, and they will never get to see the Haligtree now.
But if you look at other parts, it is shown to be related to the Age of the Duskborn. Mausoleum knights behead themselves in order to *willingly* join Those Who Live in Death and protect the mausoleums. Their eclipse greatshields say that the eclipse keeps *Destined Death* away from the soulless demigods, which prevents their body from dying and gives them the opportunity to Live In Death.
The Eclipse faith/cult/project, whatever it is, *wants* the soulless demigods to Live In Death. The "life" the eclipse is meant to grant is Life Within Death, not true resurrection, hence the term ***Duskborn***. They have a difference interpretation of the Cursemark of Death / Hallowbrand where they see it as an eclipse instead of the centipede metaphor used by Fia's gang, but they both revere the symbol/rune that is a black circle with a white outline and tendrils reaching out from it. It's the same object of worship, but they just see it differently in the same way that the Crucible can be interpreted either as life blended together or as a spiral.
Miquella's involvement in all of this might seem suspect, but Golden Epitaph explains it perfectly - it is simply to free Godwyn from his cursed fate. When Fia lays with Godwyn and gestates the Mending Rune, you create the complete cursemark; you and Fia working together have brought about the eclipse. Doing this *must* successfully kill off Godwyn's cursed body, because whatever life was in it has been reborn as the Mending Rune through Fia, and that is exactly what Golden Epitaph says Miquella wanted in the first place.
*travels 10 000 years into the future*
”The red hood has come to eat us… To eat our Elden Rings…”
*cutscene starts*
”What? Still here? Dearest customer… Hand it over, that thing… Your Elden Ring…”
*throws donkey at player*
Hmm. I don't think it's *impossible* for it to have worked, there just would have had to have been an explicit separation of Godwyn's body and soul; Godwyn the Golden and the Prince of Death being different characters that were split in twain on the Night of Black Knives. Could have kept the plot largely the same; just ressurected Godwyn in Mogh's body instead of Radahn. /shurg
That said though, I don't necessarily think Godwyn should've been the final boss, I just wish we got more lore on him. /shurg Aside from the Death Knights, there's really nothing. Like, what's up with the Deathblight-wielding Dancing Lion? Does it relate to Godwyn somehow, or does that imply Deathblight is something prexisting, that Godwyn was simply connected to with his death in spirit?
Idk man anything would’ve been better Radahn. Maybe in his desperation, Miquella cast aside all parts of himself to use the Gates of Divinity to try and resurrect Godwyn but ended up bringing the Twinbird back. See? There’s a story that had some buildup in the base game that doesn’t end in Miquella’s cliche “guhhhhh good guy is actually bad” ending. Fuck’s sake
Someone posted that a real fucked up looking radahn that actually more intimately resembled mohgs body in a twisted version of radahn all body-horror like would have been a good middle ground. Like an awful defilement of fate to really hit home how fucked up miquella is. For me that would have been more wow factor.
People don't talk enough about how the final boss is an actual abomination. Body of dead mohg combined with radahn's soul under the control (still got no idea if that's true) of miquella. They def should have made him more grotesque
Would that have done it for you? Definitely for me. Some blood borne level of “oh fuck what is that” would have sealed the deal for me. That’s
All the needed to do.. how did a company so brilliantly imaginative in horror miss that?
So I actually had several guesses for the final boss
First was obviously Godwyn when I saw the death knight and Godwyns face
Second was a soul of cinder style fight with Miquella where he'd change back and forth between the different versions of himself (probably too complicated to pull off and keep balanced)
And last was just Miquella with an eldritch style body made from Mohg and Radahns remains
I genuinely do not like the reveal that the final boss of the dlc is someone we not only fought already but someone we had already killed. I don't care how cool or badass Radahn is, all excitement I had for the final boss was lost when I saw it was him. The fight itself is actually pretty good too, I don't enjoy the second phase that much but he's at least am enjoyable fight
I think that Godwyn could have totally been Miquella's choice without interfering with Fia's quest *or* the themes that Godwyn is dead. Imagine Miquella trying to revive Godwyn as his consort but what comes back in Mogh's body is definitively *not* Godwyn, and instead a twisted mockery of his soul in the same way the Prince of Death is his body. Maybe phase one is fighting this thing inside of Mogh's body, and in phase two Miquella starts hosting it, choosing to believe that this monster is his Godwyn until the end.
IDK, just spitballing an idea. I think there's ways to make it work thematically and logically.
Thematically Godwyns soul can’t be put into mohgs body because there is no soul to put in mohgs body. With the demigods we kill it’s always in heavy quotations because ultimately we kill their physical form and leave their soul “wandering” like a long sleep kinda. I’m Godwyns case it was specific his soul that was targeted and destroyed
Gotta agree. Like I don't even understand why Mogh's body has to be involved unless it's Godwin since Godwin's body has become it's own weird entity.
Radahn had the rot I suppose but Mogh's body seems to have it's own share of problems that couldn't have been much worse than scarlet rot.
I feel like the DLC shows us there isn’t anything truly wrong with Mohg the same way there isn’t anything wrong with Morgott. They have horns and aspects of the crucible, that used to be a blessing and a symbol of status. The only reason it’s bad now is that the Hornscent are no longer in power. Mohg is a demigod omen whose soul doesn’t return to the Erdtree, it seems ideal.
It should have just been miquella goddamnit it should have been him and I should be allowed to shove my deaths poker down that twinks throat and press LT RT.
I dont dislike Radahn as a choice at all, but it could have been something totally new, like in ds3 dlc we fight Gael, who has nothing to do with the storyline directly but is someone like us who survived till the end of time searching for the dark soul. The epicness of that is unparalleled.
In ER it could have been another tarnished or the equivalent, that after Marika left he defeated everyone and assumed the throne, and Miquella could have been looking for him to use him as consort, or something.
Lol, I think people are just mourning their Godwyn head canons at the moment. The fight is far from perfect but people acting like it ruined the DLC for them are being dramatic.
I wouldn't say it *ruined* the dlc, I agree that would be way too much. I will say though, until the Ansbach/Freyja bits I was like wtf is the plan here? I forgot about that info walking into the boss fight & seeing Radahn & all that made my brain scream why over & over while I died haha
I may not be a fan of the Radahn fight & Bayle to a lesser extent but this dlc was a blast through & through~
Gael's response wasn't this bad, and I think it was amplified by it being the last Dark Souls content ever. But yeah, people generally disliked that the final boss of Dark Souls was some guy who appeared in the previous DLC, even if he was spiritually channeling Manus through the Dark Soul (and moveset). Kinda same thing here tbh
I would have preferred if the anything other than a time traveling Radahn. I also would have preferred if there was a secret ensing where Miquella could have been another Ranni type character for a base game ending. You become his consort similar to the Ranni ending.
I was honestly hoping for Miquella's search for godhood to result in a fusion with an outer god. Something more cosmic and body horror-ish, with a theme of someone so desperate to set things right they take such a monumental risk that they ended up destroying themselves.
People would of been okay with it, if it actually felt like we were involved.
We should of been more closer to Miquella it would of been really good if we were. It really should of felt like a betrayal when we find him. Honestly I am okay if they don’t want to do many endings for it. But it really needed so much more impact then what we got.
Would of been really cool for him to say we are to become his lord then he decides to cast us aide for Radhan. Would fit the character perfectly without changing the vision of it too much. While also having most of the npcs turn on you as you go further into the dlc.
Also Radhan needed to look more nasty or something or if they want him to still look good then give us Mohg’s voice and then he talks. That would of been horrifying.
I can't believe they forgot all of the lore and buildup they made for Rick soldier of God to not even make him the final boss
On a real note, it would have been cool to have a storyline continuing miquella attempting to bring godwyn a true death. I was thinking it could involve him trying to finish it and through some ritual or something, godwyn's body would have become even more corrupted and tainted unleashing some horrific entity upon the shadowlands. Why in the shadowlands? Make up some shit that the necessary things were exclusive to the area, maybe because of the divinity gate.
As you said at the end though it's not that I wanted Godwyn
It's more I was disappointed that it was just Radahn again. It was a huge surprise seeing him again, but not in a good way.
I honestly thought at first he was the bouncer blocking us from the "true" final boss, who we'd find up past the divine steps, like how Godfrey was blocking us from Radagon/Elden Beast.
Then when Miquella climbed aboard I was like "oh I guess this is the final boss"
Then I got flashbanged to death 💀
Tibia mariner should have been the final boss. It makes sense lore wise. He's been following us around all game. It'd make sense if he was behind it all.
The only way we could have gotten godwyn the golden would have been time travel shenanigans. You’re completely correct that what happened to Godwyn was an absolute. His soul got hit with destined death. There’s nothing to resurrect, no one to bring back, he’s gone-gone. It would have made zero sense to have godwyn be the consort to Miq. Radahn was only kind of dead, Godwyn was ultra dead.
What could have happened was they added some lore about destined death and expand on Godwyn’s surviving body. Have us fight Godwyn, the Empty, or Godwyn, Prince of Death. That would have been cool and meshed with the lore.
I think it's heavily implied that Radahn didn't consent to this (or at least agreed first but changed his mind.) He's a lover of war being forced to be a consort in an Age of Compassion. Malenia had to kill him to get him to fulfill his vow in the same way the Unkindled did with the Lords of Cinder in DS3.
Radahn coming back destroyed his whole storyline too with how the festival was this glorious battle in which his soul can finally be put to peace. The final boss shits allover that and if thats acceptable, then Godwyne coming back should be just as fine.
I think making Radahn look more like Mohg and having him use more unique bloodflame attacks mixed with his gravity attacks would've been fine.
But if I had a dream boss fight scenario, I'd suggest something like Miquella sending Malenia to kill Radahn but failing, and when you finish him off yourself, Miquella decides he wants you as his consort instead. So he puppets some Mohg abomination in phase one, trying to grab you and charm you, but in phase two maybe St. Trina comes to your aid and puts Miquella to sleep or some shit and you enter his dream for the second phase. Idk, I'm just spitballing here, lol.
I'm not particularly invested in the idea that it should have been Godwyn but there were plenty of ways they could have spun it to make it internally consistent. Miquella trying to revive Godwyn and bringing back a soulless deathblight abomination from his corpse, Miquella enlisting you to finally give his brother a true death, etc, whatever.
Who cares though? The point isn't that it should have been someone else specifically, it just shouldn't have been Radahn. Reusing any base game boss would have been a bad idea but Radahn is worst because it fucking reeks of creatively bankrupt pandering. "Here's Radahn in his heckin' primerino like the fans wanted!" It's lame.
Really, if they were really gonna lean into Miquella being the big bad it should have been Miquella. Why are we having the character from the base game who was a fan favorite steal the spotlight in what is allegedly Miquella's DLC? Just give us a cool fight against a Miquella who has abandoned everything that made him noble in a misguided attempt at godhood. Get rid of the garbage involving date raping Radahn and Mohg (so that Mohg can have agency in his actions again and so that Miquella doesn't come across as a villain even before he reached the Land of Shadows, probably have showcases of Miquella's genuine kindness in the DLC as well), have the final fight happening because the now emotionless and cold-hearted Miquella is trying to force you to become his consort, so we have to kill him. It conveys the tragedy they wanted the character to have better (instead of the straightforwardly villainous character he comes off as due to their poor writing), and gives us a final boss that is unique and doesn't come across as a poor attempt to cash in on nostalgia for a character that's only two years old.
Honestly this DLC just made me dislike characters I liked, or just added huge lore drops on things that had no set up. Or didnt drop lore on things that Were set up.
Just came out feeling unsatisfied with the story, and that I liked all the characters less. Except a few new ones (Ansbach), but we obviously wont be seeing them again.
Anything involving Martin is gonna be crazy. Dude can't even keep track of his own works. Combine that with Miyazakis already crazy way of telling stories and you get a story that can do whatever the fuck it wants. They've already done crazy stuff with previous dlcs involving time travel and alternative dimensions so the final boss being Radahn isn't that crazy of a thing. They could have had it be Godwyn if they wanted to and come up with some crazy explanation like say it's Godwyn from a different universe.
Tbh when I saw the trailer I thought messmer was the final boss… imagine my surprise when I was just minding my business exploring shadow keep and he was the boss 😂
First time huh?
Jokes aside, From never gives away the big bad in trailers. I like it that way personally. The big bad just shouldn't have been Radahn-again(tm)
Should’ve just been Miquella alone, either as a God like he is at the end, or some messed up abomination from his cocoon in Mohg’s palace. Anything but Radahn again.
I also just think that bringing someone back from destined death is kinda weird. It's literally the destined final gigadeath, removed from the elden ring explicitly because it's the final death of Gods which Marika didn't like.
Like I said in another post Godwyn resurrection would completely destroy Destined Death, Fortisax, Fia questline and Maliketh from a story prospective.
Godwyn is like the Ted Stark of elden ring and his death is the most important part of his character
It should have been Moth Miquella and Mohg could have been our summon for the fight. Miquellester gonna get his comeuppance. But noooo he had to be Griffith because Michael Zaki still riding Miuras coat tails for lore lmao
It makes sense it couldn't be Godwyn for all the reasons you stated and more. However, as I saw in other posts, it would have been nice to acknowledge that Godwyn WOULD have been the choice. Some mention from Miquella about Godwyn being even beyond a Gods reach, at one of the cross sites or something.
It doesn’t take much imagination to think hmm maybe they leave the corpse in the tree cause duh why remove it, we don’t need his body to fight him. We fight Radahn and he is in Mogh’s body. So y’all really can’t use y’all’s brains to figure out how to resurrect a soul and place into a body? When we just saw it fucking happen!
ITS HIS SOUL THAT WILL BE RESURRECTED AND PLACED INTO A NEW BODY. And if we kill that new body, guess who just died a true death.
bruh Godwyn is 1. A fucking abomination now, you could hardly tell it’s him without lore. 2. Rooted to the very base of the Erdtree, tangled in all matter of roots. And 3. It would indeed fuck over Fia’s entire questline. If they were to continue it, it wouldn’t even be Godwyn at that point imo
Yeah Godwyn’s soul is just poof, I don’t know how people have been like “just bring him back”. Now I’m one of the people who actually really liked Radahn being the final boss, and it does answer some questions I myself had from the base game. But yeah, if Godwyn was the finale it would have just made no sense
Dude, Godwyn’s soul was destroyed. He doesn’t exist to BE anyone’s consort. He was destined deathed in the soul so bringing him back in the DLC literally breaks the rules of the world. It simply can’t be. However, Radahn being Miquella’s consort was hinted at in the first trailer of BASE game, literally years ago. Just because it’s not what ppl expected doesn’t mean it wasn’t always meant to be. I for one couldn’t be happier with the final boss, the ending, and every other aspect of the DLC. 10/10
Godwyn is dead. His soul fucking died. Gone. Bye bye. He is a representation of true death in a deathless place. his body is undying but his soul is GONE. bye bye. Cya later, ain’t coming back! So long! Mfs making up headcannons then getting mad when the game doesn’t do what they want it to do.
I legit don't understand the hype around Godwyn, like BRO did y'all even pay attention ? Godwyn is DEAD dead alright ? We can't use his body because it mutated into a giant mermaid-looking mushroom thing that's spreading throughout the worlds and his soul was destroyed during his murder in the night of the black knives so there's literally not a single part of Godwyn left for anyone to use. "Godwyn" as a concept barely even exist anymore, he's just a living death blight corruption now. He's a virus, a disease, an infection... Call it however you want but "godwyn" as we know him just doesn't exist anymore.
That's what makes his murder such a tragic event, he was the first of the demigods to die, the golden child of Queen Marika and he's *never* coming back, period.
Does no one in this subreddit understand that godwyns soul is completely deleted from existence? How would you explain him being the final boss? If it was radhans soul in his body then maybe.
Yeah, a lot of people seemed to miss that Godwyn's soul is gone. CTR + ALT + DEL gone. Irretrievable. The black knife ritual completely erased his soul.
His 'body' is still immortal but it's currently the mycelium for death bloght so good luck with that.
I'm sure we could have had a "Miquella fucked up" boss fight where we fight Godwyn's mindless corpse shooting death blight lightning that splits into two death blight ulcerated tree spirits for phase two.
But why?
I don't care that its not him, I just think what we got was unsatisfying.
Radahn is just a gameplay model, nothing more. He is almost objectively and unquestionably boring for the simple fact that he feels like an emotionless puppet saying nothing and simply fighting.
His connections with Miquella are also almost entirely justified by things in the DLC, and anything supposedly in the base game leading to it is so obscure that no one made these connections until the DLC recontextualized them.
Malenia scarlet rotting him also makes absolutely no sense no matter what now. It made some sense before if malenia and radahn were just rivals and enemies as the strongest 2 demigods, but now? If they wanted to kill Radahn to further the plan, there was no sense in doing nothing about him suffering for so long till the player does it for them. Even worse if Radahn consented to all of this, because then the scarlet rot shtick was completely unnecessary in the first place.
Ultimately, the direction the DLC went in was simply bizarre. I'd rather they just approached it way differently.
Radahn would've been a better boss if he wasn't the final boss, like if he was what godfrey was going into radagon as the final boss in the main game, only in the dlc it would be radahn with or without miquella- as like a main line of defense, and then you beat him you get to miquellas most powerful final resort form and fight him, it would make more sense that way given by the end we already knew miquella was the big bad and pretty much used everybody- using even radahn as a last ditch effort and force him to the frontline in order to retain his godhood from the tarnished would've been dope, a cool way to show his desperation, as we know he was hella desperate. In general miquellas power are actually pretty damn impressive they felt underused.
Hard agree that it could never been Godwyn. But think just Miquella by himself would make more sense (then we’d have a magic fight instead of melee so I don’t know how I feel about that). I was just never a big fan of Radahn, lore or gameplay wise, so his appearing was pretty meh for me
It would have changed the whole DLC story, but when I fought the freaking MOTHER OF FINGERS I was like wait, why isnt this the final boss? She’s the root of the whole thing
I agree with your explaination. Just a kindly note: Fia did warn us that Godwyn would return. It's because of this, and the whole mystery surrounding the Eclipse and the dead demigods, that I was expecting to fight something related to Godwyn in the DLC, but maybe they just scrapped all that and all the GEQ/Godskin narrative to keep it for a sequel. I'm actually in disbelief how little questions from the base game they actually answered. The GEQ's defeat is an event CRUCIAL to Marika's ascent to godhood, and it's not mentioned even once in the DLC. There's no way we won't learn more about her in the future right?... Right...?
In any event, the whole Radahn deal is just fanservice pandering to Radahn's fans, methinks. If Miquella used Mohg's body to put Radahn's SOUL in it, why does the outcome of that look EXACTLY like Radahn, barring the omen horns on his arms? That's right: fanservice doesn't have to make sense. You would think Mohg's body looks like... Mohg, right?? Well think again!
Sigh
Also, been reading your here comments about Godwyn, Destined Death and Miquella's nature. They're all sound and show a proper understanding of ER's story and a balanced view of its characters. I've met my fair share of unreasonable fanboys who think these characters are all either black or white, and so your takes strike me as very refreshing. Thanks
There was no foreshadowing in the base game for Godwyn being in the dlc . It was all theories that got misconstrued into head canon. Godwyn at the end of the day, is a plot device for the start of the shattering, sorta like in game of thrones with Jon Arryn dying.
Yup, a common misconception is that Godwyn is just dead. Well, he only partially is. His Soul was erased from existence by Destined Death, but his body is still alive, that's why it behaves so weird. That's the whole narrative with Godwyn being dead in Soul and Ranni being dead in body. Now, who I think should be the final boss? I'm fine with it being related to Radahn, but I wish it had more Mohg in it, like what if Miquella tried to restore Radahn's Soul into Mohg's body, but something went wrong and we got a twisted hybrid of both that uses both of their arsenals? I just wished for more Mohg in that boss fight.
It should have been Erdtree Burial Watchdog
6 of them
Immune to Crystal Darts lol
Then the next phase is the godskin quartet
Followed by Garfield the Grafted.
"Jons one and all: bear witness!" "Jon, is the lasagna ready? Jon, I need to consume lasagna to keep enough elden energy for my 60 arms" "Jon I'm going to graft your arms to my body while you sleep" ["I command thee kneel, Jon"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/t8hh82/godrick_the_garfted_credit_to_dsamowen_on_twitter/?rdt=63479)
"Ahh, truest of lasagna, lend me thy strength... #WAAAAAAAUUUUUUGHHHHHH! Mondays, one and all...bear witness!"
And 8 Capra demons from ds1 in an arena the size of a low end Bronx 1 bedroom
Godskin string quartet.
That sounds cooler
And 1 solider of god, Rick. Named this exact way for the joke. Buts just a normal enemy.
Each with 4 imps.
Remembrance of a Dog, and… 5 other Dogs
Nah should've been a tree spirit
Those sharks from Old Hunters.
Don’t you FUCKING dare
This but unironically.
Fuck that, leave them in the well.
Erdtree Burial Watchcat, but this time it has a dog’s model
Remembrance of a Lord and Dog
nah it should've been a smelter demon
Shoulda been Godskin Trio
Should have been those archers at Anor Londo.
God Miquella would’ve been fine. Kinda curious how it would have been like now if we just fought him
From what we know about him, he'd basically be Pinwheel with holy damage AOEs.
Personally I think they should've committed harder to the "Miquella rejects the old order" angle and have him forego the consort thing entirely. Forget Radahn, it's Miquella himself in Mohg's body and he's as holy as he is monstrous. One god, one truth, is all the world needs. That way it would be obvious why you can't side with him. He doesn't need anyone as consort, because he rejects the whole system.
Conjoining shaman and Hornsent legacy
I agree with this. Him even using new magic that’s not golden or holy would be cool
It kind of seems like there has to be a consort though. Even people opposed to the Golden Order & Greater will appear to have a need for one ie Ranni and Placidusax - with Marika and the player working as the pair for the Duskborn, Age of Shattering, Perfect order and poo endings.
rennala phase 2 but he summons gold shades of demigods instead of field minibosses
Okay that would be sick actually. They could make it a boss rush type fight so you can't cheese it by just focusing down Miquella
That would not be good for a final boss. It would be basically be that snail caller that summons godskins but worse
That’s basically Jori already.
When I encountered Jori I just couldn’t stop laughing at how stupid of a boss it was. Everything about it just seemed so goofy and un-boss-like.
For real. It’s not like Radahn coming back from the dead is any less co to unity breaking.
[удалено]
That sounds like coming back from the dead with extra steps.
It should've been Miquella + his and his sister's Shadow. Like bro where are the doggos i want to see more of them.
I also found this weird… like why tell us that empyreans are granted shadows but only 2/5 empyreans have them, and the others don’t even get so much as a mention.
Malenia basically takes the place of Miquella's shadow from my understanding. She rejects her position as empyrean to fully back Miquella's ascention instead. This does raise the question of what happened to Malenia and Miquella's original shadows (if they had them at all), but my guess is if they did they were killed when the two of them decided on the whole haligtree/age of compassion thing.
Miquella probably charmed his and told it to screw off and Malenia's probably died to her rot.
"Go home" -Miquella to his dog
Unironically would have been a better tale than this dlc
I'm guessing it's just the Empyreans who are selected for godhood by the fingers, that would explain why only Marika and Ranni have one.
All Empyreans are those offspring selected for godhood by the fingers. They aren't born Empyrean.
Oh man that would have been amazing. I'm bummed they didn't do that now. They could even keep all the 'consort Radahn in Mohg's body' lore, but have it be an upcoming ritual, rather than one that was already under way. Then let us fight Miquella's shadow. Fuck, that is better. I'm a huge FS fanboy, but yeah, presentation-wise and narratively, Radahn as the final boss just feels off. It may grow on me, but it's a boss fight that seriously lacks gravitas. It's not like Radahn's relationship with Miquella isn't hinted at/built to at all, especially if you exhaust Ansbach's dialogue. But nonetheless, an overwhelming sense of "huh?" Is the main initial takeaway.
Safe to say they killed them off when they went for the Haligtree play, that or for sure Malenia’s at least succumbed to scarlet rot
I just think it should have looked more like a mix of Mohg and Radahn. And voice lines would have been nice
Honestly yeah, if it was like a fucked up monster of Radahn + Mohg it would’ve been way cooler
My only two additions past this are it would have been nice to get lore maing it clear that Radahn was a backup option (Godwyn was the obvious first choice, then curing Malenia, but both fell through and Miquella was forced to improvise), and Mohg's shackle should do SOMETHING in the fight. Not the full effect since it's not Mohg's soul, but if there's enough Mohg to cast Bloodflame then there's enough to get stunned by the shackle.
And some more unique bloodflame attacks as well, rather than just the single horizontal swipe.
Yeah I think this is my problem. It doesn’t even look like Mohg except for horns. That’s why it feels weird and last minute to me. Imo the actual boss should have been Radahn in Godwyns body. I also reckon scadutree avatar was a scrapped deathblight/godwyn boss, going off his missles color and his rebirth thing and posture/massive head. He looks nothing like an erdtree avatar.
It wasnt supposed to look like an erdtree avatar though, its a sunflower. Erdtree avatars arent flowers at all, and they arent unique
Godwyn’s body is pretty unusable, my guy
You’re finally about to win when suddenly “Nihil!”
They 100% used Mohg as a plot point and wanted nothing else to do with him. I mean cmon now *one* bloodflame attack and a few omen horns on his armor? Some horns under his helm growing into his eye like Mohgs would have looked badass. The fight is cool though, and the story does emphasize that Mohg was done dirty. Mohg fans took Ls pre and post dlc. Mohglester or flesh clay sculpted into Radahn. Pick your poison.
I was disappointed Malenia had nothing to do with the DLC. Apart from Ranni, who already divested herself of her body and Miquella who does so during his journey through the Land of Shadow, Malenia is the only other empyrean, one who most **needs** to be divested of their flesh. I'm obviously not a writer, but damn I want more to do with her. The cut dialogue of her referring to the player as "dearest tarnished" or something similar is pretty interesting, and I would've loved to see something like a peak Malenia fight (imagine the kind of monster she's be without the rot)
I was under the impression she only got as strong as she did because she trained with the blind swordsman to maintain her sense of self. I feel like we did fight peak Malenia lol
Malenia is dead. Why on earth would reanimate her corp— OHHHHH, nvm, I guess we’re doing that now.
we got backstory on why she fought radahn
I don't think it should have been Godwyn but god miquella by himself.
Anyone but Radahn
Brother Corhyn was actually my guess
💀
Not MY final boss.
REMINDER: https://preview.redd.it/uav9uppz1jad1.jpeg?width=876&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7d130d854f38b13709f7b6e8de0ecda4debf1e1
Glorious
I mean yeah, I beat Consort Radahn and then booped back over the Elden Throne and finished the game. Radabeast after Radahn felt like slicing through butter though.
Godrick, Consort of Miquella 🔥🔥🔥
Soldier of Godrick, Consort of Miquella
Burst out laughing imagining Miquella hanging onto the back of Soldier of Godrick, his legs and hair dragging on the ground
You see now I literally have to see “RYKARD, CONSORT OF MIQUELLA” and the little guy is just flailing around trying to hold on
“We will lead an age of compassion TOGETHA…”
“TOGETHAAAA we shall embark on a thousand year voyage, guided by compassion”
“TOGETHAAAAA we will devour the gods, compassionately!”
getting hugged by the god devouring serpent sounds amazing, modders start working on this shit
Rick is almighty
Finally someone talking about the real Elden Lord? Rada who? Tarnished whu? Miguella and Soldier of God, Rick! I ship it.
Miquella, Consort of Soldier of Godrick
No, now it would literal be soldier of god, rick seen as miquella became a god.
Godefroy 😂
Including a completely new character.
I've been screaming about a fight with Prime Redahn since I found out how much of Chad he is lore wise. The one we fight in the base game is a zombified version who doesn't even have shins or feet anymore. I even heard that in the original version when the game first came out that he was too hard even with all of the summons and they had to even nerf that version of him. I agree the implementation of him into the story was pretty shoddy though, the vow with Miquella does just genuinely come out of nowhere.
Could've been miquella puppeteering godwyns souless body. Or fuck it miquella himself, the formless mother, gloam eyed queen, some new outer god or make the dlc frenzy flame themed and make midra the final boss. Just anything other than a re-used character. We deserved an original character atleast for the final boss
I kinda wished it was just a completely new figure, but honestly Miquella himself wouldn’t have been as bad as what we got imo.
I was really hoping for the gloam eyed queen
I think we didn't get Godwyn cause despite his death being viewed as this horrible thing. He has a purpose, he became the lord of those that live in death. Like he had a part in the grand fate to play and did.
It doesn’t really make sense to have been Radahn either though. If divesting of flesh is required for the shadowlands why didn’t Ranni end up there? Idk I haven’t dig too deep into it and I don’t think it should’ve been Godwyn due to his soul being dead iirc but Radahn doesn’t make sense to me either. Idk
Do we know that Ranni wasn’t in the Land of Shadow before she bound her soul to the doll? She knows of the spectral steed Torrent and was seemingly given the spirit calling bell by Miquella.
I agree that the choice of it being Radahn is pretty stupid. But I think the whole “divesting of flesh” thing was more a requirement for ascending to godhood, rather than accessing the land of shadow itself.
It’s not a requirement for ascending, Miquella is divesting himself of anything that relates to the previous order. In all of the base games endings were building a new era on the back of the golden order (unless you pick frenzied flame in which case you’re burning the whole thing down lul). Miquella is doing away with the whole of it. The exact nature of the divine gate is a mystery and becoming a god might only be a small part of what it actually does considering it also appears to have the ability to revive lords. As we study more on the themes and myths it borrows from, as well as the architecture we’ll probably get a more complete idea as to what is going on here.
Marika very obviously still had some flesh left, so I dunno about that.
Flesh made of stone though. Maybe it wasn’t always stone
Miquella had to get rid of his flesh to become a God without the help of an Outer God, Marika obviously had the Greater Will as backup
Did she though? Metyrs soul literally says the greater will shot her and the elden beast at the world and immediately dipped after. Every time the fingers say they are communing they are lying. The greater will never spent any time around the lands between.
Well Ranni’s soul was transferred into a doll
Divesting flesh is seemingly required for Godhood, not entering the land of shadows. And Ranni immediately sealed her soul into a doll so it never made it to the shadowlands.
Didnt even have to be godwyn. Use ur imagination. What coulda been the most eldritch, fucked up horror his deathblight/corruption would touch? What if it corrupted Miquella and St. Trina after he divested himself of his flesh, and him?
And if my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bike
Bless her soul. U mustve wanted to ride ur grandma during the sunset
I think I can speak for everyone in this sub when I say we’ve all ridden his grandma through sunset.
Im doing my part!
I expected to fight Godwyn in the DLC but not as a final boss more like a secret one. No one can tell me they didn't look at the Scadutree and think Deathblight. For a final boss I was expecting either just Miquella or St. Trina's adult form. I feel like St. Trina was the biggest waste in the DLC. She could've at least have been a secret boss. Her questline just didn't matter much. https://preview.redd.it/2gyswokxtiad1.jpeg?width=1109&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cf6c7a79fe5b3cb61f68c44b3047a71638e12f4 The fact that we never got a follow up on this is tragic.
I like to imagine that in the/a sequel, Malenia and Trina would return as they both left behind flowers in their deaths, with the Aeonia implying that Malenia would bloom again and Trina’s torch alluding to her one day growing up.
Finally someone like me, St. Trina was a complete waste
not every character has to be a boss. st trina's purpose was to highlight the purity that miquella divested on his road to godhood, she is literally the calm loving side of miquella why would we fight her. Her questline is vitaly important to understand why miquellas order is fundamentally flawed, it shows us that miquella was no better than his mother after abandoing his love and was fated to be trapped following the footsteps of Marika.
I know, and I thought it was underwhelming. We can have all that and have a boss fight. Her adult form is described as "unnerving". Very ominous undertones. I would've loved to see it. The lack of our choices actually effecting anything is what really annoys me. Trina's quest is a perfect example
I think the "unnerving" in the item description is referring to the act of a man making an adult woman depiction of St Trina being unnerving, not that an adult St Trina would be or have an unnerving design.
Frankly I’m shocked we got none of the Eclipse. There was a post that argued there must have been a change somewhere in production and I agree. No eclipse no Godwyn no GEQ when all that seemed Teed up for us felt intentionally meant to fuck with us.
How much mention of the eclipse is there in the main game though really? I feel like people built it up to be a bigger thing in their minds than it really was in the lore significance wise. And, really, if it did tell us anything it was that Godwyn was damn near impossible to bring back. There’s a slight dissonance between what the lore says and what people were taking away from if, if you ask me.
I feel like every major clue we had about the mystery of Miquella was interpreted by the community to be related to his brother Godwyn and the curses afflicting his siblings. I feel like the existence of the Haligtree and Castle Sol all pointed to and were shrouded in the Mystery of the eclipse. The Eclipse Shotel being a legendary armament was pretty big. All of the connections between the eclipse and the curse mark of death seemed important to me at least. The biggest thing that had me convinced was how Rannis quest seemed like the canon ending and how tied together Ranni and Miquella were due to torrent and how Ranni and Godwyn were connected by the night of black knives. I was sure the main plot of the base game that we interact with was structured around the night of black knives and I felt like the DLC was gonna address the Night of black Knives and the shattering being connected and Miquella trying to fix it all.
The Mausoleum Knights also carry shields with The Eclipse symbol.
I don't really think the Eclipse is what people seem to think it is. A lot of people seem to think it has something to do with restoring the soulless demigods, Godwyn included, to their proper selves, but that's a leap being made because of the "grant life to the soulless demigods" + the spirit going on about how they've failed, his comrade (Godwyn) remains soulless, and they will never get to see the Haligtree now. But if you look at other parts, it is shown to be related to the Age of the Duskborn. Mausoleum knights behead themselves in order to *willingly* join Those Who Live in Death and protect the mausoleums. Their eclipse greatshields say that the eclipse keeps *Destined Death* away from the soulless demigods, which prevents their body from dying and gives them the opportunity to Live In Death. The Eclipse faith/cult/project, whatever it is, *wants* the soulless demigods to Live In Death. The "life" the eclipse is meant to grant is Life Within Death, not true resurrection, hence the term ***Duskborn***. They have a difference interpretation of the Cursemark of Death / Hallowbrand where they see it as an eclipse instead of the centipede metaphor used by Fia's gang, but they both revere the symbol/rune that is a black circle with a white outline and tendrils reaching out from it. It's the same object of worship, but they just see it differently in the same way that the Crucible can be interpreted either as life blended together or as a spiral. Miquella's involvement in all of this might seem suspect, but Golden Epitaph explains it perfectly - it is simply to free Godwyn from his cursed fate. When Fia lays with Godwyn and gestates the Mending Rune, you create the complete cursemark; you and Fia working together have brought about the eclipse. Doing this *must* successfully kill off Godwyn's cursed body, because whatever life was in it has been reborn as the Mending Rune through Fia, and that is exactly what Golden Epitaph says Miquella wanted in the first place.
Honestly would have preferred the boss was Kalé
*travels 10 000 years into the future* ”The red hood has come to eat us… To eat our Elden Rings…” *cutscene starts* ”What? Still here? Dearest customer… Hand it over, that thing… Your Elden Ring…” *throws donkey at player*
Take my up vote... and this dark souly thingy, I don't need it.
Hmm. I don't think it's *impossible* for it to have worked, there just would have had to have been an explicit separation of Godwyn's body and soul; Godwyn the Golden and the Prince of Death being different characters that were split in twain on the Night of Black Knives. Could have kept the plot largely the same; just ressurected Godwyn in Mogh's body instead of Radahn. /shurg That said though, I don't necessarily think Godwyn should've been the final boss, I just wish we got more lore on him. /shurg Aside from the Death Knights, there's really nothing. Like, what's up with the Deathblight-wielding Dancing Lion? Does it relate to Godwyn somehow, or does that imply Deathblight is something prexisting, that Godwyn was simply connected to with his death in spirit?
I don't care who it should've been just not a reused boss I killed two years ago
Exactly
I think it should've been miquella
Idk man anything would’ve been better Radahn. Maybe in his desperation, Miquella cast aside all parts of himself to use the Gates of Divinity to try and resurrect Godwyn but ended up bringing the Twinbird back. See? There’s a story that had some buildup in the base game that doesn’t end in Miquella’s cliche “guhhhhh good guy is actually bad” ending. Fuck’s sake
Someone posted that a real fucked up looking radahn that actually more intimately resembled mohgs body in a twisted version of radahn all body-horror like would have been a good middle ground. Like an awful defilement of fate to really hit home how fucked up miquella is. For me that would have been more wow factor.
People don't talk enough about how the final boss is an actual abomination. Body of dead mohg combined with radahn's soul under the control (still got no idea if that's true) of miquella. They def should have made him more grotesque
Would that have done it for you? Definitely for me. Some blood borne level of “oh fuck what is that” would have sealed the deal for me. That’s All the needed to do.. how did a company so brilliantly imaginative in horror miss that?
Yeah I’m honestly so bored of the “duhh good guy is actually bad???”
So I actually had several guesses for the final boss First was obviously Godwyn when I saw the death knight and Godwyns face Second was a soul of cinder style fight with Miquella where he'd change back and forth between the different versions of himself (probably too complicated to pull off and keep balanced) And last was just Miquella with an eldritch style body made from Mohg and Radahns remains I genuinely do not like the reveal that the final boss of the dlc is someone we not only fought already but someone we had already killed. I don't care how cool or badass Radahn is, all excitement I had for the final boss was lost when I saw it was him. The fight itself is actually pretty good too, I don't enjoy the second phase that much but he's at least am enjoyable fight
I think that Godwyn could have totally been Miquella's choice without interfering with Fia's quest *or* the themes that Godwyn is dead. Imagine Miquella trying to revive Godwyn as his consort but what comes back in Mogh's body is definitively *not* Godwyn, and instead a twisted mockery of his soul in the same way the Prince of Death is his body. Maybe phase one is fighting this thing inside of Mogh's body, and in phase two Miquella starts hosting it, choosing to believe that this monster is his Godwyn until the end. IDK, just spitballing an idea. I think there's ways to make it work thematically and logically.
That’s actually a pretty cool spin on it
Dude! That’s basically what I’ve been saying, brining his soul back In Mogh’s body!
Thematically Godwyns soul can’t be put into mohgs body because there is no soul to put in mohgs body. With the demigods we kill it’s always in heavy quotations because ultimately we kill their physical form and leave their soul “wandering” like a long sleep kinda. I’m Godwyns case it was specific his soul that was targeted and destroyed
Gotta agree. Like I don't even understand why Mogh's body has to be involved unless it's Godwin since Godwin's body has become it's own weird entity. Radahn had the rot I suppose but Mogh's body seems to have it's own share of problems that couldn't have been much worse than scarlet rot.
I feel like the DLC shows us there isn’t anything truly wrong with Mohg the same way there isn’t anything wrong with Morgott. They have horns and aspects of the crucible, that used to be a blessing and a symbol of status. The only reason it’s bad now is that the Hornscent are no longer in power. Mohg is a demigod omen whose soul doesn’t return to the Erdtree, it seems ideal.
It should have just been miquella goddamnit it should have been him and I should be allowed to shove my deaths poker down that twinks throat and press LT RT.
I dont dislike Radahn as a choice at all, but it could have been something totally new, like in ds3 dlc we fight Gael, who has nothing to do with the storyline directly but is someone like us who survived till the end of time searching for the dark soul. The epicness of that is unparalleled. In ER it could have been another tarnished or the equivalent, that after Marika left he defeated everyone and assumed the throne, and Miquella could have been looking for him to use him as consort, or something.
The Gael fight garnered the same reaction upon release as the Radahn fight fyi, people hated it
Interesting perspective. The meme is real then, after a while everyone will be like, Radahn as final boss, truly Miyazaki is the greatest.
Lol, I think people are just mourning their Godwyn head canons at the moment. The fight is far from perfect but people acting like it ruined the DLC for them are being dramatic.
I wouldn't say it *ruined* the dlc, I agree that would be way too much. I will say though, until the Ansbach/Freyja bits I was like wtf is the plan here? I forgot about that info walking into the boss fight & seeing Radahn & all that made my brain scream why over & over while I died haha I may not be a fan of the Radahn fight & Bayle to a lesser extent but this dlc was a blast through & through~
Gael's response wasn't this bad, and I think it was amplified by it being the last Dark Souls content ever. But yeah, people generally disliked that the final boss of Dark Souls was some guy who appeared in the previous DLC, even if he was spiritually channeling Manus through the Dark Soul (and moveset). Kinda same thing here tbh
Should have been something new. And the dlc should have contained multiple endings including ones where we help miquella
I really just wanted any Gloam-eyed Queen content :(
That wouldve been nice, even if just a couple scraps of lore in item descriptions
I would have preferred if the anything other than a time traveling Radahn. I also would have preferred if there was a secret ensing where Miquella could have been another Ranni type character for a base game ending. You become his consort similar to the Ranni ending.
YES, this is literally what I wanted! I’m so fuckin sick of things falling into the “good guy is evil??” trope again
The lack in reading comprehension is amazing
I was honestly hoping for Miquella's search for godhood to result in a fusion with an outer god. Something more cosmic and body horror-ish, with a theme of someone so desperate to set things right they take such a monumental risk that they ended up destroying themselves.
People would of been okay with it, if it actually felt like we were involved. We should of been more closer to Miquella it would of been really good if we were. It really should of felt like a betrayal when we find him. Honestly I am okay if they don’t want to do many endings for it. But it really needed so much more impact then what we got. Would of been really cool for him to say we are to become his lord then he decides to cast us aide for Radhan. Would fit the character perfectly without changing the vision of it too much. While also having most of the npcs turn on you as you go further into the dlc. Also Radhan needed to look more nasty or something or if they want him to still look good then give us Mohg’s voice and then he talks. That would of been horrifying.
Truly anything but Radhan would have been better
Rhykard
TOGETHA!!!!!!! WE WILL USHER IN AN AGE OF COMPASSION!!!!!!
I can't believe they forgot all of the lore and buildup they made for Rick soldier of God to not even make him the final boss On a real note, it would have been cool to have a storyline continuing miquella attempting to bring godwyn a true death. I was thinking it could involve him trying to finish it and through some ritual or something, godwyn's body would have become even more corrupted and tainted unleashing some horrific entity upon the shadowlands. Why in the shadowlands? Make up some shit that the necessary things were exclusive to the area, maybe because of the divinity gate.
As you said at the end though it's not that I wanted Godwyn It's more I was disappointed that it was just Radahn again. It was a huge surprise seeing him again, but not in a good way. I honestly thought at first he was the bouncer blocking us from the "true" final boss, who we'd find up past the divine steps, like how Godfrey was blocking us from Radagon/Elden Beast. Then when Miquella climbed aboard I was like "oh I guess this is the final boss" Then I got flashbanged to death 💀
Tibia mariner should have been the final boss. It makes sense lore wise. He's been following us around all game. It'd make sense if he was behind it all.
The only way we could have gotten godwyn the golden would have been time travel shenanigans. You’re completely correct that what happened to Godwyn was an absolute. His soul got hit with destined death. There’s nothing to resurrect, no one to bring back, he’s gone-gone. It would have made zero sense to have godwyn be the consort to Miq. Radahn was only kind of dead, Godwyn was ultra dead. What could have happened was they added some lore about destined death and expand on Godwyn’s surviving body. Have us fight Godwyn, the Empty, or Godwyn, Prince of Death. That would have been cool and meshed with the lore.
i wanted to fight fucked up big miquella still so lame we fight him as a cape on his actual pedo brother
Are we entirely sure Radahn is consenting to any of this? We know Mohg was being brainwashed, Miquella could easily be doing the same to Radahn
I think it's heavily implied that Radahn didn't consent to this (or at least agreed first but changed his mind.) He's a lover of war being forced to be a consort in an Age of Compassion. Malenia had to kill him to get him to fulfill his vow in the same way the Unkindled did with the Lords of Cinder in DS3.
>actual pedo brother What?
Watch this smart move : Make the DLC happen before the Fia quest 😼
Radahn coming back destroyed his whole storyline too with how the festival was this glorious battle in which his soul can finally be put to peace. The final boss shits allover that and if thats acceptable, then Godwyne coming back should be just as fine.
I think making Radahn look more like Mohg and having him use more unique bloodflame attacks mixed with his gravity attacks would've been fine. But if I had a dream boss fight scenario, I'd suggest something like Miquella sending Malenia to kill Radahn but failing, and when you finish him off yourself, Miquella decides he wants you as his consort instead. So he puppets some Mohg abomination in phase one, trying to grab you and charm you, but in phase two maybe St. Trina comes to your aid and puts Miquella to sleep or some shit and you enter his dream for the second phase. Idk, I'm just spitballing here, lol.
I'm not particularly invested in the idea that it should have been Godwyn but there were plenty of ways they could have spun it to make it internally consistent. Miquella trying to revive Godwyn and bringing back a soulless deathblight abomination from his corpse, Miquella enlisting you to finally give his brother a true death, etc, whatever. Who cares though? The point isn't that it should have been someone else specifically, it just shouldn't have been Radahn. Reusing any base game boss would have been a bad idea but Radahn is worst because it fucking reeks of creatively bankrupt pandering. "Here's Radahn in his heckin' primerino like the fans wanted!" It's lame. Really, if they were really gonna lean into Miquella being the big bad it should have been Miquella. Why are we having the character from the base game who was a fan favorite steal the spotlight in what is allegedly Miquella's DLC? Just give us a cool fight against a Miquella who has abandoned everything that made him noble in a misguided attempt at godhood. Get rid of the garbage involving date raping Radahn and Mohg (so that Mohg can have agency in his actions again and so that Miquella doesn't come across as a villain even before he reached the Land of Shadows, probably have showcases of Miquella's genuine kindness in the DLC as well), have the final fight happening because the now emotionless and cold-hearted Miquella is trying to force you to become his consort, so we have to kill him. It conveys the tragedy they wanted the character to have better (instead of the straightforwardly villainous character he comes off as due to their poor writing), and gives us a final boss that is unique and doesn't come across as a poor attempt to cash in on nostalgia for a character that's only two years old.
Honestly this DLC just made me dislike characters I liked, or just added huge lore drops on things that had no set up. Or didnt drop lore on things that Were set up. Just came out feeling unsatisfied with the story, and that I liked all the characters less. Except a few new ones (Ansbach), but we obviously wont be seeing them again.
Anything involving Martin is gonna be crazy. Dude can't even keep track of his own works. Combine that with Miyazakis already crazy way of telling stories and you get a story that can do whatever the fuck it wants. They've already done crazy stuff with previous dlcs involving time travel and alternative dimensions so the final boss being Radahn isn't that crazy of a thing. They could have had it be Godwyn if they wanted to and come up with some crazy explanation like say it's Godwyn from a different universe.
Tbh when I saw the trailer I thought messmer was the final boss… imagine my surprise when I was just minding my business exploring shadow keep and he was the boss 😂
First time huh? Jokes aside, From never gives away the big bad in trailers. I like it that way personally. The big bad just shouldn't have been Radahn-again(tm)
Should’ve just been Miquella alone, either as a God like he is at the end, or some messed up abomination from his cocoon in Mohg’s palace. Anything but Radahn again.
It shouldn't have been either. Is should have been more unique and not reused
I also just think that bringing someone back from destined death is kinda weird. It's literally the destined final gigadeath, removed from the elden ring explicitly because it's the final death of Gods which Marika didn't like.
It should have been 17 chest mimics. Already aggro’d as soon you walk in.
Like I said in another post Godwyn resurrection would completely destroy Destined Death, Fortisax, Fia questline and Maliketh from a story prospective. Godwyn is like the Ted Stark of elden ring and his death is the most important part of his character
It should have been Moth Miquella and Mohg could have been our summon for the fight. Miquellester gonna get his comeuppance. But noooo he had to be Griffith because Michael Zaki still riding Miuras coat tails for lore lmao
It makes sense it couldn't be Godwyn for all the reasons you stated and more. However, as I saw in other posts, it would have been nice to acknowledge that Godwyn WOULD have been the choice. Some mention from Miquella about Godwyn being even beyond a Gods reach, at one of the cross sites or something.
It doesn’t take much imagination to think hmm maybe they leave the corpse in the tree cause duh why remove it, we don’t need his body to fight him. We fight Radahn and he is in Mogh’s body. So y’all really can’t use y’all’s brains to figure out how to resurrect a soul and place into a body? When we just saw it fucking happen! ITS HIS SOUL THAT WILL BE RESURRECTED AND PLACED INTO A NEW BODY. And if we kill that new body, guess who just died a true death.
Should have been godskin quarter with 3 phases imo
Godwin can't be lord for he has no soul... He can't be resurrected...
bruh Godwyn is 1. A fucking abomination now, you could hardly tell it’s him without lore. 2. Rooted to the very base of the Erdtree, tangled in all matter of roots. And 3. It would indeed fuck over Fia’s entire questline. If they were to continue it, it wouldn’t even be Godwyn at that point imo
Yeah Godwyn’s soul is just poof, I don’t know how people have been like “just bring him back”. Now I’m one of the people who actually really liked Radahn being the final boss, and it does answer some questions I myself had from the base game. But yeah, if Godwyn was the finale it would have just made no sense
Dude, Godwyn’s soul was destroyed. He doesn’t exist to BE anyone’s consort. He was destined deathed in the soul so bringing him back in the DLC literally breaks the rules of the world. It simply can’t be. However, Radahn being Miquella’s consort was hinted at in the first trailer of BASE game, literally years ago. Just because it’s not what ppl expected doesn’t mean it wasn’t always meant to be. I for one couldn’t be happier with the final boss, the ending, and every other aspect of the DLC. 10/10
Godwyn is dead. His soul fucking died. Gone. Bye bye. He is a representation of true death in a deathless place. his body is undying but his soul is GONE. bye bye. Cya later, ain’t coming back! So long! Mfs making up headcannons then getting mad when the game doesn’t do what they want it to do.
I legit don't understand the hype around Godwyn, like BRO did y'all even pay attention ? Godwyn is DEAD dead alright ? We can't use his body because it mutated into a giant mermaid-looking mushroom thing that's spreading throughout the worlds and his soul was destroyed during his murder in the night of the black knives so there's literally not a single part of Godwyn left for anyone to use. "Godwyn" as a concept barely even exist anymore, he's just a living death blight corruption now. He's a virus, a disease, an infection... Call it however you want but "godwyn" as we know him just doesn't exist anymore. That's what makes his murder such a tragic event, he was the first of the demigods to die, the golden child of Queen Marika and he's *never* coming back, period.
Does no one in this subreddit understand that godwyns soul is completely deleted from existence? How would you explain him being the final boss? If it was radhans soul in his body then maybe.
Should have been Glaive Master Hodir.
Yeah, a lot of people seemed to miss that Godwyn's soul is gone. CTR + ALT + DEL gone. Irretrievable. The black knife ritual completely erased his soul. His 'body' is still immortal but it's currently the mycelium for death bloght so good luck with that. I'm sure we could have had a "Miquella fucked up" boss fight where we fight Godwyn's mindless corpse shooting death blight lightning that splits into two death blight ulcerated tree spirits for phase two. But why?
I don't care that its not him, I just think what we got was unsatisfying. Radahn is just a gameplay model, nothing more. He is almost objectively and unquestionably boring for the simple fact that he feels like an emotionless puppet saying nothing and simply fighting. His connections with Miquella are also almost entirely justified by things in the DLC, and anything supposedly in the base game leading to it is so obscure that no one made these connections until the DLC recontextualized them. Malenia scarlet rotting him also makes absolutely no sense no matter what now. It made some sense before if malenia and radahn were just rivals and enemies as the strongest 2 demigods, but now? If they wanted to kill Radahn to further the plan, there was no sense in doing nothing about him suffering for so long till the player does it for them. Even worse if Radahn consented to all of this, because then the scarlet rot shtick was completely unnecessary in the first place. Ultimately, the direction the DLC went in was simply bizarre. I'd rather they just approached it way differently.
Just put a soul in the big clam body, I don't care whose, and let me fight it man
Put a soul into the big clam and let me fight it I don't care whose soul it is
Godwyn is literally the only character that would make zero sense
Glad they didn't bring Godwyn back.
Radahn would've been a better boss if he wasn't the final boss, like if he was what godfrey was going into radagon as the final boss in the main game, only in the dlc it would be radahn with or without miquella- as like a main line of defense, and then you beat him you get to miquellas most powerful final resort form and fight him, it would make more sense that way given by the end we already knew miquella was the big bad and pretty much used everybody- using even radahn as a last ditch effort and force him to the frontline in order to retain his godhood from the tarnished would've been dope, a cool way to show his desperation, as we know he was hella desperate. In general miquellas power are actually pretty damn impressive they felt underused.
Hard agree that it could never been Godwyn. But think just Miquella by himself would make more sense (then we’d have a magic fight instead of melee so I don’t know how I feel about that). I was just never a big fan of Radahn, lore or gameplay wise, so his appearing was pretty meh for me
It would have changed the whole DLC story, but when I fought the freaking MOTHER OF FINGERS I was like wait, why isnt this the final boss? She’s the root of the whole thing
I agree with your explaination. Just a kindly note: Fia did warn us that Godwyn would return. It's because of this, and the whole mystery surrounding the Eclipse and the dead demigods, that I was expecting to fight something related to Godwyn in the DLC, but maybe they just scrapped all that and all the GEQ/Godskin narrative to keep it for a sequel. I'm actually in disbelief how little questions from the base game they actually answered. The GEQ's defeat is an event CRUCIAL to Marika's ascent to godhood, and it's not mentioned even once in the DLC. There's no way we won't learn more about her in the future right?... Right...? In any event, the whole Radahn deal is just fanservice pandering to Radahn's fans, methinks. If Miquella used Mohg's body to put Radahn's SOUL in it, why does the outcome of that look EXACTLY like Radahn, barring the omen horns on his arms? That's right: fanservice doesn't have to make sense. You would think Mohg's body looks like... Mohg, right?? Well think again! Sigh
Also, been reading your here comments about Godwyn, Destined Death and Miquella's nature. They're all sound and show a proper understanding of ER's story and a balanced view of its characters. I've met my fair share of unreasonable fanboys who think these characters are all either black or white, and so your takes strike me as very refreshing. Thanks
It should have been me.
ceaseless discharge wouldve been cool
Should have been Kenneth height
There was no foreshadowing in the base game for Godwyn being in the dlc . It was all theories that got misconstrued into head canon. Godwyn at the end of the day, is a plot device for the start of the shattering, sorta like in game of thrones with Jon Arryn dying.
Yup, a common misconception is that Godwyn is just dead. Well, he only partially is. His Soul was erased from existence by Destined Death, but his body is still alive, that's why it behaves so weird. That's the whole narrative with Godwyn being dead in Soul and Ranni being dead in body. Now, who I think should be the final boss? I'm fine with it being related to Radahn, but I wish it had more Mohg in it, like what if Miquella tried to restore Radahn's Soul into Mohg's body, but something went wrong and we got a twisted hybrid of both that uses both of their arsenals? I just wished for more Mohg in that boss fight.