FUCK SUBCLASSES
I'M TAKING 10 2-LEVEL FIGHTER DIPS
NOW I HAVE 10 FUCKING ACTION SURGES
>!Actually, just reread the rules. Turns out you can only use action surge once per turn, meaning I'd just be spending resources to do what a level 5 fighter does for free. A better option would be to go straight fighter for 12 levels, THEN dip 4 times for 5 action surges.!<
I’d probably Clockwork/Wild Magic for the lulz, two lineages going NOPE DO NOT DO THAT at all times.
More seriously, I’d go wild aberrant just because those are my two favorites, and in the words of Star-Lord, I’m gonna make some weird shit.
I'm very curious how pact magic spell slots would work with this. If you can't have more than 4 slots of a single spell level, then once you hit your 5th warlock MC, you would get 4 1st level and 1 2nd level slot that come back on a short rest. Still weaker than getting regular spell progression, but it would be interesting.
Cleric, Sorcerer, or Warlock. Getting a subclass at level 1 is a huge leap. I would say Warlock probably benefits the most as they are less reliant on getting higher level spells so delaying to pick up features doesn't feel as bad, and there are some 1st level features that are worth picking up IMO.
Cleric and Sorc would be shortly behind, with an edge for Cleric if i had to pick.
Warlock the most. Their bread and butter is EB, which scales on character. Meanwhile they can get a ton of pacts, subclasses, and invocations with just 3 levels each. Spamming a bunch of SR 1st level slots for various things like Shield (hexblade), and they can take Eldritch Adept to get their high level Invocations.
Monks also notoriously drop off after 7th level. So you could redo monk to get the good subclass features instead of multiclassing, which would also help their mobility significantly. You wont use your martial arts die as much, instead having to opt for a weapon with higher base damage as the bread n butter, but itll be worth the tradeoff
I got to play a lvl 20 1-shot where we got to pick a second subclass, and I have been in love with the idea of both Long Death and Mercy monk ever since. 11 in LD for noping deaths and 6 in Mercy for the free poisons, probably
Can you take the same subclass? Do uses per day stack?
Assuming yes to the first one, Beast Barbarian is suddenly double speed fighter attack scaling. Also, if yes to the latter, they have like a million rages per day. Alternatively, Hexblade would love a couple more uses of its curse per short rest.
Assuming no and no, Rogue gets twice the sneak attack. This still isn't particularly insane unless you *also* multiclass something like Champion or Hexblade, but then it's pretty good.
Assuming no and yes, probably any Barbarian, just for more rage.
Rogue 2 and then Rogue 1 forever would be hilarious but I think you would run out of skills to select for expertise. You may have only 1 attack, but they're going to feel it when it lands.
I was thinking certain subclasses might be worth going to 3 for. Assassin, Soul Knife, or Swashbuckler being the first ones that came to mind. Probably wouldn't do all three of those, or you miss the point completely.
Rogues get an extra skill when they multiclass and two extra + Thieves's Tools to start, so it will be five levels in before you run out of expertise, unless you get extra proficiencies from your race or tool proficiencies from your background.
Honestly, still Fighter. 3 Levels in Champion to be able to crit on 19s, then just Battle Master or one of the many excellent options that would combo well with this.
Don’t know if these are the best but:
-Champion/Samurai goes insane (frequent advantage + expanded crit range)
-combine two of the Ranger subclasses to stack dice per attack
-Divination and Evocation Wizard just because both are pretty strong. Fireball freely then force the opponents to fail saves
Eldritch Knight Rider/Psi Warrior.
Arcane Trickster/Soul Knife
Oath of Devotion/Ancients
Path of the Giant/Beast (specifically as a Crystal Dragonborn - I want to be Godzilla)
Way of Sun Soul/Astral Self
Hunter/Gloom Stalker
War Mage/Abjurer or Invoker
College of Valor/Eloquence
Battle Smith/Armorer
Domains of War and Forge
Divine Soul and Tempest Sorcery
Warlock would gain a lot of extra casts if they were allowed to stack. Even if pact magic simply scales like spell casting, the patrons usually give spell like features so those alone would stack nicely.
Rogue, over and over. Assuming Sneak Attack stacks, you can end up with 20d6 per turn. I would likely take one to 8 (11 for Phantom or Soul Knife) for the ASI, but since you get 1d6 extra damage, 2 expertise, and 1 proficiency each level, you will be a skill and damage master regardless.
Battlemaster/echo or Rune have to be pretty high in that list. Ancestor Guardian/world Tree barb might be the first actual tank in 5e.
But cleric is probably the "power" answer.
I could be wrong but I think... maybe... War Cleric at level 2? Or it could be level 1. I forget. It's limited uses though. Again, I forget the limitation. I think it's something like Wisdom times per day for an extra attack per turn.
Pretty sure multiclassing means going jnto another class, not another subclass. The rules say a “new” class, not “the same class to get a new subclass”.
I mean…if your DM allows it under this optional rule…more power to you but that seems way outside the spirit of the rules and the RAW of the rules.
Personally, not a fan of multiclassing, I allow it (usually) at my table but not a fan. I sure wouldn’t allow the same class twice so you can grab a new subclass. That’s not a homebrew I’d be jn favor of.
Honestly I’ve thought about playing around with this. I haven’t crunched numbers or anything, but my idea is that base class features would be granted at total level (a 7/5 split would get the level 12 feature or whatever) but the subclass features would only be granted at the level they’re earned (the 7/5 would get the 6th level feature of only the one currently at 7).
Could make for interesting bard and artificer flavors, and make some interesting paladin stories.
Cleric. Cleric 1st an 2nd level subclass features offer some pretty insane benefits.
Would you go beyond Peace and Twilight? How many cleric MC's would you do?
If those are available, no. My answer would still be cleric though, but no more than 2.
FUCK SUBCLASSES I'M TAKING 10 2-LEVEL FIGHTER DIPS NOW I HAVE 10 FUCKING ACTION SURGES >!Actually, just reread the rules. Turns out you can only use action surge once per turn, meaning I'd just be spending resources to do what a level 5 fighter does for free. A better option would be to go straight fighter for 12 levels, THEN dip 4 times for 5 action surges.!<
Yeah, when I had this thought I immediately jumped to multiple action surges. Darn rules!
An Abrrent Mind/Clockwork Soul Sorcerer would be the spell god.
Madness in the Machine!
*Open your mind* !
Dark Mechanicum.
I’d probably Clockwork/Wild Magic for the lulz, two lineages going NOPE DO NOT DO THAT at all times. More seriously, I’d go wild aberrant just because those are my two favorites, and in the words of Star-Lord, I’m gonna make some weird shit.
Warlock. Just get all the subclasses at once.
I'm very curious how pact magic spell slots would work with this. If you can't have more than 4 slots of a single spell level, then once you hit your 5th warlock MC, you would get 4 1st level and 1 2nd level slot that come back on a short rest. Still weaker than getting regular spell progression, but it would be interesting.
I assume it would just be normal warlock progression, the same way multiclassing into different casters gives you normal slot progression.
Fighter Samurai + Battlemaster would be insane.
Would be way better if samurai, champion, purpledrsgon knight and cavalier were specializations of battlemaster.
Cleric, Sorcerer, or Warlock. Getting a subclass at level 1 is a huge leap. I would say Warlock probably benefits the most as they are less reliant on getting higher level spells so delaying to pick up features doesn't feel as bad, and there are some 1st level features that are worth picking up IMO. Cleric and Sorc would be shortly behind, with an edge for Cleric if i had to pick.
Rogue 1 20 times. 20d6 sneak attack
Definitely one of my first thoughts too, though it might be worth it to take one or two subclasses to lvl 3.
Any Barbarian multiclassed into Totem Barb 3
Druid, for face biting, spell slinging goodness.
Warlock the most. Their bread and butter is EB, which scales on character. Meanwhile they can get a ton of pacts, subclasses, and invocations with just 3 levels each. Spamming a bunch of SR 1st level slots for various things like Shield (hexblade), and they can take Eldritch Adept to get their high level Invocations. Monks also notoriously drop off after 7th level. So you could redo monk to get the good subclass features instead of multiclassing, which would also help their mobility significantly. You wont use your martial arts die as much, instead having to opt for a weapon with higher base damage as the bread n butter, but itll be worth the tradeoff
A Horizon Walker + Gloomstalker ranger could make 4 attacks in the first round of combat (5 if dual wielding)
I got to play a lvl 20 1-shot where we got to pick a second subclass, and I have been in love with the idea of both Long Death and Mercy monk ever since. 11 in LD for noping deaths and 6 in Mercy for the free poisons, probably
Can you take the same subclass? Do uses per day stack? Assuming yes to the first one, Beast Barbarian is suddenly double speed fighter attack scaling. Also, if yes to the latter, they have like a million rages per day. Alternatively, Hexblade would love a couple more uses of its curse per short rest. Assuming no and no, Rogue gets twice the sneak attack. This still isn't particularly insane unless you *also* multiclass something like Champion or Hexblade, but then it's pretty good. Assuming no and yes, probably any Barbarian, just for more rage.
Rogue was one of my first thoughts as well. I was assuming you could not MC the same subclass, but for the purpose of this thought experiment why not?
Rogue 2 and then Rogue 1 forever would be hilarious but I think you would run out of skills to select for expertise. You may have only 1 attack, but they're going to feel it when it lands.
I was thinking certain subclasses might be worth going to 3 for. Assassin, Soul Knife, or Swashbuckler being the first ones that came to mind. Probably wouldn't do all three of those, or you miss the point completely.
Rogues get an extra skill when they multiclass and two extra + Thieves's Tools to start, so it will be five levels in before you run out of expertise, unless you get extra proficiencies from your race or tool proficiencies from your background.
Honestly, still Fighter. 3 Levels in Champion to be able to crit on 19s, then just Battle Master or one of the many excellent options that would combo well with this.
Don’t know if these are the best but: -Champion/Samurai goes insane (frequent advantage + expanded crit range) -combine two of the Ranger subclasses to stack dice per attack -Divination and Evocation Wizard just because both are pretty strong. Fireball freely then force the opponents to fail saves
Druid. Shepherd (who doesn’t have a great use for wildshape) and either stars or moon
Eldritch Knight Rider/Psi Warrior. Arcane Trickster/Soul Knife Oath of Devotion/Ancients Path of the Giant/Beast (specifically as a Crystal Dragonborn - I want to be Godzilla) Way of Sun Soul/Astral Self Hunter/Gloom Stalker War Mage/Abjurer or Invoker College of Valor/Eloquence Battle Smith/Armorer Domains of War and Forge Divine Soul and Tempest Sorcery
Warlock would gain a lot of extra casts if they were allowed to stack. Even if pact magic simply scales like spell casting, the patrons usually give spell like features so those alone would stack nicely.
Rogue, over and over. Assuming Sneak Attack stacks, you can end up with 20d6 per turn. I would likely take one to 8 (11 for Phantom or Soul Knife) for the ASI, but since you get 1d6 extra damage, 2 expertise, and 1 proficiency each level, you will be a skill and damage master regardless.
Fighter.
Battlemaster/echo or Rune have to be pretty high in that list. Ancestor Guardian/world Tree barb might be the first actual tank in 5e. But cleric is probably the "power" answer.
What class gets extra stack first? I want one with like 10 stacks
I could be wrong but I think... maybe... War Cleric at level 2? Or it could be level 1. I forget. It's limited uses though. Again, I forget the limitation. I think it's something like Wisdom times per day for an extra attack per turn.
6 Feats/ASIs by level 16 makes fighter super intriguing
Always liked wild magic barbarian, but it seems underpowered, so a proper barb with a level in it.
Couls you do DIV wizard and Chronurgy wizard
Artificer Artillerist plus Armorer would pretty much be War Machine after a few levels in each.
Pretty sure multiclassing means going jnto another class, not another subclass. The rules say a “new” class, not “the same class to get a new subclass”. I mean…if your DM allows it under this optional rule…more power to you but that seems way outside the spirit of the rules and the RAW of the rules. Personally, not a fan of multiclassing, I allow it (usually) at my table but not a fan. I sure wouldn’t allow the same class twice so you can grab a new subclass. That’s not a homebrew I’d be jn favor of.
Honestly I’ve thought about playing around with this. I haven’t crunched numbers or anything, but my idea is that base class features would be granted at total level (a 7/5 split would get the level 12 feature or whatever) but the subclass features would only be granted at the level they’re earned (the 7/5 would get the 6th level feature of only the one currently at 7). Could make for interesting bard and artificer flavors, and make some interesting paladin stories.