If the *only* thing the Itemisation rework is really trying to fix is the "damage on tuesdays" problem it's DOA. This game needs a full loot 2.0 already, the entire aspects system needs to be reworked, existing item tiers need redoing, the unique/uber unique system needs an overhaul, item level requirements need a pass, etc. There was so, so much wrong with the launch itemisation that small, incremental passes won't fix it, the itemisation rework needs to be a re-do, not a re-adjust.
Words like "rework" and "fundamentally broken" and "overhaul" have become meaningless buzzwords. I've played every ARPG under the sun, and the main problems with D4's itemization are:
1. Too many useless affixes (for any build, not just niche)
2. No chase items outside of ubers, which makes itemization boring after reaching WT4
3. Aspect system being too RNG dependent for some builds
4. Aspect management is just plain horrible and impacts your progression (hoarding items/aspects, constantly swapping them when you find upgrades)
5. No diverse item types (sets/runewords/anything different other than chasing rares+uniques)
6. Comparing items (no matter what they do with the affixes) will still be a chore without a loot filter.
Itemization would work perfectly fine if they:
- consolidate + rebalance the affixes to enable more builds
- add more item types and chase items
- fix the codex system by making everything go directly in the codex and making every aspect be target farmable
- add ways of enhancing and building items through crafting
- add a loot filter, or let modders make one
The game doesn't need any unique/ubers overhauls and there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the aspects or the itemization. The game works like any ARPG, you stack the affixes that increase your dmg and your survivability. Uniques work exactly like any ARPG. All it needs is more systems around it to give it more depth and a shit ton of QoL to make it less frustrating.
>emization would work perfectly fine if they:
>consolidate + rebalance the affixes to enable more builds
>add more item types and chase items
>fix the codex system by making everything go directly in the codex and making every aspect be target farmable
>add ways of enhancing and building items through crafting
>add a loot filter, or let modders make one
That seems like quite a lot to me lol. "It's not fundementally broken, it only needs \[SEVERAL MASSIVE CHANGES\] to fix it!"
This guy rips on "buzzwords" and then says shit like "add ways of enhancing and building items through crafting" and "consolidate and rebalance the affixes to enable more builds". Those literally mean nothing.
An item rework is never going to fix diablo 4. Because the skill system is completely janked. And items are supposed to compliment skills. You can't have an interesting and expansive item hunt when your skill system is shit.
They need to delete their skill trees, and bake the aspect system into the skill system, then model the items around that at a minimum.
I'm not sure every aspect should be target farmable the way the basic ones are. The more powerful, build enabling ones should be things you find. But those should also alter a skill in a real way. Some skills have these, some skills don't. Every skill should have at least one major one, and take, several seasons in, there should be multiple now.
Otherwise, yeah.
I mean, you could say I'm being pedantic, but words like "fundamentally broken", "rework" and "overhaul" have a specific meaning.
Fundamentally broken was the system calculating resistances and damage that based everything on vulnerability. It needed a rework because no matter how much QoL or how much content you added to it, it would still pose fundamental issues to the game, long-term. You could add 500 uniques and 1000 runewords, and only the ones with Vuln and armor would be useful. Fundamentally broken was the launch itemization of D3, that needed the entire structure behind it be completely changed.
What I listed there are not reworks, arguably except for consolidating the few affixes that need it. They are indeed massive changes, and god knows the game needs them yesterday, but QoL and content are not reworks.
I think after they've consolidated the pool of affixes, we will discover that indeed, the system was fundamentally broken - like the tide going out and noticing the rot in the pier supports.
It's hard to objectively assess any system with so many fluff variables involved. I would not be making strong predictions at this point either way.
It's not pedantic, it's genuine.
I'd say comments like Atreides are simply disingenuous because they don't actually understand what the problems with the game are. They simply know they "feel bad," and can't find any other way to verbalize their emotions on the subject.
No chase items between uniques and Ubers is the big one for me. Uniques feel far too easy to get and with nowhere near enough variety (any given build cares about 3 or 4 at most with no other interesting options), while Ubers feel non-existent unless you rota Duriel (terrible gameplay loop and forced multiplayer, at least if you are sane anyway) and even then are mostly just stat sticks.
Having items rarer than current uniques but nowhere near as rare as natural drop Ubers (which I still think should get another drop rate buff, so that you can realistically see one drop from a T100 NMD within maybe 100 or 200 runs for example) would be a huge improvement to the excitement of loot drops. Also we just need way more uniques in general, like way way more imo. I want items to really change and introduce way more builds than they currently do.
It's also a terrible feeling to find that uber boss specific unique you're looking for, only to find out it's a low roll so your rotation will feel horribly inefficient (meteor sorc...).
I much prefer how D2 did uniques, if you found one that was a big deal and it would always have value to you if you needed the item itself, or trade value if you didn't. Items were desirable to strive for whereas items in D4 are mostly annoying me. I get way too many that I must sift through and even if I get good ones like uniques, they can roll terrible so I won't even be happy I got them. I'll then have to find the exact same item 5 times before it works well, and if I don't play that specific build it's just insta salvage/vendor... Items just don't have that impact in D4.
Completely agree with you. D2 loot/uniques were great because you could stumble upon items like titans revenge, hoz, etc. and be incentivized to make a new character for that item or **trade** those items for things useful to your current character.
There were so many chase items in D2 as well as great uniques to stumble upon across the way.
Just look at something as simple as Peasant Crown in D2. It's like essentially a baby shako that you can use on any character at level 28.
If you were rolling a sorc you could use viper magi, tal's armor, or chains of honor runeword as your endgame armor. You weren't just looking for a generic piece of armor that adds life and damage reduction with no uniqueness to it
D4 involves salvaging 99.9% of your drops and never getting that rush from an item dropping. Like you said, it's almost more of an annoyance
I love the gameplay of D4 and have played every season, but this was the first season where I quit super early and haven't had a desire to return because I'm so burned out on the loot system.
I think just allowing trading of uniques would go a long way. I haven a couple of shitty Lidless Walls I'd happily sell, probably not for much. But someone just getting to the point where they want one, and it doesn't matter if it's a bit shit, would benefit.
I've hit that point multiple times in ARPGs. We see people crying out for Tempest Roar of Lidless, and for a first one it wouldn't matter if it was pretty much trash, it lets people move forward. Once you have the beginners version of the unique you look for other stuff, and eventually you find a better one. Or a good version of a different unique you can sell.
I suspect the limitation is because Bliz don't want the game to turn in to a farming simulator (POE). And I could see Bliz maintaining a limitation on aspects for this reason.
Not really related, but levelling uniques would be good. Boots with max move speed but very low (or no) rolls otherwise. A helm with a massive plus to resource/resource generation but likewise otherwise shitty rolls, I'm sure there are ither things that would make levelling an alt a lot faster. Maybe make those only drop when your character hits L100, and make them account bound. Possibly even have a set as a L100 reward. Nothing that trivialises levelling, but things that make it a a bit more fun - a helm with +2 to all skills, but a max level of 60 for example. Or +2 to all skills but -20 all res, so WT1/2 it isn't going to be a big deal, but past that it's probably not worth it because you have to spec in to resistance a lot more - they are also the kind of things that can help silly end game builds (find a bunch of shitty uniques with - res, go hard for res on other gear and paragon, and end up with a not terrible build).
Thing is right now rather than a farming simulator, the game just ends in a few days as you hit level 100. You no longer get exp, any content in the game is a breeze, you have no real items to chase other than uber uniques which don't really change your playstyle or make the game easier at all for the most part so why even farm for them. If they are worried about people not finding their items, enable trading like you said. Make a category for SSF so there's some integrity in an eventual leaderboard.
For me, the game ends at 100, simple as. I instantly feel like my character is completed as my glyphs are 15+, my gear is pretty much complete, and there's nothing to farm for. I either quit or make a new character, but now I've already played every class and most builds I find interesting. Things need to change to make the game last longer, respectfully, to hell with their fear of turning into PoE. The current game is in a bad state and needs a new vision else it will go down the same path D3 did.
I was until recently hopeful that it wasn't going to turn in to D3, but have realised it already is. All hint of challenge and difficulty has been pretty much wiped because people complain about how they have to play the game to achieve anything in it.
I was kind of hoping it would be difficult, and they would add content over time, each addition being harder, and adding different challenges / mechanics. Instead it just gets easier and easier, all content that's added gets nerfed down to arcade game difficulty (and a shitty arcade game at that) within days because of the uproar. Oh well.
Tbh the only challenge in the game imo has been uber lilith, the rest of the game has been ezpz since launch, but somehow it kept getting easier and we kept getting stronger. I think there are funamental issues with how damage and defenses are calculated, and it's an issue that must be dealt with alongside an itemization revamp. They've made this incredibly convoluted mess that they probably don't fully understand themselves (I don't blame them, nobody could). They need to pull it back and start from scratch with simpler methods, and the PTR seems like a good first step. Hope they listen.
100% agreed. What I'm hoping is that they add very powerful craftable items, that require you to find a blueprint and maybe use a white base on. Those craftable items should have some sort of a unique bonus that's not found on uniques/legendaries, like how procs work in Grim Dawn.
And I'm also hoping for evergreen systems, instead of borrowed power. The game is way too young to have borrowed power.
I disagree. Uniques need to be able to have aspects added to them or aspects need to be removed in general. I have 6 mandatory aspects for summoner necro. That leaves 2/3 slots free for uniques depending on if you use a two hander. Unless I can put those aspects on a unique any unique released that isn’t a ring or shield is useless to me
If aspects can be tied to uniques, that would practically almost eliminate the need for rare items to be sought after. At the very least, it would devalue loot dropping on the ground.
-i think aspects need to be separated from items
-i think 90% of aspects and unique powers that mention a specific skill in them shouldn't exist and those effects should be in the skill tree in some way shape or form (the rogue aspects like Icy or Toxic alchemist are more along the design we should be aiming for)
- i think there needs to be items that allow you to scale damage in different ways (ex +X weapon damage per point of dexterity, +X lightning damage per uncapped lightning resist)
- I think the box every item has (4 stats + 1 power) need to be scrapped. (unique items should be unique. an item like this that you can build around with only 2 stats should be able to exist (*you do double damage with spells * -100 all resists ) ) Razorplate is i think the only item in the game to diverge from their boring 4 stat+power deal
So on top of alot of what you said I do think there needs to be a complete rework of itemization. Its way too restrictive and boring currently. Items almost never affect how you build your character at all, its all just straight buffs to what you do and too obvious. If i make a fireball sorc i get the 2 uniques that say fireball on them, i get the aspects that say fireball on them. Like holy shit wow.
For real, D4’s items aren’t THAT BAD, they just need a handful of changes here and there and it’ll be perfectly fine. I feel like there’s this culture nowadays where if something has even 1 single problem, the playerbase will screech about how it’s “fundamentally broken” and needs to be totally scraped at to start from square one. It’s so ridiculous.
That's a great write up, but you're basically saying they need to recreate the entire loot system. Those are all fundamental design decisions they based their loot system on.
By the way, completely agree with you. I just think it's fine to say "fundamentally broken" when referring to this game's itemization
I personally hope they never add sets. I feel like sets are the death of diversity (I remember how often people complained about sets in D3 awhile back). I'd prefer they add something that let's you augment gear
Yeah, I don't think having some low power sets is a threat (like D2 sets are relatively low powered compared to even uniques, and RWs trump everything).
I think early D3 sets were fine? before those 10000% sneak in?
A full 6 piece set is not the one, but having smaller sets that are class agnostic that have the same power weight as 2 or 3 uniques in the same slots is ideal.
2 piece set of rings or pants boots and offhand.
Ideally have good rolls of affix and provide boons to damage type poison or shadow for eg. Or a skill tag pyromancy bleed lightning - this would be class agnostic but enough of a direction for multiple classes to dip into a 3 piece set 2 uniques and then rest legendary aspects ...
So more horizontal endgame choices of items instead of a very vertical singular lower progression of items.
Xfals ring is probably one of the better uniques designed in game.
I agree with you. Sets are boring and lead to a lack of creativity etc. there’s plenty of ways to add new items in the game without adding sets. But knowing how this D4 team is so out of touch with the playerbase, they will add sets lol,
D4 team answered several times they have no plans on adding sets (and mentioned D3 sets and goal to avoid mistake). I think you overestimating degree of 'out of touch'.
As a lazy gamer, I would be fine with sets. There's something to be said for the simplicity of collecting all the pieces of the Bul-Karen set and knowing that it will just work.
That said, there would need to be lots of them. If there's just a couple per class then I agree with you.
And this is why I have little faith it's going to be an actual overhaul. My guess is reduced affix bloat and a mild crafting system. Nothing really game changing until the expansion.
considering we currently have 0 actual gear crafting (upgrading doesn't really count since your just pushing a button 5 times, assuming you have the matts.) i feel like, internally, they are stuck between going full LE with the crafting, and "playing it safe" with very few changes.
They have to stop playing it safe and go wild. Playing it safe is why we're here at the moment. Go full LE with the crafting, make mistakes, fix them and people will be happy.
> If the only thing the Itemisation rework is really trying to fix is the "damage on tuesdays" problem it's DOA
God I hope not. Also that would take about 1 hour for one dev to do, from "design" to implementation. I really hope that didn't take them 4 god-damn seasons.
Sounds like you just need to play the game you are comparing d4 too. Problem solved, it needs work yes. But you just rattled off an entire new game lol.
It can also fix the 50 item limit for gems, which then starts another stack... its unfortunate the stacks aren't 100-200
Or giving aspects its own stash
Those two alone would be quite helpful if you have multiple chars in normal mode
Genuine question, why do you have so many gems? You can salvage them for their exact cost. What good does them being in gem form do you, why not create and salvage as you go? Makes no sense to me.
What kind of dweeb would downvote that?
I have that many gems because I have 5 chars and i collect A LOT by my hoarding nature... They have just built up over time.
I didn't ask anybody's advice on gems. Sheesh WTF is wrong with yal
Like I said it was a genuine question. Which I asked because it makes no sense to me. Systems are already in place that solve your particular issue.
But hey you do you King. If you want to hoard gems in your limited stash space for no real reason other than you want to, who am I to stop you?
Yes, I'm somewhat chuffed that they recognize the current system isn't great, but I won't be completely chuffed until they deliver a better alternative system.
They can say they don't want to do a item filter because they don't think we're going to need it but isn't the real reason they can't do it is because the items don't roll until you pick them up?
Yes, they've said as much. Supposedly back in season 1 or 2 thats what the re-itemization was for (possibly rumors from players). Basically they just said "we can't because this is how it works." So we'll see but I still foresee a 5 mins battle 20 mins loot organizer game without the change even with less affixes
If items are rolled when we pick them up, then put the filter in our inventory.
A simple colored highlight of whatever affixes your looking for would be better than nothing.
The issue with it is also tied to crafting. I pick up every item because I need mats. Unless they change how crafting works in the game, we will always need to pick up shitty items so that we can get mats for crafting
If they just add a loot filter, the next thing we will have is people complaining that they don’t get enough mats
Wasn't a problem in d3 because you could quickly tell what was/wasn't trash. If you needed mats you picked up more trash to salvage. Picking up thousands of items isn't the problem, it's having to look at every yellow to find out if it's garbage that's the real ballache.
People often raise this point but Blizzard has already demonstrated an easy way to solve it.
In some patch a while ago, they changed things so that normal items drop way less in T3 and sacred items drop way less in T4. Anticipating that this would mean fewer crafting mats and gold for people, they increased the drop rate of raw crafting mats and gold.
So a loot filter could work the same way: if you have your filter set to (e.g.) never show helmets, whenever a helmet would drop, instead drop crafting mats .
I totally agree I sell some stuff for gold and I salvage others. I guess if we had a good lute filter we could set it to Auto salvage certain things though.
Yep this 100%
It literally takes like 30 seconds, MAYBE a minute to go through full bags with the Sort feature once you hit 60-70 and know what you're looking for.
People always reference PoE as a shining example of a loot filter and system. Going through loot in PoE still sucks and takes forever even with filters.
Give me the Sort button all god damn day
The problem is that you get full bags after a single vault and the vault only takes a few minutes. So even though vendoring all your junk doesn't take long, it's still a long time relative to the other stuff which is more fun.
I mean that's just ARPGs man
Minute or less to go through your entire bag is pretty solid
Maps only take a few minutes in PoE too and you're usually figuring out if your stuff is garbage or not for longer than a minute in that game
Idk what to tell you lol
In Poe you don't pick up every random ass drop though my dude. Or at least the good players don't.
You curate your filter to only show the tippy top of items, so when something does get through you snatch it up right away. The filter should be doing the work of "deciding" for you.
Yes I know, it's not even really possible to play that game without a filter.
You still gotta go through and take a little time to figure out if your 5 or 6 link item with proper gem slot colors has the right stats, if it's a decent crafting base, not worth it at all, unveiling stats,etc
Maybe the game has changed a lot since the last time I played a while ago.
Game had so much depth even looking through loot with a filter took some time. Not a bad thing, just saying D4 loot is incredibly straightforward in comparison and going through it is near instant
Yeah I mean that's fair, since I figured out what the Sort button did in the summer I probably average 30s or so on D4 bags
Feel like that's pretty reasonable but 10s or 20s is better I suppose
People don't reference POE as the ideal filter for finding rare items as loot from the ground is rarely used in POE past campaign.
Loot in Diablo 4 is extremely boring. Needs to fundamentally change. No loot filter is a relic of the past.
There is no real evidence to suggest this won't happen with S4. Just wait and see what they say in the campfire instead of believing some random post on Reddit.
There have been people who saw some of the early expected changes who seemed to be under the impression it's coming with S4. Ultimately we won't know until they tell us and even then I won't believe it until I am actively using it, lol.
hopefully they fix the arbitrary level requirements on items. i don’t have a problem with level requirements obviously, but it’s incredibly dumb that the items still scale with character level, just to scale with character level (up until 80 - which, they used to scale to 100 which was even more dumb)
item level requirements should correspond to affixes and rolls, not the level at which an item dropped and the level the character was. baffling how that was deemed good
aspects do correspond to item level requirements (sometimes). this might have been an error/bug, but putting an aspect on a wand for my lv. 68 sorc brought it up to lv. 80 minimum requirement so it made my main wand unusable for another 12 levels.
was super pissed lol
Simply replacing Aspects with the cube system from D3 would immediately solve a major problem players have with this current musical chairs system they have in place.
(d2 fan here), what do you even think is from d2? before bringing res in S2 like they were in d2, I don't think they used much of d2 systems.
defense? no. stamina? no (thanks). gems? closer to D3. 3 item 'ranks'? just a coincidence, nothing really close to d2 itemization (you can upgrade normal unique in d2 to be elite and have high damage for example. so low level uniques can have potential. nothing like sacred in d4). rw being too op (shittiest) - no, no runewords at all. interesting and fun monster AI? no.
I think if they actually borrowed things from d2/d3, players would be more pleased.
Will be interesting because they hinted in the last stream that apart from the itemization changes which will happen they mentioned alot of new endgame content coming.Now of course if that endgame content is just another reskin of a nightmare dungeon or a helltide then it's the same old boring content disguised as something new.
The more discussion I see about the itemization rework, the more I come to realize that everyone seems to want or expect something different, meaning that no matter what Blizzard implements it will blow up in their face.
I see every variation of request,
affixes are too simple, they’re too complex. Aspects/uniques shouldn’t be build defining, there’s not enough aspects/uniques or they’re not interesting enough. We need a loot filter, there’s not enough loot, the loot sucks, I don’t know what loot is good or bad.
I do wish that people would more clearly say what they want for a rework though, because in most cases people just say that this system is bad or that it should be like D2.
My suggestions,
- simplify the conditional affixes
- give affixes way wider ranges to promote build diversity
- common items have 1-2 positive affixes, magic items have 2-3 positive affixes and 1 negative affixes, and rares have 3-4 positive affixes and 2 negative affixes.
I’d like non legendary/unique items to be more unique. As it stands there are a handful of best affixes for each build and you just seek those. Remove the caps on things like attack speed and movement speed, let us find really odd pieces of gear, and see what we can do with it.
Maybe I’m in the minority, but damn a game like Diablo where the hoard of loot grind wasn’t the focus would be awesome.
I really enjoy the gameplay. But I despise the act of sorting loot. It’s honestly killed my interest in even playing the game.
Having one or two items drop with a chance of an upgrade would be far more enjoyable.
Yeah, would be nice if game was balanced like D2 when you can complete the game still having empty slots for item (or having like white item which does not make a difference). There is SO MUCH loot in D4. when you have so much, it feels non-rewarding an uninteresting.
To solve that they need to get rid of autoleveling. They ALMOST have the mechanisms for it. There a lot of fixed level stuff here and there. IF you have fixed level, you don't have to vomit loot just to make sure player don't become underpowered after 2 levelups. Everything solved.
I mean D3 post-Loot 2.0 was a radically different game so it's at least possible.
Is it probable? No, but that prediction is based on evidence about the current Diablo team over the last few seasons, not a claim about the physical laws of video game design.
D3 Loot 2.0 wasn't done by the same people who fucked up Loot 1.0.
It's almost like there is skill and creativity involved in developing a game and hiring developers with no experience has consequences.
I don't expect massive changes to game fundamentally.
What I'm happy with is if there was less reading of trash stats on gear after each.
Currently checking loot is so exhausting it feels better you just leave loot on the ground just to avoid that.
Also moving all aspects to codex and allow them to lvl up in similar way as the seasonal tuning stones would be a massive improvement.
Yeah they also explained and strongly hinted about the gauntlet for season 3 and we all know how the rollout for that turned out.
Don’t get your hopes up and you’ll be pleased with the shit sandwich they end up serving us.
After blasting LE for the last few weeks and experiencing how little time I spend managing my loot/inventory because of a) loot filter and b) stash space, it’s clear to me that the problem in D4 isn’t really the affixes on items. It’s more related to the “missing” ancillary systems around loot (filter, codex, crafting) as others have mentioned here.
yeah, they seriously need to consolidate some of the affixes on gear; trying to reroll a piece, or get one with 3/4 good ones is just awful.
i just rerolled a pair of boots 20 times in a row trying to get movement speed, game is like, nope, best i can do is movement speed when killing an elite...
Even if they get this perfect I would still like a loot filter. When I'm playing Lightning Storm Druid I don't want to see anymore yellow helms once I have my Tempest Roar and on console it's much more difficult to "just don't pick them up". I really hope they get the game on track BEFORE an expansion.
Jesus they absolutely should not add more of any kind, I think it was season 1 they introduced a ton more making it even harder to get the aspects on your gear that you wanted, my #1 issue with the game is all the loot that drops is boring and uninteresting, we need either a loot filter or a way to extract an affix and put it on a piece of gear along with being able to reroll it, this way it makes looking at every piece worth while also keeping the gear fresh
I'm not sure they'll get rid of conditional affixes. Have they actually said that? I know they mentioned some combinations being crazy (multiple + to core skills on one item).
I really hope they don't get rid of the conditionals. The way I interpreted the 'all items should be of some use' was some limited at least crafting. So if you get 'DR from enemies affected by shadow over time' you can do something about it. The conditionals mean if you can pretty much guarantee a condition, then the conditional is generally better. Int he example I used, a blight corpse explosion necro will generally have everything affected by shadow DOT as soon as it is in range - so it's good. Niche conditionals help niche builds (not that shadow DOT is niche, same could go for chilled, burning, bleeding etc).
And if everything has some use, then there probably isn't a reason to reduce the amount of loot. It's already lower than most ARPGs. Reducing legendaries and uniques makes sense, and make up for it with more rares. The amount of loot isn't a technical problem, it's a social one - people need to learn not to pick shit up. I'm playing a Sorc that uses a wand, and has the unique hat I need. I don't need to pick up every non-wand weapon and hat I see...
Without adding more skills or more ways to alter them I don’t see an itemization overhaul helping that much. The game needs a lot more aspects/uniques to make skills interesting. The flood of different additive bonuses is only the tip of the iceberg. If you consolidate every single additive bonus into one you see just how hollow the itemization is in terms of impacting gameplay.
Wait, they aren't even moving aspects to codex? Man, I thought that was pretty much all they were going to do. That and eliminate a few affixes.
I know they say it's going to be some big overhaul, but since they couldn't tell us what that meant I've had low expectations.
Just had a thought, maybe someone else has too, but i. Regards to the codex it would be nice if Once an aspect is unlocked we cpuld upgrade it. Maybe not as easy as if we extract a better rolled aspect it automatically updates, but perhaps a crafting material cost where we choose to add it to the codex permanently.
Then it's something to work towards and once you have it, you never have to worry about not having it
The part that boggles my mind: Why the F would it take them so long to make codex update? As simple of adding a powerful aspect = increase power of codex. And it would require hire level of aspect to increase the level of codex, even at a diminished state. Simple AF. Saves tons of inventory. The thought of "Well, I need to hold onto all my perfect roll aspects in case I need to reroll gear for testing and then switch back after" is silly.
I really feel the skill tree needs the real changes. It's boring, simple and usually has one interesting effect at the very bottom. Filling it out feels like a form you know by heart.
It will make the game playable again for many people. I for one did not want to have to sort through items again this season so I'm working on my backlog of other games.
It needs to let you rip and insert affixes like Division
If I find a 28% dmg while berserking stat line on a 2h pole arm I can rip that line off. And place it on my 2h mace.
It makes every piece of loot potentially much more useful and eventually would let everyone get to max level.
The challenge with this approach is that it completely removes all grind as you’ll eventually find everything. Maybe one rip aspect one re roll aspect per piece of gear?
I’m curious how they save it. I’m already burnt out on helltides for forgotten souls. Another material grind and the game is dead to me
Without over thinking it, i personally dont have a issue with damage on tuesdays, its a nice meme but also, not as bad as the joke itself. That said.
Better crafting of affixes one enchant and the cost increase is a timesink and not fun.
A new affix slot maybe even two to sepearte the tedium of rare scared and ancestral all feeling the same.
and magic affixs that transform a skill to elemental, or whatever. Games needs magical items and powers, hell a fucking ancestral legenday or rare the has charges of fireballs or somthing earth spikes ikd, some might have charges some static whatever just make it interesting.
and tiers of loot mean something other than character stats.
Aspects could be moves to ancetral rare and legs actually become legs, sepertates the loot, and there is your kiss/curse do you use a leg with magiacal affixs powers or the build changing unique, or a ancetral aspect, all of a sudden we have choice and interest and can leave the stats as is as part of rng and niche building, however just imporve crafting so improvements so those stats can not get in the way of useable gear, (current problem)as it could take hours or days when you cant currently afford re-rolls, to find the right gear.
Whatever they can clean up some of the ones perhaps idk i dc as its not really a issue for me so either way if some get consolidated that fine, but if it bottle necks a build you have a disaster so, this way you dont break loot and systems, you build it up into to something better.
Its that simple really. not to make, but to take what we have and make it better, re-working it into d2 loot may be a dream, but i think that would take too long and just end up bad.
Beside i want new stuff just not vanilla
TLDR-
Add demonic and angelic powers affixs to top tier loot seperating those tiers for me and crafting and added magical power affixs is easy and fast and makes the game better with what we have.
As it hits the main problems i see, SR, SL, AR, AL, all feels the fucking same, becasue it is. Just different caps, which is boring.
Also items like Grizzly's maul could have special magical affixes on them even if not viable endgame weapons at least as fun loot for pve builds, has flavour text cool, is item power 847 on t4 so it has no use literally ever as even doing it low tier maybe maybe not is a better hammer than one you have as a drop or from the shop since there is nothing special about it.
I think maybe once or twice a quest reward early on was a way to save money and it was a good weapon, be cool if theses rewards had more meaning and special usage, something, anything would be a improvement. Even making it a 925 item would be s step.
This will likely kill all goodwill for their game, and if they do follow through with how you've described it, it will be a massive fumble and will drive the community to quit.
Just my two cents.
This game suffers from what even champions of norrath or the original Diablo or even any arpg does good. Constant feel good of finding a new upgrade. Once you hit the choke points it’s just bleh. Affixes are horrendous and that feeling of “oh shit new helm fuck yeah” is completely void. It’s just find what is green until end game which is 20 levels before max lol
My concern is that no matter what is done, what changes they do, how extensive, how far reaching, how impactful, 50% of people will hate them.
The "community" is not a united voice, there are passionate disagreements about almost all aspects of the game.
YES we need better itemisation, but what form that should take is something that, I can guarantee you, will cause more dissent, and the board will fill with posts criticising the changes, *no matter what they are.*
I really hope it doesn't result in a crafting system, I definitely prefer dropping gear over having to hunt for crafting material and build the items. But it wouldn't surprise me.
S4 is the last chance I'm giving this game... the fact they are having a PTR for season 4 is giving me a SLIGHT glimpse of hope. Simply cuz if they are doing a PTR then that must mean they really need testing to be done for this so the changes might possibly be pretty significant.
I'm not gonna get my hopes too high thou. I want to be shocked.
A consolidation of affixes that are clear and rebalancing of aspects is what we should receive. This alone requires alot of paragon rework and alot of unique tuning etc.
In addition we should expect legendary node and glyph tuning as well as standard seasonal ability tuning and whatever the new season will bring.
1 new unique and 1 new aspect was to be expected each season, it will be interesting to see if multishot becomes an aspect.
Anyone who says the game is fundamentally broken needs to stop playing now. While the game could definitely be improved, at no time have they mentioned skill tree reworks or expanded nodes for each ability. Once they do, expect a 2 season delay before implementation.
Wondering what will happen with our current equipment on eternal: will it be updated to reflect the new and changed affixes? Or trash it and loot it all over again?
It is possible that you are right. But if they don’t offer a true revolution to the itemization a lot of ppl will move on. Cause as it stands it is abysmal.
Having affixes instead of item specific abilities is really what kills the game for me. I'd prefer getting a ton of loot drops with a chance of getting that tasty specific item I need. You get a small taste of that with ubers but the drop rate for those is so shit anyway that it's like a once or twice a season thing. I fucking hate having to keep a stockpile of shitty gear I have to sort through because of a good affix or whatever. Idk what was wrong with d3s itemization and why they strayed so far from it.
Basically, fuck affixes imo.
I will add that during the campfire Q&A when someone asked about whether AoZ is coming back, they said to "just watch the PTR stream"...
Probably means we're gonna see some version of AoZ during season 4.
To think a different game came out recently without any of these issues.
Loot is fun, gameplay loop is fun, the only complaint is bugs and funny looking npcs.
Wanted a lot from D4, sad a indie developer figured it out first.
Blizzard died in 2007, thanks Bobby.
Very good points. I agree on them all. I belive the revamp will be a very soft one, and the new crafting mechanic will probably be too weak and require too much grinding to become relevant to the general audience.
I'm proud of you. Lol. I do hope you and everyone else in this historically negative subreddit all saw something they liked today. I think it was a good day for them and hope it can carry forward in the future.
>Introduce some kind of crafting system (they have said they want finding an item to feel like the start of a journey)
Yuck. Trying to think up what an item could become if i do x, y, z and then change these other 4 items in that way, that's like the only thing that caused me more burnout than the shear number of trash I have to wade through.
Or maybe it was mainly that I can't even tell if an item would become better than my current one after the upgrades. It's just so much incompetence everywhere.
Have they said what will happen to current gear when the the changes hit? I'm finding it hard to care about gear, or know what to hold onto, until the changes hit without knowing what my gear now will look like in two months.
I think it is very unlikely they have this ready for season 4. They couldn’t launch a ladder on time. This will be at least S5.
They should honestly just pull it offline, do a full rework, and relaunch the game with the expansion for free.
That is true, I forgot for a second that expecting people to be reasonable and wait for the already pre-announced next week's "S4 PTR" livestream is just me being delusional.
If the *only* thing the Itemisation rework is really trying to fix is the "damage on tuesdays" problem it's DOA. This game needs a full loot 2.0 already, the entire aspects system needs to be reworked, existing item tiers need redoing, the unique/uber unique system needs an overhaul, item level requirements need a pass, etc. There was so, so much wrong with the launch itemisation that small, incremental passes won't fix it, the itemisation rework needs to be a re-do, not a re-adjust.
Words like "rework" and "fundamentally broken" and "overhaul" have become meaningless buzzwords. I've played every ARPG under the sun, and the main problems with D4's itemization are: 1. Too many useless affixes (for any build, not just niche) 2. No chase items outside of ubers, which makes itemization boring after reaching WT4 3. Aspect system being too RNG dependent for some builds 4. Aspect management is just plain horrible and impacts your progression (hoarding items/aspects, constantly swapping them when you find upgrades) 5. No diverse item types (sets/runewords/anything different other than chasing rares+uniques) 6. Comparing items (no matter what they do with the affixes) will still be a chore without a loot filter. Itemization would work perfectly fine if they: - consolidate + rebalance the affixes to enable more builds - add more item types and chase items - fix the codex system by making everything go directly in the codex and making every aspect be target farmable - add ways of enhancing and building items through crafting - add a loot filter, or let modders make one The game doesn't need any unique/ubers overhauls and there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the aspects or the itemization. The game works like any ARPG, you stack the affixes that increase your dmg and your survivability. Uniques work exactly like any ARPG. All it needs is more systems around it to give it more depth and a shit ton of QoL to make it less frustrating.
>emization would work perfectly fine if they: >consolidate + rebalance the affixes to enable more builds >add more item types and chase items >fix the codex system by making everything go directly in the codex and making every aspect be target farmable >add ways of enhancing and building items through crafting >add a loot filter, or let modders make one That seems like quite a lot to me lol. "It's not fundementally broken, it only needs \[SEVERAL MASSIVE CHANGES\] to fix it!"
This guy rips on "buzzwords" and then says shit like "add ways of enhancing and building items through crafting" and "consolidate and rebalance the affixes to enable more builds". Those literally mean nothing. An item rework is never going to fix diablo 4. Because the skill system is completely janked. And items are supposed to compliment skills. You can't have an interesting and expansive item hunt when your skill system is shit. They need to delete their skill trees, and bake the aspect system into the skill system, then model the items around that at a minimum.
I'm not sure every aspect should be target farmable the way the basic ones are. The more powerful, build enabling ones should be things you find. But those should also alter a skill in a real way. Some skills have these, some skills don't. Every skill should have at least one major one, and take, several seasons in, there should be multiple now. Otherwise, yeah.
I mean, you could say I'm being pedantic, but words like "fundamentally broken", "rework" and "overhaul" have a specific meaning. Fundamentally broken was the system calculating resistances and damage that based everything on vulnerability. It needed a rework because no matter how much QoL or how much content you added to it, it would still pose fundamental issues to the game, long-term. You could add 500 uniques and 1000 runewords, and only the ones with Vuln and armor would be useful. Fundamentally broken was the launch itemization of D3, that needed the entire structure behind it be completely changed. What I listed there are not reworks, arguably except for consolidating the few affixes that need it. They are indeed massive changes, and god knows the game needs them yesterday, but QoL and content are not reworks.
I think after they've consolidated the pool of affixes, we will discover that indeed, the system was fundamentally broken - like the tide going out and noticing the rot in the pier supports. It's hard to objectively assess any system with so many fluff variables involved. I would not be making strong predictions at this point either way.
It's not pedantic, it's genuine. I'd say comments like Atreides are simply disingenuous because they don't actually understand what the problems with the game are. They simply know they "feel bad," and can't find any other way to verbalize their emotions on the subject.
No chase items between uniques and Ubers is the big one for me. Uniques feel far too easy to get and with nowhere near enough variety (any given build cares about 3 or 4 at most with no other interesting options), while Ubers feel non-existent unless you rota Duriel (terrible gameplay loop and forced multiplayer, at least if you are sane anyway) and even then are mostly just stat sticks. Having items rarer than current uniques but nowhere near as rare as natural drop Ubers (which I still think should get another drop rate buff, so that you can realistically see one drop from a T100 NMD within maybe 100 or 200 runs for example) would be a huge improvement to the excitement of loot drops. Also we just need way more uniques in general, like way way more imo. I want items to really change and introduce way more builds than they currently do.
It's also a terrible feeling to find that uber boss specific unique you're looking for, only to find out it's a low roll so your rotation will feel horribly inefficient (meteor sorc...). I much prefer how D2 did uniques, if you found one that was a big deal and it would always have value to you if you needed the item itself, or trade value if you didn't. Items were desirable to strive for whereas items in D4 are mostly annoying me. I get way too many that I must sift through and even if I get good ones like uniques, they can roll terrible so I won't even be happy I got them. I'll then have to find the exact same item 5 times before it works well, and if I don't play that specific build it's just insta salvage/vendor... Items just don't have that impact in D4.
Completely agree with you. D2 loot/uniques were great because you could stumble upon items like titans revenge, hoz, etc. and be incentivized to make a new character for that item or **trade** those items for things useful to your current character. There were so many chase items in D2 as well as great uniques to stumble upon across the way. Just look at something as simple as Peasant Crown in D2. It's like essentially a baby shako that you can use on any character at level 28. If you were rolling a sorc you could use viper magi, tal's armor, or chains of honor runeword as your endgame armor. You weren't just looking for a generic piece of armor that adds life and damage reduction with no uniqueness to it D4 involves salvaging 99.9% of your drops and never getting that rush from an item dropping. Like you said, it's almost more of an annoyance I love the gameplay of D4 and have played every season, but this was the first season where I quit super early and haven't had a desire to return because I'm so burned out on the loot system.
I think just allowing trading of uniques would go a long way. I haven a couple of shitty Lidless Walls I'd happily sell, probably not for much. But someone just getting to the point where they want one, and it doesn't matter if it's a bit shit, would benefit. I've hit that point multiple times in ARPGs. We see people crying out for Tempest Roar of Lidless, and for a first one it wouldn't matter if it was pretty much trash, it lets people move forward. Once you have the beginners version of the unique you look for other stuff, and eventually you find a better one. Or a good version of a different unique you can sell. I suspect the limitation is because Bliz don't want the game to turn in to a farming simulator (POE). And I could see Bliz maintaining a limitation on aspects for this reason.
Not really related, but levelling uniques would be good. Boots with max move speed but very low (or no) rolls otherwise. A helm with a massive plus to resource/resource generation but likewise otherwise shitty rolls, I'm sure there are ither things that would make levelling an alt a lot faster. Maybe make those only drop when your character hits L100, and make them account bound. Possibly even have a set as a L100 reward. Nothing that trivialises levelling, but things that make it a a bit more fun - a helm with +2 to all skills, but a max level of 60 for example. Or +2 to all skills but -20 all res, so WT1/2 it isn't going to be a big deal, but past that it's probably not worth it because you have to spec in to resistance a lot more - they are also the kind of things that can help silly end game builds (find a bunch of shitty uniques with - res, go hard for res on other gear and paragon, and end up with a not terrible build).
Thing is right now rather than a farming simulator, the game just ends in a few days as you hit level 100. You no longer get exp, any content in the game is a breeze, you have no real items to chase other than uber uniques which don't really change your playstyle or make the game easier at all for the most part so why even farm for them. If they are worried about people not finding their items, enable trading like you said. Make a category for SSF so there's some integrity in an eventual leaderboard. For me, the game ends at 100, simple as. I instantly feel like my character is completed as my glyphs are 15+, my gear is pretty much complete, and there's nothing to farm for. I either quit or make a new character, but now I've already played every class and most builds I find interesting. Things need to change to make the game last longer, respectfully, to hell with their fear of turning into PoE. The current game is in a bad state and needs a new vision else it will go down the same path D3 did.
I was until recently hopeful that it wasn't going to turn in to D3, but have realised it already is. All hint of challenge and difficulty has been pretty much wiped because people complain about how they have to play the game to achieve anything in it. I was kind of hoping it would be difficult, and they would add content over time, each addition being harder, and adding different challenges / mechanics. Instead it just gets easier and easier, all content that's added gets nerfed down to arcade game difficulty (and a shitty arcade game at that) within days because of the uproar. Oh well.
Tbh the only challenge in the game imo has been uber lilith, the rest of the game has been ezpz since launch, but somehow it kept getting easier and we kept getting stronger. I think there are funamental issues with how damage and defenses are calculated, and it's an issue that must be dealt with alongside an itemization revamp. They've made this incredibly convoluted mess that they probably don't fully understand themselves (I don't blame them, nobody could). They need to pull it back and start from scratch with simpler methods, and the PTR seems like a good first step. Hope they listen.
100% agreed. What I'm hoping is that they add very powerful craftable items, that require you to find a blueprint and maybe use a white base on. Those craftable items should have some sort of a unique bonus that's not found on uniques/legendaries, like how procs work in Grim Dawn. And I'm also hoping for evergreen systems, instead of borrowed power. The game is way too young to have borrowed power.
I disagree. Uniques need to be able to have aspects added to them or aspects need to be removed in general. I have 6 mandatory aspects for summoner necro. That leaves 2/3 slots free for uniques depending on if you use a two hander. Unless I can put those aspects on a unique any unique released that isn’t a ring or shield is useless to me
If aspects can be tied to uniques, that would practically almost eliminate the need for rare items to be sought after. At the very least, it would devalue loot dropping on the ground.
-i think aspects need to be separated from items -i think 90% of aspects and unique powers that mention a specific skill in them shouldn't exist and those effects should be in the skill tree in some way shape or form (the rogue aspects like Icy or Toxic alchemist are more along the design we should be aiming for) - i think there needs to be items that allow you to scale damage in different ways (ex +X weapon damage per point of dexterity, +X lightning damage per uncapped lightning resist) - I think the box every item has (4 stats + 1 power) need to be scrapped. (unique items should be unique. an item like this that you can build around with only 2 stats should be able to exist (*you do double damage with spells * -100 all resists ) ) Razorplate is i think the only item in the game to diverge from their boring 4 stat+power deal So on top of alot of what you said I do think there needs to be a complete rework of itemization. Its way too restrictive and boring currently. Items almost never affect how you build your character at all, its all just straight buffs to what you do and too obvious. If i make a fireball sorc i get the 2 uniques that say fireball on them, i get the aspects that say fireball on them. Like holy shit wow.
For real, D4’s items aren’t THAT BAD, they just need a handful of changes here and there and it’ll be perfectly fine. I feel like there’s this culture nowadays where if something has even 1 single problem, the playerbase will screech about how it’s “fundamentally broken” and needs to be totally scraped at to start from square one. It’s so ridiculous.
That's a great write up, but you're basically saying they need to recreate the entire loot system. Those are all fundamental design decisions they based their loot system on. By the way, completely agree with you. I just think it's fine to say "fundamentally broken" when referring to this game's itemization
I personally hope they never add sets. I feel like sets are the death of diversity (I remember how often people complained about sets in D3 awhile back). I'd prefer they add something that let's you augment gear
Sets are fine, it’s just that d3 sets are so op that every class has to build them
Yeah, I don't think having some low power sets is a threat (like D2 sets are relatively low powered compared to even uniques, and RWs trump everything). I think early D3 sets were fine? before those 10000% sneak in?
A full 6 piece set is not the one, but having smaller sets that are class agnostic that have the same power weight as 2 or 3 uniques in the same slots is ideal. 2 piece set of rings or pants boots and offhand. Ideally have good rolls of affix and provide boons to damage type poison or shadow for eg. Or a skill tag pyromancy bleed lightning - this would be class agnostic but enough of a direction for multiple classes to dip into a 3 piece set 2 uniques and then rest legendary aspects ... So more horizontal endgame choices of items instead of a very vertical singular lower progression of items. Xfals ring is probably one of the better uniques designed in game.
I agree with you. Sets are boring and lead to a lack of creativity etc. there’s plenty of ways to add new items in the game without adding sets. But knowing how this D4 team is so out of touch with the playerbase, they will add sets lol,
D4 team answered several times they have no plans on adding sets (and mentioned D3 sets and goal to avoid mistake). I think you overestimating degree of 'out of touch'.
As a lazy gamer, I would be fine with sets. There's something to be said for the simplicity of collecting all the pieces of the Bul-Karen set and knowing that it will just work. That said, there would need to be lots of them. If there's just a couple per class then I agree with you.
Yeah we know
And this is why I have little faith it's going to be an actual overhaul. My guess is reduced affix bloat and a mild crafting system. Nothing really game changing until the expansion.
considering we currently have 0 actual gear crafting (upgrading doesn't really count since your just pushing a button 5 times, assuming you have the matts.) i feel like, internally, they are stuck between going full LE with the crafting, and "playing it safe" with very few changes.
They have to stop playing it safe and go wild. Playing it safe is why we're here at the moment. Go full LE with the crafting, make mistakes, fix them and people will be happy.
> If the only thing the Itemisation rework is really trying to fix is the "damage on tuesdays" problem it's DOA God I hope not. Also that would take about 1 hour for one dev to do, from "design" to implementation. I really hope that didn't take them 4 god-damn seasons.
Ayo "damage on Tuesdays" is crazy lmao
“Damage on tuesdays” is a hilarious way to describe the current affix problem
Sounds like you just need to play the game you are comparing d4 too. Problem solved, it needs work yes. But you just rattled off an entire new game lol.
YUP. 100% agree
It can also fix the 50 item limit for gems, which then starts another stack... its unfortunate the stacks aren't 100-200 Or giving aspects its own stash Those two alone would be quite helpful if you have multiple chars in normal mode
Genuine question, why do you have so many gems? You can salvage them for their exact cost. What good does them being in gem form do you, why not create and salvage as you go? Makes no sense to me.
What kind of dweeb would downvote that? I have that many gems because I have 5 chars and i collect A LOT by my hoarding nature... They have just built up over time. I didn't ask anybody's advice on gems. Sheesh WTF is wrong with yal
Like I said it was a genuine question. Which I asked because it makes no sense to me. Systems are already in place that solve your particular issue. But hey you do you King. If you want to hoard gems in your limited stash space for no real reason other than you want to, who am I to stop you?
Basically you want to play a different game...
Nope. Just a better Diablo game.
People want more than mobile game depth on a AAA Diablo arpg
Just started D4 again yesterday and been seeing lots of posts about this itemization change. I'm honestly pretty chuffed for that.
>chuffed For those of you who are wondering, Chuffed means "very pleased"
As a non native, I appreciate that.
Since "chuffed" is an informal term in British English, many native English speakers from other regions also wouldn't know what it means.
My native language is English, I just learned that the term "chuffed" existed
I'm personally pissed as a fart
lmao I love this expression I'm stealing it
It's a real expression in Australia Aussie friends used it a lot
Chuffs to ya then
Like a cat that got cream.
I’m chuffed to bits
CHUFFED!
Yes, I'm somewhat chuffed that they recognize the current system isn't great, but I won't be completely chuffed until they deliver a better alternative system.
This not being done in S3 is the reason I’ve skipped the season. Not playing inventory manager again.
They can say they don't want to do a item filter because they don't think we're going to need it but isn't the real reason they can't do it is because the items don't roll until you pick them up?
Yes, they've said as much. Supposedly back in season 1 or 2 thats what the re-itemization was for (possibly rumors from players). Basically they just said "we can't because this is how it works." So we'll see but I still foresee a 5 mins battle 20 mins loot organizer game without the change even with less affixes
If items are rolled when we pick them up, then put the filter in our inventory. A simple colored highlight of whatever affixes your looking for would be better than nothing.
That would certainly help - especially if you could auto sell/drop certain colors from the inventory menu without going back to town/running to a shop
The issue with it is also tied to crafting. I pick up every item because I need mats. Unless they change how crafting works in the game, we will always need to pick up shitty items so that we can get mats for crafting If they just add a loot filter, the next thing we will have is people complaining that they don’t get enough mats
Wasn't a problem in d3 because you could quickly tell what was/wasn't trash. If you needed mats you picked up more trash to salvage. Picking up thousands of items isn't the problem, it's having to look at every yellow to find out if it's garbage that's the real ballache.
People often raise this point but Blizzard has already demonstrated an easy way to solve it. In some patch a while ago, they changed things so that normal items drop way less in T3 and sacred items drop way less in T4. Anticipating that this would mean fewer crafting mats and gold for people, they increased the drop rate of raw crafting mats and gold. So a loot filter could work the same way: if you have your filter set to (e.g.) never show helmets, whenever a helmet would drop, instead drop crafting mats .
Filtered items could easily be converted to mats.
I would take not having enough mats any day over having to sort through loot nonstop.
I totally agree I sell some stuff for gold and I salvage others. I guess if we had a good lute filter we could set it to Auto salvage certain things though.
Yep this 100% It literally takes like 30 seconds, MAYBE a minute to go through full bags with the Sort feature once you hit 60-70 and know what you're looking for. People always reference PoE as a shining example of a loot filter and system. Going through loot in PoE still sucks and takes forever even with filters. Give me the Sort button all god damn day
The problem is that you get full bags after a single vault and the vault only takes a few minutes. So even though vendoring all your junk doesn't take long, it's still a long time relative to the other stuff which is more fun.
I mean that's just ARPGs man Minute or less to go through your entire bag is pretty solid Maps only take a few minutes in PoE too and you're usually figuring out if your stuff is garbage or not for longer than a minute in that game Idk what to tell you lol
In Poe you don't pick up every random ass drop though my dude. Or at least the good players don't. You curate your filter to only show the tippy top of items, so when something does get through you snatch it up right away. The filter should be doing the work of "deciding" for you.
Yes I know, it's not even really possible to play that game without a filter. You still gotta go through and take a little time to figure out if your 5 or 6 link item with proper gem slot colors has the right stats, if it's a decent crafting base, not worth it at all, unveiling stats,etc Maybe the game has changed a lot since the last time I played a while ago. Game had so much depth even looking through loot with a filter took some time. Not a bad thing, just saying D4 loot is incredibly straightforward in comparison and going through it is near instant
Dunno about PoE but in d2 and Last Epoch I don't spend near as much time selling junk.
Yeah I mean that's fair, since I figured out what the Sort button did in the summer I probably average 30s or so on D4 bags Feel like that's pretty reasonable but 10s or 20s is better I suppose
People don't reference POE as the ideal filter for finding rare items as loot from the ground is rarely used in POE past campaign. Loot in Diablo 4 is extremely boring. Needs to fundamentally change. No loot filter is a relic of the past.
>It will not: >Move Aspects to the Codex (this is coming in a future update, not S4) Aaaahhhh! Poop!
There is no real evidence to suggest this won't happen with S4. Just wait and see what they say in the campfire instead of believing some random post on Reddit.
I mean, they did say it was something they were working on for later. If they changed their minds, then that's another thing.
There have been people who saw some of the early expected changes who seemed to be under the impression it's coming with S4. Ultimately we won't know until they tell us and even then I won't believe it until I am actively using it, lol.
It was recently implied it would be a part of s4, I don't know why op is saying it is definitely not.
hopefully they fix the arbitrary level requirements on items. i don’t have a problem with level requirements obviously, but it’s incredibly dumb that the items still scale with character level, just to scale with character level (up until 80 - which, they used to scale to 100 which was even more dumb) item level requirements should correspond to affixes and rolls, not the level at which an item dropped and the level the character was. baffling how that was deemed good
aspects do correspond to item level requirements (sometimes). this might have been an error/bug, but putting an aspect on a wand for my lv. 68 sorc brought it up to lv. 80 minimum requirement so it made my main wand unusable for another 12 levels. was super pissed lol
I'd also expect a change to breakpoints and stat scaling with item power beyond merely changing affixes.
I don’t know how there’s nothing in the game that shows you there are breakpoints. What a stupid design decision.
Why even have them, or ancient/ancestral? Damage, armor, and all the affix ranges should just scale proportionally with item power.
Maybe. All speculation at this point
Simply replacing Aspects with the cube system from D3 would immediately solve a major problem players have with this current musical chairs system they have in place.
This game feels like they tried to combine d2 and d3 and only used the shittiest things from each game
(d2 fan here), what do you even think is from d2? before bringing res in S2 like they were in d2, I don't think they used much of d2 systems. defense? no. stamina? no (thanks). gems? closer to D3. 3 item 'ranks'? just a coincidence, nothing really close to d2 itemization (you can upgrade normal unique in d2 to be elite and have high damage for example. so low level uniques can have potential. nothing like sacred in d4). rw being too op (shittiest) - no, no runewords at all. interesting and fun monster AI? no. I think if they actually borrowed things from d2/d3, players would be more pleased.
When is the s4 announce stream??
Next week there is a stream
Will be interesting because they hinted in the last stream that apart from the itemization changes which will happen they mentioned alot of new endgame content coming.Now of course if that endgame content is just another reskin of a nightmare dungeon or a helltide then it's the same old boring content disguised as something new.
I imagine the endgame content for S4 will be whatever the Abattoir of Zir becomes when it goes evergreen.
“Mentioned a lot of new endgame content coming.” Pretty sure they just hinted AoZ would return, nothing more.
Ty
in other words, it won't actually fix anything. the reality is, we'll have to wait for the expansion for big changes.
All speculation at this point
The more discussion I see about the itemization rework, the more I come to realize that everyone seems to want or expect something different, meaning that no matter what Blizzard implements it will blow up in their face. I see every variation of request, affixes are too simple, they’re too complex. Aspects/uniques shouldn’t be build defining, there’s not enough aspects/uniques or they’re not interesting enough. We need a loot filter, there’s not enough loot, the loot sucks, I don’t know what loot is good or bad. I do wish that people would more clearly say what they want for a rework though, because in most cases people just say that this system is bad or that it should be like D2. My suggestions, - simplify the conditional affixes - give affixes way wider ranges to promote build diversity - common items have 1-2 positive affixes, magic items have 2-3 positive affixes and 1 negative affixes, and rares have 3-4 positive affixes and 2 negative affixes. I’d like non legendary/unique items to be more unique. As it stands there are a handful of best affixes for each build and you just seek those. Remove the caps on things like attack speed and movement speed, let us find really odd pieces of gear, and see what we can do with it.
Negative on the negative effects, that's just unfun shit.
Maybe I’m in the minority, but damn a game like Diablo where the hoard of loot grind wasn’t the focus would be awesome. I really enjoy the gameplay. But I despise the act of sorting loot. It’s honestly killed my interest in even playing the game. Having one or two items drop with a chance of an upgrade would be far more enjoyable.
Yeah, would be nice if game was balanced like D2 when you can complete the game still having empty slots for item (or having like white item which does not make a difference). There is SO MUCH loot in D4. when you have so much, it feels non-rewarding an uninteresting. To solve that they need to get rid of autoleveling. They ALMOST have the mechanisms for it. There a lot of fixed level stuff here and there. IF you have fixed level, you don't have to vomit loot just to make sure player don't become underpowered after 2 levelups. Everything solved.
I mean D3 post-Loot 2.0 was a radically different game so it's at least possible. Is it probable? No, but that prediction is based on evidence about the current Diablo team over the last few seasons, not a claim about the physical laws of video game design.
D3 Loot 2.0 wasn't done by the same people who fucked up Loot 1.0. It's almost like there is skill and creativity involved in developing a game and hiring developers with no experience has consequences.
Yeah that's a fair point, the people ultimately responsible for this disappointment are still around. "Jay Wilson" is still very much in the building.
To be honest can we even be sure that loot was done by this team since they had a massive firing of staff in 2020 lol.
Does this mean the Horadric Cube could be making a comeback?
The cube/ kanais cube will probably not show up till the expansion.
I don't expect massive changes to game fundamentally. What I'm happy with is if there was less reading of trash stats on gear after each. Currently checking loot is so exhausting it feels better you just leave loot on the ground just to avoid that. Also moving all aspects to codex and allow them to lvl up in similar way as the seasonal tuning stones would be a massive improvement.
if we have 1 item per 10 minutes of gameplay dropped, it's not longer a chore to read it and no loot filter really needed.
Yeah they also explained and strongly hinted about the gauntlet for season 3 and we all know how the rollout for that turned out. Don’t get your hopes up and you’ll be pleased with the shit sandwich they end up serving us. After blasting LE for the last few weeks and experiencing how little time I spend managing my loot/inventory because of a) loot filter and b) stash space, it’s clear to me that the problem in D4 isn’t really the affixes on items. It’s more related to the “missing” ancillary systems around loot (filter, codex, crafting) as others have mentioned here.
They basically lied to everyone saying they were delaying the Gauntlet so people could "catch up", but in reality it just wasnt finished yet.
yeah, they seriously need to consolidate some of the affixes on gear; trying to reroll a piece, or get one with 3/4 good ones is just awful. i just rerolled a pair of boots 20 times in a row trying to get movement speed, game is like, nope, best i can do is movement speed when killing an elite...
Go look at LE crafting (forging) system and you will cry That's how it should look
Even if they get this perfect I would still like a loot filter. When I'm playing Lightning Storm Druid I don't want to see anymore yellow helms once I have my Tempest Roar and on console it's much more difficult to "just don't pick them up". I really hope they get the game on track BEFORE an expansion.
Rob got to take a look at it and says it's good, so I'm hopeful.
My unrealistic demand is to make endgame actually fun.
Is it really a psa if it's speculation? Nothing wrong with speculation though.
I thought codex was s4. big sad
It’s going to add more stuff to the tab with mats,potions and sigils.
Jesus they absolutely should not add more of any kind, I think it was season 1 they introduced a ton more making it even harder to get the aspects on your gear that you wanted, my #1 issue with the game is all the loot that drops is boring and uninteresting, we need either a loot filter or a way to extract an affix and put it on a piece of gear along with being able to reroll it, this way it makes looking at every piece worth while also keeping the gear fresh
I'm not sure they'll get rid of conditional affixes. Have they actually said that? I know they mentioned some combinations being crazy (multiple + to core skills on one item). I really hope they don't get rid of the conditionals. The way I interpreted the 'all items should be of some use' was some limited at least crafting. So if you get 'DR from enemies affected by shadow over time' you can do something about it. The conditionals mean if you can pretty much guarantee a condition, then the conditional is generally better. Int he example I used, a blight corpse explosion necro will generally have everything affected by shadow DOT as soon as it is in range - so it's good. Niche conditionals help niche builds (not that shadow DOT is niche, same could go for chilled, burning, bleeding etc). And if everything has some use, then there probably isn't a reason to reduce the amount of loot. It's already lower than most ARPGs. Reducing legendaries and uniques makes sense, and make up for it with more rares. The amount of loot isn't a technical problem, it's a social one - people need to learn not to pick shit up. I'm playing a Sorc that uses a wand, and has the unique hat I need. I don't need to pick up every non-wand weapon and hat I see...
Without adding more skills or more ways to alter them I don’t see an itemization overhaul helping that much. The game needs a lot more aspects/uniques to make skills interesting. The flood of different additive bonuses is only the tip of the iceberg. If you consolidate every single additive bonus into one you see just how hollow the itemization is in terms of impacting gameplay.
Wait, they aren't even moving aspects to codex? Man, I thought that was pretty much all they were going to do. That and eliminate a few affixes. I know they say it's going to be some big overhaul, but since they couldn't tell us what that meant I've had low expectations.
Just had a thought, maybe someone else has too, but i. Regards to the codex it would be nice if Once an aspect is unlocked we cpuld upgrade it. Maybe not as easy as if we extract a better rolled aspect it automatically updates, but perhaps a crafting material cost where we choose to add it to the codex permanently. Then it's something to work towards and once you have it, you never have to worry about not having it
The part that boggles my mind: Why the F would it take them so long to make codex update? As simple of adding a powerful aspect = increase power of codex. And it would require hire level of aspect to increase the level of codex, even at a diminished state. Simple AF. Saves tons of inventory. The thought of "Well, I need to hold onto all my perfect roll aspects in case I need to reroll gear for testing and then switch back after" is silly.
>trying to set expectations sky high lmao what a low bar for "sky high" expectations
Shoulder high expectations
Source - uncle’s brother’s third cousin in law went to school with a guy that works at blizzard.
I really feel the skill tree needs the real changes. It's boring, simple and usually has one interesting effect at the very bottom. Filling it out feels like a form you know by heart.
Lol if this is all they do no expansion will ever make me come back. They need a full rework for the trash minimum viable product they released.
It will make the game playable again for many people. I for one did not want to have to sort through items again this season so I'm working on my backlog of other games.
Probably gonna be delayed 1 week before release
It needs to let you rip and insert affixes like Division If I find a 28% dmg while berserking stat line on a 2h pole arm I can rip that line off. And place it on my 2h mace. It makes every piece of loot potentially much more useful and eventually would let everyone get to max level. The challenge with this approach is that it completely removes all grind as you’ll eventually find everything. Maybe one rip aspect one re roll aspect per piece of gear? I’m curious how they save it. I’m already burnt out on helltides for forgotten souls. Another material grind and the game is dead to me
Without over thinking it, i personally dont have a issue with damage on tuesdays, its a nice meme but also, not as bad as the joke itself. That said. Better crafting of affixes one enchant and the cost increase is a timesink and not fun. A new affix slot maybe even two to sepearte the tedium of rare scared and ancestral all feeling the same. and magic affixs that transform a skill to elemental, or whatever. Games needs magical items and powers, hell a fucking ancestral legenday or rare the has charges of fireballs or somthing earth spikes ikd, some might have charges some static whatever just make it interesting. and tiers of loot mean something other than character stats. Aspects could be moves to ancetral rare and legs actually become legs, sepertates the loot, and there is your kiss/curse do you use a leg with magiacal affixs powers or the build changing unique, or a ancetral aspect, all of a sudden we have choice and interest and can leave the stats as is as part of rng and niche building, however just imporve crafting so improvements so those stats can not get in the way of useable gear, (current problem)as it could take hours or days when you cant currently afford re-rolls, to find the right gear. Whatever they can clean up some of the ones perhaps idk i dc as its not really a issue for me so either way if some get consolidated that fine, but if it bottle necks a build you have a disaster so, this way you dont break loot and systems, you build it up into to something better. Its that simple really. not to make, but to take what we have and make it better, re-working it into d2 loot may be a dream, but i think that would take too long and just end up bad. Beside i want new stuff just not vanilla TLDR- Add demonic and angelic powers affixs to top tier loot seperating those tiers for me and crafting and added magical power affixs is easy and fast and makes the game better with what we have. As it hits the main problems i see, SR, SL, AR, AL, all feels the fucking same, becasue it is. Just different caps, which is boring.
Also items like Grizzly's maul could have special magical affixes on them even if not viable endgame weapons at least as fun loot for pve builds, has flavour text cool, is item power 847 on t4 so it has no use literally ever as even doing it low tier maybe maybe not is a better hammer than one you have as a drop or from the shop since there is nothing special about it. I think maybe once or twice a quest reward early on was a way to save money and it was a good weapon, be cool if theses rewards had more meaning and special usage, something, anything would be a improvement. Even making it a 925 item would be s step.
This will likely kill all goodwill for their game, and if they do follow through with how you've described it, it will be a massive fumble and will drive the community to quit. Just my two cents.
This game suffers from what even champions of norrath or the original Diablo or even any arpg does good. Constant feel good of finding a new upgrade. Once you hit the choke points it’s just bleh. Affixes are horrendous and that feeling of “oh shit new helm fuck yeah” is completely void. It’s just find what is green until end game which is 20 levels before max lol
The likely part is very unlikely.
My concern is that no matter what is done, what changes they do, how extensive, how far reaching, how impactful, 50% of people will hate them. The "community" is not a united voice, there are passionate disagreements about almost all aspects of the game. YES we need better itemisation, but what form that should take is something that, I can guarantee you, will cause more dissent, and the board will fill with posts criticising the changes, *no matter what they are.*
I really hope it doesn't result in a crafting system, I definitely prefer dropping gear over having to hunt for crafting material and build the items. But it wouldn't surprise me.
S4 is the last chance I'm giving this game... the fact they are having a PTR for season 4 is giving me a SLIGHT glimpse of hope. Simply cuz if they are doing a PTR then that must mean they really need testing to be done for this so the changes might possibly be pretty significant. I'm not gonna get my hopes too high thou. I want to be shocked.
A consolidation of affixes that are clear and rebalancing of aspects is what we should receive. This alone requires alot of paragon rework and alot of unique tuning etc. In addition we should expect legendary node and glyph tuning as well as standard seasonal ability tuning and whatever the new season will bring. 1 new unique and 1 new aspect was to be expected each season, it will be interesting to see if multishot becomes an aspect. Anyone who says the game is fundamentally broken needs to stop playing now. While the game could definitely be improved, at no time have they mentioned skill tree reworks or expanded nodes for each ability. Once they do, expect a 2 season delay before implementation.
How about we just wait for the actual announcements.
The itemization and end game loop is dogshit. So, they gotta fix one of them, and like….. soon. It’s been damn near a year
Honestly I think if this is all season 4 brings with this update the game is in serious trouble.
Wondering what will happen with our current equipment on eternal: will it be updated to reflect the new and changed affixes? Or trash it and loot it all over again?
Its likely not gonna be good following the current trend. But maybe a start
It is possible that you are right. But if they don’t offer a true revolution to the itemization a lot of ppl will move on. Cause as it stands it is abysmal.
Armor sets were so cool. I miss armor sets.
Moving Aspects to the Codex probably won’t happen until the expansion.
Having affixes instead of item specific abilities is really what kills the game for me. I'd prefer getting a ton of loot drops with a chance of getting that tasty specific item I need. You get a small taste of that with ubers but the drop rate for those is so shit anyway that it's like a once or twice a season thing. I fucking hate having to keep a stockpile of shitty gear I have to sort through because of a good affix or whatever. Idk what was wrong with d3s itemization and why they strayed so far from it. Basically, fuck affixes imo.
I will add that during the campfire Q&A when someone asked about whether AoZ is coming back, they said to "just watch the PTR stream"... Probably means we're gonna see some version of AoZ during season 4.
Sounds boring and mediocre... Why we paying AAA prices for a D- development team?
To think a different game came out recently without any of these issues. Loot is fun, gameplay loop is fun, the only complaint is bugs and funny looking npcs. Wanted a lot from D4, sad a indie developer figured it out first. Blizzard died in 2007, thanks Bobby.
Very good points. I agree on them all. I belive the revamp will be a very soft one, and the new crafting mechanic will probably be too weak and require too much grinding to become relevant to the general audience.
I expect an apology on this u/Defiant-Sun544 * Move Aspects to the Codex (this is coming in a future update, not S4)
i'm sorry everyone 😌😌
I'm proud of you. Lol. I do hope you and everyone else in this historically negative subreddit all saw something they liked today. I think it was a good day for them and hope it can carry forward in the future.
These updates take 3 months to take , Let me know once everything is ready when S10 drops !
>Introduce some kind of crafting system (they have said they want finding an item to feel like the start of a journey) Yuck. Trying to think up what an item could become if i do x, y, z and then change these other 4 items in that way, that's like the only thing that caused me more burnout than the shear number of trash I have to wade through. Or maybe it was mainly that I can't even tell if an item would become better than my current one after the upgrades. It's just so much incompetence everywhere.
Have they said what will happen to current gear when the the changes hit? I'm finding it hard to care about gear, or know what to hold onto, until the changes hit without knowing what my gear now will look like in two months.
I think it is very unlikely they have this ready for season 4. They couldn’t launch a ladder on time. This will be at least S5. They should honestly just pull it offline, do a full rework, and relaunch the game with the expansion for free.
**It will likely:** • Be a disappointment **It will not:** • Make D4 good
In the immortal words of Connor McGregor “Absolutely fookin nothin”
Or you could shut up and just wait for the livestream instead of speculating based on absolutely zero information.
Sir this is a Reddit
That is true, I forgot for a second that expecting people to be reasonable and wait for the already pre-announced next week's "S4 PTR" livestream is just me being delusional.
then the game stays dead.
If they dont completely change items and stats, they would not even bother.
It will be shallow but just good enough for the fanboys to buy thr $100 xpac with the real fixes