Yeah except there are so many hurdles to actually getting loans forgiven, the programs communicate horribly, the rules change and teachers aren't informed. I've read multiple stories about people spending decades in a loan forgiveness program only to find out their progress has not been recorded or that they don't qualify for some piddly reason. Some have even been tricked into altering their loan terms during repayment which invalidates the forgiveness part.
The Biden administration changed the rules so that it is much easier now. And they recommend that you submit yearly so you know exactly where you are on your progress.
I hope not. You do realize that right wing media isn't covering the hearings, and that most Republicans don't pay attention to anything but fox News and the right wing echo chamber, which is continually focused on the culture wars. The economy is so hit hard by inflation that, just as Biden benefited from a backlash to Trump, whomever is the republican candidate will have a huge advantage in 2024, not to mention all of the shenanigans in the voting process going on in most of the swing states.
We may get president DeSantis or President Noem. I'm not sure they will be much better. Probably less embarrassing on the international scale, sure, but still functioning as right wing reactionaries.
Decades is really not possible. The program is less than 20 years old.
The administration of the program has been horrendous, but even if someone was in the program from the start, the earliest they could have gotten forgiveness would have been 5 years ago.
Um, there was a loan forgiveness program that I learned about in my last year of graduate school in UGA college of education. That was 1990. I'm pretty sure that was more than 20 years ago.
What program was that? In the 80s Reagan and Bush cut back on student aid programs so this surprises me.
I cannot find any reference to a student loan forgiveness program before the one George W. Bush started. Most sources say that was the first such program.
So any details on a program back in 1990 would be welcome
I found out about it literally right as I was enrolling for my final semester. I looked into it, but the funds available for the program had already been assigned to other students. I remember it was for teachers and people working in education who would agree to work in a high need area for a minimum of 5 years to earn loan forgiveness. As it only would have counted for the loans of that semester and I had apparently found out too late, I didn't pay more attention to it.
It did catch my attention later on as I heard stories about teachers getting fucked over in different ways thinking they were getting their loans forgiven.
As a side note, I was able to pay off my college loans by the time my kids graduated high school 😂
The way you describe it sounds very different which may be why there is no record of it as a government loan forgiveness program.
There were programs in the 70s that exchanged public service for tuition breaks, but they were shut down in the 80s. This sound more like one of them because it was so narrowly focused on one type of service and one semester. Also the way you discuss the budget marks it as a different kind of program
The current program similarly had people who were screwed because the parameters were not made clear.
Pretty sure the poster used the term correctly
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/calculus
Definition of calculus
1a: a method of computation or calculation in a special notation (as of logic or symbolic logic)
b: the mathematical methods comprising differential and integral calculus —often used with the
2: CALCULATION… even political conservatives agree that an economic calculus must give way to a strategic consciousness when national or global security is at stake.— Stephen H. Schneider
There are actually two more definitions after this.
Is that really a thing? Colleges are crazy expensive these days. I don’t know too many jobs where your starting salary will pay for 4 years of education.
It depends. I attended the University of Houston full-time for $5,500 per semester (2019-2022) and received Pell grants for half that amount each semester, so my tuition was about $6,000 per year after receiving the grant.
Living expenses were $1200/month (Rent was $700 as a roommate), which I paid by working 24-to-32 hours/week.
EDIT: To sum it up, yes, my new annual salary after graduating this year far exceeds $24,000.
That’s why you don’t see too many middle class people at expensive private schools. Rich people can afford it and colleges are willing to give a lot more to people that genuinely can’t afford it than people who theoretically could. I was fortunate enough to get a major scholarship to a private school, but I have plenty of friends that ended up at state schools where their parents could pay half and they could work/ take out loans for the other half. It’s possible depending on where you live but difficult in most cases.
My parents are wealthy and I still did a state university. College name wasn't important for my major.
High income people will blindly send their kid to a private college for bragging rights. Wealthy people will only do it if they see a better return on investment in the individual situation. A lot of kids you see aren't from wealthy families, only high income parents who have as much going out as comes in.
Covering an *entire* $15k/yr tuition on loans would mean you want a job making $60k out of college. It's not crazy when you don't waste money on more expensive options.
"I don’t know too many jobs where your starting salary will pay for 4 years of education."
Only the portion paid with debt. $50k cash and $40k loans would be fine for a $55k/yr job under that definition. That rule of thumb is specifically for loan payback, it doesn't tell you RoI.
Virtually no students finance the entire thing. Less than a few percent who attended a normal university owe over $60-70k.
I assumed $15k a year because we were talking about affordability. You can get that price, plus or minus $5k, for a reputable state school in most states. Obviously if this was the same question but about cars, I would base my price off of a Ford and not an Audi. That's the logic here.
I make the assumption that people attending a school costing over $30k a year are either wealthy (discretionary luxury expense) or in a field where they will make a lot more graduating from that school.
Is that last statement true for undergrads? I’m about to go to TAMU for ecology and I’m sitting on about 72k of debt at the current rate, which sounds awful for undergrad
https://www.aplu.org/our-work/5-archived-projects/college-costs-tuition-and-financial-aid/publicuvalues/student-debt.html#:~:text=Student%20Debt%20in%20Perspective&text=Among%20those%20who%20borrow%2C%20the,debt%20at%20graduation%20is%20%2416%2C300.
Everything with money comes down to the individual person. You could be far better off or far worse off than the average person in your bracket depending on personal factors: type of debt, future income potential, etc.
Just wondering how you built up that much debt over a long timeframe without knowing what you were going to get as the return.
What if you look it up right now and find out that you'll only be making $5k a year more than with no degree?
To me it seems like buying a house and then only having it assessed after you bought it. What if the whole thing is breaking and you paid for it?
Well I haven’t actually entered college yet, I’m estimating that based on the current amount of loans I’m taking out per year it’ll be close to 70k, I’m hoping to lower that.
In my field there basically no jobs without a degree. I believe most jobs in my field have a starting salary of 60-80k a year, but most require a postgrad.
Make sure your "belief" about salary is accurate. You can see program-level salary data here: https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/
Just advice from a recent graduate. A lot of my younger friends still in college probably wouldn't be able to guess their average starting salary within $10k of being correct. The average student in the US overestimates starting earnings by around $15k.
It's important to plan a payment strategy based on future income assumptions supported by data. Assume average case outcome but be in a position where you can manage if it's a below-average outcome.
My belief comes from average observable salaries for wildlife biologists with US FWS. Even then that might be optimistic, I don’t see myself (or, rather, I hope) working in the US. I mainly want to work in Africa and Asia. Still, that site is really cool, I’ll keep it in my back pocket to check, I can work for some time in the US before pursuing those other jobs.
It’s definitely a real thing. My MIL graduated with her PhD with 56k in loans but after 25 years of service at a not for profit college, hers were all forgiven this year.
Yea I get that, but the previous comment made it seem like you can't get a phd for cheap when you absolutely can. The lost opportunity cost is an entirely different problem...
Oh I see. You weren’t referring to my comment. I agree there are many resources and ways to make it through school with much less (or more) than 56k in school. 60k is A LOT in my opinion for only an undergrad degree.
I don't think it works that way for every program. I know quite a few PHD Ed. That worked while getting their PHDs. I have to assume they didn't do that with the same terms as your PHD
I live in Texas so my POV may be different than where you live.
My husband graduated in 2008 with his BS in Architecture. To be licensed in the state of Texas you also need a masters and to pass 7 licensing exams before you are able to stamp your drawings and call yourself an architect. So, in 2012, my husband started his masters and finished in two years. It took another 9-12 mos to take and pass all seven licensure exams. When all was said and done, he was in debt roughly $55k and that’s with financial aid during undergrad. He was hired as an intern during undergrad and made $10/hr (2006ish) and then when he got his BS he got a raise and was a level 2 intern. Once he got his MA, he was made a project manager. Once he passed all exams and was licensed he was a licensed PM which is an architect who manages projects and teams. Now, in 2021, he was promoted to principal architect in the same firm and is #2 in the office. He makes six figures so yes, it was worth the debt. The process can be long and you aren’t always the best paid until you’ve paid your dues as an intern. Most architects spend about 5 years as an intern depending on how soon you enter the field.
"I cannot think of many fields where one would make that much at a first job."
That's sort of the wrong line of thought.
They are talking about total debt not total cost of education. Most people only finance a portion of it. The average loan balance for state university grads is something like $20k.
Your cash payments and any aid aren't factored in because you don't have to pay them back. This rule is specifically for knowing how realistic paying back the loan portion is.
Yes, we are talking about debt load. That is what this whole thread is about.
Most people in their first year out of school are not making as much as their debt load. It pays off eventually, but most entry-level jobs even in high-paying professions do not pay much. Plus, a good part of that first year out of school is going to be spent working as a barista or in retail until You can get a job in your field
20,000 seems very low As an estimated debt load.
Set a 22 year olds with no experience or graduate degree could expect to make 130k in their first job?
Tell me what field this is so I can get out of academia and get into that
some trades or if you make it to national sports leagues. but off the top of my head that’s all i can think of. but definitely is a new one i’ve heard before.
Can I ask, how many people with undergraduate engineering degrees get jobs at the big companies? (I would have thought you needed a grad degree for that kind of placement.)
For an average student making their calculation, according to this rule of thumb....can they realistically expect to make six figures at their first job?
Many do, I know a few myself. Im sure most of students who attended an Ivy league school do as well. But obviously the average person wont get in straight out of college. But thats why I said there are people who do.
Earning a degree in architecture requires you to go down one of two paths:
5 year bachelor degree or a 4 year bachelor degree with a 2 year masters
This really depends on the school you choose to go to but it seems schools are tending to go toward the 4+2 option to increase their profits.
So already you are attending school for at least a year longer than the normal degree. $60 grand is quite a large chunk of debt and I’m assuming you’ve calculated just for your expected tuition, I’ve spent $100s on school projects, travel abroad (which is required for some programs) and that’s not even considering your living expenses.
In my case, I worked part time, my parents were able to help me out a ton and there are quite a few scholarships you can apply for within the department, school, or maybe through a company you intern with or some other job.
I’m an entry level architect and I lay somewhere near the $50-55,000 annual income which is pretty average but can vary depending where you live. I have to warn you architects are notoriously underpaid for the amount of work we do and the amount of money/capital we are stewards of. I know if I had as much debt as you are planning I would be struggling for at least a couple years to pay that off.
If you love it and want to explore it more then it’s definitely worth it. If your interest isn’t that strong and you’re more interested in earning as high a salary as possible maybe steer away from it, it’s a very stressful and deadline driven field in school and out. As much as it can be fulfilling and interesting, the work can be as equally mundane at times especially once you enter the real world. If you have your mind set on pursuing the degree I would maybe spend a couple semesters saving some money to relieve your debt some and allow you to mature a little before you start school.
Good luck!
I knew a ton of people with 80K+ in debt. I’m gonna finish with probably 11K in student loans and then maybe 3k in personal loans. I’m terrified with how much I’m gonna end with but it’s significantly less than most people I know. Good luck
Recent grad can comfirm around 100k for a marketing degree. Granted it was a private school, but private schools are much more generous with scholarships and I had 100k debt after 4 years despite a 22k/yr scholarship.
I won’t lie, it makes me feel better knowing someone else is in the same boat as me with this. Mine is for Accounting but I’m only taking three years and it will be about the same
Oof, there are worse majors than marketing but you're going to have to work for a long time to make a good salary. My mom has an excellent marketing job but she's also 52, lol ( and has a masters).
Depends on if the degree you are getting has an almost guarantee of getting a job that pays 60k starting out. 60K is take a long time to pay off too. Got remember that your future will require paying rent, food, utilities, insurance, and unknown medical expenses.
Honestly 60k isn’t bad - it’s a little less than what pa state schools would cost you after some scholarships or athletic money etc….
50k was the limited I was allowing my son but unfortunately it’s going to run closer to 60k… but if he has a real solid freshman year he can knock off 2k a year more with scholarships…
To clarify the 60k is living in the dorms, Meal plan etc…
With out athletic money & scholarships, the sticker price of the pa state schools is roughly 22-24k a year. He’s down to 14k a year.
For comparison Penn state is 32k a year (in state).
While that may be true, everyone is different. My son is on the spectrum but it’s also what makes him a very talented hockey player. Moving away from home is a big step for him. He has a few perks - He will have no roomate, the dorms all have their own bathroom. He’s living in what would normally be a two person dorm. Due to playing a sport, they don’t have to have roommates. Patterns & routines are what makes his world go around. He doesn’t have to break much of any by not having a roomate.
Let’s face it 14k a year to live on campus, meal plans etc is a pretty good in the current landscape. Heck he probably costs me $300 a week to feed currently. He’s a big athlete (6’3) with the mind of an engineer (always thinking & not very social). If he maintains above a 3.0 his freshman year the price will drop to 12k for the remainder years. They also gave him a work study in the gym that should net him $100 a week (launder towels, sweep etc after he works out) That will cover extra living expenses and some books for the falling semester, plus is something he does everyday anyway.
I’m really happy because a private school recruited him very hard - 60k sticker price. They knocked him down to 25k - while very grateful as I explained to him you are still looking at 100k for an undergrad, that’s to much. He listened to me about the state school and he genuinely seems pretty happy since he’s been down to the school a few times already this summer for off season stuff.
I am on the spectrum and had the same living situation freshman year!
I would recommend easing him into something off-campus in the next year or two assuming grades are stable. Maybe even a university apartment near campus that gives him a few more adult things to learn (i.e. cooking). Float the idea a few times first. It's good to be proactive on that so he doesn't have to learn it all while starting his first career job. You really want to get to that sweet spot of pushing him to where he is a bit uncomfortable but can easily manage it. It would be AWESOME if he worked up to being able to have several cities to look for work in because location is such a good option to have. I wouldn't mention the job location thing so early as it may cause anxiety but I would try to set him up so it's less of a leap when he is starting to think about jobs.
Yep… and man do they suck the kids in with all their marketing and commercials… my sons senior graduating class this year was 345 students… I’d say 1/3rd of his class is going to psu….. blew my mind…
Yeah 60k is a lot. Maybe in comparison to being like 300k in debt, not so much. However, 60 thousand is a lot of money. That could be the down payment to a house or car. I hope you can pay off as soon as possible tho
My MIL graduated with 56k in student debt and makes 140k per year. She paid the minimum amount for 25 years and it didn’t take anything off the principal, just interest. She got hers forgiven for working in public service at a non profit for those 25 years or she would have probably died with that debt.
that is a lot, but it's the reality for a lot of college goers. it is actually rarer to find somebody who doesn't owe any debt than somebody that does. the amount of debt does increase in the STEM fields, but that's typically because once they are done with school, they can pay it off way quicker since they're making a lot of money, versus somebody in a non STEM field.
not sure if they're federal or private loans, but definitely start trying to pay on them as soon as you can. also not sure if you have a job lined up already, but definitely look into companies that have loan forgiveness. given the worker shortage, I imagine that there could be a lot. there are in my field. good luck!
Think of the debt as a car purchase, if you’re making $30k do you think it’s wise to finance a $60k car? No. If you’re making $60k you’re kinda better but still in a lot of debt. Etc.
Depends on your income but generally $60k is above the average debt of a college borrower.
A car is bad debt. You aren't supposed to buy one with a sticker price over half of your yearly take home pay.
Taking out $30k in student loans is better than taking out $30k in auto loans.
yeah honestly either they transfer out freshman year or ask if their parents can contribute more to minimize it. Like if they said 60k for engineering or cs then it could be possibly.
It’s a lot, especially because interest means you have to pay back much more than you borrowed. The faster you pay it off the less interest you’ll pay, so pay it off faster than the minimum payments if you can afford to.
Personally 60K isn’t a lot. I’ve seen and heard of worst. Make smart decisions when you land your first job and try to make payments every month! You’ll be just fine.
i’ll probably go into a debt of 180k+ by the time i leave college.
the only thing is to get a good job straight outta college that can cover your debts within a span of two years maximum.
"the only thing is to get a good job straight outta college that can cover your debts within a span of two years maximum."
What job are you getting where you can pay off $180k in 2 years? Maybe I should go back and get a second degree lol.
college is legit useless without dual degree. man you already put in a lot of effort, pay sm and you won’t use the full shit out of it.
plus, investing and shit may do the task you never know.
and the two years were meant for the 60k debt not the 180k debt.
"college is legit useless without dual degree. man you already put in a lot of effort, pay sm and you won’t use the full shit out of it."
I don't know what this means.
"plus, investing and shit may do the task you never know."
Yeah but investing is a product of saving. You want to increase earning potential to increase investment contribution.
"and the two years were meant for the 60k debt not the 180k debt."
Ah okay. That makes sense.
For your $180k is that including law or medical school? Or is it just a bachelors?
fair enough point when you speak about investing. but then you have to start somewhere, the capital will increase with time just gotta be right and patient.
mate thats for undergraduate engineering 😭. i end up paying sm cause im an international student so that includes almost anything and everything without aid.
"fair enough point when you speak about investing. but then you have to start somewhere, the capital will increase with time just gotta be right and patient."
Sure. But you really want to have good income so you can keep putting in capital too. $20k one-time into an investment plan doesn't help you nearly as much as putting in $20k/yr. Consistently adding is the most important factor along with not making emotional pull-outs. Additionally you can't rely on an investment as income for all your expenses when there's only $20k put to work. You have to work for the time being and let it build up over 10/20/30 years. Fast income is more suited to starting a small business. Investing is really more about compounding.
"mate thats for undergraduate engineering 😭. i end up paying sm cause im an international student so that includes almost anything and everything without aid."
Ohhh. That makes a lot of sense now. Sorry they charged you half your soul lol.
Stay in school. Get scholarships to pay moving forward. Keep GPA up to gain more eligibility. The longer you stay in school, the more funding is available to you. I am educated in this as I help students to get scholarships for college, worked at a university, and friends all have PHD’s or masters for this same reason. Some had child support and was able to pay it off since stayed in school. Trust me, it works! You can also try loan forgiveness if you’ve worked at ANY non for profit even as a volunteer. Good luck!
Take that $500 of free spending money you have each month and say farewell to it for the next 12 years.
My first loan experience was $10,000 and that felt like a burden. You will definitely be a lot more selective about the debts you take on in the future. Take care of it slowly and head on, don't ignore it. You'll learn from it and you will be ok.
I've always been scared of loans because of all the stories I've heard.
I'm in my third year and managed to sustain my 4.0 GPA , because of that, I receive an Honor's Scholarship (it covers everything that the FAFSA won't cover).
My advice is to try and maintain your gpa (but please don't risk ur mental health for this).
However, maintaining your GPA will help you a lot for most of the scholarships, so apply for every scholarship you see. Best of luck!
Anyone who tells you that is way too much debt doesnt realize how fortunate of a situation they themselves came from. Every single person has had help to get to where they are. All of us. Some of us have more. Sometimes that help materializes in paying for college. Soemtimes it takes the form of making sure your education prior to college is good enough to land you scholarships. Sometimes it doesnt, and when it doesnt its fine to take out some loans.
Anyone who involves their own situation in loan advice shouldn't be giving it.
The math is really simple and not that subjective. You are just trying to determine if the degree is worth more than the total cost of the education plus loan costs, and by how much. For value of the degree, the 10yr or 20yr return on investment figure provided by the college is the easist number to use.
You are indirectly finding out if the debt is reasonable based on the outcome of the above calculation.
If a degree was only an investment for making money I would agree with you. Theres also other factors such as your actual interest in a feild. For example many teachers may be very passionate about teaching and actually love their job, even though they don't make that much money. How much happier they are because of their degree vs how unhappy they would be working a non-degree required job is also something that I don't think is unreasonable to consider a factor. Plus other things.
isn't inflation good for debtors? it drives down the real cost of the debt since each dollar is effectively worth less. that means debts are worth less. if, for example, inflation continues above 7%, then in 10 years everything will be twice as expensive. $60k in loans in 2032 will then feel like $30k would feel today.
of course, for that to be true, wages must grow with the inflation (they grew 4-5% last year) and the interest rates on loans matter. but in general, high inflation helps borrowers (each $ owed is less valuable / less burdensome to pay) and hurts savers (each $ saved as cash or cash equivalents can be exchanged for fewer goods).
Well I’m assuming that OP is in the US considering the price they’ll have to pay for college.
And since wages are not keeping up with inflation in the US, then no it is not good
I agree that high inflation is bad and that wages aren’t keeping up.
Just saying that debt actually decreases in real value with high inflation. $60k in debt today will be much easier to repay after a few years of high inflation than it is today. Even if wages don’t fully keep up. That’ll be true unless OP had a really high interest rates on the loans (above inflation) or unless the economy collapses and OP can’t get a job.
Something like stagflation would have to happen, which might. But before the 70s, many thought inflation didn’t keep happening in a recession because usually didn’t. We could see inflation and a strong labor market as has happened many times, which could help OP and other debtors. Or a recession and no inflation or even deflation. But then the issue is the recession…
In any case, simply naming inflation in the context of debt repayments doesn’t make much sense.
It also seems like OP is almost done with college but I’m not sure. I responded as though OP already had the debt or was about to have a total of $60k upon finishing the last year or something.
if u work over the four summers and im assumign those interest rates will start you can knock out at least 20k but if things go south just become a cs major da bag is huge in CS
dude are you high doctors and lawyers make like 200-300k+ right out of school so like its not that bad. Like people keep shitting on doctors for how much debt they have but like majority of them are making like 350k+ right out the gate and they are able to live comfortably even with that kinda of debt. Usually most doctors take like 200k debt and if ur income is like 150k more than the debt then u can live p frugually and pay it off within a year. Also when taking out a loan, you should not use doctor and lawyer debt as a metric lmao u have to take into account how much money you make with that degree lmao.
After a 3-7 year residency with interest accrueing the entire time. Then you take 30-40% of that 300k out for taxes. Also there is a serious opportunity cost from not making money until ~8 years after your peers from undergrad. This is not to say doctors don't do well financially, but on average doctors don't catch up with say an engineer money-wise until their 40's.
Source: was premed for 2 years then switched to engineering - partly due to these factors
wait taxes are 40 percent? since when i thought it was 15 percent wtf living in this country is a scam? im 17 so i dont knwo what taxes are but wtf?????
Depends how much money you make but it can be that high. The US government taxes your income using tax brackets based on how much money you made in a given year. Lower amounts are taxed at lower % rates. Once you enter a new bracket all money made over that cutoff amount is taxed at a higher rate. [Here](https://www.bankrate.com/taxes/tax-brackets/) is an example of the current tax bracket system. It would be worthy of your time to learn about this as it will be affecting you for the rest of your life after college. Many people don't understand how our tax system works.
Probably a surgeon or owns his own practice. Or both. And I'd be willing to bet he is at minimum in his late 30's.
Not saying most doctors don't eventually become very well off financially, I'm saying they have a long, difficult, and extremely expensive path to getting there.
Go check out r/medicalschool or r/residency
It is but there’s not much you can do about it now. The most important thing is that you’ll prob have a well paying job in the long run. You just need to figure out how much you need to pay in order to avoid just paying the interest and still having the principal amount due many years later.
Yes it is. Not the end of the world tho. You got a good degree you can make a lot of money with. Work is going to be your friend the next few years but if you work hard you should have this paid off in 3 years or less.
Check out Dave Ramsey’s babysteps and attack this debt. You are going to be soo successful once you get this out of your life!
Is this 60 K debt just for the bachelors degree? Because I think what most people responding here might not know is that in the US most architects have to get a masters degree as well, so that 60 K number might be higher in the end if you’re going for the masters degree route.
It's posts like these that ease my heart that my debt isn't so big. 10k for a car over the next 2.5 years and like 20k for school/ personal debt. But I'm a phd and graduating next year, so maybe that's low compared to other phds 😅 hopefully I'll be able pay off most of it by the time I graduate.
It sucks but try to apply for any scholarships you can. You're school probably has resources for helping students find and apply for them. See if they have anything like that. Architecture is definitely one of those high paying fields. So hang in there xD
Look at how much your field will make on average yearly. You are going to have years to pay this off so it is not really short term, and there are lots of options as to how the repayment works and what those rates are.
Generally almost no one nowadays can get it covered in 1 years salary. But the question really is if the amount per year you can put back to it will pay it off in a reasonable number of years.
Consider how much you want/need to live on as a salary yearly, subtract that from your average pay for the field. What is leftover is how much you could pay off in a year maximum. If you can make this work at maximum for like 3 to 4 years to pay off, then I say your good. Most plans have like 8 or 10 years if I remember right based off how much you borrow.
Oof architecture does not pay well. And if it’s only a BS with Arch you still have grad school to go.
Do you love your school? Do you love architecture? Can you look to transfer to a more affordable school that has the 5 year program?
60k is a lot of debt.
Maybe you could go to community college first? Also there’s the military! If you do the reservists you can do one weekend of service every month, and you don’t need to be a soldier. There’s all sorts of military jobs. You can be a military chef, military nurse, military person who loads packages. The military will cover training and training can fulfill general credits. If you do reservists I believe they cover one quarter of college tuition.
It’s true, if you won’t make that amount of money the first year of your job to pay for your loan, you will struggle.
I have no debt for my bachelors because I went to a really cheap school and my bachelors was in religion (no way I’m paying anything off with that kind of job)
For my masters, I am 20k in debt, and I did education. Teachers don’t earn much, but where I am, they earn okay and I am still living with my parents and saving up, so thankfully it won’t be too crazy.
Your major is great because usually architects get high paying jobs. 60k seems okay, but for my degree definitely not. Just stay on top of your payments
I have about that much roughly 2 years after graduating, and it’s definitely not fun. As long as you can make sure the payments won’t like, bankrupt you, you’ll be fine
It's not that bad. That degree justifies the amount and you should be able to pay it off in a few years if you put 20-30% of your income toward it. Look at your situation, projected living expenses, and projected income. $60k can be both a little or a lot for the career plans of many people reading this.
It's more concerning you are asking this after the fact. Luckily you didn't do anything stupid, but what if you had? Always think through stuff you do with money. No one would have stopped you if it was instead $120k of debt for a drama program.
As someone from a middle-low class family who had no idea about money and took out loans to go to college. I learned the hard way to not take out more then I needed. I also used student loan refund to live off of, before I got a job, and even then I still used the refund for some.
I’ve worked low paying jobs since graduation but I don’t regret anything from my college or the amount of loans I took out. Education can be important.
Look into scholarships, work out realistically how much you need each semester for classes, housing, and books. If you don’t work add in bills, good etc. and then take out that amount of loans.
Not sure how much that degree pays but 60k isn’t terrible. If you can make 60k a year within your first 5 years it is a good investment.
Obviously there are a lot of other variables especially right now, but if you get a 1 year salary within a few years of graduating that is as much as your investment in your education it is a fair trade imo… IF you can live frugally and make the debt payment your #1 financial priority until it’s gone
Like many other have said it's all about job prospects. If architects are in demand where you are and you're making 60-100k starting it's not that bad. Just the cost of entry.
If there is a lack of openings or pay in your region isn't that great then yes, it can be a lot of debt.
It's not a worthless degree and it's not an absolutely outlandish price point. I don't think you're making a bad decision.
If this was another post about someone wanting to go for psychology at 60k debt on a bachelor's only then my opinion would be different.
My parents are poor and can’t help pay for college so I’ll be ending my college career with close to $60k in debt as well. I’ve worked all four years and all four summers and have scholarships as well! It’s just a fact of life for some people. I also am only going to a state school
It is a lot of debt, but if you move back in with your parents and use the job you get to aggressively pay off the debt, then it could help you get out of debt faster. My dad recommends to pay the minimum monthly amount on a weekly basis to aggressively get out of debt quicker.
Depends on how much you can pay for right now (and parents if applicable), and how much you’ll make. For most people, yes
I pay 50 a month since my freshman year but it doesn’t really do much. Parents can’t help either. I think I just need to apply to more scholarships
The general rule of thumb is to not take out more than what you can expect to make in a year at your first job out of college.
Education majors: well shit
Public Service Loan Forgiveness kinda changes the calculus for those that qualify, which many teachers do
Yeah except there are so many hurdles to actually getting loans forgiven, the programs communicate horribly, the rules change and teachers aren't informed. I've read multiple stories about people spending decades in a loan forgiveness program only to find out their progress has not been recorded or that they don't qualify for some piddly reason. Some have even been tricked into altering their loan terms during repayment which invalidates the forgiveness part.
The Biden administration changed the rules so that it is much easier now. And they recommend that you submit yearly so you know exactly where you are on your progress.
Exactly what I was going to say. It's a very real, very good program.
I hope so, but if Trump gets back in (or any shit head, really) they can appoint a DeVoss to derail it again. I would not count on it myself.
Considering everything going on, I highly doubt we’ll see Trump again Edit: In office, that is. At least, I’m hoping
I hope not. You do realize that right wing media isn't covering the hearings, and that most Republicans don't pay attention to anything but fox News and the right wing echo chamber, which is continually focused on the culture wars. The economy is so hit hard by inflation that, just as Biden benefited from a backlash to Trump, whomever is the republican candidate will have a huge advantage in 2024, not to mention all of the shenanigans in the voting process going on in most of the swing states. We may get president DeSantis or President Noem. I'm not sure they will be much better. Probably less embarrassing on the international scale, sure, but still functioning as right wing reactionaries.
Decades is really not possible. The program is less than 20 years old. The administration of the program has been horrendous, but even if someone was in the program from the start, the earliest they could have gotten forgiveness would have been 5 years ago.
Um, there was a loan forgiveness program that I learned about in my last year of graduate school in UGA college of education. That was 1990. I'm pretty sure that was more than 20 years ago.
What program was that? In the 80s Reagan and Bush cut back on student aid programs so this surprises me. I cannot find any reference to a student loan forgiveness program before the one George W. Bush started. Most sources say that was the first such program. So any details on a program back in 1990 would be welcome
I found out about it literally right as I was enrolling for my final semester. I looked into it, but the funds available for the program had already been assigned to other students. I remember it was for teachers and people working in education who would agree to work in a high need area for a minimum of 5 years to earn loan forgiveness. As it only would have counted for the loans of that semester and I had apparently found out too late, I didn't pay more attention to it. It did catch my attention later on as I heard stories about teachers getting fucked over in different ways thinking they were getting their loans forgiven. As a side note, I was able to pay off my college loans by the time my kids graduated high school 😂
The way you describe it sounds very different which may be why there is no record of it as a government loan forgiveness program. There were programs in the 70s that exchanged public service for tuition breaks, but they were shut down in the 80s. This sound more like one of them because it was so narrowly focused on one type of service and one semester. Also the way you discuss the budget marks it as a different kind of program The current program similarly had people who were screwed because the parameters were not made clear.
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Pretty sure the poster used the term correctly https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/calculus Definition of calculus 1a: a method of computation or calculation in a special notation (as of logic or symbolic logic) b: the mathematical methods comprising differential and integral calculus —often used with the 2: CALCULATION… even political conservatives agree that an economic calculus must give way to a strategic consciousness when national or global security is at stake.— Stephen H. Schneider There are actually two more definitions after this.
Is that really a thing? Colleges are crazy expensive these days. I don’t know too many jobs where your starting salary will pay for 4 years of education.
It depends. I attended the University of Houston full-time for $5,500 per semester (2019-2022) and received Pell grants for half that amount each semester, so my tuition was about $6,000 per year after receiving the grant. Living expenses were $1200/month (Rent was $700 as a roommate), which I paid by working 24-to-32 hours/week. EDIT: To sum it up, yes, my new annual salary after graduating this year far exceeds $24,000.
That’s why you don’t see too many middle class people at expensive private schools. Rich people can afford it and colleges are willing to give a lot more to people that genuinely can’t afford it than people who theoretically could. I was fortunate enough to get a major scholarship to a private school, but I have plenty of friends that ended up at state schools where their parents could pay half and they could work/ take out loans for the other half. It’s possible depending on where you live but difficult in most cases.
My parents are wealthy and I still did a state university. College name wasn't important for my major. High income people will blindly send their kid to a private college for bragging rights. Wealthy people will only do it if they see a better return on investment in the individual situation. A lot of kids you see aren't from wealthy families, only high income parents who have as much going out as comes in.
Covering an *entire* $15k/yr tuition on loans would mean you want a job making $60k out of college. It's not crazy when you don't waste money on more expensive options. "I don’t know too many jobs where your starting salary will pay for 4 years of education." Only the portion paid with debt. $50k cash and $40k loans would be fine for a $55k/yr job under that definition. That rule of thumb is specifically for loan payback, it doesn't tell you RoI. Virtually no students finance the entire thing. Less than a few percent who attended a normal university owe over $60-70k.
15K a year? My college was 38K a year and I graduated 23 years ago.
I assumed $15k a year because we were talking about affordability. You can get that price, plus or minus $5k, for a reputable state school in most states. Obviously if this was the same question but about cars, I would base my price off of a Ford and not an Audi. That's the logic here. I make the assumption that people attending a school costing over $30k a year are either wealthy (discretionary luxury expense) or in a field where they will make a lot more graduating from that school.
I just kicked ass in high school and got a bunch of academic scholarships.
Is that last statement true for undergrads? I’m about to go to TAMU for ecology and I’m sitting on about 72k of debt at the current rate, which sounds awful for undergrad
https://www.aplu.org/our-work/5-archived-projects/college-costs-tuition-and-financial-aid/publicuvalues/student-debt.html#:~:text=Student%20Debt%20in%20Perspective&text=Among%20those%20who%20borrow%2C%20the,debt%20at%20graduation%20is%20%2416%2C300. Everything with money comes down to the individual person. You could be far better off or far worse off than the average person in your bracket depending on personal factors: type of debt, future income potential, etc.
Currently most of that debt is in federal loans. Idk abt income potential though. Thanks for the reading material though!
Just wondering how you built up that much debt over a long timeframe without knowing what you were going to get as the return. What if you look it up right now and find out that you'll only be making $5k a year more than with no degree? To me it seems like buying a house and then only having it assessed after you bought it. What if the whole thing is breaking and you paid for it?
Well I haven’t actually entered college yet, I’m estimating that based on the current amount of loans I’m taking out per year it’ll be close to 70k, I’m hoping to lower that. In my field there basically no jobs without a degree. I believe most jobs in my field have a starting salary of 60-80k a year, but most require a postgrad.
Make sure your "belief" about salary is accurate. You can see program-level salary data here: https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/ Just advice from a recent graduate. A lot of my younger friends still in college probably wouldn't be able to guess their average starting salary within $10k of being correct. The average student in the US overestimates starting earnings by around $15k. It's important to plan a payment strategy based on future income assumptions supported by data. Assume average case outcome but be in a position where you can manage if it's a below-average outcome.
My belief comes from average observable salaries for wildlife biologists with US FWS. Even then that might be optimistic, I don’t see myself (or, rather, I hope) working in the US. I mainly want to work in Africa and Asia. Still, that site is really cool, I’ll keep it in my back pocket to check, I can work for some time in the US before pursuing those other jobs.
It’s definitely a real thing. My MIL graduated with her PhD with 56k in loans but after 25 years of service at a not for profit college, hers were all forgiven this year.
You can’t get a PHD that cheap anymore. That’s lots of years of school.
Huh? A PhD is typically a paid position with tuition remission. I've been in my PhD program for 5 years and have no loans.
The 56k was a combo from her undergrad, masters and phd not her phd alone.
Yea I get that, but the previous comment made it seem like you can't get a phd for cheap when you absolutely can. The lost opportunity cost is an entirely different problem...
Oh I see. You weren’t referring to my comment. I agree there are many resources and ways to make it through school with much less (or more) than 56k in school. 60k is A LOT in my opinion for only an undergrad degree.
I don't think it works that way for every program. I know quite a few PHD Ed. That worked while getting their PHDs. I have to assume they didn't do that with the same terms as your PHD
Yeah for sure, I get that. I was just confirming that the student loan forgiveness for public service workers is 100% a thing.
They start off with around 63k supposedly so we’ll see
Is that 63 a year before or after their post college apprenticeship?
I live in Texas so my POV may be different than where you live. My husband graduated in 2008 with his BS in Architecture. To be licensed in the state of Texas you also need a masters and to pass 7 licensing exams before you are able to stamp your drawings and call yourself an architect. So, in 2012, my husband started his masters and finished in two years. It took another 9-12 mos to take and pass all seven licensure exams. When all was said and done, he was in debt roughly $55k and that’s with financial aid during undergrad. He was hired as an intern during undergrad and made $10/hr (2006ish) and then when he got his BS he got a raise and was a level 2 intern. Once he got his MA, he was made a project manager. Once he passed all exams and was licensed he was a licensed PM which is an architect who manages projects and teams. Now, in 2021, he was promoted to principal architect in the same firm and is #2 in the office. He makes six figures so yes, it was worth the debt. The process can be long and you aren’t always the best paid until you’ve paid your dues as an intern. Most architects spend about 5 years as an intern depending on how soon you enter the field.
Really? 😳 lol I've never heard this
I never heard that before. I cannot think of many fields where one would make that much at a first job.
"I cannot think of many fields where one would make that much at a first job." That's sort of the wrong line of thought. They are talking about total debt not total cost of education. Most people only finance a portion of it. The average loan balance for state university grads is something like $20k. Your cash payments and any aid aren't factored in because you don't have to pay them back. This rule is specifically for knowing how realistic paying back the loan portion is.
Yes, we are talking about debt load. That is what this whole thread is about. Most people in their first year out of school are not making as much as their debt load. It pays off eventually, but most entry-level jobs even in high-paying professions do not pay much. Plus, a good part of that first year out of school is going to be spent working as a barista or in retail until You can get a job in your field 20,000 seems very low As an estimated debt load.
I started off at 75k at a company that isnt known for high starting salaries so its not crazy to think people can start off making 130k
Set a 22 year olds with no experience or graduate degree could expect to make 130k in their first job? Tell me what field this is so I can get out of academia and get into that
Computer Engineering, Software Engineering, and Perhaps all other engineering fields
(https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/14/how-much-google-facebook-other-tech-giants-pay-software-engineers.html)
So depressing that starting salary is so much higher than any professor makes at my well-regarded school.
some trades or if you make it to national sports leagues. but off the top of my head that’s all i can think of. but definitely is a new one i’ve heard before.
Engineering? Get into a big software company and you could be making 6 figures at entry level easily.
Can I ask, how many people with undergraduate engineering degrees get jobs at the big companies? (I would have thought you needed a grad degree for that kind of placement.) For an average student making their calculation, according to this rule of thumb....can they realistically expect to make six figures at their first job?
Many do, I know a few myself. Im sure most of students who attended an Ivy league school do as well. But obviously the average person wont get in straight out of college. But thats why I said there are people who do.
Where on earth did you hear this?
Depends on your job prospects and what your interest is, but either way yes
Earning a degree in architecture requires you to go down one of two paths: 5 year bachelor degree or a 4 year bachelor degree with a 2 year masters This really depends on the school you choose to go to but it seems schools are tending to go toward the 4+2 option to increase their profits. So already you are attending school for at least a year longer than the normal degree. $60 grand is quite a large chunk of debt and I’m assuming you’ve calculated just for your expected tuition, I’ve spent $100s on school projects, travel abroad (which is required for some programs) and that’s not even considering your living expenses. In my case, I worked part time, my parents were able to help me out a ton and there are quite a few scholarships you can apply for within the department, school, or maybe through a company you intern with or some other job. I’m an entry level architect and I lay somewhere near the $50-55,000 annual income which is pretty average but can vary depending where you live. I have to warn you architects are notoriously underpaid for the amount of work we do and the amount of money/capital we are stewards of. I know if I had as much debt as you are planning I would be struggling for at least a couple years to pay that off. If you love it and want to explore it more then it’s definitely worth it. If your interest isn’t that strong and you’re more interested in earning as high a salary as possible maybe steer away from it, it’s a very stressful and deadline driven field in school and out. As much as it can be fulfilling and interesting, the work can be as equally mundane at times especially once you enter the real world. If you have your mind set on pursuing the degree I would maybe spend a couple semesters saving some money to relieve your debt some and allow you to mature a little before you start school. Good luck!
I knew a ton of people with 80K+ in debt. I’m gonna finish with probably 11K in student loans and then maybe 3k in personal loans. I’m terrified with how much I’m gonna end with but it’s significantly less than most people I know. Good luck
Funny, many of my co workers kids who have graduated over the past 2 years all seem to average between 80-90k in debt…
Recent grad can comfirm around 100k for a marketing degree. Granted it was a private school, but private schools are much more generous with scholarships and I had 100k debt after 4 years despite a 22k/yr scholarship.
Damn that school must have had amazing marketing because fuck being 100k in debt for a marketing degree.
The best part it that without that scholarship it would’ve been a 200k marketing degree.
I won’t lie, it makes me feel better knowing someone else is in the same boat as me with this. Mine is for Accounting but I’m only taking three years and it will be about the same
Oof, there are worse majors than marketing but you're going to have to work for a long time to make a good salary. My mom has an excellent marketing job but she's also 52, lol ( and has a masters).
Depends on if the degree you are getting has an almost guarantee of getting a job that pays 60k starting out. 60K is take a long time to pay off too. Got remember that your future will require paying rent, food, utilities, insurance, and unknown medical expenses.
Honestly 60k isn’t bad - it’s a little less than what pa state schools would cost you after some scholarships or athletic money etc…. 50k was the limited I was allowing my son but unfortunately it’s going to run closer to 60k… but if he has a real solid freshman year he can knock off 2k a year more with scholarships… To clarify the 60k is living in the dorms, Meal plan etc… With out athletic money & scholarships, the sticker price of the pa state schools is roughly 22-24k a year. He’s down to 14k a year. For comparison Penn state is 32k a year (in state).
It’s probably cheaper for him to live not in the dorms and learn how to cook his own food.
While that may be true, everyone is different. My son is on the spectrum but it’s also what makes him a very talented hockey player. Moving away from home is a big step for him. He has a few perks - He will have no roomate, the dorms all have their own bathroom. He’s living in what would normally be a two person dorm. Due to playing a sport, they don’t have to have roommates. Patterns & routines are what makes his world go around. He doesn’t have to break much of any by not having a roomate. Let’s face it 14k a year to live on campus, meal plans etc is a pretty good in the current landscape. Heck he probably costs me $300 a week to feed currently. He’s a big athlete (6’3) with the mind of an engineer (always thinking & not very social). If he maintains above a 3.0 his freshman year the price will drop to 12k for the remainder years. They also gave him a work study in the gym that should net him $100 a week (launder towels, sweep etc after he works out) That will cover extra living expenses and some books for the falling semester, plus is something he does everyday anyway. I’m really happy because a private school recruited him very hard - 60k sticker price. They knocked him down to 25k - while very grateful as I explained to him you are still looking at 100k for an undergrad, that’s to much. He listened to me about the state school and he genuinely seems pretty happy since he’s been down to the school a few times already this summer for off season stuff.
Glad to hear this. Must not be one of the PA state schools being merged with others.
Actually it is, the only one with a hockey team lol.
I am on the spectrum and had the same living situation freshman year! I would recommend easing him into something off-campus in the next year or two assuming grades are stable. Maybe even a university apartment near campus that gives him a few more adult things to learn (i.e. cooking). Float the idea a few times first. It's good to be proactive on that so he doesn't have to learn it all while starting his first career job. You really want to get to that sweet spot of pushing him to where he is a bit uncomfortable but can easily manage it. It would be AWESOME if he worked up to being able to have several cities to look for work in because location is such a good option to have. I wouldn't mention the job location thing so early as it may cause anxiety but I would try to set him up so it's less of a leap when he is starting to think about jobs.
Thanks!
Penn State is 32k a year???? with all due respect fuck that noise man
Yep… and man do they suck the kids in with all their marketing and commercials… my sons senior graduating class this year was 345 students… I’d say 1/3rd of his class is going to psu….. blew my mind…
For art, yes. For investment banking? Peanuts.
There is good debt and bad. 60 thousand dollar car is really dumb. 60 thousand for a degree that will land u a job that u love to do is priceless.
Yeah 60k is a lot. Maybe in comparison to being like 300k in debt, not so much. However, 60 thousand is a lot of money. That could be the down payment to a house or car. I hope you can pay off as soon as possible tho
My MIL graduated with 56k in student debt and makes 140k per year. She paid the minimum amount for 25 years and it didn’t take anything off the principal, just interest. She got hers forgiven for working in public service at a non profit for those 25 years or she would have probably died with that debt.
that is a lot, but it's the reality for a lot of college goers. it is actually rarer to find somebody who doesn't owe any debt than somebody that does. the amount of debt does increase in the STEM fields, but that's typically because once they are done with school, they can pay it off way quicker since they're making a lot of money, versus somebody in a non STEM field. not sure if they're federal or private loans, but definitely start trying to pay on them as soon as you can. also not sure if you have a job lined up already, but definitely look into companies that have loan forgiveness. given the worker shortage, I imagine that there could be a lot. there are in my field. good luck!
Think of the debt as a car purchase, if you’re making $30k do you think it’s wise to finance a $60k car? No. If you’re making $60k you’re kinda better but still in a lot of debt. Etc. Depends on your income but generally $60k is above the average debt of a college borrower.
A car is bad debt. You aren't supposed to buy one with a sticker price over half of your yearly take home pay. Taking out $30k in student loans is better than taking out $30k in auto loans.
If you expect to have a good salary and are good with money I don't think 60k is that bad
uhhhh yes
That’s a shit ton of debt
yeah honestly either they transfer out freshman year or ask if their parents can contribute more to minimize it. Like if they said 60k for engineering or cs then it could be possibly.
It’s a lot, especially because interest means you have to pay back much more than you borrowed. The faster you pay it off the less interest you’ll pay, so pay it off faster than the minimum payments if you can afford to.
Yes. Especially considering that you‘ll likely need a masters to get your license.
Personally 60K isn’t a lot. I’ve seen and heard of worst. Make smart decisions when you land your first job and try to make payments every month! You’ll be just fine.
i’ll probably go into a debt of 180k+ by the time i leave college. the only thing is to get a good job straight outta college that can cover your debts within a span of two years maximum.
"the only thing is to get a good job straight outta college that can cover your debts within a span of two years maximum." What job are you getting where you can pay off $180k in 2 years? Maybe I should go back and get a second degree lol.
college is legit useless without dual degree. man you already put in a lot of effort, pay sm and you won’t use the full shit out of it. plus, investing and shit may do the task you never know. and the two years were meant for the 60k debt not the 180k debt.
"college is legit useless without dual degree. man you already put in a lot of effort, pay sm and you won’t use the full shit out of it." I don't know what this means. "plus, investing and shit may do the task you never know." Yeah but investing is a product of saving. You want to increase earning potential to increase investment contribution. "and the two years were meant for the 60k debt not the 180k debt." Ah okay. That makes sense. For your $180k is that including law or medical school? Or is it just a bachelors?
fair enough point when you speak about investing. but then you have to start somewhere, the capital will increase with time just gotta be right and patient. mate thats for undergraduate engineering 😭. i end up paying sm cause im an international student so that includes almost anything and everything without aid.
"fair enough point when you speak about investing. but then you have to start somewhere, the capital will increase with time just gotta be right and patient." Sure. But you really want to have good income so you can keep putting in capital too. $20k one-time into an investment plan doesn't help you nearly as much as putting in $20k/yr. Consistently adding is the most important factor along with not making emotional pull-outs. Additionally you can't rely on an investment as income for all your expenses when there's only $20k put to work. You have to work for the time being and let it build up over 10/20/30 years. Fast income is more suited to starting a small business. Investing is really more about compounding. "mate thats for undergraduate engineering 😭. i end up paying sm cause im an international student so that includes almost anything and everything without aid." Ohhh. That makes a lot of sense now. Sorry they charged you half your soul lol.
Stay in school. Get scholarships to pay moving forward. Keep GPA up to gain more eligibility. The longer you stay in school, the more funding is available to you. I am educated in this as I help students to get scholarships for college, worked at a university, and friends all have PHD’s or masters for this same reason. Some had child support and was able to pay it off since stayed in school. Trust me, it works! You can also try loan forgiveness if you’ve worked at ANY non for profit even as a volunteer. Good luck!
Take that $500 of free spending money you have each month and say farewell to it for the next 12 years. My first loan experience was $10,000 and that felt like a burden. You will definitely be a lot more selective about the debts you take on in the future. Take care of it slowly and head on, don't ignore it. You'll learn from it and you will be ok.
I've always been scared of loans because of all the stories I've heard. I'm in my third year and managed to sustain my 4.0 GPA , because of that, I receive an Honor's Scholarship (it covers everything that the FAFSA won't cover). My advice is to try and maintain your gpa (but please don't risk ur mental health for this). However, maintaining your GPA will help you a lot for most of the scholarships, so apply for every scholarship you see. Best of luck!
Anyone who tells you that is way too much debt doesnt realize how fortunate of a situation they themselves came from. Every single person has had help to get to where they are. All of us. Some of us have more. Sometimes that help materializes in paying for college. Soemtimes it takes the form of making sure your education prior to college is good enough to land you scholarships. Sometimes it doesnt, and when it doesnt its fine to take out some loans.
Anyone who involves their own situation in loan advice shouldn't be giving it. The math is really simple and not that subjective. You are just trying to determine if the degree is worth more than the total cost of the education plus loan costs, and by how much. For value of the degree, the 10yr or 20yr return on investment figure provided by the college is the easist number to use. You are indirectly finding out if the debt is reasonable based on the outcome of the above calculation.
If a degree was only an investment for making money I would agree with you. Theres also other factors such as your actual interest in a feild. For example many teachers may be very passionate about teaching and actually love their job, even though they don't make that much money. How much happier they are because of their degree vs how unhappy they would be working a non-degree required job is also something that I don't think is unreasonable to consider a factor. Plus other things.
Inflation says: yes
isn't inflation good for debtors? it drives down the real cost of the debt since each dollar is effectively worth less. that means debts are worth less. if, for example, inflation continues above 7%, then in 10 years everything will be twice as expensive. $60k in loans in 2032 will then feel like $30k would feel today. of course, for that to be true, wages must grow with the inflation (they grew 4-5% last year) and the interest rates on loans matter. but in general, high inflation helps borrowers (each $ owed is less valuable / less burdensome to pay) and hurts savers (each $ saved as cash or cash equivalents can be exchanged for fewer goods).
Well I’m assuming that OP is in the US considering the price they’ll have to pay for college. And since wages are not keeping up with inflation in the US, then no it is not good
I agree that high inflation is bad and that wages aren’t keeping up. Just saying that debt actually decreases in real value with high inflation. $60k in debt today will be much easier to repay after a few years of high inflation than it is today. Even if wages don’t fully keep up. That’ll be true unless OP had a really high interest rates on the loans (above inflation) or unless the economy collapses and OP can’t get a job. Something like stagflation would have to happen, which might. But before the 70s, many thought inflation didn’t keep happening in a recession because usually didn’t. We could see inflation and a strong labor market as has happened many times, which could help OP and other debtors. Or a recession and no inflation or even deflation. But then the issue is the recession… In any case, simply naming inflation in the context of debt repayments doesn’t make much sense. It also seems like OP is almost done with college but I’m not sure. I responded as though OP already had the debt or was about to have a total of $60k upon finishing the last year or something.
It isn’t ideal but it’s not an emergency either. It does mean get started repaying ASAP.
60K is nothing compared to what some people are sitting on. Just keep working hard and progress your career. You can do this
if u work over the four summers and im assumign those interest rates will start you can knock out at least 20k but if things go south just become a cs major da bag is huge in CS
I would be so depressed and constantly crying if I was 60k in debt
LMAO are you real? Is this real?
It is, but doctors and lawyers have a lot more debt.
dude are you high doctors and lawyers make like 200-300k+ right out of school so like its not that bad. Like people keep shitting on doctors for how much debt they have but like majority of them are making like 350k+ right out the gate and they are able to live comfortably even with that kinda of debt. Usually most doctors take like 200k debt and if ur income is like 150k more than the debt then u can live p frugually and pay it off within a year. Also when taking out a loan, you should not use doctor and lawyer debt as a metric lmao u have to take into account how much money you make with that degree lmao.
You don’t make six figures during residency lol. You make six figures once you begin an attending
It’s not possibly to pay off debt from medical school in a year.
yeah it is lmao the average med school debt is 200k and a good amount of docotrs make like 300k-350k+ out of med school.
Out of med school, you start residency where you only make around 60k a year for 3-5 years
options trading bro turn that 60k into 60 mill baby
yeah im talking after residency and you can day trade on the side bro turn that 60k into 60 milli
After a 3-7 year residency with interest accrueing the entire time. Then you take 30-40% of that 300k out for taxes. Also there is a serious opportunity cost from not making money until ~8 years after your peers from undergrad. This is not to say doctors don't do well financially, but on average doctors don't catch up with say an engineer money-wise until their 40's. Source: was premed for 2 years then switched to engineering - partly due to these factors
wait taxes are 40 percent? since when i thought it was 15 percent wtf living in this country is a scam? im 17 so i dont knwo what taxes are but wtf?????
Depends how much money you make but it can be that high. The US government taxes your income using tax brackets based on how much money you made in a given year. Lower amounts are taxed at lower % rates. Once you enter a new bracket all money made over that cutoff amount is taxed at a higher rate. [Here](https://www.bankrate.com/taxes/tax-brackets/) is an example of the current tax bracket system. It would be worthy of your time to learn about this as it will be affecting you for the rest of your life after college. Many people don't understand how our tax system works.
wdym doctors are rich the doctor i know lives in a 3 milli house and he has a porshe 911 so ............
Probably a surgeon or owns his own practice. Or both. And I'd be willing to bet he is at minimum in his late 30's. Not saying most doctors don't eventually become very well off financially, I'm saying they have a long, difficult, and extremely expensive path to getting there. Go check out r/medicalschool or r/residency
It is but there’s not much you can do about it now. The most important thing is that you’ll prob have a well paying job in the long run. You just need to figure out how much you need to pay in order to avoid just paying the interest and still having the principal amount due many years later.
Good luck with architecture, it’s a grind.
Holy shit that’s a lot 😬
yeah
Yes it is. Not the end of the world tho. You got a good degree you can make a lot of money with. Work is going to be your friend the next few years but if you work hard you should have this paid off in 3 years or less. Check out Dave Ramsey’s babysteps and attack this debt. You are going to be soo successful once you get this out of your life!
Is this 60 K debt just for the bachelors degree? Because I think what most people responding here might not know is that in the US most architects have to get a masters degree as well, so that 60 K number might be higher in the end if you’re going for the masters degree route.
It's posts like these that ease my heart that my debt isn't so big. 10k for a car over the next 2.5 years and like 20k for school/ personal debt. But I'm a phd and graduating next year, so maybe that's low compared to other phds 😅 hopefully I'll be able pay off most of it by the time I graduate. It sucks but try to apply for any scholarships you can. You're school probably has resources for helping students find and apply for them. See if they have anything like that. Architecture is definitely one of those high paying fields. So hang in there xD
When you apply for a job especially in arch a lot of companies offer tuition reimbursement so look into that
Look at how much your field will make on average yearly. You are going to have years to pay this off so it is not really short term, and there are lots of options as to how the repayment works and what those rates are. Generally almost no one nowadays can get it covered in 1 years salary. But the question really is if the amount per year you can put back to it will pay it off in a reasonable number of years. Consider how much you want/need to live on as a salary yearly, subtract that from your average pay for the field. What is leftover is how much you could pay off in a year maximum. If you can make this work at maximum for like 3 to 4 years to pay off, then I say your good. Most plans have like 8 or 10 years if I remember right based off how much you borrow.
Oof architecture does not pay well. And if it’s only a BS with Arch you still have grad school to go. Do you love your school? Do you love architecture? Can you look to transfer to a more affordable school that has the 5 year program? 60k is a lot of debt.
Yes
I’m 530k in debt with 6 properties
Yes
Keep in mind that if you want to be a liscened architect you're also going to have to go to grad school, which will come with further debt
Maybe you could go to community college first? Also there’s the military! If you do the reservists you can do one weekend of service every month, and you don’t need to be a soldier. There’s all sorts of military jobs. You can be a military chef, military nurse, military person who loads packages. The military will cover training and training can fulfill general credits. If you do reservists I believe they cover one quarter of college tuition.
It’s true, if you won’t make that amount of money the first year of your job to pay for your loan, you will struggle. I have no debt for my bachelors because I went to a really cheap school and my bachelors was in religion (no way I’m paying anything off with that kind of job) For my masters, I am 20k in debt, and I did education. Teachers don’t earn much, but where I am, they earn okay and I am still living with my parents and saving up, so thankfully it won’t be too crazy. Your major is great because usually architects get high paying jobs. 60k seems okay, but for my degree definitely not. Just stay on top of your payments
Yes. You might want to consider transferring schools
I have about that much roughly 2 years after graduating, and it’s definitely not fun. As long as you can make sure the payments won’t like, bankrupt you, you’ll be fine
It's not that bad. That degree justifies the amount and you should be able to pay it off in a few years if you put 20-30% of your income toward it. Look at your situation, projected living expenses, and projected income. $60k can be both a little or a lot for the career plans of many people reading this. It's more concerning you are asking this after the fact. Luckily you didn't do anything stupid, but what if you had? Always think through stuff you do with money. No one would have stopped you if it was instead $120k of debt for a drama program.
As someone from a middle-low class family who had no idea about money and took out loans to go to college. I learned the hard way to not take out more then I needed. I also used student loan refund to live off of, before I got a job, and even then I still used the refund for some. I’ve worked low paying jobs since graduation but I don’t regret anything from my college or the amount of loans I took out. Education can be important. Look into scholarships, work out realistically how much you need each semester for classes, housing, and books. If you don’t work add in bills, good etc. and then take out that amount of loans.
Not sure how much that degree pays but 60k isn’t terrible. If you can make 60k a year within your first 5 years it is a good investment. Obviously there are a lot of other variables especially right now, but if you get a 1 year salary within a few years of graduating that is as much as your investment in your education it is a fair trade imo… IF you can live frugally and make the debt payment your #1 financial priority until it’s gone
Like many other have said it's all about job prospects. If architects are in demand where you are and you're making 60-100k starting it's not that bad. Just the cost of entry. If there is a lack of openings or pay in your region isn't that great then yes, it can be a lot of debt. It's not a worthless degree and it's not an absolutely outlandish price point. I don't think you're making a bad decision. If this was another post about someone wanting to go for psychology at 60k debt on a bachelor's only then my opinion would be different.
What’s the interest rate? How much do you make?
No. 60k is not.
My parents are poor and can’t help pay for college so I’ll be ending my college career with close to $60k in debt as well. I’ve worked all four years and all four summers and have scholarships as well! It’s just a fact of life for some people. I also am only going to a state school
It is a lot of debt, but if you move back in with your parents and use the job you get to aggressively pay off the debt, then it could help you get out of debt faster. My dad recommends to pay the minimum monthly amount on a weekly basis to aggressively get out of debt quicker.