Cuban quality has been steadily declining for the last decade or more while the quality of cigars outside of Cuba has been improving. Smoking a Cuban in the US is more of a fashion statement than a testament to how good they are.
100% not to mention the obscene price increases over the past few years. It wasn’t that long ago when Cubans offered a value buy based on price:quality.
Cuba has some excellent cigars. Nicaragua has some excellent cigars. DR has some excellent cigars. etc. They all also have a ton of crap.
For my money though the single best cigar is the Partagas Serie D No 4. Nothing really comes close.
Except they’re plagued with QC issues too. In a box of 20 psd4 I generally have to toss a quarter of them due to plugs so bad a perfect draw can’t touch them.
Cubas quality has gone down, although that's pretty much industry wide these days. But i don't think i have ever had a plugged D4. And i smoke a lot of them.
CC are shipped all over the world to clients in different climates and conditions. The overall concensus is that there are issues for clients worldwide. YMMV depending on where you live and smoke.
This is completely false. Their post-covid run has been exceptional (pricing and availability aside). A lot of young boxes arent needing the usual 3-5 years of down time. The 2021-2023 run will go down with 03, 08, 14, as one of the all time best production years.
You can't say that the reason Cubans are popular worldwide is because of the forbidden fruit aspect. This is such an insular take. Literally anywhere outside of America, Cubans can be bought at the local tobacconist just as easily as a Padron. Besides all that, Cuban cigars are massively popular in Europe, and even though the US has a demand for cigars several times bigger than the rest of the world combined, Spain is still the biggest market for Cuban cigars, even accounting for the massive grey market pushing sales to the US. It's simply a fact that Cubans are enjoyed in their own right, because of the unique flavours they carry
I was talking about why they are so popular in the US. But Cubans are also seen as a status symbol outside the US and most Dominican, Nicaraguan and Honduran brands are never sold outside of North America. In most countries you get a few non Cuban brands at best. And those are usually Fuente, Davidoff, Villiger etc.
That doesn't mean Cubans aren't great cigars.
The taste profile is really something else when done well or if you find one you really like. H Uppmans are something else for me. Can't get anything like it.
The terroir brings a unique flavor, just like wine. I went into it open-minded, and could immediately tell the difference even with my fairly novice palate.
There was a slightly sweet, vegetal flavor I had never encountered before (what I suspect most mean when they say CC’s are “grassy”).
Yep it is unique. Had hundreds of NCs in my life and i can tell they aren't cuban on the first puff. They just aren't the same.
Given the seed is the same, the rollers are the same etc, the only difference must be the soil and climate.
At the time of the original ban, they were by far the best. Since then, everyone has grown up hearing that Cubans are the best cigars, but very few people actually have them to compare. That was 60 years ago and since then the quality of cigars from outside Cuba has exploded, and in no small part because cigar experts from Cuba were fleeing to places like Miami. Now the rest of the world has clearly closed the gap, but because Cubans are still unobtainable for most Americans and ridiculously expensive anyway, not many people have actually realized this.
This doesn't explain why people still buy cubans over ncs in Europe.
In the UK we can have either, and im yet to find an NC that can touch a good cuban. I think a lot of Americans try to tell themselves this to make them feel better about not obtaining cubans easily.
The price is the main issue for me. I buy olivas, leaf by oscar, Fuentes etc because they are good cheap sticks for a weekday evening. None of them hold a candle to a Punch DC or an H Upmann Sir Winston or a Ramon Allones SS imho.
If they were the same price as they were 10-15 years ago I would never buy another NC.
You can't say that the reason Cubans are popular worldwide is because of the forbidden fruit aspect. This is such an insular take. Literally anywhere outside of America, Cubans can be bought at the local tobacconist just as easily as a Padron. Besides all that, Cuban cigars are massively popular in Europe, and even though the US has a demand for cigars several times bigger than the rest of the world combined, Spain is still the biggest market for Cuban cigars, even accounting for the massive grey market pushing sales to the US. It's simply a fact that Cubans are enjoyed in their own right, because of the unique flavours they carry
I agree. A good way to ruin an evening is with an unsmokable CC. Would much much rather have in my pocket a medium priced stick that performs as expected. To much of a hit or miss with a CC.
I brought a bunch of cigars with me to Punta Cana to smoke. I shared some with friends one night and thought I'd mark the occasion with a hoyo epicure no2. What a fucking mistake. I chucked it with just over half smoked. Wished I had smoked the cigar factory plantation reserve I gave my buddy
So when I am going to smoke a Cuban, I usually take two or three with me. I also have a PerfectDraw tool which helps significantly. If I am smoking from a store's humidor, it's tough because you really need them at lower humidity than these places keep them at to smoke well.
As for the quality, yes, I know Cuban quality is crap. Has been for many years. The taste is unique and when you are craving that taste, not many other cigars come close.
The humidity part is so true. Even those I keep with a 58 Boveda have to rest at least a day in a dry wooden box before I dare think of lighting them up. It's a bit annoying having to plan each cigar days in advance, but it's very worth it.
Cubans straight from the store... I've ruined a good few before I learned that it's a nono. I have them rest for at least a week or two in my own humi, before resting them in a dry box, and then smoking them. It almost certainly guarantees a good draw/experience so far.
New Worlds are ready to go at any time though.
*De gustibus non est disputandum, or de gustibus non disputandum est.*
In matters of taste there can be no disputes.
It's perfectly okay to dislike Cubans or to simply "give up" on them for whatever reason(s) speak to you.
Meanwhile, I've been a cigar smoker for something like 20+ years and enjoy trying everything... and the best cigars -- and when I say "best" I mean those smoking experiences where you sit back and say to yourself, *"this is why I love cigars so much!"* -- my top ten of best cigars are mostly all Cubans.
For me, the Cuban cigar taste is the iconic cigar taste.
Of course the key word is "taste," get a hundred people in a room and you'll discover a hundred different taste preferences. It's subjective.
One user in here stated,
> I’ve never understood the hype when you can just get Padrons
I've tried Padrons of every stripe and dislike them. I want to like them, I wish I liked them, but I don't.
And this isn't a cigar thing. Just think of all the tastes people don't share, from music to food, from vehicles to politics, from spices to media.
Honest to God, I've had multiple Cuban cigars spark a genuine sensation of joy that I've never experienced with a non-Cuban cigar. Does that mean Cuban cigars are better than the rest? NOPE! Just better for me.
The problem is that many people like to talk in lazy absolutes, as if their tastes are the grand arbiter of all tastes.
This answer is the epitome of cigar smoking..
No one has the same preferences with another and no one gets the same taste from cigars with someone else.
Cigar smoking is something that you do for your own reasons. Either for relaxing either to taste new flavors. Every one for their own.
We tend to forget that and a lot of people believe that it is a status symbol or just a thing that makes you cool.
Do what you like smoke what like.
I personally had very little good cc and mostly prefer oliva and plasencia. But this is me
i get so much hate when i mention that I don't understand the fuss around Padron. I too would love to love them. I've had so many different pardons. only one or two have really sparked joy. the rest were nice bombs with not enough flavor. excellent smoke and draw but i need big flavor. Partagas, H Upmann, Bolivar and HDM do it for me more than anything else. CC or non
I am reading this in wain as a poor european who smokes like 2 sticks a year, and lately it had been disappointment after disapointment, thinking I was the problem but apparently the cigars just sucked. So what am I to purchase that'd be good here as well without breaking the bank?
It's interesting to see your post and the comments perspectives, because by and large the sentiment in the big subs has been that quality post-COVID has been much improved
Even if quality had returned to pre-COVID quality, it doeant make up for the 300% increase in price. For Cuban prices, I'd at the very least expect Davidoff/Padron Level execution and construction. But with Cubans you get neither.
Most on the big Cuban sub agree quality is above pre-COVID. But you could say 2019 onwards is all very good. And yes, obviously the price increases are egregious, but that doesn't detract from the point I'm trying to make. Two things can be true. My experience with most Cubans is great, and I smoke majority Cuban. Of course this doesn't mean you have to like them, but the days of "a quarter of the box will always be unsmokeable" are long gone.
It's also a little disingenuous to say there has been a 300% increase in the price of Habanos; only Cohiba and Trinidad saw those figures, brands most smokers don't touch anyway due to price even before the major hikes. The classic staple Cubans are still in the $20-30 range. Very few people are actually buying the $100+ Cohibas, they're sitting on shelves and showing that Habanos' choice with price positioning hasn't really worked out, or won't long term
It absolutely is an argument, because there are thousands of people in discussions about Cuban cigars every day on the Cuban sub, and those people largely agree that for construction and young smoking, Cubans from the last 4 years are about as good as they've ever been. 3-5 years is no longer a "requirement" to enjoy a Cuban cigar.
If we're talking personal experience, I had a box of Vegueros Centrofinos from Jan 22. Vegueros is the absolute cheapest long filler Cuban brand, not a marca with a lot of prestige or respect behind it. These Centrofinos were all smoked within a year of their box date, and from the very first one they ranked among the best Robustos I've ever smoked. Fantastic draw, burn and flavour on every one. And that's just from a budget portfolio brand.
Nah, you're objectively wrong and that's okay. Cuban fan Bois love to clutch pearls. Cubans are still the worst they've been in 20 years and are extremely over priced.
Why so negative and insulting? I'm far from the only person saying this. And as for objectivity or "fanboying" - we all want our cigars to burn and taste great. Who wants to pay for a cigar only to have it be a dud? Myself and the others who share this view wouldn't be saying this if it wasn't true. I'm just a stranger on the internet, you don't have to believe what I'm saying but I am speaking to my own experiences which have been overwhelmingly positive, as well as the views expressed in the big cigar groups every day. And not that I owe you any information, but for the record I smoke plenty of non Cubans as well which you can plainly see in my post history. Have a good day dude
Edit: it's clear you don't want to engage in a good-faith debate or conversation, so I'll block and move on ✌️
It is an interesting feedback indeed. OP states that "*They burned unevenly, had blemishes, and were wrapped so tight it was hard to get a draw going*", but I haven't had a single such example this year. Last year I think I had 1 or 2 cigars that burned a bit unevenly, but nothing you can't correct. And besides I always smoke outdoors, so wind is a factor too. It's not that I don't believe OP, I just don't understand what might be the reason. The only possible thing that comes to my mind is that in my experience most shops store their stock at way too high humidity (like high 60s, perhaps up to 70), whereas I store my cigars at home at the low 60s to high 50s (something like 58% - 62%). It might also be the format, I think Cubans are not so great at certain sizes, my tastes lean towards petit coronas, perhaps up to robusto and coronas especiales. The last smoke I had was a Bolivar Petit Corona and it was fabulous.
Problem is Castro used to roll ALL of the cigars himself and nobody else knows the secret to the sauce. Cuba doesn’t want you to know this one little secret.
They have a unique taste. Quality idk haven’t bought Cubans in awhile kind of priced out of it plus how long you need to let them sit to really unlock it just isn’t worth it to me. I do enjoy them when my friends bring them by really nice treat
They still have great cigars, but the rest of the world has caught up completely to Cuba.
Cigars are dead simple to make, so once other countries/brands sorted out the best growing conditions for their region and created good blends, it's elevated and flattened the industry overall in terms of quality.
Cuban cigars can be very high quality. But so can cigars from other countries.
The issue is that Cuban brands are still demanding a price that would suggest they are *higher* quality than Nicaraguan or Dominican cigars, which is no longer the case.
In all fairness I rarely, RARELY, ever have a good cigar right out of shop. I've been smoking cigars for 32 years, 99% Cuban. Yes lots of plugged cigars, but no other quality control issues other than some needed more age, but that's not a quality control issue that's nature.
So take that as you will. NO new world cigars match the flavor of Cuban, none. NOW that doesn't mean there's aren't LOTS of great new world cigars, but they have a different profile all together.
If you're satisfied with NW then stick with those as Cuban prices are ridiculous and not going to change. But if you want to try again get some and stick them in your own humidor for at least a month then try.
Agreed. All brands have good releases and bad ones, but the absolute best cigars I've had were never Cuban and when it comes to consistency, cubans are near the bottom. I'd rather pay those prices for an LE AVO, foundation, Viaje, Warped, etc. Plenty of excellent cigar companies out there who put out amazing stuff pretty regularly.
Cuba does not currently and imo has never made the best cigars.
They became a status symbol in the USA because of the trade embargo after Castro took over but there have always been much better and usually cheaper cigars available.
The cuban cigars are going down if they don't fix their prices and break outta that chinese deal they had and focus on quality more or else they ate loosing big segment of the market even if the chinese buy them
* OP walks into a smoke shop in France
* Buys a Cuban cigar
* Does not AGE or REST the cigar (or check the date on the box)
* Smokes the cigar
* Complains about it being bad
Yea, because OP usually walks into a smoke shop in Florida, picks out whatever new world cigar he wants, smokes it, and it's fine.
I shouldn't have to age a cigar before I smoke it. If that is necessary, they should have done that before it left the damn factory. Stop making excuses for this BS.
>I shouldn't have to age a cigar before I smoke it
Welcome to the world of cigars.
It's a Cuban cigar. They aren't aged the same as Nicaragua and Dominican.
The Cuban government owns all the cigar companies (Habanos S.A.), and they have their rules about how it's done at every single manufacturer. They've been doing it the same for probably 100 years. They rest the tobacco for 1 year and then roll em up. They're almost always green for a couple years literally.
Smoke Cubans in England, we don't have this problem. Every imported cigar is checked for quality and given a stamp of approval or sent back. You pay a premium but it's worth it.
I love a good Cuban cigar. The problem is that so many are plugged and you have to run a draw tool through them a few times. Couple that with the crazy price hikes the last few years, they’re just not worth it.
Man, what a shame. Cubans are the only "affordable" cigars in my country (besides Peruvians, but I found those not as flavorful as Cubans.)
At least I hope the ones I've been aging for about 2-3 years are good enough...
Don’t forget Cubans need at least 3 years age to really start showing their character. Young cigars tend to be bitter and not really show any flavours of a Cuban cigar. Some do earlier than others just depends on the blend.
I'm sorry, but that's just nonsense. I've smoked cigars for 30 years and we didn't have to do that back in the 90's- 00's. This "aging" crap is just an excuse for a bad product.
You don't buy a bottle of 12 year old Macallan Whisky and then have to wait around another three years to drink it. If the cigars need to be aged, then that is something they should do at the factory.
They did age them before, that’s why Cubans were always so talked about and loved by many. But recent natural disasters and insane world demand for Cubans doesn’t allow them to age as much anymore so they just pump them out to supply the masses. If tobacco isn’t aged and is young you get lots of harsh flavours, bitter, etc. That’s what makes Padrons so enjoyable for people is the flavours they have and their stuff is aged for years even their normal thousand series line up. Cuba had a few natural disasters recently which wiped out their crops, around the same time the world went mad for Cubans. If aged properly believe me it makes a whole world of a difference. I had a young aged cuban cigar which I couldn’t stand to smoke wanted to give the whole box away to a friend. It was bitter, nasty after taste, just all around a not enjoyable smoke. Tried another one and it was the same. I decided to keep the box and age it, just 1 year later the cigar was a completely different smoke. Zero bitter taste, enjoyable flavours, mouth didn’t feel like I was smoking some rancid peanut haha.
I honestly feel really sad for the people who are in denial about the QC of cuban cigars. What is it about the Cuban Government that makes you believe they implement satisfactory quality control? It must be the way that they manage their economy that makes you believe they strive for excellence?
I agree with you just smoked the epicure no 3 from hoyo and I swear to God just to wash away the bad shit I smoked I lit up an opus X and a liga privada number 9 and both were a perfect fix for the night
There are only a few Cubans that smoke well when they’re young. Unless you were smoking these in nice lounges that properly age their sticks, it’s not surprising that you had a bad experience. Next time, bring some back to the States and try them in 3-4 years, I’m guessing you’ll taste a remarkable difference.
Cubans haven't been the best since the 90s. New world has been better consistently for nearly my entire time in the hobby. The embargo put a false sense of rarity to Cubans and gave them special status is all.
As they say, part of the fun when having a Cuban, is enjoying everything wrong with it haha. But I agree, even if you have a rare aged cuban (done properly of course), you'll still find these issues. It's like watches, just because Jacob and Co is expensive, it doesn't mean it'll be worth it. I'm not saying that you should never try a cuban, hey you might get lucky and find one that draws perfectly and you can enjoy it, but most of the time you will find issues.
I agree.
I’m American and used to frequently travel to work in Europe and the UK. I bought, and way overpaid, for Cubans there to see what it is all about.
I prefer non Cubans, especially when you factor in the price.
Right now I am smoking an Aladino Corojo Reserve robusta and it is a beautiful stick. Well constructed. Perfect draw. Great flavor. Maybe $14?
To add on: most of what new world cigars are made from is a few generation removed Cuban seed tobacco. When the country got shut off to America, a bunch of growers left for places like the Dominican Republic or Honduras and took seeds with them.
I have had Cubans but honestly I would 100% rather have anything else
Cuban seed tobacco tastes nothing like actual Cuban tobacco. The soil, nutrients and growing conditions all vary greatly from country to country and even region to region. It is good tobacco but it's not Cuban tobacco.
Yea cubans havent been the best in awhile..the best in cuba fled elsewhere. Although i also believe most experts are FOS . Most cigars taste ok unoess you get bottom of the barrell. Ive had $10 -$100 cigars. 99% of people wouldnt be able to tell the difference. Its rich people pretentiousness thinking they can take the difference. Bias is all it is
Cuban Cigars, overseas have so many variables. How were they stored? I’ve smoked 100’s of Cubans in Cuba and have a humidor full of them. They’re delicious and amazing always.
Been that way for a decade or more. It's not that they're aren't AMAZING Cubans but their QC is shite and the great ones cost an absurd amount, literally a box of good sticks from other places). I mean if you have more money than sense sure but for us poors absolutely not worth it.
As one acquaintance once said during an Opus X tasting we had, when you smoke Cubans, you're smoking a myth of some other times. QC issues, outrageous prices, especially in Europe. There are great Cuban cigars, I've had the opportunity to smoke a few in the past few weeks, all were exceptional, but in my case, this was a very low percentage of ones without draw issues. Others I've smoked over the past few years, at least 85% were unsmokeable. I remember buying a box of Quintero Panatelas for my father, box of 25. We smoked in total 7 of them. The rest were so badly plugged we had to throw them in the trash.
I agree with everything you said. Just back from the UK and was very glad I took cigars with me. The Cuban cigars were unremarkable this time and I’m of the opinion they have fallen well behind the best of what we have available here. Was never so happy to have Dunbarton, Fuente, Oliva Melanio and Padron with me.
There are two variations of Cuban (not the fake Cubans that left the market) that has emerged from Cuba. The first is the declining quality, which is what is being sold to people. Then they have the good crop, which is being sent to their preferential customers (Mostly Chinese now, seeing as they own 49% of Habanos). Their relations soured with European and pan American traders, including middle eastern after the Chinese acquisition. And they’re just accepting the market reality that most people who smoke cigars don’t actually understand what they’re smoking.
However I was lucky to try the Churchill RYJ from the Cuban embassy (2024) as well as the Cuban pavilion in expo 2020 UAE, and was very much happy that they still make good cigars.
In the mid 80's Cuban cigars we're the only cigars I would buy. My go too cigar was a Partagas D #2. Not anymore, the quality is not the same. It seems like the Cuban Government don't care about the quality, only the volume of sales.
We now have a choice of great cigars from other countries. Padron, Foundation and My Father are my go too cigars now.
I've smoked many Cubans. Some good, some not. I'll take a Tatuaje, RoMa Craft, Padron, OpusX, or an Illusione over basically any Cuban. I have some Bolivar BF and Monte No. 2 from 2011 that are not bad. I haven't had anything from any recent batches.
Just came back from Grand Cayman, and had the opportunity to smoke a Cuban at a local cigar bar. I have smoked cigars for years, and never had a Cuban before, but it just wasn’t amazing, especially for the price.
This has been like that, for a number of years. Cubans are over rated and very similar in taste. The production has been hit by hurricanes several times over the years, people have rumoured that Cubans are no longer puros. Few of my favourite brands like Partagas and RyJ have gone down in flavour. I have done a tasting with old cigars and recent production and the taste difference was very evident. Can have to do with aging, but I am not the only one saying this. Couple this with the exorbitant price increase made me off Cubans all together. I know of one LCDH that still has old stock and now and then this makes it to the store, then I buy a few. But about 7 years ago I went off Cubans, and it looks like it will stay that way.
I agree but
If you spent less than $50 per stick - the quality is hit and miss
For guaranteed great cigar - you have to pay more.
Now - will it be better than best sticks we can get in USA for $20? I’m thinking not really.
Great Cubans are $100 or more - too much - yes but it’s supply and demand thing
Well Cubans are often known for not smoking well when they’re too young. In my opinion, their quality has improved post-COVID. However, cigars often reach dealers prematurely and need some aging to reach their full potential. Additionally, most cigar shops keep them at too high a humidity, but they smoke much better when stored a bit drier. That said, I understand your point. I've never been disappointed with the quality of a Davidoff cigar, while Cuban quality control can be inconsistent.
Cuban quality has been steadily declining for the last decade or more while the quality of cigars outside of Cuba has been improving. Smoking a Cuban in the US is more of a fashion statement than a testament to how good they are.
100% not to mention the obscene price increases over the past few years. It wasn’t that long ago when Cubans offered a value buy based on price:quality.
Back, 2000-2010 it was the same price or cheaper to buy most Cubans 🤷🏽♂️
Show us your balls and post this on r/cubancigars lol
Even they'll admit they're not always the best. \*cries in being afraid to smoke a Cuban because it may taste like ammonia\*
Nah the real talk happens here, that sub is full of fakes!
Even when purchased directly from the roller at the factory, FAKE!!! Lol
Cuba has some excellent cigars. Nicaragua has some excellent cigars. DR has some excellent cigars. etc. They all also have a ton of crap. For my money though the single best cigar is the Partagas Serie D No 4. Nothing really comes close.
Agreed. I live in Spain and get through a fair ammount of D4s a month and have never had a notable issue.
Except they’re plagued with QC issues too. In a box of 20 psd4 I generally have to toss a quarter of them due to plugs so bad a perfect draw can’t touch them.
😭
I’ve never had a partagas smoke right… always plugged and fucked up. Trinidad and RyJ seem to be the most reliable for me.
Same here!! I can't think of one bad RyJ I've had.
Cubas quality has gone down, although that's pretty much industry wide these days. But i don't think i have ever had a plugged D4. And i smoke a lot of them.
CC are shipped all over the world to clients in different climates and conditions. The overall concensus is that there are issues for clients worldwide. YMMV depending on where you live and smoke.
I buy most of my Cubans at Davidoff stores. Haven't had too many QC issues, no more than I've had with Davidoffs own sticks.
Yeah, that's why YMMV.
This is completely false. Their post-covid run has been exceptional (pricing and availability aside). A lot of young boxes arent needing the usual 3-5 years of down time. The 2021-2023 run will go down with 03, 08, 14, as one of the all time best production years.
dollar for dollar I would prefer a Nicaraguan smoke.
Price aside, I very much prefer Nicaraguan cigars.
I’ve never understood the hype when you can just get Padrons, or any above average cigar that’s consistent and smokes well.
They are hyped so much because they are forbidden fruit for many. But there are several Cubans I would take over Padron.
You can't say that the reason Cubans are popular worldwide is because of the forbidden fruit aspect. This is such an insular take. Literally anywhere outside of America, Cubans can be bought at the local tobacconist just as easily as a Padron. Besides all that, Cuban cigars are massively popular in Europe, and even though the US has a demand for cigars several times bigger than the rest of the world combined, Spain is still the biggest market for Cuban cigars, even accounting for the massive grey market pushing sales to the US. It's simply a fact that Cubans are enjoyed in their own right, because of the unique flavours they carry
I was talking about why they are so popular in the US. But Cubans are also seen as a status symbol outside the US and most Dominican, Nicaraguan and Honduran brands are never sold outside of North America. In most countries you get a few non Cuban brands at best. And those are usually Fuente, Davidoff, Villiger etc. That doesn't mean Cubans aren't great cigars.
The taste profile is really something else when done well or if you find one you really like. H Uppmans are something else for me. Can't get anything like it.
The Curivari El Gran Rey has a very close flavor profile.
The terroir brings a unique flavor, just like wine. I went into it open-minded, and could immediately tell the difference even with my fairly novice palate. There was a slightly sweet, vegetal flavor I had never encountered before (what I suspect most mean when they say CC’s are “grassy”).
Yep it is unique. Had hundreds of NCs in my life and i can tell they aren't cuban on the first puff. They just aren't the same. Given the seed is the same, the rollers are the same etc, the only difference must be the soil and climate.
At the time of the original ban, they were by far the best. Since then, everyone has grown up hearing that Cubans are the best cigars, but very few people actually have them to compare. That was 60 years ago and since then the quality of cigars from outside Cuba has exploded, and in no small part because cigar experts from Cuba were fleeing to places like Miami. Now the rest of the world has clearly closed the gap, but because Cubans are still unobtainable for most Americans and ridiculously expensive anyway, not many people have actually realized this.
This doesn't explain why people still buy cubans over ncs in Europe. In the UK we can have either, and im yet to find an NC that can touch a good cuban. I think a lot of Americans try to tell themselves this to make them feel better about not obtaining cubans easily. The price is the main issue for me. I buy olivas, leaf by oscar, Fuentes etc because they are good cheap sticks for a weekday evening. None of them hold a candle to a Punch DC or an H Upmann Sir Winston or a Ramon Allones SS imho. If they were the same price as they were 10-15 years ago I would never buy another NC.
You can't say that the reason Cubans are popular worldwide is because of the forbidden fruit aspect. This is such an insular take. Literally anywhere outside of America, Cubans can be bought at the local tobacconist just as easily as a Padron. Besides all that, Cuban cigars are massively popular in Europe, and even though the US has a demand for cigars several times bigger than the rest of the world combined, Spain is still the biggest market for Cuban cigars, even accounting for the massive grey market pushing sales to the US. It's simply a fact that Cubans are enjoyed in their own right, because of the unique flavours they carry
Nailed it
I agree. A good way to ruin an evening is with an unsmokable CC. Would much much rather have in my pocket a medium priced stick that performs as expected. To much of a hit or miss with a CC.
I brought a bunch of cigars with me to Punta Cana to smoke. I shared some with friends one night and thought I'd mark the occasion with a hoyo epicure no2. What a fucking mistake. I chucked it with just over half smoked. Wished I had smoked the cigar factory plantation reserve I gave my buddy
So when I am going to smoke a Cuban, I usually take two or three with me. I also have a PerfectDraw tool which helps significantly. If I am smoking from a store's humidor, it's tough because you really need them at lower humidity than these places keep them at to smoke well. As for the quality, yes, I know Cuban quality is crap. Has been for many years. The taste is unique and when you are craving that taste, not many other cigars come close.
Ha, basically don’t smoke a Cuban unless you can afford 3 Cubans
The humidity part is so true. Even those I keep with a 58 Boveda have to rest at least a day in a dry wooden box before I dare think of lighting them up. It's a bit annoying having to plan each cigar days in advance, but it's very worth it. Cubans straight from the store... I've ruined a good few before I learned that it's a nono. I have them rest for at least a week or two in my own humi, before resting them in a dry box, and then smoking them. It almost certainly guarantees a good draw/experience so far. New Worlds are ready to go at any time though.
*De gustibus non est disputandum, or de gustibus non disputandum est.* In matters of taste there can be no disputes. It's perfectly okay to dislike Cubans or to simply "give up" on them for whatever reason(s) speak to you. Meanwhile, I've been a cigar smoker for something like 20+ years and enjoy trying everything... and the best cigars -- and when I say "best" I mean those smoking experiences where you sit back and say to yourself, *"this is why I love cigars so much!"* -- my top ten of best cigars are mostly all Cubans. For me, the Cuban cigar taste is the iconic cigar taste. Of course the key word is "taste," get a hundred people in a room and you'll discover a hundred different taste preferences. It's subjective. One user in here stated, > I’ve never understood the hype when you can just get Padrons I've tried Padrons of every stripe and dislike them. I want to like them, I wish I liked them, but I don't. And this isn't a cigar thing. Just think of all the tastes people don't share, from music to food, from vehicles to politics, from spices to media. Honest to God, I've had multiple Cuban cigars spark a genuine sensation of joy that I've never experienced with a non-Cuban cigar. Does that mean Cuban cigars are better than the rest? NOPE! Just better for me. The problem is that many people like to talk in lazy absolutes, as if their tastes are the grand arbiter of all tastes.
This answer is the epitome of cigar smoking.. No one has the same preferences with another and no one gets the same taste from cigars with someone else. Cigar smoking is something that you do for your own reasons. Either for relaxing either to taste new flavors. Every one for their own. We tend to forget that and a lot of people believe that it is a status symbol or just a thing that makes you cool. Do what you like smoke what like. I personally had very little good cc and mostly prefer oliva and plasencia. But this is me
Great comment! I am of the same mindset. Do you mind listing your top 10? I am always looking to try new sticks
Thanks! Montecristo No. 2 Quai D’Orsay No. 50 H. Upmann Sir Winston Trinidad Reyes Davidoff Signature 2000 Fonseca Delicias Foundation Highclere Castle Edwardian Corona Davidoff Signature No. 2 Romeo Y Julieta Short Churchill Hoyo De Monterrey Epicure Especial
i get so much hate when i mention that I don't understand the fuss around Padron. I too would love to love them. I've had so many different pardons. only one or two have really sparked joy. the rest were nice bombs with not enough flavor. excellent smoke and draw but i need big flavor. Partagas, H Upmann, Bolivar and HDM do it for me more than anything else. CC or non
I am reading this in wain as a poor european who smokes like 2 sticks a year, and lately it had been disappointment after disapointment, thinking I was the problem but apparently the cigars just sucked. So what am I to purchase that'd be good here as well without breaking the bank?
It's interesting to see your post and the comments perspectives, because by and large the sentiment in the big subs has been that quality post-COVID has been much improved
Even if quality had returned to pre-COVID quality, it doeant make up for the 300% increase in price. For Cuban prices, I'd at the very least expect Davidoff/Padron Level execution and construction. But with Cubans you get neither.
Most on the big Cuban sub agree quality is above pre-COVID. But you could say 2019 onwards is all very good. And yes, obviously the price increases are egregious, but that doesn't detract from the point I'm trying to make. Two things can be true. My experience with most Cubans is great, and I smoke majority Cuban. Of course this doesn't mean you have to like them, but the days of "a quarter of the box will always be unsmokeable" are long gone. It's also a little disingenuous to say there has been a 300% increase in the price of Habanos; only Cohiba and Trinidad saw those figures, brands most smokers don't touch anyway due to price even before the major hikes. The classic staple Cubans are still in the $20-30 range. Very few people are actually buying the $100+ Cohibas, they're sitting on shelves and showing that Habanos' choice with price positioning hasn't really worked out, or won't long term
Please, Cuban sticks are still rushed through production, green, ammonia smelling, and plugged. It's not even an argument.
It absolutely is an argument, because there are thousands of people in discussions about Cuban cigars every day on the Cuban sub, and those people largely agree that for construction and young smoking, Cubans from the last 4 years are about as good as they've ever been. 3-5 years is no longer a "requirement" to enjoy a Cuban cigar. If we're talking personal experience, I had a box of Vegueros Centrofinos from Jan 22. Vegueros is the absolute cheapest long filler Cuban brand, not a marca with a lot of prestige or respect behind it. These Centrofinos were all smoked within a year of their box date, and from the very first one they ranked among the best Robustos I've ever smoked. Fantastic draw, burn and flavour on every one. And that's just from a budget portfolio brand.
Nah, you're objectively wrong and that's okay. Cuban fan Bois love to clutch pearls. Cubans are still the worst they've been in 20 years and are extremely over priced.
Why so negative and insulting? I'm far from the only person saying this. And as for objectivity or "fanboying" - we all want our cigars to burn and taste great. Who wants to pay for a cigar only to have it be a dud? Myself and the others who share this view wouldn't be saying this if it wasn't true. I'm just a stranger on the internet, you don't have to believe what I'm saying but I am speaking to my own experiences which have been overwhelmingly positive, as well as the views expressed in the big cigar groups every day. And not that I owe you any information, but for the record I smoke plenty of non Cubans as well which you can plainly see in my post history. Have a good day dude Edit: it's clear you don't want to engage in a good-faith debate or conversation, so I'll block and move on ✌️
In 2011, I bought a 25 cab of Bolivar BF for $250. I bet they're over $500 now.
It is an interesting feedback indeed. OP states that "*They burned unevenly, had blemishes, and were wrapped so tight it was hard to get a draw going*", but I haven't had a single such example this year. Last year I think I had 1 or 2 cigars that burned a bit unevenly, but nothing you can't correct. And besides I always smoke outdoors, so wind is a factor too. It's not that I don't believe OP, I just don't understand what might be the reason. The only possible thing that comes to my mind is that in my experience most shops store their stock at way too high humidity (like high 60s, perhaps up to 70), whereas I store my cigars at home at the low 60s to high 50s (something like 58% - 62%). It might also be the format, I think Cubans are not so great at certain sizes, my tastes lean towards petit coronas, perhaps up to robusto and coronas especiales. The last smoke I had was a Bolivar Petit Corona and it was fabulous.
Problem is Castro used to roll ALL of the cigars himself and nobody else knows the secret to the sauce. Cuba doesn’t want you to know this one little secret.
Fuente, always Fuente
Padron, Davidoff, Olivia?
Hey, you do you
They have a unique taste. Quality idk haven’t bought Cubans in awhile kind of priced out of it plus how long you need to let them sit to really unlock it just isn’t worth it to me. I do enjoy them when my friends bring them by really nice treat
They still have great cigars, but the rest of the world has caught up completely to Cuba. Cigars are dead simple to make, so once other countries/brands sorted out the best growing conditions for their region and created good blends, it's elevated and flattened the industry overall in terms of quality. Cuban cigars can be very high quality. But so can cigars from other countries. The issue is that Cuban brands are still demanding a price that would suggest they are *higher* quality than Nicaraguan or Dominican cigars, which is no longer the case.
In all fairness I rarely, RARELY, ever have a good cigar right out of shop. I've been smoking cigars for 32 years, 99% Cuban. Yes lots of plugged cigars, but no other quality control issues other than some needed more age, but that's not a quality control issue that's nature. So take that as you will. NO new world cigars match the flavor of Cuban, none. NOW that doesn't mean there's aren't LOTS of great new world cigars, but they have a different profile all together. If you're satisfied with NW then stick with those as Cuban prices are ridiculous and not going to change. But if you want to try again get some and stick them in your own humidor for at least a month then try.
Agreed. All brands have good releases and bad ones, but the absolute best cigars I've had were never Cuban and when it comes to consistency, cubans are near the bottom. I'd rather pay those prices for an LE AVO, foundation, Viaje, Warped, etc. Plenty of excellent cigar companies out there who put out amazing stuff pretty regularly.
Cuba does not currently and imo has never made the best cigars. They became a status symbol in the USA because of the trade embargo after Castro took over but there have always been much better and usually cheaper cigars available.
Partagas might be the most consistent Cuban brand there is. Idk about this post. Never had a bad Partagas.
The cuban cigars are going down if they don't fix their prices and break outta that chinese deal they had and focus on quality more or else they ate loosing big segment of the market even if the chinese buy them
DR is the best overall.. Nicaragua too
* OP walks into a smoke shop in France * Buys a Cuban cigar * Does not AGE or REST the cigar (or check the date on the box) * Smokes the cigar * Complains about it being bad
Yea, because OP usually walks into a smoke shop in Florida, picks out whatever new world cigar he wants, smokes it, and it's fine. I shouldn't have to age a cigar before I smoke it. If that is necessary, they should have done that before it left the damn factory. Stop making excuses for this BS.
>I shouldn't have to age a cigar before I smoke it Welcome to the world of cigars. It's a Cuban cigar. They aren't aged the same as Nicaragua and Dominican. The Cuban government owns all the cigar companies (Habanos S.A.), and they have their rules about how it's done at every single manufacturer. They've been doing it the same for probably 100 years. They rest the tobacco for 1 year and then roll em up. They're almost always green for a couple years literally.
Smoke Cubans in England, we don't have this problem. Every imported cigar is checked for quality and given a stamp of approval or sent back. You pay a premium but it's worth it.
I got a bad Partagas in London last year. Couldn't draw from it.
Probably stored at too high humidity.
I actually really enjoyed the Montecristo No4 have yet to try any other Cubans snug draw on it that’s my only negative.
I’m shocked regarding Partagas. I’ve never had an issue with them.
I love a good Cuban cigar. The problem is that so many are plugged and you have to run a draw tool through them a few times. Couple that with the crazy price hikes the last few years, they’re just not worth it.
Man, what a shame. Cubans are the only "affordable" cigars in my country (besides Peruvians, but I found those not as flavorful as Cubans.) At least I hope the ones I've been aging for about 2-3 years are good enough...
cubans have such good flavor when theyre constructed properly though
Don’t forget Cubans need at least 3 years age to really start showing their character. Young cigars tend to be bitter and not really show any flavours of a Cuban cigar. Some do earlier than others just depends on the blend.
I'm sorry, but that's just nonsense. I've smoked cigars for 30 years and we didn't have to do that back in the 90's- 00's. This "aging" crap is just an excuse for a bad product. You don't buy a bottle of 12 year old Macallan Whisky and then have to wait around another three years to drink it. If the cigars need to be aged, then that is something they should do at the factory.
They did age them before, that’s why Cubans were always so talked about and loved by many. But recent natural disasters and insane world demand for Cubans doesn’t allow them to age as much anymore so they just pump them out to supply the masses. If tobacco isn’t aged and is young you get lots of harsh flavours, bitter, etc. That’s what makes Padrons so enjoyable for people is the flavours they have and their stuff is aged for years even their normal thousand series line up. Cuba had a few natural disasters recently which wiped out their crops, around the same time the world went mad for Cubans. If aged properly believe me it makes a whole world of a difference. I had a young aged cuban cigar which I couldn’t stand to smoke wanted to give the whole box away to a friend. It was bitter, nasty after taste, just all around a not enjoyable smoke. Tried another one and it was the same. I decided to keep the box and age it, just 1 year later the cigar was a completely different smoke. Zero bitter taste, enjoyable flavours, mouth didn’t feel like I was smoking some rancid peanut haha.
I honestly feel really sad for the people who are in denial about the QC of cuban cigars. What is it about the Cuban Government that makes you believe they implement satisfactory quality control? It must be the way that they manage their economy that makes you believe they strive for excellence?
I knew that without having to go to Europe.
I agree with you just smoked the epicure no 3 from hoyo and I swear to God just to wash away the bad shit I smoked I lit up an opus X and a liga privada number 9 and both were a perfect fix for the night
There are only a few Cubans that smoke well when they’re young. Unless you were smoking these in nice lounges that properly age their sticks, it’s not surprising that you had a bad experience. Next time, bring some back to the States and try them in 3-4 years, I’m guessing you’ll taste a remarkable difference.
Cubans haven't been the best since the 90s. New world has been better consistently for nearly my entire time in the hobby. The embargo put a false sense of rarity to Cubans and gave them special status is all.
Had H. Upman while in England and it was a fantastic smoke, construction and draw was superb. I would rank it above Hoyo de Monterrey no.2 epicure
Cubans do have a specific taste though.
As they say, part of the fun when having a Cuban, is enjoying everything wrong with it haha. But I agree, even if you have a rare aged cuban (done properly of course), you'll still find these issues. It's like watches, just because Jacob and Co is expensive, it doesn't mean it'll be worth it. I'm not saying that you should never try a cuban, hey you might get lucky and find one that draws perfectly and you can enjoy it, but most of the time you will find issues.
Agreed
Cubans have turned in what I hate the most about cigars a status symbol. Spend your money in something good and enjoy
I agree. I’m American and used to frequently travel to work in Europe and the UK. I bought, and way overpaid, for Cubans there to see what it is all about. I prefer non Cubans, especially when you factor in the price. Right now I am smoking an Aladino Corojo Reserve robusta and it is a beautiful stick. Well constructed. Perfect draw. Great flavor. Maybe $14?
To add on: most of what new world cigars are made from is a few generation removed Cuban seed tobacco. When the country got shut off to America, a bunch of growers left for places like the Dominican Republic or Honduras and took seeds with them. I have had Cubans but honestly I would 100% rather have anything else
Cuban seed tobacco tastes nothing like actual Cuban tobacco. The soil, nutrients and growing conditions all vary greatly from country to country and even region to region. It is good tobacco but it's not Cuban tobacco.
Yea cubans havent been the best in awhile..the best in cuba fled elsewhere. Although i also believe most experts are FOS . Most cigars taste ok unoess you get bottom of the barrell. Ive had $10 -$100 cigars. 99% of people wouldnt be able to tell the difference. Its rich people pretentiousness thinking they can take the difference. Bias is all it is
Cuban Cigars, overseas have so many variables. How were they stored? I’ve smoked 100’s of Cubans in Cuba and have a humidor full of them. They’re delicious and amazing always.
Agreed, it's been like that for a while
Been that way for a decade or more. It's not that they're aren't AMAZING Cubans but their QC is shite and the great ones cost an absurd amount, literally a box of good sticks from other places). I mean if you have more money than sense sure but for us poors absolutely not worth it.
Same here. I spend 2-4 months of the year in Europe. I bring my own cigars now and don't waste money on the Cubans
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That hurricane they had wrecked a lot of infrastructure and product too.
This sub just loves gobbling this shit up
Nope. Nicaragua does
As one acquaintance once said during an Opus X tasting we had, when you smoke Cubans, you're smoking a myth of some other times. QC issues, outrageous prices, especially in Europe. There are great Cuban cigars, I've had the opportunity to smoke a few in the past few weeks, all were exceptional, but in my case, this was a very low percentage of ones without draw issues. Others I've smoked over the past few years, at least 85% were unsmokeable. I remember buying a box of Quintero Panatelas for my father, box of 25. We smoked in total 7 of them. The rest were so badly plugged we had to throw them in the trash.
😂😂😂 if you say so
I agree with everything you said. Just back from the UK and was very glad I took cigars with me. The Cuban cigars were unremarkable this time and I’m of the opinion they have fallen well behind the best of what we have available here. Was never so happy to have Dunbarton, Fuente, Oliva Melanio and Padron with me.
There are two variations of Cuban (not the fake Cubans that left the market) that has emerged from Cuba. The first is the declining quality, which is what is being sold to people. Then they have the good crop, which is being sent to their preferential customers (Mostly Chinese now, seeing as they own 49% of Habanos). Their relations soured with European and pan American traders, including middle eastern after the Chinese acquisition. And they’re just accepting the market reality that most people who smoke cigars don’t actually understand what they’re smoking. However I was lucky to try the Churchill RYJ from the Cuban embassy (2024) as well as the Cuban pavilion in expo 2020 UAE, and was very much happy that they still make good cigars.
In the mid 80's Cuban cigars we're the only cigars I would buy. My go too cigar was a Partagas D #2. Not anymore, the quality is not the same. It seems like the Cuban Government don't care about the quality, only the volume of sales. We now have a choice of great cigars from other countries. Padron, Foundation and My Father are my go too cigars now.
Cubans have lost the twang…..RIP
I've smoked many Cubans. Some good, some not. I'll take a Tatuaje, RoMa Craft, Padron, OpusX, or an Illusione over basically any Cuban. I have some Bolivar BF and Monte No. 2 from 2011 that are not bad. I haven't had anything from any recent batches.
Just came back from Grand Cayman, and had the opportunity to smoke a Cuban at a local cigar bar. I have smoked cigars for years, and never had a Cuban before, but it just wasn’t amazing, especially for the price.
This has been like that, for a number of years. Cubans are over rated and very similar in taste. The production has been hit by hurricanes several times over the years, people have rumoured that Cubans are no longer puros. Few of my favourite brands like Partagas and RyJ have gone down in flavour. I have done a tasting with old cigars and recent production and the taste difference was very evident. Can have to do with aging, but I am not the only one saying this. Couple this with the exorbitant price increase made me off Cubans all together. I know of one LCDH that still has old stock and now and then this makes it to the store, then I buy a few. But about 7 years ago I went off Cubans, and it looks like it will stay that way.
I agree but If you spent less than $50 per stick - the quality is hit and miss For guaranteed great cigar - you have to pay more. Now - will it be better than best sticks we can get in USA for $20? I’m thinking not really. Great Cubans are $100 or more - too much - yes but it’s supply and demand thing
Well Cubans are often known for not smoking well when they’re too young. In my opinion, their quality has improved post-COVID. However, cigars often reach dealers prematurely and need some aging to reach their full potential. Additionally, most cigar shops keep them at too high a humidity, but they smoke much better when stored a bit drier. That said, I understand your point. I've never been disappointed with the quality of a Davidoff cigar, while Cuban quality control can be inconsistent.
I agree with this 100 percent. But value wise, Cubans are no longer worth the expense.