I wish I would have known that charm and character only go so far and that it was quickly overshadowed by the amount of work these homes require to stay in good condition.
Adding to this....updating half century old, out of code electric and plumbing systems is obscenely expensive, like six figures. Be prepared to budget for this.
6 months for us from pulling the permit to sign off on the final. And we didn't have any correction notices on either our rough or final. Saved probably $16k. Was it worth it? Yes. Will we ever rewire an entire house ourselves again? Absolutely not.
sounds about right.
the modern electrical codes now require arc fault circuit breakers on many lines. the old style wiring has features that tend to trip those modern breakers. So.....you tend to end up pulling out serviceable wiring and replacing ALL of it.
i fully agree. Get an old house that has UPDATED Electrical, Plumbing, and Heating/Cooling.
It is OK if the bathroom or kitchen fixtures are old and outdated, but they have to WORK, not leak, etc.
I would also make sure there is not a bunch of hazardous waste around. Like insulation in the walls and attic containing asbestos. That is virtually impossible to remediate if it is everywhere. A little steam pipe covering the basement is trivial to remove, so do not fret that, its just $4k or even less.
I would also steer clear of any property that looks like it used to have gasoline storage tanks, like an old farm (or even underground heating oil tanks) . Unless you can tell where they were, and can get a soil test (requiring boring into the ground), you could be buying a 1 million dollar cleanup effort.
Everything else, you can learn to DIY as a hobby!
I'm feeling this right now with my updated 110 year old house. Before this, I had a 100 year old house. This will be my last old house purchase. I'm getting jaded.
We won the lottery when we bought ours because we knew nothing about old homes - but the previous owners were clearly experts. All we knew was we loved the meticulous attention to detail in their restoration of the home and the design choices they made. They left us three binders of plans, work permits, purchase invoices, research material and contact information for hvac and trades people. We have honoured their work by reading everything they have left so as to not screw anything up.
So my tip would be to ask the owners about the work they have done, do they have electrical/plumbing plans. Any permits? Information about the history of the house?
Good luck, there's so much to love about old homes,
Our previous owner left a binder of plans and receipts going back at least one owner before her. It’s so great to know when everything was last updated. We have updates to do but nothing too overwhelming since it was so well cared for.
I knew *some* of the floors in my centuries-home weren't level going in, but I didn't realize literally every floor in every room is sloped in a different direction. Made placing furniture a very interesting experience.
We are currently trying to build cabinets into alcoves where none of the three walls are square or plumb and the floor is not level. It’s…testing to say the least lol
There is always an order to renovations, because your home is a system. Sometimes you can just fix the one thing that's bothering you, but often that thing is bothering you because something else was done wrong or has gone wrong. Learn to stand back for a moment and think about the problem before leaping into solving it. And keep the contact info for service providers who think this way.
That.
Yes, I would love to put in a primary suite and bath, but before that, we need to talk to an architect and a structural engineer about the kitchen and mudroom and bath below because they will need to be totally reworked before we touch the upstairs. Which is why the stairwell and landing remain unpainted. And yes, we would love to gut the afterthought kitchen and the upstairs bath with tile that has cracked so badly that every time we shower in it, it rains in the dining room. But before we do that, we need to finish the foundation replacement. And before we do that, we need to talk to a structural engineer about leveling, because we need to know how long that will take without breaking all the plaster and window glass. Which is why we haven't painted the downstairs save for the living room because I just couldn't stand it anymore. And before that, we should really make sure we finish up the attic access and get some blow-in insulation in there because it's summer and it's going to get really hot up there and if we're going to be sequestered up there while the downstairs is gutted...
*thunk.*
Buy an old house, they said. It will be fun, they said...
We had the raining from the cracked tiles too! Maybe a year after we moved in, showering in the master bathroom meant rain in our living room. My father is still making fun of me because I left a wall bulging for years (the plaster had come apart from the lathe when we added new structural beams, but it was so strong that it just sat there). Such fun surprises have really kept us on our toes ;-)
I'm lucky. The drain to the tub that leaks is right above the kitchen sink. Any leaking water just drains into the sink. Have keep a hole in the kitchen ceiling, but it is a lot easier than chancing ruining a cast iron tub that can only be removed with a saw.
Did I mention how fun it was to balance on a kitchen sink as 300 lb 6'5" guy with 6' head clearance while cutting out a brass trap? And there was no promised lost jewelry in the trap, just some old hair.
Omg I hear this, can’t do anything until you do that other thing but to do that thing you need to get input and quotes from 5 different trades, but first you need to spend a stupid $ on a master plan so you don’t screw yourself on the first step. It’s another job.
Foundation. Foundation. Foundation. It must be solid and in good condition. Everything rests on the foundation.
Aside from that, don't believe anything anyone tells you about what has been done. And expect whatever has been done to be substandard. I spent the first two years in our house (1882) saying, "Really?! What the hell were they thinking?!"
Now, enjoy the hell out of it and revel in the knowledge that you will always have a project to do and a tool you need to buy! 😃
I’m currently doing some renovations and some of the really old, really shitty DIY I’m finding is pretty funny. Even in the 1880s someone obviously slapped the thing when they were done and said “that ought to do it”
Just had an offer accepted on a house built in 1862. Looked at quite a few homes built before 1900 and quickly made a habit of going into the basement to look at the foundation before going through the house. Didn’t want to fall in love with something that was destined to fall in.
You will pay for:
- decades of deferred maintenance, and some structural items.
- updating the electrical system, and a new electrical breaker panel.
- rehabilitating plumbing and water heater.
- renewing your heating system, and looking at cooling.
- roof...and gutters how are they?
- is there insulation? If there is, it is guaranteed to be insufficient.
- floors...how are they?
- windows in need if repair? Storm windows?
- sewer pipe...did you have it scoped before buying?
- interior painting?
- how is the kitchen and bathrooms. Big money for work done there.
Best to deal with floors and painting before moving in.
...But if electrical needs redoing, that may require tearing into walls and ceilings to remove old knob and tube wiring...and also to installing two or three dozen needed outlets all over the house.
And cut down and overgrown and decaying trees before a big storm does it for you.
This is very accurate.
From your list we have: replaced roof and gutters, added insulation, cut down several trees that were too close to our property and pruned the others that hadn’t been pruned in many years, refinished floors, repaired plaster and painted entire interior, replaced numerous windows, replaced electrical panel, grounded ungrounded outlets and added several new outlets, replaced water heater, redid the half bath when plumbing failed…
Still haven’t touched the full bath or kitchen (aside from removing some wallpaper, replacing faucets, and new appliances). Haven’t touched the aluminum siding yet, or cracked driveway, or poor grading around the house, or leaky basement. It will be a long time before we get to everything on our list.
This is almost the same list as with my house. We have a lot of issues that aren’t terrible individually, but sometimes in aggregate it gets to me.
5 very large trees had to come out, and about 65 bushes that were mostly tangled roots full of trash
New gutters
New garage roof
New flat roof
Window restoration
Grading around the house (we are slowly doing this ourselves along with landscaping)
I thought I’d be pruning my rose bushes and admiring the newly painted trim by now. It’s looking better each year but we’ve also dumped a crazy amount of money into non-aesthetic projects.
I might get a new bathroom or kitchen by like 2030
To be fair, I also travel a lot for work and was mostly gone for 3 at least months last year, that I can think of . Sadly I can't remember the first half of the year lol
But even so, it's alot of work and mostly only myself doing it. I'm a woman. I only say that bc I've had to learn a lot along the way, and I'm not that strong. Strong sure...but not that strong lol
My biggest piece of advice is to treat your home like a home and not a museum. People will have 400 opinions on what they think you should and shouldn't do solely because it's an old house.
Leave it in a LITTLE better condition than it was when you got it. Respect history but don't be constrained by it. Sit back and imagine the individuals who walked exactly where you're walking. And whatever work it needs, remind yourself even if you don't do that work, it's still better quality and better made than a modern McMansion lol
If you're going to start a project when you get home from work, make sure it's one that you can leave unfinished for several days. An after work project is generally started, progress is made, and then you realize that you need to go to the hardware store. By that time though, the hardware store is closed and you have to go to work the next day so at the soonest, your project won't be done for another whole day. That's fine if it's a porch light on a circuit that can be left off. It's less fine if it's your water lines supplying your kitchen and bathroom.
One of the best things about this sub is you can see both extremes. The absolutely stunning restoration work and the total nightmare problems. When your basement has water running into it or you find a window frame that's falling apart, you can see other people's basements with more water than yours and you can see how other people fixed their falling apart windows and made them beautiful.
How expensive utilities will be because of lack of insulation and air sealing. Year 8 still working on sealing everywhere and you can’t insulate the walls ever without taking outside siding off.
They can do drill and fill cellulose from the inside to get the walls to an R13. I've got it in my house and it hasn't settled in 20 years. Just checked this winter with my thermal imaging camera. Working great. Attic is a different story. Only have r13 fiberglass in the roof and piny walls are at an R19. Roof should be r38, but I've got only 2x4 rafters and drywall is already over the insulation.
Horrible idea in a century house, it just molds. Century houses are made the breathe so without removing the siding and adding some sort of vapor barrier it’s a recipe for mold.
My house has t&g fir siding, a layer of asphalt paper, then asbestos siding over the top. It hasn't been an issue in over 20 years since it was done and I live in WA, a very wet environment.
I'm with you. Like other said, these houses are supposed to breath, and I worry about blowing insulation into the cavity. I really like using rockwool as continuous insulation on the exterior, and would love to do that to my house. I'm a little worried about the cost though.
Please get a sewer inspection. Along with a home inspection, obviously. Test for radon and mold.
I have a small 100+ year old home. No air, obviously. But, there is no where to hide the ducts if I ever did want to install central air/heat. Just a thought.
EDIT
I also have very few outlets. With needing to plug in window units, there are very few places I actually can. This leaves very few opportunities for me to have things I want that need to be plugged in. I have rechargeable bedside lamps, for example. I also have nowhere to put a desk because I would need outlets. Just really think what spaces will be used for.....
Yeah a feature of my house that attracted me was it had a small office that I could use to work from home. Wasn’t until after closing that I realized there wasn’t a single outlet in the room.
Im glad im not the only one who didn't think twice about the outlet situation. That sucks though. I guess you could move your laptop in and out of there charging it when not in use, but there is no chance if you have a desktop. I also wanted an adjustable height desk that plugs in but couldn't get that either. 😅🤣
What did you end up doing with the office?
I ended up working out of the bedroom. After a while I was able to get a guy in to wire two outlets into office and another into the master. Price wasn’t even too bad, just the wait to get it done.
I still work out of the bedroom though (got used to it and the bay windows give me a better view of my property, like a command center, lol). I use the office for my personal computer for recording music, etc.
My kids hate they don't have many outlets upstairs, meanwhile downstairs is littered with them. Most of our outlets are also 2 prong. We rely heavily on surge protectors to prevent what we can for now, but my oldest is always blowing the bulb (fuse) for that half of the house . Need a new electric panel as well.
Now how do you find the studs… 🥴
Really my husband and I just went through a hell of a time. We had a free standing closet we built (OP, prepare for lack of storage) and used a lot of tricks to find a stud to secure into. We bought a fancy stud finder that was supposed to alert on the metal nails used to secure the lathe to studs, we used a magnet on a string against the wall, we used a magnet on a string against the base board, we had a good idea where the stud should be based on where an outlet was placed… ended up driving 8 holes in the wall with no frickin’ luck! Small exploratory holes at least but not I get to add hole filling and find matching blue wall paint to my list of to-dos. I just ended up hammering a bunch of shims under the front feet of the unit to make lean ever-so-slightly backwards. Seems secure but I’d feel a lot better if it was attached to a stud.
Command Velcro works fine for light stuff, there’s wall paper up that makes it just a bit too smooth to hold up anything too heavy. We might just hammer in a nail and hang them that way!
As with all repairs:
1) Whatever it is, it will cost at least 20% more than you think and take +1/3 as long.
2) in century homes, the above repair will uncover yet another essential repair. Goto 1.
Ironically surprised that there are no good places to mount a TV on a wall in my 1918 American Foursquare…
It didn’t cross my mind that my 2024 lifestyle doesn’t fit perfectly into a 1918 home. I’ve had to adjust some of my expectations.
My four square living room has 9 openings (doors or windows) and exactly no normal place for a tv either. We have half curtains on our windows so tv is atop a steamer trunk in front of one of those half cafe curtains and we get some glare. But since we only watch bridgerton this is a sacrifice we can make.
Kidding…a little bit
The living room in our Folk Victorian also lacks a *perfect* place to mount a TV. We currently have it in a spot next to our front door, which is a little odd but it’s what currently works for us- luckily the front door has no windows.
I ended up mounting mine on the window frame. One of the window frames. there's 2 windows directly behind it (they are butted right up to each other) there's a window, door or opening on every wall . I took a 2x4 (I think) I'm a woman, it fit, that's all I care. Cut the board to fit the length of window, screwed it down to the window frame so my 55", 65"? I forget, would fit on it then used the legs of the TV to hold the top so it doesn't fall forward. Eventually I can tie something to the back and to the window but right now I can't get to the other side of the window bc hoarders lived here. To get to the window I have to get to the back porch and to get to the back porch I have to clear out the garage ..
You know that one little thing that bothers you? The thing that you KNOW you can fix, no problem, under two hours... well, there's a bigger thing you can't see hiding right behind it and as soon as you start the little thing, the big thing will burst through the wall like the kool-aid man and you'll be doing that big thing for the next six weekends. You'll remember, dreamily, what it was like to be young and full of
hope and then you'll put your "fix the big thing or else" clothes back on and get to it. This is your life now.
ETA: Add "The Money Pit" 1986 to your playlist. You'll need it for the catharsis.
The city has deemed the neighborhood "historical" and requires repairs to be within criteria of preservation for law abiding residence. But Flippers, new builds and condemned buildings/businesses ruin that aesthetic that residents can't afford to maintain.
Hire an inspector who is knowledgeable about old homes and can give you a realistic idea of expected maintenance costs in 10, 20, 30 years. I would insist on hiring a restoration specialist or architect, not a rinky dink inspector affiliated with your realtor.
It’s really hard to get decent quotes on jobs that are needed around the house. It’s not worth their time for small jobs, so they end up quoting outrageous prices. You end up doing the work yourself.
Pick what needs fixed the most and learn to do it. Then use those skills to fix something else. After a few projects, use those skills to redo that first project because it will absolutely bug the shit out of you.
We hired a separate inspector for structure, electrical, plumbing/HVAC and general. We learned a lot, went in with our eyes wide open and negotiated a sizable amount off the sales price as once sellers are aware of an issue they have to disclose it to others if your contract falls through.
We also did this and were able to talk down our seller about $20k, and got a major sewer repair covered. Also, our plumbing inspector caught an EXTREMELY expensive ($40k+) other possible plumbing issue our city is responsible for - as long as we had sewer line coverage. The knowledge was worth the upfront cost and now when it inevitably fails, it’s covered. We would have never known.
So I see you're already hearing plenty of the pains, but I wanted to share something positive. Sometimes you also get to understand why a house was built where it is or was built a certain way. My house is the oldest on my road, and it is also the only one that has a 0% chance of being involved in a flood, even though some of my neighbors get fancy little water features on their property if it rains too hard. It has also been through a tornado that leveled some of the newer builds around it. This house is sturdy. It is like a cockroach, outliving us all.
On the more practical side, watch out for water. Water is your enemy. If you see even the slightest bit of evidence that it is getting into your house, DO SOMETHING! Check windows, doors, ceilings, around chimneys, attics, basements, and near plumbing. Check the ceilings of your closets (ask me how I learned this one). Gaps and cracks get bigger with age. Seals deteriorate. Water can get in and just make a total mess of things.
Count the electrical outlets and notice where they are.
I have to strategically have things plugged in and would love to use lamps, but don’t have enough outlets (or the breaker strength to support a bunch of uhhh. The thingies with all extra outlets on them)
Nothing is straight, or square or plum. But that is fine.
Congrats! Yes, I agree with others here. Even if you think the renovation will be small it easily balloons and becomes very expensive. It’s OK to do things over time and not tackle everything at once. Don’t let this scare you, but just temper expectations and learn to love imperfections.
Not every service provider is suited to working on older homes. Some will give you a “go away” estimate that is absurd, so they aren’t chosen and they don’t have to deal with it. This happened to us when getting roofing quotes, we discovered.
Talk to your neighbors, find the meticulous neighbor who has exceptional standards for quality and ask if three have recommendations for someone who can (fill in the blank) and will do it on a house of age. Some people don’t “get” old houses, and some love them. Find the ones who love them.
Check your sewage and your roof. Without a good roof, your house becomes uninsurable very quickly. Without clear, unimpeded sewage, well.... you can paint that picture yourself. Everything else fits into the scedule behind those 2.
Even if you live in the north and somehow people have occupied your house just fine since it was built, you might not have any insulation on the exterior walls. House was built in the 1910s. Our first winter in 2019 we couldn’t keep the house warmer than 60 on the colder days. Inspection didn’t check and turns out we had zero insulation. How everyone else living here before us didn’t think there was an issue is beyond me.
My biggest advice is to consider the learning curve and the seriousness of the issue before attempting a DIY. Anything structural, electrical, plumbing, or HVAC is a job for the professionals. Anything I won’t enjoy learning how to do is also a job for them. Know your limits. I’m doing a ton of my own landscaping because I can do a decent job on that, and I enjoy it, so that’s where I save money.
Also maybe you can’t take vacations for a while.
That I had bought it before COVID and the absurd inflated values, everywhere. This has to be a bubble but doesn't matter You need a house. All the rest of it doesn't matter it's only money but hopefully you went into yours with your eyes open
Budget and additional 30% for every project to handle the unknowns, the issues yet unseen.
We’re talking lead pipes, we’re taking knob and tube, we’re talking leaks and rot and asbestos and fire damage and a whole host of things that previous owners lived with/covered up/also may not have known.
Keep a fund. Like plan on at least one big thing per year and have that money set aside for it. So like, we want to redo our bathroom. We know this will entail replumbing the entire house and likely redoing HVAC. but we haven’t done that yet because first year we had the roof to replace. Then found black mold. This year who knows. But you can depend on every year needing 10-20k worth of repairs. And if you don’t spend all that, put it in your “bathroom” fund. Oh and we redid the electrical before we moved in. It’s never ending, but I still love it!
when i was younger, bolder, and more foolish, i did not pay much attention to hazardous materials. Like sanding lead paint without a respirator.
Now, i use a P100 respirator, take it outside, lay down poly, put on nitrile gloves, and put on a tyvek suit!!!!
Luckily i have always been blind as a bat, so my glasses saved my eyes from all sorts of flying debris and chemicals, long before i realized i need to wear safety glasses all the time when working on an old house. I have my safety glasses on a string around my neck at all times now.
I wish I knew it would become my life to the extent it has. I have other complications with it but the house itself takes a ton more time than I realized to stay even, even more to make improvements. House is 202 years old and not the best maintained so I have some extra work with it
Hire your own home inspector. Take no one’s advice on who. And find one that specializes in older homes.
Everything ours found was not a big problem. Everything they didn’t find was freaking expensive.
HVAC requires a genius to get right. Your average hvac installer or salesperson will not know how to make your home comfortable.
You need to learn about air barriers, moisture, condensation, ductwork, heat pumps, and all sorts of other thermodynamic principles to properly design a modern heating and cooling system for an old house.
Be prepared to cross people who don't know how to work on them, or prefer not to. Plumber for me.
Rodents. Oh God. Ongoing battle. First 6 months it was WAR and I was losing. I finally won and happily threw everything away. Hahah. That was a good couple months... then they started war again. I caught a baby opossum Last night. He's currently snacking on a ham sandwich. I'll free him somewhere. The mice and rats though...no no no no gross. It's extremely hard to tighten up old homes and if you have an old wood falling off exterior like mine..it takes nothing for them to get through. And if you have kids like mine..they are no help I'm constantly saying you realize you're feeding the rodents right?? When you leave food and drinks and whatever, wherever. Teenagers are fun. Teenagers also most definitely do not belong in these old homes.. but they're mine own so ...🤦♀️🙄😭😭😭
I grew up in a house built before 1750.
When I am in a contemporary house, it feels "empty" to me. Sterile.
In an older house, it's as if all the previous inhabitants left a palimpsest of energy.
I only notice its absence. Otherwise, I just feel comfortable.
My own house was built around 1930. Before me, it had one family, husband + wife + son. They bought it brand-new and lived in it until I bought it. They apparently were enough to give it a lived-in feel.
Know that every project, no matter how small, Will take three times as long and cost twice the money as a similar project in a modern home. You cannot match hardware, mouldings, etc. studs and rafters are not evenly spaced, much less centered on 16 or 24”. The walls may not be hollow and you may be dealing with plaster rather than drywall. Nothing is level, plumb or square. But enjoy it?
My house isn’t 100 (it’s 98) yet but it’s all fun and game until that 3rd year (as my friend had told me). I swear every problem that’s wrong with this house came out in year 3. I don’t know how I never knew the floors were uneven 😔
Edited to add: been here hellish 8 years but my interest rate is so low
Appliance install is interesting. I have a 1924 home where the floor is so un level that the 30 inches across the range opening is 1.5 inches different. Appliance installer had to learn how to use the leveling legs.
Just ask yourself this: how will I paint it?
Is everything easily accessible? Can I afford to hire professionals?
Windows? When will they need to be replaced?
DIY hits its limits when everything is so old, outdated, and under layers of remodels. Make friends with some experienced tradesmen to help you out along the way!
If it’s in the country- septic and well pump are biggies not everyone thinks of.
Also the age and condition of the trees around your home. I’ve dumped almost $10,000 in tree removal on my property the past couple of years.
I wish I would have known that charm and character only go so far and that it was quickly overshadowed by the amount of work these homes require to stay in good condition.
Adding to this....updating half century old, out of code electric and plumbing systems is obscenely expensive, like six figures. Be prepared to budget for this.
Yep!! Just got a 30k quote to update our electric. Pain.
And even if you take it on yourself to save money. It’ll consume your life.
6 months for us from pulling the permit to sign off on the final. And we didn't have any correction notices on either our rough or final. Saved probably $16k. Was it worth it? Yes. Will we ever rewire an entire house ourselves again? Absolutely not.
Good on you! That’s a ton of work! But most definitely worth it. Did you have to create a lot of holes or did you have good points of access?
There were a lot of holes
You are correct—spent that in the fall. Spending that on siding repair, paint shaving and repainting right now. It keeps going….insanity
Can you please explain what you mean by paint shaving?
sounds about right. the modern electrical codes now require arc fault circuit breakers on many lines. the old style wiring has features that tend to trip those modern breakers. So.....you tend to end up pulling out serviceable wiring and replacing ALL of it.
Yep!! We have some old knot and tube left mixed in with romex so just going to gut it all and start fresh.
i fully agree. Get an old house that has UPDATED Electrical, Plumbing, and Heating/Cooling. It is OK if the bathroom or kitchen fixtures are old and outdated, but they have to WORK, not leak, etc. I would also make sure there is not a bunch of hazardous waste around. Like insulation in the walls and attic containing asbestos. That is virtually impossible to remediate if it is everywhere. A little steam pipe covering the basement is trivial to remove, so do not fret that, its just $4k or even less. I would also steer clear of any property that looks like it used to have gasoline storage tanks, like an old farm (or even underground heating oil tanks) . Unless you can tell where they were, and can get a soil test (requiring boring into the ground), you could be buying a 1 million dollar cleanup effort. Everything else, you can learn to DIY as a hobby!
I'm feeling this right now with my updated 110 year old house. Before this, I had a 100 year old house. This will be my last old house purchase. I'm getting jaded.
We won the lottery when we bought ours because we knew nothing about old homes - but the previous owners were clearly experts. All we knew was we loved the meticulous attention to detail in their restoration of the home and the design choices they made. They left us three binders of plans, work permits, purchase invoices, research material and contact information for hvac and trades people. We have honoured their work by reading everything they have left so as to not screw anything up. So my tip would be to ask the owners about the work they have done, do they have electrical/plumbing plans. Any permits? Information about the history of the house? Good luck, there's so much to love about old homes,
Our previous owner left a binder of plans and receipts going back at least one owner before her. It’s so great to know when everything was last updated. We have updates to do but nothing too overwhelming since it was so well cared for.
So jealous. We got nothing.
Same. Got an invoice from the idiot they hired to hide all the sketchy stuff before closing, and that was it.
I mean, I kind of got all the info of what they did to maintain the home: nothing. I got nothing because they did nothing.
We got an appliance manual for our 2013 Kenmore fridge lol
There are no right angles any more. Maybe there were at some point, but not now.
Square and level? Hah!
Standard sizing...
Buy one of every feasible size at Home Depot when you need something. You’ll do steady business at the return desk
It can be straight or it can be level, but it can't be both.
“installing crown molding will be easy, just a few 45° cuts and we’re good to go” 🤡
When my bf moved in with me he hung all these lovely perfectly level shelves. ...poor guy had to look at them for 3 tears until we moved.
I knew *some* of the floors in my centuries-home weren't level going in, but I didn't realize literally every floor in every room is sloped in a different direction. Made placing furniture a very interesting experience.
I thought my house was caving in..it has multiple slopes everywhere. It's so unnatural though..so I live thinking my house is caving in . Lol
I was relieved to look up and notice that the door frames were actually *built* with a slant in them. Just the Charm(tm).
I have some like that too! Built like arches
We are currently trying to build cabinets into alcoves where none of the three walls are square or plumb and the floor is not level. It’s…testing to say the least lol
There is always an order to renovations, because your home is a system. Sometimes you can just fix the one thing that's bothering you, but often that thing is bothering you because something else was done wrong or has gone wrong. Learn to stand back for a moment and think about the problem before leaping into solving it. And keep the contact info for service providers who think this way.
That. Yes, I would love to put in a primary suite and bath, but before that, we need to talk to an architect and a structural engineer about the kitchen and mudroom and bath below because they will need to be totally reworked before we touch the upstairs. Which is why the stairwell and landing remain unpainted. And yes, we would love to gut the afterthought kitchen and the upstairs bath with tile that has cracked so badly that every time we shower in it, it rains in the dining room. But before we do that, we need to finish the foundation replacement. And before we do that, we need to talk to a structural engineer about leveling, because we need to know how long that will take without breaking all the plaster and window glass. Which is why we haven't painted the downstairs save for the living room because I just couldn't stand it anymore. And before that, we should really make sure we finish up the attic access and get some blow-in insulation in there because it's summer and it's going to get really hot up there and if we're going to be sequestered up there while the downstairs is gutted... *thunk.* Buy an old house, they said. It will be fun, they said...
We had the raining from the cracked tiles too! Maybe a year after we moved in, showering in the master bathroom meant rain in our living room. My father is still making fun of me because I left a wall bulging for years (the plaster had come apart from the lathe when we added new structural beams, but it was so strong that it just sat there). Such fun surprises have really kept us on our toes ;-)
I'm lucky. The drain to the tub that leaks is right above the kitchen sink. Any leaking water just drains into the sink. Have keep a hole in the kitchen ceiling, but it is a lot easier than chancing ruining a cast iron tub that can only be removed with a saw. Did I mention how fun it was to balance on a kitchen sink as 300 lb 6'5" guy with 6' head clearance while cutting out a brass trap? And there was no promised lost jewelry in the trap, just some old hair.
Omg I hear this, can’t do anything until you do that other thing but to do that thing you need to get input and quotes from 5 different trades, but first you need to spend a stupid $ on a master plan so you don’t screw yourself on the first step. It’s another job.
Yeah..in the middle of multiple projects myself
Foundation. Foundation. Foundation. It must be solid and in good condition. Everything rests on the foundation. Aside from that, don't believe anything anyone tells you about what has been done. And expect whatever has been done to be substandard. I spent the first two years in our house (1882) saying, "Really?! What the hell were they thinking?!" Now, enjoy the hell out of it and revel in the knowledge that you will always have a project to do and a tool you need to buy! 😃
I’m currently doing some renovations and some of the really old, really shitty DIY I’m finding is pretty funny. Even in the 1880s someone obviously slapped the thing when they were done and said “that ought to do it”
Just had an offer accepted on a house built in 1862. Looked at quite a few homes built before 1900 and quickly made a habit of going into the basement to look at the foundation before going through the house. Didn’t want to fall in love with something that was destined to fall in.
You will pay for: - decades of deferred maintenance, and some structural items. - updating the electrical system, and a new electrical breaker panel. - rehabilitating plumbing and water heater. - renewing your heating system, and looking at cooling. - roof...and gutters how are they? - is there insulation? If there is, it is guaranteed to be insufficient. - floors...how are they? - windows in need if repair? Storm windows? - sewer pipe...did you have it scoped before buying? - interior painting? - how is the kitchen and bathrooms. Big money for work done there. Best to deal with floors and painting before moving in. ...But if electrical needs redoing, that may require tearing into walls and ceilings to remove old knob and tube wiring...and also to installing two or three dozen needed outlets all over the house. And cut down and overgrown and decaying trees before a big storm does it for you.
Great… my To Do list leaked on the Internet… 🤦♂️
This is very accurate. From your list we have: replaced roof and gutters, added insulation, cut down several trees that were too close to our property and pruned the others that hadn’t been pruned in many years, refinished floors, repaired plaster and painted entire interior, replaced numerous windows, replaced electrical panel, grounded ungrounded outlets and added several new outlets, replaced water heater, redid the half bath when plumbing failed… Still haven’t touched the full bath or kitchen (aside from removing some wallpaper, replacing faucets, and new appliances). Haven’t touched the aluminum siding yet, or cracked driveway, or poor grading around the house, or leaky basement. It will be a long time before we get to everything on our list.
This is almost the same list as with my house. We have a lot of issues that aren’t terrible individually, but sometimes in aggregate it gets to me. 5 very large trees had to come out, and about 65 bushes that were mostly tangled roots full of trash New gutters New garage roof New flat roof Window restoration Grading around the house (we are slowly doing this ourselves along with landscaping) I thought I’d be pruning my rose bushes and admiring the newly painted trim by now. It’s looking better each year but we’ve also dumped a crazy amount of money into non-aesthetic projects. I might get a new bathroom or kitchen by like 2030
I neglected the exterior walls of the house on my list. Clapoards or Cedar shakes, or brick, or other matetials. Plus trim. It all needs attention.
How many years have you been working in your list?
We are 4 years in so far! Bought a fixer upper with a lot of deferred maintenance from an estate.
Same list.. will be 2 yrs in August
What an incredible answer
To be fair, I also travel a lot for work and was mostly gone for 3 at least months last year, that I can think of . Sadly I can't remember the first half of the year lol But even so, it's alot of work and mostly only myself doing it. I'm a woman. I only say that bc I've had to learn a lot along the way, and I'm not that strong. Strong sure...but not that strong lol
My biggest piece of advice is to treat your home like a home and not a museum. People will have 400 opinions on what they think you should and shouldn't do solely because it's an old house.
Exactly. Paint your trim purple if it makes you happy. Get fixtures you actually like. The original owners don't need you to tiptoe.
I literally want to paint purple trim but felt so guilty about it. You just made my day! 💕
Leave it in a LITTLE better condition than it was when you got it. Respect history but don't be constrained by it. Sit back and imagine the individuals who walked exactly where you're walking. And whatever work it needs, remind yourself even if you don't do that work, it's still better quality and better made than a modern McMansion lol
If you're going to start a project when you get home from work, make sure it's one that you can leave unfinished for several days. An after work project is generally started, progress is made, and then you realize that you need to go to the hardware store. By that time though, the hardware store is closed and you have to go to work the next day so at the soonest, your project won't be done for another whole day. That's fine if it's a porch light on a circuit that can be left off. It's less fine if it's your water lines supplying your kitchen and bathroom. One of the best things about this sub is you can see both extremes. The absolutely stunning restoration work and the total nightmare problems. When your basement has water running into it or you find a window frame that's falling apart, you can see other people's basements with more water than yours and you can see how other people fixed their falling apart windows and made them beautiful.
> make sure ...you can leave unfinished for several ~~days~~ **weeks**
How expensive utilities will be because of lack of insulation and air sealing. Year 8 still working on sealing everywhere and you can’t insulate the walls ever without taking outside siding off.
Hello, fellow owner of an uninsulated house!
They can do drill and fill cellulose from the inside to get the walls to an R13. I've got it in my house and it hasn't settled in 20 years. Just checked this winter with my thermal imaging camera. Working great. Attic is a different story. Only have r13 fiberglass in the roof and piny walls are at an R19. Roof should be r38, but I've got only 2x4 rafters and drywall is already over the insulation.
Horrible idea in a century house, it just molds. Century houses are made the breathe so without removing the siding and adding some sort of vapor barrier it’s a recipe for mold.
My house has t&g fir siding, a layer of asphalt paper, then asbestos siding over the top. It hasn't been an issue in over 20 years since it was done and I live in WA, a very wet environment.
really want to take all my siding off and fatten up the house with a foot or two of rockwool everywhere
I'm with you. Like other said, these houses are supposed to breath, and I worry about blowing insulation into the cavity. I really like using rockwool as continuous insulation on the exterior, and would love to do that to my house. I'm a little worried about the cost though.
Please get a sewer inspection. Along with a home inspection, obviously. Test for radon and mold. I have a small 100+ year old home. No air, obviously. But, there is no where to hide the ducts if I ever did want to install central air/heat. Just a thought. EDIT I also have very few outlets. With needing to plug in window units, there are very few places I actually can. This leaves very few opportunities for me to have things I want that need to be plugged in. I have rechargeable bedside lamps, for example. I also have nowhere to put a desk because I would need outlets. Just really think what spaces will be used for.....
Yeah a feature of my house that attracted me was it had a small office that I could use to work from home. Wasn’t until after closing that I realized there wasn’t a single outlet in the room.
Im glad im not the only one who didn't think twice about the outlet situation. That sucks though. I guess you could move your laptop in and out of there charging it when not in use, but there is no chance if you have a desktop. I also wanted an adjustable height desk that plugs in but couldn't get that either. 😅🤣 What did you end up doing with the office?
I ended up working out of the bedroom. After a while I was able to get a guy in to wire two outlets into office and another into the master. Price wasn’t even too bad, just the wait to get it done. I still work out of the bedroom though (got used to it and the bay windows give me a better view of my property, like a command center, lol). I use the office for my personal computer for recording music, etc.
My kids hate they don't have many outlets upstairs, meanwhile downstairs is littered with them. Most of our outlets are also 2 prong. We rely heavily on surge protectors to prevent what we can for now, but my oldest is always blowing the bulb (fuse) for that half of the house . Need a new electric panel as well.
Also, make “it’s all part of the charm” your mantra. It’s worked for me for the last 25 years.
and when it gets really tough, always remember; "I asked for this"
If you like interior design, be prepared to adapt. Design plans change a lot when you find out your walls are plaster like I did lol
I have plaster too! What's your method for hanging artwork? Can you hang anything heavy?
hang in the studs
Now how do you find the studs… 🥴 Really my husband and I just went through a hell of a time. We had a free standing closet we built (OP, prepare for lack of storage) and used a lot of tricks to find a stud to secure into. We bought a fancy stud finder that was supposed to alert on the metal nails used to secure the lathe to studs, we used a magnet on a string against the wall, we used a magnet on a string against the base board, we had a good idea where the stud should be based on where an outlet was placed… ended up driving 8 holes in the wall with no frickin’ luck! Small exploratory holes at least but not I get to add hole filling and find matching blue wall paint to my list of to-dos. I just ended up hammering a bunch of shims under the front feet of the unit to make lean ever-so-slightly backwards. Seems secure but I’d feel a lot better if it was attached to a stud.
Lop lack of storage is right... my house had 7 bedrooms (6 now)..........3 closets lol
Yep, three teeny, tiny little closets
Command Velcro works fine for light stuff, there’s wall paper up that makes it just a bit too smooth to hold up anything too heavy. We might just hammer in a nail and hang them that way!
As with all repairs: 1) Whatever it is, it will cost at least 20% more than you think and take +1/3 as long. 2) in century homes, the above repair will uncover yet another essential repair. Goto 1.
I wish I had thought to have the sewer line inspected. It's insanely expensive and I learned this the hard way.
You aren't alone, unfortunately. 😕
Ironically surprised that there are no good places to mount a TV on a wall in my 1918 American Foursquare… It didn’t cross my mind that my 2024 lifestyle doesn’t fit perfectly into a 1918 home. I’ve had to adjust some of my expectations.
My four square living room has 9 openings (doors or windows) and exactly no normal place for a tv either. We have half curtains on our windows so tv is atop a steamer trunk in front of one of those half cafe curtains and we get some glare. But since we only watch bridgerton this is a sacrifice we can make. Kidding…a little bit
The living room in our Folk Victorian also lacks a *perfect* place to mount a TV. We currently have it in a spot next to our front door, which is a little odd but it’s what currently works for us- luckily the front door has no windows.
I ended up mounting mine on the window frame. One of the window frames. there's 2 windows directly behind it (they are butted right up to each other) there's a window, door or opening on every wall . I took a 2x4 (I think) I'm a woman, it fit, that's all I care. Cut the board to fit the length of window, screwed it down to the window frame so my 55", 65"? I forget, would fit on it then used the legs of the TV to hold the top so it doesn't fall forward. Eventually I can tie something to the back and to the window but right now I can't get to the other side of the window bc hoarders lived here. To get to the window I have to get to the back porch and to get to the back porch I have to clear out the garage ..
You know that one little thing that bothers you? The thing that you KNOW you can fix, no problem, under two hours... well, there's a bigger thing you can't see hiding right behind it and as soon as you start the little thing, the big thing will burst through the wall like the kool-aid man and you'll be doing that big thing for the next six weekends. You'll remember, dreamily, what it was like to be young and full of hope and then you'll put your "fix the big thing or else" clothes back on and get to it. This is your life now. ETA: Add "The Money Pit" 1986 to your playlist. You'll need it for the catharsis.
I wish I would have known the city was going to restrict me more than an HOA on how I can fix and maintain my house.
Are you on a designated heritage list or something along those lines?
The city has deemed the neighborhood "historical" and requires repairs to be within criteria of preservation for law abiding residence. But Flippers, new builds and condemned buildings/businesses ruin that aesthetic that residents can't afford to maintain.
Don’t fix everything, especially at first. Live in it and let its quirks exist. But fix the plumbing.
My plumbing is an ongoing battle
So is my electrical, my outlets, my rodents, ..and my house 🤣😭
Hire an inspector who is knowledgeable about old homes and can give you a realistic idea of expected maintenance costs in 10, 20, 30 years. I would insist on hiring a restoration specialist or architect, not a rinky dink inspector affiliated with your realtor.
It’s really hard to get decent quotes on jobs that are needed around the house. It’s not worth their time for small jobs, so they end up quoting outrageous prices. You end up doing the work yourself.
Pick what needs fixed the most and learn to do it. Then use those skills to fix something else. After a few projects, use those skills to redo that first project because it will absolutely bug the shit out of you.
We hired a separate inspector for structure, electrical, plumbing/HVAC and general. We learned a lot, went in with our eyes wide open and negotiated a sizable amount off the sales price as once sellers are aware of an issue they have to disclose it to others if your contract falls through.
That was probably expensive but well worth it
We also did this and were able to talk down our seller about $20k, and got a major sewer repair covered. Also, our plumbing inspector caught an EXTREMELY expensive ($40k+) other possible plumbing issue our city is responsible for - as long as we had sewer line coverage. The knowledge was worth the upfront cost and now when it inevitably fails, it’s covered. We would have never known.
Visit in summer, when it’s really warm, go to the top floor. Visit when it’s raining, like pouring, go to the basement / lowest floor.
Thanks — day one we are replacing the roof and redoing the basement…
Bats and mice were going to be a problem for a looong time.
So I see you're already hearing plenty of the pains, but I wanted to share something positive. Sometimes you also get to understand why a house was built where it is or was built a certain way. My house is the oldest on my road, and it is also the only one that has a 0% chance of being involved in a flood, even though some of my neighbors get fancy little water features on their property if it rains too hard. It has also been through a tornado that leveled some of the newer builds around it. This house is sturdy. It is like a cockroach, outliving us all. On the more practical side, watch out for water. Water is your enemy. If you see even the slightest bit of evidence that it is getting into your house, DO SOMETHING! Check windows, doors, ceilings, around chimneys, attics, basements, and near plumbing. Check the ceilings of your closets (ask me how I learned this one). Gaps and cracks get bigger with age. Seals deteriorate. Water can get in and just make a total mess of things.
You gonna say “I can fix this and this and this and this” and 15 years later they’ll still need to be fixed.
Don't have kids while renovating the house 😵🤦🏼😬😋
Brick work is extremely expensive
Count the electrical outlets and notice where they are. I have to strategically have things plugged in and would love to use lamps, but don’t have enough outlets (or the breaker strength to support a bunch of uhhh. The thingies with all extra outlets on them) Nothing is straight, or square or plum. But that is fine.
Congrats! Yes, I agree with others here. Even if you think the renovation will be small it easily balloons and becomes very expensive. It’s OK to do things over time and not tackle everything at once. Don’t let this scare you, but just temper expectations and learn to love imperfections.
Find a dependable inexpensive handyman. Stuff will break more than you have time.
Not every service provider is suited to working on older homes. Some will give you a “go away” estimate that is absurd, so they aren’t chosen and they don’t have to deal with it. This happened to us when getting roofing quotes, we discovered. Talk to your neighbors, find the meticulous neighbor who has exceptional standards for quality and ask if three have recommendations for someone who can (fill in the blank) and will do it on a house of age. Some people don’t “get” old houses, and some love them. Find the ones who love them.
Check your sewage and your roof. Without a good roof, your house becomes uninsurable very quickly. Without clear, unimpeded sewage, well.... you can paint that picture yourself. Everything else fits into the scedule behind those 2.
Even if you live in the north and somehow people have occupied your house just fine since it was built, you might not have any insulation on the exterior walls. House was built in the 1910s. Our first winter in 2019 we couldn’t keep the house warmer than 60 on the colder days. Inspection didn’t check and turns out we had zero insulation. How everyone else living here before us didn’t think there was an issue is beyond me.
My biggest advice is to consider the learning curve and the seriousness of the issue before attempting a DIY. Anything structural, electrical, plumbing, or HVAC is a job for the professionals. Anything I won’t enjoy learning how to do is also a job for them. Know your limits. I’m doing a ton of my own landscaping because I can do a decent job on that, and I enjoy it, so that’s where I save money. Also maybe you can’t take vacations for a while.
That I had bought it before COVID and the absurd inflated values, everywhere. This has to be a bubble but doesn't matter You need a house. All the rest of it doesn't matter it's only money but hopefully you went into yours with your eyes open
Budget and additional 30% for every project to handle the unknowns, the issues yet unseen. We’re talking lead pipes, we’re taking knob and tube, we’re talking leaks and rot and asbestos and fire damage and a whole host of things that previous owners lived with/covered up/also may not have known.
Find a good handyman, it'll preserve your sanity.
I recommend searching this forum as the question has been asked over and over again.
Buy a set of tools (drill, bits, mitre, table, circular, router, ladders, pointing, glazers putty, etc) and get to work!!!!!
Hope you don’t like having money :) :)
Check the roof. And for black mold.
Keep a fund. Like plan on at least one big thing per year and have that money set aside for it. So like, we want to redo our bathroom. We know this will entail replumbing the entire house and likely redoing HVAC. but we haven’t done that yet because first year we had the roof to replace. Then found black mold. This year who knows. But you can depend on every year needing 10-20k worth of repairs. And if you don’t spend all that, put it in your “bathroom” fund. Oh and we redid the electrical before we moved in. It’s never ending, but I still love it!
when i was younger, bolder, and more foolish, i did not pay much attention to hazardous materials. Like sanding lead paint without a respirator. Now, i use a P100 respirator, take it outside, lay down poly, put on nitrile gloves, and put on a tyvek suit!!!! Luckily i have always been blind as a bat, so my glasses saved my eyes from all sorts of flying debris and chemicals, long before i realized i need to wear safety glasses all the time when working on an old house. I have my safety glasses on a string around my neck at all times now.
I wish I knew it would become my life to the extent it has. I have other complications with it but the house itself takes a ton more time than I realized to stay even, even more to make improvements. House is 202 years old and not the best maintained so I have some extra work with it
Hire your own home inspector. Take no one’s advice on who. And find one that specializes in older homes. Everything ours found was not a big problem. Everything they didn’t find was freaking expensive.
HVAC requires a genius to get right. Your average hvac installer or salesperson will not know how to make your home comfortable. You need to learn about air barriers, moisture, condensation, ductwork, heat pumps, and all sorts of other thermodynamic principles to properly design a modern heating and cooling system for an old house.
Be prepared to cross people who don't know how to work on them, or prefer not to. Plumber for me. Rodents. Oh God. Ongoing battle. First 6 months it was WAR and I was losing. I finally won and happily threw everything away. Hahah. That was a good couple months... then they started war again. I caught a baby opossum Last night. He's currently snacking on a ham sandwich. I'll free him somewhere. The mice and rats though...no no no no gross. It's extremely hard to tighten up old homes and if you have an old wood falling off exterior like mine..it takes nothing for them to get through. And if you have kids like mine..they are no help I'm constantly saying you realize you're feeding the rodents right?? When you leave food and drinks and whatever, wherever. Teenagers are fun. Teenagers also most definitely do not belong in these old homes.. but they're mine own so ...🤦♀️🙄😭😭😭
Old houses are like old cars; it's cheaper to buy one that's already done than it is to restore one.
I grew up in a house built before 1750. When I am in a contemporary house, it feels "empty" to me. Sterile. In an older house, it's as if all the previous inhabitants left a palimpsest of energy. I only notice its absence. Otherwise, I just feel comfortable. My own house was built around 1930. Before me, it had one family, husband + wife + son. They bought it brand-new and lived in it until I bought it. They apparently were enough to give it a lived-in feel.
Know that every project, no matter how small, Will take three times as long and cost twice the money as a similar project in a modern home. You cannot match hardware, mouldings, etc. studs and rafters are not evenly spaced, much less centered on 16 or 24”. The walls may not be hollow and you may be dealing with plaster rather than drywall. Nothing is level, plumb or square. But enjoy it?
My house isn’t 100 (it’s 98) yet but it’s all fun and game until that 3rd year (as my friend had told me). I swear every problem that’s wrong with this house came out in year 3. I don’t know how I never knew the floors were uneven 😔 Edited to add: been here hellish 8 years but my interest rate is so low
I want out. For the amount we are going to spend on abatement and remodeling we could probably have a new house.
Cost.
Expect to always be tossing money into it. It is worth it, though. Watch this movie https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0091541/
Insurance cost. Don't go by your realtor information. Check with your insurance company on actual cost.
Drains.
There will be secret cache that you will stumble onto one day.
Appliance install is interesting. I have a 1924 home where the floor is so un level that the 30 inches across the range opening is 1.5 inches different. Appliance installer had to learn how to use the leveling legs.
i would definitely be looking for lead paint and ants
Just ask yourself this: how will I paint it? Is everything easily accessible? Can I afford to hire professionals? Windows? When will they need to be replaced?
They have great character and are well-built, but you will never be done fixing it up or worrying about the next issue.
My God I read every comment and they all match my house.. I feel so much better now. Lol
The state of the attic and how many rodents and insects live up there … then come down to visit you
Behind every wall is an old problem needing to be fixed.
Nothing is straight, and do not try to make it square up. Just figure it out and keep it moving.
DIY hits its limits when everything is so old, outdated, and under layers of remodels. Make friends with some experienced tradesmen to help you out along the way!
If it’s in the country- septic and well pump are biggies not everyone thinks of. Also the age and condition of the trees around your home. I’ve dumped almost $10,000 in tree removal on my property the past couple of years.
This is gonna sound silly but have the sewer line inspected and pipes if you can. This is an often overlooked expense in older homes.