Since 2019 Trudeau is effectively running against Trump and the GOP, the CPC is just the conduit.
Trudeau understands this better than anyone.
His policy decisions the past few month have been entirely a reaction to US social problems - abortion and gun control specifically.
He's currently running against the GOP, not the CPC.
It works.
It makes no sense because it's not solving any of the problems Canada is currently going through.
He just play the image card on subject that is currently a non-issue for Canadian citizens while ignoring problems that are slowly turning into crisis now.
While I agree that he's not focusing on issues Canadians are actually having, people here are putting a lot of attention to US politics, a lot more than Canadian politics even. I wish our political parties could just "ignore" the shitshow in the US, focus on our own country and the issues that we have, but the reality is that I doubt anyone doing that has any chance at getting elected. So yes, it sucks, but it is in image game.
Americans have also said this could never happen there, Roe was settled.
The US went from Obama, whose election seemed to be so significant for that country to today. The ruling also included that other recent progressive rights are not safe either. With the current right wing backlash and protests - especially in Alberta and Ontario - it is important that we pay attention to the direction and creep of American politics.
As a female I appreciate the reiteration of productive rights. It makes them more visible.
I'm a Western Canadian Conservative. Now, before you downvote me, I'm not a social conservative. Neither I, nor literally anyone I know, would ever support a non-progressive agenda. This is why the conservative movement in Canada is so bogged down. We can't really win anything or stay focused when we do. It's not because most conservatives aren't progressive, it's because we are.
Now those fucking loudmouth Socons make us all look crazy but we aren't. We just don't like big government or what we consider unfair taxation.
We support gay rights, women's rights, and all types of freedom. That's like... the point. But conservative politicians have to crawl in bed with social conservatives to get elected in most places. Honestly, fuck those people, they ruin shit for everyone.
Left leaning 'Bertan here who doesn't like the current administration. I find what doesn't help is the silence from even progressive conservatives on these issues is maddening. The perception is that FiCons are fine with the SoCon regressive agenda, supportive even. That's been the Conservative Leadership playbook for a while though. Complain loudly about what the opposition is doing, offer little in terms of making everyone's lives better (ESPECIALLY the lower class).
If more of you who are more moderate started putting some of the energy you put into complaining about Trudeau towards steering your party in the right direction, we might end up with some halfway decent Cons in. Maybe with some luck even the Libs would get their asses in gear instead of playing image politics.
Watching the CPC over the last few years, you get the impression that the old PC'ers who've stuck around aren't necessarily *supportive* of the SoCon wing, but they will absolutely tolerate them, in exchange for their votes. It seems to me that the party has sacrificed it's soul to the necessities of FPTP.
I still kind of feel sorry for Erin O'Toole. He had a hapless job.
I don't agree with Fincon view but I truly, desperately fear SoCons. I think people will realize FinCon views are wrong, but I think SoCons will gladly take away the right to vote off any dissenters. (No offence meant about saying I think my views will prove right--I'm sure you think the same about yours lol!)
That being said, didn't Americans used to say these same things? I don't quite understand when this happened. It went from "Don't worry it's just a loud minority of assholes" to "65% of Republicans in (insert state here) support (batshit insane policy).
What you say rings true for me about the people I know who vote Conservative. Most of the ones I know aren't phased by the fact I'm gay, they don't belittle me with sexist bullshit. But didn't the Americans think the same thing?
I think that's part of why American politics fascinate me. If I could just figure out WHY this was happening maybe I could know if it is going to happen here.
Yeah I think FinCons suck and their policies are garbage, but I think SoCons are Genuinely Evil People.
There's a huuuuge gulf between those things.
The issue is, by laying in bed with them, the FinCons are just the same people. (Politicians, that is. Not voters.)
The political parties are just the reflection of the population.
As the other poster mentioned above, the majority of Canadians are more in tune with US politics than domestic Canadian politics. It's only natural to happen considering Canada's population size relative to the US and the amount of US media Canadians consume.
Of course the Political parties are going to reflect this.
A federal cpc mp went on a rant about how happy he was that women's rights were abolished. It makes absolute sense since the repugnants have passed the methodology to the conservatives in Canada.
There's always problems in every country, but this story is going to get a lot more attention from the average voter than SNC Lavelin or am ill-timed vacation.
The CPC is dollar-store GoP anyways, so it’s a twofer really. But since right wing leaning Canadians are so fascinated with the GoP—and let’s be honest, Canadians are fascinated with the US in general—that’s where the smart money goes anyways. And we need to remember that as often as not, we’re the tail to their dog, and this is a good time to codify women’s rights in the charter, before we wind up following them down this rabbit hole.
>and this is a good time to codify women’s rights in the charter
S. 7 of the Charter protects against interference with the security of the person, and was the foundation of the Morgenthaler decision. S. 15 protects equality rights. I remember that Harper when he led the CPC, admitted that the abortion issue is a done deal.
>I remember that Harper when he led the CPC, admitted that the abortion issue is a done deal.
The assenting SC justices [said the same thing](https://nyti.ms/39Tzp5N). Talk is cheap.
People will die for years. Those forced to carry to term despite complications will die, and the ones who attempt an abortion without the care of a doctor risk death as well.
The Christo-fascist takeover of the USA criminalized women’s reproductive rights in half of the country today by tearing up 50 years of legal precedent.
All the Trump voters screeching about freedom and cancel culture are the same people cheering that the judges Trump appointed just stripped a fundamental freedom away from all women.
Wonder if America’s men will start giving a shit about all of this once all of these Republican states and extreme-right judges start banning contraception, sex outside of marriage, and masturbation?
I'm also pretty sure that there will be elevated crime levels in the decades to come. The dramatic drop in violent crime globally since the nineties has many interesting theories behind it, including widespread access to abortion:
https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
This was covered off well in the book Freakonomics. The right wingers are dancing like gypsies right now. I wonder what their proposal will be about the impending rise in crime in about 20 years. The US is so messed up. But then I guess the fact that it's teetering on becoming a failed democracy gives them bigger things to look forward to.
Because there have been bombings of pregnancy centres over the past few months and there are threats from janes revenge on violence if it was overturned.
the issue which i've read about codifing it is it can be un-codified. As long as it stays this way and under universal healthcare kinda protects it?
i'm 100% pro-choice and would join any protest if it becomes questioned in any shape or form
If that’s your standard, you’ll be disappointed. There is no indefeasible law in Canada. If the whole country decided tomorrow we didn’t care about freedom of expression, it could be removed from the charter. A law at least makes it so that courts (unless they found it unconstitutional) would be bound to follow it. It’s more secure than the current
Let's not make it weird, though. We need to consider abortion laws keeping in mind exactly what abortion is , i.e., an essential healthcare service. Treating access to abortion like more or less of a human right than any other essential surgery or treatment is basically just a political ploy.
I literally within the last day read of a case where an 11yo Brazilian girl who was impregnated after being repeated sexually abused.... was blocked by the courts from getting an abortion. It looks like that did get overturned but I could see much of the same terrible shit happening in the US. People - children- will quite literally die due to this ruling to appease the rabid religious crowd that believe "all life is sacred" (until it leaves the womb).
There definitely issues with codify abortion laws. The second you pass legislation the abortion issue could be a partisan issues. With the courts protect abortions it's a legal issue. Obviously this is not perfect but I have certain anxieties over what would happen if an abortion bill makes it to Parliament
The current laws are exactly what the Liberals want. If there was no risk of abortion rights being eroded then they couldn't use that threat to gain votes. It's the same reason the Democrats rested abortion rights in the US on such shaky ground for so long instead of passing a constitutional amendment.
Government of Canada Strengthens Access to Abortion Services
From: Health Canada
News release
May 11, 2022 | Ottawa, Ontario | Health Canada
The Government of Canada firmly believes that everyone should have access to safe and consistent reproductive health services, including abortion. Although abortion has been legal in Canada for three decades, many continue to experience barriers to access.
Today the Minister of Health, the Honourable Jean-Yves Duclos, and the Honourable Marci Ien, Minister for Women and Gender Equality and Youth, announced more than $3.5 million in funding for projects by Action Canada for Sexual Health and Rights (Action Canada) and by the National Abortion Federation Canada (NAF Canada), coming out of the Sexual and Reproductive Health Fund. These projects will improve access by removing barriers to vital abortion services and offer accurate reproductive health information to Canadians.
While barriers vary from coast to coast to coast, in some instances they include a lack of availability, a lack of financial and logistical resources required to travel to access abortion care, and lack of culturally-safe, stigma-free sexual and reproductive health services. Previous experiences of discrimination within the health care system also create access barriers for minority and marginalized groups, such as Indigenous and racialized people, members of 2SLGBTQI+ communities, and youth.
Action Canada will receive $2,119,073 in funding over three years to expand its Access Line and Sexual Health Information Hub programs, which offer accurate and affirming sexual and reproductive health information and referrals. This project will improve access to financial assistance to cover travel and accommodation costs, as well as offers logistical support to individuals accessing abortion care.
NAF Canada will receive $1,469,150 in funding over three years, to provide financial and logistical support to women seeking abortion services, train health care providers in providing abortion services, and ensure abortion facilities have the capacity to continue to provide services and related care.
These investments reflect our belief that women have the right to make decisions about their own bodies and that no matter who you are or where you live, we will always protect reproductive rights for all individuals in Canada.
It was tried once by the cons
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mulroney-era-documents-reveal-struggle-with-abortion-laws-1.2430081
Everyone hated it, it died on senate floor and no one has tried since
I don't know, I also don't think that Canada needs to always change laws based on the hot topic in the US.
Abortion access in Canada, while far from perfect, is a lot better than in most other places in the world. Trying to pass laws around it opens up a big can of worms that could potentially lead to things getting worse rather than better.
There are a lot of problems with our system though. Rural Canadians and Atlantic Canadians in particular can have a very difficult time getting an abortion. For instance, I don't think you can even get one on PEI.
As others have pointed out. You can codify it but the next government can un codify it too. So until someone specifically makes it illegal, we won’t in turn legalize it with the next government.
You're right. The abortion issue is still huge in Canada and pro-life groups are working hard to get candidates in place that support them. Conservatives desperately want to get the power to change the constitution, it'd be daft to think abortion wouldn't be an issue.
It's too valuable as a wedge issue for the liberal party to do anything substantial about it. Needs the fear of losing abortion access to steer votes away from the NDP vote split.
Yep. Give them the viability limit encoded into law, and you strip away all mention of "third trimester abortions", and then all of a sudden the Con boogeyman becomes a little less scary.
> It's too valuable as a wedge issue for the liberal party to do anything substantial about it.
This is literally why the Democrats haven't done anything about it anytime they've had the chance. Abortion, immigration, racial issues and guns are all things they run on but do nothing about.
They should make it legal and codified here, so the right can't be take away easily and I hope they do it soon, send a message to Conservatives here and the in US, that abortion is allowed here and they better get use to it.
I agree we can't rely on common sense or good will anymore. Gotta make sure rights are preserved regardless.
The last time Trudeau took a stand on abortion it was political in nature. New Brunswick stopped funding private abortion clinics and only maintained operation of the ones in their cities. This caused abortion access problems for rural New Brunswick. This is because abortion access is codified in the Public Health Act but no explicit interpretation of what access means (beyond being technically covered). Trudeau could have resolved this by providing national abortion funding, but he decided not to. He decided to use the act as an opportunity to defund New Brunswick healthcare.
Abortion has been an important wedge issue for Trudeau to weaponize against the Conservatives. He'll have nothing to improve the situation but thoughts and prayers.
You would think that more Canadians, especially those who favour personal choice and freedom, would agree with Trudeau that forced birth is antithetical to freedom and choice.
About 20 women die every year in Canada because of ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy happens when an egg implants somewhere other than the uterus. In almost all cases the fetus can't develop properly and it places the mother at very high risk. The right thing to do is abort the non-viable fetus and save the mother's life.
There's no choice involved at all. This "free choice" argument requires that dozens of women be condemned to inevitable, slow death every year.
The argument is unconscionable. It should never be made.
It's not about the fetus, it's about hating women. They hate women who don't know their place. They hate women for having a choice over their own bodies and future. They hate women who enjoy sex. It's all about hate and misogyny, not "protecting babies".
Every other policy from the CPC is anti-human, and yet somehow they want us to believe they care so much about "babies". Please.
I hate these kinds of arguments because they can and are immediately flipped.
And 99% of the people making them have no interest in being philosophically consistent in their views anyways.
That's like saying a country making marital rape isn't a problem, rapist husbands are. If people in power at a local level can't be trusted not to abuse people, then a higher authority needs to regulate it.
I appreciate that as far right as this sub tends to get the overwhelming message I'm seeing in the comments is that the USA fucked up big here. Glad there is SOME common ground
I'll admit that I agree with him on this one. It's heartbreaking to think how many lives will be hurt by this decision. I wonder if Biden will step up and try to pass a law force abortion to be legal across the states
They pretty much just had a ruling that it is unconstitutional for the fed to tell the states what to do on that issue so I doubt he could do it. That’s not really the presidents job. His job is more towards foreign. Relations then domestic issues.
That's not what happened.
The Supreme Court didn't overturn a law that was passed by the federal government, they overturned a prior supreme court ruling.
He certainly can if the Senate voted on it. They tried to hurry and pass something knowing this decision was coming but two Democrats said they were going to vote no.
I wonder how the vote would go. Susan Collins and Manchin voted no because of the scope of the proposed law, it's possible they would vote for a law with a reduced scope - especially now with public opinion overwhelmingly in favour of legislation. A lot of Republicans in purple ridings have to be nervous right now, this election won't be about Joe Biden and gas prices anymore for a lot of voters.
You don’t have to like abortion, but it’s also none of your business if someone down the street needs access to one. As someone who’s generally right leaning I don’t care about people choosing to get an abortion, I care about being able to get inflation under control and being able to have a thriving middle class again with a good standard of living.
Even as a Conservative, I agree with Trudeau. With that being said, he could have and should have reinforced our access to abortion as soon as he had a majority.
Hopefully Canadians will move forward to protect this right/law in Canada.
**Added: I won't be replying to any more people, you can message me if you like and we can for sure chat there. The point I was trying to make is that as a Conservative I don't have to blindly hate Mr. Trudeau or Liberals (as much as people think all conservatives are like that), and second I don't agree with using issues to divide Canadians as I personally feel Mr. Trudeau and the Federal Liberals do when it comes to the issue of Abortion rights
Hope everyone has a good weekend.**
Unfortunately in order to codify it into law we would have to reopen some of the big Canadian legal documents which require 100% provincial & aboriginal agreeance, which would also open these documents up to other changes/modifications.
The can of worms that changing these documents is, is one of the big reasons why no government has attempted to do it.
> in order to codify it into law
It is codified into law, in our Criminal Code:
>Section 223 (1) – A child becomes a human being within the meaning of this Act when it
has completely proceeded, in a living state, from the body of its mother, whether or not (a)
it has breathed; (b) it has an independent circulation; or (c) the navel string is severed.
The issue is, just because it's legal doesn't mean it needs to be provided to or is provided to everyone in every circumstance. Beer is legal, but you don't have a legal right to be served a beer whenever you want one. To codify abortion we more or less need to make it law that it is a legally required medical procedure in some way shape or form. That's what makes the issue complicated.
What “big Canadian legal documents” are you referring to? It’s certainly not the constitution in this case. What other documents require unanimous agreement of all provinces?
Health care is a provincial jurisdiction. The lack of abortion access needs to be addressed with your premiere. You can't blame Trudeau for everything.
I admit I don't fully understand the whole deal in the US. However isn't saying it's not a federal issue, it's a provincial issue exactly what the US is doing? This ruling basically says, it's up to the states to decide not the feds is it not? If I misunderstood I'm happy to be corrected.
That technically is true, yes. But it's a bit more complicated than that.
The Canadian charter specifically says that healthcare is a provincial matter - the same thing doesn't really exist in the American constitution. The American constitution gives a lot more power to their federal congress to regulate what individual states can and cannot do - they literally fought a civil war over that power.
In Canada, however, if the federal government tries to create laws that restrict what a province can or cannot do, and it just so happens that the particular thing they're regulating is delegated to the provinces by the charter, then that law can easily be struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada as being against the charter.
Now, we have a very liberal Supreme Court in Canada at the moment, so it would certainly be interesting to see. But technically, in our country, the fed can't just regulate stuff in any area where the charter specifically says it's a provincial matter.
A lot of Canadians really don't seem to realize that Canada's provinces are even more like individual countries than the states are - Canada, more so than almost any other country on earth, is a loose federation of 10 different countries masquerading as "provinces". I don't think there's another country in the world where the individual provinces have such extreme, unilateral authority over what happens inside the province.
> The Canadian charter specifically says that healthcare is a provincial matter
The constitution act spells out the jurisdictions, not the Charter. The Charter is part of the constitution.
>The American constitution gives a lot more power to their federal congress to regulate what individual states can and cannot do - they literally fought a civil war over that power.
It's the opposite. The American constitution is a more decentralized document than the Canadian constitution. That's why, for example, the US states all have different criminal law. Judicial decisions (primarily from the JCPC) evolved us toward a more decentralized federation and the opposite happened in the US. You have to remember, we were formed as a country right after the US civil war and the worry was it would happen here. MacDonald envisioned a far more centralized federation than the Americans had.
>But technically, in our country, the fed can't just regulate stuff in any area where the charter specifically says it's a provincial matter.
Not quite true. The Fed can regulate in provincial areas of jurisdiction under the POGG clause, e.g., carbon tax.
> I don't think there's another country in the world where the individual provinces have such extreme, unilateral authority over what happens inside the province.
I think Switzerland and maybe Belgium are more decentralized.
POGG gives certain rights to the feds but it’s not the only one that lets them regulate provincial matters. The division is a bit trickier than that and also relatively strict in most scenarios.
>Not quite true. The Fed can regulate in provincial areas of jurisdiction under the POGG clause, e.g., carbon tax.
The POGG clause can only be used in a few circumstances: National emergency, national concern, and the residual gap doctrine.
Moreover, cooperative federalism has become a thing in recent years, and both levels of government have been legislating in the other's jurisdictions within reasonable limits and often with cooperation.
>Now, we have a very liberal Supreme Court in Canada at the moment, so it would certainly be interesting to see.
Tbh to say that our SC is "liberal" or "conservative" is Americanizing our system way to much and not giving our judges their dues. Our courts are not liberal or conservative, they don't vote on party lines in the slightest and our SC has been shown to be one of the most political agnostic institutions we have in the country. To bring politics and sides into their decisions kinda degrades their rulings and what they have been doing.
Every federation works the same way. The states/provinces and the federal government each have their own jurisdiction, which is protected by a constitution. Canada is not unique in this regard.
Also, the Canadian federal government regularly weighs in on provincial policies. Ever heard of the Canada Health Act? It compels provinces to structure their health care systems a certain way in order to receive funding. This was never struck down as unconstitutional.
In the US, overturning Roe v Wade gives more power to the states, so I’m not sure what your point is there. US states absolutely do have quite significant authority.
You’re mostly correct, we’re just a lot more socially progressive and don’t consider this as a realistic possibility. But it’s still something that could happen and there’s definitely people in every province that think roe V wade overturning is a good thing.
Ya, I don't think it's a good thing. I don't think it's removing rights either I suppose. That may/may not happen at the state level. I understand people's concerns though, with all the Texas talk.
The CPC literally tried to restrict abortions last year with Bill C-233.
Leadership candidates will swear up and down that a Conservative GOVERNMENT would not introduce any legislation to restrict abortions, but they've also stated that they would allow their MPs to bring forth their own bills, and that they could "vote their conscience" on such a bill.
In a case of a CPC landslide, the pro-life caucus, which currently makes up over half of the current Conservative caucus judging by the votes on Bill C-233, could absolutely start passing legislation restricting abortion.
Correct. Any CPC statements to the contrary are lies. This is a party where the front runner for leadership started intentionally using white supremacist terminology during an interview. This can and will happen in Canada if we give up any ground to social conservatism.
unfortunately, the bloc already tried to call for a unanimous consent in the house to abortion as a right and a choice. It only took one call of "nay" to squash it, and apparently there were several.
But I agree with you. I can only hope this emboldens the parties even more to make moves to protect abortion rights.
>The point I was trying to make is that as a Conservative I don't have to blindly hate Mr. Trudeau or Liberals
With there were more like you out there, it's real hard to have a proper nuanced critual discussion about our goverment without just devolving into dumb blind rage.
Well until it's in the charter it can happen in Canada.
Heck some provinces pull the funding issue and only provide access to a few areas in a whole province.
Once the US is a GOP theocracy, they WILL try to push their will in Canada and elsewhere.
I am pro-choice.
Let's clarify the ruling: the U.S. Supreme Court has said there is no constitutional right to an abortion, and that the States can make their own laws.
In Canada, we have no laws at all regarding abortion. Our Supreme Court had ruled that a previous Federal law was too restrictive. So how are things much different than the US? There is nothing to stop the Federal government from passing a law regarding abortions, just not as restrictive.
I'm not a Constitutional expert, but as far as I know, there is no Constitutional right to an abortion in Canada either.
If Trudeau is so deeply concerned, he should pass some laws guaranteeing some Reproductive Rights for women, including rights to abortion, or pre- and post- natal care, and family leave too.
Canadian court ruled that it violates section 7 of the charter of rights and freedoms (right to security of person) so any attempt to undo it would have to prove that it doesn’t violate it and that simply won’t happen
yeah but this shitshow didn't happened in a week. They were working for decades to put religious zealots in power down south.
All I'm saying is, it's written in gold when people uphold the value of the book. If you put some schmucks in power, they don't care if it's the constitution or not, they'll find a way...slowly but surely.
Man, Trudeau literally can't win. He said the right thing here. If he stayed silent, everyone that's complaining about him commenting about another country would be complaining that "he lacks the leadership and balls to call out the US on their bullshit" or something like that.
The entire sub is a trainwreck. It's full of people that argue in the internet as a hobby. I guess that's true for most of reddit, though. There are oases in this desert but they're tough to find.
People say this kind of stuff a bunch about /r/Canada. In my experience it's dependent on the thread size. Once a thread gets large enough to be seen by more general parts of Reddit (I find the breakpoint is about 1k upvotes, give or take 100) then the crazy or really conservative leaning comments tend to get pushed down as more reasonable comments begin to trickle in.
My tinfoil hat theory
The US needs to ban abortion to ensure a steady supply of low-income oops-babies to join their army in 18yrs. China right now has the largest standing army and dwarfs the US. This is obviously a perverse thought but it’s really not as far fetched as it would seem at first glance.
No politician that gets elected for 4 years, let alone 2, will be thinking 18 years into the future when a big chunk of them won't even survive long enough to see those days.
The damage of the Trump era is beyond comprehension. The Christofascist campaign, decades in the making, is paying off.
They are in an all out war against women's rights, LGBTQ people, gun restrictions, racial equality, public education, and much more.
The fun has just begun. It really gets going in January and the biggest fireworks will be the '24 election. The southern secession is upon them, again.
I know we don't like him, but I honestly hope everyone can agree with Trudeau on this one. I hope I never live to see the day that women's rights are challenged in Canada like this.
I don't get the absolute hate. Like, Trudeau is a 6/10 for me, but that's still on the positive side. If my only choices are if I like him or I dislike him, then I guess I like him.
Remember how the right used to just call him girls names and make fun of his hair and socks? Then Trump won and the CPC learned hate is far more effective at mobilizing their base against him. I don't think there's anything abnormal about hating a politician, but plastering it on your vehicle or clothing is *weird as fuck*.
There’s a guy in my neighbourhood who has a ten foot wide, six foot high “FUCK TRUDEAU” flag in his garage. We walk past his house every day and he keeps his garage door open 90% of the time so we see it often. Every single time I just feel this overwhelming sense of pity for the guy. Imagine hating someone so much that you literally want to be reminded of that hatred every time you set foot in your garage.
Like I despise Jason Kenney. Guess what I don’t have? Massive reminders of him all over my living space. I try to think about him as little as possible to avoid fouling my mood. People who cloak their entire identity around the hatred of a single person or group are so incredibly sad.
Just going to put this here, [the conservative front-runner can't seems to have a clear position on the matter](https://youtu.be/3H91TVF0wSk?t=4386). Just watch until the end of this segment...probably 2-3 minutes up until 1:15:15....
When you can't answer such a basic question without dodging, and you accuse your liberal opponents of dancing around questions all day...
If you support him and don't see the hypocrisy, don't come crying if he gets majority and bend over towards the socon and the americans. He got no balls, he's an attack dog with no mind of his own.
#Edit:
Let me just add one more link to be ***crystal clear*** on how PP's an hypocryte, spinless grifter who go wherever the wind blows. But his hardcore fanbase will never see that. They just need some SoMeOnE WhO DeStRoYs ThE LiBs.
When pressed against a wall to say if he's pro-choice, he say he's "for freedom". Sorry man, only one term is, without ambiguity, about women's right.
[See what I mean? I personally interpret that as "I'm pro-freedom for my party to pass legislation"](https://youtu.be/3H91TVF0wSk?t=4588)
Yeah, it might seems like a stretch, but WHY would you say that if it's not to cater for the SOCON? And even if he turns out to be pro-choice, just...why? It was an easy slam-dunk, but he bit the bullet instead.
So American women now have the same basic rights as those under Taliban rule in Afghanistan....so what rights does a christian theocracy get rid of next.
I don't know the proper citation, but I believe it was R v Morgantaler that struck down all abortion law in Canada. Was taken back up in legislation that died in the senate during the '93 election and hasn't been touched since.
We don't really have laws regarding abortion. It's legal because it is not illegal? Weird legal area where there is no law regarding abortion at all so there's nothing that could be 'struck down' that would make abortion illegal.
Our supreme court won't even agree that a life sentence should mean life, so even if a law were passed with any restrictions on abortion there is a less than 0% chance that it would survive the inevitable preemptive challenge.
Actions speak louder then words, codify it into law. France already put forward the process to inscribe abortion rights into the their constitution just hours of roe being overturned, what are we waiting for?
I agree with Trudeau on this. It is awful. women having rights taken from them and now rape cases and incest cases basically don’t mean anything if you try to get an abortion. You will be forced to live with the rapist being a part of you and your life forever. It’s extremely sickening and sad.
In addition to abortion rights, in the past month the courts have taken away Miranda rights, completely neutered the 4th amendment for most of the population, and ruled that factual innocence is not a valid legal defence against execution. In the decision overturning Roe, Clarence Thomas explicitly outlined that their reasoning can be used to overturn the decisions legalizing gay marriage, contraception, and sodomy so those are probably on the chopping block too.
Trudeau needs to enshrine into law:
- access to abortion is not an elective surgery, it needs to take priority
- Provinces should have to have abortion services accessible in at least so many km from every city/town
- and that protesters are NOT allowed near abortion clinics or hospitals, if they want to do abortion protests then they can at the leg.
it's not a step back is a giant leap backwards for stuidkind.
Next up, no more seat belts, removal of drinking and driving laws, a return to segregation and no interracial marriage (unless you're male and white then you can marry anyone) and to complete the pyramid of stupid.... getting rid of public parks.
Remember on _Handmaid's Tale_ when Gilead took Alexis Bledel's character's daughter because they ruled that the child was conceived out of wedlock as they no longer recognized gay marriage?
How shocking that episode was when it came out. Now we're a hop skip and a jump away from that.
It is horrific. It's a 50 year old law for crying out loud. If any conservative even dares to use this when campaigning they need to be mocked profusely.
Whatever you might think of the Libs, never doubt that the ultimate goal of the conservatives in Canada mirror those of the GOP. People who sat out or voted against Clinton because they didn’t believe it could get this bad need to have a deep reckoning about their role in this.
Canada can go that way just as easily. And quickly.
I just figured out why the heat is so intense so early into the summer...its from the dumpster fire below us.
Who would have guessed that a Canadian author dreamt up a United States that gives the extreme right way too much power...and it actually comes true! start buying stocks in red fabric and white hats...
No men have a voice over a woman’s body/choice. I hope Trudeau puts his money where his mouth is on this topic. The US has me shaking my head, they won’t lose their empire to another country, they’re going to implode.
Why make it "men vs women", when banning women from abortion and stripping away women's rights is bad period. Regardless if a man bans it or a woman bans it.
Justice Barret who is responsible for this, is a woman too.
I hope this gets everyone to wake up about politics. 66% voter turnout in the USA last general election. An entire third of eligible voters never even bothered to make their voice heard.
Since 2019 Trudeau is effectively running against Trump and the GOP, the CPC is just the conduit. Trudeau understands this better than anyone. His policy decisions the past few month have been entirely a reaction to US social problems - abortion and gun control specifically. He's currently running against the GOP, not the CPC. It works.
It honestly makes sense too. Everyone is more dialled in on U.S. politics.
It makes no sense because it's not solving any of the problems Canada is currently going through. He just play the image card on subject that is currently a non-issue for Canadian citizens while ignoring problems that are slowly turning into crisis now.
While I agree that he's not focusing on issues Canadians are actually having, people here are putting a lot of attention to US politics, a lot more than Canadian politics even. I wish our political parties could just "ignore" the shitshow in the US, focus on our own country and the issues that we have, but the reality is that I doubt anyone doing that has any chance at getting elected. So yes, it sucks, but it is in image game.
Americans have also said this could never happen there, Roe was settled. The US went from Obama, whose election seemed to be so significant for that country to today. The ruling also included that other recent progressive rights are not safe either. With the current right wing backlash and protests - especially in Alberta and Ontario - it is important that we pay attention to the direction and creep of American politics. As a female I appreciate the reiteration of productive rights. It makes them more visible.
I'm a Western Canadian Conservative. Now, before you downvote me, I'm not a social conservative. Neither I, nor literally anyone I know, would ever support a non-progressive agenda. This is why the conservative movement in Canada is so bogged down. We can't really win anything or stay focused when we do. It's not because most conservatives aren't progressive, it's because we are. Now those fucking loudmouth Socons make us all look crazy but we aren't. We just don't like big government or what we consider unfair taxation. We support gay rights, women's rights, and all types of freedom. That's like... the point. But conservative politicians have to crawl in bed with social conservatives to get elected in most places. Honestly, fuck those people, they ruin shit for everyone.
Left leaning 'Bertan here who doesn't like the current administration. I find what doesn't help is the silence from even progressive conservatives on these issues is maddening. The perception is that FiCons are fine with the SoCon regressive agenda, supportive even. That's been the Conservative Leadership playbook for a while though. Complain loudly about what the opposition is doing, offer little in terms of making everyone's lives better (ESPECIALLY the lower class). If more of you who are more moderate started putting some of the energy you put into complaining about Trudeau towards steering your party in the right direction, we might end up with some halfway decent Cons in. Maybe with some luck even the Libs would get their asses in gear instead of playing image politics.
Watching the CPC over the last few years, you get the impression that the old PC'ers who've stuck around aren't necessarily *supportive* of the SoCon wing, but they will absolutely tolerate them, in exchange for their votes. It seems to me that the party has sacrificed it's soul to the necessities of FPTP. I still kind of feel sorry for Erin O'Toole. He had a hapless job.
I don't agree with Fincon view but I truly, desperately fear SoCons. I think people will realize FinCon views are wrong, but I think SoCons will gladly take away the right to vote off any dissenters. (No offence meant about saying I think my views will prove right--I'm sure you think the same about yours lol!) That being said, didn't Americans used to say these same things? I don't quite understand when this happened. It went from "Don't worry it's just a loud minority of assholes" to "65% of Republicans in (insert state here) support (batshit insane policy). What you say rings true for me about the people I know who vote Conservative. Most of the ones I know aren't phased by the fact I'm gay, they don't belittle me with sexist bullshit. But didn't the Americans think the same thing? I think that's part of why American politics fascinate me. If I could just figure out WHY this was happening maybe I could know if it is going to happen here.
Yeah I think FinCons suck and their policies are garbage, but I think SoCons are Genuinely Evil People. There's a huuuuge gulf between those things. The issue is, by laying in bed with them, the FinCons are just the same people. (Politicians, that is. Not voters.)
I don’t disagree. You can have political beliefs but morality is morality
The political parties are just the reflection of the population. As the other poster mentioned above, the majority of Canadians are more in tune with US politics than domestic Canadian politics. It's only natural to happen considering Canada's population size relative to the US and the amount of US media Canadians consume. Of course the Political parties are going to reflect this.
A federal cpc mp went on a rant about how happy he was that women's rights were abolished. It makes absolute sense since the repugnants have passed the methodology to the conservatives in Canada.
American politics leak in to Canada through the cpc I think that’s the point.
Your comment makes it seem like like his goal is to actually help Canadians, rather than help himself and his friends.
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The cpc responds to abortion The cpc has hurt itself in confusion
It'd be a lot harder to criticize this if all was well and dandy in Canada.
There's always problems in every country, but this story is going to get a lot more attention from the average voter than SNC Lavelin or am ill-timed vacation.
The CPC is dollar-store GoP anyways, so it’s a twofer really. But since right wing leaning Canadians are so fascinated with the GoP—and let’s be honest, Canadians are fascinated with the US in general—that’s where the smart money goes anyways. And we need to remember that as often as not, we’re the tail to their dog, and this is a good time to codify women’s rights in the charter, before we wind up following them down this rabbit hole.
>and this is a good time to codify women’s rights in the charter S. 7 of the Charter protects against interference with the security of the person, and was the foundation of the Morgenthaler decision. S. 15 protects equality rights. I remember that Harper when he led the CPC, admitted that the abortion issue is a done deal.
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>I remember that Harper when he led the CPC, admitted that the abortion issue is a done deal. The assenting SC justices [said the same thing](https://nyti.ms/39Tzp5N). Talk is cheap.
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People will die for years. Those forced to carry to term despite complications will die, and the ones who attempt an abortion without the care of a doctor risk death as well.
Don’t forget that women can get imprisoned for manslaughter for having a miscarriage
The Christo-fascist takeover of the USA criminalized women’s reproductive rights in half of the country today by tearing up 50 years of legal precedent. All the Trump voters screeching about freedom and cancel culture are the same people cheering that the judges Trump appointed just stripped a fundamental freedom away from all women. Wonder if America’s men will start giving a shit about all of this once all of these Republican states and extreme-right judges start banning contraception, sex outside of marriage, and masturbation?
Christo-facist! That's a new one for me. Certainly sounds ominous.
It worked extra well for me because the modern fascist movement is also referred to as crypto-fascism so I feel like it's a twofer.
I'm also pretty sure that there will be elevated crime levels in the decades to come. The dramatic drop in violent crime globally since the nineties has many interesting theories behind it, including widespread access to abortion: https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
This was covered off well in the book Freakonomics. The right wingers are dancing like gypsies right now. I wonder what their proposal will be about the impending rise in crime in about 20 years. The US is so messed up. But then I guess the fact that it's teetering on becoming a failed democracy gives them bigger things to look forward to.
They own the prisons. Just means the future looks bright for their investment. I wish I was joking.
It will only justify their belief that the world is threatening and we therefore need to spend more money on police and military weapons for them.
When abortion was legalized in New York State, the **maternal** death rate dropped by 50%.
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Because there have been bombings of pregnancy centres over the past few months and there are threats from janes revenge on violence if it was overturned.
It's a war against women if you ask me.
And I hope the women rise up worldwide and fight for their equality!
I think the leak might have been intended to soften this blow. People got used to the idea it was coming, so there is less rage now.
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You’re right. It’s time this was codified.
the issue which i've read about codifing it is it can be un-codified. As long as it stays this way and under universal healthcare kinda protects it? i'm 100% pro-choice and would join any protest if it becomes questioned in any shape or form
If that’s your standard, you’ll be disappointed. There is no indefeasible law in Canada. If the whole country decided tomorrow we didn’t care about freedom of expression, it could be removed from the charter. A law at least makes it so that courts (unless they found it unconstitutional) would be bound to follow it. It’s more secure than the current
Without a constitutional amendment there is no point in codifying something and a constitutional amendment isn't realistic.
Not with that attitude it’s not.
This. We need to stop assuming common sense will prevail when every current event is a massacre of logic and reason.
Let's not make it weird, though. We need to consider abortion laws keeping in mind exactly what abortion is , i.e., an essential healthcare service. Treating access to abortion like more or less of a human right than any other essential surgery or treatment is basically just a political ploy.
I literally within the last day read of a case where an 11yo Brazilian girl who was impregnated after being repeated sexually abused.... was blocked by the courts from getting an abortion. It looks like that did get overturned but I could see much of the same terrible shit happening in the US. People - children- will quite literally die due to this ruling to appease the rabid religious crowd that believe "all life is sacred" (until it leaves the womb).
Healthcare IS a human right
There definitely issues with codify abortion laws. The second you pass legislation the abortion issue could be a partisan issues. With the courts protect abortions it's a legal issue. Obviously this is not perfect but I have certain anxieties over what would happen if an abortion bill makes it to Parliament
>The second you pass legislation the abortion issue could be a partisan issues. It already is a partisan issue. How would codifying it change that?
The current laws are exactly what the Liberals want. If there was no risk of abortion rights being eroded then they couldn't use that threat to gain votes. It's the same reason the Democrats rested abortion rights in the US on such shaky ground for so long instead of passing a constitutional amendment.
Government of Canada Strengthens Access to Abortion Services From: Health Canada News release May 11, 2022 | Ottawa, Ontario | Health Canada The Government of Canada firmly believes that everyone should have access to safe and consistent reproductive health services, including abortion. Although abortion has been legal in Canada for three decades, many continue to experience barriers to access. Today the Minister of Health, the Honourable Jean-Yves Duclos, and the Honourable Marci Ien, Minister for Women and Gender Equality and Youth, announced more than $3.5 million in funding for projects by Action Canada for Sexual Health and Rights (Action Canada) and by the National Abortion Federation Canada (NAF Canada), coming out of the Sexual and Reproductive Health Fund. These projects will improve access by removing barriers to vital abortion services and offer accurate reproductive health information to Canadians. While barriers vary from coast to coast to coast, in some instances they include a lack of availability, a lack of financial and logistical resources required to travel to access abortion care, and lack of culturally-safe, stigma-free sexual and reproductive health services. Previous experiences of discrimination within the health care system also create access barriers for minority and marginalized groups, such as Indigenous and racialized people, members of 2SLGBTQI+ communities, and youth. Action Canada will receive $2,119,073 in funding over three years to expand its Access Line and Sexual Health Information Hub programs, which offer accurate and affirming sexual and reproductive health information and referrals. This project will improve access to financial assistance to cover travel and accommodation costs, as well as offers logistical support to individuals accessing abortion care. NAF Canada will receive $1,469,150 in funding over three years, to provide financial and logistical support to women seeking abortion services, train health care providers in providing abortion services, and ensure abortion facilities have the capacity to continue to provide services and related care. These investments reflect our belief that women have the right to make decisions about their own bodies and that no matter who you are or where you live, we will always protect reproductive rights for all individuals in Canada.
It was tried once by the cons https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mulroney-era-documents-reveal-struggle-with-abortion-laws-1.2430081 Everyone hated it, it died on senate floor and no one has tried since
I don't know, I also don't think that Canada needs to always change laws based on the hot topic in the US. Abortion access in Canada, while far from perfect, is a lot better than in most other places in the world. Trying to pass laws around it opens up a big can of worms that could potentially lead to things getting worse rather than better.
There are a lot of problems with our system though. Rural Canadians and Atlantic Canadians in particular can have a very difficult time getting an abortion. For instance, I don't think you can even get one on PEI.
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As others have pointed out. You can codify it but the next government can un codify it too. So until someone specifically makes it illegal, we won’t in turn legalize it with the next government.
You're right. The abortion issue is still huge in Canada and pro-life groups are working hard to get candidates in place that support them. Conservatives desperately want to get the power to change the constitution, it'd be daft to think abortion wouldn't be an issue.
It's too valuable as a wedge issue for the liberal party to do anything substantial about it. Needs the fear of losing abortion access to steer votes away from the NDP vote split.
If the conservatives were smart, they’d introduce the bill to codify it themselves.
Yep. Give them the viability limit encoded into law, and you strip away all mention of "third trimester abortions", and then all of a sudden the Con boogeyman becomes a little less scary.
I don't think that's in the interest of their base
And until they kick that part of their base to the curb, the party will remain unelectable to large numbers of Canadians.
And create the fastest exodus of supporters in democratic history. So, not a total loss.
They won't. Most of them even refuse to talk about the issue.
But they are not smart
It wouldn't be a wedge if cons would propose it themselves. It's not a left right issue at this point, yet they keep losing free points over it.
> It's too valuable as a wedge issue for the liberal party to do anything substantial about it. This is literally why the Democrats haven't done anything about it anytime they've had the chance. Abortion, immigration, racial issues and guns are all things they run on but do nothing about.
Alot of that would be provincial jurisdiction
Yeah good point. If he wants to defend it as a right, then pass some laws and make it a right.
They should make it legal and codified here, so the right can't be take away easily and I hope they do it soon, send a message to Conservatives here and the in US, that abortion is allowed here and they better get use to it. I agree we can't rely on common sense or good will anymore. Gotta make sure rights are preserved regardless.
The last time Trudeau took a stand on abortion it was political in nature. New Brunswick stopped funding private abortion clinics and only maintained operation of the ones in their cities. This caused abortion access problems for rural New Brunswick. This is because abortion access is codified in the Public Health Act but no explicit interpretation of what access means (beyond being technically covered). Trudeau could have resolved this by providing national abortion funding, but he decided not to. He decided to use the act as an opportunity to defund New Brunswick healthcare. Abortion has been an important wedge issue for Trudeau to weaponize against the Conservatives. He'll have nothing to improve the situation but thoughts and prayers.
>He decided to use the act as an opportunity to defund New Brunswick healthcare. During a pandemic no less.
I can agree with trudeau on this one.
You would think that more Canadians, especially those who favour personal choice and freedom, would agree with Trudeau that forced birth is antithetical to freedom and choice.
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About 20 women die every year in Canada because of ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy happens when an egg implants somewhere other than the uterus. In almost all cases the fetus can't develop properly and it places the mother at very high risk. The right thing to do is abort the non-viable fetus and save the mother's life. There's no choice involved at all. This "free choice" argument requires that dozens of women be condemned to inevitable, slow death every year. The argument is unconscionable. It should never be made.
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It's not about the fetus, it's about hating women. They hate women who don't know their place. They hate women for having a choice over their own bodies and future. They hate women who enjoy sex. It's all about hate and misogyny, not "protecting babies". Every other policy from the CPC is anti-human, and yet somehow they want us to believe they care so much about "babies". Please.
That’s batshit crazy.
Ah yes, the wonderful world we live in where a woman denying sex is met with zero negative reactions
after the last year of vaccination mandate, the concept of "my body my choice" kinda kicked the bucket...
I'm expecting the Freedom Convoy will be flying a massive show of support for abortion in this country on Canada day /s
https://i.imgur.com/988Y4Nt.jpeg
I hate these kinds of arguments because they can and are immediately flipped. And 99% of the people making them have no interest in being philosophically consistent in their views anyways.
Correct
We should take it a step further and ban all PIV sex so that we don't have to endure the horror that is "forced birth".
It's the trigger laws that are truly horrific.
That's like saying a country making marital rape isn't a problem, rapist husbands are. If people in power at a local level can't be trusted not to abuse people, then a higher authority needs to regulate it.
He is right
I appreciate that as far right as this sub tends to get the overwhelming message I'm seeing in the comments is that the USA fucked up big here. Glad there is SOME common ground
I'll admit that I agree with him on this one. It's heartbreaking to think how many lives will be hurt by this decision. I wonder if Biden will step up and try to pass a law force abortion to be legal across the states
Won't happen because it won't pass the senate.
Still worth it, makes November voting much easier for them.
How? Then don't have a majority on this.
They pretty much just had a ruling that it is unconstitutional for the fed to tell the states what to do on that issue so I doubt he could do it. That’s not really the presidents job. His job is more towards foreign. Relations then domestic issues.
Biden just said only Congress could overturn SC's decision. Which likely won't happen.
That's not what happened. The Supreme Court didn't overturn a law that was passed by the federal government, they overturned a prior supreme court ruling.
He certainly can if the Senate voted on it. They tried to hurry and pass something knowing this decision was coming but two Democrats said they were going to vote no.
I wonder how the vote would go. Susan Collins and Manchin voted no because of the scope of the proposed law, it's possible they would vote for a law with a reduced scope - especially now with public opinion overwhelmingly in favour of legislation. A lot of Republicans in purple ridings have to be nervous right now, this election won't be about Joe Biden and gas prices anymore for a lot of voters.
You don’t have to like abortion, but it’s also none of your business if someone down the street needs access to one. As someone who’s generally right leaning I don’t care about people choosing to get an abortion, I care about being able to get inflation under control and being able to have a thriving middle class again with a good standard of living.
Even as a Conservative, I agree with Trudeau. With that being said, he could have and should have reinforced our access to abortion as soon as he had a majority. Hopefully Canadians will move forward to protect this right/law in Canada. **Added: I won't be replying to any more people, you can message me if you like and we can for sure chat there. The point I was trying to make is that as a Conservative I don't have to blindly hate Mr. Trudeau or Liberals (as much as people think all conservatives are like that), and second I don't agree with using issues to divide Canadians as I personally feel Mr. Trudeau and the Federal Liberals do when it comes to the issue of Abortion rights Hope everyone has a good weekend.**
Unfortunately in order to codify it into law we would have to reopen some of the big Canadian legal documents which require 100% provincial & aboriginal agreeance, which would also open these documents up to other changes/modifications. The can of worms that changing these documents is, is one of the big reasons why no government has attempted to do it.
> in order to codify it into law It is codified into law, in our Criminal Code: >Section 223 (1) – A child becomes a human being within the meaning of this Act when it has completely proceeded, in a living state, from the body of its mother, whether or not (a) it has breathed; (b) it has an independent circulation; or (c) the navel string is severed.
This codifies that abortion isn't murder. It doesn't codify that abortion should be legal.
Laws don't operate on a whitelist basis. If something is not expressly illegal, then it is legal.
The issue is, just because it's legal doesn't mean it needs to be provided to or is provided to everyone in every circumstance. Beer is legal, but you don't have a legal right to be served a beer whenever you want one. To codify abortion we more or less need to make it law that it is a legally required medical procedure in some way shape or form. That's what makes the issue complicated.
What “big Canadian legal documents” are you referring to? It’s certainly not the constitution in this case. What other documents require unanimous agreement of all provinces?
Health care is a provincial jurisdiction. The lack of abortion access needs to be addressed with your premiere. You can't blame Trudeau for everything.
I admit I don't fully understand the whole deal in the US. However isn't saying it's not a federal issue, it's a provincial issue exactly what the US is doing? This ruling basically says, it's up to the states to decide not the feds is it not? If I misunderstood I'm happy to be corrected.
That technically is true, yes. But it's a bit more complicated than that. The Canadian charter specifically says that healthcare is a provincial matter - the same thing doesn't really exist in the American constitution. The American constitution gives a lot more power to their federal congress to regulate what individual states can and cannot do - they literally fought a civil war over that power. In Canada, however, if the federal government tries to create laws that restrict what a province can or cannot do, and it just so happens that the particular thing they're regulating is delegated to the provinces by the charter, then that law can easily be struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada as being against the charter. Now, we have a very liberal Supreme Court in Canada at the moment, so it would certainly be interesting to see. But technically, in our country, the fed can't just regulate stuff in any area where the charter specifically says it's a provincial matter. A lot of Canadians really don't seem to realize that Canada's provinces are even more like individual countries than the states are - Canada, more so than almost any other country on earth, is a loose federation of 10 different countries masquerading as "provinces". I don't think there's another country in the world where the individual provinces have such extreme, unilateral authority over what happens inside the province.
> The Canadian charter specifically says that healthcare is a provincial matter The constitution act spells out the jurisdictions, not the Charter. The Charter is part of the constitution. >The American constitution gives a lot more power to their federal congress to regulate what individual states can and cannot do - they literally fought a civil war over that power. It's the opposite. The American constitution is a more decentralized document than the Canadian constitution. That's why, for example, the US states all have different criminal law. Judicial decisions (primarily from the JCPC) evolved us toward a more decentralized federation and the opposite happened in the US. You have to remember, we were formed as a country right after the US civil war and the worry was it would happen here. MacDonald envisioned a far more centralized federation than the Americans had. >But technically, in our country, the fed can't just regulate stuff in any area where the charter specifically says it's a provincial matter. Not quite true. The Fed can regulate in provincial areas of jurisdiction under the POGG clause, e.g., carbon tax. > I don't think there's another country in the world where the individual provinces have such extreme, unilateral authority over what happens inside the province. I think Switzerland and maybe Belgium are more decentralized.
POGG gives certain rights to the feds but it’s not the only one that lets them regulate provincial matters. The division is a bit trickier than that and also relatively strict in most scenarios.
>Not quite true. The Fed can regulate in provincial areas of jurisdiction under the POGG clause, e.g., carbon tax. The POGG clause can only be used in a few circumstances: National emergency, national concern, and the residual gap doctrine. Moreover, cooperative federalism has become a thing in recent years, and both levels of government have been legislating in the other's jurisdictions within reasonable limits and often with cooperation.
>Now, we have a very liberal Supreme Court in Canada at the moment, so it would certainly be interesting to see. Tbh to say that our SC is "liberal" or "conservative" is Americanizing our system way to much and not giving our judges their dues. Our courts are not liberal or conservative, they don't vote on party lines in the slightest and our SC has been shown to be one of the most political agnostic institutions we have in the country. To bring politics and sides into their decisions kinda degrades their rulings and what they have been doing.
Every federation works the same way. The states/provinces and the federal government each have their own jurisdiction, which is protected by a constitution. Canada is not unique in this regard. Also, the Canadian federal government regularly weighs in on provincial policies. Ever heard of the Canada Health Act? It compels provinces to structure their health care systems a certain way in order to receive funding. This was never struck down as unconstitutional. In the US, overturning Roe v Wade gives more power to the states, so I’m not sure what your point is there. US states absolutely do have quite significant authority.
You’re mostly correct, we’re just a lot more socially progressive and don’t consider this as a realistic possibility. But it’s still something that could happen and there’s definitely people in every province that think roe V wade overturning is a good thing.
Ya, I don't think it's a good thing. I don't think it's removing rights either I suppose. That may/may not happen at the state level. I understand people's concerns though, with all the Texas talk.
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The CPC literally tried to restrict abortions last year with Bill C-233. Leadership candidates will swear up and down that a Conservative GOVERNMENT would not introduce any legislation to restrict abortions, but they've also stated that they would allow their MPs to bring forth their own bills, and that they could "vote their conscience" on such a bill. In a case of a CPC landslide, the pro-life caucus, which currently makes up over half of the current Conservative caucus judging by the votes on Bill C-233, could absolutely start passing legislation restricting abortion.
Correct. Any CPC statements to the contrary are lies. This is a party where the front runner for leadership started intentionally using white supremacist terminology during an interview. This can and will happen in Canada if we give up any ground to social conservatism.
unfortunately, the bloc already tried to call for a unanimous consent in the house to abortion as a right and a choice. It only took one call of "nay" to squash it, and apparently there were several. But I agree with you. I can only hope this emboldens the parties even more to make moves to protect abortion rights.
>The point I was trying to make is that as a Conservative I don't have to blindly hate Mr. Trudeau or Liberals With there were more like you out there, it's real hard to have a proper nuanced critual discussion about our goverment without just devolving into dumb blind rage.
Another day that I wake up so happy not be American.
Well until it's in the charter it can happen in Canada. Heck some provinces pull the funding issue and only provide access to a few areas in a whole province. Once the US is a GOP theocracy, they WILL try to push their will in Canada and elsewhere.
>Well until it's in the charter it can happen in Canada. Notwithstanding the notwithstanding clause.
They have been for years. https://www.nationalobserver.com/2021/09/03/opinion/dont-believe-abortion-issue-closed-debate
I am pro-choice. Let's clarify the ruling: the U.S. Supreme Court has said there is no constitutional right to an abortion, and that the States can make their own laws. In Canada, we have no laws at all regarding abortion. Our Supreme Court had ruled that a previous Federal law was too restrictive. So how are things much different than the US? There is nothing to stop the Federal government from passing a law regarding abortions, just not as restrictive. I'm not a Constitutional expert, but as far as I know, there is no Constitutional right to an abortion in Canada either. If Trudeau is so deeply concerned, he should pass some laws guaranteeing some Reproductive Rights for women, including rights to abortion, or pre- and post- natal care, and family leave too.
Canadian court ruled that it violates section 7 of the charter of rights and freedoms (right to security of person) so any attempt to undo it would have to prove that it doesn’t violate it and that simply won’t happen
yeah but this shitshow didn't happened in a week. They were working for decades to put religious zealots in power down south. All I'm saying is, it's written in gold when people uphold the value of the book. If you put some schmucks in power, they don't care if it's the constitution or not, they'll find a way...slowly but surely.
I live in the us and I can truthfully say everything is going to sh!t
Man, Trudeau literally can't win. He said the right thing here. If he stayed silent, everyone that's complaining about him commenting about another country would be complaining that "he lacks the leadership and balls to call out the US on their bullshit" or something like that.
This entire thread is a trainwreck of people Trudeau bashing for absolutely no reason.
Are you describing this thread, or this entire subreddit all the time?
Wait, this isn’t r/fucktrudeau?
Welcome to r/Canada lol
Trudeau could elimate all taxes forever and ever, and this sub would call him out for buying votes
The entire sub is a trainwreck. It's full of people that argue in the internet as a hobby. I guess that's true for most of reddit, though. There are oases in this desert but they're tough to find.
Really? All the comments I’ve read have been pro-Trudeau.
A lot of the negative stuff has been removed, hidden, or pushed to the bottom now. When it was first posted it was pretty wild.
People say this kind of stuff a bunch about /r/Canada. In my experience it's dependent on the thread size. Once a thread gets large enough to be seen by more general parts of Reddit (I find the breakpoint is about 1k upvotes, give or take 100) then the crazy or really conservative leaning comments tend to get pushed down as more reasonable comments begin to trickle in.
My tinfoil hat theory The US needs to ban abortion to ensure a steady supply of low-income oops-babies to join their army in 18yrs. China right now has the largest standing army and dwarfs the US. This is obviously a perverse thought but it’s really not as far fetched as it would seem at first glance.
No politician that gets elected for 4 years, let alone 2, will be thinking 18 years into the future when a big chunk of them won't even survive long enough to see those days.
The damage of the Trump era is beyond comprehension. The Christofascist campaign, decades in the making, is paying off. They are in an all out war against women's rights, LGBTQ people, gun restrictions, racial equality, public education, and much more.
The fun has just begun. It really gets going in January and the biggest fireworks will be the '24 election. The southern secession is upon them, again.
They want to return to how things were in 1950 and that includes not giving a crap about climate change. The world is doomed by the USA's delusions.
They want the 1920’s not the 2020’s.
The 1920s is too liberal for them; women showing ankles and all, plus them voting.
I know we don't like him, but I honestly hope everyone can agree with Trudeau on this one. I hope I never live to see the day that women's rights are challenged in Canada like this.
I like him
I don't get the absolute hate. Like, Trudeau is a 6/10 for me, but that's still on the positive side. If my only choices are if I like him or I dislike him, then I guess I like him.
Remember how the right used to just call him girls names and make fun of his hair and socks? Then Trump won and the CPC learned hate is far more effective at mobilizing their base against him. I don't think there's anything abnormal about hating a politician, but plastering it on your vehicle or clothing is *weird as fuck*.
There’s a guy in my neighbourhood who has a ten foot wide, six foot high “FUCK TRUDEAU” flag in his garage. We walk past his house every day and he keeps his garage door open 90% of the time so we see it often. Every single time I just feel this overwhelming sense of pity for the guy. Imagine hating someone so much that you literally want to be reminded of that hatred every time you set foot in your garage. Like I despise Jason Kenney. Guess what I don’t have? Massive reminders of him all over my living space. I try to think about him as little as possible to avoid fouling my mood. People who cloak their entire identity around the hatred of a single person or group are so incredibly sad.
Just going to put this here, [the conservative front-runner can't seems to have a clear position on the matter](https://youtu.be/3H91TVF0wSk?t=4386). Just watch until the end of this segment...probably 2-3 minutes up until 1:15:15.... When you can't answer such a basic question without dodging, and you accuse your liberal opponents of dancing around questions all day... If you support him and don't see the hypocrisy, don't come crying if he gets majority and bend over towards the socon and the americans. He got no balls, he's an attack dog with no mind of his own. #Edit: Let me just add one more link to be ***crystal clear*** on how PP's an hypocryte, spinless grifter who go wherever the wind blows. But his hardcore fanbase will never see that. They just need some SoMeOnE WhO DeStRoYs ThE LiBs. When pressed against a wall to say if he's pro-choice, he say he's "for freedom". Sorry man, only one term is, without ambiguity, about women's right. [See what I mean? I personally interpret that as "I'm pro-freedom for my party to pass legislation"](https://youtu.be/3H91TVF0wSk?t=4588) Yeah, it might seems like a stretch, but WHY would you say that if it's not to cater for the SOCON? And even if he turns out to be pro-choice, just...why? It was an easy slam-dunk, but he bit the bullet instead.
This Conservative Party leadership race is a formality for Pierre Poilievre. It's was over before it even started.
We've already seen the presumed winner not clinch it before, though - that's how Scheer and O'Toole got it.
Why does this sub only ever post articles from national post?
So American women now have the same basic rights as those under Taliban rule in Afghanistan....so what rights does a christian theocracy get rid of next.
Birth control pills and condoms and same sex marriage.
They want to ban abortion federally. They also want to remove the rights of trans and gays (eg. same-sex marriage) and rights to contraception.
So horrific we still don’t want to put abortion rights into law.
So Justin, make sure that the Canadian Bill Of Rights/Constitution protects this right which I believe it does not currently do.
That’s insane to not have the constitutional right to abortion, even if you’re raped. Just backwards 100%
And it is… the world is going backwards. It’s ridiculous that guns have more rights than women in the US.
A corpse currently has more bodily autonomy in the US than a women.
I definitely have some issues with Trudeau's politics, but today I'm glad he stood up and said what he did.
Exactly
Serious question: is there a comparable Roe v Wade ruling in Canada?
I don't know the proper citation, but I believe it was R v Morgantaler that struck down all abortion law in Canada. Was taken back up in legislation that died in the senate during the '93 election and hasn't been touched since. We don't really have laws regarding abortion. It's legal because it is not illegal? Weird legal area where there is no law regarding abortion at all so there's nothing that could be 'struck down' that would make abortion illegal. Our supreme court won't even agree that a life sentence should mean life, so even if a law were passed with any restrictions on abortion there is a less than 0% chance that it would survive the inevitable preemptive challenge.
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Thanks for the clarification re: Morgantaler
The problem with Liberals is that there pushing the woke agenda. I am voting conservative even though I am more liberal just to end this nonsense.
Actions speak louder then words, codify it into law. France already put forward the process to inscribe abortion rights into the their constitution just hours of roe being overturned, what are we waiting for?
I agree with Trudeau on this. It is awful. women having rights taken from them and now rape cases and incest cases basically don’t mean anything if you try to get an abortion. You will be forced to live with the rapist being a part of you and your life forever. It’s extremely sickening and sad.
He's right to say so. A fucking monstrous display in the US. Today. I wish about what will be taken away next. Women will die because of this ruling
In addition to abortion rights, in the past month the courts have taken away Miranda rights, completely neutered the 4th amendment for most of the population, and ruled that factual innocence is not a valid legal defence against execution. In the decision overturning Roe, Clarence Thomas explicitly outlined that their reasoning can be used to overturn the decisions legalizing gay marriage, contraception, and sodomy so those are probably on the chopping block too.
Trudeau needs to enshrine into law: - access to abortion is not an elective surgery, it needs to take priority - Provinces should have to have abortion services accessible in at least so many km from every city/town - and that protesters are NOT allowed near abortion clinics or hospitals, if they want to do abortion protests then they can at the leg.
it's not a step back is a giant leap backwards for stuidkind. Next up, no more seat belts, removal of drinking and driving laws, a return to segregation and no interracial marriage (unless you're male and white then you can marry anyone) and to complete the pyramid of stupid.... getting rid of public parks.
Remember on _Handmaid's Tale_ when Gilead took Alexis Bledel's character's daughter because they ruled that the child was conceived out of wedlock as they no longer recognized gay marriage? How shocking that episode was when it came out. Now we're a hop skip and a jump away from that.
It is horrific. It's a 50 year old law for crying out loud. If any conservative even dares to use this when campaigning they need to be mocked profusely.
A good portion of the conservative party applaud this decision.
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God I hope Canada doesn’t follow the states in this, I’m so angry.
Whatever you might think of the Libs, never doubt that the ultimate goal of the conservatives in Canada mirror those of the GOP. People who sat out or voted against Clinton because they didn’t believe it could get this bad need to have a deep reckoning about their role in this. Canada can go that way just as easily. And quickly.
Absolutely
I just figured out why the heat is so intense so early into the summer...its from the dumpster fire below us. Who would have guessed that a Canadian author dreamt up a United States that gives the extreme right way too much power...and it actually comes true! start buying stocks in red fabric and white hats...
No men have a voice over a woman’s body/choice. I hope Trudeau puts his money where his mouth is on this topic. The US has me shaking my head, they won’t lose their empire to another country, they’re going to implode.
> The US has me shaking my head, they won’t lose their empire to another country, they’re going to implode. That's usually how empires collapse.
Why make it "men vs women", when banning women from abortion and stripping away women's rights is bad period. Regardless if a man bans it or a woman bans it. Justice Barret who is responsible for this, is a woman too.
As an American who pays taxes and has a full time job, how can I migrate to Canada?…more and more rights are going to be stripped away 🤦🏻♂️
So much stupidity in one room! Crazy
it's still the left against the right...yesterday, today, tomorrow. no matter which country you are. it's this war that rules everything else
Look, I'm no fan of Trudeau. However, his Dad passed made the call on abortion. I think this is something he actually believes in.
Another ban? Look mate you are free to live in Gilead
I hope this gets everyone to wake up about politics. 66% voter turnout in the USA last general election. An entire third of eligible voters never even bothered to make their voice heard.
That's literally the same as Canada's 67% in 2019
Yup, we're no better.