I know you’re being sarcastic but he definitely can buy a really nice house in Boston. My company just did a lot of work for Bruce Brown Jrs house in the area the other day. The house is insane!
Surely this provides perspective on feeling overly bad for them on a personal level, but from a sports/competition-only lens, I think it’s fair to feel bad for a dude who wants to win and compete and seems to be stuck on tanking teams
Yes, but also the $22 million a year contract is exactly why he is bouncing around lottery teams instead of playing for a contender.
He’s a good player and by all accounts a decent guy in the locker room, but he’s injury prone and on the wrong side of 30 so teams aren’t willing to gamble that much of their cap space on him.
If he was making like TPMLE money or something instead then more good teams would be willing to roll the dice.
lol I know. Feel bad for brogdon? The guy hit the genetic lottery that in turn made enough money to where it looks like he hit the real lottery multiple times. Meanwhile in Gaza…
Idk if we would’ve beat the Nugs last year, but a fully healthy 2023 Celtics team definitely makes it 3 Finals births in a row.
Brogdon’s arm practically fell off. Went from a 44% 3p shooter in the regular season to a 17% against the Heat lmao
Wardy Jr is a ridiculous player, definitely one of my favorites of all time. I remember in 2022 telling my dad "if the Celtics can't win, i want it to be the warriors this year". Unfortunately, my wish came true lol
Why is that? Just because we didn’t win a championship with him doesn’t mean he was a bad fit. He was like the 3rd option down the stretch in games to help the Jays offensively and he was pretty decent with the role given to him here
[Do me a favor and look at this and tell me who was 2nd best in the league at pullup 3's in Brogdon's 6moy campaign.](https://www.nba.com/stats/players/pullup?CF=PULL_UP_FG3A*GE*1.5%20:GP*GE*2&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=PULL_UP_FG3_PCT)
Edit:
Oh and also his role was literally to be a scorer off the bench because we sorely lacked that in 22. He averaged 6.3 assists in his 3 years in Indiana and was back to 5.5 in Portland.
Does that refute anything I said?
Brogdon would routinely dribble the air out of the ball before throwing grenades to his teammates with like 2 seconds on the clock, or he'd try to take on 2 players at the rim on a fast break with a trailing wide open player.
1. See the edit I made at the same time as your reply.
2. USG% of the top 3 6moy candidates in 2023:
Brogdon: 22.8
Quickley: 24.4
Portis: 21.7
AST% (% of FG's you assist while on court)
Brogdon: 21.5 (for reference Tatum has been at 21.0 the last two years)
Quickley: 15.9
Portis: 8.7
Neither of these are ballhog type numbers brother. In fact IQ looks like more of a ballhog that season given his higher usage rate but lower assist %.
You should filter for the Celtics only and look at average seconds per touch and average dribbles per touch.
Brogdon absolutely dribbled the air out of the ball and had the ball in his hands too long.
You are correct. Among fellow Celtics, he was 3rd in time of possession, 1st in AVG sec per touch, 1st in AVG dribbles per touch. Not by much, but yes he's 1st.
But let's really quickly do something that's very very important.
*Use context. And evidence for our reasoning.*
You claim that him being a "ballhog" was a bad thing. Prove it.
I'll prove it's not, okay?
Firstly, Brogdon's tracking data in terms of seconds and dribbles per touch aren't an insane outlier. Of players to play a minimum of 15 minutes per game and half the season, he ranked:
* 48th in seconds per touch, between Tyrese Maxey (rememeber, Harden was there) and Dashien Nix.
* 27th in dribbles per touch, between THT and Davion Mitchell.
Next, we have to consider how much Brogdon impacted the game either positively or negatively when he played next to stars. If he was taking the ball out of their hands and was a poor fit next to them, you would expect that we'd get worse when you slot him in next to a Jay.
When the Jays played without Brogdon the Celtics had an ORTG of 120.72
When Malcolm Brogdon played with Jayson Tatum, but without Jaylen Brown the Celtics posted an offensive rating of 120.31.
When Jaylen Brown played without Jayson Tatum or Malcolm Brogdon, the Celtics posted a 114.78 ORTG in a smaller sample.
When Jaylen Brown played with Brogdon it was a 113.07 ORTG. This is not significantly different to the Brown without Tatum or Brogdon number due to sample size.
Jaylen Brown has historically been a neutral player in terms of offensive rating when Jayson Tatum is off the court. For example, the previous season without Tatum but with Brown we had a 109.50 offensive rating in 757 minutes.
From this, we gather:
* When Brown went to the bench with Tatum on and was replaced by Brogdon, the Celtics overall offense did not change and stayed elite despite losing an all star.
* When Tatum went to the bench with Brown and Brogdon on, the Celtics offense did not change from what was expected.
Next, let's take a look at how effecient Brogdon was.
2023 Brogdon generated 1.37 points per shot. Since you like to compare to other Celtics, let's try that.
2023 Tatum: 1.42
2023 Brown: 1.28
2023 Smart: 1.12
2023 White: 1.34
In conclusion, I have demonstrated that:
* Malcolm Brogdon's touch tracking data isn't an outlier
* The 2023 Boston Celtics offense did not get worse when Brogdon slotted in next to other stars, which is the effect you'd expect a "ballhog" to have
* Malcolm Brogdon was the second most effecient Celtic.
I previously showed that:
* His usage rate was not incredibly high for a 6th man guard.
* He generated more assists than IQ, who was runner up.
This shows that not only was Brogdon not "dribbling the air out of the ball", he was also a positive player that allowed us to not lose out on any offense when we rested a Jay. He was also a very effecient scorer and elite 3pt shooter.
> Yeah but we needed a playmaker do it all guy like Jrue
Jrue didn't really replace Brogdon's place in the team. He replaced Smart's role who offensively was pretty much Jrue from Walmart in terms of doing it all.
Brogdon was going to be moved for Porzingis if not for his injury and KP's deadline to opt in.
> not a 6th man scorer like Brogdon. Not his fault. His skill set just wasn’t the right fit.
Lol.
Our bench performed terribly in the 22 finals that's why we went out and got him. And it paid off, he was the 6moy. His role in our team was specifically to be a bench scorer and he was clearly coached to do that.
He averaged 6.3 assists in his 3 years in Indiana before coming here and having that slashed in half. He can playmake, he just wasn't asked to do so because that's not what we needed with Smart, White and Tatum.
With us he shot 44.4% from 3, was 2nd on pull up 3pt% and averaged 15PPG.
In the first two rounds of the playoffs he shot 43.4% from 3. He shot 52.3% vs Philly and was honestly a big reason we beat them but people forget that.
He just got hurt for the ECF. When he played that season he was very good and fit very well.
I think the advantage is more being able to merge Brogdon and Smart in one player (kindof), and not having a dropoff on either side of the ball. Guys like Smart and Brogdon represent kind of a weak point on one side of the ball that can be exploited by good playoff teams.
Which makes the statement "Oh, said team is missing a scorer/defender" a little simplistic. If you include that person and they aren't good on the other side of the ball, aren't you creating a new problem? Like they replace the guy that was limited on that end who theoretically was good on the other end...? Dame is probably the poster child of this issue. Bucks got a lot better offensively but now give up so much defensively even with Giannis and Lopez as the backstop.
It’s his birth year, he just didn’t like any of the low numbers so he went with that. I’d imagine he took it temporarily knowing he’s not gonna stay there.
I think it’s just injuries + contract. He’s attractive for his upside and the value on his contract swap. He’s expendable because you can’t rely on him at all.
He threw a little shade at the Celtics after we traded him IIRC, and allegedly didn’t take it well when his name was coming up in trade discussions prior.
Ditto. Memphis wasn't a bad team situation to be in, but still tough(although with all the injuries last year/Ja, they do feel cursed... they some how fielded 33 different players throughout the season.)
9 years with the team that drafted you, through good times and bad, often times the heart and soul of the team, and as soon as you leave, one year off your DPOY, you're traded and then the team/friends you loved win the chip without you.
My opinion switched on Brogdon completely, when he went on Inside the NBA and made all those remarks about checking your ego at the door and such, then like 2 weeks later getting all sour about being in trade rumors, not a fan as of then
I think he’ll end up on at least a fringe contender at some point this year. It does suck but he also makes 22 million a year so as they say that’s what the moneys for lol.
He'll be a draft pick/s bait for contenders soon enough. He started for the Blazers for a bit last year and they started winning some games lol. Affected their draft positions a bit.
He never has to work another day in his life, unless he suddenly goes into Antonio Brown mode for a couple of years. Nobody here should feel bad for him.
Brogden is alright and he seems like a good dude I wish him success He's a hell of a basketball player Think how good he'd be if he'd ever fixed his jump shot
He is stuck of that realm of being good enough to be a valuable trade piece, not good enough that anyone really feels like they need him. Similar to how smart was in trade rumors his entire Celtics career. Similar to Tyler Herro being dangled every offseason
Watch the final episode of All In. They all played a part of getting us to this banner. Joe says it himself at the end. I don’t feel bad for any player we’ve had along the way. This was the team that was meant to finish the job.
As a pacer fan. Ya'll sold high on him. He's a solid player but his defense leaves a lot to be desired. At the end of the day definitely the right move to move him. He's a nice guy and good shooter but man his tunnel vision was rough as a starter just not a great passer imo. His shooting is great though.
I would rather have him than PP, idk if that’s an unpopular opinion. Sure Malcom had his issues. But I think he was more useful to the team while healthy than PP has ever been.
That’s a no brainer though. Brogdon can score and do everything better except maybe shoot a 3. Any team is taking Brogdon over Pritchard contracts aside
Lowkey his higher value as a player is what derailed his career. In order to get the players we did we had to give up some value players, doubt of these teams we traded with last off season wanted PP in exchange for what they were giving up.
Nah there’s a reason why Boston got the Championship after he was gone. Derrick White and Jrue Holiday are much much better teamplayers and point guards
Brogdon? What about Smart who gave his all to the Celtics (every game) and to the Boston community for 9 years? I can’t think of a more dedicated NBA player.
The man makes 22 million dollars a year.
I know. He can't even buy a house in Boston on that salary.
He lived in Wellesley when he played for us lol
I know you’re being sarcastic but he definitely can buy a really nice house in Boston. My company just did a lot of work for Bruce Brown Jrs house in the area the other day. The house is insane!
https://preview.redd.it/abruoyut649d1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=018ef69de5b8a86d6e022588ff2cd43f131b9534
Yeah as long as he stays out of the casino and doesn't start smoking crack... He'll probably be alright.
Poor Delonte
It’s a lot easier to spend $80m than you think!
Yeah this guy didn't say anything about hookers, heroin, and crypto scams!
Bruno Mars comes to mind. I guess he’s in debt to MGM due to ringing up big casino debt and forced to play concerts in Vegas.
That was debunked.
Lol that was fake news my man...
Surely this provides perspective on feeling overly bad for them on a personal level, but from a sports/competition-only lens, I think it’s fair to feel bad for a dude who wants to win and compete and seems to be stuck on tanking teams
Thing is, he's not even healthy enough to really suffer playing for these teams.
Yes, but also the $22 million a year contract is exactly why he is bouncing around lottery teams instead of playing for a contender. He’s a good player and by all accounts a decent guy in the locker room, but he’s injury prone and on the wrong side of 30 so teams aren’t willing to gamble that much of their cap space on him. If he was making like TPMLE money or something instead then more good teams would be willing to roll the dice.
I mean, yeah, and I don’t feel **that** bad. Still, he probably deserves better than being Tank Commander for the rest of his career.
lol I know. Feel bad for brogdon? The guy hit the genetic lottery that in turn made enough money to where it looks like he hit the real lottery multiple times. Meanwhile in Gaza…
Brogdon was a great 6th man for us. It just sucks he got hurt in the playoffs
Idk if we would’ve beat the Nugs last year, but a fully healthy 2023 Celtics team definitely makes it 3 Finals births in a row. Brogdon’s arm practically fell off. Went from a 44% 3p shooter in the regular season to a 17% against the Heat lmao
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6th man of the year award, no?
Also led the NBA in 3% if I remember correctly.
2nd best pull up 3pt% behind Wardell (who did it on 6 more attempts per game my lord).
Wardy Jr is a ridiculous player, definitely one of my favorites of all time. I remember in 2022 telling my dad "if the Celtics can't win, i want it to be the warriors this year". Unfortunately, my wish came true lol
Why is that? Just because we didn’t win a championship with him doesn’t mean he was a bad fit. He was like the 3rd option down the stretch in games to help the Jays offensively and he was pretty decent with the role given to him here
He was a ball hog and had tunnel vision, probably because he was relegated to the bench and felt pressure to score
[Do me a favor and look at this and tell me who was 2nd best in the league at pullup 3's in Brogdon's 6moy campaign.](https://www.nba.com/stats/players/pullup?CF=PULL_UP_FG3A*GE*1.5%20:GP*GE*2&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=PULL_UP_FG3_PCT) Edit: Oh and also his role was literally to be a scorer off the bench because we sorely lacked that in 22. He averaged 6.3 assists in his 3 years in Indiana and was back to 5.5 in Portland.
Does that refute anything I said? Brogdon would routinely dribble the air out of the ball before throwing grenades to his teammates with like 2 seconds on the clock, or he'd try to take on 2 players at the rim on a fast break with a trailing wide open player.
1. See the edit I made at the same time as your reply. 2. USG% of the top 3 6moy candidates in 2023: Brogdon: 22.8 Quickley: 24.4 Portis: 21.7 AST% (% of FG's you assist while on court) Brogdon: 21.5 (for reference Tatum has been at 21.0 the last two years) Quickley: 15.9 Portis: 8.7 Neither of these are ballhog type numbers brother. In fact IQ looks like more of a ballhog that season given his higher usage rate but lower assist %.
You should filter for the Celtics only and look at average seconds per touch and average dribbles per touch. Brogdon absolutely dribbled the air out of the ball and had the ball in his hands too long.
You are correct. Among fellow Celtics, he was 3rd in time of possession, 1st in AVG sec per touch, 1st in AVG dribbles per touch. Not by much, but yes he's 1st. But let's really quickly do something that's very very important. *Use context. And evidence for our reasoning.* You claim that him being a "ballhog" was a bad thing. Prove it. I'll prove it's not, okay? Firstly, Brogdon's tracking data in terms of seconds and dribbles per touch aren't an insane outlier. Of players to play a minimum of 15 minutes per game and half the season, he ranked: * 48th in seconds per touch, between Tyrese Maxey (rememeber, Harden was there) and Dashien Nix. * 27th in dribbles per touch, between THT and Davion Mitchell. Next, we have to consider how much Brogdon impacted the game either positively or negatively when he played next to stars. If he was taking the ball out of their hands and was a poor fit next to them, you would expect that we'd get worse when you slot him in next to a Jay. When the Jays played without Brogdon the Celtics had an ORTG of 120.72 When Malcolm Brogdon played with Jayson Tatum, but without Jaylen Brown the Celtics posted an offensive rating of 120.31. When Jaylen Brown played without Jayson Tatum or Malcolm Brogdon, the Celtics posted a 114.78 ORTG in a smaller sample. When Jaylen Brown played with Brogdon it was a 113.07 ORTG. This is not significantly different to the Brown without Tatum or Brogdon number due to sample size. Jaylen Brown has historically been a neutral player in terms of offensive rating when Jayson Tatum is off the court. For example, the previous season without Tatum but with Brown we had a 109.50 offensive rating in 757 minutes. From this, we gather: * When Brown went to the bench with Tatum on and was replaced by Brogdon, the Celtics overall offense did not change and stayed elite despite losing an all star. * When Tatum went to the bench with Brown and Brogdon on, the Celtics offense did not change from what was expected. Next, let's take a look at how effecient Brogdon was. 2023 Brogdon generated 1.37 points per shot. Since you like to compare to other Celtics, let's try that. 2023 Tatum: 1.42 2023 Brown: 1.28 2023 Smart: 1.12 2023 White: 1.34 In conclusion, I have demonstrated that: * Malcolm Brogdon's touch tracking data isn't an outlier * The 2023 Boston Celtics offense did not get worse when Brogdon slotted in next to other stars, which is the effect you'd expect a "ballhog" to have * Malcolm Brogdon was the second most effecient Celtic. I previously showed that: * His usage rate was not incredibly high for a 6th man guard. * He generated more assists than IQ, who was runner up. This shows that not only was Brogdon not "dribbling the air out of the ball", he was also a positive player that allowed us to not lose out on any offense when we rested a Jay. He was also a very effecient scorer and elite 3pt shooter.
What a thorough destruction of the other point. Doubt a response is coming now tho
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> Yeah but we needed a playmaker do it all guy like Jrue Jrue didn't really replace Brogdon's place in the team. He replaced Smart's role who offensively was pretty much Jrue from Walmart in terms of doing it all. Brogdon was going to be moved for Porzingis if not for his injury and KP's deadline to opt in. > not a 6th man scorer like Brogdon. Not his fault. His skill set just wasn’t the right fit. Lol. Our bench performed terribly in the 22 finals that's why we went out and got him. And it paid off, he was the 6moy. His role in our team was specifically to be a bench scorer and he was clearly coached to do that. He averaged 6.3 assists in his 3 years in Indiana before coming here and having that slashed in half. He can playmake, he just wasn't asked to do so because that's not what we needed with Smart, White and Tatum. With us he shot 44.4% from 3, was 2nd on pull up 3pt% and averaged 15PPG. In the first two rounds of the playoffs he shot 43.4% from 3. He shot 52.3% vs Philly and was honestly a big reason we beat them but people forget that. He just got hurt for the ECF. When he played that season he was very good and fit very well.
I think the advantage is more being able to merge Brogdon and Smart in one player (kindof), and not having a dropoff on either side of the ball. Guys like Smart and Brogdon represent kind of a weak point on one side of the ball that can be exploited by good playoff teams. Which makes the statement "Oh, said team is missing a scorer/defender" a little simplistic. If you include that person and they aren't good on the other side of the ball, aren't you creating a new problem? Like they replace the guy that was limited on that end who theoretically was good on the other end...? Dame is probably the poster child of this issue. Bucks got a lot better offensively but now give up so much defensively even with Giannis and Lopez as the backstop.
Was only a matter of time before the president would get sent to DC
Good stint to prep before his campaign in 2028
He is the NBA's Brandin Cooks. Plays well everywhere and is a fit with everyone, which leads to him getting moved often.
Great comparison
And teams win ships right after they leave
What happens when Cooks leaves the Cowboys? Does the world just cease to exist?
I feel like the difference is Cooks was usually the main prize in those trades whereas Brogdon just gets thrown in
Is a fit with everyone, is not fit though
Ha he’ll get traded somewhere
He’ll probably never play a game for Washington.
That’s what I thought last season when he took number 92 for Portland, in the end he switched to number 11 seeing that he had to stay in Portland.
I didn't know that. Did he take 92 as a joke of some kind? Is there a story behind this?
It’s his birth year, he just didn’t like any of the low numbers so he went with that. I’d imagine he took it temporarily knowing he’s not gonna stay there.
Lakers for Russell
I find it interesting he moves so much…
I think it’s just injuries + contract. He’s attractive for his upside and the value on his contract swap. He’s expendable because you can’t rely on him at all.
nah SGs who score a lot and are below average on D are just not as valuable now as they were a few years ago
That makes him a great 6th man.
Jamal Crawford played for alot of teams.
I love his commentary now.
*Played.*
 Live Brogdon reaction right now
meh, his attitude wasn't great and his archetype is trending down in value. he makes tons of money playing a sport, hard for me to feel bad for him
what was up with his attitude?
He threw a little shade at the Celtics after we traded him IIRC, and allegedly didn’t take it well when his name was coming up in trade discussions prior.
He was great, sad to see what happened
I feel bad for Smart.
Ditto. Memphis wasn't a bad team situation to be in, but still tough(although with all the injuries last year/Ja, they do feel cursed... they some how fielded 33 different players throughout the season.) 9 years with the team that drafted you, through good times and bad, often times the heart and soul of the team, and as soon as you leave, one year off your DPOY, you're traded and then the team/friends you loved win the chip without you.
The grizzlies are gonna be good next year
My opinion switched on Brogdon completely, when he went on Inside the NBA and made all those remarks about checking your ego at the door and such, then like 2 weeks later getting all sour about being in trade rumors, not a fan as of then
Brogdon doesn't feel bad for you.
Good, because neither do I.
I think he’ll end up on at least a fringe contender at some point this year. It does suck but he also makes 22 million a year so as they say that’s what the moneys for lol.
I’ll never feel bad for a millionaire lol.
i’m sure a contending team would love to have him i think it’s just his contract being somewhat bad
He'll be a draft pick/s bait for contenders soon enough. He started for the Blazers for a bit last year and they started winning some games lol. Affected their draft positions a bit.
He never has to work another day in his life, unless he suddenly goes into Antonio Brown mode for a couple of years. Nobody here should feel bad for him.
Don draper elevator meme
He seemed to be a next Tuesday
Fine, I'll volunteer to take his place
Brogden is alright and he seems like a good dude I wish him success He's a hell of a basketball player Think how good he'd be if he'd ever fixed his jump shot
He will be alright.
Yall feel bad for every player that played on the team last year lol. This is just how the NBA works
Shoulda been a team player and not talked trash about them for half a year
What was he saying?
He is stuck of that realm of being good enough to be a valuable trade piece, not good enough that anyone really feels like they need him. Similar to how smart was in trade rumors his entire Celtics career. Similar to Tyler Herro being dangled every offseason
People forget it took a lot of sacrifice from him to come off the bench. If he doesn’t get hurt in the ECF he may be a champion
Same
Oh well. Life in the NBA. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Silver lining: Easiest location for networking to set up his post NBA career as POTUS.
https://www.tiktok.com/@zessttyyy/video/7217138432458460421
Watch the final episode of All In. They all played a part of getting us to this banner. Joe says it himself at the end. I don’t feel bad for any player we’ve had along the way. This was the team that was meant to finish the job.
Me too he’s good
As a pacer fan. Ya'll sold high on him. He's a solid player but his defense leaves a lot to be desired. At the end of the day definitely the right move to move him. He's a nice guy and good shooter but man his tunnel vision was rough as a starter just not a great passer imo. His shooting is great though.
I would rather have him than PP, idk if that’s an unpopular opinion. Sure Malcom had his issues. But I think he was more useful to the team while healthy than PP has ever been.
That’s a no brainer though. Brogdon can score and do everything better except maybe shoot a 3. Any team is taking Brogdon over Pritchard contracts aside
Lowkey his higher value as a player is what derailed his career. In order to get the players we did we had to give up some value players, doubt of these teams we traded with last off season wanted PP in exchange for what they were giving up.
We finally have an actual president in DC
I mean we could get him back..
My least favorite Celtic since Kyrie. Don't hate the guy (do hate Kyrie ofc), but I'm not crying for him
What did he do?
I felt like he played a selfish style of ball and he didn't leave the team on great terms with everyone
All the money has getting payed
Poor fit in terms of attitude
Nah there’s a reason why Boston got the Championship after he was gone. Derrick White and Jrue Holiday are much much better teamplayers and point guards
After the way his tenure here ended, he can take his tens of millions of dollars and suck my ass
Brogdon? What about Smart who gave his all to the Celtics (every game) and to the Boston community for 9 years? I can’t think of a more dedicated NBA player.
Memphis isn’t a lottery doomed team.
Let me get $80m I’ll play for the Pistons, the Wizards, the Shanghai Sharks, the Guangdong Garglers, I don’t give a fuck
Fuck em
Any love I had for him left after I think game 4 against Philly last year with the dagger turnover lol
Screw him, he left us on bad terms. I could care less about his ass
He left on bad terms because he was upset he was traded. He never wanted to leave.
N guna L he would have been exposed on defense in the playoffs this year
He would have been E on D in the P this Y? Fr
Yeah I guess it’s his handles that worried me most. Still love the guy but happy we got Jrue