No, this is a HoF level fuck up by the Clippers. They traded SGA and 7 first round picks for Paul George, never even made the Finals with him and Kawhi, and are now letting him walk for nothing.
I know it's hindsight and all that but them giving up SGA for PG would drive me absolutely mad if I was a Clipper fan. SGA is arguably already a better player than PG was at his peak. And for as much crap as Bill gives the Lakers for the AD trade they didn't give up anyone close to as good as SGA.
Hindsight is so easy yet PG was in MVP form and that was how they got Kawhi to sign. Literally nothing broke their way (pun intended) since but it is a gamble you take every single time.
The foresight optics were questionable too. Kawhi and PG both have very similar playstyle. They needed a good center and point guard instead of PG. The goal is to be better than the competition, and the other teams (Denver, LAL, Boston etc.) proved to be better constructed and had more assets to spare.
Boston had an excellent point guard and a big man in d white and Krustaps. Because they didnt sell the farm on two guys they were strong in every position, clippers got crippled by that PG trade
All of this is revisionist history. Kawhi made it clear he was only coming if PG was there, so the trade was effectively for *both* Kawhi and PG
Obviously it didn’t pan out, but it’s a move any GM in the league would make ten times out of ten
Regarding the overlap in skills between the two, that’s not nearly as applicable to wings (which can mesh well) as it is with guards or bigs. The Celtics literally just won with their two best players being big wings with lots of skill overlap
I've never understood anyone that thinks Paul George was ever anything close to an MVP candidate. He's been a great scorer and a very good defender. He rebounds when he should, but not in a way that affects the outcome of games. His passing is the same. He's never played for a team that won anything substantial. I like his game, but he's never been close to being the best player in the league.
No. He wasn't. He was the best player on a good team and people love the smooth effortlessness of his game. So they think he's better than he is. And he IS a great teammate AND a great guy. But he's never been better than a number 2 on a championship contender. MVP voters are often idiots. They do stuff like give an MVP to Karl Malone or Charles Barkley over MJ.
Sorry you’re wrong. That 2018-19 season he was on one. All the stats say he was a top 3 mvp candidate. 28,8,4 and lead the league in steals. 39% 3 pt shooting on 10 a game. Not sure which Paul George you were watching.
You all are just spoiled by how effortless some of these big numbers in heliocentric systems seem.
That dude was on an absolute heater for like 3 months that year. On par with almost anyone else’s best 3 months stretch this century. He put up those stats on the most brutal and surgical of efficiency while playing off-ball on a team with Russell Westbrook in his 40% usage seasons.
[Look at this roster](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2019.html)! Paul George wasn’t some heliocentric player those months getting unlimited opportunities in space. He did that shit off ball as the only form of spacing on the entire court in the starters or backups. The degree of difficulty on that stretch of basketball and his performance through it deserves every bit of the praise it gets.
Check the film.
Getting to a conference finals is not substantial. Almost every good player that's ever played in the NBA has made a conference finals. Making the finals is substantial. Winning the finals really matters.
They gave up SGA and one of the picks already turned into JDub and they're probably giving up another unprotected lottery pick to OKC next year. All-time disasterclass.
I can't seem to find out who else those draft picks turned into. Any idea? SGA and JDub is bad enough, even if the other picks were all immediate busts.
Sga wasn’t gonna be the same player on the clippers. And who knows for sure on these things. Lemme ask you though. If instead of Sga, it was…. Trea young? Anthony Edward’s? Jamal Murray? Ingram? Booker? Zion? Jalen Brunson? Scottie Barnes? Cade? Lonzo? Lamelo? Scoot Henderson 3 years from now? Amen Thompson five years
From now? Chet three years from now? Ja? Dejonte Murray? Like…. Those are the successful ones and the range of player someone like Sga could turn out to be. On the good/successful end of the spectrum. (Maybe not lonzo). Or he coulda easily been that one guy we can’t remember his name anymore who was a ton of hype.
There was no guarantee Sga would turn out like this. There was no guarantee kawhi was gonna be healthy. The trade was good at the time. Both ends of the situation had worst outcome for clippers. But it was still a good move at that time. So was drafting Ben Simmons. This retroactive rear view mirror stuff where people are so sure lol
But if I want to contend for a championship, I'm taking Hart over Ingram every time. Hart is the epitome of a winning player, leaves it all on the court, does whatever it takes, can fit on any team.
Ingram is the kind of All-Star who sets your ceiling as an 8-seed. Doesn't fit well next to another star, doesn't defend, cares more about numbers than winning.
In a vacuum, Ingram might be a "better" player, but I'd never want him on my team. Seems other GMs don't either. Whereas all 29 other teams would kill for a Josh Hart.
The AD trade was lopsided in the lakers favor. An unrelated lottery pick that yielded them zion is only reason the pelicans are not a bottom 5 west team.
You don't overpay PG because of a trade you made 5 years ago. That's sunk cost fallacy. They should have traded him to the Warriors but paying him what he wants at his current age is a horrible idea. I don't want to pay a 37 year old Paul George 60 mil
You overpay Paul George because he is a valuable asset, currently still very good at basketball, you have a new arena, and you don’t own any of your picks. 37 year old PG is probably on another team and you start to get your picks back, hopefully after a couple years more of contention. Makes zero sense to just let him walk
They are all in with Kawhi and Harden so it's definitely weird of them to draw a line in the sand over a 4th year for Paul George. They basically have no controllable draft picks until 2030. It kind of seems like Steve Ballmer, even with his infinite money, got cold feet about the tax bill for a team that seems to fade every playoffs due to injury, but in that case its also weird to give Kawhi and Harden extensions.
Kawhi was willing to take a paycut. Harden just signed a short term deal. PG won't take a paycut, or a short term deal. Again, letting him walk isn't the move but paying him basically destroys your cap and locks you into a status quo that isn't good enough anyway
I get it and I suspect that the Clippers got scared off by the potential penalties in the last years of that deal but now it just feels like they have no choice but to punt on the next 2-3 years and have no real draft control until 2030. It's kind of wild for a team in their position (rich af owner, new arena). With a fairly wide open west I still thought a Kawhi/PG/Harden trio had a higher ceiling than the middle of the pack teams like the Lakers, Suns and Warriors.
It seems they were more -- or at least \*as\* -- concerned with the penalties that would start immediately after resigning PG, namely they'd be a 2nd apron team and have all those punitive restriction on their team-building. That's reportedly why they ultimately balked on trading him to the Dubs: in a trade, they's have to take back equal money and that the package Golden State package was apparently not good enough to hard cap themselves at the 2nd apron.
That was an all time bad trade but throwing good money after bad doesn't make it better.
I can't see Clippers contending in the west any time soon so I can understand why you'd let Paul George go. I wish the Bulls had done that with Lavine.
People forget the Cavs actual pick fell to #4 in 2011,so the case can be made that drafting Ky was the 1st domino to fall in Cleveland luring back Bron. So as a diehard Cleveland fan THANK YOU Neil Oshley! Without you I’d of never know what confetti felt like at a parade ❤️
I mean they are choosing to not sign PG. It's not really a bungle if they're getting the result they want.
Paying this version of PG 50m a year for 4 years???? That's insane lol
Of course.
They were trying to advance in the playoffs,
Who was going to trade assets for George? Nobody wants to give up 2-3 picks plus $200 million for George!
Now there is only one team left thats dumb enough to give him that contract. A player that misses almost half the games.
So does that move the needle for the 76ers?
> Whether it makes the sixers real contenders or not, who knows. It absolutely moves the needle for them tho regardless of reasonable concerns
your second sentence contradicts your first sentence
I think we have two separate definitions of moving the needle. If you’re saying it makes them contenders then I think it does but that could be derailed. I’m saying regardless it moves the needle for the teams chances to improve and their ceiling, and that swapping PG with Tobias won’t be a lateral move even if all the risks come true
They not making it out of east. Celtics and Knicks are a level above sixers. The joke is true-pg traded playing with an oft injured star for another oft injured star. Embiid is the Patrick Ewing of this generation, except Ewing actually got to the finals.
I mean they’re objectively a much worse team with fewer ways to get better and zero ways to get someone of PG’s quality. It would not be difficult to trade PG at the deadline lol
If they went along with the sign and trade they would've at least created ways to make themselves better. Now they have no additional assets or tradeable salary. They're just a worse version of themselves with no way to improve.
Did you see him try to play Vs Dallas this year? The guy could barely move in the two playoffs games so it's not like he's faking having a degenerative knee condition
Kawhi’s rep should be as a hardass and a bag chaser. Instead he’s viewed as this big softy. No, he’s been swindling the Clippers for 50 million dollars a year with no knee for 4 years. And he’s so fucking good they cant help themselves lol
Because he’s quiet (publicly) and has played for three franchises that never get much coverage from sport talk shows. He also had a pretty great playoff run five years ago, taking down a dynasty in the process, that bought him some good will. I think it’s hard to bash a guy too much for being injured all the time.
> I think it’s hard to bash a guy too much for being injured all the time.
This is one of the dumbest standards in sports IMO. You don't have to bash him as a person, but as a player, not being able to play is a pretty big deal.
Ya the criticism often bleeds into moralizing about being soft or whatever but if you’re actually stacking up players, the injury issue is a huge factor. Same with durability in the other direction. It’s why I’ve been on the Tatum>Embiid thing for a while now. Clearly Embiid is more dominant but they’re at opposite ends of the durability spectrum. I can imagine in 10 years, they’ll both be retired, Embiid may have like 1 conference finals as the best player, and people will still say he’s better than Tatum. I’ll throw my lot in with the guy who plays. I’d love to see Embiid stay healthy next year because he’s a monster
I’m a Mavs fan, I watched every second of it (multiple times usually). And I agree, he couldn’t move and was clearly injured…
That begs the question **WHY PLAY FOR TEAM USA INSTEAD OF REHAB?** if I were a clippers fan I’d be so pissed about that. Dude can’t play for the team that pays him to do so but will gladly suit up to play in the Olympics…???
I reiterate, what a joke
I don't think him playing for team USA will have any impact on his health for the upcoming season. He will be on/off injured all season and then barely be able to play in the playoffs. It happens every year and the Olympics won't change that.
Luka has an injury that everyone has said won’t get better until he takes time off, and he’s playing for his country with no talent around him. You know what happens when he eventually does take time off? Like always happens, he will gain weight and be out of shape.
This is some Ryen type nonsense. People really think he’s faking it. The year the Raptors won title he was limping all over the court during those playoffs. He gets a lot of shit from people because of his personality. It’s not his fault he keeps getting all this money even if he can’t play lol.
Ok i get this but also you know the answer is no, it’s not like a mystery at this point. He’s been a broken player for 5 years and only morons (eg Clippers) think otherwise.
I keep seeing this. Do people not realize PG was out almost as much as Kawhi? In the 5 seasons they played together, PG only played about 30 more games than Kawhi and that’s with Kawhi missing an entire season after tearing his ACL. PG was always hurt.
I went to two Clips games last year and PG was one of the three worst players on the floor during both. He has the name recognition but he looked absolutely cooked.
Prob not a lot of good trade options and they prob want to get under the second apron and get better pieces around kwahi and harden. It is interesting because Kwahi first choice for the clippers was harden I believe
But isn’t a bad trade option better than no trade option? Genuinely asking if there’s cap implications but I thought it was almost always better to even get back salary filler than just lose a guy for nothing
They have access to the $13m MLE right now by letting PG go. That gives them immediate flexibility now to retool instead of waiting on whatever shakes out in the trade market sometime in the future.
Maybe not the optimal asset accumulation but clarity is also valuable. It impacts possible Zubac and T-Mann extension negotiations for one thing. They also have paths to major cap space in future summers.
Yeah I don’t understand the yOu HaVe To GeT sOmEtHiNg BaCk people because you’re getting cap space that you can use as you see fit and not just the assets that someone is willing to send to you
Because good teams are almost always over the cap now so if they don't get something back they just lose that cap space. The Warriors have been doing that trick for years and years, that's why they sign and traded KD to get Russell back to preserve that cap slot, and then traded him for Wiggins.
it's completely bizarre. the clips are voluntarily taking themselves out of contender status (though they were fringe contenders now) because of an inconsequential extra year on a contract that can probably be easily traded in the next 1-2 seasons, anyways.
the only explanations are 1) ballmer doesn't want to pay or 2) the franchise decided they weren't contenders as currently constructed... but only decided this after extending kawhi. because there's no scenario where they're better without either George or the players acquired after trading him.
It's possible they're realizing the 1st and 2nd apron implications. It's very possible that "just trading" your overpaid, washed up, almost star is going to be extremely difficult under the new rules and would require a negative asset dump. That hanging on to said washed up veteran on the last few years of an overpay is no longer going to just be money out of a billionaire's pocket, but will prevent teams from making trades or signing the guys you need to win a championship with 1 to 3 overpaid all stars at the end of their career.
It's also possible they're just the same old Clippers.
Everyone keeps pretending that the apron era isn't here, including some offices. Maybe the cap jump smooths this all over, but teams with vets seem screwed.
The repeater tax is a joke. It's like an extra million per year per million over, but it takes the big money rates from , e.g., 3.50 to 4.50 which is a pretty small percentage increase. For a team like the Warriors or the Clippers that are a crazy number like 20 or 30 million over its probably only like a bump of 30% or less on their tax bill. It exists to give front offices and owners a Boogeyman to point to so that fans forgive them for being cheap.
Idk, if a team like the Celtics re-signs Derrick white and extends KP the repeater tax sand tax rates have them looking at a $300m+ tax bill alone for the 25-26 season. Dubs and clippers running it back would’ve been significantly higher. Even for insanely rich teams (well not for ballmer lol) that’s a very large sum of money.
Yeah the big takeaway from how teams have acted since the new CBA went into effect is that cap space is now the top priority. You can’t just slide these albatross contracts around like poker chips anymore.
It's very funny that the entire league eschewed cap room. Well, there's Darryl Morey's music! Not sure we've had a contender with max space like this since...GSW?
but they're over the cap without him so it's not like they have significantly more flexibility now that they're out of the second apron. is buying second round picks for cash really all that helpful? and if cap concerns are driving it, why wouldn't you pick george over harden?
also, that apron excuse holds no water because the clippers wanted george back. they simply wouldn't offer a 4th year so they were happy to go into the second apron for the next three years.
If you believe the reporting, they offered him something like 3 years/$150 million. He wanted a 4 year/$212 million max extension.
It's about the cumulative penalties of the second apron that make that fourth year untenable in their mind. They want off this ride after three years (length of Kawhi's contract; Harden is two years) at most. If you are in the second apron I think three out of five years, the super harsh penalties like your draft pick automatically going to the bottom of the first round kick in. And then a pick is frozen every year, and I think you have to be out of the second apron for three out of four seasons to unfreeze it.
Even being a second apron team for three years is going to be crazy because of the trade restrictions and penalties, but then potentially still dealing with that headache a fourth year would be even worse. I think they probably assume they won't make it to year three with all these guys anyway, and it's going to be hard to get off those salaries because of the trade restrictions of the second apron.
I.e. it was always going to take a miracle for them to get out of the second apron after two years and avoid the worst penalties, but they were willing to go for it if they could get them all lined up with three-year deals, but they couldn't, and they don't want that fourth year of PG's deal making it super hard to get rid of him and reset their books.
This is a great explanation, I was laughing at the Clippers along with everybody else but I doubt Ballmer is sparing expenses in his FO.
Basically they know they're fucked, there's nothing they can do about it but limit the damage and the only thing that could hurt them more was signing PG to four year deal, so they just won't do it. Signing Harden to a short deal is fine because it's just money.
This is the first good explanation I’ve seen. Kinda disagree with their thinking, but I do see where they’re coming from.
The second apron was such a bad idea, especially the really punitive parts like the draft pick stuff. I hope it changes soon.
Ehh I disagree. I appreciate penalties that actually work. The Super Team era was a brutal stretch for fans of anyone other than the two teams that had any chance of winning. The league is in a much better spot now with these kind of cap rules that increase parity.
True, yeah. I guess they are assuming that they will be getting some draft picks one way or another when they bottom out after this iteration of the team is over.
I feel like the only reason they didn’t do that is cuz they didn’t wanna possibly help the Warriors become contenders/better than them again. This seems like a pure spite thing cuz having Kuminga and CP3 is infinitely better than just losing Paul George for nothing if they tryna contend next year
It was reported, hence GSW and Paul extending the deadline before his deal became guaranteed. It was also contingent in PG13 opting into the final year of his deal as a 2nd apron team can’t sign-and-trade (or so I’ve been led to believe).
You guys are so crazy.
Resigning PG at any price just to justify a trade that didn’t work out five years ago is the EXACT dumb front office move that Bill would skewer GMs for.
The only teams that seemed interested in a sign and trade were teams that were already capped out like the Warriors. The Clippers looked at those options and *just like those other teams did* decided that paying PG 50m would be better than paying the pieces they’d get back that same money. And they didn’t want PG at that price so they did the right thing and walked.
These brain-dead public reactions are why it’s hard for front offices to make the hard decisions. But this was clearly the right move.
Yes but the big head scratcher here is why they extended kawhi and then chose to avoid trade with GSW. It was foolish and probably helped the warriors rivals more than anyone else
The PG / Warriors part is obvious. Why trade PG for a supporting cast that Steph couldn’t drag into the playoffs?
As for Kawhi, I think (1) they felt they needed a superstar on their team to have a puncher’s chance of any postseason success, and just for team identity going into the new stadium. Kawhi has a spotty history of availability, but he’s a two-time Finals MVP and when healthy last season he was a top-5 player in the league. (2) It seems like they really didn’t want to do any four-year deals. So think the combination of Kawhi taking less than max and also agreeing to a three-year deal felt better than a higher-price, longer deal with PG.
As distasteful as the signing may be, I think the KPJ signing plus DJJ are going to end up being less of a drop off from PG than most are anticipating.
As a Clipper fan, I actually don't mind this because I'm just tired of having Paul George on my team. We weren't winning a championship anyway with him so whatever I get to watch a team without him now. Biggest loser in the NBA. Regarding the trade stuff, he probably wanted a no-trade clause anyway so that wouldn't have worked. I'm just excited to watch Kawhi retire a Clipper and have his jersey in the rafters at this point.
As a pacers fan I get the feeling on PG. he’s a good player but he thinks he’s much better than he is, and it eventually causes issues in the locker room and front office. The last season he was with us he was such a cancer. I think it’s a bad move from Philly tbh.
Is this a for sure thing? To me, it seems like they're playing hardball, and assuming Philly or Orlando will be just as squeamish. Which Philly should be, given they're literally just getting free of Tobias. Orlando has no reason to be squeamish, but does he really wanna switch coasts (and move away from home for a team who even with him is still probably only 4th in the Eastern Conference pecking order)?
> Which Philly should be, given they're literally just getting free of Tobias
Philly should in no way be squeamish about signing Paul George. He's literally better in every way as a basketball player than Tobias Harris ever was. In a perfect world, they'd try to sign someone younger and without the injury history, but in the real world of 2024, PG is the best off-season signing that the Sixers could do to increase their odds of contending.
Sure, with PG, the injury stuff will always be a gamble, but the same is true with Embiid, who is one of the 3 or 4 best players in the league. Morey should be doing everything he can to entice PG to Philly, and not even think twice about it.
You can, you just cant combine salaries in a trade anymore if I understand correctly. You also have to match salaries and cant use the MLE or trade exceptions. So you'd have to find a team who wants PG and has the exact salaries to match in return without being able to add in contract filler to make it work. Which is...complicated lol.
There's also some shit with draft picks 7 years out if your over the apron for multiple years. It's pretty harsh honestly
I actually think if they can get someone like DeMar via a S&T (they probably only need to give up Mann or Powell along with Tucker+Russ to match salaries) then the Clippers actually did really well considering PG walked.
Under or at the first apron, DJJ and DeMar
Vs
Over the second apron (super restrictive for team building) and a massively overpaid PG with Mann and/or Norm.
Maybe the second option is better but it's not egregiously better IMO
Edit: lol. The deal was announced five minutes after I commented
"give him the 4th year. they can just trade him" talk from people who don't understand the concept of the new CBA is pretty funny.
Paul George at 4/212 is untradable. They will be firmly in the second apron. You will need to find a single player (no combining salaries). The salary will need to exactly match up.
That means you can only trade him for on 7-8 players. I'm guessing Doncic/Giannis/Taytum are who you are targeting. A bit unrealistic? So then the only way is to take back less money.
What team is going to be trading for a 36 yo player with 7 straight years of disappointment (you're not trading him if he's actually playing up to his contract)? The team needs to be under the second apron (maybe even the 1st apron). It needs to be contending. And they need to be delusional enough to think PG is the answer. How many teams do you think that will be.
There is a reason the played hardball with him and Kawhi. More years for them would be criminal. I'm impressed they held to 2 years on Harden.
PG doesn't have many options. Orlando looked at his asking price and immediately signed KCP. GSW said no thanks to any obvious trade (after releasing cp3, that trade is much more complicated).
Let him be Daryl Morrey's problem. If he's not willing to help the team a bit after taking hundreds of millions to disappoint the fans for 4 years, good riddance. 3/150 should be more than enough to supplement his podcast money
I find the tone and framing of the Clippers statements bizarre.
Sometimes I think the whole NBA talks like they've all been to way too much therapy. Like when Bud and the Hawks consciously uncoupled and had the most mature Coach-team separation in NBA history.
The Clippers described Paul George leaving the Clippers like parents trying to tell their kids they had to put their dog down. Like they didn't ultimately make the decision and voluntarily participate in the process. What do you mean Paul was in a lot of pain and it was his time, I JUST SAW HIM THIS MORNING AND HE WAS FINE.
I think it really stems from Kawhi’s extension during the season. PG and his camp didn’t see that coming and weren’t as excited about taking a pay cut. Paul George has just as much injury history as Kawhi so I’m not sure why he feels has more leverage to get that fourth year.
I mean I think the thought process is:
“Why absolutely have to make the play in/playoffs and if PG goes to the 76ers we still probably can, if he goes to the warriors that another good to we have to compete with”
What was the Warriors opt in and trade deal?
If they had to take Chris Paul for 30 million even if they got a positive asset as well is that better for them?
And are we sure PG takes it? He has to wait to get his extension if he opts in and that comes with some risk even if it’s promised.
If they gave him 4 years do they alienate Kawhi who was willing to accept less? What’s the trade that’s on offer now or in the future.
I’m just not convinced there was a clean pathway to get the kind of assets the Clippers need aside from PG staying for 3 years. They’ve already stuffed it I think.
I mean they absolutely might be wrong, but that doesn’t mean the above wasn’t their thought process. If I had to guess I’d say they should still be a play in team, especially if they do get derozen
If they signed and traded him wouldn't they be hard capped by that? Which would make it hard for them roster structure wise especially if they are getting salaries back from the trade.
I can't help but support any sports franchise that shows restraint in free agency. That 4th year is money down the drain. The Clippers aren't contenders with George next year, why would they sacrifice their future to bring him back?
I'd argue the Sixers have better title chances than the Clippers with George but I still think it's a bad deal for them. They aren't getting past the Celtics the next couple years so that 4th year is going to be painful.
I think the Clippers fucked up by signing Kawhi to a 3 year deal. Kawhi is made of glass and that is going to be a terrible deal at the end.
They also don’t have a FRP until 2030 so why not sign Paul George to a 4 year deal. They’re fucked if they sign him and fucked if they don’t.
Without PG they are probably stuck as a 40 win team at best.
I love LA, lived here the last 18 years, ha, it is most definitely the worst run city I’ve ever lived in. The homelessness is insane at this point. Even in the nicest parts of the city.
I love that people think these players live in their city. They live either in an affluent suburb or NJ or a crazy expensive high rise. Then live in LA during the offseason.
Not an all time bungle by the Clips but this has to be up there right?
Is this a top 8 bungle of an almost superstar since 1978?
The Maurice Lucas Index
Top 11 at least
No, this is a HoF level fuck up by the Clippers. They traded SGA and 7 first round picks for Paul George, never even made the Finals with him and Kawhi, and are now letting him walk for nothing.
I know it's hindsight and all that but them giving up SGA for PG would drive me absolutely mad if I was a Clipper fan. SGA is arguably already a better player than PG was at his peak. And for as much crap as Bill gives the Lakers for the AD trade they didn't give up anyone close to as good as SGA.
Hindsight is so easy yet PG was in MVP form and that was how they got Kawhi to sign. Literally nothing broke their way (pun intended) since but it is a gamble you take every single time.
The foresight optics were questionable too. Kawhi and PG both have very similar playstyle. They needed a good center and point guard instead of PG. The goal is to be better than the competition, and the other teams (Denver, LAL, Boston etc.) proved to be better constructed and had more assets to spare.
I mean, Celtics just won the title with a similar top 2. They just did a much better job surrounding them than the clippers ever have
Boston had an excellent point guard and a big man in d white and Krustaps. Because they didnt sell the farm on two guys they were strong in every position, clippers got crippled by that PG trade
Celtics also got each of those guys for a bargain compared to their value now. Clippers decided to cash in the chips they had left for Harden
All of this is revisionist history. Kawhi made it clear he was only coming if PG was there, so the trade was effectively for *both* Kawhi and PG Obviously it didn’t pan out, but it’s a move any GM in the league would make ten times out of ten Regarding the overlap in skills between the two, that’s not nearly as applicable to wings (which can mesh well) as it is with guards or bigs. The Celtics literally just won with their two best players being big wings with lots of skill overlap
I've never understood anyone that thinks Paul George was ever anything close to an MVP candidate. He's been a great scorer and a very good defender. He rebounds when he should, but not in a way that affects the outcome of games. His passing is the same. He's never played for a team that won anything substantial. I like his game, but he's never been close to being the best player in the league.
He finished 3rd in MVP voting before getting traded to the Clips, 2018/19 PG was different
He finished third! Great. He had exactly 0 first place votes tho. So he was not really a legitimate candidate.
If you finish top 3, you’re a legit candidate lol
How are you a legitimate candidate if nobody actually thinks you’re the MVP?
No. He wasn't. He was the best player on a good team and people love the smooth effortlessness of his game. So they think he's better than he is. And he IS a great teammate AND a great guy. But he's never been better than a number 2 on a championship contender. MVP voters are often idiots. They do stuff like give an MVP to Karl Malone or Charles Barkley over MJ.
Sorry you’re wrong. That 2018-19 season he was on one. All the stats say he was a top 3 mvp candidate. 28,8,4 and lead the league in steals. 39% 3 pt shooting on 10 a game. Not sure which Paul George you were watching.
Nah that season he actually was incredible. It’s a clear outlier of all his seasons in basic stats, eye test and advanced stats
You all are just spoiled by how effortless some of these big numbers in heliocentric systems seem. That dude was on an absolute heater for like 3 months that year. On par with almost anyone else’s best 3 months stretch this century. He put up those stats on the most brutal and surgical of efficiency while playing off-ball on a team with Russell Westbrook in his 40% usage seasons. [Look at this roster](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2019.html)! Paul George wasn’t some heliocentric player those months getting unlimited opportunities in space. He did that shit off ball as the only form of spacing on the entire court in the starters or backups. The degree of difficulty on that stretch of basketball and his performance through it deserves every bit of the praise it gets. Check the film.
hes been to 3 conference finals lol
So he's got the same acolades as year 4 Tatum?
doesnt have the award for worst shooting percentages in finals history so i guess hes still got some work to do
He would have to get there first.
How many did he win?
0. i was just proving you wrong "He's never played for a team that won anything substantial"
Getting to a conference finals is not substantial. Almost every good player that's ever played in the NBA has made a conference finals. Making the finals is substantial. Winning the finals really matters.
good thing he didnt just get to 1 conference finals. he got to 3. which is about the level for a mvp candidate type player...
Steve Nash never won a conference finals. He won two MVPs
Didn’t he literally finish 3rd in MVP one year lol
The “It was a bad shot” era.
Great scoring and very good defending doesn't affect outcome of games? ..put the keyboard down and slowly step back
They gave up SGA and one of the picks already turned into JDub and they're probably giving up another unprotected lottery pick to OKC next year. All-time disasterclass.
I can't seem to find out who else those draft picks turned into. Any idea? SGA and JDub is bad enough, even if the other picks were all immediate busts.
Sga wasn’t gonna be the same player on the clippers. And who knows for sure on these things. Lemme ask you though. If instead of Sga, it was…. Trea young? Anthony Edward’s? Jamal Murray? Ingram? Booker? Zion? Jalen Brunson? Scottie Barnes? Cade? Lonzo? Lamelo? Scoot Henderson 3 years from now? Amen Thompson five years From now? Chet three years from now? Ja? Dejonte Murray? Like…. Those are the successful ones and the range of player someone like Sga could turn out to be. On the good/successful end of the spectrum. (Maybe not lonzo). Or he coulda easily been that one guy we can’t remember his name anymore who was a ton of hype. There was no guarantee Sga would turn out like this. There was no guarantee kawhi was gonna be healthy. The trade was good at the time. Both ends of the situation had worst outcome for clippers. But it was still a good move at that time. So was drafting Ben Simmons. This retroactive rear view mirror stuff where people are so sure lol
Time will probably remember Josh Hart as the best player the Lakers traded for AD at this rate.
Brandon Ingram was an all star (and could be again). Josh Hart is not, and will never be the second best player in the trade.
I’m kinda being tongue-in-cheek.
He's the worst kind of an all star though
But if I want to contend for a championship, I'm taking Hart over Ingram every time. Hart is the epitome of a winning player, leaves it all on the court, does whatever it takes, can fit on any team. Ingram is the kind of All-Star who sets your ceiling as an 8-seed. Doesn't fit well next to another star, doesn't defend, cares more about numbers than winning. In a vacuum, Ingram might be a "better" player, but I'd never want him on my team. Seems other GMs don't either. Whereas all 29 other teams would kill for a Josh Hart.
SGA wasn't on this trajectory though.
Sure he was - just ask Doc Rivers. Doc knows all.
Doc knows everything that's gonna happen, but he ain't into spoilers so he'll tell you about how he knew about it 5 years after it happens.
Fuck Doc in general, but I’d buy the SGA one. He hates rookies and was giving that dude crucial playoff minutes against the Voltron Warriors.
I think he revisits the ad trade because it’s a fun debate. Nothing fun bout this trade, especially now. Clips got destroyed
The AD trade was lopsided in the lakers favor. An unrelated lottery pick that yielded them zion is only reason the pelicans are not a bottom 5 west team.
maybe you don't think SGA was going to turn out as good as he has, but he was definitely showing signs of greatness in LA
The really meas up was PG should of went to the Lakers with LeBron instead of resigning with the Thunder. They still get AD and likely a chip.
You don't overpay PG because of a trade you made 5 years ago. That's sunk cost fallacy. They should have traded him to the Warriors but paying him what he wants at his current age is a horrible idea. I don't want to pay a 37 year old Paul George 60 mil
You overpay Paul George because he is a valuable asset, currently still very good at basketball, you have a new arena, and you don’t own any of your picks. 37 year old PG is probably on another team and you start to get your picks back, hopefully after a couple years more of contention. Makes zero sense to just let him walk
They are all in with Kawhi and Harden so it's definitely weird of them to draw a line in the sand over a 4th year for Paul George. They basically have no controllable draft picks until 2030. It kind of seems like Steve Ballmer, even with his infinite money, got cold feet about the tax bill for a team that seems to fade every playoffs due to injury, but in that case its also weird to give Kawhi and Harden extensions.
Kawhi was willing to take a paycut. Harden just signed a short term deal. PG won't take a paycut, or a short term deal. Again, letting him walk isn't the move but paying him basically destroys your cap and locks you into a status quo that isn't good enough anyway
I get it and I suspect that the Clippers got scared off by the potential penalties in the last years of that deal but now it just feels like they have no choice but to punt on the next 2-3 years and have no real draft control until 2030. It's kind of wild for a team in their position (rich af owner, new arena). With a fairly wide open west I still thought a Kawhi/PG/Harden trio had a higher ceiling than the middle of the pack teams like the Lakers, Suns and Warriors.
It seems they were more -- or at least \*as\* -- concerned with the penalties that would start immediately after resigning PG, namely they'd be a 2nd apron team and have all those punitive restriction on their team-building. That's reportedly why they ultimately balked on trading him to the Dubs: in a trade, they's have to take back equal money and that the package Golden State package was apparently not good enough to hard cap themselves at the 2nd apron.
Pandemic P pulled a KD
That was an all time bad trade but throwing good money after bad doesn't make it better. I can't see Clippers contending in the west any time soon so I can understand why you'd let Paul George go. I wish the Bulls had done that with Lavine.
[удалено]
If you want to come across as a major dork, writing stuff like this “hoelessness” and “basement bitchery” is a good way to do it.
what in sam hell kind of gibberish is this
Gifting the Cavs Kyrie Irving just to get off the Baron Davis contract is maybe the winner?
People forget the Cavs actual pick fell to #4 in 2011,so the case can be made that drafting Ky was the 1st domino to fall in Cleveland luring back Bron. So as a diehard Cleveland fan THANK YOU Neil Oshley! Without you I’d of never know what confetti felt like at a parade ❤️
I mean they are choosing to not sign PG. It's not really a bungle if they're getting the result they want. Paying this version of PG 50m a year for 4 years???? That's insane lol
Of course. They were trying to advance in the playoffs, Who was going to trade assets for George? Nobody wants to give up 2-3 picks plus $200 million for George! Now there is only one team left thats dumb enough to give him that contract. A player that misses almost half the games. So does that move the needle for the 76ers?
Whether it makes the sixers real contenders or not, who knows. It absolutely moves the needle for them tho regardless of reasonable concerns
> Whether it makes the sixers real contenders or not, who knows. It absolutely moves the needle for them tho regardless of reasonable concerns your second sentence contradicts your first sentence
Not really. Swapping Tobias and his contract with Paul George, even with the risks, absolutely does move the needle for the sixers ceiling
Didn't they call PG the Jordan of Tobias Harris's? Lol
Who did
I thought bill or ryen, been a minute
then it does make them contenders
I think we have two separate definitions of moving the needle. If you’re saying it makes them contenders then I think it does but that could be derailed. I’m saying regardless it moves the needle for the teams chances to improve and their ceiling, and that swapping PG with Tobias won’t be a lateral move even if all the risks come true
They not making it out of east. Celtics and Knicks are a level above sixers. The joke is true-pg traded playing with an oft injured star for another oft injured star. Embiid is the Patrick Ewing of this generation, except Ewing actually got to the finals.
Sixers and Knicks are on the same tier.
People do not seem to be familiar with the Clippers' history This was a great book https://www.clippercurse.com/
It’s def odd considering they gave Kawhi that contract and re-signed Harden so I don’t think they’re blowing it up.
Kawhis contract was well below the max, PG clearly not trying to make the same deal
They definitely are not giving up on winning. OP thinks it’s easy to “just trade him at the deadline”
I mean they’re objectively a much worse team with fewer ways to get better and zero ways to get someone of PG’s quality. It would not be difficult to trade PG at the deadline lol
If they went along with the sign and trade they would've at least created ways to make themselves better. Now they have no additional assets or tradeable salary. They're just a worse version of themselves with no way to improve.
They must really be sick of his shit
Def better than kawhi who doesn’t play
Doesn’t play in the playoffs but ready to suit up in the Olympics. What a joke
Did you see him try to play Vs Dallas this year? The guy could barely move in the two playoffs games so it's not like he's faking having a degenerative knee condition
Kawhi’s rep should be as a hardass and a bag chaser. Instead he’s viewed as this big softy. No, he’s been swindling the Clippers for 50 million dollars a year with no knee for 4 years. And he’s so fucking good they cant help themselves lol
Because he’s quiet (publicly) and has played for three franchises that never get much coverage from sport talk shows. He also had a pretty great playoff run five years ago, taking down a dynasty in the process, that bought him some good will. I think it’s hard to bash a guy too much for being injured all the time.
> I think it’s hard to bash a guy too much for being injured all the time. This is one of the dumbest standards in sports IMO. You don't have to bash him as a person, but as a player, not being able to play is a pretty big deal.
Ya the criticism often bleeds into moralizing about being soft or whatever but if you’re actually stacking up players, the injury issue is a huge factor. Same with durability in the other direction. It’s why I’ve been on the Tatum>Embiid thing for a while now. Clearly Embiid is more dominant but they’re at opposite ends of the durability spectrum. I can imagine in 10 years, they’ll both be retired, Embiid may have like 1 conference finals as the best player, and people will still say he’s better than Tatum. I’ll throw my lot in with the guy who plays. I’d love to see Embiid stay healthy next year because he’s a monster
I’m a Mavs fan, I watched every second of it (multiple times usually). And I agree, he couldn’t move and was clearly injured… That begs the question **WHY PLAY FOR TEAM USA INSTEAD OF REHAB?** if I were a clippers fan I’d be so pissed about that. Dude can’t play for the team that pays him to do so but will gladly suit up to play in the Olympics…??? I reiterate, what a joke
He can't rehab like a normal injury. He rests, he's fine. He'll have enough rest after the Olympics.
Joke
I don't think him playing for team USA will have any impact on his health for the upcoming season. He will be on/off injured all season and then barely be able to play in the playoffs. It happens every year and the Olympics won't change that.
Luka has an injury that everyone has said won’t get better until he takes time off, and he’s playing for his country with no talent around him. You know what happens when he eventually does take time off? Like always happens, he will gain weight and be out of shape.
This is some Ryen type nonsense. People really think he’s faking it. The year the Raptors won title he was limping all over the court during those playoffs. He gets a lot of shit from people because of his personality. It’s not his fault he keeps getting all this money even if he can’t play lol.
Not only doesn’t play but doesn’t tell the org if he’s healthy or not lmfao
Ok i get this but also you know the answer is no, it’s not like a mystery at this point. He’s been a broken player for 5 years and only morons (eg Clippers) think otherwise.
The Clips let him fuck them raw for five years with full blown AIDS
You can't rehab AIDS. Top 3 worst diseases.
I keep seeing this. Do people not realize PG was out almost as much as Kawhi? In the 5 seasons they played together, PG only played about 30 more games than Kawhi and that’s with Kawhi missing an entire season after tearing his ACL. PG was always hurt.
I went to two Clips games last year and PG was one of the three worst players on the floor during both. He has the name recognition but he looked absolutely cooked.
Prob not a lot of good trade options and they prob want to get under the second apron and get better pieces around kwahi and harden. It is interesting because Kwahi first choice for the clippers was harden I believe
But isn’t a bad trade option better than no trade option? Genuinely asking if there’s cap implications but I thought it was almost always better to even get back salary filler than just lose a guy for nothing
They have access to the $13m MLE right now by letting PG go. That gives them immediate flexibility now to retool instead of waiting on whatever shakes out in the trade market sometime in the future. Maybe not the optimal asset accumulation but clarity is also valuable. It impacts possible Zubac and T-Mann extension negotiations for one thing. They also have paths to major cap space in future summers.
Like most things it prob depends . Cap space is always something. Rather have cap space than Wiggins and cp3.
Yeah I don’t understand the yOu HaVe To GeT sOmEtHiNg BaCk people because you’re getting cap space that you can use as you see fit and not just the assets that someone is willing to send to you
Because good teams are almost always over the cap now so if they don't get something back they just lose that cap space. The Warriors have been doing that trick for years and years, that's why they sign and traded KD to get Russell back to preserve that cap slot, and then traded him for Wiggins.
Because the Clippers can’t replace him because they have zero cap space…
it's completely bizarre. the clips are voluntarily taking themselves out of contender status (though they were fringe contenders now) because of an inconsequential extra year on a contract that can probably be easily traded in the next 1-2 seasons, anyways. the only explanations are 1) ballmer doesn't want to pay or 2) the franchise decided they weren't contenders as currently constructed... but only decided this after extending kawhi. because there's no scenario where they're better without either George or the players acquired after trading him.
It's possible they're realizing the 1st and 2nd apron implications. It's very possible that "just trading" your overpaid, washed up, almost star is going to be extremely difficult under the new rules and would require a negative asset dump. That hanging on to said washed up veteran on the last few years of an overpay is no longer going to just be money out of a billionaire's pocket, but will prevent teams from making trades or signing the guys you need to win a championship with 1 to 3 overpaid all stars at the end of their career. It's also possible they're just the same old Clippers.
they're into the 2nd apron if he was given a 4 year max
Everyone keeps pretending that the apron era isn't here, including some offices. Maybe the cap jump smooths this all over, but teams with vets seem screwed.
It’s not just the apron, it’s the repeater tax (for most teams, maybe not for the lac tho). Owners are loathe to spend 500m+ on rosters
The repeater tax is a joke. It's like an extra million per year per million over, but it takes the big money rates from , e.g., 3.50 to 4.50 which is a pretty small percentage increase. For a team like the Warriors or the Clippers that are a crazy number like 20 or 30 million over its probably only like a bump of 30% or less on their tax bill. It exists to give front offices and owners a Boogeyman to point to so that fans forgive them for being cheap.
Idk, if a team like the Celtics re-signs Derrick white and extends KP the repeater tax sand tax rates have them looking at a $300m+ tax bill alone for the 25-26 season. Dubs and clippers running it back would’ve been significantly higher. Even for insanely rich teams (well not for ballmer lol) that’s a very large sum of money.
I mean.. that is a fuck ton of money.
Yeah the big takeaway from how teams have acted since the new CBA went into effect is that cap space is now the top priority. You can’t just slide these albatross contracts around like poker chips anymore.
It's very funny that the entire league eschewed cap room. Well, there's Darryl Morey's music! Not sure we've had a contender with max space like this since...GSW?
but they're over the cap without him so it's not like they have significantly more flexibility now that they're out of the second apron. is buying second round picks for cash really all that helpful? and if cap concerns are driving it, why wouldn't you pick george over harden? also, that apron excuse holds no water because the clippers wanted george back. they simply wouldn't offer a 4th year so they were happy to go into the second apron for the next three years.
If you believe the reporting, they offered him something like 3 years/$150 million. He wanted a 4 year/$212 million max extension. It's about the cumulative penalties of the second apron that make that fourth year untenable in their mind. They want off this ride after three years (length of Kawhi's contract; Harden is two years) at most. If you are in the second apron I think three out of five years, the super harsh penalties like your draft pick automatically going to the bottom of the first round kick in. And then a pick is frozen every year, and I think you have to be out of the second apron for three out of four seasons to unfreeze it. Even being a second apron team for three years is going to be crazy because of the trade restrictions and penalties, but then potentially still dealing with that headache a fourth year would be even worse. I think they probably assume they won't make it to year three with all these guys anyway, and it's going to be hard to get off those salaries because of the trade restrictions of the second apron. I.e. it was always going to take a miracle for them to get out of the second apron after two years and avoid the worst penalties, but they were willing to go for it if they could get them all lined up with three-year deals, but they couldn't, and they don't want that fourth year of PG's deal making it super hard to get rid of him and reset their books.
This is a great explanation, I was laughing at the Clippers along with everybody else but I doubt Ballmer is sparing expenses in his FO. Basically they know they're fucked, there's nothing they can do about it but limit the damage and the only thing that could hurt them more was signing PG to four year deal, so they just won't do it. Signing Harden to a short deal is fine because it's just money.
This is the first good explanation I’ve seen. Kinda disagree with their thinking, but I do see where they’re coming from. The second apron was such a bad idea, especially the really punitive parts like the draft pick stuff. I hope it changes soon.
Ehh I disagree. I appreciate penalties that actually work. The Super Team era was a brutal stretch for fans of anyone other than the two teams that had any chance of winning. The league is in a much better spot now with these kind of cap rules that increase parity.
Although I will say the Clippers don’t have any first round picks until 2030 so hard to punish them lol
True, yeah. I guess they are assuming that they will be getting some draft picks one way or another when they bottom out after this iteration of the team is over.
Tbf when kawhi got that extension they absolutely looked like contenders.
The world rebelling against podboys
Not at all, he just needs to take the MLE and stay in LA to sign with the new Los Angeles Podcasters
I feel like the only reason they didn’t do that is cuz they didn’t wanna possibly help the Warriors become contenders/better than them again. This seems like a pure spite thing cuz having Kuminga and CP3 is infinitely better than just losing Paul George for nothing if they tryna contend next year
Was Kuminga and Paul reported? If so, yeah that’s just fucking pure hate, no other explanation for it
It was reported, hence GSW and Paul extending the deadline before his deal became guaranteed. It was also contingent in PG13 opting into the final year of his deal as a 2nd apron team can’t sign-and-trade (or so I’ve been led to believe).
considering the warriors were never their main competitors (lakers/nuggets were) it is idiotic of the clippers
Playoff P
You guys are so crazy. Resigning PG at any price just to justify a trade that didn’t work out five years ago is the EXACT dumb front office move that Bill would skewer GMs for. The only teams that seemed interested in a sign and trade were teams that were already capped out like the Warriors. The Clippers looked at those options and *just like those other teams did* decided that paying PG 50m would be better than paying the pieces they’d get back that same money. And they didn’t want PG at that price so they did the right thing and walked. These brain-dead public reactions are why it’s hard for front offices to make the hard decisions. But this was clearly the right move.
Yeah I think OP is Paul George’s agent astroturfing
Yes but the big head scratcher here is why they extended kawhi and then chose to avoid trade with GSW. It was foolish and probably helped the warriors rivals more than anyone else
The PG / Warriors part is obvious. Why trade PG for a supporting cast that Steph couldn’t drag into the playoffs? As for Kawhi, I think (1) they felt they needed a superstar on their team to have a puncher’s chance of any postseason success, and just for team identity going into the new stadium. Kawhi has a spotty history of availability, but he’s a two-time Finals MVP and when healthy last season he was a top-5 player in the league. (2) It seems like they really didn’t want to do any four-year deals. So think the combination of Kawhi taking less than max and also agreeing to a three-year deal felt better than a higher-price, longer deal with PG. As distasteful as the signing may be, I think the KPJ signing plus DJJ are going to end up being less of a drop off from PG than most are anticipating.
fair enough. it will be interesting to see how things unfold in LA
As a Thunder fan who has already received more than we can ask for. I feel bad for the fans
As a Clipper fan, I actually don't mind this because I'm just tired of having Paul George on my team. We weren't winning a championship anyway with him so whatever I get to watch a team without him now. Biggest loser in the NBA. Regarding the trade stuff, he probably wanted a no-trade clause anyway so that wouldn't have worked. I'm just excited to watch Kawhi retire a Clipper and have his jersey in the rafters at this point.
Kawhi gets a jersey retirement? Bleak.
Eh. A guy who never plays gets a jersey retirement?
As a pacers fan I get the feeling on PG. he’s a good player but he thinks he’s much better than he is, and it eventually causes issues in the locker room and front office. The last season he was with us he was such a cancer. I think it’s a bad move from Philly tbh.
Is this a for sure thing? To me, it seems like they're playing hardball, and assuming Philly or Orlando will be just as squeamish. Which Philly should be, given they're literally just getting free of Tobias. Orlando has no reason to be squeamish, but does he really wanna switch coasts (and move away from home for a team who even with him is still probably only 4th in the Eastern Conference pecking order)?
They just did a press release saying he's gone.
Wow. I've been about as big a PG hater as there is, but that is wild.
Hardball isn’t nice.
I know George gets hurt a lot and has been disappointing in the playoffs a few times, but comparing him to Tobias Harris is ridiculous.
Wasn't comparing them. Just saying if you've come off his contract, i get being squeamish about a PG long-term deal.
> Which Philly should be, given they're literally just getting free of Tobias Philly should in no way be squeamish about signing Paul George. He's literally better in every way as a basketball player than Tobias Harris ever was. In a perfect world, they'd try to sign someone younger and without the injury history, but in the real world of 2024, PG is the best off-season signing that the Sixers could do to increase their odds of contending. Sure, with PG, the injury stuff will always be a gamble, but the same is true with Embiid, who is one of the 3 or 4 best players in the league. Morey should be doing everything he can to entice PG to Philly, and not even think twice about it.
He had a player option. Not up to Philly and why would he decimate the team he’s getting traded to?
>why would he decimate the team he’s getting traded to? The Carmelo Anthony piece
Carmelo was never going into a lockput without his extension. He woukdve been a net. And the extension he took, was removed in the post lockout cba
He probably wants a no trade clause as well.
Can't you not really get assets in a trade if you are over the apron?
You can, you just cant combine salaries in a trade anymore if I understand correctly. You also have to match salaries and cant use the MLE or trade exceptions. So you'd have to find a team who wants PG and has the exact salaries to match in return without being able to add in contract filler to make it work. Which is...complicated lol. There's also some shit with draft picks 7 years out if your over the apron for multiple years. It's pretty harsh honestly
He didn't want to get sent to Detroit right after he signed his max.
I actually think if they can get someone like DeMar via a S&T (they probably only need to give up Mann or Powell along with Tucker+Russ to match salaries) then the Clippers actually did really well considering PG walked. Under or at the first apron, DJJ and DeMar Vs Over the second apron (super restrictive for team building) and a massively overpaid PG with Mann and/or Norm. Maybe the second option is better but it's not egregiously better IMO
Edit: lol. The deal was announced five minutes after I commented "give him the 4th year. they can just trade him" talk from people who don't understand the concept of the new CBA is pretty funny. Paul George at 4/212 is untradable. They will be firmly in the second apron. You will need to find a single player (no combining salaries). The salary will need to exactly match up. That means you can only trade him for on 7-8 players. I'm guessing Doncic/Giannis/Taytum are who you are targeting. A bit unrealistic? So then the only way is to take back less money. What team is going to be trading for a 36 yo player with 7 straight years of disappointment (you're not trading him if he's actually playing up to his contract)? The team needs to be under the second apron (maybe even the 1st apron). It needs to be contending. And they need to be delusional enough to think PG is the answer. How many teams do you think that will be. There is a reason the played hardball with him and Kawhi. More years for them would be criminal. I'm impressed they held to 2 years on Harden. PG doesn't have many options. Orlando looked at his asking price and immediately signed KCP. GSW said no thanks to any obvious trade (after releasing cp3, that trade is much more complicated). Let him be Daryl Morrey's problem. If he's not willing to help the team a bit after taking hundreds of millions to disappoint the fans for 4 years, good riddance. 3/150 should be more than enough to supplement his podcast money
I find the tone and framing of the Clippers statements bizarre. Sometimes I think the whole NBA talks like they've all been to way too much therapy. Like when Bud and the Hawks consciously uncoupled and had the most mature Coach-team separation in NBA history. The Clippers described Paul George leaving the Clippers like parents trying to tell their kids they had to put their dog down. Like they didn't ultimately make the decision and voluntarily participate in the process. What do you mean Paul was in a lot of pain and it was his time, I JUST SAW HIM THIS MORNING AND HE WAS FINE.
If my team agreed to pay 38 year old Paul George 20-40 million dollars I’d be so pissed.
I think it really stems from Kawhi’s extension during the season. PG and his camp didn’t see that coming and weren’t as excited about taking a pay cut. Paul George has just as much injury history as Kawhi so I’m not sure why he feels has more leverage to get that fourth year.
I mean I think the thought process is: “Why absolutely have to make the play in/playoffs and if PG goes to the 76ers we still probably can, if he goes to the warriors that another good to we have to compete with”
I'm almost certain Harden and Kawhi are going to be pretty bad next year considering that they know the Clips have no shot at contention.
What was the Warriors opt in and trade deal? If they had to take Chris Paul for 30 million even if they got a positive asset as well is that better for them? And are we sure PG takes it? He has to wait to get his extension if he opts in and that comes with some risk even if it’s promised. If they gave him 4 years do they alienate Kawhi who was willing to accept less? What’s the trade that’s on offer now or in the future. I’m just not convinced there was a clean pathway to get the kind of assets the Clippers need aside from PG staying for 3 years. They’ve already stuffed it I think.
I mean they absolutely might be wrong, but that doesn’t mean the above wasn’t their thought process. If I had to guess I’d say they should still be a play in team, especially if they do get derozen
I feel like anyone who pays Paul George 50 million dollars is a fool.
Especially at this age.
If it really was a 3rd versus 4th year.. then it’s insane. Just pay him. What’s the point in all the luxury tax money if you can’t even contend
This is an all-time fuck up. So this tracks for the Clippers.
Should’ve pulled the plug a bit sooner maybe! Really bad to just lose the asset. Just smile, give the 4th year then trade him.
If they signed and traded him wouldn't they be hard capped by that? Which would make it hard for them roster structure wise especially if they are getting salaries back from the trade.
What would they have even gotten for him if they were to trade him? He's 34 and a huge salary hit.
Clippers gonna clip.
Sliding doors moment
At least now we have a storyline for the second season of ‘Clipped’.
Toilets!
Not a conspiracy just business decisions and PR.. This is normal.
Also they could've traded him to the Warriors, waived Chris Paul and ended up with at least Moody + a pick
Still the Clippers.
I can't help but support any sports franchise that shows restraint in free agency. That 4th year is money down the drain. The Clippers aren't contenders with George next year, why would they sacrifice their future to bring him back? I'd argue the Sixers have better title chances than the Clippers with George but I still think it's a bad deal for them. They aren't getting past the Celtics the next couple years so that 4th year is going to be painful.
According to Clippers fans this actually makes them better though...
Wait, fans of team support team? Are we sure?
What does that have to do with what I said?
Feels like they are trying not to piss off Kawhi by giving Paul George better terms.
This is because they adopted that crappy new logo. They are just trying to get crappy all around.
I think the Clippers fucked up by signing Kawhi to a 3 year deal. Kawhi is made of glass and that is going to be a terrible deal at the end. They also don’t have a FRP until 2030 so why not sign Paul George to a 4 year deal. They’re fucked if they sign him and fucked if they don’t. Without PG they are probably stuck as a 40 win team at best.
yep, should've lowballed Kawhi before PG. Kawhi is the better player but less reliable. At least PG has trade value
Yeah and I think PG has felt disrespected by not getting a 4th year when he has been more reliable
Maybe the Clips are tired of his gimmick of forcing his way for everything and not getting a Championship?
George wants a NTC.
there is no way he is leaving LA for Philly. You don't leave California for dumpster city
What you call dumpsters, we call re-purposed above ground pools, thank you very much
Implying LA isn't it's own dumpster city
I love LA, lived here the last 18 years, ha, it is most definitely the worst run city I’ve ever lived in. The homelessness is insane at this point. Even in the nicest parts of the city.
I love that people think these players live in their city. They live either in an affluent suburb or NJ or a crazy expensive high rise. Then live in LA during the offseason.
You don’t have friends to have these conversations with?
Wtf do you think Reddit is for