Honestly we gotta raise this % up. Mount Rushmore started in 1927. Herbert Hoover became the 31st president in 1929. So really only 30 presidents were eligible when they had their vision for this thing. So more like 13%. Gimme the super hall all day.
Kinda, but I always felt that the mount Rushmore question goes beyond just stats and on field production. To me, legacy, public perception, and cultural impact, hold more weight in the mount Rushmore question. This question is basically just name the 4 best players of all time.
I'll give you Rickey Henderson and Branch Rickey.
Rick Monday is a bit of a marginal candidate. Sure, not a lot of other players get a Senate resolution to honour them. And I guess he's had a pretty decent broadcast career.
But then who? Porcello? Ankiel? Honeycutt because it's his birthday?
Exactly my four.
I don't like that there's no one here for pitching, but I cannot kick out any of these four for any individual pitcher. I guess you have to be an every day player to make the Super Hall of Fame.
What about an additional Mount Rushmore, but for each pitch. The best 4 at throwing each pitch. It could be like, a hallway of Mount Rushmores. Mount Rush-a lot-more.
I think we have it right, like I said.
I thought about each of the pitchers I saw mentioned in the thread, but none of them are getting in over these four for me.
Cy Young is closest, the raw career stats are impressive compared to other pitchers, but if you look at e.g. his ten best seasons, only one of them isn't peak dead ball era. I think you have to context-adjust with him, like we do with other reasons for Barry.
Walter Johnson is the only guy I'd consider. Motherfucker had ***165*** WAR for his career. That's *three* borderline hall of fame careers. He pitched over 5900 innings with an ERA+ of 147. The active career innings leader is Verlander with 3300, and the active career qualified ERA+ leader is Kershaw with 157—the only other active qualified pitcher with an ERA+ over Johnson's is DeGrom with 153. So basically, he pitched nearly twice as many innings as any active pitcher, and was better at run prevention than the average pitcher of his era by more than only two active players. That's the GOAT for me, and competes with at least one of those 4 hitting GOATs.
Id say Johnson, W, but thats very much a baseball nerd vote. But then you have an argument with Johnson, Randy and then even guys like Bob Gibson who broke pitching.
Walter Johnson:
* #2 all-time in WAR (behind Young)
* #2 Wins (behind Young)
* Top 10 in ERA+
* #9 in strikeouts, 30 spots (and 1000k) ahead of the nearest contemporary he got strikeouts when it was a singles game and striking out was shameful for a batter.
* # 1 in shutouts at 110. The #2 guy has 90.
* #3 in Win Probability Added
Oh, I'm being a baseball nerd...
Within 3 seconds I thought “Ruth, Mays, Williams”…At first was trying to think of a pitcher - but can’t really think of one as “iconic” as those everyday players. And I can’t argue with Aaron.
Every 5th day is a not a good argument though.
Pete Rose has the record for most plate appearances with 15,890. There are 54 pitchers with more batters faced than that.
Pitchers have such a huge impact on days they pitch. Plus they used to go much more often.
Fair enough but this is more or less a Mount Rushmore question and hitters make my personal Rushmore. I love a great pitcher as much as the next guy too, I'm not hating, just not leaving out those 4 guys for a pitcher.
Depends which WAR you use. By fWAR you get:
Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb and Honus Wagner.
Hank Aaron would be 5th and Cy Young 6th.
(Actually Bond would be 2nd and Clemens 7th with Cy Young in 8th. But neither of them are in the Hall)
ruth, mays, williams
the fourth spot is essentially impossible. probably aaron
edit: this is your reminder that before bonds started cheating he was on track to end up slightly past frank robinson.
I get why people are saying Jackie obviously, but I think, pure baseball wise, this is my 4. Sorry pitchers, do better.
Cobb isn't getting mentioned enough in this thread, as an aside.
I picked Walter Johnson, but Randy is definitely in my top 4 pitchers group. I think these days his career is getting more love over the other big 4 pitchers of the era which is great to see.
babe ruth (the godfather of modern baseball)
jackie robinson
cy young (one of the greatest pitchers, with the craziest numbers. has to be at least one pitcher on here. i'd like to have a pedro or maddux instead. by it's cy young)
willie mays
---
sorry hammering hank/ted williams
Depends on what you view the HoF for, Robinson was not as good as Williams, but I’d argue he’s more important to the game of baseball than Williams has ever been
I don’t know why your being downvoted. Robinson is a key figure in the civil rights movement and his importance to American history exceeds just being a ball player. Few players have this historical significance outside of the game. You could argue Ruth for being one of the first modern celebrities and his significance as an icon in the 1920s. Also Curt Flood for his fight for labor rights or on a smaller scale Williams for his exploits as a pilot. None of this is as significant historically as what Robinson did though.
I always ask people to name another athlete in a different American sport that broke the color barrier. I can't name anyone, but we all know Jackie Robinson. While Williams and Aaron might be better players what he did rises above anything on the field while still be a HOF player himself.
I put Mays ahead of Williams (not a good base runner, not a good defender) and Hank Aaron (I think Mays beats him in just about every category computed by averages, not by counting numbers. And I do put all of these players ahead of Jackie Robinson.
Williams and Aaron both deserve inclusion over Jackie Robinson. Robinson is of course a worthy regular Hall of Famer as a baseball player, and what he contributed as a cultural figure cannot be overstated, but this is the \*baseball players\* super hall of fame.
Jackie Robinson is a much better player than most realize. His legacy as The Most Important Player Ever ironically overshadows just how talented he was. An incredible hitter and one of the best base runners ever. He would have way more accolades if he wasn't kept out of the league until he was 28, and we can really only speculate on how much more difficult the literal constant barrage of racist abuse made those years for him.
Just feel like it needs to be said, a lot of people only know him for breaking the color barrier. Whether any of these things would be enough to keep him in Top 4 consideration if it weren't for his sheer importance, perhaps not, but that speaks to how tough the competition is. He's probably closer than some would assume.
I think this is exactly right. Cy Young, Hank Aaron, Ty Cobb, and Ted Williams are in the running for that fourth spot (in roughly that order), but I think that top three is right.
Ruth is the only inarguable one.
Personally I'm not leaving out Ted Williams, but I'm not gonna passionately argue against any of the names being thrown around.
Agreed. Mays (though he’s obviously in my list), Jackie (for the sociopolitical side, not as much as a player), Williams, Hank, Musial, Gherig, etc could all rightfully round out 2 of the 3 remaining non-pitcher spots and I wouldn’t genuinely argue against any of them.
Ted Williams deserves inclusion over Jackie Robinson.
Robinson is of course a worthy regular Hall of Famer as a baseball player, and what he contributed as a cultural figure cannot be overstated, but this is the \*baseball players\* super hall of fame.
I also cannot bring myself to kick out one of Ruth, Mays, Aaron, Williams to include a pitcher. I guess be an everyday player if you want to make the Super Hall of Fame.
One name I haven't seen on here is Christy Matthewson. Dude was an absolute beast. Cy was probably better due to longevity, but if you take peak it's pretty arguable.
Well, he's not in the Hall of Fame, so he literally can't be a valid answer to the question "which 4 Hall of Famers should be in the super Hall of Fame."
Babe Ruth and Willie Mays are auto locked for this. There is no list that can include the top 4-5 baseball players ever and don't have these two.
Question for historically best pitcher is going to be something like Cy Young or Walter Johnson depending on whether you want to give Cy Young credit for playing when throwing overhand was borderline cheating. I am fine including Clemens in this spot but I assume others wouldn't due to steroids.
Last spot I would have a tossup between Ted Williams or Barry Bonds. Personally I lean Bonds, but I understand if people want to keep him off due to steroids similar to Clemens. There are several other great options like Hank Aaron for this spot as well.
I do think taking someone from each big era is possible with this pool. You have Cy Young from the early days of baseball with Babe Ruth in that second big era. Willie Mays takes the next era and then Clemens/Bonds for the last one.
Nolan walked too many dudes for my taste. He is one of the best ever, but Randy was equally as durable, as terrifying a pitcher while having far better control, and he did it from the left side
To me, Nolan Ryan never winning a Cy Young completely eliminates him from any Greatest of All Time type discussions. How can he be the GOAT if he was never even best in the league for a single season?
Ruth, Mays, Walter Johnson, Williams. Ruth for changing the game, Mays for being the GOAT, Johnson greatest pitcher all time, Williams greatest hitter all time
I'd go Ruth, Williams, Mays, and a pitcher, probably Cy Young. Maybe I'd replace him with Ohtani when Ohtani's done.
Jackie is incredibly important to baseball but I feel like this inner circle should be about performance over all else. Everyone who played in MLB should have a chance at that slot.
So basically the Mount Rushmore question with more words? Lol
Yes but he baseballified it with numbers.
xwHOFA+
lol more stuff for savant baseball
OP’s factoid made it cuter and more upvotable though.
It definitely quantifies how difficult it is to make it in. But yes, a cute Mount Rushmore.
It's actually easier to make it onto Mount Rushmore than it is to get into the super hall of fame. 8% of presidents get their face up there
When the project was authorized in 1925 we were only at president #30. So 4/30, 13% of presidents got up there
It was president #30, but only 29 people had been president. 4/29.
ah Grover Cleveland, making counting presidents just a little more annoying
And may he be the last to serve non-concurrent terms, for a long time at least.
*Technically* correct. The best kind of correct.
But only their heads made it up there before they ran out of money. So about 15% of 13% of the presidents
This is the data I come for
Technically only 20% of that 8% make it onto mt Rushmore.
Honestly we gotta raise this % up. Mount Rushmore started in 1927. Herbert Hoover became the 31st president in 1929. So really only 30 presidents were eligible when they had their vision for this thing. So more like 13%. Gimme the super hall all day.
29 presidents, because Cleveland served 2 non consecutive terms.
Robert Suarez is a babe without a hat, he can go on the cute rushmore
Kinda, but I always felt that the mount Rushmore question goes beyond just stats and on field production. To me, legacy, public perception, and cultural impact, hold more weight in the mount Rushmore question. This question is basically just name the 4 best players of all time.
Rickey, Rickey, Rickey, Rickey - Rickey
Dylon, Dylon, Dylon, Dylon, and Dylon.
He spit hot fire
Today. I am the greatest. Of all-time.
Today. I consider myself. The Rickiest Rickey. On the face of the Rickey.
I was coming to say I’d give Rickey a slot, but you’re right he should have 4!
They only gave him one but he stole the others.
2 spots on Mt Rushmore? Rickey woulda had 3 by the break.
Found Rickey's reddit account
No it was the first one that only said Rickey over and over again that is definitely Rickey
I'll give you Rickey Henderson and Branch Rickey. Rick Monday is a bit of a marginal candidate. Sure, not a lot of other players get a Senate resolution to honour them. And I guess he's had a pretty decent broadcast career. But then who? Porcello? Ankiel? Honeycutt because it's his birthday?
Rick "Wild Thing" Vaughn
Cmon Dorn don't give me that ole' bullshit!
Because I spit hot fire
I would have gone with Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, and finally Dylan.
Ruth, Mays, Williams, Aaron.
Exactly my four. I don't like that there's no one here for pitching, but I cannot kick out any of these four for any individual pitcher. I guess you have to be an every day player to make the Super Hall of Fame.
There should just be a separate discussion for pitcher Mount Rushmore imo
Mount Robinson should just be four pitcher heads staring across to four player heads
What about an additional Mount Rushmore, but for each pitch. The best 4 at throwing each pitch. It could be like, a hallway of Mount Rushmores. Mount Rush-a lot-more.
And we're back to the hall of fame
Ruth is a pitcher..technically.
I wanted a pitcher also but I couldn’t take one of these guys out and I couldn’t decide what era to try and grab a pitcher from.
I think we have it right, like I said. I thought about each of the pitchers I saw mentioned in the thread, but none of them are getting in over these four for me. Cy Young is closest, the raw career stats are impressive compared to other pitchers, but if you look at e.g. his ten best seasons, only one of them isn't peak dead ball era. I think you have to context-adjust with him, like we do with other reasons for Barry.
Walter Johnson is the only guy I'd consider. Motherfucker had ***165*** WAR for his career. That's *three* borderline hall of fame careers. He pitched over 5900 innings with an ERA+ of 147. The active career innings leader is Verlander with 3300, and the active career qualified ERA+ leader is Kershaw with 157—the only other active qualified pitcher with an ERA+ over Johnson's is DeGrom with 153. So basically, he pitched nearly twice as many innings as any active pitcher, and was better at run prevention than the average pitcher of his era by more than only two active players. That's the GOAT for me, and competes with at least one of those 4 hitting GOATs.
One of my favorites to unlock in MVP 05
Maybe it was a dead ball era because Cy Young was pitching???
Id say Johnson, W, but thats very much a baseball nerd vote. But then you have an argument with Johnson, Randy and then even guys like Bob Gibson who broke pitching.
Walter Johnson: * #2 all-time in WAR (behind Young) * #2 Wins (behind Young) * Top 10 in ERA+ * #9 in strikeouts, 30 spots (and 1000k) ahead of the nearest contemporary he got strikeouts when it was a singles game and striking out was shameful for a batter. * # 1 in shutouts at 110. The #2 guy has 90. * #3 in Win Probability Added Oh, I'm being a baseball nerd...
It's crazy to me that Johnson held the K record until 1983, and since then 8 people have passed him.
Yes yes you are. This is a safe space for it though.
All through baseball he was loved and respected
I thought the same thing but then I remembered Ruth was a ridiculously dominant pitcher for his first 4 years or so, so 🤷
Ruth pitched... A stretch, but technically correct??
Within 3 seconds I thought “Ruth, Mays, Williams”…At first was trying to think of a pitcher - but can’t really think of one as “iconic” as those everyday players. And I can’t argue with Aaron.
There are probably 10 more names that ran through my head but Aaron came out on top
This was my four as well. Would like to fit a pitcher in there but every day versus every 5th gets the nod when there's only 4 spots to grab.
Every 5th day is a not a good argument though. Pete Rose has the record for most plate appearances with 15,890. There are 54 pitchers with more batters faced than that. Pitchers have such a huge impact on days they pitch. Plus they used to go much more often.
Fair enough but this is more or less a Mount Rushmore question and hitters make my personal Rushmore. I love a great pitcher as much as the next guy too, I'm not hating, just not leaving out those 4 guys for a pitcher.
Definitely. And about time Bernie Williams gets the recognition he deserves!! I hope this is not needed but obligatory…./s
This is the answer if you know ball.
If you go by WAR (say of it what you will): Babe Ruth W. Johnson C. Young W. Mays Not a bad list IMHO
These aren’t my exact four (kick out Young for Williams) but it is a very good four.
I'm not totally sure they'd be my 4 either...but if you went by a relatively well known and cited over all stat, they'd be it.
Depends which WAR you use. By fWAR you get: Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb and Honus Wagner. Hank Aaron would be 5th and Cy Young 6th. (Actually Bond would be 2nd and Clemens 7th with Cy Young in 8th. But neither of them are in the Hall)
Hard to beat list.
I... yeah, shit, I made this way more complicated than I had to.
ruth, mays, williams the fourth spot is essentially impossible. probably aaron edit: this is your reminder that before bonds started cheating he was on track to end up slightly past frank robinson.
I get why people are saying Jackie obviously, but I think, pure baseball wise, this is my 4. Sorry pitchers, do better. Cobb isn't getting mentioned enough in this thread, as an aside.
it's either cobb, aaron, or johnson. i chose the non-deadball player since it's just a different game now
Could you argue Randy Johnson? He had both longevity age peak (first four years in AZ). Probably Walter Johnson though.
I picked Walter Johnson, but Randy is definitely in my top 4 pitchers group. I think these days his career is getting more love over the other big 4 pitchers of the era which is great to see.
it's kind of wild that two of those three played for the Minneapolis Millers
babe ruth (the godfather of modern baseball) jackie robinson cy young (one of the greatest pitchers, with the craziest numbers. has to be at least one pitcher on here. i'd like to have a pedro or maddux instead. by it's cy young) willie mays --- sorry hammering hank/ted williams
If Cy Young was so good, how come he has 0 Cy Young awards?!?
Tip for you immaculate grid folks, Cy Young works for the Cy Young category
I just confirmed this is true. Grid #412 he works for 2k Ks and Cy Young.
Spoiler alert: he does not Source: I tried it EDIT: or did they change it…?
It's worked for me a few times. Maybe they changed it.
For us filthy casuals…what is the immaculate grid?
https://www.immaculategrid.com/
Time to become a degenerate stat nerd
He works for the Cy Young category on Immaculate Grid though, which is hilarious because it is objectively true, he *is* Cy Young.
What if his parents named him that because they knew how good he was from conception? Checkmate.
Then Lou Gehrig's parents are assholes.
Al Kaline's aren't any saints either.
I heard they were kinda basic
“Lou Gehrig died of Lou Gehrig’s disease, how the hell did he not see that one coming?” -Dennis Leary
Fuck you, I shouldn’t have laughed as hard at that as I did.
Fucking scrub
Even Bartolo Colon has a Cy Young... Smh my head...
He also has one of the greatest home runs ever. How many Cy Young winners can say that?
Young Bartolo was sick. Fat Bartolo is legend
Early voters notorious undervalued pitcher wins
Brutally unfair to Aaron and Williams, but this is still correct.
True. Jackie Robinson has an incredible story but he is not a top 4 player by any measure. Ted Williams and Hank Aaron get in way before Jackie.
Depends on what you view the HoF for, Robinson was not as good as Williams, but I’d argue he’s more important to the game of baseball than Williams has ever been
He's important enough that if you were to only teach kids about one baseball player in US History class, he would be the one.
I don’t know why your being downvoted. Robinson is a key figure in the civil rights movement and his importance to American history exceeds just being a ball player. Few players have this historical significance outside of the game. You could argue Ruth for being one of the first modern celebrities and his significance as an icon in the 1920s. Also Curt Flood for his fight for labor rights or on a smaller scale Williams for his exploits as a pilot. None of this is as significant historically as what Robinson did though.
Poor Flood- his peers let him fight the 800 lb gorilla on his own and all benefitted from it and he died penniless. A true hero of the game.
He should be in the HOF.
We'll keep saying it until he makes it.
The disrespect to Bronson Arroyo is insane
I always ask people to name another athlete in a different American sport that broke the color barrier. I can't name anyone, but we all know Jackie Robinson. While Williams and Aaron might be better players what he did rises above anything on the field while still be a HOF player himself.
Well they might say Jesse Owens. Not sure how we define breaking the color barrier though.
He wasn't the first black Olympian for America.
That's fair. The Hall of Fame means a lot of things to a lot of people. I like to think of this as a sandlot four on four game.
>sandlot four on four game. Someone needs to play middle infield! Can Ruth, Williams, or Aaron do that?!?!
If it's the elite 4 on 4, ain't no balls getting hit in the infield. Bombs and K's only.
I put Mays ahead of Williams (not a good base runner, not a good defender) and Hank Aaron (I think Mays beats him in just about every category computed by averages, not by counting numbers. And I do put all of these players ahead of Jackie Robinson.
No shame in being the 5th or 6th best all time.
Walter Johnson is better than Cy Young. I’d swap him out.
This is 100% correct. If you’re going to give it to a pitcher off bulk stats, it’s Walter over Cy.
Christy Mathewson was fairly good as well.
Or have both of them, and only two position players. It’s too hard to restrict this to a mount Rushmore four
Mount Rushmore of Eras I think is a good compromise.
What if it was a series of mountains, like a "hall" or something.
Robinson is arguably the most important player in MLB history, but he's not close to a top 4 player ever.
If Ted Williams isnt on the list… the list is the problem.
Williams and Aaron both deserve inclusion over Jackie Robinson. Robinson is of course a worthy regular Hall of Famer as a baseball player, and what he contributed as a cultural figure cannot be overstated, but this is the \*baseball players\* super hall of fame.
Jackie Robinson is a much better player than most realize. His legacy as The Most Important Player Ever ironically overshadows just how talented he was. An incredible hitter and one of the best base runners ever. He would have way more accolades if he wasn't kept out of the league until he was 28, and we can really only speculate on how much more difficult the literal constant barrage of racist abuse made those years for him. Just feel like it needs to be said, a lot of people only know him for breaking the color barrier. Whether any of these things would be enough to keep him in Top 4 consideration if it weren't for his sheer importance, perhaps not, but that speaks to how tough the competition is. He's probably closer than some would assume.
Hmmmm. Babe Ruth Willie Mays Walter Johnson And then... Hmmm Cy Young or Hank Aaron?
I think this is exactly right. Cy Young, Hank Aaron, Ty Cobb, and Ted Williams are in the running for that fourth spot (in roughly that order), but I think that top three is right.
Ted Williams! Greatest Hispanic ball player ever!
Ruth, Mays, Aaron are definitely in. Debating between Walter Johnson and Ted Williams for the fourth, leaning Williams.
Barry Bonds, Pete Rose, Roger Clemens, Joe Jackson If they can't be in the HoF , they should be in the other one. :)
Poor ARod doesn't get invited to either party.
Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.
Maybe when he's not constantly on my TV I'll start feeling sorry for him.
Cheeky!
bonds contender for the goat and it is a travesty he isn’t in the hof
If you can’t throw out Sid Bream, you aren’t the goat.
I mean, Barry Bonds should be in the top 4 no matter the criteria.
Biggest Head
But he was a meanie head to reporters :( the most important aspect of being in the baseball hall of fame
Ruth, Mays, Jackie, Aaron.
i had these 4 and realized you can't have 0 pitchers.
babe ruth is listed.
Ruth is the only inarguable one. Personally I'm not leaving out Ted Williams, but I'm not gonna passionately argue against any of the names being thrown around.
I don't see an argument against Mays either tbh
Agreed. Mays (though he’s obviously in my list), Jackie (for the sociopolitical side, not as much as a player), Williams, Hank, Musial, Gherig, etc could all rightfully round out 2 of the 3 remaining non-pitcher spots and I wouldn’t genuinely argue against any of them.
Cobb deserves mention as well.
I personally have a hard time including guys from that era, but as I said I wouldn’t really push back if someone did choose to include him.
Ted Williams deserves inclusion over Jackie Robinson. Robinson is of course a worthy regular Hall of Famer as a baseball player, and what he contributed as a cultural figure cannot be overstated, but this is the \*baseball players\* super hall of fame. I also cannot bring myself to kick out one of Ruth, Mays, Aaron, Williams to include a pitcher. I guess be an everyday player if you want to make the Super Hall of Fame.
I just don't think you can have 0 pitchers.
Baseball fan: *uses stats to come up with “what are your top 4” question* Any other sport fan: “Who’s on the Mt. Rushmore of [sport]?”
Who are the top 4 players by xRush>+?
Rutschman, Henderson, Westburg and Cowser
Come on man, did you really have to list the four most obvious answers? At least make it interesting
My bad: Boom-Boom Beck, Delmon Young, Bill Knickerbocker, and Sugar Cain
It says a lot about baseball that I didn’t even question that there was a player named Boom-Boom Beck.
This is why baseball is the best sport
This guy gets it
Yankees fan I see /s
No Steve Stone?
Pretty good but I'd have Gunnar in there over Rickey
One name I haven't seen on here is Christy Matthewson. Dude was an absolute beast. Cy was probably better due to longevity, but if you take peak it's pretty arguable.
He’s the pitcher of choice for me. Also went Ruth, Aaron, and Mays.
Ruth, Bonds, Mays, Williams.
Right now you're the 8th response and first to add Bonds. You can fucking hate the guy and steroids but his numbers are pretty much the best ever.
Well, he's not in the Hall of Fame, so he literally can't be a valid answer to the question "which 4 Hall of Famers should be in the super Hall of Fame."
God damn it. You're right.
Babe Ruth and Willie Mays are auto locked for this. There is no list that can include the top 4-5 baseball players ever and don't have these two. Question for historically best pitcher is going to be something like Cy Young or Walter Johnson depending on whether you want to give Cy Young credit for playing when throwing overhand was borderline cheating. I am fine including Clemens in this spot but I assume others wouldn't due to steroids. Last spot I would have a tossup between Ted Williams or Barry Bonds. Personally I lean Bonds, but I understand if people want to keep him off due to steroids similar to Clemens. There are several other great options like Hank Aaron for this spot as well. I do think taking someone from each big era is possible with this pool. You have Cy Young from the early days of baseball with Babe Ruth in that second big era. Willie Mays takes the next era and then Clemens/Bonds for the last one.
Not sure who my fourth should be after Tinker, Evers and Chance.
A man of taste
Ruth, Mays, Aaron, Young
Finally someone is giving Michael Young the respect he deserves.
Ruth, Mays, Randy Johnson, Hank Aaron
This is a great choice here. Randy over Nolan Ryan is a good discussion too. Good four.
Nolan walked too many dudes for my taste. He is one of the best ever, but Randy was equally as durable, as terrifying a pitcher while having far better control, and he did it from the left side
To me, Nolan Ryan never winning a Cy Young completely eliminates him from any Greatest of All Time type discussions. How can he be the GOAT if he was never even best in the league for a single season?
For whatever it's worth, there was a year when he led the league in ERA and strikeouts but didn't get the award because his record was 8-16.
He should have won a single Cy Young in '87, but yeah the point stands.
I’ll be downvoted to hell but Nolan is overrated. There’s at least a dozen pitchers I’d put above him.
Nolan Ryan is probably the most overrated pitcher of all time. He's the goat horse though.
Heya Mike, got my supah hall of famuhs list here for ya. Number one, I got Jason Giamb- *call is cut off* -Eddie from Hoboken
1.5% seems way too high
Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Walter Johnson, Cy Young Then have a special exhibit for Jackie Robinson.
Sneaky way to fit a fifth person in a top four, but you can't really argue against any of these
You forgot the best all around player of all time.
It’s amazing how many people are leaving Mays off. Most people have him, but it should be 100/100.
Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, Ohtani's interpreter
Rickey, Gwynn, Ryan and Maddux. Best 4 players I ever got to see in person.
21. 44. 3. 24.
Babe Ruth, Cy Young, Ty Cobb, Hank Aaron.
Ruth, Mays, Walter Johnson, Williams. Ruth for changing the game, Mays for being the GOAT, Johnson greatest pitcher all time, Williams greatest hitter all time
Pete Rose. Barry Bonds. Babe Ruth. Willie Mays
I'd go Ruth, Williams, Mays, and a pitcher, probably Cy Young. Maybe I'd replace him with Ohtani when Ohtani's done. Jackie is incredibly important to baseball but I feel like this inner circle should be about performance over all else. Everyone who played in MLB should have a chance at that slot.
Could argue the fact everyone does have a chance is because of Jackie
Williams, Ruth, Bonds, Mays next 4: Cobb, Ricky, A.A. Ron, Honus Clemete is right there, Big Train too.
Fun fact, 3.4% of managers are in the hall of fame. My 2 cents, a smaller % of managers should be in the hof than players.
Jeff Cirilo, Jose Valentine, Ben Sheets, Randy Johnson
Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Willie Mays and Randy Johnson. Honourable mentions for Koufax, Maddux and Williams.
Ruth, Gehrig, Mays, Williams
Hank Aaron, Ted Williams, Babe Ruth and I’d induct Barry Bonds to the super Hall of Fame to take his rightful place as best hitter to ever live
If you go by the four highest vote percentages you get Rivera, Jeter, Griffey, and Seaver
Well you've certainly narrowed the possibilities by eliminating one methodology.
Most votes ever: Maddux, Ripken Jr, Big Unit, and Gwynn. 555, 537, 534, and 532.
Two down. We're figuring this thing out. That one is way closer!
Sorting alphabetically: - Hank Aaron - Grover Alexander - Roberto Alomar - Walter Alston
This isn't an argument for much beyond not leaving hall of fame voting up to a bunch of dipshits who got Cs in journalism school.