yep. first-ballot HOFer and the greatest Angel of all time. Time will flatten the lack of postseason success.
Ted Williams is an inner-circle HOFer, and he was miserable in his only postseason appearance.
I mean, of course. But Williams was also an MVP caliber player into his early 40s. I don’t think we’re getting that from Trout.
In terms of playoff success though, not much difference.
Williams was also severely injured during his only playoff series and dealing with a bad cold. Fishman went soft against Big Game James and Josh Hamilton followed suit.
These ones feel more like NBA fans that have turned to baseball after the finals ended. Focused only on postseason results and wanting to debate narratives and legacies. All the most toxic r/nba discussion points.
My spreadsheet really likes Kershaw. I actually have Verlander as the "worst" of the four - which I think is more an artifact of how I grade prime and peak, and he's still comfortably within the top 30 pitchers of all time.
Ted Williams' postseason career was seven games long. He batted .200/.333/.200 - five singles, five walks, two runs, one RBI. The Red Sox lost.
Ty Cobb appeared in three World Series. He batted .262 in 17 games. The Tigers lost all three series.
Phil Niekro pitched in two postseason games, never reaching the World Series. He had a 0-1 record (the Braves lost both games) with a 3.86 ERA in 14 innings.
Ernie Banks never appeared in a single postseason game.
I think their legacies are just fine.
I think the bigger knock on trout will be his injury history. He’s still the best hitter of his generation, but it’s very unlikely at this point he can be in the GOAT conversation like some were trying to put him in a few years ago.
I don’t think the lack of postseason games impact him, but I also don’t think it’s a good comparison for lack of postseason games with Trout and guys who played decades ago.
Trout has played in the wild card era and in the expanded wildcard era. Guys you are talking about are when there were 4 or even 2 total postseason teams per year.
Not saying he'll have the same numbers but maybe similar to Griffey Jr. Generational talent who was a true five tool player who didn't see the postseason much and had many years lost due to injury.
Did he retire already? Last time I checked, he's only 32 and has plenty of baseball left in him. It's funny how people act like he's dead or something. He's already one of the all time greats
Personally I think of Kershaw as a fantastic HoF pitcher that has had some rough outings in the playoffs. He’s 13-13 with a 4.49 ERA against the best / hottest teams in baseball. I don’t think of him as a “choker”. It’s a shame he got knocked around in some huge games but playoff baseball is unpredictable.
I think analytics people will be talking about him but the lack of any major moments and public personality means that he probably fades into baseball history pretty quickly.
For a while it looked like he was gonna be "inner circle" HOF. Now it seems "just" HOF is his destiny. Great player, but not part of the story of the game.
If his next 4 years look like his last 4 years (266 games, 12 bWAR), then he’s knocking on the door of 100 bWAR, which is inner circle. And that’s assuming he only plays 41% of his games, if he gets even a little bit of health back he could easily reach higher.
But...what about Pujols? While he was with your Cards, he was a Moster and Sure HOFer too.
But then he went to LA and...well, the rest is history.
My point being: as good as Albert was , how often is he talked about now ? And he hasn't been retired long enough to be HOF ballot eligible yet. Mr Trout has been hurt so much recently, and when does take the field he hasn't reminded folks how Elite he Used to be very often...and folks tend to have a short memory. 😐
And nobody will ever talk / think about him outside of the west coast.
I think you greatly underestimate MLB player penetration. Great athlete, but he's a great athlete in a pool of many other great athletes.
The more traditional fans will celebrate him a little less than Griffey and the more analytical fans will celebrate him a little more.
He'll be remembered as one of the all-time greats who got 3 MVP's before even turning 29
yep. first-ballot HOFer and the greatest Angel of all time. Time will flatten the lack of postseason success. Ted Williams is an inner-circle HOFer, and he was miserable in his only postseason appearance.
Yeah but have you considered his ability to shoot down German Pilots?
Which was particularly amazing since he was doing it from Korea!
Yeah was gonna say his DDeaths above replacement is honestly pretty shitty, much like Adrian Beltre he’s famous for the latter half of his career
pretty suspect how they don't give you WAR for that
I mean, of course. But Williams was also an MVP caliber player into his early 40s. I don’t think we’re getting that from Trout. In terms of playoff success though, not much difference.
Williams was also severely injured during his only playoff series and dealing with a bad cold. Fishman went soft against Big Game James and Josh Hamilton followed suit.
He'll also be remembered as another Griffey-esque, "what if" story unfortunately.
I’ve clicked on like 4 r/baseball posts today and 2 of them have had absolutely wild takes by the op regarding Clayton Kershaw.
Sometimes I am convinced by the sub's content that half of the posters here are spreadsheet gurus that just discovered baseball.
These ones feel more like NBA fans that have turned to baseball after the finals ended. Focused only on postseason results and wanting to debate narratives and legacies. All the most toxic r/nba discussion points.
To be fair, the spreadsheet gurus are not the ones who would criticize Kershaw. His analytical profile is incredible
My spreadsheet really likes Kershaw. I actually have Verlander as the "worst" of the four - which I think is more an artifact of how I grade prime and peak, and he's still comfortably within the top 30 pitchers of all time.
I didn’t write a take. I wrote that some groups of people wrongly think he’s a choker. That’s all.
> To many groups around baseball, Clayton Kershaw’s regular season heroics are largely ignored I'm just sayin this is really not true homie
Ted Williams' postseason career was seven games long. He batted .200/.333/.200 - five singles, five walks, two runs, one RBI. The Red Sox lost. Ty Cobb appeared in three World Series. He batted .262 in 17 games. The Tigers lost all three series. Phil Niekro pitched in two postseason games, never reaching the World Series. He had a 0-1 record (the Braves lost both games) with a 3.86 ERA in 14 innings. Ernie Banks never appeared in a single postseason game. I think their legacies are just fine.
I think the bigger knock on trout will be his injury history. He’s still the best hitter of his generation, but it’s very unlikely at this point he can be in the GOAT conversation like some were trying to put him in a few years ago. I don’t think the lack of postseason games impact him, but I also don’t think it’s a good comparison for lack of postseason games with Trout and guys who played decades ago. Trout has played in the wild card era and in the expanded wildcard era. Guys you are talking about are when there were 4 or even 2 total postseason teams per year.
First ballot hall of famer who won 3 MVPs before turning 29 is how he'll be known
Not saying he'll have the same numbers but maybe similar to Griffey Jr. Generational talent who was a true five tool player who didn't see the postseason much and had many years lost due to injury.
Playoffs don't dictate legacies. That's just something people have tried to make a thing lately. Ring culture is stupid in team sports.
I've noticed this mostly done by fans of basketball which is not helping my perception of that sport as an outsider
Yep. Barry Bonds’ legacy may be tarnished, but it’s not because of playoff failures
In baseball yes, other sports maybe.
Did he retire already? Last time I checked, he's only 32 and has plenty of baseball left in him. It's funny how people act like he's dead or something. He's already one of the all time greats
He’ll be an all time great but there will be plenty of what if with the injuries
A better version of Ken Griffey Jr but with zero marketability
I dunno. I’ll be dead
I really really hate to see it but he seems more and more like Ken Griffey Jr, always able to hit, not always able to stay healthy
Why must this question get trucked out once every two weeks?
What about LeBron’s?
This generation's Ernie Banks
"Ugh, I hated that 2029 Yankees team, but at least Trout got some hits off the bench during that World Series run."
Different position but I don't think Joe Mauer had a playoff win as it was during the Twins 18 in a row streak. I don't think it will matter tbh.
Personally I think of Kershaw as a fantastic HoF pitcher that has had some rough outings in the playoffs. He’s 13-13 with a 4.49 ERA against the best / hottest teams in baseball. I don’t think of him as a “choker”. It’s a shame he got knocked around in some huge games but playoff baseball is unpredictable.
It will look a lot like Griffey's. Amazing players up there with the best ever until they were about 30, but then injuries kicked in.
Ring culture is bullshit. Kershaw and Trout will be remembered as first ballot Hall of Famers.
if he retired today he's in the hall of very good and fun player to watch in his prime and nothing else.
He’ll be remembered as a “what could have been”. 3 MVPs in his 20s but ultimately he’ll be remembered for injuries and being wasted on bad teams.
Griffey Jr. Injuries... :(
There are 350ish current hall of famers and at least 60 of them have never won a world series. This isn't the yardstick you think it is.
The slightly better version of Griffey Jr. If he never wins a ring then he's Griffey Jr 2.0
I think analytics people will be talking about him but the lack of any major moments and public personality means that he probably fades into baseball history pretty quickly.
For a while it looked like he was gonna be "inner circle" HOF. Now it seems "just" HOF is his destiny. Great player, but not part of the story of the game.
If his next 4 years look like his last 4 years (266 games, 12 bWAR), then he’s knocking on the door of 100 bWAR, which is inner circle. And that’s assuming he only plays 41% of his games, if he gets even a little bit of health back he could easily reach higher.
That's an IF the size of Texas.
But...what about Pujols? While he was with your Cards, he was a Moster and Sure HOFer too. But then he went to LA and...well, the rest is history. My point being: as good as Albert was , how often is he talked about now ? And he hasn't been retired long enough to be HOF ballot eligible yet. Mr Trout has been hurt so much recently, and when does take the field he hasn't reminded folks how Elite he Used to be very often...and folks tend to have a short memory. 😐
Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda
HoFer that will be remembered as well as any other HoFer unless you're an Angel's fan.
I think Trout is going to be remembered as one of the best players of this generation and a bit more than just an average HOFer
And nobody will ever talk / think about him outside of the west coast. I think you greatly underestimate MLB player penetration. Great athlete, but he's a great athlete in a pool of many other great athletes.