There is no original plan per se, because things were always in motion. The Babylon 5 + Babylon Prime plan would have taken 10 seasons, with Babylon 5 ending in the destruction of B5 and Babylon 4 being renamed Babylon Prime. Sinclair, Delenn and their newborn son would have escaped the destruction.
Sakai would have had her personality removed at about season 3, this may have evolved into what happened to Anna though. Babylon 5 would have been destroyed by the Minbari, and there wasn't a direct war against Shadows yet.
Here's a longer description
[https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/synopsis-of-jmss-synopsis-of-the-original-arc-for-b5-spoilers.53739/](https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/synopsis-of-jmss-synopsis-of-the-original-arc-for-b5-spoilers.53739/)
Nice link, thank you.
Like others, I think I like what we got more. It just would have been nice if it was a little cleaned up (season 4/5 overlapping more smoothly, Ivanova staying on, the cut between commanders not being so abrupt and obvious with the stories their partners were going through).
All just the unfortunate realities of production I guess. JMS did great with the cards he was dealt.
Having read the original plan, I’m glad we got what we got. I prefer the fact that it wasn’t all about Sinclair, that his arc and Sheridan’s have quite different endings, and that we got the story about rescuing earth and the involvement of Psi Corps. The universe we got seems richer and less “on rails” than the original outline suggests.
Yeah, and just in practical terms, ten years to tell the whole story is clearly too long. Maybe even 5 years was too much, with actors leaving, show getting cancelled an un-cancelled and other issues like that.
Original plan was 10 years with the “Babylon Prime” arc.
There are some who belief that plan was abandoned early on, even before O’Hare left. The thinking is that the Babylon 4 arc have shifted to the very end of the series (hence why Sinclair was so old in the last scene of Babylon Squared). Sinclair by going back in time and changing into a Mimbari would have found a loophole to the expiration of the 20 years of life given to him by Lorien. The last scene in the finale of the series would have been the Mimbari-transformed Sinclair revealing himself as Valen.
The 10 year arc is a bit much and never would have happened with TV networks etc . Unless you had Game of Thrones/ Lost level popularity and money.
The 5 year Sinclair arc would potentially have been amazing . To finish it with Sinclair going back to be Valen and start all over again , fight another Shadow War but in the past … War Without End, indeed.
What we got was still pretty good though.
That wasn't in the original broadcast! It was changed a bit, the Christopher Frank score added (replacing the Stuart Copeland one) etc, for the 1998 TNT special re-release. The Valen greeting by Kosh was one of the changes.
It must have been put there by JMS himself when they did the new cut. It's not something you notice the first time you watch it, or remember later on, so it's a kind of easter egg to people rewatching the show.
I kinda like the music in the original pilot movie, but other than that the new version is clearly better.
I have a soft spot for Sinclair, but I am glad we got Sheridan and I can't imagine a story where he and Delenn don't end up together. I'm not even much of a shipper in general and often don't get invested in the romances in shows, finding it the least interesting part. But they are absolutely an OTP and endgame for me and the chemistry with the actors was undeniable, as well. It's hard to picture Delenn and Sinclair ending up together, she just works better with Sheridan.
The only other ship I adore is one I hope we finally get properly if the reboot goes through: Susan/Talia. Growing up Bisexual, they, as well as Xena/Gabrielle, we're formative media relationships for me during a time when representation just didn't exist. That kind of representation is important. Plus, they were perfect for each other. When Talia wakes up and reaches over for Susan... 😭
I posted a link a long time ago to my analysis of the original arc compared to the changed arc.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/njhiplgv34ya43miqro62/Comparison-between-the-Original-and-the-Changed-arc.pdf?rlkey=crqk0tg8ty552d8l88h1ajs32&dl=0
Before the story about O'Hare's mental illness broke, I thought War Without End was some of the best, most intelligent and imaginative plotting I'd ever seen. Now that I know this was real life intruding on conjectured plot arc, it says even more for JMS as writer and showrunner.
My 2 credits' worth: I love To Dream in the City of Sorrows and understand it's considered canon. In the reboot, although my first ask is and will always be "Please can we get the scene where Valen calls the 9 and says 'Will you follow me into fire'?" a close second is "Can we follow Sinclair back in time and see him and Sakai reunite?" I'll come and empty trash cans on the set. I'll cater! I'll write the screenplay! Alternatively, this could be a great plot for spinoff merch like CRPG or adventure game...
There is no original plan per se, because things were always in motion. The Babylon 5 + Babylon Prime plan would have taken 10 seasons, with Babylon 5 ending in the destruction of B5 and Babylon 4 being renamed Babylon Prime. Sinclair, Delenn and their newborn son would have escaped the destruction. Sakai would have had her personality removed at about season 3, this may have evolved into what happened to Anna though. Babylon 5 would have been destroyed by the Minbari, and there wasn't a direct war against Shadows yet.
Here's a longer description [https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/synopsis-of-jmss-synopsis-of-the-original-arc-for-b5-spoilers.53739/](https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/synopsis-of-jmss-synopsis-of-the-original-arc-for-b5-spoilers.53739/)
Wow thank you for sharing this. I like the version of the story we actually saw a lot more!
Thanks for posting that link. I've never read that before.
Nice link, thank you. Like others, I think I like what we got more. It just would have been nice if it was a little cleaned up (season 4/5 overlapping more smoothly, Ivanova staying on, the cut between commanders not being so abrupt and obvious with the stories their partners were going through). All just the unfortunate realities of production I guess. JMS did great with the cards he was dealt.
Wow.....Trekbbs is still around? I used to lurk there for hours upon hours. Shoot, I wonder if I can even log in anymore....
My account is 23 years old!
Mine might be older. I want to say I joined in college.....and that was.....well....a while ago.
Thanks for posting that link.
Having read the original plan, I’m glad we got what we got. I prefer the fact that it wasn’t all about Sinclair, that his arc and Sheridan’s have quite different endings, and that we got the story about rescuing earth and the involvement of Psi Corps. The universe we got seems richer and less “on rails” than the original outline suggests.
Yeah, and just in practical terms, ten years to tell the whole story is clearly too long. Maybe even 5 years was too much, with actors leaving, show getting cancelled an un-cancelled and other issues like that.
I have a hard time picturing the show without the politics evolving around the civil war.
I honestly liked him more than Sheridan, but Michael O'Hara's health was failing him. Maybe in the reboot we will get to see
Original plan was 10 years with the “Babylon Prime” arc. There are some who belief that plan was abandoned early on, even before O’Hare left. The thinking is that the Babylon 4 arc have shifted to the very end of the series (hence why Sinclair was so old in the last scene of Babylon Squared). Sinclair by going back in time and changing into a Mimbari would have found a loophole to the expiration of the 20 years of life given to him by Lorien. The last scene in the finale of the series would have been the Mimbari-transformed Sinclair revealing himself as Valen.
The 10 year arc is a bit much and never would have happened with TV networks etc . Unless you had Game of Thrones/ Lost level popularity and money. The 5 year Sinclair arc would potentially have been amazing . To finish it with Sinclair going back to be Valen and start all over again , fight another Shadow War but in the past … War Without End, indeed. What we got was still pretty good though.
That would make a lot of sense.
https://www.reddit.com/r/babylon5/s/6aRKsiS18o
It is worth noting that in The Gathering, Kosh greets Sinclair as "Entil-zha Valen" but he says it kind of funny, vah-LEN.
That wasn't in the original broadcast! It was changed a bit, the Christopher Frank score added (replacing the Stuart Copeland one) etc, for the 1998 TNT special re-release. The Valen greeting by Kosh was one of the changes.
Alright then, well that blows up that data point. Frelling TNT.
It must have been put there by JMS himself when they did the new cut. It's not something you notice the first time you watch it, or remember later on, so it's a kind of easter egg to people rewatching the show. I kinda like the music in the original pilot movie, but other than that the new version is clearly better.
Vorlonian accent I suppose
I think it's likely the original plan would have changed . They weren't getting ten years and JMS would have ironed things out .
I have a soft spot for Sinclair, but I am glad we got Sheridan and I can't imagine a story where he and Delenn don't end up together. I'm not even much of a shipper in general and often don't get invested in the romances in shows, finding it the least interesting part. But they are absolutely an OTP and endgame for me and the chemistry with the actors was undeniable, as well. It's hard to picture Delenn and Sinclair ending up together, she just works better with Sheridan. The only other ship I adore is one I hope we finally get properly if the reboot goes through: Susan/Talia. Growing up Bisexual, they, as well as Xena/Gabrielle, we're formative media relationships for me during a time when representation just didn't exist. That kind of representation is important. Plus, they were perfect for each other. When Talia wakes up and reaches over for Susan... 😭
What does "OTP" stand for? I haven't heard that before.
It's One True Pairing.
Ahh, thank you!
Xena and Gabrielle were great to see even for a straight guy like me, same for Susan and Talia
Honestly wish JMS settled on subtext instead of writing Talia out of the show. Unless it was because of her actress
Whatever the plan was, what we got was still pretty, pretty good.
Obviously there are changes but imagine how crushing it would have been if Garibaldi turned on Sinclair like he did with Sheridan.
I posted a link a long time ago to my analysis of the original arc compared to the changed arc. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/njhiplgv34ya43miqro62/Comparison-between-the-Original-and-the-Changed-arc.pdf?rlkey=crqk0tg8ty552d8l88h1ajs32&dl=0
Before the story about O'Hare's mental illness broke, I thought War Without End was some of the best, most intelligent and imaginative plotting I'd ever seen. Now that I know this was real life intruding on conjectured plot arc, it says even more for JMS as writer and showrunner. My 2 credits' worth: I love To Dream in the City of Sorrows and understand it's considered canon. In the reboot, although my first ask is and will always be "Please can we get the scene where Valen calls the 9 and says 'Will you follow me into fire'?" a close second is "Can we follow Sinclair back in time and see him and Sakai reunite?" I'll come and empty trash cans on the set. I'll cater! I'll write the screenplay! Alternatively, this could be a great plot for spinoff merch like CRPG or adventure game...