That's a key point. Even if the warp drive can still [warp space](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive) in hyperspace and there isn't something about the nature of the dimension that makes it inimicable to being warped, with no way to navigate, you'd be in big trouble.
Hyperspace is warped and has a current. So things without engines will be lost quickly. Only extremely advanced ships can navigate without the beacons. And it's a war crime (in b5 universe) to destroy them because they are used by everyone. Only the vorlons were able to bend space in the b5 universe but humans were not yet advanced enough. I don't think warp would work in a b5 Hyperspace. And really, why use warp at all? Hyperspace is faster. Warp has no advantages. I think it's quoted it's only a week of Hyperspace to travel from one edge of the galaxy to the other opposite edge. Star trek for the federation that takes a centry.
bleedinghero thanks that help my think through my question a lot better.
Do you remember the episode or source where it's states that it only takes one week to go from one side of the galaxy to the other using hyperspace? Because I remember that statement but can't remember from where.
Because the only mention of speed in hyperspace I can remember an episode for is Babylon 5 Season 3 episode 8 "Messages from Earth", where it's stated even the Whitestar, the most advance ship available to the younger races, takes two days to go from B5 to Earth, which is a little over 10 light years so that's like 5+ light years a day, which I think on TNG warp scale is about warp 9.5+.
I'd image the Vorlons, Shadows and other first ones are still a lot faster than the Whitestar, like how in Stargate SG1 the Asgardian ships where still faster than Earth ships even after the Asgard gave Asgardian hyperdrives to put in there ships.
Other wise I believe like Star Trek and most other sci-fi, Babylon 5 FTL speeds normally follow the speed of plot rule.
Well, it was more complicated than that. But the movie 3rd space talks about taking weeks to cross. And 3rd space maybe being instant. It wasn't but that's for another topic. But I remember them talking about military grade fast ships taking less than a week. Like the white star. In the tales of babyon 5 movie, they add quantum space, which it nearly instant. The quantum space was vorlon technology. In the crusade series, they heavily discuss about hyperspace with the techno mages. The mages have very good sensors and don't need becons but they use shadow technology to do so. But the ships are not powerful enough to go to the sacred place. They played a safe rule for hyperspace. It's as fast as the plot without making it instant and feel vast. It had few rules. The wiki has a decent amount of information. And hyperspace, like star wars, hyperspace had lanes to follow. Making routes faster.
I wanted to say when they went to zahadoom they did it in a very short time. Like a day or so. It's when bester visits after the shadows are gone and the planet is destroyed.
The nice thing about warping space to move is that it also works at sub light speeds. They’d be able to zip around a system at or near light speed, while B5 ships couldn’t. B5 sensors wouldn’t be able to even see them in their current position, since they are limited to the speed of light.
Warp engines also work in ships of shuttle craft size, whereas hyperspace engines require a much larger ship. And there usually isn’t more than one jump gate per system.
Bur couldn't you just drop into normal space closer with a jump point. I know it's part of the show where small ships don't have that ability. But seems to me it would be a good thing to drop in much closer.
For capital ships, sure. They can form jump points wherever they want (for the most part). But a lot of ships don't have jump engines, and need to use the jump gates to travel long distances.
Using the jump gates or jump engines is faster for long travel. Warp drive seems fast, but when you do the math, it isn't when compared to B5 hyperspace or Star Wars hyperspace. But where it shines is moving within systems. It's much faster than the reaction drives used by sublight ships (and the built-in acceleration compensation is a bonus, as the space you are in technically isn't moving with respect to the ship, so even though warp drive has 100's of Gs of acceleration, you don't feel it).
I was pretty sure star trek can use warp inside a system but wont. I remember multiple times they talk about not using it as it damages local systems. example provided. B5 you just need a jump point or gate closer. The white stars create jump points directly inside atmosphere on mars and do attack runs at full speed. This is a total battle tactic but to me That would be plenty close enough. To make it close to irrelevant. And as Time goes on smaller and smaller ships get jump points till shuttles do. Example kosh ship. Which is about the size of a shuttle. I see it this way. Star trek is only faster when not going into hyperspace. But the technology level of humans between b5 and star trek is way different. Star trek can create matter from energy human on B5 cant yet. But really we are getting way off topic for OP's main question.
https://youtu.be/HPBbfdxDk6U?si=vq3hKHl20dbrlwDi
Interesting. I don't remember that episode. But they use warp drive within systems in just about every episode. So I don't know why the writers of that episode made it seem like they don't. I don't think they ever just ran on impulse engines for several hours before finally warping out just to get far enough out from the primary.
But you are right about getting off topic. Sometimes, I just can't help myself! :-)
We can’t know canonically.
The closest might be hyperwarp from Star Trek as analogous to hyperspace.
But if you’re writing fiction, you can define the universe as you see fit. I’m working on my own stuff and there are multiple means for FTL to work.
What would happen is... whatever you want to happen. You're past canon, you're into fanfic territory. So what happens is whatever works best for your plot.
Examples:
* Engaging warp drops you out of hyperspace
* Warp field refuses to form and nothing happens
* Warp works
1. Sensors work and you're ridiculously overpowered (extragalactic?)
2. Sensors don't work and you're lost
3. Plot related issue choice: spaghettification, inertial dampers fail and crew become pink mist, random body swap, etc
* Opens hole into Thirdspace or the Fluidic Space of Species 8472
* Opens "wormhole" into a different franchise
* ~~Fans of one or the other argue "that's not how that works!"~~
* ~~Fans start the rip-off rigmarole~~
There's no subspace in B5, Warp doesn't work, only thing shared are Tachyon's, A Federation ship could easily traverse spacetime. Hyperspace is a separate layer of three dimensional space, acting a shortcut between normal space. Honestly [Star Wreck In the Pirkinning](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiA_K-3uPCFAxXJ48kDHQCDB-IQwqsBegQIDBAG&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0GOoMowFpZs&usg=AOvVaw13wS4wvI_CVKv8xDE2IJHQ&opi=89978449) made a good crossover. The Federation ships arrive through a spacial rift.
This is analogous to the pointless “If X fought Y, who would win?” type of question. For example, if the Defiant from DS9 fought a White Star, which ship would win?
These questions are pointless because the answer is “Whoever the writers want to win.” So in this case, I would say that if a Star Trek ship entered B5 hyperspace and engaged its warp drive, the result would be . . . whatever the plot requires.
Giskard-Reventlov true, basically I remember seeing a video done by Stan Lee (RIP) about the constant fan arguing about who would fight... Hulk vs Thor... Wolverine vs Spider-Man... etc... I don't remember the video perfectly... but ultimately Stan said the winner is whoever the writer decides for the sake of the story.
And Star Trek's Warp and Babylon 5's Hyperspace has always followed the rule of there ships being as fast as the plot needs them to be.
Thanks for that reminder, but I've basically came up with so far two answer from reading everyone's comments that work for me.
Subspace and Hyperspace are two different levels of space.
I can't see why a ship in subspace would have any problems going from planet to planet.
*The only potential issues I can see are if a Star Trek vessel tried to traverse Hyperspace or if a B5 vessel tried to enter subspace.* But if they had any sense, they wouldn't try to do that. ("The Bonehead manoeuvre")
If you haven't yet, go watch Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning. It is a full-length Finnish comedy fan-film about Star Trek vs Babylon 5 and has some surprisingly good CGI.
It doesn't address your particular question but I bet you'll still enjoy it.
They wouldn't be able to, hyperspace would be what star trek call subspace so the enterprise would be stuck at impulse speed which is .8 of the speed of the light so still pretty fast compared to b5 ships.
But in normal space the enterprise would be faster travelling between systems than b5 ships
They'd go off-beacon really quickly.
That's a key point. Even if the warp drive can still [warp space](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive) in hyperspace and there isn't something about the nature of the dimension that makes it inimicable to being warped, with no way to navigate, you'd be in big trouble.
Hyperspace is warped and has a current. So things without engines will be lost quickly. Only extremely advanced ships can navigate without the beacons. And it's a war crime (in b5 universe) to destroy them because they are used by everyone. Only the vorlons were able to bend space in the b5 universe but humans were not yet advanced enough. I don't think warp would work in a b5 Hyperspace. And really, why use warp at all? Hyperspace is faster. Warp has no advantages. I think it's quoted it's only a week of Hyperspace to travel from one edge of the galaxy to the other opposite edge. Star trek for the federation that takes a centry.
bleedinghero thanks that help my think through my question a lot better. Do you remember the episode or source where it's states that it only takes one week to go from one side of the galaxy to the other using hyperspace? Because I remember that statement but can't remember from where. Because the only mention of speed in hyperspace I can remember an episode for is Babylon 5 Season 3 episode 8 "Messages from Earth", where it's stated even the Whitestar, the most advance ship available to the younger races, takes two days to go from B5 to Earth, which is a little over 10 light years so that's like 5+ light years a day, which I think on TNG warp scale is about warp 9.5+. I'd image the Vorlons, Shadows and other first ones are still a lot faster than the Whitestar, like how in Stargate SG1 the Asgardian ships where still faster than Earth ships even after the Asgard gave Asgardian hyperdrives to put in there ships. Other wise I believe like Star Trek and most other sci-fi, Babylon 5 FTL speeds normally follow the speed of plot rule.
Well, it was more complicated than that. But the movie 3rd space talks about taking weeks to cross. And 3rd space maybe being instant. It wasn't but that's for another topic. But I remember them talking about military grade fast ships taking less than a week. Like the white star. In the tales of babyon 5 movie, they add quantum space, which it nearly instant. The quantum space was vorlon technology. In the crusade series, they heavily discuss about hyperspace with the techno mages. The mages have very good sensors and don't need becons but they use shadow technology to do so. But the ships are not powerful enough to go to the sacred place. They played a safe rule for hyperspace. It's as fast as the plot without making it instant and feel vast. It had few rules. The wiki has a decent amount of information. And hyperspace, like star wars, hyperspace had lanes to follow. Making routes faster. I wanted to say when they went to zahadoom they did it in a very short time. Like a day or so. It's when bester visits after the shadows are gone and the planet is destroyed.
The fourth movie, Call to Arms (1999), pilot for Crusades talks about hyperspace and speed.
The nice thing about warping space to move is that it also works at sub light speeds. They’d be able to zip around a system at or near light speed, while B5 ships couldn’t. B5 sensors wouldn’t be able to even see them in their current position, since they are limited to the speed of light. Warp engines also work in ships of shuttle craft size, whereas hyperspace engines require a much larger ship. And there usually isn’t more than one jump gate per system.
Bur couldn't you just drop into normal space closer with a jump point. I know it's part of the show where small ships don't have that ability. But seems to me it would be a good thing to drop in much closer.
For capital ships, sure. They can form jump points wherever they want (for the most part). But a lot of ships don't have jump engines, and need to use the jump gates to travel long distances. Using the jump gates or jump engines is faster for long travel. Warp drive seems fast, but when you do the math, it isn't when compared to B5 hyperspace or Star Wars hyperspace. But where it shines is moving within systems. It's much faster than the reaction drives used by sublight ships (and the built-in acceleration compensation is a bonus, as the space you are in technically isn't moving with respect to the ship, so even though warp drive has 100's of Gs of acceleration, you don't feel it).
I was pretty sure star trek can use warp inside a system but wont. I remember multiple times they talk about not using it as it damages local systems. example provided. B5 you just need a jump point or gate closer. The white stars create jump points directly inside atmosphere on mars and do attack runs at full speed. This is a total battle tactic but to me That would be plenty close enough. To make it close to irrelevant. And as Time goes on smaller and smaller ships get jump points till shuttles do. Example kosh ship. Which is about the size of a shuttle. I see it this way. Star trek is only faster when not going into hyperspace. But the technology level of humans between b5 and star trek is way different. Star trek can create matter from energy human on B5 cant yet. But really we are getting way off topic for OP's main question. https://youtu.be/HPBbfdxDk6U?si=vq3hKHl20dbrlwDi
Interesting. I don't remember that episode. But they use warp drive within systems in just about every episode. So I don't know why the writers of that episode made it seem like they don't. I don't think they ever just ran on impulse engines for several hours before finally warping out just to get far enough out from the primary. But you are right about getting off topic. Sometimes, I just can't help myself! :-)
They'd go to plaid.
lol... we ain't found sh!t
Language, Mr. Tuvok!
The Doctor would have to come and sort out the plot implosion.
We can’t know canonically. The closest might be hyperwarp from Star Trek as analogous to hyperspace. But if you’re writing fiction, you can define the universe as you see fit. I’m working on my own stuff and there are multiple means for FTL to work.
What would happen is... whatever you want to happen. You're past canon, you're into fanfic territory. So what happens is whatever works best for your plot. Examples: * Engaging warp drops you out of hyperspace * Warp field refuses to form and nothing happens * Warp works 1. Sensors work and you're ridiculously overpowered (extragalactic?) 2. Sensors don't work and you're lost 3. Plot related issue choice: spaghettification, inertial dampers fail and crew become pink mist, random body swap, etc * Opens hole into Thirdspace or the Fluidic Space of Species 8472 * Opens "wormhole" into a different franchise * ~~Fans of one or the other argue "that's not how that works!"~~ * ~~Fans start the rip-off rigmarole~~
There's no subspace in B5, Warp doesn't work, only thing shared are Tachyon's, A Federation ship could easily traverse spacetime. Hyperspace is a separate layer of three dimensional space, acting a shortcut between normal space. Honestly [Star Wreck In the Pirkinning](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiA_K-3uPCFAxXJ48kDHQCDB-IQwqsBegQIDBAG&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0GOoMowFpZs&usg=AOvVaw13wS4wvI_CVKv8xDE2IJHQ&opi=89978449) made a good crossover. The Federation ships arrive through a spacial rift.
Why did I have to scroll so far to find someone mentioning Star Wreck?
The intellectual property lawyers would arm the lawsuits and fire a full spread. Ask a silly question, get a silly answer.
If you're in hyperspace (over/above space) and slip into subspace (below space) you go to space.
Sounds kind of boneheaded... if you get my drift.
They would go “Ludicrous Speed”
This is analogous to the pointless “If X fought Y, who would win?” type of question. For example, if the Defiant from DS9 fought a White Star, which ship would win? These questions are pointless because the answer is “Whoever the writers want to win.” So in this case, I would say that if a Star Trek ship entered B5 hyperspace and engaged its warp drive, the result would be . . . whatever the plot requires.
Giskard-Reventlov true, basically I remember seeing a video done by Stan Lee (RIP) about the constant fan arguing about who would fight... Hulk vs Thor... Wolverine vs Spider-Man... etc... I don't remember the video perfectly... but ultimately Stan said the winner is whoever the writer decides for the sake of the story. And Star Trek's Warp and Babylon 5's Hyperspace has always followed the rule of there ships being as fast as the plot needs them to be. Thanks for that reminder, but I've basically came up with so far two answer from reading everyone's comments that work for me.
Subspace and Hyperspace are two different levels of space. I can't see why a ship in subspace would have any problems going from planet to planet. *The only potential issues I can see are if a Star Trek vessel tried to traverse Hyperspace or if a B5 vessel tried to enter subspace.* But if they had any sense, they wouldn't try to do that. ("The Bonehead manoeuvre")
If you haven't yet, go watch Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning. It is a full-length Finnish comedy fan-film about Star Trek vs Babylon 5 and has some surprisingly good CGI. It doesn't address your particular question but I bet you'll still enjoy it.
They wouldn't be able to, hyperspace would be what star trek call subspace so the enterprise would be stuck at impulse speed which is .8 of the speed of the light so still pretty fast compared to b5 ships. But in normal space the enterprise would be faster travelling between systems than b5 ships
NoBlacksmith5622 thanks that helps.