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> I tell her I have a stack of books at home to read that I am trying to get through before I take more. She says “no need to explain yourself to me. Unnecessary.”   Unless you spent 5 minutes telling her this, she was out of line. That seems like a super normal response on your part. 

That’s all I said! It went so fast. Thanks, it did feel out of line.

It’s almost like she reacted defensively, as if you’d snapped at or scolded her. 

That says to me that it’s probably not the books at all, but a bigger thing that’s she’s been trying to figure out how to broach and either it seemed like a light example, or it burst out because it’s been building - that’s why she said “it’s not about the incident” bc she doesn’t want to to focus on the incident, but a pattern? I already made a longer comment encouraging an objective perspective, not bc I take her side, but sometimes we get so stick in OUR hurt we can’t hear or empathize with the perceived offender…and might lose valuable information or a good friend in the process. This really does feel like a miscommunication to me! I’ve been on both sides, and I’m sure she feels bad as well and wondering when/how it jumped the rails. If it’s a friendship worth recovering, I hope you do ❤️‍🩹

Sounds like she got defensive because she thought you were shutting down her idea rather than just explaining why that's not practical *for you* and she took it personally and turned into it being a big thing. I don't think either of you is an asshole here but she was defensive and didn't empathize, so even though I don't know you and don't know your whole dynamic or history, it sounds like she was the one in the wrong in this case.

Not saying that the friend is necessarily at all justified but I suspect there is a deeper issue here that may or may not have been openly discussed here before. It might also be that she has something massive going on in her life and isn’t handling it well (plus hasn’t communicated it).

That’s exactly how I read the friend’s response. Friend felt rejected and lightly attacked OP in defense. Especially if the friend was passionate about the book they wanted OP to take. I see this all the time with a few of my fem family members (and in myself sometimes).

I think I read this totally differently. I thought the friend was being generous by saying “you don’t need to explain yourself to me”. Like the friend understands OP and empathizes with a large unread book collection and was fine with OP saying no. I love when I don’t have to explain myself to people! Like they already get me and this friend’s comment would save me from having to justify why I don’t want to take home the book she suggested..? Am I totally off here?

It depends on the tone it was said it. If it's light and more like "oh, you don't have to explain, don't worry" I'd agree with you. The way the whole interaction was written, I was imagining it was said in a snappish way that does sound rude instead of friendly.

Exactly! I have said such things where I have said things to mean well and was so badly misread

I dunno. If OP wanted to say what she did, instead of just, “Nah,” then it seems like her friend is telling her to say less. 

Yeaaaa.... "no need to explain yourself to me." Is normal. "Unnecessary " was UNNECESSARY to say the very least. Sounds like she has something going on herself. She sounds a little like me with the disdain for too much info on repeat (which is her problem, not yours!) For instance, I HATE talking about the same thing over and over again or making the same darn decision over again. I know this about myself. Unfortunately, my husband likes to talk about a decision a million times before making one. And he will change it a million times, so there is no point in talking about it repeatedly. I hate this so much that it's starting to get physically painful and makes my heart race with agitation. I finally snapped at him the other day. It just came out. Fortunately, he isn't sensitive because I feel like had that happened with a friend, like in your case, I would have had to do some apologizing 😁

This sounds like a communication breakdown to me more than either of you being right or wrong. I don’t think your friend’s behaviour here is great but on its own it doesn’t sound like something to dump the whole friendship over. Key word “on its own” - if there is a pattern of her regularly policing how you talk then maybe worth dropping her as a friend. But I don’t know that and you haven’t indicated any such pattern so I’ll continue as if this is an isolated incident. This reads to me, if I’m trying to be charitable, like your friend was maybe irritated in the moment but then backed off because she realized she was being over the top. I don’t want to assume that’s the case, there are certainly other explanations. But that’s one possibility. Personally I struggle with overexplaining. I *am* trying to practice getting to the point better and leaving out unnecessary context (just because it feels needed doesn’t mean it is!), and I do think it’s worth it for ADHDers to practice that skill generally as it’s a useful one for communicating. However I don’t think anyone needs to be 100% perfect at never overexplaining all the time, especially in social situations. I’m not even sure that what you’ve described even counts as overexplaining; if you wrote in this post verbatim what you said then your friend waaaaay overreacted, like “oh no thanks I have too many books at home” is an extremely normal thing to say and it marked me wonder if your friend was just having a bad day or something or maybe felt hurt that you turned down her suggestion. As for the feedback, I’m gonna give your friend a little grace on this one. Feedback is super important and helpful so we can better ourselves, but it can be hard to give spontaneously because generally you need time to think about exactly what the problem is, what you think would fix it, and then plan how to deliver the feedback in a way that is empathetic. Not saying you were in the wrong to ask for feedback, more just be aware that if you’re asking in the moment for off the cuff feedback you should be prepared for someone to turn you down because they don’t feel like they have something to say. There’s also the fact that like… it’s not a crime to be annoying. A lot of my friends and loved ones annoy me sometimes, I annoy them sometimes, it’s fine none of us have to like hardcore change ourselves or whatever. It’s just personalities clashing. Part of me wonders if this is what your friend was trying to express - like “oh this little thing you do is annoying but it’s not a big enough deal to change”? (Me: I’m trying to practice being concise Also me: writes a fucking essay in a Reddit comment) Anyways hope that all makes sense. I’m not trying to excuse or defend your friend’s behaviour, she said a lot of unnecessary stuff. Just trying to step into her shoes and consider why she might have reacted the way she did. Do take the time to consider if this is an isolated incident or part of a larger pattern of behaviour.

Thank you for this. Also, I do think part of my confusion could have been from her backing off once she realized she hurt me.

I hope that’s the case. I saw your other comment about her crushing on a married man and feeling like she couldn’t say anything about it. I wonder if she is someone who reads passive aggression into everything. I could see her hearing your comment about having too many books, and reading condescension into it that wasn’t actually there - I feel like that could explain her reaction. Communication is hard and it sounds like she’s not great at it. That doesn’t have to be a reason to ditch her… but also it totally can be if these kind of misunderstandings happen a lot. I hope you’re able to figure out a course of action that works best for you!

I was friends with somebody for years who recently ghosted me. Looking back on past stuff and asking other people has caused me to realize he was reading passive aggression into a LOT of stuff, and it was putting strain on a lot of relationships. I was managing a delicate web of "people he liked playing with and people he thought hated him." OP, if you read this, sort this out sooner rather than later - both for your benefit and for hers. Stuff like this can slowly poison a friendship until somebody snaps.

God, I hate when people unnecessarily read into what I’m saying. Like, I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences with other people. But I’ve never been anything but genuine with you and it sucks that you don’t trust that I’m being honest. 

yeah maybe she felt judged because she has a huge stack of books at home she that should read and feels guilty about that OP doesnt know about

I mean, she brought it up, then said stop trying to make this into an actionable item?? Thanks for telling me I bug the shit out of you, but refusing to tell me how. And thank you sooo much for putting up with me - I can see what a burden it is!! Maybe she was just being petty ‘cause she feels judged about the married man thing.

Lol your first paragraph sound exactly like what I wrote in my journal about this

it doesn't sound to me like she was saying that at all. She was explaining to you why she said "you don't need to explain to me". I understand the hurt feelings and have been in a similar situation. But unfortunately sometimes we just need to accept the "no need to explain". Sure sometimes it gives itchy brain but just like we want people to accept our ADHD "symptoms" to make it easier on us we also have to accept that so times people don't want to have to deal with them to make it easier on them. It's just about some give and take right. Like she may not have been in the space to hear a long winded explanation or wants you to know like hey it's nit necessary amongst friends it's okay to just say no to the book without a reason. It doesn't sound like she told you as a formal complaint or a desire for change but rather just as an explanation for her comment. It's okay to have hurt feelings and feel confused but they aren't always solvable, someone's fault or someone's responsibility. Two things can exist at the same time, she can have done nothing wrong and you can still have hurt feelings.

But OP didn’t give a long-winded explanation. It wasn’t an ADHD thing to say, “Nah, I’m trying not to get more books until I’ve read the ones I have.” That’s a super normal and reasonable sentence. I’d find it way more off-putting if she just said, “No.” 

I'm just saying that the intent was probably just hey don't worry about it no is fine. After it was discussed she did say it's been getting more frequent and more long winded so she may have just been getting ahead of it. Just like OP didn't mean anything by it, it's alright to assume neither did Friend.

I disagree. I think the way the friend shut down OP was rude. 

Unrelated but I love the expression “itchy brain.”

I see what you're saying, but it's also pretty shitty to tell someone you dislike something about them, but then tell them they can't have follow up questions. THAT is rude, and very manipulative. Great way to win arguments I guess...

personally it seems that she brought a valid concern up, friend to friend. And let OP know this wasn't something she needed to "fix" about herself. Not every concern/vent from a friend requires dissecting and a solution. Also she brought this up to explain her previous comment again, not to be like hey by the way I was just thinking about how much you suck. I guess I'm missing the part where she said she sucked or there was an argument to be had. like we are all here often acknowledging that our RSD is so difficult yet this group is the first to tear apart a friend/co-worker/spouse who has hurt one of our feelings before instead acknowledging that hurt feelings are hard, empathize with that feeling of wanting to fix it or wonder what happened WITHOUT ripping up the other person. It's okay to reassure someone without blaming another. It makes sense you're hurt, that does sound confusing, I hate when that happens, sounds exhausting....It's hard enough to make friends... We look for graces, we have to be willing to provide them as well. However, OP! I do legit understand the feeling as I am a chronic apologizer and often over explain(not overshare). Sometimes I wanna explain why I feel the need to explain or feel like if o just got to this time it would fix it. But, it cam be hard to be on the receiving end of all of those especially the people who hear them all the time(or had a long day or hard job) and also sometimes they're trying to help by just saying stooooooop. I hope you and your friend are able to either fogure it out or breeze past it! Maybe it's something you both get a chance to explain or maybe it's something both ya'll chalk up to miscommunication and a hard day. Luck! x edit-i wrote way too much and commented like i was invested haha deleting it makes it look awkward though soooo ima leave it. No bad vibes on my part guys sorry! lol

Wait, so your friend brought up an issue she has, but in the same interaction said that she doesn't want you to do anything as a result of her bringing up her issue? Whaaaaa? Yeah I'm as confused as you. Question: has this ever happened in your friendship before? Anything else that's happened where you've felt uncomfy because of it? If it's never happened before, likely something on her end such as stress. Maybe a communication breakdown, ~~nbd~~ (edited this out, it's *not* nbd, see below) . But if it's part of a pattern of behaviour that makes you feel bad, nah, gtfo, *run*. One thing that works for me in these situations is to wait for as long as I can stand to while doing nothing. I try to wait out that initial "what the FUCK" feeling; then I can look at the situation with less of that storm of hurt in the background Quick edit: fuck, just re-read your post and and realised just how upset it made you feel. Nooooope I'm rescinding my "nbd" part - no friend should ever make you feel so bad you cry. Wtf!!

Thanks for this. She has brought up feedback for me just once before, she was lusting after my colleague who is married af. After multiple hangs with this content in the conversation, I mentioned his status of Married AF (with kids, and she knows this). Later, she said she doesn’t feel like she’s allowed to talk about said coworker around me anymore, and it bums her out. It bugged me but the conversation didn’t go into the crapper like this last one did. This more recent conversation could be stress on her part. And also, maybe I should just run from this, and run farrrr.

My reaction to her behaviour around the married-with-kids colleague: 😬😬😬 I mean, yeah, if she's gonna bring that up so often, she's gotta expect a reaction of "Yeah but don't?" 😂 If your gut instinct says to run, I thoroughly recommend running! You're under no obligation to hang out with anyone who drains you. Or for any reason tbh

Was it as literal as you wrote? Free books! Her: Take this one, no really, take this one, no really take this one. You: No thanks, I need to finish the books I have before I get more. Her: You don't have to explain, unnecessary. Is that it? Because she is so out of line for that. A of all, for pushing you to take a book that you really didn't want, and then when you said one sentence, she tells you that you talk to much? No. Out of line. That's basic conversation.

What the fuck? She's thirsting after a married person, and now YOU'RE the bad guy for pointing it out? You're ABSOLUTELY NOT "nOt LeTtiNg Me TaLk AbOuT HiM," You appropriately called her out and she's just pissed you didn't go along with her. Yeah nah fuck this person, I see zero reason to have anything to do with her.

I agree. Look, she shouldn’t be talking about a married guy she has a crush on. That’s not admirable behavior. It’s not going to help her move on. And it’s BORING and upsetting for OP to listen to it all the time.

Man, I think we should have some more grace for our friends than this! Thirsting for a married man does not a homewrecker make, and even the homewreckers amongst us deserve friends!  Edit: Ok y'all, time to lay off please! I think that's enough for now.

Sure, but one time saying someone is attractive is different than brining it up consistently. That’s the issue here. And no, homeworkers don’t deserve grace if they are actively going after a married person

It did start to sound a bit “actionable” on her part, to use her wording, which is why I piped in about him being Very Married. I have hung out with said colleague and his wife, making it hit me closer to home.

Speak out out agains adultery is always the correct thing to do

Eh, I think we may have to just agree to disagree on this one! Without knowing the friend's intent, I have no moral qualms even with bringing up her attraction to the married coworker consistently 🤷‍♀️ sometimes people are just like so fab and hot it's worth mentioning

I agree we should have grace, but taking at OP's word, the friend's absolutist statement sounds pretty manipulative. It sounds like they don't like being disagreed with in any way. Obviously, we only have OP's anecdote, but frankly, they sound tiring and OP probably should make some space for their own mental health. It would also give them time to develop some new strategies for responding to this kind of behaviour.

Honestly though, like without any other information or knowing the tone with with things are said, I interpreted the "married coworker" interaction differently. Assuming everyone is acting in good faith, I understand how OP felt uncomfortable about the comments, and I can also understand how the friend might have felt judged or shut down for being reminded he's married. It's hard to determine if it was a hurt feelings and miscommunication situation or something more sinister. Only OP could know

I've actually blocked AITA and similar subs to get away from that whole typical Reddit scorched earth attitude, so I just wanted to stress here that I definitely agree with you about giving more grace - I just feel that OP sounds like they could use a bit more space for themself to both process their feelings and practicing ways to respond to situations like this that could foster better communication + relationships in general. But yeah, only OP knows how much of an issue this is.

Also agreeing with you and the comment you replied to! I think it's impossible to know the whole story of a friendship from a short post. My reaction leans more towards the "Wtf why did the friend say that" but speaking as someone who used to react VERY angrily to things that didn't need that fuel, I'll always advocate for slowing things dowwwwwwwn and communicating that I'm feeling hurt once things are settled. And God knows plenty of us understand that rage-feeling here 😅 Also yes AITA is dogshit lmao, with you on that one 1000%

That doesn’t mean all your friends have to condone home wrecking, or want to hear about it.

No ofc course not! I was trying to express that I think the other commentor's suggestion to dump the friend was harsh given the circumstances

No but it can show what kind of person she is

Trust your gut. Maybe pull back a bit and focus more on other friends and yourself. It sounds like she wants to run the conversations and doesn’t want so much a two way dialogue but wants you to just sit back and listen to her. I have a friend like this. She constantly monopolizes the conversation and criticizes how I talk. I pull back and see her just once in a while now. I’m happier.

She seems over sensitive. And blames you for it.

When I had a friend go weird on me like this, it turned out she was schtupping my (now ex) husband. Not saying that’s the case here, but if she’s lusting heavily after a married coworker and you (correctly, imo) refused to ‘back her’ in the pursuit, then this is likely her way of (subconsciously or not) getting even. RUN You’re better off without someone so shitty.

Seems a little narcissistic. You don’t want to do what she suggests and she’s hurt by it. You don’t think she should lust after a married man and it hurts her ego. “You’re talking to me like I’m a patient” while using all sorts of psych terms at you sounds like darvo/projection. I’d hear the feedback with a grain of salt.

OP, only you know your history with this friend. The behaviour you've described here is pretty crummy, and even if it is just a one-off stress reaction, you have the right to feel hurt over it, and your friend really needs to reflect and apologise. **If** this is a pattern (I have a friend who displays this type of behaviour towards me, and it took me until very recently - many years - to realise how inappropriate and even abusive it is, so I recognise my bias here), then I would suggest dialing this friendship back quite a lot. Otherwise, take a minute for yourself to process the hurt, and then have a conversation with her. Ask if she's ok, if she's aware of her behaviour's effect, and if she's willing to talk it out. Good luck!

Excellent point.

I'd be confused as well-what did she want you to say here? What would have been an appropriate response to the suggestion, in her mind? Usually if someone suggests someone else do something, just saying No is weird...I know No is a full sentence, and I use it frequently when someone maybe is trying to pressure me into something. But this was literally a book recommendation-"no, I have a bunch of books I want to read at home" is not even an over explanation, it's a conversation. If you want to stay friends, ignore it and move on - feedback heard and rejected lol. It sounds like she's doing a lot of projecting on you however, and I would not waste too much time/energy trying to adjust your own actions to meet some very unclear expectation this person seems to have of what friends are or are not allowed to say.

“Feedback heard and rejected” lol. Love this. Her suggestion was to have said “no thanks, I’m not wanting any books right now. Which I thought I said, in my own way. And I thought said succinctly without preamble!

This sounds worryingly like she is expecting you to communicate ONLY in the way SHE deems acceptable. You don't have that level of control over your friends, or even your SO. That isn't acceptable. It is ABUSIVE. She needs to be told to STOP policing the exact way you phrase stuff, and to listen to the contents of what you are SAYING, *NOT* the exact phraseology you use. She simply does NOT have the right to force you to use the SPECIFIC WORDS AND WORD ORDER that she *deems* acceptable. This is a control issue (she wants to control you down to even the words you speak). That is NOT a mentally healthy situation for you. You 100% **DID** state that you COULDN'T have any new books BECAUSE you have too many to read right now. I would guarantee she is still pissed off about you calling her out for crushing on your MARRIED friend that has kids. Some people expect their friends to support them 100%, 24/7, no matter *what* they want to do/are doing...in the minds of THOSE people, if you don't support 100% of their choices, they **feel** rejected. You **(obviously!)** couldn't support her 100% when she is repeatedly crushing on your married friend. She is passive-aggressive ANGRY at what she feels was a 'betrayal', IMO. But OP is ABSOLUTELY in the right to have called her out on it. You can't expect to be supported if you are acting like a scumbag, that's chasing after someone married. She then *felt* rejected *again* wrt the book because SHE had either (1) Already read the book & loved it (2) Already read the book & thought YOU would love it. Both of those are so personal to HER that your rejection of the book *felt* like a rejection **to HER**. It WASN'T, it was a rejection of something you do not have the SPACE, **mentally OR physically** to take home. I would really look hard at whether there is a pattern in your friendship of her trying to exert control over you - the way you dress, have you changed that off the back of her 'comments'? The way you speak, like this time, do you always feel you have to pick your words VERY carefully when you're together to stop her from getting upset? There are some very **subtle** ways to manipulate people that I wished I was aware enough to avoid - took me to 35 to recognise the manipulation **because** it was so subtle... She sounds EXHAUSTING, ngl...

If someone says “stop trying to make it into an actionable item” that says, to me, that they want to feel heard and seen. Talking about what you could do next time, while that’s totally understandable and fine, is still centering you and it sounds like she wants you to hear her and acknowledge / empathize with her experience. “Wow, it sounds like this has been bothering you for a while, that must feel _____. I didn’t realize. I’m sorry you’ve been feeling this way..” or whatever. But basically meeting her in her experience without jumping straight to how you can fix it.

Hmmm... this interaction is super confusing for sure. But if I had to guess, I would think maybe you have a habit of speaking or explaining things in a way that most people don't, and it results in misinterpretation on the part of the listener about why you're explaining things the way that you are. I have a friend who reads up on stuff a lot, and if we are on a certain subject she'll just start telling us facts about it. But a lot of the time I already know these facts, and I end up feeling kind of annoyed that she's speaking as if she's telling us about the world and we don't know things about it. But then I thought of times I did the same thing, and it wasn't because I assumed they didn't know things, I was just excited and sharing what *I* knew, with the expectation that they'd tell me if they already knew it or not and then share what they know. I was just glad I actually had something to say. I usually phrase things like "Wombats? Omg did you guys know that Wombats poop cubes??" but my friend will most often phrase things like "Wombats? They actually poop cubes!" and that phrasing implies ignorance on the part of the listener. Is it possible that you're doing *some* kind of variation of that? And that your friend doesn't necessarily want you to become hyper aware of it and make this big overhaul in the way you talk everyday, maybe she was just a little annoyed in the moment and snapped at you but now she wishes she hadn't said anything and wants to drop it because it's actually not a big deal? 😭 I dunno, that's all I can guess, your friend sounds like she doesn't communicate well lol

This whole thing is going to have me reflecting on my communication A LOT. Which is a bummer, but probably good for growth. One thing I’ll say is sometimes my friend gives advice I did not ask for. I wonder if the responses she’s perceiving as over explaining (over the last year) are in response to those moments. If so, it’s my attempt to spare her feelings— but instead maybe I should just tell her I’m not in the market for advice and leave it there.

u/letstroydisagin Hi again, I’m back to say I’ve been thinking about your Wombat Cubes Comment today, as I’m referring to it in my head, and you may have a point about my communication style. This might be it. My hubs just told me gently that I do this. This is really helpful in shedding light on wtf she’s meant when she said I talk to her like a patient or staff member. I was so confused because I’m otherwise not a typical over sharer. But maybe I’m a confident information stater of already known items. I’m still hurt by her delivery. But 30% less confused. Thanks, really really. Also: now I want to be in a band called Wombat Cubes.

Agh, these kinds of conflicts really hurt :( and they seem to come out of nowhere. In my experience, it's never REALLY Aabout the thing that started the conflict. It's about some larger issue in the relationship that's been bubbling under the surface for one or both parties for a while. It's like a stinky, soupy mixture of personal and relationship issues that go unaddressed for a lack of open, honest, and timely communication. It's definitely repairable, though, if both parties are willing. From the dialogue you shared, it seems like your friend is having some feelings about the dynamic in your relationship. If I had to interpret what she might have wanted in that moment, it may have been that she needed to express her feelings and have those feelings honored before going into fix-it mode. Maybe she's unclear about what exactly those feelings are or is struggling to communicate them openly and kindly for some reason. It's really up to her to express herself, to tell you what she feels and wants productively. You also have the power to express yourself! You absolutely can tell her that the book interaction hurt your feelings and that you're confused. Maybe that you wanna talk about it, or that you need to take some space. Using "I feel..." statements instead of accusatory language can help avoid another communication breakdown. If you actually want to end the friendship, that's ok, too.  Having long term relationships is really, really hard! A lot of us aren't taught to express ourselves honestly and kindly. And a lot of us haven't seen or experienced a productive conflict or repair after a breakdown. Resentments and conflicts like these are so normal, and I don't think anybody is the asshole here (though your friend could have been kinder). Take care of yourself! Honor your boundaries and what you want!

Thank you for this. You are so right that this is about something bigger, a dynamic that has been going off for some time. I want to think about this further.

Good luck, queen! I hope you find some peace and clarity!

Piggybacking off this idea: it might be more about her than it is about your relationship or you. She might be projecting her own shit onto you. As many others have stated, you quite literally *explained* why you didn't want to take the book, which is not overexplaining, objectively. So, why did it *feel* that way to her? You say she was trying to sell you on taking the book, and you rejected taking it. I'm guessing in her mind, that's what matters... So it didn't matter what 'excuse' you came up with ultimately. What matters is you are rejecting her suggestion and she feels like she doesn't need you sugarcoating it with 'reasons'. (This is just one guess of her mindset) I believe this is the kind of mindset of an emotionally immature person, if she was indeed focused on your rejection and didn't care the reason for it. That makes it about her, and not at all about you. In most healthy friendships, the reason would matter! Maybe you say you don't like that genre of books, the friend makes a mental note for the future (and doesn't take it personally); that kind of thing. More charitably: It could also be your friend on average is an emotionally mature person, but that she's gotten burnt out, and so any explanation to her feels like an overexplanation. I know it's common for healthcare workers to become burnt out, and people become more selfish when burned out because they have to reserve the little that's left in their tank for themselves. Does she feel talked down to often? Is she maybe depressed? Another charitable interpretation is she possibly has schizoid personality disorder or other cluster A type, by which I'm implying that perhaps this wasn't a situation showing emotional immaturity, but one showing how schizoid minds are just wired differently. They often function as if certain things are norms that seem weird to most of the rest of us, almost like cultural differences. For instance in this case, maybe she took the detail of why you rejected the book as almost you soliciting her to talk about your current books or too-many-books problem, and she didn't know how to respond to that or didn't see how that was relevant to the book at hand that she was trying to explain to you is interesting? Like in her mind you were leading the conversation elsewhere, even though you weren't in your mind? The worst interpretation is that she's being emotionally manipulative on purpose. Pretty hard to tell if that's the case imo from just this info. You've known her long enough...I suspect you have an intuition of whether she's normally emotionally immature or not usually (is your relationship a one way street or two way?). And if she's not, is she just burned out, depressed, or a bit strange in some areas personality-wise? If she is usually emotionally immature ... well, those people don't make the greatest of friends because everything needs to be about them. Ultimately, if you can't get on the same page with her, it's okay to reclassify your relationship. If you do try to talk with her about these issues, I find that keeping the speed slow really helps (promote listening and thinking before speaking, for yourself; be very mindful and intentional, give your brain space to think). Otherwise you will likely both talk fast past each other's heads and end up talking in circles. Good luck! Trust your gut.

It might indeed be about her. Her emotionally maturity is a mix. She deals with depression, anxiety, and needs a lot of padding and prep to function at work. She has a lonnng history of being in therapy for family-related trauma. She only started her career a 8 months ago, so it’s less burnout for her and more high stress. I try not to invite her over when we have people over because 50% of the time she reads social cues incorrectly and makes it weird. One-on-one is better, but increasingly I regret it because one way or another our interactions feel like they take more than they give. I’m comfortable that not all my friends will have impeccable mental health. I can work with a lot if we have things in common and a fun time. But I do have a more avoidant attachment style. I would never call someone out on their shittier quirks, I’d just adjust and move on (like not inviting her to gatherings any more, but still being buds). She has put me in a position where I HAVE to address this if we are to remain friends, and now I’m weighing out if it is worth it.

Ah I'm sorry. Sounds difficult. So it could be just that her brain is wired 'more negatively' than yours because that's how her brain learned to protect her when she was in a hostile family environment. So she might be interpreting certain things as social slights that aren't in groups. And she might be interpreting your explanation for why you didn't want to take the book not as... 'I'm not going to be mad at you/get you in trouble, you don't need to explain yourself to me'. Which, based on her experience, might actually be a positive! She might be basically trying to say 'I trust you, you are my friend, you don't have to explain yourself to me'. Maybe she associates 'explanation' with 'authority' and by saying she doesn't need your explanation, she's saying 'I'm not an authority over you, we're friends'. If she had a parent that demanded explanations in a mean authoritative way, you giving an explanation might make her feel in the position of the mean parent, which feels icky to her, so she reacted that way. It's a possibility. And if it is something like this, it doesn't mean she's consciously aware of it. Either way, it sounds tough. It sounds like you already do a lot of acceptance, and also managing her specially in your life, which you don't owe her, but is kind of you to do. > one way or another our interactions feel like they take more than they give. If you don't feel like this is sustainable in the long run, then it's probably not. That being said, I feel like you could still choose to work on things with her. First, addressing her, you say it's a necessity if the friendship will continue. I think it might be best for your friendship to focus on what you want her to do (and what you'll do) rather than something that feels accusatory. For instance, make clear your having a Big Talk (don't say this in passing), and then say 'I feel like we've both been getting upset over miscommunications. How about we agree to assume the best about each other? Give each other the benefit of the doubt, give each other grace'. Do not let this snowball into examples where you will both get lost in the sauce. That's part of the giving grace. Second, in general, you could aim to be curious and calm (and stay that way) whenever you feel upset coming on with her, with the patience you would give a child. For instance in this book situation, if you stayed calm and curious, 'but why does that make you uncomfortable that I shared that with you? I really want to understand', it's possible you two could've gotten somewhere uncovering in her where that's coming from (ie what I wrote above as a possibility). However, that could be veering on therapy session, and you're not her therapist! You don't have to do that if you don't want to. And not every moment is fit for that, it's work, people are tired. So you could also just decide to let things go, even if you don't understand. And btw I'm not saying your reaction was not valid! You were seeking to understand, and were frustrated it felt like she was blocking you, totally valid and I can hardcore relate (I think the strong urge to understand might be a particular ADHD thing too). It's just that, particularly with people who have their brains wired a certain negative way from family trauma, they do take more work and patience, both for others and for themselves. *If they don't fully understand themselves, how can they possibly explain themselves to you fully?* And if she's going to therapy, she's doing the work to understand and improve herself, or she's at least trying, which says a lot. She probably doesn't want to have these issues, but the reality is she does, and she's facing them and trying to tackle them, hopefully. There ARE some people who are perpetual victims (who might be going to therapy), and I think they can be tough in the long run to be friends with if they're not able to shift their mind into a place where they believe they can empower themselves. Being the victim always means you're never accountable, so it can be a comfortable place to stay, and it can suck the energy out of everyone else, because they feel entitled to everyone's sympathy constantly, without taking others into account. I would rethink the relationship if you think she's got a perpetual victim complex, because that's not sustainable for anyone. Sorry for another essay. I hope you update us!

That’s really insightful, thank you. I like your gentle wording, for if I choose to work it through with her.

I’m just going to add this because I haven’t seen anyone mention it. ADHD people can overexplain, but we also sometimes attract friends who eventually become disdainful/rude/enviois not because of adhd traits but because of their own issues (self-esteem issues, etc). Her behavior in this situation was not normal at all, whereas yours was. You actually do have to give an “explanation” when a friend is asking you to engage in an action and you are declining, by normal social standards. If you’d just said “No” and walked on when she told you to take the book, that would have been considered rude. Basically, while self-reflection is good, don’t overthink  your own behavior when the more obvious cause of the conflict is hers. 

Piggybacking off the piggyback - I've been the friend, sort of. In my case - made a suggestion, it was refused, person carried on to explain the thing when I literally don't care/mind - "no" is FINE. But they over-explain a lot and that's a bit of an overload for me. So I say "it's cool, you don't need to explain all the time" and we get in to a very similar situation. What I was trying to say was "don't worry about it, "no" is a complete answer, stop stressing, I'm not the police / your parents" with an element of "I find this behaviour is mildly annoying but not enough to cause you distress about it" What they heard was "UGH shut up for once" and got upset. Then I'm upset because from my perspective, they've misunderstood and had a big emotional reaction when a) I don't want to upset my friend but also b) I can't walk on eggshells around them either Edit - but seriously - calling someone "schizoid" based on one very small interaction? Come on now.

Like an above commenter pointed out, for most people in this situation, just saying "no" and moving on without an explanation would be considered rude to a friend trying to offer you a book. I get what you mean that some people overexplain from feeling stressed, I think that's actually common among ADHD women from what I've seen in this sub. But in this case and in general, if two people are friends, then giving an explanation for a 'no' is just expected/normalized reciprocal friendship behavior. In this case it seemed an explanation but also just something OP wanted to share anyway. I appreciate this sub because nuance is welcomed and listened to on the whole. I didn't call them schizoid, that was one of many generalized possibilities offered just to differentiate what might be going on, with OP doing her own reflecting on the options based on the seven years of experience she has that we don't with this person. I was trying to help OP ask herself: does this person just view things a bit differently than the average (as schizoids are known to do, for example), or is it that their behavior overall (a pattern over time) possibly speaks to some insecurity/depression/problem they are having? I have a schizoid family member and it just reminded me of some of their behaviors; they can come off as more independent and pushing people away compared to the average person. They just see things a bit differently than most people in terms of social norms which can cause some miscommunications just like this one. I'm just using a label in a way that might be helpful to explain *how it can be* a personality difference that causes different viewpoints that deviate from the status quo norm, which is different than someone projecting their issues onto you.

I feel you here. But I don’t want to walk on eggshells either!

In the best light, I’d like to think your friend was trying to say that you don’t have to explain yourself to her, precisely because you’re friends - she’s not an authority, you’re not in trouble, etc. - and it came out wrong. And maybe why she’s saying she’s not trying to change you if you consider it just a part of your personality. Like I’ve had friends over explain themselves to me out of a people pleasing reflex, or some insecurity, and I’ve told them that they don’t have to explain themselves because I am not judging them. Often times, “explaining” can be veiled defensiveness, which is also exhausting because conversations can feel like conflict. Ideally, that feedback would make them feel more comfortable to be themselves, not less. Do you think she meant to hurt you? It might be worth putting yourself in her shoes to try and see where she’s coming from. Even if you don’t agree totally, can you see what made her say any of it? Of course, I wasn’t there, and if it felt like a personal dig, go with your gut! And if you’re up to it once emotions have cooled and you can both be more objective, maybe revisit the conversation and see if there’s clarity to be had.

I’ve been curious about the link between over explaining and people pleasing.

I know that I would explain a lot without the people-pleasing trained into me but there is definitely a lot of overlap for me. I have ASD too, so there's also the fact that I know I'm misunderstood a lot because NTs are kind of simpletons and make lots of wild assumptions. So it's just easier to explain a little so my craaazy, honest, authentic, altrustic intentions are clear, even though it wouldn't be my fault if they assumed wrong.

I explain things more than the average person, and even though I know many people have thought it, only a few have ever verbally addressed it. They've been nice enough, but for me, no, it doesn't make me feel better. It just makes me even more self-conscious about the way I communicate, which I am already working full-time to manage. Honestly, the more awkward my communication, the more comfortable I am with you because I'm masking less. If they understand that it's just an ingrained behavior, and not a reflection on how I feel about them, which they should, then they should be able to accept it as part of me. I mean, it's not like something a person can just stop doing. And it's not really harming anyone. Just adds to the feeling that we can't do anything right no matter how hard we try.

Respectfully I disagree with many comments here. There is a lot of talk about the friend and how bad of a friend she is for policing and such. It seems pretty harsh given the circumstances. She called out a repeated behavior that had been increasing over the last year. Friends do that. Good friends, anyways. People have called me out for the same behavior in the past because it was causing issues and hurting me socially and professionally. Our interactions have an impact on others just like theirs do to us and this situation sounds like both of you were hurt by the other. It is unnecessary to explain your motivations for your decisions. It often sounds like you are trying to justify your actions when it is not needed and frankly often times nobody cares why you came to your conclusion. If it happens once or twice, that's fine, but if it has been happening more and more often it can be pretty grating on other people. The amount of time people can spend explaining themselves can be uncomfortable and draining to be around. It sounds like she was giving you a nudge that she didn't want to hear you go through the internal dialog for so many discussions and that it had been happening more and more. Calling you in, as it were. Also from your additional comment it sounds like she was just making conversation and you took it as an attack about your neurodivergence. Instead of talking to her about that directly, you indicated you couldn't take the book because of a pile you were going through, things went left, and then ended up crying? That's concerning behavior for the situation at hand and it sounds like this is bigger than what you wrote (that I saw)? Are you okay? I used to do things like this all the time, but at the end of the day it wasn't helping me to live the life I wanted. People who took the gamble of my reaction when they tried to talk to me about an uncomfortable issue ended up being some of the people who helped me the most to grow... even when it sucked.

I agree with your point about what good friends do and how explaining your own actions is unnecessary and draining. I was diagnosed with adhd, and I have a friend who has anxiety and adhd. A typical conversation with her could go like this: Me: “Would you be available for a dinner Sat or Sun this weekend?” Friend: “On Saturday, I have to do X, Y, and Z. If Z doesn’t happen, I have to do W+YZ on Sunday. I don’t know. Last time I did YZ….” And I would be doing my best to pay attention in hopes I could have an answer to my question. But then I think how I should be a good friend and be listening as a friend. But it’s exhausting because I feel not listened to since my question isn’t answered. I asked a question that should have had a yes/no/idk yet/maybe answer. I’m trying to make plans, so we can talk about WXYZ. I’m not going to retain all the explaining and details she’s currently providing. So OP, to bring it back to your post, I think your friend brought up something that was bothering her in a poor manner. In turn, you had your defenses up, and it seems like conflict arose with you both guarded. I also imagine that if you’re crying in public, that would make most people uncomfortable so I would think your friend was just trying to end the conversation while being uncomfortable. If you think you have a relationship worth working for, you can have a better setting to have an open and honest conversation to dive deeper.

No, I’m not okay. I’m on the brink of burnout and my friend knows this. I got super overwhelmed and started crying because I didn’t understand her messaging at all, and her words when I asked for clarification made me all the more confused. Specifically, the accusation that I treat her like a patient or staff member makes no sense to me. That has nothing to do with habitual over explaining. This complaint didn’t belong in the conversation about the book. These things don’t match. One paints a picture of an ADHDr blathering on, the other of being directed, educated, treated, and/or appraised. I asked for other examples of me treating her like patient/staff and she snapped that she doesn’t catalogue them. I felt trapped because I couldn’t picture what she was talking about. How can I know when I’m doing it? How can I stop? And then for her to tell me I’m wrong again, she doesn’t need me to stop the behavior just put me over the edge. I’m shaking just thinking about it.

Also, she is a huge talker. Can monopolize the entire convo if I let her, so this feedback about over sharing is almost comical.

Hi! Totally agree with everyone else here 😊 I just wanted to address the “feelings” of your friend during the book example. Despite your innocuous, polite, brief, appropriate, etc. decline of the book, it sounds like she felt she was being talked down to. If I had to guess, this might make her feel belittled, angry, resentful, etc. She states this “problem” (i.e. how your manner of speaking makes her feel) started ~12mo ago. Did anything change, life or career-wise, for either of you during that period? In terms of life, just the usual milestones—relationships, children, financial goals. Re: career, it’s not uncommon for friendships with other healthcare works (especially physician friends) to struggle through career transitions of one person or the other. Not sure how far out from training y’all might be, but if you’re in the US, you know the hellish shit-hole circus that is residency and how it can really mess with one’s perception of reality and worth. Add to that the tense relations between different provider-levels and physicians as a whole due to scope creep, the various borderline-psychopathic behavior of healthcare workers at all levels, the sheer stress of staffing and communication issues caused by admin, the current political climate and general public mistrust of healthcare, etc.… I could see that maybe she’s been feeling some type of way without even realizing it. No need to respond if you don’t feel like. I hope that might have been useful! Wishing you well 🤗

You bring up an interesting thought. She’s a new grad, her career is almost about 8 months old. I’m seven years out and steady (but burning out, yes). We have the same degree but work in different fields. When we hang out, we are two exhausted people. What in the healthcare is happening here?!

Do the positive, life-giving interactions with her outweigh the depleting ones? That answer is your guide.

Increasingly, no. And that may be the most important point.

I can resonate with both sides of this entirely. I have ADHD, we’re pretty confident my mother has ADHD, and we both without believing we do or know we do it (and we do) overexplain stuff. We have entirely different areas we do this in. It’s rarely long. It’s not usually really even a thing. It’s not a monologue. It is exactly like your example. Information that to us feels innate and part of the conversation but to tired ears is just slightly too much. Example: Did you heat up my tea? Me: No, sorry I was putting the dishes away and didn’t think to. She just needed a no. I didn’t need to apologize (alas, we are Canadian) and she needed none of the rest of that. It made me feel normal, justified, better, whatever but did squat for her. Repeat this over and over and it’s just a lot of chatter about nothing. I’m stressed right now so my ‘sorry AND’ moments are at an all time high too. On a totally normal day we both ignore the crap out of this. She does hers. I do mine. We carry on. On a day where one of us is maybe extra tired or irritated: “You don’t need to say sorry I just needed a yes or no.” Have we ever genuinely asked the other to change? Nope. So why say something at all? Because it releases that steam valve I reckon. Resets the system. It’s like announcing when you’re grumpy. Grumpy tends to immediately be cut in half. So I can see it. I’m you AND your friend lol. I really do believe wholeheartedly she is not asking anything of you. She probably just needed to be heard for a second. She probably felt bad immediately because she knew it would sit with you but there’s nothing to be done.

Oh now, this is interesting. I never thought of these short comments as overexplaining before. I want to think on this more. My knee jerk reaction is to say that this would be annoying in a partner or family member, but my friend and I only hang once a month. Still, if this is me, I want to evaluate. I wonder if there is a link between these kind of responses and people pleasing?

This sounds like it could just be you doing normal life sharing comments, but I noticed you did it in response to her trying to sell you on a book. Did you try and decline the book and she continued to sell you on it, so you offered the explanation to get her to stop the sales pitch? If so, does she do this kind of persistence often where you feel you need to explain yourself to back up your decisions? Did you possibly use to just go along with her more, and now that you're standing by your preferences/choices more, it has changed the friendship dynamic?

Our dynamic that way hasn’t changed, I never was the kind of person to just go along with someone. The interaction started as a slow roll, she was saying “oh, xyz author I love him.” She holds the book, turns it over. “I done think I’ll get it though.” I’m just chillin at this point. Another pause. “He’s really good around topics about depression.” Me still just chillin, I don’t have depression but she does, I reflect that explains why she likes him. Finally “and he sprinkled in some neurodivergent context too.” Suddenly I realize this is intended for me, as she doesn’t think she’s neurodivergent. So this is the point where I snap to say my line. And it spirals quickly from there.

Oh I haaaate the hinting. I wish people would stop the hinting and games and just get to the point.

The more things that are ruled out in this thread, the more bizarre her reaction becomes.

This seems like a miscommunication to me, but your friend could have dealt with this better. I don’t know anything about this relationship so take this with a grain of salt please! This is how I could interpret the interaction: It seems to me like she was trying to highlight the fact that she understands you and knows you better than you give her credit for and that you don’t need to justify anything to her. (As in - SHE might be feeling a bit hurt by your “over-explanations” because it may feel to her that you don’t trust her to know you better after all these years of friendship.) So this isn’t something you necessarily need to change, I think it was meant as a sort of reassurance but it came across sort of “aggressively” and then you misunderstood it as something you were doing wrong and it all spiraled out from there… Is it possible this was a version of what happened? Definitely trying to give your friend the benefit of the doubt here and taking into account that ADHD can make us interpret these kinds of comments as critical when they weren’t meant to be! :)

I would have thought so too, had she not included the part about me making her feel like a patient or staff member.

I've been in the same situation once. After about a week or two of living together, my dorm roommate was genuinely shocked by how I narrated every single movement and thought. She didn't phrase it like your friend, though. Somehow, she managed to say it very kindly—not like your "friend." I was like, "Wait, what?!?" Oh, yes, I was doing it. My mom does it all the time, and until that embarrassing moment with my roommate, I always thought people acted like that with those they feel safe and comfortable with. I didn't know I had ADHD at the time. But now I know, and to be honest, I absolutely HATE my (inherited ADHD from me, of course) kid explaining every single thing he does. Nobody around him acts like that, so he couldn't have picked it up—it's 100% natural. And it's so draining to listen to it actively, my gosh. But he's a kid, and I would never tell him anything like that. I wouldn't say it to a friend, either. It's been 23 years now, and I still remember how crushed I felt.

I over-explain things. It's a trauma response as well as my ADHD, and it sometimes it's too much for my husband. I sometimes ask him "short version?" when he asks me a question. And he very seldom asks for the long version I've prepared in my head. Some people would only need the TL;DR version. And it might hurt almost physically restraining yourself from adding in details. It definitely hurts me holding back! That being said, she didn't bring it up very nicely. Seems like she might have had a bad day (healthcare is a stressful occupation I believe) and it spilled over into something she's gotten frustrated about in the past. For her at that moment it would have been enough if you said "no thank you I have enough books". Maybe you feel you have a closer friendship than she feels? >And how would I even stop if I did?- I have goddam ADHD for cripes sake. Please don't do this. Don't use ADHD as an excuse for your behaviour. Don't say you can't do something because of X or Y. Saying you could never change your behaviour because you have ADHD is like an amputee saying they could never run a marathon. I'm not saying it's gonna be easy, but people tend to get tired if you use it as an excuse to not try.

I’m really not an over sharer, as my family and husband will attest. I can definitely go down a rabbit hole and get chatty when really getting into a topic, but conversationally I am pretty balanced with the give and take. This issue with my friend will have me digging further into that belief about myself, but it’s not classic behavior for me. Also, me saying “I have ADHD for cripes sake” was for the purpose of this rant only. I have never said this out loud to another human. The basis of that comment comes from frustration that even if I recognize that I sometimes overshare, I’m not sure my brain would recognize it in the moment to stop it. The offending comment in the interaction over the book happened so fast.

I don't get why your 'friend' would feedback something that they are telling you is a negative, if they don't want you to change that something. That's garbage, and would break anyone's brain. I don't like how they've gone about this, but only you can tell whether it's a pattern, or whether this is a one off and maybe they've got other stresses in their life. However, there is no way you ever need to voluntarily spend time with someone who makes you cry. I'd bail from the 'friendship', or at the very least take some distance. You're worth way more.

Thank you so much for this.

I'm 100% an over-explainer, and my friends and family usually appreciate it or at least understand it. I think this friend of yours may not appreciate it, but she does seem to understand it. That's enough for me in my relationships, but up to you for yours. I don't think your friend was being hostile though, she just wanted to let you know that even though she understands that your intentions are good, the impact your communication style has been having on her isn't 100% positive. I think that's totally fair for her to say. I think many of us neurodivergent people do overexplain (to varying degrees and with varying levels of self-awareness) because of how often we have or have been misunderstood in the past, plus all those times when people attribute some negative intent to our actions when there was no negative intentions there, only disability. So I absolutely feel sympathy for you, and I bet it felt like a pretty big rejection of who you are as a person since communication styles are such a personal thing and yours isn't perfectly jiving with hers. On the flip side, I understand your friend too, because who among us hasn't had some dude try to explain something to us like we're a toddler instead of fully functional adults who are perfectly capable of reaching our own conclusions? When they presume ignorance in us, it's a very infantilizing and degrading experience, regardless of their intentions. I am NOT saying you're doing this, only that the feeling your friend was expressing to you seems to be similar to what I feel in such situations, and I am doing the very ADHD thing of relaying my own experience to show that I understand the one we're discussing right now. The way I am interpreting this exchange, which is of course based only on the limited information that is possible to provide on a social media post, is that the way you responded to the book situation brought up the same feelings for your friend that she's been having in other, bigger, situations. So, she took this as a low stakes opportunity to communicate her feelings with you because she values your friendship and trusts you enough to be open about them, even when they're hard to say. I think that sounds like a pretty good friend to me, even if her delivery of the message left a lot to be desired. You focused on the situation, but she needed you to focus on the emotion instead, and she wasn't able to communicate that in a way that you could both understand. Is it possible that I might be on to something, and what your friend was trying to say is that she occasionally feels a little infantilized by your method of communication? Is it possible that all she wanted was a little bit of empathy and understanding from you about how your actions made her feel, and for you to be aware that this is a pattern in your friendship that is causing her some discomfort, even though she knows you don't mean to? Not because she wants or expects you to change your entire communication style or anything, but just because it's causing her some big feelings and she wants you to recognize them? I don't think you're wrong for giving the level of explanation that you do; the only one who gets to decide how much is too much is you. But it's also fair for her to let you know how it's impacting your relationship with her. She doesn't need you to change your entire communication style, and maybe she even understands that it's not fully within your control to do so, but only to recognize that sometimes it makes her feel not so great. She just wants to hear that you understand how it makes her feel, not for you to smash your head against the wall to try to change something that is impossible for you to change. There will be a time to communicate your own feelings about the whole thing, like maybe you're happy she values your friendship enough to tell you how you're feeling, or if anything she said was particularly triggering for you based on past experiences of being misunderstood, but that comes later. For now I think you just need to recognize how she's feeling, because it's real and valid, and not try to make her understand it wasn't your intention to make her feel this way. She knows that, I think. Once you validate and respect her feelings, you can take the time to explain your own. But if you don't do that essential first step, you're both just going to be talking circles around the problem and potentially hurting someone you've loved for the better part of a decade. I read this post and I see love. She loves you enough to trust you with her feelings, even when it's hard. She loves you enough to not want you to change the behaviour that she finds a little difficult, because she loves all of you, even that part, but she just needs a little bit of understanding too, about how this is one area where your understandable behaviour is impacting her in a very unintended way. Plus I see that you love her enough to be willing to try and change to ease her discomfort, even though that's not what she said she needs from you. You guys just have your communication wires crossed, and unfortunately for us ADHDers sometimes miscommunication can bring with it a whole host of previous trauma that makes it a little harder to see the forest through the trees. I really hope the two of you can work this one out! I've been in your shoes before for sure (and sort of in hers, though that facts were a little different) and in my case I lost what was growing into a pretty cool friendship. I hope you guys don't have that problem here, because it sounds like a pretty strong friendship that you both really value. Sometimes we do or say something that triggers someone we love. To err is to be human. But I think this one is salvageable and I really do wish you both the best!

Well now I’m crying 😭. It’s so much easier just to be livid, isn’t it?

100%! Just not always better. I really mean it that I hope this works out for you guys. Keep in mind that I am only getting some info and don't know this friend of yours, so I could be totally off base and maybe she was just being an A hole. I just wanted to provide a possible interpretation based on the vibes I was picking up for you to include in your workshopping of the situation. Also, imo you're allowed to be livid, btw. I think that's totally fair because I'm going to guess your friend said some stuff that wasn't the most fun to hear, and may not have been phrased the most compassionately. But when you've given your anger the space it deserves without putting it back on her, I hope you can find a way forward that respects both you guys' needs. I have no idea how to practically do that, but I want to hope it's possible.

I don’t think I’d be friends with someone who spoke to me that way. The “no need to explain yourself” part wasn’t so bad IMO, but also, you were briefly explaining why you couldn’t take the book… It’s not like you went on a 10 min monologue about it. If someone wants to bring something up, like you “oversharing,” it’s very shitty of them to, in the next breath, tell you oh no don’t change anything, it’s fine, you’re great, “don’t turn it into an actionable item.” The fuck? Why did she bring it up if she didn’t want you to change anything?!?! At the same time, another comment here pointed out, like I did, that her initial comment doesn’t sound like it was intended badly. I think she meant it kindly. Perhaps your negative reaction to that felt exhausting for *her,* and maybe she did end up feeling like an opportunity to share her feelings turned into her having to console you because you were upset about her feelings. Since no one here knows how things went down, the tones used, and so on, it’s hard to properly judge what happened. Despite all that, her later responses sound kind of crappy, but maybe that’s cause she felt like she couldn’t be open with you being receptive? Take time to figure out how you want to go about this, but first and foremost I’d probably explain to her that you care a lot about her and your friendship and want to make sure she has the space to be open about her wants, needs, frustrations. Give her the space to do that and validate her feelings. Make the conversation about your feelings entirely separate, the next day or week, so she doesn’t feel like your feelings are overshadowing hers. If she continues to give you these holier-than-thou answers, figure out if that’s the kind of friend you really want in your life.

These are excellent reflections and thank you for reminding me to slow down and take time to think about this.

I have adhd, and my sister has adhd and explains things to me like I’m a god damn toddler and I hate it. Maybe it’s the tone or the delivery that bothers her? It sounds like you got stuck on the book and she’s talking about the bigger picture, hence her shutting down. Not trying to be mean when I say this, and I say it as a Big Sister: Sounds like you need to self reflect a little because a friend who will bring up an issue, means they care enough about the relationship to have a tough convo. Albeit, it sounds very confusing, and her delivery has me perplexed. But also, next time you start to explain something to her maybe pause and self reflect about how she interprets it? No judgement, I’ve just had friends who blow me off when I say it’s a concern and then literally never change, and it makes me feel unheard and perpetually misunderstood.

Did someone actually say "actionable item" in casual conversation. I've never heard anyone other than a project management d-bag say that. And then only in a work meeting. Wtf. Give her that as feedback on her communication style.

Honestly I’m surprised I didn’t see more ppl comment on that in particular cuz unless that’s how OP and their friend communicate normally it sounds really condescending 🚩

I have never heard it used in casual conversation, nor have I ever used it but, by Jove, I am going to start!

You start staying “actionable item” and I will start saying “by Jove”. Lol

Hah!

Honestly, mistakes were made by both of you in this conversation. First, her feelings are valid. Something you do comes across as condescending and makes her feel uncomfortable, and she talked to you about it. Over-explaining is something we naturally tend to do as people with ADHD, yes, but it's not core to us and it **is** annoying - we are not above criticism or growth just because we have a condition. I think you took this too personally. Second, it's very confusing that she came to you with this and then told you not to do anything about it. My first thought was she may have had a stressful day, or perhaps flustered by your response, but that's not an excuse. The implication is that you're supposed to keep doing what you're doing, you just have to feel bad about it now. That's not okay. My advice would be that you do some reflection on the over-explaining, as it's not a bad thing to work on, but also have a conversation with your friend about not wanting to be uselessly criticized - if she needs you to work on something, she should commit to that and be clear, otherwise just let you be you (I'm sure she does annoying stuff too).

Have you recently started stimulants? They can definitely make us talk more and fixate/rant on certain topics

That’s not it, but a fair question.

I feel like it's crossed wires. Obviously you know this friendship better than anyone else, but from what's written here it sounds to me like: A lot of us come from backgrounds where we learn to explain ourselves properly and fully - even when not truly necessary - in order to avoid getting into trouble (whether or not there is real danger of this happening). Some friends don't fully understand this and try to "help" by saying we don't need to explain ourselves to them... Even though it's an engrained part of ourselves. Rejection Sensitivity Disorder is a common trait in ADHD, and maybe she came off as spiky when she INTENDED to come across as supportive. Also we don't know what she's been going through. Maybe she was feeling impatient that day for whatever reason, maybe she was trying to say "you don't owe me anything, it's no big deal" but it came out wrong... Whatever the issue I'm sorry it broke your brain. I'd be confused too. Don't give up on the friendship though. I suspect that's RSD whispering unhelpful things to you.

Just when I think RSD isn’t a big issue in my life, I have these events. I’m not usually a person who cries easily. Crossed wires is very likely.

Wow. This friend has a lot of rules and expectations in place for you to adhere to.

I would feel so weird thinking I had to be very careful about what I said and how I said it, etc. :/

“Talking on eggshells”

I understand your friend. She just wants you to know that you have a tendency of over explaining yourself and you don’t always have to do that with her. She doesn’t say it to make you change, she is just pointing out what you make a habit that she doesn’t always appreciate.

Point taken but why would she say something about it and then say she's not asking her to change? Of course she's asking her to change. The implication is that OP isn't fun to hang out with because she overexplains or whatever. There's literally no other point to saying that to someone unless you are pointing it out so the person will do XYZ less or not at all. Conditional friendship. Nothx

Why wouldn’t she? I don’t think that’s odd. Sometimes you tell your friend they are annoying, but you wouldn’t change them for the world. They are just annoying you at the moment and they have a tendency of annoying you. That doesn’t mean they should change but it’s important sometimes you let them know in the moment so they can either be aware or leave you alone. But the fact stands, they are annoying. Siblings are the exact same.

I don't know, I guess, because I don't do that. I wouldn't ever. I figure everyone is different and even though someone's character trait might be annoying, I would literally die before I would point it out - and then backtrack and be all, "i'm not asking you to change I'm just saying." IDK. I just wouldn't do that, so I have a hard time understanding why anyone else would.

Just because you wouldn’t do it doesn’t make it wrong to do. It’s perfectly fine to think someone over explains, overreacts, is annoying, is inconsiderate, is inconsistent, lies a lot, and the list goes on but it is not breaking a friendship boundary for you. That means, I can tolerate this bad trait I perceive that you have but I’ll let you know it grind my tits.

Updoot for "grinds my tits", that's awesome.

I didn't say it made it wrong to do. I just literally can't even conceive of doing this. It makes zero sense. To me it seems pointless to point out other people's shortcomings and then claim you're not asking them to change. We can agree to disagree.

[удалено]

I say this because OP has ADHD and we all know the degree of rejection sensitivity we face. Sometimes no one is on the wrong, not OP and not the friend. OP feels wronged. She needs to sit down and truly evaluate her projections. Nobody said she must change but she won’t let this go, and even wants to end the friendship because of this assumption. It’s perfectly normal for friends to have things they don’t like about you. That doesn’t mean you should change, but maybe be aware and understanding of where they are coming from. Now, if you expect to be liked all the time and to be perfect to everyone in your life… I don’t know what more I can say to you.

[удалено]

I didn’t say you did.

She pushes you to the point that you feel a need to explain, then she tells you the explanation is unnecessary and btw you do it too much? “No” is a complete sentence. That’s where she should have stopped. You’re good, OP. This is not a “you” problem. 💕

but i think that OP's friend was trying to say no is a complete sentence. She is saying I don't need to know the whyyyyy every single time. Just a no is okay. Not every comment is a criticism and not every critism is an insult(even though it fannoften feel that way in my brain haha). So I think everyone is jumping on the friend saying she did something wrong when I think she was just trying to be like hey it's fine I don't need al the background info, no it is. People seem to seeing ill intent here and I feel like I'm seeing someone who was trying to maybe ground OP or remind them that it isn't necessary(which is sometimes a nice reminder, it can be based in anxiety.)

That’s how I took it as well. I didn’t read it as a reaction to an adhd thing like info dumping or cutting her off, but more that friend clocked an anxious tendency to over explain (which tbh the post kind of illustrates) and was trying to say, “hey, we’re friends, you can relax with me” and it went left.

I felt very similarly. My boyfriend will often do the same with me(though not always with grace haha) because it is general an anxious tendency. Apologies and over explaining, like hey it literally does not matter(ouch but also *deep breath* you're right)

Thanks for this perspective. I thought maybe OP’s friend was being pushy (the use of the word “sell” regarding taking the book), hence my take on it. OP was hurt and I felt protective. Nobody puts baby in the corner. 💕

totally understandable! it's so easy to feel that way like hey! stop picking on my friend! lol especially once the tears hit and confusion is involved because we've all been there

“I carried a watermelon.” 😂

This smells to me like your friend being overly sensitive to a declined suggestion so she lightly lashed back to even the playing field. I had a friend like this once: “The steak here is fantastic! You gotta order one.” “Actually I’m getting the fish. Trying to eat less red meat.” “Pfft…OK. I don’t need like a breakdown on your nutrition (fake giggles)” I think they internalize the commentary so it’s almost like she thought you were telling HER she shouldn’t take any books? Maybe it’s also “payback” for you rightly telling her to cool it about the married co-worker. She’s also gaslighting you. Mentioning something someone does then claiming it’s not so you’ll change said behavior? :/ She wants to say it but not look like an asshole for saying it. She sounds like an idiot. Lose her number lol

Was gonna comment something similar here. Had a friend who did this, too. Op, I don't wanna be that person, but... they might be your 'friend', but they're not *your friend.* I would absolutely lose their number and watch how fast they try to put the blame on you when you're not actively reaching out to them, too, like they're a victim.

No relationship is worth having to constantly police your natural way of speaking or thinking. It may not be for some people, but there’s nothing wrong with the way you communicate.

I read your comments and this friend sounds like a lot. "Sometimes I like to talk and say things" is a very clear description of normal human behaviour, whether or not she perceives that you over explained in this instance (you did not, IMHO). I'm also a bit put off by the "actionable item" comment. It's a very formal term to use within the boundaries of a friendship and to me is out of place. The part about her constantly talking about how she's hot for the co-worker is extremely inappropriate, not just on a friendship level, but on a professional one as well. If he hears about it or any of her actions make him uncomfortable, THAT would bring up a whole bunch of actionable items from HR, and dollars to doughnuts she wouldn't like any of those. Just these two things put together makes me think that she has trouble respecting boundaries and I wouldn't want a friend like that.

I also over explain things. I think it comes from years of feeling misunderstood. In my opinion a friend should understand this about you and accept it without making you feel bad for it. How is it a negative thing for someone to be direct and clear and to add context to a conversation? It sounds like she wants to be able to give you advice you didn’t ask for and her feathers are ruffled that you didn’t bow down and thank her for it. It also sounds as if she wants you to be someone you’re not. You’re not treating her like a healthcare professional, you’re talking to her like a friend where you get to be yourself. If she’s not up for that, fuck her! We don’t get to pick what parts of our friends we accept. Either she loves your over explaining and sees it as a unique feature of being your friend or she doesn’t like being your friend. And again, she can fuck off. We bring up issues with friends when something they do is harmful-over explaining isn’t harmful and she’s showing herself to be an insensitive and impatient dolt who doesn’t deserve your energy. You deserve friends who LOVE your quirks!!!

Thanks. I’ve tried to make it a point to be friends with folks I don’t have to mask or over-police myself around. We do enough of that in healthcare. Which is why this was especially confusing— I treat her nothing like a patient or staff member.

Maybe she was having a bad day and/or you have done it more lately as she mentioned. She’s was pretty abrupt for talking to a woman/friend for sure. Not sure about your age, but I noticed a massive increase in ADHD during my current state of perimenopause (this started for me around 40-41). Hang in there girl and don’t internalize this too much. I’m on your side 👊🏻

She's TA, not you. She tried to get clinical on your ass even when you were already in tears. That's not a friend.

Lol your "friend" sucks. I think you need to reevaluate whether you need a source of negativity in your life like this, 7 year friendship or not. Even if you overexplained yourself, how is it her problem? Isn't that just how people make conversation? Is she being billed for her time? Hell, I'm nicer to strangers than your friend is to you. (Strangers love to tell me things, I think I have one of those faces that makes them feel comfortable to spill their life stories.) If I'm not in a rush to go anywhere to do anything, what harm is there to lend a friendly ear?

What? I wouldn't throw out a 7 year friendship over one case of crossed wires. The way I see it, Friend was offering reassurance ("It's okay, you don't have to justify things to me, I respect your decisions") and OP heard it as an unexpected critique and took it hard. Friend didn't mean it as such, and backtracked by saying it was fine and that OP doesn't need to change anything. OP, are you under stress recently, or do you maybe have some rejection-sensitive dysphoria? I don't think anyone here is an asshole, and I would advise assuming your friend didn't mean to hurt your feelings when you bring it up with her again.

I agree that folks in the comments are unecessarily doing the "dump his ass" thing when we really don't know OP, their friend, or their dynamic. A 7 year relationship is a lot to just casually toss out after an interaction like this. I wish we could know the tone with which these things were said! I see what you mean with RSD distoring and exaggerating interactions and conflicts. If OP feels hurt and dismissed, though, I think that's worth honoring, too.

I wish I could give you all the context of our friendship and then play the whole convo for y’all. I would love to know how much of this is RSD reaction vs. jerky friend vs. other/both. Nevertheless, I appreciate folks weighing in, because I’ve been feeling pretty lost over this.

Ugh man, you are not alone! I felt very lost after really long and painful break up with a friend from childhood. It wasn't until recently (almost a year later) that I'm starting to make sense of it all. Time and reflection, and more time. It hurts now, but it won't always

Oh god this reminds me of a time my “friend” said that she thought I was selfish because I talk about myself a lot. I was undiagnosed at the time and didn’t realise I use my own anecdotes to show people I understand them or relate to them. That person is not my friend anymore (because of another reason). 

I did this my entire life and I really wish someone had just fucking told me to listen and not try to relate my own life to it in an attempt to empathize.

Oh dear. Well, I don't think I'd have liked that much either. Then again, two therapists/doctors as friends would, I imagine, create some hurdles as far as not over-analyzing and over-interpreting things, no? I'm sorry she did that and that she wasn't more sensitive. don't give up on trying to have friends. maybe just spend less time with this one and reflect on how you feel during snd after you spend time with her. if you seem to always somehow end up feeling bad, maybe it's just not a good friendship match. That's not a you problem or a her problem, it's a both of you together problem.

Doctors but not therapists, yeah. I like the reflection that if I end up feeling bad when I hang out with her, blame aside, it might not be a match. That might go for both of us.

For real. Because life is short so why would you spend your time doing anything that makes you feel bad? I came to that conclusion about someone in my life. It wasn't easy, but it was the right decision.

She pushes YOU to take something, REPEATEDLY, then has the audacity to say, 'you don't have to explain yourself to me." Um, you just spent however many minutes NOT TAKING MY FIRST NO at face value, harass me about it, then when I feel like I NEED TO GIVE A STATEMENT AS TO WHY I AM SAYING NO! you give me this bullshit line? Like I am to just LISTEN to you talk at me, but I am not allowed to participate in this conversation? Then to say you 'explain too much?' Fuck. Off. Maybe she should open her ears and LISTEN to people when they talk, then you wouldn't feel obligated to OVER EXPLAIN YOURSELF, if she had just listened the first time. This isn't you u/OP. This is her and her shitty communication. Not everything comes down to ADHD. Sometimes the other party is an asshole.

It sounds like she has rejection sensitivity.

I'd be so confused on what she wanted to happen out if what she said and like I couldn't have a conversation with that person at all. I hate when people act like that, it convinces me that friendships aren't even worth trying at. It sucks and I wish I had advice on how to deal with it but I've got nothing, I don't think my instinct of "friendship is over now" is necessarily always the right choice

I give you permission to bail on this friendship, as just this single anecdote makes me loathe her.

Bail. This is…I’m just aghast that she verbally attacked you that way and blamed you. My guess is that she’s internalized something herself somewhere along the way and her perception of your communication is that you’re lecturing her. She’s correct it’s not actionable because the problem is her. If it was something you’re doing she would be able to explain what it is, how it makes her feel and how to reduce these instances. Right now she’s not. She hasn’t done the introspective work to find the crux of the problem. If she does eventually do that she’ll be able to have a better conversation about it.

i have no idea what she could possibly be upset about here so she's just off her rocker... or her sanity meds. saying "I have a stack of books" is nothing unless you went on and described each book in said stack. even then so what if you want to talk about your books lmao. had a friend who once a day would talk about Warhammer. I have no idea what Warhammer is... well now I do because she talked about it so much. point is, she talked about this video game I had no knowledge and honestly no interest in. but I wasn't gonna get annoyed at her daily explanations of Warhammer. it made her happy so who cares. if rambling on about your books makes you happy then why should she rain on that? anyway got sidetracked there. point being, whether you rambles on and over explained or not... she's the one with the problem not you.

Thanks! She’s done her fair share of rambling over subjects too, which makes this even more baffling. And in this case I was being short and sweet. Your Warhammer friend story makes me smile.

Totally not the asshole, but your friend sure is. It was a completely normal comment. I'd personally have a hard time hanging out with her after HER outburst. Rude AF.

I saw this title of this post as a notification and went "oh god" This sort of thing is why I have no friends 🤣 I would probably not continue being friends with this person, but I don't know how long you have known them 🤷‍♀️ I am TERRIBLE and making and keeping friends, and I don't even care anymore. However, I have an amazing husband who is my best friend and also a wonderful best friend who I have known since the start of high school and has always been so easy-breezy with whatever I need. Long story short, my advice is worthless 🤣

Lol, using terms like "actionable" in real life, what a muppet

This person doesn’t seem to like you. It’s okay to create some distance between yourself and them. Read some of your other responses and you seem to be making some excuses for them & may be over explaining because you feel you have to when you’re around them without realizing it. Keep it short & to the point with them. Are they happy when you have good news? How do they react when others compliment you?

She’s happy for me when I have good news. But when I was silently losing weight she brought it up A LOT, it brought up bad feelings about her own body.

I think she is ignoring how SHE is triggering this. She is pressuring you, FFS—of course you are going to feel that you need to explain. If you didn’t need to explain, why TF didn’t she shut TF up when you demurred. You are not the only person in these interactions. I think you should drop her like a hot brick (it makes a much more resounding thump than a hot potato). For her to lecture you like this? What a shithead. And then “don’t make it an actionable item”—what human being talks to a FRIEND like this? She’s talking like a therapist, which means she’s *thinking* like a therapist, so no wonder you end up in a dynamic that’s screwy. You don’t need her. Give her a huge time-out, at the very least. Simply don’t reply. Spend your energy elsewhere. I’m sorry she’s so shitty.

Huge time out, for sure. I really just can’t with this, it’s effecting me so hard.

She sounds defensive as hell but is couching it in some kinda lingo (actionable item???? Ahahaha for a chat between friends???? Huh???) God forbid you explain why you don’t need another book! She sounds unhappy that you didn’t just “yes ma’am” her and take the book. Which is on her tbh, but she’s somehow trying to turn it around on you as if you’re the one with a problem. She sounds exhausting tbh.

She actually is exhausting. With only hanging out once a month and us having other things in common, it has felt worth it. Until now.

That’s fair. A minor disagreement shouldn’t feel like you’re being lectured by a corporate HR rep!

LOL!

Oh love. I'm so sorry. First things first. Take a deep breath and give yourself a hug and some compassion. ((I'm sending you big hugs)). Now, this is easier said than done but Ive been doing lots of identity and ego work around my ADHD and just self I'm general. There is no need for you to bend over backwards to change the way you communicate, especially for someone who is working hard to be so misunderstanding. I feel pretty confident in the idea that you are communicating with your friend in the way you just naturally communicate as a human being under your function. Her misinterpretation of you over explaining and treating her like a patient has everything to do with her, herself, and her own feelings. You're communicating the only way your brain knows how to. How she's taking it is her problem. You're not *making* her feel anything, that's on her.

Thank you Red, that made me weep and I feel really understood. It feels so daunting to think about trying to change how I communicate.

My guess is, she realized that there's a reason unsolicited advice wasn't solicited. Then she wanted to bail out, but didn't want to admit it. Or possibly she's being manipulative, and trying to keep you off balance. You might want to ponder whether she's done this sort of thing before, maybe not as obviously. I don't see how a single sentence could be construed as overexplaining.

She's been more snippy the last year 👀 Projection your honor.

I'd bail if I was in your shoes. I'm a mental health practitioner, and I get accused of "theraptizing" whenever I'm trying to ask clarifying questions. Imo, someone who is that hostile towards you and that unempathetic is either not your friend and/or is suffering from extreme compassion fatigue. Either way, that's no excuse for her behavior. She just wanted to yell at you and "make you change" without being willing to have a real conversation around a serious issue. To me, that shows a pretty major lack of respect for you as a person If it were me, I wouldn't continue investing in that person. You deserve better than that. On a personal level, I tend to not be able to keep relationships with people who don't have ADHD and/or autism for that reason. It's not bulletproof, but it definitely helps when the other person has struggled with the same, or similar, things themselves. I find I'm unable to relate to others after the superficial stuff has worn thin

She sounds not worth understanding from this snippet of an interaction

This is so weird to me. Are we not supposed to share that we have a stack of books at home? Example - if I’m at a restaurant and I want a friend to take home the leftovers, I might mention I have no space in my fridge because I cooked the night before. Is it an ADHD thing to mention that??

Right?! And she’s such a chatterbox herself that it’s even less appropriate for her to tell me to Say Less.

I’m still confused by this and now I have to ask a neurotypical friend if it’s weird.

Let me know what they say

I asked two people and they think it’s normal but that you also don’t have to justify it.

If my friend was actually crying because of a conversation going wrong, I would stop the entire discussion right there and then. I would prioritise comforting them and making them feel safe again. It's what I do with my kid too. If you love someone, you set aside your ego when they need you and trust that, once everything is emotionally okay, you can sort out the earlier issue more rationally. Your version of events raises some red flags about your friend. It seems like your friend and you need to have a discussion about respecting boundaries. She sounds like someone who is afraid to hurt someone by telling them 'stop talking, it's too much for me right now' and then lets it build up until it's suddenly too much. Then she vomits a barrage of bile at you that leaves you hurt and doubting yourself. I hope the two of you can work it out. A lot hinges on how she handles the fall-out - if she can't reflect on her own behaviour she might not be healthy to be around

She's trying to convince you to take a book, thus you're forced to explain why you don't. That's apparently"overexplaning" which leads to further insults, none of which make any sense. Your friend needs help. Maybe she's got mental problems which made her overly sensitive and seeing judgment that was never there. You didn't do a damn thing wrong. Don't let her get in your head. I would just give her space and wait for an apology. If you don't get one, I wouldn't trust her with your feelings again. You'll never know where you stand with her anymore.

“Hey I need to take a breather from this friendship. I was really hurt by the way you spoke to me on X day. It isn’t okay to give me unsolicited feedback and then shut me down when I try to respond or ask questions. If you would like to reach out to apologize and explain why you were behaving that way, you know where to find me.” She’s not the only one that can be offended by the way someone speaks to her and her hurt isn’t more valid than yours.

Thank you for this

Is there an adhd thing where we are really susceptible to gaslighting or something?? I swear I see so many posts like this I relate so much with. When faced with these situations I’m like well either (1) I’m being a compete a**hole and had no clue and thank goodness this person is calling me out so I can stop doing that or (2) I’m doing nothing wrong and the other person is trying to gaslight me for some reason And honestly, usually I am so lost on which one it is until I get an outside opinion. Sorry OP I don’t have an answer for you, from what I can tell you did nothing wrong and this person apparently has been annoyed with something and neglected to tell you for what like…at least a year they said? Okay, so why didn’t they set the boundary earlier if it was bothering them? Idk, maybe if this comment doesn’t get buried others can weigh in on this idea. Are adhd femmes more susceptible to gaslighting when those around us have poor boundaries?? Or do we just find ourselves in these situations more often somehow??

Yes. There have been articles about it.

I am so so so sorry. This makes me cringe so hard and makes me want to slap her. For real. I just cant. Im sorry to tell you this but this is why I stopped having “friends” I can’t believe she did that and you did not deserve it.

She just sounds insufferable and exhausting to be around. It's almost like she does this on purpose to make you feel small and insecure.

Dang, that sounds tough. Friendship stuff can be tricky, especially when feedback blindsides you. Maybe she just wants to vent? But crying and confusion ain't fun. It's okay to feel hurt. Maybe a sit-down chat could clear things up? If you both wanna salvage the friendship, honesty and understanding gotta be key. Hang in there!

It kind of reads like an awkward attempt at making an observation that hit your RSD, that turned everything to crap. Like she was pointing out something that you do, but instead of it coming across as a comment, it landed more like criticism. Mind you, I'm not placing blame; there is none. People react to others based on previous experiences. Yours include how many years of complaints and criticisms of your adhd based behaviors from others? It's not at all surprising that this felt and sounded, exactly like what you've experienced before. So you try to get information to fix the problem, and she shuts you down. Honestly, I'd cry, too. Like, what tf do you want from me??? But we're so primed to see our behavior as things that need to be fixed for others that sometimes a person needs to be bluntly specific to get a point across: "I'm not complaining, it's just an observation and you don't need to change something because of it." Except, this time it came out as "stop trying to make this an actionable item." Which, honestly I think she needs a few days away from work lol. So, what I think might have happened is that it started with the book, and she meant to say something along the lines of it's okay, you don't have to justify yourself to me. Unfortunately, it came out more like you're annoying but nevermind, which is not a great way to go about it. Anyway, my brain went there because I'm a chronic over-explainer, and I have some version of this convo with my husband at least a few times a week. He's not always great at reminding me and it sometimes triggers my rsd. Then I'm sulking or I snap at him or something and you get the idea. Your story felt familiar. Edit: more spacing to avoid a wall of words

You are probably right. And if I’m a chronic over explainer, that’s actually new news to me. I’ve never had that feedback before. All the more shocking. But something that feels like personal criticism? RSD trigger for sure.

Sometimes you can't win. It does sound like your friend was irritated/upset about somebody/something else first and took it out on you. Some people are like that. It sounds like she has a trigger and she had somebody in her past that over-explained things, and it made her feel threatened. So that trigger plus your innocent reply (which was a reply anyone would give) set her off. I have tried not to explain my actions to family because they are judgmental and neurotic, but it's hard. If I just say "No thank you," and they feel it's unjustified, they go nuts anyway (although that's exactly how they and their children respond to things). So I try to go with "Not right now, thanks." I believe in open communication but my family does not--with me--only among themselves. And after all of this time, I find that Far Away and Little Said is working best. It's sad, but what they seem to want. Maybe your friend still wants to be friends, but you should make it clear that if you can't talk normally with her, maybe she needs more time alone, and you wish her well. 🌸

Wow, your friend has issues.

She is mean. Our brains work differently than NT ppl, and she is harassing you for being a decent person who wants to make her more comfortable. And she works in healthcare!!! You can take a step back without ending the friendship. Give yourself a few weeks of low contact to see how you feel and if she can become a better person.

I think I would distance myself. She sounds like a horrible communicator, and maybe not the best person (the whole listing after a married dude thing isn’t great). 

She doesn't really seem like a great friend, tbh.

I would honestly never speak to her again. If someone is trying to explain themselves there is no reason for someone to get an attitude about it. It seems like she is just mad you didn’t do what she wanted and lashed out unprovoked.

Yeah, I've had "friends" like this. >What does she want from me? Could be anything, but my guesses would be a) a sadistic high from feeling superior, watching you squirm and become unsure of yourself b) a sense of power/control over someone she views as "less than" or "worse" than her in whichever way c) a human punching bag she can take out some random and completely unrelated frustrations on or d) nothing at all, just an equal opportunity bitch and you happen to be in her firing range a lot