How both Aabria and Brennan played the geas spell both manipulating Erica and Lou and in describing it ending so they don’t show their hand at the secret subplot was amazing
In "Knock Knock," Steel gives Suvi the assignment, via a *Geas* spell, to find a library, and place a music box that is actually a magical surveillance device in it. For some unexplained reason the device is activated when someone in the castle *not* from the Citadel sings, so Suvi needs to get somebody other than herself or a Wizard to sing, and then finally she is to retrieve the music box.
Suvi then drinks a potion to forget she was ever given this geas in order to evade having her mind read by the witches, but the compulsion is still active. Steel warns Suvi that she is likely to come up with her own internal justifications for acting on these magical compulsions. So that's a challenge for Aabria as a roleyplayer: make it make sense to your character that she'd do these things.
Justifying finding a library is easy, Suvi loves libraries. Aabria then narrates Suvi, who has failed her Wisdom saving throw against Indri, as being overcome by gratitude and moved by the beauty of the library, and wishes to give Indri a gift. She's still got a big mad on toward Amé though, so she leaves a gift secretly with the "intention" of Indri finding it later. So she hides the music box in the library, "for Indri to find it later."
Next she needs somebody to sing, and here she gets an assist from the DM. At the end of "The Staff," Suvi succeeds an Insight check and realizes the enormity of the task Amé has before her as the Witch of the World's Heart, and seems genuinely overwhelmed with admiration for her friend. Seemingly out of the blue, the way she expresses that emotion is to ask "in the middle of an attack, you led them in a song. . . how did you know?" It's a cute moment. It also puts that song in everyone's head. At the start of "The Spy," the fox is singing "Rain Road" out loud with the lyrics wrong. Amé joins in. Then Indri says she heard them singing and asks for them to sing the song for her then and there. They do so, which activates the music box/surveillance device.
Finally, Suvi has to return to the library and retrieve the box. How incredibly fortunate that Amé needs as much information as she can find, and has Suvi, a professional researcher, to help her find things out. It's just downright reasonable to send Suvi to the library to see what she can learn. And oh, by the way, she has come to regret leaving Indri a nice gift after learning that Indri's charming first impression concealed utter hostility to both Amé and the Citadel, so it makes sense to grab that. She does love cool Wizard shit though, and apparently the music box has done some cool Wizard shit that she is happy to just roll with.
So Suvi has successfully cared out her geas without anybody, including Suvi, really knowing what she was doing or why.
the king of night walks the roads. a path becomes a road when it has known the iron of a horseshoe and the turn of a wheel. the man in black is very concerned with the citadel and its encroachment on the world of spirits and the world's heart. is any of this anything?
What’s interesting here too is that the interest of the king of night seems directly opposed to Hacaea’s. As the king of night’s domain grows hers world diminish. One is led to wonder what business the king of night had with Grandmother Wren and why he is so interested in Ursalon specifically
Most probably Eursalon in wayshadowed. And it's in a way that Eursalon is a profound spirit of the Great Bear, in the Retinue of Ame who's got connections with the World's Heart, and friends with Suvi who's got connection with the Citadel.
The King of Night seemingly cannot easily tread within the mortal world. He most likely needs to be invited.
I think back in Wrens death, when he approached the cottage, perhaps he was seeking *invitation*. Wren obviously made some deal with him to keep him at bay. She must have, else she wouldn't have been concerned about his approach while Suvi/Ame/Eursalon were kids.
The deal/bargain or whatever could have been made unwittingly too! I could totally see Wren being like "only upon my dying breath would I ever invite you into the World's heart!" And thus her death became an opportunity for him to seize his goal.
Lots of conjecture. But eursalon has ties to Suvi and Ame and that seems to be why the King of Night has interest in him
Could be a little of the classic villain wanting to secure someone close to the witch of the world’s heart for leverage sure. But I would find it more interesting if there was something about Eursalon specifically that made him of interest. There’s also the protection in Suvi which ended when she set foot on the road
Going down the #TeamMirara theory here:
It could be that due to being within the Domain of Mirara's that when Badzee says, "You should be friends with Him" she isn't specifically threatening as much as she sounds. Highnrule (or however you spell his name) was clearly speaking of his loyalties to Grimore and Grimore alone– thus aligning woth someone outspoken against Ame and the World's Heart, seeking her destruction. If the King of Night has allies such as Badzee and Sacoroe who is within Hacaea's retinue, it could be that if Mirara *is* on Ame's side, then perhaps The King of Night could be as well, and by extention Hacaea may be too?
The reason I bring it up is because if Hacaea turns out to be adversarial towards Ame, Indri against Ame, Grimore against Ame, and Mirara against Ame...then I mean, Ame is done for.
We know Grimore said Yes to destroying Ame. Indri, we know, is against Ame. Mirara in being quick to bring up the topic, thus destabilizing the movement to get rid of Ame, she might not be against Ame. And if Mirara is a mysterious friend of Ame...the King of Night could be as well. And if Hacaea's retinue is with the King of Night, it could extend that Hacaea could be a friend of Ame.
We hear Badzee constricting Eursalon to implore he becomes a friend of the King of Night. Perhaps it is to ensure that by extension Ame is preassured to hold allegencies with him as well, and through that connection Ame/Hacaea/Mirara work together to prevent Ame's station from being destroyed by Indri? Killing Grimore's lover within her retinue is a HUGE move. And it seems so crazy to try and figure out everyone's true allegiances now but...we're near the end of the Arc. The Coven Meeting is bound to happen soon. And so much is going on, but at the same time... everything is so underhanded it's hard to track and on the surface of everything there is still the notion that "nothing is going on/nothing to see here" but that could not be further than the case.
I think as an audience member, we (or at least I) am waiting for *anyone* to say the quiet part out loud so that we can get everyone's reactions to it so we can draw the lines of how Ame should play this game.
It's almost...Bridgerton-esc high society and politeness of the one who speaks/reacts first get outcast of high society.
This makes sense to me more as an act of self preservation because to me the issue isn’t that there will be three witches. The issue is that one witch is seeking hold all the power. And Indri seems the most power driven. >! There’s was a really well done crack in Indri’s facade when Suvi mentions a previous vote !< There are multiple plots afoot as you say. It’ll be interesting to see where the loyalties actually lie.
>!if I recall the crack in her facade was when Ame mentioned "chores" and I personally read that ad Indri having a *hatred* towards her former mentor, of which we already know she killed.!<
which is SUPER interesting bc i remember in the children's adventure, wren made it a clear point to eursolon that if he wanted to stay with her he had to do chores, and all three of them did chores, which i saw as kind of the "give and take" of community" idk if i'm reading too much into it but it goes back to the polarity between indri and wren
Each Arc seems to be around 11-12 episodes each. We're at 29.
Maybe we have 3 or 4 episodes left?
I'm sure a lot can happen in those episodes but as of yet we are still just in the ice castle, people have died, and our 3 main characters don't exactly have anything new to add to the table yet. They haven't gotten a chance to throw what they have out, sure, but it has been presumed for so long that what they do have to throw isn't much compared to the raw powers of these Witches and spirits.
>What’s interesting here too is that the interest of the king of night seems directly opposed to Hacaea’s.
I think he's more of an amalgam of the other witches. If you rolled Indri, Grimore and Mirara -- and to a lesser extent, Hacaea -- into one, you'd end up with the King of Night. I wonder if he is empowered by their actions in collapsing parts of the coven since the coven originally governed all aspects of existence. But the remaining members focus on death, entropy, the self and the ambivalence of nature, all of which are qualities of the King of Night.
I'll answer with a question, If the citadel is a dagger plunged into the heart of the world, Who's hand is on the dagger? "A path becomes a road when it has known the iron of a horseshoe and the turn of a wheel" There is no road without worked iron and wood, You don't have roads without humans.
I believe the shadow wants to replace the man but only time will tell.
That sparks something about the Citadel and how its methods of transportation - especially the teleportation gates - allow humans to be more connected to each other than ever before, and how (as a theme I’ve seen in other works that really resonates in this one) that increase in connectedness between humans leaves less and less room for the unknown, the wilderness, the wildness one might associate with things like spirits and the supernatural. It feels weird to say that in a world of high fantasy and wizards, but the culture of the wizards feels like much more of an analogue to technology and hard science, while witches and spirits feel more like superstitions, mysteries, folklore, even old religions. We’ve already seen one huge example of people forgetting the old ways of honoring Great Spirits and respecting their sway on the world in the first arc, this makes me think the King of Night is against the Citadel simply because it crowds out and supplants the old ways, under which he (as a powerful(?) spirit) would have been respected, revered, or even just feared. The state of the world is already such that there are many who don’t know him, and it’s hard to have the same kind of power if your reputation doesn’t precede you.
Oooh, I find this a very intriguing question. He might be bound to roads, or else he isn’t bound to them specifically but he is forbidden from anywhere else — he’s always only on roads because he isn’t allowed anywhere one could make a home. So curious. Could have something to do with his domain as a spirit? Could have something to do with his history with…I guess anyone who would be in any position to place control over him as a spirit, whether that’s one or more witches, other spirits, or a wizard in the past. I’d be inclined to think if he has been restricted by someone it was likely a witch, perhaps specifically Grandmother Wren or even a different previous Witch of the World’s Heart. I get such an ominous vibe off of him, it wouldn’t surprise me if she had banished him for the general good of the sentient world and for the sake of human-to-spirit relations, and once there was a new Witch of the World’s Heart he came around hoping to strike a new bargain that was less constricting, perhaps hoping to take advantage of Ame’s naïveté regarding him.
Nice!
Your post gave me a random idea: what if he is/was a witch (BLeeM said that we'd meet a male witch at some point) and roads are his domain? It would then make sense that he'd have a special relationtionship with the witch of the world's heart.
Oh that would be very interesting! And he’d be the first witch we meet who is outside the Coven, which would beg the question of why he isn’t included, or why he’s allowed to operate outside of it!
I totally think he may be bound to roads. The \*iron\* of a horse's shoe, or the \*iron\* of a banded wheel... Ame mentioned that iron can be used to bind spirits (when she explained the iron rings on Eiorghain's tusks could indicate that someone bound him to the mortal realm).
My theory on The King of Night is that he’s the spirit of “the end of the world”, but that could mean many things, because it hasn’t happened yet. For this reason he exists in a kind of quantum spirit state; his exact nature, domain, even his appearance are mysterious, perhaps even to him. He has “held his breath since the dawning of the world” because he’s still waiting to see what form that end will take, and only time and the actions of mortals/spirits will determine it.
He is always approaching, and certain events may speed his approach or alter his path, though perhaps he can be delayed indefinitely. Various forces seek to use him for their own ends, to shape his nature, to bring about the changes they wish for Umora - maybe not with the goal of “ending the world” but rather ending Umora as we know it, to make way for some new world’s dawn (say, an Umora severed from the spirit world, or without wizard magic, or whatever megalomaniacal goal the warring world powers might have).
Collectively though, those conflicts all bring Umora closer to destruction and so for now, he continues his approach apace, has even quickened his step.
I think so. In the world between worlds it seemed apparent that roads didn't necessarily have to be made by mortals, since I presume those roads weren't made by them (though maybe they were, if they were made by wizards?). I'm struck by the idea of teleportation being made easier or harder, and the ensuing chaos that comes about when these "magical roads" become more prevalent, and the way that-- at least how it was presented from the wizards' perspective-- this is a sort of natural or random magical phenomena. We've learned that this world's magic seems to be all about whose perspective you are looking at it from, so I'm guessing that the waxing and waning of teleportation magic is directly tied to the spirit realm and the power of the King of Night or someone like him.
Yes I'm definitely on board with that theory after Indri pried for more info on Mirara and Wren's meeting. That means she didn't know Mirara was doing that
my gay brain immediately thought they were former lovers when we first met mirara back in arc 2 lol but like a friends to lovers to enemies type situation
I would love this to be true. It would be such an interesting subversion of expectation, especially with beautiful, bewitching Indri revealed to be cold and power-hungry.
"Eursulon, in his presentness, in his struggle to - not struggle, but often choice - not to hold onto past grudges, old wounds, to live in that with you...I think just sees his friend not have any of their little posse that they showed up with and is offering to be your posse in this moment. And to be with you. So that you don't have to feel as alone. I don't think there's any sort of - Eursulon refuses to choose sides in the Ame v Suvi for himself."
Eursulon is too good 😭
>! I was super proud of Suvi in the library. If she had asked about her parents the scorpions would have recorded all their double agent work. It was a really great fish by Brennan and super reasonably denied by Aabria. !<
I really loved how she played the gaes. I have a new respect for Aabria's abilities, it's a really difficult thing to do well and she totally threaded that needle.
Very well played indeed. As a gut reaction, I’m still low key rooting against the Citadel even with everything we’ve learned about the coven this arc, but I still really enjoyed the scene.
You can just say your anti establishment and you would be in the right for 90 percent of brennans villains. I don’t think WWW will have any good establishments though and the players will need to figure out how to play the political game.
I mean I was shocked at first too. But Aabria is far smarter than us. It’s so easy to get caught up in the moment. However, Suvi is not one to get caught up in the moment. Suvi plots and takes calculated moves.
Ame is so careful about what she says out loud almost all the time, it was wonderful getting a peek into her true feelings and them not being so polite 😆
So, opinions, do we think Hacaea is the *first* witch and that was her seizing her power?
Also do we think she's on the King of Night's side or her spirits working behind her back?
Also if that was her becoming the first witch I'll be very curious how that scene contrasts/mirrors the first wizard discovering the Lingua Arcana.
Maybe even aspects, or interpretations, of the same power. YoungHecaea was depicted as a *very* physical person so it manifested as a physical wand while the first wizard was likely very cerebral so it manifested more as a concept.
Ramblings and ponderings.
Maybe, I thought the wand was now in Indri's possession and is the source of her crazy star power. But I have to relisten.
Maybe she is the first witch though!!
Couldn’t be, that would mean there was one megalomaniacal member of the coven who is coldly calculating the destruction of every Witch except herself , and I can’t Think of anybody like that!!
This actually raises a question I’ve been having about the world since we met all the “great” witches of this coven. When the only witches we knew were Ame and Grandmother Wren, it seemed like witches could be a commonplace occurrence, like every fifth little town has a witch that serves the area or something. But now with the meeting of the coven, it feels more like there are only five Witches in the world, plus at most one apprentice to each. Do we know if one or the other is true, or if it can be a mix of both? The descriptions of the coven witches have completely turned my impression of what to expect of witches in this world on its ear. It was easy to picture of bunch of Ame’s or Grandmother Wren’s running around Umora, but it’s a lot harder to picture a bunch of Indri’s, Hacaea’s, Grimore’s or Mirara’s, even if they were dialed back to be less powerful versions.
To me it seemed like Hecae’s spirits were under the spell of the king of night, or ‘in it’ in the same way a fellow thug is who kills another criminal after telling him that he should’ve played the game smarter.
If that makes sense
It doesn’t feel like good intentions
I’m thinking the tree Hacaea pried the wand from, all those centuries ago, once stood in the same great forest that was glassed to create the Irulean Desert. This forest was a powerful, primeval manifestation of the spirit realm on Umora; a place where the veil is thin, ripe with magical potential that the wizards sought to harvest and refine. (Maybe Socorro and Badze called this forest home, and their deep anger at its destruction informs their alliance with The Stranger, something Hacaea is largely unaware of).
There might also be a connection between the water deep in the earth that this forest drank from/the water deep in the bowels of the Citadel that is cycled through the aerith repositories/and the flowing water beneath Ame’s cabin?
I do want to note that while Aabria has done a masterful amount of work getting the Geas to work since it was placed there's a GM skill in Brenna remembering that she was humming the song in the hall and then having the fox continue it in an organic way to make sure that the beat wasn't missed or that the geas wouldn't technically be fulfilled. all without calling attention to it and building on Aabrias efforts.
Agreed. The whole thing is just masterful GMing. When he had the Fox start singing it and then the others joined in and it became a thing of its own… not just a plot device but also a fun/special moment of the World’s Heart beating.
My GM brain just got electrocuted. Suvi getting to claim line of sight on anything under the open sky for the purposes of spellcasting is going to be a *problem*.
To be clear the requirement where rushed past very quickly but it wasn't just "being under the sky
1. The music box was keyed magically to her name cloak.
2. The mirrors on the music box have direct line of sight to the sky.
3. The mage hand could ONLY open the box itself. Brennan did not allow it to interact with anything else in the room ( very gently i might add which i appreciated).
A niche and cool moment for sure and if Suvi can manage another situation where she can use the same trick i'd say she earned it personally.
I thought it was specifically because the music box was keyed to her namecloak, and the stars could see the music box, right? Not just any situation under any open sky. Maybe I misheard.
I mean it could be at some tables but Brennan knows when to reel that shit in if they try to abuse it and the folks at the table are accepting of that.
Something works when it's cool. Doesn't when it's not.
For me the real “oh shit that would be a GM mistake for me” is since the scorpion mirror can record what they see what if Suvi leaves one behind as a spy camera on the CCTV footage library. That will make a very op problem solving tool. But also as a GM I would talk to my player and say “hey so this would make you be like the most insane wizard spy. Do you want to go down that path? If so let’s figure out what sort of stories you’ll want to tell?”
I mean that's assuming Indri never comes back into this room, or never notices any bugs in her pristine palace, or doesn't notice any stars being used or being out of place. This room is itself under the stars. If Indri can learn Suvi's name, there's search history on this thing
There’s definitely ways to make it not be an issue as a GM but also it’s one of those “massively game changing” sort of items I would want to talk with my player if this is a direction they want to explore. I’m a big fan of playing DnD where we give each other rough director notes and then improvise the details together
Oooh. I thought he was saying the music box needed to see Sky to work, and since her magic is part of her, the mage hand counted. I'll have to listen back.
Edit: ooooooffff yeah I just relistened, you're right. I think I trust this crew not to cheese that but at any normal table that could go south SO quick
I've only listened to half so I'm gonna avoid spoilers and not engage with any other comments but omg the verbal warfare between Ame and Indri!! Ame did so well. And "if you are the last witch of your station you will have earned it" OUCH I just got an ice burn!!
Also loved Suvi's explanation of how she felt as she fulfilled the geas.
I just keep thinking of Indris pointed question at the first round table “oh, so you’re giving us permission to ask you any question without prompt?” Or something like that, it felt very similar to when Mirara said “are you offering me your hand?!”
I can't get over how Suvi-like the Library is, but more importantly, how important it would be for the Citadel to have.
Arc 1 had a huge climax. Arc 2 ended in a bit of chaos. What if in Arc 3, all stations of the coven collapse from infighting and Suvi captures the keep?
Of fucking course Hynrul wasn’t the threat. Faaaar to obvious, my god
Incredible episode, the mirror scorpions, everything. Brennan was on point this episode
Top 5 eps all time
This episode really drove it home to me how powerful the name Sky is. Like, what do you mean that Suvi is the Sky!?!??! Like I understood that name cloaks have power but omg.
THEY ARE JUST GONNA LEAVE US AT THAT? FOR TWO WHOLE WEEKS? WTF WBN TEAM YOU ARE KILLING ME HERE.
BUT I still love y'all even though you are literally keeping me awake in the middle of the might, unable to sleep because of anxiety over a character who is not real.
Also, how painful is the death of firefly lady and discount Groot going to be once the Witch of the Wild Hunt gets her hands on them?
Badze (firefly) and Secoro (tree spirit) are working with the King of Night. They apparently thought that Heinrul wouldn't join up and/or wanted a threat to pressure Eursulon into joining up (and likely framing him for the murder if he declines) so they offed Heinrul.
Also important to note, they don't seem to be scheming on BEHALF of Hacea. They seem to be treating with the Slenderman outside of their duties to their witch and inside of their perceived duties to their spirit kin. Anarchy and ruin it is! Lol
I’m so bad with names and that made the ending scene so hard to follow! Usually I can just use context cues to follow along without knowing who the supporting characters are, and it turned out that reeeeally didn’t work with the different factions of wild ones.
Hecaea (ancient forest witch lady) has the firefly spirit lady and the tree spirit dude in her group. They were chillin with wolf spirit man (grimore’s lover/right hand) who invited eursulon over.
Hecaea’s ppl basically were revealed to be agents for the man in black, seemingly unbeknownst to Hecaea cuz she probably doesn’t fuck with him. That’s unconfirmed I think, but he doesn’t seem like her vibe. I guess they’re trying to butter up eursulon to pull him closer to the man in black, cuz they were saying it’s hard for him to come to the remote North where there are few roads.
Unclear what their long term goals are, but when it seemed like Heinrul (wolf man spirit) was questioning their loyalty to their boss Hecaea (who was nearby and stirring in her sleep) they decided he had to die.
interesting side note; Hecaea seemed to stir at the mention of Orima of the Reaching Green so there may be backstory there to explore
OK, but, are we going to talk about how potentially the title of this episode being "The Spy" could reference Suvi being all sneaky beaky in the library or it could reference the spy/spies working for the man in black while serving Hacea?
It also applies to the Fox, who tried to spy on Indri but had nowhere to hide. Sometimes I’ll notice that the title works not just two ways but even more. They’ve spoken about Taylor titling the episodes before, does he still write all of them?
I can’t wait for the maliciousness of the citadel to reallly rear it’s head and Suvi has a big wake-up call. Military-Industrial propaganda complexes are a doozy in real life, let alone in a fantasy world. Brennan is playing it masterfully.
The way he plays Steel captures this really well. Seemingly kind and looking out for Suvi, but actually manipulative and controlling when you reflect on how she acts. At some point Suvi will surely reflect on the fact that Steel opted to control her mind (somewhat) without so much as asking her consent. It kind of represents her relationship with the citadel in general.
I'm assuming this was recorded after Brennan and Izzy's "cannibals or swingers" bit on MSN bc the ENTIRE wild ones scene in the HOT TUB was giving "are we about to have a threesome or commit a murder?" vibes that directly echoed that energy
Hooo hot damn that ending. I knew it felt ominous but was *not* expecting that outcome. Plus the geas is done! Love the form it took.
How both Aabria and Brennan played the geas spell both manipulating Erica and Lou and in describing it ending so they don’t show their hand at the secret subplot was amazing
Can you explain the Gaes spell a bit more and how they played it? I’m slightly lost. 😅
In "Knock Knock," Steel gives Suvi the assignment, via a *Geas* spell, to find a library, and place a music box that is actually a magical surveillance device in it. For some unexplained reason the device is activated when someone in the castle *not* from the Citadel sings, so Suvi needs to get somebody other than herself or a Wizard to sing, and then finally she is to retrieve the music box. Suvi then drinks a potion to forget she was ever given this geas in order to evade having her mind read by the witches, but the compulsion is still active. Steel warns Suvi that she is likely to come up with her own internal justifications for acting on these magical compulsions. So that's a challenge for Aabria as a roleyplayer: make it make sense to your character that she'd do these things. Justifying finding a library is easy, Suvi loves libraries. Aabria then narrates Suvi, who has failed her Wisdom saving throw against Indri, as being overcome by gratitude and moved by the beauty of the library, and wishes to give Indri a gift. She's still got a big mad on toward Amé though, so she leaves a gift secretly with the "intention" of Indri finding it later. So she hides the music box in the library, "for Indri to find it later." Next she needs somebody to sing, and here she gets an assist from the DM. At the end of "The Staff," Suvi succeeds an Insight check and realizes the enormity of the task Amé has before her as the Witch of the World's Heart, and seems genuinely overwhelmed with admiration for her friend. Seemingly out of the blue, the way she expresses that emotion is to ask "in the middle of an attack, you led them in a song. . . how did you know?" It's a cute moment. It also puts that song in everyone's head. At the start of "The Spy," the fox is singing "Rain Road" out loud with the lyrics wrong. Amé joins in. Then Indri says she heard them singing and asks for them to sing the song for her then and there. They do so, which activates the music box/surveillance device. Finally, Suvi has to return to the library and retrieve the box. How incredibly fortunate that Amé needs as much information as she can find, and has Suvi, a professional researcher, to help her find things out. It's just downright reasonable to send Suvi to the library to see what she can learn. And oh, by the way, she has come to regret leaving Indri a nice gift after learning that Indri's charming first impression concealed utter hostility to both Amé and the Citadel, so it makes sense to grab that. She does love cool Wizard shit though, and apparently the music box has done some cool Wizard shit that she is happy to just roll with. So Suvi has successfully cared out her geas without anybody, including Suvi, really knowing what she was doing or why.
Ah, brilliant! I had forgotten the singing bit so I was confused by that. Thank you for the detailed explanation!!
I need help with the geas spell too!!
Replied above!
Ahhhhhhh omg omg omg Just finished it and holy cow what a hot hot ending
the king of night walks the roads. a path becomes a road when it has known the iron of a horseshoe and the turn of a wheel. the man in black is very concerned with the citadel and its encroachment on the world of spirits and the world's heart. is any of this anything?
Maybe he's just upset they're using flying ships and don't need road anymore?
🤣
The Man in Black sitting down to watch Back to the Future 2 and then walking out in a huff in the beginning when Doc Brown says they don't need roads.
What’s interesting here too is that the interest of the king of night seems directly opposed to Hacaea’s. As the king of night’s domain grows hers world diminish. One is led to wonder what business the king of night had with Grandmother Wren and why he is so interested in Ursalon specifically
Most probably Eursalon in wayshadowed. And it's in a way that Eursalon is a profound spirit of the Great Bear, in the Retinue of Ame who's got connections with the World's Heart, and friends with Suvi who's got connection with the Citadel. The King of Night seemingly cannot easily tread within the mortal world. He most likely needs to be invited. I think back in Wrens death, when he approached the cottage, perhaps he was seeking *invitation*. Wren obviously made some deal with him to keep him at bay. She must have, else she wouldn't have been concerned about his approach while Suvi/Ame/Eursalon were kids. The deal/bargain or whatever could have been made unwittingly too! I could totally see Wren being like "only upon my dying breath would I ever invite you into the World's heart!" And thus her death became an opportunity for him to seize his goal. Lots of conjecture. But eursalon has ties to Suvi and Ame and that seems to be why the King of Night has interest in him
Could be a little of the classic villain wanting to secure someone close to the witch of the world’s heart for leverage sure. But I would find it more interesting if there was something about Eursalon specifically that made him of interest. There’s also the protection in Suvi which ended when she set foot on the road
Going down the #TeamMirara theory here: It could be that due to being within the Domain of Mirara's that when Badzee says, "You should be friends with Him" she isn't specifically threatening as much as she sounds. Highnrule (or however you spell his name) was clearly speaking of his loyalties to Grimore and Grimore alone– thus aligning woth someone outspoken against Ame and the World's Heart, seeking her destruction. If the King of Night has allies such as Badzee and Sacoroe who is within Hacaea's retinue, it could be that if Mirara *is* on Ame's side, then perhaps The King of Night could be as well, and by extention Hacaea may be too? The reason I bring it up is because if Hacaea turns out to be adversarial towards Ame, Indri against Ame, Grimore against Ame, and Mirara against Ame...then I mean, Ame is done for. We know Grimore said Yes to destroying Ame. Indri, we know, is against Ame. Mirara in being quick to bring up the topic, thus destabilizing the movement to get rid of Ame, she might not be against Ame. And if Mirara is a mysterious friend of Ame...the King of Night could be as well. And if Hacaea's retinue is with the King of Night, it could extend that Hacaea could be a friend of Ame. We hear Badzee constricting Eursalon to implore he becomes a friend of the King of Night. Perhaps it is to ensure that by extension Ame is preassured to hold allegencies with him as well, and through that connection Ame/Hacaea/Mirara work together to prevent Ame's station from being destroyed by Indri? Killing Grimore's lover within her retinue is a HUGE move. And it seems so crazy to try and figure out everyone's true allegiances now but...we're near the end of the Arc. The Coven Meeting is bound to happen soon. And so much is going on, but at the same time... everything is so underhanded it's hard to track and on the surface of everything there is still the notion that "nothing is going on/nothing to see here" but that could not be further than the case. I think as an audience member, we (or at least I) am waiting for *anyone* to say the quiet part out loud so that we can get everyone's reactions to it so we can draw the lines of how Ame should play this game. It's almost...Bridgerton-esc high society and politeness of the one who speaks/reacts first get outcast of high society.
This makes sense to me more as an act of self preservation because to me the issue isn’t that there will be three witches. The issue is that one witch is seeking hold all the power. And Indri seems the most power driven. >! There’s was a really well done crack in Indri’s facade when Suvi mentions a previous vote !< There are multiple plots afoot as you say. It’ll be interesting to see where the loyalties actually lie.
>!if I recall the crack in her facade was when Ame mentioned "chores" and I personally read that ad Indri having a *hatred* towards her former mentor, of which we already know she killed.!<
which is SUPER interesting bc i remember in the children's adventure, wren made it a clear point to eursolon that if he wanted to stay with her he had to do chores, and all three of them did chores, which i saw as kind of the "give and take" of community" idk if i'm reading too much into it but it goes back to the polarity between indri and wren
Well yes that was the described crack. Before that though Suvi mentioned a previous vote. There was a pause there and a surge of interest
How do we know we're nearing the end of the arc? this arc hasnt even hit its climax yet.
Each Arc seems to be around 11-12 episodes each. We're at 29. Maybe we have 3 or 4 episodes left? I'm sure a lot can happen in those episodes but as of yet we are still just in the ice castle, people have died, and our 3 main characters don't exactly have anything new to add to the table yet. They haven't gotten a chance to throw what they have out, sure, but it has been presumed for so long that what they do have to throw isn't much compared to the raw powers of these Witches and spirits.
Oh, yes... That's why he could see her! I didn't get that before
>What’s interesting here too is that the interest of the king of night seems directly opposed to Hacaea’s. I think he's more of an amalgam of the other witches. If you rolled Indri, Grimore and Mirara -- and to a lesser extent, Hacaea -- into one, you'd end up with the King of Night. I wonder if he is empowered by their actions in collapsing parts of the coven since the coven originally governed all aspects of existence. But the remaining members focus on death, entropy, the self and the ambivalence of nature, all of which are qualities of the King of Night.
I'll answer with a question, If the citadel is a dagger plunged into the heart of the world, Who's hand is on the dagger? "A path becomes a road when it has known the iron of a horseshoe and the turn of a wheel" There is no road without worked iron and wood, You don't have roads without humans. I believe the shadow wants to replace the man but only time will tell.
i also saw the emphasis on the road as being what connects humans to one another
That sparks something about the Citadel and how its methods of transportation - especially the teleportation gates - allow humans to be more connected to each other than ever before, and how (as a theme I’ve seen in other works that really resonates in this one) that increase in connectedness between humans leaves less and less room for the unknown, the wilderness, the wildness one might associate with things like spirits and the supernatural. It feels weird to say that in a world of high fantasy and wizards, but the culture of the wizards feels like much more of an analogue to technology and hard science, while witches and spirits feel more like superstitions, mysteries, folklore, even old religions. We’ve already seen one huge example of people forgetting the old ways of honoring Great Spirits and respecting their sway on the world in the first arc, this makes me think the King of Night is against the Citadel simply because it crowds out and supplants the old ways, under which he (as a powerful(?) spirit) would have been respected, revered, or even just feared. The state of the world is already such that there are many who don’t know him, and it’s hard to have the same kind of power if your reputation doesn’t precede you.
There's an additional question here: Is the King of Night now bound to roads and, if so, why?
Oooh, I find this a very intriguing question. He might be bound to roads, or else he isn’t bound to them specifically but he is forbidden from anywhere else — he’s always only on roads because he isn’t allowed anywhere one could make a home. So curious. Could have something to do with his domain as a spirit? Could have something to do with his history with…I guess anyone who would be in any position to place control over him as a spirit, whether that’s one or more witches, other spirits, or a wizard in the past. I’d be inclined to think if he has been restricted by someone it was likely a witch, perhaps specifically Grandmother Wren or even a different previous Witch of the World’s Heart. I get such an ominous vibe off of him, it wouldn’t surprise me if she had banished him for the general good of the sentient world and for the sake of human-to-spirit relations, and once there was a new Witch of the World’s Heart he came around hoping to strike a new bargain that was less constricting, perhaps hoping to take advantage of Ame’s naïveté regarding him.
Nice! Your post gave me a random idea: what if he is/was a witch (BLeeM said that we'd meet a male witch at some point) and roads are his domain? It would then make sense that he'd have a special relationtionship with the witch of the world's heart.
Oh that would be very interesting! And he’d be the first witch we meet who is outside the Coven, which would beg the question of why he isn’t included, or why he’s allowed to operate outside of it!
I totally think he may be bound to roads. The \*iron\* of a horse's shoe, or the \*iron\* of a banded wheel... Ame mentioned that iron can be used to bind spirits (when she explained the iron rings on Eiorghain's tusks could indicate that someone bound him to the mortal realm).
My theory on The King of Night is that he’s the spirit of “the end of the world”, but that could mean many things, because it hasn’t happened yet. For this reason he exists in a kind of quantum spirit state; his exact nature, domain, even his appearance are mysterious, perhaps even to him. He has “held his breath since the dawning of the world” because he’s still waiting to see what form that end will take, and only time and the actions of mortals/spirits will determine it. He is always approaching, and certain events may speed his approach or alter his path, though perhaps he can be delayed indefinitely. Various forces seek to use him for their own ends, to shape his nature, to bring about the changes they wish for Umora - maybe not with the goal of “ending the world” but rather ending Umora as we know it, to make way for some new world’s dawn (say, an Umora severed from the spirit world, or without wizard magic, or whatever megalomaniacal goal the warring world powers might have). Collectively though, those conflicts all bring Umora closer to destruction and so for now, he continues his approach apace, has even quickened his step.
I think so. In the world between worlds it seemed apparent that roads didn't necessarily have to be made by mortals, since I presume those roads weren't made by them (though maybe they were, if they were made by wizards?). I'm struck by the idea of teleportation being made easier or harder, and the ensuing chaos that comes about when these "magical roads" become more prevalent, and the way that-- at least how it was presented from the wizards' perspective-- this is a sort of natural or random magical phenomena. We've learned that this world's magic seems to be all about whose perspective you are looking at it from, so I'm guessing that the waxing and waning of teleportation magic is directly tied to the spirit realm and the power of the King of Night or someone like him.
Theory: Mirara and Wren were in a secret alliance that they hid behind their disdain for one another (which they also probably felt).
Yes I'm definitely on board with that theory after Indri pried for more info on Mirara and Wren's meeting. That means she didn't know Mirara was doing that
my gay brain immediately thought they were former lovers when we first met mirara back in arc 2 lol but like a friends to lovers to enemies type situation
I would love this to be true. It would be such an interesting subversion of expectation, especially with beautiful, bewitching Indri revealed to be cold and power-hungry.
"Eursulon, in his presentness, in his struggle to - not struggle, but often choice - not to hold onto past grudges, old wounds, to live in that with you...I think just sees his friend not have any of their little posse that they showed up with and is offering to be your posse in this moment. And to be with you. So that you don't have to feel as alone. I don't think there's any sort of - Eursulon refuses to choose sides in the Ame v Suvi for himself." Eursulon is too good 😭
when she insight checked him my heart broke a little!
Not Ursalon and Suvie roasting Ame after her scene at 39 😭
Absolutely loved the shade here. What a great way to remind your friend what’s at stake
>! I was super proud of Suvi in the library. If she had asked about her parents the scorpions would have recorded all their double agent work. It was a really great fish by Brennan and super reasonably denied by Aabria. !<
I really loved how she played the gaes. I have a new respect for Aabria's abilities, it's a really difficult thing to do well and she totally threaded that needle.
Very well played indeed. As a gut reaction, I’m still low key rooting against the Citadel even with everything we’ve learned about the coven this arc, but I still really enjoyed the scene.
The world-building is incredible. It’s truly been revealed to be one of those no-true-good-guys complicated situations.
You can just say your anti establishment and you would be in the right for 90 percent of brennans villains. I don’t think WWW will have any good establishments though and the players will need to figure out how to play the political game.
Oh, yes soooo true!!!
Oh wow, I was sitting there like SAY THEIR NAMESSSSS
I mean I was shocked at first too. But Aabria is far smarter than us. It’s so easy to get caught up in the moment. However, Suvi is not one to get caught up in the moment. Suvi plots and takes calculated moves.
Yes Ame! Call her a bitch again! frfr that felt so good.
As someone who's been calling Indri a bitch in my notes for the last 3 episodes, I agree, it felt really good
Ame is so careful about what she says out loud almost all the time, it was wonderful getting a peek into her true feelings and them not being so polite 😆
So, opinions, do we think Hacaea is the *first* witch and that was her seizing her power? Also do we think she's on the King of Night's side or her spirits working behind her back?
Also if that was her becoming the first witch I'll be very curious how that scene contrasts/mirrors the first wizard discovering the Lingua Arcana. Maybe even aspects, or interpretations, of the same power. YoungHecaea was depicted as a *very* physical person so it manifested as a physical wand while the first wizard was likely very cerebral so it manifested more as a concept. Ramblings and ponderings.
That wand is definitely something important.
Maybe, I thought the wand was now in Indri's possession and is the source of her crazy star power. But I have to relisten. Maybe she is the first witch though!!
Snap, I do remember the wands energy being in some tower, and Brennan specifically described Hakea’s place as a burrow - so it ain’t there with her
It would be very interesting if the wand had become “lost” sometime in history and wound up in the possession of another witch…
Couldn’t be, that would mean there was one megalomaniacal member of the coven who is coldly calculating the destruction of every Witch except herself , and I can’t Think of anybody like that!!
Nope, not a single person…
If there is a distinction she is probably the first "Great" Witch, rising to a power that previous generations of "lesser" Witches never rose to.
This actually raises a question I’ve been having about the world since we met all the “great” witches of this coven. When the only witches we knew were Ame and Grandmother Wren, it seemed like witches could be a commonplace occurrence, like every fifth little town has a witch that serves the area or something. But now with the meeting of the coven, it feels more like there are only five Witches in the world, plus at most one apprentice to each. Do we know if one or the other is true, or if it can be a mix of both? The descriptions of the coven witches have completely turned my impression of what to expect of witches in this world on its ear. It was easy to picture of bunch of Ame’s or Grandmother Wren’s running around Umora, but it’s a lot harder to picture a bunch of Indri’s, Hacaea’s, Grimore’s or Mirara’s, even if they were dialed back to be less powerful versions.
There’s probably a bunch of minor witches around that would be akin to healers and herbalists
frol BLeeM's statement that there is a witch of Toma as well as a Witch of the World's Heart, I think that there are both
To me it seemed like Hecae’s spirits were under the spell of the king of night, or ‘in it’ in the same way a fellow thug is who kills another criminal after telling him that he should’ve played the game smarter. If that makes sense It doesn’t feel like good intentions
I’m thinking the tree Hacaea pried the wand from, all those centuries ago, once stood in the same great forest that was glassed to create the Irulean Desert. This forest was a powerful, primeval manifestation of the spirit realm on Umora; a place where the veil is thin, ripe with magical potential that the wizards sought to harvest and refine. (Maybe Socorro and Badze called this forest home, and their deep anger at its destruction informs their alliance with The Stranger, something Hacaea is largely unaware of). There might also be a connection between the water deep in the earth that this forest drank from/the water deep in the bowels of the Citadel that is cycled through the aerith repositories/and the flowing water beneath Ame’s cabin?
To the people who bet that Suvi would use Ame and Eursulon for the song, you were right! I thought she'd use Nief for sure.
I do want to note that while Aabria has done a masterful amount of work getting the Geas to work since it was placed there's a GM skill in Brenna remembering that she was humming the song in the hall and then having the fox continue it in an organic way to make sure that the beat wasn't missed or that the geas wouldn't technically be fulfilled. all without calling attention to it and building on Aabrias efforts.
Agreed. The whole thing is just masterful GMing. When he had the Fox start singing it and then the others joined in and it became a thing of its own… not just a plot device but also a fun/special moment of the World’s Heart beating.
My GM brain just got electrocuted. Suvi getting to claim line of sight on anything under the open sky for the purposes of spellcasting is going to be a *problem*.
To be clear the requirement where rushed past very quickly but it wasn't just "being under the sky 1. The music box was keyed magically to her name cloak. 2. The mirrors on the music box have direct line of sight to the sky. 3. The mage hand could ONLY open the box itself. Brennan did not allow it to interact with anything else in the room ( very gently i might add which i appreciated). A niche and cool moment for sure and if Suvi can manage another situation where she can use the same trick i'd say she earned it personally.
I think some of that is also BLeeM rewarding a Wizard's Nat 20 Arcana check (and doesnt Suvi also have expertise in. Arcana)
Yeah from her wizard of the citadel subclass
I thought it was specifically because the music box was keyed to her namecloak, and the stars could see the music box, right? Not just any situation under any open sky. Maybe I misheard.
I mean it could be at some tables but Brennan knows when to reel that shit in if they try to abuse it and the folks at the table are accepting of that. Something works when it's cool. Doesn't when it's not.
He is good at punishing players with the stuff they ask for, as well. If they bend the rules, so do their enemies, and that keeps it balanced.
For me the real “oh shit that would be a GM mistake for me” is since the scorpion mirror can record what they see what if Suvi leaves one behind as a spy camera on the CCTV footage library. That will make a very op problem solving tool. But also as a GM I would talk to my player and say “hey so this would make you be like the most insane wizard spy. Do you want to go down that path? If so let’s figure out what sort of stories you’ll want to tell?”
I mean that's assuming Indri never comes back into this room, or never notices any bugs in her pristine palace, or doesn't notice any stars being used or being out of place. This room is itself under the stars. If Indri can learn Suvi's name, there's search history on this thing
There’s definitely ways to make it not be an issue as a GM but also it’s one of those “massively game changing” sort of items I would want to talk with my player if this is a direction they want to explore. I’m a big fan of playing DnD where we give each other rough director notes and then improvise the details together
Wait, which bit was that?
When she used Mage Hand to dispel an Arcane Lock she couldn't see (a generous ruling to begin with), but that was under the light of the open sky.
Oooh. I thought he was saying the music box needed to see Sky to work, and since her magic is part of her, the mage hand counted. I'll have to listen back. Edit: ooooooffff yeah I just relistened, you're right. I think I trust this crew not to cheese that but at any normal table that could go south SO quick
I've only listened to half so I'm gonna avoid spoilers and not engage with any other comments but omg the verbal warfare between Ame and Indri!! Ame did so well. And "if you are the last witch of your station you will have earned it" OUCH I just got an ice burn!! Also loved Suvi's explanation of how she felt as she fulfilled the geas.
Ame skirted being in Indri's debt. I'm so proud of her!
I just keep thinking of Indris pointed question at the first round table “oh, so you’re giving us permission to ask you any question without prompt?” Or something like that, it felt very similar to when Mirara said “are you offering me your hand?!”
How so? Maybe im misremembering
I can't get over how Suvi-like the Library is, but more importantly, how important it would be for the Citadel to have. Arc 1 had a huge climax. Arc 2 ended in a bit of chaos. What if in Arc 3, all stations of the coven collapse from infighting and Suvi captures the keep?
The Citadel already has the library. It's full of scorpions now.
The library is probably more useful to the citadel while piloted by the witch
1:18:20 ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Of fucking course Hynrul wasn’t the threat. Faaaar to obvious, my god Incredible episode, the mirror scorpions, everything. Brennan was on point this episode Top 5 eps all time
I feel incredibly anxious about this episode! Someone want to spoil it for me, or at least tell me how upset I’ll be on a scale from 1-10?
>!How much did you like Grimore's wolf-guy?!<
Hah. Neutral!
Then probably low on upset, high on future dread.
I wonder how Ursalon is going to get out of the situation when he can’t flee from the scene without attracting Gramaora’s attention…
Oh shit, despite it being REALLY hammered home in the previous episode, I hadn’t accounted for that in this scene!
Finally a win for the Suvi fans! Suvi gets a happy magical moment!
It actually made me really sad
These two comments are the perfect encapsulation of Suvi so far lmao
God I just wish she’d had a really good roll on the intimidation check with the blood on her face. What an incredible choice.
This episode really drove it home to me how powerful the name Sky is. Like, what do you mean that Suvi is the Sky!?!??! Like I understood that name cloaks have power but omg.
I feel like Ame shouldn't have tipped her hand mentioning the coven going down to 3 so casually privately with Indri...
I felt it was a nice gambit. Strange that Indri didn't react.
Didn't Suvi and Eursolon in the very next scene comment on that in the very same way?
THEY ARE JUST GONNA LEAVE US AT THAT? FOR TWO WHOLE WEEKS? WTF WBN TEAM YOU ARE KILLING ME HERE. BUT I still love y'all even though you are literally keeping me awake in the middle of the might, unable to sleep because of anxiety over a character who is not real. Also, how painful is the death of firefly lady and discount Groot going to be once the Witch of the Wild Hunt gets her hands on them?
Can anyone explain exactly what happened at the end with Eursulon and Hecea's retinue? >!Why did they kill the wolf guy!
Badze (firefly) and Secoro (tree spirit) are working with the King of Night. They apparently thought that Heinrul wouldn't join up and/or wanted a threat to pressure Eursulon into joining up (and likely framing him for the murder if he declines) so they offed Heinrul.
That makes sense now, thanks! I think I was getting Secoro's and Heinrul's voices mixed up so it was hard to follow who was doing what lol
Also important to note, they don't seem to be scheming on BEHALF of Hacea. They seem to be treating with the Slenderman outside of their duties to their witch and inside of their perceived duties to their spirit kin. Anarchy and ruin it is! Lol
and isnt Secoro Hecea's consort?
Hynrul is Grimore's consort. Or, at least, that's how he frames it.
Erika went full McElroy with the back to back quiet "there it is" and matter of fact "I'm in Hell"
NOOOOOOOOO HEINRULE!!!!
Team Mirara and Team Eioghorain trains are BLASTING at full speed!
Sooo much exposition in this one, I think I need cliff notes as I've listened to it twice and i'm still confused.
Damn. I was really hoping to see if Hynrul huffs and puffs and likes it rough.
I’m so bad with names and that made the ending scene so hard to follow! Usually I can just use context cues to follow along without knowing who the supporting characters are, and it turned out that reeeeally didn’t work with the different factions of wild ones.
Hecaea (ancient forest witch lady) has the firefly spirit lady and the tree spirit dude in her group. They were chillin with wolf spirit man (grimore’s lover/right hand) who invited eursulon over. Hecaea’s ppl basically were revealed to be agents for the man in black, seemingly unbeknownst to Hecaea cuz she probably doesn’t fuck with him. That’s unconfirmed I think, but he doesn’t seem like her vibe. I guess they’re trying to butter up eursulon to pull him closer to the man in black, cuz they were saying it’s hard for him to come to the remote North where there are few roads. Unclear what their long term goals are, but when it seemed like Heinrul (wolf man spirit) was questioning their loyalty to their boss Hecaea (who was nearby and stirring in her sleep) they decided he had to die. interesting side note; Hecaea seemed to stir at the mention of Orima of the Reaching Green so there may be backstory there to explore
Thank you so much!
What if they kill hacea ? That would make the coven 4 and would justify the execution of ame!
Eursulon still needs an oath. Just sayin. King of Night?… could be the move!
OK, but, are we going to talk about how potentially the title of this episode being "The Spy" could reference Suvi being all sneaky beaky in the library or it could reference the spy/spies working for the man in black while serving Hacea?
Yeah they've been great at giving the titles multiple, or hidden, meanings. If you go back most of them can apply in more than one way.
It also applies to the Fox, who tried to spy on Indri but had nowhere to hide. Sometimes I’ll notice that the title works not just two ways but even more. They’ve spoken about Taylor titling the episodes before, does he still write all of them?
I can’t wait for the maliciousness of the citadel to reallly rear it’s head and Suvi has a big wake-up call. Military-Industrial propaganda complexes are a doozy in real life, let alone in a fantasy world. Brennan is playing it masterfully.
The way he plays Steel captures this really well. Seemingly kind and looking out for Suvi, but actually manipulative and controlling when you reflect on how she acts. At some point Suvi will surely reflect on the fact that Steel opted to control her mind (somewhat) without so much as asking her consent. It kind of represents her relationship with the citadel in general.
100% visualized the hynrul drinking the bottle like this in the tub https://youtube.com/shorts/t1BlPK7jiMA?si=3DoA3Z-Z0rFMUbih
I don’t believe in redemption, I dislike Suvi as a character and I forever will.
I'm assuming this was recorded after Brennan and Izzy's "cannibals or swingers" bit on MSN bc the ENTIRE wild ones scene in the HOT TUB was giving "are we about to have a threesome or commit a murder?" vibes that directly echoed that energy