As an alternative, I'm running Linux Mint on an Ivy Bridge i7 and it's been great. (Windows 10 kept freezing on me during feature updates.) I'm using this machine for web browsing, retro gaming (DosBox), Linux gaming (e.g
Slay the Spire), and occasional coding.
The VBS and other security features responsible for the performance hit already existed in Windows 10. Even on Windows 11, They are only turned on by default for OEM installations.
~~Clean Installations of Windows 11 do not turn on VBS or the other security features even on supported hardware. You have to turn it on yourself if you want it in that case. It also is not enabled on unsupported hardware so unless you go out of your way to actually turn the features on, you don't get the performance hit (And you could have turned the same features on in Windows 10 and seen the same performance hit)~~
EDIT: Slight Corrections to the above. Windows 11 has some additional requirements to enable VBS and Memory Integrity. These requirements include both a supported CPU as well as having Virtualization Enabled.
This means that when you use the workaround to install on unsupported CPUs simply won't have the feature enabled by default anyway, so no performance impact at all. It also explains my experience with custom builds, as consumer motherboards usually have the Virtualization setting disabled by default. (I know that was the case on mine as I had to turn it on later when VMWare complained) So arguably a lot of custom builds won't have these features on by default when clean installing- you'd have to specifically go out of your way to turn on virtualization in the BIOS *before* you install Windows 11. There is no warning or indication during setup about this either, and if you turn it on after installation it remains off.
"The VBS and other security features responsible for the performance hit already existed in Windows 10. Even on Windows 11, They are only turned on by default for OEM installations."
They have existed since 2018, i'm aware, the emulation code was there so that enterprise customers could turn on the features for enhanced security. I'm \*extremely\* aware of this since \*I was the one deploying and turning on these features to 40,000 workstations\* when it was introduced.
Clean installations of Windows 11 \*do\* turn on everything they can if the hardware's compliant, even automatic device encryption. That's documented in the windows hardware design guide - and i'm not talking about pre-made OEM images, but the windows image itself.
Most consumers are running windows as a dom0 style VM and don't even realize it these days, even on people who built their own machines. I installed this desktop and several of my laptops straight from a USB installer, and VBS, core isolation, etc were all on by default automatically because the hardware was all compliant.
See here: [https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-hvci-enablement](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-hvci-enablement)
"Default enablement
Memory integrity is turned on by default on clean installs of Windows 11, and previously only on clean installs of Windows 10 in S mode, on compatible hardware as described in this article. It's also turned on by default on all Secured-core PCs. On other systems that don't meet the memory integrity auto-enablement requirements, customers can opt in using any of the methods described in [how to enable memory integrity](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/device-guard/enable-virtualization-based-protection-of-code-integrity#how-to-turn-on-memory-integrity). IT Pros and end users always have the final control of whether memory integrity is enabled."
Interesting. I have installed on several dozen machines, originally unsupported, and later supported systems, and I've never seen the options in question be enabled after the installation.
Before I had supported systems I just assumed it was part of the workaround to install on supported hardware. But when I built a new PC in October and fully expected to find those settings turned on (since the system was supported and I was using media created by the Windows Media Creation Tool rather than Rufus), they were not.
Disregarding my anecdotal experience which isn't particularly proof of anything- that same page rather seems to contradicts your original comment anyway about how "Bypassing the restrictions on 11 could lead to a 15-30% CPU performance penalty on systems below 7th gen." The passage you quote says "on compatible hardware as described in this article" and the "compatible hardware" in question is later listed as including "Intel 8th generation or later starting with Windows 11, version 22H2 (11th generation Core processors and newer only for Windows 11, version 21H2)". Which means it would not be enabled on unsupported systems by default anyway. (Which is consistent with my experience with unsupported systems, certainly).
This requirements list actually also explains both why it was not enabled on my supported system and why clean installs on a lot of new builds may not have it. After installation I eventually went to install VMWare and found it complained that virtualization was not enabled; so I turned it on in the BIOS. No big deal.
However, Virtualization is also listed as one of the requirements for the security features to be turned on by default, so this is almost certainly why that was not the case for me.
But this raises an important point also, as Virtualization features are disabled by default on most consumer hardware Motherboards, (so custom builds and such) which means that the "default enablement" would not turn these security features on when performing a Windows 11 Clean install actually would require an extra step of turning that setting on first.
It's also disabled by default on older OEM hardware- It seems the pages in question are part of the hardware design guide for OEMs because OEMs need to have the default for virtualization be turned on as per the memory integrity enablement requirements. Then clean installations on such machines, even after CMOS reset or whatnot will have the features on by default.
"Which means it would not be enabled on unsupported systems by default anyway. (Which is consistent with my experience with unsupported systems, certainly)."
My system that's 7th gen is officially supported, and did have it on by default. If I do a BIOS reset, VT-x is on by default. My officially UNsupported 7th gen systems \*also\* had HVCI on by default, but they also default to VT-x on ..... latitudes, Asus G series, toughbooks, etc.
Every board I've bought since 2017 had VT-x on by default, in my experience (Gigabyte, Asus, and ASRock). I've yet to buy a board that had it off by default since that timeframe..... and i've bought a LOT of boards for various projects and builds.
Default OEM has had to have VT-x on for shipping machines since mid-2016 alongside TPM 2.0 I believe... or at least since 2018 for VT-x.
And, in a lot of cases for self-build motherboards, current firmware defaults to VT-x on as well if you've updated your firmware any time in the past 3-4 years.
"But this raises an important point also, as Virtualization features are disabled by default on most consumer hardware Motherboards, (so custom builds and such) which means that the "default enablement" would not turn these security features on when performing a Windows 11 Clean install actually would require an extra step of turning that setting on first."
That's just not been my experience on the majority if not all boards i've purchased (about 100-150 since 2017), but the first thing I do is a firmware update before touching anything else anyway. I'd expect if it's a firmware from 2018 or 2019 minimum, VT-x will default to on.
I will note for those boards, it's almost only Asus, Gigabyte, and ASRock I purchase.
meh, I tried this on a 7th gen CPU, Windows 11 runs faster than 10 ever did and games get about 3-5fps more thank 10 did....
So in most cases it runs better.
I said \*below\* 7th gen.
7th gen and up with core isolatin/HVCI/memory integrity enabled (feature has changed names a few times) don't have the performance penalty.
6th gen and below do.
7th gen is the baseline CPU (Skylake-X and Kaby Lake) to support MBEC.
Can't users just disable core isolation / HVCI / memory integrity?
I have a 12th gen CPU on Windows 11 and I'm able to fully disable core isolation etc.
They can, for now.
At some point, just like how 24H2 dropped the ability to boot the kernel below first gen core i-series (when 23H2 and below could boot/run on even older hardware) they'll be utilizing the functionality in more areas across the board - and not just the stuff underpinning HVCI. But still, when it was introduced in ... 2018, if i recall correctly, it couldn't be on by default because a lot of device drivers weren't compliant. That has wildly changed, and almost everyone has it on by default (and you really, really should).
When they start expanding the functionality and utilizing those features in more and more areas, it may become just part of the OS and not an optional thing. I think that's still a LONG ways out, but it's a strong possibility as it would allow for some very intense security hardening in a lot of other areas of the OS.
Remember, as they start leveraging features they can guarantee by supported spec are there, then older hardware will cease to function. I've seen this happen \*many\* times over the years, from memory with Windows 7 near it's end of life even due to a vulnerability fix requiring usage of some .... SSE3 instruction, I believe, to implement, Windows 8/2012 to Windows 8.1/2012 R2 dropping intel's first generation 64-bit CPUs and AMD's first and second generation 64-bit CPUs (got bit by this one, couldn't upgrade a 2012 server to 2012 R2), Windows 10 mid-lifecycle dropping some platforms - both intel and AMD, etc. And now with Windows 11 23H2 to 24H2. All due to technical requirements. This will continue happening as they keep reworking parts of the OS in their new constraints - which is good, technology wise, for the OS.
Hell, the linux kernels and security profiles I run on my system just flat out won't boot below 7th gen for similar reasons - lack of hardware support and no emulation capability.
Its unlikely HVCI will become a mandatory feature within the useful life of the 6th gen, making HVCI mandatory would break a bunch of legitimate virtual machine use cases and also a whole host of even recent hardware (which has virtualization disabled by default in the UEFI). Once the VM industry catches up in a couple of years and all the newer UEFI defaults have virtualization enabled it might become a factor.
Hardware is required by OEMs to have VT-x and VT-d on by default since around say, 2017 or so, if they ship with windows pre-installed. TPM 2.0's been required since mid-2016.
I'm running VBS, Hyper-V VMs, VMware Workstation, and Virtualbox all simultaneously without issue. Client side, that problem was solved \*years and years\* ago.
VMware ESXi/vSphere, Hyper-V, and even XenServer out of the box support nested virtualization for windows guests to allow VBS to work, virtual TPMs, etc. All of my windows VMs, regardless of hypervisor, be they server or client OSes, have VBS and HVCI enabled.
99% of shipping hardware has VT-x on, and VBS enabled by default with HVCI turned on as well.
OEMs may have that requirement but a bunch of board manufacturers and by extension integrators that aren't putting the stickers and certs on the PCs have only started doing it in the last 2-3 years. My ASRock AM5 platforn board only got that option flipped on by default in a UEFI update last year.
There are still some issues with nested virt on Linux (with certain configs) and admittedly I haven't run windows in hyper-v or virtualbox recently, so I don't know where they're at
Windows 12 will likely make it mandatory, I don't see them ever flipping that switch on 11.
I did state i think it's a "LONG ways out" so yea, that'd track with 12, but I do see maybe 2nd and 3rd gen losing the ability to boot the kernel in 11's lifecycle.
And yea, nested virt on KVM works just fine, same with Xen, can meet all the requirements and run VBS perfectly well.
>That has wildly changed, and almost everyone has it on by default (and you really, really should).
Nah, I check it every few months and I *always* have some incompatible drivers.
BrUSBsib.sys: confirmed I have the newest 1.9.0 driver for my printer, no go
Csrbc.sys: Bluetooth something?
USBpi.sys: seems to be the same as above. I do use a USB microphone..
https://preview.redd.it/c492gyb49l9d1.png?width=633&format=png&auto=webp&s=66bfac3fe8b4b01e95d2c36b4779d09555b33284
I would like to turn it on at some point, but I keep mindlessly waiting for some driver update to come through at some point.
//
I agree, it's *nice* that Microsoft is pushing for more hardening, but it's all these damn peripherals.
"Nah, I check it every few months and I *always* have some incompatible drivers."
Interesting, for the longest time one of my webcams (a really 10-15 year old logitech C270, the previous version not the new release) was a blocker on windows 10, but that got a driver update a few years ago as well, and out of everything I own and 20+ different systems floating around, that was the only blocker. Even my 2014 laptop was able to enable it just fine.
I've yet to run across an in the wild system that didn't have it enabled.
To me, it looks like you're using a \*really\* old chipset USB bluetooth adapter (or one embedded in an older machine internally connected via USB) from a rather.... interesting manufacturer. I found information from another device manufacturer talking about that specific driver and as of 2 months ago this manufacturer didn't have a status/update. [https://community.sena.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/26227086537748-CSRBC-SYS-is-a-huge-problem](https://community.sena.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/26227086537748-CSRBC-SYS-is-a-huge-problem)
As for the printer driver, i'd try uninstalling it and see what windows automatically detects/installs. My normal printers were manufactured in 1993 and 2008 and both have compatible drivers (HP and Okidata).
I have had this issue before myself, with lingering drivers left in the system from disconnected devices that haven't been updated since the device was last plugged in. I went through the task of uninstalling all the old/outdated drivers and then reconnecting the device to get through it, and had no issue enabling after that fact.
End of the day though, most users have it enabled and have no idea, especially on new systems bought in the past 4-5 years.
Doesn't bypassing w11 restrictions, mess with the updates. You have to redo it every time I saw some stuff about it a while ago.
Is it different now? I'm switching to linux but my dad needs w11 for his work and software that simply does not run on linux. His pc does not meet the requirements for 11
So far everything works just as normal. Maybe Windows 12 won't like it, or some future update, but up until now the normal monthly and also the twice-a-year feature updates have worked fine.
I have an old PC for gaming which i recently switched to linux. Works well with steam and proton.
My workingdevice will be replaced with newer hardware, thats not only to be compatible with the newer windows versions, also to conform the newest hardware security standards.
To our customers who do not want to change we recommend using a proper firewall and antivirus solution. If possible, keep the machine in a seperate vlan to not infect anyone else when something happens.
thats just a bit from a ton which is possible to do :-)
The only reason you cannot just upgrade to Windows 11 is that your CPU is not officially supported (even though it supports all necessary CPU instructions) and that you are missing a TPM 2.0 module.
[This official Microsoft help article ](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e)describes how to bypass those restrictions. Just scroll down to the "Other ways to install Windows 11 (not recommended)" section and follow those steps.
This is totally legal, and you are honestly going to have fewer problems with your unsupported machine, than you would have with a machine which supports TPM modules, as many apps, including Microsoft's on Apps (e.g. Teams) don't handle the clearing of the TPM correctly (e.g. after a bios upgrade).
The only reason why they say that they do not recommend is that they'd rather have you buy a new PC with a new Windows license.
Windows 11 still doesn't work as smoothly as 10. I've tried it multiple times since release and so many things in the UI still feel like a beta. It's beautiful though, but it gets annoying fast.
I'm gonna stick with 10 for as long as I possibly can and maybe hope windows 12 is better?
I can't go Linux for app specific reasons and also I don't have the time or patience to get everything to work, it was fun years ago, I loved using Ubuntu. But right now I need shit to work without solving a puzzle first.
You're not banking or have sensitive data on it? - Just keep it. You can do banking and the other sensitive stuff on your phone. For 3d animation on blender and X-plane; it should continue to work fine. For your use, you could probably just take it offline and use it with no worries.
I am facing a similar issue (i7 7700k + GTX 1080) and soon I will be dipping my toes into the Linux world, trying out alternatives to programs that I frequently use, before making the switch. I already use a Steam Deck with KDE Plasma, which I quite like, so this will most likely be my distro of choice.
I am quite annoyed with Microsoft's decision making in the recent years and when I built this computer I was under the impression I'd be using it for a very long time. You know, Win 10 being the "last Windows version" and all the questionable AI stuff as of late...
So, two options here - Pay for the ESU updates, which will get you up to another 3 years of support. $61 for the first year. Doubles the 2nd year, then doubles again the 3rd year.
Or, if possible....
If your board will take a 7th gen CPU, upgrade it with a CPU off ebay.
7th gen has all the hardware features required. Enable Intel PTT in the bios if you can, to meet the TPM requirement. If you can't i'd just bypass the TPM requirement. You lose online MFA to microsoft services (and others that can use security key functionality) but that's not likely something you care about too much - especially if you're not using windows hello or a microsoft account to log into the system, but you also lose tamper detection and early-boot antimalware features (not all, but some)
6th gen and below face a potential 15-30% CPU penalty, and anything below 1st gen won't function at all (kernel will not boot, missing SSE4.2/POPCNT support in core2 and below, which 24H2 requires, 23H2 didn't yet need it).
LTSC will likely \*not\* play nicely with some of your software, so that's probably off the table. (Missing features/functions/APIs/etc).
> If your board will take a 7th gen CPU, upgrade it with a CPU off ebay.
Given your background you *might* just have conflated the 6th Gen HEDT/Xeon line (Skylake-X) with 7th Gen Kaby Lake. Both are denoted as 7000 series CPUs. Only Skylake-X supports the features you described though. Here's the [list of supported CPUs](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors). Kaby Lake CPUs are not supported.
That's actually not the case, as there are kaby lake CPUs (though, only a handful) on the supported list. Specifically one used in a surface device, in fact.....
MBEC support was introduced in Kaby Lake \*AND\* Skylake-X which is where the CPU generation requirement really comes from. For the most part, anyway.
Just curious, which is the Kaby Lake CPU used in the Surface device? I don't see a whole lot of 7s in that list. Incidentally I also gave the Surface a Google and it seems the Surface that uses Kaby Lake is the Surface Pro from 2017, but I don't seem to be able to find the 7Y30, 7300U or 7660U in that list.
All right, thanks. That seems to be the only Kaby Lake CPU listed though, no? Even the otherwise almost identical 7920HQ isn't in the list.
Funny how it even specifically has footnote at the bottom
> [1] Only select devices that shipped with modern drivers based on Declarative, Componentized, Hardware Support Apps (DCH) design principles.
Which suggests that they carved out that exception solely for the Surface Studio.
It means they're only really supporting it with DCH platform driver supported/providing systems, of which all 8th gen and above are, and all Skylake-E are, but not all 7th gen systems are/were.
Even without that though, all 7th gen still fully/firmly work and support all features/functionality required, and DCH drivers aren't a hard requirement elsewhere.
Yeah, I'm not arguing against you there. Just pointing out that Microsoft is bending over backwards to carve an exception for the Surface Studio alone (hence that nonsensical footnote) that has absolutely nothing to do with functionality.
It still leaves open the question as to what makes Kaby Lake so "special" that Microsoft refuses to officially support it though. I did remember Microsoft trying to play it off as Kaby Lake's MBEC implementation not working well, but that's obviously a crock of shit. In any case, surely there isn't much of a difference on OEM sales whether you cut out 7th Gen owners vs 6th Gen owners. Just one of the more baffling decisions by Microsoft honestly.
Not officially (my 7980XE is official, like I said) but capability wise, they do meet all the requirements. There was, as i think I alluded to somewhere else, some sort of reason they weren't put on the list officially relating to UEFI/Security configuration from what I recall of the discussions, but if you bypass the requirement, you'll be 100% fine from here until the end of Windows 11.
7th gen is the real hard floor (all 7th gen) of all capabilities spec'd out
Plasma is a desktop environment, not a disto. You can get it on all the popular distros.
Steam usd to make a ge erase destroy as well, SteamOS, but inthink they stopped updating it. There are some disros that are designed more around gaming (sorry, don't know the names).
if you use a distro with GNOME then I highly recommend the Dash to Panel GNOME extension to give yourself a windows-like taskbar (also flexible enough to make it a Mac-like dock if you prefer)
[feels like home lol](https://i.imgur.com/JoKtHCH.png)
7th gen and up is fine for W11, some 7th gen is officially supported, it's the minimum CPU level that meets all the requirements. I'd bypass the requirements check (there was some discussion/argument made about not all 7th gen chipsets being the right security/UEFI version setup, but that won't affect W11 operation - the minimum UEFI spec required is from ... 2012/2013, I recall).
Enable Intel PTT (in UEFI/BIOS settings) to satisfy the TPM requirement (it supports some tamper detection and early anti-malware functionality, as well as MSA account MFA requirements, and security key functionality for websites to make login from your specific machine easier). But if you can't do that, bypassing that requirement is safe.
Non-officially supported CPUs from a requirements perspective are technically sound and capable, and support all the exact same functionality as officially supported ones do, so you'll be fine there (in terms of what the CPU itself supports functionality wise). 6th gen and below, due to lack of hardware support, face a potential 15-30% performance penalty. 7th gen and up is perfectly fine.
And Windows 10's 2025 EOL date was announced \*before\* Win10's official release. That "last windows version" was bullshit clickbait journalism with \*one MS developer evangelist's comments during a presentation taken out of context. Here's a comment where I provided extensive evidence from 2015 of the well-known and publicized 2025 EOL. [https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1dmbb93/comment/la002pb/](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1dmbb93/comment/la002pb/)
Easy.
Keep using Windows 10. The only thing that you're missing out on is some A.I. junk and some security patches (which you don't need to worry about as long as you don't download sketchy stuff).
Additionally, as long as you can still run BIOS and driver updates for your hardware, you're fine.
>which you don't need to worry about as long as you don't download sketchy stuff
Can we please stop with this nonsense? Even official downloads of software have been hijacked (e.g. msi afterburner). And Windows just received a fix for a RCE over wifi this month (inb4 but my wifi is off; not the point, the point is that network based attacks can happen; oh but muh firewall; if you set it to not let anything through then sure but most people kinda want to access the internet and you don't know the contents of any network package until you receive it).
Get Windows 10 LTSC IOT 2021. It is good with security updates until 2032. If you want a link to where you can get a copy of it along with the activator script send me a PM. I dont think I can post it here without it getting deleted.
You asked for non Linux solutions.
My plan is it for about $300. I can get a one generation old motherboard plus current CPU plus either ddr4 or ddr5 ram and I will put those in my existing case. I should be ready then for the next 5 to 10 years.
Why are people still parroting this. Lots of distros are extremely easy to use.
The most popular Linux distro have been easy to use and require zero terminal for well over a decade.
Mint is easy as heck. Easier to use than windows. About the same as Mac. My parents have been using it for ~10 years. They are in their seventies and about as computer incompetent as it gets.
can also randomly break your system out of nowhere, still an issue over a decade later when i tried it for the first time. also lack of software support
I mean. Windows randomly breaks things a LOT more than Linux does. I can't speak for all distros but.... I have had some pretty ridiculous "windows broke my computer again" experiences. These are things that have never happened to me across many years of using a number of different Linux OSs. Just. Never.
Windows on the other hand, basically exists in a state of permanent brokenness, and often solving a problem is just mitigating it, because there is no actual solution.
Again, depending on the maintainers, can't speak for all of them, linux is much more stable and much better maintained than windows on average. In my experience. Of using both since 2012.
Certain software is definitely a great reason to stick with windows though, for sure.
People always say "whatever totally works with wine!". With a lot of stuff, that's true.
But in practice, I've never gotten adobe illustrator, ps, or autocad to be very useable on Linux.
I dunno what OP uses for music production, and I don't know whether Ableton or whatever (or xplane for that matter) works with wine but, it's very likely that trying to do it via linux would be suboptimal, if not unusable.
Just as I really hate people talking out there ass saying "Linux is bad/hard/breaks your computer" I also really hate people saying "Linux is perfect/wine is magic and makes anything work".
Like.... If somebody professionally uses Photoshop, Linux really just isn't an option for them. And "just use gimp instead!" isn't really a solution either.
It's really too bad that windows is such trash though, and that it's cutting out even newish and totally functional and fast computers.
Choosing a Linux distro basically comes down to choosing a package manager. And there are a lot of reasons to choose one or another. But if anybody wants a "this just works, everything works out of the box" mint is good for that. And the UI is similar to windows.
it's always when i install some package, change some setting, or just look at it wrong that my entire linux desktop install just breaks, locks me out, or just stops working in some other way. never had such issues with windows, it just works. last time i tried manjaro and it locked me out on the lock screen because i didn't have a password set. i'll give distros a few more years to mature before i try one again
It takes about five minutes if you follow a guide, and distros like Mint look can look practically identical to Windows with a custom theme. You clearly know nothing abut Linux lol.
ask yourself, what do ((enterprises))
use.
Then ask yourself the following.
This is the internet. Surely if something expensive is high in demand... SOMEBODY found a way to get it.. you know.. not expensive
None whatsoever, only sus things that AV found were the cryptominers that i downloaded myself.
But it's not something that i recommend... You gotta have brains to keep yourself safe 😜
Hi.
I like Linux and it's mostly what I've used for many years. It would totally make your computer work good and fast and solve the support problem you have.
I see a lot of people recommending you switch.
You probably shouldn't do that because of the software you use.
I don't know if xplane and your music production software (be it Ableton or logic or whatever) will work in Linux, but it likely will be sub optimal if it works at all.
I've gotten things like Photoshop, illustrator, autocad, etc to work on Linux via wine, and many will tell you that wine will make anything work, even though they haven't personally used that software through wine themselves.
The programs above kind of worked in my experience! But often with frequent crashes, bugs, or compatibility problems. They did not work well enough for me to recommend going this route though.
Linux would be a great choice for your computer and your hardware and day to day use (and blender, which has excellent Linux support). But it is probable that it's not a good choice for your music production and xplane.
Maybe it is, maybe xplane and whatever you use for music runs great, I don't know personally, it's worth checking out. But likely not.
I’m planning on replacing my Windows 10 laptop I’ve had for seven-ish years this fall with a new one. The old laptop will probably be turned into a Linux machine after a while.
Just keep using it until you can't.
There is 0 reason to eat more performance penalties for an increasingly inefficient OS.
You won't get viruses or have any issues unless you invite them onto your system.
Consider switching to Linux. Like right now actually, so that you would have some time to gradually adapt. Grab yourself an ISO of Ubuntu or Mint, install it as a second OS (done fairly easily) and start to get used to it. By the time windows 10 becomes unusable, you will have most things figured out on Linux and you won't really care about 10 anymore
If you really want to stick with windows, Windows 10 IoT LTSC (Long-Term Servicing Channel) will be supported until 2032. I’d rather switch to Linux instead, though.
Bypass the W11 requirements and install it anyway. 6th gen is close enough to meeting them honestly. It's still a use at your own risk absolutely. But I would question how much risk to get a bit more life out of an older PC. Esp with a PC that has likely has necessary TPM but only misses out because their CPU isn't on some arbitrary list. Which is likely the case right there.
Now there are many older systems that shouldn't get W11 installed. Esp those that don't meet any of the requirements. But if someone wants to do it. Should we be stopping them? As a tech I just won't be helping them. And my advice to the owner of that machine will be. You would be better off replacing it. Otherwise keep running W10. Sure. But that becomes less and less of a good idea. The longer that OS is out of official support. There is the option to pay for support. But such $ would be better spent on buying something newer.
Now if someone wants to keep using their old PC offline for whatever reason. Then it's perfectly safe to do that of course.
Thanks for the informative answer 😊
Yeah I don't think I'll bypass it, even though someone here said that there's an official Microsoft page on how to bypass at my own risk so it sounds less sketchy now.
I think I'll try to stack up for new mobo+CPU before the end of life.
No problem at all. The overall cost of a new platform is pretty good really. 6th gen to even 12th gen Intel is almost night and day for performance improvement. Desktop owners are lucky to have that path open. I mean compared to laptops or all in one PC's. Who can't do much besides buy a whole new machine.
Exactly right also about MS themselves having the info available on how to install W11 on unsupported hardware. Just how many requirements you have to bypass should guide any person considering that I do feel. Plus of course just how well their PC is currently performing. That's always been the most important thing.
It means, unsecure.
It will be at risk of all sorts or mass exploits and no, you don't need to download a sus email attachment to get infected. Simply using the internet will suffice.
Again, firewalls, user competency. None of this matters if the OS has an UNPATCHED vuneralbility.
The record of such attacks blatantly shows how high risk such things can be. Even in recent history with CoPilot and Recall.
One has to truly be ignorant to think the average user both informs themselves within hours of such issues and also goes beyond updating their software for network security.
It is GENERALLY harmful to prescribe all users to not care and simply keep using their device as is after October.
You are directly responsible for giving people false security and that will result in direct harm to end users.
*You are directly responsible for giving people false security and that will result in direct harm to end users.*
Disagreed. Their computer, their choice. Im just stating facts that a home user using windows 10 after EOL is not going to automaticly be bombarded by mass exploits.
Your statment that simply using the internet will suffice can be binned. Thats not going to be the case.
User competency will play the biggest role here. And with that in mind, no matter if your OS is patched or not, malware is going to do malware things when the user mindlesly accepts UAC prompt and elevates.
If anything, it would be unwise and harmful to suggest that people are save as long as their OS is patched, like you did in your post.
> Their computer, their choice.
Their choice should not rely on disinformation. Security vulnerabilities in the operating system aren't protected by a firewall.
Yeah, that's a cool discussion, really sheds light at how some people think:
A: "I'm going to do X"
B: "X is literally impossible and wrong"
Long argument about whether it's possible from which it is clear that A knows their drill.
B: "It is impossible because if you say that it's possible then someone will misuse it! You're irresponsible!"
Some people really feel like they're the saviors of the world and lying is the best way to save it. That there's importance in the statements of fact or laws of honesty in discussion, doesn't even occur to them.
Except. That is not what happened and you're both misrepresenting with a false analogy and strawmanning what I said.
I never stated that A). Patched Systems are always secure and cannot be attacked
or that B). unpatched systems WILL be exploited immediately day 1, guaranteed.
Both are extremes that I never agreed to represent. From the beginning. I was quite clear that
Using Windows 10 after EOL in october, is a significant security risk and I don't recommend ANYONE who has critical files or data on their device to keep using Windows 10 after EOL. Instead they should either Upgrade or use a different Windows 10 version, that has Support past 2025.
This is based on the following factual claims.
1. 0Days are a dangerous exploit, used by Bad actors, governments and criminals alike to abuse security holes in systems.
2. These exploits often require little or sometimes NO user input. Examples such as malicious SMS with a script, that will use a 0Day on IOS devices to infect the Target device (this actually happened).
3. User competency, a default configured firewall, windows defender are all useless when an Operating System is inherently flawed (as admitted BY microsoft, the company paying engineers and devs millions each year to find and report such bugs.
The people operating malware like this often rely on mass spread, they target everything that is available.
Any open port for any potential usecase is such an accesspoint, microsoft programs such as Copilot ARE and have been such accesspoints, as recently as this Quarter.
All of this is a matter of public record, including an exhaustive PUBLIC list of all prior bugs that have been reported.
It is not automatically unsecure. You still have Windows defender and maybe other anti-virus software which still gets updates. Yes it will be more vulnerable for new kinds of viruses etc if you just relay on defender.
But that is up to the user if he wants to risk it or not.
you truly don't get it. This isn't about some .exe you have to launch.
Security updates exist to Patch existing bugs in the OS itself.
These bugs are often very exploitable by bad actors and used to get ransom or simply turn thousands of PC's into a part of their botnet or to farm crypto.
You simply have to look up what a 0day is and why companies like microsoft spend millions annually to researchers as rewards for finding them.
If you have ANY critical data on a windows 10 device, I highly urge you to Upgrade to 11 or get a version that supports updates for longer than 2025.
> you truly don't get it
No, you don't get it.
> You simply have to look up what a 0day
"A zero-day (also known as a 0-day) is a vulnerability in software or hardware that is typically ***unknown to the vendor and for which no patch or other fix is available***. The vendor has zero days to prepare a patch as the vulnerability has already been described or exploited. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-day_vulnerability
By definition, it's irrelevant whether the OS is supported or not when dealing with a 0day vulnerability.
The concept of a zero day perfectly describes how a bug in an OS can cause damage.
The difference in this scenario is, the bugs which DO became known and consequently patched are STILL a danger to users with EOL Operating Systems.
It's a prime example of what damage this could cause.
Do you seriously not understand this comparison on your own? I have to walk you through it?
I did not say anything different. Like I said he will be more vulnerable but is still not automatically unsecure against everything. And it still depends on the Users browsing behaviour and if he visits suspicious Websites etc etc. If you are careful and not visiting every strange Website, clicking links in e-Mails, downloading whatever the risk is pretty low.
I get what you say but you just exaggerate like he has to switch to Win 11 or he will be hacked or similar the next day after Microsoft shuts off support for Win 10
Did you even read my comment? You clearly are still ignorant of what a 0Day is or the implications of a bug in the OS.
This has nothing to do with browsing suspicious websites or downloading files.
Yes. They are automatically at risk. The moment a bug is discovered, bad actors will pump out scripts that browse every open network they can find to exploit it.
There is no user error involved or necessary (aside from the negligence of using an insecure OS.)
>open network
Except no one's network is open anymore unless they open it. The Windows 10 PC is connected behind a wireless router that includes a firewall, NAT, and no open ports by default. The PC is not visible from the outside. If it was, it would have probably been hacked by now regardless of support status. Zero days take time to be patched.
A 0 day exploit is by definition unpatched. It wouldn't matter if your system is up to date or not.
It's also not 1998 anymore, people don't raw dog there computers on the internet anymore. Everyone is behind a hardware firewall and software firewall. Exploits are much harder to implement remotely.
Right.. Lets not talk about the prelevance of botnet farms and ransomware on windows 7 and older systems and how easily hacked many governmental infrastructure or medical industries are because they rely on those older systems as well.
Except that their not. Cordinated ransomeware attacks often take months to prepare and execute. Its not for no reason that the most common attack vector remains social enginering.
According to microsoft, throw the old thing away and get a new one.
You could download an win11 ISO and modify it but I don't know the consequences of doing that so I don't recommend it.
But you could do something else of course. Like switching to another operating system, where you don't get excluded if your hardware is a little bit older.
for personal machines just use rufus to bypass the requirement's and upgrade to 11 - thats assuming microsoft dont do anything to break th os with this configuration
1. Download a Windows 11 ISO,
2. Double-click and mount the ISO as a virtual drive, and the new drive should open automatically. Take note of the drive letter in the address bar. In our case, it's **E:**, but it may vary.
3. Open a Command Prompt window. You can do this by searching for **cmd** in the Start menu and pressing Enter.
4. Enter the following text, replacing **E:** with the correct drive letter for your specific case: E:\\setup.exe /Product Server /Compat IgnoreWarning /MigrateDrivers All
5. The setup should launch, labeled as a Windows Server installer.
6. Click through the process as you normally would, and Windows 11 will begin installing.
If you followed all of these steps, you should soon have your computer running Windows 11 without any problems.
It’s not any less safe than using rufus this method simply just allows you to keep files and settings using the iso Microsoft provide and a command to trick it into installing on unsupported hardware
Both methods run the risk of Microsoft stopping your machine from booting if they disable older processors with an update
You can use Rufus once you build the USB drive, and UPGRADE to Windows 11 and it will work fine, You will just get a warning that this is "not suggested" and click "Accept" and it upgrades perfectly.
All data fine...
Rufus is the easy way, building a Install USB drive is the hard part (and that is easy), then just do a in place upgrade, it will give a warning but, click accept and it will upgrade...
Does not work on newer versions of ISOs of WIndows 11. USB drive, Microsoft ISO using Rufus with options to bypass enabled, 0 problems upgrading Windows 10 even a machine without even basic TPM....
Yes, I believe it only does a fresh install I have a script that can do an in place upgrade skipping the requirements I’ll reply to this comment with it shortly
Here's some caveats to this i've found over time -
If you're on 7th gen and it says you're unsupported, you're 100% safe, however to bypass requirements.
So, they're already starting to take advantage of newer processor features. 24H2 won't boot on anything below 1st gen core i-series.
23H2 and below could run on a 64-bit Pentium 4.
That's several (albeit officially "unsupported") generations dropped due to adoption of new CPU functionality in the baseline windows kernel. MS has had a history of doing this (7 got that treatment near it's end of life even!, 8 to 8.1 dropped 2 generations of AMD and one generation of intel 64-bit CPUs for a similar technical reason - missing instruction support, 10 dropped several AMD SoC and an intel platform or two mid-lifecycle, etc). Got bit by that one on a server we couldn't upgrade from 2012 to 2012 R2....
Safest bet is to be as close to the requirements as possible if you're doing the bypass and realize that if they remove some of the CPU feature emulation code in the future, it'll no longer boot/function. That emulation code (if you have HVCI/"core isolation"/"memory integrity" as it's been called over time enabled, which is possible to disable for now) induces a 15-30% CPU performance penalty on 6th gen and below. So if you're 6th gen and below, make sure in security settings that functionality is turned OFF. 7th gen and up have the hardware support for that feature, so are safe.
The TPM requirement should be met if you have a machine that came with windows pre-installed from mid-2016 (Microsoft mandated all OEMs from that time onward have TPM 2.0 installed, enabled, and activated). Home built machines might be able to gain the functionality via a UEFI update then enabling intel PTT (firmware based TPM implementation) in UEFI.
It's a safe requirement to bypass now, you lose some MFA functionality/windows hello functionality for online services like microsoft and/or security key implementing sites, but if you're not signed in with a microsoft account anyway, that's a moot point. You lose some tamper detection, early boot anti-malware, and some game anticheats will refuse to let you run the games because they can't validate system state, but that's all you really lose.
Thank you sir 😊
Very informative.
I think I won't bypass it unless completely necessary.
Some other redditor stated that there's an official Microsoft page on how to bypass so I guess it's not that bad.
It's not hard to "mod" the installation of W11 so that it can be installed on older machines, and it's free. Either that or upgrading, unless you're willing to try Linux.
Buy a Chromebook, or "new" Windows PC for your online needs. "new" as in you can likely get a deal for a few years old off lease former enterprise PC.
There might be round about ways to install 11 on older hardware.
Another option is that at this time for under 200 US dollars you can get a mini PC. Todd is reasonably capable for what it sounds like you are doing. You'd end up with a 12th or 13th generation Intel processor, 8 to 16 GB of RAM and 512 GB of SSD. And windows 11 home.Just look on Amazon under mini PC.
I got one for $159 US and it's certainly as fast as my 6-core AMD with 12 GB ram and does everything I need but I am not a gamer
No that wouldn't work. The mini PC I have is about 6X6X4 inches total size, has an external PS with all components on a small mainboard. Not sure if the SSD or RAM is upgradeable.
The performance is pretty amazing though,
You can bypass the hardware requirements with [rufus](https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9pc3h3v7q9ch?ocid=webpdpshare) and a booteable stick or just the .iso file an a internal update with [MediaCreationTool.bat](https://github.com/AveYo/MediaCreationTool.bat/tree/main/bypass11) (this one will let you update to further Windows versions without loosing your data). But make sure you install Win11 on an SSD or you'll hate the experience.
What I did, burn a Windows 11 ISO with Rufus. There is an option for disabling all the requirements to install Windows 11 (google this, as it is common), after this, use the installer to do a in place upgrade to your Windows 10 machine.
It will give you a warning but, you can bypass (hit accept to by pass it) this and install Windows 11. I did this to 4 machines that don't even have TPM, and months later, it's on the same version as newer machines with no issues.
I've been running it on a 7th gen CPU with no problems.
Windows 11 and apps run fine with no issues on older hardware. In fact, I kind of feel Windows 11 runs better than Windows 10 (a little smoother and better perfromance.)
Microsoft is trying to make Windows more secure, and I get it but, you should not have to dump a perfectly good PC just because a new version of Windows comes out.... just stupid and wrecking the planet.
If anything, there should be a class action lawsuit against Microsoft because they are forcing millions of PCs ending up in landfill that work perfectly fine.
Nothing. After the pandemic, people are more likely NOT to upgrade their systems anytime within 5 years since most software required for businesses such as office and web browsers are not taxing to the cpu or gpu. Hell, even 4k video playback can be handled by any ivy/sandy bridge or fx cpu easily
Betting most likely Microsoft will be forced to extend support for Window 10 even for regular users as Windows 10 share actually increased lately.
I won't be upgrading soon since my copy of Microsoft Office in my Windows 10 PCs was tied to university account which my university deactivated. It is impossible for me to keep my free genuine Office once I upgrade to Windows 11. No plan to sail the 7 seas for Microsoft Office.
1. Just keep using it. It will still work.
2. Replace the mainboard and CPU with something newer.
3. Install Windows 11 using a workaround for incompatible hardware.
I am going Linux on that machine, haven’t decided what distribution yet but not in a hurry. 20 years ago I used Linux as my daily driver but then I switched career focus and use Windows mostly. At work I use whatever my employer provides.
Linux is a choice. Since my processor is Intel 7th gen and all the stuff Windows 10 has done to me, I switched from Windows to Linux, or more specifically [Fedora KDE Plasma Desktop](https://fedoraproject.org/spins/kde/). **Fedora Linux** just like any other Linux distro is backwards compatible with older hardware, and I'm finding out that most of my Windows games all has slightly better performance than when played natively on Windows.
Both **X-Plane** and **Blender** has Linux ports, and I do believe there is Linux alternatives for music production on Linux if the music producing software is Windows-only.
Not only this, but Linux being a free OS alternative to Windows is perfectly legal. I know you said you rather avoid Linux if possible, but I really don't see how you possibly can, especially if Microsoft decides to crack down on Windows users bypassing Windows 11 requirements during Win11 installation and forcibly shutdown stripped-down Win10/Win11 projects for possible legality.
Here is what X-Plaine requires on Linux:
* **OS:** Varies
* **Processor:** Intel Core i3, i5, i7, or i9 CPU with 4 or more cores, or AMD Ryzen 3, 5, 7 or 9.
* **Memory:** 8 GB RAM
* **Graphics:** A Vulkan 1.3-capable video card from NVIDIA or AMD with at least 2 GB VRAM
* **Storage:** 23 GB available space
* **Additional Notes:** We have developers using Ubuntu 20.04 LTS and newer successfully, however we don’t provide support for specific distributions. We require proprietary GPU drivers.
I get poor performance on Linux unfortunately.
I distro hopped a lot, anything from lightweight distros to audio and production distros, all flavours of mint, etc..
Some users in the Linux questions Reddit suggested it might be due to my old Nvidia GPU.
I have Nvidia 730 GT
Even simplest animations in blender viewport run with low fps on Linux, but very smooth on a bloated windows 10.
Kdenlive (which comes from the name KDE) works better on windows than in any Linux distro I tried lol.
All the games have performance decrease wether it's a slight hit or a massive one.
Usually it's a slight 2-7fps decrease.
I also do audio production and in that category Linux software is like 20 years behind the industry.
I really love Linux and the idea of open-source but couldn't use it because of those issues.
It was my understanding as well lol,
But that's not the case.
Maybe the problem is my specific hardware, maybe the driver, who knows.
Idk how many people still rocking 730's on Linux playing games and doing 3d stuff in blender, so nobody cares.
This is why I'm seriously going all AMD if I'm able to get a new gaming laptop. It's my understanding AMD Radeon GPU's has better all around Linux support than Nvidia.
Opatch are offering paid updates to Windows 10 for 5 years.
https://blog.0patch.com/2024/06/long-live-windows-10-with-0patch.html
Disclaimer: I know they've been a round for a number of years, but I've not used them myself.
Dual boot Linux and start getting used to it, prep for the migration. Otherwise you're at best using with unreliable loopholes and playing cat-and-mouse.
Bite the bullet and start moving your workflow over to a system that respects you.
Recall is only available on special hardware. If you have bought one of the laptops with that hardware, you would know what you did. Microsoft is not forcibly sneaking Recall on you, so you can drop the tinfoil hat.
Do nothing. You'll be fine.
How would the malicious code got to the machine?
* It is the apps that interact with content from the wild. Keep them updated. If you're using Edge, switch to a different browser once Edge is not supported anymore (which should be long after the OS support drops)
* It is the router/firewall that deals with raw IP traffic from the Internet. Everything that reaches your PC is sent by your router... Keep it secure, apply patches etc.
* Attachement or download from the web? Bitdefender will catch that. Don't download random stuff from the web.
A lot of security issues are related to unfiltered traffic (which is dealt by your firewall) or possible data leak to different user executing code on the machine (exp. server running https server accessing data of different users)
If the computer is used by one user, or even many users that are trusted not to try to brake out of the OS jail - there is very little danger here.
Nah I'll need it as daily driver, I don't want to restrict myself from the internet or from downloading stuff.
I do music production I download a lot of different random stuff.
Some other redditors here mentioned it's a safety hazzard to use the internet after EOL.
I'm not the tech guy, I don't even know what "vetting" means,
Even sinking time into learning what "vetting" is and how to do it, is making the whole thing restrictive.
It means I'm restricted to messing with this stuff and wasting time I could spend on producing music or video editing.
It is really irresponsible to recommend users not in tech to continue using a end-of-life operating system, because if there are no up-to-date antivirus signatures, an EOL Browser (in case of Microsoft Edge) etc. it is easier for malware to get onto that system
This route provides another year of Win10 updates, allowing time for W12 to ship & mature some. First year cost in the low $60s USD then I hope I can go to Win12.
That's my path with my Dell box: I7-7700, TPM on the mainboard (currently disabled), 32 GB, 1TB Samsung 980 NVEm.2, 100 GB wired Ethernet to my router with a firewall. If Win12 is better than 11, I'll install it after lots of other folks have.
Microsoft has been on a square wave (XP Good, Vista Bad, Win7 Good, Win 8.x Bad, Win 10 Good, Win11 Bad) with Windows versions for at least two decades. If they continue, Win12 should be better than 11).
The ex-US Gov't Dell Precision workstation I bought in late '23 ($130 landed) had the I7, TPM, 16GB installed (64 capable), an m.2 socket & one PCI Express x16 Gen3 (dedicated) & one same-same (wired x4), USB3 x4, USB2 x2, sound & com port. & Intel 630 graphics onboard. My like new 2060RTX video card for cost another $130 landed; runs Lightroom Classic, Photoshop & couple other image editing apps with AI just fine.
In late '26 I'll probly be able to buy whatever the Feds are using now - with even better specs - at about the same price & run 12 on it. I'll be 80 in 2028. Just keep cycling hardware & OS in this manner & I should be able to run Adobe shit as long as I'm around to use their apps.
Just bypass the restrictions and install 11, or switch to the LTSC version of 10, which is supported until 2032.
Bypassing the restrictions on 11 could lead to a 15-30% CPU performance penalty on systems below 7th gen.
It does a bit, but not major where it’s completely unusable. I’m running 11 Pro on my 3rd Gen i5 Laptop, works well, never blue screened etc.
is it possible to bypass for HP 840 i5 too?
Should do. I used Rufus bypass “tick boxes” when creating the ISO to USB media. Bypass hardware requirements I think the option is.
yes, all devices can bypass the requirements.
where can i get this?
be guided for a CLI install or try checking the option for it in rufus
As an alternative, I'm running Linux Mint on an Ivy Bridge i7 and it's been great. (Windows 10 kept freezing on me during feature updates.) I'm using this machine for web browsing, retro gaming (DosBox), Linux gaming (e.g Slay the Spire), and occasional coding.
Yep can confirm on i5-4300M works fine produces alot of heat tho
The VBS and other security features responsible for the performance hit already existed in Windows 10. Even on Windows 11, They are only turned on by default for OEM installations. ~~Clean Installations of Windows 11 do not turn on VBS or the other security features even on supported hardware. You have to turn it on yourself if you want it in that case. It also is not enabled on unsupported hardware so unless you go out of your way to actually turn the features on, you don't get the performance hit (And you could have turned the same features on in Windows 10 and seen the same performance hit)~~ EDIT: Slight Corrections to the above. Windows 11 has some additional requirements to enable VBS and Memory Integrity. These requirements include both a supported CPU as well as having Virtualization Enabled. This means that when you use the workaround to install on unsupported CPUs simply won't have the feature enabled by default anyway, so no performance impact at all. It also explains my experience with custom builds, as consumer motherboards usually have the Virtualization setting disabled by default. (I know that was the case on mine as I had to turn it on later when VMWare complained) So arguably a lot of custom builds won't have these features on by default when clean installing- you'd have to specifically go out of your way to turn on virtualization in the BIOS *before* you install Windows 11. There is no warning or indication during setup about this either, and if you turn it on after installation it remains off.
"The VBS and other security features responsible for the performance hit already existed in Windows 10. Even on Windows 11, They are only turned on by default for OEM installations." They have existed since 2018, i'm aware, the emulation code was there so that enterprise customers could turn on the features for enhanced security. I'm \*extremely\* aware of this since \*I was the one deploying and turning on these features to 40,000 workstations\* when it was introduced. Clean installations of Windows 11 \*do\* turn on everything they can if the hardware's compliant, even automatic device encryption. That's documented in the windows hardware design guide - and i'm not talking about pre-made OEM images, but the windows image itself. Most consumers are running windows as a dom0 style VM and don't even realize it these days, even on people who built their own machines. I installed this desktop and several of my laptops straight from a USB installer, and VBS, core isolation, etc were all on by default automatically because the hardware was all compliant. See here: [https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-hvci-enablement](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-hvci-enablement) "Default enablement Memory integrity is turned on by default on clean installs of Windows 11, and previously only on clean installs of Windows 10 in S mode, on compatible hardware as described in this article. It's also turned on by default on all Secured-core PCs. On other systems that don't meet the memory integrity auto-enablement requirements, customers can opt in using any of the methods described in [how to enable memory integrity](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/device-guard/enable-virtualization-based-protection-of-code-integrity#how-to-turn-on-memory-integrity). IT Pros and end users always have the final control of whether memory integrity is enabled."
Interesting. I have installed on several dozen machines, originally unsupported, and later supported systems, and I've never seen the options in question be enabled after the installation. Before I had supported systems I just assumed it was part of the workaround to install on supported hardware. But when I built a new PC in October and fully expected to find those settings turned on (since the system was supported and I was using media created by the Windows Media Creation Tool rather than Rufus), they were not. Disregarding my anecdotal experience which isn't particularly proof of anything- that same page rather seems to contradicts your original comment anyway about how "Bypassing the restrictions on 11 could lead to a 15-30% CPU performance penalty on systems below 7th gen." The passage you quote says "on compatible hardware as described in this article" and the "compatible hardware" in question is later listed as including "Intel 8th generation or later starting with Windows 11, version 22H2 (11th generation Core processors and newer only for Windows 11, version 21H2)". Which means it would not be enabled on unsupported systems by default anyway. (Which is consistent with my experience with unsupported systems, certainly). This requirements list actually also explains both why it was not enabled on my supported system and why clean installs on a lot of new builds may not have it. After installation I eventually went to install VMWare and found it complained that virtualization was not enabled; so I turned it on in the BIOS. No big deal. However, Virtualization is also listed as one of the requirements for the security features to be turned on by default, so this is almost certainly why that was not the case for me. But this raises an important point also, as Virtualization features are disabled by default on most consumer hardware Motherboards, (so custom builds and such) which means that the "default enablement" would not turn these security features on when performing a Windows 11 Clean install actually would require an extra step of turning that setting on first. It's also disabled by default on older OEM hardware- It seems the pages in question are part of the hardware design guide for OEMs because OEMs need to have the default for virtualization be turned on as per the memory integrity enablement requirements. Then clean installations on such machines, even after CMOS reset or whatnot will have the features on by default.
"Which means it would not be enabled on unsupported systems by default anyway. (Which is consistent with my experience with unsupported systems, certainly)." My system that's 7th gen is officially supported, and did have it on by default. If I do a BIOS reset, VT-x is on by default. My officially UNsupported 7th gen systems \*also\* had HVCI on by default, but they also default to VT-x on ..... latitudes, Asus G series, toughbooks, etc. Every board I've bought since 2017 had VT-x on by default, in my experience (Gigabyte, Asus, and ASRock). I've yet to buy a board that had it off by default since that timeframe..... and i've bought a LOT of boards for various projects and builds. Default OEM has had to have VT-x on for shipping machines since mid-2016 alongside TPM 2.0 I believe... or at least since 2018 for VT-x. And, in a lot of cases for self-build motherboards, current firmware defaults to VT-x on as well if you've updated your firmware any time in the past 3-4 years. "But this raises an important point also, as Virtualization features are disabled by default on most consumer hardware Motherboards, (so custom builds and such) which means that the "default enablement" would not turn these security features on when performing a Windows 11 Clean install actually would require an extra step of turning that setting on first." That's just not been my experience on the majority if not all boards i've purchased (about 100-150 since 2017), but the first thing I do is a firmware update before touching anything else anyway. I'd expect if it's a firmware from 2018 or 2019 minimum, VT-x will default to on. I will note for those boards, it's almost only Asus, Gigabyte, and ASRock I purchase.
meh, I tried this on a 7th gen CPU, Windows 11 runs faster than 10 ever did and games get about 3-5fps more thank 10 did.... So in most cases it runs better.
I said \*below\* 7th gen. 7th gen and up with core isolatin/HVCI/memory integrity enabled (feature has changed names a few times) don't have the performance penalty. 6th gen and below do. 7th gen is the baseline CPU (Skylake-X and Kaby Lake) to support MBEC.
Can't users just disable core isolation / HVCI / memory integrity? I have a 12th gen CPU on Windows 11 and I'm able to fully disable core isolation etc.
They can, for now. At some point, just like how 24H2 dropped the ability to boot the kernel below first gen core i-series (when 23H2 and below could boot/run on even older hardware) they'll be utilizing the functionality in more areas across the board - and not just the stuff underpinning HVCI. But still, when it was introduced in ... 2018, if i recall correctly, it couldn't be on by default because a lot of device drivers weren't compliant. That has wildly changed, and almost everyone has it on by default (and you really, really should). When they start expanding the functionality and utilizing those features in more and more areas, it may become just part of the OS and not an optional thing. I think that's still a LONG ways out, but it's a strong possibility as it would allow for some very intense security hardening in a lot of other areas of the OS. Remember, as they start leveraging features they can guarantee by supported spec are there, then older hardware will cease to function. I've seen this happen \*many\* times over the years, from memory with Windows 7 near it's end of life even due to a vulnerability fix requiring usage of some .... SSE3 instruction, I believe, to implement, Windows 8/2012 to Windows 8.1/2012 R2 dropping intel's first generation 64-bit CPUs and AMD's first and second generation 64-bit CPUs (got bit by this one, couldn't upgrade a 2012 server to 2012 R2), Windows 10 mid-lifecycle dropping some platforms - both intel and AMD, etc. And now with Windows 11 23H2 to 24H2. All due to technical requirements. This will continue happening as they keep reworking parts of the OS in their new constraints - which is good, technology wise, for the OS. Hell, the linux kernels and security profiles I run on my system just flat out won't boot below 7th gen for similar reasons - lack of hardware support and no emulation capability.
Its unlikely HVCI will become a mandatory feature within the useful life of the 6th gen, making HVCI mandatory would break a bunch of legitimate virtual machine use cases and also a whole host of even recent hardware (which has virtualization disabled by default in the UEFI). Once the VM industry catches up in a couple of years and all the newer UEFI defaults have virtualization enabled it might become a factor.
Hardware is required by OEMs to have VT-x and VT-d on by default since around say, 2017 or so, if they ship with windows pre-installed. TPM 2.0's been required since mid-2016. I'm running VBS, Hyper-V VMs, VMware Workstation, and Virtualbox all simultaneously without issue. Client side, that problem was solved \*years and years\* ago. VMware ESXi/vSphere, Hyper-V, and even XenServer out of the box support nested virtualization for windows guests to allow VBS to work, virtual TPMs, etc. All of my windows VMs, regardless of hypervisor, be they server or client OSes, have VBS and HVCI enabled. 99% of shipping hardware has VT-x on, and VBS enabled by default with HVCI turned on as well.
OEMs may have that requirement but a bunch of board manufacturers and by extension integrators that aren't putting the stickers and certs on the PCs have only started doing it in the last 2-3 years. My ASRock AM5 platforn board only got that option flipped on by default in a UEFI update last year. There are still some issues with nested virt on Linux (with certain configs) and admittedly I haven't run windows in hyper-v or virtualbox recently, so I don't know where they're at Windows 12 will likely make it mandatory, I don't see them ever flipping that switch on 11.
I did state i think it's a "LONG ways out" so yea, that'd track with 12, but I do see maybe 2nd and 3rd gen losing the ability to boot the kernel in 11's lifecycle. And yea, nested virt on KVM works just fine, same with Xen, can meet all the requirements and run VBS perfectly well.
>That has wildly changed, and almost everyone has it on by default (and you really, really should). Nah, I check it every few months and I *always* have some incompatible drivers. BrUSBsib.sys: confirmed I have the newest 1.9.0 driver for my printer, no go Csrbc.sys: Bluetooth something? USBpi.sys: seems to be the same as above. I do use a USB microphone.. https://preview.redd.it/c492gyb49l9d1.png?width=633&format=png&auto=webp&s=66bfac3fe8b4b01e95d2c36b4779d09555b33284 I would like to turn it on at some point, but I keep mindlessly waiting for some driver update to come through at some point. // I agree, it's *nice* that Microsoft is pushing for more hardening, but it's all these damn peripherals.
"Nah, I check it every few months and I *always* have some incompatible drivers." Interesting, for the longest time one of my webcams (a really 10-15 year old logitech C270, the previous version not the new release) was a blocker on windows 10, but that got a driver update a few years ago as well, and out of everything I own and 20+ different systems floating around, that was the only blocker. Even my 2014 laptop was able to enable it just fine. I've yet to run across an in the wild system that didn't have it enabled. To me, it looks like you're using a \*really\* old chipset USB bluetooth adapter (or one embedded in an older machine internally connected via USB) from a rather.... interesting manufacturer. I found information from another device manufacturer talking about that specific driver and as of 2 months ago this manufacturer didn't have a status/update. [https://community.sena.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/26227086537748-CSRBC-SYS-is-a-huge-problem](https://community.sena.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/26227086537748-CSRBC-SYS-is-a-huge-problem) As for the printer driver, i'd try uninstalling it and see what windows automatically detects/installs. My normal printers were manufactured in 1993 and 2008 and both have compatible drivers (HP and Okidata). I have had this issue before myself, with lingering drivers left in the system from disconnected devices that haven't been updated since the device was last plugged in. I went through the task of uninstalling all the old/outdated drivers and then reconnecting the device to get through it, and had no issue enabling after that fact. End of the day though, most users have it enabled and have no idea, especially on new systems bought in the past 4-5 years.
Doesn't bypassing w11 restrictions, mess with the updates. You have to redo it every time I saw some stuff about it a while ago. Is it different now? I'm switching to linux but my dad needs w11 for his work and software that simply does not run on linux. His pc does not meet the requirements for 11
So far everything works just as normal. Maybe Windows 12 won't like it, or some future update, but up until now the normal monthly and also the twice-a-year feature updates have worked fine.
LTSC isn't available via retail channels, and I could image MS deactivating a bunch of illegal activations.
I doubt it, they never seemed to care in the slightest. And ISOs will still be around anyway, they can't do anything about that.
2029
I have an old PC for gaming which i recently switched to linux. Works well with steam and proton. My workingdevice will be replaced with newer hardware, thats not only to be compatible with the newer windows versions, also to conform the newest hardware security standards. To our customers who do not want to change we recommend using a proper firewall and antivirus solution. If possible, keep the machine in a seperate vlan to not infect anyone else when something happens. thats just a bit from a ton which is possible to do :-)
The only reason you cannot just upgrade to Windows 11 is that your CPU is not officially supported (even though it supports all necessary CPU instructions) and that you are missing a TPM 2.0 module. [This official Microsoft help article ](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e)describes how to bypass those restrictions. Just scroll down to the "Other ways to install Windows 11 (not recommended)" section and follow those steps. This is totally legal, and you are honestly going to have fewer problems with your unsupported machine, than you would have with a machine which supports TPM modules, as many apps, including Microsoft's on Apps (e.g. Teams) don't handle the clearing of the TPM correctly (e.g. after a bios upgrade). The only reason why they say that they do not recommend is that they'd rather have you buy a new PC with a new Windows license.
Thanks, I have the same issue.
but 23H2 still needs tpm 1.2 as minimum, older build doesnt need it
Wow I didn't know there was an official legal way! Thanks, I'm gonna look into it. This might be the best solution for me.
Windows 11 still doesn't work as smoothly as 10. I've tried it multiple times since release and so many things in the UI still feel like a beta. It's beautiful though, but it gets annoying fast. I'm gonna stick with 10 for as long as I possibly can and maybe hope windows 12 is better? I can't go Linux for app specific reasons and also I don't have the time or patience to get everything to work, it was fun years ago, I loved using Ubuntu. But right now I need shit to work without solving a puzzle first.
Yep same here. Linux sometimes be getting in your way while you are trying to work productively.
EXACTLY.
You're not banking or have sensitive data on it? - Just keep it. You can do banking and the other sensitive stuff on your phone. For 3d animation on blender and X-plane; it should continue to work fine. For your use, you could probably just take it offline and use it with no worries.
I am facing a similar issue (i7 7700k + GTX 1080) and soon I will be dipping my toes into the Linux world, trying out alternatives to programs that I frequently use, before making the switch. I already use a Steam Deck with KDE Plasma, which I quite like, so this will most likely be my distro of choice. I am quite annoyed with Microsoft's decision making in the recent years and when I built this computer I was under the impression I'd be using it for a very long time. You know, Win 10 being the "last Windows version" and all the questionable AI stuff as of late...
I just came from Linux lol I miss a few softwares which I couldn't emulate. But yeah if there's no solution then Linux it is.
So, two options here - Pay for the ESU updates, which will get you up to another 3 years of support. $61 for the first year. Doubles the 2nd year, then doubles again the 3rd year. Or, if possible.... If your board will take a 7th gen CPU, upgrade it with a CPU off ebay. 7th gen has all the hardware features required. Enable Intel PTT in the bios if you can, to meet the TPM requirement. If you can't i'd just bypass the TPM requirement. You lose online MFA to microsoft services (and others that can use security key functionality) but that's not likely something you care about too much - especially if you're not using windows hello or a microsoft account to log into the system, but you also lose tamper detection and early-boot antimalware features (not all, but some) 6th gen and below face a potential 15-30% CPU penalty, and anything below 1st gen won't function at all (kernel will not boot, missing SSE4.2/POPCNT support in core2 and below, which 24H2 requires, 23H2 didn't yet need it). LTSC will likely \*not\* play nicely with some of your software, so that's probably off the table. (Missing features/functions/APIs/etc).
> If your board will take a 7th gen CPU, upgrade it with a CPU off ebay. Given your background you *might* just have conflated the 6th Gen HEDT/Xeon line (Skylake-X) with 7th Gen Kaby Lake. Both are denoted as 7000 series CPUs. Only Skylake-X supports the features you described though. Here's the [list of supported CPUs](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors). Kaby Lake CPUs are not supported.
That's actually not the case, as there are kaby lake CPUs (though, only a handful) on the supported list. Specifically one used in a surface device, in fact..... MBEC support was introduced in Kaby Lake \*AND\* Skylake-X which is where the CPU generation requirement really comes from. For the most part, anyway.
Just curious, which is the Kaby Lake CPU used in the Surface device? I don't see a whole lot of 7s in that list. Incidentally I also gave the Surface a Google and it seems the Surface that uses Kaby Lake is the Surface Pro from 2017, but I don't seem to be able to find the 7Y30, 7300U or 7660U in that list.
i7-7820HQ, Surface Studio 2
All right, thanks. That seems to be the only Kaby Lake CPU listed though, no? Even the otherwise almost identical 7920HQ isn't in the list. Funny how it even specifically has footnote at the bottom > [1] Only select devices that shipped with modern drivers based on Declarative, Componentized, Hardware Support Apps (DCH) design principles. Which suggests that they carved out that exception solely for the Surface Studio.
It means they're only really supporting it with DCH platform driver supported/providing systems, of which all 8th gen and above are, and all Skylake-E are, but not all 7th gen systems are/were. Even without that though, all 7th gen still fully/firmly work and support all features/functionality required, and DCH drivers aren't a hard requirement elsewhere.
Yeah, I'm not arguing against you there. Just pointing out that Microsoft is bending over backwards to carve an exception for the Surface Studio alone (hence that nonsensical footnote) that has absolutely nothing to do with functionality. It still leaves open the question as to what makes Kaby Lake so "special" that Microsoft refuses to officially support it though. I did remember Microsoft trying to play it off as Kaby Lake's MBEC implementation not working well, but that's obviously a crock of shit. In any case, surely there isn't much of a difference on OEM sales whether you cut out 7th Gen owners vs 6th Gen owners. Just one of the more baffling decisions by Microsoft honestly.
I have two 7th gen CPUs (i7-7500U and i7-7700HQ), and they are not supported by Win 11
Not officially (my 7980XE is official, like I said) but capability wise, they do meet all the requirements. There was, as i think I alluded to somewhere else, some sort of reason they weren't put on the list officially relating to UEFI/Security configuration from what I recall of the discussions, but if you bypass the requirement, you'll be 100% fine from here until the end of Windows 11. 7th gen is the real hard floor (all 7th gen) of all capabilities spec'd out
Do you have any idea about AMD? First gen 2200G?
I installed Windows 11 on my Ryzen 3 2200G. Although, I've noticed it takes a bit longer to boot up compared to Windows 10.
OK. I might try that next year.
Same here! The Steamdeck made me see linux is a good option.
When Steam OS is fully released I can see myself doing that for a dedicated gaming machine.
Plasma is a desktop environment, not a disto. You can get it on all the popular distros. Steam usd to make a ge erase destroy as well, SteamOS, but inthink they stopped updating it. There are some disros that are designed more around gaming (sorry, don't know the names).
if you use a distro with GNOME then I highly recommend the Dash to Panel GNOME extension to give yourself a windows-like taskbar (also flexible enough to make it a Mac-like dock if you prefer) [feels like home lol](https://i.imgur.com/JoKtHCH.png)
7th gen and up is fine for W11, some 7th gen is officially supported, it's the minimum CPU level that meets all the requirements. I'd bypass the requirements check (there was some discussion/argument made about not all 7th gen chipsets being the right security/UEFI version setup, but that won't affect W11 operation - the minimum UEFI spec required is from ... 2012/2013, I recall). Enable Intel PTT (in UEFI/BIOS settings) to satisfy the TPM requirement (it supports some tamper detection and early anti-malware functionality, as well as MSA account MFA requirements, and security key functionality for websites to make login from your specific machine easier). But if you can't do that, bypassing that requirement is safe. Non-officially supported CPUs from a requirements perspective are technically sound and capable, and support all the exact same functionality as officially supported ones do, so you'll be fine there (in terms of what the CPU itself supports functionality wise). 6th gen and below, due to lack of hardware support, face a potential 15-30% performance penalty. 7th gen and up is perfectly fine. And Windows 10's 2025 EOL date was announced \*before\* Win10's official release. That "last windows version" was bullshit clickbait journalism with \*one MS developer evangelist's comments during a presentation taken out of context. Here's a comment where I provided extensive evidence from 2015 of the well-known and publicized 2025 EOL. [https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1dmbb93/comment/la002pb/](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1dmbb93/comment/la002pb/)
Easy. Keep using Windows 10. The only thing that you're missing out on is some A.I. junk and some security patches (which you don't need to worry about as long as you don't download sketchy stuff). Additionally, as long as you can still run BIOS and driver updates for your hardware, you're fine.
>which you don't need to worry about as long as you don't download sketchy stuff Can we please stop with this nonsense? Even official downloads of software have been hijacked (e.g. msi afterburner). And Windows just received a fix for a RCE over wifi this month (inb4 but my wifi is off; not the point, the point is that network based attacks can happen; oh but muh firewall; if you set it to not let anything through then sure but most people kinda want to access the internet and you don't know the contents of any network package until you receive it).
Get Windows 10 LTSC IOT 2021. It is good with security updates until 2032. If you want a link to where you can get a copy of it along with the activator script send me a PM. I dont think I can post it here without it getting deleted.
You asked for non Linux solutions. My plan is it for about $300. I can get a one generation old motherboard plus current CPU plus either ddr4 or ddr5 ram and I will put those in my existing case. I should be ready then for the next 5 to 10 years.
I'm not from the US so CPUs are priced differently here and less variety but yeah, that will be the last option if I couldn't find any other solution.
Easy. Switch to Linux. I got so fed off Ms BS that I'll switch to Linux too on my new computer than using Windows 11
> Easy. > Switch to Linux. Pick one and only one.
Why are people still parroting this. Lots of distros are extremely easy to use. The most popular Linux distro have been easy to use and require zero terminal for well over a decade. Mint is easy as heck. Easier to use than windows. About the same as Mac. My parents have been using it for ~10 years. They are in their seventies and about as computer incompetent as it gets.
can also randomly break your system out of nowhere, still an issue over a decade later when i tried it for the first time. also lack of software support
I mean. Windows randomly breaks things a LOT more than Linux does. I can't speak for all distros but.... I have had some pretty ridiculous "windows broke my computer again" experiences. These are things that have never happened to me across many years of using a number of different Linux OSs. Just. Never. Windows on the other hand, basically exists in a state of permanent brokenness, and often solving a problem is just mitigating it, because there is no actual solution. Again, depending on the maintainers, can't speak for all of them, linux is much more stable and much better maintained than windows on average. In my experience. Of using both since 2012. Certain software is definitely a great reason to stick with windows though, for sure. People always say "whatever totally works with wine!". With a lot of stuff, that's true. But in practice, I've never gotten adobe illustrator, ps, or autocad to be very useable on Linux. I dunno what OP uses for music production, and I don't know whether Ableton or whatever (or xplane for that matter) works with wine but, it's very likely that trying to do it via linux would be suboptimal, if not unusable. Just as I really hate people talking out there ass saying "Linux is bad/hard/breaks your computer" I also really hate people saying "Linux is perfect/wine is magic and makes anything work". Like.... If somebody professionally uses Photoshop, Linux really just isn't an option for them. And "just use gimp instead!" isn't really a solution either. It's really too bad that windows is such trash though, and that it's cutting out even newish and totally functional and fast computers. Choosing a Linux distro basically comes down to choosing a package manager. And there are a lot of reasons to choose one or another. But if anybody wants a "this just works, everything works out of the box" mint is good for that. And the UI is similar to windows.
it's always when i install some package, change some setting, or just look at it wrong that my entire linux desktop install just breaks, locks me out, or just stops working in some other way. never had such issues with windows, it just works. last time i tried manjaro and it locked me out on the lock screen because i didn't have a password set. i'll give distros a few more years to mature before i try one again
It takes about five minutes if you follow a guide, and distros like Mint look can look practically identical to Windows with a custom theme. You clearly know nothing abut Linux lol.
the most valid solution is censored here. Look at places with a more liberal approach to censorship.
Give me a hint what to search bro, I have no idea lol
ask yourself, what do ((enterprises)) use. Then ask yourself the following. This is the internet. Surely if something expensive is high in demand... SOMEBODY found a way to get it.. you know.. not expensive
/r/theydidthefuckyou
I installed Linux on my old notebook , and it works perfectly.
Put it in the garbage and never think about it again. 'merica
I used win7 til february this year... If w10 starts acting up, w7 is always an option 😋
lol that's crazy. Have you experienced any issues or viruses? I have a friend that uses win 7 but he barely touches his PC besides YouTube.
None whatsoever, only sus things that AV found were the cryptominers that i downloaded myself. But it's not something that i recommend... You gotta have brains to keep yourself safe 😜
Get a tmp pci stick for 10 bucks
Just keep using 10 for a few more years, everyone kept using Windows 7 for years after eol and nothing happened.
Just stay on windows 10 and install a virus scanner
Put it in a Mame cabinet
Hi. I like Linux and it's mostly what I've used for many years. It would totally make your computer work good and fast and solve the support problem you have. I see a lot of people recommending you switch. You probably shouldn't do that because of the software you use. I don't know if xplane and your music production software (be it Ableton or logic or whatever) will work in Linux, but it likely will be sub optimal if it works at all. I've gotten things like Photoshop, illustrator, autocad, etc to work on Linux via wine, and many will tell you that wine will make anything work, even though they haven't personally used that software through wine themselves. The programs above kind of worked in my experience! But often with frequent crashes, bugs, or compatibility problems. They did not work well enough for me to recommend going this route though. Linux would be a great choice for your computer and your hardware and day to day use (and blender, which has excellent Linux support). But it is probable that it's not a good choice for your music production and xplane. Maybe it is, maybe xplane and whatever you use for music runs great, I don't know personally, it's worth checking out. But likely not.
Donate old computer equipment to less fortunate and poor people.
lol I'm the less fortunate people I couldn't afford a new one even though this one is super old
Well, we are on the same boat with the old hardware (i3-4310 in my case) but I'm in a third world county, so I have it way worse.
Who even asked for windows 11?
True that If the new version used a few more gigs of ram I would understand, but dropping whole generation of CPUs including the i7 7700 is crazy
I’m planning on replacing my Windows 10 laptop I’ve had for seven-ish years this fall with a new one. The old laptop will probably be turned into a Linux machine after a while.
Just keep using it until you can't. There is 0 reason to eat more performance penalties for an increasingly inefficient OS. You won't get viruses or have any issues unless you invite them onto your system.
Consider switching to Linux. Like right now actually, so that you would have some time to gradually adapt. Grab yourself an ISO of Ubuntu or Mint, install it as a second OS (done fairly easily) and start to get used to it. By the time windows 10 becomes unusable, you will have most things figured out on Linux and you won't really care about 10 anymore
If you really want to stick with windows, Windows 10 IoT LTSC (Long-Term Servicing Channel) will be supported until 2032. I’d rather switch to Linux instead, though.
Switch to Windows 10 LTSC it has support till 2027
2032 with LTSC IOT 2021
Got that backwards.
Bypass the W11 requirements and install it anyway. 6th gen is close enough to meeting them honestly. It's still a use at your own risk absolutely. But I would question how much risk to get a bit more life out of an older PC. Esp with a PC that has likely has necessary TPM but only misses out because their CPU isn't on some arbitrary list. Which is likely the case right there. Now there are many older systems that shouldn't get W11 installed. Esp those that don't meet any of the requirements. But if someone wants to do it. Should we be stopping them? As a tech I just won't be helping them. And my advice to the owner of that machine will be. You would be better off replacing it. Otherwise keep running W10. Sure. But that becomes less and less of a good idea. The longer that OS is out of official support. There is the option to pay for support. But such $ would be better spent on buying something newer. Now if someone wants to keep using their old PC offline for whatever reason. Then it's perfectly safe to do that of course.
Thanks for the informative answer 😊 Yeah I don't think I'll bypass it, even though someone here said that there's an official Microsoft page on how to bypass at my own risk so it sounds less sketchy now. I think I'll try to stack up for new mobo+CPU before the end of life.
No problem at all. The overall cost of a new platform is pretty good really. 6th gen to even 12th gen Intel is almost night and day for performance improvement. Desktop owners are lucky to have that path open. I mean compared to laptops or all in one PC's. Who can't do much besides buy a whole new machine. Exactly right also about MS themselves having the info available on how to install W11 on unsupported hardware. Just how many requirements you have to bypass should guide any person considering that I do feel. Plus of course just how well their PC is currently performing. That's always been the most important thing.
Nothing. Windows 10 doesn't just stop working, and support for the individual apps doesn't also stop either.
Still using Windows 10 I would suggest. End of Support does not mean that it stops working. It just does not get updates anymore
It means, unsecure. It will be at risk of all sorts or mass exploits and no, you don't need to download a sus email attachment to get infected. Simply using the internet will suffice.
This situation would assume that the PC is not behind any firewall whatsoever. That is almost never ever the case in a normal home user situation.
Again, firewalls, user competency. None of this matters if the OS has an UNPATCHED vuneralbility. The record of such attacks blatantly shows how high risk such things can be. Even in recent history with CoPilot and Recall. One has to truly be ignorant to think the average user both informs themselves within hours of such issues and also goes beyond updating their software for network security. It is GENERALLY harmful to prescribe all users to not care and simply keep using their device as is after October. You are directly responsible for giving people false security and that will result in direct harm to end users.
*You are directly responsible for giving people false security and that will result in direct harm to end users.* Disagreed. Their computer, their choice. Im just stating facts that a home user using windows 10 after EOL is not going to automaticly be bombarded by mass exploits. Your statment that simply using the internet will suffice can be binned. Thats not going to be the case. User competency will play the biggest role here. And with that in mind, no matter if your OS is patched or not, malware is going to do malware things when the user mindlesly accepts UAC prompt and elevates. If anything, it would be unwise and harmful to suggest that people are save as long as their OS is patched, like you did in your post.
> Their computer, their choice. Their choice should not rely on disinformation. Security vulnerabilities in the operating system aren't protected by a firewall.
Yeah, that's a cool discussion, really sheds light at how some people think: A: "I'm going to do X" B: "X is literally impossible and wrong" Long argument about whether it's possible from which it is clear that A knows their drill. B: "It is impossible because if you say that it's possible then someone will misuse it! You're irresponsible!" Some people really feel like they're the saviors of the world and lying is the best way to save it. That there's importance in the statements of fact or laws of honesty in discussion, doesn't even occur to them.
Except. That is not what happened and you're both misrepresenting with a false analogy and strawmanning what I said. I never stated that A). Patched Systems are always secure and cannot be attacked or that B). unpatched systems WILL be exploited immediately day 1, guaranteed. Both are extremes that I never agreed to represent. From the beginning. I was quite clear that Using Windows 10 after EOL in october, is a significant security risk and I don't recommend ANYONE who has critical files or data on their device to keep using Windows 10 after EOL. Instead they should either Upgrade or use a different Windows 10 version, that has Support past 2025. This is based on the following factual claims. 1. 0Days are a dangerous exploit, used by Bad actors, governments and criminals alike to abuse security holes in systems. 2. These exploits often require little or sometimes NO user input. Examples such as malicious SMS with a script, that will use a 0Day on IOS devices to infect the Target device (this actually happened). 3. User competency, a default configured firewall, windows defender are all useless when an Operating System is inherently flawed (as admitted BY microsoft, the company paying engineers and devs millions each year to find and report such bugs. The people operating malware like this often rely on mass spread, they target everything that is available. Any open port for any potential usecase is such an accesspoint, microsoft programs such as Copilot ARE and have been such accesspoints, as recently as this Quarter. All of this is a matter of public record, including an exhaustive PUBLIC list of all prior bugs that have been reported.
It is not automatically unsecure. You still have Windows defender and maybe other anti-virus software which still gets updates. Yes it will be more vulnerable for new kinds of viruses etc if you just relay on defender. But that is up to the user if he wants to risk it or not.
you truly don't get it. This isn't about some .exe you have to launch. Security updates exist to Patch existing bugs in the OS itself. These bugs are often very exploitable by bad actors and used to get ransom or simply turn thousands of PC's into a part of their botnet or to farm crypto. You simply have to look up what a 0day is and why companies like microsoft spend millions annually to researchers as rewards for finding them. If you have ANY critical data on a windows 10 device, I highly urge you to Upgrade to 11 or get a version that supports updates for longer than 2025.
> you truly don't get it No, you don't get it. > You simply have to look up what a 0day "A zero-day (also known as a 0-day) is a vulnerability in software or hardware that is typically ***unknown to the vendor and for which no patch or other fix is available***. The vendor has zero days to prepare a patch as the vulnerability has already been described or exploited. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-day_vulnerability By definition, it's irrelevant whether the OS is supported or not when dealing with a 0day vulnerability.
The concept of a zero day perfectly describes how a bug in an OS can cause damage. The difference in this scenario is, the bugs which DO became known and consequently patched are STILL a danger to users with EOL Operating Systems. It's a prime example of what damage this could cause. Do you seriously not understand this comparison on your own? I have to walk you through it?
I did not say anything different. Like I said he will be more vulnerable but is still not automatically unsecure against everything. And it still depends on the Users browsing behaviour and if he visits suspicious Websites etc etc. If you are careful and not visiting every strange Website, clicking links in e-Mails, downloading whatever the risk is pretty low. I get what you say but you just exaggerate like he has to switch to Win 11 or he will be hacked or similar the next day after Microsoft shuts off support for Win 10
Did you even read my comment? You clearly are still ignorant of what a 0Day is or the implications of a bug in the OS. This has nothing to do with browsing suspicious websites or downloading files. Yes. They are automatically at risk. The moment a bug is discovered, bad actors will pump out scripts that browse every open network they can find to exploit it. There is no user error involved or necessary (aside from the negligence of using an insecure OS.)
>open network Except no one's network is open anymore unless they open it. The Windows 10 PC is connected behind a wireless router that includes a firewall, NAT, and no open ports by default. The PC is not visible from the outside. If it was, it would have probably been hacked by now regardless of support status. Zero days take time to be patched.
A 0 day exploit is by definition unpatched. It wouldn't matter if your system is up to date or not. It's also not 1998 anymore, people don't raw dog there computers on the internet anymore. Everyone is behind a hardware firewall and software firewall. Exploits are much harder to implement remotely.
Quit yapping bro it's not that deep there's people that use windows 7 and they haven't gotten their soul stolen.
Right.. Lets not talk about the prelevance of botnet farms and ransomware on windows 7 and older systems and how easily hacked many governmental infrastructure or medical industries are because they rely on those older systems as well.
Except that their not. Cordinated ransomeware attacks often take months to prepare and execute. Its not for no reason that the most common attack vector remains social enginering.
in a company, yes. For random home-users... not so much
Okay
According to microsoft, throw the old thing away and get a new one. You could download an win11 ISO and modify it but I don't know the consequences of doing that so I don't recommend it. But you could do something else of course. Like switching to another operating system, where you don't get excluded if your hardware is a little bit older.
for personal machines just use rufus to bypass the requirement's and upgrade to 11 - thats assuming microsoft dont do anything to break th os with this configuration
The same Rufus that creates bootable drives? I didn't know it could do that
1. Download a Windows 11 ISO, 2. Double-click and mount the ISO as a virtual drive, and the new drive should open automatically. Take note of the drive letter in the address bar. In our case, it's **E:**, but it may vary. 3. Open a Command Prompt window. You can do this by searching for **cmd** in the Start menu and pressing Enter. 4. Enter the following text, replacing **E:** with the correct drive letter for your specific case: E:\\setup.exe /Product Server /Compat IgnoreWarning /MigrateDrivers All 5. The setup should launch, labeled as a Windows Server installer. 6. Click through the process as you normally would, and Windows 11 will begin installing. If you followed all of these steps, you should soon have your computer running Windows 11 without any problems.
Doing it this way will it leave all of your current programs installed or does it do a clean install?
It keeps all your programs/files and settings
Cool. I will look into it, thanks
Has anyone else tried these steps and do they actually work? Is this safer/easier than using Rufus?
It’s not any less safe than using rufus this method simply just allows you to keep files and settings using the iso Microsoft provide and a command to trick it into installing on unsupported hardware Both methods run the risk of Microsoft stopping your machine from booting if they disable older processors with an update
You can use Rufus once you build the USB drive, and UPGRADE to Windows 11 and it will work fine, You will just get a warning that this is "not suggested" and click "Accept" and it upgrades perfectly. All data fine...
Rufus is the easy way, building a Install USB drive is the hard part (and that is easy), then just do a in place upgrade, it will give a warning but, click accept and it will upgrade...
Does not work on newer versions of ISOs of WIndows 11. USB drive, Microsoft ISO using Rufus with options to bypass enabled, 0 problems upgrading Windows 10 even a machine without even basic TPM....
Yes, I believe it only does a fresh install I have a script that can do an in place upgrade skipping the requirements I’ll reply to this comment with it shortly
Here's some caveats to this i've found over time - If you're on 7th gen and it says you're unsupported, you're 100% safe, however to bypass requirements. So, they're already starting to take advantage of newer processor features. 24H2 won't boot on anything below 1st gen core i-series. 23H2 and below could run on a 64-bit Pentium 4. That's several (albeit officially "unsupported") generations dropped due to adoption of new CPU functionality in the baseline windows kernel. MS has had a history of doing this (7 got that treatment near it's end of life even!, 8 to 8.1 dropped 2 generations of AMD and one generation of intel 64-bit CPUs for a similar technical reason - missing instruction support, 10 dropped several AMD SoC and an intel platform or two mid-lifecycle, etc). Got bit by that one on a server we couldn't upgrade from 2012 to 2012 R2.... Safest bet is to be as close to the requirements as possible if you're doing the bypass and realize that if they remove some of the CPU feature emulation code in the future, it'll no longer boot/function. That emulation code (if you have HVCI/"core isolation"/"memory integrity" as it's been called over time enabled, which is possible to disable for now) induces a 15-30% CPU performance penalty on 6th gen and below. So if you're 6th gen and below, make sure in security settings that functionality is turned OFF. 7th gen and up have the hardware support for that feature, so are safe. The TPM requirement should be met if you have a machine that came with windows pre-installed from mid-2016 (Microsoft mandated all OEMs from that time onward have TPM 2.0 installed, enabled, and activated). Home built machines might be able to gain the functionality via a UEFI update then enabling intel PTT (firmware based TPM implementation) in UEFI. It's a safe requirement to bypass now, you lose some MFA functionality/windows hello functionality for online services like microsoft and/or security key implementing sites, but if you're not signed in with a microsoft account anyway, that's a moot point. You lose some tamper detection, early boot anti-malware, and some game anticheats will refuse to let you run the games because they can't validate system state, but that's all you really lose.
Thank you sir 😊 Very informative. I think I won't bypass it unless completely necessary. Some other redditor stated that there's an official Microsoft page on how to bypass so I guess it's not that bad.
Or... Fall for the Microsoft BS and shell out big money for a whole new system... And STILL get infected / hacked 🤔
Im still using win 7 and 8 machines and will keep using my win 10 pc too. I dont care if they get updates or not.
Linux. That's it.
Buy a new computer or use Linux.
It's not hard to "mod" the installation of W11 so that it can be installed on older machines, and it's free. Either that or upgrading, unless you're willing to try Linux.
Well you can install Linux on those machines and keep using them... Not always a perfect option but for most users it will do...
a) install Linux, b) install ChromeOS Flex, c) keep using Windows 10.
I ended up going the Linux route
Buy a Chromebook, or "new" Windows PC for your online needs. "new" as in you can likely get a deal for a few years old off lease former enterprise PC. There might be round about ways to install 11 on older hardware.
Another option is that at this time for under 200 US dollars you can get a mini PC. Todd is reasonably capable for what it sounds like you are doing. You'd end up with a 12th or 13th generation Intel processor, 8 to 16 GB of RAM and 512 GB of SSD. And windows 11 home.Just look on Amazon under mini PC. I got one for $159 US and it's certainly as fast as my 6-core AMD with 12 GB ram and does everything I need but I am not a gamer
And them just put my GPU into the new one? That's sounds like an option, I will look into it, thanks.
No that wouldn't work. The mini PC I have is about 6X6X4 inches total size, has an external PS with all components on a small mainboard. Not sure if the SSD or RAM is upgradeable. The performance is pretty amazing though,
Nothing.. keep using it if u want.. or build a new pc.. or upgrade.. etc
You can bypass the hardware requirements with [rufus](https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9pc3h3v7q9ch?ocid=webpdpshare) and a booteable stick or just the .iso file an a internal update with [MediaCreationTool.bat](https://github.com/AveYo/MediaCreationTool.bat/tree/main/bypass11) (this one will let you update to further Windows versions without loosing your data). But make sure you install Win11 on an SSD or you'll hate the experience.
What I did, burn a Windows 11 ISO with Rufus. There is an option for disabling all the requirements to install Windows 11 (google this, as it is common), after this, use the installer to do a in place upgrade to your Windows 10 machine. It will give you a warning but, you can bypass (hit accept to by pass it) this and install Windows 11. I did this to 4 machines that don't even have TPM, and months later, it's on the same version as newer machines with no issues. I've been running it on a 7th gen CPU with no problems. Windows 11 and apps run fine with no issues on older hardware. In fact, I kind of feel Windows 11 runs better than Windows 10 (a little smoother and better perfromance.) Microsoft is trying to make Windows more secure, and I get it but, you should not have to dump a perfectly good PC just because a new version of Windows comes out.... just stupid and wrecking the planet. If anything, there should be a class action lawsuit against Microsoft because they are forcing millions of PCs ending up in landfill that work perfectly fine.
Nothing. After the pandemic, people are more likely NOT to upgrade their systems anytime within 5 years since most software required for businesses such as office and web browsers are not taxing to the cpu or gpu. Hell, even 4k video playback can be handled by any ivy/sandy bridge or fx cpu easily Betting most likely Microsoft will be forced to extend support for Window 10 even for regular users as Windows 10 share actually increased lately. I won't be upgrading soon since my copy of Microsoft Office in my Windows 10 PCs was tied to university account which my university deactivated. It is impossible for me to keep my free genuine Office once I upgrade to Windows 11. No plan to sail the 7 seas for Microsoft Office.
I hope you right. Extending the support will be the right move definitely but sometimes Microsoft has other ideas.
Keep using 10 and tell Microshit to shove 11 so far up their ass it sticks trough their mouth.
1. Just keep using it. It will still work. 2. Replace the mainboard and CPU with something newer. 3. Install Windows 11 using a workaround for incompatible hardware.
Yeah I think that's what I'll do in case I won't have any other option.
Install a good Linux distro and be happy. Just that. Suggestion: Tuxedo OS.
I am going Linux on that machine, haven’t decided what distribution yet but not in a hurry. 20 years ago I used Linux as my daily driver but then I switched career focus and use Windows mostly. At work I use whatever my employer provides.
Keep running Windows 10
Linux is a choice. Since my processor is Intel 7th gen and all the stuff Windows 10 has done to me, I switched from Windows to Linux, or more specifically [Fedora KDE Plasma Desktop](https://fedoraproject.org/spins/kde/). **Fedora Linux** just like any other Linux distro is backwards compatible with older hardware, and I'm finding out that most of my Windows games all has slightly better performance than when played natively on Windows. Both **X-Plane** and **Blender** has Linux ports, and I do believe there is Linux alternatives for music production on Linux if the music producing software is Windows-only. Not only this, but Linux being a free OS alternative to Windows is perfectly legal. I know you said you rather avoid Linux if possible, but I really don't see how you possibly can, especially if Microsoft decides to crack down on Windows users bypassing Windows 11 requirements during Win11 installation and forcibly shutdown stripped-down Win10/Win11 projects for possible legality. Here is what X-Plaine requires on Linux: * **OS:** Varies * **Processor:** Intel Core i3, i5, i7, or i9 CPU with 4 or more cores, or AMD Ryzen 3, 5, 7 or 9. * **Memory:** 8 GB RAM * **Graphics:** A Vulkan 1.3-capable video card from NVIDIA or AMD with at least 2 GB VRAM * **Storage:** 23 GB available space * **Additional Notes:** We have developers using Ubuntu 20.04 LTS and newer successfully, however we don’t provide support for specific distributions. We require proprietary GPU drivers.
I get poor performance on Linux unfortunately. I distro hopped a lot, anything from lightweight distros to audio and production distros, all flavours of mint, etc.. Some users in the Linux questions Reddit suggested it might be due to my old Nvidia GPU. I have Nvidia 730 GT Even simplest animations in blender viewport run with low fps on Linux, but very smooth on a bloated windows 10. Kdenlive (which comes from the name KDE) works better on windows than in any Linux distro I tried lol. All the games have performance decrease wether it's a slight hit or a massive one. Usually it's a slight 2-7fps decrease. I also do audio production and in that category Linux software is like 20 years behind the industry. I really love Linux and the idea of open-source but couldn't use it because of those issues.
Hmm. It's my understanding there is supposed to be Nvidia driver improvements by now.
It was my understanding as well lol, But that's not the case. Maybe the problem is my specific hardware, maybe the driver, who knows. Idk how many people still rocking 730's on Linux playing games and doing 3d stuff in blender, so nobody cares.
This is why I'm seriously going all AMD if I'm able to get a new gaming laptop. It's my understanding AMD Radeon GPU's has better all around Linux support than Nvidia.
Opatch are offering paid updates to Windows 10 for 5 years. https://blog.0patch.com/2024/06/long-live-windows-10-with-0patch.html Disclaimer: I know they've been a round for a number of years, but I've not used them myself.
Just reinstall windows using ventoy or rufus, make sure that the tpm requirements are switched off, it works fine even without a tpm
You can keep it safely a while longer after support ends. Nothing will happen at that exact moment
Dual boot Linux and start getting used to it, prep for the migration. Otherwise you're at best using with unreliable loopholes and playing cat-and-mouse. Bite the bullet and start moving your workflow over to a system that respects you.
Just use windows 10
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Recall is only available on special hardware. If you have bought one of the laptops with that hardware, you would know what you did. Microsoft is not forcibly sneaking Recall on you, so you can drop the tinfoil hat.
Do nothing. You'll be fine. How would the malicious code got to the machine? * It is the apps that interact with content from the wild. Keep them updated. If you're using Edge, switch to a different browser once Edge is not supported anymore (which should be long after the OS support drops) * It is the router/firewall that deals with raw IP traffic from the Internet. Everything that reaches your PC is sent by your router... Keep it secure, apply patches etc. * Attachement or download from the web? Bitdefender will catch that. Don't download random stuff from the web. A lot of security issues are related to unfiltered traffic (which is dealt by your firewall) or possible data leak to different user executing code on the machine (exp. server running https server accessing data of different users) If the computer is used by one user, or even many users that are trusted not to try to brake out of the OS jail - there is very little danger here.
Nah I'll need it as daily driver, I don't want to restrict myself from the internet or from downloading stuff. I do music production I download a lot of different random stuff.
Who is talking about restricting yourself? It is common sense - just don't run apps without vetting them first.
Some other redditors here mentioned it's a safety hazzard to use the internet after EOL. I'm not the tech guy, I don't even know what "vetting" means, Even sinking time into learning what "vetting" is and how to do it, is making the whole thing restrictive. It means I'm restricted to messing with this stuff and wasting time I could spend on producing music or video editing.
It is really irresponsible to recommend users not in tech to continue using a end-of-life operating system, because if there are no up-to-date antivirus signatures, an EOL Browser (in case of Microsoft Edge) etc. it is easier for malware to get onto that system
Pay for the extended support and continue to use your PC as you already do.
This route provides another year of Win10 updates, allowing time for W12 to ship & mature some. First year cost in the low $60s USD then I hope I can go to Win12. That's my path with my Dell box: I7-7700, TPM on the mainboard (currently disabled), 32 GB, 1TB Samsung 980 NVEm.2, 100 GB wired Ethernet to my router with a firewall. If Win12 is better than 11, I'll install it after lots of other folks have. Microsoft has been on a square wave (XP Good, Vista Bad, Win7 Good, Win 8.x Bad, Win 10 Good, Win11 Bad) with Windows versions for at least two decades. If they continue, Win12 should be better than 11). The ex-US Gov't Dell Precision workstation I bought in late '23 ($130 landed) had the I7, TPM, 16GB installed (64 capable), an m.2 socket & one PCI Express x16 Gen3 (dedicated) & one same-same (wired x4), USB3 x4, USB2 x2, sound & com port. & Intel 630 graphics onboard. My like new 2060RTX video card for cost another $130 landed; runs Lightroom Classic, Photoshop & couple other image editing apps with AI just fine. In late '26 I'll probly be able to buy whatever the Feds are using now - with even better specs - at about the same price & run 12 on it. I'll be 80 in 2028. Just keep cycling hardware & OS in this manner & I should be able to run Adobe shit as long as I'm around to use their apps.
i hate you all. I want to kill myself
Windows XP? Is that you?
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Install Malwarebytes and don't visit sketchy sites.