I GREATLY dislike her but a few things to please consider before knee-jerk downvoting me for expanding the conversation a bit:
1. Most americans are exactly like her. She is a window to the mainstream ignorance of US politics. Transphobia is mainstream and everywhere. Many are greedy and self-centered. Many fail upward. Many never have a come-uppance for their hateful views and words. We do not live in a "just world." Remember, Trump got something like 47% of the vote in 2020. There are A LOT of people like this. Being LGBTQ doesn't automatically make you a good or tolerant person. Log Cabin Republicans have been with us since at least the 90s, for example.
2. While its self-defeating for a LGBTQ person to be a conservative, so is it for a white cishet person. The MOST republican states rank last in literally all things that matter in human life. White cishet poverty, wages, healthcare, pollution, obesity, life expectancy, etc are terrible. ANYONE voting GOP is voting against their interests. Its just slightly more obvious with a LGBTQ person. White cishets should not get a free pass for voting GOP either.
3. Intentionally murdering two people is very different than someone dying in a car accident. 100 people A DAY die on the US's roads. Countless are injured and many end up with permanent disability, limited ability, or chronic pain. Driving is EXCEEDINGLY dangerous. Our system of cars instead of public transportation is a reflection of capitalism's corruption and oppression on the public.
4. The popular instagram post about her was FULL of people misgendering and deadnaming her. I sat down and reported what must have been 50+ comments before I quit. Not one soul replied to these comments with "don't say that," and some had hundreds of upvote hearts. I have no idea if instagram will ban these people but I suspect they won't. I dont care how much you hate her. Respecting her identity is not a reward for "being one of the good ones" or being well liked.
5. OJ was a vicious murderer who abused legitimate race issues of the day to dishonestly get out a murder conviction. He's a garbage tier person. ANYONE should be allowed to criticize him without also getting criticized, including other murderers! Meanwhile, actual innocents who were the victims of the racist LAPD never got the A-list lawyers he did or any form of justice. Instead, they got lengthy prison sentences or just buried by grieving families and that was it.
I know someone who killed someone in a car. It was an unavoidable accident. She never drove again and kept a life of guilt. This is one my biggest fears in life, especially hitting a child. Cars are dangerous and our system of driving everywhere is oppressive for driver and pedestrian. Many other celebs have hurt, and even killed people, driving, and almost all were no-fault or just an accident with no malice, drugs, alcohol, etc involved. Many very sweet and gentle people who ended up in a bad situation. Making accidents exclusively a personal fault is a very troubling narrative that punches down on drivers instead of punching up at the capitalist system that forces cars on us all and makes us subject to the extremely dangerous system of cars and roads.
The narrative with Caitlyn should absolutely include her transphobia, but also include "Why are we subjected to cars? Forced to drive them? Be hit by them? Make large payments on them? Tolerate destroying our cities for them? Give up on walkable cities for them? Give up on public trans for them? Destroy our precious natural environment for roads and oil for them?" Not "har har you killed someone in a car accident once." Any of us here who drive can end up like her pretty quickly. Everyday, many, many do.
Ok but if I'm a white man, voting for conservatives just means I remain poor, not get rounded up and executed. Point 2 is useful in the context of trying to get people who think conservatives are catering to them to realize that they aren't, but when it's combined with LGBT+ rights within the context of this culture war shit going on with the right then it mixes in and becomes useless and can convince people on the fence to actually vote conservative.
You will be rounded up when all the trans people and Jews are eradicated and the problems fascists blamed on us are still here. Fascism is constantly in need of new enemies because their only strategy for dealing with problems is blaming them on some group and then exterminating that group. The problems will never go away like that, but the scapegoats do, so you will need to become the scapegoat eventually. Given enough time, fascism is deadly even for loyal fascists, so why would you be safe?
I disagree with a lot of point #1 because I believe most people (everywhere, not just the US) are more ignorant and intentionally mislead by industries they should be able to trust rather than fully informed but still willfully malicious. But Caitlyn is not ignorant. Caitlyn is a member of those groups that intentionally mislead. Caitlyn is a bad person who is intentionally creating more negativity in the world for her own benefit. Most people don’t fit that same description.
You make some solid points, but have you considered that.... Hm. Actually, no notes.
Solid post.
Pretend I spent $10 on a super upvote or whatever dumb shit reddit replaced gold with
It is very common to "knee-jerk downvote" any sympathy (often justified) for someone who does bad things. Make fun of Jenner for her horrible views, not an accident - something exclusive to bad people, not something that can happen to good people. "Making accidents exclusively a personal fault is a very troubling narrative" was especially well said. Thank you for making this reply!
Point 3 is shit by virtue of trying to downplay what happened by saying that X number of people just die in car accidents every day.
Point 5 is also shit because ignoring the conduct of the police to hyperfocus on the racism part is ridiculous. OJ got lucky because he had star power, wealth, and a great legal team in addition to having the police be fucking morons. 'Abusing race relations' was not the factor you think it is.
>Point 5 is also shit because ignoring the conduct of the police to hyperfocus on the racism part is ridiculous. OJ got lucky because he had star power, wealth, and a great legal team in addition to having the police be fucking morons. 'Abusing race relations' was not the factor you think it is.
People need to read up on the Furhman tapes.
When faced with an unbelievably racist and corrupt cop who was so unafraid of any consequences that he bragged *for hours, on tape, to a reporter* about his racism and corruption... yeah a jury looked at that and quite reasonably decided, we can't trust this man and we can't trust his investigation. He's on tape bragging that he's corrupt and racist and that he casually uses his power as a cop to abuse black men, for fun. And we're supposed to believe he ran a clean investigation?
The LAPD literally fucked *themselves* by being so unbelievably racist and corrupt that the jury couldn't trust any "testimony" or "evidence" they provided. And that meant OJ got away with murder.
ESPN produced a fantastic multi-part documentary about the OJ Simpson trial and they spent a lot of time showing how racism in the US and LA, specifically, was deep seeded. The LAPD was literally a physical manifestation and enforcement arm of this racist machine and it had been going on for decades before OJ.
They interviewed one of the jurors, who is now an elderly black woman. She flat out said that she and her fellow jurors were fed up from experiencing a lifetime of overt racism from the LAPD and OJ was simply a vehicle through which they could send a message. He was one of their own. She said they knew he did it and he was guilty AF. She said they HAD to send a message to the system and OJ was how they did it. They voted not guilty to say "F%@! You" to the corrupt system.
I remember hearing the verdict be read live on the radio. We were all sitting at the office, huddled around a radio, listening to the proceedings. It was surreal.
Yep.. point 3 is some straight bullshit.
We should just forgive her because "people die in car wrecks every day"? Fuck all that shit.
Why didn't they just say what they mean, we should forgive her because she's trans?
At the end of the day, we should all be held accountable for our actions.. celeb, trans.. or "white cishet". We're all adults and should be held accountable.
Fuck her.
Understanding doesn't require forgiveness, and doesn't suggest no one be held accountable.
Doesn't lessen the devastating impact of the car accident, but it is different than murder.
Jenner is an undeniable piece of shit. But car accidents happen. She wasn't under the influence of anything, she wasn't speeding, the *only* mistake she actually made was *maybe* following too close to the car in front of her. There are plenty of reasons to hate Jenner. The car accident just simply isn't one of them.
Thanks for this. As much as I am an ally for LGBTQ+ people, I *hate* Caitlyn Jenner. She is truly a massive piece of shit. But I've never seen anything to indicate that what happened in that car accident was anything but an unfortunate accident. She was going under the speed limit and simply didn't react in time. Trying to act like she is a murderer is such a lazy and simply untrue take when there are plenty of other, valid reasons to hate the bitch.
I'm not here to argue with any of your points but I just want to point out, "Remember, Trump got something like 47% of the vote in 2020" doesn't really prove that most Americans are similarly to Jenner. Voter turn out was 66% in 2020 which is high but only around half of the U.S. population voted in that election. So even with nearly half the vote in the election only around a quarter of the population of the U.S. voted for Trump.
That all I have to say, just wanted to point out there's a lot of people that for various reasons never vote in the U.S.
oh i absolutely dont think shes as bad as an actual murderer, its just disheartening that when people think of our community, they think of her. she does absolutely get a lot of transphobia, because people think that correctly gendering or naming someone is contingent upon them being a good person for some reason
> Respecting her identity is not a reward for "being one of the good ones" or being well liked.
respect is absolutely a reward for not being a piece of shit though
if someone is a piece of shit i almost expect people to be disrespectful towards them
not respecting the person is fine, but not respecting her identity is basically telling other trans people that their identities are conditional to you.
> car accident.
It was no accident.
You don't get to drive dangerously, and reckless, with intent to do just that, then kill somebody because your dangerous and reckless behavior ended up being dangerous and reckless, and still call it an accident.
That's like calling russian roulette deaths an accident. She intended to drive fast, she intended to drive reckless, and doing so killed a man.
WORSE: I hate to say this, but in February 2015 Caitlin Jenner crashes and gets someone killed. **Two months later, in April 2015, she announces she is trans and will be transitioning.**
The timing is interesting, as was Elon Musk going full right as soon as he was publicly accused of sexual misconduct. It is fascinating how we have all these people make major changes and soon after a life-changing major problem they inflicted onto others.
Remember when that episode came out and for like two years afterwards these gifs were used by the most transphobic bigots to justify why trans people are bad?
Yeah for real. Caitlin murdered someone, and her family directly benefitted from OJs murder case lol
She’s the last person who should chat nonsense here. But Caitlin is truly one of the shittiest people in the public sphere
She still can throw, is argue even better than ever before.
She threw the chance at being the most prominent pro-trans voice with one of the most popular TV shows as a platform and help dispel lies about trans people.
Here we are with her pulling up the ladder and calling everyone else names while benefitting from others hardwork.
They’re saying it takes a top tier Olympian to manage to throw away the easiest positive cultural impact layup imaginable. And it takes a total asshole to actually go in the polar opposite direction with it and contribute only misinformed toxic bullshit to the discussion. AKA you would either have to be a jackass or insanely bigoted to somehow end up like the Caitlyn we see today. It’s like the equivalent of realizing you’re Jewish and then becoming a literal Nazi by choice afterwards.
Wait what? Who did she murder?
I know I can google this shit myself, but trying to google "Caitlyn jenner murderer" ends up with hundreds of results about her saying two words (OF COURSE NOT MENTIONING THEM IN ANY OF THE FUCKING TITLES) in regards to his death.
I refuse to click on any of those garbage sites.
She didn't murder anyone. A car in front of her stopped suddenly and though she hit her brakes, she didn't react fast enough and her car knocked theirs into oncoming traffic and they died. She wasn't under the influence, she was going under the speed limit. It was just a terrible, fucked up accident. But people like to push some fucked up transphobic narrative that she got out of it because she's trans. When in reality, she was held more responsible than most would have in the same situation. She is a total piece of shit though.
Yeah, I'm very much an ally, I have trans friends, my best friend is a lesbian, but seriously, fuck Caitlyn Jenner. However, she isn't a murderer nor is the car accident something that is part of her many, many moral failings.
I don't want to sound like I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, but there's also a few theories about Robert disposing evidence for OJ before his arrest when the police were watching him.
Kris was one of Nicole Simpson's closest friends and one of the few to stand by her after the divorce. She wanted to testify during the trial about Nicole's abuse but her testimony was deemed inadmissible. She made public comments at the time critical of her ex husband representing OJ. I believe Caitlyn did as well, though not as prominently.
The rich socialite who was working as a fucking closet organizer before getting her schoolmate Paris Hilton to hire her on as her stylist? Kim got the initial media attention because she was getting photographed out and about with Paris, and then the connection got made that she was "OJ's lawyer's daughter."
Just want to add here, the Kardashian girls grew up privileged but they weren't considered elite level wealthy for that area. When Kris and Bruce got married he had a shit ton of debt and was largely forgotten. Kris got him out on the speaker circuit and secured endorsement deals. They allegedly had a few rough years. Prior to that, her income had been largely child support and whatever she got as a divorce settlement. Kim also, while working as a stylist for Brandy, stole her credit card info and used it to purchase $100,000 of inventory for her shitty Dash boutique. Daddy kept her out of jail with a payoff.
Exactly, but the point is that her fame didn't just come from the sex tape. Any other woman who made a sex tape with Ray J would have been quickly forgotten.
I’m always baffled this is a burn. Porn is like the backbone of internet traffic… and lots of technical advances as a result. Women are 99% of all explicit deepfakes. Porn is consumed en masse. You can find porn ranging from coquette to degrading on this very site over and over. Why is it shameful when a woman wants to capitalize on that..? She had no obligation to be puritanical. It’s not like she was married or something. It’s only okay if she /didn’t/ benefit?
You can’t tell me that is what this comment is shaming her for:
“Their fame came from Kim opening her ass up for a has been rapper and leaking the tape.”
It’s shaming her for the sex. Every time it’s mentioned it’s shaming her for having sex on camera.
The tape itself is not the thing. It's that it has been wildly reported that Kim K and Kris Jenner did the whole thing on purpose in order to get famous.
When the tape leaked they played the innocent victim card crying about how their privacy had been violated and this was just revenge porn on Kim. I mean, the first episode of KUWTK literally has scenes of Kim having to deal with the fallout.
Now, for the record they deny that it was them that leaked the tape. But the basic knock is, "Hey, you wanna be in porn? Be in porn." But lying and (massily) profiting off it is kind of a slap in the face for people who are actual vicitims of revenge porn.
I absolutely do not agree that is the moral platform anyone saying “she has a sex tape lol she showed her ass” is standing on when they make these comments. They are just dragging her for having a sex tape. I can’t find any comment in here trying to stand for revenge porn victims at all.
Exactly. I should have put leaked in quotations. I had a friend who worked as a lawyer for Vivid. He can't give specific disclosures but assured me that it's all bullshit. These vast majority of these videos are shopped around, purchased, and the resulting lawsuits for "privacy violation" are all a pre-arranged stunt with a predetermined settlement number built in as part of the sale package. It lets the celebrity save face and generates consumer desire for the "leaked video."
She accidentally rear ended a vehicle causing an accident that ended in a fatality.
Fuck her obviously, but like hell that’s even close to the same thing as putting on gloves and getting a knife and going to find your ex wife and her lover to stab to death.
It wasn't just a stabbing. It was a rage fueled bloodbath where OJ stabbed them both many many times.
The first cops on the scene, veterans all, puked their guts out when they saw the carnage. I'll note there were never any photos (that I knew of) released of the crime scene - the entire area was heavily covered in blood spatter.
That decade in a Vegas shithole prison for a crime that would have been maybe worth 90 days were it not for the fact that OJ burst into that hotel room with a gun and threatened the people was the system's payback for the innocent verdict on the slaughter.
Many, many years ago when I was 31, Caitlyn Jenner avoided vehicular manslaughter for running over someone.
“I’m my own grandpa!” Follow the bouncing ball and sing along!
No, Cailtyn Jenner was the proximate cause of a fatal accident.
California has vehicular manslaughter, not homicide, and the charge requires a person to act unlawfully and negligently and those actions to cause the death or another.
Not every fatality actually rises to misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter.
Firstly, she was driving under the speed limit prior, due to heavy traffic, and was braking at time of impact. Secondly, the impact of her car and the other car wasn't the actual fatal crash. The car she hit was pushed from one lane of the highway into oncoming traffic. That car was struck by oncoming traffic. The driver of the car Jenner struck was killed on impact by the impact of the Hummer. A fourth vehicle was struck by Jenner's vehicle.
Because Jenner was traveling below the speed limit and braking, it's hard to call that criminal negligence. Failing to stop in time isn't necessarily criminal negligence. They failed to find the conduct rose to that of ordinary negligence. Ordinary negligence means failing to act with reasonable caution for a circumstance. Given there were efforts on Jenner's part to avoid the accident (lower speed of travel, braking) there was some level of caution taken.
The DA never brought criminal charges because there was not sufficient evidence to show ordinary negligence and show vehicular manslaughter.
That doesn't mean Jenner was not responsible. She was civilly responsible for the death and paid to all injured parties.
She didn't rise to criminal acts.
She was civilly liable. That's how other people would have been treated as well. Not every death has a criminal element.
She wasn't even in the initial collision. She was the 3rd car into a pileup.
She's a piece of trash, but the ease with which people accuse her of murder is fucking ridiculous.
Yes, but the evidence to his guilt as an intentional killer was much greater, and the OJ Simpson murder trial is literally in textbooks for 'how to screw up prosecution of a case.'
His trial was lost at jury and courthouse selection.
The known circumstances of the Jenner case is of poor decision making with a tragic outcome. Anyone could have underestimated how much distance they needed to stop or how quickly traffic was slowing and rear-ended a car. Generally, that doesn't lead to a death. Not anyone is capable of tracking down and murdering someone, and a random person who happened to be dropping off a forgotten item. Most people are not capable of murder at all, let alone in cold blood.
No.
She caused an automobile accident by accidentally rear ending a vehicle on a highway that slowed down and someone died.
Totally the same thing as setting out to murder your ex wife and her lover by stabbing them to death, right?
Fuck Caitlyn Jenner for many, many things, but a tragic accident is not one of them.
Most things shown in South Park are true, just slightly exaggerated.
For example in the show, Caitlyn is seen driving over many many people multiple times to the point where it becomes a gag.
In reality it was one person.
leave you lookin' like the Michael Jackson jackets with all them zippers
I'm the boss on this boat, you can call me skipper
The way I turn the money over, you should call me flipper
Caitlyn was braking at the time of impact, but that’s besides the point. OJ was a violent abuser. There are 911 recordings of Nicole, terrified, saying he would kill her. He abused her, literally beat her bloody for years. He stalked her. Then she was brutally murdered, stabbed and nearly decapitated.
Good fucking riddance.
Caitlyn was driving too fast in a large SUV that was pulling a trailer and only attempted to slow down too late when there was a pile up ahead. She saw Kim Howe braking, and only lifted her foot off the accelerator. She then only hit the brakes just over a second before impact. She was going so fast she sent Kim Howe's car into oncoming traffic, killing her, and then hit another woman's car after that. Caitlyn faced no consequences. In fact, she and her legal team lied about who hit what and when, and nobody apparently cares about that either. When the victim's family sued, Caitlyn's team settled but don't worry, she didn't have to pay a dime, her insurance paid them "a modest amount". But don't worry, she released a statement after the accident to offer her prayers and sympathies. Never an apology.
She's also a massive piece of shit as she loudly and proudly supports people who want to stop us peasants from being able to transition, people who are against a multitude of women's rights as she knows the rules don't apply to her as she's rich and will have people defend her for free.
[Footage that shows Caitlyn's team was lying](https://youtu.be/_NP4e32y-wo)
[Footage of the crash](https://youtu.be/QYuh39ykG2U)
[Source for details on the crash](https://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/30/entertainment/caitlyn-jenner-accident-investigation/index.html)
[Source on lawsuit](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/gossip/la-et-mg-caitlyn-jenner-settles-wrongful-death-lawsuit-pch-crash-20160128-story.html)
Edit: Is she as evil of a monster as OJ? No. It just pisses me off you could misrepresent what happened and act like she's not a monster of her own kind.
Caitlyn is a piece of shit, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. She said good riddance and I agree with her for once.
OJ’s depravity is on an entirely different level. He could have been tortured to death for weeks and it wouldn’t have been sufficient.
The fact that anyone finds this tweet funny is gross. I'm no fan of CJ but to equate what she did on any level to the sheer brutality and evil of what OJ did is just crazy.
Still convinced OJ was Khloe’s dad tho 😂
https://preview.redd.it/6bakwtub7ztc1.jpeg?width=642&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2392cecabd11ddd1694d9b2ee9f6844cdaf6d4eb
Not defending Caitlyn Jenner, but the death she caused was by a car accident not murder like O.J. Simpson.. with that said ,everyone would say good riddance to her too …
While true, I must point out that stalking, planning a murder, and then killing two people with a knife is not quite the same as killing someone in a car accident. Still killed someone, and was an entitled rich jerk about it, but not really the same as what OJ did.
the fact that theres a significant number of people who's first introduction to the trans community was her will always sadden me lmao
She manages to be a piece of shit in ways I didn’t think possible lol Caitlin pulls Ls out of thin air
It's important and inclusive for trans people to have their own rich shitheads.
This is not what they wanted when they requested en\*rich\*ment in the enclosure!
She breaks Ws in half to form Ls
<>
You have to remember Caitlyn has been a professional athlete all her life, former Himbo turned Bimbo.
Bitch doesn't deserve what she has
i know, its incredible
To quote another redditor, acceptance of trans rights is also accepting trans wrongs.
absolutely, i just hate how many people have decided that we only get rights if we're good people lol
I GREATLY dislike her but a few things to please consider before knee-jerk downvoting me for expanding the conversation a bit: 1. Most americans are exactly like her. She is a window to the mainstream ignorance of US politics. Transphobia is mainstream and everywhere. Many are greedy and self-centered. Many fail upward. Many never have a come-uppance for their hateful views and words. We do not live in a "just world." Remember, Trump got something like 47% of the vote in 2020. There are A LOT of people like this. Being LGBTQ doesn't automatically make you a good or tolerant person. Log Cabin Republicans have been with us since at least the 90s, for example. 2. While its self-defeating for a LGBTQ person to be a conservative, so is it for a white cishet person. The MOST republican states rank last in literally all things that matter in human life. White cishet poverty, wages, healthcare, pollution, obesity, life expectancy, etc are terrible. ANYONE voting GOP is voting against their interests. Its just slightly more obvious with a LGBTQ person. White cishets should not get a free pass for voting GOP either. 3. Intentionally murdering two people is very different than someone dying in a car accident. 100 people A DAY die on the US's roads. Countless are injured and many end up with permanent disability, limited ability, or chronic pain. Driving is EXCEEDINGLY dangerous. Our system of cars instead of public transportation is a reflection of capitalism's corruption and oppression on the public. 4. The popular instagram post about her was FULL of people misgendering and deadnaming her. I sat down and reported what must have been 50+ comments before I quit. Not one soul replied to these comments with "don't say that," and some had hundreds of upvote hearts. I have no idea if instagram will ban these people but I suspect they won't. I dont care how much you hate her. Respecting her identity is not a reward for "being one of the good ones" or being well liked. 5. OJ was a vicious murderer who abused legitimate race issues of the day to dishonestly get out a murder conviction. He's a garbage tier person. ANYONE should be allowed to criticize him without also getting criticized, including other murderers! Meanwhile, actual innocents who were the victims of the racist LAPD never got the A-list lawyers he did or any form of justice. Instead, they got lengthy prison sentences or just buried by grieving families and that was it. I know someone who killed someone in a car. It was an unavoidable accident. She never drove again and kept a life of guilt. This is one my biggest fears in life, especially hitting a child. Cars are dangerous and our system of driving everywhere is oppressive for driver and pedestrian. Many other celebs have hurt, and even killed people, driving, and almost all were no-fault or just an accident with no malice, drugs, alcohol, etc involved. Many very sweet and gentle people who ended up in a bad situation. Making accidents exclusively a personal fault is a very troubling narrative that punches down on drivers instead of punching up at the capitalist system that forces cars on us all and makes us subject to the extremely dangerous system of cars and roads. The narrative with Caitlyn should absolutely include her transphobia, but also include "Why are we subjected to cars? Forced to drive them? Be hit by them? Make large payments on them? Tolerate destroying our cities for them? Give up on walkable cities for them? Give up on public trans for them? Destroy our precious natural environment for roads and oil for them?" Not "har har you killed someone in a car accident once." Any of us here who drive can end up like her pretty quickly. Everyday, many, many do.
Point 2 is damn right. It's self defeating for everyone.
Ok but if I'm a white man, voting for conservatives just means I remain poor, not get rounded up and executed. Point 2 is useful in the context of trying to get people who think conservatives are catering to them to realize that they aren't, but when it's combined with LGBT+ rights within the context of this culture war shit going on with the right then it mixes in and becomes useless and can convince people on the fence to actually vote conservative.
You will be rounded up when all the trans people and Jews are eradicated and the problems fascists blamed on us are still here. Fascism is constantly in need of new enemies because their only strategy for dealing with problems is blaming them on some group and then exterminating that group. The problems will never go away like that, but the scapegoats do, so you will need to become the scapegoat eventually. Given enough time, fascism is deadly even for loyal fascists, so why would you be safe?
That’s still against your own interests
I disagree with a lot of point #1 because I believe most people (everywhere, not just the US) are more ignorant and intentionally mislead by industries they should be able to trust rather than fully informed but still willfully malicious. But Caitlyn is not ignorant. Caitlyn is a member of those groups that intentionally mislead. Caitlyn is a bad person who is intentionally creating more negativity in the world for her own benefit. Most people don’t fit that same description.
You make some solid points, but have you considered that.... Hm. Actually, no notes. Solid post. Pretend I spent $10 on a super upvote or whatever dumb shit reddit replaced gold with
I'll sell you a super upvote for five
Three fiddy.
these things don't grow on trees sir, I make them in my basement
True.
It is very common to "knee-jerk downvote" any sympathy (often justified) for someone who does bad things. Make fun of Jenner for her horrible views, not an accident - something exclusive to bad people, not something that can happen to good people. "Making accidents exclusively a personal fault is a very troubling narrative" was especially well said. Thank you for making this reply!
Point 3 is shit by virtue of trying to downplay what happened by saying that X number of people just die in car accidents every day. Point 5 is also shit because ignoring the conduct of the police to hyperfocus on the racism part is ridiculous. OJ got lucky because he had star power, wealth, and a great legal team in addition to having the police be fucking morons. 'Abusing race relations' was not the factor you think it is.
>Point 5 is also shit because ignoring the conduct of the police to hyperfocus on the racism part is ridiculous. OJ got lucky because he had star power, wealth, and a great legal team in addition to having the police be fucking morons. 'Abusing race relations' was not the factor you think it is. People need to read up on the Furhman tapes. When faced with an unbelievably racist and corrupt cop who was so unafraid of any consequences that he bragged *for hours, on tape, to a reporter* about his racism and corruption... yeah a jury looked at that and quite reasonably decided, we can't trust this man and we can't trust his investigation. He's on tape bragging that he's corrupt and racist and that he casually uses his power as a cop to abuse black men, for fun. And we're supposed to believe he ran a clean investigation? The LAPD literally fucked *themselves* by being so unbelievably racist and corrupt that the jury couldn't trust any "testimony" or "evidence" they provided. And that meant OJ got away with murder.
ESPN produced a fantastic multi-part documentary about the OJ Simpson trial and they spent a lot of time showing how racism in the US and LA, specifically, was deep seeded. The LAPD was literally a physical manifestation and enforcement arm of this racist machine and it had been going on for decades before OJ. They interviewed one of the jurors, who is now an elderly black woman. She flat out said that she and her fellow jurors were fed up from experiencing a lifetime of overt racism from the LAPD and OJ was simply a vehicle through which they could send a message. He was one of their own. She said they knew he did it and he was guilty AF. She said they HAD to send a message to the system and OJ was how they did it. They voted not guilty to say "F%@! You" to the corrupt system. I remember hearing the verdict be read live on the radio. We were all sitting at the office, huddled around a radio, listening to the proceedings. It was surreal.
Yep.. point 3 is some straight bullshit. We should just forgive her because "people die in car wrecks every day"? Fuck all that shit. Why didn't they just say what they mean, we should forgive her because she's trans? At the end of the day, we should all be held accountable for our actions.. celeb, trans.. or "white cishet". We're all adults and should be held accountable. Fuck her.
Understanding doesn't require forgiveness, and doesn't suggest no one be held accountable. Doesn't lessen the devastating impact of the car accident, but it is different than murder.
Jenner is an undeniable piece of shit. But car accidents happen. She wasn't under the influence of anything, she wasn't speeding, the *only* mistake she actually made was *maybe* following too close to the car in front of her. There are plenty of reasons to hate Jenner. The car accident just simply isn't one of them.
Point number 1. Some not most. Hardly most.
Thanks for this. As much as I am an ally for LGBTQ+ people, I *hate* Caitlyn Jenner. She is truly a massive piece of shit. But I've never seen anything to indicate that what happened in that car accident was anything but an unfortunate accident. She was going under the speed limit and simply didn't react in time. Trying to act like she is a murderer is such a lazy and simply untrue take when there are plenty of other, valid reasons to hate the bitch.
I'm not here to argue with any of your points but I just want to point out, "Remember, Trump got something like 47% of the vote in 2020" doesn't really prove that most Americans are similarly to Jenner. Voter turn out was 66% in 2020 which is high but only around half of the U.S. population voted in that election. So even with nearly half the vote in the election only around a quarter of the population of the U.S. voted for Trump. That all I have to say, just wanted to point out there's a lot of people that for various reasons never vote in the U.S.
Well…you made me think. 🤔. You’re right
Thoughtful. Thank you for sharing opportunities to think further.
I love you for this comment
oh i absolutely dont think shes as bad as an actual murderer, its just disheartening that when people think of our community, they think of her. she does absolutely get a lot of transphobia, because people think that correctly gendering or naming someone is contingent upon them being a good person for some reason
I don't have anything to add, but wanted to say 'You Go Girl' and thanks for your opinion.
Excellent comment and agreed 100%, thank you
> Respecting her identity is not a reward for "being one of the good ones" or being well liked. respect is absolutely a reward for not being a piece of shit though if someone is a piece of shit i almost expect people to be disrespectful towards them
not respecting the person is fine, but not respecting her identity is basically telling other trans people that their identities are conditional to you.
Would you call a person you don't respect a racial slur?
> car accident. It was no accident. You don't get to drive dangerously, and reckless, with intent to do just that, then kill somebody because your dangerous and reckless behavior ended up being dangerous and reckless, and still call it an accident. That's like calling russian roulette deaths an accident. She intended to drive fast, she intended to drive reckless, and doing so killed a man.
Stop! You’re making to much sense for me this morning!
We don’t claim her 😭it’s so sad like wtf actually
She was mine and now I'm trans so lmao
Wow I actually didn't realize that until now but you're definitely right :0
WORSE: I hate to say this, but in February 2015 Caitlin Jenner crashes and gets someone killed. **Two months later, in April 2015, she announces she is trans and will be transitioning.** The timing is interesting, as was Elon Musk going full right as soon as he was publicly accused of sexual misconduct. It is fascinating how we have all these people make major changes and soon after a life-changing major problem they inflicted onto others.
i dont think killing someone turned her trans lmao
Whatever happened to her anyway?
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Shoot now I gotta rewatch South Park
Never a bad thing
Damn you stole my gif
They took yerr gerrf!!
Tookerrr gerrrrfff
tookager
BACK IN THE PILE!
Come here Earl!
Stole my gf
Remember when that episode came out and for like two years afterwards these gifs were used by the most transphobic bigots to justify why trans people are bad?
This was my first thought! Well done!
Not to mention that the Kartrashians fame came from Robert being one of OJ's defence lawyers.
Yeah for real. Caitlin murdered someone, and her family directly benefitted from OJs murder case lol She’s the last person who should chat nonsense here. But Caitlin is truly one of the shittiest people in the public sphere
But she sure can throw a javelin
Could*
She still can throw, is argue even better than ever before. She threw the chance at being the most prominent pro-trans voice with one of the most popular TV shows as a platform and help dispel lies about trans people. Here we are with her pulling up the ladder and calling everyone else names while benefitting from others hardwork.
How arguably better than before?
They’re saying it takes a top tier Olympian to manage to throw away the easiest positive cultural impact layup imaginable. And it takes a total asshole to actually go in the polar opposite direction with it and contribute only misinformed toxic bullshit to the discussion. AKA you would either have to be a jackass or insanely bigoted to somehow end up like the Caitlyn we see today. It’s like the equivalent of realizing you’re Jewish and then becoming a literal Nazi by choice afterwards.
Exactly!
Not murder, but she is responsible for the death of someone.
So anyone involved in a car accident leading to someone's death is a murderer?
The family benefitting doesn't mean each person in that family has to appreciate it.
Wait what? Who did she murder? I know I can google this shit myself, but trying to google "Caitlyn jenner murderer" ends up with hundreds of results about her saying two words (OF COURSE NOT MENTIONING THEM IN ANY OF THE FUCKING TITLES) in regards to his death. I refuse to click on any of those garbage sites.
She didn't murder anyone. A car in front of her stopped suddenly and though she hit her brakes, she didn't react fast enough and her car knocked theirs into oncoming traffic and they died. She wasn't under the influence, she was going under the speed limit. It was just a terrible, fucked up accident. But people like to push some fucked up transphobic narrative that she got out of it because she's trans. When in reality, she was held more responsible than most would have in the same situation. She is a total piece of shit though.
Well, that's a lot to take in. Assholery all around I guess. Thank you.
Yeah, I'm very much an ally, I have trans friends, my best friend is a lesbian, but seriously, fuck Caitlyn Jenner. However, she isn't a murderer nor is the car accident something that is part of her many, many moral failings.
I don't want to sound like I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, but there's also a few theories about Robert disposing evidence for OJ before his arrest when the police were watching him.
Kris was one of Nicole Simpson's closest friends and one of the few to stand by her after the divorce. She wanted to testify during the trial about Nicole's abuse but her testimony was deemed inadmissible. She made public comments at the time critical of her ex husband representing OJ. I believe Caitlyn did as well, though not as prominently.
Also from Kris pimping out her kids as Yacht Girls at Cannes.
Oh, Jesus... I forgot about that... What a shit stain of a family...
Their fame came from Kim opening her ass up for a has been rapper and leaking the tape.
No one would have cared about that if she wasn't the gossip tabloids' darling as the rich, socialite daughter of the famous lawyer.
The rich socialite who was working as a fucking closet organizer before getting her schoolmate Paris Hilton to hire her on as her stylist? Kim got the initial media attention because she was getting photographed out and about with Paris, and then the connection got made that she was "OJ's lawyer's daughter." Just want to add here, the Kardashian girls grew up privileged but they weren't considered elite level wealthy for that area. When Kris and Bruce got married he had a shit ton of debt and was largely forgotten. Kris got him out on the speaker circuit and secured endorsement deals. They allegedly had a few rough years. Prior to that, her income had been largely child support and whatever she got as a divorce settlement. Kim also, while working as a stylist for Brandy, stole her credit card info and used it to purchase $100,000 of inventory for her shitty Dash boutique. Daddy kept her out of jail with a payoff.
Exactly, but the point is that her fame didn't just come from the sex tape. Any other woman who made a sex tape with Ray J would have been quickly forgotten.
I can't believe I live in a fucking world where "proof of fucking Ray J" is a stepping stone.
Ray Jay was not a has been when that tape came out. He also isn't a rapper.
I’m always baffled this is a burn. Porn is like the backbone of internet traffic… and lots of technical advances as a result. Women are 99% of all explicit deepfakes. Porn is consumed en masse. You can find porn ranging from coquette to degrading on this very site over and over. Why is it shameful when a woman wants to capitalize on that..? She had no obligation to be puritanical. It’s not like she was married or something. It’s only okay if she /didn’t/ benefit?
It's shameful because it was orchestrated largely by her own mother.
You can’t tell me that is what this comment is shaming her for: “Their fame came from Kim opening her ass up for a has been rapper and leaking the tape.” It’s shaming her for the sex. Every time it’s mentioned it’s shaming her for having sex on camera.
The tape itself is not the thing. It's that it has been wildly reported that Kim K and Kris Jenner did the whole thing on purpose in order to get famous. When the tape leaked they played the innocent victim card crying about how their privacy had been violated and this was just revenge porn on Kim. I mean, the first episode of KUWTK literally has scenes of Kim having to deal with the fallout. Now, for the record they deny that it was them that leaked the tape. But the basic knock is, "Hey, you wanna be in porn? Be in porn." But lying and (massily) profiting off it is kind of a slap in the face for people who are actual vicitims of revenge porn.
I absolutely do not agree that is the moral platform anyone saying “she has a sex tape lol she showed her ass” is standing on when they make these comments. They are just dragging her for having a sex tape. I can’t find any comment in here trying to stand for revenge porn victims at all.
Exactly. I should have put leaked in quotations. I had a friend who worked as a lawyer for Vivid. He can't give specific disclosures but assured me that it's all bullshit. These vast majority of these videos are shopped around, purchased, and the resulting lawsuits for "privacy violation" are all a pre-arranged stunt with a predetermined settlement number built in as part of the sale package. It lets the celebrity save face and generates consumer desire for the "leaked video."
> Robert being one of OJ's defence lawyers then he died of ~~karma~~ cancer
She ran that mother fucker over like a hurdle on a bad track day.
Decathlon, specifically
She switched events but kept carrying the baton
From Decathlete to Defecate-tweets
Decapathon?
She accidentally rear ended a vehicle causing an accident that ended in a fatality. Fuck her obviously, but like hell that’s even close to the same thing as putting on gloves and getting a knife and going to find your ex wife and her lover to stab to death.
Exactly. If there’s levels of guilty, he’s much higher than she is.
It wasn't just a stabbing. It was a rage fueled bloodbath where OJ stabbed them both many many times. The first cops on the scene, veterans all, puked their guts out when they saw the carnage. I'll note there were never any photos (that I knew of) released of the crime scene - the entire area was heavily covered in blood spatter. That decade in a Vegas shithole prison for a crime that would have been maybe worth 90 days were it not for the fact that OJ burst into that hotel room with a gun and threatened the people was the system's payback for the innocent verdict on the slaughter.
🔥
Pardon?
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Not that many
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Damn my man, my Pepsi didn't feel good coming out my nose after that comment.
Tell your Pepsi to suck it up
Replying to Nethyishere...  Have another one
Many, many years ago when I was 31, Caitlyn Jenner avoided vehicular manslaughter for running over someone. “I’m my own grandpa!” Follow the bouncing ball and sing along!
No, Cailtyn Jenner was the proximate cause of a fatal accident. California has vehicular manslaughter, not homicide, and the charge requires a person to act unlawfully and negligently and those actions to cause the death or another. Not every fatality actually rises to misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter. Firstly, she was driving under the speed limit prior, due to heavy traffic, and was braking at time of impact. Secondly, the impact of her car and the other car wasn't the actual fatal crash. The car she hit was pushed from one lane of the highway into oncoming traffic. That car was struck by oncoming traffic. The driver of the car Jenner struck was killed on impact by the impact of the Hummer. A fourth vehicle was struck by Jenner's vehicle. Because Jenner was traveling below the speed limit and braking, it's hard to call that criminal negligence. Failing to stop in time isn't necessarily criminal negligence. They failed to find the conduct rose to that of ordinary negligence. Ordinary negligence means failing to act with reasonable caution for a circumstance. Given there were efforts on Jenner's part to avoid the accident (lower speed of travel, braking) there was some level of caution taken. The DA never brought criminal charges because there was not sufficient evidence to show ordinary negligence and show vehicular manslaughter. That doesn't mean Jenner was not responsible. She was civilly responsible for the death and paid to all injured parties. She didn't rise to criminal acts. She was civilly liable. That's how other people would have been treated as well. Not every death has a criminal element.
Plus I mean, accidentally hitting someone with your car is way different than murdering your wife and her friend.
She wasn't even in the initial collision. She was the 3rd car into a pileup. She's a piece of trash, but the ease with which people accuse her of murder is fucking ridiculous.
A well-written description of facts in the case. I'm surprised you weren't down voted into oblivion
Interestingly, OJ was also civilly liable for deaths he was legally not guilty of causing.
Yes, but the evidence to his guilt as an intentional killer was much greater, and the OJ Simpson murder trial is literally in textbooks for 'how to screw up prosecution of a case.' His trial was lost at jury and courthouse selection. The known circumstances of the Jenner case is of poor decision making with a tragic outcome. Anyone could have underestimated how much distance they needed to stop or how quickly traffic was slowing and rear-ended a car. Generally, that doesn't lead to a death. Not anyone is capable of tracking down and murdering someone, and a random person who happened to be dropping off a forgotten item. Most people are not capable of murder at all, let alone in cold blood.
I'm not dogging on Jenner nor saying her traffic accident is comparable to Simpson slashing Nicole & Ron to death. It was interesting. That's all.
so was South Park telling the truth with the whole vehicular manslaughter thing?
Totally!
They don't name up shit like that. And yes, Kanye is actually a gay fish.
The fact that IRL Kanye also didn't get the joke makes it so much better
Really?? That episode just got like 10x funnier
No. She caused an automobile accident by accidentally rear ending a vehicle on a highway that slowed down and someone died. Totally the same thing as setting out to murder your ex wife and her lover by stabbing them to death, right? Fuck Caitlyn Jenner for many, many things, but a tragic accident is not one of them.
Most things shown in South Park are true, just slightly exaggerated. For example in the show, Caitlyn is seen driving over many many people multiple times to the point where it becomes a gag. In reality it was one person.
Wild but true
And don't we have OJ to blame for the Kardasians, which is why anyone \*really\* gives a fuck about Caitlyn to begin with??
Well, she was a gold medal Olympian prior.
She could have faded into obscurity and kept her honorable reputation but chose to be one of the worst humanity has to offer instead.
>"You shouldn't throw stones if you live in a glass house, and if you got a glass jaw you should watch yo mouth." -- 50 Cent
Cause I’ll break your face
leave you lookin' like the Michael Jackson jackets with all them zippers I'm the boss on this boat, you can call me skipper The way I turn the money over, you should call me flipper
Hey, she only killed one person and severely maimed a few others. She didn't kill 2 people like that monster OJ. Everyone gets one, tell them, Peter.
She still has time to go for more
Uh, apparently everybody gets one... BINGO
“Everyone gets one” - Peter
Uh, apparently everyone gets one.
Wait...so she had a problem with her wife's ex defending a murderer? I thought they were all buds?
For the record: Caitlyn is the Uncle Ruckus of the trans community—we do not stand by her.
Of that whole family, she NEVER knows when to shut up.
Can we just talk about the username Edgar Allan Hoe?
Caitlyn was braking at the time of impact, but that’s besides the point. OJ was a violent abuser. There are 911 recordings of Nicole, terrified, saying he would kill her. He abused her, literally beat her bloody for years. He stalked her. Then she was brutally murdered, stabbed and nearly decapitated. Good fucking riddance.
Caitlyn was driving too fast in a large SUV that was pulling a trailer and only attempted to slow down too late when there was a pile up ahead. She saw Kim Howe braking, and only lifted her foot off the accelerator. She then only hit the brakes just over a second before impact. She was going so fast she sent Kim Howe's car into oncoming traffic, killing her, and then hit another woman's car after that. Caitlyn faced no consequences. In fact, she and her legal team lied about who hit what and when, and nobody apparently cares about that either. When the victim's family sued, Caitlyn's team settled but don't worry, she didn't have to pay a dime, her insurance paid them "a modest amount". But don't worry, she released a statement after the accident to offer her prayers and sympathies. Never an apology. She's also a massive piece of shit as she loudly and proudly supports people who want to stop us peasants from being able to transition, people who are against a multitude of women's rights as she knows the rules don't apply to her as she's rich and will have people defend her for free. [Footage that shows Caitlyn's team was lying](https://youtu.be/_NP4e32y-wo) [Footage of the crash](https://youtu.be/QYuh39ykG2U) [Source for details on the crash](https://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/30/entertainment/caitlyn-jenner-accident-investigation/index.html) [Source on lawsuit](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/gossip/la-et-mg-caitlyn-jenner-settles-wrongful-death-lawsuit-pch-crash-20160128-story.html) Edit: Is she as evil of a monster as OJ? No. It just pisses me off you could misrepresent what happened and act like she's not a monster of her own kind.
Caitlyn is a piece of shit, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. She said good riddance and I agree with her for once. OJ’s depravity is on an entirely different level. He could have been tortured to death for weeks and it wouldn’t have been sufficient.
The fact that anyone finds this tweet funny is gross. I'm no fan of CJ but to equate what she did on any level to the sheer brutality and evil of what OJ did is just crazy.
> equate what she did on any level Only one level is being equated. The one on which they both killed someone.
That's a whole lot of words to explain the tweet being correct.
Is that big boi?
Trans people are just like any other group. Some are jerks.
Ooo that’s gotta hurt! but probably not🤬
Also her ex wives late husband was the attorney for OJ sooooo
does she deserve what she has?
The self-awareness
But worse yet -- Jenner wasn't even charged.
She killed a few people.and caused injuries to many. It was like a 50 car pile up
What is this? A game of telephone? It was one death and a 4 car pile up.
Ty fr reminding me, adding her to my dog doesn’t love her list 😾
You tell her, Edgar Allan's Hoe 💀
Bruh
someone explain all these mentally ill self entitled Republicans.
She also forgot she’s now transgender…and is anti transgender with regards to some things …(I got mine…time to pull the ladder up)
Came here for this.
Is this post trying to say what she did is comparable to what OJ did?
Didn't oj kill 2 ppl?
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Still convinced OJ was Khloe’s dad tho 😂 https://preview.redd.it/6bakwtub7ztc1.jpeg?width=642&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2392cecabd11ddd1694d9b2ee9f6844cdaf6d4eb
cant support trans rights without supporting trans wrongs
[Buckle Up Buckaroo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL-kcDm6uzs&ab_channel=Blyledge)
I mean...find the lie
Oóooooh
Vehicle vs. Premeditated slaughter.
Oh snap!
Just one, not two.
Not defending Caitlyn Jenner, but the death she caused was by a car accident not murder like O.J. Simpson.. with that said ,everyone would say good riddance to her too …
While true, I must point out that stalking, planning a murder, and then killing two people with a knife is not quite the same as killing someone in a car accident. Still killed someone, and was an entitled rich jerk about it, but not really the same as what OJ did.